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Tuesday, February 05, 2008
Bill Murchison :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Right and the "Wrongs" of McCain
by Bill Murchison
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A number of political conservatives have been beating up on John McCain as insufficiently conservative. It's fathomable, but just barely so.

We catch a few fellow Republican senators and some conservative activists saying things like, "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine" (Sen. Thad Cochran of Mississippi) and "McCain's record is as bad and liberal as Hillary's" (Ann Coulter, the columnist). Nor does it help that The New York Times is friendly to him. Or that Arnold Schwarzenegger endorsed him the other day. Or I don't know, for the moment, the McCain backlash on the right seems out of control.

The Weekly Standard's Fred Barnes instructs his fellow conservatives to "grow up."

I might myself put it this way: Who you got that's better? Meaning not only better but capable of winning the election?

There's Mike Huckabee, whose foreign-policy credentials are zilch and who, one suspects, for all the moral perspectives he expresses so well, hasn't thoroughly thought through the reasons that government regulation of the marketplace is generally a bad idea.

There is, or was, Fred Thompson, whose impact on the race was that of a Lincoln penny tossed into a reflecting pool.

There is, sort of, Ron Paul, whose sensible economic policies and craving for isolationism are out of sync.

There is, of course, Mitt Romney. The Romneyites are bitter at McCain. I'm not sure why. Presumably because they see their man as the true-blue Reaganite in the race. But that makes minimal sense. This is Mitt, who, in Massachusetts, made health-insurance acquisition compulsory without figuring out what to do with people who can't afford it. Nor, a few years ago, from the right's perspective, was Mitt up to snuff on gay rights and abortion. He has recanted on the social questions. Does this indemnify him against accusations of political perfidy?

The question resonates in another context: Mitt's lack of experience in national and international affairs. It's the same rap Mrs. Clinton is using on Barack Obama. Mitt might be OK in these departments, but to declare without equivocation that he's the better man to represent conservatives strikes me as bizarre.

Is McCain as conservative as true conservatives would like him? Of course not. He also might be a lot more reliable carrier of conservative water than they believe him to be, with his strong credentials on national defense -- the most important issue before us -- and a redoubtable mien that the likes of Ahmadinejad in Iran and perhaps even Putin in Russia might find impressive.

Whatever might be the "conservative" objection to this his anti-waterboarding stand, I don't see how anyone could think John McCain, USN (Ret.), ex-prisoner of war in Hanoi, is going to fold on the war against terror. The way a couple of Democrats I could name might fold if it suited their purposes.

A wise aphorism has it that the perfect is the enemy of the good. While conservatives tilt their noses expressively in the air at the idea of John McCain's representing a movement he votes with 85 percent of the time, Democrats offer the electorate two strong believers in the power of big government, two babes in the woods when it comes to foreign policy, two fast friends of every liberal interest from pro-choice to gay rights to let's-kill-the-Bush-tax-cuts.

I have just the feeling that, with conservatives, this moment is one in which pique cancels out reason -- a time for slamming doors and kicking the cat across the room -- just because here at the end of the Bush presidency, dreams of a conservative era flicker low.

I might not say to my fellow conservatives "grow up," as did Barnes. But I might counsel -- if anybody had the inclination to listen -- that the perfect president is harder to find than the perfect job or the perfect church. We do the best we can, and when we can't do any better, that's when we take the ballot and do things such as Ann Coulter instructs us not to do. Sorry, ma'am.

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Bill Murchison is a senior columns writer for The Dallas Morning News and author of There's More to Life Than Politics.
 
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It's not that he's not sufficiently
conservative...

HE'S NOT A CONSERVATIVE.

Period. End of Line.

The real conservatives were pushed out of the contest already. So we're left with this drek. A LOT of us so-called "Romney-ites" are not really supporters of Romney, but have been forced into a corner of supporting him in order to avoid being stuck with McCain.

Stop saying we wanted perfect. We didn't want perfect; we wanted CONSERVATIVE. Anti-illegal invader. Pro-torture terrorist barbarians. Pro-Tax-Cuts. Pro American Sovereignty.
All of which he does not support.

McCain blew it with us with McCain-Kennedy... and McCain-Feingold. He's been fighting against the interest of real conservatives for years, if not his entire political career... he's MADE a career of it!

Get this through your thick skulls, McCain supporters... your boy is NOT a conservative, he is merely a Republican. And when it comes down to it, we conservatives love our principles more than we love your party.

The worst thing President Reagan ever did was bring all of you milquetoast Democrats into the party.

Hey, Murchison
Stuff it.

Upyars is right
"two fast friends of every liberal interest from pro-choice to gay rights to let's-kill-the-Bush-tax-cuts..."


That wouldn't be "two", you forgot to include McCain on all those points.

Screw the GOP. Let Hillary finish us off. Bush did his best to kill the country. I'll be damned if I'll vote for the guy who will finish the job.

Welcome to your new (third world) country, The North American Union.

thanks to Billy the Big Kid
I now have a NEW Conservative Group I am proud to be a self-proclaimed Charter Member of:

"The Out of Control Conservative Backlash"

I'm ordering THAT shirt made up tomorrow!

Also one that says: "Warning: Adolescent Conservative Out of Control!"

I'm PROUD to be out of Control, Billy. If I were you I wouldn't get in my way!

Hey, Hey! How about a Baby Sinclair t-shirt(remember Dinosaurs?) whakin McCain with a skillet saying "Not the mama!"

big mick

remember The Sound of Music
Captain Von Trap to Max the parasite everybody's friend. "Oh yes you CAN help it! You MUST help it!"

Thanks Billy for such a succinct recap of how badly our Party has treated us. How much like the Dumbolcrap Commiequeers you have become, and how THAT is "the best we can do."

It ain't good enough, Billy, not by a long chalk!

the big mick

a final thought before bed att JDW
Billy has finally convinced me,and thanks for spinning it this way with your last line JDW,...

Billy has convinced me that ONLY Ronald Reagan and us peons REALLY believed in CONSERVATISM. All the politcos like Billy simply PRETENDED to be Conservatives so they could get between our legs and screw us. Just like a Bunch of Preppie Gilt Bird Cabin Fraternity Boys.

So it's now official with me, there is NO difference between The Conservative Free GOP and the Commiequeer Dumbolcraps.

Think I'll change my Registration right after the VA Primary next week.

I would suggest us True Believers do SOMETHING in concert to create a blip on the UNI-PARTY Radar Screen--maybe all picking one day to change our registrations would do that. Wonder if we could hit a million?

the big mick

and if you still needed proof
other than The MacChurian Candidate being uber commiequeer Kerry's Veep, the fact that ROBERTO
likes McQueeg should tell you SOMETHING, Billy the Kid!

Hey Roberto! I'm voting for Hillybama!

the big mick

McCain can be stopped!
Don't Coronate McCain just yet.

From here on there is only one open primary and that is TX and it is an open primary/caucus. There are 988 delegates to go with 19 closed primaries and 6 caucuses.

Further, only MS and LA are Southern which is bad news for Huck. Romney is strong in TX due to immigration.

The McCain opposition has some time to really open up on him now.

Romney would be dumber than a fence post to pull out now. At the very worst he can run this into a brokered convention.

Benedict Arnold McCain
I can't help but think Mr. Murchison would be telling us to grow up if it was Hillary Clinton that been selected as the GOP candidate. Apparently ideology doesn't matter, only getting a Republican, ANY Republican elected. Pathetic.

McCain really cares
About his constituents concerns. Just watch this video to see for yourself.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1073039/dont_ask_mccain/

If that doesn't make you sick then go ahead and vote for this piece of Scheist.

You'll deserve what you get.


It will be a cold day...
Before I vote for that back stabbing liar McCain or Huck. Neither have any honor or integrity.

