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Tuesday, December 02, 2008
Bill Murchison :: Townhall.com Columnist
Homicidal Maniacs On The Loose
by Bill Murchison
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For two or three years running, it seems, all we've heard from the political left in the United States, concerning the war on terror, is: Aren't we awful?

Blog and editorial commentary around presidential election time tilted heavily to the view that it was high time we restored constitutional liberties after their trashing by the George W. Bush administration. We needed to close the Guantanamo holding pen for terrorists, tighten the rules against spying on Americans, renounce disgusting forms of interrogational persuasion (usually labeled torture), and broaden the judicial rights of suspected or accused terrorists.

That was before Mumbai and the fiendish slaughter by Islamic terrorists of nearly 200 unoffending Indians, along with a few foreigners, including an American Jewish couple with, fortunately, an unharmed 2-year-old child.

If the Mumbai bloodbath fails to refocus some American eyes on the complexity and immense risk involved in combating homicidal maniacs, what, frankly, will?

I have grown fond of using the phrase "homicidal maniacs" when discussing terrorists. It's what they are, and if not demented, (meaning deprived of reason, in the way modern psychiatry has taught us to talk), they're morally hollow, which comes to the same thing. They're kindred spirits to Javier Bardem in "No Country for Old Men"; killing machines, without pity or remorse; the diametrical opposites of, shall we say, Jesus, Socrates and the Buddha.

Possibly there's no use laboring the point. How you endeavor to stop mad dogs is the point: not shooting on sight, of course, unless they come foaming around the corner, but, rather, to begin with taking them as seriously as they take their potential victims.

I'm not sure the Western left is ready for that crucial step. Its legions would rather shred Bush. Not to mention Vice President Cheney, whom various left-wing types hope they can indict for God knows what after he leaves office, as punishment for helping keep us safe.

It seems to have escaped general notice in recent years that the United States hasn't been subjected to a single terrorist attack since 9/11. For which there are likely various reasons: among them, the lack of a substantial radicalized domestic community into which terrorists can blend. We're not Baghdad. We're not even Mumbai or Jakarta. We're Dallas and Chicago and Casper, Wyo. You can't pull the stuff in places like this that you pull abroad.

But surely much of the credit for our thus-far-clean record of public safety is owing to stringent federal measures to catch or head off terrorists: domestic surveillance included; Guantanamo included; the Patriot Act included; conceivably even water boarding. (As if the momentary terrorizing of a terrorist, for the sake of prospectively vital information could offset the prospect of preserving American lives and property!)

Mumbai reminds us that terrorists aren't idealists, they're barely identifiable as human; it reminds us, further, that heading them off is a proposition more urgent than cleaning up after them. Clearly a civilized nation, which we still were, the last time I looked, shouldn't and won't insert bamboo slivers under fingernails to extract The Truth. That nation has a right anyway to snoop effectively in order to protect even ACLU members against threats of mayhem and massacre.

The Western left gives lip service to the idea of self-defense without acknowledging the danger of defending too little or too lethargically -- the very danger that the Mumbai massacres exemplify. It's an old syndrome of the left, seen back in the '60s in the context of inner-city crime and Vietnam protest. It begins with figuring that the disrupters of order enjoy at least some marginal entitlement to understanding, "victims" as they are of "society." Normally those who thus argue usually live in safe neighborhoods -- the United States, for example.

One thing's sure: No such neighborhoods can remain safe unless constantly and efficiently patrolled by the forces of law and order so as to exclude the entrepreneurial mass murderer. We're the good guys, comparatively speaking. They're the miserably, exquisitely bad guys. Why do so many Western liberals have so hard a time with that simple, undeniable proposition?

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About The Author
Bill Murchison is a senior columns writer for The Dallas Morning News and author of There's More to Life Than Politics.
 
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©Creators Syndicate ©Creators Syndicate
Homicidal Maniacs On The Loose
We as a nation will require another gutting of our white distended underbelly before we come together again.

And we will always have to come behind and clean up liberal dogmata.

Good and evil? Ha!
"We're the good guys, comparatively speaking. They're the miserably, exquisitely bad guys. Why do so many Western liberals have so hard a time with that simple, undeniable proposition?"

