Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Saturday, October 27, 2007
Brent Bozell :: Townhall.com Columnist
"Bella" and the Pro-Life Film Trend
by Brent Bozell
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


In a political act loaded with cultural symbolism, Sen. Hillary Clinton endorsed an effort to earmark a million taxpayer dollars for a museum in Bethel, N.Y., celebrating the circus of 1969, the Woodstock music festival. Other senators smelled the pork and successfully voted to remove it.

The tie-dyed, drug-soaked postwar babies that populated that muddy plain are now approaching Social Security age, and the aging hippies that made their way into the establishment want to imbue the notorious excesses of their youth with respectability. The New York Times said the Bethel complex would be "what Cooperstown is to baseball" -- a hippie Hall of Fame.

I liked that music. I still do. Then, as now, I simply ignored the cultural and political messages. Many others didn't.

The bohemian worldview of Woodstock Nation is in some ways dominant, and in some ways passe in our popular culture. Hallucinogenic drugs are no longer the rage, but the "free love" spirit of "if it feels good, do it" still runs strong, especially in our entertainment world. And yet, burbling beneath a noisy culture of sexual excess and self-love, there's a quiet undercurrent in our movies carrying subtle, and even obvious, pro-life themes.

Last Christmas, there was "Children of Men," a dark science-fiction look into England, 20 years from now, where human fertility has vanished. One pregnant woman becomes a damsel in grave danger, and then with the birth of her child, a beacon of hope.

Six months later, the small movie "Waitress" followed a lonely waitress with a good-for-nothing husband who decides (against Tinseltown's grain) to keep her baby. Summer brought the big, crude sex comedy "Knocked Up," a tale of a beautiful blonde who improbably mates with an overweight schlub, a man the world would say is "not in her league." But underneath the crudity, another pro-life story emerges: not only does she keep the baby, she tries to build a marriage and family.

Those two movies were close enough together to represent a tiny trend -- and film critics denounced it as an affront to their "pro-choice" beliefs. The women chose life, and that was wrong. To them, it smelled of fear and corner-cutting. They noted the word "abortion" wasn't used in the scripts. (But couldn't pro-lifers make the same complaint?)

It showed "the studios' terror at giving offense," whined the Boston Globe. "Hollywood is No-Choice," was the disgusted headline in The New York Times. "Both movies go out of their way to sidestep real life," since "two-thirds of unwanted pregnancies end in abortion." But what about the one-third of "unwanted" pregnancies in real life that result in real life? They cannot be celebrated?

Apparently not. "I think it's shocking that the subject of abortion as a choice has been so eliminated from the discussion," said one alarmed feminist to The Washington Post. This is quite absurd, since modern movies like "The Cider House Rules" and "Vera Drake" celebrated wise and sympathetic abortionists.

Now comes the little movie Bella, which won the People's Choice award at the 2006 Toronto Film Festival. Once again, a single waitress finds herself pregnant and feels that abortion is her only way out, until she spends a day with a man who's just lost his soccer-star career. In that one day together, their lives are changed forever, and she decides to carry her baby to term. Oh, boy. Here we go again. The word "abortion" is never mentioned in the movie.

Worse yet for the Hollywood elite, the executive producer of "Bella" is Steve McEveety, who was also executive producer of "The Passion of the Christ." He says as "The Passion" showed us how to die, "Bella" shows us how to live.

Movie critics will probably hate it, since it doesn't even have oodles of sex and profanity in it to keep them entertained. Variety already booed: "Manipulative pic trades in fairytale views of New York life alongside briefly sustained emotional confessions."

The makers of "Bella" are different than the average Hollywood moviemakers. They have refused projects they didn't feel were uplifting. Their religious convictions had led to a desire to make redeeming films. Their company is named Metanoia Films, after the Greek word for "conversion" or "repentance." Those are not Hollywood words. But they are words that can resonate all over the Main Streets of America.

So what does Main Street think of "Bella"? Preview audiences repeatedly have given it standing ovations.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Founder and President of the Media Research Center, Brent Bozell runs the largest media watchdog organization in America.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Brent Bozell's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
 
©Creators Syndicate
Everyone is pro-life
Pro-choicers won't admit that their devotion to the sacrament of abortion results in millions of babies being killed in the womb. Instead they refer to the child as a "fetus" or some other euphymism to assuage their guilt; it ISN't a life!

Maybe the arts can serve to awaken the conscience in all of us that innately wants to protect innocent life. Maybe Bozell's "trend" will turn out to be legitimate.

The media is pro choice...
...provided you choose to kill the child.But you better not choose the other way.

The next step...
...in films ought to be that the women (and men) choose marriage *before* having sex.

Wouldn't *that* get the critics talking!

Its a Hippie Thing
For those of us who were at university in the Sixties and were not part of the Woodstock Nation (or else, in my particular case) this is a familiar song. Remember *fashion*? That was when we were battered with revealing, unattractive clothes that we were told made us *different* just like everybody else. It was the Herd Riff. The so-called Free Love and No Consequences Riff was part of that Nations constitution, and like any totalitarian state they made it seriously difficult to resist.

Just like the *choice* we were offered in Free Love, this was a false branch of the Men And Women Are The Same clause in the Woodstock Constitution. Men could walk around half naked and nobody would say a word; therefore, women could walk around half naked and no consequences would obtain. Men could find them, f*** them and forget them, so could women. Except that women could not, as it turned out. Popsies were still popsies and walking around half nekkid got women raped, and then there was the fact that even if used properly, as usually it was not, birth control failed sometimes and that left women with babies.

Times change slowly, but they changed. Women took a good look at the *fashion* they were told Women Will Wear and said *Not me, brother,* and went back to buying classics and keeping them. Now women are coming to the realization that men and women are different in other ways -- and that wonder of wonders, a lot of men think about babies just the way they do, only they were hard to find because other men jeered at them. Because, you see, this time what made the difference was that MEN began to step up. If you look at all of the movies you mentioned and many others, the turning point in the womans decision was when a MAN stepped up and into the position men (not little boys) used to take routinely. Women have been learning to be women again for 20 years; now Men are once again learning, or daring, to be Men. [continued below]


Its A Hippie Thing (continued)
Abortion was another Hippie Herd Woodstock Nation thing, and what is needed to bring choice back to its true meaning is for Men to wake up, grow up, and step up. You guys can do it. Go to it.

Ok,Audi,here goes...
...I am the youngest of ten children,the father of nine,the grandfather of forty-six (and counting),and the great grandfather of two.

Do I qualify?

What is Entertainiment?
THANK YOU FOR GREAT NEWS!!!
==CAUTION==
"Entertainment and recreation - HANDLE THEM WITH CARE."