Quoting Fred Barns will get you
nothing from real conservatives. He is a liberal Bush backing neocon and of course he just loves McLame. Also, if you don't know why the Romney people don't like Huck you are living in another universe. You aso trotted out this 85% number. Where did that come from? Even that bogus 82% that everyone trots out from the ACU is not really accurate. The fact is that McLame voted against conservatives on all major issues except the war so I would giver him about a 10% rating.

Based on the election results it looks like he is going to be the nominee for the Republicans. That eans that unless there is some ballot initiative that I need to vote down (most of these around here are thinly disguised tax increases) I will be sitting out the election.

Billy-boy "Lurch"ison
you so profoundly stated:
"A wise aphorism has it that the perfect is the enemy of the good. While conservatives tilt their noses expressively in the air at the idea of John McCain's representing a movement he votes with 85 percent of the time, Democrats offer the electorate two strong believers in the power of big government, two babes in the woods when it comes to foreign policy, two fast friends of every liberal interest from pro-choice to gay rights to let's-kill-the-Bush-tax-cuts."

If the remaining 15% gets our nation over-run with illegals and criminals from other countries, blocks qualified judges from consideration to "moderate" to the leftist, further shuts down our rights to speech (or starts a fresh assault on other proteced rights), or kills the economy for a still unproven "junk science" crippler (that would be GW) then there is no way that it is "covered" by your claim of 85% right.

Further don't trot out the "save the tax cut meme...McLame was one of only two senators with the (R) after their name to vote against them twice on class warfare retoric.

The 1st amendment
This is the man who said that if he has to choose between the 1st amendment and "clean" government (an oxymoron if ever there was one - "Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! It is a dangerous servant and a terrible master." - George Washington). He has no commitment whatsoever to liberty, nor any apparent understanding of it. Liberty used to be the major premise on which this nation stood. How far we have strayed from that principle! How tragic for our descendants.

McCain is a 60 Percent Senator
An article about McCain that has 'rights and wrongs' in the title but doesn't deal with any of McCain's myriad wrongs. And I believe I read somewhere that in recent years McCain's conservative voting record is down to 60 percent.
So it is obvious that the man is not a solid conservative. Far from it. We true conservative aren't going to let up on McCain. We aren't going to let this joke of a Republican get away with telling lie after lie. We will keep up the pressure and hopefully we'll have something to show for it. The bottom line is this: It's not our fault that there are so many clueless morons in the Republican party.

Murchison Column on McCain
So . . according to this "author" it was alright
for McCain to threaten to switch parties in 2001 so he could flip the Senate.

It was alright for McCain to consider running as Kerry's VP in 2004.

It was alright for McCain and Kerry to abandon any hope of recovering any more MIAs from Vietnam so we could sign a trade agreement with North Vietnam. This over the strong objections of the families and friends of those still missing, including myself!

John McCain is a disgrace . . yes, a disgrace, and his being a POW does not qualify him as an American hero. I know lots of former POWs from WWII, Korea and Vietnam, and they don't consider themselves as such.

My advice for Mr Murchison is do a google search of "John McCain US Navy Pilot.! Bet you didn't know that he was an "ace", did you Bill? (FIVE planes destroyed . . unfortunately, they were all AMERICAN planes!)


Hal (San Antonio)
SMSgt USAF (Retired)

I admit that Bob Dole
wasn't a terrific choice when he ran, but I admire and respect him nonetheless. I've got to say that I was stunned at McCain's response to what Romney said about Dole's letter to Limbaugh. Did you see the man's face when he hammered Romney for dissing Dole's military record? When did that happen?

I personally think John has a dangerous mental stability problem, and I'm not kidding.

(As a caveat, I would too, if I had had to undergo what he did, but that doesn't lessen my concern.)

McCain or Huck
The nomination of either one of these rinos will damage the Gop beyond repair.The fact that conservatives and many good republicans have already voted for them out of desparation to beat Hillary is proof. We can pound this out on the web until our fingers cramp but until it's in the face of John Q. Public in the evening paper or on the tubee they will never hear us. As great as the wide web is this is a fight that must be taken to the streets and the old fashion way. By real voices and faces telling the body of the American people what they should know before casting that all important ballot.

McCain or Huck
The nomination of either one of these rinos will damage the Gop beyond repair.The fact that conservatives and many good republicans have already voted for them out of desparation to beat Hillary is proof. We can pound this out on the web until our fingers cramp but until it's in the face of John Q. Public in the evening paper or on the tubee they will never hear us. As great as the wide web is this is a fight that must be taken to the streets and the old fashion way. By real voices and faces telling the body of the American people what they should know before casting that all important ballot.

Methinks Thou Protesteth Too Much
My, how the establishment media have redrawn McCain as a conservative!...I pity them all, that they can be so afraid of Hillary that they can cash in their critical thinking for a fresh Washington martini...Lie to yourselves if you need to, but leave me with my marbles intact!...Republicans and not just conservatives should embrace Hillary, since she will only have two years to Europeanize the country before she loses Congress and gridlock sets in...but then, we need not fear McCain doing worse damage, as the point is moot...Conservatives won't vote for McCain, not in the numbers needed to outdo the Democrats, because McCain is just another dem, but with a temperament entirely unsuited to the job he want...Stop yelling at me to "grow up" and ask yourselves if you really wish to lose the core of the Republican Party...The Democrats do, of course, but "et tu, Brute?"

Robert
Is that what passes for intelligent discourse on your planet? Lowlife.

Maggie, I disagree- sort of
It will not destroy the GOP. just badly injure it. To the point it will take another Jimmy Carter calibre presidency to bring it back. Wait a minute- if our choices are McCain, Clinton and Obama, that issue has already taken care of itself!
If you want to know what a McCain presidency will be like, look at what happened in W Virginia. No different than the Gang of 14, McCain-Feingold, McCain- Kennedy; backroom deals that thwart the will of the people.

Never McCain
It'll be a cold day in hell when I vote for McCain. Huckabee is low life back stabber.

I will vote my conscience
Murch, good for you if you think it's better to vote to win rather than vote your principles. I'd don't think I've ever had a candidate that I voted for where I didn't disagree with him somewhere. McCain (and Huckabee, for that matter) are so far from my principle values, however, I just can't reconcile with myself enough to vote for either of them - if they're running mates I can not vote for the duo both at the same time!

I feel like I'm left without a party so I've got to search for someplace to go. John "I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh" McCain has made it clear he doesn't care about consevarives and thinks he doesn't need them. We'll see.

I would rather vote for a third party, or even leave blank the vote for president rather than vote for someone who has continually stuck his thumb in my eye. I'll just sleep better at night.

Jerebauab
You don't really listen to talk radio, do you?
To say that talk radio has carried Bush's water proves that. Most of the prominent talk radio hosts have agreed with Bush on the war on terror and little else. They have been outspoken against his liberal domestic agenda. They have supported him simply because...it can always get worse!

Grow a brain, Bill
"A number of political conservatives have been beating up on John McCain as insufficiently conservative. It's fathomable, but just barely so."

Grow a brain & a pair of eyes, & it will become crystal clear.

" - the McCain backlash on the right seems out of control.
Is McCain as conservative as true conservatives would like him? Of course not."

In fact, he's not conservative at all in any real sense. Conservatives do not torpedo the 1st Amendment, dismiss the 2nd, open the borders & tolerate illegals, allow good judges to be blocked by leftist ideologues, or engage in class-envy rhetoric to rationalize blocking tax cuts. He's bogus, a shill being manipulated by our adversaries to freeze out conservatism & conservatives.

" He also might be a lot more reliable carrier of conservative water than they believe him to be, with his strong credentials on national defense -- the most important issue before us..."

I don't buy this "national defense" argument. He's a Senator with past experience as basically a minor officer-pilot. Furthermore, his open-borders stance belies any theory he's a national defense antiterrorism maven.