Because they do deny it; they don't believe in the existence of evil, or morality. Everything is relative to a liberal. There is no good or evil, only relative situations. To label something good or bad is to be "judgmental," one of the greatest sins a liberal can commit. Evildoers are seen as merely victims understandably reacting to oppression, usually by Western Civilization (if anything is evil in a liberal's view, it is Western society). Everybody is a victim of something; there is no personal responsibility.

Don't look for common sense from these fools. They're too sophisticated for that.

misses the point.
The people who attacked Mumbai are fairly described as homicidal maniacs, but what is missing from the argument is how that supports the use of torture by our agents against people, many of who have since been released because innocent (or even worse continue to be held despite being innocent since we don't know what to do with innocent people who have been tortured into mental incapacity).

There are a lot of things that might be tried to stop this kind of terrorism. Providing more help to the terrorists in their recruitment crusades does not seem to be one of them.

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I disagree
Describing them as "homocidal maniacs" ignores the fact that they are well organized, well trained, well funded, militarily disciplined, politically astute and knowledgable, purposeful, and long term goal oriented.

Hardly the characteristics of maniacs.

The only thing they seem to have in common with homocidal maniacs is their apparent disregard for their own comfort in pursuit of their objectives.

I'm sure they laugh at waterboarding.

Hey Lon
You said:
"the use of torture by our agents against people, many of who have since been released because innocent (or even worse continue to be held despite being innocent since we don't know what to do with innocent people who have been tortured into mental incapacity)."

Seems to me some those "Innocent" terrorist that have been released, have returned to the battlefield. I believe the number is ten that have been killed or captured.

Also, can you provide a single incidence of an Innocent prisoner being tortured into a "Mental Incapacity" by the united states. Of course we all saw the videos of Sadam's police throwing people off of two story buildings with their hands tied behind their backs. Oh, then there is the video of the Jewish kid that had his head cut off.

You sir, are one of the fools this article typifies.

sandrob
Well at Abu Ghraib we saw an example of an innocent tortured to death, but admittedly that is not the same as tortured to mental incapacitation. And with Jose Padilla we saw someone tortured to mental incapacitation and then had the charges that justified the torture dropped, although admittedly he was then convicted, despite not being able to help with his defense, of lesser charges, pretty much the defintion of a kangaroo court.

This idea of released prisoners returning to battle turned out to be something of a wives tale. People who had spoken out about the torture they received were counted as having fought against us on the grounds that it was not in our interest for it to be known we were torturing. But even suppose that is true and that of the hundreds that have been released from Guantanamo (and more from other places) ten are known to have fought against us, do you really think that supports your idea that we did not torture any innocents?

Boumediane, who became famous for having his name on the Habeas corpus case was recently ordered released because the charges against him had reduced to the level that he was accused of intending to train as a terrorist at some time in the future. That is, he was not a terrorist but the government had a hunch that he would become so some time in the future.

But closing your eyes covering your ears and saying, we don't torture innocent people is one approach to take. Not everybody can deal with reality.

But are you saying Hussein was bad too so what we did doesn't matter? Wow you got me there.

Does anyone know if ...?
the Mumbai terrorists managed to take and secure American or British hostages? I've tried to follow the stories and I was left with the impression that they didn't, but that doesn't make sense to me. They were, by all accounts, seeking American and British citizens, but only 5 Americans were killed, so it would seem to me that they must have been seeking hostages. Are people missing? I wish the media would actually cover these things because I think it's probably important. Somehow, it just seems like an awful lot of effort the terrorists went through if all they accomplished was tearing up a couple of hotels and shooting a few Indian police. I think there might be a bigger story here.

Of course, it's also possible I've missed it because I can't watch the news 24/7 and our local newspaper didn't include it in paragraph 43.

aurorawatcher, your Q...No! is the A
You wrote:
"Subject: Does anyone know if ...?
the Mumbai terrorists managed to take and secure American or British hostages? I've tried to follow the stories and I was left with the impression that they didn't, but that doesn't make sense to me."

