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Friday, April 25, 2008
Brent Bozell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama And The Hip-Hop Problem
by Brent Bozell
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Young black activists roared their approval when Barack Obama recently greeted criticism on the trail by dusting off his shoulders, a reference to a rap song by Jay-Z called "Dirt Off Your Shoulder." The media covering the moment went crazy, too. Washington Post reporter Teresa Wiltz hailed Obama's moves and called it a "seminal moment in the campaign, the merging of politics and pop culture," and noted the lyrics suggest, "If you feelin' like a pimp ... go and brush your shoulders off."

So Barack Obama is feeling like a pimp?

Online at "The Root," a Washington Post website for African-Americans, Obama supporter and Princeton professor Melissa Harris-Lacewell was sky-high. "Like every other hip-hop generation voter in America I went crazy when he did it," she wrote. "I almost couldn't believe it. It was a perfect moment."

Harris-Lacewell read that moment as a sign of racial swagger and solidarity with "his base of young urban brown and black voters," and they loved it. "He displayed all the familiar self-assurance and bravado of the hip-hop emcee. The people who got it went nuts, while those who don't know hip-hop just thought he was being funny and confident."

The video went viral and became a YouTube sensation.

What is it about this music that drove Obama to emulate it, and drove the Princeton professor crazy in the process? This Jay-Z song boasts about a "middle finger to the law." Harris-Lacewell touted that Obama would like the song "99 Problems," which has an entire verse about being racially profiled by the "mother f---ing law" for "doing 55 in a 54." Jay-Z also tells critics to kiss his whole (rectum).

Sen. Obama claims to be a fan of Jay-Z and Kanye West, but he knows that he has to distance himself a little from the lyrical lows of this "art." He's been gently critical in interviews. "I love the art of hip hop. I don't always love the message of hip hop," he said. Even with the rappers he loves, "There's a message that is not only sometimes degrading to women; not only uses the N-word a little too frequently; but also something I'm really concerned about, it's always talking about material things."

"A little too frequently?" This is like saying a tsunami's a little too wet.

Obama should take a look at a new report from the Parents Television Council about three popular rap-music programs that air in the afternoon or early evening -- "Sucker Free" on MTV and "Rap City" and "106 & Park" on Black Entertainment Television for two weeks in December and a week in March.

In 41 and a half hours studied, analysts found 282 uses of the N-word. Is that "a little too frequently," too?

A little too much degrading of women? In those same hours, there were 143 uses of the B-word to describe women.

A little too much focus on material things? Here, Obama is gliding by the question of what material things are acquired. The rap shows included 205 depictions or discussions of drug sale or use and other illegal activity during the study period, for an average of 7.5 instances per hour, or roughly one instance every eight minutes.

Obama did not discuss the heavily sexualized world of rap in his answer. Sexually explicit scenes or lyrical references on these shows appeared 27 times an hour in December and 40 times an hour in March. No one could miss that drumbeat.

In just one week of programming -- 14 hours in March -- PTC analysts found 1,342 instances of offensive/adult content, or 95.8 instances per hour, or one instance of adult content every 38 seconds.

Who is being influenced by these messages? During the two-week December 2007 study period, children under 18 made up roughly 40 percent of the audience for these three BET and MTV rap programs. Because all of these programs re-air throughout the day, study results underestimate the percentage of unique children who are exposed to this flood of sexually explicit and violent and crime-glamorizing rapper swagger.

A year ago, Obama made an obvious point when he said Don Imus was fired by NBC for using degrading words that are all over rap radio, but rap mogul Russell Simmons cried foul: "What we need to reform is the conditions that create these lyrics. Obama needs to reform the conditions of poverty."

That is, of course, ludicrous. Poverty doesn't "cause" violent gangsta rap any more than road rage is caused by Toyota. These messages are vile and contemptible, and black leaders like former Gov. Doug Wilder and Bill Cosby are true heroes for saying so, while suffering the inevitable blowback.

And Barack Obama is dusting off his shoulders to the applause of the crowd.

Food for thought.

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About The Author
Founder and President of the Media Research Center, Brent Bozell runs the largest media watchdog organization in America.
 
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What The...?
Since when did the word "p-mp" become an unacceptable word to post on the comment boards? You wrote it a couple of times in this column! I mean, the hypocricy is so thick, it could made into a racial epithet.

(I was going for something other than the cliche "so thick, you could cut it with a knife")

word censorship
Don't worry about it Sticks, there are a lot of words that will be censored from us mere peons, that the columnist will be allowed.

Even though it can be downright hilarious sometimes, depending on the last change the programmers made.

A while back, you couldn't say "computation" because of the embedded text "p u t a" which is Spanish for "whore". Go figure.

(It still won't let me enter the word by itself, but at least I can say "computation" now!)

Recently, I tried to enter H e 1 1, where as you might be able to see, there are digit one's instead of letter el's. It complained! But, it *did* let me enter "hell", spelled correctly! Go figure!

So -- just grin and bear it!

So...........?
Do you guys think the dust off and Barack's penchant for hip hop and BET will cause some dust up in the general election among us fuddy/duddies who actually do vote?

No Inner City Thug in the Whitehouse
If by now americans are still wondering who has influenced Baraks life, the list is long and unimpressive. He can dust off his shoulders all he wants, and the rap monguls can give him all the millions he needs to try and buy the presidency but at the end of the day - THE PRESIDENCY IS NOT A PAID INTERNSHIP FOR AN INNER CITY CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY WHO LACKS ANY CREDIBLE QUALIFICATION. Hollar back Barak!

In Pittsburgh
Where I grew up, my Dad's side of the family (10 brothers and 4 sisters)could break any Rappers record of 95.8 instances of profanities per hour.

Just gather up 50 German/Irish... add Iron City beer and stir.

Like it or not, Rap is here to stay. There are way to many white teenagers that love it. It's all about supply and demand.

Don't worry though, nothing lasts forever. Fads change and who knows what tomorrow brings. The world survived Elvis's pelvis, Michael Jackson's crotch, Madonna's cross, and it will endure Jay- Z's middle finger.


Sorry Sarah
Obama is no more an inner city thug than George Bush is a cowboy.

They just know their audience.

matthew
A truthful post. The sad part is that you chronical a race to the bottom of human existence. There is little in pop culture in the last half century which strives for excellence in talent or lasting creativity.

Go to youtube and contrast Sammy Davis jr. with Michael Jackson, both "poor black children" raised in a musical family. Sammy did not find it a needed part of his presentaion to grab his crotch, amazing! sarc./off Which one displayed lasting talent?

Make of that what you will.

FOWG
Like it or not, Michael Jackson (little boys and all) will be remembered for centuries to come.


john pearson
Mos Def is AMAZING!!!

Your daughter has great taste. You should be proud.

And YES, Bill seems much more the playa than Obama could ever be. Hi-larious.

Another on a long list
of reasons that Obama is unfit for the office of president. What a fine role model for young blacks! Supporting a disgusting form of entertainment that glorifies drugs, violence, and the objectification of females. And speaking of drugs, Obama is a current user of the number one killer of all drugs, which is tobacco. A thousand deaths a day, in this country alone, are attributable to tobacco use, and this fool smokes daily. He makes sure there are no cameras around when he lights up. Wouldn't want too many people knowing the truth, would we now? Again, what a fine role model for young blacks, who are at greater risk than any other group to be lured into a lifelong addiction to this
disease-causing weed. I recently overheard a young smoker complaining about rising prices and the difficulty of making ends meet. I wanted to ask him if another $100 a month would help. That's about what a pack-a-day smoker pays these days.

While Not Wishing To Become...
...embroiled in a debate on the merits or lack thereof of hip hop I'm sure Obama looked a lot cooler than your current President did dancing to that jazz band. Another great laugh he has provided us on the other side of the pond. You must all be very proud!!!!

A pattern is emerging
So that's what the shoulder brush-off was about. Nothing like a candidate injecting a bit of gangland chic into a presidential campaign, yo bro?

Obama continues to demonstrate a peculiar affinity for some of the worst aspects of American life, whether it's racist pastors, America-hating terrorists, Chicago crooks -- or now, hip-hop's gutter sub-culture. (That would explain his opposition to tough laws against gang murders, I suppose). You can't help but wonder if he joins Michelle and the girls, singing the x-rated lyrics of their favorite rap songs together. (In defense, they could always say it's not as bad as what Pastor Wright says in church every Sabbath).

Each new revelation exposes yet another unsavory insight into this guy's character. We're learning weekly about the people he esteems, the causes he supports, and the cultural milieu he values. None of it raises confidence. And we still have six months to go.

Pimpin' Obama
Gotta love that Hopping culture. Thugs, pimps, and ho's. Oh yeah, just the kind of thing for a future president to be associated with. But WAIT. STOP THAT! How dare you say something that might suggest the Hip Hop culture has issues. Racist, bigot -- censor that pen.

Hip Hop gestures
Barack obama is NOT FIT TO BE PRESIDENT.

There has been much debate about him flipping Hillary the finger. HE did it, not once but twice. He is a disgusting excuse for a candidate.

Keep on supporting him DNC and superdelegates - you are looking real cool!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow!
Brent Bozell writing about Jay Z!!! LOL! Is this "Vibe" or "XXL"?

Really Brent, what do you know about hip hop?I've been a fan of hip hop since the days of Eric B. & Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, KRS-One, Public Enemy, Pharcyde, Dead Prez, A Tribe Called Quest, 2Pac, Notorious B.I.G., Wu-Tang Clan, etc. Of course some artists are vulgar (2 Live Crew back in the day), but don't condemn an entire form of music.

Come on Brent, you can do better than that. Put down the Pat Boone album. As for some forms of hip hop today that are TOTALLY different from Jay Z (who I personaly like), check out Lupe Fiasco, Little Brother, Talib Kweli, Common, and of course Dr. Cornel West's terrific album.

Now Brent, why didn't you criticize George W for dancing/using the "moves" with this group:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7GCkiDvkiE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwisQkmpqmQ&NR=1

Aren't they tied to female circumcision, polygamy, and genocide? Shame on Bush!!! LMAO!

With all that being said, let me put my I-Pod on. I think I'm going listen to some Lupe Fiasco as I head off to work.

So we Kick, Push Kick, Push Kick, Push Kick, Push Coast......

Almost forgot...
Look at W dancing with the Saudis!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoRHLrXmqbc&feature=related

So by Brent's "standards", W supports a regime where women are banned from driving on public roads, Freedom of speech and the press are restricted, Trade unions and political organizations are banned, Public demonstrations are forbidden, beheadings and floggings still occur, and the punishment for being gay is sometimes execution.

Shame on you Bush!! LOL!

BRENT
Pull your "PANTIES" up.90% of Mr.Obama's staff are; young,white,well-educated and affluent.Should he, show your brand of "Prejudice" and leave out the HOMIES?Remember,the President represents "ALL" the people.I know, it's a new concept,but get acquainted...

YUCK
I hate hip hop with a passion. It is depressing and vulgar. Even without the lyrics it sinks the soul.

If Obama wants to be cool
The Blues can't be beat.

Double Standard
Why is it that when Obama dusts off his shoulder, he wants to "be a p**p"...or he "is trying to gain the favoritism of his black/brown voter base"...

We all know that if ANY other non black politician did the same thing it would be said that he/she was "trying to attract the support of the youth..trying to garner the votes of a more urban demographic"...or something akin to that. Race and color would not have been injected into the gesture the way the media injects race into everything this guy does..