Robert
Can you put a complete sentence together? I've tried to read several of your posts and for the life of me cannot understand what in the heck you are ever trying to say? Are you trying to translate from another language into English or something and just having trouble putting it together? I have to assume it's just ignorance and not stupidity.

Yes yes....
"True" conservatives only torpedo the establishment clause....like Mike Huckabee...


If McCain Gets the Nomination...
He is going to need LOTS of cash.

I hope I get a 100 "begging letters" from him, so I can tell him to "FORGET IT" 100 times.

I hope I get a 100 phone calls to help with his campaign (as I have volunteered for the GOP since 1980, so I know I am "on the list") so I can tell him "FORGET IT" 100 times.

I haven't decided who will get my vote among VA Republicans to replace RINO John Warner who we have finally gotten rid of. But if the ultimate Senate nominee is "McCain-like", he ALSO can kiss my vote goodbye.

News flash for McCain...THERE ARE MILLIONS OF US THAT FEEL THE SAME WAY!!!

While I am not pissed enough to actually vote for a Democrat (I am not into hurling as a rule), I will definitely sit out the Presidential race and only vote for the Congressional races...maybe.

There have been a few post concerned about fracturing the party.

Instead of being worried about the fracture in the party, maybe we should be REJOICING about it!

Like Rush (and Reagan said), you may win one or two elections by choosing "electabilty" for principle, but this CONSERVATIVE wans the GOP to get back to the conservative message...protect us, lower taxes, lower spending, and the ability to conduct commerce without undue regulation.

I am a CONSERVATIVE FIRST and a Republican second.

If the GOP wants to be a "Democrat Lite" party, then we are doomed to being in the minority again or the next 20 years.

But if the GOP truly wants to be the party for Conservatives, then they better start acting like it.

I am reading Newt's book REAL CHANGE. THIS is what the GOP SHOULD stand for. Get a copy.

This is what the GOP SHOULD look like, but sadly…

We're asked to reward bad behavior
"A wise aphorism has it that the perfect is the enemy of the good."

Another wise aphorism says that when you reward bad behavior you get much more of it. If we keep rewarding the GOP apparachiks & treacherous "moderates" (read that crossover Demmies sabatoging the primaries) for serving up RINOs & cryptodemmies, we'll never get anything else. Either we show our strength & kick this blatant attempt at manipulation to the curb, or be rendered politically impotent forever.

We're not looking for "perfect," heck, barely adequate (i.e. GWB, Romney) seems too much to hope for. Huckabee is basically another shill put in to draw off the religious GOP'ers & render them irrelevant.

The one thing the established Left would like above all else is to have a Republican, voted in & thus given a mandate by noseholding conservatives, to enact the entire leftie agenda from citizen disarmament to the climate change dogma, in the name of "bipartisanship."

As to the war in the Mideast, I can see Mack as the next Lyndon Johnson giving us the new Vietnam for real. Neither Hil nor Barak want those albatrosses around their necks, the Demmies are positioning themselves to save us from McCain in 2012, IMO.

Remember how Waco Willie backed down before the 1994 Congress when it grew some backbone & pushed welfare reformm & signalled Kyoto was DOA? Would a new GOP Congress balk a President McCain when it couldn't even grow a pair & block 'McCain-Feingold?'

As poor a hope as it is, if Hillary is elected we might get a Republican Congress again in 2010 that would block her schemes.

Foreign Policy Experience
"There's Mike Huckabee, whose foreign-policy credentials are zilch.."

George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan were all governors with NO foreign policy experience. That wasn't a deterrent then, and neither should it be now.

As for our future, I am mourning already. With the prospect of of illegal aliens voting for Democrats, the Republican party is in its death throws; and a one party system is just around the country.

Governmental tyranny and civil anarchy shall surely follow and I will exercise one of my few remaining rights: The Second Amendment.

John McCain
McCain is no a conservative. His McCain Feingold Campaign Finance Reform, McCain Kennedy Amnesty, vote against tax cut but not spending cut, band of 14, endosement by NY Times Arnold Schwarsneger and other liberals, vilification of evangelical over the past decade, the list goes on.

Suggestion to MainConservative
Stop feeding the troll.

It sounds like...
...McCain supporters just cannot accept the fact that McCain cannot win the White House.

John McCain
First we had McCain-Feingold to clobber the First Amendment's right to free speech. Now we have McCain-Lieberman being proposed in the Senate to clobber our economy further by worshiping Al Gore's Church of Anticarbon. We can excuse Lieberman, who is an independent in name only, but actually a life-long Democrat.

However, only an imbicile, or an illiterate, or someone who failed Economics 101 would needlessly or prematurely try to stick us with higher energy costs when we are heading into recession. I say needlessly because, if global warming is really underway, the case for indicting CO2 instead of the cyclic variability of solar radiation has not yet been adjudicated.

OK, McCain probably is not an imbecile or illiterate. So that leaves the other possibility. Now, can we really afford to have someone who apparently failed Econ 101 running our country? Maybe only if he has a VP who has some buisness sense and a proven grasp of Econ 101. But would Mitt Romney settle for No. 2? He's still fairly young, and thi could be a stepping stone to the Presidency because McCain isn't so young anymore.

WRONG GUY
YOU ARE SO WRONG ABOUT MCCAIN. AND I FOR ONE WILL NEVER VOTE FOR HIM. ALL HE THINKS ABOUT IS HIS SELF AND THINKS NO ONE ELSE WAS EVER A PRISONER OF WAR.MCCAIN THINKS HE IS RIGHT AND NO ONE ELSE IS.WE ARE IN TROUBLE WITH THIS, THIS MAN IF HE BECOMES THE PRESIDENT.



THANK YOU
PAT FIELDS

The issue(s) with McCain
The issues we conservatives have with McCain are of his own making. They have NOTHING to do with those running against him. We had those issues BEFORE anyone ran against him.

And if the writer of this article thinks any of us are going to change our thinking about McCain, November will show how much we change. Can you say democrat president? I'll see any democrat in office before I'll see McCain there and it'll be a cold day in hell before I vote for McCain EVER.

Preaching To The Choir
All of the Townhall readers realize that McCain is a backstabbing, lying, mentally unstable punk, yet we keep writing the same comments over and over.

The emphasis is on who's the most conservative.

I don't care who's most conservative.
I don't care who's most Republican.
I do care who's best for America.
It is not McCain.

Talk show hosts keep pounding on "most conservative" yet many of the middle ground and independent VOTERS (incorrecty)perceive "conservatives" as stodgy, fat, old white people and therefor don't care about "conservative issues".

Example: Oklahoma has the most strict illegal immigrant laws in the nation, yet they voted for McCain. Do you think they would have voted for him if they realized that the McCain-Kennedy Amnesty Bill called for over $2 trillion in taxpayer aid to illegals; that 20 million illegals stay here and, if they choose, can buy U.S. Citizenship for $40 per month. The Bill was defeated but, if elected, McCain will sign it when it is re-introduced.

Everyone, especially talk show hosts, needs to stop preaching "conservative" and start educating voters on the damage McCain will cause before it's too late.


OK, then
I guess Robert answered my question in the affirmative.

I agree there is no perfect candidate.
I expect there never will be. But just voting for someone you think will win is stupid.

I believe in the US Constitution. McCain does not.

I believe in small, limited federal government. McCain does not.

I believe in legal immigration and border security. McCain does not.

I believe in lower taxes. McCain does not.

I no not believe in constituional rights for terrorists. McCain does.

Do I need to go on?

If he is the eventual nominee, I will not vote for him. Or any other open borders, big government socialist.



To OrlandoBill
Advice taken on Robert. I am fairly new here and assumedpeople could express there views openly, but I just couldn't figure out what Robert's views were. I won't rattle his cage again.

