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Sunday, April 20, 2008
Austin Hill :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama, Clinton And Capitalism: It's Okay For Them, But Nobody Else
by Austin Hill
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Remember Chico Escuela?

He was a character created by Actor Garrett Morris on the “Saturday Night Live” TV show, back in the 1970’s. Morris became famous for uttering these simple words in broken-English, with a Spanish-sounding accent: “Beisbol …been bery bery good to me …”

“Chico” was a fictitious professional baseball player from the Dominican Republic. He barely spoke English, but loved the fact that he was able to leave his impoverished homeland and come to the United States, where he was paid quite handsomely to play ball. And each time “Weekend Update” Anchor Jane Curtain would introduce Chico on the news set (eliciting an equally accented “tank yoo Hane” response), you knew that he would soon be asked a question that he couldn’t answer in English, and would resort to his “ bery bery good” line.

That was in the 70’s. And now in the year 2008, an adaptation of Chico’s famous line fits nicely in describing Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama: “Capitalism been berry berry good to them..”

It’s been a few weeks since the Clintons and the Obamas publicly released their tax records. Based on this information, it is now known as fact what many of us could have safely assumed: both families rank among America’s economic “upper class.”

Just as is the case with her entire political career, Hillary’s earnings are, of course, inextricably tied to her husband. As a former U.S. President, Bill Clinton has quite rightly made lots of money as a consultant, author, and public speaker, and this has helped bring the couple’s combined earnings to over $109 million between the years 2000-2006.

But apart from Bill, and in addition to her own salary as a United States Senator, during this time period Mrs. Clinton also earned $10.5 million in royalties from her book “Living History.” That’s some pretty nice cash, and we have yet to see how she fared in the year 2007.

Mr. Obama is understandably less wealthy than the Clintons. Even so, since 2000 he has earned over $8 million, largely because of royalty income from his books “Dreams From My Father” and “The Audacity Of Hope.”

The big irony here is that while Obama has done extremely well for himself in our very unique free-market economy, he has the “audacity” to demonize others who have done well for themselves, and to propose economic policies that, if implemented, would radically change our nation into something more akin to a Western European socialist state.

Obama has proposed a federal crack down on what he deems “excessive pay” for corporate executives. He has proposed that the federal government begin taxing people’s capital (not just earnings or interest payments, but, yes, capital itself). He has proposed that the capital gains tax rate be raised to 28%, nearly doubling its current rate of 15%. And he has made it a constant theme of his campaign to lament “Bush’s tax cuts for the rich,” conveniently ignoring the fact that the President and the Congress lowered the taxes of ALL Americans earlier this decade.

Mrs. Clinton is fond of maligning “rich” people as well, and openly disdains the very essence of our free-market economic system. She has berated the reality of America being an “ownership society” (despite the recent increase in mortgage foreclosures, home ownership in America is still at an all-time high), saying that in reality we are an “on your own” society. Her remedy for the “problem” is for us to become a “we’re in this together society,” a nation of “shared responsibility” AND “shared prosperity.” She has elsewhere stated that, with respect to social care for the needy, “our free-market has failed” (never mind the philanthropy and charity that Americans provide over and above paying their taxes); “churches have failed;” “we’ve all failed;” and to become a just society, some people need to “have things taken away” from them.

So let’s get something straight. Most Americans cannot fathom publishing a book, and will never have the opportunity to do so. Likewise most Americans - - even most published authors - - can’t fathom earning $1 million a year in royalty income. Yet the possibility of becoming such a successful author exists because of capitalism. Clinton and Obama are apparently okay with this, yet if a corporate executive earns what these two characters believe is “too much money,” well that person ought to be punished.

And who are Obama and Clinton that they can sell so many books? They are both intelligent, they are both lawyers, and they are both graduates of prestigious schools. But so are lots of other Americans. Yet most lawyers don’t have the platform to earn millions with a book.

The profile and name recognition that led both Obama and Clinton to lucrative publishing deals and enormous book sales have been brought about by the roles they occupy in our government. Arguably, their marketability at the bookstore has to some extent been subsidized by the federal government. Yet Clinton and Obama are first in line to question the legitimacy and “morality” of purely private sector enterprise, and can’t wait to punish those who are successful with it.

Capitalism has indeed been “bery bery good” to the Obamas and the Clintons. Their “okay for me but not for you” attitudes are absolutely elitist, and even aristocratic.

Is this really what American leadership is about?

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About The Author
Austin Hill is a Talk Show Host At Boise, Idaho's 580 KIDO Radio, and a frequent Guest Host on the Fox Newstalk Radio Network. He is the Author of "White House Confidential: The Little Book Of Weird Presidential History," And Co-Author of the forthcoming title "The Virtues Of Capitalism: A Moral Case For Free Markets" (Northfield/Moody Press, 2010).
 
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Low IQ Liberals Bow to Communists

Liberal’s IQ’s are so pathetically low from the inferior educational system the Communist liberals have trashed over the last forty years, that their voting base could careless how they are herded like sheep into the gas chambers to be extinguished again as long as they get to release a few chemicals from their brain telling them they feel good from the Kool-Aid lectures from their Communist leaders.

Communists and wealth
So far as I can tell, most Communist leaders have been or are wealthy. Vladimir Lenin came from a noble family (Dmitri Volkoganov, author of a biography of Lenin, tried to find the sources of Lenin's income in the years he was living it up in Western Europe, but could not find all of them - some came from his family's estate); Fidel Castro comes from a wealthy family, Mao Tse Tung did not come from a poor family.
( Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels came from wealthy families; Engels was manager and then part-owner of a cotton-thread factory in Manchester, Ermen and Engels, and at retirement at 48, sold his stock and invested in stocks and bonds; Marx mainly lived on what he inherited from his father and on what Engels gave him - he did not work, except briefly to write articles for the New York Herald. See Thomas Sowell, Marx and Marxism.)
The billionaires for Obama seem to be in the same tyrannical position, wealth for me but not for thee.

The first original hippies
Marx and Engels.

The heart of our problem
"Is this really what American leadership is about?"

If America has a serious political problem -- apart from destructive government policies, that is -- it's expressed by the statement above. Not the question itself, but the assumption that Americans want and need to be LED.

Most of us do not.

Most of us want to be left the BLEEP! alone to enjoy our lives, our HDTVs, and our broadband Internet connections. In service to that end, the best choices for our public officials would be dullards, "schooled from the Bible and the handle of a broom," who can be trusted to discharge the simple duties enumerated in the Constitution without a trace of "creativity."

Instead, what we get are ambitious, arrogant persons who flatter themselves that they're our moral and intellectual superiors, and are therefore qualified to "lead" us. The Republicans are not free from this malady, though Democrats' arrogance and contempt for private persons and our desires is usually dramatically worse. Ironically, when we decline to be "led," our "leaders" seldom fail to draw the moral. Instead, they castigate us for our perversity in preferring freedom and individual initiative.

Give us a few responsible dullards in high office, Lord. We don't need many -- about 540 would serve -- and we'd ask nothing more of Thee. Well, for the next four years, at least.

(See also http://www.eternityroad.info/index.php/weblog/single/the_h eretic_an_intellectuals_duty )

Clintons, Obamas not capitalists
They didn't make their money through free enterprise, but by abuse of political power and the corrupt selling pf political favors. Without that, they wouldn't have those lucrative book and speech deals, either.


Gates and Buffet are no better!!!!
NOW that they're worth BILLIONS (with a "B") these guys want to pull up the gangplank for anyone else who has an idea to make money. Both support higher income taxes (the generation of new wealth) but NOT a tax on the CAPITAL that generates their cash flow and supports their lifestyles.

