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Sunday, July 13, 2008
Austin Hill :: Townhall.com Columnist
A "Nation Of Whiners?" Well, Are We?
by Austin Hill
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It’s always awkward when presidents and candidates are embarrassed by the words and behavior of their own friends.

And such was the case when McCain supporter and surrogate speaker Phil Gramm stated earlier this week that America has become a nation of “whiners.”

Speaking with a small group of media professionals, the former U.S. Senator (and former Presidential Candidate) from Texas spoke about current economic conditions, saying "you've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession."

He went on to note that, despite all the rhetoric about hard times in America, our economy still produced a growth rate of approximately 1 percent last quarter. In the face of all the gloom about losing jobs to India and China, illegal immigrants taking jobs away from U.S. citizens, housing and credit problems, and record oil prices, Gramm pointed out that America is still enjoying a major boom in export business. "We have sort of become a nation of whiners," he said. "You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline…"

Now arguably, one could say that Gramm’s comments point towards the profound reality of the psychological underpinning to people’s economic behavior. If people “think” and “feel” as though times are bad, then they’ll behave, economically and otherwise, as though times are bad.

But that’s not how Gramm’s comments were received. More accurately, he was perceived as being insensitive and “out of touch” about the real hardship and pain that many Americans are facing, and was believed to have been speaking pejoratively about the American people.

McCain himself quickly rebuked Gramm, his longtime friend and the man that he supported for the presidency back in 1996. “Phil Gramm doesn’t speak for me, I speak for me” McCain said sternly. He went on to explain that a laid-off worker or a mother struggling to pay for a child's education "isn't suffering from a mental recession" - - in other words, the suffering is real, and so are our nation’s economic woes.

But lost in the midst of this little fiasco was a question that begs an answer: is Phil Gramm right? Has the United States of America, on some level, become a nation of whiners?

An examination of the rhetoric from this entire presidential campaign cycle would suggest that, to some degree, America is, in some collective sense, inclined toward whining right now. The candidates aren’t whining themselves, so much, but their ideas and proposals suggest that they are playing to an audience of whiners. And that’s not good for anybody - - not the whiners, nor for the rest of us.

Consider the Democratic Primary races. Clinton and Obama both took the “hatred of successful people” sensibilities to new high’s (or new “lows,” depending on how you view it). This was especially odd for Hillary Clinton, who, along with her husband, spent the entire previous decade positioning herself as a “New Democrat” and “Centrist,” and the kind of Democrat who can embrace free trade, upwardly mobile voters, and so forth.

But you would have never known that listening to Hillary and Obama earlier this year. When campaigning in the rust belt states where factory jobs have declined, Obama and Clinton blamed free trade for people’s pain, and vowed to “review” - - that is, deconstruct - - N.A.F.T.A. - - as though eliminating free trade would be the one thing needed to pacify people’s whining.

Obama and Clinton have also both spent a good bit of this year lashing out at “corporate America,” and “fat cat executives” - - another sure indication of whining in America. Why would anybody who wasn’t a whiner be obsessed with the salary of a CEO? And why would anyone at all be offended that a corporation earned a profit?

Corporate profits keep millions of Americans employed and line the retirement portfolios of millions of investors, and executives who manage such corporations deserve the compensation that the corporations’ board of directors have determined as “fair.” But don’t try to tell that to the presidential candidates. There’s to much political gain to be enjoyed by promising to “reign-in executive pay,” and to “tax corporations” even further.

So what if a presidential candidate shot back at this nonsense with some seriously insensitive but painfully truthful “straight talk?” To his credit, McCain has done this to some degree. Even while rebuking Gramm in the economically challenged state of Michigan last week, McCain still had the courage that he believes in the benefits of free trade, despite how unpopular that position might be.

That’s a good start. Now let’s imagine McCain rebuking Obama more succinctly. When Obama laments “rich greedy corporations” (oil corporations or any other), how about challenging Obama on the relative merits of a corporation that continually loses money (can someone say “General Motors?”)? And when Obama vows to get tough on “greedy” and “unscrupulous” mortgage lenders, and to “protect homeowners,” what if somebody - - McCain or someone else - - stood up and sated the obvious: Americans need to be better stewards of their own money! Americans who borrowed more than they should have, should not now look to the government to “fix their problem.” Oh, and by the way, 95% of us homeowners are paying our bills on time, so let’s not limit the scope of opportunity for 95% of us, just so we can coddle the other 5%.

I’d love to hear some of these ideas from Mr. McCain. But they would likely beget more whining.

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About The Author
Austin Hill is a Talk Show Host At Boise, Idaho's 580 KIDO Radio, and a frequent Guest Host on the Fox Newstalk Radio Network. He is the Author of "White House Confidential: The Little Book Of Weird Presidential History," And Co-Author of the forthcoming title "The Virtues Of Capitalism: A Moral Case For Free Markets" (Northfield/Moody Press, 2010).
 
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Yes this country is full of whiners
Just read the posts from the useful idiots from the left who bleat endlessly about how "Unfair" america is. Want to see a whiner, look at the closest Obama supporter.

America has gone from Rugged individualism to "I've fallen and I can't get up".


Thanks libs for turning this country into a bunch of pantywaists. We'e becoming the france of north america.

Conservative talk-radio has become
a community of whiners.

I believe this is because they realize that Both houses of Congress will stay firmly in democratic hands (we'll slightly expand our majority), and the presidency has the best chance of going to the democrat candidate this time around.

So, maybe their whining is justified. Hugh Hewitt is the biggest whiner and manipulator of the bunch. Just listen to him foam and froth at the mouth, telling us how "far, far left" and "unelectable" Barack Obama is. You know Hugh is over-compensating for the fact that Barack will most likely be the next POTUS.

Kinda reminds me of November 2, 2006 when Hugh Hewitt ASSURED his listening audience, right up to and during election night, that the dems had absolutely "NO CHANCE" of winning majorities in the House and Senate. Now, either Hugh's very stupid and cannot read the political temperature of the country... or he's just a silly cheerleader with his pom-poms, ALWAYS rooting for his home team and not to be taken seriously as a political commentator.

Hugh will continue to rant and whine for another 4 months or so. And, when Barack wins, you know he will berate the POTUS. Hugh becomes suddenly anti-american when the president is a democrat.

To whine or not to whine

Every little thing that has gone wrong the past
2 years can be fixed by guts and hard work...
It can't be done with knee pad's,Chap stick
and K-Y Jelly

You want whining?
Wait till we've had four years of Obama and a Democrat Congress. These will look like the "good old days."

Economic IQ
Phil Gramm made the mistake most Republicans make, using facts. The reality is this contry's economic IQ is among the worst in the word. So of course the populus responds to the emotional tripe the Democrats are peddling. If McCain wants to make some headway in this campain, he needs to tell his troops that its not straight talk that's needed but plain talk.

The message the republicans need to send is that yes our economy has difficulties, but there is a lot that is working. And that the "change" Barak is offering could is a change for a much worse economy.

King Liberal... Ha Ha Ha!

You Write: "The point is nobody on either side of the isle is very happy right now."
----------------------------------------------
Funny you mention happiness.

No less than 2 hours ago, my Bride said to me, "I wish I could be more like you. You don't let anything bother you."

And no less than 2 years ago, for no apparent reason, my employer ordered me to give a urine sample to test for illegal drugs. The test came back negative (of course).

But it wasn't till some weeks after that a manager told me why I was suspect, "You really seem like you're on drugs. No one is that happy, not every day of the year."

Go figure!



Carlos
You sound like you are over-compensating for the fact that you are small-minded and bitter. Small-minded, bitter people are quick to tell you how "happy" and easy-going and not bitter they are.

Carlos, unfortunately we have all have read way too many bitter (and barely literate) Carlos posts to buy the "happy all the time" line. We have seen the PROOF.

Good luck to you, though, on this quest for happiness "every day of the year", Carlos. Maybe it's that you post your bitter angry comments AT NIGHT, then go back to being happy during the daylight hours? I am trying to aquare the discrepancy.

Distressed and Perplexed!
While filling my tank with liquid gold just yesterday and watching others do the same I noticed the distressed looks and creases on peoples faces as they watched the dial face on the pump and the cost of filling up!!! I'm perplexed that one of the biggest reasons is that the environmentalist wacko's have the Dhim's in there back pocket and are the main culprits in this dilema. Sure the Republicans had control for those six years but they couldn't get anything passed because the dhim's stopped them each time they tried. It's sick what is happening and gas prices really reflect the price of goods and services as a result of the price of fuel!!!

Lots of Whiners
"I don't have healthcare! The government should take care of me! I haven't saved for my children's college, they need to go to college! The government should give my children scholarships! My house was way too expensive for my budget but I wanted it anyway. I'm losing my home! The government should help me out, and the government should help the bank that financed me, they need help from the government too! The hurricane is coming! The government should come and beg me to move to higher ground if they really cared about me! Gasoline is too expensive, but I don't want to take the bus. The environment is too important, so we can't use gasoline! The government should wave a magic wand and make an alternative fuel for my car! Blah, Blah, Blah."

Sounds like a lot of whining to me. We hear this stuff all the time. I think he nailed it with the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts.


We are a nation of whiners
Isn't anybody listening?
"I lost my job, what's the government going to do for me? I can't pay for my house, what's the government going to do for me? I can't afford gas, what's the government going to do for me? I need health care, what's the government going to do for me?" That's called socialism. It doesn't work.

I've lost my job two or three times in my life. I always figured I didn't have enough vision to see what was coming or I wasn't educated enough to be in a profession that had staying power. I never looked at the government as the cause and why would anyone look to them for help? What the hell does the government have to do with my job anyway? Unless I work for the state department my job is none of their business.

Obama and his idealistic youth followers love that he is often compared with John Kennedy. He champions (exploits) the cause of people that have been hurt by job loss, high gas prices and other economic woes. His party will be the savior and he of course is going to be the Messiah. John Kennedy actually said, "Ask not what your country can do for YOU, but what YOU can do for your country." How about if we quit waiting for handouts and get up off our lazy butts?

By the way guys, it's "aisle": A walkway between two things. An isle is where Gilligan and the Skipper were stranded.

Brickhouse and Chuck
you have hit the nail on the head...the truth does hurt. Insofar as this mortgage bailout goes, I think they'd better be checking the credit worthiness of the borrowers before they use our tax dollars for a bailout. I'm not sure exactly who they are bailing out, but if it's the same mortgage companies that gave sweet deals to some senators, perhaps they want to rethink that idea.

Yes and No
On the one hand, it is ridiculous for Americans to complain considering our standard of living.

On the other hand, home equity has dropped for the first time since records have been kept, and that's a big factor in most people's retirement plans. Yesterday the feds announced the second largest bank failure in US history. The day before there was talk of fed bailout at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac who combined, hold half of the country's mortgages. Not to mention rising consumer prices and 500,000 jobs lost so far this year.

Again, we have so much to be thankful for here in the US, but to dismiss these really serious threats is irresponsible.



Brickhouse
OMG. I was writing my post as you submitted yours evidently. I actually thought it was mine for a second. I think there are quite a few folks out there that feel the same way.

fill 'er up
We've had to listen to 8 years of Bush bashing, Republican hating Leftoids. They started their run for the White House just after W was elected for his second term and they have not let up. The mood of the Country is part of their strategy.
Carlos, the only retribution you can take for a urine sample is twofold. Drink a half gallon of water on your way to the clinic AND fill the pee cup to overflowing. It's the gift that will give again.

Both parties, unfortunately
Both of the major parties (or both parts of the single party, if you will), and the country in general, are full of whiners and complainers. Yes there are difficulties in life, and trauma, and tragedy, and failure, and suffering. So what? That's life. Either shut up and get to work or die. Either way, the world will be better off.

In the immortal words of David Lee Roth, "Go ahead and jump!"

It's also interesting that there are some people who can't believe that there are actually happy people in the world, so they twist themselves into irrational knots coming up with some other reason for it (they're overcompensating, blah, blah, blah). Just feel sorry for them and keep being happy. Liberals hate that. It ruins their little kid game.

Sue happy!
This morning, I saw a video on a news broadcast of a police officer who had stopped a 14 year-old boy on a skateboard for an apparently "minor" - but potentially dangerous - traffic violation. All the officer wanted the boy to do was to be quiet, for a few moments, so the officer could talk some sense into him. The boy, however, kept shooting off his mouth and calling the officer, "Dude". This behavior understandably irritated the officer, and he asked, then demanded, that the boy be quiet. The boy continued to mouth off and still call the officer, "Dude". The officer then said, "A Dude is someone on a Dude ranch. When you call me that, you are not only disrespecting me, you are disrespecting the authority behind my badge". He then grabbed the boy in a brief "bear hug", and forced him to simply sit down, while the officer finished his business. The boy was not hurt. Not surprisingly, the boy's mother is focused on legal action against the officer, for alleged "excessive force". The officer has been suspended, pending resolution of the case. This is just a microcosm of the mindset which seems to be taking over this country.
Are we now a nation of whiners? One may as well ask, "Do bears poop in the woods"?

