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Tuesday, April 03, 2007
Bill Murchison :: Townhall.com Columnist
They Always Blame America First
by Bill Murchison
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Who wants to lay some cash on the legal prospects of the six Muslim imams ousted from a U.S. Airways flight to Phoenix last November after their behavior -- e.g., chanting in Arabic -- scared passengers who thought another 9/11 might be in the offing?

The imams now are suing U.S. Airways and the complaining passengers for deprivation of their civil rights. How about even odds on their walking away from the U.S. judicial system richer than when they got ejected from the plane?

In this, the 21st century after Christ, minds no longer boggle. Pretty much everything gets a least a test run these days, including the claim that the United States, which fought a war to free the slaves, is the most racist nation on earth.

What we used to deride as mere "political correctness" holds considerable sway in American, as in Western, culture -- the view that critics of "xenophobia" and "sexism" and "homophobia" merit the benefit of the doubt. We know we're just so bad. When our country locks up terrorists at Guantanamo Bay, the terrorists, rather than their putative victims, get editorial and legal sympathy.

Humiliations visited by a few -- repeat, few -- weirdo soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison send us into fits of remorse. We can't "profile" particular air travelers for extensive attention at the gate, so we pretend that random Joe and selected Jane qualify as objects of valid suspicion.

No doubt, if the imams get their way, and their money, the government will devise a screening procedure for Methodists who hum "Amazing Grace" while checking luggage.

There used to be a rule of thumb: Better safe than sorry. Applied to the imams -- who, besides praying aloud and chanting, asked for seatbelt extenders and may have cursed the United States -- U.S. Airways should have boarded the six and waited to see what happened. Who knows, it might all have gone well.

And then, it might not have -- a point hardly lost on the complaining passengers, who face legal jeopardy on account of their concern for their own, and others', lives. Might we not call this a fine kettle of fish -- or mess of lentils?

The moral flabbiness and confusion of the modern West are that culture's most glaring features. The soft liberal guilt of the past century undermines the hardness necessary for facing -- well, let's just count up: 1) airliner hijackers, 2) suicide bombers, 3) hostage takers, 4) nuclear-bomb makers 5) garden-variety religious bigots. That's enough for now, I guess.

You may have noted how ours has become the culture of apology: forever saying "sorry" for things long-dead people did to other long-dead people. Inevitably, a culture of apology backs away from additional opportunities to offend.

I still believe, after two decades, that one of the great speeches of our time came from the late Jeane Kirkpatrick's lips as she lit into those who "always blame America first" -- for this, for that, for anything.

"Got some guilt? Lay it on us" was the attitude she attacked -- alas, without fatal results. Her oratory and example helped re-elect Ronald Reagan president, but the guilt-edged blather of the left -- always looking for, and finding, new ways to cringe before Muslim assertiveness -- is, as they say, alive and well.

No factor has been more central to its present development than secularism -- the withering away of faith in a specifically Christian, if nondenominational, relationship to the God of the Old and New testaments, from whom flow the blessings of freedom and civility. "If you will not have God (and He is a jealous God)," T.S. Eliot observed, "you should pay your respects to Hitler or Stalin." Or, in the absence of those worthies, the terrorist. He'll do fine for that purpose, once he discovers -- and it may not take long -- who has the genuine, the unbendable convictions around here.

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About The Author
Bill Murchison is a senior columns writer for The Dallas Morning News and author of There's More to Life Than Politics.
 
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Imams
Imams,They can kiss my a*s. What about the civl rights of the other passengers they were scaring the crap out of. I wish they lose there right to fly on US Air and any other airline.
Based upon the reports of the passengers, a number of the actions and requests they made would make me very nervous.

Americans ARE always wrong!
While the lamentations pour out over the fact that so many are quick to "blame America", Bill Murchison conveniently ignores the fact that we are indded to blame for virtually every problem facing the world. As any enlightened person knows, every inconvenience faced by a person in a foreign land can be traced back to some foul act committed by the United States. People in other lands are poor because we hoard the world's wealth. People are sick because they cannot afford the medicine we produce. Children starve while we stuff ourselves with Big Macs. The day is hot because we produce extensive amounts of greenhouse gases. The world indeed has a bone to pick with us, for if it were not for our interference, the nations of our planet would all exist in mutual trust and prosperity, just as they did before we became a nation.

As for the debt we owe the Muslims, let's not forget the fact that we are always commiting some act that offends them. Our government, religions, style of dress, mannerisms, entertainment, attitudes, and so forth emit nothing but new ways in which we insult these people, and it simply has to stop. We should not be allowed to commit any act that any Muslim might find offensive, and we should be willing to change out culture, ecomomic structure,style of government, and very nature so as to not insult these sensitive people. Muslims understand the world should be modified to fit their desires, and as an enlightened people, we should be making every effort to ensure their existence is made as pleasant as possible.

We should request a list of grievances from the international Muslim community, and then we should issue mandates that will ensure no offending actions are initiated by any non-Muslims of the world. The Muslims should have their demands granted, for it is not right for us to make them endure our caustic behavior.

In order to lessen the ire of those that we have offended, all governments should eliminate any teachings that the Muslims take exception to, and outlaw any critical thoughts, cartoons, editorials, or personal opinions that are deemed to be offensive. Women should amend their dress styles, eschew education, and give up their basic rights since that is not the way of the Muslims. Churches should close if they do not become mosques, and no holiday other than those officially recognized by Islam should be celebrated.

In short, it is our duty to mold our entire way of life so as to accommodate the Muslims of the world, for only they have a right to the free expression of their culture. We owe it to them for all of the abuse that Western civilization has heaped upon these peaceful people, and it is reprehensible that we invite Muslims to live amongst us and then refuse to alter our ways to accommodate the newcomers. A host should always bend to the will of a guest, and we have proven ourselves to be poor hosts indeed.

So let's swallow our pride, surrender our offensive ways, and plead for forgiveness. Maybe the Muslims will show mercy on us for our errors, and maybe we can learn some appreciation for their ways if we simply adopt their culture. There is no shame in surrenderng when you know you are wrong, and as Americans, history has proven that we are always wrong.

sloo
I agree with you. They can kiss my azz too. I'm not shutting up if I feel endangered by imams. They are using our own PC system in this country to enforce their rules on us.

Their feelings were hurt. Just too bad. Then don't act like threatening thugs if you don't want to get kicked off of airplanes.

http://peppermintsplace.townhall.com
Chapter VII of Juliet's diary is on my blog

sloo
I agree. Profile away.

Oh, Yeah, guys
You jusy KNOW they planned this whole thing right from the jump: using the terrorists' MO, making a fuss, then filing suit. There is no bloody doubt in my military mind that this whole thing is a setup.

They need an elbow in the teeth, at least, both legally and physically.

If not a .45 in the gut.


BrianR
You go man.

Why
Why should I give a hoot about others that could care less about me? That sounds selfish but so what. I could care less.

Multiculturalism and political correctness is totally destroying this nation. We are imploding on ourselves and have no one to blame but those that sit idly back, doing nothing, saying nothing and shaking their heads in disbelief.

I brought this up in a socialist class, I mean a sociology class not too long ago and I thought Sybil the Professor was going to have a stroke. Holy cow!

After the rather lively discussion was over, she was in near tears, some students were obviously angry with me but the rest were in my side.

Why is PC only acceptable in one direction? Why is it ALWAYS against American Traditions?

Why is that?

Accept No Guilt
Accept no guilt, accept no blame, deny everything. That's my motto. I apologize to no country in this world. They can't carry our undies. Someday we will be recognized as the greatest nation in the history of civilization simply because we allow idiots like Loyal Democrat to actually speak. We suppoert the world. If we hiccup the world goes into a recession. I guess we have to apologize for that. Recently, I was on a flight and a Muslim was sitting in front of me making a disturbance. He was really causing problems for the flight attendants and his seat mates. The crew was hesitant to take him off the plane. I leaned forward and whispered to him if he didn't shut the hell up and sit there and not cause trouble I would garrotte his sorry a_ _ . Never heard another word. After the flight the captain came up to me and thanked me for helping the situation. He said their hands were tied by management. Lovely!

Information Requested
Does anyone happen to know--and could they provide--the private addresses or other personal information for the six Muslim inmans? Just curious. No real personal plans. Just thinking.

Hay Mike...
Dont be to hard on Loyal Dem... Im pretty sure what he wrote was Tongue in cheek....

Our Fault Again
From a Fox News article:

A botched attempt by the U.S. to abduct two senior Iranian officials on a visit to Iraq 10 weeks ago was the flashpoint for the current crisis in which detained 15 British troops in the Persian Gulf, the Independent reported.

The U.S. move happened on the morning of Jan. 11, when forces carried out a surprise raid on an established Iranian liaison's office in northern Iraq, the newspaper claimed.

________________

So, what happened 10 weeks ago caused this latest incident? I guess Britain ought to be pretty upset with us for being the cause of their troops being abducted. Perhaps Britain should bomb Washington--that might get their troops released. Bet it would.

We do live in an insane world. Everything is turned upside down.


BrianR
I'm in full agreement with you on your post of 2:03AM.

