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Wednesday, February 20, 2008
Bob  Burney :: Townhall.com Columnist
Dancing on the Grave of the Church
by Bob Burney
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Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


George Barna, the beloved Christian pollster, recently announced to the world in his book “Revolution” that the institutional church was dead. That was not a problem, however, because Barna also announced a “New Reformation” that would sweep our land. He promised that this was going to “amount to a Third Great Awakening in the United States, but with a very different look, feel and outcome than previous religious upheaval.” 

According to Barna, the age of the local [read: institutional] church was dead and would be replaced by simple house churches and other non-traditional gatherings of believers. The book caused quite a stir in the evangelical world, but fortunately it was mostly ignored and Barna’s claims faded into obscurity. That was then. Like a bad horror movie (is there another kind?), “He’s back!” This time Barna is not only continuing his claim that the church is dead, he appears to be dancing on her grave.

Few people have done more for evangelical Christianity in the last 20 years than George Barna and his research organization. Month after month and year after year The Barna Group has provided vital research into religious trends across the American religious landscape. He has provided information that has been invaluable in analyzing the spiritual temperature of America. But something unfortunate has happened.  

It is rare for an “objective” pollster to release the results of a poll wrapped in an extended   “commercial” for the pollster’s newest book. But this is what appears to be the case with Barna’s latest release. And probably not coincidentally, the poll results reinforce the conclusions of the new book (“Pagan Christianity?: Exploring the Roots of Our Christian Practices”). All the credibility that The Barna Group has worked so hard to establish now lies in the ashes of self-promotion. 

The gist of the poll is that Americans are now embracing “various alternatives to a conventional church experience as being fully biblical.” Among the more startling results of the poll is that 89 percent of adults feel that an individual family worship time is just as biblical as corporate worship at a church. 75 percent believe a “house church” is valid and 69 percent feel watching a religious television program is just a biblical as attending a church. 

Unlike most Barna polls, the wording is vague and somewhat misleading. There is no indication that those responding to the poll feel that these activities are to be to the exclusion of a local church experience, but that is the way the statistics are presented. Objectivity appears gone in favor of Barna’s personal biases. Read the poll and you come away with the conclusion that the local church is either dead or dying.

The “research” portion of the article at ends with the surprising number of pastors who are now embracing house churches. Indeed, Barna states that “two out of three pastors agreed that ‘house churches are legitimate Christian churches.’” (He adds that most of those pastors are from liberal, main-line denominations.) Barna then takes a swipe at those who disagree and implies that those pastors who do not support house churches are the ones making the big bucks from the institutional church. Where’s the objectivity evident in Barna’s past work?   

Following the brief results of the latest poll, Barna then uses the results of the poll to hype his new book, “Pagan Christianity? Exploring the Roots of Our Christian Practices.” This is where things really get bizarre.

One of the more sensational claims of the new book is that most of what happens in your local church has “pagan” origins. For example, church buildings are “pagan.” Barna tells us that all of the early Christian churches met in homes. Proof? Well … everybody knows that.  

The evidence is an argument from silence. Obviously the early churches began in homes because there was nothing else. It would be just as obvious that as thousands came to Christ homes would quickly have become too small. There is no biblical “proof” that only homes were used. 

Another example: pulpits are “pagan.” According to Barna, all pulpits are “stagecraft borrowed from Greek culture.” (Has Barna not read Nehemiah 8:4 where we’re told that Ezra stood behind a “pulpit of wood” and expounded the Scriptures?)

And if the pulpit is “pagan” you can imagine what Barna thinks about the sermon. Yes, sermons are deemed “pagan” as well. Barna informs us that “preaching a sermon” came from “Greek sophists” of the late second century. I wonder what you would call it when Ezra expounded the Scripture, Moses declared the Law, Peter preached at Pentecost, Paul declared the truth on Mars Hill, etc.? Looks like a sermon, sounds like a sermon but Barna assures us that that the preaching of sermons has no place in today’s worship. (Given this, one wonders how Barna makes sense of biblical texts like Rom. 10:14-15.)

The list goes on and attacks most everything in the institutional church whether contemporary, traditional or progressive.

What has happened to George Barna and The Barna Group is anyone’s guess. We can only hope that his latest conclusions about the continued death of the Christian church will be ignored by the masses and he will do his dancing on the grave of the church—alone.

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About The Author

Bob Burney is Salem Communications’ award-winning host of Bob Burney Live, heard weekday afternoons on WRFD-AM 880 in Columbus, Ohio.

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Barna's odd statistics
Burney's odd reading?

What Burney is claiming is not exactly what Barna's website claims. I haven't read his book; I wasn't impressed with "Revolution", so I'm probably opting out of "Pagan Christianity", but his website covers the polls as well.

What the article there says is that many mainstream pastors agree that alternative worship venues like house churches MIGHT be a solution for people who are NOT otherwise involved in traditional worship. So, for the guy who is a spiritual maverick, who won't go to Sunday morning service at the building on the corner a house church might be better than not attending church at all. Most pastors, however, indicate that they wouldn't recommend it. Due to poor writing, it's sort of hard to decide if these are reasons or the result of a seperate study -- but it would seem that mainstream pastors feel that house churches lack spiritual accountability. In my church, for example, we have two associate pastors and two retired pastors, plus numerous elders who would confront our pastor if he started teaching unBiblical doctrines. Who confronts the house pastor? If someone joins who lacks an understanding of the Bible, it would be easy for a house pastor to teach almost anything unchallenged.

Barna didn't feel in Revolution that this was a problem, but of course, he's a statistician, not a pastor or theologian.