Dust Him Off
I was scanning the radio dial the other day and came across a station playing the old songs from the 60's and 70's. Sam Cooke, Otis Redding, Smokey Robinson, The Four Tops, The Temptations and all the great groups and singers from Motown.

Then as I continued up the dial, I came upon a station playing hip-hop or rap or whatever it's called. What a horrible, vulgar assault on the senses. How can something that only offers crude and obscene lyrics uttered in fits of inarticulate grunts and shouts be called music? I was immediately reminded of chimpanzees fighting over a female.

It seems that once again Hussein Obama has shown his true colors. Obama has adopted the crude and racist mannerisms of the hip-hop culture.

*sighs*
It is always interesting to hear those who know little about hip-hop (and the urban culture that spawned it) attempt to speak on it with authority. I usually enjoy Bozell's columns, but this is a topic better left to someone that actually has experience on the subject. As an Urban Conservative I am often embarrassed when mainstream conservative columnists address hip-hop. Their ignorance just gives the other side ample ammunition.

RE" "Dust Him Off'
"It seems that once again Hussein Obama has shown his true colors. Obama has adopted the crude and racist mannerisms of the hip-hop culture."

This is an exaggeration. Dusting one's shoulders off has NOTHING to do with crudeness or racism. I am not necessarily the biggest fan of the COMMERCIAL hip hop that Jay-Z represents. But if you are going to attempt to criticize what Obama did, at least KNOW what it actually means.To dust off your shoulders is a sign of ridding yourself of negativity and rising above circumstances that try to keep you down. At least know what something means before you criticize it.

Hussein Obama
can get by holding hip hop concerts until and if he should get to the American Whitehouse -- after that, his buddies(the muslims) would bring that CRAP to a screeching halt.

RE:BO is down with hos, pimps & b!tches
"How cool can it get when the prez loves gangsta rap? "

Um, please try again Jim. Jay-Z is NOT a gangsta rap artist.

Vespanat wrote:
"I'm sure Obama looked a lot cooler than your current President did dancing to that jazz band."

Is that the way you folks on the other side of the pond choose your leaders? No wonder your country is in such a mess.

Unrealistic, irrelevant standard
So, what Bozell is saying is that Obama, by alluding to a form of art with an action that is per se completely inoffensive (shoulder-brushing), is morally responsible for all the content of that art.

Do we genuinely demand that a moral person never have experienced, or enjoyed ANY aspect of, art of which "we" disapprove? I know that Bozell specializes in trying to sterilize the artistic spectrum of anything remotely offensive, but I think he's reaching here.
A good man must never have watched the Sopranos? A Clockwork Orange? Listened to gangsta rap, Slayer, or Lou Reed? Is the world really so binary that someone can't have experienced all these things and still understand how to treat other human beings?

Bozell seems to want a world full of hermetically sealed toddlers who are incapable of processing intellectual contradictions, or who are compelled to imitate anything they see.

Great Posts
Just American. Cons/GOPers just embarass themselves with their lack of knowledge on almost every subject, especially with hip hop. Remember this priceless clip of Mitt Romney at a MLK Day celebration:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pJWSIqv8NOc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=M2ken2x4cxo&feature=related

Who Let the Dogs Out!!!! LOL!!!


JayZ not gangsta rapper?
Just American says he's not a gangsta rapper.

He had me fooled with the titles of some of his greatest hits "American Gangster", "Too Many Hoes", B!tches and Sisters" etc. Sorry I don't know who's who in rap and you know I really prefer it that way!

Thank you, Mr. Bozell
(Note: Townhall's filter doesn't allow me to use the same word as in Mr. Bozell's article, so I have to settle for "p_mp".)

So Obama finally expresses himself honestly by implying that he's feeling like a p_mp ("If you feelin' like a p_mp ... go and brush your shoulders off."). He is kind of a p_mp, with his verbal bling and his bright, shiny, but thin veneer wearing off his ride to Pennsylvania Avenue. And remember his "cool" image in his first book, discussing the drugs he'd used ("blow") and hadn't used ("smack")? How Presidential is that?

Jim
"Sorry I don't know who's who in rap and you know I really prefer it that way!"

Maybe you shouldn't speak about subjects of which you have no real knowledge. Your reliance on stereotypes and disproven talking points really shows your ignorance.

Re:JayZ not gangsta rapper?
Hello again Jim,

YES, Jay-Z is not a gangsta rapper. The term "gangsta rap" refers to a SUBGENRE of HIP-HOP originated in the greater Los Angeles area around 1989 and reached its peak in the early 1990s. Examples of gangsta rappers would be NWA, Snoop Dogg, and Dr. Dre.

Jay-Z is from NEW YORK CITY and is part of the East Coast rap movement that regained dominance in the 1990s. Examples of East Coast rappers are Jay-Z, Ma$e, Camron, the Notorious B.I.G, Busta Rhymes, etc.

But as you said: "Sorry I don't know who's who in rap and you know I really prefer it that way!", so maybe you should stick to dissecting forms of music that you actually know something about.

LOL@people thinking Jay-Z is a gangsta rapper....the ignorance is hilarious!

BTW Jim-the songs you mentioned by Jay-Z are not his greatest hits.

I don't think of J-Zee or Bee-Zee or any
of the text-speak garble concoctions but thoroughly understand my parents never liked roch'n'roll.

On the other hand, some rap hippiddy rabbitty is beyond any pale, and Obama can't win a national election based on any part of it.

The street isn't going to elect him. A forty-one-year-old white guy who pays taxes and owns property is still the average profile of the Am. voter.

As long as Obama mouths off on "typical white" people, as if he knew any--they don't likely attend Trinity Church--and thinks of working class people as bitter because they haven't been enslaved to the gov't enough as it is--spending much of every year working just to make the taxes they must pay, he can't win a national election.

Obama will prob. get the Dem. nomination, whatever number of delegates he has. The white guilt that informs liberals will surely place him at the head of the ticket.

Nevertheless, Obama is unseasoned, not ready for prime time, clueless, idea-deficient, over beloved of the MSM, and thin-skinned, not good combinations.

I'm eating popcorn and enjoying the movie.

enough already
"He is kind of a p_mp"

Do you know what that word means? How does Mr. Obama fit that profile in any way?

"with his verbal bling"

So because the man is an exceptional communicator, you hld it against him? Did you great communication skills against Ronnie Reagan?

"and his bright, shiny, but thin veneer wearing off his ride to Pennsylvania Avenue."

Apparently that veneer is not too thin. The man still leads in almost every nationwide head to head poll against John McCain.

" And remember his "cool" image in his first book"

Did you read his first book? I highly doubt it.

"...discussing the drugs he'd used ("blow") and hadn't used ("smack")? How Presidential is that?"

So we had George W Bush who was an alcoholic and who also experimented with illegal drugs himself. We also have John McCain who was a notorious party man in his youth and who cheated on his 1st wife with his now 2nd wife. Really man/dude, are these men "Presidential" themselves?

renny
My friend from Baltimore. How are you?

As for the General Election, I think your analysis is totally wrong. Tell you what, how about we make a frindly wager:

If Obama wins, you owe me a bushel of blue crabs

If Mr. Potter wins, I owe you a package of half smokes.

Sound fair?

I really stepped in it
What a fool I am not knowing gangsta rap from east coast rap. Glad I could make your day Ralphie and Justie. Doesn't take much to amuse you two!

RE:I really stepped in it
Not knowing the difference between the two does not make you a fool. PRETENDING that you know something about a subject you obviously do not is what made you look like a fool.

King Liberal
You can run from this question but you cannot hide from it.

Have you ever made a post without.

1) pointing to bad behavior of someone to justify other bad behavior.
2) attacking the messenger instead of debating the message of the messenger.
3) labeling and name calling of anyone who disagrees with you.

Please answer the question?

Who cares about the brush off?
Obama was connecting to the pop culture of a part of his base, which all politicians try to do to some extent. It's part of the "I'm one of you" shtick. So what? While Obama's race is irrelevant to his competence, it does influence, to some degree, the pop culture he's been exposed to, but so what?

This issue is as irrelevant to me as Obama's middle name - who cares if it's Hussein? His parents gave him that name, he didn't take it himself.

However, there ARE several issues re. Obama that are of serious concern, and should be. These include his 19 year relationship with Rev. Wright. For him to say he knew nothing about the tenor of the man's sermons begs the question - was he asleep in church, did he not attend, or does he suffer from the same kind of memory disorder that Hillary often seems to deal with?

There is also the association with Bill Ayers, and the Rezko issue, and of course his comment about people clinging to gun and God. Since that last was a comment he himself made, in what he assumed was a private venue, that gave a real insight into his character.

However, MOST important - what is Obama's experience? What is his voting record? What is his stance on the issues?

These are all salient points that matter much more than whether or not Obama occasionally listens to rap.

RE:Who cares about the brush off?
Great post Shefali. Thanks for focusing on the real issues at stake here.

the oblahma, rap and the lapel pin
It seems odd that the oblahma is very quick to give a symbolized gesture to his hip hop constituancy as if he needed to do anything more to get their total support.

But at the same time he has no problem insulting whites who hold that wearing a flag lapel pin shows support for our troops. But he forgets that he desparately needs their support.

What it indicates is that the oblahma understands the use of symbols but lacks the judgement to use them properly. Perhaps if the oblahma had been more concerned about his american identity rather than his search for his black identity he might have a better understanding of who americans are and what america stands for.

But what the oblahma has shown is his judgement about people raises too many questions. But he has gone from cries of adulation to persons looking for his next mistake which opens him to more questions and more attacks.

But he is showing that he is too inexperienced and lacks enough knowledge about this country to be it's leader. Empty rhetoric, a sonorous voice and a wide grin don't make up for a stumbling campaign that is failing to connect with the public is now haunting him. He has opened himself up to never ending attacks from the clinton camp and as all know the clintons have perfected the book on attack politics. But should he get nomination he has shown the repubs exactly where he is vulnerable to attack.

I still doubt the oblahma will get the nomination. I still believe the rich white boys running the dims are not going to turn the party over to the dims favorite victim group. The dims rely on blacks to win elections but it remains doubtful the dims are ready to invite blacks to sit at their table of power./
B

Liberals on Obama
Liberals do NOT want citizens to judge the worthiness of Obama to be POTUS, by his associations, those who are drawn to him, those who endorse him, by his words, by his actions.

He has never accomplished anything except to have voted "present" more than anyone else.

We are to judge his worthiness by what? ? ? ? ?

is it open forum?
No ?

Anyway; I have nephews who are not black, they're hip hoppers; a white neighbor who listens to eminem, a white rapper. It's making some people happy. Go figure.

Mr. Ralph Ellison calls it Wow! MUSIC. His evaluation is what open forums allow. He can be wrong and still post his stupefying opinions. BUT, so may I.

Music doesn't have to be an elite only, Schubert's Unfinished Symphony, or Chopin etude. But it has to be music; not just beat. RAP is not music! It's words; repulsive and unlyrical but hippy-hoppy. With no relation to music. Music has been missing in America since the late fifties, IMHO.

Just as Obama's speeches are not much more than rap. He can rap with the best (sic) of them; but has never said anything remotely trustworthy to Americans. The main difference between him and __thug city__ is he speaks well in American syntax and grammar; unlike gangstahs. That's why some Democrats have fallen under his show-biz spell. Equivalent speech to Oprah's; who has a better grasp of civilized behavior.

I'm told that Oprah sat in on a Rev. Wright hate-fest for about 10 minutes and couldn't stand it. She left the church silently and never went back.