This was nothing but a set-up ...possibly with the added intention of stifling any future efforts by passengers on future flights .....and in so doing to weaken another one of our defenses against these lunatics!

Mike....I think Loyal Democrat was demonstrating the absurdity of the liberal 'blame America first' crowd ....by being absurd! At least I hope that was his intentions! I thought his post was hilarious!

Mike
Of course you did.

Where the blame lies
You are just wrong about Abu Ghraib. Evidence shows both that abuse was widespread and that it was US policy that went high up the command chain. You can find this in five minutes of googling, if you are so inclined.

You conservatives (TH in particular has several posts today) are promoting hatred against Islam and Muslims and wonder why Americans sometimes act out. It not only is America's fault, but that it is your fault.

In order for these "imams" to get
anything, first they have to have a liberal judge who allows the case to procede. That's pretty easy now after decades of Republican slouth in judge appointments. 2nd they have to get a jury that will be so stupid that they rule in their favor. That also is getting pretty easy. All you have to do is get your jusge to ok the suit in an area where the jury is favorable for this kind of suit and hates "big buisness". Once you got that you are well on the way. The tort system in this country is broke. Very broke.

I have always thought
the imams incident was paving the way for another attack. Get us to lower our guard using PC as the tool. Screw them and the goat they rode in on. A lib I argued with last week was saying we have to be sensitive to THEIR culture. To hell with that, their "culture" is incompatible with OUR Constitution, a point the founders probably deemed not worthy of their consideration given the transportation technology of the time, ie. camels don't swim,or they simply considered islam a cult that wouldn't germinate amongst emlightened people in the new world.

I am sick of watching my culture being chewed up from around the edges like so many termites on a piece of wood, we need to call the exterminators and take our country back.

We need another T.R. A president who actually stood up for American values.

Another gem, LD
I believe the frustration of the voters last November was, to a great extent, brought on by all this craziness masquerading as political correctness. Any liberal with even a small bit of logic left inside them has to be alarmed at this deconstruction of our culture and ideals. They instinctively know that we are committing suicide. Their hearts tell them one thing, but their minds another. It's not a whole bunch of people, yet, but the ranks of democrats who are totally disgusted with the take over of their party by the far left, is growing everyday. Just listen to talk radio, where people who have reached "enlightenment," call in on a regular basis. It raises my spirit much like when someone sits with me in church and decides to surrender their life to Christ.

I continue to pray for the teachers and preachers who speak from the Word; for the President and his advisors to remain strong in their faith against our enemies; for those suffering and in need, that they may walk in His way and be nourished; and for myself that I may remain humble and filled with the Holy Spirit so others may see and desire the same.




The Setup
The situation with the six Muslim imams was absolutely a set up. It was a win-win situation for them guaranteed by our own policies. If they got away with it, they could have patted themselves on the back for having intimidated the airline and its passengers--not to mention having tested the system and found its weakness for future incursions. If they failed to get away with it, they could claim unjust profiling, persecution, and seek compensation in the courts to further intimidate us. We see what happened and where they went with this. This would be like an American wearing a U.S. flag getting on a bus in Tehran singing Onward Christian Soldiers. But we know how that experiment would have ended, and we would have chastised the fool for having done such a thing guaranteed to provoke retaliation. Instead we coddle those who sorely test us. We are to be tolerant to the point of great discomfort, but not to the point of stupidity.

The picture of ornery little boys comes to mind (but very dangerous little boys). They are poking sticks at a caged animal (in this case a sleeping tiger). If the tiger ever wakes up and breaks though its cage and hurts one of the little bullies, his parents (the media, liberal politicians, Muslim apologists, ACLU, etc.) will demand that the zoo (the world) punish or destroy the tiger. What’s a tiger to do? We sleep.

(Photogbill...thanks for your comments yesterday--I replied. I have found myself stumbling around on lower ground today, but am trying to correct the course now.)

You want CAIR's contact address?
ihooper@cair.com

That is Ibrahim Hooper, the head of CAIR in America.

I wrote him already to express my dismay.

I suggest you use a bogus email, you know. For safety sake.

The Imams knew exactly what they were doing. One of them held a workshop on how to use the media to their advantage and to stage a political stunt to get racial profiling illegal. They know how it has worked for the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. CAIR works just like them. But, CAIR is the Trojan Horse of Islam in America. They work with the ACLU as partners in tearing down our safety nets in place that protect everyone all in the name of 'Civil Rights'. Like someone said, we need to stand up as citizens and warn our fellow Americans when we feel something suspicious. They know by now what causes attention and they use p.c. and racial bs talk in the media to get their way.
http://www.zazzle.com/jenniekurono*/product/128810277553474413

BrianR, LD,Mike
I am John Doe! Er,ah, Jane. (I only have proverbial balls!)
Brian R, LD, Excellent Idea and post.
Mike...LD is the king of Satire here...read it again.

LD would have been funnier....
Loyal Democrat wrote: "In order to lessen the ire of those that we have offended, all governments should eliminate any teachings that the Muslims take exception to, and outlaw any critical thoughts, cartoons, editorials, or personal opinions that are deemed to be offensive. Women should amend their dress styles, eschew education, and give up their basic rights since that is not the way of the Muslims. Churches should close if they do not become mosques, and no holiday other than those officially recognized by Islam should be celebrated."

LD, I generally laugh at your stuff, impressed by how well you satirize the views of the left...

But this one....well, it would have been funnier if the things you listed weren't EXACTLY what the radical Muslim fundamentalists really DO want us to do....

And what some of the appeasers are willing to do....For example...some teachers in England recently stopped teaching the Holocaust in their history lessons because some of their students are Muslims whose particular brand of Islam includes Holocaust denial - and they didn't want to OFFEND them....

I suppose offending every Jew in the world by rewriting incontrovertible fact is preferable to offending a handful of Muslim students?

Loyal DemocraAmericans Re Always Wrong??
Loyal Democrat - Great satire (it was wasn't it?) It had to be because I know anyone with a brain bigger than a BB couldn't believe that the BS you wrote was true.

to liberalgoodman
Show us the evidence. Can you do that? I bet the only evidence you have comes from that genius Dick Durbin. If anything evidence has exonerated the soldiers of the so-called abuses. If you are referring to water-boarding as an abuse try arguing that having your head chopped off is somehow humane. No one promotes hatred towards Islam. If anything Islam prmotes hatred of others. Of course you can't see that because you are an appeaser, and you think there will be "peace in our time". Well, you are right to a certain degree. There will be peace and it will come by the barrel of a gun. America will prevail when it takes the gloves off, and if you still hate us then, well then get the heck out. I hear Afghanistan is nice this time of year. Everyone else that doesn't qualify as a blithering idiot, keep up the good work!

Why do we blame them?
The enemy is never as stupid as one hopes. These guys have no choice in the matter. They see as everyone else on this planet that the US is a huge boat with numerous cracks in its hull, taking water and sinking fast. Why do we blame them for taking advantage of those cracks? The legal system is by far the biggest hole, so much crap has come in through it that it's really a miracle we are still afloat. They are merely doing what comes natural - driving another nail in our coffin. And to do that of course they will use our own hammer - some all-too-willing rePEWWted legal firm. They'll get billions, and why not. Poor, poor victims.

Blame America First
As Dave Berry would say "I am not making this up". I have heard people say this country "forced" Japan to bomb Pearl Harbor because the US cut off their oil and scrap metal exports. I kid you not. It never ceases to amaze me how deeply embedded this collective guilt trip is. It's beyond reason. We are on a rollercoaster ride straight to national suicide if this nonsence isn't reversed. After 9-11-01 a lot of liberals were chirping about the goodwill the rest of the world had for the US. Don't confuse goodwill with pity! Some people in this country were so happy we had joined the ranks of the victim class and therefore entitled to join the rest of the world in a giant group hug. Of course the moment we got up off the mat wiped the blood off our nose and decided to fight back then we reverted to bullies. As of Abu Ghraib so the hell what! Some terrorist had to wear underwear on their heads. Terrorist at GTMO are treated better than the troops who guard them. The generation that won WWII was not at all mistaken about who they were fighting and what was at stake. Sixty five years later the libs are ready to turn the country over to the UN, radical muslims or illegal aliens, uh undocumented workers, so they will feel good about themselves & purge their souls of the collective guilt they feel.

LD
I understand you have demands on your time but you really need to start blogging this stuff so we don't have to hunt the threads for it. It's inspirational.

Liberal Democrat
You are amazing. I hope you have the energy and time to "work over" the news of the day into a book or a blog or something along such lines. Maybe you do. If so let us know where you can be found. You cant be Dr whatshis becaus he cant possibly have the time, but you are very very good. Keep it up.

libgoodman
"You conservatives (TH in particular has several posts today) are promoting hatred against Islam and Muslims and wonder why Americans sometimes act out. It not only is America's fault, but that it is your fault"

As usual, you libs got it backwards. The fault lies with libs like you who will support these radicals to your death. You and your liberal friends will someday have the blood of the American people on your hands.