Bible Illiterates
I wish people who find it necessary to attack the Church of Christ would read a Bible first... cover to cover. The Biblical illiteracy of recent generations is the cause of profound and unnecessary dissension and misinformation, and we should be embarrassed and ashamed of ourselves.

Pagan Christianity?
Again, I haven't read Barna's latest book and after the borderline lunacy of "Revolution" I probably won't, but I felt the need to respond to some of his allegations, which I verified on the website.

No pastors until mid-second century? Hmm, what was Timothy then? Or many of the other church leaders -- often identified as overseers -- in the New Testament? The NT was written between AD 47 and AD 90, most definitely 1st Century. It is true that they weren't priests appointed by a central ruling body as the Catholic church would eventually establish, but they were obviously in some way officiating among a body of believers. I think they were much more like a congregational pastor who is hired or selected from among the members and who is subject to oversight by the congregation than they were officers from an extra-congregational authority. This is obviously based upon poor Biblical scholarship.

So lecterns (pulpits) existed before Christianity and Christians adopted them? I'm guessing benches existed before Christianity and churches adopted those also. Is it pagan to sit on a bench instead of the floor?

As Burney noted, Peter, Paul, and Stephen all stood before crowds and delivered sermons. These accounts are found in the NT. Where Barna gets an indication that this practice didn't start until the 2nd century is anybody's guess. Poor Biblical scholarship again?

The Lord's Supper always had two parts to it, from its inception at the Last Supper. There was the communal meal and then there was the breaking of bread and drinking of wine. Perhaps Mr. Barna should read 1 Corinthians to see what was occuring in the early Church. The Mass as we know it from high ecclesiastic bodies came into being much later, but the Lord's Supper as a special formatted worship event was THE focus of early church worship.

I have to agree with Mr. Barna part 1
The contemporary church mirrors the culture more than it mirrors Christ.

I don't care so much about Mr. Barna's explanations of origins of practice. I do care that we are ineffective in our culture. Christ was never restrained by formulas, but we are. Jesus went where the sick people were, He didn't wait for them to find His church building.

He was the servant-King. He said whoever is least in the kingdom of God is the greatest.

The temple building is obsolete because we are the temple of God.

Paul was an itinerant pastor. Today pastors are like savior figures. Pastor's are often aloof because they can't possibly take care of everyone, yet that is the formula. We elevate them then complain that they aren't doing enough for us. We're supposed to be taking care of each other.

Another complaint against the Church is that it' supplies pseudo-relationships. We go to church and comply with some formula or expectation of service, but come away empty. No one really knows each other.

We're focused too much on ourselves.


passive - Agreeing w You!
Many of those who attack Christianity today have little or no understanding of the Bible or the history surrounded it. They make ludicrous claims about archeology, texual criticism, document dating, the influence of paganism on Christian doctrines and practices, etc., that are easily debunked with a little bit of study using reputable scholarship.

part II
Worship...what is worship? Is it the way you live your life or is it singing songs on Sunday or is it both? I think it's both, but 'praise' in the bible is different from 'worship'. In the church there is such an emphasis on corporate worship..which I love...but that isn't nearly as important as loving your neighbor or serving others. I often feel like I'm being entertained, or the worship leader is trying to 'muster up' the Holy Spirit. Maybe in a culture inundated with entertainment and technology, the church could NOT offer those things. How about 15 minutes of silence before the service begins in reverence to God? Why are we always trying to lure people in with what we think they will respond to? Maybe we should tell them the truth and love them instead of singing badly and loudly.

Jesus spit in the dirt and wiped it on a blind man's eyes and he was healed. Jesus never healed the same way twice, why does every church practice exactly the same in formula? As followers of Christ shouldn't we at least pause and consider why we are so ineffective in our culture?

Christianity has been declared
dead for centuries, and altho' suffering "mainstream" church decline in the US, evangelicals are thriving, and elsewhere, in Asia, Africa, and S. America, Christianity, esp. Catholicism, is vigorous and burdgeoning.

So, what this guy says in some poll may not really be relevant.

Beware
I haven't read the book Burney is talking of but have heard his radio show. He often takes things out of context or brings up news stories of radical changes to traditional churches and worship and makes fun of them or declares the sky is falling. His time would be better spent for the Lord if he would focus on more positve things and methods for building up the church instead of bashing anyone that does not believe as he does. As far as the Church is concerned If it is meant to be it will happen, it not it will be stopped. God has a plan and no one including Bob Burney will get in the way of it. Traditions are just that, traditions. They don't last forever, if they did we would go to church every Sunday in a buggy, ride a horse or walk. If fact the sctipture would not be in English. Do not base any opinion on Burney's comments, read to book and make your own judgments.

CH
If I may throw my two cents' in, I think too the Church has neglected to teach her members the meaning and beauty of the traditional liturgy, as well as the purpose of the Church Year. I'm Lutheran, and though we have what is called a "contemporary" service in addition to the two "traditional" services, it hasn't increased our membership one bit. It has, however divided our congregation. Our kids, all four of them, do not like and never have liked the "entertainment" that passes for the service there. A conclusion they needed no help in reaching, either.

Teaching the members, and insisting that we hold to a high musical and hymn standard for services isn't a magic bullet, but if we weren't so focused on entertaining the "seekers" with 7-11 "praise songs" (you know, those stupid songs that have 7 words repeated 11 times) and "praise bands" and the like, in order to be considered "relevant" I wonder if we would have the problems we're facing to quite the degree we have them.

