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Monday, March 31, 2008
Bobby Schindler :: Townhall.com Columnist
Terri Schiavo: My Sister's Regret
by Bobby Schindler
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Recently, and for the second time in less than a year, presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama stated that his greatest regret as a Senator was not objecting to a vote that was intended to help save my sister from being dehydrated to death.

Senator Obama went so far as to say that this type of “inaction” (failure to speak out against the Senate’s unanimous consent to allow Terri the same due process allowed the most vicious of criminals) can sometimes prove to be just as costly as taking action. One has to wonder what could possibly have been “more costly” than the loss of innocent human life.

At a Democratic rally in Florida in February 2006, Senator Hillary Clinton scolded the Republicans in an effort to single them out for intervening in Terri’s situation, even though the effort to save her passed the Senate with bi-partisan support.

In an August 2006 interview with Esquire Magazine, Senator John McCain said the following: “I understand the frustrations a lot of Republicans feel. We’re not representing their hopes and dreams and aspirations. We worry about Ms. Schiavo before we worry about balancing the budget.”

One of these candidates will be our next President, and the fact that they can make such statements with little to no fanfare from our secular media, or any noticeable outrage from the general public, is a chilling reminder of how far we have drifted as a nation.

It would be interesting to see if there would have been a similar reaction—or lack of one—if, at the time of Senator McCain’s service to his country, a ranking U.S. senator made this comment: “I understand the frustrations a lot of Americans feel. We’re not representing their hopes and dreams and aspirations. We worry about saving POWs like John McCain before we worry about balancing the budget.”

How is that statement any different than what John McCain said about Terri? Terri was an American citizen and was supposed to be protected. But she wasn’t. In fact, we treat animals better than we treated her. Her country failed her, and despite Senator Obama’s remark, that inaction can be “costly” for Terri paid the ultimate cost—her life. Now others like her face the same type of treatment unless our leaders do more to protect them.

There is a lethal bigotry against the disabled in our country and it’s getting worse, in particular against the cognitively disabled—human beings who are being killed every day in our nation. If left unchecked it will likely threaten the lives of everyone who is not able-bodied. This is especially problematic when you have potential leaders who have made it abundantly clear that they are going to do nothing to protect the value and dignity of people like my sister.

I often wonder if our presidential candidates would make such insensitive and callous comments if this were their child or if they had ever known someone like Terri.

Perhaps they could take time to visit my parents and see the agony and torment that remains with them every single day as a result of having to needlessly watch their disabled child slowly killed by dehydration and starvation.

Maybe as president they could explain why my parents were told by the armed police guarding Terri that if either of them tried to give her ice for her bleeding lips they would be arrested immediately.

Maybe my parents could remind all three candidates, who are parents themselves, that a mother and father value nothing in life more than their children and want only to love them unconditionally and protect them in every way possible—a right you can no longer take for granted.

March 31st will mark the third anniversary of my sister’s brutal death. Sadly, it is a day that reminds me of what our nation has become, bringing back horrible images of a hideously inhumane death and how the judge who sentenced Terri to die also, in essence, sentenced my parents to death with her.

Senator Obama said that his biggest regret was allowing Congress to try to help my sister. I wish I could ask Terri about her biggest regret, because as things turned out I’m certain that hers would have been that she was born in an America where life is no longer viewed as precious and worthy of protection.

As I think about the future of our nation I can’t help but remember the words of one of our founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson: “The care of human life and happiness and not their destruction is the first and only legitimate object of good government.”

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About The Author

Bobby Schindler is the host of “America’s Lifeline” heard Saturdays on WGUL in Tampa and online through their Web site. He is the brother of Terri Schiavo.

Terry's death was wrong
All she needed was a little help. Nothing extreme. Her parents and siblings loved her and she responded to them.

My own father died last year. He had a stroke, and we, the family, had to make the decision of whether or not to put him under palliative treatment. We decided to do that, because he was in such great pain, and he had lost mental capacity, and there was no chance of him regaining it. It was a very hard decision for our family to make, but we did what we thought were in Dad's best interest, because we loved him.

I've seen video of Terry, and she was not like my dad. She could recognize her parents. She was not in unbearable pain. She just needed a little help and her parents were willing to take care of her - they didn't see it as a burden. The situation is totally different and the people who made it should have been the ones who loved Terry, not a man who didn't seem to care.

I never understood
I never understood how a law enforcement officer, who is sworn to serve and protect,could justify doing neither in your sister's case. Would they have lost their jobs if they allowed her a chip of ice? I would have left any job that demanded that I watch and do nothing when something could be done.
I think of her every day.
I fight now when I see an injustice being done, no matter who the victim is, wishing I could have helped you in your fight to save your sister.
Please accept my deepest sympathy.

Eternal dingbat
Shame on you! She wasn't taken off life support, she was starved to death. That's not mercy that's murder

Kevorkian Airlines

After nine years of nursing my Sweetie, it was with mixed emotions that I refused to have them try to keep her eating and drinking for the last week of her life. After that, it would not have been life, it would have been worse than death.

I want to see the Kevorkian Airlines. Fly a mile high, when you are outside the 3-mile limit, push the button, fly a hundred miles over the ocean, and kick open the door. They could sell a million tickets.

Eternally Cranially Locked in the Dark
aka "Sophie"

We've all seen the videos of Terri reacting to her mother's presence. Have you, or do you not allow facts to speak for themselves? Looked to me as though she were trying to communicate as if underwater or through a glass block wall-there was a block to complex communication, yes, but there was communication, as well as recognition.

How "liquified" do you think her brain really was after going three weeks without hydration?

Michael Schiavo had everything to gain by his actions. A hefty life insurance benefit, and a new wife who I am *sure* trusts him with her life.

After refusing to get Terri the therapy she needed, then ordering her to be starved and dehydrated to death, he is the very picture of spousal abandonment. One can only wonder what his plans are in case Wife #2 should be mysteriously injured and handicapped as a result.

midfielder
"Shame on you! She wasn't taken off life support, she was starved to death."

No, shame on you and everyone like you. It was because of people like you that Florida law had banned more humane methods. It is when people like you start making medical decisions through your elected officials that tragedies like Terri Schiavo occur in the first place.

As for Mr Schindler, he has my deepest condolences for the loss of his sister. But despite what he chooses to believe, Terri had been dead for years before her heart stopped beating three years ago. It is our brain that makes us who we are, and hers was gone. That means she was gone and had been for a very long time. Pretending otherwise didn't do Terri or anyone else any good.

AliveInHim
"We've all seen the videos of Terri reacting to her mother's presence."

Are you able to recognize autonomic nerve impulses and how the body reacts to them? If not, then you have no business making a medical judgement.

"do you not allow facts to speak for themselves?"

Does the fact that the videos you refer to were 10 years old at the time matter to you?

"After refusing to get Terri the therapy she needed..."

Terri received every possible therapy and treatment available including many experimental treatments. All medical avenues had been exhausted.

"How 'liquified' do you think her brain really was after going three weeks without hydration?"

We don't have to guess. There were MRI scans of her brain entered into evidence long before the final decision which showed the same thing found in the autopsy.

There are reasons why doctors and nurses are responsible for our medical care, and not people like you. Emotion and histeria are not a sound basis for medical treatment.

What about her husband?
The circumstances of her accident always sounded suspicious. How well was it investigated?

Hillary delenda est.

Baron
It was investigated by the police and no evidence of foul play was found. The medical staff in the emergency room saw no evidence anyone having harmed her. The specialists in charge of her care testified in court that her symptoms could not have been induced by another person.

Does that answer your question?

BTW, it wasn't an accident. It was a brain hemorrage.

Legalized Murder
It is easy to tell leftists and conservatives apart in a subject concerning life.A party whose litmus test for liberalism in the murder of innocent children.

They must feel a tinge of guilt,so they start with their words trying to justify taking an innocent life.Had Terry been MY daughter,I probably would be in prison at this time.

Her so-called husband wanted her dead and she was not dying soon enough for him.Her family wanted to take care of her,themselves,but she must die,so he can collect insurance and be free to marry his new love.

If he just wanted his freedom to remarry,there was always divorce.But,she must die,so he can get what's coming to him....I just hope he does and here on earth for her family to see.Maybe he can get stranded in the desert,without food or water.He would get flashbacks,surely.


Great tragedy.
What a tragedy this was. My heart breaks for every person involved. We can learn from it that EVERYONE should have a living will.

When pictures lie...
The Schindlers and Schiavoes have my deepest sympathy and condolences. The loss they have endured is an unimaginable agony beyond description.

If you talk to trained madical professionals, especially nurses, the front line people who do the real work to care for patients like Mrs Schiavo, they will all explain that Teri was not 'there,' and she hadn't been there since she arrived. The video that played over and over was misleading, showing reflexes not cognition.

What happens in these waning days and hours as the body's systems shut down is that the patient is not hungry and not thirsty. They seem to reach for what's next.