Self-fulfilling prophesies . . .
. . . are the stock in trade of the whiners. My local TV station (an NBC affiliate) says we are in a recession. For the largely ignorant and uninformed local population, that's the news. Every day "bad economic news" is trumpeted from the Media. I know several people who have taken their money from the stock market and bought CDs at three percent interest. What does that do to the market? Farmers are making record profits so we give them the equivalent of a thousand dollars for every person in America. People buy houses they can't afford and we bail 'em out. People live in dangerous areas without insurance and we bail them out of the inevitable disaster. If you can sneak into the US and have a baby -- at taxpayers' expense, you qualify for special treatment: welfare, free education, and other benefits not readily available to citizens. Ooooh. NAFTA is taking our jobs and illegals do the work we don't want to do, never mind that we are near historic low unemployment. Oh, woe. Sniffle. Whine.

Whiners and how they came to be
Phil Gramm stated a plain as the nose on your face truth! McCain, once upon a decade ago, would have stood tall beside him in agreement. The difference is political expediency. Make "nice" - everybody's o.k. - I (the candidate) am here to make it all better. Well..... bull! No wonder Obama has captured the young (and politically ignorant) and McCain's camp is trying to woo them. That is what we get for turning a blind eye to the public education system that teaches government should take care of everything, people should share and be content; and the patriots and forefathers are urban legends. Whiners? You bet - just ask the main stream media - they, after all, are the ones propagating the panic and loss of hope among the general populace. If we(citizens) would only stop, take a breath, look around we would most definitely count our blessings. Most of us have roofs over our heads - roofs we can afford to live under - many of us have jobs that pay a living wage - and, judging from what I see on our roads, most of us have truly neat transportation - which we drive despite the high gas prices. Does the gas price create some financial hardship? Yes, without a doubt - but not enough to keep us at home. We may have cut back a bit, but we still manage to find time, energy, and money to keep us rolling. McCain, McCain, where have you gone? We need a "straight-shooter" - one who lays out the truth and then offers a workable solution. Solutions, I might add, that McCain has put out, but unfortunately, the main stream ignores and conservatives are not pushing to the forefront. Sen McCain's platform can be found on his website - it belongs out where EVERYBODY can see, read, and hopefully understand and vote for it (and McC)

whiners
Phil Gramm was spot on aand once again McCain proved too lame to take a fight to Obama.The average American's economic IQ is non existent. But the are good at keeping baseball scores.The whole whinner thing started with Gore and the sky is falling movie. That started the attack on industry combine this with the world labor call and American unions socialist goals throw in Pelosi and Reed along with Michael Moore and you have the makings for a full scale assault on the capitalist market based system.
There are people that all feed at the public trough one way or another and saw themselves becoming irrelavant in a world based on individual choice and freedom. When the third rate academics saw that nobody needed their advise to make a pot of money they started to tear the system that left them behind rather than catch up. Same with all those that spent years in school to become affirmative action employees. In a dynamic economy where the market provides the income the Michelle Obamas are not at the top of the heap anymore.
Why change political party and beleifs if everything is okay. People need to be made unhappy so they will buy into the new solution.Just what makes these fools think that these self serving egotists have the answer for their life is beyond me.

of course we love our fine whine
Gramps, Grammshart: of course John McCain 100% agrees with Phil; in fact, he may have suggested that Gramm say that, then publicly 'chastise' him, and call him on the cell phone and get together for a beer. Its the old bad cop/good cop routine, so the crusty McCain can seem a little kindler/gentler. its similar to Oblama and rev.wright, never 'right.' the rev. speaks some 'truths' that certain parts of Obama's con-stituency agrees with, obama goes through the ritual of denouncing the words, then he calls wright and they go out for a very secret beer or whatever. both trying to move to the perceived center. Gramm's a big boy, he can take the slap on the wrist.

i agree with most of the posters; overall, despite a dip, the american and even world economy has the vast majority of people living as only royalty could have dreamed of in the past. enjoy the day.

Cry Babies
What do you expect when we do not have a leader? Bush is not a leader. He does not inspire or project any confidence. Reid & Pelosi are not leaders, but yes they are whiners. The only leader that I have heard from in a very long time is T. Boone Pickens with his energy plan. I might add, at his own expense and not the taxpayers.

McCain is an old and weak man. He is so negative with no plans except he wants to be President. Obama is a Socialist Kid that wants to turn "The United States of America" into some socalist weaked knee European country.

Frankly with these options we should not only be whining, but we should be crying.

PG was totally correct AND this story
as well as the media ignore who he was really talking about anmd laying the blame to - the press.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nathan-burchfiel/2008/07/11/me dia-ignore-who-gramm-actually-criticized-them

Of course the press is not going to acknowledge that THEY are the problem. They especially are not going to acknowledge that they are just repeating a commie party talking point.

Agree with Austin Hill
And while what Gramm said was politically deaf, he is largely right.

The problem is perception becomes reality.

I think that was what prompted Gramm's remarks.

But of course the media and liberals jumped all over the remark for its "crass insensitivity" to folks losing their jobs, losing their homes, etc.

I am not saying the economy for the last seven years has been great.

It hasn't.

I believe I am correct when saying that in the Clinton administration, the stock market grew at a much faster pace than under Bush, and further, American disposable income was greater.

NOT that I am a fan of Clinton.

For I am not. Clinton had little to do with the economy.

But again, perception is everything..it is reality.

Americans may convince themselves the econoomy is far worse than it actually is, abetted by a media that dislikes Bush but which also always hypes any sort of bad news.

It is in media's DNA...claiming the sky is falling.

Brain Washing
or Bush bashing just might get Obama enough votes because his policies and plans for America are horrifying. Certainly - he isn't going to make it on his resume.
The stock market - also a measure of investors concerns for the future - could be considered just how horrifying an Obama presidency looks to many small business owners, hard working people (those dreadful ones earning a sufficient amount to support their households), and foreign investors peeking into our future.

Senses of entitlement leads to whiners
Overall, I have seen an increase in disconnect between personal choices and results. Many of these same people are monumental whiners and blame the gov't/society for their situations.

Friday at our district's summer program, a lady with 7 kids- all special needs, came in to see what we offer. She was beside herself about the cost of living, the abbreviated summer hours for our program (9:00- 2:00, and three evenings per week, 6:00-9:00). What made it worse is that she is pregnant, and talked about that as if she were a victim of "havin' another one". This mindset is all too commmon.

On the way home, stopped for gas and was talking to an attendant whom I have known for a few years. This 34 year old man, who is decent an hardworking, was complaining that "someone needs to do something" about the state of America, because his 4th child is on the way and he has "no idea how he's going to afford all the kids". This type of encounter occurs with astounding regularity.

Yet its the people paying the bills for the social issues (who have legitimate complaints) who are often looked upon as whiners.

Ditto Brickhouse
Great post. I was thinking the same thing.
Stop the whining and be thankful for the things that you have.

I do have a student that I am almost done paying off. Can the government please just help me out and pay it off? I would be forever grateful. Ugh!

Blah...Blah...Blah...I have not paid my mortgage for 6 months and I am being evicted, that is so unfair. I should get help. (so said my neighbor.) Hmmm...lets see, maybe you should have purchased a home that you could afford. Eyes bigger than the wallet.

Gramm's Big Mistake
The best thing for McCain would be for Americans to focus on the short-term. The real economic challenges we face are long-term, and McCain doesn't have a clue how to address those so it would be best for McCain to talk about how tax cuts and handouts to businesses will resolve the short-term economic fluctuation. Then when the recession (if there is a recession) ends as they always do, then McCain can take credit for it just like the Bush administration did.

The last thing Gramm wants to do is talk about the national debt, social security and medicare.

Just trivia?
Phil Gramm authored the "Enron loophole" while his wife was sitting on their Board.

As such a blatant corporate puppet, I don't think he's in any position to pass judgement on the rest of the country.

Jerabaub, re: B. Clinton
I see in my Boston Globe this morning (ugh--I read it for penance and amusement)that Slick Willy spoke at the governors' conference and came out for, are you ready:

States' rights. He said "The [constitution's] framers were right." Nice discovery for Yale and Georgetown Law grad.

Just finished Forrest McDonald's "States' Rights and the Union;" one of the top 5 amhistory books i've read. Basically says that whoever is out of power in the fed gov't, mysteriously becomes advocate of federalism, states' rights.

King Liberal of 12:xx AM
This post is more like your regular self. Once you get away from Obamamania, your natural gifts for observation and analysis kick in, making you one of the more interesting and persuasive of our alternate posters.

Having watched the disappointment of the identity voters who elected JFK and Carter, i am looking forward to your opinions of Obama's performance, providing he gets elected, of course.

Man-up
Sen. Gramm tells America to man-up. Right on the money. The spineless McCain campaign needs the same advice. This is the Dole campaign 2.0.

We are a nation of whiners
But no doubt our politicos are ruining things at a very fast rate. The published statistics -- i.e., "official" ones -- are doctored by the govt. and are meaningless. So, while we are a nation of wimps and whiners, the govt. is lying to us and in fact things are far worse than this political prostitute would have you believe.

Generation Whine and their offspring
the GrabbyBabies, having been convinced that they are Special, have grown up to be spineless jellyfish who demand, demand, demand. *Somebody* usually mans their parents or someone in their parents generation. Friday we saw Generation Whine standing in line for the iPhone, glad to sign a 3 year contract at monopoly prices that does not permit them to upgrade their Binkie and forces them to pay $100 per month as a base cost. Whining, crying, flailing and kicking, but buying. One of these brats explained helplessly *Its the iPhone! WHAT WOULD I DO WITHOUT IT?*

There was a brief series of advertisements for Michelina that were titled Let Mama Feed You. This is the motto that will catch the attention of those who fit the definition of Chutzpah: *I want a book on chutzpah and I want YOU to pay for it!*

This is the generation that thinks buying a t-shirt or chanting Stop Hunger Nowwwww! is Doing Something -- and that paying extortionate amounts of money for a Binkie is something you HAVE to do.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind, boys and girls.

MSM and their Mission
John Swinton, former chief of staff, New York Times, when called upon to give a toast before the New York Press Club (1953) said this:

"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know it would never appear in print.

I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out in the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before 24 hours my occupation would be gone.

The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread.

You know it and I know it, so what folly is this toasting an independent press. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings, we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes"

The problem with Gramm's speech...
is that he makes no attempt at defining what he is talking about. Congress is sporting a brand new 9% approval rating. Are we whiners or is he trying to dismiss legitimate complaint with over our governance.

Our leaders have talked about oil independence for decades and done nothing to make that a reality. If fact, their actions have been quite the opposite. Exports are indeed rising but the increase is based on the falling dollar not a greater demand for U.S. goods.

Our borders are regularly violated as everyday more workers arrive to displace Americans, not just unchecked, but encouraged by our leaders. Rising gas prices, falling sales in many areas, devalued real estate, increased taxes on every level to fund the giant pander box, food prices skyrocketing, the list grows everyday.

The two candidates have near identical plans to further add to the already huge burden being carried by the taxpayer. Sure, the bite hasn't gotten to all segments of society but it is now being felt firmly by the middle class. This is the endgame of our long slide into socialism. The elimination of the middle class.

If that is who Gramm is talking about then I suggest he consult his economic history book and see if he can find a western country that has ever survived taxing it's citizens at more than 50%. Here's a hint...there aren't any.

Complaining about the intrusiveness and heavy hand of government, demanding that they take their hands out our pockets, stop spending like a valley girl at the galleria with daddy's credit card, and get out of the way of American business is not whining and he would be wise to listen and not dismiss these voices.

Worker Envy
Here in Michigan, we are seeing the same "old Boy" network of compensation committees rewarding
their friends with huge bonuses whilst demanding sacrifices from the hourly paid workers. Caveat: I am not a union flunky, nor am I associated with the UAW. Recently. Bob Rauch of American Axle was rewarded with an eight million dollar bonus whilst the UAW members were being asked to accept a twelve dollars an hour pay cut. Now sir, please tell your readers that that makes any kind of sense. A similar situation occured at Delphi, where the executives who ran the Company into penury asked to be rewarded with multi million dollar bonuses. Thank the Almighty, a bankruptcy judge said "hell No'

damn straight we're whiners!
Read post #10 from Brickhouse.

Let me ask who are the biggest whiners on earth? Euro-sissies! And we're beginning to act like them! I thought we fled them bums, kicked their butt off our lands and did things "our" way with HARD WORK AND GUTS!?!

OK, so our economy ain't a bunch of peaches, but looking for gov't help ain't the answer and we should be demanding them bums to cut, cut, cut, everything including their yearly automatic pay raise they give themselves.

Mad and whiny? Then kick your representatives out of office and put fresh faces in, but then get off your butt, get some GUTS AND WORK HARD yourself.

Love ya...

Poll your Pocketbook

Instead of worrying about what others think from some poll - poll your pocketbook.

All experts I can find think that gas prices will top off at $7.00 a gallon - that is based on the 'faith' that Iran or Israel will not start a war in the Middle East.

That is a 75% increase in the current prices.

Groceries will go up. Clothes will go up.

Home heating and cooling will go up.

School supplies will go up.

Garbage collection will go up.

Obama promises increased taxes on SS and personal Income taxes.

The number of Government employees already exceeds Wal-Mart at 1,800,000 and
Obama promises a huge increase in government.

School taxes will rise because of heating and cooling schools and the gas to bus them.