No, the Mumbai terrorists did not "secure" ANYONE, including Americans, Britons or the Jews (which included several Americans). Yes, there were 6 Americans and 1 Briton that were killed, but others either were shot or spent hours in terror while hiding. If you ask why the overall number fails to make sense, then the answer is that the jihadists don't discriminate. They secure no one. In fact, several of the terrorists hid among the hostages only to open fire on them later and many were Muslim and Hindus.

According to the terrorist, who was taken into custody, the plan was to kill, at least, 5,000 people. Terrorists do not "secure" anyone. They kill as many as possible when they have a chance...even if those people are Muslims.

Terrorists do not want to secure a peaceful coexistence. The aim of Jihadists is to 1) restore all countries that were once Muslim, even those where Islam ruled back in the 7th century, such as many in Europe like Spain and France; 2) or bring it to the US, UK and other Western States, except that, should we say "No", then they will destroy us; and 3) they want to impose their own definition of Islam on Muslim countries, especially countries like Turkey, Iraq, and, perhaps, even Jordan and Egypt.

Security is NOT an option for peace-loving people. No one is secure where terrorist thugs want to impose their own vision of what Islam is and where it should be practiced. We all make a grave mistake in believing otherwise. The "we" here is all peoples, including those Muslims that want no part of the radical Islamic agenda.

but you're wrong
"Mumbai reminds us that terrorists aren't idealists, they're barely identifiable as human."

The problem is that they honestly believe that they are the good guys fighting the evil infidels. That's what makes them so scary. If they were just in it for the money, like the Somali pirates, we could stop them by convincing them they won't be around long enough to spend their loot. If they were just psychopaths, they couldn't form a global network. They are convinced that they are absolutely doing the right thing. They're on a mission from God and nothing, not even their own deaths, will stop them. It's the same fanaticasism that inspired the Crusades and the Inquisition.

"Homicidal maniacs"
I've 'taken' to the same characterization ... and as recent as last night, as the re-post comment to Dennis Prager below indicates.

vonryansexpress
Location: CA
Reply # 12
Date: Dec 2, 2008 - 3:49 AM EST

Why? homicidal maniacs that's why.

The same reason that saw Leon Klinghoffer shot in the forehead and tossed with his wheelchair into the sea.
The same character of men that took and murdered Dora Bloch in Kampala following the raid at Entebbe.
The same glee in the last inhuman eye Daniel Pearl saw as he was beheaded.

From Dreyfus and false charges to seedy Gauleigters, blood libel and now, Arab press and new libels, "Jewish matza made of Arab blood", the bad purpose of evil remains. New victims, different names.

Prime Minister Thatcher remarked of the IRA that "Murder is murder is murder. It is not political, it is murder."

When the Nazi War Crimes Tribunal found Julius Streicher culpable of war crimes it was not for his acts of war or political hand in the death machine. Streicher was put to death for the words and the evil he generated with those words as he whipped up hate against Jews with his "Das Stumer" propaganda paper.

The radical Islamists and the criminal PLO before are new faces of previously vented murderous hate. It doesn't matter how a young hater gets to his/her maniacal rage, once there, they are simply known as evil.

Some like Streicher turn neighbor against neighbor, person against other human person. Others take the cry and wreck havoc. Evil is both instigation and the conduct that announces its arrival.

The maniacs are armed and primed.

Tired and trite
Once again some left wing type writes,"but what is missing from the argument is how that supports the use of torture by our agents against people...." We have not "tortured" anyone at Gitmo, no matter what the lefties constantly claim. Waterboarding is not torture, and in fact used to be done to our own troops as part of E&E training, if you were caught. Believe me, I know.
It is permissible under the terms of the Geneva Convention and the Law of Land Warfare, to summarily execute combatants captured on the battlefield if they are not wearing uniforms, or other identifying regalia, are fighting from hospitals, schools or even mosques, are hiding amongst groups of civilians, all of which the terrorists taken in Iraq were doing. I seriously wish we had execfuted them on the spot, as was done in WW II, instead of sending them to that luxury "prison" at Gitmo.

interesting
That vonryansexpress talks about a war crimes tribunal, and how Thatcher called the IRA "murderers".
Why interesting?
Because Germany and Britian TRIED the murderers in public courts of law, with lawyers, and rules of evidence and, yes, Habeas Corpus.

We do not know if the prisoners at Gitmo were terrorist s or not--they could very well be--but we don't know.