Why I should'nt be surprised, but.......
…………………it just goes to show how shallow minded and idealistic libs are. Liberal?good?man has the quintessential lib view of just how they are ignorant of the “real” world of which we currently live in. What is it about the word “WAR” that seems so hard for him and the libs to understand or comprehend? Where is the anger or condemnation of the beheadings, the slaughter of the American contractors whose bodies were burned, dragged and hung up, the use of children as “bait” to be blown to smithereens when the (bad Americans) tried to rescue them, the use of chlorine gas as a weapon, the ambushes from mosques, schools and hospitals on our troops? Oh, did I forget 9/11 as he so conveniently has? Oppppps, how about the bombings in Kenya and Tanzania? We can’t forget Kobar Towers or the Marine barracks in Lebanon. We probably really PO’d “them” for a good reason before they bombed the USS Cole! Boy, we really are the bad Americans, the ugly Americans, and the Americans that can do no right. Never mind saving Europe and Asia from tyrant nations. Hmmmmm, maybe the libman should be speaking German, but only what they would have wanted him to. He almost had a choice to live either in Moscow or Stalingrad only IF he were the “goodcommrademan”. I wonder if he has counted all the BILLIONS of American dollars that have gone to starving countries, disaster relief, and medical emergencies. The tunnels the “left/libs” live in with their blinders on is just so sad!!!! Why is it sooooo hard for them to see that almost everything that happens in the world, have or will have some kind of impact on our lives here in the US? Do you know how to say the Ostrich syndrome? Their naive, simplistic view of how things should be, versus how things really are, is dangerous to our survival and the American way of life. Oh, wait a second. Maybe that’s his/their mission in life? The islamofacists are much more patient and understanding of the real picture than they are. Matter of fact, the libs are being used by them and don’t even know it!
It’s my hope that the libguy has the time to grow up and see the real truth and for what we really stand for and fight for.

Roadkill
re: Pearl Harbor

They must have read the now declassified, McCollum memo.
http://www.answers.com/topic/mccollum-memo


My small contribution
toward ticking off the perpetually ticked off.

Middle East-Side Story --

Sharia, Sharia, Sharia, Sharia …
Sharia,
We just got a law named Sharia
And suddenly, mister
It’s ok to kill my sister
You'll see.

Sharia,
You can’t bare your knee in Sharia
Lest you be led to slaughter
Like my husband did our daughter
last week.

(warning --shameless self promotion follows:)
http://kilroyreport.townhall.com/


True conservatives speak
American Freedom Agenda long-time conservatives put this agenda together. The principals include, Bruce Fein, a Constitutional scholar who served in the Reagan administration; Bob Barr, a well-known conservative; David Keene, Chairman of the American Conservative Union and Richard Viguerie, whose fundraising enabled Reagan to be elected.
http://www.americanfreedomagenda.org/About/default.aspx

Here is a video from a recent America Freedom Agenda press conference in which they discuss their concerns with regard to what is going on today. (25 minutes in length):
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLuy4ogxeE&mode=user&search=
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlKfLxEhx_M
Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4DG8pi1JkQ
Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PVVlno3h1E&mode=user&search=
Part 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQXU2KP6d9I&mode=user&search=

The Freedom Pledge:
http://www.americanfreedomagenda.org/about/freedompledge.htm


Typical Republican
"America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth. We can do no wrong. We are the worlds only superpower. We posess more weapons of more varieties than any other country on the face of the earth and will make damn sure well none of the smaller nations that we cannot control will get them.

President Bush is a great leader who has grown tremedously in stature since the events o 9-11-01. He is being undermined by the anti-american, treasonous and blame america first Democratic party and their leaders on Iraq. They want to cut and run without acheiving "victory" in Iraq.
With their constant criticsim of President Bush, they are aiding, abetting, emboldening giving aid and comfort to our enemies. The democrats abhor the military and think they are brainwashed dupes and killing machines. In the end, once "victory" is accomplished then our troops can come home with their heads held high, proud warriors that they are.

The liberal biased MSM is not reporting the "good news" from Iraq. They only focus on the negative and are in concert with the democratic party on trying to turn the u.s. public against President Bush on Iraq. If you
really want to get the "real news" from Iraq you might try reading the blogs from the soldiers their who are on the ground and give a totally different veiwpoint on the Iraq War, that things are going more positive than is being reported by the liberal biased MSM.

Finally the libs and democrats just dont get it.
Slavery and the killing of off & taking away the land of the native American Indians were neccessary for this nation to achieve it's greatness. Dropping the Atomic bomb on the Japanese was neccessary to show our strength, purpose and conviction in defeating a enemy. We owe these people nothing or no apologies.

Racial discrimination is a thing of the past because we live in a colorblind society where each person is judged on the content of their character, their intelligence, and not the color of their skin. people who support affimative action are supporting reverse discrimination against whites, while while underserving minorities, with less qualifications are given an unfair advantage.

The U.S. tax code is Marxist in its intent. It is an unfair system that supports socialistic/communistic democratic entitlement programs by redistribution of wealth. The people who benefit from these programs are most of all lazy, dont want to work and looking for a "handout".

Finally on the issue of illegal immigration, most of these people are criminals who are putting an undue burden on the system. Also when they get here they do not want to learn English and assimilate to american ideals. After all English is the standard language of American and a law should be passed to make it so. There is
no reason the 10-12 million illegal immigrants in this country cant be rounded up and sent back to their own country.

To the Blame America First crowd, If you dont like it here find another country and take you liberal communist/socialist ideas with you.

Go Bless America!!!

Muslims
For those who don`t believe that the Muslims, even the supposedly peaceful (what a joke) ones are not out to take over the world, please read Alice In Wonderland again. A true dose of reality is needed in this country and it will not come for the Liberals who think they know everything worth knowing. I hear these people and it amazes me no end how they can rationalize such nonsense. Our court system is riddled with like minded individuals and it is not pretty. If it continues someday we will all wake up and find ourselves under Sharia law. It will then be too late to do anything about it.

Liberal Democrat
Really frightening, especially in light of the recent decision of a family court judge in Germany. She decided to deny a divorce to a muslim woman who had been severly beaten by her husband on the grounds that sharia law allows men to beat their wives. And the decision of a school board in England to stop teaching about the brutal murder of 6 million Jews. And a school board in AMERICA decided to no longer allow students to paint or draw animals or humans because it offends the muslim students. And cashiers at Target stores that don't scan pork products but keep their jobs as cashiers, and cab drivers who won't let alcohol or animals (even service animals) in their cabs and keep their jobs as cab drivers. Yep, very scarey. We are in a fight for our very existance and the left just skips along as if nothing of importance is happening except the lust to discredit George Bush.

election 08
After reading all the comments to this article, I cant help but think about the upcoming presidential election and how it will greatly effect the survival or down fall of our country. All of us who truly want to see this nation turn around and be strong will have to speak up. I too am angered and so tired of foreigners wanting to come to this country for freedom and then spend their time trying to convert our ways to theirs. If you are so set in your ways, go home! But,we do have to take some of the blame because we've let it get this far. We need to start speaking up, and loudly that we've had enough. We need strong, not pansy, leadership. The only way thats going to happen is to get loud, louder than the liberals, and demand our nation back. If not, they (terrorists nations) will be ruling this nation and it won't be from underground.

Lazy Columnists
It seems we get a column every few weeks pointing out how something or other is symptomatic of a blame America first attitude and how that attitude is prevalent among the elitist liberals. Its a tired theme. Murchison says its even money that they get money out of their lawsuit. I'd take the other side of that bet; I think they will get squat.

SJR
Precious!

I just met a girl names Sharia, and kicked her butt off the plane-a.

LD - Perfect-a!

Left Angle
Sounds like Utopia

my 2 cents
If these ragheads are suing the other passengersz that were on the plane - does that mean that U.S. Airways is goibng to furnish them the passenger list? I don't think that would be a very good idea. Then they would REALLY be in deep doo-doo.

U.S. Airways has to grow a set of you-know-whats and FIGHT BACK.

I suppose
we will soon see a new airline with the planes having towels painted over their cockpits. But will they profile non-toweled passengers?

Oh, the mile-high club will endure well enough there I'm sure.

Imams
If any court allows the complaintants on this incident to be sued this may create a serious problem. No citizen should be sued for merely reporting a suspicious situation. This may end up creating caselaw that would go well beyond the terrorism situation. If you call in that you saw a suspicious individual walking down the street you may end up on the wrong end of a law suit. If these punk imams succeed in any court of law they may end security at airports as we know it. It is more than apparent that every successful sky jack in the last 20 years has been perpetrated by Arab Muslims. So excuse me if I profile.

Why not fight fire with fire?
Because our legal system is severely handicapped, if not broken, those imams may indeed recover something.

That's why I can't imagine why the airline and, even more, any passenger named in the lawsuit do not counter-sue for intentional infliction of mental distress, against the imams and anyone else supporting the suit (CAIR has deep pockets if the imams don't). Because that's quite obviously exactly what the imams were doing, intentionally inflicting emotional distress in the hope that they could then respond to any actions taken by their targets.