State and Local taxes will increase to meet the demands of the new Obama 'solutions'.

Would you rather listen to polls or look in your wallet?

Obama and a Democrat congress will ensure a 'Change' you might not want to believe in unless you are very wealthy.

Joseph
Maybe there is hope for Bill Clinton after all.

For the last few years, I had read some books by socalled conservatives(Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham,David Horowitz), but now I am reading authors critical of Bush and this Iraq war.

Just finished Isikof's and Corn's "Hubris", which I highly recommend, and am now reading "America Alone", by Halper and Clarke, about the origin, policy and evolution of the neocons, and their huge influence on the Bush administration. Not as readable as the page-turner "Hubris", but if you want to understand the neocon phenomeon as dissected by traditional conservatives, it is very good book.

By the way, the authors assert the neocon mindset to remake the world in America's image, employing our military in such a pursuit, is illsuited, and probably damages our efforts at combating Islam radicalism.

On American history, I really loved David McCullough's biography on John Adams, even liked it much more than his "1776".

Also liked the HBO special based on McCullough's book on Adams.

Federal Employees Not Whining
Employers in America
Top Five Employers in United States of America
-------------------------------------------------
1) Fed Employees 1,800,000 excludes Military.
2) Walmart 1,800,000
3) United States Postal Sevice 678,782
4) McDonalds 447,000
5) United Parcel Service 407,000
-------------------------------------------------
Average Salary of Federal Employee 64,684
Average Benefits of Federal Employee 46,496
------------------------------------ =======
------------------------------------ 111,180

5.74 billion in credit card fraud by FED employees

An Agriculture Department employee fraudulently wrote 180 convenience checks for more than $642,000 to a live-in boyfriend over a six-year period. The money was used for gambling, car and mortgage payments, dinners and retail purchases.

This does not include "contractors" that actually do the work FED employees are not competent to do even though they are qualified for the position.

Obama promises to increase the number of federal employees dramatically.

Yes indeed Mr. Gramm!
It's very simple.....when all able individuals in this nation become personally accountable for their lives, the whining will cease.

My Pet Goat
Have a cigar. Nice screen name.

Don't know much about Gramm, but you appear to be correct that he authored a bill that greatly deregulated the financial services industry, and further, his wife while heading a federal commission, did exempt Enron's "energy-swap" activities from government oversight(and Enron was a big contributor to Gramm).

Also, I think 5-time-student-deferment from the Vietnam War Phil Gramm opposed legislation that would fund an education center on the Vietnam War at the Vietnam Memorial.

He even bests Cheney on the number of student deferments during the Vietnam war era.

Obama and Democrats want High Gas
“I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment. The fact that this is such a shock to American pocketbooks is not a good thing.”
Barack Obama

ANWR Exploration
House Republicans: Supported
House Democrats: Opposed

Coal-to-Liquid
House Republicans: Supported
House Democrats: Opposed

Oil Shale Exploration
House Republicans: Supported
House Democrats: Opposed

Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration
House Republicans: Supported
House Democrats: Opposed

Refinery Increased Capacity
House Republicans: Supported
House Democrats: Opposed

- 2 Trillion barrels of oil are estimated in the United States Oil-Shale Reserves (USGS)
- 400 Billion barrels of oil are estimated under the Arctic Ocean
- 175 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in the Oil Sands of Alberta, Canada (AGS)
- 86 Billion barrels of oil are estimated on the Outer Continental Shelf of the United States (MMS)
- 32 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in ANWR, NPRA and the Central North Slope in Alaska (USGS)
- 31.4 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in the East Greenland Rift Basins Province (USGS)
- 15 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in Jack field in the Gulf of Mexico
- 7.3 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in the West Greenland–East Canada Province (USGS)
- 4.3 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in the Bakken shale formation in North Dakota and Montana, United States (USGS)
- 214 Million barrels of oil are estimated in the Illinois Basin, United States (USGS)

For Comparison:

- 260 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in Saudi Arabia (EIA)
- 80 Billion barrels of oil are estimated in Venezuela (EIA)


Retired Geek
Ordinarily, i quickly get weary of repetitive posts (except my own of course :-D ) but your statistics on oil reserves can never be posted enough. Over and over we hear BS like We can't drill our way out of this. Or statements like All the oil in ANWR will only provide (fill in blank) per cent of our needs. Its vital we start the process of developing our fossil energy now. Eventually, and possibly quite soon, the speed of technology what it is, fossil fuels will become less important. Best we use ours while they make the biggest difference. I do notice that after your stats appear, the No Drill Trolls disappear. No one has even attempted to refute them.

Confound the liberal trolls. Tell the truth.

Victims
This whole campaign is about victimization - and whining is its voice. Listen to BO everytime there is pushback on one of his comments. He plays the victim. He has it down to perfection.

Equal Outcomes is a farce

Every family has individuals with different mental, social values and ethics.

Everyone in a family may start from the same point be it poor or rich. Individual pursuits and decisons will vary and the outcomes are dissimilar.

Those who work hard and make good decisions in life will prosper to the extent of their abilities and fail at the same rate with bad decisions and work ethics.

Those who live modestly within their means will do well, while those who live on credit cards and buy things beyond their means will suffer.

Just because one can buy things on credit like fancy food in a restaurant that is enjoyable and gone tomorrow or a car or house that is beyond their means to pay for, doesn't make them a victim of society but rather a victim of their own folly.

Expecting others to 'foot the bill' for their bad decisions is childish at best and 'legal stealing' at worst.

Within my family we have varied prosperity and incomes and that is the 'normal' family of man.

Obamunism wants equal outcomes for everyone that will not work and everyone who makes bad decisions about their education.

Obamunism wants equal outcomes for those sweeping the parking lot at 'Burger King' and those running large corporations.

Obamunism wants 'whiners' whose own decisions have caused their own poverty through drugs, crime and welfare.

Obama will be POTUS if more people whine against those who have determined that they will work and support their families.



Will brilliantly notes
Conservative talk-radio has become a bunch of whiners for sure! So have most right wing con bloggers here!

Baloney
Having tax cuts that give more to the middle class than to the mega rich is not whining. Crying for government hand outs like the airline industry did after 911 is whining.

Big business hires lobbyists to whine for them. Please wave the environmental rules, don't make us keep our mines safe, even don't make us document of illegal employees.

Conservatives whine all the time. Look they called it a holiday tree in target, look ate Janet Jackson at the Superbowl.


Nation coming for Washtington D.C
1) Fradulent congress that spends and gives this president a rubber stamp on every item
2) Congress that almost passed the 100 million illegal amnesty
3)

By the way Phil Grahamm, you were a Democrat and you took Ron Paul's position for Senate in Texas. We would be discussing real issues like illegal immigration, the Federal Reserve (how it has destroyed the economy by transfering weatlth through the stock market to commodities via the printing press), etc.

No we have to list Phil Grahamm, who is another fossil on the GOP list that they dug out of the archives.

July 12th was a Revolution in Washington D.C where the MSM will not report. There will be more than a revolution in the next 2 years. The congress will be running to the hills in 2 years when we are in a hyperinflationary depression.

Pictures from the 1st wave of the revolution yesterday in Washington D.C. Get ready congress the Americans are coming for you.

Pictures:

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/4793/2660791297ceae70717 6btm4.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6422/2661603078146745047 5byx9.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80QfcbzaPnE





Democrats Dedicated to High Gas Prices?
Can anyone here posit a reason why Democrats Dedicated to High Gas Prices?

I can not figure out why Democrats see High Gas Prices as the best possible solution for the American economy.

Can someone enlighten us?

I propose a new law
Unless some condition affects at least 20 percent of the population, it should be hands-off for the Feds to 'fix' it.

Pistol
I agree we must drill domestically.

And, Retired Geek is right that the Democrats are mostly to blame for not drilling domestically.

This is an area where the Democrats and Obama are vulnerable.

Given the disenchantment of the public with the GOP brandname, I don't know if it is enough to turn the tide, but most polls(Rasmussen, Newsweek)have the race neck-and-neck, altho Rasmussen has Obama with a sizable advantage in electoral college(see today's Drudge Report).

I still say, given the fact Americans are beset with horrific gas prices, and the unpopularity of the Iraq war, that Obama OUGHT to be 15 to 20 points ahead of McCain...and the fact he is not, is an indication of some weakness.

not only whiners
but thankless whiners at that. We have the highest standard of living in the world. Even our very poor people live better than many people around the globe. We have become so enamored of Madison Avenue's constant barrage of manipulation that we can"t be happy without the latest "whatever" that will instantly make us sexier, better looking and happier to the Nth degree.
Giving up freedom for the shackles of government coddling is considered normal thinking. Those of us who actually get up in the morning and say to ourselves "Wow, I'm alive! Thanks, God, for another day"tend to be more thankful for what we have and disdain the needs/desires of the consumerism that drives the whiners. We are considered cold-hearted and cruel if we expect self-reliance from ourselves and others, and we are insane for believing that hardship is not only a part of life, but desirable to the extent that it forges the determination of a person to not only survive, but thrive.
Personally I'm tired of both sides of the aisle trying to "fix" what ain't broken. Dr. B. Spock started this whole thing by making people think they had to coddle their children in order not to hurt their wee psyches. Unfortunately those children have grown physically but not emotionally/logically and now hold offices of power through out the land.
My children and grandchildren will never know the freedom I have enjoyed in my lifetime.

PIMCO bond fund manager
PIMCO bond fund manager writes President Obama a letter

Dear President Obama: You have inherited a mess. Your predecessor, fixated on emulating a former Republican icon from a far different economic era, chose to emphasize tax cuts for the rich and excessive consumption for all Americans. He promoted deregulation and free markets when, in fact, the markets and their institutions needed tough love. Over eight years, he failed to put forth a coherent energy policy. He needlessly invaded Iraq and lowered worldwide esteem for this nation as a symbol of freedom and benevolence.

read more

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/pimco-bond-fund-ma nager-writes-president-obama-a-letter

Si Senor
One thing you never do is tell people the truth. That will get you in trouble.

The nation reaches out its arms to two marginal politicians, both promising to change our soiled diapers and feed us because we can't do it ourselves. The citizens are fat with diabetes, lazy, stupid. We're all hyphenated victims and injure parties. We no longer build things, we win our fortunes on reality TV shows and with our lawsuits.

Once when confronted by obstacles, Americans removed them. Now we simply adapt. Nineteen barbarians came here and completely outwitted all of our mighty defenses and brought us to our knees. We can't even fill in the hole they made on 9/11. We refuse to win wars because to do so offends our enemies.

We've decided to go back to horses and buggies because one delusional messiah tells us our plastic bags are destroying the planet.

We won't tap our own energy sources. We'll send all of our money to our enemies and send our sons and daughters to lose life and limb on the soils of enemy lands because Al Franken tells us not to touch those domestic reserves.

I'd say whinners would actually be a compliment. We're pathetic. We're a nation of special needs retards.

Democrats wanted High Gas since 1991
On January 14, 1991, during Desert Storm, Alaska Sen. Frank Murkoswki warned that it was an "indisputable and disconcerting fact-United States oil production is in deep decline. Every major oil field in the United States is declining."

That has been the policy of the Greens and Democrats with regard to this nation's ability to utilize its own existing oil reserves and explore for new ones.

On April 11, 1991, Senator Al Gore spoke on the floor of the Senate praising a National Academy of Sciences study which 'rings the alarm bells again and tells us of the urgent need to take action now to combat global warming.'"

The report called for "restructuring energy prices to more accurately reflect environmental costs"; this is just another way of saying those higher prices for gasoline are necessary.

It Was Democrat Al Gore "who led the opposition to President George Bush's effort to reduce America's dependency on Arab oil." Our dependency is now around 50% or more.

Whiners and Ninnies
The majority of Americans are Whiners. They want government to FIX IT whenever something comes up. I hear whining everyday, gas prices, food prices etc., etc. I have never hear anyone whine when they get a salary increase or a bonus. Most Americans have/are lazy complaining JackA$$es [sorry for demeaning the donkey]. The government is and should only be concerned with protecting it's people and BORDERS. Politicians are like Diapers, they're FULL of Crap and need to be Changed often.

Wait for the Obama Jugen!!
Want whining? Wait till O'Vomit unveils his plans to double the size of the two biggest wastes of manpower and money know to Man: Americorps and the Peace Corps. Staffed with little Albright and Christopher clones.

He has also floated a "National Security Force" or NSF EQUAL in size and firepower to all three primary branches of the military. Why? Has he realized that the military are NOT robots who won't follow any illegal order that pops into his puppet master's head?

He HAS to be run by somebody he can't think or speak for himself that's for damned sure. WHY does he want an armed force of several hundred thousand with armor and air power to "monitor" the U.S.? Maybe he'll stop shaving off that silly little mustache?

-Ray
NRA Life Member

democarts love misery
The Democrits along with their media partners are allways telling the American people how bad their lives are-"just give us your money and we will take care of you" Socialist style
I am sorry some people are having financial problems I have been there more than once myself but take personal responsability COMMON people get out there get more education get more training start a business have self respect and feed yourself and your family- WHINING doesn't help unless your running for public office

Check Free Republic!!!!!!!!!!!!
The story on the National Security is there.

