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Sunday, December 02, 2007
Austin Hill :: Townhall.com Columnist
CNN/YouTube: A New "Low" In Political Discourse
by Austin Hill
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I must begin here with a confession: I am a “gen-X’r.”

I say this with some hesitation, because I don’t fit the “slacker” stereotype of my generation (my depression-era parents raised me better than that). But I’ve certainly never been able to “relate to“ or “identify with” the mindset and the attitudes of the boomers, either, so I accept the fact that I’m on the front-end of the “gen-X” timeline and try to make the best of it.

And given the nuanced preferences and habits that mark each generation of Americans (my own included), I’m left wondering about an important question: for whom is the CNN-YouTube debate format appealing?

Seriously, who really likes this approach to presidential candidate “debates,” and why? I can’t imagine that anyone in my demographic would find it to be particularly enlightening or worthwhile, and my generation came of age in the era of Bill Gates and ever-emerging computer technology. Likewise, I don’t imagine that those in generations ahead of mine are particularly “into it” either. So is this a 20-something phenomena, or something intended to engage teenagers? What?

Ostensibly, the connection between CNN and YouTube is a media-created phenomena, intended to emulate a “convergence” of competing media formats - - the old-fashioned, uni-directional cable television news outlet joins forces with the new, hip, interactive web-based entity. Perhaps this little “experiment” has demonstrated in a new way that old and new media formats can collaborate, and thereby increase consumption for each other, rather than compete against one another and cannibalize each other.

But in terms of political discourse, I think we’ve reached a new low point.

I may be way out of step with my “generation,” but I find it embarrassing to realize that the future President of the United States - - and, therefore, the future leader of the world - - could be subjected to questions that are “asked” by a cartoon character, or a pretend snowman, or a pouty-looking college student who introduces himself by saying “..I’m nineteen, and my vote does matter…”

Some have argued that YouTube has enabled “everyday people” to speak candidly and directly to the candidates, in a way that they likely would not be able to otherwise. But I question this logic on two fronts.

First, who are these presumed “everyday people?” Are they people who are likely to vote in the respective primary elections? Or are they individuals who are sufficiently tech-suave and creative that they know how to record themselves and upload their video on a website, and are otherwise just eager to see if they “get to be on tv?” This latter category does not necessarily consist of the individuals who are likely to vote in the primary elections, and therefore determine the eventual nominees.

And most of the candidates from both major parties are holding plenty of town hall-style events in the primary states, and fielding lots of questions from prospective voters. It seems reasonable that the people who care enough to attend these campaign events are the “everyday people” who are likely to vote in the primary elections, much more so than those who flock to YouTube.

Secondly, the notion that the CNN/YouTube combination has created greater access to candidates is flawed from the get-go. Sure, anybody can upload a video to YouTube’s website, but only a small fraction of them get used in the telecast, and, thus, a small percentage of the questions actually get through to the candidates.

There is, however, one thing that the CNN/YouTube programming has impressed upon me that is valuable, if not troubling. The nature of the questions selected for the telecasts is something I can’t relate to at all, regardless of the apparent age of the person asking.

Based on the questions I’ve observed, it would seem that there are plenty of my fellow Americans who view the presidency quite differently than I do - - the president is apparently supposed to fulfill a parental, or even theological role in our lives, for some. And for others, the president is apparently supposed to be a great Santa Claus-type figure, who brings gifts aplenty and takes care of us and provides for our respective futures.

I’d like to ask all the candidates what they intend to do so as to protect human liberty, but I haven’t even heard the word “liberty” uttered from any of the YouTube videos. I may be way out of step with my generation on this point, but I don’t think so. My generation grew up listening to the rhetoric of Reagan, and unfortunately this campaign cycle seems devoid of Reagan-esque rhetoric, and ideas.

And unfortunately, an idea that is as simple, and yet as profound as liberty, doesn’t fit the format - - not at CNN, nor at YouTube.

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About The Author
Austin Hill is a Talk Show Host At Boise, Idaho's 580 KIDO Radio, and a frequent Guest Host on the Fox Newstalk Radio Network. He is the Author of "White House Confidential: The Little Book Of Weird Presidential History," And Co-Author of the forthcoming title "The Virtues Of Capitalism: A Moral Case For Free Markets" (Northfield/Moody Press, 2010).
 
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Gosh
I thought that political debate on Town Hall was
as low as it could get what with the screaming,
and name calling, and wash-your-mouth-out-with-
soap type language.

But I didn't watch the debate on CNN or any other
debate, so I could be wrong. I also don't intend
to watch one till next summer. How much of this
junk can one person stomach?

The Baron

"3. ...The Left has more of a stake in a society where the majority of people is complacent, unable to apply critical reasoning to any question, and simply pursues narcissistic and hedonistic goals."

HERE you are very wrong. The left craves uncertainity and change not always good. You talked morals earlier. I must ask whose morals?


theBaron
"Thomas Dewey and other "Progressives" predate Reagan, and they were implementing their fuzzy theories when Reagan was still an actor. The philosophical roots of the Leftist educational establishment go back even before that time, reaching back to the 1890's, at least."

And look what they accomplished. Ronnie actually over saw the distruction of the entire physical and financial structure. He dismantled the institution that took us to the moon simply by saying we will go to the moon. We could never do that now. Progress? I think not

"2. To say that conservatives destroyed California's state public education system by defunding it, presupposes that the quality of public education is directly proportional to the amount of money budgeted for it....I doubt that defunding was solely responsible for "ruining" California's public schools,"

Oh a few years of lower salaries and no respect can turn an institution in a heartbeat and it did. I never said cash = better that is nonsense but slashed funds no raises and guess what the best and brightest leave.

"but rather, there was an increase in fuzzy-headed educational theories that demphasize results and traditional educational processes in favor of victim group politics."

Nonsense those fuzzy thinkers are always there. A perfect example analogous to schools is the left said we should not keep these mentally ill people in institutions it is too expensive and in the community they would be happy. WE got the homeless problem and the large prison population. Reagan's fault? Yes but the left's fault too.

hal d
It was Al Gore, under orders from biil & hillary that set up the illegals road map for their strong surge in to this country--not GB.

That program was started shortly after bill was first put in the whitehouse by the dumbed down people of society.

Folks

Hey, Hal--remember Thomas Dewey?
Donahue, you replied to my post, in which I made the generalization that the Left have directed education for the past 50 years, with the rebuttal that Reagan as governor of California oversaw the dismantling of the fine public education system in that state. There are a couple of things to consider:

1. Thomas Dewey and other "Progressives" predate Reagan, and they were implementing their fuzzy theories when Reagan was still an actor. The philosophical roots of the Leftist educational establishment go back even before that time, reaching back to the 1890's, at least.

2. To say that conservatives destroyed California's state public education system by defunding it, presupposes that the quality of public education is directly proportional to the amount of money budgeted for it. However, we have numerous examples all around us that disprove that, from urban school districts like Washington DC and Philadelphia PA, where more and more dollars chase ever-lower test scores, to examples of private schools, that get much better results with less money than their public counterparts. I doubt that defunding was solely responsible for "ruining" California's public schools, but rather, there was an increase in fuzzy-headed educational theories that demphasize results and traditional educational processes in favor of victim group politics.

3. You don't address the distressing development of the instant gratification society, which is not an ideological issue, although in considering solutions to this trend, I state that conservative philosophy, with its emphasis on objective and enduring morality as opposed to feel-good, I'm OK, You're OK relativism, is better-suited to resolve the issue, if we ever decide that we should. The Left has more of a stake in a society where the majority of people is complacent, unable to apply critical reasoning to any question, and simply pursues narcissistic and hedonistic goals.

Hillary delenda est.

Democrats are a bunch of wimps
I think at every debate that the Democrats do on TV this year, they should be asked why won't they appear on Fox News.

I especially loved this one.
Hal Donahue writes: Sunday, December, 02, 2007 9:01 PM
Myke the pawn
"I think corporate and political worlds were shocked by how we Americans stood up against amnesty."

WOW you kept big business and fat politicians supplied with workers silly. They WANTED the law to die. Doesn't that hook in your mouth hurt? You sure showed all of then and kept those illegals coming.... You really didn't realise this? You believed Rush et al????
______________________________________________

Really? Politicians advancing an amnesty bill really wanted it to die? Especially when it is clear that future politicians - like Hillary- who come out soft on immigration might pay politically? Ya know she at Spitzer had to crawl under a rock after whole driver's liscence fiasco. Hey Hal, I think you and the rest of the MoveOn.org Dems should encourage your candidates to embrace amnesty. We'll be laughing all the way to the White House again.

Got here late, but.....
I can see some of you got to meet the resident troll, Hal. You know the guy who plays down the issue of illegal immigration and then calls himself a "moderate". The guy who thinks the central issue of a parent rubbing out their own offspring is "a poor woman's legs". I'm curious, Hal, do you think the central issue in rape is "the man's right to do whatever he wants with his own body parts"?

I'm sorry many of us can't post as much as you do, Hal, but -unlike most Democrats- we have jobs.

for bobbit
bobbit writes: "So someone who is against terminating the lives of innocent babies, thinks women should keep their legs together until marriage, or believes a mother and a father are crucial to a child's development is a "bible-thumper"? Talk about generalizations. There are other reasons out there for a person to believe that way. The first being the difference between right and wrong."

There is a place for moral lectures and there is a separate place for national politics.

Don't think you can LECTURE the American people on morality and then expect them to turn around and vote for your party and your candidates. Jimmy Carter found that out the hard way in 1980.

It's one thing for Republicans to set a good moral example and behave in a moral way (which they too often don't do: Foley, Vitter, Craig, etc.) But that would help a great deal.

It's quite another to try to tell young female voters "You are behaving disgracefully and immorality by not keeping your legs together....Now please vote Republican in the upcoming election."

Good luck with that.

bobbit
".... The illegal act is minor in and of itself but it carries many negative ramifications to the country and I do not need to list them all here as they have been listed ad nauseum."