What Obambi is proposing is akin to what Ayn Rand hinted at in Atlas Shrugged. Go after the wealth itself. If you taxed away EVERYTHING that all the folks in the top quintile of wealth and earnings possess right down to their paper clips you could only fund the Nanny State Giveaway Scam for about a year and then run out.

THEN who are you going to tax? You want to see peasants with pitchforks? Let THAT happen. The real tax base in in the middle class and the upper middle class NOT the "rich". The socialists running for office know this but they also know that they can make the sheeple FEEL better by offering to soak the rich on their behalf.

HOW is that going to put a nickel in anyone's pocket for more than a year and most of it goes to welfare and other socialist rat hole expenditures. Three TRILLION dollars in wealth transfers since the start of the Great Society and the numbers of people demanding aid is GROWING.

I have no great desire to pull the lever for McCain but the other two need a 2x4 upside their thick Socialist Saul Alinsky loving heads!

-Ray

Capitalism- Obama and Hiliary's take by
You said it--As long as they take home the bacon, it is okay. If someone else makes more than they do-it is class envy and not so okay.

People need to re-read George Orwell's book "Animal Farm" about the pigs who are "more equal" than the other farm animals

marx and engels
Were a couple of spoiled rich brats who never worked a day in their lives.

Only fools think they have any wisdom concerning capitalism or any economy.

If you want a sure fire way of keeping the middle class out of the upper classes, then HIGH tax rates on upper income will do it. The lemmings of the Democrat party don't realize this and just follow the demagogues like Obama.

Some great questions
arise from this article, and he's absolutely right to pose them.

Now why can't these two candidates for the highest office in the land be held to account and asked these questions?

Is capitalism working?
Has Capitalism worked for you?
Did you capitalize on your government position to make money?
In short, you used your public persona, built on your paid position in government and politics to foist your books on the American public for a pretty hefty price. How do you feel about that?

Do you believe that is right?
Should you have donated all of your revenue towards not-for-profit entities since it was your government position that made you known in the first place?

Lastly, why do you believe you have a right to the profits from your books?

Capitalism
If Obama had ever said he was against capitalism then this article might have a point. His books sold well because he writes well. You don't get to run for president without being smart, and smart people often make money. Big deal. So Democrats are only allowed to put forward paupers now?

The essence of socialism/communism
. . . and the essense of Clinton, Obama, and every other advocate for big government: I got mine, you don't get yours.

Eh?
"a Western European socialist state"

What Socialist states are there in Western Europe? What has this author been smoking?

Can't remember
"...most Americans - - even most published authors - - can’t fathom earning $1 million a year in royalty income."

Especially for writing your memoirs about things you can't remember.

Socialist states
If Western Europe is full of socialist states, how come the Euro has been soaring against the dollar the past few years?

Beisbol....
Funny also how the attacks are only on CEOs, etc for making too much money, who work in companys which provide consumers with needed goods and services, as if it is undeserved.
A person does not reach the higher positions in business by accident. They must have a proven track record which they have EARNED to even be considered for such positions.
Never any mention of sports figures, actors and musicians and what they are paid for activities which are not essential to a persons existence.

How she can succeed
“...churches have failed;” “we’ve all failed;”

How could she possibly know this? Has she been to every church? Has she talked to every poor person?

She can succeed where the rest of society has "failed." She can cure poverty by sponsoring a government program in which she will teach the poor how to make it in cattle futures. Just think; with only a $1,000 per poor person cost to the government, she can make them all rich. Voila! Poverty eliminated.

The genius Topgun...
Oh, I know lots of rich Repupublican kids go to private schools...as do many rich Democrats' children. And, granted, all rich kids, regardless of who mommy and daddy vote for typically live in the better school districts.

Still, by dent of your superior intellect, Mr. Topgun, could you explain how it is that if the commie schools godless liberals spawned are responsible for liberals' low IQs, how did the little conservative kids emerge from the public school system with such high ones?

Are conservative genes responsible? How stupid of me. Of course they are. Get over yourself.


Speaking of audacity

There was a time not long ago when government employees were not allowed to accept speaking fees – even on something completely unrelated to their job. For example, as an electronics engineer, I would be prohibited from accepting speaking fees for giving a talk on my hobby of woodworking. (Might compromise my objectivity as a government employee.)

At the same time, politicians could accept speaking fees for anything, AND if there was any left over when they retired, they got to keep it all.

The Big C word
Just wondering if "shared responsibility" and "shared prosperity" sound like just another word for Communism to anyone else besides me. I am petrified for our country and way of life. We are slowly but surely becoming a Communistic country. At least if Hillary and/or Obama have their way. Ever wonder why these two are the best the Dems have to offer?

AndyR
Western Europe socialist states are becoming more weathy not because of redistribution of wealth through nanny government, but through adoption of more and more capitalism.

CFLS
If you're voting for any candidate who absolves you of your personal accountability and responsibility for the choices you've made in life which have led to the outcome that is now your situation in life, then you're voting for your consequence free life style at the cost of your fellow AMERICANS.


Every choice you've made in life has led to your life's outcome.

The circumstances in life that you find yourself in are of your own making.



My family left a Socialist country
AndyR writes:

Socialist states
If Western Europe is full of socialist states, how come the Euro has been soaring against the dollar the past few years?

Well, world events cause these currencies to shift, and they also can shift in cycles- this has been accelerated though during this last year from something called the Subprime Mortgage Crisis- which is rooted in, to a very large degree, a belief that one deserves to live beyond one's means, and yes, recklessness on the part of some.

At the same time, the price of oil is paid for in dollars, so when there is a shift in the value of this currency, the balance shifts elsewhere. We have been wastefully buying too much as sweet crude and refined gasoline, due not enough refining capacity here.

To answer your previous question though, 'What Socialist states are there in Western Europe?'- The countries of Western Europe acknowledge that they are in fact Socialist-style governments- do you doubt their own words?

Shared
"shared responsiblity"?

Are you kidding?

Is this liberal’s idea of "original sin"?

Now we all have to pay for the stupidity of others?

Wow!

The Left is looking more like the Right more and more everyday.

Nothing like absolving people of personal accountability.

A. Hill is SPOT ON!


And let us not forget the Missus Obama who....

1. Had the opportunity to get a law degree at Yale.... WHICH SHE MOST PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY!

2. Earns $600K+ a year... WHICH SHE MOST PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY!


Yet, every time she opens her mouth, she's reading out of the Marxist Handbook!


Yeah, Top Gun had a very good point!!! Listen up libs.





I just read part of a Mchelle speech
where she asked the audience to consider what education is this country afforded her. I think it is too late for her to sing a different tune. Where was this in the beginning or is this more political expediency?

Nothing new
The big supporters of Big Sugar Daddy Pork barrel Welfare State, & even communism & tinpot dictatorships, have been rich & idle. Don't forget, Al Gore's fortune came from oil, but he had nothing to do with making it. It was a chunk of Occidental given to his daddy by one of the richest Communists ever, Armand Hammer. Al prolly doesn't know which end of the well the oil comes out of.

As was pointed out, the incredible class-envy minefield of our present tax system hardly affects the truly superwealthy who can shelter their fortunes from estate & inhertance taxes thru corporations, trusts, & foundations. These things by intention bite the upper middle class, who are the real engines of the economy.

Good call "none" also pointing out this class envy only seems directed at entrepreneurs & officers of companies that generally (Enron notwithstanding) actually do & make stuff we need (& employ people & pay hi taxe$$$), while others who pull 7 & 8 figure annual incomes for basically providing lite entertainment are adored & almost worshipped.