Don't take my word for it, go and talk to medical professionals - practicing doctors and nurses - yourself.

One of the things that our healthy, safe and prosperous society is that we have become so very unfamiliar with death - a mixed blessing, for sure.

Without falling into the 'slippery slope' argument, in this case, the right thing happened.

This Worse than a Kevorkian in 3 ways
God could have brought her back no matter how bad off she was as long as she was still alive.

The key here is the reasonable measure of doubt should favor the person's life.

This last person said the main thing, her parents would have taken care of her. It wasn't anything extrordinary, just feeding her.

God might have did a miracle and she might have came back.


This was worse than a Kevorkian.

1) Kevorkian kills with consent only of victem
2) Kevorkian kills only those in excruciateing pain
3) Kevorkian does it quick, no slow starvation

They could have made it a test, if they gave her water but not food it would be a sign that God wanted her to live if she got better.

But they weren't even allowed to wet her lips!

Cosmox
If her body was shutting down...why not wait until it did? I could agree with removing everything except the feeding tube.That way death would take it's course.Once a feeding tube is inserted,it should remain until death.

The family situation was what bothered me when it happened. Why couldn't her mother take her until she passed away? If she had no one except her husband,it would be different.

This was a troubling case.Everyone has an opinion.This is mine.Just because a thing is legal,does not make it right.

She was beutiful
Cosmox
If I had the money for a home health aid Terry could have came to my house and stayed in my living room to make me happy to see her there. She would have made her parents happy that way even more.

If somebody wants to kill a dog they can't starve it.

That is why a pro football players have gotten in trouble recently for stuff like that. \

So you think Terry's life is not as important as a dog?

Common sense tells you that you shouldn't even kill a dog by lethal injection if somebody loves and wants to take care of the dog.

Your heartless medical professionalism is what lies here. The picture of how beutiful she was testifies to that one reality it self, her good appearance.

Morality vs Moral relativism
The battle lines of life are clear. There are those who believe they have the authority to determine who is worthy to live and who have an obligation to die. Leftists and liberals do not believe in the traditional morality of God, law, pounishment, evil, and the most basic God-given right of all - the right to life. (except in the case of trees, chickens and such.) Conservatives do, it is a simple as that.

It doesn't matter how brain-injured Terri was, she was a child of God whose family WANTED her and wanted to lovingly take care of her, and she had as much a right to life as anyone. Her life was precious to God and to her family and she was murdered in the fullest sense of the word. Her "husband"/killer did not have a justifiable reason to want her dead. He DID indeed benefit monetarily from her death and it was his entire motivation. Let's be clear about that.

The wicked take the truth to be hard. In this case, those screaming that her murder was justified are transparently showing their utter lack of morality, conscience and compassion.

Mr. Schindler, I am so sorry about what happened to your sister and entire family. No national event in my memory has been so outrageous, tragic and heartwrenching. Please know that there are untold millions of us who were on your side and who felt your righteous anger and sadness. I did.

I'm dismayed that we now have a GOP nominee who is as callous on the subject as the other side. We expect it from them, but when one of our own fails to understand the importance of the life issue, we are in big trouble.

Who will now stand for life?

If unconcious people are dead
midfielder

Then killing people as they sleep should be legal.

Did God do a miracle with her slow death
You are supposed to be dead after no liquids in just a few days.

As I recall she lived without food or water for weeks.

This was a sign from God not to kill her!

Would you kill Moses on Sinai?

God did a miracle and we didn't help Him?

Rule of Law
Any old law can have legal effect. Once passed and signed by the appropriate authorities, federal, state, and local authorities can enforce any law they choose that is able to pass whatever scrutiny it might be given in a court of law.
To have moral effect, the law must not be immoral on its face. I find it rather interesting that those on this string of posts who tout the rule of law in this case are probably the same idiots lined up outside state prisons on the eve of execution of whatever mass murderer/rapist/torturer is due to be executed for his crimes. In those criminal cases, the accused must be afforded free legal counsel, must have both the conviction and sentence ratified through a normally very strenuous appeals and review process, and (at least in most states) must then have the governor personally authorize the execution. The burden of proof is on the state and the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt. The court used for this execution was a probate court; the place you go for wills and property disputes related to deed and titles. The rules in this type of court is bring the best lawyer, or wish you had. great poster child for the Rule of Law argument; don't you think?

A lot of Shrill Rhetoric from people
who only know what they read. Eternal Sunshine sounds like anything but. I really didn't see a political message in Schindler's writing. He chastised all three candidates. As it was a personal matter for him and its a free country, I am appalled at Eternal Sunshine's harsh judgement judgment on the appropriateness of Schindler writing an opinion piece. I can see how people might come down on either side of this issue, but I don't understand why all civility has to be thrown aside in the discussion. I don't claim to know what Terri thought or felt. However, I do believe that if her heart and lungs continue to function without life support (somtething that cannot occur without some cooperation from the brain) It is not appropriate to deny feeding in order to stop the heart and lungs.

Dear Mr. Schindler,
Please read the good comments posted here. Ignore the bad ones. I want you to know how sorry I still am about what happened to your family. At the time, I felt such outrage, anger, sadness and shock that I couldn't get over it, it consumed me for many days. I hope you know how many of us had real heartache for what you were going through, and how utterly and completely evil we knew it was. There was no justification, and it was indeed one of the blackest of times in American history. It still affects me and makes me emotional all over again when I am reminded of it.

Please keep reminding us. Keep fighting the good fight and know that more people are on your side and suffered with you than you may realize. May God bless your sister, your family and may he send justice down upon the heads of those who made such a travesty possible.

PC,Chad & Bikerknight
Thank you for saying it better than I could.This is what drives some people mad and leads to retaliation.When government takes the last shred of recourse from you and you have nowhere else to go,some people take the law into their own hands.

It is not right to disobey the law but,tell it to a grieving mother who must stand by and watch the government sentence her own child to death.Then not to even be allowed to stay with her as she is dying.The indignity of it all is unAmerican.

I thank God for good conservative people who put life above everything else.In the womb and on the deathbed.


AliveInHim, midfielder, et al
Don't even try to argue with a smug elitist social arbiters like JJBiener. He ignores the fact that it is a felony, regardless of condition, to starve and dehydrate to death any type of animal and yet defends what was done to Schiavo. Instead, he would have had her dispatched with a poison.

These types advocate turning over your health care to gov't so that they in the position to determine your quality of your life and thus make the decisions as whether and when it's terminated. This is a socialist principle.

Remember, these are the 'compassionate' liberal fascists who have already wiped out the major portion of two generations of Americans through abortion advocacy. This is exactly what you will be getting if this nation turns to 'universal' which is in effect rationed medical care.

Would you really want these amoral secular ghouls making the life and death decisions for you?

The Abysmal Cesspool that is Sophie:

Following Shindler’s lead and countering your Inquiry, concerning “The rule of law,” Thomas Jefferson said, “Law is often the tyrant’s will, and always so, when it violates the right of an individual.”

Additionally, with respect to the ramifications of unjustly dealing with the weak, he stated “The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.”

Your words speak for themselves. If “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks?” And I do earnestly do believe those (Biblical) words to be true; your heart is one fathomless, vile cesspool.

Chad and others...
OK, this sounds harsh, but it has to be said:

For whom should a person be kept alive?

If a person in a condition such as Terry Schiavo is incapable of the core trait of humanity, happiness, I put it to you that keeping a such a person alive to "make me happy" is a selfish act.

One of the important lessons Jesus teaches us is to trust in God's mercy and goodness, and to trust Him enough to let go of the one you love so that you may be together again in His eternal grace.

Our medical and technical progress has changed that point of letting go. With it, numerous ethical dilemmas have been revealed. A survivor of an accident today is very different than a survivor of yesteryear. (The movie "The Fifth Element" did an excellent job illustrating this point, by the way)

Because we 'can' does not always mean we 'should.'


PS. To compare Mrs Schiavo to a dog is cheap. You can do better.

Sophie, You have
alot of nerve attacking Mr. Schlindler regarding HIS sister-
Have YOU ever lost a loved one in such a manner as this? I have,(my 26 year old nephew) and I am telling you to please refrain from being your usual disrespectful and ugly self on this one.


Cosmox nice trick try again
If we protect dogs how much more should we protect humans?

What is cheap here, my comment or utilitarian ethics?

I wasn't saying Terry was like a dog except in the sense she should be protected.

The logic is if this is how we protect dogs , how much more should we protect humans?

This isn't rocket science.

Sophie!
There are a few poster's right here that I would consider taking off life support in a New York Minute!

Too far for even darwin
Takeing out the feeding tube, by darwinian ethics might be OK, though I would object.

But when you think about it this goes beyond darwin in that if terry was able to swallow drops of liquid nutrients her familly could have kept her alive on a low calorie wieght loss diet for months or years.

Throw in how God says fasting is healing in Isaiah 58 then who knows she might have had some supernatural improvement.