Now don't get me wrong. There's nothing in the Bible that says we can't have music by a band. But worship is not about getting us "excited for Jesus", it's about God coming to us with His gifts-and we respond with grateful thanks for all He has given us.

worship?????
What was the first act of worship in the Bible?

Abram takin ghis son on the mountain to kill him in the name of God.

Think about that for a minute....

pharoah
The first described worship is in Gen. 4:3. "In the course of time Cain brought some of the first fruits of the soil as an offering". Worship was implied in Genesis before Chapter 4.

If one is to use the Bible to make a point, it's best to be correct.


The focus of worship
Should be Jesus and His transforming work in our lives. So often, it's not.

Worship has many forms. It's not just singing, or bringing an offering, or going to church, or .... Service can be worship, if it is done as unto the Lord. Yeah, scrubbing toilets can be worship, if it's done with the right heart attitude. Those few Christians I've known with that attitude are dynamic witnesses for the gospel. Unfortunately, they are few and far between. I try to have that attitude, but often I fail.

We should be taking a very close look at what distinguished the group in Antioch where the word "Christian" was first used and trying to implement that in our churches. I have to disagree on the whole liturgical worship thing. The Antioch Christians were focused on worship, yes, but that was 300 years before the liturgical calendar even got started and they seemed to be much better at being Christians than anyone since. We should probably throw the whole liturgic, ceremonial nonsense aside as not coming down to us from Jesus and turn back to basic worship, just being with Jesus and with other Christians, learning His scripture and voicing our praise. In that, I think we will be much more led by the Holy Spirit to do what God wants rather than some pre-structured, human designed program.

Gosh....
..reading these posts I feel like I found my church.

AliveInHim
I love your description '7-11 praise songs'. What came to my mind immediately was that if they aren't fooling your kids they aren't fooling the church visitor.

Worship teams can be idolators. You can test if they are by trying to discuss different ideas about worship. If they receive what you say with an open mind and a humble heart they aren't idolators. If their face turns bright red and their head spins around, they might be worshiping the worship.

We finally told our kids that they should go to the youth group where they felt they could contribute and get fed. We didn't care what denomination it was. I dreaded the thought of them falling away from Jesus because I insisted they go to a church where I felt comfortable. This has turned out beautifully. They love their youth group, it's Assemblies of God. This church has been very gracious.

I tell my kids that there are Christians in every denomination, but many people choose to have a relationship with their religion instead of Jesus. Just because you were raised Methodist, Catholic, Lutheran doesn't mean you're a Christian.



Aurorawatcher
My favorite description of worship is from the mouth of Jesus in John 4:21-24.
The 'sinful' Samaritan woman is complaining to Jesus about the appropriate place to worship God. Jesus says, "...the true worshipers will worship me in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks."

The woman never looked at her life as a form of worship. She worried about the correct place to worship.

I know that I've worshiped God by singing, but I think, from that scripture, he's more interested in me being the temple I'm supposed to be, housing the spirit of God, acting justly, loving mercy and walking humbly with HIm. I also love the scripture, "Love never fails."

I think most Christians are sincere and want to please God and we all fall short. I think pleasing God is being able to represent him well in a fallen world.

Ron Paul Primary Opponent
Ron Paul has a very serious primary opponent in TX CD14. Some polls have him leading Paul for the Mar 4 primary. Whoever wins the primary should win the general easily.

Chris Peden is the Mayor Pro Tem of Friendswood (Houston suburb). Chris is a Conservative Republican (pro family, anti drug, pro military, economic conservative) who favors the marriage amendment.

You could really help the Rep Party if you could donate a few $$. Chris is just starting to run radio ads.

You can donate at http://www.chrispeden.org/

I am not affiliated with his campaign in anyway but I heard own of his commercials today and checked him out.

If Huckabee wanted to do something favorable for the Party he could come do a fund raiser for Chris.

house churches?
Persecution is around the corner. Parts of the bible are already outlawed in Canada. We will see the same here with the next president.

Like China we will be forced into house churches.

Dark days are ahead for America.

Not dead YET!
It is true that we have all fallen short of the Glory Of God. It is true that Christians have as much blood on the hands as Muslims. We have killed in the name of God. Here is the difference: Forgiveness and Love. Church begins in the Home and then goes from there. Going to church to be around those who believe as we do is not a bad thing, but a nessary one to strenghten each other and support in another as Christ has commanded us! Too many so-called christians go to church for nothing more than a fashion show or to gain soical standing. to go home and be a christian at home with no one but our families to see that is the great challenege. God judges the heart and the last I looked, it gets reveiled in troubled times. Remeber, Your Family sees the true Heart of Jesus at home behinde closed doors!

Barna is basically correct
Mr. Barna is obviously sick of what I call "churchianity." He sees the emptiness, the silliness, the powerlessness, the hypocrisy, the profound theological confusion and shallowness of what pretends to be Christianity in our time. He wants to start over, go back to origins but doesn't quite know how to do that. So, in his struggle, he comes up with some goofy ideas mixed in with some genuine insights of great value.

His greatest insight is that organized religion, the church, is dead. As a biblical systematic theologian, I have been painfully aware of that tragic fact for about 55 years—so, nothing new here. We have to go all the way back to the nineteenth century to find an evangelist, seminary professor or pastor who understood the basic principles of salvation and thus the central nature of Christianity itself (Charles G. Finney). Continued.............


