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Friday, March 21, 2008
Brent Bozell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Does Profanity Reign Supreme?
by Brent Bozell
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The Supreme Court has taken up the case of FCC vs. Fox Television Stations, the bizarre case in which Fox and other broadcast TV networks have argued that "fleeting" profanities are mere accidents that should not be punished with fines. While it's laudable that the nation's top court would take up the matter, it's beyond outrageous that what Hollywood really wants -- and, in a cowardly way, is refusing to declare publicly -- is the "right" to bombard your living room, and your children, with obscenities.

The high court is taking up a decision last summer by the Manhattan-based Second Circuit Court of Appeals that sided with Hollywood and told the Federal Communications Commission that their profanity rules were "arbitrary and capricious." Solicitor General Paul Clement argued persuasively to the Supreme Court that the FCC has "hundreds of thousands of complaints" from outraged citizens regarding the broadcast of expletives. Clement said it left the agency "accountable for the coarsening of the airwaves while simultaneously denying it effective tools to address the problem."

For their part, Hollywood's paladins of permissiveness are claiming to be delighted that the Supreme Court is taking the case. In a statement, Fox Television said it was happy to have "the opportunity to argue that the FCC's expanded enforcement of the indecency law is unconstitutional in today's diverse media marketplace where parents have access to a variety of tools to monitor their children's television viewing."

They will continue to argue that the concept of obscenity has been abolished by the V-chip, an intellectually dishonest position if ever there was one. Never mind that, as has been proven numerous times already, the V-chip is a useless proposition when it depends on an industry-run ratings system that is at best flawed and at worst deliberately cooked, oftentimes refusing to include the right content descriptors to make the much-ignored device actually do its job. But even if the V-chip worked to perfection, it would still be useless in catching fleeting profanities of the unscripted sort. Hollywood knows this, just as Hollywood knows that if it wanted to avoid the problem altogether, it would simply employ a delay switch to bleep out unscripted obscenities.

The point is: Hollywood wants to air them. To them, it's all a waste of money to spare the benighted rabble in the little villages who haven't learned to stop worrying and love the F-bomb.

Out in America, voters still have the common sense to believe that profanities aren't the kind of speech that you wave the flag over, as if "fleeting" profanity were a cause as American as apple pie. Most Americans think that the quality of entertainment is in steep decline. An AP/Ipsos poll last summer asked if TV shows in general were getting better or worse, and only 22 percent said "better," while 62 percent picked "worse." Politicians in Washington ought to find defending children from televised profanity to be the safest issue imaginable.

It's common sense to suggest that all outbursts of profanity could be construed as "fleeting" in nature. It doesn't matter whether the cursing was unscripted (rock star Bono's Golden Globe victory speech) or scripted (Nicole Richie swearing at the Billboard Music Awards show on Fox right after her Fox "Simple Life" co-star Paris Hilton said "Watch the bad language.") In both cases, dropping an F- or S-bomb is "fleeting."

But what if that curse word is dropped twice? Isn't that two fleeting obscenities? If it's dropped 28 times, that makes it 28 separate, "fleeting" curses as well. How, technically, is a curse word not defined as fleeting?

Let us be very clear here. The networks are not seeking legal protection from a single profanity. They are seeking the courts to recognize the inalienable right to swear like a sailor on TV at any time.

Even the titans of classic family entertainment, like Disney, have signed on to the anything-goes argument for airing profanity. At a recent shareholders meeting, Disney President and CEO Robert Iger declared Disney joined the pro-vulgarity coalition "because we believe it is our right to produce and distribute different kinds of products without interference from the federal government."

But wait: The same Robert Iger just last summer announced that Disney would bow to members of Congress and drop all smoking scenes from its family films and discourage such scenes in its Touchstone and Miramax pictures. Why would those requests for less smoking be a reasonable and admirable cause worth endorsing, but pleas for less swearing are an unbearable oppression?

Hollywood wouldn't need "interference" from Washington if they would simply do what they all know is the right thing. They know it's wrong to encourage and glamorize smoking for young and impressionable children. Isn't the logic of preventing the air pollution of unnecessary profanity just as much an open-and-shut case?

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About The Author
Founder and President of the Media Research Center, Brent Bozell runs the largest media watchdog organization in America.
 
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I Do Care for Children
-- but I care for MY children --

That's why certain channels are blocked. I know how my channel blocker works, and I work it.

For those of you who can't or won't monitor your children;

who can't or won't figure out the V-chip or channel blocking;

who can't or won't accept the fact that kids in Middle School curse more than what's on TV;

-- do your local Salvation Army a favor and give them all of your TV's.

Two sided coin
On the one hand, I tend to agree with the points that (a) audio/video entertainment has diminished in quality over the years (More and more often, franchise movies (Sequels, Prequels, movies based on popular TV shows, etc.) are the only ones worth watching, and they're lucky if one new TV show is any good.); (b) more cursing in entertainment is necessarily bad because, in many cases, it's already too much, and it's mainly gratuitous; (c) that Hollywood does not want to police itself or be policed in any way, not governmentally, not technologically, and not parentally. They want their message to get out to the young and impressionable so that they can see the "Desperate Housewives" version of how people ought to live.