It sounds to me like proving the tort should be easy; proving damages might be problematic--or might NOT be--but at least there would be some element of risk to the plaintiffs in the case. And if the right lawyer and the right jury can be assembled, this might be the last lawsuit of its kind.

oops
That tort should be "intentional infliction of emotional distress." Though I guess mental and emotional don't really differ here.

Upon further reflection....
I realize that we are not allowed "offense as defense" in this country. Excuse me for even suggesting that we might further frighten these poor, innocent imams.

(On the other hand, the ACLU might regain a modicum of respectability if they were to back such an action against these violators of Americans' civil rights.)

The Great Conspiracy
Liberty, this may well be my last post for perhaps hours, days, or weeks. Not sure. It is just that I can only handle only so much of the bantering back and forth that goes on in these forums. I have decided to spend a little time in response to you. Your post at 09:47 carried the link to the conspiratorial article that the U.S. intended to or did force the Japanese into attacking us. Sigh, okay, here we go. As a child in the 1950’s this same talk was shared amongst some of us kids who thought about things other than baseball. Where the first rumbles came from I do not know, but obviously something had been in the news or discussed somewhere.

Can we look at the larger picture and take this to its conclusion? What was going on at the time preceding our involvement in WW2 was a devastating and escalating war in Europe with the Germans and a spreading land and resources grab by the Japanese in the South Pacific, not to mention their ongoing slaughter and enslavement of the Chinese and the island hopping campaigns. The citizens of the U.S. were largely isolationists and did not want involvement in another world war—only 7% prior to Pearl Harbor (if the polls then could be trusted) wanted us involved. Roosevelt did know that we needed to commit ourselves to the war, but there was no popular support for this.

Would there have been “plans” to have some incident provoke us into joining the fight? Of course there would have been. There are so many plans and speculations at any one time that you could find grounds for just about anything. Was a devastating defeat at Pearl Harbor the resulting clever plan? Well, if you believe (and I am not saying you do) that our military maliciously chose to line up all of our planes in neat little rows so they could be mowed down like lawn grass, and that we deliberately ignored the new radar of the day, and that we actually wanted our Navy in the Southern Pacific to be decimated and for us to be brought to our knees (not just bloodied, but thoroughly crushed), then I suppose that the imagined great plan worked. But wait a minute…if it was really our fiddling with international affairs in the political arena that “forced” the Japanese to act, then wasn’t this really the diplomacy of the day—that very same kind of diplomacy that liberals and pseudo-conservatives today think is so grand and effective? Does the existence of speculative (and the now dismissed) “plans” by some people to get us attacked prove what some people think it proves? Did in fact this nation intentionally set itself up for war, or did the inevitable simply happen?

I can tell you with very little doubt that there are similar “plans” to have Iran overstep its bounds with us today and get itself kicked hard in the teeth in the process. In a poor attempt at humor on one of these sites a few days ago, I myself posted just such a plan. Here is a possible headline in 2020 with regard to my posting: “A former member of the U.S. Air Force—an avowed conservative—who had possessed a Top Secret security clearance and had also at one time been an FBI informant and political activist, had proposed setting a trap for the Iranians, thus forcing their hand and tricking them into an ill-conceived war. Just such a plan came to fruition in 2008. Dare we call this coincidence?” Can you see where I am trying to take this? If we negotiate and attempt to use diplomatic and political pressure to contain those sworn to kill us, then there will always be those who use this as justification to attack us. And on the other hand, any action taken against us can be linked to some previous statement or supposed plan to give the attacker an excuse. Did Kennedy set up the Cuban missile crisis? No, wait, I didn’t ask that because I am sure there is a link to some site that proves he did.

If we did not have those who view us as an enemy simply for who we are and because we are not of the same religion, then, yes, it well could be that we are itching for a fight. But the fight first came to us, and there is no intention by those who first wanted this fight that they intend to beat their swords into plowshares. It is a very, very difficult world, and speculation by armchair theorists is what so many of us now engage in. Truth is many times several steps removed from the obvious, but to attribute this to an overwhelmingly complicated set of plans and calculated suppositions and to suppose that these plans play out precisely according to back room political manipulations is a bit much to swallow.

And here now is the conspiratorial boomerang: in truth, there really is one Grand Conspiracy, but none of us are privileged to understand it fully. It is the ultimate confrontation of good vs. evil that is intricately played out in the spiritual realm. Without understanding that to some extent (and perhaps you do) we will never realize how people can be so manipulated and so led and so obsessed. It is not man who is running this show, but other entities in the neighboring realm. Ever dealt first hand with the demonic? I have, and it is a chilling battle where guns and knives have no effectiveness. Such a statement will cause others to dismiss me as a superstitious religious lunatic. I can handle their criticism.

For those who would now think me a tad (or a bunch) off my rocker: Ask yourselves how little Israel with its Jewish inhabitants (look at this minute speck on the map) could be the focal point of so much just as the Bible said it would be thousands of years ago. Yes, thousands of years ago. This is like saying the Apaches or the Cherokees are going to come back in the year 5,000 and retake the continent. And yet we have certain blinding truths staring us in the face. Coincidences? I think not. Prophecy is before us. Denial remains a curious reaction.

Vent
To BryanR - I agree that the whole thing was a scam. A .45 to the head would be better, vidotaped and put on Al Jazeera. This is what happens if you continue your war against the West.

Snooper - I agree with your comments about multiculturalism and political correctness.

Liberalgoodman - Since liberals are so good at blaming things on everyone else, especially America, let me explain why anger and sometimes hatred is spewed on TH and other places at Islam and Muslims; because all the people responsible for flying two planes into the WTC, the plane into the Pentagon and the other that was prevented from hitting its intended target was Muslim. The people responsible for the U.S.S. Cole attack was Muslim. The people that blew up the night club in Spain were Muslim. You don't see, Christians, Buddist, Jews or even Atheists blowing themselves up, setting off car bombs, leaving land mines for ANYONE to detonate. Don't even start on the actions of Israel. I have not always agreed with their tactics, but the Palestinians have demonstrated over and over again that they do not want peace. They want Israel gone period. The U.S. did not start the fight with Bin Laden. We supported his fight with Russia. Your comments only proved Murchison's point. Blame America first.

Seawolf - your 7:51 Post is dead on the money.

Roadmaster - AMEN

Geminiguy - You said it better in your post than I did above.

Tugs - You are absolutely correct. All these people are trying to get her because it is so great, then they want to change it to like where they came from. They are not assimilating as all other immigrants have.

Left Angle - Except for a few points you are correct, and there is nothing wrong or bad about this point of view. We are the greatest nation on earth. We are the only superpower and as such need to make sure that people who would use weapons of mass destruction are never able to get them. We have them but don't use them. A radical muslim would detonate a nuclear device in Israel or the U.S. in a hearbeat. If you don't believe that, I am not sure what enlightenment would save you. Bush is far from prefect. His mistakes have been pandering to the leftist who hate him anyway and not standing up to and pointing out the hypocracy of the left. He seemed to do all the right things after 9/11, but has gone down hill since.
You said, "Slavery and the killing of off & taking away the land of the native American Indians were neccessary for this nation to achieve it's greatness." I have not heard any Republicans say this. No one I know has said slavery was good or right. I have heard the argument that if the slaves had not been brought here, that their offpsring would not have made the contributions to our way of life that they were able to make because they were in America. It is hard to argue with that. That does not make slavery to have been a good thing. Our nation's inability to keep treaties with the Native Americans was a travesty, but making people today pay for wrongs done by our ancestors is illogical.
You said, "Dropping the Atomic bomb on the Japanese was neccessary to show our strength, purpose and conviction in defeating a enemy. We owe these people nothing or no apologies." We dropped the A-bombs on Japan because they were not going to surrender otherwise and it saved hundreds of thousands of American lives by not having to conquer Japan one island at a time. Do you advocate killing another half million people to keep from using "the bomb"? Get over it. No apology is needed for Hiroshima or Nagasaki. They started it, we finished it.
As for the rest, yes, the tax system is Marxist, affirmative action tells minorities they can't compete on a level playing field and need help (use financial status, not race to provide assistance), illigal immigrants are over straining the system and not assimilating. We can only handle a certain rate of influx. The news is slanted and the Democrats are doing and saying what ever is necessary to gain control. They would sell out their grandmothers for control. They are creating controversy when none exists and the MSM just goes right along. There is bad news from Iraq, but there is good news too; you just never hear it.

ALL
In a shameless BLOG PLUG, swing in and check out how the liberals are subverting the Electoral Process. Popular President's? Egads MAN, we'd be under the rule of the Goreacle!

Kingsman

"The picture of ornery little boys comes to mind (but very dangerous little boys). They are poking sticks at a caged animal (in this case a sleeping tiger). If the tiger ever wakes up and breaks though its cage and hurts one of the little bullies, his parents (the media, liberal politicians, Muslim apologists, ACLU, etc.) will demand that the zoo (the world) punish or destroy the tiger. What’s a tiger to do? We sleep"

Yes absolutely correct, the tigers sleep. There are many tigers and they know individually who they are. Currently, sleepig is the only option for the tigers. The questions is how long do they sleep? Also, prior to awakening how do they organize into one collective tiger? There needs to be organization, preparation and planning. I am not saying that I know what the next steps are. But, it is clear to me that individual tigers will not succeed alone.

