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Friday, October 19, 2007
Brent Bozell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Abstainers Are Killers?
by Brent Bozell
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Portland, Maine, found itself in the national spotlight on the morning of Oct. 17. The King Middle School was debating whether to provide birth control to sixth-graders without their parents' consent or knowledge -- not just condoms, but even birth control pills or contraceptive patches.

ABC's "Good Morning America" picked up the story, with anchor Diane Sawyer first professing shock at the young ages involved, but then echoing the proponents' justification: Children "are caught in the changing worlds of early puberty and sexual messages everywhere."

That's the line that rings in the ear. ABC is addressing a social problem: How to deal with middle-schoolers wanting to have sex because they're inundated with sexual messages in ads, in music videos, with sexual themes endlessly discussed and dramatized on television?

Sawyer invited on talk show host Glenn Beck and "sexologist" Logan Levkoff (promoted by fans as the "Get It On Guru") to debate it. Sawyer asked Levkoff: "Would you draw the line anywhere? What if it were grade school?" Amazingly, she replied, "I don't necessarily draw the line, because we're in a world where we get so many sexual messages."

Levkoff lives in a parallel universe. We are talking about little boys and little girls, 11 years old.

The lesson from the anything-goes crowd is so illogical it borders on the obscene. In order to "protect the youth" from unsavory sexual messages, we should provide them will all the technology so they can have "safe sex" -- even at age 11. But who is responsible for this bombardment of sexual messaging in our culture that's fueling this fire?

ABC and all the other networks, along with many of their advertisers, need look no further than the mirror. More than any other element in our society, it is they who are responsible for the deluge, primarily -- though not exclusively -- through their entertainment products.

It's bad enough that they refuse to take any responsibility for their own sleazy product. But what's unconscionable is that TV dramatists are now portraying those who want to keep children free and safe from premature sexual activity as mentally disturbed, even as a social menace.

The swaggering shysters of ABC's "Boston Legal" went to court on Oct. 9 on behalf of a high-school girl who contracted the HIV virus from "unprotected" sex with a boy. The girl in this script sued not the infecting boy, not the boy's parents, but the high school that taught abstinence-only sex education.

The school's crime was its failure to advance the righteousness of the Almighty Condom, which the "Boston Legal" lawyer ridiculously claimed was "arguably, the single most important invention of the past 2,000 years." Resistance to pop culture and peer pressure is futile, he argued. "They're simply going to do it! We all do it. Birds do it, bees do it, educated fleas do it. Onetime unprotected sex can kill you. A condom can save you." With a flourish, the lawyer concluded his sermon, "We should be in criminal court this very moment trying this obscenely duplicitous school for conspiracy to commit murder."

ABC only suggested murder as a rhetorical device. CBS took it to the next level. On its drama "Cold Case," abstinence advocates are presented as killers. In the Sept. 30 episode, detectives were investigating a 1998 murder, only to discover the devoutly Christian teens in the "Hearts Wait" abstinence club turned out to be sexually active hypocrites who murdered one of their own members to keep their sins secret.

When the victim tried to convince her club-mates that their teenage lust was understandable, they responded by denouncing her as "dirty," a "whore," a "slut," and the B-word, before stoning her to death, while citing the Old Testament. Their leader, a youth minister, had one student confess her teenage lust for him with her back turned, so he could pleasure himself as she spoke.

The idea that Christian teenagers stone people to death could only come from a fevered brain in Tinseltown. In terms of cultural politics, this is simply mudslinging -- a vile smear that requires no troublesome facts as it points an accusatory finger.

The get-it-on gurus who push "protection" are really encouraging sex between children. Like Hollywood, "sexologists" such as Levkoff see themselves waging war "on a culture that condemns all things sexual." But they're really waging a war on anyone who suggests a limitation, anyone who wants to draw a line.

Anyone who wants a child to wait, to grow and mature before leaping into bed or a back seat, is evil, deeply sick and even capable of murder.

Meanwhile, the King School in Portland voted yes to secret contraceptives for 11-year-olds.

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About The Author
Founder and President of the Media Research Center, Brent Bozell runs the largest media watchdog organization in America.
 
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But you must sexualize children to get
them ready for step two, the sexual predators or pedophiles that are coming. Soon, child marriages and don't forget those teachers that need a little love too.

Saw that disgusting show on "Cold Case." Just confirms my impressions of it. Search out old cases for Penal Geriatric medicine research.

Amen, well now
That is EXACTLY what these freak pedophiles are doing. Sexualizing children so that men can have sex with them with no consequences. Think I am wrong? Check out NAMBLA.IT is one of the last taboos to fall and I am absolutely certain it will fall in our lifetimes. They will convince society that even three year olds can have consent.