"What are entertainment and recreation?"

1- "The entertainment and recreation we cherish, cultivates the object of our love, which shapes our life."

2- "The recreations we entertain shape our thoughts, feelings and behavior."

3- "The recreation we choose to entertain, are fashioned after the image and object of the things we secretly and openly most love, which indicate the path on which we tread."

4- "The recreations that we choose to entertain are spiritual, mental, and emotional rehearsals that cultivate the thoughts feelings and desires of our heart, which determine the choice and direction of our lives."

5- "So the recreation that we choose to entertain is fashioned after the image and object of the things that we secretly and openly most love, which shape our thoughts, then our emotions that motivate all behavior."
--by Phillip L. Hansen - "Power and Freedom to Choose"

"A thought good or evil
... first an act
. . . . then a habit.
. . . . . . So runs life’s law."
--By Ralph Waldo Trine

NOW YOU KNOW THE POWER THAT DETERMINES DESTINY;
-THE OBJECT OF THAT WHICH WE SECRETLY AND OPENLY MOST LOVE. IF WE KEPT THE TWO GREATEST COMMANDMENTS THEN PEACE WOULD REIGN ON THE EARTH AS IT DOES IN HEAVEN.

my 3 cents
1) How about this for a choice - Keep your knickers on, cross your legs, just say NO.

2) Stubborn fact - life begins at conception, ergo to END that life is ......

3) I never have been am not now and never will be a fan of George Clooney. That having been said I must say that in my opinion his performance in the film "Michael Clayton" is a masterpiece and worthy of an Academy Award. The film is by far the best I have seen this year, although I am not a big movie goer. The movie reviewer at Weekly Standard reviewed it far better than I could. That's why I went to see it.

4) Audi - good post(s) today. How's the Catholic thing going? It gets better as it sinks in.

5) Movie recommendations - 'Islander', a movie made in Maine, and 'Into Great Silence'.

I know I said only 3 cents. I'll have to owe you


2 more cents
IMO

The more into history the actual event fades the worse woodstock looks. I'm glad that senator clinton was rebuffed. That's kind of pathetic what she tried to do. FYI - I was around at the time and had a friend who went there. I did not go.

But the sentence that stands out - "Other senators smelled the pork and voted to remove it." Wow - when is the last time that ANY of us saw a sentence like that? How about some more facts - what was the original bill that she tried to attach the earmark to? Who were the "other senators"? That would be interesting to know.

What's next will probably be Nancy Pelosi getting some federal bux to build a commmemorative thingie at the site of altamont.

ssdd

I had give up on
"MOVIES" Its nice to know there are a couple of films I can now watch without paying money to hollyweird. Because of all the tripe they espouse I have not been to see a movie in years, just because I will not support them!

If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com

Thanks Brent
For bringing up this film. It is a film that will truly save lives. Yes it will influence those making a choice to chose life.

How awesome is that!


Thanks also for avoiding the drumbeat of the pretend pro-life commentators (perhaps I should be disparaged for calling them pretend) who are devoting all resources to convincing us to vote for a pro-abort RNC candidate.

New filmmakers buck pro choice trend
It's true -- the filmmakers that made "Knocked Up" are the same that made "The 40-Year-Old Virgin" and "Superbad". All 3 of these films are raunchy and funny, BUT have an undercurrent of Conservative values, not seen in Hollywood since before the Hippies took over.

I'm sure Lefty Hollywood is 'appalled' about these films being so successful, because they buck the trend of Lefty indoctrination, but I for one, am delighted.

Mom in Wisconsin

well
something good out of hollywood for a change.

one third of all pregancies
end in a miscarraige in the first tri-mester. these are simply not babies. they are fetuses, potential humans that never become. to pretend that these fetuses are "babies" or "children" is ignorant.

The line about the standing
ovation made my heart sing. Like when i read about air travelers giving up seats so returning soldiers would not spend precious leave time in an airport. About the cooperation and support those threatened by the California fires showed one another and they didn't check political posture first, either. Is this a great country or what? The bitter drivebytrolls that take up such an out of proportion percent of posts on TH are merely a noisy minority.

to pretend
that these babies are not babies even if a miscarriage is ignorant

i have a baby
he is flesh and blood. he is the most important thing in th world to me. if you consider a clump of cells, admittedly, a POTENTIAL baby, as a baby, you are showing a total lack of appreciation for ACTUAL LIVE BABIES. I do not agree with those who make the personal decision to abort their fetuses, but the people who make that decision are not killing their babies any more than a man who masturbates or a woman on birth control. A fetus is, quite simply, not a baby.

Bob Novakaine scribbles:
A fetus is, quite simply, not a baby.

IMHO, Wrong, sorry, but life begins at conception! That is when the sperm fertilizes the egg! Also this has nothing to do with birth control or masturbation!

If we can’t have HOME SECURITY first, the rest just don’t matter!
HUNTER /Tancredo 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com

BELA REVIEW

.....Bella opened Friday in select theaters in the Dallas area ...the review in the Dallas Morning News was a luke warm C- ..."the movie was disjointed and slow moving" ...potificated the reviewer ...

.....I guess without profanity and gratuitous sex scenes it must seem dull to Hollywood ...

.....I remember the build up and critical acclaim that accompanied "Cider House Rules" a movie that showed the kinder, gentler side of an abortionist ...don't expect this kind of treatment for Bela ...to the Libs choice means choosing to abort .....COLOSSUS

Thanks, Spiceman 7:38am
Excellent post!

>> "A thought good or evil
>> ... first an act
>> . . . . then a habit.
>> . . . . . . So runs life’s law."
>> --By Ralph Waldo Trine

I have followed that path to ends that I regret.

At other times it has led me to blessings beyond my dreams.

In each case, I chose the direction I would go.
I continue to face choices. I'm getting better.

Thank You, Lord.

Cheaters "can't" win in the end...
macfan1950 writes: "The next step...
...in films ought to be that the women (and men) choose marriage *before* having sex.

Wouldn't *that* get the critics talking!"

I LOVE this and eagerly await it too! We had husband's mother spend most of the week with us. She likes watching westerns and where she lives, that is hard to come by. We were watch OLD TV western series, you know, the ones that had a morality story in them...

Cheating, in cards or in relationships led to ruin. Moral: Cheaters "can't" win in the end...

Not like current TV fare where you can't tell who is in a relationship with whom, and is cheating again...

What are we teaching our kids????

Novakaine, what makes us human? Part 1
Bob,

What makes someone human? If an orphan dies of malnutrition on a dirty street in sub-Saharan city is it a human. I mean ultimately it was just a larger blob of cells that no one cared about anyway.

I mean "obviously" your baby is a human because you care for it, but if you stop caring for it does it stop being human?