We don't know because we violate our own Constitution and the ancient writ of Habeas Corpus by locking these guys up, with no charges, no public evidentiary hearings, no transparency.

So end this national shame, follow Germany and Britain's examples, close Gitmo down, and try the prisoners in an open court of law.

wbheff is WRONG ABOUT SUMMARY EXECUTION

Wbheff: you need to update your knowledge about summary executions on the battlefield. the Geneva Convention prohibits summary execution.

The Second Additional Protocol of the Geneva Conventions (1977) states: "No sentence shall be passed and no penalty shall be executed on a person found guilty of an offence except pursuant to a conviction pronounced by a court offering the essential guarantees of independence and impartiality." (Second Protocol of the Geneva Conventions (1977) Art 6.2)

Iam- Your Conservative friend, with
differing opinions...

You wrote: Subject: interesting
Why interesting?
Because Germany and Britian TRIED the murderers in public courts of law, with lawyers, and rules of evidence and, yes, Habeas Corpus.

We do not know if the prisoners at Gitmo were terrorist s or not--they could very well be--but we don't know.

We don't know because we violate our own Constitution and the ancient writ of Habeas Corpus by locking these guys up, with no charges, no public evidentiary hearings, no transparency.

So end this national shame, follow Germany and Britain's examples, close Gitmo down, and try the prisoners in an open court of law.

Iam, as an attorney of nearly 2 decades, I can tell that there are problems with closing GITMO.

No Miranda warning read or counsel provided in the battlefield? That is, basically, a get out of jail free card.

No rendition, i.e., we can't send prisoners back to countries where they might be tortured or killed. So, what then?

Trials in Fed Cts.? This would allow for the Defendant to 1) see all evidence used against him even, if such, it would reveal State secrets; and 2) allow for the cross-examination of those, whose idenity we protect, i.e. CIA agents.

Found Not Guilty? Well, then they would be deportable except where rendition is applicable or released into the US, ahead of those that have been awaiting for legal immigration for a long time, which should scare the living daylights out of us all.

Even Obama has recognized these problems as he has suggested either an Extra-Judicial or Military Tribunal on American soil, in which there would be no public review or transparency. If convicted or found to be terrorists (that they can't convict, they would be sent to detention in the US, but outside of General Population. Does the first sound familiar? Yes, it is what we have at GITMO. The second part would send the ACLU into convulsions.

Couldn't Agree More!!
Homicidal psychotic narcissistic maniacs at the very least! I started referring to the suicide bombers as homicidal murderers long ago. Death dealing drones from hell is a label that is too good for what they are. I hope they spend eternity in a lake of fire in hell for what they did.

There is a Silver Lining here.

Its a good thing this happened in India.

If the same thing happened here the Liberals would be screaming the police executed the terrorist without a trial.

No to "Homocidal Maniacs"
The Left and MSM, which may very well be one in the same, have been trying to redefine terrorism since 9/11. "Oh, let's be nice to those, who tried or succeeded in killing us. It wasn't really their faults, it was America's."

They are what they are... TERRORISTS! Further, it is our fault? Excuse me, but terrorists kill everyone that either disagrees with them or just happens to be collateral damage even if those they murdered were Muslims.

The psychobabble of the Left and their willingness to believe that terrorists only act because of what they "perceive" America has done to them is disgusting. Would they change their minds if they or their friends/family were subjected to terrorism? Many would, but others would continue.

Well, I say, they are terrorists. They weren't born because of Bush's actions. I don't think that Bush impacted the Palestinians, who killed Jewish athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. I don't believe that Bush caused the Breslin murders of hundreds of children in Russia. I don't believe that Bush was responsible for the first WTC, or the bombings that blew up the embassies in Tanzania and Kenya (?), or the USS Cole bombing, or the Khobar Towers mass murder.

A terrorist is a terrorist and better off dead.
They may be "homocidal maniacs", but THEY ARE, WITHOUT A DOUBT, TERRORISTS AND SHOULD BE TREATED THAT WAY. PERIOD.

Afterall, they can get the psychobabble after they are dead, but as for the 72 virgins, the terrorists may be out of luck. Hell may have fury like a woman scorned, but it doesn't specialize in Virgins.