Loyal Democrat
YOU RULE!!!

we are SO unworthy!!

Good to have you back. You are

We are weak, effeminate even
As a civilization:
Let’s all continue to commit a dignified, proper, democratic, gentle, peace loving, duly legal, multicultural-ly sensitive, politically correct suicide.

AH! The irresistible attraction of the Left to brown manly unbridled power!

I would add quickly this link to your favorites:

http://www.alhannah.com/cgi-bin/avg?m

LD part 2
BACK and at the top of your form.

Not a minute too soon.

skywalker: a response..
The "Typical Republican" post I did was a response to the post above of "Loyal Democrat"
Supposedly he is attempting to draw ridicule by satire of what he thinks are typical democratic party positions and talking points on the major issues. It's no secret he holds them in disdain
and thinks they are ludicrous.

I think exactly the same way about typical repub/con positions and talking points on the issues. to me, the way repubs/cons think is totally illogical and in many ways detached
from reality. repubs/cons live in their OWN
world, a world that is foreign to me even though
I can mimic their rhetoric down to a tee.
rationalizing how they come to their conclusion is whole another ball game though.

The topic of this thread seeks to paint dems/libs as "blame america first" treasonist.

my point about repubs/cons who say america is without fault or blame are full of sh**t. they
truly need to re-examine U.S. history...
hat the whiteman did in regards to the native american indians amd black people with slavery are to of the more glaring examples. Dropping the
atomic bomb was an atrocious act by any stretch of the imagination.

Support US Airways Actions!!!
Everyone,

We should contact US Airways and tell them we appreciate their courage in taking the actions to remedy a stressful situation, when the six Muslim imams pulled their stunt.

Let's encourage them to stay strong and not buckle under the threat of a bogis lawsuit from these imams, who were out to test the security systems in place for weaknesses.

Email, Telephone, Fax, or Mail your note of support for them at:

Customer Relations Contact
Email Email Customer Relations
Telephone 1-866-523-5333
5 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday-Friday, MST
Closed Sat-Sun
Fax 480-693-2300
Postal Mail US Airways
Attention: Customer Relations
4000 E. Sky Harbor Blvd.
Phoenix, AZ 85034



Left Angle
To your post of 1:31 today ....No crap Sherlock!

I think some of us were aware that was what ou were attempting to do.

To bad you lack the brainpower & originality to come up with the idea on your own like Loyal Democrat did.

It's too bad your so blind to see the difference between the absudity LD accurately discribed of the left's attitude by his satire ....and you failed to see that some of the points you were trying to make are not absurd ideas. I guess you don't think there are any cases of reverse discrimination going on against white men in this country, if I'm reading your little 'satire' right!?

You feeble attempt to copy LD's satire was just one more example of the shallowness of the liberal mind and the inability of liberals to recognize, exactly, what is...and what is not...an absurd policy or idea!

Angle
Ummm... When do we say that the US is totally without blame? I'm not familiar with anyone who says the US is perfect in every way. The best we usually have is that it's the best thing going (which is true. And I challenge you to show me a better one.)

The problem we conservatives have is not with those who say that the US did or is doing something wrong. It's with those who say that everytime something bad happens, the US had something to do with it.

It goes along with racism being the cause of everything bad that happens to a black man, or Christian Homophobia being to blame for the problems of gays.

Radical Islam and Islamic terrorism is no more the fault of the US than was Communism or Nazi-ism. And like those other great evils, Radical Muslims will never accept a world with the US in power. They will only stop trying to hurt us when we capitulate to them.

Are we perfect? No. Are we flawless? No. Are we without blame? No. But are we the root cause of all evil in the world? Absolutely not.

Left Angle
To your post of 1:31 today ....No crap Sherlock!

I think some of us were aware that was what you were 'attempting' to do.

To bad you lack the brainpower & originality to come up with the idea on your own like Loyal Democrat did.

It's too bad your so blind to see the difference between the absurdity LD accurately described of the left's attitude by his satire ....and you failed to see that some of the points you were trying to make are not absurd ideas at all to Americans with common sense. I guess you don't think there are any cases of reverse discrimination going on against white men in this country, if I'm reading your little 'satire' right!?

Your feeble attempt to copy LD's satire was just one more example of the shallowness of the liberal mind and the inability of liberals to recognize, exactly, what is...and what is not...an absurd policy or idea!

Whoops...
Sorry about the double posting...I tried to stop the first post so I could use spell check but I guess it went through anyway!

15 Saudi Hijackers
If you believe this, I have a building
site in lower manhattan to sell you.


Saudis claim 80% success in re-educating al-Qaida militants
by Ian Black
The Guardian (UK), April 3, 2007

2,000 MEN HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE PROGRAMME, with 700 released and a negligible rate of re-offending, said General Mansour al-Turki, the government security spokesman.

Abu Suleiman, 33, has seen the error of his ways. "I got involved in jihad when I was 20," he explained in the American-accented English picked up during 4 YEARS SPENT IN GUANTANAMO BAY after his capture at Tora Bora in late 2001. "OSAMA BIN LADEN is a quiet guy but he can work magic with people when he talks," said the holy warrior-turned financial analyst. "Being in jail gives you a lot of time to think. I had good intentions. I wanted to help Muslims round the world, but I felt I was being used for other purposes. This programme is working for a lot of people."

Prisoners undergo social and psychological profiling, take part in 10-week courses and are helped to find jobs and even wives as part of intensive after-care support that includes cash handouts for their families. Some refuse to participate. "But we don't force them," Gen Turki said.

...Saudi religious scholars deploy Qur'anic arguments online to rebut claims about jihad, but dislike suggestions that WAHHABISM, the PURITANICAL SAUDI BRAND OF SALAFI ISLAM, has any link to terrorism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/saudi/story/0,,2048118,00.html?
gusrc=rss&feed=12

photobill: Loyal democrat is a idiot...
thats my point..his so called satire about what he "thinks" are democrats/libs positions on the issues are so off the wall as to be absurd...
by thinking he's so damn smart he really embarrasing himself and yet you right wing guys think he brilliant..I dont..not even close.

I was mimicing rnc talking points and I think I got em all down to a tee. I didnt copy anything he said...even you admit that.
and to me and practically every democrat you speak to we think they are absurd an out of touch with reality. if you think those positions are "common sense" youre as "out there" as the rest of your obtuse lot.

Left Angle

"...they truly need to re-examine U.S. history...
hat the whiteman did in regards to the native american indians amd black people with slavery are to of the more glaring examples. Dropping the
atomic bomb was an atrocious act by any stretch of the imagination."

You are the one who needs to re-examine U.S. history regarding what the white man did to the American indians. Please examine something other than the movie "Dances With Wolves". Read the accounts of the people who actually lived through that period of history and not just the history book from public school. The indians were not a peaceful cohesive group living in paradise.

Regarding slavery in America, research the fact that slavery was in America prior to the American Revolution. It was sanctioned by the British. Slavery was abolished by white Americans who fought and died to eradicate it. The events that led up to the Civil War were because of slavery. Yes, Lincoln said he fought the war to preserve the Union, that is true. However the underlying turbulance that prompted the Civil War was slavery and the subsequent refusal of the people of the North to allow it to continue in the United States. The South rebelled and the rest is history.

Regarding dropping the atomic bomb. Are you suggesting that the U.S. did not have the right to defend itself against the Japanese and to bring the war with Japan to an end, to save the lives of American soldiers?

I know, I know...America is the great Satan and should be torn down and destroyed. Maybe you are right. Perhaps you will like the new America a little better... or not.

15 Saudi Hijackers - part 2
Saudi got money from 9/11 hijackers
AP, March 30, 2007

A SAUDI accused of arranging financing for the September 11 terrorist-plot participants, Mustafa Ahmad al-Hawsawi, told a hearing he got MONEY TRANSFERS FROM TWO HIJACKERS inside the United States just hours before the attacks, according to a transcript the Pentagon released yesterday.

He is one of 1414 "high-value" detainees who were transferred to the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, last September after being held in secret CIA prisons abroad. The transcript of his Guantanamo hearing contained no reference to his detention; a portion in which he explained how he was CAPTURED IN PAKISTAN IN 2003 was censored by the Defense Department...

According to the office of the Director of National Intelligence, al-Hawsawi was one of two key financial facilitators entrusted by Khalid Shaikh Mohammed -- who also is held at Guantanamo and reportedly has confessed to his role in the September 11 plot -- to MANAGE THE FUNDING OF THE HIJACKING PLAN.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070329-114715-1192r.htm

Happy Jake
You gave a good response to Left Angle.

I didn't read Left Angles's entire post of 1:31PM after making my first response to him.

I'm glad I decided to read the closing part of his post. He probably doesn't even realize it himself but he ends of proving the very point that he is attempting to deny!