Brent Bozell is wrong on this one
It is not important if Obama listens to rap occasionally. Who cares? Occasionally, I watch "The Wire" or "The Sopranos", that does not make me a drug dealer or a lover of mafia bosses.
The important issues are about Obama's platform. We should debate about his plans on Social Security or Health care, etc, NOT if Jay-Z or Kanye, is his favorite rapper. It is obvious that Obama is reaching out to his base, that is what a politician needs to do. I am NOT a fan of Obama, but I would rather see the debate focus on the strength of weakness of his political positions, not what type of music he likes.

Invisible Man aka Ralph Ellison, how are you? Where have you been? Helping push Obama's presidential run?

To all of you
who try to change the subject by saying that Bush isn't fit to be president, or that McCain isn't fit to be president, I agree, they're not. But this article isn't about them; it's about Obama, and just some of the reasons he's also unfit for the job. Your logic seems to be: "Bush and McCain aren't presidential material, therefore Obama is." That isn't logic. It is stupidity.

Ralph Ellison
The "p_mp" reference to Obama in my earlier post relates only to the flashy, superficial nature of his campaign and career. As to the references to earlier drug use, it is the terminology that is significant -- using slang words "blow" and "smack" to establish his supposed coolness. This is in sharp contrast with other candidates past or present. I don't really care if a candidate previously had an alcohol problem or smoked marijuana at some point. It is the glamorization of it in his book that is the problem.

flashback
So Bozell is updating his parents warnings from the '50's about that evil rock and roll music. You know it comes from black culture with all of that wiggling of the hips.

I personally don't get the appeal of Jay-Z. But I consider it a plus rather than a minus that Obama is tuned in enough to pop culture to be able to make such an apt reference. I did not know the phrase before Obama used it, but it apparently is a response to being heaped with degrading accusations, and the message is to just let it roll off of you. As a response to the ABC debate it was pretty good.

But I can understand why the elitists among you think that Obama shouldn't even know what those rappers are up to.

Wildwest, My Brother
Hey bro. Interesting comments. Hope you don’t mind me responding.

“It seems odd that the oblahma is very quick to give a symbolized gesture to his hip hop constituency as if he needed to do anything more to get their total support.”

I really don’t know. I mean, he is doing very well among white youth. I sure you realize that white Americans buy more than 70 percent of the rap music in this country, according to Mediamark Research Inc.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/0 9/07/AR2007090702048.html

“But at the same time he has no problem insulting whites who hold that wearing a flag lapel pin shows support for our troops.”

So all whites are insulted by this man not wearing a flag pin? Can we say shallow as well as stupid! A flag pin (made in China most likely) is a necessity for true patriotism? Well John McCain must not be patriotic then by that stupid standard right?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/04/20/notice-anything-jo hn-mccain-doesnt-have-an-american-flag-pin/

“But he forgets that he desparately needs their support.”

Of course. Mr. Obama has gained vast white support in Idaho, Wyoming, Kansas, Utah, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc. I don’t think he has forgotten.

“What it indicates is that the oblahma understands the use of symbols but lacks the judgement to use them properly.”

Very stupid comment.

“Perhaps if the oblahma had been more concerned about his american identity”

What is an American identity?

“ rather than his search for his black identity he might have a better understanding of who americans are and what america stands for.”

Um, African Americans are part of America and are examples of what America stands for. Please tell me your definition of America and what we stand for.

“But what the oblahma has shown is his judgement about people raises too many questions.“

Really? Do you apply the same standard to Mr. McCain or George W?

WW, we're like the Bennett Family!!
“But he has gone from cries of adulation to persons looking for his next mistake which opens him to more questions and more attacks.”

I agree. Welcome to American politics!

“But he is showing that he is too inexperienced and lacks enough knowledge about this country to be it's leader.”

Really? By your standard?

“ Empty rhetoric, a sonorous voice and a wide grin don't make up for a stumbling campaign that is failing to connect with the public is now haunting him.”

So Obama’s campaign is stumbling? Well how do you explain the latest poll numbers as well as the his fundraising totals?

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.asp?id=N00009638& cycle=2008

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/electio n_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_track ing_poll

“He has opened himself up to never ending attacks from the clinton camp and as all know the clintons have perfected the book on attack politics. But should he get nomination he has shown the repubs exactly where he is vulnerable to attack.”

Wow, all true. However, John Sidney McCain has several issues as well.

“I still doubt the oblahma will get the nomination.”

I totally disagree.

“ I still believe the rich white boys running the dims are not going to turn the party over to the dims favorite victim group.”

You mean the working class white male vote? Lol!

“ The dims rely on blacks to win elections but it remains doubtful the dims are ready to invite blacks to sit at their table of power.”

So no African American holds any sway in the DNC power structure? So the CBC is irrelevant? Ron Brown had no power when he was DNC Chair? I’d love for you to present some data to back up your assertion.

Speaking of that, the GOP seems to have that problem indeed. Look at the comments of JC Watts:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2007/10/5915_j c_watts_warns.html

Hip Hop is not for children or adults.
Whatever the opposite of joy, light-heartedness, and uplifting is that is hip-hop. It's not just the lyrics. The sound itself is not good for the soul. After listening to it at a wedding for 4 hours I wanted to do something violent. I firmly believe it drives violence and is played in hell.

Dreadnaught's Definition of Music
Slightly out of order, D-naught, I'd like to start with "Music's been missing in America since the late fifties, IMHO."

Do you genuinely believe that, or was it meant as a facetious aside? If the first, your definition of music is more alien than I can begin to comprehend. Music is not defined as "sounds that I like produced in a social context that I also like."

Entirely separate, though, is your assertion (which I hear much more often) that rap is not music. Really? Or are you simply reverting to the implicit definition above?
Support yourself, perhaps?

Moreover (and here's what never gets discussed), what happens if rap is not music? How does the definition affect the way we treat it?

REAL Music
For the benefit of Ralph Ellison;

MUSIC, in black America:
Ellington
New Orleans Jazz
Nat King Cole
Ray Charles
Lady Day
Miles Davis

Blacks who excelled at white's style of music:

Ella Fitzgerald,
Sammy Davis Jr.
Johnny Mathis,
Charley Pride

CLASS in the African American

Leontyne Price
Kathleen Battle
Grace Bumbry

Notice I leave out most Rock stars; and in the white singing stars, Caruso, Callas, Sinatra, and-- Pat Boone.

/



John Shaft
"Invisible Man aka Ralph Ellison, how are you? Where have you been? Helping push Obama's presidential run?"

I'm doing alrite. My allergies have been kicking my @ss though the last few days. I've been around. Just leave a message on my blog when you want to talk. I'm doing my best for Obama. Just sent his campaign $125 3 days ago. Got my 3 yards signs up. Signed up everyone on my block to vote (3 registered as Republicans though; It's ok as long as they just vote!).

Other than that, I'm cool. Getting ready to leave the office.

How about you?

WTF?
so, because obama brushed his shoulders off, now he supports drug selling, promiscuity, vulgarity, and the degradation of women? that makes sense...

dear ira


Is WTF a compliment aimed at your betters?

No, what it means is, Obama is just a lightweight. I don't mean on the streets of Chicago. I mean in the White House and as Commander-in-Chief.

dreadnaught
Um ok. First off, people have different tastes in music. Does that suprise you or bother you?

As for your examples,

"Ellington"- Love Duke. Hometown hero. Some of my favorites tunes include "Sophisticated Lady" as well as "Satin Doll". Don't forget about his later works, especially my one of my favorites, the entire The Far East Suite. Don't forget about Billy Strayhorn, who is equally as important.

I like Dixieland Jazz myself. You can't top King Oliver or Sidney Bechet. Don't forget about Louis and his HOT 5.

Love Ray Charles and Nat King Cole(not exactly jazz though). I have a replica poster of Billie Holiday at Bohemian Caverns frm like 1945. I also love Miles Davis (Birth of the Cool to Sketches of Spain to Kind of Blue to Bitches Brew).

You also left out so many grats like Coltraine, Gillespie, Coleman Hawkins, Monk, Max Roach, Mingus, etc.

I'm also a big buff of the late Charlie Christian. He influenced so many modern day artists. Too bad he only had 25 years of life.

ellison
despite your protestations to the contrary, this is a forumn for opinions. Some may have more validity than others but most post from their own perspective. I post based on what I read in other columns and the comments I gleen from others. May be my take is on point, perhaps not. Time will ultimately prove who was correct in their analysis

Hi, Nyarlathtep
Hello, Ny,

Thanks you for framing your question this way:

"Do you genuinely believe that, or was it meant as a facetious aside? If the first, your definition of music is more alien than I can begin to comprehend."

Many others would have said, "F--you and the horse you rode in on." Lol!

It means just what I said. Really. Is it alien to you ?

Not me. I don't expect everyone to see it my way. But; I've heard virtually all the music in the western world. And that includes the part of it I leave out, from the 50's to this day. Most of it left out because it ranks so low on the scale of INVENTIVE, DISCURSIVE, UPLIFTING and CLEVER.

Who cares about composing which appeals only to the hips? If that ranked high as music we might as well settle for James Brown or Flamenco or Merengue.

I was referring only to what makes music memorable. Today nobody cares to listen anymore to "Bette Davis Eyes," because it was crap. RAP is CRAP, the day's coming when just retards listen to it, IMHO.

But some older music will never die. Look at the list I made.


dred
"Blacks who excelled at white's style of music"

What the hell does that mean? Anyway, I think Ella Fitzgerald was the greatest singer ever. Sammy Davis Jr was the one of the greatest entertainers ever. I've had the pleasure of seeing Johnny Mathis live a few years ago at Wolftrap. The abuse that man had to go through just because he was gay. Sad. Charley Pride is very talented, just not my style of music.

"CLASS in the African American"

Again, what does that mean? I do like opera (thank you Grandma and PBS). Leontyne Price
Kathleen Battle, and Grace Bumbry are all impresive. However, don't forget about Marian Anderson, Robert McFerrin, Lillian Evanti or a younger star like DC native Denyce Graves.

As for white artists, why didn't you include them? I've had the pleasure of seeing Dave Brubeck, Charlie Byrd, and Dr. John perform live. Big fan of Gil Evans and Stan Getz. Don't forget about John McLaughlin and his (former)Mahavishnu Orchestra.

Again, I like all types of music. Sorry.

wildwest
Do your thing Wildwest. Be you baby! I just like to correct you with current/historical facts. I'm just looking out for you. That's what family is for.

Luv ya man.

dear ralph,

My late brother's name was Ralph. He liked country western. Most of it I can live without.

But, I can't live without Shostakovich. Do you dig him? I love opera; as you see above Leontyne was a bang-up Diva. Do you like Klezmer ? I love Klezmer, and Italian film music. The guy who wrote the Godfather score goes back to the 50's in Fellini's biggest hits; a GENIUS ! That's Nino Rota.

I love Mexican Boleros, and Broadway, I'm crazy about Gershwin (Porgy & Bess, which black people didn't dig. (Catfish Row was a figure of Gee Chee life, I think you know what I mean.)

You have to KNOW it all; so you can rank it as it deserves. And, most importantly, Ralph: it has to be real music.



dear ralph, again:
you ask, "Blacks who excelled at white's style of music"

What the hell does that mean? Anyway, I think Ella Fitzgerald was the greatest singer ever."

They had nothing like an ethnic ring (Ella did, early on) as the Rappers do.

Ella's my all-time favorite songstress too. These artists caught on enormously with white Americans, as you realize.

And, sure; I leave out so many. Marian Anderson is long long ago, is whatsizname, Paul Old Man River. A GIANT. How could "Too Legit to Quit" equal that man and his gig? Get real. Anyway; what I mean to say is, African Americans have scaled the heights, Ralph.