Kudos for our CIC
It should be abundantly clear to anyone with functioning synapses that abstinence-only education (AOE) is foolproof when taught to good children who listen to their teachers and simply do what they’re told to do. If a child cares enough about his or her own well-being to not want to get pregnant/impregnate someone or catch an STD, all he or she needs to do is avoid having any sort of sexual contact with anyone of the opposite sex. Of course, teachers of abstinent-only education and education in general have frequently run into the problem of children not listening and not doing what they’re told to do in many areas, including their sexual conduct. And of course, there is also the tiny little problem of hormones dictating much of teen behavior, often causing their decisions to bypass cranial defenses when their lustful urges are too powerful for them to ignore. For those children who don’t want to avoid sexual contact, due to Teen Invincibility Syndrome (TIS), condoms provide at least some measure of protection for them and their partners.


continued
But the teachings of most AOE programs include wildly inflated statistics on condom failure rates that convince their naïve students that it is better to have sex without a condom than with one. As many AOE programs are rooted in religious beliefs, their students see less harm in committing one sin by having sex than in committing two sins by having sex and using a condom as a form of birth control and STD prevention. Are we doing a disservice to our youth by not teaching them the facts of sex, including the risks as well as proper practice of sex as a means of encouraging fewer teen parents who have fewer STDs? I believe not. Any teen who is not able to control his or her sexual urges and who catches an STD in the process is soon to be one less irresponsible, ignorant person who will be with us on earth. In addition, having an STD will make these worthless children much less appealing as sexual partners which will greatly reduce the likelihood of their genes being spread to the next generation.


and finally...
Although the greatest benefit of AOE is its complete lack of accurate information provided to homosexual youth which increases the risk that they will, albeit deservedly, contract HIV or another nasty STD that should sideline them in the near future from enjoying the joy that life has to offer. Bravo to President Bush for his forward-thinking in support AOE programs. Without them, we might see teens choosing to enjoy the love and passion of sexual relationships without the burden of pregnancy or disease, not to mention the potential for fostering the development and acceptance of gay youth. If only we can convince Rudy to change his twisted stance on gay marriage we might have a strong contender for 2008.

Step two is already here
Well, now....I understand that the District of Columbia has already dropped its legal consent age for sexual relations to 16. This is what I predict is going to be the real Step 2: the elimination of consent ages for sex altogether throughout much of this country. Ironically, the feminists who are apparently cheering on the sexualization of our children are doing the worst kind of disservice to those they will pass the torch to. I predict among the next generation of militant feminists, you're going to have over-represented in that sorority women who were the victims of forced sexual activity at very young ages - all because the culture their feminist forbears brought about encouraged the very bestiality by men toward women and girls that the feminists supposedly were fighting. Or were they really fighting it? Recall how they bit their tongues about Bill Clinton's sexual peccadillos, even when a woman came forward with a very credible charge of rape.

and finally...
Although the greatest benefit of AOE is its complete lack of accurate information provided to homosexual youth which increases the risk that they will, albeit deservedly, contract HIV or another nasty STD that should sideline them in the near future from enjoying the joy that life has to offer. Bravo to President Bush for his forward-thinking in support AOE programs. Without them, we might see teens choosing to enjoy the love and passion of sexual relationships without the burden of pregnancy or disease, not to mention the potential for fostering the development and acceptance of gay youth. If only we can convince Rudy to change his twisted stance on gay marriage we might have a strong contender for 2008.

Adults?
We seem to have no responsible adults in the entertainment culture. Money rules and anything goes to get more. Schools, especially colleges have abandoned the concept of in loco parentis. Mothers have jobs and little time or energy to be parents, they make up for this shortchanging of children by giving them things and allowing behaviors that would shock my parents (and me). Clergy do not speak out for fear of losing their dwindling flocks, money again. Politicans, of course, are hopeless, they won't speak up and put votes in peril.

The result is that youngsters are rudderless as they are exposed to inuendo and explicit sexual situations from every side.

The Bible has much to say about people who act as Americans do.

Adults?
We seem to have no responsible adults in the entertainment culture. Money rules and anything goes to get more. Schools, especially colleges have abandoned the concept of in loco parentis. Mothers have jobs and little time or energy to be parents, they make up for this shortchanging of children by giving them things and allowing behaviors that would shock my parents (and me). Clergy do not speak out for fear of losing their dwindling flocks, money again. Politicans, of course, are hopeless, they won't speak up and put votes in peril.

The result is that youngsters are rudderless as they are exposed to inuendo and explicit sexual situations from every side.

The Bible has much to say about people who act as Americans do.

The school
I don't think there have been any long term studies of the effects of oral contraceptives on the hormonal balances of pre-teens. I can see the shool being sued in the future for claims real or not from the now young girls. They may blame the pill for everything from infertility to acne to depression to bi-polar disorder, cancer etc.

By the way, have the manufacturers of these medications issued any comments in this case? They too could be held liable. Fools.

Please Remember
One of the first tenants of both communism and Democratic Socialism (Nazis, for those of you ont he left) was for the state to take the place of parents in roles of authority. Your children are not yours, they are the property of the state and movement to use as required. Religion was also banished for the same reasons. God simply stands in the way of total state authoritarianism.

Today's Democrat party are in the same vein. No parent will stand in the way of the state. As far as the Democrat party is concerned, your children are for their uses, parents be damned. your child will submit to the state. If you resist, the state will provide birth control and abortions, without parental knowledge or consent.

Welcome to eht Democrat/leftist vision. Remember, it takes a village, not parents.

NAMBLA on deck?
Maybe Good Morning America should ask NAMBLA to come on the show and discuss matters concerning 11-year-old children. Get their view point,etc.

Crazy? Never happen? Don't be too sure.

In his column, Mr. Bozell noted the reply by the "sexologist" to the question "Where would you draw the line?" The "sexologist", Logan Levkoff, WHO WAS ON THE SHOW, answered, "I don't necessarily draw the line, because we're in a world where we get so many sexual messages."

NAMBLA cheered! Bet on it!


Note to John Walsh: Keep finding as many pedophiles as possible and putting them in jail. The way things are going in a few years you might not be able to.

Note to bintexas: You're absolutly right!!!!








Enemies of the State: God & Family
Amen ThinkPeople!