The very word "capitalism" comes out of commiespeak, which is why I dislike using it, as it implies acceptance of Marx's definitions & presumptions. Free enterprise, private property, individual autonomy, limited governemnt subject to rights of the governed, all cramp the style of the self-apointed elite, therefore they are hostile to those principles & seek ever to subvert, discredit, & undermine them.

Loco
"Western Europe socialist states are becoming more weathy not because of redistribution of wealth through nanny government, but through adoption of more and more capitalism."

Exactly my point.

If Ayn Rand is right...
Then those with the true smarts AND the capital will flee into the hills and let the socialists feed on each other until there is nothing left. Then they can come out of hiding and rebuild. Is that what it's going to take? Electing Oblahma will be a disaster for this country. Electing Billary will be a disaster. So what if McCain is more of the same, at least he's not driving the ship of state off the left side of the gangplank.

This also reminds me of..
I can't remember her name, but she's still around and appears in Parade Magazine periodically to caution us about depression. I remember her on Johnny Carson during the early '70's at the start of the women's liberation movement extolling about how women need to stay home and not have careers. I was young at the time, but I wondered why it was OK for her to have a career and not other women.

The conundrum of Wisdom
The conundrum of Wisdom , Common Sense , Reality and sound Reason flowered by even similar words like Personal Responsibilty and Individualism are sheer Treason to Socialist/Marxist believers .
Sadly it was Karl Marx's "Theories " that Murdered hundreds yet todays Liberal/Socialist >Idealist leading to Marxist right here in this country .
Marx and Engle's Stalin , Mao , Castro Pol Pot , The Dear leader in K. Korea and even Putin in New Russia now were leaders of total failed countries the left wants this travesty brought to AMERICA .?
All see back then and now is .. "" Capitalism" as the enemy of the State .
Only 12 % at best of America want us to abandon Capital;ism but 99 % of the Socialist and the Media do sadly .
Its the same thing with Gay marriage . Gays are only a scat 5.6 % of our population and only 09 % of One % want to marry yet the media jams it at use like 50 % of Americans love GAY ,MARRIAGE .
THAT IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO AMERICA ON WANTING US TO BE A SOCIALIST NATION .

none
"Never any mention of sports figures (etc)"

That is because the vast majority of super rich athletes, actors, musicians, entertainers etc are firmly in the dimmies socialistic circle. They donate to the various demmie pols!

With the exception of people like Soros, most industrialists are in the conservative camp.

Let me ask, human nature being what it is, whose camp would you attack - your's or the enemy's?

ceo's and high pay
it's amazing that these two lawyers fail to understand what contracts are and that the court tends to see that such agreements are followed.

Ceo's are hired by the boards of companies. The contract spells out the financial arrangementsthat are to ber paid for the services of the ceo.

Are some or many ceo's overpaid. Perhaps but if the dims are upset with the results they should look into the hiring process and seek to convince corporate boards to be less generous in the amount of compensation they pay the ceo's.

But the missus clinton also wanted the contracts betrween the banks and mortgage copmpanies and those in danger of losing their homes to be re-negotiated to favor the homeowners. This is govt intrusion into the private mortgage market. Are there persons who recieved mortgages but under the old rules didn't qualify for home loans. Of this there is no doubt but the govt telling businesses that contracts must be renegotiated is overstepping boundaries and is a very questionable practice for the govt to engage in.

But there is little doubt that should either of the dim contenders be involved in a contract tyhat went from favorable to unfavorable they would certainly like the terms changed to suit their fancy rather than honor the agreement they entered into.

But I guess the day they taught contracts at law school both the oblahma and the missus clinton were abvsent that day

Shoes of Socialism
"If the shoe fits wear it". My Mother used to say that to indicate I had done something wrong and she could prove it. Obama and Clinton should wear the shoes of Socialism because their own words prove their guilt. Socialist are thieves. Socialist take money from one citizen's pocket and gives it , not in compensation for labor but as a gift, to another citizen. The taking may be against the will of the citizen being forced to give their earned work compensation to another. One example is the College Grant Program. Our government takes your money, which you may prefer to save to send your own child to college, and gives it (free, no payback) to a perfect stranger (to you) to attend their College of Choice. The government has forced you to be benevolent. The example I site is just one of many, food stamps, welfare, Medicare, and the prescription drug program are all huge programs you are forced to support. Those are Socialist/Communist programs and they violate our Constitution. The Democrats have constructed a pig sty of Socialism and Obama and Clinton are wallowing in it and they intend (they have told you so) to pull you in there with them. Get ready to wallow.

We're coming for your guns
Athena writes: The billionaires for Obama seem to be in the same tyrannical position, wealth for me but not for thee.

PW: Wealth isn't a problem for the relative handful of vampires who, by aptitude and inclination, are adept at getting it. Wealth is a problem for folks who can't afford to buy health insurance or put gas in the car.

Tacitus X writes: Clintons, Obamas not capitalists
They didn't make their money through free enterprise, but by abuse of political power and the corrupt selling pf political favors.

PW: Right. They should have just married well like Mr. McCain did.

AndyR writes: If Obama had ever said he was against capitalism then this article might have a point.

PW: Exactly. This liberals-hate-rich-people ploy is as bogus as "they want to take away our guns."




Let Me Give an Example
Some time back, I received a "rude awakening" to the sociolistic mind-set of dimmies & libs.

My wife's uncle, a "yellow-dog" Dem, started a political conversation (entrapment) by asking "What do you think about" questions. 2 of those concerned welfare and social security. His response on welfare was, "Why should they have to work? They can have a better life off the government than they can earn." On SS (I had strenuously opposed the dim/lib proposal to give SS to illegal aliens) he said, "So what if they are here illegally! So what if they don't pay taxes or contribute to SS! That doesn't mean they don't deserve to get a fair share."

Shrillary's "we will take from some and give to others" and B Husein O's "eliminate world poverty" explicitely fit that mind-set. Naturally, they don't mean that for themselves or people like Soros, rich athletes & actors & etc.

"The big irony...
...here is that while Obama has done extremely well for himself in our very unique free-market economy, he has the “audacity” to demonize others who have done well for themselves..."

That's because Obama earned his money in a moral, progressive way -- by writing navel-gazing tributes to himself. Obama only trashes non-progressive capitalists, like those who profit by cynically peddling food, medicine, energy and capital -- the things people need. Obama is going to make sure the wrong kind of capitalists face justice. They will pay higher taxes. Something to do with "fairness," you see.

The more we learn about this guy, the more amazing he can claim a college education -- Ivy League or otherwise. He would be an embarrassment to a second-tier community college.

Andy & Perry
Of course Obama has never said he's against capitalism--he's politically astute enough to at least try and obfuscate his true intentions.

What he (and Hillary, for that matter) have said is that they would confiscate what others have legitimately earned to be distributed as they see fit.

Gee, I'm all for thumb screws and shoving bamboo under fingernails, but I never said I was for "torture."

The Neo Con is laughable
We have not been a capital based sciety since the early 30's. We are based on credit not capital. Even communist countries are more captial based than we are. The government just has the captial. In our system private banks have the capital.
Do not try and fear monger and talk about capitalism if you support they Neo Con and our current monetary policies.

Warrior - Shoes of Sociolism
Good comments, espec the "get ready to wallow".

My Dad (RIP) used to say, "Never buy a pair of shoes until you try them on." When I was a teenager, he used to say, "Never buy a car until you test drive it."

The meaning? If you buy a pair of shoes that don't fit, you will suffer. If you learn that something doesn't work, it's too late to change your mind AFTER you "buy" it, and you will continue to PAY for your mistake.

Dad also used to say, "It doesn't matter who you vote for, as long as you vote Democrat." Well, I can forgive him for that one.