Your definition of what makes someone a human seems to say that your humanity is determined by your value to someone else or perhaps to society at large. Based on similar logic, Princeton ethicist Peter Singer can even claim that babies up to one years old are not human, and we should be able to kill them. The far end of this logic is dangerous not only to unborn babies, but to anyone that society decides is not human. Hitler started by killing the weak and retarded, and then later decided that Jews weren't human either.

Either humans have intrinsic value or its simply a matter of someone's opinion about whether you are human or not.

Novakaine, what makes us human? Part 2
Bob,

Here is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. (taken from wikipedia)


In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."



If we decide to define the value of human life away, who will stand up for us when we become less valuable?

Novakaine, what makes us human? Part 3
Bob,

Finally, you asked whether all those unborn fetuses that die naturally are human. Yes, I believe they are, but I do not necessarily mourn their deaths any more than I mourn the death of someone who I never met and never heard of. I may mourn death in a fallen world in general, but not specific deaths of people whom I have never met.

On the other hand, the 19 year old girl who was living with my family certainly mourned the death of her "fetus", that had to be aborted because it was a tubal pregnancy. The pregnancy was still in the first trimester, but the fetus was her baby. Likewise, all of my kids were my kids long before they were born. Ask any woman who has had a miscarriage and you will find out that they mourn the death of a child.


sam allen
my baby does not have rights simply because I care for him. you misunderstand me. my baby's life has value because he is a flesh and blood, fully formed human. he is able to survive outside the womb. he is not a potential life. he is a human life.

potential life
has value. just not the same value as actual life. that was my point.

Nam65-66
WOW! When your immediate family gets together do you have your own zip code? That is just amazing!!! What a wonderful legacy! God Bless.

Nova Cain, or Neo Cain...
...his brother's killer. Euphemism, indeed, a "fetus" is not a "baby". Duh! But they are both INDIVIDUAL HUMAN LIVES! In fact they are one and the same life! Once sperm and egg come together in conception, the DNA pattern of an individual human life begins. Through growth and evolution in the womb, that individual life transforms throughout its life of birth, more growth, more evolution, eventually to old age and death. It is an unseparated continuum.

There need be no religious moralizing to see this clearly. Above is an empirical, humanist description of the process. Mincing words does not change the truth and the reality of the phenomenon.

What Brent Bozell will tell you.
300, a movie about war and killing, was highly praised by the conservatives on this site.

But that's not my point. There is a LARGE trend that Bozell will not admit.

If one goes to Yahoo! and looks at the Box Office numbers over the last few years, a trend becomes apparent.

Animated family features about trolls and penguins trump them all. The studios are cranking out animated family films at blazing speeds. That is a LARGE trend.

Why?

An interesting op/ed written by someone not Brett Bozell XXXI surmised the reason was: money.

A family film produces on average 4 tickets per purchase and not 2. Family DVDs sell better. Capitalism at work.

So try it yourself. Go to Yahoo! or your favorite movie site, and look at the highest box office grossing films for any of the last three years.

Whether it is Shrek, 300, or Bella, Hollywood's prime agenda is money.

And if you want to bellyache about an independent film getting overlooked, well join the crowd of 99% of independent films. Bella is not special except that as a foreign film it got released to theaters at all. Most good indepent films just go to DVD.

Finally, Evan Almighty was a $200 million dollar flop. But at $200 million it was the most expensive movie made this year.

What Brent Bozell XXXXXXIV will not tell you is the LARGE trend that family value content has had a great rise in Hollywood over the last three years. Perhaps if he did that he'd have to start giving credit to Hollywood for things done right as encouragement to keep it up, which is how most proper behavior is successfully encouraged.

Somehow Brent Bozel IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII writing an encouragement piece for Hollywood doesn't seem likely. Its not red meat for the liberal hating crowd.

Great discussion
This is all great news. If Hollywood is making movies that appear to have an undercurrent of general conservatism, then that means they know that people are more conservative than they are liberal, and that my friends is huge. What I am loving about this particular discussion is the total absence of liberals. Even that Novakaine guy isn't defending the practice of abortion. The fact that the libs haven't been drawn out on this one means they know they get smoked on this issue by the likes of us. Hear!Hear!

Now Novakaine, a person does not become alive at the moment they emerge from the womb of the mother. Before birth, the child is growing inside the mother, and of coarse something can not grow unless it is in fact alive. An unborn baby has a heartbeat, develops organs which identify sex, and is sustained via the mother (why would the child need to be fed if it is not alive?). None of that happens until after conception, which means there can be no other point at which it can be said life begins.

sam allen
what prompted me to post is the fact that my wife is experiencing a miscarraige right now. she has a dead fetus in her womb. we are both saddened by this. we mourn its loss. but that loss is completely incomparable to even the idea of losing our 18 month old son. our 18 month old son is a human being.

A trend
Actually, outside Hollywood and NYC, there is a hige industry of religious films and stories, novels, children's books, music, and straight religious literature.

Although Hollywood seemed immune to Gibson's Passion of Christ, and they tried their best to paint him as an anti-Semite, the movie made nearly a billion dollars domestically and more overseas.

The bottom-line people can't be entirely immune to the lure of that money angle. After all, 86% responded to an NBC poll that they believed in God and practiced a faith. That's c. 256 million people out of the total pop.

Those who want to change in the media sponsored sex-deviant, violent products can show their preferences by shopping elsewhere and protesting virulently when they see and hear dross that offends them.

The Christian video games market is projected to be $55 billion in 2008 ($22 billion in 2003). The Christian book market is now $4 billion. Walmart carries 1200 Christian titles. The Christian music market is $43 million a year.

If the 86% polled by NBC exerts itself, the nation once recognized as America might return to some of its warmest traditions.

Bob Novakaine
Okay...You are saying that your baby has life because he is able to survive outside the womb?

Where on a sliding scale does that fall?

There was a recent preemie that survived at 21 weeks.

Do you think 21 weeks is where we should draw the line between potential and actual?

Is your argument that we shouldn't use extraordinary means to support a preemie because they can't survive on their own?

How long would your baby survive on its own?

Bob Novakaine
I wrote the previous comment before your explanation of your tragic circumstances. I am sorry for your loss.

And I ask again,
Doc writes: Saturday, October, 27, 2007 10:42 AM
Bob Novakaine scribbles:
A fetus is, quite simply, not a baby.

IMHO, Wrong, sorry, but life begins at conception!
---------------

I sure hope that name is phoney, we don’t need a Doc with this absolutely false idea.

Just check Genesis 2, verse 6 or 7 or thereabouts, life begins at breath.