I really feel abandoned today. I just read Hewitt's blog and he is more than gracious in admitting now that it would take a miracle now to stop McCain and he was urging conservatives to unite behind the GOP candidate. Even after that these moderates/liberals who have taken over the GOP are vicious in their attacks on him and conservatives. This I'm sure, was extremely hard for Hugh to do and shows a lot of class in my opinion, but these conservative haters just want to twist the knife while it is in.

I would like to be able to vote for the GOP candidate but I just don't think I can vote for McCain and/or Huckabee. They don't seem to want or need me either so I'll try to find another home somewhere.


Anybody but McAmnesty
I'm participating in the caucus Saturday and that's my action plan -- anybody but McAmnesty. That's also going to be my plan come November.

I don't know if I can stand to vote to put a Democrat in the White House, but I know I can't live with myself if I vote for McAmnesty. I may have to vote third party or just stay home. As it is, I'm looking for a bus to throw myself under if he becomes the nominee.

Remember the Maine
Sorry, I'm an "Out of Control Conservative" and I WILL have my backlash! Billy the Big Kid, and Fred & Barney, and now Hewey can kisz my O2C2 asz.
I have no candidate because in the Conservative Free GOP I have no PARTY! Roberto says he "wants his party back"--you know the one indistinquishable from the commiequeer dumbolcraps. The MacChurian Candidate is an ECELLENT nominee for THAT Party.

But why should I vote for either of the two candidates if BOTH have been nominated by the commiequeer Dumbolcraps?

You're welcome to your Conservative Free GOP, Robert, if it means that much to you. Liberty Constitutionalism and their expression in the principles of Reagan Conservatism is what I value. The Principles of the Big Mick Pledge I've often posted elsewhere

What you got here is a choice between the surer if slightly slower death of The MacChurian Socialism Lite, and Hillybama's Socialism Straight. I am going to vote the latter in the hope America chokes on it and pukes it back up in American Revolution Part 3.

To Roberto and the Gilt Bird Cabin (anybody ever succeed in parsing that out?) CINO/RINO GOPpers----Nah Nah, NO McCain-ah, hey hey hey goodbye (repeat)

the big mick

Jeffy
Hey why throw YOURSELF under the bus--throw the Gilt Bird Cabin CINO/RINO GOPper Socialist Lites under the bus instead.
What all us "Out of Control" (you notice how it DISTURBS Freddy and Billy when WE are not CONTROLLED--note the word--CONTROLLED) Conservatives need to do is figure out a way to REALLY pisz em off. Pick a day to all re-register as independents. A collapse the phone lines day, or boycott outside the convention, or have our own convention, or some really nasty poison pill. We could try writing in Ronald Reagan, but most write in ballots will probably be considered marred and discarded. Some lawyer type and poll worker insider should figure out a way for us to screw with the data in all 50 states so EVERYBODY knows just how many of us ARE OUt of Control and how Out of Control we are!

the big mick

stop with the war hero crap

John McCain was a POW. Okay, I get it. God bless him for his service to this country. But that does not give him a "get out of jail free card" for the rest of his life.

John McCain throws up his POW story way, way too much for my liking. In a sense, he dishonors those of his fellow veterans who also were POWs. He wears his POW status on his sleeve. That bothers me. a lot. (And by the way, I am a life-time member of VFW. I am well aware of way my fellow veterans had to go through.)

Besides, McCain was a pilot. That means he knows nothing about geopolitical-military strategy.

Seems to me we had recently another presidential candidate who kept telling us, at every opportunity no less, that "he served in Vietnam".
Sorry, but I don't see a whole lot of difference in that regard between Kerry and McCain.

Maybe that's why in 2004 Kerry and McCain were talking about being running mates.

Funny, is that what McCain is using to claim he is a conservative???

off to spread the rebellion
New idea. Didn't Princess Leah tell the Grand Muff Tarkin something like "The harder you squeeze, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers!"

It is now official! I hereby Declare that The Out of Control Conservatives (O2C2) are part of the REBEL ALLIANCE! To your ships!!

the big mick

Out of Control day
I like it mic!

McCain not the man
I don't care how conservative or liberal McCain is or isn't. What's really important is that he is a foul-mouthed, arrogant thug with a Napoleonic complex--and who wants someone like this in the White House. Well, maybe the idiot evangelical Christians because he is pro-life. Yeah, as if the country is going to sink or swim on this side issue.

You, Mr. Murchison
Mr. Murchison, I find your right/left analysis of McCain to be completely off target.

The things that John McCain has inflicted on our country, such as McCain-Feingold (the total REJECTION of the Bill of Rights), McCain-Kennedy (the TOTAL REJECTION of national sovereignty) make the question not whether he is or even was a conservative anymore, but whether or not John McCain is still an American.

He seems (and Dubya included) to be an American apostate.

Dr. North
The more you think about it, these social issues (abortion, gay rights, stem cells, teaching the Bible as "literature" in the public school system) that the evangelicals push are ALL "side show".

Unfortunately, this is what the "conservative" movement has now been reduced to: a holy-roller "Big Tent" revival where evangelicals wish to cast out the collective "demons" in the american Body Politic. Cast out the demons & wait for the "Rapture".

What would republicans of 50 years ago think of this sad state of affairs?

McCain is selling himself
as a war hero. Let's look at what he did:
He was supposed to take off in his plane, carry out his mission, and take his plane back to his bome base.
He took off in his plane and crashed it, denying the US the use of the plane. He was given the chance to return to his base by the VC, thus being able to fly more missions that could help free POW's. Instead of doing that, he chose to sit in Hanoi and deny the US his training as a pilot.
Now he's helping the democ-rats against our military people.
Some war hero!!!

For eight years,
I had a bumper sticker saying, "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Clinton".
I hope I won't have to get one saying, Don't blame me, I didnt vote for, Hellery, Hussein, McLame".

I agree with Bill..
.. on one point, there really wasn't much to choose from in this year's group.

McCain's "conservatism"
You forgot a few of the real conservative's concerns about John McCain: 1) He led the senate "gang of fourteen" to thwart confirmation of Bush's conservative, originalist appointments to the federal bench! One of the major legacies any president leaves is his appointments to the federal bench. We are still suffering from Jimmy Carter's appointments to the Ninth Circuit, nearly three decades later! Whatever you think of President Bush, his judicial appointments have been excellent - he has given us two conservative, originalist justices on the Supreme Court. And McCain has said that he doesn't know if he would appoint an Alito, because "he wears his conservatism on his sleeve." 2) McCain/Kennedy amnesty/anti-U.S. Sovereignty bill. Are we a sovereign nation or are we not? We have a right to control our borders and our government is failing us in not doing so. McCain is for more of the same. Who benefits? The Democratic party, which is anti-voter ID, pro-voter fraud: clearly they want the illegals to be able to vote. A Democratic congressional candidate in the 2006 election in San Diego County actually said, in response to a question from an "undocumented" immigrant in the crowd "You don't need papers to vote!" When the comment came out (it had been recorded by person in the audience) the Democrats scorned the person who had done the recording.

these commentators can't think!
these commentators are pretty dim as well or they think that conservatives are just plain dumb.

the contest is not over whether we a get the letter "D" or "R" in office.
it is about competence.
it is about leadership.
it is about integrity.
it is about positions and government philosophy.

mccain is not very smart (5th from the bottom in his class).
mccain constantly teams with those outside his party.
mccain works to undermine the leadership in his party (speaks to his character and integrity)
mccain's position are those of a liberal democrat.

if mccain is nominated against let's say obama. it will be a brilliant and dynamic minority against a low wattage cranky old man.

it's going to be pathetic

**** WARNING ********
DEMOCRAT LANDSLIDE AHEAD
************************

Again the intentionally misrepresenting!
Golly I'm tired of reading that Ron Paul = isolationist. He's never said that. He's never espoused such a thing. What's worse, you commentators know it, but just continue to misrepresent his position for your own ends.
I'll say it again, for those of you in the back of the class and can't hear. Ron Paul's foreign policy prescription is one of non-intervention in the political affairs of other countries!
Now, stop being so cowardly, and give the man his due. The repubs are headed for another WH defeat if they nominate any one other than the good doctor. Neither of the "leading" candidates are going to be more than a bump in the road for either hillary or obama.
As a very long-time registered republican, I can guarantee that I will not vote for a RINO like McCain.

jdw writes....
"The worst thing President Reagan ever did was bring all of you milquetoast Democrats into the party."