Here's an exact quote from that post:

"my point about repubs/cons who say america is without fault or blame are full of sh**t. they
truly need to re-examine U.S. history...
hat the whiteman did in regards to the native american indians amd black people with slavery are to of the more glaring examples. Dropping the
atomic bomb was an atrocious act by any stretch of the imagination."

Notice how he doesn't capitalize America (perhaps a Freudian slip). Also take note of his apparent contempt for "the whiteman"! He fails to give any blame in the slavery trade to any one but the "whiteman" or America. I guess slavery was unheard of anywhere else around the world until the evil "whiteman" from america (un-capitalized for effect)
started it!

And...another major point! His blind and twisted liberal 'logic' ( liberal logic is an oxymoron for sure) ....that 'logic' seems to imply somehow that if we had only not used the A-bomb to bomb Japan ...and instead used more conventional means....that the death of even more people (both American and Japanese) wold be preferable to him/her. He/she implies that somehow using a weapon powered by atomic energy to exact death is somehow 'evil' compared to killing someone with a bayonet, a rifle, the use of artillery, or some other means. I guess 'suicide bombing' is OK to with Left Angle too.

One last point! Maybe Left Angle can explain and enlighten us "full of sh**t" conservative "repubs/cons" why it is that we can't use atomic/nuclear power for energy. Wouldn't that be a 'good' thing ...as opposed to using it as a weapon!? Wouldn't that be better for the environment than the use of 'evil' carbon fuels?


Walk In Dude: Thanks...
for proving my point:

I said:

"Finally the libs and democrats just dont get it.
Slavery and the killing of off & taking away the land of the native American Indians were neccessary for this nation to achieve it's greatness. Dropping the Atomic bomb on the Japanese was neccessary to show our strength, purpose and conviction in defeating a enemy. We owe these people nothing or no apologies."

your entire rebuttal proves that you find absolutely nothing wrong with any of this.


if the atom bomb hadn't been dropped
Hey, LeftAngle,

have you ever stopped to consider what the U.S. war plan was in the event that the atomic bomb project failed?

The U.S. was already razing Japanese cities to the ground with conventional bombs. Just one air raid over Tokyo in April 1945, with hundreds of U.S. bombers, killed 100,000 Japanese CIVILIANS.

The total number of Japanese civilians who had already been killed by conventional carpet bombing BEFORE the Hiroshima A-bombing must have been around 400,000.

If the Japanese had not surrendered, the U.S. was going to invade Japan, while simultaneously keeping up that massive conventional bombardment of Japanese cities. By 1946, there would have been very little left of the Japanese nation.

Now, do you think that would have been a more "humane" alternative?

tax hawk
Email their INVESTOR relations as it gets more attention.

BTW, check my blog (click on my handle) to read about the current crop of "Blame America Firsters" as well as how Maryland fired the FIRST shot of the American Revolution Part 2.

SteveL
Don't get sucked into Left Dangle's diatribe on nuking Japan. He's been spouting that line of sh*t for years!

Plain and simple, we were expecting 1,000,000 US casualties.

The Brits 500,000.

The Japanese, arming and training civilians in suicide attacks, with 5,000 kamikazi aircraft ready to roll, were expected to be wiped out.

Not to mention that many men, coming from the ETO, after 3 years of combat ops were being shifted to Operation Coronet/Operation Olympic and considered themselves dead men. (Their luck had run out in Europe).

My Dad, a submariner, thanked God that he was not a groundpounder or a surface ship crewmember when the operation was announced.

Happy Jake: What lib said this?
you stated:

"Are we perfect? No. Are we flawless? No. Are we without blame? No. But are we the root cause of all evil in the world? Absolutely not."

Can you tell me what libs/democrats have said anything remotely like this...

oh and one other thing Rosie O'Donell speaks for herself not the democratic party or the liberal movement. you repubs/cons have a habit of doing this, taking what one individual says and painting everyone withing the democratic party as agreeing with what that person is saying or that it is symptomatic of such.

catalina
Good post.

The truth of the matter is that the loony left (which is now the 'mainstream' left) somehow has deluded themselves into the belief that America, it's Judeo-Christian ethics, and capitalism are the real 'evils' of this world. In their twisted and perverted minds ....anything and anyone that opposes one of those three 'liberal' cardinal sins has their complete sympathy and they will use the most convoluted logic to justify these beliefs.

They firmly believe in the concept 'that the enemey of their enemy is their friend'!

Left Angle
You said:
"Walk In Dude: Thanks...
for proving my point:

I said:

"Finally the libs and democrats just dont get it.
Slavery and the killing of off & taking away the land of the native American Indians were neccessary for this nation to achieve it's greatness. Dropping the Atomic bomb on the Japanese was neccessary to show our strength, purpose and conviction in defeating a enemy. We owe these people nothing or no apologies."

your entire rebuttal proves that you find absolutely nothing wrong with any of this."

---

If you think my rebuttal proves your point then you are mistaken. Let's set aside my rebuttal since you did not understand it.

Tell me Mr. Angle, what is your suggestion for America's future based on America's past? The events you are concerned with occurred 60 to 150 years ago, or more. Tell me your vision of the future of America. Tell me your solution for solving past in the context of the future.

What's the point of neurotic guilt
LeftAngle claims: "your entire rebuttal proves that you find absolutely nothing wrong with any of this [Indians, Hiroshima, etc.]."

The problem, sir, is whether we do or not is IRRELEVANT to the here-and-now, something you Leftists simply cannot figure out. It doesn't lead to any positive policies one way or the other.

Guilt, whether on an individual basis or a national basis, is NOT a positive emotion, and it does NOT lead to any positive courses of action.

In my youthful past, I did some things I'm really not proud of. Now how would you suggest I deal with that? Put it behind me, move on, and do some positive things in the here-and-now? Or just continue to sit around all day curled into a ball, obsessing about the past, brooding about it, unable to take any positive courses of action in the here-and-now because I fear I'm morally unworthy?

Yes, I REALLY think that's your hidden agenda here: Turn America into a nation of guilt-ridden neurotics who won't ever again take substantive action in the world. We'll just sit around and brood about our past and leave your precious Third World countries alone and leave your precious European Union alone to run the planet.

No thank you. That would be short-changing 300 million Americans; every day they spend suffused in guilt is a wasted day.

OK, but can guilt lead to positive policy? Ask any psychologist; the answer is no. There are positive mental strategies one can take to deal with one's difficult past, but neurotic GUILT is not one of them.

For example: You said you think the atomic-bombing of Hiroshima was "atrocious," and I'm sure you would like to see the nuclear non-proliferation treaty enforced to reduce the likelihood of a recurrence, right? Well guess what, I disagree with you about Hiroshima, but I ALSO want to see that treaty enforced! So how did being guilty about Hiroshima result in your having different foreign policy than mine? You really think those who believe the atomic-bombing of Hiroshima was justified genuinely want to see a nuclear war TODAY? I don't think so!

As as for the American Indians: Unless you think our soldiers are going to find some American Indian terrorists in Iraq, I don't think that history is too relevant to where we go from here either.

Blame
Happy Jake... You wrote "Are we perfect? No. Are we flawless? No. Are we without blame? No. But are we the root cause of all evil in the world? Absolutely not."
Your excellent point should be obvious to any who reason. No nation on the planet, ever, was without some sort of blame. Humans are to blame for all because no other species records or is capable of recording its history.
Blame or past guilt does not require us or any nation to live in perpetual shame. Nazi's in Germany were responsible for the killing of millions. But Germans today are NOT responsible for that. The Japanese militarists were responsible for the killing of thousands of Chinese & others, but today's Japanese are NOT responsible for that. Slavery killed and kept thousands in bondage in America. But that does NOT mean today's Americans are responsible for that. Slavery is alive & doing well in many nations today. Especially in many Muslim dominated areas of Africa.
No one can live in perpetual guilt for past deeds. Such would be emotionally, physically, and/or economically, destructive. Additionally, no one can permanently live off their accolades. There is also a limit to how much pennace can be reasonable expected. It is simply irrational to expect people to make amends for all past deeds, when neither their parents nor they were alive when transgressions were committed. America as a nation and peole have made reasonable amends for what others feel were past transgressions. America has owned up to its failures. To continue to demand America always keep on bended knee, raises the prospect her detractors may really be the tyrants they say we are. Few, if any, nations have ever made amends for percieved or real transgressions as America has.
What has happened is many realize America is the obvious target and if she blinks, they can get money from her. As the success story of mankind on the planet, America has become the target because its easy to throw stones at the big target, & much more profitable. Besides, one gets more attention when attacking America, than attacking Sudan or Egypt, or Syria, or many other nations. Additionally, America is a target because of all nations, she actually responds to those making accusations. Many other nations don't even bother to acknowledge accusations. One can get a rise out of America, but expects no rise from many other nations.
One questions, "would the passengers have reacted the same way from zealously praying Christians, or had these same Christians began moving around an airplane seating themselves at all of the exits, or had made unreasonable requests for seat extended belts when they were all thin?" I think the answer is yes!
When people, of any description, begin acting strangely in public or displaying what others feel are threatening mannerisms, it is reasonable for people to be concerned. It is reasonable for people to express that concern for their own safety when they know they will shortly be thousands of feet in the air flying in what can only be described as a fuel laden missle!
What is unreasonable is to expect people to sit back and say, "oh well, what will be will be!"