==========

As I told the doctor when my daughter was born, “I know child bearing has its expected problems, but until my Beautiful Wife is as safe as she can be during childbirth, there is no baby.” The Dr. said, “That’s what I like to hear.”
========

And by the way, an abortion is done only when the alternative is worse. Worse for the female, is the only worse that really counts, but then it is really worse if the fetus becomes a baby who is starved and unloved.

========

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
----

Do you see that, it says to the people, and a pregnant lady is a people, a fetus is not. And if for some odd reason it could be said that a fetus is a people, it still has no way to exercise that power. And think of it, could you tell me of a power that the anyone has, that is really a power if he can’t exercise it?

----
And I ask again,

Are you one of those who watch TV news stories of starving babies and cheer, and say, "At least she didn't get an abortion!"

WORD GAMES

.....Bob Novacaine ...Fetus is just a medical term for baby ...everyone knows it ...did you ever hear a woman who miscarried say "I lost my fetus"? ...

.....You Libs love the word fetus because it is so much easier to kill a baby if you can call it something else .....COLOSSUS

postscript: If masturbating was killing babies you would probably be a mass murderer.

With a grandchild on the way
I have seen the sonograms since 5 weeks.

At 5 weeks, you can see the head, trunk, arms, legs, and all the outline of a baby.

Now at 5 months, it has a 4-chambered heart, fully developed intestines, and sucks its thumb. The sex has already been determined by nature, but the parents have not asked what it is.

By now, it might even be able to live outside the womb. It is only a fetus to the indifferent.


jim
Would you address some of the questions I posed at 12:09 this thread?

JIM

.....So you are saying that every child who has a hard life should have been aborted to keep them from suffering? ...

.....Using that logic then every child who is suffering should be killed because they weren't aborted ...

..... And why stop with children? ...why not just kill everybody who is unfortunate enough to be suffering ...wouldn't that be the humane thing to do? ...Sir you are a fool .....COLOSSUS



Bob Novakaine
I too am sorry for your loss, my son & daughter-in-law just went through a miscarriage as well, and our entire family mourns the loss. You would do well to undertake some study in human development. By six weeks into the pregnancy, the child is fully formed, and nothing is added it only needs to grow. Heartbeat and brain waves are measureable. When I held my lost child in my hand, years ago, I was in awe at his perfection. Totally complete, I could count his toes and fingers, and see his ribs beneath the thin skin. Tell me again that my child never lived.

None of your business
baseballdoc writes: Saturday, October, 27, 2007 12:57 PM
JIM
.....So you are saying that every child who has a hard life should have been aborted to keep them from suffering? ...
--------

It should be well known before the fetus develops, what kind of life the baby would have. Make the decision based on that.

And you still didn’t answer my question about watching TV.

================

Email It | Print It | Flag as Offensive
mrs Paddy writes: Saturday, October, 27, 2007 12:55 PM
jim
Would you address some of the questions I posed at 12:09 this thread?
-------

Yes I will address that. If the female involved wants an abortion for any reason, an abortion it shall be.

Remember, an abortion is better than the alternative, and the female involved is the only one who can make that decision.

It is absolutely none of your business.

jim
Sorry, I don't buy into your statement "an abortion is better than the alternative"

When is death preferable to life?

Nor do I buy into your argument that the "female involved is the only one who can make that decision"

She gave up her right to make a decision and control her body when she allowed a pregnancy to occur.

For after that, the life that is created is no longer a bunch of her cells, but a combination of cells contributed by her AND the father...who strangely gets left out in the cold in this decision.

If you don't give a rap about the child, why don't you give a rap about the decision about their child being aborted that the father might have?

You are right, it isn't my business, but it seems pretty sad to me that the father has no say-so, just because he cannot carry the child.

or fetus if you prefer...the definition from Mirriam-Webster is Main Entry: fe·tus
Pronunciation: \'fe-t?s\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin, act of bearing young, offspring; akin to Latin fetus newly delivered, fruitful — more at feminine
Date: 14th century
: an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

====
Don't you ever wonder how many humans that might have been another Einstein, or Mozart, or Schweitzer have been flushed away?

last argument of yours is so silly
mrs Paddy writes: Saturday, October, 27, 2007 1:28 PM
jim
Sorry, I don't buy into your statement "an abortion is better than the alternative"
-----------
Not even if the alternative is starvation, beatings, and death by torture. And that indeed is just what many unwanted babies suffer.
=============
No need to go into point after point, it won’t change your ideas or mine, but when she had sex the woman did not give up her rights.
==============
seems pretty sad to me that the father has no say-so,

From what I have heard, there are very few if any cases where the man was the husband, they had a loving marriage, and there was not agreement on the decision.

============
Don't you ever wonder how many humans that might have been another Einstein, or Mozart, or Schweitzer have been flushed away?
------
Yes, and I have wondered about the second Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Manson, and and all those other “wonderful” people who did not get the chance to kill millions of people.

That last argument of yours is so silly, I can not imagine why anyone would make it.

Bob
Perhaps you think telling yourself your unborn child that you have lost isn't really a baby will help ease the pain of that loss...your essentially trying to give your soul some novicane with this denial.

My wife and I lost two unborn children. One due to a miscarriage at 12 weeks...what's worse it began the day we had an appointment to get an ultra-sound and get a really good view of our baby for the first time.

Our second child that we lost was around six weeks, but that was almost more painful because it was a tubal pregnancy and we were forced to end it as it was posing a serious threat to the life of my wife and was pretty much guaranteed that the baby wouldn't make it to 12 weeks, but that in the mean time it could not only die, but my wife could end up in critical condition or maybe even die as well if we continued.


The Bigger Point of the Article.....
From most of the comments on this article, (most of which I very much agree with), one would think that it was about abortion. It actually is about much more than that. It is about the people of the U.S. and their values.

Spiceman alluded to it when he quoted "- "So the recreation that we choose to entertain is fashioned after the image and object of the things that we secretly and openly most love, which shape our thoughts, then our emotions that motivate all behavior."
--by Phillip L. Hansen - "Power and Freedom to Choose"

I would just like to emphasize "CHOOSE TO ENTERTAIN". Jesus said it even more succinctly when He said, "As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he".

It is really all about choice. It is very encouraging to see that the people of this country are choosing higher values than Hollyweird has been trying to feed them. After all is said and done, we ARE what we CHOOSE to be by the thoughts we CHOOSE to entertain. That applies to moral or immoral, responsible or irresponsible, faithful or unfaithful, honest of dishonest, rich or poor, and yes, even straight or homosexual. That may bring the trolls out of hiding, but it is nonetheless true.

t r
My statement assumes nothing of the sort. That is your construct, not mine. my statement was in response to "abortion is better than the alternative."

