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Monday, March 30, 2009
Bill Steigerwald :: Townhall.com Columnist
How to End Drug Violence - an Interview
by Bill Steigerwald
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


You don't have to be a Harvard economics professor like Jeffrey Miron to know that America's war on drugs has been a lost cause for decades. Now a bloody war between the Mexican government and vicious drug cartels is raging just across our southern border, killing thousands and threatening to spread into the U.S.A.

The Obama administration's response, typically and predictably, is to send more police and troops to try to protect and control the border. But as Miron recently pointed out in a piece for CNN.com, the cause of the violence in Mexico is our country's own misbegotten policy of drug prohibition, which drives the market for drugs underground and creates the same kind of violence, corruption and disrespect for the law among the populace that we saw during our failed war against alcohol.

Miron, who believes that legalizing all drugs is the best way to reduce drug violence on our borders and in our cities, was in Boston when I talked to him Monday morning.

Q: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently blamed our inability to prevent weapons from being smuggled across the border to arm the drug cartels in Mexico for the deaths of thousands of police officers, soldiers and civilians there. She also said it was America's "insatiable demand" for drugs that fuels the violence on the border. Should she have emphasized that "demand" part of it more?

A: Well, no. Of course at some level she's right. If there were no demand for drugs, there would be no drug market. It wouldn't matter whether we prohibited drugs; there would be no violence. But there is going to be a demand for drugs whether we like it or not, and if we drive the market underground we are going to have many more negative side-effects of that market than if we were to adopt a regime of legalization.. I think she is really missing the key way in which (the U.S. policy of drug prohibition) is responsible for the current situation.

Q: Can you give me your sound-bite synopsis of what you think America's war on drugs is?

A: I would say it is fundamentally an attempt to suppress behavior that people are afraid of, or to suppress people that a majority is afraid of, rather than being what it claims to be, which is a well-intentioned effort to keep people from harming themselves or to prevent the negative side-effects of drug use on others. There's no question that many people think that what we are doing is being benevolently paternalistic or we're trying to prevent negative spillover from drug use. But drug prohibition is not accomplishing that effectively. If that is your goal, it makes far more sense to keep it legal and directly address those side effects and have policies like moderate regulation and taxation, rather than driving the market underground, which generates all these ancillary side effects.

Q: What in a nutshell should our drug policy be?

A: In a nutshell, it should be much more like our policy for alcohol and tobacco. It should be regulated and taxed in moderate ways. Very high tax rates and very extreme regulation would drive the (drug) market back underground. But moderate taxation and moderate regulation would nudge things in the right direction. Then we could try to address some of the worst irresponsible uses of drugs without creating a black market.

Q: In U.S. cities much of the violence is centered in and around fights over drug turf. Wouldn't most of it disappear if drugs were legalized?

A: Yeah, a lot of the violence is related to the drug trade, so most of that should go away under legalization. We don't see violence being used to resolve disputes in legal industries, with rare, rare, rare exceptions. Of course some violence doesn't have anything to do with the drug trade, so I'm certainly not claiming violence would go away completely. But reasonable estimates suggest that maybe 25 to 50 percent of homicides, for example, have a pretty direct connection to attempts to resolve disputes in underground markets, especially the drug market. So you're talking about a substantial reduction in violence.

Q: America's people and politicians finally wised up and repealed alcohol prohibition. Do you think they'll do the same with drug prohibition?

A: I think they will, but I don't know how soon it's going to be.

Q: Do you see any bright spots? For, example President Obama has told the DEA to stop raiding medical marijuana facilities in California that are legal under state law.

A: There's some sort of schizophrenia in the Obama administration. They called off the marijuana raids in California, but at the same time they are talking about sending a lot more troops and resources to the Mexican border to try and close that border, which in my view is counter-productive. So it's unclear.

Q: When President Obama meets with Mexican President Calderone this month, what do you wish Obama would say to Calderone regarding this drug warfare on our border?

A: The ideal thing would be for him to say the U.S. has decided to legalize drugs, but I don't think that's going to happen. What Obama could say, which I think is possible and would be productive, is that Mexico should scale back its attempts to punish the cartels and break up the cartels and to stop the flow of drugs. The more it does to punish and break up the cartels, the more violence it generates.