Barna is basically correct--continued
This is why there are so excruciatingly few genuine Christians in the pulpits and in the pews today. The church is not the church anymore because it has almost totally departed from the basic theological tenets of biblical truth, principles of real worship and a lifestyle/value system consistent with what one should expect of Jesus’ followers. The lure of Satan's counterfeit theology (Augustine and Calvin) has been more than organized religion could resist, and so, its leaders fell victim to it hook, line and sinker. Satan now owns us religiously, politically, academically, judicially and in all aspects of the media. I have recently read that there are enormous numbers of people, mostly young believers, who are equally as appalled as am I when they look honestly at the present apostasy of the church and the stupendous evil of our culture.

I live in the Dallas/Ft Worth area, arguably the buckle on the Bible belt, and I cannot find a genuine New Testament church in the entirety of North Texas. I’m not looking for perfection, just accurate basic soteriological fundamentals that would define a group as legitimately Christian. We are definitely living in a post-Christian era in America that probably stretches back to the time of the civil war when Satan did his utmost to destroy us.

Barna is basically correct...continued
This is why there are so excruciatingly few genuine Christians in the pulpits and in the pews today. The church is not the church anymore because it has almost totally departed from the basic theological tenets of biblical truth, principles of real worship and a lifestyle/value system consistent with what one should expect of Jesus’ followers. The lure of Satan's counterfeit theology (Augustine and Calvin) has been more than organized religion could resist, and so, its leaders fell victim to it hook, line and sinker. Satan now owns us religiously, politically, academically, judicially and in all aspects of the media. I have recently read that there are enormous numbers of people, mostly young believers, who are equally as appalled as am I when they look honestly at the present apostasy of the church and the stupendous evil of our culture.

I live in the Dallas/Ft Worth area, arguably the buckle on the Bible belt, and I cannot find a genuine New Testament church in the entirety of North Texas. I’m not looking for perfection, just accurate basic fundamentals that would define a group as legitimately Christian. We are definitely living in a post-Christian era in America that probably stretches back to the time of the civil war when Satan did his utmost to destroy us.

Double post
Sorry for the double post. I thought part 2 got lost in computer heaven.

Barna More Right than Wrong #1
Mr. Burney is practicing what could be called an 'arrogant bunker mentality' here.

In the first place, Burney stated: "Few people have done more for evangelical Christianity in the last 20 years than George Barna and his research organization. Month after month and year after year The Barna Group has provided vital research into religious trends across the American religious landscape. He has provided information that has been invaluable in analyzing the spiritual temperature of America."

Don't you think Barna, after 20 years of researching the church, would be in a better position to see what is going on than the average person would be?

Secondly, it only takes a few minutes of research on that marvelous thing called the world wide web to check out Barna's observations and assertions. I am going to post a few references that I have found in the last 15 minutes that show that Barna is more right than wrong.

Then I will add emperical evidence from my own experience.

Communion of Saints
It is easier to be steadfast in a community of believers who can encourage and support us in our journey; it is also less likely that you will be able to justify bad or wrong behaviour when you have others to lovingly correct you. But Jesus says that when you come to the altar to leave your gift, and remember that you have a problem with your brother, go and make things right with your brother and then come back to worship. We are not, therefore, to substitute singing and praise on Sunday morning for the everyday work of loving our neighbour and supporting our family and righting our personal wrongs with amendment of life (repentance means turning away -- getting back on the path).

The kind of church that is dying, and about time too, is the kind in which people praise themslves for their piety and show off (or *strut* as my Southern Granny said) and then go home and water the milk, put their thumb on the scale and make up stories about their neighbours or try to get them evicted and their homes torn down because they interfere with the view.

We also need to do better about welcoming the stranger. Too many churches are like country clubs and the people only want to know people they already know. The stranger beside you could be Jesus. And you just told Him to get out of your pew because you were saving the seat for your girl friend!

The Church within
I gave up on organized religion years ago. Churches have become social clubs with very little biblical reality left.
Churches now appoint pastors based on what the congegation wants to hear, not what the scriptures tell us. You could read some passages from the Bible and the congrgation would call for your stoning. If given the choice between what there denomination teaches and what the Binle states, The bible loses every time.

People are the church, not the building.
Huge Church in California. Raises millions for new sanctuary bldg campus etc.... Last minute before groundbreaking for new building they change their minds. Instead they give the money to local projects for helping those in need. They now hold their services outside in a field of grass. Rain or shine. Who needs a building to have church?

The institutional Church is dead
Barna's right. There are lots of house churches. It's impossible to know how many. We have one here at our house. We don't do sermons with the sophistry style that Barna describes. Sophistry is much different from what Paul, Jesus did. Barna has done the research. So have I and many, many others. He's just saying what many of us have discovered and rejected. Nothing wrong with meeting in buildings, but the treatment of the building as some kind of holy sanctuary is not biblical. Neither is treating a man who is called pastor as holy or special. Biblically, Barna is referring to the ministry of all believers.

Perfect Churches
I have belonged to a house church. If you think about it for only a few moments it isn't hard to come up with some drawbacks. When God tells us to love one another He doesn't mean we should know one another far too intimately. That is reserved for the family. What will the neighbors think? Probably that they live next to some sort of a cult. Now in Hawaii we saw groups gathered on the beaches for Sunday worship. I would have enjoyed that but my husband was not comfortable. It is hard for strangers to walk up to a tight group of friends uninvited. In Louisiana we belonged to a wealthy social club church with a gifted Pastor. His sermons were fascinating. But few grew, that is until Katrina hit. The church doors flew open and the needy came in along with help from around the country and the church grew up. The church is just a group of sinners that believe, are saved and are WIP. There are drawbacks to every physical facility. This isn't a perfect world. We aren't going to make a perfect church out of imperfect people. Since my family has had to travel so much and attend so many churches all I can recommend is a very friendly smile to every familiar and unfamiliar face and sound biblical teaching and try to steer clear of the high school clique thing. To that Miss Betty always added a big hug and Mr. John always carried a bucket of candy and Miss Jeanine always gave up a short prayer.