Myopic vision induced by slavish insistence on ideological purity at all costs was something Reagan never succumbed to, and the Republican party flourished for it.
Unfortunately, so many contemporary Republicans like jdw have forgotten this.

McCain's military record
McCain received more than 100 demerits each year at the Naval Academy for things like being late, not in full proper uniform, unshined shoes, etc. He graduated 894th out of 899 in his class.

McCain was a relatively bad pilot. In his career as an aviator he wrecked at least three planes. Some sources say he wrecked as many as five planes (making him an enemy ace). In another instance he escaped unharmed with his plane undamaged after hitting power lines in Spain because he was flying too low.

He was shot down near Hanoi on something like his 21st mission in Vietnam. He spent 5-1/2 years as a POW. Many people insist and/or assume this makes him a war hero, but Gen. George Patton once said, "No [expletive] ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb [expletive] die for his country." In McCain's case Patton might say that no one ever won a war by getting his multi-million dollar plane shot out of the sky.

After returning to the states he recuperated from his war injuries enough to pass a flight physical and had a successful stint commanding the VA-174 Hellrazors in Jacksonville Florida, a Navy training squadron. It was during this time that his first marriage fell apart due to McCain's philandering.

McCain was discharged in 1981 and went into politics.

Stop ranting and Start thinking
I have been a registered Republican going back to 1976. I voted for Reagan in the Republican primary against moderate President Ford.

Back then Conservatives knew we were in the minority in not just the US but in the Republican party as well. Then along came a Great Communicator who knew how to present the Conservative message with a gentile and caring voice.

Conservatives have always been in the minority and always will be. It always been easier to be a go along, get along moderate or liberal in my lifetime.

Since the only Great Communicator on the Republican side who knew how to present the Conservative message with a gentile and caring voice (Huckabee) DID NOT WIN, we are probably going to be stuck with McCain.

Conservatives are adults who accept reality.

Can we leverage our votes to REQUIRE McCain to pledge to support our TOP 3 or 5 issues?

I know if he signs the NumbersUSA NO Amnesty and the No Tax Increase pledges, I will VOTE FOR him against the Marxists Hillary and Obama.


nonsense johnf
"Myopic vision induced by slavish insistence on ideological purity at all costs was something Reagan never succumbed to, and the Republican party flourished for it."

You promote the mythic propoganda that we conservatives are requiring idealogical purity.

Nonsense.

The Republican party was supposedly the party of conservatives. Insisting that the politicians running under the Republican banner be conservatives is not requiring idealogical purity, but requiring them to be what the party is supposed to be.

If one forms a hobbyist club, where members bring their radio controlled cars on Sundays and race them around a track, one should expect the members to be interested in R/C cars.

If a leader of the club manages to increase membership by including members of skateboarders club, because those skateboarders agreed that Sundays should be for R/C cars but Thursday should be for skateboarding, that's changing the nature of the club, and it is similar to what President Reagan did.

If *then* the skateboarders start skateboarding on Sunday, and insist on a leader who prefers skateboarding (but claims to be a real R/C hobbyist), if they associate with members of the skateboarders club, and start marginalizing the R/C hobbyists, that's like what Bush, McCain and the 'compassionate conservatives' have done.

If the R/C hobbyists object to a skateboarder for a leader, and refuse to support him, they are not requiring "idealogical purity" in their leader, they are requiring a leader that supports their interests and the original intent of the club.

Yes, the Republican party flourished... but conservatism didn't. because the Republican party was so long associated with conservatism, we forgot that the former was never anywhere nearly as important as the latter.

As McCain
is a pandering liar, I don't see how signing a piece of paper is going to get him to act in accordance with any promises he makes. Once he's elected, it'll be too late to remind him of his pledges.

Perhaps conservatives have always been in the minority. Consensus is never a substitute for being right. All it proves, if conservatives are a minority, is that the majority of Americans are either stupid or corrupt or both.

What is with all these Bandwagon
articles on TH today?

McCain is NOT ELECTABLE and is certainly NO CONSERVATIVE.

He gets the nod and we will...get it? WILL have a Democrat in office.

Even if by some minor miracle he is elected we WILL have a Democrat in office.

Get real.

Why not Lieberman?
For conservatives to support McCain sends a message to the Republican Party that it can ignore conservatives because they will always have to vote for the lesser of evils. We did that last election when we supported Bush. It looks like every presidential election for the forseeable future is going to be a "battle for the future of civilization" where the issues are too important to stand on principle. Sometime we have to say, "STOP". McCain has called conservatives racist and xenophobic. He despises us and is contemptuous of us. Now he is running around with Joe Lieberman, who will probably be his running mate. The Republican party has so far abandoned conservative principles that we need a third party. Voting for McCain is a vote for appeasement.

thebigmick
Count me in as a member of:
"The Out of Control Conservative Backlash"

NO....
Romney supports don't like McCain because we don't want our tax dollars going to pro-Mexico causes.

We will NOT be voting for McCain. He is no republican, no conservative. We'd rather have another Jimmy Carter in the office for 4 years than a RINO who will de-face the party.

Look, the gangs all here.
Ron writes: Wednesday, February, 06, 2008 12:50 PM
For eight years,
I had a bumper sticker saying, "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Clinton".
I hope I won't have to get one saying, Don't blame me, I didnt vote for, Hellery, Hussein, McLame".

Better put your order in-Ron ROTFLMAO

Gimme a Break!
"with his strong credentials on national defense -- the most important issue before us"

Doesn't national defense involve securing our borders? McCain is no different than the Democrats...it's silly and DANGEROUS to suggest otherwise.

Hello third party...

McCain wants to talk about issues?
You're on, old man!

Let's talk about how you sponsored a bill that revokes the First Amendment around election time?

Let's talk about how you sponsored a bill that would give criminals from third world nations rights that US citizens don't even have?

Let's talk about how you headed a coalition to block construtionist judicial nominees?

Let's talk about how you not once, but TWICE voted in favor of higher taxes?

Let's talk about how you would rather watch millions of American children be tortured to death that to take away Osama bin Laden's satellite TV and Koran?

The FACT of the matter is that on pretty much EVERY important issue, there is virtually NO difference between McCain and Clinton.

You say he's better on Iraq? The problem there is that whoever the president is, they will be forced into basically McCain's policy on Iraq, thus no difference there.

Abortion? McCain has already blocked conservative nominees to SCOTUS, what evidence is there he won't nominate another Souter? None.

McCain, for all practical intents and purposes, is equal to Clinton. The only difference is a McCain disaster of a presidency will mean the collapse of the only opposition of the disaster that is the Democratic Party.

Few Conservatives
Has always been the case.
It takes some knowledge to be one.

------------
Bill Murchison writes:
There's Mike Huckabee, whose foreign-policy credentials are zilch and who, one suspects, for all the moral perspectives he expresses so well, hasn't thoroughly thought through the reasons that government regulation of the marketplace is generally a bad idea.
---------
ts:
Compare Huckabee to GW Bush.
What "credentials" did GW own in 2000?
What credentials does Romney own?
Or McCain?
Meaningless for any of the candidates as none have any.
----------

Bill Murchison
There is, or was, Fred Thompson, whose impact on the race was that of a Lincoln penny tossed into a reflecting pool.
-------
ts:
Proving Americans do not want anyone in office who still has some love for America First.
(and I am not sure [completely] about him)
------
Bill Murchison
There is, sort of, Ron Paul, whose sensible economic policies and craving for isolationism are out of sync.
-----
ts:
Nonsense
Paul believes in Constitutional Government.
Which required American Government to mind its own business.