If there is an underground market that is left alone, it doesn't seem to generate nearly as much violence and corruption as when you try to clamp down on it. We've seen this big escalation in violence along the border in the last two years at precisely the period over which Calderone has tried to escalate the war against the drug cartels. So we hope that maybe Obama can just say "De-escalate" and we'll get fewer of these bad side-effects.

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About The Author
Bill Steigerwald, born and raised in Pittsburgh, is a former L.A. Times copy editor and free-lancer who also worked as a docudrama researcher for CBS-TV in Hollywood before becoming a reporter for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and a columnist Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Bill Steigerwald recently retired from daily newspaper journalism..
 
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legalize it
Tax it and regulate it. Also - remove tax free status from all churches, especially Christian churches as they're the cash cow.

Guns and Drugs
If we would cut back on guns being sold and restrict them severely we could really help Mexico out. The gangs are coming up here to get the guns to murder thousands of Mexicans!

If not legalization, then...
As a libertarian, I support the idea of drug legalization. But you don't have to be a crazed radical libertairan to support it. Our current drug laws are wrong because they deny the free chice of people whether or not to use drugs (the "pure" libertarian position) but also because the laws don't work-- they don't stop drug use, and they seem to make the bad effects of drug abuse worse instead of better-- and because the effort to enforce the drug laws is damaging our constitutional liberties and rights. I commend Townhall for running a pro-legalization article, though I'm sure many traditionalist conservatives will be offended.

But given that legalization is not a popular political position now, I'd settle for some politician brave enough to at least make the following statement; "I understand that the American people want drugs to remain illegal. But drugs are not our highest law enforcement priority. If I have only enough prison space for one criminal, I'm going to use it for someone who uses violence against unwilling victims, not someone who chooses to use drugs or sells them to willing customers. And there will be no more 'drug exceptions' to the Bill of Rights on my watch. Drug law enforcers will not be allowed to use illegal and unconstitutional tactics."

HOLY COW!!!
What an EXCELLENT article!

Obama has certainly misled many of my fellow liberals on the issue of drug legalization.

Prohibition has proven its inefficacy time and again. When will we learn our lesson?

Legalize it, restrict it, build a framework to prevent misuse, and enjoy the tax benefits!

Stupid
The argument for legalized drug use definitely has some merit, though it pains me to say. However, once again it works against the left's thinking that healthcare should be free for all. How does one decide who gets the care when it starts to be rationed? Me or the addict? Where is the cost control when we have more and more junkies?

Yeah, Taft
Restricting gun sales has woked out sooooo well for the people of nations that have tried it.

Both drug and gun prohibition is an exercise in futility.

Prohition does not work. Never has. If it did, you could not buy a drink, Enlglan would have disarmed Ireland centuries ago, and there would be no Christian religion.

Do I really need to go back further than 2000 years ?

Jim
Why then do the gangs have to come to the US to get their guns. Its very hard to get a gun in Mexico. I agree that legalizing pot might work.

Jon
Jon honey, money that has been charitably given has already been taxed. The Constitution does not allow the federal government any power over any church.

Taft
Are you insane?

Steigerwald
Hoping the government becomes our drug pushers?

Harvard
probably puts out the most druggies and so one of their professors is probably an expert.

Just Confiscate All Guns
If we could just confiscate all the useless guns in civilian hands in America, Mexican cartels would seek non-violent ways of resolving their business disputes. They would never resort to clubs, machetes, bombs or stolen military hardware to hurt innocent people.

Deep down, they are really just good folks with entrepreneurial drive. They see a need and create a market. In the absence of guns, the cartels would cooperate, just like OPEC, in a loving, economical and green manner to bring their product to the American consumer.

Are we so selfish to not see this vision of truth?

Singapore or Holland
Singapore- if you're a drug dealer-you die,if you're an addict you go to rehab

Holland-do want you want- they don't care

America doesn't have the b---s for the Singapore approach so we'll go for the decriminalization approach.

I don't care if people use drugs IF they and not society would accept the consequences of their behavior. NO DRUGS and DRIVING, NO ER w/o insurance if YOU OVERDOSE!

Take all the drugs you want BUT take the consequences for taking them.