I'm trying to imagine whose alternative? What alternative?

Not in the mood to change the argument to religion, so sorry to disappoint.




Bob continued
It was awful each time. Our children never got a chance, we never got to hold them. The first miscarriage was to be our first child. We did have a child, a wonderful baby girl, about 18 months later. Such a blessing. We also were blessed with a baby boy only about 12 months after losing the second unborn child.
Still we mourned the loss of both unborn children. I still feel sorrow when I think on it.

It's o.k. to value the child you are losing, it's o.k. to hurt, and it's o.k. that it probably doesn't hurt as much as it would if you lost your 18 month old. You probably wouldn't mourn the loss of a new friend who you'd only known for a few weeks as much as you would an old friend either, as your ties to that person aren't as great. That's just human nature. But the child you have lost is no less human just because you didn't know him or her as well.

I'm praying for you and your wife in this sorrowful time. God Bless.

baseball doc
you write:
did you ever hear a woman who miscarried say "I lost my fetus"?
actually, yes.

calling me a lib and insinuating that i masturbate a lot undermines your credibility completely. now, learn how to play nice, or i'll have to put you in a time out.

jim
It is obvious to me that you see the glass half-empty. It must be sad to go through life with such pessimism.

My problem with abortion is that it is used as birth control. Unnecessary.

No one argues that Scott Peterson is in prison for a double homicide for killing his pregnant wife. Why is that?

There are other responsible options to care for 'un-wanted' babies.

It seems to me, you'd rather support irresponsible behavior because it might result in more irresponsible behavior. Where does that end?

But you're right. I'm sure that we've been saving the world from another Pol Pot or Charles Manson....Maybe we should just kill everybody and then there'd be no evil left in the world.

mrs. paddy
i appreciate your condolences.

klee
thank you. in the books i have seen, the 6 week fetus looks kind of like a fish/pig.

t r
Actually he was tried in a court of law. If you don't agree with the law, then petition to have it changed.

r.a.d. dad
thank you for sharing your thoughts. you are probably right on some level. i do mourn the loss. but it really just doesn't feel like the loss of a child. it's sad, but we really don't feel like it was a tragedy. we never named the fetus. we never heard its heart beat. we never saw it on an utrasound. it nver even reached the point where it looked like a baby. maybe that's cold, but that's what i feel.

I don't get it
If hollywood is so pro-choice biased, shouldn't I be able to think of at least one movie or TV show I've ever seen in which a woman gets an abortion? Seriously, can anyone think of one? So much for this column then.

jim
You and I have had this discussion before. You seem to think that abortion will do away with all bad things. I think God does not want us to do away with all bad things because we would learn absolutely nothing. What did we learn from Hitler etc? We actually learn more from the bad in this world than the good. The bad also gives us an opportunity to step up to the plate and prove the existence of good.

There is a reason that if it bleeds it leads. It sells. It sells because we learn and because we want the opportunity to defend, to be outraged, to redress, and in a small way to feel better about ourselves.

You are also living in the past. Most abortions are not coming from married couples. Most abortions are coming from the irresponsible that wallow and practice in secrecy and lies.

In your defense though I will say I used to think like you.

BELLA the movie ..
BELLA's power rests in its simplicity ... No special effects, horrendous violence or titilating skin shots.
Simply a couple choosing commitment over convenience, devotion over expediency and life over death ..

POWERFUL STUFF ..

Last post to t r
Actually 34 states have laws on the books that deal with homicide/feticide of humans killed while in utero.

Eagle Burger
You need to pay attention. Just off the top of my head "Cider House Rules" "Dirty Dancing" Imelda Staunton won an Oscar for Vera Drake...

Eagleburger
have you missed all of the Hollywood marches in favor of pro-choice?

You also have missed a lot of movies as well.

Saw the movie last night ----
I saw the movie, 'Bella' last night. I had to drive about 45 minutes to see it, and it was worth it! What a wonderful movie! I would see it again, and I usually do not see a movie twice unless it is spectacular. Yesterday I heard 3 interviews on the radio with the actor and producer. Their personal stories are very moving.

No matter what the movie critics say, this is a must see movie, although pro-abortionists probably will not like it. When I read the movie reviews, and especially our local reviewer, if he doesn't like it I probably will. He wrote a long scathing & hateful review of the 'Passion of the Christ' and I loved it. What has been coming out of Hollywood lately is not worth the price of a ticket and is a waste of my time. How refreshing to know there are decent producers and actors willing to bring us some decency with a positive message.

comes back for another, tie the tubes
Lolo1 writes: Saturday, October, 27, 2007 2:19 PM
jim
You and I have had this discussion before. You seem to think that abortion will do away with all bad things.
---------

lolo, I hope you miss my point accidentally, not on purpose. My idea is that I don’t want starving and abused babies, and I don’t want a lady to give up her life for one mistake she made.
=======

do away with all bad things because we would learn absolutely nothing.
---

I will answer this way. “Everyone learns by experience, the smart person learns by someone else's experience.” If you can see a way to not have babies starve, be abused, and a way to give a lady the chance to make a correction in her ways, why not.

Of course some will not correct their ways. Tubes should be tied in during most abortions, but if not, I say make a mark, if she ever comes back for another, tie the tubes for sure.
======

Most abortions are coming from the irresponsible that wallow and practice in secrecy and lies.
-----
I know that, and I am sick and tired of all of the complaints about the female, and no comment on the male. Did any one on this column even mention the male? No abortion should be permitted (except for reported, but unidentified rape) where the male has not been identified.

If that male can't properly support, financially, socially, and otherwise, the “about to be abused” baby, he will be castrated. But let's do that in a humane and fair manner. Prior to the operation a short ceremony will determine that “heads” he gets an anesthetic, “tails” he doesn't.

=================
=================
Aw well, can't win them all, I mistakenly posted this at another place also.

Oh my
Oh my, the 3:01 PM post was intended for another column, but since lolo has posted on both, I got confused.

I must blame it on lolo, it can't be my fault. Just like all of the comments on abortion blame the lady, not the jerk.

variety is the nature of a free society
There is no one view on abortion; in fact for same person at one point in their life, abortion seems right to her; and in another time in her life, it seems definitely right to have a baby and value the life inside her.

The anti-choice people want everybody to be like them and think like them;
exactly why we have constititution that protects privacy of conscience from tyranny of the marjority; why we dont have religious strife in this country;

What Roe protects is privacy of conscience. One can tell from these threads that there is much disagreement on what is inside the womb.

What is the solution when there is no agreement on its status. Copy the IRan model, where the rulers decide on some religous doctrine. OR our way, when there is no super agreement on a moral issue then we leave to the conscience of the individual,

And of course, pro life movies and pro choice moves are responsible ways of influencing people. But that is not government.