On the other hand, I wonder if Brett isn't overreacting a bit. Most of the live broadcasts we're talking about here are awards shows. To be offended by language, don't people actually have to WATCH them?

gotta love it
This is one of the reasons I truly love FOX. Here they are on one hand fighting for “the "right" to bombard your living room, and your children, with obscenities"; and on the other hand leading the way in being the most conservative news agency on air.


7Sticks
Since you have no interest in children you have no part of the future.

Since you have no part of the future your input into determining how the future of humanity shall be treated has little validity.

When you opt out of something you also opt out on influencing matters concerning it.

Nanny state-ism
I like to believe that I am sufficiently mature to decide what behavior is tolerable in my home. Just as I would eject a guest who insisted on spewing vulgarity in front of my children, so would I eject a TV program which insisted on so doing. I do not need the government to do this for me; it is my job as a responsible adult, and I have the tools to do it. I'm a little disturbed that anyone, conservative or liberal, thinks that his or her fellow adults should cede this responsibility to the government.

Unca Alby,
You are missing the point.

The point is not so much the shows that any sensible and responsible parent KNOWS should be avoided. The point is the stealth attacks during sports events and other programing, especially live events, which are advertised as family-friendly events or aired during the family programing hours.

Do you really think that all parents who are concerned with raising their children in a responsible way so as to produce decent human beings ready to carry the future of civilization rather than barbarism should raise their kids in a complete media blackout? What right do those spoiled-brat celebrities and athletes have to impose that sort of isolation on anyone who doesn't subscribe to their self-proclaimed royal exemption from the rules which apply to everyone else?

It makes a lot more sense for the decent, civilized people who understand that society cannot function without a firm understanding of the rules -- which are the same for everyone whether ditch-digger or mega-star -- in effect in various situations to slap down those brats and puncture their inflated egos so that they are motivated to become civilized people.

As I've said before,

I don't take my kids into bar rooms. I have the right to expect that bar room language will not invade my living room.

I am obeying the rules of not putting my kids into situations where profanity can be expected. The celebrities, athletes, and networks to need to hold up their end of the civilization bargain and if they can't be responsible because its right they need to pay the price so as to learn better.

F**lishness
I don't get what all the fuss is about. People seem to think that the Teletubbies and Big Bird are going to start throwing out f---s and s---s, even though content aimed directly at children would still be punished. The "fleeting expletive" rule is meant to apply to (mostly live) programming where a certain amount of profanity and sexual content is already expected (like awards shows), shows where the use of profanity cannot be controlled (shows with a live--hence unpredictable--audience), or where the profanity is inadvertent but not inappropriate (does anyone want to go back and fine ABC, CBS, and ABC for airing the word "s---" multiple times on 9/11?).

The BBC has a similar policy, and it works marvelously for them. Of course, the BBC also has a sensible watershed rule that actually allows shows with adult language and adult themes on the air.

As a final point, I would say that the average overall quality of television is staying the same. What's happening is that bad TV is getting worse (think reality), but good TV is getting better (a trend that started with the West Wing, and includes The Office, Lost, Arrested Development, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, etc.).

Gee...
I just love it when people ask for more government control over my life. I really do.

Mr. Bozell: if you don't like the show, TURN THE CHANNEL. If you think you might not want your kids to see it, DON'T LET THEM WATCH IT. Or maybe even tape it, watch it, and then decide. Whatever, but keep the government out of MY living room.

Jeeves - Nanny state-ism
Ditto.

As much as I do not like the profanity on television I still do not want more government regulations. Government regulations on leisure past times, which is what television is, is just one more control we give the government. Personally, because of program subject matter, I chose years ago to not have television reception in my home. No kids live at home anymore but I still choose to not have any of it available in my home. Maybe if enough people who claim to be offended and complain actually put their money where their mouth is there'd be changes. Cancel your dish, cancel your cable and write them to explain why. If you do not tell them they do not know. If enough people did it they'd get the idea. Then, just maybe, they could pressure the makers of the programs to make their changes. Just a thought. Honestly, I'd have cable or satellite if I could choose only the four channels I want. The companies won't do that so I exercise my right to not have any.

number44, excuse me???
number44 lists the following as examples of "good TV":

West Wing
The Office
Lost
Arrested Development
It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

Puhleeze!!

Bozell hit the nail on the head. Hollywood has become a creative vacuum and is seeking to insert profanity into scripts as a way to do something "fresh" and "new".

Quality
There has actually been a huge resurgence of quality TV. This was led by all the HBO premium series, such as the Sopranos, Deadwood, Carnival, Curb Your Enthusiasm, the Wire etc. Other networks followed, so we have Weeds, Breaking Bad, Dexter, Blood Ties, Torchwood, Life on Mars, etc. This is not to mention the tremendously high quality comedy shows like the Colbert Report and the Daily Show.

TV's quality continues to impress.

But, once again, I ask conservatives types to explain why they oppose the free market so vigorously. Sex and vulgarity are common on TV because they sell. Do you have a problem with the free market?

Alaska
I'm not saying everyone has to like the same things, but care to throw a little more detail into your analysis?

Or does "Puhleeze!" pass for substantive refutation these days?

Great Quotes
President Boyd K. Packer has said, "The reality of profanity does not argue for the toleration of it"

President Spencer W. Kimball stated:
"Profanity is the effort of a feeble brain to express itself forcibly" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1974, p. 7).