Pre-Head Start gets the children out of their family care practically as soon as they are weened.

Public school educational monopolies insure that only state-controlled propaganda is provided to the majority of school-age children.

Rights of parenthood are continuously undermined by leftist courts, school systems and public health bureaucracies.

Universities have become little more than propagandistic finishing schools for leftist ideologies, now that the ranks of administration and professoriate are filled with and controlled by cadres of aging 60s-era radical fascists.

"Give me a child until the age of seven, and I will give you a communist for life" -- V.I. Lenin

"We will conquer you from within" Nikita Khruschev

If it walks like a duck...
Control of the language has been a cornerstone of the radical left's strategy since the time of Lenin. His ideological descendents in this country appear to taken his maxim to levels not even conceived by ol' Vlad himself.

Witness the manner in which so many words have been successfully turned on their heads by the leftists in order to accomplish ulterior aims of subterfuge. Words like "hate," "free speech," "rights," "diversity," and "tolerance" have been coopted for their strong emotion-evoking value, but have then been morphed in their meanings to connote different ideas without losing their emotive value.

Educators
In Linda Shavez's column there are suggestions for educators to get better pay for their ability to teach more. Maybe they meant to indoctrinate more. I feel somewhere out there are some good teachers, apparantly not in Portland. I lamanted back in the 60's that someday these hippies would be teaching our children and running our country. Sad to say it seems I was right.

Disney strikes again
I had hoped that with the departure of the overtly anti-Catholic Michael Eisner that the Walt Disney Company (the parent of ABC) would at least tone down their attacks on decent people. Apparently that was whishful thinking.

Just once, I'd like Hollywood to depict life as it actually is in the real world, not as it is in their sick, twisted fantasy land.

As to the real story (about handing out prescription drugs to 6th graders without their parents' knowledge, never mind expressed consent) that sort of thing sickens me. Decent parents want to teach their children to wait until marriage before engaging in sexual activity. Anything less does the children a massive disservice. Yes, some children will ignore their parents, children do that. But the school should not take an active role in encouraging that behavior. That's no different than trying to indoctrinate children into a particular religion. By actively promoting sexual activity, the school is telling the children that their parents are wrong about encouraging abstainance.

The only 100% sure way to avoid pregnancy and disease is to avoid sex.

Happy Jake, Wolf, Sandman
The cultural war continues non-stop as decent, traditional Americans continue the up-hill fight.

The Entertainment Industry, the MSM and the country's educational system remain the battleground. The left, entrenched in those vital areas, is getting stronger.

I'm not optimistic. Dr. James Dobson has stated clearly he will not support either Rudy or Mitt. This, of course, delights Hillary and her friends, Moveon.org.

It's music to their ears.

And for us, it's a problem that can not be understated.

amoral society is us

I am convinced that most democrats are conservatives with no backbone. Those who don't want to "force their beliefs on others" and therefore jump on the PC bandwagon are to blame.

fred
you shouldnt ever force your beliefs on someone if usually drives thous who don't have your beliefs away. Got to use the carrot not the to convince people to your side permanatly.

Universities have become little more than propagandistic finishing schools for leftist ideologies, now that the ranks of administration and professoriate are filled with and controlled by cadres of aging 60s-era radical fascists.

it is really not that bad on universities all the professors i have had really try to stay out of politics during class. Heck my music teacher jokingly said he should have given me bous points for listening to Neal Boortz (though i am sure a lot of the people here dont like him)

scary
back to the article i wasnt even away that the birth control was effective untill puperty had fully taken affect. i knew a little girl whos parents put her on birth control at 13 but it just made her really sick so she is going to try again when she is older.

From melting pot
to chamber pot.

That is what The United States of America has become.

Yet the conservative wing continues to sit on it's behind and do nothing more than complain.

Tell me, what would have happened if a couple of thousand "parents" would have stepped away from "desparate housewives" and confronted the King Middle School board? What would happened if Joe Sixpack and Suzie Soccarmom would turn off "ABC" or "The View" and read a book with their children?

Answer: We just might see decency re-emerging in America.

Personally, I believe it the "do nothing" christian conservatives who are responsible for this absolute travesty. I feel a need to apologize to future generations for being a baby boomer; the stupidest generation in American (if not the world) history.

It's time to take a stand...
Public schools have become predators, preying on the innocence of children. It's time to get involved, speak out, work for change.

And until that change comes, it's time for sensible parents to pull their own children from these moral sewers and place them in home school or church school.

I'm suing my high skul
When I went to high skul our biology teacher drew two stick figures and said they have some equipment and do something and then download kids. 3 minutes ended that topic.

Anyway, two couples figured this out and we had 2 pregnancies in my 4 years in high skul.

I'm suing because I missed all the sex I was owed because of the failure of the skul to tell me about this stuff so I'd have confidence to get started rather than wait until late college.

I'm so glad the libtards are now teaching sex instead of the 3 R's. First things first.

chr
We dangled the carrot - the liberals ate it.

A Few good men
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to do nothing.

I homeschool my children. I will never ever place them in a public school. The mindset, far above that of teaching the 3 R's, is certainly to castigage the parental authority. Assume all parents are bad (especially Christian parents). Parents are idiots, listen to us teachers.

The college students are being brain-washed at the University level. Those same students yesterday are today's teachers! This has been going on for decades - which is why you see so few conservative professors in the Colleges.

I really believe the media (for the most part), education and the democrats are all in cahoots to cause social dependency, make us dependent upon government, it's all about power.