For a nation filled with busy bodies it is today, that is anathema.

For the nation filled with egotistical blowhards, thats heresy.

For a nation of money loving power mongers, that is despicable.

For a nation that has forgotten the values that made America, its "isolationism"


Hey, Murchison...
It's the amnesty, you moron.

RE: Ron Paul
"Nonsense
Paul believes in Constitutional Government.
Which required American Government to mind its own business."

Says who? The powers of the Commander In Chief are left undefined in the Constution, and for good reason. How could the authors of the Constitution ever predict what the threats to our United States would be in the future? The answer is that they realized that they could not predict such.

This is why they left the powers of the Commander In Chief undefined. They wanted POTUS to be able to use the military whenever there was a threat perceived, and the nature of the threats that he is allowed to use said military ought not be constricted by constitutional guidelines.

While one can argue whether or not XYZ conflict is one that the US should have avoided, what cannot be said is that involvement in XYZ conflict is "unconstitutional".

Ron Paul is a Libertarian kook who lacks the basic understanding that there are people out there who want to destroy this country simply because we have what they want. He's willing to let them build up aggressively against us, only to react to such a buildup only after thousands, if not millions, of Americans have been exterminated.

Once upon a time, I, too, used to be a Libertarian. Then I graduated the 9th grade.

Brett, Mc has said he will enforce
the border and he will make Bush taxes permanent. If there is a person who can get this done with a democrat congress - he can. Why? They owe him and respect him as a colligue who has voted as an american first and republican second. He has the experience and opportunity to bring this country back to a United States of America without the "hopeless socialism of change" that is being offered by the democrats. Mc's immigration bill is not coming up for a vote again, and like Bush, we will make sure there won't be amnesty. Remember Bush was ready to sign the bill until - we the people - from all sides of the aisle politically and socio-economically made it known that boarder enforcement and amnesty were not an option. The congress heard us and the bill was defeated. McCain also presents a clear choice for voters in November strong pro-life, defense and experience that is unmatched on military service/strategy and a democrat who will be inexperienced in military service/strategy, weak on life issues, weak on defense and weak on taxes. Mc wins because americans realize they are americans FIRST and democrats or republicans SECOND (at least most americans) and they want change from status quo that will come with the experience and respect globally needed to continue leading the world with dignity, honor and respect. MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, MC WILL WIN IN NOVEMBER because he is the most qualified candidate to be commander in chief and has depth in his message not just charm. Hey, if charm was the deciding factor Kerry who won most debates in 2004 and Gore who won most debates in 2000 would have defeated Bush handily - but charm can only go so far then substance takes over and the seriousness of electing a commander in chief becomes about who is qualified the most and whose experience give us assurance that there will not be any training on the job needed. MC WINS!

How about the Father of the Nation?
beowulfe writes: 2:42 PM
RE: Ron Paul
"Nonsense
Paul believes in Constitutional Government.
Which required American Government to mind its own business."

Says who?
---------
It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.
George Washington




As President Bush addressed the United Nations last week, I could not help thinking we have become incredibly mired in the "entangling alliances" another President George – George Washington – warned against. Sadly, many in Washington and the media seem to consider UN approval of our war plans far more important than a congressional debate on the matter.

America has an absolute sovereign right to defend itself. We do not need permission from the UN or anybody else to use military force. What is needed, however, is a congressional declaration of war. Our Constitution does not permit any President to initiate war simply because the UN gives him permission. When we seek permission, or even mere approval, from the United Nations, we give credibility to the terrible notion that American national security is a matter of international consensus. America alone should decide whether to send its sons and daughters to war.


September 17, 2001
Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

More:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul54.html

RE: Sarah
"Mc has said he will enforce the border"

He also said on Meet the Press about a week ago that if his bill makes it through congress to his desk to sign, he'd sign it. In other words, he is either lying on Meet the Press or he's lying when he says he'll enforce the border.

"and he will make Bush taxes permanent"

He voted against them not once, but twice. McCain isn't a moron. He knows full well that no one in history has been elected president after claiming that he'd raise taxes.

If elected, I'll bet ANYONE HERE that a bill will be submitted to congress to make them permanent, and McCain will do what he always does: have secret meetings with Democrats and tell them that they should vote against it so they can get their way without McCain looking like a liar. They'll vote against it, and McCain will have a big press conference where he says "Well, I tried. Sorry conservatives, taxes are going up! Now let's get onto more important things...like banning talk radio and giving child molestors from third world nations rights American citizens don't have!"

"If there is a person who can get this done with a democrat congress - he can. Why? They owe him and respect him as a colligue who has voted as an american first and republican second."

You ARE aware that these are Democrats we're talking about, right? Name just one time in history when Democrats showed loyalty to "allies" in the opposite party.

"McCain also presents a clear choice for voters in November strong pro-life"

After all, anyone willing to block judges who are also pro-life certainly will be all for pro-life judges in the future..../rollseyes

"Hey, if charm was the deciding factor Kerry who won most debates in 2004 and Gore who won most debates in 2000 would have defeated Bush handily"

Um, I think you're on the wrong forum. DailyKOS.com is over there ==>

Sorry, but Paul is 100% wrong.
"America has an absolute sovereign right to defend itself. We do not need permission from the UN or anybody else to use military force. What is needed, however, is a congressional declaration of war. Our Constitution does not permit any President to initiate war simply because the UN gives him permission."

Wrong, "Doctor" Paul.

Trivia question: How many times have the US congress declared war? The answer is 5: War of 1812, Mexican-American War, Spanish-American War, World War I, and World War II. That is it.

SCOTUS has ruled on at least 2 occasions that while congress is the body that declares war, it is POTUS, and ONLY POTUS that has the power to WAGE war.

In fact, unknown to the likes of Ron Paul (and you, apparently), a congressional Declaration of War does NOT GRANT ANY new powers to POTUS, but actually TAKES POWER AWAY from POTUS (for example, absent a declaration of war, POTUS may decide on his own what to do with assets our military captured from our enemy, but when congress declares war, it is congress that has the authority to decide what to do with captured assets).

Both you and Paul need to brush up on their constitutional law, apparently.

jdw
"The Republican party was supposedly the party of conservatives. Insisting that the politicians running under the Republican banner be conservatives is not requiring idealogical purity, but requiring them to be what the party is supposed to be."

There are many shades and degrees of conservatism, so would you clarify exactly which one would qualify for membership in the party of conservatives? All, some, or a few?

A political party, if it is to succeed in winning elections so a common agenda agreed upon by its members can be advanced, even if the members hold somewhat different views on a few issues, is most successful when its members perform as a TEAM and not a club.





















Not Alliances, permanent alliances
Alliances are one thing
Permanent are another.

I have no other view than to promote the public good, and am unambitious of honors not founded in the approbation of my Country.
George Washington


Too bad so many today look to the Un and Europe for approbations,ambitiously, and not for this country and what built it.




Not sorry, beowolf is wrong
beowulfe writes: 3:16 PM
Sorry, but Paul is 100% wrong.
"America has an absolute sovereign right to defend itself. We do not need permission from the UN or anybody else to use military force. What is needed, however, is a congressional declaration of war. Our Constitution does not permit any President to initiate war simply because the UN gives him permission."

Wrong, "Doctor" Paul.

Trivia question: How many times have the US congress declared war? The answer is 5: War of 1812, Mexican-American War, Spanish-American War, World War I, and World War II. That is it.

-------

Repeating the same error over and over will never make it right

True Foreign Policy
It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.
George Washington

Untrue foreign policy
GW Bush seeking UN appproval

Mrs. Paddy ..Do you realize that we both
Now official belong to TWO conspiracies?

THe Vast right wing and the The Out of Control Conservative Backlash.