"In the hospital one day I was wheeled out of the operating room by an attendant who stumbled, and there issued from his angry lips vicious cursing
with a combination of the names of the Savior. Even half-conscious, I recoiled and implored: "Please! Please! That is my Lord whose names you
revile." There was a deathly silence, then a subdued voice whispered, "I am sorry." --Spencer W. Kimball, "President Kimball Speaks Out on Profanity," Ensign, Feb. 1981, 3

Sticks, the back allies for you
The7Sticks writes: Friday, March, 21, 2008 12:05 AM
Hee Hee Hee Hee Hee...
Hee Hee Hee. This has to be some of the funniest comic bits I've read in a long time.

"Isn’t the logic of preventing the air pollution of unnecessary profanity just as much an open-and-shut case?" *snickering* Profanity is pollution? What's next, the polar ice caps are going to melt because of farting?

"...who haven’t learned to stop worrying and love the F-bomb." (Hey, that's Kubrick's, not yours.)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't care for children, whether they be my relatives or someone else's. I know I'm not the only one. Likewise, I don't care if they end up hearing the word "f---" or "s---", which have been shamefully replaced through political corectness by, ughh, "F-bomb" and "S-bomb". What is this, a bomb-fallout drill?

There are plenty of us who don't particularly care for children. Does that make us bad people because we don't care? I'd like to think not because I try to help out in my community, just not in that particular venue. All we ask is that you let the majority of us who like our trash to let us be in peace. Your trash is our treasure, and we want to keep it that way.
__________________________________________

Sticks, you who don't care for children and want trash are in the minority: So have your trash but you will have to go get it in back allies like the way it used to be.

Cal, you don't know Christians
Caligula writes: Friday, March, 21, 2008 5:39 AM
How I learned to love the F-bomb
"Hollywood really wants -- and, in a cowardly way, is refusing to declare publicly -- is the "right" to bombard your living room, and your children, with obscenities."

Yes, I am sure they are secretly meeting to plot how to "bombard" you with "F bombs."

This is just so silly! More cries from the Christian sheeple for the Nanny State and Big Government to do the parenting of their children.
______________________________________________

No, this is not more cries from Christians for the nanny state and big government to act in place of the parents of our children: If you think that, then you don't know Christians at all. Why would we want an entity that has proven itself incompetent over and over to raise our children in a secularist, humanist way?

What we want is to be able to go to a public place, meaning in this case television, and have no surprises, have nothing to explain to our innocent children. It's that simple.

The same goes for the homosexual public flaunting of their perversions. Homosexuals want perversions? Flaunt it in private.

You people who want trash, go get it in the back allies.

Mother of 4 -- Let Me Ask You --
Just how important is it for you watch sports entertainment?

I mean, come on, honestly.

"Do you really think that all parents who are concerned with raising their children [...] should raise their kids in a complete media blackout?"

In a word -- yes.

In a few extra words: you have to prioritize. You have to decide what's more important to you.

Do you really think watching live sports and news is so hugely important that you need to have Government Storm Troopers manning the Bleep-Button?

Come on.



"What right do those spoiled-brat celebrities and athletes have to impose that sort of isolation on anyone who doesn't subscribe to their self-proclaimed royal exemption from the rules which apply to everyone else?"

First off -- YOU are the one doing the imposing. You're saying that, to avoid offending YOUR sense of morality, THEY should be tied up and hamstrung. THEY are not forcing anything on YOU.

You do NOT have to watch. End of story.

Secondly -- WHAT rules? Last I heard, we had freedom of speech in this country, and that included to freedom to offend somebody. Did somebody repeal the First Amendment without telling me?

Thirdly -- isolation is YOUR choice. Just like it's YOUR choice not to take your kids into a tavern. Nobody ever said that TV was supposed to follow YOUR definition of "Family Friendly."

I'm serious. You have to prioritize. Just how badly do you want to watch live sports on TV? If it's that important to you that you can't get rid of the TV, maybe you shouldn't have kids.

Luis - - -
"What we want is to be able to go to a public place, meaning in this case television, and have no surprises, have nothing to explain to our innocent children. It's that simple."

Well, sorry, you can't. Yes, it is that simple.

It's very clear -- the public has spoken.



"You people who want trash, go get it in the back allies."

Well, this IS supposed to be a democracy, yes? No? Well -- we happen to outnumber you, by wide margins.

SO ---

you people who DON'T want trash, YOU go back to YOUR back allies -- and -- not -- get it --


eesh. There's no good way to say that!

Luis -- a clarification --
"Sticks, you who don't care for children and want trash are in the minority:"

Not caring for children *is* a minority opinion. But I think Sticks is being sarcastic anyway.

I'm sorry though, the rest of your posting is incorrect. It is well-known that sleaze attracts viewers. The people who want to watch what you call "trash" happen to outnumber you.

This is proven by the ratings. Networks and advertisers work very hard to make sure that what they produce is watched by the maximal numbers of people. They do not deliberately offend potential buyers. That's counter-productive.

But if they happen to offend a small minority, while selling to a larger majority, well, that's an acceptable loss. Especially considering, despite all the whining and complaining, most of you WON'T get rid of your TV.