To do so requires:
1) Stripping us of moral decency - (moral relativism) by way of television, movies, music, presenting a new norm. Pushing Sex to kids. Telling us that whoredome is cool: BRATS dolls, Britney, Madonna, etc.
2) Minimalizing Christianity. ACLU, Democrats
3) Destroying parental authority. Education
4) Developing government dependance: welfare, food stamps, health services (condoms)
5) Opening our borders (more dependant foreigners) eating up taxes.
6) Stripping us of our wealth.
7) Sucking us dry with taxes. (no power)
8) Eating away our rights.

In short, a systematic, organized destruction of our American culture.

Like McDonalds, if they can get the kids early, they got em for life.

Hollywood Playwrights Defile Our Country
I saw that show on Boston Legal and was thoroughly disgusted. We're getting more and more propaganda from so-called "entertainment" TV series. The world liberals and Hollywood are trying to foist upon us stinks. Playwrights are incapable of writing any TV script that doesn't have a lot of sex in it, the more abnormal the better. People should start boycotting these shows and their advertisers. Now I'm beginning to really believe that the U.S. of A. will break up in the coming decades as law-abiding Christians try to prevent being pulled into the civilization sewer by the nihilists who believe in nothing but the satisfaction of their own appetites until death closes the lid on them. When the state takes over both the moral and sexual education and the upbringing of our children we have truly regressed to "1984." Perhaps we can begin to understand why the Islamist crazies accuse our culture of being decadent.

Leftist = pedophiles
I really don't need to say any more, but I will expound for those pedophiles...er, leftists...who may not comprehend simple math.

For decades we've seen the line of what is and is not acceptable behavior drawn and redrawn by kooky commies. While I admit that the uproar over Fred and Wilma Flintstone being shown in the same bed, and Barbara Eden shoing her naval were a bit silly, now we've gone WAY too far.

We have clothing makers like Abbercrombie and Fitch who fill their catelogs with soft core child pornography and marketing t-shirts with the words "With a pair of these, who needs brains?" accross the breast to 12-year-olds.

We have movies marketed to kids about how "cool" it is to sleep with your friend's mother.

We have 5-year-olds being given explicit details of the mating habits of perverts.

Now we even have schools implicitly telling 11-year-olds to screw anything that breaths.

Any THINKING person would not respond to the handing out of birth control to pre-pubescents by saying "well, they're gonna see sexual messages anyhow". A THINKING person would respond by saying "AHA! THAT is the problem!"

The problem is NOT the lack of birth control. The problem is we live in a society of leftist pedophiles who can't wait to get their filthy hands on a 5-year-old, and have that be socially accepted.

I hope that
in articles like these, law enforcement is monitoring the blogs to see who supports giving 11 year olds the pill. I hope they investigate these supporters along with the crazy school board up there in that Maine district. I'm sure a massive number of arrests for lewd conduct (among other things) will result if this happens.

Libs are nuts!
How is it the same people who are hell bent on driving the tobacco industry into bankruptcy because of its dangers can promote unhealthy sexual relations? Condoms and birth control pills don't always work where as abstinance does. I have a 26 year old daughter who was on the pill thanks to her mom but got pregnant her second year in college. Now I understand the lib solution is a trip to the abortion clinic and all's well. Not quite that easy. I wouldn't give anything for my granddaughter but had my daughter not hopped in the sack she would have went to grad school rather than getting a degree in Food Sciences because it was easier than pre-med. Going to school and being a single mom are not exaclty easy. But alas she was "liberated" and that is all that matters.

I am John Doe!

We Teach Kids to Abstain from ...
We teach kids to abstain from playing with matches. Playing with matches maims, kills, and destroys.

We teach kids to abstain from talking to strangers. Plausible perverts abuse, abduct, and kill.

We teach kids to abstain from drugs. Drugs maim, kill, and destroy.

We teach kids to abstain from smoking. Smoking sickens and kills.

We teach kids to abstain from drinking and driving. Drinking and driving maims, kills, and ruins lives.

We teach kids to abstain from bullying.

We teach kids to abstain from racism.

Abstaining from these things works -- kids who are taught them and who have that teaching reinforced by society are safer from fire, from kidnapping, from auto accidents, from lung cancer, and so on through the list. Abstinence works.

Why is the idea of teaching kids to abstain from pre-marital sex so difficult to grasp?

Giving contraceptives to 6th graders is like making sure they have filters on their cigarettes or making sure that they have safety matches to light them with.

Its like telling them that bullying and racism are OK if its only verbal and they don't actually hit anyone.

The thing to do with a kid who wants to have sex is to stop them from doing something so wildly inappropriate and dangerous.

Next we'll hear that the school is offering breathalyzer testing to make sure that kids intending to steal a car to go joyriding aren't driving drunk.

Its pure insanity!

I think these
pill pushers are demon possessed--must be the case.

the twisted logic of the left
One can see why Bozell rails against the twisted logic of the left. After all in his example the left is trying to protect children from the dangers that face them in the world the way it actually is. Bozell is naturally right that we should be concerned with protecting children from the dangers that would face if the world was the way we wish it was.

Obviously it is wrong to try to protect children from the sexualized world we live in, when it would be better if the world wasn't so sexualized.

Saying teaching abstinence
won't work because not all will practice it is flawed logic.

Don't take showers daily cause some don't do it and you'll just start to stink again anyway.

Don't sleep 8 hours a day cause lots of people don't do that--and anyway you'll just get sleepy again.