Question
for Loyaldemocrat.
It's appears to me that you must be on something like LSD or aome other mind altering drug. What is it?

SteveL: thanks for your response...
I have a question for you.

Why is it that conventional carpet bombing is
still being used in todays warfare and the atomic bomb has only been used twice in world history?

I think youre missing the point..the title of the article at the top is:

"They Always Blame America First"

by "they" he is talking about libs/dems...

my position is that the right takes the position that america is "blameless and without fault"
therfore the left is wrong for any criticism it has against our country. thats total bs..
I used certain historical examples to back up my point and low and behold there are right wingers in here who think matter how atrocious the act it was justified at the time. therefore america is blameless and faultless.

I would argue that these right wing arguments of "blaming america first" against libs/dems are most definitely rooted in the past and define the differences in both doctrines. otherwise you wouldnt be seeing articles written such as the one here by Mr. Muchinson. as a democrat i find it offensive.

To Left Angle
If you are so eat up with guilt over the past "sins" of Americans why don't you cut your own throat and leave the rest of the country alone?

Shrew
Get LOST

For others: I have Chapter 8 of Juliet's diary with GunnyG's After action report on my blog now.
http://peppermintsplace.townhall.com

Left Angle

I wrote:

If you think my rebuttal proves your point then you are mistaken. Let's set aside my rebuttal since you did not understand it.

Tell me Mr. Angle, what is your suggestion for America's future based on America's past? The events you are concerned with occurred 60 to 150 years ago, or more. Tell me your vision of the future of America. Tell me your solution for solving the past in the context of the future.

----

You did not respond to the above request, so let’s continue.

I have never taken offensive action toward a Native American. I respect Native American people. I have never owned a slave. I respect African American people. I have never confronted a Japanese person. I respect Japanese people.

Sir, please tell me what I am suppose to do to pay for the crimes (by your definition) of American white people who are for the most part are now dead?

You in fact do blame America first, because you believe in the fantasy a perfect world based on a perfect past. You completely disregard the good that America has done in the world in terms of technology, medicine, charity, etc.

Your perspective is “hate America and hate white people”. You are lost in your misperception.

muslims,imams,terrorists, etc.

Talk, talk, talk that's all we get. In the
meantime the ragheads are taking over our country. Sit on your asses and your children or
grand children will be muslims. It's fast getting to the point where we need to act!

Walk In Dude: A response...
I understood your rebuttal completely. I think the problem here is context. My overall responses have been about the title of this article and it's accusation against libs/dems:

THEY ALWAYS BLAME AMERICA FIRST!!

I think it is very offensive to me as a democrat.

On your other points let me repost what I said to Steve L above.

"I think youre missing the point..the title of the article at the top is:

"They Always Blame America First"

by "they" he is talking about libs/dems...

my position is that the right takes the position that america is "blameless and without fault"
therfore the left is wrong for any criticism it has against our country. thats total bs..
I used certain historical examples to back up my point and low and behold there are right wingers in here who think matter how atrocious the act it was justified at the time. therefore america is blameless and faultless.

I would argue that these right wing arguments of "blaming america first" against libs/dems are most definitely rooted in the past and define the differences in both doctrines in todays society. otherwise you wouldnt be seeing articles written such as the one here by Mr. Muchinson.

I think the U.S. is the greatest country on the planet earth to be in by far. I just dont take the right wing opinion that the U.S. is "blamless and fautless and beyond criticism".
I gave you examples of the past and there are current ones also...you cant just sit there with a blind eye and say the U.S. is justified in every action it takes militarily or otherwise. If you do so then you are a brainwhased non thinking robot and to me that is much worse than anyone who offers constructive dissent.

Left Dangle
You know what I find offensive? The relentless guilty powerlust of every liberal I know to blame our country for everything done in the past, so that they may have power in the present to run MY life. I find the whole "I know what's better for you than you do" turn of mind a turnoff, and I'm tired of seeing my country run into the ground by a tree-huggin, no shower takin, Che shirt wearin, unemployed and perpetually unhappy, cowardly bunch of whiners, who think they can run my life better than I can. Guess what? That is why I had PARENTS, and I'm a grown woman now, so I don't NEED a nanny anymore, thanks. Especially not one of your ilk.

If you want to wallow in guilt for what our forefathers did, go right ahead, but I don't feel the least bit guilty for what somebody did 200 years ago, and I'm not apologizing, nor am I going to pay reparations.

I believe that my country is the best there is, and if you don't share that belief, you really should move to your favorite Marxist/communist/socialist country and see how the other half really lives. Then, after 4 or 5 years, come back and tell me how horrible America is...I think you'll have more of an appreciation for your own country. If not, then stay in that marxist/comunist/socialist paradise and eat brown rice with the rest of the 3rd worlders. I'll be eating a BigMac in your honor!

Shrew
You know,Pepp stated it is a work of fiction. I know in real life that libs and left-minded thinking people can pi8s me off to no end, but I have never, ever wished them to be dead(Cheney) or to suffer more intense pain as in Tony Snow. Do YOU deny you saw any of those comments on your regular stops to the DK, DU or Huff po? Cause if you do, you are a lying SOB/troll. Don't read it, just as I don't make a habit of DK,DU. The Huffshite I read comes from other blogs pointing out what @sses you all are. Ain't it a shame? Just go on home now,hey? Grow some skin.

If the shoe fits...
I'm a patriot - 100%. Have no hyphenated name. Feel no connection with Ireland or Israel, France or Finland, Mexico or Madagascar. Family fought in US Revolution etc.

But as a patriot I am critical of my country when I feel they are going down the wrong path. That's true patriotism. For years I was a Republican and even campaigned for this or that candidate. Liked Bush Sr. BUT, this Bush. Save us Lord!

Not that he is such an evil man. But he gathered around him, especially in the Defense Dept., a bunch of arrogant thugs and greedy exploiters who tricked him (and us) into Iraq. Bin Laden couldn't have planned it better.

So, now we are having our finest killed and maimed - not to speak of innocent Iraqis. We have emboldened Iran and North Korea. We have alienated nearly everyone on earth. We have huge division here at home. At least $2 billion a month is being spent on Iraq - mammoth debt increase. We are now on two fronts, as Afghanistan sees increased action by the Taliban and Al Qaeda. We are in an Iraqi quagmire, with no easy way out. Meanwhile, the military-industrial complex is thriving - big profits for war profiteers from the blood of our soldiers.

And why did we go in? Five reasons come to mind immediately - and there were more. (1) Arrogance. (2) Ignorance. (3) Oil. (4) Israel. (5) Money-greedy war-related corporations. Perhaps George W also wanted to outdo his Dad, or maybe revenge for Saddam's alleged plot to assassinate George Sr.

It might not be too late to rescue the USA. We need to get rid of those accountable. Lots of them still hang out in DC - wild numbskulls like Perle and Abrams. Wolfowitz was awarded for his evil input by now heading the World Bank! Thank God Feith seems to be gone. AIPAC still exercises its sinister influence on both parties. Even Obama had to tell the latest AIPAC confab how much we all love, admire and want to serve and protect Israel. Israel actually is its worst enemy. Her only long-term security hinges on peace and justice for the Palestinians.

Hagel might make a decent president. Certainly none of the many chickenhawks running. Kucinich has the right idea, but doesn't seem to be presidential material. But on the war he's great. Ron Paul, too.

We need to stop being led around by the nose by money-hungry corporations, war-eager crackpots and the Israel-first crowd. Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Enough killing. If you've ever suffered the pain of great losses in your life, you want to avoid war whenever possible. True, we needed to knock out the terrorists in Afghanistan, but invading Iraq was pure stupidity.

Much more to say, but people seem to skip the long ones. So, all for now.

Keep smiling.

Left Angle
"my position is that the right takes the position that america is "blameless and without fault"
therfore the left is wrong for any criticism it has against our country. thats total bs..
I used certain historical examples to back up my point and low and behold there are right wingers in here who think matter how atrocious the act it was justified at the time. therefore america is blameless and faultless.

I would argue that these right wing arguments of "blaming america first" against libs/dems are most definitely rooted in the past and define the differences in both doctrines in todays society. otherwise you wouldnt be seeing articles written such as the one here by Mr. Muchinson.

I think the U.S. is the greatest country on the planet earth to be in by far. I just dont take the right wing opinion that the U.S. is "blamless and fautless and beyond criticism".
I gave you examples of the past and there are current ones also...you cant just sit there with a blind eye and say the U.S. is justified in every action it takes militarily or otherwise. If you do so then you are a brainwhased non thinking robot and to me that is much worse than anyone who offers constructive dissent.

----

Okay, I don’t think you understand my points and disregard the specific questions I asked of you. It’s okay if you can only counter with the talking points that you have memorized.

You say the right says that the left is “wrong for any criticism it has against our country”. From my point of view the left ONLY criticizes this country and constantly discredits the U.S. Therefore, I am in agreement with the phrase that the left “blames America first”.