You might be offended, but you'll watch it anyway. The entertainment people can't lose.

most explosive racial comment ?
Here's the ultimate in politically incorrect speech; you're going to hear it here.

I'm a child of the 1940's, 50's; who remembers a youth uncontaminated by deliberate, proliferated and insouciant FILTH. I suspect Brent Bozell will identify with me. It was uncommon in those days to hear an obscenity in public. If you heard something in school it was truly "fleeting," in a locker room or between two kids who hated each other.

But that era ended after the late 50's and into the Civil Rights years.

Of course, we all had the right negative take on Lennie Bruce. Or others who didn't fit the mold in a civilized society.

But what sparked all the gross vulgarity and widespread use of the F-bombs and other vile exprssions was: the desegragation of our schools. We became inured to the filth; always coming at us from the usual suspects: black students; the more insolent and foolish ones.



All the libertarian-on-speech folks
... keep in mind that the reason "moral programming" folks have recourse to the federal government is the same reason everyone else does: because the feds allocate the broadcast 'waves (of whatever variety), and set the parameters within which government-sanctioned broadcast and programming monopolies operate.

Yes, Mother of 4 damn well should have the option of contracting for programming, and ONLY programming, that she deems appropriate for her children. She shouldn't have to exclude TV entirely from her home because other people demand the "right" to utter profanities. And like everyone else, she should have to -- and have the OPTION to -- pay for that outcome.

But we don't have this option. Left to the MARKET, broadcasters would be forced to offer profanity-free QUALITY programming for the many, many viewers whose custom they could not attract without it. But we aren't left to the market. It's federal control of the apparatus that puts people in the position of demanding EITHER Absolut Profanity or none. It's not an agenda peculiar to the "moral right."

One already has to pay a premium to receive porn channels with cable or DTV service. I am tickled pink that I have the choice to opt out of that form of "entertainment." There is no reason why the government should get to decide what is and is not appropriate for viewing in people's homes. If you want profanity, you should have to pay for the Profanity Package, while other households will pay for the Family Viewing Package. Let's get over the moral high horse about protecting free speech.

Luis
What are you doing here? There’s no homosexuality involved. When you disappear I always worry. I know how you get to thinking about “A 'male' homosexual sticking his pen!s in the anus of another 'male' homosexual is not natural, or getting a pen!s stuck in the rear end of a homosexual 'male'. Then I have to scan the news for a murder/suicide involving a gay, male prostitute and his john.

So what’s the story now, you fake, you sham, you liar? When are you ever going to produce a single shred of support for any of your outrageous claims? When is a single person on this conservative web site ever going to offer you the least amount of support?

Come on you coward. Why don’t you stand up to me and prove me wrong?

(For those of you unfamiliar, the quote is from Luis. It is his most popular.)

am I a racist ?
I do not mean this is a group phenomenon. --It's not universal. Of course there were plenty of good, quiet black children in our midst. We had hundreds of thousands, however-- who grossed out civilization; we know they did. Bad apples always predominate, they stick out. One common trait was, (and still is today) the vulgar few were louder and less inclined to care who heard them.

In front of GIRLS ? "No problem." The filthier the better. It was cheeky to say, "mother-f---er ! You became COOL, Man!!

Then the white kids, who played on the field with these cretins, started to get in on the schtick. Soon EVERYBODY talked trash. Later on, it became the mark of "liberated women," in other words TRAMPS who slept around. When the 1960's dawned, all hell was breaking loose. By then, pornography and dirty movies were largely unavoidable.

It all started when the black ghetto kids became socially acceptable. They brought their cultural language with them to school.

Adolescents are always the most impressionable. Did I-- ever use filthy language ? OK, I'll confess; I did. For a long time.

A day finally came when I realized I was offending God. My words were betraying me; I had become a slave to that sin. Some people don't believe obscenity is a sin. I do.

Silly old chauvinist --I gave up dirty language. Today I'll rant with the best of them. But not in profane language. I became a real dinosaur, it seems. Now I'll likely be accused of racism and everything vile in the world by the elite.

Today the ELITE see only two things out of all human experience TWO; which are totally reprehensible. One is child abuse. The other is racism. Everything else can be ignored and tolerated in America. I know and God knows I'm guilty of neither. But today I've been politically incorrect; absolutely.

racially insensitive ?
I do not mean this is a group phenomenon. --It's not universal. Of course there were plenty of good, quiet black children in our midst. We had hundreds of thousands, however-- who grossed out civilization; we know they did. Bad apples always predominate, they stick out. One common trait was, (and still is today) the vulgar few were louder and less inclined to care who heard them.

In front of GIRLS ? "No problem." The filthier the better. It was cheeky to say, "mother-f---er ! You became COOL, Man!!

Then the white kids, who played on the field with these cretins, started to get in on the schtick. Soon EVERYBODY talked trash. Later on, it became the mark of "liberated women," in other words TRAMPS who slept around. When the 1960's dawned, all hell was breaking loose. By then, pornography and dirty movies were largely unavoidable.

It all started when the black ghetto kids became socially acceptable. They brought their cultural language with them to school.

Adolescents are always the most impressionable. Did I-- ever use filthy language ? OK, I'll confess; I did. For a long time.

A day finally came when I realized I was offending God. My words were betraying me; I had become a slave to that sin. Some people don't believe obscenity is a sin. I do.