Taft Doesn't Live Near the Border
The fact that there are violent drug gangs In Mexico just a few miles from my house is one of the many reasons we NEED guns. If you live in any major city in America, you have the same problem. The criminals are armed to the teeth. Go after them. Leave the citizen alone.

Taft,
I would submit for consideration that the cartels could not survive in their current form if the Mexican people were armed as the US people are.

The possibility of getting killed does wonders to modify your behavior.

Why stop at drugs?
Let's face it, if you legalize drugs then people using drugs are no longer breaking the law. Why stop there? Let's get rid of speed limits so that police can spend their time focusing on more important crimes than someone doing 80 in a 65. Sure, they could lose control of their car and have an accident that kills someone obeying the laws but that's a chance we are willing to take.

I can understand legalizing marijuana. The effects on a person who uses are not much worse than someone who drinks alcohol. In morderation it's nothing harmful but in excess it is damaging. Some drugs are not as bad as people think, but many are.

If we legalize harder drugs that do have damaging effects on the mind and body then hospitals will become overwhelmed with abusers needing treatment. Did anyone ever think that some drugs are illegal for the safety of other people from the one using the drug? Some drugs are so addicting that the abusers end up on the streets because all of their money goes towards the next fix. How many crack addicts do you see with a steady job and a nice home?

If we throw in the towel then we are basically telling the world that we will back down to those who challenge our morals and values and conform to their ways of thought. It's a good thing we didn't take that approach with Hitler.

Legalizing Drugs is absolutely ignorant
I am amazed at the ignorance of the results of a legalized drug society. The impact on families and businesses would be devastating. The Legalize crowd ignores the statistics of those in prison that the families that are abusing marijuana and alcohol freely with their kids have produced non-productive societal drop-outs. Their lives become focused on getting high rather than facing life. The abuse of drugs destroys the family unit because responsible behavior is non-existent. Abuse of kids and wives or girlfriends is rampant among daily drug users. Why do you think that Amsterdam is finally backing off their drug crazy culture?
Terry

Guns and Drugs by Taft
Ever think, no, lets not go there. Maybe some of those guns are going to the citizens for protection of their homes, from the cartels. If I lived down there, I'd sure be looking for a way to protect My Home. We all know the police can't protect us, not with a 30 to 45 minute response time. I don't want to wait for the cops, I may be dead anyway.
We need harder, tougher laws on everything, now try to enforce them as we layoff police because we can't pay them.

Guns and Drugs by Taft
Ever think, no, lets not go there. Maybe some of those guns are going to the citizens for protection of their homes, from the cartels. If I lived down there, I'd sure be looking for a way to protect My Home. We all know the police can't protect us, not with a 30 to 45 minute response time. I don't want to wait for the cops, I may be dead anyway.
We need harder, tougher laws on everything, now try to enforce them as we layoff police because we can't pay them.

Legalizing Potatoes is absolutely ignora
Let us insert the word potatoe into Terry's post instead of drugs and see if it makes more sense. Next where did you get your stats, I think you just thought them up.

THE TURKISH SOLUTION

.....Two men were caught smuggling drugs across the border ...they were tried for a capital offense and were beheaded the next day ...

.....Compare Turkey's drug problem to ours and get a clue ...

.....They way to stop illegal drug use is to make the punishment severe enough to discourage the risk ...it is the only way that will work but we do not have the stomache for it so we shuck and jive and the beat goes on ..."What fools these mortals be" .....COLOSSUS

Drugs etc.
The most draconian laws are those intended to protect us from ourselves. Whenever a service or a product are made illegal, they do not disappear. They mere give organized crime a monopoly, with the usual results. In states with dry counties, the prohibitionist and bootleggers vote for the same laws. Our appetite for drugs has always caused problems. Because of the Obama administration's announce campaign regarding an intent to impose the banning of military looking firearms, purchase limitations, and even strange laws regarding ammunition, there is a panic buying binge on firearms and ammunition that has resulted firearms dealers everywhere selling out nearly their entire inventories. Will the Democrats ever learn anything?

using drug war as excuse for amnesty

the ObaMessiah's stratagem about ILLEGALS...