This is one issue I have skin in the game on but that aside being that you admit being an illegal alien is minor it is the numbers that are the problem. If everyone jay walked in our large cities there would be more accidents and injuries and if we all parked where we like the roads would be impassable. Digesting immigrants is the challenge for us as we may have allowed too many to enter all at once. The more serious crime here is hiring illegal aliens. Then enforce the more serious crime and much of the rest of the problem goes away. But you republicans attack the those invited into the country rather than those causing the problem. Guess what no jobs soon equals few aliens. It worked for most of our history. The sad nasty truth is two fold: businesses contributed to fundamentalist conservatives especially Bush big time so we will not accuse them or make them pay and second read almost any conservative blog and many comments have a very nasty even racist undercurrent

Hal again
More cr@ppola from you Hal. Illegal immigration is like jaywalking. That's rich. I would say that is your opinion and a misguided one at that if that is what you truly believe. The illegal act is minor in and of itself but it carries many negative ramifications to the country and I do not need to list them all here as they have been listed ad nauseum. Needless to say like so many libs you just like to put your head in the sand and make ridiculous pronouncements about things you obviously know or care little about.

JD's Handsome Son
"You gotta lot of nerve, Colonel, calling anyone a sissy in here while you've got Hillary's heel print on your back and as you squat at the feet of Ms. Huffington swooning over Wesley Clark's blue blazer."

LMAO THAT is really wonderful LMAO. Thank you for sending me to bed laughing. You really could have posted that anytime I wouldn't hurt you but to wait until you thought I was gone is priceless.....

bobbit
"More misrepresentation. Long before Reagan was Governor and ever since the Peoples Republic of California has had a majority Dimowit legislature. You know the body that makes laws and appropriates money to the state's education system?"

BS and I lived there then. Go read history. That is like saying Iraq is Congress' failure not the Bush Regime's.

"You always come here with your psuedo-intellectual air but the truth is you are just a Democrat shill who spends a lot of time preening on the Huff 'n Puff post when he is not here revising history to suit his agenda."

I love personal attacks as a substitute for facts. You truly are a fundamentalist conservative.

Now I really must go but do have a great evening


HalD
More misrepresentation. Long before Reagan was Governor and ever since the Peoples Republic of California has had a majority Dimowit legislature. You know the body that makes laws and appropriates money to the state's education system? Perhaps he should have vetoed more of the bills that were passed but they were not authored by Ronald Reagan. You always come here with your psuedo-intellectual air but the truth is you are just a Democrat shill who spends a lot of time preening on the Huff 'n Puff post when he is not here revising history to suit his agenda. As a shill your supposed viewpoints have no credibility. I've said this to you before: you seem so intelligent yet you are so wrong about so many things. Makes me wonder if you simply are not very intelligent or if you are just extremely dishonest?

bobbit
"I have read you posting many many times about how illegal immigration is Bush's fault. I am no great Bush fan, think his imimgration view stinks, and I am only an average authority on US History, but can you please explain to me how GWB is responsible for the problem and also what part he played in the amnesty deal in the '80's?
And wasn't that a Kennedy thing? "

Simple Bush failed to enforce the employer ban on employing illegal immigrants. That opened the floodgates and essentially invited immigrants in. They came by the thousands. 80's if you look were roughly the same BUT amnesty for what? It is barely a crime. May I ask why you do not want more people to come in if they work, produce and become part of society? Why after over 200 years do you think now we need to close the borders? My thoughts are resolve the situation. Amnesty is a misleading buzz word. We essentially invited the people in and we used them and we let them stay. Who is at fault here? I find it amazing that conservatives create a problem like immigration but then start screaming for someone to fix it. And conservatives did creat this problem - no excuse of the Bush Regime's first four years.

bobbit
"So someone who is against terminating the lives of innocent babies, thinks women should keep their legs together until marriage, or believes a mother and a father are crucial to a child's development is a "bible-thumper"?"

It isn't the issues so much at least to my way of thinking it is the strident refusal to compromise combined with overall nastiness. Terminating the live of actual babies is against the laws of the land and most believe terminating potential babies should be against the law or restricted at some point in a pregnancy but that is not the law of the land. WHY is what a woman does with her legs any business of yours. Believes a mother and father... believe away but stay out of everyone else's home and bedroom.

"The first being the difference between right and wrong."

By whose decision here we go back to some poor woman's legs

"Libs always have to obfuscate and create a bogeyman to keep the troops in line. If the voters learn the truth the Dims are toast."

THAT is exactly what you conservatives did with god, guns and war now you are trying to do it with immigrants - you cannot see that?

"Why else do Dims always act as if they are conservative to attract the center?"

We are the center you have drifted so far right you can't see it at all can you?

"Unfortunately because of our wonderful education system they are able to keep up the charade since most people are too busy dealing in feelings to pay attention to facts and use critical thinking. Because of that they come up with arguments like yours."

LMAO on that note have a great evening folks and be well

HalD
I have read you posting many many times about how illegal immigration is Bush's fault. I am no great Bush fan, think his imimgration view stinks, and I am only an average authority on US History, but can you please explain to me how GWB is responsible for the problem and also what part he played in the amnesty deal in the '80's?
And wasn't that a Kennedy thing?

SteveL
Man you are so full of it today. So someone who is against terminating the lives of innocent babies, thinks women should keep their legs together until marriage, or believes a mother and a father are crucial to a child's development is a "bible-thumper"? Talk about generalizations. There are other reasons out there for a person to believe that way. The first being the difference between right and wrong. Libs always have to obfuscate and create a bogeyman to keep the troops in line. If the voters learn the truth the Dims are toast. Why else do Dims always act as if they are conservative to attract the center? Because if the truth came out no one would ever vote for them. Unfortunately because of our wonderful education system they are able to keep up the charade since most people are too busy dealing in feelings to pay attention to facts and use critical thinking. Because of that they come up with arguments like yours.

nanna
You are now in possession of knowledge that will make your visits here more pleasant.

bobbit
that was Churchill

SteveL
Perhaps you never heard the saying (from Winston Chamberlain I believe) "if you are young and not a liberal - you have no heart. Yet if you are older and you are not a conservative - you have no brain." That my friend is why the GOP does not attract youngsters by the droves. They have yet to get beyond their idealism into the workings of the real world. When one has a career, spouse, family, and home they tend to fall in line more with conservative principles. I will however grant you that being a Republican and being a conservative do not necessarily go together in 2007.

Save Your Country


We have run out of time on the illegal alien inundation. We either stop it now or we lose our country. Rudy won't do it. He thinks it's impossible to enforce our laws. I want someone who doesn't.

The GOP cedes their best issues by running Rudy. He agrees with Hillary on abortion, gays, guns, and amnesty. I want someone who doesn't.

America is worth saving. Vote conservative.

Well
This seems to have turned into a Hal D blog, so I think I will quit, and watch some television.

Had I wanted his blog, I would have looked it up and gone there.

nanna
" You are so totally inconsistent that I don't think that you know what you believe.

You are against illegals, you are for illegals. You want welfare states, you don't want welfare states. It depends on what the person you are arguing with says at the time. "

Actually not true. For example illegals there can be no hard fast answer to my mind. We invited them here by letting them enter and employing them. I think at this point we prosecute the companies employing them i.e. criminal charges for companies that hire tens of employees under the same SSAN. Healthcare for example is selfdefense. If contagious then if not treated, or charged if they are, they will hide and spread the disease. The very simple nothing for no one will increase crime and the spread of disease for a starter. Second, if they work hard and produce and have for years why not make an arrangement that let's some stay if they like. They are proven people.

"You sir, are a phoney!! You just want to argue, just like Robert. You don't want a true discussion, you just want to argue about each and every point anyone makes, whether you make any sense or not."

Hard and fast rules seldom provide the best or most effective answers.



I find it











really strange, that I can read over your posts Mr. D, and this is over several days. You are so totally inconsistent that I don't think that you know what you believe.

You are against illegals, you are for illegals. You want welfare states, you don't want welfare states. It depends on what the person you are arguing with says at the time.

You sir, are a phoney!! You just want to argue, just like Robert. You don't want a true discussion, you just want to argue about each and every point anyone makes, whether you make any sense or not.

You have busted yourself for what you are. An insignificant Nincompoop,without a true clue on anything relevant.

Drained brain for sure!!

JD's Handsome Son

"Liberals contributed nothing to any great American achievements. They certainly had nothing to do with our space program. They were in the streets tearing down the country and bellyaching that all the NASA money should have gone to welfare payments, to people already on the dole."

Really LOL hmm how about victory in WWII? Liberals were the heart and soul of the space program shall I go on.... I love the way you folks try to change history like Rove saying congress forced them to invade so quickly. No actually they bellyached about all the money being wasted in vietnam for no return. Sound familiar?

"Burn this mother down!" "Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh!" Can you hear that, Hal? That's what your side contributed back then."

Sigh my side were policeman and organisero and contributing to society pretty much while the YAF were getting exceptions from having to go to war Cheney is a great example what was it? 5 for having something else to do. The very core of you war lovers calling for war avoided your own war.

"Past waves of immigrants certainly added much to America because they got jobs, worked hard, learned the language, and didn't ask for in state college tuition, free medical care for them and their entire families, free housing, tax credits and a whole host of transfer payments at the expense of legitimate citizens and then tear down American flags."

I hope you are young because if you aren't you lived under a rock. Give me a Latino or Hispanic worker any day. They work their butt off ask for little and do a great job for the most part like a lot of US workers. Learned the language? Did you read my link above? Not until the second or third generation. The past immigrants took everything they could get and then some BUT like this wave probably will they gave FAR more than they took,

Myke the pawn
"I think corporate and political worlds were shocked by how we Americans stood up against amnesty."

WOW you kept big business and fat politicians supplied with workers silly. They WANTED the law to die. Doesn't that hook in your mouth hurt? You sure showed all of then and kept those illegals coming.... You really didn't realise this? You believed Rush et al????

Myke
"Hell if he was our choice now I would still vote for Bush. "

Considering what you wrote I can believe that LOL

Immigration
I think corporate and political worlds were shocked by how we Americans stood up against amnesty. We may not have the fence built yet but we will get it. More and more Americans are waking up to politicians and big business. They can't slide it by us anymore when we had only their newspapers and news stations only gave us what their leaders wanted us to hear.
Illegals have threatened us with a don't go to work day. What would hurt more a We won't do business with places that hire illegals day or their no work day. We are not allowed to wash our own cars in my city because of the water shortage. We have a car wash nearby that hired only illegals. I no longer go there. And apparently everyone else feels the same say because it did a booming businss and now there is noone there. I don't care if I have to kick dirt off my car to get in it, I won't go there. I also no longer have a gardener. And I do feel sorry for the illegals who worked there. But instead of demonstrating in our streets they need to demonstrate in the streets of Mexico and make their corrupt government create decent paying jobs for them instead of letting American big business come into their country and pay their people slaves wages.