Philosophy has downsized ...
since the 60's. Back then "great thinkers" sold their opinions and stirred up emotions with "God is dead".

Good news - the ultimate truth of existence will be revealed. Bad news - it may be revealed after your death. For those that believe God provides insight into truth through the Bible, the Book of Revelation, chapters 2 & 3 particularly, provide some useful background. I don't seem to be aware of their fulfilled yet. Maybe these truths are being fulfilled now?

If the reader of the Bible seems confusing on this article's content, then read Chuck Colson's book "The Body" - he got it right!

Dancing on the Grave of the Church
I'm glad we don't have to sit under the gospel according to Barna. I know of several churches that are really alive. Then there are recorded miracles in crusades around the world and even in the USA.

I do however, think that most of the main line denominations are fully dead; those that deny miracles and other manifestations of a living and ever lasting loving God.

Revival?
There is little question that America is ripe for another great revival, however we may not be ready for what it may take to accomplish a movement back to the God of our creation. The day after 9-11 the churches were full, and for several weeks there after. Our country is more in rebellion than at any time in our history. We have moved more like the churches in Europe that sit empty as their culture has become more worldly. The growth of radical Islam, atheistism, and those who unlike their grandparents, have been raised outside the church have added to the number of non church attendees. Issues like abortion, homosexualility, greed, and the break up of the family unit have contributed to the move away from the truth of Christ and the bible. I think revival will come, but it may be very painful for a lot of people, it will either be that or the return of Christ or both..

The Nature of Satan!
I usually transgress upon theological discussions like they were a mine-field...but I can't resist. I was brought up in "the church" but theology's flexible "take" of the nature of Satan has always intrigued me! In science there are seldom more than 2-3 competing theories of a phenomena...but there are perhaps 10,000 religious "creeds" with strongly defended interpretations of "Satan's" nature. ColinCody at 6:15AM speaks of Satan... with a capital "S"...as though "Lucifer" was a physical being [perhaps even with horns and a forked tail]. Another reading suggests "Satan" may be any church or creed which runs counter to the Colin's interpretation of "biblical truth" [meaning in Colin's case the "creeds" and teachings of Calvin and Augustine]. Satan [he tells us] now "owns" society's institutions [religion, academia, the judiciary, the media, etc.], and that at the time of "the civil war Satan did his best to destroy us". Explain, please [perhaps the freeing of the slaves or related restrictions on states rights was not "biblical"?] Wow! Now that's one bad hombre! Ultimate question! What has the God of Christianity...the all powerful, all knowing, and all merciful...been doing while all this mischief [inflicted upon both the wicked and the innocent] has been going on?

Jim-Too!

To Jim,
Hey Jim, I would say you have a copy of the Holy Bible around the house somewhere, why not just take it out, dust it off, and just for the fun of it on a rainy day, start reading it. Say a little prayer that Holy Spirit with make the words come alive to you. Start with the book of John. If you start with Genesis you will get to Leviticus and quit (honest) I wont even go into the points in your post here, but if you do as I ask you will get all your answers and your life may well be changed forever. God is a God of love, and we are commanded to love one another. In the early church when the Jews and Gentiles saw the love of those in the church fellowship, they wanted to be a part of it..God bless in your study...

Why Christianity is in trouble
"One of the more sensational claims of the new book is that most of what happens in your local church has “pagan” origins. For example, church buildings are “pagan.” Barna tells us that all of the early Christian churches met in homes. Proof? Well … everybody knows that."

I thought "home worship" WAS how Christianity began?!?

My guess is Christianity is in real trouble in America because of the huge mismatch between the cultural milieu in which Judaism and Christianity grew up 2,000 years ago and our American political/economic/technological/scientific cultural milieu.

How many supposed American Christians go to church each Sunday are just going through the motions?

Let's use sports in Minnesota as an example to make my point: How many supposed Minnesota Christians are far more excited about the upcoming big Vikings or Twins game than going to church?

How many churches host Super Bowl game parties?

Answer these questions, you'll get a much better take on the "health" of American Christianity than that which you'd get from Barna.

Barna More Right than Wrong #2
Neither scripture nor history is silent about the fact that churches met in homes - by design.

"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands." (Acts 17:24 NIV)

Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. (Romans 12:4,5)

"We have no temples or alters." This statement, referring to Christians, comes from the pen of the apologist (defender) Minicus Felix, c 200, and all evidence supports its accuracy.
Throughout at least the first two centuries there were no church buildings as such, and this was so remarkable that to the pagan population, it was considered grounds for accusing the Christians of 'atheism.' In a world notable for the number of its holy shrines and the rivers of blood that flowed daily from the sacrificial victims, Christians were conspicuous in that they possessed neither the first nor engaged in the second." Secular Use of Church Buildings, JG Davies, 1968: page 1.