Pulling the plug and state enforced starvation is not exacly the same thing.

There is a subtle difference here.

Sophie
You are muddying the waters by throwing in something that isn't really part of this case which is the same as all others with people on a feeding tube.

A feeding tube doesn't hardly cost anything. With all the publicity they could have raised money for 500 dialisis machines to keep her alive. But she didn't have any kind of exotic life support did she?

JJBiener, Sophie
Terri breathed ON HER OWN. She was fed WITH A TUBE. Plenty of post-op folks are fed likewise; her case was not a hardship. She menstruated and suffered cramps. She managed her own saliva;she did not drool. She DID respond to her parents.

Are you going to call her parents liars because she DID respond to them? Are they blind? People who have no cognizance just sit there. Their eyes do not follow people around a room. Her eyes did, as her parents attest.

Did you know there's a person in England who has little more than a brain stem, but who is fully functioning? Who can know how much can be overcome in circumstances that to us would seem overwhelming?

Nobody I know, including myself, would *choose* to live this way. I'm sure Terri didn't get up one morning and decide to injure herself in such a way that she would be rendered helpless. But if it should happen that this is where I am led, my life is not in vain even so; I would not *choose* to die. And yes, my husband agrees. He takes his wedding vows seriously, you see.

The Abysmal Cesspool that is Sophie:

Your lame attempts at tying this to Bush are an obvious non sequitur. Michael made the decision, at that, based on an alleged conversation, he ALONE had with Teri. Her blood relatives wanted her to live and were willing to bear the burden – something you’ve equated to as having “Acted despicably to gain attention for themselves.” And the ruling could have come from a hundred and “Twenty courts” my finding still would have been for her parent’s wishes to be honored.

All you've done is to bolster my position, as previously written, "Additionally, with respect to the ramifications of unjustly dealing with the weak, he stated 'The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.'”

Morality is not decided by concensus.



What if Terry was pregnant?
I would have acted badly and even lied too if I really believed my sister or child was responding to my voice or presence.

Sophie
You are intitled to your own opinion ,but not your own facts.You are repeating stories you have heard.Do you know if everything you have heard is true? Have you personally spoken with HER family?

Since her brother is the author of this column,it would be prudent that you show him some respect.I am sure he reads some of these posts.We should not sound so cold and uncaring.

grubby
"Don't even try to argue with a smug elitist social arbiters like JJBiener."

I am a lifelong Republican.

"He ignores the fact that it is a felony, regardless of condition, to starve and dehydrate to death any type of animal and yet defends what was done to Schiavo."

Schiavo was already brain dead. She had no ability to feel anything or even be aware of anything.

"These types advocate turning over your health care to gov't"

Wrong. I oppose all attempts to turn over health care to the government. I want the government as far from health care as possible.

"Remember, these are the 'compassionate' liberal fascists who have already wiped out the major portion of two generations of Americans through abortion advocacy."

Wrong again. I am a staunch opponent of abortion.

"Would you really want these amoral secular ghouls making the life and death decisions for you?"

No one made this decision for Terri other than her next of kin, namely her husband. It was the Schindlers who turned the whole thing into a circus. They were the ones who consistently tried to get the government to insert itself into a family decision. It was people like you who appealed to the Congress to intervene.

You rail against government intrusion in our lives until you don't like the decision someone makes. Then there you are running to the government to override the decision and to impose your own views. The only people who should have been involved were her husband and her medical team. Not the Schindlers, not the courts, and certainly not the Congress or the President. Most of all, not you.

If someone says....
"I don't want to be kept alive by life support."

They might be makeing that statement ill informed.

It couldn't have been a very serious discussion the Schaivos had if it didn't result in them makeing a will for either of them.

When it came down to it she might have chose not to sign on the dotted line for being pulled of life support if they had followed through as a couple on their wishes about it.

Conclusion: Feeding tubes should not be included as or considered as life suport and should NEVER be pulled out in a rich country like this.

We should make a Terry Shaivo bill that makes it a crime to pull out any ones feeding tube with the intention of murder.

Not even a miracle could make her well
My heart goes out to Terri-not her family. She lost her whole future.

Due to her collapse she had no chance to see her dream of having a family.

Due to her parents delusional parents she was forced to be a vegetable for 15 years.

Her cortex was gone, it happened years before her tube was pulled for the 3rd and finally time. That was shown on her CT scan. She didn't see, think, speak or feel a dang thing due to the cortex being all but gone. Her brain was half it's weight her brain stem actually was keeping her alive and it was fed through a surgically implanted tube.

So feel bad that Terri wanted things that she missed forever due to an illness that took her life too soon.




The Power of Life and Death
JJ Beiner

The government that looses control over life and death looses the abiblity to govern. This isn't like government takeing over health care or public schools, this is the basic foundation of civilization, THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

This is why cops have guns and use them. Why lieutenants in Iraq take oaths before the flag.

The power of life and death is not and never will be privatized.

AliveInHim
"Terri breathed ON HER OWN. She was fed WITH A TUBE. Plenty of post-op folks are fed likewise; her case was not a hardship. She menstruated and suffered cramps. She managed her own saliva;she did not drool."

All these functions are performed by the brain stem.

"She DID respond to her parents."

The part of her brain which might have been able to respond was gone.

"Are you going to call her parents liars because she DID respond to them?"

Her parents saw what they wanted to see.

"People who have no cognizance just sit there."

This is an unfortunate misconception. Autonomic nerve impulses can be mistaken for cognitive function by those without medical training.

"Their eyes do not follow people around a room. Her eyes did, as her parents attest."

Terri had no visual cortex. She couldn't see. As I said, her parents saw what they wanted to see.

"Who can know how much can be overcome in circumstances that to us would seem overwhelming?"

While this is an interesting question, it is really irrelevant. It isn't up to us to impose our beliefs on the Schiavos.

"if it should happen that this is where I am led, my life is not in vain even so; I would not *choose* to die."

This is your decision and it is between you and your husband. I would oppose anyone who tried to impose their will on the two of you, just as I opposed anyone trying to impose their will on the Schiavos.

Chad:
I find it interesting that you didn't respond to any of my post but for the post-script...

One thing that we do agree on is this: make your own wishes with regard to this matter known by writing it down in a living will.

My parents, my spouse, and I all have ours. Do you?

Chad
"The government that looses control over life and death looses the abiblity to govern."

If you think the government has control over life and death, you have big problems.

"This isn't like government takeing over health care or public schools, this is the basic foundation of civilization, THOU SHALT NOT KILL."

You keep missing the point. Terri was already dead. She had no brain function. She had no cerebral cortex. All they did was allow the body to stop functioning.

The Difference
The difference between those of us who believe that Terri Schiavo should not have been euthanized, especially by the agonizing methods that were used and those who believe her death was a 'mercy-killing,' is based on the type of value we place on human life.

If we believe that human life is only valuable in a utilitarian or instrumental way we will probably not be bothered by the killing of Mrs. Schiavo. Let me be clear. I do not mean to say, all who supported her death viewed her as no longer valuable because she was no longer useful, but also because she longer could “do things” including enjoy life or love others.

If we, however, believe that human life has "intrinsic" value, that is that our value is inherent in our existence and we don't have to achieve anything, including happiness, to be valuable then we find Mrs. Schiavo's death deeply troubling.

Besides the inherent wrongness of taking an innocent human life, those who hold to the former view may do well to consider the implications. How many of us would be tempted to believe we “wouldn’t want to live,” as a quadriplegic like Christopher Reeve, or with Down Syndrome, or as a cripple like FDR, or even with a cleft palate. Infants in Holland are already examined and killed if their lives are not deemed “quality” enough for the state.

I realize that those entrenched in their support for the killing of Mrs. Schiavo will be unaffected by my argument, but I thought it was worth making anyway.

May I say, as kindly as I know how, that to attack Mr. Schlindler personally is tasteless beyond belief

The answer was/is common sense
Terri Schiavo's husband was unwilling to care for her. Terri Schiavo's parents and family were willing to care for her.

The husband should have simply allowed Terri's parents to make the sacrifices and endure the hardships associated with caring for their dauhter/sister. Instead, this "husband" insisted that his wife be dehydrated and starved. He lawyered her to death.

What a creep...

A damning debate
The fact that this debate was as contentious as it was reflects just how deeply divided our nation is.

It's curious that the same course of action that was inflicted on Terri would never be allowed on a convicted murdered or a dog, but because she couldn't speak for herself and because her husband was more concerned for himself than her, she wasted away in front of us.

No one had absolute knowledge of her medical condition, so people who try to justify what happened or what might have happened, are merely rationalizing. But, what we do know is that there would have been no harm to keep her alive, and that's a patent moral failure.

Phil Mella
ClearCommentary.com

Terri Schiavo
There is a huge difference between life and clinical existence. Having said that, however, the husband could have simple turned things over to his wife's family and walked away. Who could blame him for wanting to get on with his life. Instead, he resorted to grandstanding and sanctimonious drivel. He showed no respect for the feelings of others and, in my opinion, showed no respect for himself.