IMMIGRATION
The Drivers licenses that Hillary wanted and then didn't want will not make illegals buy Ins. They can't afford car Ins because of the money they send back to their country and because of the low wages the racist big business's pay them.
Anyone who cannot see what damage illegals do to us should just buy a white cane with a red tip and some earplugs.

nanna: Perfect example...

Poor ol' halD... I think you made a good point.. they've drained all of his brain at huffpuff...

Too bad!




Trulib
Thank you. Yes I am no longer writing to trolls.Just in case anyone doesn't already know this NumbersUSA lets us send free faxes to our representatives and they are fighting amnesty and open borders.

debate
Our choice when we voted for Bush was between him and a man who threw his military medals in the fire and then said no he threw someone elses medals in the fire. The man who called our soldiers rapists and baby killers. A man who got two purple hearts but never spent a day in sick bay. A man who's main objective was to marry wealthy women. A man who claimed he would bring American companies back to America but couldn't even convince his wife and her family to bring their 13 Heinz companies back to America. Hell if he was our choice now I would still vote for Bush.

Myke
I appreciate it when I see someone wise up to the trolls.

Upland Patriot
How do you know the family depicted on the sign is illegal? I do think it is unjust that thousands from other countries have to wait in the legal process and watch the Hispanics jump the border. Taking more from the European countries makes sense as they are assuredly better educated and in a position to contribute more to our society than people from Mexico and points south.

Securing the southern border is becoming even more important given events in Venezuela. Many will be leaving there as a result of the destruction of freedom by Chavez and it is inevitable that many of those will try to sneak into America.

HAl
I would rather go hunting with Cheny than driving with Ted Kennedy.
And I agree. I am not writing anymore to a troll like you. You are a complete boor who likes to argue for the sake of arguing not about facts. Only your opinion counts and you don't let facts get thru.
Correct we only got amnesty stopped and nothing has changed. But we are trying to save America. Something you can't say.
As for not fighting to get people from Sudan here? This has proven that you are sniffing glue. You are probably so used to being pushed around that you welcome the nanny state that Hillary offers.

nanna

"But I don't want a socialist government and have government telling us everything to do, and giving us everything."

That would be your government not our government. We don't care who you sleep with or how. We don't like abortion but we far more don't like the government in our homes and bedrooms. We think everyone should have as equal an "opportunity" as everyone else. You know, you look at the revolution and constitution that is pretty much what it says

" I don't want to be taxed to death to deliver it to the hands of the government like they are the only ones capable of spending it properly. "

But you should want to "pay it forward". You were educated to the best your parents and community could do and you had roads and utilities to the best the community could provide. To my mind you owe the same to future generations and I hear so many Conservatives plainly trying to skip out on that debt.


nanna
" Yes I am a troll

"He can screech all day about illegals and how they should be able to come here unfettered. "

I do believe like Huckabee alluded to we have standards and we should not betray our past because we are frightened

"He doesn't understand that if we have a president that was supposed to be conservative, and protect us, and our borders, but doesn't , we are just as angry at him as we would have been had it been Clinton."

Not true. Bush is all yours - ALL. He is exactly what you get when you elect a fundamentalist conservative - incompetence and the inability to work with others.

"But the liberals will follow their liberal, socialist leaders off a cliff like lemmings, with never a complaint. And if someone talks about the bad things they have done, they rage in defense of them."

Not this moderate at least, nanna

"We are not happy with Bush, and what he has done about the borders. He lied, plain and simple, he is not living up to his oath of office."

I put to you he NEVER has...

Debate
Also just saw that Obama is ahead of Hillary in the caucus. So she is smearing him. Typical.

Upland Patriot
"Yeah Hal, taking in millions of Muslims from extremist countries is a good idea. Just ask France."

They stood with us shoulder to shoulder. See that is exactly my point about conservatives, they will do anything and use anyone but never return the favor or pay the debt. Put very simply many of them risked thier lives on the street with our troops and now we will not allow them in. All I can say is shame. Living in fear must be a terrible thing. Didn't Teddy roosevelt give an excellent comment about the man in the ring?

"I noticed on one of your posts that you are a Grandpa, congrats. (Really) But, you are an old 60's hippie trying to rekindle the old days right?"

LOL sadly during those good old days I was in the military and a policeman far, far from a hippie

"The man" is bad. Do you yearn for your youth and look back at the days when you had hair and smoked "grass" everyday?"

See above LMAO I was "The man".

"Hal, destroying America will not make you feel better in the end, you and the rest of your democratic friends just think it will."

Now here is the big divide! we see you folks as haven taken Reagan's shining city on the hill and dragged it down and covered it in mud and slime. We want to restore the country to that shining city...

Peace.

HAL
It's apparent you don't read English. I said English should be our country's language. I didn't say we should not know or speak another language.
Also I didn't say you had to say Merry Christmas. I didn't mind the words Happy Holidays till they told us we should use that instead of Merry Christmas so we didn't offend anyone. I am sick of this overboard political correctness. I have Mexican friends. I say to them Felice Navidad. And they say Merry Christmas. But if a candidate wants to speak Spanish then let him run for Pres in his own country. And it has also been proven that multilanguage countries do not work. As I said before please educate yourself instead of spouting ignorance. You sound like a Hillary clone. I just saw the fine male population of Sudan raving in the streets to execute the British schoolteacher who dared to name a Teddy Bear Muhammad. I wish you and Hillary would go negotiate with them since they are so respectful of women. And if you and Jim think we all said Happy Holidays then you and he don't know many people.

Quit feeding this troll
Hal D has just turned into another troll that only wants to argue. He can screech all day about illegals and how they should be able to come here unfettered.
He doesn't understand that if we have a president that was supposed to be conservative, and protect us, and our borders, but doesn't , we are just as angry at him as we would have been had it been Clinton.
But the liberals will follow their liberal, socialist leaders off a cliff like lemmings, with never a complaint. And if someone talks about the bad things they have done, they rage in defense of them.
We are not happy with Bush, and what he has done about the borders. He lied, plain and simple, he is not living up to his oath of office.
But I don't want a socialist government and have government telling us everything to do, and giving us everything. I don't want to be taxed to death to deliver it to the hands of the government like they are the only ones capable of spending it properly.

Hal our pal 2
Yeah Hal, taking in millions of Muslims from extremist countries is a good idea. Just ask France.

I noticed on one of your posts that you are a Grandpa, congrats. (Really) But, you are an old 60's hippie trying to rekindle the old days right?

"The man" is bad. Do you yearn for your youth and look back at the days when you had hair and smoked "grass" everyday?

Hal, destroying America will not make you feel better in the end, you and the rest of your democratic friends just think it will.

Peace.

nanna
"... Kind of like someone with a gun shooting in all directions, just hoping something is out there for them to hit, or that it will ward off the nasty boogy man. "

Ahh like Dick Cheney LMAO good one nanna

Blaming the wrong people
Seems that the lowered discourse you fret about was set by your candidates. It may make it easier to deal with to blame the venue, but the fault lies in the rotten choices standing on stage making belligerent fools of themselves.

Upland Patriot
"One thing I don't understand about libby's is why they do not want our laws enforced. Look, legally allow ten million new immigrants a year."

Not true we want good laws and we want them enforced but being an illegal alien is hardly a crime in even the broadest sense. All we have to do is competently (ooops sorry I know you folks can't be competent based on this Bush Regime) enforce our laws something that has not been done.

Upland Patriot 2
One important question for you. Why do you feel it is okay that tens of millions of hispanic's come here illegally, but seem not to care that millions of black Sudanese, Darfurian's suffer? Why don't you fight for them to come here? Is it because they're black and not hispanic?

If I were to fight for anyone to come here I would fight for the Iragis in harms way that we will not let into the US and Europe is taking. Iraqi supporters and the military/veterans are the two major groups abused by this Bush Regime and treated like Vitter's and Craig's used tissues


Poor Hal
He's really digging now folks. Can always tell when a lib starts to get green around the gills. They start swinging indiscriminately. Kind of like someone with a gun shooting in all directions, just hoping something is out there for them to hit, or that it will ward off the nasty boogy man.

Upland Patriot
"Yes Hal, "that" was smart. The so-called Comprehensive immigration reform was an amnesty bill."

I will ask yet again. Amnesty from what? Under the law being an illegal alien is only as criminal as a parking ticket.

"Go to http://www.heritagefoundation.com and you will have lots of links to look at. Many describe the enormous costs associated with the amnesty bill."

Yes you are absolutely right the costs are very high even though Heritage exaggerates them tremendously. But the other side of the story NOT TOLD is that every wave of immigration cost like this and nearly every major study says the return on that investment was returned at least 100 fold.

"You can also log on to Senator Jeff Sessions website and he also speaks of the enormous costs and problems associated with the bill."

No bill is clean but now we have nothing. You extremists didn't settle for a partial answer now with more later. You wanted all or nothing - nothing is what we got. The immigrants are still rolling in. You folks here remind me of all the leftists who were screaming and calling me names for supporting Bob Casey. Did Bob Casey support all my views? Heck no but Bob supported a lot of my views and most important he was a man I could trust to try and do the right thing even if we didn't always agree.

"You are by no means "moderate", at best you are a left wing whacko, at worst you're insane."

I respectfully submit you are oh so wrong.

TruLib, leave the humor...
to a professional. However, in San Diego there are signs that depict an illegal alien family running across the freeway. Sort of like the beware of deer crossing signs that adorn highways in rural areas.

One thing I don't understand about libby's is why they do not want our laws enforced. Look, legally allow ten million new immigrants a year. I would suggest to make it more fair to all those who would like to become citizens of this great country. You know, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, Muslims etc. Why do you libs only want hispanics here? Little racist don't you think?

JD's Handsome Son 2
"Leftists always seem to find some misguided dupe in uniform or once in uniform to hold out as represenative of the military. Then these chumps are discarded like old whores after they're used. Ask John Kerry."

There is some truth to that I guess. Ollie North disgraced his uniform and violated his oath of office and the fundamentalist conservatives sure have taken good care of him. Us moderates just have to get along on our own. Go to http://www.votevets.org there are a lot more of what you call "dupes" and I call heroes.

"Hal's in for a big letdown some day. Go easy on him folks. "

Actually, I have had it. I lived to see GW disgrace the nation and the military. Who EVER would have thought some coward in the white house would EVER support torture and crimes against humanity.