Don't exercise, you're going to die anyway--and a lot of people don't exercise anyway.

Hey, everytime I don't touch a hot waffle iron it doesn't burn me.


Roadkill58
Your daughter was an adult; she was SUPPOSED to have sex.

Leave abstinence for the little kiddies.

Lon--these are 11 year olds--passing out
pills to them isn't protection--clue bird needed!!!

I can protect my kids--I have the legal system, a ball bat, and a gun.

Eleven year olds, Lon?! What makes you mad Lon? Does anything?

Boston Legal
while still funny, is starting to go into a frenzy with their lefty "moralizing". As with Cold Case, they have to go build a huge fictional fantasy land in order to "prove" their inane points.

Concerning the silly teen with HIV plot. I found it funny that the argument was that the children should have been taught to use condoms since they weren't going to listen to the teacher on abstinance. If they were going to disregard one lesson, what makes you think they are more inclined to follow another?

Greg
The reason teaching abstinence will not work is because abstinence is as popular as homosexuality.

bdz77
Hey roadkills daughter was an adult and she made and adult choice. His problem with it was that instead of listening to him and keeping her legs closed she still got pregnant using a supposedly 99% effective birth control method (point blank there is still that 1% chance there that it won't work. And condoms have an even worse failure rate in real life than in the clinical studies -- whether you want to hear it or not.) Point blank, if you want to mess around, at least wait until you get your education taken care of so that noone else will be taking care of you when that positive sign shows up on the pregnancy test after your first missed period. And another thing, make sure that when you do mess around it is with someone who wants more from you than a night in the sack. That's just plain logic.

To dbz77
Just cause some engage in the activity, it does not justify giving out the pill to 11 year olds--period.

TV, Murderers,Pedophiles and Bad Parents
Bozell 100% right in saying that television and Hollywood promote, encourage, defend and support every sexual depravity known to man. Moreover TV and Hollywood deliberately target children with sexual depravity.

Levkoff is one step away from being another John Evander Couey. Couey was just convicted of raping, torturing and then butchering a 10 year old girl. Couey got his 'ideas' from TV.

There is not one crime against humanity that has not been extolled and promoted to young people by TV and Hollywood.

However parents and grandparents are just as guilty for allowing children to watch the animalistic displays on TV and in movies. No one disagrees that the TV Nazis like Levkoff routinely show violent perverts having sex and murdering children etc. But parents know it's going on and they do nothing to prevent their children from seeing it.


Boston Legal
I've watched the usually funny show since its inception. However, in their ridiculous attempt at flawed left wing propaganda, they not only were not funny, but they lost me as a viewer.
PERMANENTLY.

Half an Ounce of Common Sense
To anyone with half and ounce of common sense telling 11yo's "No, you can't have condoms and birth control pills because you're not allowed to have sex," requires no more justification than saying, "No, you can't have EOD gear because you're not allowed to play in the minefield."

The right thing for a school nurse to do when an 11yo asks for condoms or birth control pills is to notify the kid's parents -- BOTH of them, regardless of custodial status -- that the kid is trying to sneak under the fence and get into the minefield.

dbz77 writes:
Roadkill58
Your daughter was an adult; she was SUPPOSED to have sex.

Leave abstinence for the little kiddies.

Yea right, and that type of thinking is what created the current situation. People like you don't think past the now. If it feels good do it reprocussions be damned. There has not been one day she has not had to deal with her decision and I can't count the times she has told me she made a big mistake. The real issue here is some self appointed amoralist handing out birth control pills to young kids without parental concent all because some "progressive" thinks its cool. If youg girls had spent a day living my daughter's life they would have been scarred celebate. And it affects the whole family. Having a kid isn't cheap and when the father is an idiot it makes it harder. I have noticed a lot of grandparents raising their children's children because they played around and had kids before being mature enough to raise them. But hey pass out the rubbers and the pill so the dbz77s in our society can have a good time without risk right. That is what it's all about isn't it? I'd be willing to bet you are a young male 18-35 who believes life is a party and thinks with your little head. Am I right?

Roadkill58
dbz77 has no credibility on any moral issue because he actually believes that the desire not to be laughed at is a legitimate justification for having casual sex.

He revealed his essential lack of seriousness months ago but still wanders around spouting off as if his desire to jump in bed with anyone without bearing any responsibilities along with it was a self-evident right that was only left out of the Declaration of Independence because no one had laughed at the Founding Fathers.

mother of 4 makes a point, there's more
Mother of 4 makes a valid point. Since this story and this article skip something important to the school's motive: that children that young have already turned up with diseases and pregnant.
I am horrified that parents are not notified, because obviously a child doesn't have the physical, cognitive nor emotional ability to deal with a serious adult issue.
And they might be the victims of sexual abuse.
We have to be REALISTIC about facts and situations that young people are in.
In my law enforcement experience, young girls were exploited and abused in their own families by a relative. Sometimes their own fathers. A school is obligated to notify authorities if this is likely.
Abstinence until marriage, is unrealistic. And gay children are left out of the equation of the emotional impact of their sexuality altogether and are abused by their parents and school and church authorities for it, with often terrible (and unnecessary) consequences for it.
What young people need is to be prepared, and offered full information on the intense, very real and important emotions and experiences they are having. Adults CANNOT lie and give fantasy to this issue.
Abstinence isn't exactly addressing emotions and the physiology of puppy love and imagery in our society, but an head in the sand approach. Not only that, but our society is VERY gender biased on the exploitation of females and the lack of respect men and boys have for them in general.
I'm frustrated at how children are sold out with extremes of either fear mongering or lack of addressing their realities. And obviously, NEITHER works.