Silly old chauvinist --I gave up dirty language. Today I'll rant with the best of them. But not in profane language. I became a real dinosaur, it seems. Now I'll likely be accused of racism and everything vile in the world by the elite.

Today the ELITE see only two things out of all human experience TWO; which are totally reprehensible. One is child abuse. The other is racism. Everything else can be ignored and tolerated in America. I know and God knows I'm guilty of neither. But today I've been politically incorrect; absolutely.

dreadnaught
Was it the black kids that taught you the filthy language?

Bozell, a repellent hygienist
L. Brent Bozell III, as I have written before and shall write again here, is not a serious critic. He is a moral hygienist. I can imagine him and his employees at the MRC watching TV shows while wearing white lab coats, masks, and sterile rubber gloves. Obsessed with rooting out "cultural pollution" from everyday life, he reveals an ignorance that at once is frightening and astonishing.

Why does anyone take this censorious moron seriously? And exactly what does levying heavy fines on TV networks have to do with Christianity? Conservatism would be better off without this obsessive nerd.

Dear Mike:
It wasn't my parents. Not my good friends or family.

It was first, as I explained, in schoolyards and on the football grid; baseball diamond. Contact with tough kids; many of them NOT colored. Quite a few blacks. It doesn't mean I would now hate them. But YEAH, they shocked me.

And, during high school many leaders on the field were black ghetto kids; they always excelled. In the halls, they were emulated by all the others. The white guys as well. You always try in school, to be the tough, or the grown-up one. Otherwise you'rew seen as a geek. A "square" was how the polite kid was run down. Little by little the boys who'd been brought up in good families picked up the same obscenities as their black pals. Why isn't it admitted ?

Once a black football player, NFL; objected to white society's rejection of the ghetto speak; all the "pithy" mother-talk. He said-- "That's our CULTURE, Man ! We ain't ashamed of our culture !"

It's always said in your face; in case you've failed to notice. That's why Rev. Wright has the gall-- a "man of the cloth--" to say --Gawd DAMN America. He grew up in the ghetto, and later in the Marines. They indulge in trash talk ad nausea ! It's also well-known Dr. Martin Luther King used his people's raw language in private conversations. His friends saw nothing in it very odd, coming from a preacher.

It's the culture --In your face.

-

save your diaper rash,
garage guy soils his Pampers, and calls it "writing,"

garageman writes: Friday, March, 21, 2008 3:05 PM
Bozell, a repellent hygienist
"L. Brent Bozell III, as I have written before and shall write again here,"

Keep your flaming down under the grease pit; with luck you'll have to call for fire trucks; couldn't happen to a nicer bag of wind.

Bozell is a GREAT MAN, and I congratulate him daily on his commentary. Is he ever "repellent"-- ( ? ? ? ) Only to the idiots of our country; a collection of proud wackoes just like you. LEFTIE imbeciles, like who deals in Townhalls as "garage trolls" --Take that long walk off the short pier, Troll Puker.

Dreadnaught Asks
is he a racist for such utterances as this: "We became inured to the filth; always coming at us from the usual suspects: black students"?

Hell yes. You are a racist.


Some conservatives
Caught the real failing of Bozell's rant.

You espouse limited government and personal responsibility yet in this instance you want greater government intervention and less personal responsibility.

It is no wonder conservatism is failing in this country.

Luis Gets the Gold Star
He writes: "What we want is to be able to go to a public place, meaning in this case television, and have no surprises, have nothing to explain to our innocent children"

WHat this amounts to is diminishing all discourse in the public sphere to the level of what an 8 year old can handle. Sorry folks, despite the ludicrous deification of children, the world is also made up of adults who have the right to an adult world.

I know conservatives love the past, but in this case they forget that back in the glory days children were either ignored or considered small adults. The idea of limiting the adult public experience to what is suitable for an 8 year would have been considered absurd.

How is it that...
...Bozell and other like him can claim to be conservatives? This column is the very antithesis of conservatism.

A true conservative reveres the Constitution. He does not seek to subvert it to serve a personal agenda. He doesn't seek impose his belief system on others. A true conservative is a champion of freedom for all, not just those who agree with him.

Aaron Sorkin may be a hard-core liberal, but over the years he has been able to communicate conservative values far better than people like Bozell. In "The American President" he writes that freedom of speech means "watching a man standing center stage advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." Sorkin may be a liberal, but that is the essense of what a conservative is.

What is Bozell's justification? The children. We have to protect the children. Where have we heard that before? Oh, yeah, we heard brilliant actress and leftwing nutjob Meryl Streep using this argument against Alar. We heard Rosie O'Donnell use this argument when she wanted the government to take away handguns.

The bottom line is that Bozell and the others who seek to use the government to impoes their religion on others aren't conservatives. They are liberals. They may be Christian liberals, but they are liberals nonetheless. If you want to know who the true RINO's are, that's where you need to look. True conservative Republicans stood up this primary season and nominated McCain to represent their party.

Profanity
When a society, especially it's women, coursens
and cheapens itself with vulgarity and profanities, it has no redeeming values. It loses it's humanity and soul. One can look back at once thriving civilizations that are no more to see where this leads. If you wallow in filth, you become that filth. You must be so proud to defend such profanity.