Never Worked
Yes,yes, those Democrats made money by speeches and books and talking to people from a gov't pulpit.
It's hilarious to read Hill (a man who never worked to produced anything of value) and commmenters talk about HRC and BHO this way. It didn't seem to bother any of you in 2000 or 2004 when you voted for an elitist, rich Republican who never had to work a day in his life (cutting brush doesn't count,it's rich boy exercise), was an alcoholic drug user,ruined the only businesses he ran (having to be rescued by dad) and decided on his own (not really,he just did what his advisers told him to do) to invade Iraq. Which action, by the way, is a large part of the drop in the $ and the increase in oil prices.
You think one of the Democrats could be any worse?

dave
Well - two out of three isn't bad - a clear majority!

May your wise father rest in peace.

A Deeply Flawed Candidate
Is Barack Hussein Obama out of touch? Read these links as starters. Pass them on.

RE his radical church: http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=594 56

RE the Hamas endorsement of BHO:
http://www.deanesmay.com/2008/04/17/hamas-endorses-obama/

RE more on his radical church:
http://www.bizzyblog.com/2008/03/17/tuccs-church-bulletins- from-july-2007-probably-make-whether-obama-was-present-on-J uly-22-irrelevant/

RE BHO and Black Reparations:
http://www.pr-inside.com/a-presidet-barack-obama-would-forc e-r85048.htm

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9561.html

RE partial BHO and partial birth abortions:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/77500/barack_husse in_obama_jr_defends_partialbirth.html

RE BHO's failure to take a stand on controversial topics as a state legislator:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/federation/feature/?id=110009 664

RE the Second Amendment:
http://www.gunlawnews.org/Senators/Barack-Obama.html

RE the Global Poverty Act:
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-global-tax-proposal-up -for-senate-vote/

Too liberal? Out of touch? I think so. Big butt kicking for Dems this November.

A Real Redistribution of Wealth
Program that might just work is simply this -

Take all of the moneies from all the Warren Buffet/Bill Gates types, take it from the Hill & Bill/Barry & Michelle teams, take all the Kennedy trust funds, the Kerry-Heinz ill-begotten treasure, take Rev Wright's new digs and sell it at market value (give that back to his parishoners, after all, they paid for it).
Take ALL the monies from ALL the lawmakers, movie stars, and anyone else making more than $1 million a year and GIVE IT ALL to THE PEOPLE...

Let all those who suddenly find themselves living amongst 'The Rabble' make proposals about how best to TAX US only after this has all been accomplished.
I'll bet the ideas they would come up with would be radically different from their current plans.

For God And Country
W/O=

koolhand
First off quit with the Bush was a drug abuser. You liberals always post that dribble and it from Kitty Kelley's books and proven to be false. Yes, he has admitted to alcoholism. So? I find it hilarious you use a lie to bludgeon Bush but don't seem to mind Obama's self admitted drug connections.

Next I don't mind that Bush is rich. Nor do I mind that Obama and Clinton are rich. What I do mind is Obama and HC bashing the very system that made them rich. Anyone who falls for this populist rhetoric has some serious personal issues about their own failures in life.

Lastly look up the word hypocrite, then look in the mirror, because you and your ilk are the textbook definition of it, along with HC and Obama.

I am Sans Pareil
Good post and Amen!

Hillary on Capitalism
"We need to stop worrying about the rights of the individual and start worrying about what is best for society." -- Hillary Clinton

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." -- Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, June 28, 2004.

Green Power
"Money dissolves skin colour on contact. The fact that Silicon Valley, the freest market in the world, has produced the United Colours of Geek proves it." -- Dan Gardner

Hey...kool-aid in-hand
"...in 2000 or 2004 when you voted for an elitist, rich Republican who never had to work a day in his life"

And I guess that means (if you were old enough) that in 2004 you voted for the "elitist Gigolo John Kerry" who made BOTH of his fortunes the old fashioned way. He married it TWICE!!

W/O=

Good Morning Lolo
How are you today?

W/O=

Perry White
""PW: Wealth isn't a problem for the relative handful of vampires who, by aptitude and inclination, are adept at getting it. Wealth is a problem for folks who can't afford to buy health insurance or put gas in the car.""

You seem to have all the answers, at least you think so. Since you are so much more enlightened that us poor ignorant conservatives, please enlighten us.

Exactly how is a rich guy stopping you from putting gas in your car? How is Bill Gates stopping you from buying health insureance?

Are you one of those simpletons who actually believe that the economy is a Zero Sum Game?

If Bill Gates makes a buck do you actually believe that he took that buck from a homeless guy?

Show us the depths or your economic knowlege Perry, show us how evil rich guys are making you poor.


The Old Saying
About being in your 20's and voting Dem but by the age of 40 voting republican absolutely applies when TAXES are the issue.
All the idealistic gibberish taught in America's schools is still fresh in your mind and, the way the HS teachers or college professors phrase the argument does little more than "indoctrinate" the youth of today.
It all sounds so Utopian, so Perfect. AND the presenters of the 'information' are respected as authority figures who "know more" than the students being instructed to drink the kool-aid to wash the BS down.

At 40 and with 20 years of paying the freight behind you & ONLY another 20 or so before your retirement...those 'learned folks' who had you believing there was a pot-o-gold over the rainbow for EVERYONE start to look & sound like the Communist/Socialist front-men they actually were all those years ago.

Little wonder the "youth vote" leans heavily Dem/Lib in National Elections. Experience counts for something...it's called "Common Sense".

Obama has neither, Experience or Common Sense.
BUT he does have a lot of empty rhetoric that somehow resounds with the young.

For God And Country
W/O=

Jackpine
Arguing with or looking for reasonable explanations from someone who thinks he is "Superman's Boss" is futile.

W/O=

rich folks
Its no secret that well educated, intelligent people usually prosper in our society. Especially if you can write books that are popular with the public. Obama and Hillary are not unique. What is the problem with asking them, who have so much to help those in society who struggle. Fifteen year old girls who give birth are going to have a tough go of it and they and their child too often end up on welfare. Those women need help to complete their education and find a means to be self supporting. We are the only developed country that lets their mentally ill roam the streets. Caring societies such as the "awful" socialist countries in Europe provide care, and medical help for them. Those Socialist countries also have a well supported college system that costs a fraction of what our does. Their economies are flourishing as a result.

There are some beneficial things that comes from taxing those with money to spare.

koolhand - There you go again.
Do you have any comments that do not use:

Moral relativism?

Moral Equivalency?

Perry White
Is a Comic Book Character!!!
Get Real Mr ED(itor)

W/O=

I am Sans Pareil
Good morning to you as well.

I am good, especially since it is Sunday!

I am Sans Pareil
I cannot speak for others but I have always found that Utopian rhetoric to be the logic of simpletons.


Please keep posting I am enjoying your wisdom.

Democratic Socialism
Aren't most of the countries in Europe Socialist Democracies? If they had been paying for their own defense all these years, they would not be doing so well and could not afford the cradle to grave policies. They have been funded by the taxpayers of the U.S. ever since they were rescued from them Nazis and put on the road to recovery by the Marshall Plan and by the protection by the U.S. They are running out of young natives to pay the high taxes required to fund their programs. They are allowing, because they don't have enough young workers immigrants-most of whom are Muslim. Unless the Europeans wake up, they are finished as a society and culture. It may already be too late. Do they have people who will fight for them?
Obama and Hillary are in the top 1% of people according to their incomes. None of them has ever had a regular job such as the ones that most U.S. citizens have.
Interesting that everyone who votes has to be some sort of bigot. Those who do not vote for Hillary are sexists, those who do not vote for Obama are racists, and those who do not vote for McCain are agists.
Donald W. Bales

I Am Sans Pareil
""Arguing with or looking for reasonable explanations from someone who thinks he is "Superman's Boss" is futile.""