Both a pro lifer or pro-choicer could have written the above post if familiar with the Western tradition.

2 more cents and I'm outta here
1) Life begins at conception

2) If it's growing, it's alive

Nam65-66 @05:56
On the nail!

That is precisely why one rarely sees articles about China's "one-child policy" (which results in large numbers of government-forced abortions) or northern India's awful culture (whose insistence on dowry results in large numbers of society-forced sex-selection abortions***).

Not only media, but most groups (NOW, NARAL, ...) who call themselves "pro-choice--the fact that they have no issues about FORCED abortions (such as abovementioned), since A CHOICE has been made (even if not by the expectant mother) to kill a child.

Abortion movies
Cider House Rules--Michael Caine got a supporting Oscar

If These Walls Could Talk--starring Demi Moore and Cher

I Had an Abortion--documentary

The Choice--directed by Ravid Greene

Citizen Ruth--starring Laura Dern and Kelly Preston

Dogma--Matt Damon and Ben Affleck star--a COMEDY about the horrors of Catholicism

Are those enough films about aboriton?




stop posts about abortion and evolution

I’m going to stop posting about abortion and evolution.

In a hundred years I could not change an opinion on either, and I am certain none of you will change my opinion even a little bit.

I like to post facts to prove a point, or nice little stories like I posted on Burt Prelutsky yesterday.

I am sick and tired of all the hate, the complaining, the name calling by the same people, against and to the same people as last week, and last month.

I will leave my two favorite questions that no one has attempted to answer, and don’t bother trying, now, because I won’t answer.

============

For the anti-abortionists:

Are you one of those who watch TV news stories of starving babies and cheer, and say, "At least she didn't get an abortion!"

===========

For the pro-evolutionists:

Why would anyone bother to create a wire coat hanger, if they knew that it would naturally evolve from a paper clip?

and

Where did the stuff that stuff evolved from, come from?

EAGLE BURGER - TV SITCOM

.....MAUDE ...

.....Maude gets pregnant and agonizes the whole episode over whether to have an abortion or not ...her husband says it is up to her ...her grown daughter tells her to have the abortion ...

.....at the conclusion Maude announces that she has decided to have the abortion ...her husband gets this dopey look on his face and says, "I love you". ...the live audience breaks into applause .....COLOSSUS

JIM & NOVECAINE

.....You two guys sound depressed ...all this talk of killing fetuses and stuff ...why don't you two hook up and take a trip to Tiller the Baby Killer's abortion clinic in Kansas City and watch a few partial births ...all that blood and the reflexive jerk of the baby as the scissors penetrates its skull ...then the sucking sound of brains being extracted and the crushing of the skull before the remains are dropped in the slop bucket ...I'm sure it will cheer you both up ...bring an extra pair of Depends in case of an accident ...

.....Nova: In Medical terminology, for the first eight weeks of its life a baby is called an embryo ...from week eight to birth it is called a fetus ...but we all know that it is really a baby from day one now don't we ...

.....Jim: Your question about watching starving children on TV and saying at least they weren't aborted is just plain stupid ...but then considering the source .....COLOSSUS

Bob Novacaine
The child that I held in my hand was three months gestation, and very much human. He did not "become" human, he was human from the moment of conception, and if he was not alive, then he would not have grown from the single cell to be three inches long when I lost him and his twin brother. The pictures you may have seen may bear a likeness of a fish or a pig, but the genetic makeup is human. That is why pregnant humans do not carry pigs or fish, only human offspring.

klee
i am sorry for your loss. i meant no offense.

baseball doc

whatever, moron.

At least partial births are
illegal.

My son and daughter-in-law are concerned about genetic abnormalities as they are in their late 30s. My son's wife's pregnancy is so high risk they are not using amniocentosis but relying on blood work.

They have already decided not to abort regardless of the outcome.

renny
your son and daughter in law. They have made a choice not to abort regardless. Question: Whose choice should it be, theirs or the govt?

renny
You say partial abortion is illegal. Yes and no. In a strict legal sense yes,
And even there, a dr can decide in the particular circumstances it is the safest decision; read the SCOTUS decision.

But it is distinction without a difference. One can use saline that accomplishes the job. Does it make a difference if I hang you by the neck or
put a bullet in your brain or put a rubber hose from exhaust into your car while you are taking a nap.

IT is more pschological than anything else.

IF any Dr was tried this partial abort he would have to win. Why; you would have witnesses on both sides from medical area, So what is a jury to decide;
reasonable doubt about it was the safest for the health of mother.

The decision for those who love liberty was a terrible one because

SOCTUS inserted itself into a medical decision; read the decision;

they came down on the side of drs who said was not necessary; whereas others said it was the safest for women;

Do you want a court deciding this? We already have in Canada a legislature deciding on how long you have to wait to get a hip replacement

I got mine in one month; In canada wait can be a year. IT is not for govt to intrude on medical decisions where the medical field has no consensus.

It was a bad decision; we now have before the SOCTUS an appeal from appeals court which upheld the FDA refusal to allow dying cancer patients the use of experimental drugs still on trials. As if a cancer patient has anything to lose
Your support of partial birth decision is in the same ball park as the above decision: giving govt the power to decide what is best for patients.


BE careful what you ask for.

renny
My thoughts and prayers are with your family. God bless you.

C'mon You Folks...
For the life of me I cannot see how any human being who has ever seen, or even read an accurate description of a partial birth abortion, could possibly support this butchery.

During oral arguments when the ban on partial birth abortions was before the Supreme Court, the lawyer defending the procedure claimed it was safer for the mother...I believe he said woman, not mother (telling, no?)...than an abortion earlier in her term because fewer instruments had to be inserted into her body.

Chief Justice Roberts then asked the lawyer whether it might be better, then, to allow the baby to be fully born and then kill it, thus requiring no instruments to be inserted into the woman's body.

As I understand it, the lawyer did not have answer.

Please, God, forgive me for my sins, and save us
from this holocaust.

baseballdoc
You point out that late term abortions are gruesome. Agreed or at least I would feel such if I observed them. I watched an autopsy once and very uncomfortable. So should we stop autopsies? And so late term abortions were not gruesome; suppose, they injected some that dissolved fetus into dust not obsevable. Would that change your view on abortion. i think not.

So why bring it up. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. So, why not require a recruiter for the army to show gruesome pictures of men have their brains splattered over the tank; arms flying; why not show collateral damage where babies are blown to bits. Notice our govt does not show the caskets of dead soldiers, not even gruesome, arriving in the US from Iraq.