Notes on the Schiavo Case
Here are some notes on the Schiavo case:

1. Terri was not PVS. The Florida statute for PVS is a rigorous and absolute standard which Terri did not fit into. Video clips and numerous eyewitness accounts clearly showed that Terri was not PVS.

2. Terri could not recover according to the ME. This is not neccessarily true. Adult stem cell therapy is making possible for Anoxic brain injured patients (lack of oxygen to the brain) to recover.

3. Michael caused Terri's collape. Although the medical evidence suggests that Michael did not cause Terri's collapse, I believe Michael has never told the whole story of what happen that night. I believe Michael witnessed Terri collapsing and was there when it happen. Whether, Michael did some criminal act, it was an accident, or it was some type negligence is unknown. But it should be known that Michael is on the record on giving 4 conflicting factual accounts of Terri's collaspe.

4. There was Clear and Convincing Evidence that Terri wanted to die. This is one the biggest myths of all. Lawyers who have studied the case have clearly shown that there was NO Clear and Covincing Evidence that Terri wanted to die.

6. Terri got "Due Process". Terri got "Process" but she did not get "Due Process". Congress's involvement in the case sought to correct this.

7. It was private family matter. This is a media lie. The Schiavo case was hardly a private family matter. Nothing could farther from the true. It was shown that Michael Schiavo had absolute conflicts of interest to see Terri dead.

Position
In these cases, I think the situation is tragic. I can't imagine a family seeing their loved one in that condition and any decision to remove life support is a very difficult decision and a very private matter.

What happend to Terri happens everyday in this country. Thousands of people are removed from feeding tubes and they die. It is a simple fact of life and it is very tragic.

Most of the time the family is together on such matters and person dies and we never know about it.

Again, I believe that to be a tragic situation and very private family matter.

It is unfortunate that our society has drifted from the sanctity of life to quality of life.

However, when a family member dissents and wants to care the person despite the tragic circumstances that have fallen upon them, the fight usually ends up in court.

In this case it is no longer a private family matter. Other people; the government has been become involved.

In this case where you loved one explaining to the court that they will care for the person despite their tragic condition and want to give potential medical help to improve their quality life....

when you have a court say NO you cannot because that person has allegedly (unproven) made statements in past about no wanting to live in such a condition and there is nothing in writing...

when you have this happen and court orders that person to die....

That I believe to be a total shame, a travesty of justice and a blight on our society.

When the person has nothing in writing and loved one wants to care for that person...

For a court to say NO because of what MAY HAVE been said years ago is a terrible injustice.

The role of our courts is to protect life not destroy it.


Weighing in
I am a limited government advocate. I think people have a right to euthanize themselves because they are the owner of their lives and the government is not. I also think that Terri Schiavo's mind was non-existent. I myself would not want to go on in such a state. From this, you might conclude I was in favor of pulling the plug. You would be wrong.

We respect a person's will as an application of individual rights. Respecting individual rights means respecting ALL individuals' rights, including Terri Schiavo's. Terri grew up as a staunchly pro-life Catholic. She was young when she collapsed. Why would you conclude that despite this, she herself willed that she should be taken off life support in such circumstances? There is no evidence of that. There is only the word of her husband - a husband who had abandoned her and was trying to remarry. Why are we to believe that they had had such a frank conversation? Is there anyone else who can attest to the existence and content of these conversations? And even if the subject came up, what evidence is there that it was more than one-sided, i.e., the husband expressing his opinion and Terri simply demurring or nodding her head to keep the peace? Where is the clear-cut evidence that she changed her mind? I am not aware of any evidence that Terri underwent any sort of philosophical transformation at her young age.

I want the government to respect MY will, which means that they must respect everyone else's will as well. I think the people who were eager to pull the plug were trying to steamroll over the will of the one person who counted in this case - the actual individual - and impose their own values onto someone else to make themselves comfortable psychologically.

I am sorry for everyone who has ever been in such a situation, but why should the alleviation of your misfortunate come at the expense of my rights? Make a will for yourself, and leave me alone.

Sophie
You sound as if you were privy to the inside story.I only know what I saw and read.I think the Schindlers could get no help from the law,so they turned to public opinion.

The press loves a story and got a lot of mileage from this one.If the husband had let her mother have her to care for until she died,it would have been over.There would have been no story.

We all have our opinions,but I always vote for life,when possible.As long as her heart was beating,she was alive.That would have stopped when it was time.

Schiavo
You are correct on Terri's wishes. No credible evidence ever came before the court that Terri wanted to die. The only people who Michael brought to back him up was his BROTHER and SISTER IN LAW. The problem most people do know or understand was the trial about her wishes (2000 trial) was poorly conducted. This was due in large part of the Schindler's lawyer. The Schindler's lawyer was total trash during the 2000 trial. Even if what Michael and his siblings say is true, the evidence presented was NOT Clear and Convincing and was at odds with multiple court decisions across the country. Michael clearly had absolute conflicts of interest. Not only did he want to remarry, but Michael has severe financial conflict as well. Terri's death would have meant a $700,000 payday for Michael.

It should be noted that Michael is on the record of stating that he never thought case would last another 5 years and expected to pull the tube a week after the ruling.

Michael also testified under oath that he refused to give Terri's care back the Schindlers because of the "Hell" they had put him throught.

Michael cited that this was his ONLY REASON.

It took Michael's lawyer to remind him of Terri's so called wishes.

Shameless...
Bobby, how can you look in the mirror knowing that you are whoring your dead sisters legacy for personal and political gain.

Your discusting behavior trumps any sympathy I may have felt for your loss.

The autopsy revealed that your poor sister had lost the ability to even think. Her brain was liqufied. Keeeping her alive, propped up with a feeding tube while she moaned at video cameras was far crueler than letting her slip away with dignity.

Your ex brother in-law, whom you and your family (along with Sean Hannity) baselessly and falsy accused of murder has been completely vindicated.

You, on the other hand, are a creep.

Let your sister go, for the love of God.

Terri Wishes
If people really want to read about the veracity of Terri's wishes, I suggest the following source.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=886373

It's hell of document to read. It looks this Law Professor actually did the homework that Judge Greer and the Appeals Court failed to do.

Terri Wishes
If people really want to read up on the veracity of Terri's wishes, I suggest the following source:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=886373

It's a hell of document to read. It looks like this Law Professor actually did the legal homework that Judge Greer and the Appeals court failed to do.

JJ,Sophie & robert-o
JJ & Sophie You keep commenting that the medical community had pronounced her beyond rehabilitation Right? Is this the same medical community that a few years ago cut off the wrong leg on a man and then still had to cut off the right leg due to cancer? The point is, they're not infailable.

Robert: real good way to show your real intelligence. Way to go man!!!!

Robert
Just in case you think I was complimenting you I wasn't. I was refering to your misbegotten puke you spewed at 6:52PM

One
thing for sure, the only ones on this thread who are brain dead are the ugly, insensitive morons who believe they have the oracle from on high, that Terri was non functioning. It doesn't matter what your oracle spews, she breathed on her own, and we saw the video of her responding to her mother. It doesn't matter because no living creature should be tortured as Terri was, especially by the government in the person of the callous judge. Micheal was involved with the
Right to die cabal as was his lawyer..end of story. Terri was a test case for the Right to Die ghouls. If there were no $$$ involved Micheal may have gotten a pass but his cruelty to her parents is beyond the pale. His day will come as it will for those who refused to help this family..the judge, the lawyers, the politicians, etc. Her mother should have had the right to care for her daughter, and it wasn't anyones business as to Terri's quality of life. Who is Obama to pontificate on life or death when he's on record allowing the murder of babies that survive abortion? Hillary for supporting abortion. And McCain, supposedly pro life, he of all people should have the compassion for this family after the ordeal he went through in the Hanoi Hilton.
Booby as others have said, millions supported
you and prayed for Terri and your family. self.

Robert and Sophie
Just STFU. You two make me sick.

Financial Conflict
Michael was indeed Financially conflicted. At the advent of the 2000 trial, Terri's death would have meant a $700,000 payday for Michael. He was the sole heir.

Michael has been clear on the record that he never expected the case to last another 5 years and thought he would removing the tube a week after Judge Greer's ruling.

In 2001, Michael nearly got his inheritance money. But, the Schindler got incredibly lucky in getting the tube reinserted.

By 2002, most of the money was gone due to the Schindlers legal actions and Michael's counter action.

By 2005, I believe michael was willing to reject any and all money bribes. At this point the Right to Die movement was pulling the strings and Michael would not only gotten bashed by the Schindler's supporters but by his own supporters as well as if he allowed Terri to live this would destroyed years of work by the Right To Die movement. Michael aslo wanted the satisfaction of punishing the Schindlers for stopping his attempts to have Terri made dead.