-Ray

Whine Away Waste Away
There is a lot more open whining in free societies as opposed to the rest. However, we are much more spoiled than previous generations due to numbing materialism and the myriad of welfare programs demanded by most of us.



It's all Geek to me!
Seriously, have you READ the columns by that Fried or Friedman guy at the Times? He CHEERED for $4/gallon gas and his wet dream is $10/gas!!
He wants to get us ALL out of our cars, except for the "enlightened elites" like him of course, and into Soviet style condos with lousy plumbing and heat and NO air conditioning!!!

He wants to KILL the suburbs and reclaim them for the elites. Without ready transport to and from work we'll HAVE to move right back next to the "losers in life's lottery" as Algore would say and hire private security just to be able to wake up without our throats cut.

THIS is the elitism behind high gas. Even if we tapped the 800 BILLION barrels of oil in our shale and offshore fields, not to mention ANWR, and COULD drop gas back to $2-2.50/gal. he'd STILL want $10/gallon even if it required TAXES to get it there. Lib elites adore taxes anyway.

-Ray
NRA Life Member

WHINERS VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS

.....The Demo/Socialist Party caters to, recruits and depends on whiners .....COLOSSUS

Don't Kill the Messenger!
Sad experience has taught me that if you punish someone for making an honest mistake, or jump all over his case for blurting out the truth, he will clam up, and there goes your early warning system. The flap over Phil Gramm's recent remark is evidence that John McCain's skin is every bit as thin as Barack Obama's. This is a bad omen for the rest of us.

Whining Geek
Your continual posting of fantasy numbers concerning energy reserves displays whining at a high level.

Just for the record:

Oil shale technology was eliminated by Reagan

Offshore oil moratorium ordered by Bush, Sr

Current Republican Presidential candidate opposes ANWR

so called recession
There may be a recession in some parts of the country,while others are doing great.The president has very little to do about the economy without the help of congress.This am there was a lady physcologist on GMA and she said the very same thing that Gramm said.She also said a lot of the problem is the msm constantly harping about how bad it is.

well DA!!!!
Growing up in the Peoples Republic of Michigan....We are Professional Whinners, I would only think second to Kalaifornia. We are forced fed nothing but doom & gloom, The Marxist telling us that IT's someone ele's fault, well it sure can't be ME!.

"You've lost your job because some Fat-Cat sitting in a big office wants more Money", but we fail too hear that company cuts are too save the Company, sure they hurt, (remember, it is a privlidge to work for a company, NOT a privlidge for the company to have you working for them, That's the Blind Ego of the UAW and other unions.) or maybe the 75,000 pages of Federal Restriction might just be squeezing the life out of our industries.

we _itch about everything under the sun, because we DO NOT want to face the fact, our federal Government is out of controll, we are being forced into Europeian-Enviro-Marxist life styles. We can't smoke, eat, breath, sure as hell shouldn't be driving my earth crushing SUV, so what's left......Waaaaaaaaaa. No time like now to start blaming someone!

I have standing on this issue. Last friday I was let go from my job. It is a fact that Michigan is in a one State ressesion, the Governor is a dim'wit, John McCain was in town, tossed Phil Gramm under the bus. When I got home I didn't cry, or blame anyone, I cracked a beer, and started working on my Resume, I have been attending college at night, I graduate in September. I hope (their's that word).....I have faith, that I will be working soon.

We may be waving good by too the Peoples Republic of Michigan (that is if they let us leave).

become?
We have been a nation of whinners at least since the 1960s.

Maybe its not Whining.
One persons whining is another persons legitimate concern. Consider:

1. Costs of health care, food and fuel have risen much faster than personal income. If you're a salaried person, or a wage earner, your standard of living has declined. Not only do you have less money to spend for personal expenses, housing and cars, but if you own an SUV etc., the value of the car has dropped. Further, for over 1/2 the people, their home value has also fallen by 15% or more. These people feel like they are in a recession, even if the government statistics claim the nation as a whole isn't. And that's over 1/2 the people. Are these people "whiners"?

2. We have simply abdicated our willingness to enforce immigration laws. In the next 25 - 30 years, 1/2 the American people will be black, hispanic, or Asian, and over 1/2 of those will be hispanic. And if we continue to refuse to enforce such laws which results in another 1 million or more illegals in this country every year, let alone provide amnesty to the 12 million to 20 million illegals alaready here, it will happen even sooner. Are these people "whiners"?

3. We are bogged down in nation building in both Iraq and Afghanistan. It's costly and our forces are over-extended. If another crisis arises that requires ground forces, we cannot respond. The forces in turn are tired, and the officer core, of which many have now had 4 or 5 tours in these two countries, is wearing down. Are people who deal with this issue "whiners"?

4. Costs of the 4 principal entitlement programs are rising faster than tax revenues, and while this is transpiring, we are running up record deficits which we have to finance overseas. Are people concerned about this issue "Whiners"?

Perhaps. On the other hand, perhaps they are Americans who see critical problems that are simply being ignored, and like the voters they are, they're refusing to remain silent anymore.

THREE BAGGER

.....PANCHO ...

.....You get three bases on that one ...you have illustrated why so many conservatives, myself included, are irratated and frustrated with the Republican Party .....COLOSSUS

Myk (#17) RE: Sue happy!

"Not surprisingly, the boy's mother is focused on legal action against the officer, for alleged 'excessive force.'"

Yup! This is exactly where our "liberal progressive" mentality has landed us.

Had my 14yr. old pulled something so disrespectful, there would have been some "excessive force" used the minute he walked through the door.

Sadly, you are right. "This is just a microcosm of the mindset which seems to be taking over this country."

This is exactly what we need to stop whining about and get off our collective butts and DO SOMETHING about... that is to say, vote the liberals out of Congress!

Whiners get the newsprint
I was reading about all those poor people forced to stand in line. All of those poor people who had trouble getting their latest. All of those people who waited hours on end just to have their new love fail. Of course, I'm talking about all those poor people waiting for their new i-phone. The indignity of having to wait for their newest toy, newest obsession, newest gadget to go along with all the other techie toys they just HAVE to have. Not eventually, but RIGHT NOW. Whiners? You bet. Spoiled, you bet. Wait...NOT ME! AS the Citi-bank commercial boasts, "I want it ALL, and I want it NOW!!!" Our forefathers would be so proud of what we've become.

When Pumping Gas say "Hail Al Gore"
"You may want to give credit where credit is due to Al Gore and his global warming campaign the next time you fill your car with gasoline, because there is a direct connection between Global Warming and four dollar a gallon gas.

It is shocking, but true, to learn that the entire Global Warming frenzy is based on the environmentalist’s attack on fossil fuels, particularly gasoline.

All this big time science, international meetings, thick research papers, dire threats for the future; all of it, comes down to their claim that the carbon dioxide in the exhaust from your car and in the smoke stacks from our power plants is destroying the climate of planet Earth.

What an amazing fraud; what a scam."

"...The battle against fossil fuels has controlled policy in this country for decades.

It was the environmentalist’s prime force in blocking any drilling for oil in this country and the blocking the building of any new refineries, as well. So now the shortage they created has sent gasoline prices soaring. And, it has lead to the folly of ethanol, which is also partly behind the fuel price increases; that and our restricted oil policy.

The ethanol folly is also creating a food crisis throughout the world – it is behind the food price rises for all the grains, for cereals, bread, everything that relies on corn or soy or wheat, including animals that are fed corn, most processed foods that use corn oil or soybean oil or corn syrup.

Food shortages or high costs have led to food riots in some third world countries and made the cost of eating out or at home budget busting for many."

John Coleman
Weather Channel Founder

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/19842304.html

Ethanol and World Wide Food Shortage

"I was also proud to stand up for the ethanol tax exemption when it was under attack in the Congress -- at one point, supplying a tie-breaking vote in the Senate to save it.

The more we can make this home-grown fuel a successful, widely-used product, the better-off our farmers and our environment will be."

Vice-President Al Gore
Third Annual Farm Journal Conference, December 1, 1998
http://clinton3.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OVP/speeches/farmj.html

topperj
"Of course, I'm talking about all those poor people waiting for their new i-phone. The indignity of having to wait for their newest toy, newest obsession, newest gadget to go along with all the other techie toys they just HAVE to have."

Ha ha! I remember when the iPhone first came out, Mike Gallagher had to have one THAT day (he talked about it on his show)! But I have to hand it to him -- at least he made his son stand in line for it.

Al Gore and Democrat Solutions
Democrat Solutions to problems always cause more damage than they 'fix'. Democrat Solutions are always 'knee jerk' reactions to problem and Democrats never measure the results of their 'Solutions'.
------------------------------------------------
"I was also proud to stand up for the ethanol tax exemption when it was under attack in the Congress -- at one point, supplying a tie-breaking vote in the Senate to save it. The more we can make this home-grown fuel a successful, widely-used product, the better-off our farmers and our environment will be."
Al Gore
Third Annual Farm Journal Conference, December 1, 1998

Ethanol subsidies have led to hunger and food riots across the world, by diverting critical farmland from food production to fuel production. While in the Senate, Al Gore, working with fat-cat lobbyists, “saved the ethanol” industry by pushing through big taxpayer subsidies for ethanol.

Artificially-high worldwide production of ethanol now threatens to destroy many forests. And when “the forests are gone, with fewer trees to absorb CO2, the net effect is: worse global warming,” according to a post at Treehugger.

The inflated ethanol production resulting from government subsidies and mandates has already led to soil erosion, deforestation, and environmental damage. And the fall in food production it has caused has triggered food riots in Mexico, Egypt, Haiti, Pakistan, Indonesia, El Salvador, Ivory Coast, and Yemen.

WoW, Democrats really 'fix' things - what a group of genuises.

Retired Geek
Your posts have too much common sense,Liberals only see bla bla bla bla bla bla bla,they can`t reply intelligently to what they don`t understand.

Pancho refute the Numbers
Pancho liberals and Democrats hate 'facts' the same way a Vampire hates a Cross.

What happened
McCain's striaght talk express has got itself side tracked with trying to be more "I feel your pain" than BHO.

The economy is going to get tough because republicans have tried to get energy to the people but the democrats and environmentalists blocked all attempts. Democrats have waited for gas to get to $4.00 until they talk about doing something. Straight talk McCain.

Hang on it's going to be a bumpy ride. America must resolve to have an energy policy that uses the resources here at home and build up clean resources as supplement at the same time. The fact solar and wind are not available all the time, unless we create or own wind, so they need to be used to reduce reliance on other sources and must also be set as less a priority for the time being. It must be done now!
The government must set these priorities and standing around complainging about how difficult things are will not serve anyone. We need to get to work!
Straight talk John.

It has been the hallmark of democrat politics to bring a group of people forward to cry about how mean and awful their situation is. M.J.Fox was the democrat abortion stem cell research tool for getting democrats elected in Congress. McCain must acknowledge the challenges for some but recognize the accomplishments of the majority. Straight talk John.

Retired Geek
"Subject: Democrats Dedicated to High Gas Prices?
Can anyone here posit a reason why Democrats Dedicated to High Gas Prices?

I can not figure out why Democrats see High Gas Prices as the best possible solution for the American economy.

Can someone enlighten us?"

Yes, why WOULD Democrats want high gas prices? I'm a Democrat, and I don't want them. However, I do work for an oil and gas company and we have doubled our drilling in the last year--many of the wells we are drilling would not be economically feasible without the higher prices. So I just wonder if prices did go down, would we back off some of our programs? I would need a reservoir engineer to answer that I think. So higher oil prices are good for me, I guess, because it provides more job security. Bad for me because I drive 20 miles to and from work everyday. I say DRILL IN ANWR! Hell, I'll probably never go there anyway. Then when prices don't go down like they are supposed to we can say "Told you so."

Redlac's 9:49
You bring up some good points, the four you enumerated.

I think the Iraq experience has put the kibosh to any further half-baked(or otherwise)democracy building schemes around the globe and in the mideast, at least thru utilizing our military and draining our treasury.

Only neocon zealots want to replicate the Iraq experience onto other Muslim states anymore.

Most Americans don't.

It may or may not be fair(depending upon your perspective)but suvs and big pickup trucks account for a great majority of the vehicles Americans drive...and since the value of those vehicles has declined recently due to astronomical gas prices, folks may factor that bit of information into their deliberation on whom to vote for this November, along with falling value in the prices of their homes.

Now, I ain't trying to paint a bleak picture for the GOP(for I genuinely do worry about Obama's comments on taxing Americans to deal with global poverty, and his insane remarks about peoples in other nations not being "okay" with where we Americans set our thermostats, or whether we Americans should drive suvs), but with lots of Americans having assets(homes and gas guzzling vehicles)which are declining recently in value, Obama is poised to benefit from this.

Remember, "change", that is Obama's message.

And if McCain represents the "status quo", well, that ain't necessarily good.

Earth to Obama: I don't give a damn if some peoples are "okay" with what I drive, or where I set my thermostat.

It is not their business.

By the way, I am one of those Americans who has a gas guzzling vehicle...a big engine 4 wheel drive Tundra pickup truck, which I dearly love.

And I ain't giving it up for anything.