The rightness or wrongness of abortion has nothing to do with the techniques being gruesome. It falls or survives on a matter of principle.

len
To compare a partial birth abortion to an autopsy is disingenuous. As the wife of a soldier and pathologist, and having done volunteer work for young ladies that have experienced an abortion, I think I have some background from which to draw.

As for recruiters showing pictures of collateral damage: I can speak for our local offices, since my hubby is required to provide them with any material that prospective recruits would like to see. That includes autopsy and casualty pictures, as long as the identity of the soldier is protected.

The military will not show the caskets, for the simple reason that the FAMILIES wish to protect their privacy. My husband knows first-hand, since he had to place our fallen soldiers on Angle Flights while he was down range. It was an honor for him, and those who volunteered.

driveby, look up 'open letter to Holly..
drivebyposting writes: Saturday, October, 27, 2007 11:59 AM
What Brent Bozell will tell you.
300, a movie about war and killing, was highly praised by the conservatives on this site.

But that's not my point. There is a LARGE trend that Bozell will not admit.

If one goes to Yahoo! and looks at the Box Office numbers over the last few years, a trend becomes apparent.

Animated family features about trolls and penguins trump them all. The studios are cranking out animated family films at blazing speeds. That is a LARGE trend.

...

What Brent Bozell XXXXXXIV will not tell you is the LARGE trend that family value content has had a great rise in Hollywood over the last three years. Perhaps if he did that he'd have to start giving credit to Hollywood for things done right as encouragement to keep it up, which is how most proper behavior is successfully encouraged.

Somehow Brent Bozel IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII writing an encouragement piece for Hollywood doesn't seem likely. Its not red meat for the liberal hating crowd.
________________________________________________

driveby, you seem to dislike Brent Bozell III. And you seem to be bent on proving him wrong about the 'new' trend. You may be right about your analysis of the 'new' Hollywood trend not being so new, but between the two of you, I choose Brent as being correct, and I choose you as less than correct. I recommend you read 'An open letter to Hollywood' at http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186949,00.html and you will see Hollywood prostitution in action. Hollywood does not want to entertain any more, they want to proselytize.

len, you are trying too hard
len writes: Saturday, October, 27, 2007 10:19 PM
baseballdoc
You point out that late term abortions are gruesome. Agreed or at least I would feel such if I observed them. I watched an autopsy once and very uncomfortable. So should we stop autopsies? And so late term abortions were not gruesome; suppose, they injected some that dissolved fetus into dust not obsevable. Would that change your view on abortion. i think not.
_____________________________________________

len, autopsies are necessary, partial birth abortions are not. Are you drunk again? What is this nonsense about an injection dissolving a fetus? What if my aunt had wheels? She'd be a cart. Man, dry out for your own sake and ours, too.

jim, asking a ridiculous question
jim writes: Saturday, October, 27, 2007 12:35 PM
And I ask again,
Doc writes: Saturday, October, 27, 2007 10:42 AM
Bob Novakaine scribbles:
A fetus is, quite simply, not a baby.

IMHO, Wrong, sorry, but life begins at conception!
---------------

I sure hope that name is phoney, we don’t need a Doc with this absolutely false idea.

Just check Genesis 2, verse 6 or 7 or thereabouts, life begins at breath.

...

----
And I ask again,

Are you one of those who watch TV news stories of starving babies and cheer, and say, "At least she didn't get an abortion!"
_________________________________________________

And I answer again: No, we are not people who watch tv news stories of starving babies and cheer, and say, "At least she didn't get an abortion!"

This is the most ignorant accusation I have heard. Get rid of it, it does you no good.

ylg
my point on autopsy was not they are the same; my point was they make us uncomfortable; and that is irrelevant to whether abortion should be legal or not; watching someone in the electric chair makes us uncomfortable; the right or wrong, morally and legally about abortion stands on its own without emotion.

The caskets. I dont kno how that protects the privacy of the family. The caskets are not labelled with names. No one knows who these nameless caskets belong to. The govt does not show them for good reason; it causes people to be anti-war; and what should decide a policy on war is not emotion.

As to the recruiters, I am sure they dont volunteer to show them gory pictures of beheadings, brains splattered, or children blown apart by collateral damage. It could be that someone would ask to see such; but I doubt it.\\

A doctor does not voluntarily show a breast cancer an operation of a breast being lopped off. Not a good idea. But that has nothing to do with whether to go thru with the operation.

The point is that abortion, pro or con, had to stand on its own right as to how one evaluates the conceptus at various stages. Not on emotion of the moment

luis
You say late term abortion are not necessary or is it the method.

Let us assume they are necessary for sake of this argument in certain cases;
then who is to decide the best method. The govt; you; or the Doctor.
There is controversy about this method as there is controversy about various other surgical procedures. IT is not for the govt to decide or you.

Your only legitmate beef on whether to do late term abortions. The method is not your concern or anyone;s except the patient and doctor who discuss what the best option is and the patient can decide since it is her that is at risk. Abortion is no different than any other surgical procedure where the doctor and patient discuss options.

Your thinking is very narrow in wanting govt to be the doctor. There is a case pending before SCOTUS in which lower upheld FDA preventing the use of experimental drugs in trial for use on cancer patients who are dying. Good for you that you approve of the govt interfering in this patient DR relationship. You are so wrapped in the abortion that you overlook establishing bad precedents.\

Make your argument on abortion; not the method.


luis
Life begins at conception so you say. What does that mean.
Without live sperm. no conception. Good English sentence. My life began when live sperm met a live egg. IF luis stole that sperm when he castrated my father, I would not be here. So that wise guy luis aborted me.
I would not be here if luis did that. I would not be here if luis did not castrate my father but my mother had miscarriage or aborted.

So there a few ways my life could have been snuffed out. It is arbitrary to pick one part in a chain.

Even your bible speaks harshly about spilling the seed. Check out Onan.

Right luis.

len
The caskets: notice I said the FAMILIES are the ones who have asked the military to shield them, so that the anti-war camp cannot use them in propaganda.

The recruiters: I know of a few recruits that have asked to see what the horrors are like. The recruiters cannot volunteer the pics, but they must provide them if asked to. As of this day, no one that has seen the pics has decided to forgo enlistment locally.

You are correct about the mastectomy pics. But the doctor has to show the patient if she asks. And some have, and some don't. It is still an emotionall-charged decision.

I see your point, but the truth is that for abortion, mastectomies, caskets, and casualties, there will always be emotion involved. You can't surgically remove it.

luis
if violent and emotional speech is a predictor of physical violence, i would not put past you to have castrated my father if you knew that would avoided my birth to give you a hard time. Lucky me, you did not know.

renny, partial birth abortion not quite
renny writes: Saturday, October, 27, 2007 6:33 PM
At least partial births are
illegal.
______________________________________________

...illegal.