JD's Handsome Son
"To Anne and Other Hal Opponents
Anne, and others irritated by Hal, you do need to check out some of this guy,s posts on Huffington."

You should have given them the link again.

"I'm curious what makes a once winged warrior such as Hal feel so comfortable subordinating himself to mush headed old women allied with our enemies."

Really now who would that be? Name names please

"Hal comes in here with all his zingers and leftist scripts . Like all liberals, he has no solutions, merely complaints and finger pointing. Liberals produce nothing, they only tear down."

Really? Hmm well we did land on the moon, we did win the cold war (and on't say Reagan did that) D's and R's did that at great cost in money and blood

"On one of his recent blogs he reported on his visit to a Hillary function. He was gaga over seeing Wesly Clark in a blue blazer and described in intimate detail Gen. Clark's attire. It was just a wee bit too much."

Ouch, sounds almost as bad as Bushie looking deeply into Putin's deep blue eyes. Good point I will watch that in the future

"This guy suffers so much from hero worship and his idolization of Hillary that where he once used to aggravate me, I now "pity the fool"."

Hillary is the best choice but Obama would work also but Hillary is by far the better because she is more experienced plain and simple. But Obama should be president one day.


Hal left wing whacko or....
Hal writes "Is that why you fought so hard against Bush's immigration bill that would have at least slowed it down? You stopped anything being done at all. Was that smart?"

Yes Hal, "that" was smart. The so-called Comprehensive immigration reform was an amnesty bill.

Go to http://www.heritagefoundation.com and you will have lots of links to look at. Many describe the enormous costs associated with the amnesty bill. You can also log on to Senator Jeff Sessions website and he also speaks of the enormous costs and problems associated with the bill.

You are by no means "moderate", at best you are a left wing whacko, at worst you're insane.

One important question for you. Why do you feel it is okay that tens of millions of hispanic's come here illegally, but seem not to care that millions of black Sudanese, Darfurian's suffer? Why don't you fight for them to come here? Is it because they're black and not hispanic?

Coo-koo

Myke
You might find this interesting: "One survey of enlisted Latinos shows that fewer than 40 percent were born in the United States to U.S.-born parents. " America Magazine, published by the Jesuits.

Anne
Hal D probably comes over here for some intelligent conversation for a change. Hanging around HuffnPuff all the time has to be a real drag with all that shallow, childish, speak must be brain draining.

Myke
"Also, I did not appreciate hearing an American candidate answer a question in Spanish. What did he say...screw the Gringoes. We let an Islamic official be sworn in using the Koran instead of a Bible."

Serious not baiting question, why exactly does that updset you. Americans speaking only one language has proven over and over again to be a national security weakness. Do we all have to be christians?

"I must be in a nightmare. This is getting too crazy to be true. And every time someone says "Happy Holidays" to me I say "Merry Christmas". "

JIm may appreciate this. As long as I can remember Happy Holidays was what we all said meaning christmas week and new years.

Anne
She was being booed because she would not guarantee to do that in the first 100 days

IMMIGRATION
Hillary couldn't care less about illegals. She is sucking up to them for votes. She learned that from Bush. Also, I did not appreciate hearing an American candidate answer a question in Spanish. What did he say...screw the Gringoes. We let an Islamic official be sworn in using the Koran instead of a Bible. I must be in a nightmare. This is getting too crazy to be true. And every time someone says "Happy Holidays" to me I say "Merry Christmas".

Upland Patriot: Agreed! 100%
,

jim
"I appreciate your comment, but as I said it wasn't perfect at that time, but we didn't hear of it all the time either."

Growing up in the urbin northeast diversity was all around us. It was the engine that drove society and culture. With the exception of perhaps the Chinese, every growing and expanding society was VERY diverse. Everyone looking and behaving the same seems to sap energy from society now that I think about it.

"I remember the most unusual thing that happened in High School was one time a Catholic appeared. We had never seen one before."

And where I came from everyone seemed to be Catholic. I know what you mean. In basic training the one black kid had never seen a white kid and the one ND white kid had never seen a black.

"I still say that if people were more concerned with culture, so many problems would never have appeared, or happened."

But would things have changed and grown?

"Just remember, in your childhood, as mentioned in that link, it wasn't that anyone really hated people ... it was stupid on the part of the hater, but too often the newcomer did nothing to help the problem."

LOL so true and many like now take some pride in doing it

"Remember, race and color are the identifiers, not the target. You could have a dozen phone calls with a person, and have nothing but the best of feelings for him/her, but then you meet and find out they are a liberal, or whatever/whoever, and that's all it takes. "

But should it? I do have quite a few friends who are very conservative - we thnk we are both crazy

I did like Fred Thonpson's
statement that "the Federal government should cut off funds to sanctuary cities." I live in the epicenter of the illegal alien movement. (Los Angeles area)

The mayor of Los Angeles speaks half the time in Spanish. Many schools (public tax payer funded) speak to their students primarily in Spanish.

Many emergency rooms have closed. Our freeways are over-crowded with illegal aliens.

Upland Patriot: Oh, and halD asks the

SAME questions time after time after time... which is why I refuse to provide him with any information...

And you're right, he just cannot seem to think outside the liberal box he's in...

He actually think Gurtha Murtha is just a swell guy! :-(






Anne
"halD: NO you didn't...Lied again
Vic gave you the link days ago....

Stop being such a jerk!!!!!!!!!! "

Sorry but when he did that I went and the numbers have no detail they are made up out of air

Upland Patriot: No one can figure out

just why halD posts on TH so often....

He's clearly a liberal and supposedly posts and writes for huffpuff... So, there ya go!

Pretty much he posts the same four or five things... just variations on the same themes...


Go figure!




Upland Patriot
"Hal our pal...
I was wondering if anyone here knows what and where Hal comes from. He posts often, but never makes sense."

This might help: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue

"Hal says with conviction that the illegal immigration debate is akin to jay-walking and that no one cares. Umm, yeah Hal, whatever. "

Not what I said at all. I saisd as crimes go being an illegal alien is a minor infraction akin to a parking ticket. People here make it seem like murder 1 but in the legal code it is a VERY minor offense.

"So Hal my pal, listen to others besides the losers on AIR America. Try and stay away from the Daily KOS or the Hugo Chavez blogs, you might learn something new."

Hey I am here and I listen to Rush and I do have a pretty open mind I think. You know,well maybe you no longer do, I am your normal moderate

"And lastly, realize that absorbing one hundred million new immigrants over the next twenty years will hurt America. Think outside your tiny box. "

Is that why you fought so hard against Bush's immigration bill that would have at least slowed it down? You stopped anything being done at all. Was that smart?

GLASSER
I agree with you. I think the only way we can stop this is for each state to start taking action. The government wants open borders. They try to stop the states that are taking action. There are a couple people who are adamantly against amnesty. But the problem is they don't have big business behind them. They don't have the power to beat the front runners. Amnesty is only the prelude to a North American Union. And when that happens, America is doomed. I spend hours trying to talk to people and send petitions and send faxes and emails and calls to any politician or anyone else I think might at least read my letter. Now I send it to the representatives office but I write to the person who opens the letter. To maybe have a chance of one more person knowing what is going on.
I don't have children or Grandchildren but I still worry about America's children.

And while your at it halD, check out
mccullough blog.....

Clinton BOOED in Iowa for promising "Path to Citizenship for Illegals in her first 100 days!"

http://kevinmccullough.townhall.com/blog/g/baebf8ed-6437-4c 1c-bc52-0b979cfc4249


There's the LINK!!!!




Myke
Maybe you answered it and I didn't see it yet but why do they even nedd "amnesty" for what amounts to a traffic ticket?

halD: NO you didn't...Lied again
Vic gave you the link days ago....

Stop being such a jerk!!!!!!!!!!




Hal our pal...
I was wondering if anyone here knows what and where Hal comes from. He posts often, but never makes sense.

Hal says with conviction that the illegal immigration debate is akin to jay-walking and that no one cares. Umm, yeah Hal, whatever.

Is he anothe Daily-Kos troll seeking attention? I feel sorry for our pal Hal. He is so self righteous and comes across as ignorant.

So Hal my pal, listen to others besides the losers on AIR America. Try and stay away from the Daily KOS or the Hugo Chavez blogs, you might learn something new.

And lastly, realize that absorbing one hundred million new immigrants over the next twenty years will hurt America. Think outside your tiny box.

IMMIGRATION
Think about the future of your children and your Grandchildren. Even now it is difficult for a young couple to make ends meet and have children even if both of them are working. Think about how it will be since the government has refused to make English our language. Think about when they are competing for jobs with millions of people who will work for lower wages and live 36 people in a 3 bedroom home to make ends meet. People from India are working high tech jobs for lower wages. People who used to own carpet/tile companies are hiring illegals for lower wages and plus they don't pay any benefits or workmens comp. Landscapers hire illegals for slave wages. And now some illegals have started their own businesses and pay illegals low wages. Salvation Army fired two people who didn't speak English on the job. Now the illegals are suing them. I for one expect the donations to Salvation Army to drop. Illegals make $15 an hour in construction. Jobs Americans used to work. But since they don't have to pay workmens comp it saves them approximately 29% over people who do pay workmens comp.

Anne
"Right, you're not always on top of everything... Look it up!"

I did it is not true


Myke
"At Ellis Island immigrants were given a stringent health exam. If they didn't pass they didn't get in."

Well not exactly true many went to Canada and walked down. Some of my ancestors did that but it was way before Ellis Island

"Illegals are bringing diseases into this country. TB is back, Leprosy is back, even chicken pox is back. Diseases America had practically eradicated."

Hang on you will get angry a lot of that is due to global warming and a big chunk of that is due to all the left and right wing parents saying I will not have MY child innoculated

"And what of all the millions or people who have waited years to come here legally? They are left out because of the illegals streaming across our borders."

Actually I think they are coming too. Remember the influx you have the most complaints about keep here to be very cheap labor for Bush supporters

halD: I'll say the same thing you

said to others...Look it up!

Do your own homework!

And remember, you didn't know about the DEMO wanting to cut vet benefits...


Right, you're not always on top of everything... Look it up!






Give it up
They were ALL planted questions.
And news flash: They always are, if you think about it.

I can't see the problem. It did give us a glimpse beyond what we get in the usual format, which is that we get to hear their prepared soundbites.

And why would y'all want the dems to get practiced up ahead of time for something like this? Wait til it counts!