Michael did offer to donate the money to charity just before the 2000 trial but it was settlement offer made to the Schindlers and not the courts that Terri be starved and dehydrated to death before he would donate any of the money. This offer was made knowing full well the Schindlers would reject it. That's why it was made. It was legal tactic.

There was never any indication that Michael was ever going to donate the money to charity.

Life or quality of life…

‘There is a lethal bigotry against the disabled in our country and it’s getting worse…’ –Bobby Schindler


It is hard to imagine what level of pain you and family have been made to suffer, being forced to stand by while a family member is deprived of food and water. It’s not that Terri was unloved and unwanted. She was damaged.

The lawless state has demonstrated that it can dispose of the unwanted and the damaged. Your conclusion is right. The disabled and unproductive are now in jeopardy. If their ‘quality of life’ doesn’t measure up to some arbitrary standard, then they will be considered expendable.

If national health care becomes a reality, it’s just a matter of time. The quality of life will become more important than life itself. The weak will be sacrificed for the convenience of others.

No pills, no machines, ever

I read this on a different site, today.

“… … the self determination of death is a violation, an attempt to interfere with the Creation which can be determined only by God,”

Now I dare anyone who is stupid enough to believe that, to take a pill of any kind, to have an operation, or consult a doctor, or be hooked to breathing machine, or be given any kind of so-called medical help by anyone.

If God is to determine when you die, he must also determine how you live, and how long you live, and don't leave it up to some stupid pill or machine.

I would hate to have those of you who would force me to try to act alive when I am really dead, do not live nearby.

I told my Doctor that if he hooked me to one of those machines, he better hope it doesn’t work, for if it does, I'm coming after him.

I would love to have breakfast with my Sweetie in the morning, I just ask that it is painless and positive.



one question/one statement
Why do we force our loved one's to needlessly suffer while we gently say good nite and good bye to our pets?

Terri Schiavo was dead and her "family" except for her husband made a media circus out of her death. Bobby should be apoligising nothing else

Heartless
It is unbelievable that some people seem to have no feeling for another human being.They are heartless,soul-less and have no redeeming qualities ,that is evident.But to state the things I have read on this post to her own brother,her flesh and blood,who loved her,is unforgivable.

I would like to apologize to the writer if he has read some of these posts who are so unfeeling.Some of us have been hurt ourselves and can sympathize with you for what you and your family have been through.May you find comfort in knowing many who lived through this with ,you were touched by your ordeal.

Leave it to Sophie.
She knows more about Terri's situation than Terri's own family. What a self absorbed, egotistical tool you are!

Blight
The death of Terri Schiavo is BLIGHT on our society. That is why she must never be forgotten.

The role of courts is to protect life not destroy it.

Had a decision to starve and dehydrate Terri been made in a private setting, it would have be tragic.

But since the decision to starve and dehydrate Terri was made in public setting (the government was involved; the courts were involved), her situation was truly a blight on our society.

It's Time To Stick Up For The Truth...
I feel sorry for Terri's brother that he feels that his sister was wrongfully taken away from her. That said, however, it wasn't because of the government for doing so. Senator Obama has the courage to stand up for the truth, and he needed that courage to tell everyone that he made a mistake. He made a mistake to follow through with a bunch of sub-human scumbag losers like Tom DeLay and Bill Frist in committing one of the most despicable displays of cavalier political grandstanding I had ever seen. And Senator Frist calls himself a doctor by using a stopwatch to tick away the time so he could use the bully pulpit. I think I vomited a little in my throat.
These pieces of filth make me sick to my stomach, that these excuses for human beings can use the personal crisis of one family for their ill-gotten schemes. It troubles me to think that Terri's relatives have been warped into thinking that what these politicians did was the right thing to do. They have been manipulated by fundamentalist Christians who are trying to take over our country and purge the rest of us through any means necessary.
Nobody even thought of asking Terri Schiavo's closest confidant, her husband, whether she would have wanted it that way. They just painted him as a villain who wanted to kill her for her money. That is a lie. He loved her too much to let her live the rest of her life in a vegetative state.
How do I know this? I don't really know, but I just have faith that he did the right thing because he loved her. I know my mother, who died a few years ago, would have perfered being assisted in suicide because she said she couldn't handle her pain. That is why I feel so deeply this way.

Shefali
Do you know what an autopsy is? Did you read the report of Schiavo's autopsy? What did it say about her brain? What does this tell you? Do you have a brain?

Tragedy
What a terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to all. My living will says NO artificial support after 72 hours. I'd never want my family to go through anything like this.

And Stop Calling Dr. Kevorkian Dr. Death
And stop calling Dr. Kevorkian "Dr. Death." It is an insult to him and the people he helped ease their pain for. I am sick of the lies that these fundamentalist Christians use to get what they want. They will stop at nothing to invade our privacy, intervene with private matters, and bring the government into our face and say to us "You belong to us." They could care less about God. Their only god is the Almighty Dollar. All they care about is profiting off of the suffering of other human beings. If they really cared, maybe they would have left Dr. Kevorkian alone. If they really cared, maybe they would have left Terri Schivo, her husband and her family alone. But they won't. They are bent on taking over our country and imposing their religious views on all of us. We cannot let that happen. It's time to stand up for the truth and say, "No More! We will not bow down to your schemes and machinations. We are free. Freedom belongs to us all. And we will not let you take that away!"

Chad
"Common sense tells you you shouldn't even kill a dog if someone loves it and wants to take care of it": No, common sense doesn't say that at all. My son and daughter-in-law, last year, came to the decision that it was time to let their beloved Springer Spaniel go. She was 14 years old, in such pain and so weak that she could no longer stand up, could no longer eat, could no longer control her elimination, and in spite of the best vet caring for her for months, was just a very old dog who was worn out with living. The vet came to their house. They all sat on the kitchen floor. Her weeping owners held the dog in their arms as the vet gave her the shot.

They loved her. They had taken care of her, adjusting to her illness and doing whatever was required. They paid all the costs of her care. They stayed up all night with her. They would willingly have cared for her forever if she could have had any joy or comfort in her life. Would you want a dog to suffer and suffer because you couldn't face the reality that it was her time?

I faced something else. I faced the fact that when their mother, namely me, becomes in the same condition that poor old dog was, my children will not be able to choose a humane and dignified exit for me because people like you make sure that is illegal.

Pet Goat
I'm with you. The week Schiavo died we had our attorney here re-making our living wills and health care powers of attorney in stronger terms. When my physicians and my children decide it's time to let me go, I don't want some Fundamentalist Christian nurse's aide calling in the troops to impose their own will on us.

I told my doctor, "When the window is a little bit open and you hear God outside softly whistling, don't slam the window in his face".

Love
I doubt that Michael loved Terri. In both of his parent's obits, Michael mentioned his finance Jodi of his own wife Terri.

McCain and Obama were correct
The Terry Schiavo scenario was a travesty and illustrated the depths to which the extreme right wing of the Republican Party would go to pander to there evangelical base. This is a story best forgotten as it represents the worst about our politicians and their lack of focus.

johnx
Okay, you conservatives don't want state-mandated or any other form of mandated universal health care. And John McCain's so-called health care plan is already online; it would make sure that employer-funded health care would all be gone within about five years. And we already know how you feel about Medicare and Medicaid. So let's see now. No Blue Cross, no HMOs, no state programs, just everybody pays everything out of pocket like good self-reliant conservatives.

Except that you want people in Schiavo's condition to live forever or until Jesus comes back, whichever shall come first. Do you have any clue how expensive that kind of care is? And how long a body can keep breathing if it's given enough artificial support?

You don't want to pay taxes. You are pleased to have this country involved in perpetual war, which costs the earth. Please tell us how you envision paying for all of society's grandmas and grandpas and younger badly damaged people like Schiavo living on and on and on and on and on, world without end, Amen, and also world without money.

The7Sticks
You sound like a good replacement for the Unreverend Wright.Have you put in your application? All that ranting and raving! Obama's un-church has a replacement,but I just bet you could take his job.Why don't you try?Spare us from your wild rantings!


Dear Mr. Schindler,
My heart is broken for you and your parents. I'm sorry for the callousness of our government officials. Who would think it could happen in our country? When I was thirsty you gave me to drink.

The value of life

THou shalt not murder.
Our nation was being tested and we failed.
Part of life is sitting and caring for those who are dying.
I do not believe in prolonging death but withholding food and water is not the same thing.
Human beings have value because God said they have value. There is no other reason.
It is not for you to decide at what point in a person's life they no longer have value.
Only God has the authority and wisdom. Only God chooses the right moment to take us from this world. Man should not step out of his place and try to assume God's authority.

A Few Questions:

It’s absolutely mind-boggling, reading the various posts by individuals, who are still defending Michael Schiavo’s “right” to have his wife starved to death.

Some questions I have:

1) Why after convincing a jury of Teri’s anticipated long life and need for rehabilitative therapy did Michael Schiavo prevent nurses from treating a simple urinary tract infection?