I know that sans Pareil, I never actually expected an honest or even intelligent reply from our 2 dimensional freind from the funnies.

My question was mostly rhetorical, in an effort to set the record straight for any newbies who may be reading these comments and may be swayed by perry's commie views on economics.

I know it's impossible to get a straight answer from a true believer socialist who is waiting for the day he can quit supporting himself and let uncle Barack take care of his every need.

Making all those Evil people who work for their money pay for it of course.

Liberals are So funny. :o)

leilani
You can't be serious. The USA a communist country? You obviously have no inkling as to how communism works. To say that we are anything but a textbook definition of a capitalist economy would be ignorant. If anything we are much closer to a fascist state than a communist one. They obviously share many characteristics from governmental standpoint.

As for Europe being done. It funny that the Euro is worth one and a half times what the dollar is. They have problems but their life expectancy is higher than ours (they have healthcare),they have lower teenage pregnancy rates and infant mortality rates than we do etc.
We are the ones in trouble as now we are giving money to Iraq, Afghanistan that we desperately need. As the former USSR found out. You can't have a strong national infrastructure and be the dominant world military power at the same time...it's too expensive and something has to give.
If anyone can tell me how we can balance another trillion dollars for Iraq, fix the healthcare and SS systems, rebuild one of our decimated cities, improve education, close our borders all while lowering taxes, as McCain suggests, please show me the math. I'm sure the Chinese would have a good laugh as they write us another check.

Chicaree
""Caring societies such as the "awful" socialist countries in Europe provide care, and medical help for them. Those Socialist countries also have a well supported college system that costs a fraction of what our does. Their economies are flourishing as a result.""


Obviously you haven't seen a newscast in the past year or so Chicaree. Europe is pulling away from socialism, because their governments are going broke trying to pay for their "Caring" socialist programs. In france, they have riots because the sheeple are upset about the government cutting social programs.

The "Wonderful British health system" that you lefties cite so often is now refusing care to the chronically ill and elderly, so they can save money for "working age people".

The Wonderful Canadian health care system is so screwed up that ALL high risk pregnancies are shipped to american hospitals for care, because there's no money to pay for them in canada.

As Don writes above, the only reason the european countries could afford to spend money on socialist programs was because We were paying for their security. I'd have lots of money to spend too if someone else paid my bills for me.

All over the world, socialism is failing, and losing popularity, except here where we have idiots who still believe communism can still work if the right "Compassionate" people try it.

If voting for Obama assuages your "White guilt" and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside chicaree, by all means vote for Obama, but don'tcome crying to us when you see your tax bill in 2009 and find out you're one of those "Evil Rich People" who need to pay more.

According to Freud, all socialists are insane, because they keep trying the same failed experiment over and over, expecting a different result.


Broshaw
""I'm a sixty year old realist and I don't expect to hit the jackpot but I don't expect those running the country to widen the gap between the rich and everyone else. Those idiots saying the government owes us nothing for the taxes we pay, whether it be affordable health insurance or decent education opportunities, would all be singing a different tune the minute they went down to apply for unemployment benefits. ""

For a "60 year old Realist" you seem to understand very little in the Real world.

So, All republicans are Rich? A republican has never gotten unemployment before?

Please explain to me how Soaking the rich who already pay 50% of the taxes, will improve your lot in life one whit. Other than assuaging your feelings of class envy, making people who have accomplished more than you will do absolutely ZERO to affect your life in any way.

But is sure makes you FEEL good huh broshaw?

I'm NOT rich, not even close, (but my tax bill would frighten you broshaw) but I know that I live in the greatest country in the world, where someone can be born dirt poor, and become a supreme court justice regardless of skin color.

I live in a country where your station in life isn't determined by who your parents are but how hard you work to succeed.

You seem to think of the government as some existential piggy bank where your tax dollars are waiting for you to withdraw in the form of govt. handouts whenever you want. It doesn't work that way.

I was Dirt Poor more than once in my life,I've been HOMELESS and managed to WORK my way out of poverty without an ivy league education, or any formal education beyond high school. And I did it without holding my hand out for the government to pay my way.

I DID IT!!!

If a slightly burned out, disabled ex-carpenter like me can achieve success in this country ANYONE can if they work at it hard enough.

Unless you listen to a democrat who will tell you YOU CAN'T!

Socialism
To paraphrase Thomas Sowell, Socialism had a record of failure so blatant that only an "intellectual" could ignore or evade it.

Hypocrisy Displayed by Obama & Clinton
I'm amazed at those who see nothing hypocritical or dishonest in the statements on the economy by Senators Obama and Clinton. Capitalism, based as it is on a ostensibly free market (more about this later), is inextricably linked to the American Way. I use that term advisedly, knowing there are literally millions in this country who, thanks to our left-leaning educational establishment, have little idea what that means.

Leftists, among whom the two Democratic candidates must be counted, are opposed to most of the features of American life that have made possible the unparalleled economic prosperity we enjoy. If this November the Liberals get their way at the ballot box (something they've historically failed at), it will be because the decades-long campaign to dumb down our population, along with their promotion of unchecked illegal immigration, have a long last succeeded.

Realist?
"I'm a sixty year old realist and I don't expect to hit the jackpot but I don't expect those running the country to widen the gap between the rich and everyone else."

Ever notice that it's usually the self-anointed "realists" that are the most out of touch with reality?

Rock Strongo
"What he (and Hillary, for that matter) have said is that they would confiscate what others have legitimately earned to be distributed as they see fit."

Er, is that a hifalutin way of saying he agrees with the system of taxation? I think you'll find we already have that system.

Simple fairness is goal
Jackpine Savage writes: Are you one of those simpletons who actually believe that the economy is a Zero Sum Game? If Bill Gates makes a buck do you actually believe that he took that buck from a homeless guy?

PW: I don't resent or envy rich people; I'm one myself. Neither do I think my good fortune derives from the deprevation of the poor. Still, I understand the purpose and value of progressive taxation.

Rich people benefit from "the commons" to a much greater extent than the middle class or the poor. The warfare wealthy (WW) owe virtually everything to the existence of the commons, and more and more WW are joined at the hip with the government in a facist power sharing relationship.

So the rich should pay progressively more to create and support the system that takes such very good care of them. That's not communism, just simple fairness.

Beyond that, I don't want to live in a society in which people like me have to step over poor people sleeping on sidewalks on my way to deposit dividend checks. It would make me feel selfish and callous or, if I were religious, un-Christian.

I never suggested the economy is a zero-sum game. But whether it is hardly matters to the question of what to do about those who aren't able for one reason or another to swim with the sharks.

Pardon my elitism, but turning them into entrepreneurs with loans to start businesses probably isn't the answer. Most new businesses fail, and running a successful business requires aptitudes and talents that aren't equally distributed in the population.

So that's why we need government initiatives to help keep things fair and balance things out.










Hillary, the sandbox bully
Is Hillary's quest to take away things from people who have earned it and give it to others for the "common good" any different than the sandbox bully who decides he should take the toys of his playmate simply because he wants them? At least the sandbox bully is more honest in his intentions. He doesn't pretend it's for the "common good" it's for what he perceives to be his own good. Hillary is all about power and she wants it all for he own good.

paying Taxes
I don't mind paying taxes and I can pay more. I do resent my taxes being spent on a senseless war. And I do mind when the very rich know how to beat the system and pay nothing. Here is an excerpt about the 33rd richest man in American and his corporation that paid nothing.