Rap is like the wasted talent you see sprayed on boxcars on the railroad tracks. MUSIC is a real ART. --Rap can never be art, just like you can't be invisible, Brother. (Because you are real, not pretending, like Rap.)




dred
Shostakovich is very impressive. Just be careful though. You know its wrong to praise a Communist on TH! LOL!

Klezmer is nice. Whenever I hear it, I feel like I'm actaully in a live version of "Fiddler on The Roof".

Italian film music is nice and so is Mexican Boleros. Broadway is also impressive, especially that of Cole Porter and Rodgers and Hammerstein. As for Porgy & Bess, it is complicated. Some view it as art, some view it as a "minstrel opera". It has had controversy ever since its first production. Same goes with the film "Song of the South". Leave some things in the past.

King Liberal
Are you going after me or dred?

Take a good look...
...at the Obamanistas and their comments. This is America 2008. It's a hip-hop nation, dogg! Suck in the flava!

I weep for the future.

dreadnaught
"They had nothing like an ethnic ring (Ella did, early on) as the Rappers do"

I disagree. Just like today with rap music, most jazz music/Big Band was consumed by a majority white audience. Look at the Cotton Club when Duke played there. He couldn't even enter the front door.

"what I mean to say is, African Americans have scaled the heights, Ralph."

Indeed. Since the beginning of time.

"Rap is like the wasted talent you see sprayed on boxcars on the railroad tracks. MUSIC is a real ART. --Rap can never be art, just like you can't be invisible, Brother. (Because you are real, not pretending, like Rap.)"

I disagree. While not like jazz music or opera, hip hop does have a place and is a form of art. I've grown up on hip hop/rap. While a good deal of mainstream rap is some garbage, I implore you to look at the artists I mentioned earlier. I'd think you like it.

D-naught
I rarely post without trying to prove some kind of logical point, but this time I just have a personal recommendation: Don't give up on music in the last fifty years.
Sure, some ugly elements have been introduced, and there have been some massive stinkers, but I consider myself well educated and intelligent, and I find both emotional and intellectual appeal in a lot of modern recordings, particularly as a musician.
It's strictly a matter of taste, of course, so I can't demand that you listen.

Consider, perhaps? These aren't all my flat-out favorites, but they all have non-rock elements that might make them more palatable:

King Crimson
Deerhoof
Radiohead
Egg
Neutral Milk Hotel

And, of course, for blinding rock fury, you can't beat Queens of the Stone Age's "Songs for the Deaf."

come on, ralph,
My life would be incomplete if never again I heard "I got plenty of nothing," and "It ain't necessarily so."

If you're interested, read a book titled "Testimony," and you'll see (a controversial side) that Shostakovich was not a Commie at heart. He lived in his music, not the Party. He's THE greatest symphonic composer of the 20th century. After you've heard his 1st, 4th, 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th symphonies, two violin concertos;

You'll give up all the "masters," back to Mozart. Especially if you like percussion.

YES, King Liberal. I confess to being somewhat elitist. (I hope you don't object.)


dreadnaught
I was just joking. I really don't think his being a Communist or not impacts his genius.

However, there are those on this site (you know who) who hate anything connected to anything Communist, even if it is the most miniscule, Six degrees of separation thing. LOL!

CHeck out the hip hop artists if you can. I'll check out the book.

Wow, BB3
So now a reference to a style of music you don't like means that Obama tacitly endorses the 'vile and contemptible' message of hip-hop, and is therefore a bad guy? Does this mean that conservatives should disavow Ann Coulter because she likes the Grateful Dead? I mean, aren't they at least partially responsible for the hippies? I think that BB3 (which I'm imagining he would pronounce BBCubed if he were a rapper himself) and the PTC should sponsor a presidential debate where all the questions revolve around the candidates' taste in movies, TV, music, and literature. Let's just hope none of them mentions Family Guy or his head might explode.

thank you, my friend
Dear Nyarlathotep;

Thanks for the good word.

"I just have a personal recommendation: Don't give up on music in the last fifty years.
Sure, some ugly elements have been introduced, and there have been some massive stinkers, but I consider myself well educated and intelligent, and I find both emotional and intellectual appeal in a lot of modern recordings, particularly as a musician."

I admit, you must never say never. Sure things aren't as bad as I term them in the hyperbolic.

And plenty of drek was composed far back in the past, as well. We can't generalize. But in fact:

That's my point. We have a distilled music over the last century, thanks to the recording industry. The cream is what's always on top. I'll give my benefit of the doubt. Maybe soon I'll listen to some of those standouts you & Ralph point out. (I'm glad you haven't touted the Beachboys, at least (ugh).

Ralph & Dread
I have to say that I've enjoyed scrolling through your posts. Being in my late 20's, most of the music that you refer to came before my time, but, thanks to music loving parents, I have come to appreciate much of it, especially jazz. Every post I read made me think 'boy I haven't listened to that in a while' and caused another name to be added to my itunes list. Music always seems to find a way to bring people together, no matter the style. If only we could discuss politics this way. Oh well.

"If you get confused, listen to the music play!"

Ralph
Glad to see you are posting and mixing it up with the folks here! I understand the allergies thing, I have been fighting that also.
The type of music Obama listens to each day is no more relevant than G Dub dancing(or trying to dance). What is relevant are his plans for office.
Since you like music, do you have any Ronny Jordan?

Dumb
Dumbest. Article. Ever. Written.

Seriously.

Of all the issues out there that confront America and all the arguments for and against voting for Obama or Clinton or McCain, this is the topic that warrants discussion????

A moment of levity during the campain which possibly references a hip hop song?

Really? Truly? This is worth talking about?

You guys are nuts.

Most of his problem
stems from over-reaching to gain credibility with blacks.
Poor guy.
In his youth he was just a nerd in a hawaiian shirt, pretty priveleged and effete. Been strugging ever since to be authentically black, once he decided it would be to his advantage politically.
Not much authentic there.

Great post, King Lib


Of course, you leave me speechless. Not.

If you read my posts without your bias, it might strike you I'm usually qualifying things i say, with IMHO, or, "Everyone won't see it my way."

And then I try to communicate.

Your posts try to kill the messengers. But; as before let me say: This is an open forum. Get your cookies anyway you please.

P.S. Maybe the elitist brand is fair, but I'm not running for President. Nobody has to vote for me or invite me over for a game of chess (elite-style.) You can ignore everything I say.

Oh for crying out loud...
...this is getting just plain dumb and stupid.

While I don't personally call what rappers do as music, and many of the "songs" in my own opinion are nothing more than vulgarities set to a deep bass throb, if Obama wants to listen to it, so what?

There are plenty of real issues I have with the man without screaming "...and just look at the music he listens to!"

Now if he starts refering to "Hail To The Chief" as "Who's Yo' Daddy", or calling the Secret Service detail as his posse or greets foriegn dignitaries with a "Yo, Dawg!", then you can get back to me. Till then, give it a rest.

Responsibility? Not Here!!
Way Kool Dude, or is that Dud? Just another example of race-hustling. Daa Sung ees jes da hood's way ta shout-out duh un-fare state wees in! So education, ambition, drive and perseverance are all out, "cause day to white!" No, they'll all lift up society with drugs, crime, Hoe's and narcistic self-only behavior. Simply too pathetic to take seriously, yet it must be addressed. Oh wait, Bill Cosby tried didn't he? Other black, successful individuals have tried as well, but that road they point out is much too hard. The much easier road is: "It's all whitey's fault, and whitey still owes me." That's the raod the race-hustlers, a.k.a. Sharpton, Jackson, Preacher Wright instill and insist upon. Again, how pathetic.

say, leroy
The word is out, Man.

Which makes me think now; I may soon be saying,


"Leroy ? Sure! I knew him when we were on Townhall in 2008. Now Leroy's the new Secretary of Rap. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy !"

Incredulous
The Incredulous Knee-Jerk Politics doll comes with six fun phrases! Push an issue button and get a predetermined response, regardless of relevance to the actual topic of discussion! New: now with "OMG TEH GAYZ!"

Did you even read the article or any of the intervening comments, or just see the word "rap" and roll with it?

gangsta rap & obama
Not knowing explicitly what all were referring to, I would never have known what the "signal" meant from his shoulder dusting.

Hip hop or rap, whatever the coin is today, is another niche grouping within this country set with their own culture, lexicon, and appearance.

As typical with Democrats (maybe all politicians) is that they are trying to reach to all different venues to grasp at a small percentage of votes, which in this case may or may not vote at all. I understand that Obama is black and the hip hop culture appeals to blacks, but I doubt that Obama's comments reflect his true feelings. I personally doubt this music is played in the Obama household. Too bad for him, he is setting himself up again on a subject that he knows little of, while stating he is a part of it because of race, etc.

Again, he is showing a strong vapidness about reality versus this imaginary world he is trying to establish to his constituents.

We don't want a homeboy in Whitehous
Good Americans not only don't want Obama’s terrorist connections, but his "young" behavior at his middle age is REPULSIVE,

We don't want a homeboy in the Whitehouse,

and NO we DON'T want a basketball court installed in the Whitehouse lobby,

and NO we DON'T want a cool urban dude doing homeboy handshakes wearing shades with a blunt behind his ear and clowning bravado in the Whitehouse,

and NO we DON'T want parties and pole dancers in the Whitehouse,

and DOUBLE NO we DON'T want “Imadinnerjacket,” the president of Iran or any other anti-Semites in the Whitehouse;

we don't want Obama at all.

JUST SAY NO TO "O"

I Can't Believe It!
I can't beleive that as this campaign progresses, Obama is becoming the "black candidate". He is evolving into the MAN of the black culture, now including the urban under-culture. The polls are beginning to reveal it and articles like that above are beginning to discover the trend. It is surprising that a man half white and half black can be viewed in this manner by all segments of the black community. It appears his support is beginning to coalesce only to the black community and young, partially educated idealists. This is not a reliable voting bloc.

The movers and shakers in the Dem party should begin to worry. This narrowing, demographic slice of support does not bode well for the General Election. This slice of demograhics does not rest easily with other segments of traditional Dem support. History may speak of the huge influence of "McCain Democrats" consisting of White Male Union Members, Lower Middle Class Rural Families, Hispanics, Southern Whites and Angry Women (Hillary supporters).

Obama can only succeed by maintaining a broad base of support; it's eroding as we watch!

dreadnaught
I'll remember you when I make the big time, call you up and we can split a six pack of Miller High Life cause by then the Schaeffer Light will be a distant memory. Nothing but the good stuff for me and my home boys.

MoniQue
Wow! Your entire post was repulsive.

BTW, "Whitehouse" is incorrect. It is the White House.

opps...
...I meant:

"Home Bouuuyyyyz"

I'll never get that #!*%&@ job at this rate.

OBAMA WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT?
OH HECK NO! A HOOD IN THE WHITEHOUSE? LAST THING WE NEED IS AN NBA ARENA, POLE DANCERS FOR LATE NIGHT ENTERTAINMENT WHILE REVEREND WRIGHT IS BUSY IN ANOTHER ROOM PERPARING HIS SUNDAY SERMON! NOT IN THE LIFETIME!! DROP OUT OBAMA! THE REAL YOU (RACIST AND A HOOD) HAS NOW COME OUT...YOU TRIED TO RUN GAME ON THE ENTIRE WORLD AND NOW WE KNOW YOUR GAME! GET OUT!!