I've done my whining.
I'm about done with the crying stage now, too. I've accepted the fact that the government is gong to make me pay for other people's mistakes even though I can't afford it. They say I can but having no idea of my particular INDIVIUAL circumstances... oh, well. Life's not fair. It never will be so get on with it as best you can.

I've accepted the fact that my standard of living is decreasing steadily while the standard for those we're bailing out is increasing just as steadily. It's okay. Life's not fair. Now is a good time to remember Job... any chapter, any verse. Or if you don't believe in God and the Bible, think about Karma.

I prefer, for myself, to look at this as a teaching moment. Eventually, everybody has to wake to the reality the only thing in the world you can count on fully is yourself... and possibly your loved ones. In some cases you can't even count upon them.

All you takers out there need to remember that all those you would take from worked hard for what they have and they are going to fight tooth and nail to keep it. Wouldn't you, if you weren't more of a taker than a giver?

Sorry.
I made a few typos in my post. I would correct them here but I believe they are easy to understand in spite of missing letters, etc.

Again sorry for the typos.

Allen
"M.J.Fox was the democrat abortion stem cell research tool for getting democrats elected in Congress."

And don't forget about Nancy Reagan!

Start With The First Post :)

The first Comment was from The Townhall whiner.

King Liberal even Whined about Whining. Typical.

Like Barack Obama, Liberals want/demand that everyone think as they do. In their adolescent fantasy, they are no less than perfect in thought and deed alike. And believe, as Barack and King do, that their omnipotence can be projected upon all the minions of the world.

Narcissism is the driving force behind Barack's supporters. All believe Barack "Thinks" like they do, "wants" what they want, and can create a world in "their" image.

Brace yourselves for the Big Let-down :)




Gramm is proven correct !!!
His statements sent a wave of WHINING through out the political landscape. Every Liberal elected official and every left leaning news media has been whining, crying foul, whining nonstop.

Even Mr. Obama jumped on the whining pile and I thought he was a new kind of leader. Looks like a follower of the constant whiners wing of the party.

Consider
http://www.patriotsrevolt.com Whiteknight........others also....we need a new conservative candidate......

We appear to have turned into ----
As I listen to people, read newspapers & articles, and watch & read the news media I think I see our great nation turning into a bunch of whiners.

Our country, and I think most Republic & Democratic countries, have their economic ups & downs over the centuries. Most have rolled with these and still survive. Why? Because the people / citizens recognized these cycles for what they are. They just worked harder to get through these cycles, suffering through them, and returning to the normal economic conditions.

But today, the prevayors of our economic downfall are preaching this loud and often. It reminds me of the communist technic: tell a lie loud enough and long enough, and eventually the "people" will begin to believe it!
The new far left, Dumbocrats are our new "communist" economic advisors! Ha!

IMHO!

my 2 cents
Gramm ain't no dummy. he said what he said and IMMEDIATELY the msm jumped on it and immediately McCain disagreed with it but the statement and the resulting brouhaha (bib word day here!) did get some ink and hopefully out there in cyberland one or two people might have said "Maybe he's got a point."

And maybe that's why he said it.

I agree with him

(Except, of course for me)

But you already knew that

I have to do the laundry and take the dog for a walk

ttfn

Carlos:
"The first Comment was from The Townhall whiner.

King Liberal even Whined about Whining. Typical."


Carlos is whining about King Liberal whining about Carlos' whining. LOL!

What the whiners don't understand
That even if you took big oil's profit and taxed the he!! out of rich people the money's not going to wind up in thier pockets. It would just give the government more money to waste on stupid programs with most of it going right back to wealthy special interest donors. People making over $250,000 may sound wealthy and sure they're better off than most but most people let their lifestyles float with their earnings.A person making $20,000 in this country is wealthy compared to a very large portion of the world.It's all relative and you don't make public policy based on jealousy of voters.

The whiner thing goes beyond that. The past 20-25 years has been the culture of the permissive parent where kids have whined thier parents to the poor house over clothes, games and cell phones.When these spoiled brats hit the real world and real people don't kneel and bow to their wishes they have hissy fits and extend their free wants to the government.Scools have killed the culture of individualism and self sufficency in favor of anti- corporate.pro government and pro group think. The modern education system gets more self satisfaction over getting kids to accept gays than teaching them tools for life.

Obama was right
People do cling to God during tough times and exactly what's wrong with that? I have more faith in him and myself than crooked smooth talking politicians.I have very little materialism wise because Idon't believe in it but many people obsess over materialistic things and are very unhappy when they don't get them.The liberals condemn God and the Ten Commandments but just think about how cheap government would be if people would just obey them. The associated costs of liberalism has broken the financial back of this country.Gluttony related obesiety alone costs society half a trillion a year alone.Lord only knows what theft related crimes cost right down to hundreds of millions in over billing Medicare.And just look at thegrief Mormons took during Rmney's run.They are among the most law abiding people in this country as a whole yet we somehow celebrate ghetto living.

One more thing to argue about
Is all I see.
The better question is, am I a whiner.
Then who defines what whining is for the nation?

Is there some single voice everyone accepts as the authority?
lol
The very idea is so funny it should be a comedy routine.

There is no bottom or top to define this issue for the nation, only for each of us to define it for ourselves.

That is never going to happen as everyone on the planet believes their own complaints are valid.

And the complainers are the people who disagree with me, as is the whiners.
So all of you who disagree with me, stop your whining and listen, then study to be quiet.
Being quiet takes study, and everyone is missing the class of when and how to be quiet.

Everyone shut up
This should be the law of the land, and enforced equally

Refuting
2 Trillion barrels of oil are estimated in the United States Oil-Shale Reserves (USGS)

http://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2005/5294/

> The largest known deposit is in the Green River Formation in the western United States; it contains an estimated 213 billion tons of in-situ shale oil (about 1.5 trillion U.S. barrels).<

Phil Gramm insulted me
The main reason why my food and fuel bill has soared in recent months, is that the dollar has declined in value. Go check the price of gold as a measure of how little the dollar buys these days.

I didn't ask the Government to do that. I have no say over that. That is the direct result of policies of the Bush Administration and their Federal Reserve appointee, Bernanke. And I don't like it. Gramm calls it "whining"? I call it being disgusted with the job performance of the Bush Administration.

As taxpayers, we do not work for the Government; the Government works for us. We taxpayers are the boss. And when your boss tells you he is dissatisfied with your job performance, you NEVER tell your boss to stop whining. Because he is liable to fire you if you do.

a bit off topic
I saw the poll on here showing 43% of Townhallers have lost a friend or family member to "Obamamania". What does that mean to conservatives?

I suspect the answer I will get is : They are young and dumb and only voting for Obama because it's cool and/or he's black.

But to those that feel this is the case, what does that say about the conservative movement vs. the liberal one?




The worst of fears
Has come upon your head.
You are an insignificant amoeba and your needs and desires mean nothing to anyone else in the world.

Your mother does not care
Your father does not care
Your government does not care
Your bankers does not care
So who cares what you want?

When you grow up and accept this as the way the world is, then you can understand how to judge yourself.
And see if you are just whining when you open your mouth to complain about anything that happens.

Everyone shut up, but me.
I can fix it all, but first off, I must have your attention and you with your ears open and mouth closed.

Get it?

TX Gal
I have only a modest answer on issue of Democrats wanting higher gas prices.

Democrats are totally beholden to the radical environmental agenda, and that agenda holds that fossil fuels degrade Mother Earth with pollutants.

It is almost impossible for the Democrat party to wrest itself from the clutches of these folks.

The hope is for gas prices to become such a problem that alternative sources of fuels will be forced upon us(those that don't pollute).

And radical environmentalists, and their Democratic party accomplices, do not care if the American consumer is inconvenienced, or even suffers.

For theirs is a more moral, more noble, goal...what could be more noble than protecting Mother Earth from us heathans?

Burp.

for RealBlackMan
RealBlackMan asks: "But to those that feel this is the case, what does that say about the conservative movement vs. the liberal one?"

The conservative movement is dead for the moment, because it no longer cares about the hardships and aspirations of ordinary Americans. The asinine elitist comments being made right here on TH about Gramm being right, comments which are even more contemptuous of the American people than Obama's "clinging to guns and religion" comment, are proof of that.

The following is an excerpt from the 1980 GOP Platform, the one that Reagan ran on to win the election in a landslide:

"To those who...say the American people suffer from a national 'malaise,' we respond: The only malaise in this country is found in the leadership of the ... White House and in Congress. Its symptoms are an incompetence to lead, a refusal to change, and a reluctance to act. This malaise has become epidemic in Washington."
-- GOP platform of *1980*
http://tinyurl.com/6422pb

The Republicans of 2008 are now talking about the American people exactly the same way that President Carter talked about them in 1980: "They're lazy, selfish and the main reason things have soured in the country." Even Newt Gingrich noticed this on Fox News a few nights ago.

SteveL
I cannot dispute your point.

Contains some truth.

Have a cigar.

Truth Hurts
Too bad our idiot didn't stand up and support this all too true statement. 4 dollar gas isn't the black death. The ultimate whiners, of course, are the people who can afford his and her hummers. Duh! Do the math. It isn't that big a deal for the single parent driving his/her 6 year old Geo Metro (41 MPG) to Denny's to work. For her bosses boss driving the Hummer, pulling the boat, 80 miles to Possum Kingdom for some fun it IS a big expense. Also, gas is about the only significant purchase that isn't bought with a lot of other items. When the wife/mother goes off to get school clothes and supplies there is just a big bill for everything. Same with food -- the milk, the meat, the soda is all lumped together. Gas is separate and daddy (sorry, guys, but often the biggest whiner in the house) actually has to pay for it himself.

Refuting as requested
>2 Trillion barrels of oil are estimated in the United States Oil-Shale Reserves (USGS)<

The largest known deposit is in the Green River Formation in the western United States; it contains an estimated 213 billion tons of in-situ shale oil (about 1.5 trillion U.S. barrels).
http://pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2005/5294/

Besides being off by a half a trillion in the USGS estimate, you are mistaking reserves with resources.

72% of these resources are on public lands, so you can either eliminate or readjust the estimate by 28% or whatever percentage of private land is unavailable for exploitation.

In the Green River formation, there are thousands of acres currently producing natural gas and traditional crude. Oil and gas production in Utah contributes to meeting local and regional energy needs. Last year, Utah produced 15.7 million barrels of crude oil and 303.6 billion cubic feet of natural gas—enough to heat approximately four million homes. Utah consumed 51 percent of in-state natural gas production, making it a net exporter.

So, subtract these lands from estimated resources for shale oil as well.
Additionally, there are some areas which are logistically impossible to mine or drill, like Douglas Pass.

Reserve estimates relate to what can be realistically recovered. A consensus by experts puts the max number at about 500 billion barrels, 25% of your claim.

Consider yourself refuted.

TX Gal @ reply # 81
In answer to your question, the Socialist-Democrats want higher crude oil prices simply to raise the cost of gasoline, which immediately affects the people.

They want people unhappy and an unhappy electorate will vote out the Republicans. Face it, Socialist-Democrats like Obama can't get elected on merit so they have to do it by manipulation.

I work in the oil patch, too. If the price of crude drops precipitously (as it did in the 1980's), domestic drilling will come to a screeching halt and we will really see a massive recession, not the phony one the MSM has created this year.

RealBlackMan writes:
"I suspect the answer I will get is : They are young and dumb and only voting for Obama because it's cool and/or he's black.

But to those that feel this is the case, what does that say about the conservative movement vs. the liberal one?"
------------------------
If Obama gets elected, it will mean there are more dummies on the left than there are conservatives.

It's in the presentation
Like many politicians Gramm could have have worded his discussion better.

I don't think we are a nation of whiners. We have many whiners among us, but they are not the predominant social force in the US. What we are is somewhat spoiled by our own hard work.

Over the years Americans have worked harder and/or longer hours at our 'jobs' than our counterparts in other parts of the globe. We also work more effeciently than other civilizations because we are technologically and socialogically advanced. As a result we are accustomed to success, health, and a much higher standard of living than most.

So we are not "whiners", we are just spoiled. And there's nothing wrong with being spoiled if you've earned it and are prepared to keep on earning it.

That said, Gramm is right about one thing. The current economy is not in recession. It just isn't growing at the same rate it was during the Bush boom. And the point Gramm was trying to make is that the Bush boom was never identified as a boom because the MSM, which anoints such things, has done its best to not only ignore the Bush boom, but paint it as "soupline America".

Does this mean that the left is a "nation of whiners?" No. It means that the left will do anything to prevent a Republican from succeeding at anything as President. And when one does, as Bush did with the economy, they will do or say anything to tear that success down and/or prevent the success from being perceived as success.

The left is not a nation of whiners as much as they are a nation of traitors. For 8 years they have said and done everything they could think of to destroy our economy and lose the war in Iraq in order to regain their political power. The 'recession' is not real, and not really mental. It is just one more leftist lie.

SteveL
I am probably wrong(God knows enough of my townhall friends have alleged that in their postings to my comments), but Gramm may have been suggesting we are talking ourselves into a worse economic plight than what is actually the case.

But as a most astute poster observed in his 6:28 posting, perception becomes reality.

I personally don't have alot of use for Gramm, the more I learn about him.

5 time student deferment champ from Vietnam war draft era.

Even puts Cheney to shame on that regard.