Watch the Chosen One press for Scamnesty shortly using the hackneyed, disingenuous line, "bringing people out of the shadows," under the artful guise of getting ILLEGALS to help fight drug cartels-- that is like treating the leukemia patient with an injection of cancer cells so he won't die of leukemia!

As a dedicated soldier in the fight to save America from myopic, beleaguered tolerance and acceptance of the ILLEGAL invasion, I surely appreciate the frustration of the majority of Americans (70%+) with quisling politicians.

The left KNOWS that ILLEGALS will vote 95% for big entitlement guvment, which explains why the ObaMessiah has stopped construction of the border fence, which was well under way-- and working where it was done right.

HOWEVER, the fight is NOT lost!!!
We stopped Kennedy-McCain Scamnesty, then killed the disingenuous "Dream Act," a liberal gambit to give ILLEGALS a free community college education and thence a path to citizenship, and blue state N.Y. stanched the governor Spitzer's scheme to give ILLEGALS licenses, which 77% of Americans oppose per Rasmussen (because licenses are a step toward voting and scamnesty).

Join the fight, Middle America to save YOUR COUNTRY!!!!!!!!

The BEST group to assist you is Numbers USA... several senators agreed that they were the group most responsible for stanching Kennedy-McQuisling Scamnesty:

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/

They have targeted e-mails and messages for Congress, OR you can contact Congress directly at the official sites right here:

http://www.congressmerge.com/

BOOKMARK it, and rattle those cages in Congress often! Save YOUR country before it is too late!

Blue dog Çrats (e.g., Heath Shuler) are already starting to resist the ObaMessiah and the hard left-- hope is NOT lost, BUT it WILL require dedication from Middle America!

Dan, Dan, Dan...
First things first. Drugs are legal. Hard addictive drugs are legal.
Cocaine, Heroin, Morphine, Dilaudid, Fentanyl, Oxycodone, Amphetamines, Barbiturates, Marijuana all legal.

The primary difference between legal drugs and illegal drugs are pretty much as follows:

1. The country in which the raw material is derived.
Poppies (papaver somniferum) are the source of all opium which is used to manufacture all morphine and opiate derivatives in the world. Poppies are legal to grow and process in some countries. Turkey is the largest 'legal' producer of poppies. In Afghanistan the US and Britain want them eradicated. Do you know why?

2. Who makes the drugs.
The government issues licenses to drug manufacturers. They pay exorbitant fees for the privilege to make and sell these 'legal' drugs.
How did the government get title to the raw materials or the drugs in that it issues licenses to buy, make and sell them?

3. Person, place and thing who distributes and sells the drugs.
Companies buy and sell drugs; Doctors have a license to distribute prescriptions for all legal drugs, including Morphine sulfate which is nothing but purified opium. Marinol is processed marijuana designed to provide the same effects as smoking it; Relaxation, pain relief, increased appetite.

Pharmacists are licensed to sell the drugs. They sell every form of drug to anyone with a prescription.

People who have a legal prescription can get just as addicted to legal drugs as those who can get addicted to what you call illegal drugs.
Are they equally bad?

The fact is, there is very little difference other than your perception; you think it's okay for some people to use drugs as long as their dealers and manufacturers are government approved. Paying for the government permit and being subservient to these senseless rules, somehow this makes it all different.

Happy Now?


Dan
Are you suggesting people don't lose control of their cars when they drive 65?

Are you suggesting that people can only die in a car accident if they drive 80?

Can they die or get hurt driving 25?
Should we make the speed limit 20?

If I follow your 'logic' perhaps we should just get rid of cars?

THE BEAST
For those who want legalized drugs in America: Welcomed to the infernal regions. If you think that things could not get much worses, just wait and see, if this nation is so foolish as to stop fighting this premier evil. ARROW.

Drugs are LEGAL...
The Drug Trade has been taken over by the Fascist Socialists.

The government controls the manufacturing, the distribution and the means of production of all 'legal' drugs in the US.

Socialism: public or state ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.

See: Obama isn't the only socialist in America
Thanks to Woodrow Wilson we have been a fascist nation ever since.

Happy Now?

makes sense
It only makes sense that legalizing drugs would cut down on a lot of violence, however, there are some drugs that should be very tightly controlled, such as cocaine and methamphetamine.
Look back to the days of alcohol prohibition. It didn't stop people from buying or drinking it, and violence stemmed from rival gangs that manufactured, sold and distributed it.
Jails and prisons are overcrowded with people who simply possessed marijuana, or perhaps sold it.
The war on drugs is a failure and the policies need to change.