Rappers are not "ARTISTS"
O by the way. As a real musician, who actually plays an instrument, and an artist who actually paints and draws; I find it amusing, yet disgusting, to constantly hear people loosely refer to rappists as "artists."

That may fly to the majority of folks who have never mastered art or music OF ANY VENUE; but it is not true to those of us who have.

True, there's many forms of "art," and even performance art. Fair enough. But to call anyone who simply simulates vulgar sex acts while shouting out bi*ch and glorifying murder and prison to a drum machine recorded in a studio doesn't make someone an artist. It simply makes them a porn star, and at best a commercial actor promoting dope, crime, and jail time.

It is amazing to me that the general public swallows this up. Calling ones self an artist doesn't make it so.

Ha Ha, real artists and musicians laughing at you.

Be an artist (or just look like one). No, what they really are ARE ACTORS.

(sorry, I don't mean to insult real actors here, but that would be the closest category, entertainment wise that is)

Perhaps we can just call them buffoons.

Oops! Again, I must apologize to true clowns everywhere.

You fill in the appropriate words.

MoniQue...
...I think you were looking for the Huff Post. It's down a little further then take a hard left. Just follow your nose you can't miss it, you're gonna feel right at home there.

John Shaft
I have a little of Ronny Jordan. Acid jazz right?

Any thing
not classical or country is not worth listening to.
Most of what is called music today is nothing more than SLAM BANG THUMP THUMP SCREECH SCREECH!!

However, it does help keep rats & mice away.

Incredulous
After reading your entire stereotype based post, 2 questions:

1. What the hell does it have to do with Barack Obama?

2. Are you trying to typecast 38 million people?

chillers
Please go back to Stormfront with that garbage. Not acceptable at all.

leroy, my man!

Hang tough,

You gots to learn to creep before yuz can walk. Or crawl? No way, we don't crawl !

I was on You Tube a while back; and found Flip Wilson. --

There's one who knew all the moves. He would've sent Killer after the Cat who Walks Like a Man, and told him Geraldine FROWMS on any man who speaks like DAT.

"Don't you TOUCH me, Obambi!"

Obama is repulsive
Oh Ralph,

If you think that post was replulsive, you'll just love my other one.

Thanks for the spelling reminder: WHITE HOUSE.


Obama,The Cool
Oh yes,Barack Hussein Obama is 'cool'.He really 'chills' me.So he likes Rap Music,huh? It is called 'music',but it is really NOT.It is some stupid,nasty rhime set to noise.

I hope I never have to see some of these so-called musicians strolling around our White House,with their pants hanging down around their knees.One hand holding their pants up and the other grabbing their crotch.

Trying to be politically correct,a lot of people claim to like the thing called Rap.If they really do,they have absolutely no taste in music.An old tom cat with his tail caught under a rocking chair sounds better to me. Just my opinion.Don'cha know?

Artists don't follow sheep mentality
Leroy,

Nice try to pin me in, but as a real artist I don't follow sheep herd mentality. I am a part of all groups and I am a part of all races and of all colors and I am a part of all political groups and I am even a part of your human family.

But this blog isn't about me or even you for that matter. I expressed my thoughts on the subjects in the article. You don't like what I say so you want to focus in on ME. Fair enough. But laughable since you don't even know me. Even if I am one of your relatives.

dreadnaught
Flip Wilson was great, he made Geraldine into a person of her own. Comedy was a lot better back when it was funny.

Today Flip would be run out of town for cross dressing as part of a comedy act, cross dressing not being a laughing matter these days now it is a "life choice" to be "celebrated".

MoniQue
Sorry, didn't recognize you there for a minute. Hope you will forgive me for not appreciating your wordly importance immediately. When I first read your post I mistook you for a stooge.

Oh man, after re-reading it turns out my initial reaction was correct, you are a stooge.

Have a very self important day MisQue.

remember, ralph
Ralph:

Keep in mind this is an "open" phorum. Mon Nick is entitled to be obnoxious. Just like me. Excepting I like to keep it light-hearted. And that's something I like about you.

I'm 70 yrs old, Man. Older than your novel. When we were youngsters we learned the jive. We were friends, at least on the west coast. There was little or no defiance. We all believed in God;

And all of us loved Ella (the First Lady of Song) and Nat and Blue Moon. Some bad things happened. In the Bible Jesus put it this way: "An enemy has done this."

Those of us who still believe see better times ahead, a new black and white and love your neighbor. We've got to give God a chance. That's all, don't you agree?

.

YOU THINK IM KIDDING?
WAKE UP!! OBAMA MADE A DECISION TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT THINKING THIS RACE WOULD NEVER GO THIS FAR AND NOW WHATS HAPPENING IS ALL HIS GARBAGE IS BEING EXPOSED FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTRY TO SEE...LET ME JUST BE BLUNT ABOUT IT......THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL NOT LET THAT TYPE OF PERSON IN THE WHITE HOUSE! HE PREACHES HES THE "CHANGE" NOTHING LIKE THAT! WANTS TO UNITE ALL COLORS! WELL HOW THE HELL CAN HE UNITE ALL COLORS WHEN HE AND HIS HOODRAT WIFE HATE WHITE AMERICA! UNLESS OF COURSE THEY HAVE SOME MONEY! HE IS INSANE IF HE THINKS HE WILL EVER BE IN THE WHITE HOUSE!HE'LL NEVER GET THIS NOMINATION NOW DONT YOU ALL SEE THAT YET? OMG! THE FIRST TIME I SAW REV WRIGHT 2 MONTHS AGO I KNEW HIS DAYZ WERE OVER! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? OBAMA IN THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS POSISTION IN THE WORLD????LOL! HES DONE!

dreadnaught
Your right about Monique. She has a right to be utterly repulsive. That is her/his choice. However, it is also my duty to call em as I see em.

As for you being 70 years old, more power to you. Its funny that we both like Jazz and Opera, especially when I'm half your age! LOL! Good Music is Good Music. It never loses it appeal!

As for hopingfor a better world, This liberal here agrees with ya wholeheartedly.

God Bless and take care.


chillers
You really need to chill and go back to Stormfront. Your hatred as well as ignorance is not acceptable.

Here's a tip: Take the Caps Lock off the keyboard, turn off the computer, leave your mother's basement (pay her some rent too!), and go take your daily dose of Prozac.


LET ME GO A STEP FURTHER FOR YOU ALL
IF AND I SAID "IF" OBAMA GETS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION HE WILL BE CRUSHED IN THE GENRAL ELECTION NO MATTER HOW BAD MACCAIN FALLS BECAUSE ALL CLINTON VOTERS WILL GANG UP ON THIS MAN AND LITERALLY GO VOTE FOR MCCAIN AND TRUST THAT WILL BE ABOUT 40% OF PEOPLE JUST SO HE WONT HAVE A CHANCE...."GET IT YOU FOOL"!! LIKE I SAID "AMERICANS WONT LET THIS MAN IN" OH HAVE YOU FOROT OBAMA CANT EVEN WIN THE BIG STATES ANYWAY? LOL! YOU GOT TO GO THRU PENSYVANIA AVE TO GET TO THE WHITE HOUSE!! HE CAN EVEN CLOSE THE DEAL I MIGHT ADD AS WELL! HES DONE...SLOWLY BLEEDING UNTIL HIS DEATH! (THAT DEATH IS COMING SOONER THEN YOU THINK) YOU CANT WIN THE PRESIDENCY WITH 92% OF THE BLACK VOTE ANYWAY!! THATS ALL HE'LL HAVE BY THAT TIME!!

chiller's not very savvy
I'm not for Obama one bit. However, this is the wrong take:

SORRY PEOPLE OBAMA LIKE I SAID IS DONE! HES A KID, HES STILL HOOD, HIS WIFE LOOKS LIKE SHE'S STILL FROM THE HOOD AND ACTS LIKE THE TYPE OF PEOPLE THAT HANG OUT WITH STREET PEOPLE...MOST IMPORTANT IS THEY HATE AMERCIA UNLESS OF COURSE HE CAN RUN IT!!

Mine is, Obama with all his God-given charm, and the obvious intelligence, represents all the wrong causes. In his rallies, the folks are all in his camp to start with. This will have to pass. The ultra-leftist things he stands for are never going to bring him enough support across the political spectrum, or even get him swing votes.

IMHO, an African-American candidate (of either major party) must be VERY extraordinary as a MAN, a citizen; just like other great black men. A Stephen Douglas type would help his people as the President, because he would ELEVATE the presidency. A Colin Powell was such an extraordinary man. But let's be honest. Obama's not cut from that cloth. He's not extraordinary, he's a typical pol who is attractive and plays the audience. When that audience is already ultra-leftist.

Not even Denzell Washington would carry a national election with the kind of background Obama has. Charm by itself is not political clout.

wow
The man makes an side remark referencing the words of a rapper and it's enough to write about? Yep, I guess if you like a Jay Z song then you can't possibly be fit to be president. You people (i.e. white racist bigots) have lost your minds.

Monique
What kind of BS are you talking about? Obama is a Constitutional Professor, graduate from Harvard, a US Senator... but because he's black... you relegate his entire existence to the hood and basketball player. Why don't you just call him a spear-chucking jiggaboo and be done with it?

I'm glad you bigots feel comfortable coming here sharing you sickening points of views...


dreadnaught
Basically what you are saying is that in order for a black man to be president he can't be perceived as being a black man. It's saying that a black man must be white in all aspect and any association with the black community is a disqualifies him. If he knows a rap song: disqualified. If he has black friends who can't be looked upon as being white: disqualified. He can't even think about eating chicken, that would get him strung up in a tree.

But somehow, everyone on this site says that there is no racism in America towards black people. We can be anything we want to be... except be president.

RACIST? IM NOT EVEN WHITE!
ITS JUST NOT PRESIDENTIAL TO DO THAT STUFF IN A RALLY..WHAT HES DOING IS TRYING TO RELATE TO THE YOUNG PEOPLE AND THE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE THE ONES THAT SLOWLY LOSE INTEREST IN SOMETHING AFTER A WHILE! WHY DO YOU THINK HE UNDERPOLES?????THE KIDS ONLY WANT A PLACE TO GO TO FOR THE DAY AND ONCE THE PRIMARY TAKES PLACE 1/2 OF THEM DONT EVEN SHOW UP!! HES GOING AFTER THEW WRONG PEOPLE TO DO THAT WITH...HELL HE CANT EVEN GET ANYMORE BLUE COLLER WORKERS WHICH IS AN AUTOMATIC DEMOCRATIC LOSS FOR HIM....OH DID I ALSO MENTION IN PHILADELPHIA HE DID AMAZINGLY GREAT BUT WHAT THEY SAID WAS OVER 100,000 PEOPLE DIDNT EVEN RETURN TO GO VOTE!! THATS HIS PROBLEM...MOST PEOPLE WERE MORE INTERSTED IN THE NBA PLAYOFFS THAT NIGHT TO GO BACK AND VOTE SO WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?????HIS CHARM, OR WHATEVERE YOU WANT TO CALL IT WHEN HE GETS ALL THESE PEOPLE OUT TO HIS RALLY ARE JUST LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO OCCUPY THEIR TIME FOR THE DAY THEY ARE NOT THE PEOPLE WHO WILL GO VOTE DAYS LATER AND THATS WHY HE UNDERPOLES BY AN OUTREAGOUS AMOUT NOT TO MENTION ONCE THE WHITE PEOPLE GET TO THE POLES THEY END UP GOING CLINTON! HES DONE!! GOD GET IT THRU YOUR HEADS!!