Denise:
Hello, fellow attorney!

You make some really excellent points about the problems around closing Gitmo and of what to do with the prisoners. It is a really vexing problem (and one I believe, like the Iraq war, should never have been undertaken to begin with).

At a bare minimum, however, I do believe that there should be hearings for the prisoners to present their own evidence, and to review the evidence against them. If some of that evidence involves state secrets, the judge can examine it in camera.

The rendition issue is already a problem. there are, according to the Bush administration, prisoners who have been cleared or for whom there is lack of evidence--who are there because no one will take them and their governments use torture. The question is then what is the just thing to do in their cases.

What Obama does is still to be seen, but I believe that the whole episode was a giant and grievous mistake, and that he doesn't really have any completely good options (for the reasons you outlined)

I guess we'll have to stay tuned....take care!

.............
----We don't know because we violate our own Constitution and the ancient writ of Habeas Corpus---

The Constitution applies on American soil. Were these islamic battlefield combatants apprehended on US soil?

Iam, esq. - Thank you
You wrote: Hello, fellow attorney!
You make some really excellent points about the problems around closing Gitmo and of what to do with the prisoners. It is a really vexing problem (and one I believe, like the Iraq war, should never have been undertaken to begin with) (Denise, which I repecfully disagree)...
I guess we'll have to stay tuned....take care!

Iam, thank you and I am glad that I am not the only attorney that proudly recognizes my profession. I am not sure of your line of practice, but I am an O&G, Corporate, and Securities attorney. I do know that we get a bad rap, but, hey, our numbers are better than those of Congress!

I am not ready to disagree, in toto, with you about your assertion concerning that some at GITMO have already been cleared, but I do think that they should have a fair trial, even it is extra-judicial or military and may be held on US soil. The last thing that I want is to see them in Federal Court because, if they are not convicted, then they may be released into our neighborhoods. And, for all of those screaming in Hollywood and NYC, I wonder if they want the freed GITMO detainees released into their neighborhoods. Well, maybe, Sean Penn, et al, will house them.

You know that since we have outed ourselves, even though we are on different sides of the political divide, we may find our mugshots at the I-hate-lawyers Post Offices along with those on the "FBI's Most Wanted" list.

So, sleep well my Liberal friend. I am sure that we will live to see another day where we disagree, with professional courtesy of course.


Iam, a correction on my last post.
Subject: Iam, esq. - Thank you
You wrote: Hello, fellow attorney!
You make some really excellent points about the problems around closing Gitmo and of what to do with the prisoners. It is a really vexing problem (and one I believe, like the Iraq war, should never have been undertaken to begin with) (Denise says: which is one that I repecfully disagree with you)...
I guess we'll have to stay tuned....take care!

Iam, thank you and I am glad that I am not the only attorney that proudly recognizes my profession. I am not sure of your line of practice, but I am an O&G, Corporate, and Securities attorney. I do know that we get a bad rap, but, hey, our numbers are better than those of Congress!

I am not ready to disagree, in toto, with you about your assertion concerning that some at GITMO have already been cleared, but I do think that they should have a fair trial, even it is extra-judicial or military and may be held on US soil. The last thing that I want is to see them in Federal Court because, if they are not convicted, then they may be released into our neighborhoods. And, for all of those screaming in Hollywood and NYC, I wonder if they want the freed GITMO detainees released into their neighborhoods. Well, maybe, Sean Penn, et al, will house them.

You know that since we have outed ourselves, even though we are on different sides of the political divide, we may find our mugshots at the I-hate-lawyers Post Offices along with those on the "FBI's Most Wanted" list.

So, sleep well my Liberal friend. I am sure that we will live to see another day where we disagree, with professional courtesy of course.


ABOUT JAVIER BARDEM
YES! Terrorists are like the character Bardem played in "No Country for Old Men." They make about as much sense as he did also. Remember the psychotic way he talked? But in addition to the crazed terrorists, we have our own homicidal maniacs in our country's cities who are shooting indiscriminately at people, not caring who they hit. These gangbangers are carrying on a war of their own just like the psychotic terrorists are. Their war is about territory, power, and money just like the terrorists' war is.
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