Legalize the darn drugs!
I think that there are less drunk drivers on the road these days and booze is still legal. When it was illegal we had the Mafia, similar to the drug lords. Legalize the drugs, apply the same laws as we ALREADY HAVE about impaired driving and tax them. There is no proof that if the drugs were legalized that there would be more drug use. That's just not true. How about all those drug users that are in jail now that were productive members of society? Now they can't even get a job because they are felons. Their families are destroyed by the welfare system and another family bites the dust. For what? We also have overcrowding in jails and violent people are being released while pot smokers are being held on mandatory sentencing laws. Tell me why I should be more afraid of a recreational drug user than a murderer or a drunk? As for the weapons that the cartels are using? I believe that these aren't military *STYLE* weapons as Hillary claims, these are actual military weapons that our country has supplied to Mexico. The corrupt government down there has allowed the bad guys access to them... They've gotten almost a billion dollars of military aid last year. Tanks, guns, training etc. and now look at what's happening.

Wise up
Kids doing drugs is not a good thing and many kids buy and use them because of the fact that it is illegal. Legalize them and it is no longer so tempting.

Just say no to taxes
Chairman Mao took all the opium heads into a stadium and executed them and that stopped the drug problem in China.

Chairman Mao didn’t want the problems that drugs cause destroying the revolution only Communism would be allowed to do that.

So killing all the dope heads is not the solution for America.

I would suggest that good fences make good neighbors.

And good tax laws make better neighbors.

With good tax laws drug problems would only be a problem for people that do the drugs.

But that’s not how socialism works.

We are all responsible for what someone else does under our current tax laws.

And for all you dope smoking libertarians you’ll never get into power because you need a big government and lots of money to support all the drug addicts.

The solution is simple.
Produce a drug that can be dropped by airplane that will pollute the product so that anyone who uses it will die, and anyone who is in the field when it is sprayed, will die.

Is that much different from letting them kill each other at the border, or by misusing the drug?

Do you really care about any provider or user of those drugs? I don't.

Helots
Calling drug use a freedom is like calling slaves taxpayers.

It’s all so very easy to see if you’d just put that joint out.

Tempting Part 1
It's been months since I last posted and I suspect that it'll be quite a while until I post again but I felt compelled to say something when I saw this. As someone with daily exposure to Counter Narco-Terrorism, as the WODs is now called, I'd like to believe that I have a unique vantage point from which to write.

We did not start off in this country with drug laws; in fact there were none. Heroin and Cocaine use became prevalent after the Civil War with (primarily) soldiers looking for coping mechanisms for their physical and mental pain. As is well documented, common medicines and tonics utilized fairly strong ingredients but could claim fantastic results. This led to an even wider spread of use in the population, so much in fact, that over the span of nearly 30 years huge segments of the population was addicted (and along with it the common problems associated with sever addiction); thus the first drug laws.

Much like the temperance movement, there was quite a bit of ideology and personal philosophy wrapped in well-intentioned laws. No one wants to be told what to do; every one of us having a bit of libertarian in us. And certainly a job this big is going to be difficult and expensive.

So are the restrictions, is the WODs, a lost cause?

Tempting Part 2
The government, via our representation, reflects the wishes of the majority. Voters have decided that they've seen enough of strung-out junkies, and mothers who neglect their children for one more hit. The effects of addiction to these chemicals is devastating. Most people don't give a $hit if some dumb-dumb decides to ruin his life but the moment the problem takes a dollar out of your pocket or your playground gets turned into a needle dump you say enough. Legalizing it will only make this problem bigger -- if you don't believe it look what happened to Thailand when they tried it several decades ago; their society was practically useless.

So no, we won't ever "win" the WODs; that's never been the point. But you are never going to win the war on crime either -- but could you imagine what would happened if you just threw in the towel on that front, simply because it's too hard? No, the point is to drive the price of the product up as far as you can so you can make gaining access as expensive and difficult as is feasible. That way you can attempt to discourage through outrageous prices and vigorous enforcement. Stem the tide; help keep the wider world functioning.