BabbaDo
What I defend is freedom. The power of the state should not be used to force one group's morality on another. The purpose of the state in a free society is to protect the rights of all its citizens.

What people like you fail to realize is that profanity is a particularly poor means of communication. By making it taboo, you invest it with an allure and a power it would not ordinarily have.

In evidence I will tell you of an English teacher in St Louis who demonstrated this very point. She worked in an inner-city school. She had her students write plays which would then be performed by the class. She placed no restrictions on the language they could use. As you would expect the first couple of plays were laced with profanity. Then they changed. The students realized for themselves that they needed a better way of expressing their thoughts and they stopped using profanity. Since it was no longer forbidden, it lost its attraction.

The story doesn't end there. A group of self-appointed group moral police found out about it and made it an issue. They pushed the school into shutting the teacher down. It didn't matter to them that it actually worked. They were too small-minded see that. They heard there was profanity being used in a classroom and they lost their collective minds. Do you see yourself in this picture?

JJBiener
Funny stuff? Seriously, you seem to be missing the reality.

You reference Aaron Sorkin as a good advocate for free speech, and see that he is a liberal. Then you point out that teh conservative at hand, BBozell isn't really a conservative, he's a liberal. Well, that's odd because he's a noted conservative and he's posting in a highly conserative context.

Still don't get it? Suppressing speech is really a conservative thing. Liberals are the ones who protect it. Even you point that out, though you don't realize it.

Get an education
Dreadnaught:

Go back to high school and finish your education.

For your information, I'm a conservative Republican who actually believes in limited government. For another, I don't equate an occasional four-letter word uttered in the public domain with cultural decline. If Brent Bozell constitutes greatness, then surely we've lowered our standards.

there is no question :
Brent Bozell ? You kidding ?

He's a GREAT MAN. You bugs who don't like his work can say what you like. It's a free country. I agree with Him.

--Sink down ten levels to Hoofypigpost.com where Arianna keeps a stable of cretins of your lifestyle. They're with you; more filth is better--and death to anybody who counsels good Americans. Don't come back --

The essence of conservatism
There's a lot of disagreement here about what a conservative is. There are some who want the government to conserve the moral climate of yesteryear. There are others, like myself, who would like to see the moral climate of yesteryear preserved, but see the issue of conserving our Constitutional government to be more pressing. I don't disagree with the result that some of the posters here want, but I strongly condemn the means. If people are to be free, they must be free to make the wrong choice.

This includes the right of others to watch/say things that we might find reprehensible. It seems to me that children would be better off hearing a "fleeting f---" in the safety of their own living room, where their parents can immediately explain to the kids what foul language is, and why they shouldn't use it. Otherwise, the kids will go to school and hear that kind of language and be caught completely off guard, unable to either comprehend or renounce what they are hearing.

Furthermore, there are a lot of damn good shows that use four letter words in a meaningful, non-gratuitous context, and a free public shouldn't be deprived of them simply because an overprotected eight year old might be watching. If you really want to feel superior, read a book.

JJBiener
"The power of the state should not be used to force one group's morality on another."

Well, precisely. The state should not say that if you want to have TV in your home, you must accept profanity.

Understand that I don't say the only alternative is for the government to prohibit profanity on basic/non-premium programming. The alternative I prefer is for the market to be allowed to work.

If the great majority of TV viewers would rather be able to buy TV access without being subjected thereby to profanity, then broadcasters should be free to give them that option. There should be competition for viewers' patronage, not a single standard that applies to everyone BECAUSE THERE IS NO COMPETITION ALLOWED. If that competition ultimately means the market -- not government -- dictates that what we consider basic programming is profanity-free, well, yippee. I bet money that it would.

I don't really care if other people want to use profanity or wet their beds or poo their Depends. I do care if those practices are imposed on me as a standard, so that I can't have TV in my home unless I accept them. Let the market sort this out; there are ways to do that, through deregulation and programming choice we don't have now.

7sticks writes:
"There are plenty of us who don't particularly care for children. Does that make us bad people because we don't care? I'd like to think not because I try to help out in my community, just not in that particular venue. All we ask is that you let the majority of us who like our trash to let us be in peace. Your trash is our treasure, and we want to keep it that way."

Yes it does. That's why there's cable. And these remarks are the reason why I'm not a libertarian.

Jack
"Suppressing speech is really a conservative thing. Liberals are the ones who protect it."

Liberals protect free speech? Have you been to a college campus lately? Liberals protect speech they agree with and try to supress anything they disagree with. That's what makes Bozell a liberal.

thanks, ex wyomingite
Thank you; I feel charming. You must realize my attitude isn't more than half-serious. It's something like song-writing; yet sensible. I am actually a loving person. But saucy. Learn to roll with the punches and have fun. Then you'll live longer.

and for garagemensch:
Oh, my -- You're really a conservative --

OK, then I don't hope your garage burns to the ground. I hope it makes you tons of money. But your opinion of Brent Bozell still sucks.

Also Jack, my critic
My question, Am I a racist ?

Jack says:

"Dreadnaught asks
is he a racist for such utterances as this: "We became inured to the filth; always coming at us from the usual suspects: black students"?

Hell yes. You are a racist."

I see; speaking truthfully is straight-out racism ? Have you seen me write, I hate black students --? Or they'll all go to hell, Or, make the blacks miserable, they deserve it ???