Folks/Anne
Sorry I had to step out on very important business. My granddaughter called from abroad but I will try and respond to every comment

Anne: "26000 innocent people killed on US soil by ILLEGAL ALIENS"

Show me the data case by case from what I saw at that site and the Congressman's it is like Rudy's I would be dead if I were English with prostate cancer

ANNE
Hillary was for the war. She backed it all the way. She says she will bring the troops home but admits we will be in Iraq for many more years. Bush/Kennedy want amnesty. So does Hillary. They want amnesty and open borders so does Hillary. Hillary wants complete and utter power in goverment. So did Bush. I still don't know if Hillary said she is for drivers licenses or not. But I think she is because when you apply for a drivers license you are asked if you want to register to vote. We know Bush wanted amnesty and is doing everything is his power to get it. He took money away from building the fence. He stopped ICE. He put two Border Guards in prison for shooting an alien drug smuggler who by the way was caught again recently smuggling drugs into the country. All the Dems and some Reps are for amnesty even tho they know biggest percentage of Americans are against it. Who do we vote for to save America. God help me I don't know.
But I would like to think that when it is over our flag is still there.

ANNE
Hillary was for the war. She backed it all the way. She says she will bring the troops home but admits we will be in Iraq for many more years. Bush/Kennedy want amnesty. So does Hillary. They want amnesty and open borders so does Hillary. Hillary wants complete and utter power in goverment. So did Bush. You can see the arrogance in Hillary. She thinks she shouldn't have to run and be asked questions. She thinks she should be crowned. She wants a nanny state. Pelosi wants to tax our 401's because she said there are millions of "undocumented" workers out there who need our help. I still don't know if Hillary said she is for drivers licenses or not. But I think she is because when you apply for a drivers license you are asked if you want to register to vote. We know Bush wanted amnesty and is doing everything is his power to get it. He took money away from building the fence. He stopped ICE. He put two Border Guards in prison for shooting an alien drug smuggler who by the way was caught again recently smuggling drugs into the country. All the Dems and some Reps are for amnesty even tho they know biggest percentage of Americans are against it. Who do we vote for to save America. God help me I don't know.
But I would like to think that when it is over our flag is still there.

IMMIGRATION
We are putting in foot baths in our colleges so Islamists can bath their feet five times a day before praying to Allah. This same Allah that wants all infidels dead. But we can't say God in our schools. There are so many Islamists,legal and illegalin Europe that Europeans are fleeing their countries out of fear. A few years ago in London Islamists demonstrated in the streets carrying signs that said all Infidels must die. Islamists just sentenced a British school teacher to 40 lashes for letting a kid name a Teddy Bear Mohammad. And in the streets there were thousands of men in the street celebratin and cheering this. Am I the only one that scares?
With open borders there will be so many Islamists coming into this country that Osama will be able to arrive in the back of an open convertible. And the power and wealth of the elites who are causing this won't impress him.

Immigration
Americans are some of the most kindhearted people in the world.We give billions of dollars to charities. We give billions of dollars to other countries because they show us pictures of starving children. If there is a disaster in other countries we are right there with money. Right now people from India are coming here for free college. My Rep Senator does not believe in amnesty or open borders. But he says that after the peoople from India finish free college they should be allowed to stay here because they might even find a way to cure cancer. So if all the billions of dollars Americans have donated to Cancer charities haven't been able to find Americans who can cure it then why do we still send them money? He says schools from 1-12 grades are superior to ours but American colleges are superior. This tells me we should use the way India runs their schools as an example and also makes me wonder why a country as wealthy as India won't build colleges?

Myke: Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?
.

Debate
If you vote for Hillary there will be another Bush as President.

And then there are the 26000 innocent

people, right here on US soil, who have been KILLED by ILLEGAL ALIENS in the same amount of time (since 3/03) that 3500 US SOLDIERS have been killed in Iraq while fighting a WAR!

Let me repeat that: Since 03/2003

3500 US soldiers killed fighting a WAR!

26000 innocent people killed on US soil by ILLEGAL ALIENS!







IMMIGRATION
The only way we can help the illegals is in their own country. Do you like the statement that former Mexican Pres made that "Wherever there is a Mexican that is Mexico"? And his statement that they take jobs that "even blacks" won't take. Was there no racism in that statement. Yes racism against Americans.In case some of you don't already know about this site...go to NumbersUSA. They let us send free faxes when we were fighting amnesty. They are trying to help us save America.
To be legal an immigrant must speak and read English so why do we have ballots in Spanish? In some states illegals can vote.God help America.

HAL
Another comment from a person who will let America be destroyed by sticking to his party no matter what they do. I am not talking about a party. I am an Independent. I am not a racist like big business who steals jobs from Americans and exploits illegals for low wages. And some politicians who would sell their soul for a vote. And Hollywoodites who want cheap gardeners and housekeepers. Those people are the racists. Ask them how much they pay their servants. Some unions are backing Hillary. They see all these illegals joining unions. When amnesty passes there won't be any unions. There are no unions in Mexico. Amnesty means there will be open borders and with all the people who come here from different countries there will not even be enough land to hold them all. And wages will drop for everyone.

Immigration
Why is Hillary avoiding the press. Reporters say they can't get near her or ask her any questions. Why? Becaise she doesn't want to be asked what she means by "comprehesive immigration".

race and color are identifiers
jim writes: Sunday, December, 02, 2007 4:17 PM
it was certainly better

The page came up this time
==========

Hal Donahue writes: Sunday, December, 02, 2007 3:55 PM
jim

I appreciate your comment, but as I said it wasn't perfect at that time, but we didn't hear of it all the time either.

I remember the most unusual thing that happened in High School was one time a Catholic appeared. We had never seen one before.

A nice young lady, but wow, did we ever watch to see what she ate on Friday.

I still say that if people were more concerned with culture, so many problems would never have appeared, or happened.

Just remember, in your childhood, as mentioned in that link, it wasn't that anyone really hated people of other races or colors, but those races and color items were the identifier, and that reminded people of what they have heard or experienced with people of that race or color. Most of it was stupid on the part of the hater, but too often the newcomer did nothing to help the problem.

If someone who looked like a "regular" citizen, but was actually one of "them" appeared, the policeman would not have bothered until informed of his "mistake" with something other than the look of the person.

Remember, race and color are the identifiers, not the target. You could have a dozen phone calls with a person, and have nothing but the best of feelings for him/her, but then you meet and find out they are a liberal, or whatever/whoever, and that's all it takes.


IMMIGRATION
Hillary wants Universal Health Care. Medical Ins Cos are backing her candidacy. The government has done so well with Medicare, Medicaid,IRS, VA. Gee lets let them take it all over. Illegals get free health care while our troops returning home can't get the care they need from VA. Find out the truth about the Universal health care in Cuba. Not the lying movie that Michael Moore put out. He filmed private hospitals that the citizens aren't allowed in. Only the wealthy.
When amnesty is declared the once illegals are going to find that they won't have it as easy as they once did. America will be overrun and we will all be fighting for low wage jobs. The health plan that Bush (and I an not a Bush fan) covered illegals. She should have named it Mexicare. And when they become legal there won't be any more free rides. No more free breakfast and lunch at schools. They are being used just like we are. Government is noted for cutting programs like that for Americans.

We ALREADY HAVE a Nat'l. ID Card!

It's called a Social Security Card... complete with number that tracks you until you die!

What we need is a Nat'l. ID card that cannot be forged or stolen and stipulates if you are a CITIZEN (eligible to vote) or NOT!

But, apparently the same people (halD!) who get ballistic about a secure Nat'l. ID card have no problem with the government having access and CONTROL over your health care... Ummmm?

That logic, or lack thereof absolutely escapes me!


HAL AND WWSWORD
http://newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty306.htm

I ask you a favor. Go to this site and find our what illegals are doing to this country right now without amnesty.

When will the Republicans ever learn?
When will the Republicans ever learn that the propagandists in the liberal news media are not their friend? This farce of a debate on the Clinton News Network proves this for the millionth time.
Now I guess you could say that it proves that the Repubs have more guts than the cowardly Dems who refuse to debate on the Fox News Network. And maybe it is a good thing because it shows the world again what a bunch of lying liberal jackals the news media is.
However, I sincerely hope that the next time CNN offers to sponsor a GOP debate the Republicans spit in their faces.

Immigration
At Ellis Island immigrants were given a stringent health exam. If they didn't pass they didn't get in. Illegals are bringing diseases into this country. TB is back, Leprosy is back, even chicken pox is back. Diseases America had practically eradicated.
And what of all the millions or people who have waited years to come here legally? They are left out because of the illegals streaming across our borders.

HAL
You can go to the site ...Immigrants against amnesty and you will see there are many Mexicans and other immigrants who came here legallay and are against amnesty because they know what it will do to America. Are they skinheads too?

HAL
Are you calling 85% of Americans skin heads? When the Kennedy/Bush amnesty came up so many Americans sent faxes, emails and phone calls opposing amnesty that we shut down the system. If you watched the debates and the graph you saw that when McCain said we he wants sealed borders the graph shot up but when he said we have another immigration problem it lowered and when he said we have to show compassion for "the children" if bottomed out. Did all those voters in that audience look like skin heads to you?

immigration
Does anyone really believe the politicians are concerned with illegals welfare? Do they try to raise wages for them to give them a better life? No. Big business has exploited them for years for low wages.They can only be helped in their own countries not by turning America into Mexico. You can forget the fence. They are not going to build the fence. There are terrorists and drugs coming across the border but that's okay because they figure after the next election they would only have to tear the fence back down. If they were interested in building the fence they would have already done it. I don't know what you think is along the lines of jaywalking but I don't think Hispanic gangs, gunning down 4 America teenagers, killing and raping children are any where close to jay walking

it was certainly better

Hal Donahue writes: Sunday, December, 02, 2007 3:55 PM
jim
And we almost certainly would be speaking Rusian or Chinese.

How silly, the only purpose of any military should be to protect that country’s borders.

=====
you say, No,no that high tax low pay socialist welfare program era? Why then?,

I was there, I didn’t say it was perfect, but it was certainly better. I hate to think of it this way, but I really do believe that the vast increase in communication is not all good. We didn’t hear of every husband-wife fight, tornadoes were almost unheard of -- not that they didn’t happen, we just didn’t hear of each and every one of them.

These days when you hear of the terrible things that TV is talking about, you know that soon you will hear the copy-cat crime.

==========

you say
Well several problems there we could not maintain our lifestyle or our economy for just a stat.

Name one??