Sorry for the long post.

No coincidence...
Rob the 'Pirate' believes taxing the fruit of another man's labor is not evidence of slavery. If it isn't slavery it's at best, legalized theft.

Newsflash: putting liens on someones wages does in fact imply shared ownership (equitable interest) which entitles the holder of the lien to a share of the fruit. If that doesn't imply slavery you don't know the definition of slavery, indentured servitude or serfdom.

So, Maoist communism is bad but some socialism is good?

Joel is right-It's a state issue, however, it wouldn't resolve the black market in states where it is still illegal. Unfortunately you would end up with much of the same just on a smaller scale.

I just want to know how the government came to 'own' all the plants?

How the government got the authority to name some plants good and some plants bad?

Let me guess...When God made every seed bearing plant and called them good, He was mistaken? He really meant some plants are good as long as the government licenses their use. Oh-okay...

Happy Now?


Helot defined...
Helot One of a class of serfs in ancient Sparta, neither a slave nor a free citizen.
A person in servitude; a serf.

Are you sure you aren't a Helot?

I think most Americans are, although I don't live in Sparta. I live in Ohio...

Guess that makes me an O'helot

Happy Now?

The solution is simple...??

"Produce a drug that can be dropped by airplane that will pollute the product so that anyone who uses it will die, and anyone who is in the field when it is sprayed, will die."

Would the 'drug' pollute just the plants the government deems illegal? Otherwise, where would the government get the plants they use to have the legal drugs manufactured?

You do realize all legal drugs use the same raw materials and precursors to produce the drugs sold in pharmacies?

I don't know-I think this calls for something on the order of another
'Final Solution'.

You know, "Wir sind gerade folgende Ordnungen!"

YOU CAN'T JUST BUY FULL-AUTO!!!!
Taft is a certified gold-plated liberal moron where guns are concerned. A Class III legal gun is worth from $5-35k apiece!!! WHO is going to sell THAT for a few hundred bucks to some unwashed illegal invader? NOBODY!!!!!!!!!

The guns they're tracking are usually stolen guns sold via the black market. A Chinese company called Norinco IS shipping entire PALLETS of full-auto AK-47 clones to Nicaragua, Panama and other countries who GLADLY sell them for $50/copy and they ARE full-auto MILITARY weapons.

Want to quiet Meheeco? Put a .50 round through Hugo Chavez' head from about 880 yards and SCOOT!!!

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

The Chinese solution:
Round up the drug dealers (large volume) in a given area. Then line them up in central square and shoot them all in the back of the head and charge their families for the bullet!!!

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Mexicans come here...
Taft wrote: "Why do Mexicans come here to get their guns? Guns are very hard to find in Mexico."

Guns require manufacturing and Mexico has very little of that. It requires steel, machining, welding, etc...
Slightly more advanced culture you know...

Don't the politicians keep telling us Mexicans come here to do the jobs Americans won't. Like melon pickin' and stuff like that...

Woot!

Happy Now?

Dan 16th reply
that was the best reply and i agree 100 percent

Start with marijuanan 1st...
Legalizing marijuana is a great idea! First we will have private companies and/or corporations grow, manufacture, and distribute the marijuana. Then the government can come in and tax it. People won’t have to visit their neighborhood dealer anymore, just go to the local ABC or liquor store to buy it.

THEN, the anti-smoking zealots will come in and start to sue the companies and/or corporations because this stuff is a public health risk (second hand smoke and all that). Don’t forget about the states that will join in so they can make some money off of this.

THEN, the Feds will come in and say that marijuana is a public health problem and put it under the control of the FDA. There it will be regulated and taxed until it will be just as easy and cheaper to go back to your neighborhood dealer to buy an ounce or two from him again.

Let’s go for it!

Legalize Drugs?
Legalizing drugs will solve the "drug problem" the same way that ending prohibition solved the alcohol problem. Controling the bad effects of legalized drug use will work about as well as controling the bad effects of using legal alcohol.

Depends on who is talking

When I see replies from Ohio, it reminds me of a story.

A young lady from out west was visiting Boston, and when she was introduced to a starchy Boston Matron, she was asked, “Where are you from?”

The young lady said, “Idaho.”