As for Saul, he made havoc of the church, entering every house, and dragging off men and women, committing them to prison. Acts 8:3 (NKJV)

Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who is the first fruits of Achaia to Christ. Romans 16:5 (NKJV)

The churches of Asia greet you. Aquila and Priscilla greet you heartily in the Lord, with the church that is in their house. 1 Cor 16:19 (NKJV)

Greet the brethren who are in Laodicea, and Nymphas and the church that is in his house. Col 4:15 (NKJV)

... to the beloved Apphia, Archippus our fellow soldier, and to the church in your house: Philem 1:2 (NKJV)

"Not until the third century do we have evidence of special buildings being constructed for Christian gatherings." Robert Banks, Paul's Idea of Community

House Church Movement #1
The House Church Movement by Loren Smith

A largely hidden, yet growing phenomenon is changing the face of Christianity in the West and profoundly affecting the way in which Christians are choosing to practice their faith. Disillusioned by the lack of New Testament realities, abusive authority and the spreading apostasy within large segments of institutionalized Christianity, thousands of Christians across America, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United Kingdom are gathering in homes to study the Scriptures together, pray, share the Lord's Supper and experience the fellowship and simplicity of first century Christianity.

"Yes, we are right now in the midst of the early days of a sovereign, very radical, move of God," says Nate Krupp, publisher of the book God's Simple Plan For His Church on his home church website, Radical Christianity. "We are seeing God do incredible things: people are leaving the institutional church by the thousands; they are tired of being an audience, instead of a body; they question increasingly all the money that goes into buildings; they are tired of being controlled and manipulated; they long to use their giftings to serve God and see 'the priesthood of all believers', instead of 'the clergy' and they long to see the Holy Spirit allowed to freely move instead of everything being controlled.

God is sovereignly, in these days, raising up a massive, growing movement of people who are desiring to function like the early Christians in the Book of Acts. Believers are turning their backs on all the programs and returning to their first love, Jesus."

(Continued in next post)

House Church Movement #2
(Continued from The House Church Movement by Loren Smith.)

Jon Zens, editor of the quarterly publication, Searching Together, and another advocate of New Testament church life, has also observed a growing exodus of people from institutional churches across America. "I see three basic phenomena as to why people are exiting the institutional church," Zen explains. "After years of starving in the institutional church, they leave to find New Testament realities. People study their Bibles and come to perceive a huge chasm between the New Testament and the traditional church and often they leave after the institutional church disregards their pleas for change."

If there has been some success with the traditional church model throughout the centuries, why bother to change? "While the traditional one-man, church building model has some visible success, there are many undeniable statistics that point to the reality of such success being short term, " Zens answered. "Divorce, suicide, nervous breakdown, burnout, etc abound among clergy.

The average pastorate in the Southern Baptist Convention is under 18 months. The high-pressure altar call tactics have proven to produce "converts" that rarely last. Even with all the empirical evidence that many things are amuck in the traditional model, the real issue is 'what does the NT teach?'

If any model contradicts or stifles the New Testament pattern, it should be jettisoned for such reasons alone. The early church had no clergy and no sacred buildings, and in this regard was radically different from all other religions, including Judaism. The proliferation of expensive church buildings constitutes a fundamental compromise of what Christ intended to build. Thus, believers gathering in informal settings [in] homes, rented store-fronts, outdoors and apartments apparently provides the best context for the 58 "one anothers" [in the Bible] to be fleshed out."

The House Church Movement #3
(Continued from The House Church Movement by Loren Smith.)

In an article entitled Four Tragic Shifts in the Visible Church, 180-400 A.D., Zens writes. "Some assert that since the early church met primarily in homes, we are obliged to emulate this example. I think the primary theological point of the New Testament in this regard is that under the New Covenant there are no holy places. Contemporary Christianity has almost no grasp of this significant point. Taking a cue from the Old Covenant, people are still lead to believe that a church building is 'the house of God.' Believers are free to meet any place in which they can foster, cultivate and attain the goals set before them by Christ. The problem today is that many church structures neither promote nor accomplish Christ's desires for His body. Homes are a neutral place for believers to meet, and the early church flourished well into the first and second centuries without erecting any temple-like edifices. But the issue is still not in what type of place believers gather, but what shape their committed life together takes as they wrestle with the many duties and privileges flowing out of the priesthood of all believers."

Christian Smith, writing in the journal Voices In The Wilderness, develops this theme further. "God intends church to be a community of believers in which each member contributes their special gift, talent, or ability to the whole, so that, through the active participation and contribution of all, the needs of the community are met. In other words, what we ought to see in our churches is 'the ministry of the people,' not 'the ministry of the professional.' The role of the clergy is essentially the centralization and professionalization of the gifts of the whole body into one person. The problem is that, regardless of what our theologies tell us about the purpose of clergy, the actual effect of the clergy profession is to make the body of Christ lame.

House Church Movement #4
(Continued from The House Church Movement by Loren Smith.)

A number of observers suggest that the movement back to the simplicity and intimacy of New Testament Christianity is a part of God's overall plan to prepare the church for difficult days ahead.

Al Dager, in a recent issue of Media Spotlight, writes. "Recognizing that there are some churches whose leadership are operating with servant's hearts and godly spirits, we nevertheless have concluded that the vast majority of churches are leaning toward the one-world, ecumenical religious system that ultimately will be the only one sanctioned by governments around the world. Those who resist the politically correct standards of the world's religious community will eventually be forced to conform or lose their tax-exempt status.

It is because perilous times are upon us that the Church must begin to look anew at its form and function. While the present forms and functions have served since the Reformation, they will prove inadequate, and in some cases, even dangerous to the spiritual and temporal benefit of Christ's body.

We are witnessing the beginning of the Underground Church in America - a church that will take lessons from the brethren who have survived in other countries where Faith has been and is still persecuted. If we in the West think we will escape what our brethren have suffered for centuries merely because we trust that 'things like that can never happen in America,' we are closing our eyes to reality. The persecution will come from our own households and from the churches themselves."

House Church Movement #5
(Continued from The House Church Movement by Loren Smith.)