BY THE WAY
THE SUPERDELEGATES ARE DECIDING RIGHT NOW WHO THEY WANT ON TOP OF THIS TICKET WHICH IS WHY THIS THING HASNT ENDED YET...THEYVE GOT REAL CONCERN NOW ABOUT OBAMA AND THAT IS WHY THIS RACE ISNT ENDING...THEY REALLY INSIDE KNOW HILLARY IS THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE ON THE TICKET BUT THEY CANT QUITE DO THAT YET BECAUSE IT WILL LOOK LIKE IT WAS STOLEN FROM OBAMA SO....THAT IS WHY WE ARE GOING A FEW MORE ROUNDS AND ONCE CLINTON WINS INDIANA WATCH WHAT WILL HAPPEN???U KNOW SHES GOING TO KICK BUTT IN KENTUCKY, WEST VIRGINIA, PUERTO RICO ECT...NO ONE CARES ABOUT NORTH CAROLINA SO HES DONE! SUPERS WILL GO WITH HER BECUASE THEY TOO KNOW TO GET TO THE WHITE HOUSE YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO WIN THE BIG STATES AND HES LOST THEM ALL BY JUST ABOUT 10 PTS TO CLINTON

HE CAN BE A BLACK MAN BUT.....
HE JUST CANT BE ASSOCIATED WITH REV WRIGHT AND TERROISTS ETC....THE WORLD DOESNT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HIM BEING BLACK BUT WE WONT TAKE A PRESIDENT THAT SITS UP IN A CHURCH FOR 20 YEARS LISTENING TO RACIST STUFF LIKE THAT....ALL IM SAYING IS WHEN I HEARD REV WRIGHT FOR THE FIRST TIME A MONTH AGO I KNEW OBAMA WAS DONE!! I KNOW HOW PEOPLE THINK IN THIS WORLD AND I KNEW IT!! WHEN HIS WIFE SAID HER WORDS, THEN FARRAKON, THEN AYERS, THEN THE PARIOTIC STUFF ITS JUST A HOST OF THINGS THAT HAVE RUINED HIS CHANCES....ITS NOT BECUASE HES BLACK HE HAS JUST GOT TO BE MORE PRESIDENTIAL AND ALL THOSE THINGS ARE SURE QUESTIONABLE WHEN IT COMES TO HIS JUDGEMENT...LIKE I SAID...WATCH AND MARK MY WORDS ITS OVER FOR OBAMA!

jimmyjoe
most of us stand opposed to the oblahma based on his liberal voting record and the socialism he advocates.

Critisizing him for his efforts to find his black identity as he himself claimed he did as the expense of finding out more about the other 90% of the americans who make up this country indicates very poor judgement.

His claim that he can be the great unifier when he has no record of working across the political aisle remains an empty claim.

After campaigning for some 15 months he has put no meat on the bones of his campaign of hope and change. If he truly is this great voice for a new direction for america then he newesd to do far more convincing. His elitist attitude and distain for the great unwashed in the hinderlands will tropuible what remains of his campaign.

As for bringing attention to the color of his skin pigment that is all we hear from the left as if no body knows or has figured out he is black.

Many of us stand opposed to his politics, his razor thin resume, his allegiance to the same groups the dims always cater to. That is the teachers, the unions and the trial lawyers as well as his plans for huge increases in spending and additional new taxes makes him nothing more than the same old voice coming from the dim party and nothing more than a status quo dimocrat offering nothing but a continuation of all the failed dim/socialist programs

chillers
historically, young people have not voted in large numbers so the results are not surprising. and your reference to the NBA as to why people didn't get out and vote is racist. Could it be that these people are politically apathetic even in a historical race? Could it be that many got turned off by the race and stayed home? Voter turnout was 60%. So what was the other 40% of white people doing? Would it be wrong for me to say that they were probably on dates with their cousins... maybe they were out buying white sheets for the GOP convention... that's a thought.

ITS NOT RACIST
IM BLACK (WELL BLACK AND ITALIAN) AND HAD ABOUT 20 PEOPLE OVER MY HOME THAT NIGHT WHO BY THE WAY WERE ALL BLACK AND NOT ONE OF THEM WENT TO VOTE EITHER SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WORKED THAT DAY AND WANTED TO GET HOME FOR THE NBA GAMES THAT NIGHT SO DONT TALK YOUR WORDS WHEN YOU DONT KNOW ABOUT THAT!! ALL IVE DONE IS HEAR FROM THE 100'S OF BLACK PEOPLE I KNOW OR IN MY LIFE ABOUT "OBAMA" AND HOW THEY WERE GOING TO SUPPORT HIM ETCC....ABOUT 5 OF ALL OF THEM ACTUALLY WENT AND VOTED!! WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?

dear jimmyshoe:
All those things are also true about white candidates. It's not a slam dunk, becoming President. Not for Obama or anybody.

I'm only saying something OBVIOUS-- to break through a man must offer more than the other candidate; and unfortunately when he's trying to do what no previous man has managed to do. The America voter must CARRY you, you don't break through because you look "hot."

When Jackie Robinson broke baseball's color barrier, he didn't phone it in. He went out & showed he was an extraordinary baseball player. If he hadn't shown the stuff, they'd have laughed him out of the leagues. Obama HASN'T got stuff of any extraordinary importance --EXCEPT jiving just like white politicians do, and having good looks.

If he had more, he'd be a cinch.

.


wildwest
And yet here we are talking about rap music and basketball. The fact is that it would be enough to go down the list and note Obama's weaknesses and the policies that you don't agree with. That's way of the world. But that's not what we're talking about. You have bigots on here referencing not wanting Obama to bring "the hood" to the White House. There is nothing about Obama that is hood. His referencing a rap song is nothing to discuss. Who cares. Hell, I'm a 70's guy so I'm partial to Curtis Mayfield and Stevie Wonder. He had John Cougar Mellencamp perform in Indiana, but no one is saying anything negative about that. Why is that?

Obama lives in Hyde Park, plays basketball (which to most here is equivelant to spear chucking)and I'll bet there aren't many rap songs on Obama's iPod.

So, when I see an article about Obama's plan on healthcare or on the economy generate this type of dialogue, only then will I believe these racist rants are merely in objection to his ideology and not the color of his skin.

chiller
that tells me you hang around a lot of politically inactive people who talk the talk but won't walk the walk... and you being black and italian doesn't mean you can't be a racist... you just probably have a little self-hatred thing going on and need some counseling.

YES I AGREE THAT YOUNG PEOPLE REGISTERED
BUT.......THAT IN ITSELF HELPED HILLARY TOO AND BY THE LOOKS OF THE UNDERPOLING ON OBAMA IT HURT HIM MORE! LISTEN TO WHAT IM SAYING.....OBAMA GETS YOUNG PEOPLE ALL OUT AT HIS RALLIES BUT BY NIGHTFALL OR NEXT DAY THEY ARE ALL INTO SOMETHING ELSE!! NOT ALL OF THEM BUT ALOT OF THE ONES THAT SHOWED UP FOR THE RALLY...THEN HE PERFORMS LIKE HE DID IN THE DEBATE AND EXPECTS ALL THOSE PEOPLE TO STILL BE IN AMAZEMENT OVER HIM? LOL! THEY GOT SICK WHEN THEY SAW THAT DEBATE..I KNOW WHEN I SAW IT I EVEN THOUGHT TO MYSELF "WOW"! I COULD HAVE DONE BETTER...ITS REAL SIMPLE ONCE AGAIN. OBAMA IS BLEEDING AND ITS NOT GOING TO STOP!! SORRY HE JUST IS TOO INEXPERIENCED IN THIS GAME AND EVERYTIME HE OPENS HIS MOUTH IT JUST GETS HIM INTO MORE PROBLEMS ALONG WITH THE KNIFE AROUND HIS NECK REV WRIGHT!!

I KNOW ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE
I HAD TEACHERS, LAWYERS, FACTORY WORKERS WHATEVER UP AT MY HOME AND I ALSO FALL INTO A 6 FIGURE JOB PERSON SO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY MAKES NO SENSE...HE IS DAMAGED NOW DONT YOU SEE THAT? ITS NOT JUST THE PLAYOFFS, OR KIDS BECAUSE THEY WANTED SOMEWHEE TO HANG OUT FOR THE DAY ITS WAY BEYOND THAT!! ITS CATHOLICS, WOMEN, WHITE MEN AND WOMEN, RURAL PEOPLE, WHITE COLLAR PEOPLE....MY GOD ALMOST HALF AMERICA IS NOW DONE WITH THIS MAN!!

dreadnaught
How can you see he is phoning it in? He has more votes than Hillary. Has raised more money that Hillary. Has won more states than Hillary. In fact, both of these candidates has done more than any black man or woman has ever done.

I don't call that phoning it in. And fact is that Jackie Robison played under some horrid conditions. It wasn't as if he was accepted by America with open arms. Maybe Barak and Hillary can be the start of something. Maybe 20 years from now it will be common to see women and minorities running for president and listening to a rap song won't scare you guys.

I'LL ADMIT ONE THING....
HILLARY LOSES INDIANA ITS OVER FOR HER...I'LL EVEN AGREE TO THAT! BUT THE FACT STILL REMAINS HE WONT WIN THE GEN. ELECTION AND THAT MY FREIND IS A FACT!

Jimmyshoe racist sees only black & white
Jimmyshoe,

First off, let's get one thing straight. Obama is not "black," he is both white AND black. And he isn't ethnic white like Italian or Mexican or Spanish or Arab; he's ANGLO white, of which I am not. And I don't relegate his entire existence to the hood and basketball because he is part black. You see, since you think like a racist (seeing people s "black" or "white") you would jump to that conclusion. As for as the hood, I know the hood and the varrio and that is why I can recognize his nuances of it, and frankly I've long since grown out of. But I still know it when I see it.

As far as spear-chucking (your words, not mine), My relatives from the boot are far darker skinned than Obama, not to mention my two brother-in-laws are black (negro). THEY are the ones that pointed out the fact that Obama plays basketball everyday and his campaign gives clips to the media saying how he's swished an 18-foot jumper - and that's supposed to mean he's up from his loss in PA; and how he's always clowing and the rap crap; they laugh at him for trying to act like a kid when he's a middle-aged man.

So my suggestion to you is to stop judging people just because of your limited experience in life, and stop seeing the world in 2 colors (black and white). Try hanging out in the streets of Los Angeles for a while lil' bro, maybe you'll learn something.

@ chiller
here's the fact... more young people are voting this year than in any election in the past. that is a good thing and it will be good for american politics in the long run because they are engaged sooner - even if they don't vote this time, they are making themselves a part of the process.

politicians stumble and obama is no different but when the dialogue gets into the crap i am reading here, then it has moved well beyond the realm of pure political discourse and strategy.

i'm all for debating the issues, but obama and hip hop is not an issue. it's simply another way of saying 'he's too black for us'. as a matter of fact, there is another post on TH that as 'is he one of us'. Coincidence? I think not.

@ chiller
half of america was never with obama. the other half wasn't sure he was viable until he won iowa. if hillary wins the nomination half of america will be against her. for the most part, he is still polling better than hillary and will win North Carolina, Indiana and Oregon.

Again, just because people make a lot of money and have degrees doesn't mean they can't be politically apathetic. Maybe they are turned off, but that's your crowd.

But note the reasons that people, as you say, are done... rap music, what his pastor said... but that is how politics is played and i accept that... and i also accept that most of the people on the site are bigots.

jimmy you got me wrong
Not phone in a primary or the Democrat nomination. He's got it practically sewn up.