NO.

I believe in justice for ALL. Regardless of race, color or creed. I hate discrimination. I never said there are NO good black people. In fact there are great black people whom I respect; (I can make a long list.) and many white people are incredibly VILE.

All I say is; the use of ugly, obscene language was RARE; until we integrated our schools. It's the truth. But I still believe in JUSTICE. Fair play for all, including every black American. Without conditions;

How about you ?

.

Profanity
Profanity offends because the offendees take offence.

"The dog pooped on the rug, please clean it up." is not considered profane, vulgar, or offencive, whereas "The dog s**t on the rug, please clean it up." is considered so.

Why?

nonsense johnnyv
It's clueless to assume that if nobody took offense, there would be no offense. If nobody cared we wouldn't be criticized for anything at all, however depraved.

What if I smeared your mother or your daughter ? It's often that close to home; since nowadays there's hardly any limit to the liberties being taken.

The reason we need a law with teeth against widespread abuse of the freedom of speech; is that all speech is a slippery slope.

What didn't offend you on that last occasion will offend you at last on a different occasion. Because the crude people never know when to stop. The day arrives when your own children will call their mother a dirty shlut, and you, their father a miserable cxxx-sucker. WHY ?

On account of no standards; ANYTHING GOES.

LAW is made ultimately for ***TEACHING*** Law is what makes the world realize: You can't get away with this !

dreadnaught
The comment I posted did not smear your mother or child.

I believe that denigration is quite different from profanity.

Espousing the fact that your mother is a whore is quite different than espousing the fact the dog pooped on the rug.

My question remains: What is the difference if I say poop or s**t?

To The7Sticks
"There are plenty of us who don't particularly care for children. Does that make us bad people because we don't care?"

Yes. If you cannot have respect for the sensibilities of others, you have no good place in a civil democratic system.

Does that sound judgemental? Well, sorry but that's the way it is.

As a soldier (and therefore exposed to obscene language and far worse things), the F-bomb doesn't offend me. I have nothing but contempt for people who cannot or will not discipline themselves to use decent language around others, though.
Everybody slips up once in a while. But simply not caring about others in this respect is no better than refusing to care about people in other respects.

What is the difference?
Who cares whether one offends somebody by saying sh*t instead of 'poop'.
Except that if one doesn't care about being offensive, why not use all those nasty little racial/ethnic slurs, too?

Because that's all this whole thing is about: either one cares to behave respectfully and civilly toward one's fellow human beings, or one doesn't.

"If I don't find it offensive..."
"...then nobody else should either".

This is the line of defense that some people use to justify their offensive behavior. However, it is actually just another way of saying "My way is the right way, and nobody has a right to hold a different standard". It's another way of demanding that the whole world conform to oneself.

Does anybody *truly* believe such egotism is a desirable and helpful attitude in society?

Swearing
The problem with swearing is not the words, but the spirit with which the words are imbued.

I have heard many pious folk say "dang it" in such a spirited, angry, wrathful way that I find it more offensive than any fleeting expletive, blasphemy, or curse from the mouths of "bad people."

As Mark Twain (who I consider to be the consummate expert on swearing) said, "The spirit of wrath and not the words--is the sin; and the spirit of wrath is cursing. We begin to swear before we can talk."

Just unplug the TV
Back in 2003, I voluntarily had my cable tv disconnected. I was tired of my children vegging out and watching this stuff. As a result, they now read a lot of books and are way beyond their grade level. Now when we are accidentally exposed to it,we cannot stand the noise or the pesky commercial interruptions. Even the radio is annoying. After 5 years, they now willingly opt not to watch.

While there are a few worthwhile channels left, I refuse to pay for the 7/8's of them that are not. Until we can opt out of those channels, the cable company is not getting my money. I am able to read the news in the internet.

Context is All
When the discussion has to do with conversational profanity on the airwaves, I am somewhat with conservatives since we don't really want to hear young children picking up language they shouldn't be using, such as f****** as the universal adjective. But an airwaves standard is easily extended to language use in drama, and it's sobering to remember that a few years ago, after the FCC wardrobe malfunction event, TV channels were afraid to run "Finding Private Ryan" on Memorial Day. When I used to teach English I told my students that whether profanity is appropriate or not depends on its function in a novel or story, and that a soldier in combat, being shot in the belly, would not realistically say "Oh dear me".

If Memorial Day is for anything it is for honoring the service of those who have endured the hell of combat to defend us. If they can do that, surely we can endure hearing bad words in "Saving Private Ryan".

Ho-Hum
Does Bozell use a set of flash cards to write this stuff?

Same tired arguments, time after time.

I join the others here who say "be careful what you wish for." You give a government power to regulate certain kinds of speech, and all it takes is a Hillary, a Pelosi, or some other leftwing head-case to gain power, and your freedom of religion gets defined-away as unacceptable speech.

Seems to me that God created man with free will. Eve chose to exercise hers against God's wishes, and conned Adam into following suit. But without free will--i.e., the capacity to CHOOSE to do wrong--the choice of doing RIGHT becomes meaningless.

BTW, that's the point that Anthony Burgess was attempting to make in "A Clockwork Orange." Those of you who only watched the movie instead of reading the original novel probably missed this point, titillated as you were by all the naughty behavior.