The Economist reported that "Newscorp Investments" company owned by Murdock had made £1.4 billion ($2.1 billion) in profits over the previous 11 years but had paid no net corporation tax. It further reported, after an examination of what was available of the accounts, that Newscorp would normally have expected to pay a corporate tax of approximately $350 million. The article explained that the corporation's complex structure, international scope and use of offshore havens allowed News Corporation to avoid tax

Socialist countries
living in those countries is not as grim as you portray it. They are densely populated and do not have the natural resources to make them wealthy that the US has but they have vibrant and healthy societies. I do know they do not complain about the high taxes as much as Amercians as they benefit directly from them. They have secure retirements and are cared for when they get sick. They know they aren't facing bankruptcy if they have the misfortune to develop a treatable but chronic disease. No health care system is perfect but our system is broken!.

Perry
You misunderstand the entire point of this article.

Hillary and Obama aren't necessarily against Capitalism. They love it for themselves and their friends, but for no one else. That's why they and their ilk are elitist. They got theirs, they don't want any more "new money," because in their eyes that would make more and more people equal in terms of power and privilege to them, and that they cannot abide. And anything that empowers people on an independent basis is abhorrent to them.


About 40 years ago
when I was learning to swim one instructor had a very effective technique for getting the kids to go underwater and open their eyes: He threw a couple handfuls of coins into the pool.

So tell me, Perry White, when I came back up with $0.35 and a better swimmer got $1.05 should the instructor have taken some of his coins and given them to me? In order to "keep things fair and balance things out"?


Sibling rivalry sufferer
Wayfinder, dude, that sounds pretty paranoid. And I think you missed my point. Not everybody can be a titan of industry...what happens to those who lack the aptitude or wherewithal to generate or access all that latent "new money"?

Beyond that, how does providing health care for the masses interfere with your quest to become master of the universe?

Quote Karl Marx
Thomas Sowell on Karl Marx
This was not a theory about "human nature" or "human psychology," but about how the mode of economic production (how goods and services are produced) determines all the other political, social, cultural, and moral structures of a society (though some Marxists are uncomfortable with this in an absolute sense). The needs of the "English petty bourgeois" are thus not "false needs" [note], however dismissive Marx sounds, but true needs in relation to a capitalistic mode of production he abhored -- needs which will change over time, in a historicist sense, as the mode of production changes. As a "science" of history, Marxism would succeed or fail to the extent that it could actually predict the evolution of production and its various effects.
Marx watched 140 million die of Hunger though collective farming as did the only farm owner in all of Russia Joseph Stalin .
Karx until his death saw no diffrence between right and wrong since our very existance is a duty to the mother state .

Too Andy R.
AndyR writes: Sunday, April, 20, 2008 9:09 AM
Socialist states
If Western Europe is full of socialist states, how come the Euro has been soaring against the dollar the past few years?
______________________________________________________
The weaker dollar makes American good more competative in "Europe and Asia " !
And that makes European and Asian goods more expensive in America ..Duh !

One suspects after reading """I am a socialist"" and need a Nanny actually you write an think like a helpless "Clux "Andy R. . Does the baby needs Mommyies milk forever ? Probably !
First off Europe's economy has never matched all of America and Texas economy alone is better than Socialist tied in Knots France because of Unions , Moslems Goverenment red tape , Regulations and LACK OF PRODUCTIVITY .Employed Jobs are 94.5 % in America ... France and Germany average (88.090% )!
Just for the record Simple Andy R. America has the Number one economy ever on this earth and gives more money to Help the World than does all the rest of the world put togther and 23 % of the UN and they stay here free .
You think Capitalism is the enemy ? Then why did 19,671 die of heat in and around Paris 4 years ago because they didn't have AC or the ability to drink water out of a water fountain or their own damn sink .
Your shallowness makes you an Oboma baby and fan .
Through in you hate America and you de MAN !

Nauseating
It is not the business of the U.S. government to dictate salaries for CEO's or anyone else. These two hypocrites do not set limits on their personal incomes. If either of them meant a word that they said, they would not have wasted $40 billion on this campaign (they would have donated all that money to the poor), they would have not have solicited money from average Americans to finance t heir campaigns(they would have given average Americans part of their millions), they would have voted to lower Congressional salaries and perks (since service occupations are so rewarding, these two should have accepted no pay), and they would live in humble homes (instead of mansions). Clinton and Obama want to garner wealth for themselves and they want the rest of us to be their poor, adoring servants. They can both go to h***. This is absolutely nauseating.

why don't they just say it?
I hate the "filthy rich." I can make this country a better place with their money--and more of yours than I can safely say. I will go down in history as a great president. And I don't give a dam how much of your money it will cost. As an ex president I'll always have mine.

Obama will make life fair. All alone.
Obama, ignoring economic history, refuses to grant that tax reductions result in greater revenue for the government. He needs to explain the economic theory under which this will not happen. Even though the government will need to take in enormous amounts of revenue to pay for his visionary programs, he is against a tax policy which might make it happen. Why? As president, he thinks it is his duty to make things "fair," by taxing those who he thinks make too much money. Where in the constitution does it give the presisent the power to make the economy fair? A President Obama is a very scary thought.

Economic's& Reality # 101 l
The more I read you out of touch air heads mindless leftist . The more I know our Socialist Colleges are failing this country and their Parents in basic # 101 economics' but most of all reality and simple common sense .
Leftist are Alien to facts and only have """ Yea Butt "" meaningless questions . When you ask them to explain their question and their answer ..... they are ALWAYS ""NULL and VOID and have a blank stare ... Then they call me names of course .......It like talking to a kid on Prozac who needs back on the med's .
First off Capitalism is based on creativity , Individualism , personal responsibility and caring for our own family or if you will .. when we have babies we bring into the world WE CARE FOR THEM ... PERIOD .
We only turn to others when there is no other way after we are educated , job skilled and have live moral lives and there is no other way (Temporarily) .We are hurt when we take anything from others we didn't earn .
We don't care how much Oboma made from a book or a 100 million dollars the CLINTONS made from their .......... ? So they need not question what any one else made unless they start with , Bill Gates , Hollywood , Jay Leno , Tiger Woods or Opera and them selves first .
We fight wars not because they are popular or unpopular .We fight them against that are against Freedom and democracy the left wallowing in but is no friend to keeping the world save when word fail from terrorism like Now !

2-Economic & Reality # 101
We don't parade for human rights then act like pacifist the left's marching orders .We never hear the left berate Suicide Bombers , Be headers , Bin laden , Al Quada or even Saddam but its open season on Bush trying to help 58 million human being in Iraq and Afghanistan live decent life especially (WOMEN ) knowing if we walk away the entire middle east will go up in flames .
You can't wait to him a Marine like me that didn't do what you on the left wanted and it was too make us look like Goons , rapist and murderers .
In short I see you Misfits on the left as the true enemy of America .

Perry
Let us look at a few examples of your terminology shall we...

"the commons" -
By this I trust you mean "the little people"...
BUT because "little people" is seen as being a 'Politically Incorrect Slur" against dwarfs & midgets, the CURRENT crop of 'elitists' on the 'average' college campus (both students & those teaching them) commonly use "the commons" so as not to offend the real "little people".

"The warfare wealthy (WW)" -
This is a new one! Do you mean arms dealers? Black marketeers? Or something along the lines of class warfare?
Whatever you meant is actually irrelevant to my point, which is this..."WW" as you put it is another term bandied about by the CURRENT crop of 'educated idiots' in TODAYS college classrooms.

"dude" -
Now this one I recognize...I thought it went 'out' with the 80's but I guess it just went out with my crowd when we grew up and started speaking 'adult english'.