And that is saying something.

I am probably wrong, but I think Carter's comment about a "malaise" affecting our Beloved Republic was in the context of high gas prices where he said Americans may have to get used to getting by with less, may have to bundle up in sweaters in winter due to high heating fuel costs, implying our best days were behind us.

That went over like a lead balloon, thank God.

But Gramm thinks the malaise, if I may use that term, is all in our head.

McCain has to a little nuts anyway to surround himself with a all-star student deferment champ from the Vietnam era, given what McCain went thru.

Not that Obama is any better.

Can't stand his preaching that I as an American can't place my thermostat at the temperature I desire, or drive a gas guzzler(it may not be okay with the people of the world).

"I am mad as hell and I am not going to take this anymore".

Jefferson's Heirs
Jerabaub, I share your admiration of the John Adams biography. I'm just finishing it and I was struck by the different light cast on Thomas Jefferson. As veep he was trying to undermine John Adams at every turn and his admiration for the guillotine ecstasies of the French Revolution was difficult to understand in terms of how the Democrat Party pictures him as their only saint, except for FDR. The more I thought about it, however, I realized the Democrat Party, called Republican in the book, still works to undermine today's Republicans, who still try to govern in the line of the Adams Federalists, and Jefferson Democrats still admire tyrants and terrorists like Stalin, Fidel Castro, and Che Guevara.

The more things change....




For RealBlackMan
"I suspect the answer I will get is : They are young and dumb and only voting for Obama because it's cool and/or he's black."

This goes to show just how bigotted, arrogant, uniformed, and small-minded you are.

I am a conservative with several very good friends who have 'fallen' for Obama. What you don't get it is that with most conservatives (and many liberals) friendship transcends politics. My friends who 'fell' for Obama were my friends long before we ever heard of Obama (and before Reagan or Clinton became President for that matter). And we will remain friends long after Obama and his failed policies are consigned to the dustbin of history.

It is not we conservatives who are at a loss to explain why our friends have gone for Obama. It is you RealBlackMan, who is at a loss to comprehend how open-minded (and open-hearted)conservatives can retain our love for our friends and maintain it untouched by the ugliness of bloodsport politics.

You inability to comprehend this results from deficiencies in you, not because Obama is some kind of miracle worker (he isn't).

I'm a Cynic, not a whiner
No one on this list really trusts the government any more, so why does everyone seem to take their figures seriously?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???

Politicians direct the bureaucrats. Bureaucrats massage the figures politicians like Gramm use to tell us everything is OK(I know, he is no longer a politician, by while he was, he directed bureaucrats to massage the figures he now quotes).

Reagan famously said "Trust but verify". An example: Govt. reports a loss of 50,000 jobs but at the same time the economy created 60,000. It sounds great. The only problem with that figure is we lost $50 an hour jobs and created $8 per hour jobs.

With all the massaging that has been done, we will never have depression era "official" unemployment, we will never have "official" recession requirements, our country will never be in "official" trouble.

No Senator Gramm, I am not a whiner, just a cynic.





What a lot of Conservatives Really think
Phil Gramms statement while political tone deaf is exactly what conservatives think. 4.00 a gallon gas too much for you get a second job. Lost you job find another one. Lose you house that is your fault. All of the objective statistics say the economy is doing well so if it is not working for you that is your fault.

Conservatives have a simple prescription. Cut taxes, and cut government services including indutry oversight.

If as a voter you don't like this and vote for Obama then you are a cry baby.

RBM.
Other than being young, dumb and stupid, can you give us any other reason to vote for Obama? And please don't tell me "because he has an attractive wife." That would be an obvious lie.

Most of the whining
That I hear is coming out of DC. You folks want immigration laws enforced, you are a bunch of bigots and xenophobes.

You folks want domestic energy. We can't drill our way out of this. Buy yourself a mule.

You folks don't want to bail out the banks. We must help those suffering bankers because all they did wrong was listen to the fools in DC.

The fact is, those like Gramm are the whiners of this country. They can't understand why the people wont silently sit by while the likes of Gramm and others sell our country to the highest bidder.

We should all silently embrace their wiping of their collective patoots with our constitution, else we be labeled whiners.

I should shut up, I'm starting to sound like a whiner!

The Bush boom?
>The current economy is not in recession. It just isn't growing at the same rate it was during the Bush boom.<

Don't you really mean the Bush bubble, similiar to the dot.com bubble during Clinton's term?

We saw a boom because everybody and their brother was allowed to buy a house whether they were qualified to buy any house at all, or was able to buy about double the house they could actually afford. The hope was that appreciation would continue to allow for refinancing or flipping for a profit.
It's really no different than corporations' stock selling in the hundreds when there has never been a profit and has virtually no assets.
It's all based on speculation, and that's what creates a bubble.

Wiseone
Ronald Reagan when running for President ask the American People are you better off then you were four years ago. You will not seen a single Republican Candidate asking that question nor did you hear that asked in 2004.

I think if you asked most Americans including many Republicans whether they would like to go back the economy that we had when Clinton was our President the answer would be an overwhelming yes.

Bushes economic policies have sure been great for people like Phil Gramm and Paris Hilton, but for Middle Class Folks and many small businesses the Bush Years have been at best a roller coaster. The deficit is threw the roof and the dollar is weaker and wages of workers have been flat while CEO have seen their salaries balloon.

There are more people without health insurance than 8 years ago. I won't even talk about the very recent housing bust and 4.00 a gallon gas or the 20 increase in the price of food in the just the last few months. But Phil Gramm has been doing well and maybe you have too.

jerseyvet
I am so glad you enjoyed McCullough's biography on Adams.

It is a great book. I hope people read it.

Although completely different, it was as great a read as Whittaker Chamber's "Witness", altho most folks won't find the material from the Chamber's book all that compelling.

Anyway, while I am somewhat ignorant of the political currents during the formation of our Beloved Republic, Jefferson, as you are most aware, was very much an anti-federalist, in fear of the power of the king, of the magistrate, of the Executive, and far more deferential to the Legislative body.

That is why he fought with federalists such as Adams and Hamilton.

Perhaps that is why he was so willing to initially excuse the excesses of the French Revolution and and its hatred of royalty and kings.

But today, I share Jefferson's fear of a strong executive. I fear in the aftermath of 9/11, almost ANYTHING Bush deems he wants in terms of "fighting terrorism", he gets.

No questions asked.

By the way, I approve of retroactive immunity from lawsuits of the telecoms.

But on warrantless wiretaps of Americans, some judicial power, empowered 24 hrs a day if necessary, should maek that call. Not the executive.

I am willing to grant Bush some latitude, but I simply do not trust him.

Nor would I trust Clinton, or any other president with such power.

Not much whining in my group
But plenty of pissing and moaning.

Pissing because every time there's a solid plan to tackle one of our enduring problems, the left blocks the way. The watermelons have blocked affordable energy independence for decades. The entitlement crowd blocks meaningful SS/Medicare reform. Trial lawyers block tort reform. Any number of groups block real health care reform and instead seek merely to shift the burden for paying for the whole mess. The liberal education lobby and teachers' unions block education reform. And each of these obstructionists is supported, aided and abetted by the liberals and Democrats (and, to be honest, a good many Republicans) in Washington and the state legislatures.

Pissing because our elected representatives represent their own ambitions and we their constituency are but an afterthought. Pissing because no matter how hard we work to change that status quo, voters keep returning the same sorry bunch to government and the political parties spurn attempts at reform from without while filling their ranks with party hacks from within. Pissing because at this critical juncture in history, we have to decide between two of the worst candidates in presidential electoral history.

Moaning because after years of raising and educating our children, paying our bills and taxes (and at confiscatory rates), exercising responsible home ownership, seeing to our own health care needs and carefully planning for our retirements, we're faced with the prospect of bailing out the millions who have not acted responsibly and having increased confiscation of our hard-earned dollars so that others can climb aboard Uncle Sam's gravy train.

But whining? No, no whining, we're adults after all and understand the many pitfalls of democracy. Perhaps we're not whining because none of us wants anything from government beyond
those things it's Constitutionally directed to provide except to stay off our freakin' backs.

My Mommy won't let me post anymore today
Sayonara.

So who buys gas
And thinks about how well the nation is doing?
How well Wall Street is doing?

I think about how much gas I need to put in the tank and what it costs.

Never once thought how much profit is being made, or how much of it is tax, I just think about how much money I have, to buy the gas I need.

Later, when I come to TH and see an article over the price of oil, the tax and profits, I think about it, and join in the whining.

That is if I think there is a problem with the costs and taxes, and this is whining.

To live in this society and pay the bills for most of us takes a vehicle to get about.

I also need water and pay for it too, but I have never seen any article on TH about the rising costs of water due to any government tax and restriction placed on drilling for it.

Same procedure for both.
You ever wonder what would happen to the cost of oil if we did not have a government?

Imagine no laws in existence prohibiting or taxing it.
A free market
Well, we have no free market and looks like we never will, as long as we have bosses in government like Mr Graham who has no problem keeping up with the costs.
He gets costs of living benefits yearly doesn't he?
Along with all his health care, and a power to raise his income by taxing us peons, if costs go up.
I can see how America is doing well through his eyes and what he has to look at







I love reading Jefferson
jere writes:


Anyway, while I am somewhat ignorant of the political currents during the formation of our Beloved Republic, Jefferson, as you are most aware, was very much an anti-federalist, in fear of the power of the king, of the magistrate, of the Executive, and far more deferential to the Legislative body.

=======
You might find this interesting in understanding Jefferson somewhat in his views on republican government and democracy.


"Societies exist under three forms, sufficiently distinguishable.

1. Without government, as among our Indians.

2. Under governments, wherein the will of everyone has a just influence; as is the case in England, in a slight degree, and in our States, in a great one.


3. Under governments of force; as is the case in all other monarchies, and in most of the other republics.


To have an idea of the curse of existence under these last, they must be seen.

It is a government of wolves over sheep.

It is a problem not clear in my mind that the first condition is not the best.

But I believe it to be inconsistent with any great degree of population.

The second state has a great deal of good in it.

The mass of mankind under that, enjoys a precious degree of liberty and happiness. It has its evils, too; the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject.

But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. ME 6:64



for jerabaub
jerabaub claims: "we are talking ourselves into a worse economic plight than what is actually the case."

If Gramm believes that, then he doesn't deserve his Ph.D. in economics.

Because the idea that we can "talk ourselves" into a recession is bull. When has that EVER happened before in history?

Businesses have a bottom line--profits must exceed expenses. They don't start laying off workers and closing down factories just because of something they heard on MSNBC or read in the New York Times. They do it when their own revenue declines.

For decades now, consumer spending has been fueled by mortgage debt--home equity lines of credit and the like. Those debt lines are now drying up due to the credit crunch. That, combined with the soaring prices of food and fuel, means consumers must spend less on non-necessities.

And the dollar started declining and the price of oil started rising after 2002, due to the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the resulting instability in the Middle East and the massive U.S. Federal budget deficits.

See
http://tinyurl.com/6xmn2t
and
http://tinyurl.com/69a65e

You don't need "whining" or "talking to yourself" to explain such phenomena. You don't need to psychoanalyze the American public to understand what went wrong. And you sure as hell can't blame the MEDIA for the sheer stupidity of Bush fighting a global war without paying for it.

Ignorance vs expertise
The great limitation of the internet is that any crackpot ignoramus can advocate for his opinion, as if it might be worth something. Such rubes don't have the ability to respect the expertise of a man like Gramm who is a PhD economist who spent his whole life teaching or legislating for the benefit of others. Fortunately, Credit Suisse can recognize talent when dopes cannot, and he is now a successful investment banker in his old age. To argue that a man who has been successful in three careers is somehow out of touch is just ridiculous.

Cry Me A River
Now I've heard it all. NASCAR fans whining about gas prices.http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9862338?IADID=Search-www.sltrib.com-www.sltrib.com

Now, after gas prices have increased 39 percent in the past year and pushed the cost of filling a recreational vehicle tank as high as $500, more fans are staying home.

Ticket revenue at Speedway Motorsports Inc.'s Las Vegas, Atlanta and Bristol, Tenn., tracks declined 5.1 percent in the first quarter.
Race teams are also battling increased costs for diesel and jet fuel, the two highest-priced transport fuels. Semi-trailers, or haulers, move racecars to tracks across the country. Most teams also provide diesel-powered motor coaches for drivers, owners and sponsors. The top teams use private jets and helicopters to ferry personnel to the tracks.




Another out of touch rich guy!
Phil Gramm and John McCain don't have a clue as to the plight of many ordinary citizens who are out of work, who are on the verge of losing their homes, have maxed out their credit cards, can't get health insurance, and generally are missing out on the good life and the American dream. They have legitimate complaints about the direction that America is heading in. Free market capitalism has run amok in three market "bubbles" in the eight year term of President Bush. What is scary about Gramm is he is the chief economic advisor to McCain, whose wife was on the board of Enron (economic terrorists), and who put in the "Enron loophole" one of the principal reasons oil is so high today. Gramm needs to limit his remarks to his country club buddies and colleagues at UBS. He doesn't know anything about real Americans.