A Strange World
While we're giving contraceptives to 11-year-olds --

-- if they happen to make use of those contraceptives --

-- we will arrest them for engaging in statutory rape --

bias is glaring, and dangerous
Social bias on gender is clearly damaging and unforgivably backward. Someone on this thread made a stupid comment on NAMBLA, but ignores, as does society at large, the sexual exploitation of girls by males of all range of ages.
Girls are taught to ignore or deny their original assertivness or street sense regarding their treatment by males.
Schoolyard bullying and alpha dog behavior goes unchallenged, and this has direct correlation to school shootings.
The adults in charge, even clergy (who can be terribly out of touch), cannot be counted on to address this bias. Whether it's about the artifice of gender 'roles' or lack of perspective on how pernicious parent ignorance and neglect are, is at the heart of this.
Parents themselves, rather than engaging in a necessary refresher course on sexuality, would rather shut down classes and information they judge inappropriate, instead of entertaining the idea that THEY are as much in need of some further education themselves. This is why they shouldn't be the sole or too influential arbiters of what should be taught in a school.
Some children are in dire need of information, if not actual protective tools regarding sex.
I agree that grade school is entirely too young an age to be given out ANY safe sex items.
However, I have to ask why these schools to it. It must be a failure somewhere and children that young ARE turning up with STD's and pregnant. That's not the school's failure, it's the failure of some of the parents, and the school is hard pressed to figure out another way to save lives.
The hysteria over the HPV vaccination is a case in point.
It's not a gateway TO sexual activity, but a protective measure for when a girl becomes an adult, she is protected. Vaccinations are about preparing the body's defenses, and if that age group is the best time for the HPV vaccine, so be it.


in conclusion
Abstinence and celibacy IS a viable option for CHILDREN, and even adults are ambiguous about adult behavior. But there are physiological reasons why a child cannot and should not engage in adult behavior.
However, celibacy and abstinence without addressing the emotional qualities and relationship needs and preparing the young OR adults for them, has turned into the morass we see now.
People don't want to wait, lack patience or the skills to develop DEEP and meaningful bonds.
Gay children are kept at a complete distance from this and are not encouraged to form these bonds with another gay person, let alone TALK about it or hope for marriage to that person. This grossly inhumane, and unfair, and most of the people here in TH are extemely ignorant, cruel and hypocritical about this issue and gay kids.
How can a gay child, seeing affection between their own parents, the relationships budding in their siblings and peers in schools, be expected to tolerated COMPLETE singularity, when all around them are forming love bonds, and they are told 'but not for you'.
It's that lonliness and isolation that creates the very maladjustment or arrested development that's caused a range of problems in the young. Especially premature sexual activity. This isolation creates vulnerability. Repression isn't healthy either, and some people expect abstinence to get to extremes in gay children and the results are not good either.
Denial of one's feelings never are. Denial of one's needs aren't either, for the individual or that of the school's obligations to information and outreach.
This new revelation seems extreme, but it shouldn't have gotten THIS far without something being very wrong long before.
Too many parents ARE failures, don't blame the schools for that.

Unrealistic Expectations
" Abstinence until marriage, is unrealistic. "

No, it's not.

The problem is these days we don't EXPECT abstinence until marriage.

People, especially children, are loathe to exceed what's expected of them. If you don't *expect* excellence, then there's no surprise when you don't get it.

Aim high. Even if you miss (and many will), you'll at least get higher than if you aimed low.

du
Thank you. The possibility of a child being sexually exploited by a family is why I said that BOTH parents should be notified. I should add that I mean both the custodial and non-custodial in the case of an ordinary divorce that doesn't already involve parental misconduct.

However, there is nothing the least bit unrealistic about teaching kids to practice abstinence until marriage.

Many people achieve it, not by ignorance of what is occurring, but by being taught that certain feelings will occur and that certain temptations will present themselves and then being guided to make the deliberate choice to master those feelings and to avoid the occasions for temptation that might exceed the limits of that mastery.

The fact that some kids take up smoking anyway doesn't mean that teaching kids not to smoke is unrealistic.

Of course abstinence is made much harder than it needs to be by people running around talking as if people were nothing but animals in heat who can't possibly be capable of controlling their instincts. It would be made easier if, instead of undermining abstinence at every turn, society reinforced abstinence from pre-marital sex in the same way it reinforces abstinence from tobacco, racism, and drunk driving.

Abstinence is not a means of exploiting women and showing them a lack of respect. Guys looking for hook-ups without consequences are exploiting women and people who claim that women can't cope with and master their sexual desire are the ones showing a lack of respect.

Corrections
I meant to say, "the possibility of a child being sexually exploited by a family member, ..."

Typical
Liberals ALWAYS land on the side of perversion, because PERVERTS are a KEY CONSTITUENCY for them.

ABSTINENCE WORKS EVERY TIME

.....Abstinence can never lead to an unwanted pregnacy ...only not practicing abstinence can do that ...

.....Has anyone ever done a study on whether cases of breast cancer have increased since woman went on the pill and stoped breast feeding? ...just curious .....COLOSSUS

Gay Children?
Did you really write these words, du? Here is the entire sentence you posted at 2:13 p.m.:

"Gay children are kept at a complete distance from this and are not encoruaged to form these bonds with another gay person, let alone TALK about it or hope for marriage to that person."