For God And Country
W/O=

Perry
"Beyond that, I don't want to live in a society in which people like me have to step over poor people sleeping on sidewalks on my way to deposit dividend checks. It would make me feel selfish and callous or, if I were religious, un-Christian."

Perhaps you could pass out some of those dividends to the homeless you step over, rather than deposit them. Imagine how much good wealthy liberals like yourself could do with your own money!

"Pardon my elitism, but turning them into entrepreneurs with loans to start businesses probably isn't the answer. Most new businesses fail, and running a successful business requires aptitudes and talents that aren't equally distributed in the population."

In other words, the unwashed masses do not possess your superior intelligence and thus need to be taken care of by the productive members of society, at the discretion of those with superior wisdom and compassion, i.e. "progressives" like yourself, I assume.

At least you acknowledge your elitism--that's the first step.

Perry...more for you
You have assured everyone of two things, one we couldn't possibly care less about (but whatever floats your boat) and the other is a total contradiction of the claim itself -
"I don't resent or envy rich people; I'm one myself."
AND
"...I understand the purpose and value of progressive taxation."

So many Libs posting on TH seem to share the same malady - "the need to impress" - we have 12 year old Libs claiming to be Navy Captains, jet pilots, Black-Ops Assassins, CEO's, and oh yeah Rich...
It is pitiful that they believe it will make their opinions more valid but such is the mind of the adolescent.
**I am NOT suggesting you are not RICH, you may be. Mommy & Daddy may be Super-Rich, your brother may be Richie-Rich...who cares!

Then you assert you "understand...progressive taxation" without fully explaining. Are you asking us to "willingly suspend our disbelief" because ...because what exactly?
Because YOU are Perry White/Superman's boss?
Please...cut the BS.

Let me ask you this...
If you make $49,999 a year and get taxed at 33% and I make $50,000 and am in the 50% bracket - is that the type of progressivenes you "value"?

Or how about the guy making a million a year?
Even IF we were all taxed at ONE RATE (33%) the guy making a million is going to pay how much MORE than you or I?
Is is fair to give me a tax refund and not him? Should I get a larger % back than he does AND should I get a smaller % of my taxes back than you do?

Damn those "tax cuts for the rich"...he got more back than me!!! Was that fair?

W/O=


Actually, out of the
300,000,000 in the US, over 100,000,000 have interests in the stock market through pension, 104(10), or Kroegh plans, even if they do not directly buy on the market. These include the huge public service industries of police, fire, and education, and all of the gov't employees, local, state, and federal.

It is no longer true in any way that only a few hugely rich are invested in stocks/bonds or that anyone who has stock market interests are isolated elitests.

The unfortunate few who genuinely qualify as homeless, having no relatives or any means of support save the streets themselves, are, at least in NYC, guaranteed shelter space nightly Their number is about 600,000 nationally and in the last quarter cewntruey that varies little between censuses and might be compared slightly to "Skid Row" and "Bowery Street" cases of earlier days before the word "homeless" became a catchall.

There are concomittantly about 600,000 hardcore drug addicts nationally, many of whom overlap with homeless persons, as the reason they are homeless is addictions and diseases beyond any easy or one-size-fits-all political solution.

chicaree
writes: Sunday, April, 20, 2008 4:15 PM

"I don't mind paying taxes and I can pay more."

Well, why don't you then?
Have you checked off the little box that asks the IRS to TAKE MORE so you can "PAY MORE"?
Well, there's always next April 15th...keep it in mind though will ya'.

A few more Libs doing that and maybe the rest of us can get another Tax Break.

In fact...how about we turn the tables on Mrs Clinton and we TAKE HER MONEY to "redistribute" it to the poor & huddled masses!
Leave the Clintons ohhhh, maybe $1 million, and pass around the other $100 million in $1 million dollar bundles to the downtrodden (I can become downtrodden pretty quick if Mrs C agrees).

That would INSTANTLY turn 1/3 of the country into MILLIONAIRES!!!
Then we go after Obama...OK maybe the $7 Million we CONFISCATE from him & Michell will only make 7 more Americans INSTANT Millionaires but hey, there are many more Libs with loads more Millions to "redistribute"...
Kennedy - Rockefeller - Edwards...the list goes on and on.

Poof, no more recession!

For God And Country
W/O=

Chickaree
I hope you're still online because I've always had a question for those who believe the European Socialist model is better - why don't you just go live in one of those countries instead of trying to change an economic system and country of laws that many people have died to protect? There were many Europeans who loved their country and so did not risk life & limb to make it in a new country. The US has a set-up unique to the world. Why change our system?

livefree
Forget about chicaree moving to a socialist utopia in Europe...
I'm STILL waiting for Alec Baldwin to move out and he already promised he would!

W/O=

So very uniquely unique
Mr. Hill says, "...Obama has done extremely well for himself in our very unique free-market economy...."

There is no such thing as a "very unique" economy, or a "very unique" anything else. Unique means "one of a kind," and thus cannot be modified with words like "very." Something is either unique or it isn't.

So I'll let Mr. Hill off with that little lesson and not even comment on his defense of what is, indeed, an "on your own society."

Oh, yes! How very true!
The fact that there would be no public sector if not for the private sector (capitalism) is lost on far too many! This truth is also how some of my social work colleagues come to understand the importance capitalism and its fun watching the lights go on!

Private donations in NJ (on which we depend) to many of our social efforts are way down, and it is because of confiscatory taxes. Without the private sector, we have a third world country consisting of wealthy politicians and the serfs who subsidize them. Social services suffer, and subsequently that which liberal dems claim to champion cease to be able to function.

Cradle to Grave Liberal Mentality

“Still, by dent of your superior intellect, Mr. Topgun, could you explain how it is that if the commie schools godless liberals spawned are responsible for liberals' low IQs, how did the little conservative kids emerge from the public school system with such high ones?

Are conservative genes responsible? How stupid of me. Of course they are. Get over yourself.” … Perry White

The poor conservative children have parents who teach them Christian values, responsibility and good morals and how to study at home instead of getting drunk every night and ignoring their parental responsibilities to overcome the incompetence of the Communist teachers who are taught to brainwash the children with their “the government is supposed to take care of you from cradle to grave” mentality.

for live free or die
Socialist European countries,I have lived there for short periods, and I am married to a European, but my job and my relatives live here. There is no system that is perfect but the point is some of the things that European countries provide their citizens makes a lot of sense and cares for those who cannot care for themselves. such as the mentally ill. Innovation means striving for the best we can be and if it works, why not adapt it. Also the mass transportation system Europe has put in place is very convenient as well.

Do as I say not as I do
The so called "We are the ones that care about you" Liberals have shown their true colors again. They only care that they can trod all over our GOD given rights and the U.S. Constitution. It galls them to think that through hard work that someone can possibly make more money than they can.

Western European Socialism? Bring it on!
The western/northern european brand of "socialism" is a wonderful mix of lutheran ethics, humanism, and liberalism. The state provides you with childcare, healthcare, education, and pension. This allows you to be what you want to be - no matter what background you came from. You are 100% in charge of your own destiny. In return you pay taxes. Simple.

I can only hope that over time this country will change in that direction...

As you can tell: I am a total europhile: I've lived, worked or studied in Sweden, Norway, the UK, France, and Italy.

chicaree
"Socialist European countries...care(s) for those who cannot care for themselves. such as the mentally ill."

Thus by those standards every Liberal would be taken care of by the government.
Liberalism, after all, has been described as a mental disorder.

For God And Country
W/O=

Capitalism and the Neo-Socialist
Like most of the Neo0- Socialist in politics today, the reason they crave a "socialist" America is not because they "give a tinkers damn" about you or me, it's the power it will afford them that they care about.