But he won't win a national contest; because he won't offer anything in particular to make them vote. Many hillary-bots will stay away out of spite. Anti-terror voters will pick McCain. The hispanics will have a better choice on the right. Pro-Life will campaign against him and he'll plain lose in the south. The south will not be all Democrats in November. Nor all African Americans.

But Hollywood likes him. They back abortion on demand and hate George Bush.

.

YES BUT ITS TOO LATE FOR OBAMA NOW....
I AGREE WITH A FEW THINGS YOU SAID BUT THE PROBLEM IS ITS TOO LATE FOR HIM FROM HIS STUMBLES...DONT FORGET HE WENT INTO THIS ELECTION AS A "UNIFIER" AND "I AM NOT LIKE THEM" "IM DIFFERENT" PROBLEM IS HES NOT!! ALL HIS STUMBLES MAKE HIM OUT TO BE THE SAME OLE THING HES SAYING HE ISNT AND THEN ONCE AGAIN REV. WRIGHT.....REVE WRIGHT WAS THE WORST THING THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO HIM AND THAT WHOLE THING ALONE IS WHAT RUINS ALL THE WORDS HE SPEAKS....REMEMBER SOMETHING ELSE NOW TO....YOU CAN DISCOUNT ANY OF HIS 30 WINS UP UNTIL REV WRIGHT BECAUSE HAD THE COUNTRY KNOWN ALL THAT HILLARY WOULD BE THE NOMINEE ALREADY....SEE WHAT YOU ARE NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT IS IOWA AND ALL THOSE LITTLE STATES HE WON BEFORE THE REV WRIGHT THING WOULD NOT HAVE GONE LIKE THAT AND THATS WHAT THE SUPERDELEGATES ARE KNOWING NOW TOO ALONG WITH WHY CANT HE CLOSE THE DEAL AND HAS HE LOST THE BLUE COLLAR ETC...FRANKLY THEY WANT TO BE SURE THATS WHAT IT IS AND P.A. POLLS SHOWED THEM ENOUGH TO WAIT UNTIL INDIANA..IF INDIANA SHOWS THE SAME THING YOU WILL SEE THIS WHOLE ELCTION NOW START TURNING FOR HILLARY. IF SHE LOSES INDIANA AND THE POLLS DONT SHOW WHAT IMSAYING THEY WILL THEN ITS OVER FOR HIER!

monique
fact, i grew up in the streets of chicago and have lived in los angeles for 4 years. i've traveled to over 18 countries in my lifetime and have friends of many backgrounds. obama played basketball in college so it would make sense that he continues to play if he healthy enough to do so. how is that acting like a kid? what connection does that have to the hood?

i'm almost 40 and still play basketball, ride my bike 15 miles a day. is that acting young? is it trying to be hood if i play Nas every once in a while? be real about it... you're bringing up silly things and i'm just noting the racist comments as i read them... and yours was a racist comment.

@ dreadnaught
the race will be a difficult one i agree. but there are some things working in the dems favor and there will be some hillary voters that will support obama... not all but some. there are states that are considered red that obama can put into play. and of course there are some blue states that mccain can win.

my sense is that this primary process has damaged both hillary and obama and mccain will win in november. but had the race stayed clean, i think either hillary or obama would have crushed mccain.

Obama a too young middle aged man
Personally, for me, if Obama was a full white candidate and he spent his time using nuances and phrases from Kid Rock it would be just as repulsive. The fact he used to do coke is out for me.

If Obama were Italian or Scililan and was associated with Mafioso, and using terms they use, even though I am Italian, I would be just as repulsed; in fact because I am Italian I would more MORE repulsed. And so would the rest of America.

I liked Mike Huckabee, but I even got sick of seeing Mike Huckabee always playing his base and I am a musician. Okay to showcase it a few times but it got to where every time I saw him he was jamming.

It seems every time I see Obama he's clowning, making some reference to color of skin or his racist pastor or his racist wife practicing for the Jerry Springer show or using urban nuances to get his youth vote.

Look, I would have no problem jamming with the Huck or hanging with those that used to do dope, but that's okay for a gig or a bar BUT I DON'T WANT MY PRESIDENT DOING IT. And I don't want a loud mouthed quack chick as my 1st lady. Again, okay for me or my friends in a bar, but not in the white house.

OF COURSE THEY WERENT WITH OBAMA...
OBAMA WAS A NOBODY AT FIRST AND THAT COMMENT JUST SHOWS YOU RIGHT THERE THAT THE WORLD NEVER CARED WHETHER HES BLACK...THE ONLY REASON EVERYBODY NOW CARES ABOUT HIM BEING BLACK IS HE IS NOW LOOKING MORE LIKE A JESSE JACKSON TYPE. SEE AT FIRST OBAMA WAS COMING OUT LIKE HE WAS DIFFERENT BUT THE LONGER HE STAYED IN THE RACE AND PEOPLE WERE LIKING HIM (BELEIVING HIS WORDS OF BEING DIFFERENT) IS WHY HE STARTED DOING GOOD...THE PROBLEM LIKE I SAID IS HIS MISTAKES NOW MAKE PEOPLE NOT SEE HIM LIKE THAT PERSON THEY ALL EXCEPTED HE NOW IS NOT A CANDATE THEY WANT...AND YES BLACK NOW DOES HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT BECUASE THE KIND OF BLACK HES ASSOCIATED WITH NOW IS REV WRIGHT TYPE OF BLACK AND THATS RACIST TO WHITE AMERRICA!! ASSOCIATIONS COUNT TRUST THEY DO...KIDS DONT CARE ABOUT THAT BUT OVER 30 SURE DOES!

@ chiller
you are right. but as i mentioned before, the democrat party has shown some ugly things and it will pay for it in november. for the longest the GOP has been the gold standard for racist views. but as we see, there are just as many racist in the democrat party (those of us from chicago has always known this to be true) and this race revealed our ugly little secret.

REMEMBER HOWARD DEAN?
DID YOU KNOW HE HAD ALL THE YOUTH VOTE TOO? PROBLEM WAS ONCE THE ELECTION CAME KERRY TOOK THEM ALL....THE YOUTH IS NOT GOING TO BE THE ONES THAT DO IT FOR OBAMA!! WHAT IS GOING TO PROBABLY AND SADLY DO IT FOR OBAMA IS NOBODY KNEW OF REV WRIGHT BEFORE ALL THOSE PRIMARY CAME AND WENT!! HE WONT WIN THE GEN...NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM...HES ALSO A WIMPY TYPE MAN TOO!! REP...WILL KILL HIM TRUST IN THAT!!

OK SO ARE WE IN AGREEMENT?
MCCAIN WINS THIS THING HANDS DOWN? BECUASE WHETHER OR NOT HILLARY GETS THIS OR OBAMA I BELIEVE ITS OVER BUT I WOULDNT COUNT HILLARY OUT AS FAST AS OBAMA!! REMEMBER SHES A TOUGH ONE TO GO UP AGAINST AND SHES NOT AFRAID OF MCCAIN!! OH AND ALSO MORE BLACK PEOPLE WILL VOTE FOR HILLARY IF SHE GETS THE NOMINATION BUT MORE PEOPLE WONT VOTE FOR OBAMA IF HE GETS IT...SEE BLACK PEOPLE SAY THEY WILL VOTE MCCAIN IF SHE GETS IN BUT THATS BS SIMPLY BECAUSE MOST BLACK PEOPLE THINK REPUBLICANS ARE RICH AND AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE WHEN IN FACT ITS THE DEMOCRATS HURTING THE BLACK PEOPLE! AT LEAST THATS THE WAY I SEE IT!! WHICH OF COURSE EXPLAINS WHY MORE BLACK PEOPLE ARE DEMOCRATIC AND DEMS ARE THE ONES HURTING THEM MORE!

LETS FACE IT
HILLARY ROAD MAP TO THIS NOMINATION IS SO NARROW YOU CAN BARELY SEE THE LANE SHES DRIVING IN BUT....IF SHE MANAGES TO WIN INDIANA AND EVEN LOSING NORTH CAROLINA THAT LITTLE NARROW ROAD SHES ON OPENS UP INTO A 5 LANE HIGHWAY!! SO ACTUALLY INDIANA IS A DO OR DIE FOR BOTH OF THEM!!

this race will come down to
LEADERSHIP;

We have to elect us a LEADER. Talking is not leading; and Hillary's no Leader either

But Obama has never led a single thing. He's had the media flacks helping him till recently.

He is not leadership material, I'm afraid. An African American like Colin Powell repeat-- would have been leadership; no matter his policies on the Iraq War. Bush was a Leader; whatever they hate about that. He went in and led. As McCain will. He is a Leader who won't be jerked around. That's why they called him a maverick.

The Senate never figured how to make him knuckle under to them. He's strong on terror and on cutting taxes. He leads.

this race will come down to
LEADERSHIP;

We have to elect us a LEADER. Talking is not leading; and Hillary's no Leader either

But Obama has never led a single thing. He's had the media flacks helping him till recently.

He is not leadership material, I'm afraid. An African American like Colin Powell repeat-- would have been leadership; no matter his policies on the Iraq War. Bush was a Leader; whatever they hate about that. He went in and led. As McCain will. He is a Leader who won't be jerked around. That's why they called him a maverick.

The Senate never figured how to make him knuckle under to them. He's strong on terror and on cutting taxes. He leads.

jimmyshoe
Could you make a list of Republicans gold standard racist views for me ? I must have been asleep for twenty years ala Rip Van Winkle.Somehow I missed them.

please, rowly--desist
You mean well, Rowly.

But I don't see any comment of jimmyshoe's that makes him racist. I have to say it;

I feel in my heart for African Americans like him. All their lives they have been left out. Only a man made of stone wouldn't hope for his brother to get the chance somehow, to rise up like all Americans can, and reach the top.

That's why they've gloried in the boxing champs. The big-time entertainers like Poitier and Denzel. Just a share in the American dream. NOW-- an African American runs for President ! Would you feel pride ? Sure.

If I were Chinese and the leading candidate of a major party was Jackie Chan; I'm expected NOT to get excited?

My heart breaks for so many good black Americans; who feel so much resentment. They are such good people! It's not their fault Obama has a false bottom. They were HOPING. First they hoped in Jesse Jackson. But nothing. Now, nothing once again ? One of these days a real candidate will take the lead; who'll make them proud. Don't blame Jimmy if he's bitter. You would be too.



WHY DOES EVERYBODY HAVE TO GO 2 RACIST?
ITS REAL SIMPLE! OBAMA WAS COOL UNTIL HE STARTED LOOKING LIKE A JESSE JACKSON, AL SHARPTON TYPE! NOW THAT HE IS LOOKING LIKE BOTH OF THEM IS WHY HE IS BLEEDING AND 911 CAN NO LONGER SAVE HIS LIFE! STOP TALKING ALL THIS RACIST STUFF...WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST WHEN THEY THINK JESSE JACKSON OR AL SHARPTON ARE TRYING TO GET THE WHITE HOUSE!! DO U BLAME THEM! SHUT UP WITH THAT STUFF...ITS OBAMAS FAULT HES NOT IN THAT CATAGORY!! YOU SLEEP WITH SATAN YOU GOT TO LICK HIS U KNOW WHAT!! THATS WHAT OBAMA DID! USED BLACK PEOPLE TO GET SOMETHING AND NOW THEY HAVE HIM BY THE BALLZ

IM BAFFLED AT HOW U ALL THINK!
ITS JUST REAL SIMPLE TO ME...ONCE REV WRIGHT APPEARED AND OBAMA SPENT 20 YEARS IN THAT CHURCH IT WAS REAL CLEAR WHAT THIS MAN WAS ABOUT!! HE AINT NO BETTER THEN REV WRIGHT INFACT HES THE SAME OLE THING HE SAYS HE AINT!! HE GOT CAUGHT AND CANT LET THEM GO CUZ IF HE DOES THAT HES DONE IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY!! HE PLAYED WITH FIRE AND NOW HES GETTING BURNED!! HES A SORRY NOMINEE..HE ACTS 10 YEARS YOUNGER THEN HE REALLY IS BECUASE HES GOING THRU A MIDLIFE CRISES TRYING TO HANG ON THE BASKETBALL COURT LIKE HES 30! THAT MAN IS ALMOST 50 BUT STILL WANTS TO BE DOWN WITH THE HOMIES!! HES AN IDIOT!

atheling
I once read someone's description of rap:

"A rhyming dictionary fed into a popcorn machine shoved up a guard dog's a**".