2) Her rehabilitation stopped in 1991 (that’s when the insurance payments for same ran out) after the court award (specifically for her rehabilitation) in 1992 rehabilitative therapy was never resumed. Why not?

3) Why did Michael Schiavo use an estimated $650,000.00 of the $750,000.00 (awarded for her rehabilitation) to pay for lawyers, that would hasten her demise, instead of using the monies for their requested, as well as, their court intended purpose?

Mr. Schindler
I am so sorry for what happened to your sister. It was truly a tragedy. My heart goes out to you.

I also hope you're not reading these responses,but if you are, I cannot fathom how most of them must make you feel. I'm sorry there are so many people who are so cruel and ugly and feel the need to inflict hurt your direction on a day like today. Please know that some of us hear you and understand why you wrote your article. You and your parents will be back in my prayers for some kind of comfort and peace. What happened was so wrong.

God bless you.

Michael Schiavo did the right thing
Michael Schiavo did the right thing-regardless of his motives which some have questioned, but which only he really knows.

I have read his book, and recommend it to others who believe an injustice was done to Terri Schiavo.

People who say they "saw" Terri on tv and could "tell" she was aware of her surroundings are tragically uniformed and clearly have no understanding whatsoever of how the human brain and nervous system work.


I feel terrible for Terri's parents, and her brother. But, the autopsy showed a brain so atrophied that awareness or even low level sentience would have been impossible.

Like everyone in America, I saw the balloon video where she was ostensibly following its movement with her eyes.

But unlike the idiot, William Frist (a cardiologist) who diagnoised Terri based on a VCR tape, I would never make such a judgment based on a vcr tape-its unbelieveable-and I certianly would not question the objective measurements of the ct scan, and the diagnosis of an imminently qualified Neuosurgeon, who knows lkight years more about brain injuries than fools like college dropout Sean Hannity, or a cardiologist turned demagog and politician.

William Frist What a quack "charlkatan"!!!

Its a shame the more hysterical elements of a good organization, (right to life) exploited this tragedy and the undying love of Terri';s family for publicity and fundraising and legislative lobbying.

I have fixed my will and medical power of attorney to hopellfully avoid falling into the clutches of these do gooders who while sincere and well meaning, know absolutley nothing.

and I say this as a Bible believing evangelical Christian who workled in a beurosurgical intensive care unit for 18 years


'



Terri Schiavo
If you're interested in the documents, trial summaries, the Florida legislative attempt to intervene, etc., you can find it here.

http://www.abstractappeal.com/

The supporters of Terri's family, while well-intentioned, just don't seem to get that what Mr. Schindler says about Congressional intervention (or its attempt) is more than wrong, it's unconstitutional. Mr Santorum knew it was and so, at the behest of Mr. Levin, he had to change the law as first written to try and get around that problem. Federalist No. 83 deals with the issue by asserting the limits of the Federal judiciary.
"...in those controversies between individuals in which the great body of the people are likely to be interested, that institution will remain precisely in the same situation in which it is placed by the State constitutions, and will be in no degree altered or influenced by the adoption of the plan under consideration. The foundation of this assertion is, that the national judiciary will have no cognizance of them, and of course they will remain determinable as heretofore by the State courts only, and in the manner which the State constitutions and laws prescribe."

This discussion was about a problem under the Articles of Confederation where a state court judgment could be overturned by an act of the national legislature. The Constitution prohibits such a move.

After numerous trials, hearings etc. the state law was upheld. If you want to complain, call the Florida legislature which determined the venue for this kind of dispute.

Schiavo
Michael's book is filled with lies and mistruths. Most of the media and people were completely misguided with what Bill Frist did. Although, Bill Frist did view the Terri Schiavo videos, his position on suggesting that Terri was not PVS was based on MUCH MORE than just the video clips. Most people don't know that. To suggest otherwise, is total media distortion of the facts.

Asnwers
Some questions I have:

1) Why after convincing a jury of Teri’s anticipated long life and need for rehabilitative therapy did Michael Schiavo prevent nurses from treating a simple urinary tract infection?

Answer - Although a doctor has suggested that Michael take this action, 3 motives drove him make the decision that he did
- Michael was sole heir. If Terri died, Michael was going to inherit $700,000
- Michael had moved with his life and had new girlfriend.
- Michael had fight with Schindlers, so any suggestion to pass care back to them was repulsive.

It should be noted that Michael made this decision in total secrecy of the Schindlers. Michael testified under oath that planned to tell the Schindlers what he done "sooner or later".

2) Her rehabilitation stopped in 1991 (that’s when the insurance payments for same ran out) after the court award (specifically for her rehabilitation) in 1992 rehabilitative therapy was never resumed. Why not?

Yes, the monies recieved from the Mal Trial, were "earmarked" for Terri's care and rehab based on Michael's testimony and his expert witnesses testimony. Michael had motive to see dead after the mal trial.

3) Why did Michael Schiavo use an estimated $650,000.00 of the $750,000.00 (awarded for her rehabilitation) to pay for lawyers, that would hasten her demise, instead of using the monies for their requested, as well as, their court intended purpose?

Although the monies were "earmarked" for Terri's rehab and care, Michael lawyers were able to use the money for other purposes to "Benefit Terri Schiavo".

Another idea to consider
I don't think brain scans tell the whole story. Doctors and scientists don't know everything. New discoveries are made every day. How often do we read where scientists discover that old assumptions were incorrect?

People who were supposedly brain dead or human vegetables have revived from their comas and lived normal lives. How could such a thing happen if brain function determines whether one is dead or alive?

I think one day we will discover that lack of brain waves simply means that the brain is in a deep state of rest. I believe that a coma is the body's way of trying to recover from trauma. Sometimes, a long deep rest where the body does nothing but keep its organs alive is enough to heal someone if they are given time and support. Certainly it doesn't always work, but in some cases it does. This is why we should protect the lives of those in comas. Their bodies are trying to heal themselves, and they should be given that chance.

Sincere Condolences
With a legal system that binds our hands and effectively forces us to be restrained while we watch a loved one needlessly die or more correctly be murdered is beyond cruel. The fact they tried to portray it as merciful is a travesty. Worse yet is the confession of many who said they would have acted differently were the victim their son or daughter. If this were purely a legal or financial decision then I am sure it need not have been made as there are organizations and people who would and could have helped. How soon will it be before all the baby boomers who end up in nursing homes overwhelm the goverment resources and are euthanized for the common good.
Please take some respite in knowing that she no longer suffers and accept my sincere condolences.

Curtal Friar
I agree with you, but this is really an issue for TH editors.

ModMark could simply change his name. At least if TH editors censored him, he would have to change his name AND his computer to get back on here.

How about it Town Hall? I am all for free speech, but there should be SOME standards.

Cutter Bench
Good points. Here are a few more questions:

Why, when Terry's nurses stated that she swallowed several gallons of her own saliva everyday and she could be taught to take liquid nutrtion by mouth, was she not given that chance?

Why, when a college level Law-101 class teaches that a person with a conflict of interest is NEVER suppose to make legal (much less life and death) decisions for another person, was Michael allowed to skirt this basic principal of law?

LILLY

.....If the State can legally murder a citizen because they don't have a brain then I would be nervous if I were you ...you could be next .....COLOSSUS

MR SCHINDLER

.....I deply regret the State ordered murder of your sister ...

.....The same ghouls who avidly counted the days until your sisters body gave out are the ones who hold candle light virgils for convicted murderers on death row ...

.....Your sisters death is a window into the souless Liberal mentality and what kind of a society we would all be condemned to if they ever get complete control of this Country ...Gulags anyone? .....COLOSSUS

Elizabeth Bennett
"The difference between those of us who believe that Terri Schiavo should not have been euthanized, especially by the agonizing methods that were used and those who believe her death was a 'mercy-killing,' is based on the type of value we place on human life."

You are mistaken. Our position has nothing to do with the value we place on human life. Our position is based on the fact that Terri was no longer alive. Her heart may have been beating, but anything that had been Terri had been gone for years. When the brain is dead, life is gone. Keeping the body functioning without a brain doesn't value life.

"How many of us would be tempted to believe we 'wouldn’t want to live,' as a quadriplegic like Christopher Reeve, or with Down Syndrome, or as a cripple like FDR, or even with a cleft palate."

Again, you are operating on a false premise. It was not about the quality of Terri's life. It was about Terri no longer being alive.

Phil Mella
"It's curious that the same course of action that was inflicted on Terri would never be allowed on a convicted murdered or a dog, but because she couldn't speak for herself and because her husband was more concerned for himself than her, she wasted away in front of us."

Those are not comparable situations. Terri Schiavo was brain dead and was able to experience pain, hunger, thirst or anything else.

"No one had absolute knowledge of her medical condition, so people who try to justify what happened or what might have happened, are merely rationalizing."

This is just patently false. Her medical condition was well known to her doctors and they supported Michael's decision.

"But, what we do know is that there would have been no harm to keep her alive, and that's a patent moral failure."