Don
"Aren't most of the countries in Europe Socialist Democracies?"
I can't think of any socialist states in Western Europe.

"They have been funded by the taxpayers of the U.S. ever since they were rescued from them Nazis"
America was the only country that ended the war richer than when it started. In fact, Britain only just finished paying USA back for the money lent it during WW2.

ReCon-USMC: "Just for the record Simple Andy R. America has the Number one economy ever on this earth and gives more money to Help the World than does all the rest of the world put togther and 23 % of the UN and they stay here free .
You think Capitalism is the enemy ?"

What a bizarre rant. No I don't think capitalism is the enemy. Me saying that Europe owes its economic success to capitalism means I don't like capitalism? Eh? You may think I am simple (nice ad hominem) but obviously my post was too complicated for you. Perhaps becuase I used punctuation marks, which you obviously spurn.

Enlightenment
The third law of the Liberal Theology is that the elite (the most "enlightened") are exempt from all other rules and guidelines except the first two: (1) There is no god but Government and (2) Diversity isn't everything; it is the only thing.

Rich liberals are allowed to complain about people who actually earned their money doing actual productive work because the liberals are "enlightened" and, thus, exempt from criticism, even their own. Of course, rich Liberals also only ever earn their vast wealth (which is often far greater than comparable conservatives) by legal, moral, and honorable means. They would never accept copious amounts of money perpetuating racial hatred to maintain their own relevance. Or by exploiting the union dues of workers for their own political gain. Or by maing shady, questionable, or downright illegal land deals or other business arrangements. Or by benefiting from bribery, graft, and corruption. Or by prosecuting innocent people for a crime that never occured so that they can be elected to an important office. Or by misrepresenting, obscuring, or flatly lying about the origins of the War in Afghanistan.

And if you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Liechtenstein to sell you.

AndyR
Socialist countries in Europe:
France, Germany, the UK, Italy, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, etc.

(Note: These are all nominally "free" countries, but all of them have socialist governments. That is, the governments of those countries control a significant amount of the production either by outright state ownership or by significant controls, rules and regulations far above what you see here. France, for example, has laws limiting the work week to 35 hours (or 37.5, I can't remember which) and severely limiting the ability of companies to fire employees (sort of like the way the Government is in the US.) All socialists are not communists. Communism, as a form of government, is a much stricter form of socialism.)

Austin
The present events;Election,bad economy,socialism,etc.,have nothing to do with "Capitalism"!Americans must be made to understand;Capitalism is fine,it is the "Practice" of Capitalism,which is having difficulty.Americans must be made to understand how issues of economics and economy fit together.This is not going to be "Easy", and it will prove Impossible for any Presidential candidate.Don't try this at HOME,kids...

Tax the Wealthy
Considering that the Clintons and Obama are millionares, does this mean when they say they want to tax the rich that they intend to tax themselves?

Tax the Wealthy II
I wonder if the Clintons and Obama want to tax the wealthy - but not the super-wealthy such as themselves? That would put me and most other people in their wealthy list while excluding them.

Be afriad...be very afraid
Whenever any politician begins a statement with, "I'm gonna take those profits..." you need to wake up and pay attention. If you allow any government to decide how much profit is too much, then they can take yours as easily as they can that of Exxon Mobil.

re Chickaree & the mentally ill
Since you've brought up this topic more than once, please allow me to remind you that the mentally ill were turned out into the streets by enlightened liberal progressives who were offended that these poor, differently-abled people were being warehoused in soul-less institutions. So, rather than work to improve the conditions in said institutions, they abandoned them to the heating grates and highway overpasses. What a blessing to their quality of life liberal empathies have been.

incoherent argument
What exactly is supposed to be the contradiction here. Obama and Clinton have both made a lot of money and will continue to do so in the future. They both favor policies which will place more of the tax burden on people like themselves who make a lot of money. Under that shifted tax burden they will continue to make a lot of money.

There may be good arguments against their proposal, but the fact that they are rich is not one of them.


Teacher
The "Progressive" movement, has as it's beginning,caring for the "Mentally ill" and other less fortunate souls.It is pure "Stupidity" to make this a partisan issue.I know Americans schools are suffering,now I know WHY!!!Dumb beyond belief!

Killer
Since my comment is historically correct, your reply makes little sense. Is turning the mentally ill out into the street the progressive way of caring for less fortunate souls?

Happy Jack
"and severely limiting the ability of companies to fire employees (sort of like the way the Government is in the US.)"

So you're saying USA is socialist as well? Is any country that taxes its people socialist?

The Constitution
I do not recall any where in the constitution or the Declaration that states I have to "share" my earnings with others.
Thats why god created charities so i can "donate"
to help people in need.

Dallas
I do not recall anywhere in Obama's writings or speeches where he states I have to "share" my earnings with others.

He pays his taxes, right? This is a non-story.

ROOTS OF SOCIALISM
Socialism is a dishonorable [anti-] intellectual tradition going right back to Ancient Greece and Plato's "Republic."

According to Plato, mankind was essentially stupid and wicked. Left to its own devices, it will invariably ruin everything. Fortunately, a few individuals are better, wiser and kinder than their fellow mean. These individuals have a right, indeed a duty, to ascend to power and nobly order others about for their own good.

The great French policitical economist, Frederic Bastiat, had this to say about such "wannabes:"

"While mankind tends toward evil, the legislators yearn for good; while mankind advances toward darkness, the legislators aspire for enlightenment; while mankind is drawn toward vice, the legislators are attracted toward virtue. Since they have decided that this is the true state of affairs, they then demand the use of force in order to substitute their own inclinations for those of the human race."

and:

"The claims of these organizers of humanity raise another question which I have often asked them and which, so far as I know, they have never answered: If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? The organizers maintain that society, when left undirected, rushes headlong to its inevitable destruction because the instincts of the people are so perverse. The legislators claim to stop this suicidal course and to give it a saner direction. Apparently, then, the legislators and the organizers have received from Heaven an intelligence and virtue that place them beyond and above mankind; if so, let them show their titles to this superiority."

I rest my case.


SUPPORTERS OF SOCIALIST DOCTRINES
There are three kinds of promoters and supporters of socialist doctrines:

[1] a numerically small group of intellectuals who derive a sense of superiority out of knowing they are manipulating the situation.

[2] A far larger group of intellectuals, legislators, bureaucrats, social workers, media talking heads, and hack actors whose overriding purpose in life is to engage in public moral preening, who have bought into socialist ideas as their badge of membership of "club virtue;" and

[3] Those who have been chained to the state and promised ever-increasing amounts of other people's money in order to cast their votes for socialists at the ballot box.

Perry White
(You were right once last week. What happened??)

You said, "Rich people benefit from "the commons" to a much greater extent than the middle class or the poor."

In what way? I find that confusing because it's the rich that provide jobs and innovation. We all benefit a great deal from the wealth, intelligence, and drive of the rich.

You said, "what happens to those who lack the aptitude or wherewithal to generate or access all that latent "new money"?"

Unless "those" are unable to care for themselves, who cares? Life isn't fair. Get over it. Personally, I think it is by far more fair to let those who work for it with their brains, capital and sweat, keep it ALL.

You said, "Beyond that, how does providing health care for the masses interfere with your quest ..."

You mean, besides the burdensome and economy suppressing taxes, the inefficiency and waste, and theft from the productive?

You said, "... to become master of the universe?"

That is a cheap and irrational shot. Can't argue with ridiculousness like that.

Those poor European “socialists"
Orignally I resisted the temptation to dissect Mr. Hill's piece, but I can't resist linking to a critique that does it better than I could have:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-johnson/are-clinton-and- obama-com_b_97641.html


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