Asked whether the house church movement is simply another religious fad that people will soon tire of, Zens had this to say. "No, I don't think it will ever be just a fad for several reasons. One, it's been around a long time. There was a significant home church movement in Australia beginning in 1968.

Obviously, for years home meetings have been the norm in China, Latin America and other places in the world. Two, it has New Testament justification and sanction, and so could hardly be a fad. If persecution erupts in America, the house church model could suddenly be very common, as churches that require immense weekly overhead to operate could fold virtually overnight.

I think it will take catastrophic events to awaken the church to what is important in the Kingdom. If and when that happens, the shape of believers' lives together will change rapidly. As long as our affluence continues, the informal approach to church will remain. But whether something is minority or majority is hardly the issue.

Our concern must be, 'how will we follow Christ in all areas of our lives? Are we going to obey the New Testament or not? One brother in our assembly has said, 'our way of doing church is not popular. It requires hard work and commitment.'

The home church movement, of course, is not monolithic," Zens pointed out. "I have no idea where it will go in the next five years. But I know this, no movement will prosper long if it does not center on exalting Jesus Christ and obeying His Word."

Article originally posted at: http://housechurch.org/basics/lorin_smith.html

House Churches Around the World
Bangladesh: 500,000 new believers in HC's

Cambodia: 1,000 new HC's in 10 years (1990 to 2000)

Canada: as many as 2,000 HC's in Canada in the last few years

China: 80-100 million believers in HC's

Cuba: 6,000-10,000 HC's since 1992

Egypt: 4,000 HC's

Ethiopia: growth from 5,000 to 50,000 believers in HC's during the 1980's

India: approx. 100,000 HC's started in 5 years (from 2001 - 2006)

Latin America: 1 million HC-type groups known as 'Basic Ecclesial Communities'

Sri Lanka: Kithu Sevena church movement started 131 new HC's in 7 months (in 2004)

Vietnam: one church planting team start 550 new HC's in 2 years (1997 to 1999)

U.S.A.: 1,600 HC's listed on internet alone (as of 2003) with possibly as many as 30,000 HC's

Statistical Sources: Rad Zdero (2004), The Global House Church Movement; Rad Zdero (2007), Nexus: The World House Church Movement Reader; Dawn Friday Fax, http://www.jesus.org.uk/dawn; Wolfgang Simson (2007), The Starfish Manifesto; Wolfgang Simson, EaSi Newsletter, July 2007)

CALIFSON at 2:16PM.
Your right, CALISON! I have a half-dozen Bibles on my bookshelves [including the Jeffersonian Bible] and at one time or another I've perused studied most of it's teachings [including Leviticus]. I'll issue you a challenge, CLAIFSON, and it's validity is unquestionable because it's absolutely "biblical". I asked a legitimate question but you abstained. Instead you recommended that I read John for my answer [questioning the "Nature of Satan"}. In Bible School we leaned a story about Phillip who chanced upon a poor numbskull like myself who was trying to make some sense of the Bible. I must paraphrase a bit, but you'll get the gist. What do you read there, asked Phillip. How can I possibly know [the numbscull responded] unless someone tell me. The parable was not told for our mere entertainment but to teach us a Christian duty. So tell me, CALISON! I'll be gentle but firm when I say DON'T PASS THE BUCK!

Jim-Too!

Jim-Tool
What God is doing while Satan has his way with humanity under his sway is quite simple.

The Merciful and Just Creator of the universe is deferring the execution of judgment so that souls may be saved.

@ Jim
To the best of my knowledge, Lucifer/Satan does not have a physical body. He, like all other angels, is a spirit. In theory, I suppose that he could appear to a person as an ordinary man, as angels are known to have done in the scriptures, but that wouldn't further his own goal of drawing people away from God and to himself.

And no, no horns or forked tail. C.S. Lewis put together an interesting argument along those lines in the book 'The Screwtape Letters'; the advice being given by a demonic superior to the assigned tempter of a man (and yes, I recognize that's probably not the way it really works) was [paraphrased, and probably badly misquoted in the process - it's been a while since I read the book]: "Suggest to him the image of a figure in a red cape and tights, then suggest that because he can't believe in -that-, he can't believe in you."

And Satan isn't the church or creed, no, but he is the spirit ultimately behind most of them out there. Whether a given person agrees with the creed or not doesn't change its own status of being valid or invalid. If what I believe is wrong, then no amount of me screaming "But I BELIEVE it's true!!" will ever actually make it so. The only valid measure with which to make this kind of measurement is the scriptures themselves.

@ Jim 2
Satan does own the society's institutions; recall, he is known as the god of this world. This does not make him deity, but it does mean that he commands the world's systems, and it should be noted that most of them seem to worship him, or to convince mankind to follow in his own path.

I cannot speak on the civil war argument; I do not know enough of where the poster was coming from.

And what has God been doing? Depends - have you asked him for help? If not, don't be surprised if you don't receive any. Satan trys to deceive and destroy; the Lord of Hosts has been ensuring that His word is made known, and has been willingly offering the only escape from Satan's grasp - salvation purchased at the cost of Christ's death - to all who seek it.

Ender at 5:15PM
Thanks, Ender! I once had a teacher who declared that she'd received her most valuable "education" researching her more vexatious students questions and debating the issues with her young charges. Some folk have an abject fear of "debating" theological issues except with a friendly audience [also known as "preaching to the choir"]. The reason? I'm confident that most are insecure in their "convictions"...and fear that those beliefs will not stand close scrutiny. I may not [do not!] agree with Ender on all the issues ["The Nature of Satan"] but I now have a fuller understanding of how ONE MORE person comprehends the issue [and in one of those rare instances for a Town-Hall post neither commentator felt inclined to "beat up" on the other]!