CT & wendy
CT: "That's why there's cable."

Those who wish to insulate themselves from contemporary vulgarity ALSO have cable as an option.

Did you know you can watch Teletubbies at 3AM? It's a fascinating show for the insomniac preschooler.

... and then just block everything else.

wendy: "While there are a few worthwhile channels left, I refuse to pay for the 7/8's of them that are not."

Now, be careful there -- what if EVERYBODY took this attitude?

Why, the cable companies might have to actually ]]GASP!![[ *improve* their programming to get viewers back!

tsk tsk tsk -- can't have that, can we?

Lilly
Context *is* all. I don't think anyone reasonable would disagree.

Letting fly with a coarse expression upon hitting one's thumb with a hammer is not the same as just throwing those same words around in every sentence spoken, however. I don't know a single human being who is offended at the first instance-we've all done it, but the fact is too much programming seems to be aimed at the level of a two year old who has just found out that if he uses certain words he'll get a reaction.

FWIW, my husband and three boys (who were younger teens at the time) all went to see Saving Private Ryan when it came out without me or their sister; she was far too young for such a graphic movie and I don't like them generally. We now even have the movie on our shelf-but it is understood that it's (along with other not-so-family-friendly movies) only watched later at night when our daughter has gone to bed.




FAUX Yes, It Does!!!
If nothing is sacred, nothing is profane.

some pilates posting here
I see a few here acting as Pontius Pilate did. They ask, "What is truth?"

And instead of qualifying their statements with an easy IMHO-- they try to dump on that messenger who protests the truth !

"Ho-Hum
Does Bozell use a set of flash cards to write this stuff? Same tired arguments, time after time."

I see nothing wrong about Bozell writing what he thinks. Isn't ours a free society ? Or is it just to the narcissist and the hedonist and atheist that we allow free speech ? I saw nothing out of any flash card about Bozell's argument. He's an American speaking, after his thoughts on an important matter.

Our legislators can waste hundreds of thousands of tax-payer dollars investigating major league baseball players, but they better not act on the problems in our media ? These are real problems, we have every right to see what can be done. Anyway; Brent Bozell was introducing a point of view, not pondering the limits of our freedom.

Some SNOBS here are too smug in their own views to allow any other American a forum.
.

Continued from previous post:
continued from previous post:

At least I'm honest about saying that I sincerely don't care about children because I really don't. I care about freedom of speech of all kinds, even the ones some of you consider indecent or obscene, because I know that if one form of speech is censored, then all speech is censored.

He Also Has The Right To Be Criticized
He has every right to say whatever he has to say, even though there is overwhelming evidence that he is wrong on this issue. However, a little constructive, or should I say destructive, crititcism is going to be expected from oppossing viewpoints. Only real smuggy snobs would say that Bozell is being browbeated by oppossing comments on this board (Come to think of it, Bozell is kind of a smug snob himself.) After all, he gets to present his view on TV and in newspaper columns, but we can't. Well, at least not the few of us whose point of view can only be communicated through Townhall.com or some other messageboard.
I'm simply saying that it is pointless for religious or cultural conservatives, like Bozell, to keep waging a so-called war on indecency because most of these campaigns fail miserably. Ever heard of the famous incident in which religious conservative activist Don Wildmon tried to set up a Coalition For Better TV and boycott every TV show on the air in the early 1980s. Most likely you haven't heard of it because, suprise, it failed miserably. So did that campaign against "Married...With Children" by that mother Terry Rakolta, which only gave it higher ratings. And if you read some of the polling data about the Superbowl Halftime show incident, you will note that even though most of the respondents to the poll thought it was in poor taste, they didn't want any government intervention into the incident.
These decency crusades are mainly done in the pursuit of avrice. Think about it: What's the easiest way of making lots of money real fast? By making a ruckus out of "the decaying moral fabric" that has been "inflicted" on our society. Religious organizations like the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition have collected millons in dues from their members in order to bring censorship across the country. These people have no interests in trying to protect children when they try to complain about indecency.
(Continued)

continued from previous post:
continued from previous post:

At least I'm honest about saying that I sincerely don't care about children because I really don't. I care about freedom of speech of all kinds, even the ones some of you consider indecent or obscene, because I know that if one form of speech is censored, then all speech is censored.

seven stinks
I hope you didn't OBJECT to somebody who believes you're the wrong one here. (Is it the first time that's happened to you ?)

Freedom of speech is in our Constitution and all of us have our own stake in it. I'm for freedom, but within limits. There is such a thing as responsibility.

The FCC is empowered by law (the will of the people) to impose fines for certain offenses; and/or warning violators to cease and desist. If that power weren't in the best interest of the American people, power would NOT have been vested in the authorities.

Think-- Why can't you televise and/or broadcast whatever you wish, at will, without licensing, if it's your inviolable freedom to speak ? YOU MAY; Do speak, but it must be responsibly. Or else pay the fines. This isn't rocket science. We NEED controls. Nor should the necessary controls encroach on our liberties. We have judges to determine the boundaries.

As you can see-- above I spelt your handle "stinks." You surely dislike it ! But then, what about my freedom ? It always depends on whose ox is gored. There you are, I've acted irresponsibly toward you. For which I owe you an apology -- ;^D
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