For JMO51 (Conclusion)
Whether you're a whiner, spoiled rotten, or a useful idiot of the left, you are a perfect example of what Gramm is talking about. Tell, are you suffering from the Bush economy, or can you only continue to cite unspecified 'others' who are down and out?

Showing yourself a crackpot too

Will not eliminate the problems of whining, if it be whining.

===
ClaireSolt expertise
The great limitation of the internet is that any crackpot ignoramus can advocate for his opinion, as if it might be worth something. Such rubes don't have the ability to respect the expertise of a man like Gramm who is a PhD economist who spent his whole life teaching or legislating for the benefit of others. Fortunately, Credit Suisse can recognize talent when dopes cannot, and he is now a successful investment banker in his old age. To argue that a man who has been successful in three careers is somehow out of touch is just ridiculous.
====
ts:
To comment on how much oxygen exists in the earth's atmosphere, means nothing to a man underwater and drowning.

For Mr Graham to be a PHD commenting on how well the Nation is doing to a person out of a job will also have no effect on his problems.

So even if the Nation is said to be doing well in spite of trade deficits, national debt, devaluation of the "dollar" through inflation, influx of aliens taking hourly wage down to Mexico's level by a PHD, it really does nothing but give more opportunity to whine.



Yes, we have become a nation of whiners,
BUT with with very good reasons. Just point the finger to Washington. They have screwed up our currency, created a energy crisis, allowed the mortgage scam. Do not fear though, just wait, they can always make it worse !

Out of touch..
I ate at cracker Barrel this morning and as my wife and I were leaving a caravan of RV's, expensive motorboats, ski dos and motorcycles all being towed by large expensive pickup trucks pulled into the parking lot. Plates were all from Ohio...the recession must be hitting those guys real hard. Gramm is right...you bunch of whino liberals.

A nation of Whiners & sdeakins..........
Well I would agree and disagree on it.
It really has to do with wether or not your A) Working good, B) Still ahead of the payment game, C) Retired and set financially, D) Came up north from the South in WWII worked in all the higher paying Union Jobs, set your kid to work there also and reaped every advantage you could lie your way into. The Economy is not bad.
But if your bouncing between one lower paying position to the other and the payments are slipping to pay one this month not pay it next, or you've been lied out of your work by other greedy twits, then the Economy Stinks to high heaven.
Most Ohioians do not travel like sdeakins said, only those who call WV, KY, TN, NC, AL, MS or GA their home and still own a bit of land there. You see this was the great migration of WWII 4F'ers that took jobs away from locals and returning Vets.

Biggest Whiners are.....................
The younger generation of those 4F'ers I spoke earlier about. See they have those Escallades, F350-450 tandoms and Avalanches & Tahoes that get 10 -12 MPG, have that $250,000 or better home, have 9 to 14 credit cards, own two or three off roaders, the $26K Seado or Typhon or Mastercraft, or the Bayliner that has two 600 CC outboards and get no mpg per gallon.
These brats have had a life style handed to them by their parents , the parents employers and the public that says I want it now, now now.
Brats always whine it is their nature and they get away with it.

The American Empire
A little while ago I finished reading "Empire: the Rise and Demise of the British World Order and the Lessons for Global Power" by Niall Ferguson. The main point I got from my reading is that the Brits lost their empire because of the tremendous expenses of two world wars. In fact they owed the U.S. billions of dollars.

Obviously, even a staunch conservative must admit we can't spend billions on armed forces spread all over the world and continue to have a burgeoning economy. We are not exempt from the same fate as the British Empire and part of the economy woes today and the fall of the dollar is because we have to borrow too much from other nations.

Maybe our only recourse is to let the rest of the world go to hell (most don't seem to care) and build a Fortress America, ready to defend ourselves not with millions under arms, but with nuclear weapons.

I'm not a liberal but admit we can't defend the whole world, or even part of it, all by ourselves and still prosper here at home.



animosity misdirected
mr mccain could redirect his animosity toward the liberal, pinko, socialist, num-nuts who are the true whiners.

JMO51 is a loser
He laments in his 1:01 post that conservatives think if you lose your job, you should find another one. Well, duh. What should one do numbskull? Sit at home and cry? Wait for the government to send a check? Numbskull JMO says it's not cool to get another job when gas is at $4.00 a gallon. How about the fact that another is available to help mitigate the financial burden? The real tragedy would be that no jobs were available to be had at any price! Oh JMO probably thinks jobs grow on trees, just like money does.
Numbskull JMO says the conservatives think if you lose your house it's your fault. No matter, it's up to the individule to rectify the situation anyway possible. It's your life afterall.
Numbskull JMO is a perfect example of the convoluted thinking that occurs in the mind of a loser and why they will remain exactly that. They won't figure out how to take control of the situation and are happy to let someone else, anyone else be in charge of their life. How pathetic.

Pseudo black person
Yes, you are off topic. So, GO AWAY!! Your liberal tactics of changing the subject is not wanted here today.

Dump McCain Pronto!
McCain can't make a headline in a newsroom!

Even here on TH 99% of the 2008 election stories are about who? Snob-bama!

Just listen to McCain give a speech. You need a bottle of No-Doze to stay awake.

Obama will squeeze 75,000 Obamies into Invesco Field while McCain can't pay enough fans to fill the seats behind the podium at a photo-op!

I don't mind losing but I want to go down fighting and McCain isn't fighting - he's tanking like a ringer in a fixed fight.

If you don't want to live under a Snob-bama idiocracy, then...

Dump McCain Now!

Dump McCain Pronto!
McCain can't make a headline in a newsroom!

Even here on TH 99% of the 2008 election stories are about who? Snob-bama!

Just listen to McCain give a speech. You need a bottle of No-Doze to stay awake.

Obama will squeeze 75,000 Obamies into Invesco Field while McCain can't pay enough fans to fill the seats behind the podium at a photo-op!

I don't mind losing but I want to go down fighting and McCain isn't fighting - he's tanking like a ringer in a fixed fight.

If you don't want to live under a Snob-bama idiocracy, then...

Dump McCain Now!

gayle
My point behind so many conservatives is a miseratble uncaring indivudual. And when you call on it they resort to name calling.

My point is that Conservatives don't see it as their mission to help people in need. If you get sick without insurance die.

Survival of the fittest and all that. Of course conservative administrations will do any thing to bail out corporate failures but if it is the individual you are on you own. Suck it up and deal with it.

If your kid gets sick from a lead based toy made in china what did you expect for such a cheap price. Government should not be there to make your life better.

I have seen what 8 years of your kind of governance gets you and frankly a majority people are saying no. Lets see how much you whine on November 4 when Obama is elected and the Dems ioncrease their majority.

wiseone
It is Gramm and the GWB administration that cites statistics. I dare you to ask your friends who are conservatives to answer the question are you (not someone else) better off than you were when Clinton was in office. The Caveat being that if they answer yes then they should vote for a change and that would be to elect OBAMA. If they think they are better off under GWB they should vote for McCain because his economic plan would mirror that of GWB.

No excuses or rationalizations just a simple question. Are you Wiseone better off than you were under Clinton. Are you Gayle better off than you were under Clinton?

retired old geek
I would love to hear someone from the NY Slimes say something similar to the 1953 toast.
As for Gramm, for the most part he is correct. BUT, coming from him a former Senator with his lifetime retirement benifit paid for by you and me and his lifetime free healthcare paid for by you and me. And whatever other perks paid for by the taxpayers of this country. Those words coming from him only serve to aggravate the rest of us out her struggling to get by. Now if a group ;of GI's called us whiners and told us to get off our butts and take care of business it might have made sense. Gramm is part of the problem we are whining about.
While I am not sure his solution will cure our problems at least Texas T. Boone Pickens is puttin his money where his mouth is. He is tryin while many just whine.

Jm051
If it were not for the survival of the fittest, we would not be a nation today.
Imagine if you will when NObama gets into office and he continues to keep his head in the sand and "negotiates" with the Iranian mullahs to the point that they finish their nukes and then set off a few here in America. Then it will be only the fittest that survive. You will be the one whining while the fit stand over you while you die.

I'm not leaving
I agree with jerseyvet's post 131. You make a very sensible argument.

@Bobby in FL
You are not the first and wont be the last to askk that I leave the site. Sorry this is still America and I can go whereever I want. Shunning people who dont agree with you makes you look small minded and petty. I enjoy looking at things from a different point of view. Too bad the same cant be said about you.
To each his own i guess.....

How did we get McCain?
I believe your amazement goes to the heart of the most important question regarding elections in the US which is: Does the US have free and fair elections? Or are they fixed?

There were many questions about the veracity of the New Hampshire primary in particular - especially on the Dem side.

I personally feel that McCain is a stooge; a palooka; a stiff; a guy who knows he's gonna lose; knows he's supposed to lose.

Why would he do it?

Who knows, but it gives him a chance to take a victory lap around the nation, visit a few foreign dignitaries AND help put a DEMOCRAT in office.

Other than that your guess is as good as mine as to why a guy would go to all the trouble of winning the nomination only to run a campaign that couldn't get him elected dog-catch

retired geek
Why dems want high gas prices? It will help their candidate enormously come election time. If there was a dem in the white house right now, they'd get right to work on it.
It appears their own majority is not threatened this year, and they are confident that Bush can be blamed.

stevel
Your (1:45pm) post:
If you think that perception doesn't affect the economy you can think again.
The Great Depression would not have been nearly so bad had there not been panic.
Consumers stop spending. Investors pull back.
It has an effect.

Aside to retired geek
You are a treasure of information.
I saw in the Weekly Standard that Charles Krauthammer is looking for a research assistant. You'd make a great one.

VIC
Thanks for the link. It's informative. Gramm's message was largely about our strengths, and the fact that that doesn't sell newspapers.

--------------
I am sick of Obama's message (we are oppressed) and like McCain's general attitude, which is inwaveringly positive about American strengths.
Hard to hear that message above all the whinin' tho.

Bobby
Bad example. During the Bush years Iran has grown stronger. This is in part because the counter balance to power in the region Saddam has been eliminated and replaced with a government with close ties to Iran. Mismanagement in Iraq has damaged the perception of the US military as an effective force and enboldened Iran.

Just a few years after Iran takes our hostage the Reagan Administration illegally sells that same terrorist regime arms in order to finance an anti-communist movement in South America.

If we do have an attack from Iran the person who will be most to Blame is GWB.


Nation of Whiners - You Bet
Maybe it's because I'm from Texas, but I knew exactly what Phil Gramm meant!

Let's see! The dimmies whine about G.W.B. The libs whine about conservative government. Illegals whine about "rights". Everybody whines about cost of fuel. Congress whines about wanting to be a nanny state and need for expanded government. Social spongers whine for more give-a-ways. Politicians whine about American citizens disapproval of amnesty. On and on!!!!!

It did not surprise me that McCain "didn't get it"! When some 80% of American citizens rebelled against the comprehension immigration crap, Mac only admitted, "I got it! They want to secure the borders first." If BHO gets elected, the ones who elected him will whines because they got what they asked for, and the rest of us will whine because ...

In 2006, we got a dummie Congress - with a resulting single digit "approval rating". 90+% of Americans are whining (including those who voted in those incompetent politicians. Conservatives whine because they are "blocked' by prissy Pelosty. dummies whine because they don't have enough members to cram socialism down our throats. Almost everyone whines that America is going in the wrong direction. EVERYONE, in one way or another, whines about border security (the fence, etc.).

Sen. Phil Gramm was absolutely correct, and Mac threw him under the bus.

As a result, all of us can "see" negative possibilities for our country, and we are deeply concerned. I reckon that can effectively be classified as "mental recession".

Bobby
By the way are you better off then you were when Clinton was in office?

Jm051
I am infinately better off than when Bill "is" Clinton was in office.

Jm051
Yep you will be whining when the ones who have survived and continue to survive after they have put a bullet in the head of the weaker ones including YOU.

THERE WILL BE A CHANGE

.....Yes FAUXBLACKPERSON & JMO51 ...there will be a big change if OBAMBI wins the election ...

.....White folks will find out what it is like to get b*tch slapped .....COLOSSUS

BTW JM ...is 51 your age, the year you were born or your IQ? ...

.....postscript: If you want to review some world class olympic whining ...replay the tapes of the Katrina aftermath ...

LMAO at baseballdoc
Baseball Writes:

.....White folks will find out what it is like to get b*tch slapped
-------------------------
Another intellegent post from the doc!


So that's what people have been so scared of if Obama wins the election.

I'm sure Americans...
wouldn't whine, if they had Gramm's money. I lost respect for Gramm when I saw him on a C-Span program endorsing a prescription drug benefit for his elderly mother, years before it actually became law. Americans will justifiably whine when they see their standard of living go down by way of spendthrift politicians.

Sunthe1
I usually read your posts because they are so stimulating (make me angry, frustrated, or filled with incredulity)! Rarely do I AGREE with you.

However, you post #144 has filled me with admiration for your insightful statement about attitude effecting business and people. Simply brilliant (and I am NOT being facetious).

That is exactly what PG meant concerning
"mental recession". I, too, am suffering from this mental recession. Because of the cost of gas, I limit my driving to necessary trps. Because of cost of food, I eat ONE meal per day, etc.

Thank you for stating the situation so simply yet succinctly.