What do you say we try for three1 :)

talent scout
I do not disagree with your sentiment on permanent alliances. One need not be a scholar of world history to see the lunacy of declaring pernament alliances with any nation (For example, during World War II, the US was allied with both the Soviet Union and China...It would have been silly for us to maintain those alliances whilst the USSR was pointing nuclear missiles at us and arming the Cubans.)

My statments are made specifically pertaining to Ron Paul's notion that war cannot be waged without a congressional declaration of war. That is false, and has always been false. The purpose of a declaration of war is to give our enemies the opportunity to resolve the dispute that we have with them. If, for example, the "dispute", however, is that they want all of us dead, and they will accept nothing less, how else would that be resolved outside of killing all of them before they kill all of us?

The presidential authority to wage war without any congressional declaration of war has always existed. The first such "undeclared" war, in fact, occured in 1798 (the Quasi-War with France), just a few short years after the Constitution was ratified.

Indeed...
"Repeating the same error over and over will never make it right"

I agree. Hence your repetition of the outright falsification that a congressional declaration of war is required for the president to wage war will never be true, no matter how many times you quote the words of that kook, "Doctor" Ron paul.

To Ron..selling bumper stickers@12:50...
How do I order? :)

Are we at War?
beowulfe writes: Wednesday, February, 06, 2008 3:41 PM
Indeed...
"Repeating the same error over and over will never make it right"

I agree. Hence your repetition of the outright falsification that a congressional declaration of war is required for the president to wage war will never be true, no matter how many times you quote the words of that kook, "Doctor" Ron paul.
----------


ts:
Paul is no more a kook than George Washington was.
He just cared for America over merchants.

What I speak of, Ron Paul is right.

A Declaration of War unites

Ron Paul knows the division undeclared war.
causes.

I know its a formality, but a good one.

Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War,"

So, why is it we do not care for the Constitutional Formality today?

Are we at war?
The Military is, this nation is not.

Sounds good until you realize
that Bush has nearly destroyed the Republican party by working with Democrats (always on issues anethema to conservative principles) and relying on conservatives to prop up support for the few issues we agree with him on (taxes and the war). Now the prospect of McCain as the leader of the Republican party is just too horrible to contemplate. McCain was far to the left of Bush on tax cuts and abridging free speech, and right there with him on Shamnesty.

If you want to see what McCain will do "for" the Republican party, just look at what Arnold has done to them in California. All in the name of getting along and "reaching across the aisle" of course...

Lost, Separation of Powers
This is what has happened to America through the years, a slow incorporation of powers.
Combining the separations outlawed from the beginning of America.

Just like Mccain's teaming up with Thompson and Feingold to undermine the 1st Amendment.
Instead of the Senate and Congress stopping this illegal (Constitutional) Bill, they joined it.
But so did the President
So did the Supreme Court

The Federal Government has become a giant corporation, not a government for and by the people.

War Powers Act?

The War Powers Act of 1973
Public Law 93-148
93rd Congress, H. J. Res. 542
November 7, 1973
Joint Resolution
Concerning the war powers of Congress and the President.

Resolved by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SHORT TITLE

SECTION 1.
This joint resolution may be cited as the "War Powers Resolution".

Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War,"

war hero..?
Mc juan keeps gettin called a war hero! but one
blogger pointed out he's a war victim! some of his buddies died before giving in to the captors!
that is heroic! How about the 5 navy seals that were surrounded by about 150 of the enemy(afghanistan) and all but 1 died! many of them fought while wounded...they lasted about an hour..5 against 150 !! now folks...that is heroic! do you get the picture!! duh!
voters are so stupid! 91% of the gop voters in Az. said illegal immigration was their no. 1 concern..so they choose THE AMNESTY KID!
aS ONE BLOGGER SAID...R.I.P.---GOP!juan was caught in a big lie! so what?He asks for unity! he may get it..the two parties will be EXACTLY ALIKE! Never vote for the juan of our era!
elvis

correction
Just like McCain's teaming up with Thompson and Feingold to undermine the 1st Amendment.
Instead of the Senate and Congress stopping this illegal (UN-Constitutional) Bill, they joined it.

Stan, well put
Stan,

You summed up my feelings in a few well put sentences. At this point we probably both feel as if we do not have a party that represents our interests. I understand the argument of holding your nose and voting to win, but I remember thinking a few short months ago that it was time to draw a line in the sand with the illegal alien amnesty fiasco. I felt at that time that I would never support anyone who was involved in that attempt to shove an amnesty program down our throats.

Now, here we are.

I'm going to listen to and participate in the debate over the next several months on TH and other sources before making a final decision. there is a lot of collective wisdom here and in the columns. Still plenty of time for us to reflect and make the best choice we can based on our individual preferences.

Not sure I could bring myself to vote for an Uber liberal Democrat in "protest", but I certainly understand and respect all the various positions being taken. It will be a probably dispiriting but interesting next 9 months.


BTW
I hate to say it, but I think much of this is a moot point. The fact that McCain is headed for a runaway win as the Rep nominee says a lot about the mindset of the country and where we are.

No Dems will vote for him (why have D-lite when you can vote for one of the two most liberal senators in the US?). Probably a substantial number of moderates and independents will vote Democratic to feel good about themselves and/or for "change". Millions of the conservative Rep base will sit this one out, or even vote for a 3rd party candidate or Democrat. The MSM will turn their guns on McCain once the nomination is sealed and the real race starts; and the puff pieces, Oprah and Letterman appearances, etc, for whoever the Dem candidate is will start to appear. A Republican win would be a HUGE upset barring extraordinary circumstances we can't know of now. Not a whine, the situation simply is what it is. This is just the way I think things will unfold.

the paranoia of the far right
defies all rational thinking and discussions.

When the right (far) proclaim that they would vote for Hillary/Obama if McCain is the nominee tells you something very dangerous about these group of people. For them, it is my way of the highway. For them compromise is a weakness. For them, compromise is a sign of losing. For them, moderation is an unforgivable sin.

These are the drive-by conservative media people such as Rush and the group which is apparently followed by a sizeable people.

It's ok to have debates during this primary about the potential nominee. But debates should center on the policy and the most fundamental issues the conservatives are embracing.

There is no such a perfect candidate. There is no such Reagan again. And while I am a great admirer of Reagan, he also had an amnesty policy. If the immigration issue is the cardinal sin of McCain, apparently the so-called conservatives forgot about the Reagan's amnesty policy. And at the same time, they also forgot about Reagan's pragmatic principle: don't speak ill of your fellow conservatives.

That McCain is a strong pro-life and pro-strong national security should be sufficient to pass the basic treshold, and all other issues are subject to debates.

And the same people who admire Reagan are strong supporter of Mitt who afew years ago proclaimed that he was not fond of Reagan.

So, what do these drive-by conservative media people want?

Nothing but the Republican Party division and the Democratic President in 2008!!


I can tell you how to put it on...
While engine is idling take bumper sticker to back of car, kneel down, thank Romney or McCain and then place mouth over exhaust pipe, remember it is important to get the whole thing in your mouth and then start to count for 8 years.

Ron ROTFLMAO

Ron writes: Wednesday, February, 06, 2008 3:45 PM
To Ron..selling bumper stickers@12:50...
How do I order? :)

If you come here
In an attitude of superiority, at least get your arguments straight.
The braying of a fool convinces no one.
------------

Petrovian writes: Wednesday, February, 06, 2008 5:11 PM
the paranoia of the far right
defies all rational thinking and discussions.


And while I am a great admirer of Reagan, he also had an amnesty policy.
---------
Policy did not come from him, it was a compromise, the evil we right winged nuts hate with a passion.

Showing you know diddly squat about Reagan, conservatives or what happened in 1986 and amnesty.