You have not read about the holes in the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial abortion ban. Those holes are big enough to continue partial birth abortions. Link to http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1860885/posts and you will see the perfidy of the Supreme Court decision. There are many other discussions on the subject, including at American Life League, all.org, and New Oxford Review.

We will pray for your son and daughter in law in their situation. God will bless them abundantly for their courage.

len, you are incoherent
len, you really have to give up the booze.

ylg
Regardless of families' requests; i doubt the govt would invite camera crews when the planes land in Delaware. I know if I were the govt, I would not want that.

War is horrible. IT is a neccesary evil for a greater good; there is no point in upsetting people. That is why soldiers in battle do not usually write home of the gory details. At least from watch Ken Burns the war, i got that impression.

The point is that abortion whichever side you come down to should have nothing to with the method of abortion which may be gory

luis
you are a gem; but your arguments are of drunken sailor; but since you are a sailor, i respect that and i respond with humor to make you feel better.

Never would I ever thought of aborting you if I knew what would come out.

We need characters and you one. I say that positively. Many people are dull; you liven up the party.

luis
For once you are right on the partial birth decision. It does have exceptions.

But even if it did not, it could never be enforced. IF they brought a doctor to trial, you would have expert witnesses on each side; and the jury would come out with reasonable doubt.

That is why it was a bad decision. it substitued a court for a medical decision. I think it was a sop to the anti choice movement.

Bad law. Leave to you, the court would decide what is the best procedure for heart surgery.

len
You know, the sad part is, I was going to respond to the basis of the column, namely, how critics tend to react to certain movies. You post caught me off guard, to say the least!

I don't support abortion, and would rather the states did the enactment of such laws.

However, for my two cents about the column: I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would listen to a movie critic. Roger Ebert failed at making movies, for crying out loud!! His claim to fame is the screenplay for 'Beyond the Valley of the Dolls'! IMHO, critics failed at movie-making, so the decided to criticize them instead!

Thanks for the talk, and I hope you have a good night!

ylg
i am pro choice on legal grounds and i would be pro choice even i thought one should not abort.

I have no objection to persuading people; and movies are fine.

You are stuck with critics and the newspapers people buy, Not much different than op ed columns on many different issues. The msm is pro choice. What are you going to do?

luis
Life begins at conception. Does a person begin at conception? Are they the same thing.

You have to study St Thomas Acquinas because the concept of cause has infinite regression. You say the start of person begins at conception,
But you can go back a step further and further.

So it comes down at what point people in a society give special value to an event in a long chain.

IF sperm you donated to a testtube before you went off to war in case you would not come back and your wife still wanted your child or in case you got wounded in the testicles, you would be very angry at me if I i took that testube and dumped in the fire, You would scream at me

Len, you destroyed the life of my potential child, And, you would every right to shoot me, And I would not complain as I lie dying; i deserved it.

A Miscarrage is a babies death
truthseeker writes:
Saturday, October, 27, 2007 10:28 AM
to pretend that these babies are not babies even if a miscarriage is ignorant
---
Life begins at conception. A fetus is: unborn offspring: an unborn vertebrate at a stage when all the structural features of the adult are recognizable, especially an unborn human offspring after eight weeks of development.
---
Just thought you would like to know, I make the same mistakes. It is a lost child.

Truthseeker is right
Bob Novakaine wrotte
Saturday, October, 27, 2007 10:13 AM one third of all pregancies end in a miscarraige in the first tri-mester. these are simply not babies. they are fetuses, potential humans that never become. to pretend that these fetuses are "babies" or "children" is ignorant.
---
Truthseeker is right.

Life begins at conception. A fetus is: unborn offspring: an unborn vertebrate at a stage when all the structural features of the adult are recognizable, especially an unborn human offspring after eight weeks of development.
---
Just thought you would like to know, I make the same mistakes. It is a lost child.

You Make It all Worth While!
y'all call me Pappy wrote:
Saturday, October, 27, 2007 10:42 AM
Thanks, Spiceman 7:38am
Excellent post!

>> "A thought good or evil
>> ... first an act
>> . . . . then a habit.
>> . . . . . . So runs life’s law."
>> --By Ralph Waldo Trine

I have followed that path to ends that I regret.

At other times it has led me to blessings beyond my dreams.

In each case, I chose the direction I would go.
I continue to face choices. I'm getting better.

Thank You, Lord.
---
I hope your stamp of approval may touch others as you have made me feel my efforts are worth while. Sharing of valued principles that bridge the traditions of all ages, leading to joy and freedom in truth, and to live with gratitude for the life that is entrusted to us by a loving Father in Heaven. Life is precious at any stage.

“As we think we travel. As we entertain we choose. Moreover, as we dream and aspire we plan and pursue." by Phillip L. Hansen - "Inspiration To Live By"

Maude? Really?
How old is that show? I appreciate that there are a handful of films--and one sitcom--in which abortions have occurred. But that is out of a constant deluge of entertainment media over several decades. More often what I see is something like: Girl gets knocked up, agonizes over whether to have an abortion, then gets hit by a car crossing the street in front of the clinic, triggering a convenient miscarriage (Models, inc.--anyone remember that?).

I'm not saying that most people in showbiz aren't pro-choice, but I think you'll find that most of them are making movies for the audience, and will shy away from offending the audience's sensibilities.

TV/Movie Propaganda
Eagle Burger writes: Sunday, October, 28, 2007 3:16 PM
Maude? Really?
How old is that show? I appreciate that there are a handful of films--and one sitcom--in which abortions have occurred. But that is out of a constant deluge of entertainment media over several decades. More often what I see is something like: Girl gets knocked up, agonizes over whether to have an abortion, then gets hit by a car crossing the street in front of the clinic, triggering a convenient miscarriage (Models, inc.--anyone remember that?).

I'm not saying that most people in showbiz aren't pro-choice, but I think you'll find that most of them are making movies for the audience, and will shy away from offending the audience's sensibilities.
***************
Bogus. That may have been the case in the past, but nowadays they are more and more brazen in promoting their agenda. If you can't see it, you are blind.

Robert, Mr Combat
Cavilairly(sp) able to disarm a knife wielding madman.
Naval Aviator, Rank Capt.
Holding up the halp us jon carry sign in the famous photo (his dad was beaming with pride for number one son)..........uuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh except not the famous photo your thinking about. Robert "naval aviator, rank Capt." until recently flying regular combat air patrol up to the point when he was informed of the inconsistency of rank and duty claimed.
Robert will soon be found to be calling me as one of his valued study subjects
well I may be the villiage idiot, however in the arena of ideas this idiot gives the overeducated O-6 an F in ideas and the persuasion there of.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.