Sounds about right.

Hip Hop vs Rap
Here's the thing: there's a difference between the mainstream rap on most Urban/contemporary radio stations, and real hip-hop with a positive message.

The misogynistic, materialistic crap fed to us by 50 Cent, Eminem, The Game, and others of their ilk are not hip hop.

Check out Jurassic Five, The Perceptionists, Mos Def, Common, and others like them, to see what real hip hop is like.

Bill Cosby is not the only black man who realizes the problems in the African American community. To focus on the negatives is to focus solely on the mainstream product, which would be like focusing solely on Rush Limbaugh and saying all conservatives think like him. Is that the case? I think not.

Do some research and take the leap before you generalize, folks.

peace
Banks from Georgia

Peace, Banks, peace


I only dared once today; saying

Hip hop may get your interest. It may be truly horrid, or in some ways OK. It might be bought by white aficionados or blacks, and the "singers" make millions.

All of this is true, perhaps. But there isn't any music.

We hear some word-play and some electro-pop rhythm. The agony of it all is pure low-brow narcissistic preening and parading in the video-- without any harmonic value or acoustic beauty or composition. There's no tension/release, build-up to a climax or change of keys. Most of the sounds are forgotten overnight.

I wouldn't doubt it can't even be set in a score by trained musicians, being altogether improvised. NOT MUSIC under any circumstances. Popcorn for the mind, IMHO /

Here's some real hip hop:

Banks from Georgia and others who have made belittling, condescending and patronizing remarks think we ignorant conservative fools should be researching the positive messages of "real hip hop" like this:

Excerpt from "Mr. Niggà" by Mos Def:

"They gotta send it to the back to make sure the shít is real Mr Niggà, Niggà Niggà
Niggà Niggà.. Niggà

You can laugh and criticize Michael Jackson if you wanna
Woody Allen, molested and married his step-daughter
Same press kickin dirt on Michael's name
Show Woody and Soon-Yi at the playoff game, holdin hands
Sit back and just bug, think about that
Would he get that type of dap if his name was Woody Black?
O.J. found innocent by a jury of his peers
And they been fúckin with that Niggà for last five years
Is it fair, is it equal, is it just, is it right?
Do you do the same shít when the defendent face is white?
If white boys doin it, well, it's success
When I start doin, well, it's suspect
Don't hate me, my folks is poor, I just got money
America's five centuries deep in cotton money
You see a lot of brothers caked up, yo straight up
It's new, y'all livin off of slave traders paper
But I'm a live though, yo I'm a live though
I'm puttin up the big swing for my kids yo
Got my mom the fat water-front crib yo
I'm a get her them pretty bay windows
I'm a cop a nice home to provide in
A safe environment for seeds to reside in
A fresh whip for my whole family to ride in
And if I'm still Mr Niggà, I won't find it suprisin"

What do you ignorant conservative fools say about "real hip hop" now that you have done your research?

Obama Hop
Brent, what are you doing? Why are you indicting a "true cultural African American art form"? Piimps and Hoes have an American legacy throughout history.
I can't believe I just said that, I'm sounding like Michael Eric Dyson or the "great actor" Cornell West.
Brent be careful here, you'll be percieved as racist, because the world of Hip-Hop is owned and run by African Americans and since you've never indicted rock-n-roll your proverbial "sheets" are showing.
Remember you're talking about an "true cultural African American art form" like "Kwanzaa" so I say to you sir, you saw what happened to Imus, you could be next.


P.S. More sarcasm forthcoming...

Obama Hop
Brent, what are you doing? Why are you indicting a "true cultural African American art form"? Piimps and Hoes have an American legacy throughout history.
I can't believe I just said that, I'm sounding like Michael Eric Dyson or the "great actor" Cornell West.
Brent be careful here, you'll be percieved as racist, because the world of Hip-Hop is owned and run by African Americans and since you've never indicted rock-n-roll your proverbial "sheets" are showing.
Remember you're talking about an "true cultural African American art form" like "Kwanzaa" so I say to you sir, you saw what happened to Imus, you could be next.


P.S. More sarcasm forthcoming...

dreadnaught
Not that I feel I owe you a reply,but here it is...I said NOTHING about jimmyshoe being a racist.Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

Go back and read his posts at 6:18 and 6:25.He called whites 'racist bigots' more than once. I asked him to name some white 'racist bigots'.Of course,he did not.I didn't expect him to.

Maybe you can help him name some white 'racist bigots'.If you can't...then YOU DESIST and you don't'mean well'.You are just being obnoxious.I,also, do not need your condescending attitude and please give it to someone who does.

ex-Wyomingite
Nice.

ex-Wyomingite
Don't forget, they will all be hearing impaired and be wearing hearing aids.The entertainment industry,who showcases this trash,called music,is guilty of noise pollution.

The noise,called music,accompanies these young people everywhere they go.Some have their pants waists down around their buttocks,jockey shorts shining,needing one hand to keep the pants from falling down and the other grabbing at their crotch.

Your post was good prose,worthy of praise.I give you that.


Thanks, ex-Wyomingite
Yo, ex-Wyomingite, excellent commentary. You are absolutely correct about this tasteless and no talent rap music. As I near 70 I can still "shuffle" to those Golden Oldies with happy memories. I doubt a 70 year old hip-hopper will enjoy their music when the time comes. Of course, many of them will not live to 70 and obviously their memories, if any survive, will not be happy!

deear rowly,
My Dear Rowly,

Not arguing, but; reading comprehension means Notice;

I say Please, Rowly. Desist, meaning, give the fellow a break. I'm polite; asking please. That was so you wouldn't take offense. But it wasn't enough. You are offended.

Yeah, I seem to say you're accusing jimmyshoes of a racist attitude (it can be construed so). I'm sorry. That's not why I defended him, though. I merely felt his emotions on the page. But then again. That is MY problem, not yours. I only ask everybody; be more understanding.



Dread Dear
I believe I know what desist means.You can construe anything you like about what I asked jimmyshoe.He said white folks were racist bigots.I asked for an example.Haven't gotten an abswer from him yet...still waiting.

If he cannot stand the heat on this thread,maybe he should go to another more tame one.I really am tired of folks throwing out racial accusations without the proof to back it up.That's all.

You are to be commended for speaking up for him,but don't talk down to me in order to do it.

Music died
when it bacame a mass spectator sport, instead of something one does with grace and beauty in the company of like friends for the love of it.

Back to the Medieval, Renaissance, and Baroque styles. The closest thing today to that spirit and art is certain Bluegrass and improvizational Jazz. All the rest (excepting _some_ new church music) is mass-market pandering to the lowest common denominator, which appears to be going lower all the time.

you must understand, rowly
You are reasonable enough for the sake of argument. Who'd care to dispute the fact that almost all minorities are afflicted with a paranoid victim complex. Not only African Americans, who are after all; the most fortunate of all people of color to be living free today in this great country. No Chicago black would dream of trading places with a citizen of Lagos or Senegal. He's an American.

And that's why reasonably he aspires to be just as eligible to be President, if God willed it. But he feels deprived even today.

Getting back to your premise; we aren't racists in this thread. But who would dare say there aren't any white racists, in places Jim's people have been over this last decade or two?

We have many racists in America. They live here among us. SOME wouldn't give a black man a break under ANY circumstances and we all know it. I've met some and they're proud of being white; whereas they detest black folks --for their race. It seems that's never going to end. But of course, we also number many, countless white Americans who have learned the meaning of racial injustice. I know I have.

dreadnaught
There are probably as many black racists as there are white racists.I only asked him for an example of a white racist bigot...still waiting.


That's always debatable, but:

Rowly,

You and I are Christians and this is a matter of human beings living together. I'm not talking down to you, but hoping to reach an agreement.

Jesus Christ gave us a commandment; white man or black: "Love one another as I have loved you."

There's a lot to love in the white community; of which we're part. There's a lot to love about black men, women and children. Let's not give in to the wrong emotions; only our love.

dreadnaught
I still believe most of what is called racist is really predjudice.

yes; and I understand
That is 100% so. The term racism in America has no real meaning. That's why there's an uproar over many relatively natural things which shouldn't even matter. The reason being false pride. For instance; I see the well-educated poster Ralph Ellison yeterday; declaring a view held by many blacks since the 60's

That Gershwin's opera is not liked by African Americans. Or The Song of the South, an old Disney classic. Why? Because they see those works as demeaning to ---Present day Black Americans___

That is black racism and misunderstanding. Neither of those works were popular because Americans looked down on the black man. They're to the contrary, meant in only the BEST way; showing the beauty of soul in "negroes" of that time and place. But Black Pride objects. They seem to think, "White man can't ever love us."

My own knowledge of the situation is, racism in such terms is trivial. It's racial injustice HUGE EMPHASIS --we have to eliminate, and from our HEARTS, as well as the "level playing-field." Nobody can really be "color-blind." That's Pie in the Sky. But we can be fair. We can love one another and be happy with one another. It's the devil who incites hatred.

We're followers of Jesus Christ. Not color-blind. THAT is unimportant compared to love.

All Rich Rappers can thank...
All Rich Rappers can thank us young white teens. B/c after 600,000 copies, it's all white people that buy these albums. So if we are the ones buying it arent we the ones encouraging it also?

Dear Matty,
Most of the western world's teeanagers are sons and daughters of the curious 60's & 70's generation once named after Woodstock.

It isn't surprising most of them have a lot to learn, and not only about music. Half of them know nothing even about musical instruments. If you take away the electric guitar and drums' and microphones,

They couldn't tell you anything about music. NOTHING. Since they do most of the buying and downloading, just about any pretense of music-making would have to sell. (That buying public knows all there is to know about getting HIGH, I assure you.)

The other large market consists of that elder group who has sold their collective soul to Rock 'n Roll or country western. I myself like to shop for classical or instrumental music on eBay. I've found many fantastic bargains. Remember, my "musical horizon" has been expanding since the 1940's. By now, I can only pity those whose own horizon is boxed in by rap artists. Like good old Mr.T, "I pity the fool." (Fools, ?)

good and bad at the same time
I like all music well maybe not classical,but everything else. I love folk. Woody Guthire and Pete Seeger I dont like the way the men think way to left for me after all it is the unions that made all jobs go over seas they complianed about greed and they were just as greedy as the companys they tried to screw.My point is you can like the music and hate the music makers, the same goes for rap,I like the music but hate some of the makers white or black or green.Whenever you use the music for a soapbox to blather from it just brings down the music.So I listen but I block out the words.Maybe Obama does what I do and skips the words,who knows.He's got a bunch of other problems that are realy bad for him. He's got a long haul for my vote!!
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