Phil Gramm
He's left his fingerprints on some of the worst economic debacles in U.S. history. He was a champion of energy deregulation, which gave us Enron and blackouts and price gouging. He was a champion of deregulating the savings-and-loan industry, the bailout of which cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars. And his leadership on banking deregulation helped create the current sub-prime mortgage crisis. Republicans love to talk about Obama's lack of experience. I'll take fresh blood over Gramm's kind of track record any day of the week.

Sure we are whiners
but look what we do, we just keep voting in the same old witch doctors that tell us what we want to hear (until they get in), take Obama, he says one thing and then does another.

With McCain, you will hear what he thinks and not always what you want to hear, his change you can believe in, a vote for McCain is a vote for our Constitution, lower taxes and less government, now that is change.

Obama will promise us the moon and then if he gets in UPPPPPPPPP goes our taxes to pay for everything we didn't think would happen under his watch, thats because he tells us nothing and people read into what he says and thinks it about them and their problem. Think again my friends, think again;

Joy

dave
I apologize for causing you stress. You should probably scroll by, cause I really can't see how I can stop insulting liberals, though I try not to be nasty about it.

In the post you reference, I was actually not talking about the article/Phil Gramm. I was responding to a previous poster who seemed to be saying that the economy is strictly bottom-line, and numbers based (like a personal checking account for instance) and perception has no effect. I'm no economist, but I don't think that's true. The economy is a dynamic thing, and is driven by all sorts of forces, perception being one of them..

I certainly didn't intend to infer that the costs of food and gas were perception-driven. I was referring to things like the stock market mainly.

Cheers.

"INDEPENDENCE PARTY VOTERS"
Modern Democrat Liberals fancy themselves as “Progressives” with or without reference to the I.W.W Wobbles of the 1930’s. The only distinction between a Liberal and a Progressive is that the Liberal prefers to just jump directly off the cliff while the Progressive wants to fly off by Pogo-Stick. This is an apparent example of the current political landscape.

The ever creative Democrats have a broadband allegiance spanning Labor Front Blue Collar working Americans stretched to the intellectual college formulated Anti-War Leftist “Progressives” while the Republicans Party stands naked shone detached from its Conservative mantle. There is an opportunity here to expand identity and possible detach from the stagnant Republican Party hierarchy by forming the “Independence Party.” The manifesto measurement scale of the Independence Party would be determined by the increase or decrease in independence; ergo, would exploring for domestic petroleum based energy products increase or decrease our nation’s independence; or, having the government provide universal health insurance coverage will increase or decrease personal independence and freedom; or, to allow for the public licensing of “Marriage” by two people of the same sex will increase or decrease independence and responsibility as a society; or, would a flat-tax or value-added tax (VAT) scheme be a more “Independence” means to maintain government solvency and operations. By definition if the program or proposition increases independence it should be accepted, if it decreases independence it should fail.

Whiners and Ingrates
None of the candidates nor their surrogates are saying anything that truly matters.

Obama gets a 24-7 running campaign being run for free on the part of his campaign. The Mainstream Propaganda Machine, aka Mainstream News Networks, give Obama free adverstising on every report they make. Obama might as well keep those hundreds of millions from Corporate and other contributors and not waste it on campaingning. When Obama or Michelle are not The Headline News Item, they are Being Guests on The View or Oprah shows. If ever in history has the Mainstream Media been the Cheerleader and Propagandist for a Candidate for the Presidency, it has been this time around and this Do Nothing, Know-Nothing, with a very Questionable Background, Moron, Obama has been shoved down our throats 24-7 by the Mainstream Media. And on the other hand, McCain is the most mealy-mouthed candidate I have ever seen. He will not defend himself nor the country against the onslaught of slander, lies and maliciousness of The Media, Of Obama or of Obama's Surrogate Propagandists.

It is time the Silent Majority turn out in record numbers and Vote McCain this time around, but let him know this is his last chance to shape up or we ship him out next time around, and meantime start grooming Jindal of Louisiana. Jindal is the only politician I have heard about in a long time that is carrying out what I believe in. His first official duty as Governor of Louisiana about 6 months ago was to Begin Downsizing his states Bureaucracy by abolishing the state's Department of Labor, and has other worthless bloated bureaucracies targeted. This is what we need on the Federal Level.

Jerome Ennis, MAed in Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Abolish U.S. Dept. of Education
Fully Successful Socialist Schools. They Dumb Down the Kids, and teach them to be Little Government Stooges, with no Values, but become Great Whiners and Ingrates.


But, if you look at it from the Socialists standpoint and what they, the Socialists desire, it is a complete success. We need, as a nation, to do what Bobby Jindal, Jr. Governor of Louisiana just did. As soon as he came into office, his first official duty was to Dissolve and Abolish the State Department of Labor. He has other agnecies and departments targeted.

Every state should follow suit.

The Nation Needs to follow suit. BEGIN WITH ABOLISHING THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND ALL IT'S MANDATES, POLICIES, RULES, ETC. THEN ABOLISH ALL THE STATE DEPARTMENTS OF EDUCATION WHICH HAVE BEEN MANDATED TO BECOME CLONES OF THE FEDERAL SYSTEM

We have too much and too big a Government at every level. The National Model Of Socialism has been Flooded Down to the State and Local Governments.

Government needs to get back to the jobs We Elect Them To Do. That is provide For Essential Government Services such as Military, Police, and Infrastructure maintenance, and insuring National Sovereignty and Border and Port Integrity. We need to make sure that people and products, especially food products are not going to compromise National Security, Safety and Health of U.S. citizens. Not provide any particular expertise on how to run an oil company or whether or not athletes take steroids, or whether or not the government will issue condoms, birth control pills, and/or abortions of 12 and 13 year old kids.

Yes, Begin as Jindal in Louisiana did, disband Government Bureaucracies who waste more money running and maintaining their particular empires, than they do in actually solving or helping in areas they are charged with.

Liberalism is a Mental Illness
This particular type of Mental Illness is called Delusional. The Liberal Democrats have been telling people for so long that there really is a Free Ride and A Free Lunch and A Free Life that is free of stress and work. The government, in the form of Socialist Bureaucracies, has made these delusional folks believe that all the Government Has To Do To Create New Wealth is To Print More Money. Well, that is where the problem has come in. These Socialists have been printing more money that is backed by NOTHING NOW EXCEPT DEBT TO FOREIGN NATIONS.

Then, these same Delusional Politicians, such as Obama tells the deadbeats who live off the government that He, The Messiah, is going to even create more Worthless Bloated Bureaucracies, and is going to Pay For It by Taxing Those Evil White Or Black rich guys, and Gut The Military. Now, is this Delusional or What?

All you dems who are just chafing at the bits to get your favorite Socialist elected so that they can continue to take from the working class who pay taxes and give to you for sitting home collecting welfare stamps, food stamp debit cards, etc. and promising to give you free day care for two year olds, etc. and have never met a criminal or illegal that they don't call a victim, you Better Wake Up. Have you looked around your neighborhoods lately? The country is looking more and more like a Third World Country. You educated warm and fuzzy folks, who probably do work and pay taxes, you better wake up too, and start voting with your brain and not your warm and fuzzy feelings. We are 10 Trillion Dollars in Debt. Rent Comes Due Eventually! The Party is Over. Have You Seen The Gas Pumps. America Has no more free rides.

Gramm is right but also wrong
Gramm is right that we're not in a recession. He's also right that things are basically good. But they could be a lot better. Both candidates are cynical, and so is Gramm. They all favor amnesty for illegal aliens and restrictions on energy production.

Things are not bad here, but they could be a lot better. Illegal aliens cost us tons of money, both in lost wages and in the taxation it takes to support the free health care and education the aliens and their kids get. And if they are given amnesty, they can go on the full set of social benefits, and will not longer bother to work those same jobs at the same wages, and there will be pressure from business to let in more illegals.

And energy costs do cut into our lifestyles.

By not supporting drilling in ANWR and the Bakken deposits, and not supporting use of shale oil and processing gasoline from coal, McCain and Obama are condemning us to higher energy costs for the indefinite future.

They are also going to cost us money with their campaigns against carbon emissions.

These guys are selling our birthrights. Yes, we're not in a recession, but these things do hurt us and we have a right to demand better policies on immigration and energy. That is not whining.

Whining Didn't Happen Over Night
The nightmare began in the 70's with women's lib activists opposing family life; Viet Nam war; and the invasion of immigrants from Asia; and later on everyone else who built their temples and mosques on our soil and some refuse to assimilate; increased divorce, latch key kids and the infiltration of guns and drugs into schools. By the 80's, we dumped prayer in school and brought in more violent video games for kids to watch and more drugs & suicidal rock songs. By the 90s, there was more drugs; more drunk driving arrests; more free sex; condoms for kids; parental alienation by the courts/states; NAFTA; open borders; and political sexual scandals and downsizing military defense; by the 90s there was drugs, DUI's, violent video games, pono movies on TV & on the internet; kids having abortions at startling rates; child molestations & kidnapping increased; gangs, guns at schools, and less religion; attack on the Ten Commandments, the Bible, God, and Judeo-Christians, contaminated food & water; and banks going bye bye & corporations because we didn't want to get involved in our government's business; and now we have the fear of a recession-depression - So, stop whining and clean up your act and your minds and the media and the way kids dress and save them from disease & pain; fight back for decency, morality, integrity, character, principles, and then get on your knees and thank God before He's completely kicked out of our country - Thank God for being born and for living in the best country in the world where we can still pray and figure out problems and speak out about how to get back on track!

two points
1. This is the twentieth century's version of "let them eat cake." To preserve the stability of the Republic, the GOP needs to come back to reality, because the Democrats refuse.

2. "to new high’s"

I'll click on a banner -- use the quarter to hire an editor.

Bobby
Congrats on coming out ahead after 8 years of GWB. Too bad most people don't agree with you. That is why the Republican Brand is in the toliet.

Greyhawk
For the eight years Clinton is in office, the decifit goes down and the incomes of working class prople's go up. Welfare reform has more people leaving the welfare roles than anytime in our history.

GWB and the Republicans take over. The deficit balloons, earmarks increase, we have a recession and then a weak recovery, plants in the midwest are closed and he jobs go abroad. Our country is attacked while our leaders focus on an old enemy and ignore the warning signs of experts.

We go after the culprits but just as we are making progress our leaders send us off to fight a war in the wrong country. Kinda like if Canada attacked us and we go to war with Mexico. Things go really badly because of incompetence. People are assigned to high level decision making not because of their qualifications but because they carry a letter from some Right wing think tank. Predicably they screw up. In the meantime the real enemy is still on the lose.

New Orleans and the Mississippi coast is drowning but the president and most of his staff are on vacation. This President takes more of them they any leader in recent history. He is cycling and people are dying.

The country turns sour on the man, his approval ratings are the lowest in recorded history, even lower than Nixons in the height of watergate.

But he still has a few supporter still holding onto the dream of a permenent Conservative Majority. They are bitter and angry and resort to calling their critics dummys, commies and the mentally ill. Even their own Republican Party has abandoned them by nominating a trojan horse in the hopes of squicking by and saving their own necks.


Absolutely
You don't have enough money to pay for a house you couldn't afford?

Get off your butt and Work. Go to school. No one owes you a damn thing.

You can't afford your 3 kids from 3 different sperm donors?

Why did you have them when you knew you couldn't afford them? Close your legs, spoiled selfish tramp. I am not financially liable for your stupidity. You and your 3 worthless baby daddies should be forced to work 16 hours daily until your kids are 18 to pay for them.

You can't afford to retire?

What? You REALLY didn't think you would get old someday? Wow. How did someone so short-sighted manage to survive so long.

Exception...catastrophic illness/accident unrelated to lifestyle choices. Get insurance. Charity can help. Where are your kids?

My wife and I take care of my mom, my grandmother, and her mother who is disabled by a cva. They live with us and we manage. That is what responsible families do. I work 80+ hour weeks every week, my wife also works full time. It's hard. So What? We love our parents. Who ever said life was easy? It isn't and it shouldn't be.

Quit your damn whining and grow up!


My parents had something to whine about.
My parents were both born in the first decade of the 20 th. century. They were children during WWI & the world wide epidemic of 1918. My mom came from Italia in 1920 with barely the clothes on her back, my dad worked on the railroad from nearly childhood because his dad died, young. They married during the depression, raised children during WWII, the last one, me, coming in 1951. They most definitely had whining rights. Whining rights are not inheritable. My generation never had half the challenges and dangers of theirs, We grew up during the 50's, maturity during the fat, spoiled 60's with one minor war going on half a planet away and a few enemies, like communist Russia that could have attacked but never did. Yet we whine and feel sorry for ourselves, though we have had rather minor challenges, certainly minor compared to two World Wars, a major epidemic & depression. My major challenge right now is losing weight and controlling my spending so I can save money!
Modern Liberalism is making adult babies out of most of us... My generation's challenges have been moral and many of us have failed, miserably. The rise of militant Islam is a challenge we are not facing wisely and most of us feel sorry we have to point out that Islam has a violent past. Spoiled, well off, fat, immature whiners, OH YES, we are mostly that... though, I believe that whining is unworthy of my blood and ancestors and try NOT to, to the best of my ability. I look at my parents, god rest their good souls, with true respect.

Yeah, We Are All Whiners