You say that you cited “historical examples to back up my point”. I am not in agreement that citing those examples substantiates your point. I think it proves the point of the author of this column.

No, I do not think that every U.S. action is justified. There are many actions taken by the U.S. during my lifetime that I wish had not occurred. We are in the middle of one right now. I personally believe there may have been better ways to fight the “War On Terror”, other than taking over Iraq. That was my opinion many months before the Iraq war began. Fighting an asymmetrical enemy with conventional tactics has proved challenging to say the least.

You also say that the “U.S. is the greatest country on the planet earth to be in by far”. I am in complete agreement with you on that point.

Shrew
Ah, you just couldn't resist reading my story. Ha! Ha! You flatter me.

Roy:
The reason there is no Palestinian state is that
the Palestinians WILL NOT NEGOTIATE IN GOOD FAITH
with Israel or even acknowledge its right to ex-
ist preferring instead to continue MURDERING
ISRAELI CIVILIANS in an attempt to destroy the
Jewish state - which is their leaders' ADMITTED
GOAL.

Also, Roy:
Your support of both Ron Paul and Dennis Kucin-
ich is something of a stunner: until I realized
that what they have in common (probably the
ONLY thing) is a policy preference to abandon
the Middle East - and therefore leave Israel
to the undoubtedly tender mercies of the bloody
savages who run the ME.

By golly, I think I've uncovered your agenda!

The Shrew
goes boo-hoo.

What a mook.

Duchess Of Austin
NICE SMACKDOWN! Hey, I've ALREADY offered to donate 100.00 USD for Left Dangle to relocate, preferably to Albania or another Marxist garden spot. Of course, as with all liberals, it easier to shoot off their mouths than actually take a course of action.

Shrew
Great reply to Mook Shrew. I have at least FOUR articles on liberals the garbage they spew towards the right including the vandalism of the Army recruiting post. Which, BTW, costs the TAXPAYERS to repair the damage.

Speaking of Anti Americans
Check my blog (click on my handle) for the perfect picture of the face of the New Dhimmicratic Party.

Left Angle,
I think liberals are idiots based on observation. By your words, actions and beliefs. If you all would talk some sense, I might think differently. Until then, you belong to the party of traitors, immorality, weakness and yes, idiots.

The always blame...
they always blame America first, global warming is a religion, Muslims are the enemy, Gay marriage will destroy society, Democrats have no values or morals, blah, blah, blah. Turn off the television, radio, computer go outside take a deep breath and look around. All's well even with 10 million illegal immigrants, radical jihadists hiding under the bed and the white population slipping to less than fifty percent. People smile and say hello. Unemployment is low. More than half 16 year olds drive their own cars. People don't smoke as much anymore. Our prosperity would be unimaginable to my grandfather who died in 1950. Parents keep a much closer eye on their kids than they used to and everybody pretty much loves America. I've always believed in and loved my country. I've never trusted my government. If loving your country means loving the current administration and the war they started we are all in big trouble. It seems to me Republicans weren't real thrilled with the last administration's war in Kosovo. Might have even put some spending restrictions and time tables on it....

Blame America
What makes blood shoot out of my eyes is the news media of today and the Politically Correct Liberals who use the media to further their anti-American causes. These people are an immediate threat and danger to all Chistian and non-Christian Americans. We are told on the one hand that we, the people are the first line of defense against terrorism in this country, yet when people DO report suspicious activities such as the Flying Imam's obvious fear tactics, we are the perpetrators of a crime!! The supporters of the terrorists are the liberals of this country and around the world. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!

Angle
I've heard a number of liberals (personal conversations, not famous people) imply that 9-11 was America's fault. Global Warming alarmists point to America as the most egregious offender and the primary target of things like Kyoto. (By extension, the 2004 Tsunami in the Indian Ocean and the quarter million dead that resulted from it were blamed by some scientists on Global Warming, which, as I just mentioned, is our fault.) Our support of Israel is blamed for just about every terrorist rant or attack. Our immigration policy is blamed for people violating it at the current, alarming rate. Our racist past is blamed every time a black person has a problem, even if it's of his own making (I give you "Tookie" Williams and Mumia Abu Jamal.) We are called "World Police" and "Imperialists" when we try to solve international problems and we are lectured on our responsibility as the world's lone "Superpower" when we don't. Racist and anti-environment America was blamed (by one of the Flying Kennedy Brothers among others) for Hurricane Katrina.

These are a few examples. If I actually looked into it, I could find more, but I don't have the time right now.

Every Liberal doesn't blame America for every thing every time. A few do, and a lot of others listen to them and parrot their rantings. My point was that your assertion that all Conservatives consider America to be flawless is equally absurd. I still say I haven't heard one that actually says that.

All
Ok... what do you believe to be the definition of someone who is a patriotic American? Please lay out what you believe.

Mr. Buck
You are so right! How dare God impose himself on the world. What a racist, bigoted, stupid neanderthal he is. Just because he created it doesn't give him the right to interfere with our lives. The gall! Are we supposed to owe him something? Are we supposed to thank him for our miserable lives?

Bravo to you for calling him on this one. Bravo to you for telling him where he can "stick it". It's your body & mine. We should get to say what we do with it and when.

It took us a while to realize we are smarter than him and that we could do a better job at creation.

His infantile laws about having to love one another should never be forced on anyone in any country! How dare he. And "do unto others" - boy, that's another crock. Why does anyone listen to this guy?

By the way, when I pray to you, Mr. Buck - How do you like the prayers to go? I agree you are smarter than God so I choose to build my religion around you. Do you prefer "Earthly Father" or "I am that I am until I die".


photogbill
Thanks for the compliment.

As to the Atom Bombs at Hirshima and Nagasaki, a few points.

(A) It was FDR who authorized their development and Truman who authorized their use. Both are Democrat heroes.

(B) One only has to look at the battlefields of the Island Hopping campaign to see what the Japanese would have done. There were a number of instances where the civilians committed suicide rather than be captured by our troops. Extend that to Honshu and we could have seen millions of Japanese dead at the end of an invasion.

(C) It is the atom bomb that is responsible for the Left's abject fear of nuclear power. They look at nuclear power plants and see nothing but a giant bomb set to go off at any second and kill millions with fallout. One should note that in the worst nuclear accident in this country, Three Mile Island, exactly zero (0) people died from radiation exposure. (The three that did die were killed in a steam-pipe explosion.) Even Chernobyl resulted in casualty figures that were highly disappointing to the anti-nukes. A total of about 50 people died from radiation exposure, nearly all of whom were the courageous first responders and reporters who put out the fire and recorded the event at ground zero (where the radiation levels were extraordinarily high.) The fears of fallout-related illnesses and deaths went unfounded. I seem to recall one book actually asserting that the cancer rate in the Ukraine actually decreased after Chernobyl.

(It's not nuclear power, or fossil fuel power, or anything like that that annoys eco-leftists. It's efficient power. Anything that efficiently powers a city is evil because to an eco-liberal man is evil and large collections of man can only be destructive. That's why they won't even go for Hydroelectric power, which is the cleanest, safest, most environmentally friendly reliable power source. It's also extremely efficient. Hoover Dam has paid for itself several times over.)

Patriotism
You want to know what people think about patriotism? Here's mine.

It's standing and saluting when the National Anthem is played.

It's supporting America even if you don't support the government in power.

It's serving your country in one of the myriad ways that it can be done.

It's "My Country Right or Wrong" even while understanding that she's wrong every once in a while.

It's voting for those who you believe will do the best job to serve the country, not necessarily down party lines.

It's loyalty to the country, not the UN, the EU, France, or whatever other earthly political establishment is out there.

It's abiding by the law.

It's recognizing the faults while not making a concerted effort to expose them.

It's knowing when NOT to exercise your rights to free speech and free press.

That's some of what patriotism is, now for some of what it isn't:

It isn't calling the victims of a horrific terrorist attack "Little Eichmans."

It isn't trading foriegn policy decisions for campaign contributions.

It isn't calling yourself a "Citizen of the World."

It isn't publicly criticizing someone for flying the flag, singing the anthem, saying the full pledge of allegiance, or serving in the military.

It isn't inciting soldiers to desert or murder their officers.

It isn't revealing classified information that puts American soldiers and American authorities at risk of injury or death.

It isn't propagandizing against America and for her enemies in wartime.

It isn't actively discouraging the populace about a war with which you personally disagree.

It isn't forging official documents to levy false accusations of misconduct against the President a month before the election.

It isn't shirking military service or deserting in time of war.

It isn't ignoring our Christian heritage and trying to take God completely out of public life.

It isn't believing that your rights apply only to you and other people cannot exercise those rights when they disagree with you.

It isn't abusing your rights with the intent of harming others.

It isn't defrauding your customers and employees to line your own financial or political pockets (Enron, for example.)

It isn't praising our enemies and claiming we should be more like them.

It isn't blaming society for your own mistakes.

And it certainly isn't "making war against the United states or giving their enemies aid and comfort."

HJG

What does it matter?
I am praying to you. You are doing the smart thing and not concerning yourself over which God is the real one. Besides, the Muslims tell us it's the same God anyway.
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