===========

You say What if your culture is a strong mix of cultures like ours is? Here is a bit of my personal experience:

So name me one cultural item you can find anywhere in the world that you would like to bring to our country, and which one of ours would you destroy.

And that page won’t come up.

The debate was great ...
CNN was exposed for what it is.

As to the candidates, who cares?

Hillary in her own words, "I have more ideas than we can afford." Roger that. ABC ... Anyone But Clinton.

stupid questions
prevent time for discussion of the real issues. What constitutional power does a president have to act on most of the tripe brought up at this so called debate? It was a dog and pony show, which is exactly what CNN wanted.

HAL
All Dem candidates say they are for comprehensive and some Reps say they are for comprehensive immigration. This means amnesty. Have you done any research at all on amnessty. Are you still naive enought to think thatamnesty is not a prelude to open borders? Do you think the NAU is a joke. It is real. There are elites in this country who want open borders at Mexico and Canada. They want to turn us into a third world country and live in lavish homes on the hill and look down on poverty just as Mexico and India do. The emplement of this started with Nafta, the Sea Treaty is part of it. Amnesty is part of it. Open borders is part of it.

The Questions Not Asked
In his piece, Mr. Hill refers to “a 20-something phenomena” and to “a media-created phenomena.” That should be “phenomenon” when referring to just one.

Regarding Hill’s premise, I’m less concerned about the technology used than the questons NOT presented to the candidates. Where were the references to issues that actually matter in our lives, such as health care and the environment? Americans are increasingly aware that our health-care system is broken, and unless Republicans want to simply hand that issue over to the Democrats, they have to come up with some kind of solution that both meets the need for change and fits into their alleged free-market principles.

WWSWORD
I have all my life had friends of different races. The racists are the employers of Illgals who exploit them for low wages for years. Mexico and India are wealthy countries. The "owner" of Mexico just passed Bill Gates in wealth. If it isn't too much trouble for you , WWSWORD type in wealty Mexicans to prove this. Hillary gets millions of dollars in campaign money from India. She had promised them outsourcing will never stop while she is telling us she will bring jobs back to America. Type in Hilary Clinton and India to get the proof of this instead of blindly following your party's lies.

Myke
"The Dem candidates only say they support "comprehensive immigration" translated amnesty. "

Now please tell me again why anyone would need amnesty for an offense that ranks below jay walking on the legal totem pole. Also, I am not certain but don't polls show a huge split between D's and R's concerning immigration?

WWSWORD
Give up sniffing glue and do some research on what amnesty will do to America. It is all there for you to find. They are taking down our flags at the highschool and running up the Mexican flag. They are not in the shadows (Hillary) they are in your face demonstrating in our streets. They say they will take over America because we are old tired white people who quit having babies. Most Americans are responsible enough not to have babies they can't afford to feed. And they don't get free Dr care and hospital care. It costs us so much to pay for illegals babies we can't afford to have our own, especially when they are stealing our jobs with low wages.

jim
"No, my favorite subject along this line would be to remember the wonderful country we lived in during the mid 20th century."

No,no that high tax low pay socialist welfare program era? Why then?

"As I have insisted for 60 years, a country consists of a Border and a Culture and if you mess with either, out you go...That would take care of the immigration problem, and would have kept us out of Iraq, and brought our military home from Germany, Korea, and all those other places we shouldn’t be."

And we almost certainly would be speaking Rusian or Chinese.

"I am an isolationist, and a conservative, and a nationalist, and what a wonderful world we would live in if everyone in the world thought the same of their country, and didn’t insist on leaving home and screwing up their destination."

Well several problems there we could not maintain our lifestyle or our economy for just a start..

"I love other cultures and have visited about 70 of them. But remember, “multiculturalism” is a misprint, it should be spelled “murderculturalism,” as that destroys a culture. Multiple cultures within a Border does not improve anything. "

What if your culture is a strong mix of cultures like our's is? Here is a bit of my personal experience: http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=1872 5185&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=590572&rfi=8

WWSWORD
Hillary Clinton twice visited Hispanic neighborhoods in Las Vegas. She told the culinary union she would walk the picket line with them if they had to strike. I saw a picture of the that part of the culinary union. Not a white face of black face among them. A spokesmand for Station Casinos said if we deport illegals he will have to fill 50,000 jobs.There are plenty of Americans who would make beds and do kitchen work for a decent wage and benefits. Illegals say they only take jobs Americans won't do.No they are scabs who take jobs that Americans won't do for slave wages just like the scabs who crossed the picket lines to work when coal miners were striking for more wages and safer conditions.

qualification for voters
CapeConservative writes: Sunday, December, 02, 2007 3:38 PM
I also agree with other posters
that there should be some qualification for voters other than breathing.
=============

You want a test provided by the Teacher's Union?

CapeConservative
"And if we don't soon get a national voter ID card, we will NEVER have an honest vote. How can we all use ATMs around the world but the sophisticated US government can't design a secure voting card?"

LMAO OK, OK unless it is a joke, you must change your name. You call yourself a conservative yet want a national ID card? Not to mention with chips no less. Please go back to the 50's period and look at the discussions about national ID Cards. Do the words: "Your papers please" have any meaning at all to you?

WWSWORD
Where in hell have you been? Anyone who can say Immigration is not an important issue to Americans is certainly not keeping up with the news and done no research on what immigration can do to our country. The Dem candidates only say they support "comprehensive immigration" translated amnesty. They won't say anything about it but Hillary got thrown on the drivers license question. Then she says they played gotcha. "gotcha" is getting caught when lying. If you tell the truth noone can play "gotcha".

multiculturalism is murderculturalism
Hal Donahue writes: Sunday, December, 02, 2007 3:31 PM

And your favorite subject would be death and dying?
=============

No, my favorite subject along this line would be to remember the wonderful country we lived in during the mid 20th century.

As I have insisted for 60 years, a country consists of a Border and a Culture and if you mess with either, out you go.

That would take care of the immigration problem, and would have kept us out of Iraq, and brought our military home from Germany, Korea, and all those other places we shouldn’t be.

I am an isolationist, and a conservative, and a nationalist, and what a wonderful world we would live in if everyone in the world thought the same of their country, and didn’t insist on leaving home and screwing up their destination.

I love other cultures and have visited about 70 of them. But remember, “multiculturalism” is a misprint, it should be spelled “murderculturalism,” as that destroys a culture. Multiple cultures within a Border does not improve anything.

I also agree with other posters
that there should be some qualification for voters other than breathing.

And if we don't soon get a national voter ID card, we will NEVER have an honest vote. How can we all use ATMs around the world but the sophisticated US government can't design a secure voting card?

I remember last election hearing of elderly voters who voted in Florida and New York - just to be sure their vote got counted! How much of this fraudulent behavior goes on?? I'm sure we would all be very disappointed to learn the facts!

Something must be done
to prevent these "follies" in the future!

I agree with others that I would have supported 100% the person with enough class to turn around and walk away from these ridiculous questions!!

I realize they would have faced a multitude of naysayers calling them any and everything but brave, but to me they would have shown the nation they are willing to stand up for their values.

Until worthwhile questions are asked, I heartily suggest that Republican candidates at least "pass" on demeaning questions and request one worthy of a presidential candidate!

Personally I don't give a hoot what type underwear any of them are wearing!!!

Jim
"But back to CNN and YouTube. As in the case of the Literary Digest, only those idiots who go on something like YouTube (I’ve never been there) would be interested in sending in a question, and only those who are familiar with that web site, would appreciate such stupid nonsense."

Excellent point and I think true even given the needless diression. They should be younger, more educated or perhaps a better word adapted to the elctronic world. The questions would be skewed by population make up. Rush screamed ambush but I suspect you are more correct.

"Next time I hope they have video questions from the participants on “YouPorn,” (I’ve never been there). Then no one would care about the questions, and the lefties could enjoy their favorite subject."

And your favorite subject would be death and dying?

TheBaron
"The Left, who are in the driver's seat in education, long ago abandoned the concepts of learning that guided previous generations. Successive classes of students have been taught what to think, rather than how to think. At the same time, our society has become increasingly devoted to instant gratification."

Ahh see around the time that you were born I think it was 1966 a guy named Ronnie became CA governor and started the "Conservative Revolution". CA at that time had the best education in the country. The conservatives dismantled it piece by piece. The simple fact is education is starved of both leadership and money. CA schools now rank with the south as the least capable in the country. Why is that do you think? I have my own ideas but I would like to hear yours.

Next time You Porn, not You Tube
Back in the 1930s the magazine "Literary Digest” took a famous poll concerning Roosevelt and Landon. the problem was they mailed 10,000,000 poll questionnaires to people who had a telephone, and asked them to mail in the answer.

Well, at that time in history, only the more wealthy had a phone, and only the people most interested in the election bothered to mail it back.

Therefore this very famous poll was a disaster, their poll winner “Landon” lost, “FDR” won the election.

By the way, a joke I remember from Grade School during that election, “Why won’t Roosevelt fly in an Airplane?” Answer, “He’s afraid of Landon.”

And without a newspaper, no radio, no Time Mag, and really no TV either, we all were well aware that FDR was in a wheelchair, but his apologists to day still deny that anyone knew.

But back to CNN and YouTube. As in the case of the Literary Digest, only those idiots who go on something like YouTube (I’ve never been there) would be interested in sending in a question, and only those who are familiar with that web site, would appreciate such stupid nonsense.

Next time I hope they have video questions from the participants on “YouPorn,” (I’ve never been there). Then no one would care about the questions, and the lefties could enjoy their favorite subject.

Upland Patriot
"How do you and other pro amnesty advocates explain that 77% of the Democrats and 85% of Republicans stopped the plans for drivers license's for illegal aliens. Stopped the Comprehensive immigration reform bill? Is everyone but you a racist Hal? "\

Did I say I was "pro amnesty" nope But you are really losing it here. Rush et. al's illegal is illegal rant really worked and got peoples' attention as did the word amnesty. Both, while not technically lies, they were definite exaggerations. As a crime, illegal alien ranks with a parking ticket or jay walking in the legal code. Is amnesty usually given for this type of "crime"? Hmm well maybe it is - I was given amnesty by the meter person because she saw me coming. The people are learning all that now. Next they should probably be shown the crowds at the anti-Ilegal alien rallies

"Hal... read a little. The last four administrations have done nothing about the illegal immigration debaucle."

There was no debacle until this century. You read a little. The laws against employing illegal aliens were not enforced by this incompetent Bush regime. That amounted to an invite.