No we don't know that. Unless you have had your spouse in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years, you have no frame of reference for making this judgement.

John X
"1. Terri was not PVS"

This is absolutely false.

2. Terri could not recover according to the ME. This is not neccessarily true. Adult stem cell therapy is making possible for Anoxic brain injured patients to recover.

What the ME said is true. Her cerebral cortex had liquefied. There is no way even stem cells can regenerate a cerebral cortex.

3. Michael caused Terri's collape.

There is no way Michael could have caused Terri's collapse. It was medically impossible.

4. There was Clear and Convincing Evidence that Terri wanted to die. This is one the biggest myths of all.

This is irrelevant. Michael as next of kin had the legal authority to act on her behalf.

6. Terri got "Due Process". Terri got "Process" but she did not get "Due Process".

You apparently don't understand what the term "Due Process" means. The Congress had no jurisdiction in the case and should have stayed far away from it.

7. It was private family matter. This is a media lie.

It was a private matter and it should have stayed a private matter. Just because people like you believe you have the right to impose your beliefs on other people doesn't justify your actions.

"It was shown that Michael Schiavo had absolute conflicts of interest to see Terri dead"

This has no basis in reality. There were many lies and distortions spread about Michael and this is one of them.

eastlake Joe
"JJ & Sophie You keep commenting that the medical community had pronounced her beyond rehabilitation Right?"

The ME confirmed it. End of story.

eastlake Joe
"JJ & Sophie You keep commenting that the medical community had pronounced her beyond rehabilitation Right?"

The ME confirmed it. End of story.

JJBiener
When the brain no longer functions,the patient is 'brain dead'.No doctor will say the patient is 'dead'.When the heart stops,the patient is 'dead'.Even with all the contorted excuses,you cannot refute that. Now try.

My main problem with what happened,was from the mother's point of view.Why not let her take her daughter to care for her as long as she was 'alive'.Her husband could have divorced her and that would have been understandable,since she had been sick so long and he would have lived in limbo,with no other hope for a better life.

Why was he so intent in ending her life,if she would no longer be a burden to him? There is more here than meets the eye.We may never know what his real motive was.I sure don't think anyone knows now,except him.


Elizabeth Bennett
Thank you for your gracious and thoughtful comments and for reminding people that Terri's brother would no doubt be reading these remarks.

I applaud him for making it his life's work to try to prevent the elimination of the disabled by the "quality of life" advocates.

Sadly, this is already the case in nursing homes and hospitals.

He is not talking about people who are dying of diseases, like cancer and ALS, which cannot be cured, are progressive and where only palliative care can and need be given in their final stages.

He is asking that those who are damaged but not dying and are able to digest food, are allowed to be fed and hydrated and cared for humanely for the remainder of their natural life.

Remember, those of you who snarl at Mr. Schlindler, one day you may be in need of an advocate like him. If he and those who care about life are silenced by law, as you'd like, there will be no one to speak for you.

Old age and ill health come sooner than you think when you are young and full of yourselves.

Valiant For Truth
"It’s not that Terri was unloved and unwanted. She was damaged."

Let's see you live up to your name. Terri wasn't "damaged". She was brain dead and had been for years.

"The disabled and unproductive are now in jeopardy."

This is pure nonsense. Terri wasn't disabled or unproductive. She was brain dead. To conflate the two issue is deceitful and painful to those who really are disabled.

"If their ‘quality of life’ doesn’t measure up to some arbitrary standard, then they will be considered expendable."

The issue is not Quality of Life. It is brain death. Period.

Joycey
"Only God has the authority and wisdom. Only God chooses the right moment to take us from this world. Man should not step out of his place and try to assume God's authority."

By this logic, Michael should have left Terri on the floor when she first collapsed and allowed her to die then. I think you have rather twisted view of life.

Sorry, Bobby, but her Biggest Regret....
So many conservatives are wringing their hands and Bobby is crying for candidates that clamor for government intervention.

PAY ATTENTION FOLKS. What happened to Terri could happen to you or someone you love. But it did not HAVE to happen to Terri, and it does NOT HAVE to happen to you.

There is NO WAY we want federal government intervention in cases like this. I am probably one of the most liberal posters on this board, so I am surprised I have to tell conservatives this simple life philosophy:

TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS ASPECT OF YOUR LIFE. DO NOT LEAVE IT UP TO THE GOVERNMENT. FOLLOW THE EXISTING PROCEDURES TO MAKE YOUR WISHES KNOWN AND ENFORCEABLE BY YOUR LOVED ONES BEFORE YOU BECOME ILL.

The problem was that Terri did not have a clear and explicit "living will" with her medical directives on file with her doctors and her family lawyer.

Once she fell into a state where she could not speak, the state's legal process was followed. This ultimately gave precedent to the wishes of her husband to let her die over those of other members of her family. Different states and perhaps even different doctors and hospitals could have handled her case differently.

Have YOU made your wishes known TO YOUR DOCTORS, spouse, other loved ones and lawyers? If you have not, do you know what would happen to you if you were in Terri's condition? Do you agree with it?

If Terri and her husband had taken the time to file a simple living will with medical directives, much of the tragedy would have been avoided.

Perhaps not all, because relatives may have been able to contest it. However the contest would have been over much quicker.



JJBiener
I don't know who you are and I don't know what your interest in this case is motivated by. Terri was ordered to die by judicial fiat. You can say that the congress had no authority to intervene in this case but that is factually incorrect; the congress has authority over all courts. The congress can establish jurisdiction and can dissolve any court it wants to if anybody up there on capital hill had a pair of onions.
As to some of the other specifics; you say that it is medically impossible for Michael to have caused the injury, well it is literally impossible for you to know that. Yes, he was the next of kin, however his behavior at the end of her life was in no way consistent with that of a husband, inasmuch as he was set to marry another woman. If his fidelity to his wife was irrelevent, than why was his next of kin status relevent? This is not a question of law, but of common sense.
Also, there not only is no evidence that Terri wanted to die, there is evidence that Terri would have chosen life, but that evidence was never submitted in court.
More than anything else, this case demonstrated what can happen when lawyers in black robes are given authority they were never intended to have. Sadly, this lesson costed the life of an innocent woman, who was given less appellate opportunity than any common murderer.

Robert:

You referenced my post, "Cutter Bench writes: Monday, March, 31, 2008 11:28 PM ..."

Care to answer the three simple questions I posed?

(((((((CRICKETS CHIRPING)))))))


Rowly
"When the brain no longer functions,the patient is 'brain dead'.No doctor will say the patient is 'dead'.When the heart stops,the patient is 'dead'.Even with all the contorted excuses,you cannot refute that. Now try."

You are simply mistaken. The heart can be kept beating indefinitely. Death refers to brain death.

"Why not let her take her daughter to care for her as long as she was 'alive'."

Until you have lived for 15 years with your spouse in PVS, you really don't have a frame of reference from which to judge Michael Schiavo's actions.

There is so much speculation about Michael's motives, but what were her parents' motives? They wished to keep alive the shell their daughter's spirit once occupied. Why? She had no thoughts. No feelings. No ability to experience anything around her. I assume Terri's spirit had already left her body, but if it hadn't, what were they condemning her to? Years and years of non-existence just to satisfy their own selfish needs? They are the villians in this scenario. Not Michael.

To I am Clueless:

Here's a couple of clues:

"Like a fluttering sparrow or a darting swallow,
an undeserved curse will not land on its intended victim." (Pro. 26:2)

Be careful what you conjure for others, you may very well be writing your own future...


the media also helped kill Terri
Dear Mr. Schindler,
Thank you for speaking up. Some of us will never forget the inhumane, unjust treatment of your sister and prayed for and suffered along with your family in her final days. I think the mainstream media has to bear part of the blame for misrepresenting her situation, as well. I was astounded at the ignorance of our so-called "justice" system with regard to her situation. Not only was she not sick & dying (until they deprived her of food & water) but why did her so-called "husband" have any legal standing about her care when he had become the common-law husband of another woman - living with her over a period of years and fathering children with her?
My heart and prayers go out to your family. Terri is in a better place now, at least where fallible, flawed human beings can no longer hurt her. Please allow the Lord to heal your hearts. Her death will not have been in vain, if it helps us learn some important lessons about the value of life and humane treatment of the disabled. Keep speaking up!

cornpone harry - "Beurosurgical?"

According to your earlier post, you claim to have "workled in a BEUROSURGICAL (my emphasis added)intensive care unit for 18 years?"

Is that where aspiring bureaucrats go for lobotomies?

Reardon
"I don't know who you are and I don't know what your interest in this case is motivated by."

My interest is in countering people like you who lie and distort this issue to support your own ends.

"Terri was ordered to die by judicial fiat."

Factually false. Terri was already brain dead. Her next of kin in consultation with her doctors decided to allow her body to cease functioning. The decision was made in accordance with the laws of the State of Florida, and it was reviewed and validated by every court in the State.