I know I'm missing something so I'll ask you, What "gay children" are you talking about?!

Also, please tell us who is the "gay person" that the "gay children" would "hope for marriage"?

Law enforcement people might be interested to know, BTW!!!!!!

In a 10:29 a.m. post today, a writer stated he hopes law enforcement officials are "monitoring blogs" and that they would make arrests of adults concerning actions involving 11-year-olds.

Couldn't agree more! The sooner the better, I say!

Think People!...
in many Americans, the "lightbulb won't turn on" - they brainlessly listen to the communists/nazis (aka liberals) (vs. consitutionalists, and take orders from their children (who've been brainwashed by the communists/nazis) vs. giving their children "orders". Communism/Nazism at their finest.

Some are writing tons of words and
not saying anything.
I'll make this simple, don't give 11 year olds the pill. Got it?
I don't care what the school's motive is--they are wrong and dumb as a bag of hammers.
It's just stupid at best---insidious stupidity.

To T.C.---I'm with you
du---Gay children????
Have you lost your mind?
Gay children in a conversation about 11 year olds?
Nothing but a bunch of Godless heathen.

du writes:
"Abstinence and celibacy IS a viable option for CHILDREN"

Option???!!

NO! du---it's the law!!!

OPTION?!!!

This is a conversation about 11 years olds.
Is it an option or not du?
Yes or no--take a stand--unbelievable.

These people are INSANE
and all those who voted for this should have their home computers check for child porn!

Independent Thinker & Jerseyvet
I stopped watchin BOSTON LEGAL 2 seasons ago. It was and is a funny show but I got sick of being preached to by a resident liberal every week. Also, did you notice the conservative (Shatner) is portrayed as borderline senile? BL is about as subtle as a sledge hammer.

Very funny
Fantastic satire, Crusading Cowgirl. I especially enjoyed your third post, which I copy here for the people who believed you were serious.

"Although the greatest benefit of AOE is its complete lack of accurate information provided to homosexual youth which increases the risk that they will, albeit deservedly, contract HIV or another nasty STD that should sideline them in the near future from enjoying the joy that life has to offer. Bravo to President Bush for his forward-thinking in support AOE programs. Without them, we might see teens choosing to enjoy the love and passion of sexual relationships without the burden of pregnancy or disease, not to mention the potential for fostering the development and acceptance of gay youth. If only we can convince Rudy to change his twisted stance on gay marriage we might have a strong contender for 2008."

Destructive behavior should be difficult
to engage in. Just cause some people will always make unwise choices doesn't mean we should make it easy to engage in that behavior. It shouldn't be easy to engage in adultery, drunkeness, drug addiction, etc.... Just cause some people don't bathe often doesn't mean we should relax grooming standards in the workplace; stop exercising cause you will eventually die; stop eating cause you're just going to get hungry again.

The Portland school
is guilty of contributing to the delinquency of a minor at best and at worst is not only not "protecting" the kids, but exposing them to all the dangers that accompany promiscuity - emotional and physical. Condoms do not protect from HIV, HPV, herpes, etc. Just one encounter can give them a life-long disease or end up killing them. That's not "protection"; it's reckless endangerment.

Motherof4
The desire not to be laughed at is VERY important.

BaseballDoc
Homosexuality prevents pregnancy 100% of the time.

And it is as popular as abstinence.

Uncle Alby
The average age for first marriage is TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS.

No one in their right mind would expect anyone to wait THAT long.

Ah yes.. the evil 1950s
... back when little boys were taught to wear rubbers on their FEET.

Can anyone here picture Opie or Beaver going to the school nurse for birth control (i.e. condoms), and then having a need for it?

Little boys (and girls) haven't evolved into some mutant strain. 50 years of liberal indoctrination has ruined this country, and stolen the childhood away from millions of little boys and girls.

There is nothing in this world so filthy as a liberal. The first liberals who started whining about fairness should have been flayed alive on all 3 broadcast television channels. Oh, wait; they didn't have television in Lincoln's day.



Uncle Alby
I was 28 when I lost my virginity. It was with a woman I thought I was in love with, and was interested in marrying. Had I known then what I know now, I would have waited until my wedding night.

I know some men, very masculine men in masculine professions, strict heterosexuals, who still firmly believe sex comes with marriage; some of them are in their 40s and 50s. Some are still unmarried, some are widowers. These men have what is known as "a sense of proportion." Unlike the brainwashed, endorphin-addicted masses, they know that sex is pretty unimportant in life, somewhere between soccer and environmentalism.


WHY
have sex with someone you're not married to? WHY have sex with someone with whom you do not have a lifetime commitment?

You want an orgasm? Fine.. masturbate. It gives you everything casual sex gives you without the possibility of pregnancy or disease. Intimacy can easily be had WITHOUT engaging in sexual activities; families do it all the time. You achieve intimacy whenever you snuggle a puppy. You don't need others present in order to satiate your drug addiction.

Don't listen to dbz77
Parents, tell your kids sex has a price tag.

http://www.pamstenzel.com/




dbz77 -- don't change the subject
quoth dbz77:
"The average age for first marriage is TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS. No one in their right mind would expect anyone to wait THAT long."

I thought we were talking about handing contraceptives to ELEVEN YEAR OLD CHILDREN?

That's not waiting AT ALL.

ok Greg
Ok Greg, you're right, it's the law concerning children and sex.
Absolutely, I agree. I misspoke.

Getting hysterical isn't necessary.