"This includes your God Bill-boy Clinton. We have a Democratic controlled congress who have done NOTHING the last few years."

FEW???? and you tell me to read? LMAO and 10 years of R congresses did what? LMAO

"So quit your Al Sharpton, race-baiting type attacks on those who consider our illegal immigration problem important. "

I do consider it very important and you stopped the last attempt to address the problem so now NOTHING is being done - smart that...

"You still ....it's easier for you to just dismiss debate as racist or xenophobic."

Well I don't fit much in all that name calling but know this if the shoe fits wear it. I do not dismiss debate but I do dismiss hysteria which is what is going on right now


YouTube "debate": What we deserve
As a fellow late-Boomer, or a Gen-Xer, depending on whose definition (I was born in 1964, so I can claim both), my observation is that this newest form of "debate" is precisely what we deserve.

These circuses are debates in name only. They ceased long ago, even by late Fifties or early Sixties to be actual debates in the forensic sense, with arguments and rebuttals.

But what we have now is the result of a convergence of trends, in education, in entertainment and technology.

The Left, who are in the driver's seat in education, long ago abandoned the concepts of learning that guided previous generations. Successive classes of students have been taught what to think, rather than how to think. At the same time, our society has become increasingly devoted to instant gratification.

So, fewer and fewer people have the inclination to spend time to learn what candidates really think. Instead, we get a political version of "The Dating Game" on cable, with a row of candidates presented with inane questions (c'mon, really--Do you think the "debates" were any better in 2004, or 2000, or in any of the election years going back to Nixon vs Kennedy? What real substance was there?), who answer in snappy comebacks that make good sound bites.

We're getting exactly what we deserve. With the intellectual laziness that abounds these days, it's only going to get worse.

My hope is that those of us who make the effort to inform ourselves can somehow band together, so that when we reach that critical mass of lazy ignorance, when the many can no longer understand the society and the technology that our ancestors bequeathed us, we'll be able to come out of the collapse and pick up the pieces.

All told, I'd rather be a Morlock than an Eloi.

Hillary delenda est.

Reply to Phil's brother Hal
Regarding immigration, Open border Hal writes: "Actually WWS isn't crazy at all. The 20 or 30% of voters who are fundamenatist conservatives and then the clear racists see immigration as a hot issue."

How do you and other pro amnesty advocates explain that 77% of the Democrats and 85% of Republicans stopped the plans for drivers license's for illegal aliens. Stopped the Comprehensive immigration reform bill? Is everyone but you a racist Hal?

Hal... read a little. The last four administrations have done nothing about the illegal immigration debaucle. This includes your God Bill-boy Clinton. We have a Democratic controlled congress who have done NOTHING the last few years.

So quit your Al Sharpton, race-baiting type attacks on those who consider our illegal immigration problem important.

You still did not answer my questions because like many liberal limp-wristed, Jimmy Carter loving, anti-American, don't ask don't tell pundits, it's easier for you to just dismiss debate as racist or xenophobic.

Now I will let you go back to reading your favorite Hugo Chavez biography while listening to Bab's in the background.


Oh boy
As usual, Mr. D is so full of it that it is beyond addressing!!!

Upland Patriot
"Just answer me a few questions: Does the United States of America have a right to enforce immigration laws?"

Yes it does but the Bush regime did not do that; it looked the otherway with near zero enforcement which ammounted to an invite toimmigrants.

"Does the U.S. have the right to remain sovereign?"

This is a nonsense question on its face

"Why do you say that those who want current immigration laws enforced are nativists and xenophobic? "

Many, many are. Please spend an hour or two on any conservative blog addressing immigration and it is immediately clear that a virulent strain of racism runs throughout most discussion. At several anti “illegal” immigrant rallies in Pennsylvania, the crowds were heavily made up of neo-Nazis, skinheads and assorted “other” white supremacist organizations and members.

CNN chose the 30 questions out of 5000
It should not matter how dumb the people submitting the questions appeared -- it should matter what we think of CNN.
CNN carefully reviewed 5000 submissions and chose 32 or about the "top" or "bottom" 0.64%.

Does CNN think the questions and the questioners reflect the intelligence of the audience or just the Republicans in the audience or were the questions chosen to mock the Republicans or just their supporters or the entire audience?

This entire show reminds me of another "elite" Democrat --Senator Kerry.
Remember the episode in the last election with Kerry, in his new hunting boots, saying "Is this where I get me a hunting license?" That is what the elites in the Democrat Party think of all of us. I will never understand why average Democrats support them -- must be government schools.


Upland Patriot
Actually WWS isn't crazy at all. The 20 or 30% of voters who are fundamenatist conservatives and then the clear racists see immigration as a hot issue. The rest of us want the immigration challenges addressed and illegal immigration restrained. Don't forget, it was your very own fundamentalist conservative GW whose incompetency created the problem

PS. wwsword
You must read way too many of Ruben Navarette's blogs. "CNN used the last debates as a means of throwing a bone to Lou Dobbs' xenophobic nativist fans."

Pro open border people like you and Mr. Navarette use the words "nativist and xenophobic" when you cannot defend a position.

Just answer me a few questions: Does the United States of America have a right to enforce immigration laws? Does the U.S. have the right to remain sovereign? Why do you say that those who want current immigration laws enforced are nativists and xenophobic?

It's My Choice
So I opted to not waste my time listening/watching to the CNN/Youtube jingle-jangle. Knew I would hear enough, to my way of thinking,through readings and Foxnews's 15 min. round table segment on Bit Hume's Speical Report. The "Every Man" category of questioning showed some major flaws, so it didn't work out so well for CNN, again! The staged and planted junk is such a turn-off.

WWS word is out of touch...
wws said "During the last Republican debate, CNN spent 35 minutes on the question of immigration, an issue that Americans are not particularly concerned about. It is way back in the list of issues the public sees as most important."

Are you kidding me? When the shamnesty bill was being considered Americans shut down the phone bank in congress. The entire country was in an uproar.

The Gov. of New York had to back down after mostly Democratic voters went balistic after hearing his plans of giving drivers license's to illegal aliens.

Estimates of 100 MILLION new immigrants arriving in our country over the next twenty years is very important. So wws, what planet do you come from?

I don't know
What debate you were watching. But I saw a skewed debate where some of the Republicans rose above the stupidity of YouTube.
Fred did not stumble around on the question on illegal immigration, and made a wonderful answer.
Also, on the "cutsy" flag question. He said that the kid should be able to hang any flag he wanted to in his house, but not in public, because of what it represented to some people.

I totally agree with Anne that these were questions from spoiled, arrogant brats.

These are brats that have been taught by left wing professors, and communist idealists. Not being taught about our wonderful real heritage, and what a wonderful country we live in, and how serious the vote is for this country. They are being ignorant, and disrespectful to the most important appointment in the free world. And I am sick and tired of it. Nothing is sacred anymore, everything is a joke, a party, a riot, something to be totally disrespected, from our Bill of Rights, our Constitution, to our religion.

CNN Helping Republicans
It's revealing the way CNN worked with the Republican Party to appeal to the narrowmindedness of party followers and downplay or leave out altogether the issues that concern most Americans.

During the last Republican debate, CNN spent 35 minutes on the question of immigration, an issue that Americans are not particularly concerned about. It is way back in the list of issues the public sees as most important.

Most important for the public is the Iraq War. CNN, which helped sell the war, doesn't ask tough questions on that subject. The other top issues - economy and health care - likewise receive little critical attention in CNN's debate questions (whether they are selected from YouTube or wherever).

CNN used the last debates as a means of throwing a bone to Lou Dobbs' xenophobic nativist fans. Dobbs is CNN's big program, and they mean to promote him. Thus the character of the debate was about promoting Dobbs and his anti-immigrant agenda.

Packrat
Your right, the questions were unfair.

my point is, if they had a position to fall back on, any of the questions would have been easy to answer.

After the debate, I thought Huckabee won. Then I watched it again and decided it was Ron Paul. He actually answered the questions and held a position.

The others, all had the same opportunity and failed miserably. Romney was the absolute worst. I was embarrassed for him, to have publically behaved like a moron. Fred Thompson is right up there, especially in regards to the confederate flag. Now being a voter in SC and understanding the meaning of the flag as a symbol of freedom from oppression and not about racism, as those elite yankees would like everyone to believe. Fred lost a huge base of supporters. A coffee shop I frequent, even took his signed picture off the wall and threw it in the trash.

So, again I say, just answer the questions and who cares where they came from.

Hal Donahue
"Actually they could not say how they really felt because their support would be halved from the right or left"

You got me there. Let me think a moment for a defense and consult with my lawyers and experts in the field............Ok you win, they said.
:-)



REAGAN & SARKOZY

.....When Reagan didn't like the way the talks at Reykjavik were going ...he got up and walked out ...

.....When French President Sarkozy didn't like the questions on 60 Minutes ...he got up and walked out ...

.....Both of those men have earned my respect ...if one of the Republican candidates had got up and walked out of that ridiculous circus that CNN put on ...he would have earned my respect and most likely my vote ...instead they stood there like dolts and continued to be embarrassed by asinine questions that had nothing to do with the duties of the President ...where have all the real men gone? ...

...Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio
...A nation turns its lonely eyes to you ...
...Woo, woo, woo ...
...What's that you say Mrs. Robinson
...Joltin' Joe has left and gone away ...
...Hey, hey,hey, ...hey, hey, hey ...

.....COLOSSUS

.....

.....

Hill sounds jealous
Not only jealous but out of touch. I'm 44 and a college student. The number one complaint I hear from younger people is that they have no say in politics. No wonder the youtube debate is popular, a chance for a nobody to ask a question from anywhere. There will be no Presidential candidate appearance here in MT I'm sure. Ok, so it's not the greatest, but it does put more of a feel that the little guy matters. I'm sick of the experts running this country, asking the questions, as if they know what is important to us out here in MT.

JD's Handsome Son
"How do you have the time to come into Townhall with all your bootlicking over on Huffington's blog?"

Sigh your guys did look pretty weak at the CNN debate didn't they. I will say the tap dancing was very nice though...

"You must be another of these retired military guys with a confused identity. "

????

pandm
"It is getting hard for Americans to remember that we once had a Democrat Party. "

LMAO oh we are still the Democratic Party. I guess now that you fundamentalist conservatives have destroyed the Republician Party you would like to start on ours?

CNN LIED
CNN and YOUTUBE claimed that these were going to be real questions by Republicans for Republicans.