"you say that it is medically impossible for Michael to have caused the injury, well it is literally impossible for you to know that."

Again, factually false. I read the Guardian ad Litem report which discussed the medical aspects of the case in great detail. An artery in Terri's brain ruptured and caused a massive hemorrage. That caused the brain damage. There is no way an artery in someone's brain can be forced to rupture from the outside.

"You can say that the congress had no authority to intervene in this case but that is factually incorrect; the congress has authority over all courts."

Again, factually false. Congress has no authority over end of life issues. Congress' authority over the courts does not extend to second guessing specific decisions.


Reardon 2
"Yes, he was the next of kin, however his behavior at the end of her life was in no way consistent with that of a husband"

That is your opinion. That is not a statement of fact.

"This is not a question of law, but of common sense."

Actually this is a question of law. What you believe to be "common sense" is irrelevant.

"Sadly, this lesson costed (sic) the life of an innocent woman, who was given less appellate opportunity than any common murderer."

Again, factually false. The decision was reviewed by every court in the state. The decision was sound and it complied with Forida law.

JJBiener
You seem so sure of yourself. Like some of the others who have posted here,you have an answer for every argument. You have an opinion and yours is no better than anyone else's here,unless you were there and knew the intimate details of all involved.Were you?

I take it you are a coroner or medical examiner. Right? You must be,since you are so sure. Have you EVER known of a medical examiner or coroner to pronounce a person dead,while their heart is still beating?....I didn't think so.

The definition of death is the 'cessation of ALL vital functions. Is the heart not vital? Can you live without your heart? Do you even posess a heart?

People like you and the poster above called "I Am Who I Am " are in the same category. You just used nicer words. Now,you have a nice day and enjoy your predjudices.


Answers to Cutter Bench
Cutter Bench:

You ask questions about the state of her husband's mind.

You know NO ONE can read someone elses mind. So my guess is as good as yours. I'll give it a shot:

1) Why ... did Michael Schiavo prevent nurses from treating a simple urinary tract infection?

ANSWER: Because he changed his mind about her ability to be rehabilitated.

2) ... After the court award ... in 1992 rehabilitative therapy was never resumed. Why not?

ANSWER: Because Michael then believed rehabilitation was impossible. It would incredibly STUPID to waste the money on a therapy that would do no good.

3) Why did Michael Schiavo use [most of] the money awarded ... to pay for lawyers ... to hasten her demise... instead of using the monies for [rehabilitation]?

Answer: Because he then believed she was brain dead, rehabilitation impossible, and that she would want her body to be allowed to die in that condition. Thus it would be ghoulish and contrary to her wishes to keep her body on life support indefinitely. If the court felt its orders were disregarded it could have taken action. It did not, so they must have agreed it was OK for him to use the money as he did.

My POINT : Terri and Michael could have both shortened the WHOLE ordeal by having a will with medical directives drawn up by a lawyer on file. When they (and you if you don't have one either) failed to do that they essentially threw up their hands and said they would take their chances in court. A different court, in a different state, or different appeal judges could have made different decisions. But you take your chances when you go to court.

THE MORAL OF THE STORY: Take as much personal responsibility for your own life and fate as possible. If you don't have a living will with medical directives ON FILE with doctors, loved ones, lawyers, etc. CALL A LAWYER TODAY.

Capital Punishment if you connect me

Those of you who say you must keep all those wires, tubes, and machines connected until God says, “Let her die,” tell me how God told you to connect all that crap in the first place.

If you say God determines when she dies, you must also agree that unless you can prove God insisted on those wires, tubes, and machines, you committed a sin by connecting them in the first place.

One of the reasons today's Health Care cost is so high is that far too many times a $5,000 funeral is DELAYED by a $1,000,000 wasted expense.

Tell me two things, how much money are you willing to spend to keep one person, of any age, imitating some degree of life, and how do we make sure you spend just your money, not mine. How soon do we execute you if for some reason you connect me to some wire, tube or machine?

Usually we think of Capital Punishment for a person who killed another. I suggest Capital Punishment for someone who needlessly, carelessly, and without good reason, forces another to suffer longer than necessary.



Rowly
"You seem so sure of yourself. Like some of the others who have posted here,you have an answer for every argument."

Unlike most people here, I have actually researched the subject extensively.

"You have an opinion and yours is no better than anyone else's here,unless you were there and knew the intimate details of all involved.Were you?"

I haven't asserted anything that isn't already in the public forum.

"I take it you are a coroner or medical examiner. Right? You must be,since you are so sure."

I read the ME's report. Did you?

"Have you EVER known of a medical examiner or coroner to pronounce a person dead,while their heart is still beating"

An ME? No. Doctors? Yes.

"The definition of death is the 'cessation of ALL vital functions. Is the heart not vital? Can you live without your heart?"

A person can live on a heart/lung machine for hours during surgery while their heart is stopped. A person can live for years on a Jarvic artificial heart. Are these people dead?

"Do you even posess a heart?"

Do you? Can you see anyone else's point of view in this? From what I see you have your absolutist point of view and you are unable to see anything beyond it. Everything I have posted is based on the documented facts of the case. Can you say the same?

jim
I may be wrong,but I believe she had only a feeding tube.Would disconnect that also?

Rowly
Of course people are PROUNOUNCED DEAD WHILE THEIR HEARTS ARE STILL BEATING. In my state it is possible to designate yourself as an organ donor on your driver's licence or in a directive attached to your will. In your directive you can get very explicit on the circumstances under which you are willing to be a donor. However, generally, you can agree that if you are brain dead, but not completely dead, that you are willing to be a donor.

You can also get explicit about the circumstances under which your body is to be kept alive or allowed to die if you are declared brain dead and WHO should be allowed to make medical decisions for you in that condition.

Terri did not have such a will and directive. That meant she was saying she would rely on the courts to designate someone to make such decisions. The court ohose her husband. The rest is history.

JJ Biener:

You wrote, "Her next of kin in consultation with her doctors decided to allow her body to cease functioning."

Factually false. She was deprived of basic human sustenance, namely, food and water. More to the point, SHE WAS STARVED TO DEATH.

I suppose if you told a child to "Run in front of an oncoming Semi" your defense would be the child was "allowed" to play wherever it wanted to. Your euphemistic language is little more than lipstick on a pig, it doesn't change the cold hard facts. TERI SCHIAVO WAS STARVED TO DEATH. That's the truth.

BTW -- In the case of Teri Schiavo, the law was an a$$. My opinion, like it or not.

God bless you, Mr Schinder.
God bless you, Mr Schindler. This pro life activist family prays for you and for all pro life efforts!

topsoprano
You say,
"Terri is in a better place now, at least where fallible, flawed human beings can no longer hurt her."

If you actually believe that, why on earth would you pray to keep her here, as you said you did? Why would you support someone like her brother who tried to keep her here instead of allowing her to naturally go to "a better place."

I am asking because I genuinely want to know how someone can think about this situation this way.

You can read my posts to see how I think about it, and that I think the whole episode would have ended at the first court hearing if Terri had a medical directive filed with her doctor, her husband, her family and her lawyer that basically said -

"As long as my heart is beating, no matter how hopeless my chance for recovery, or how much pain I may appear to be in, or how much money from my estate it costs, I DEMAND that:

a) every possible medical effort be made to minimize the amount of pain I suffer

b) all medical means available be used to keep my body alive while minimizing my suffering

c) my husband [or my brother, mother, or some other person] is to make medical decisions for me if I cannot do so myself. If that person should disagree with or act contrary to a) or b) above, I demand that [someone else] be appointed in their stead.

Obviously a real lawyer would rephrase this, but you get the point.

The ME
I urge people to bear mind the following the ME said about Terri:
CNN Press Conference Transcript Piece:

QUESTION: Doctor, her family had said repeatedly that she believed that -- they believed that she interacted with them. Are you saying that's impossible?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're certainly not saying that's impossible.

Also bear in mind the following:

"The changes in the cortex were most severe in the occipital lobes, “with relative preservation of the frontal and temporal lobes.”

"Jerri Lynn Ward of Austin, Texas, notes the report released Wednesday in the high-profile case states: "The frontal temporal and temporal poles and insular-cortex demonstrated relative preservation."

"What this tells us is that her cortex retained function and that her brain was more normal in the area that controls higher-level thinking," said Ward,"


But Ward, pointing to the autopsy report, notes the brain's frontal lobe plays a part in impulse control, judgment, language, memory, motor function, problem solving, sexual behavior, socialization and spontaneity.

"It is very possible that she remained cognizant of sounds and other things without being able to communicate," Ward said. "It's possible Terri was aware of everything being done to her -- yet could do little to make people aware that she was there."

"Ward pointed out that major damage to Schiavo's brain was shown to be toward the back -- the areas that affect motor skills."

"In fact, neuropathologist Stephen Nelson, whose assessment is included in the report, conceded there is no way of determining through an autopsy whether a person was in a persistent vegetative state."