Jim-Too!

House Churches and History
One of the biggest myths from history is that the house churches described in the New Testament were situations wherein people would simply meet together in somebody's living room and talk about the new faith. Often, specific rooms were actually dedicated and used only for worship.

In fact, there was a dedicated church in Megiddo, from which we also have indications of early iconography and art, dating to 70 a.d. This clearly does not support the claim that "there were no churches for the first two centuries."

As for the article itself, it is little wonder that this would happen in the West. It is merely an extension of the natural egocentrism that has resulted from the introduction of scholasticism in the West by the church in Rome. The Reformation merely spread this egocentrism, taking the heresies of the papal claims and extending them to each individual. That is, the Reformation, in effect, made each man a pope unto himself. The inevitable result of Luther's innovations of "sola fide" and "sola scriptura" is that there is no actual, real-world need for the Church.

The neo-gnosticism of the West, too, has played a very important role in this disturbing trend. By denying the real-world presence and effect of grace, and banishing the Faith to the realm of a mental and/or emotional state or position and the separation of the actual physical aspect of the Faith in the theology of the West, we can see that the full understanding of there being a Body of Christ has been, sadly, twisted. Corporate worship and the Western understanding of the Faith are so far removed from its roots and lodged in the scholastic tradition that has poisoned the West that this authors' claims and positions are not shocking and only carry to its logical conclusions the positions that began with the church in Rome and were broadened by the Reformation.

the sinner,

Charles

The nature of Satan---
Jim, I also was brought up in the “church” and became a Baptist minister before becoming totally disillusioned with churchianity and drifting into various forms of atheism/skepticism for about fourteen years. So, I know where you may be coming from.

In all my theological studies, formal and otherwise, I have run across only a few views on the nature of Satan, certainly not even remotely ten thousand. Some people believe the name, Satan, stands for the presence of moral evil in our world. Those who do not believe in the reality of evil think all such references to unseen, spiritual beings or even evil itself are simply ludicrous twaddle.

My view based on many years of biblical study, life experience, observation, reading and reflection is that Satan is a real, literal spiritual being, but not the one the spiritually blind world pictures him to be. He does not wear a red union suit, have horns and a furry face or carry a pitch fork. He is not omnipresent (neither is God, BTW) though he exerts worldwide influence through his representatives, the demon hoards. Those who claim to have seen him say he is extremely impressive in appearance, even magnificently beautiful. His aim is to deprive God of as many people as he can by deceiving them into living for themselves supremely. Since that is Satan’s secret life principle, those who live by it are automatically rendered in league with him and thus ultimately headed for his abode, hell. Continued…..

The nature of Satan, etc. continued---
Satan owns societies institutions because the apostate church has surrendered them to him in blind stupidity. Long observation will reveal them to be greatly corrupted in almost every detail.

The freeing of the slaves and restrictions on states rights has nothing to do with my view that the depths of church apostasy probably started about the time of the civil war. That war was devastating to both sides and produced great spiritual harm because of the vast evil that was done to all concerned. This immense moral darkness plunged the entire nation into a kind of spiritual depression that is with us still, thus making it more possible for religious lunacy to be the norm rather than the exception.

While I am not God’s secretary, I believe it is plain to see that God is not the author if the “mischief” to which you refer. Having been given free will to choose between virtue and evil, most of humanity down through history has chosen to live by Satan’s principle of life, the supreme evil of self-serving, in preference to the greater good of unselfishly serving their loving Creator and helping others. As men have followed this principle of evil, they have caused all the “mischief” and much more of which we are ignorant....continued--


The nature of Satan, etc. continued---
God is not all-powerful in the pagan sense of being able to do anything conceivable. He can only do what can be done according to the laws of the universe. For instance, he cannot be virtuous and evil simultaneously nor can he create automatons with moral choice. In the nature of reality, morality requires freedom to choose between moral virtue and moral evil. For man to be made in God’s image and likeness, he had to be created free to choose and thus free to do vast evil that God can counter only when a spiritually powerful church prays and works in his power against that evil. The apostate church is no help to God whatsoever in counteracting evil in our world.

An accurate biblical view of God’s omniscience is that, though he knows the past and what is going on in the present, he cannot know with certainty what people will do in the future because of man’s free choice. It is a serious mistake to blame God for the evil that men do because you mistakenly assume that God knew beforehand what was going to happen and didn’t stop it. Even had he known what would happen in a given circumstance, there is reason to believe he could not have stopped it given the laws of reality and man’s spiritual blindness resulting in an inability to be divinely instructed and guided to avoid the catastrophy.

As a former skeptic of all things religious myself, I am totally convinced that the great majority of atheism in our world today is due to the Satanically inspired misunderstandings of Scripture passed down to us from Origin, Augustine and Calvin that make Christianity seem to be unreasonable and even loony tunes. The truth, however, frees us to believe.

The Church!
I being Christian, always thought that a Church Building was a place to gather and praise and serve God, out of the weather. I started out, attending services in a house. Soon as the congregatiion grew, it was readily apparent there was need for a Church building. So, we decided to build a building, and when we were finished, thats what we had, just a building,but it wasn't a Church, the people who were of a particular belief there was the Church, and we as a Church worshiped our Heavenly Father as members of HIS CHURCH. We did so out of the Rain, sleet, snow, whatever, and we fellowshipped there just as we did in the house. So didn't worship the preacher, nor was the building fancy inside. No Christian rock band to get us in the mood to praise the Lord, just plain old singing, and I liked it that way!
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