The matron responded, “In Boston we pronounce that Ohio.”


wrong Border
The border that truely need protecting is the southern Mexican border. Would not it solve both problems illegal aliens in Mexico and unwanted illegal drugs in Mexico. Would it not make for a better situation for both nations, and allow the Mexican government to develop their oil fields which they could sell to the United States.

How to legalize drugs
We have to elect politicians who'll do it. So that means don't vote for Statists, and most Republicans are Statists when it comes to drugs, and now most Democrats are too. I suggest you don't vote for the lesser of two evils, and instead vote for someone who's principals are for freedom like libertarians or constitutionalists. If you vote for evil, that's what you'll get and you'll deserve it too.

Parker-OH
I USUALLY do not get personal in my postings.. But U Sir/Mam/It must be a product of Oberlin College or possibly TEACH there?? By the way I agree with Wrat Wrangler on the "Chinese Solution" SO THERE

Parker bleats again!!
In Afghanistan AND Vietnam, backwoods craftsmen with FEW tools turned out GREAT copies of AK-47 full auto rifles you twit!!! They did a GREAT job on the Russian with em too.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Ban guns
Yup. If banning worked so well we wouldn't be having the problem with drugs. Aren't they banned?(illegal) How stupid can some people be that they don't see the connection? DUH!!
Drugs are illegal.
No problem getting them.
So how is making guns illegal going to stop the bad guys from getting them?
DUH!!!!

Jackie
I think that there are less drunk drivers on the road these days and booze is still legal. When it was illegal we had the Mafia, similar to the drug lords. Legalize the drugs, apply the same laws as we ALREADY HAVE about impaired driving and tax them.


ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!!!
Smart lady!

Parker
I was in northern CA on a wildfire last fall and a local forester was educating me. He's been advocating your theory for years. They have what they need to do it. Something about pollinating. But the gov won't. Why? Got me. Is the war on drugs a profit maker for some?

Miron needs to look at drugs closer
Back in the early 1900s all drugs were legal. You could get cocaine and herion at the local pharmacy along with many others. No presciption was required for anything except to identify what the doctor thought you should take for some sickness. You could go directly to the pharmacy to get whatever you wanted.

The reason drugs were made illegal was because of the crime and abuse of families by drug users. Yes, the drugs were cheap. So what? If a drug user stays on them all the time, as many do even today, he runs out of money. When he does, he takes the money the family has to get more. When the family runs out, he steals. It doesn't matter how much or how little the drugs cost. Lowering the price by making them legal might cut out the drug dealers we have now but it won't stop the crimes of those who need money to buy. And the price probably wouldn't be that much lower anyway since the government would be sure to have 'sin' taxes attached as they do to cigarettes and alcohol now. So there would likely be people willing to sell them illegally under the table for a cheaper price.

So what is the real difference? It means people like Miron who want to use drugs don't have to worry about being arrested for it. That is the ONLY difference. And anyone who says they can control their drug use is lying - to himself most of all.

We're NOT talking heroin and coke here!
We're talking about a NON-gateway drug which is barely a drug called cannabis. I know people with serious problems and they can't keep the pills down unless it's with pot.

WHAT good is a med for IBS if you can't take it? Or migraine or insomnia for example. A very dear young lady friend has ALL THREE and cancer runs in her family as well.

Get off the "all drugs" soapbox for a moment and look at them individually. Even cocaine is not serious until it's cooked into crack. The high lasts only minutes. Crack per vial is not expensive but when they have to smoke 30-50 vials a day to get and stay high that's the problem.

In the Andes a coca leaf is chewed for everything from menstrual pain to childbirth to migraine. A leaf, NOT highly concentrated cocaine powder. THAT'S another problem. We Westerners can't be happy with a little nibble. NO. We HAVE to distill the leaf to its chemical base and SNORT it.

Decriminalize, THEN legalize pot. Tax and regulate it like booze but keep the REST illegal. The hundreds of millions wasted chasing a few potheads and small scale dealers will finance the REAL war on drugs AND the Border Wall.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Hush Professor Miron!
Don't you know that you're not allowed to use grownup talk to address the unconstitutional and immoral oppression of the liberty to govern your own body in America these days? You'll upset our governors!
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