Instead they were bogus questions by stealth Democrats selected by media Democrats.

No value for the GOP primary voters.

Anderson Cooper, you looked like an idiot. You are better than that.

And what was with the singing guy?

CNN + YOU TUBE = 0

hal donahuey
The average IQ of Republican voters is 8% higher than communist party voters. , like you!!

It is getting hard for Americans to remember that we once had a Democrat Party.

Packrat
"Re just answer the question:

Have you stopped beating your significant other?

When?

See , there are questios that are either not fair or that you dod not care to answer because of how they are framed."

Watch any viable candidate reframe a question in a nano second. The problem wa they could not give an answer like healthcare and education for the children of illegal immigrants

pandm/stevel
"The youthful voters, that have been dumbed down will probably vote for the communist party, but the more intelligent ones will stick with the Republicans."

Shall we compare education levels of the blue and red states?


JohnLemski

Re just answer the question:

Have you stopped beating your significant other?

When?

See , there are questios that are either not fair or that you dod not care to answer because of how they are framed.

What's Wrong with Gen Xers?
Speaking as one, I'm not a slacker, served in a war, and, at the age of 36, have moved out of my Dad's house.

I don't share the prevailing notion that the internets is the best place to share your life story, nor is it necessarily the best marketplace of ideas, what with the network of tubes and all.

Just shows that Repub candidates have the cojones to go into the belly of the beast, unlike the hermaphrodites on the Dem side. I agree that the "BVD" questions are demeaning, but that's just modern politics, forever soiled by the Der Schlickmeister.

JohnLemski
"Where the qustions came from, is irrelevent. The candidates just had to answer the questions. Simple.
They did not answer very well and waffled right before our eyes. If these questions were plants, so what. They very easily pointed out that these men are lacking leadership skills and have no positions, but have dual positions."

Amen to that but look at the spinning done on TH

"I was watching and a very large audience of the public was also watching. The questions were not the problem, it was the candidates and their responses. They shifted and squirmed and had no back bone. "

Actually they could not say how they really felt because their support would be halved from the right or left

Whine with your next cheesy debate?
You miss the whole point of CNN's mission. In my earlier years in school, I'm pretty sure I was told in some journalism class the "who, what, when, why and how" structure of a news story, that all the information should be front loaded into the first paragraph or so, and write on a third grade level so the least of us can understand the story. They were perfect in conforming to true journalistic rules.

1) They flashed the CNN logo along with the title of "Republican Candidate Debate" taking care of the "who, what." 95% of the Republicans and a stunning 10% of Democrat voters realized that the "when" was "then" while the other 5%/90% thought they were watching America's Most Wanted since they turned off the Daily KOS blog and were surfing cable for the Jerry Springer Show. And, the "how" and "why" was contextual in the presentation.

2) All the information you really needed to know was frontloaded when they announced "This is CNN, my name is Anderson Cooper" and "We'll be fielding questions from YouTube." Would it have been any less telling if Jerry Springer and his goons populated the moderator's area?

3) Do I really need to explain the "third grade level" concept?

Suggestion for alternative format: Moderator: Jeff Probst Location: A desert island in the Pacific with bugs and snakes. Let's treat the Repubs with some dignity, CNN, and quit cowtowing to your base viewers.

CNN, Credibiliy, Opposite ends
If CNN had any credibility prior to the debate they sure don't have any now. The format, the selection of the questions, and General Keith Kerr. Now matter how you look at this debate CNN does not look good or even have any credibility as a news network.
If anyone wants to make a case that CNN does not have any credibility as a news network just point to the Republican debate that occurred on CNN on 11/29/07.


stevel
The youthful voters, that have been dumbed down will probably vote for the communist party, but the more intelligent ones will stick with the Republicans.

The lower the IQ, raises the chances of voting for the communist party.
We will see how dumb the young are, won't we

SteveL: Sweeping generalization???


"But now they've been scared away by the Bible-thumping social conservatives who, like poster Mike here, express a genuine contempt for youthful exuberance."


Sorry, I have no clue how you figure "Bible-thumping social conservatives" have scared young people about or from anything.

And, I think you're confusing "youthful exuberance" with uncontrolled, undisciplined, spoiled children who grow up to be uncontrolled rude, arrogant, abhorrent adults, which is what I believe Hill is talking about.



for Anne
Anne writes: "And, by the way.....the Clinton plant, was not in fact a Brigadier General and served only in the reserves."

The planting was not the fault of the YouTube format. Planted questions have already happened in other forums in this campaign, as you know.

If anything, the more traditional "town hall" meetings that the candidates have been holding are nearly worthless because MOST of the questions there are planted--by the candidates themselves. The questions are softballs designed to give the candidate maximum opportunity to talk about the things that make him look best.

The YouTube community definitely skews younger than the typical Republican these days. And guess what, that's the fault of the GOP, not YouTube.

I can remember a time when young people in college were very pro-Reagan and thought it was cool to be conservative and support Republican ideas. Everybody wanted to start their own high-tech company and become an entrepreneur, exactly what Republicans had been advocating all those years.

But now they've been scared away by the Bible-thumping social conservatives who, like poster Mike here, express a genuine contempt for youthful exuberance.


There hasn't been a debate yet
I don't care what format a public presentation takes -- media-originated questions or YouTube style from a bunch of people who display remarkable lack of intelligence: Until candidates have about 10 minutes per candidate, per issue, there is no debate. There is only a series of soundbites geared to attract a high number of viewers.

Anyone who genuinely wants to learn what his favorite candidate supports and plans to do had better prepare to do a lot of his own research. It certainly is not "out there" for easy taking.

be glad

be glad we live in a republic and not a democracy

for Mike
Mike writes: "The little twit who said I'm 19 and my vote counts is the typical attitude of the self-centered, narcassistic little jerks that the feel good parents have raised."

Polls are now showing that the GOP is losing youthful voters to the Democrats. That's a reversal of the 1980s and 1990s, when young voters were drawn to a message of economic freedom and economic growth.

And people like you are part of the reason why. You hold the younger generation in such contempt, don't expect any of them to vote Republican. The polls show that the typical GOP voter skews older than the typical Democrat voter by about 10 years. I hope you're happy with the GOP being the party of only older married white Christians--because that will ensure its minority status for the rest of the 21st century.

Remember something: None of us OWES the Republican (or Democrat) parties our votes. If the GOP can't appeal to youthful voters, then it's the fault of the GOP, not the youthful voters. Those youthful voters are, as they have always been, America's future--that 19 year old voter will likely be alive (and voting) after you and I have passed away.

Maybe that's your problem: You're jealous of the young.

TeeHall: CNN + Youtube + Google

"... you dumb Republicans candidates?"

But, here's the thing...

It's perfectly okay for the demo candidates to refuse to debate with FNC hosting... No big deal!

However, if the Republican candidates refused to debate on CNN, they'd have been castigated, drawn and quartered, and then skinned alive by the media... No win situation!

So, that's really what it boils down to...

demos = No big deal!
Republicans = No win situation!


CNN + Youtube + Google
Was there ever any doubt about the outcome? CNN is very well known for its leftist leanings. Youtube is owned by Google, also know for its leftist leanings and selective results. So was there ever any doubt -- you dumb Republicans candidates? Why accept a bank check without a signature?

The bottom line.
Where the qustions came from, is irrelevent. The candidates just had to answer the questions. Simple.
They did not answer very well and waffled right before our eyes. If these questions were plants, so what. They very easily pointed out that these men are lacking leadership skills and have no positions, but have dual positions.

Any of the front runners would be destroyed by a crafty lawyer, such as Hillary and it became self evident. They are weak, they are ignorant and they have a warped grasp on reality of public opinion. As far as I'm concerned, this was a good debate.

It showed a ridiculous amount of favortism towards the front runners and ridiculous amounts of time given.

I was watching and a very large audience of the public was also watching. The questions were not the problem, it was the candidates and their responses. They shifted and squirmed and had no back bone.

Embarrassed
The little twit who said I'm 19 and my vote counts is the typical attitude of the self-centered, narcassistic little jerks that the feel good parents have raised. It lends credence to the fact that not everyone should have a vote. To vote you must be paying taxes either individually or jointly. If you are on the government dole, no vote. The only good thing is that these sweeties will be paying my social security, another Democrqatic boondoggle.

Dumbing down
This is a perfect illustration of "Dumbing Down". Our education system has, for the most part, substituted feelings for real learning. A system raising people "in touch with their inner self" who can not find Kansas on a map.
Now we have this shallow format designed by a biased media outlet to evoke feelings rather than elict substance.
It should be the perfect structure for the democrat party primary debates and the eventual nominee's national campaign.

My 2 cents and a dream
With this format we have lowered the standard ever lower. Can it possibly go even lower? I honestly thought (hoped, prayed?) we couldn't get any worse 16 years ago when Bill Clinton was asked what kind of underwear he wore, but I was wrong - the dumbing down of America continues unabated, in fact it is picking up speed.

But I can't stop wondering what would happen if some candidate were to CHALLENGE that - someone in a clown costume stands up and asks a stupid or loaded (or BOTH) question and the candidate challenges him/her/it to take this whole thing SERIOUSLY. How long would it take before that were all over the networks?

Phony is Phony
Interesting. A phony journalist calling other journalists phony. How does one know?

The CNN/Youtube debate was an

embarrassment to the media, the candidates, our Founding Fathers, our government, our political system, and every US citizen.

Hill is absolutely correct!

And, by the way.....the Clinton plant, was not in fact a Brigadier General and served only in the reserves.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/blog/Default.aspx

"The plant, Kerr was retired from the INACTIVE ARMY RESERVES in the grade of colonel. With the exception of a few years served on active duty as a lieutenant, his entire service was in the reserves in california. He was placed in retired reserve status with the california national guard reserves and promoted to brigadier general in that federally unrecognized status.

"This is considered an 'honorary' title similar to the PhD awarded by universities as honorarium."


Can there be any question that CNN is in fact, the Clinton News Network? I think not!!




There are reasons to support electoral
With the impending illegal immigrant majority in the pool of voters, I am glad the Founding Fathers had the foresight to create the electoral college idea. We might need to reinstall it in all states again (I think some states are bound by the popular vote, now). There is also a growing void between the average American, and what is really going on, thanks to the slipstream media. We are in big trouble when God gets tired of the growing rejection of Him, by the average American, and turns His back on all of us. I gotta go throw up.
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