Mark Levin:
As for the 1986 Reagan amnesty for illegal aliens.
The bill was carefully reviewed within the Reagan administration, including at the Justice Department (at the time, the INS reported to the attorney general). Reagan agreed that amnesty would be conferred on 2-3 million illegal aliens as a one-time event in exchange for adequate funding for border security.

The bill passed in 1987. The border security part of the deal was never enforced. To say that Reagan supported amnesty and no more is to rewrite history. There would have been no Reagan-Kennedy bill, written largely by LULAC and LaRaza.

Sorry, Bill
We're not talking about "perfect"...or even close. McCain has a long string in his record which is worse than a "well he's not quite perfect." I for one buy into the equivalent of "hey, let's pick up a horse somewhere, hand the sign "Republican" around his neck and run him because he can win the race." In my opinion this Senator's political record is the pits in so many areas. Let's give him his due honor for his ordeal in the Hanoi Hilton, and his service in the armed forces...admirable. But that by no means says he will be a good POTUS.

Beware of the man behind him
Hey, has anyone noticed that almost every time you see McCain on TV or in the papers, that standing behind him is the grinning face of Sen. Joe Lieberman--the biggest loudmouth in Washington who is strenuously pushing for the USA to attack Iran! What does that tell us? It should tell us that if McCain ever becomes president we will shortly have another idiotic war on our hands with another country that has done nothing to us.

Come November
As the election draws closer and closer, I am amazed that in the end, we may all be faced with a choice between a nasty, mean-spirited old lying POW who is truly a liberal (based on his documentable voting record, not my opinion) with an "R" after his name and a first-term Senator with no experience in anything -- and that we will be asked to choose one of them as the leader of the free world.

If that's not the scariest thing in the world, I don't know what is.

How did this happen? How did the American citizenry go from having 14 or 16 candidates (whether you liked them all or not doesn't matter) like Joe Biden, Duncan Hunter, Chris Dodd, Fred Thompson and even Rudy Giuliani and Tommy Thompson, all of whom brought something to the table -- and yet we end up with the MOST inexperienced one-term Senator around (or worse, the former First Lady of Arkansas and the USA), and the one GOP candidate who hasn't go an ounce of conservatism in him. How did this HAPPEN? How did this country DEVOLVE so far?

The right and the wrongs of McCain
Ann just might be right.Give it some thought.

good concern, Dr. North
Lieberman is a soft-spoken guy, but while he is mostly a liberal 'Crat on social issues, he is a zealous Zionist/neoCON about the M.E. It is a little scary to think he came close to possibly being in the Oval Office.

Like the neoCONS formerly in Presidente Jorge Bush's administration (Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, and Libby) who led him to take out Iraq (per the PNAC agenda which was spelled out back in 1996), there are some Zionists who believe that those who support Israel MUST press to vanquish the Islamics militarily, though a majority of Jews oppose this foolhardy goal, since there are > 1 billion Islamics versus only 5 million Israeli's.

The REAL agenda in taking out Iraq has been to establish those 18 bases there which have cost much of that $700 billion to date, which will total at LEAST $2 trillion per the CBO... and we are further alienating the Islamic world by appearing to do Israel's bidding. The neoCONS have been itching also to take down Iran, but the recent intelligence reports showed that this too would be charging at a false threat.

No mas lesser evil... been there, done
that... Juan McAmnesty simply won't do! Obama is the #1 most liberal Senator and Shrillary is close, but McQuisling is one of the most liberal per his voting record who vacuously CLAIMS to be a Republican. There are almost 50 senators with less liberal voting records than McAmnesty-- that speaks for itself.

http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm

McVain crowing about being a war hero is noisome, presumptuous, and even questionable; he simply got captured and tortured... he was at the bottom of his Annapolis class, and his judgment reflects a cognition deficit. He has never had an executive/management position, and his cocksure stubbornness is hauntingly reminiscent of Presidente Jorge, a fellow RINO amigo of Mexico.

Worst of all, McAmnesty believes in embracing ILLEGALS and making them citizens and just pushed giving them your S.S. funds. Today's America can ONLY benefit on balance from EDUCATED immigrants, NOT from the madding crowd of ignorant, indigent, culturally disparate ILLEGAL invaders who spread their social pathologies like fleas on rats spread the black death... they permeate like a cancer, and will inexorably destroy us as they morph America into a third world barrio.

Another Out of Control......

thebigmick
Count me in as a member of:
"The Out of Control Conservative Backlash"

Count me in with you guys!

They day they nominate McCain is the day I resign as a member of the Republican (former conservative) Party. That way I don't have to hear the puke about abandoning the Party. I will no longer have a party because the once proud Party has left the conservatives who are their backbone.

Let the liberal leaning idiots in this country have what they want. After the first subway bomb in Washington DC goes off under the Dems I wonder what will happen? Unfortunately it will take that and more to get our country back on track.

I too WILL not go against my conservative convictions and vote for McCain. I know many, many who agree with me and no we will not "rally around McCain" as those idiots on Fox keep telling us we will. The media has decided who they want and the devil with the rest of us.

Stay Strong and Committed
to abstaining or voting against McCain. You're not alone. We must succeed in keeping him out of the WH, otherwise, the bar will forever be lowered and liberalism will become the accepted norm.

Stay Home
As hard as it will be to watch Clinton or Obama get elected I will not vote for McCain. The party will keep sending guys like McCain forward if conservatives continue to vote for them out of fear that a lib will get into office. Fred Barnes is a hack who has relationships with these liberal/moderate republicans. He needs to lick their boots to maintain the access that he has to them. Stay home my conservative brothers and sisters. Lets send the message that were fed up with the options forced onto us by the party. Just think about what our options have been since Reagan. Any conservatives in there?

reagan/illegals
The other night...a guy who was on board at the time-senator,congressman..i dont recal?Anyway ,he said.."originally we were told the amnesty was for about 300,000..not 3 million!"
Maybe that will shed a little light on the matter?
But reagan said later ..it was the biggest mistake he ever made!
elvis

childish conservatives
ok...some say will resign from the republican party is McCain is the nominee as if McCain is appointed by the party. Remember, if he is the nominee that means he is elected by the majority.

So, now you say you will defy the votes of the majority in your party. That's a very childish attitude. These Rush L, Ann Coulter kind of people are so consumed by their way of the highway attitude. They value nothing of diversity of opinion/ideas. Just look at Coulter's book: If democrats had any brains, they would be republicans. Ghosh, this repressive and my-way principle is so outdated and yet lived lively among many the so-called conservatives.


That is STUPID!
Tax cuts for the rich during war and $10 Trill deficit? I am so glad you care about rich peoples money. You are an idiot. Hannity, Coulter and Rush are millionaires.

Torture? He is right and most Americans agree.

McCain Feingold, Bipartisan campaign reform, banning soft money and anonymous swift boat groups. You are against this? Well I say TOO BAD, you are for corruption and dirty politics. You are against the people if you are against McCain Feingold. You put party first. That is why people like McCain he is not you or in lock step with the corrupt Neo-Cons.

Immigration? Hey it was Bush's bill. Now he sees we need boarder security first before any other step can take place.

So if you are NOT:
Anti Gays,
Anti-Mexicans,
Anti woman's rights (force woman to have babies),
Pro tax cuts for RICH PEOPLE (1%< of the pop),
Pro unlimited unregulated soft money,
Pro dirty smear politics,

you can't be a conservative? That IS STUPID!

Who then?
I am a conservative first and a Republican second, so of course I am not a Juan McCain fan like many other conservatives. But it is what it is! What good does it do to sit out the election because you don't like McCain? As misguided as he is on many issues, he is still better than Obama or Hillary, even if only a little.

Sitting out the election is statistically similar to giving either Obama or Hillary half of a vote depending on who wins the nomination. By putting pressure on a President McCain, we might be able to get at least a few positive things done while he is in office. Can you imagine trying to get anything positive out of a President Hillary or Obama?
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