As for T.C....yes, gay CHILDREN.
If you ever or really knew anyone gay, read about gay people from reliable sources or had any close relationships with someone gay, THEY know they are gay when they are children.
They know it from the beginning, the only problem is being honest about it, and talking about it without getting punished and hurt or abandoned for it.
So most people don't know (or don't want to) until that gay person feels it might be safe to.
Often though, just suspicion and not confirmation is enough to be destructive to a gay person's life.

This isn't about a gay adult marrying a child. As far as I know ONLY heterosexual men have married child brides.
This is about knowing the truth about gay people. And straight people tend to make that IMPOSSIBLE.

Gay children don't have the option of being honest to those in their lives in charge of them without someone at the ready to intervene on that child's identity as gay. With usually damaging and bad result.
And this IS a part of sex ed and being honest and knowlegable about and TO young people.
And teaching about homosexuality isn't teaching about SEX.
It's teaching about an indigenous, immutable and universal characteristic in human beings.
Whenever the issue of homosexuality comes up, me and the gay folks try to talk about education, justice and equality.
The anti gay are the ones who want to get graphic and obssess about gay sex.
Besides, most children already might have a gay relative, so having hissies about gay people is laughably redundant and children can handle that.

But I agree that handing out prophylactics is WAY out of line to gradeschoolers. And finding out WHY is important to the issue. Why didn't anyone address what I said about the abuse of girls that might have prompted this action?

a specific issue doesn't mean 'all'
I have noticed that issues regarding sexuality and how our society deals with it, takes BROAD, far reaching and frankly non specific language.
I don't want to personalize this. However, a person taking a somewhat more liberal view on a single issue, doesn't mean that they are completely and totally liberal on ALL issues that correlate to it.

There is so little proportion, that it's very hard to take the TH writers seriously, let alone those who agree with them, or obssess and take the entire discussion WAY off point.
For example, try to talk about gay couples marrying and polygamy or pedophilia comes up.
Well, why? They have nothing whatsoever to to with the other.
Except that many here are inculcated to think that there isnt' enough government control over gay people as it is, so if any is lifted, then EVERY government control on marriage MUST be.
That's SO stupid!

When the discussion regarding HPV vaccine came up. Same thing happened. Instead of seeing the issue as one regarding protection against a devastating virus. The discussion went straight to seeing it as a gateway for sex among youth. Just because it has a sexual disease correlation.
Again, how stupid...and the hysteria still leaves young girls unprotected for when they DO finally become sexually active.
And once again, the typical TH FEARMONGERING and stretches of logic can't escape the usual suspects.
Fear is an easier emotion to detect, and cultivate...and some of you take the bait EVERY time.
What does that make you? Numb to logical and critical thought?
Proportion would be very helpful, too. Very few of the more common concerns I bring up get any attention. Hard to get that bone away from you pitbulls.
Even my experience in law enforcement and the data I have access too doesn't move you.
What's so sad is that what should be good news, isn't. And what gender bias there is that can be pointed out makes no impression either.

I love children
I love children, my first instinct is to protect and engage children too. It's one of the reasons I went into law enforcement.
I know what damages children and I know that turning them into VEAL doesn't help them either.
I've seen horrible neglect and abuse out there in the field, and I've heard it on the news too. I'm interested to know WHY these schools took this action, not just that they are doing it.
A few schools doing it, doesn't mean it's a common trend, but more likely something experimental.

Children CANNOT be lied to. The truth can be tempered and measured for their age, but lying, denial and lack of access to the truth and comprehensive information is dangerous, let alone unproductive. Because then, the only option a CURIOUS child will have, is getting it from ignorant and badly misinformed people.
Parents can and should have the option of taking the class first, and seeing if THEY missed current and reliable information and then they can pass it on to their child.
This is at least SHARING education and information.
But STOPPING it altogether isn't always a good option.
I'm appalled at this latest situation.
I hate it. Have we come to this?
I don't lie to children, and their parents wouldn't appreciate if I did.
I have been put in the position of mentor, advisor and other support.
My own background and the trust built has made parents feel their children are safe with me. And they are.
But I also know many children aren't safe with their own parents, sadly.
This is a reality.
I have a lot more questions regarding this new situation. There is something else there. I'd sure like to know what that is.

proportion
One more thing: when I mean proportion I mean that schools cannot engage in the fear tactics and myth regarding sex and the emotions that go with them
Hormonal fluctuations, tension, crushes, same sex orientation and puppy love are all very real and serve a purpose.
But teaching that homosexuality INEVITABLY means disease, early death, promiscuity and lack of ability in OTHER areas of life, is just plain irresponsible, untrue and damaging to the young gay psyche.
Making girls responsible for the negative attitudes or controlling actions that males employ is also damaging and irresponsible.
Yet, even those with the best of intentions, like clergy and other adults of influence DO damage youngsters in this way along gender lines and biases.
The typical ignorance that is laced with fear is evident any MANY TH posters.
The lack of education on some issues of sexuality IS appalling and begs that some of you could use your own education where it counts.
Having said that, Puritanical mores will ultimately have the effect of making children laugh at being out of touch on one hand, and lacking credibility because of hypocrisy on the other.
That's what you get for lying and denying kids the truth. Not fear passing for it.
Two teenaged girls, 15 and 17 murdered a young mother up here near where I live. Casual street violence isn't as common among young girls, but they are catching up.
Yep, our country has some serious educating to do, and scapegoating the wrong minority, or getting behavioral expectations along gender lines wrong, isn't the way to do it.
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