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Sunday, September 16, 2007
Austin Hill :: Townhall.com Columnist
"Bad News Is Good News": It's More Than A Cliche'
by Austin Hill
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It may be the “cliché that won’t go away.” But it lingers - - and for good reason.

It seems like good news from Iraq is, at the very least, not-so-good news for Democrats in Congress.

In the aftermath of General David Petraeus’ recent report to Congress about our military‘s engagement in Iraq, responses from the political left depict a sad, if not potentially dangerous set of conditions.

The horrific Move-On Dot Org advertisement in The New York Times, which sought to malign one of our military’s top brass by referring to him as “General Betray-Us,” marked a new low-point for “anti-war activists.” The tragedy of this event was further heightened with the news two days later that the New York Times sold this specific advertisement to Move-On Dot Org at a discounted rate.

But most disappointing, and most dangerous, were the responses from sitting members of Congress. Senator Hillary Clinton, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee and a hopeful to be our next President, commented to General Petraeus “the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief."

Now, why is this so? Why, necessarily, is Mrs. Clinton’s starting point one of disbelieving an esteemed Army General?

Granted there are so-called “independent reports” on conditions in Iraq, and some of the data coming from those reports present a much more dire picture than does the Petraeus report. But the presupposition that a Four-Star General is necessarily lying, or is behaving in such a way as to try and sell a particular President’s political agenda, smacks of an anti-military ideology.

And this is bad for America.

There was, of course, a day and an age when both our major national political parties were, essentially, united on foreign policy and national security issues. Disagree and debate as we may about domestic agendas, fiscal policy and so forth, the disagreements ended at our nation’s shores. And even when there was disagreement on the details of foreign policy, the debate remained at home, so as to ensure that America appeared as a united entity abroad.

Entailed in this sense of “unity” were some specific presumed beliefs shared by a majority of Americans: that the United States is a good country with a noble influence in the world, and it is worthy of being defended; that a strong military is necessary for our nation to be adequately defended; that service in the military is a good and noble thing; and that those who do serve in our military are fulfilling a high calling, and worthy of our respect and best assumptions.

Arguably, these beliefs appeared present among both major political parties for most of the last century. It’s difficult to argue that President Truman or President Kennedy were, in any significant sense, “anti-war” or “anti-military.”

Yet, things seemed to change among the Democratic party during the Viet Nam war. Cynicism and pessimism crept in, and doubts of America’s prowess became core beliefs for many.

But even at the high point of Viet Nam, the anti-war, anti-military worldview did not play well during Democratic Nominee George McGovern’s 1972 campaign against Republican President Richard Nixon. But unfortunate seeds were sewn back then, and they are producing some ugly fruit today.

Today, our country suffers the embarrassment of the likes of U.S. Senator Dick Durbin (D-Illinois) appearing uncertain as to how to respond when asked about the Move-On Dot Org advertisement. Either politically unwilling or personally unable to clearly condemn a smear campaign against an Army General, Durbin commented that the advertisement displayed a “poor choice of words,” but then made the matter all relative, stating that “even the best of us can occasionally get tangled up in a poor choice of words.”

Fortunately, a majority of Americans still do not embrace the left’s hostility toward our service men and women.

And whether or not they trust the President or the Congress at any given time, they still respect and trust the military top brass.

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About The Author
Austin Hill is a Talk Show Host At Boise, Idaho's 580 KIDO Radio, and a frequent Guest Host on the Fox Newstalk Radio Network. He is the Author of "White House Confidential: The Little Book Of Weird Presidential History," And Co-Author of the forthcoming title "The Virtues Of Capitalism: A Moral Case For Free Markets" (Northfield/Moody Press, 2010).
 
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ink og neato not neato
> According to Fred Kaplan - writer of "War Stories" for Slate -
> the Army has a hard time getting 7,000 NEW recruits a year.

On the other hand, in July of this year the NYT said (here):
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/10/washington/10military.html?ex=1341720000&en=9c451401c493106d&ei=5088&partner=rssny

this: "Colonel Baggio pointed out that the Army was still on track to meet its yearly target of 80,000 new recruits because recruiting exceeded goals for several months earlier this year."

Gee. Fred Kaplan of holy Slate says something, but obvious warmonger Colonel Baggio says something else. How to determine who is right? Well, lets look at an article from the lib rag Boston Globe (where they are complaining about the "moral wavers" given to some number of new recruits) here:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/13/america/13recruits.php

And what do we see? Gee a reference to 69,000 new recruits since Since Oct. 1, 2006 -- and the BG article was mid July. So, golly, it DOES look like the army is on track to bring in 80,000 new recruits. Look like Fred Kaplan is just plain pig ignorant -- or a liar. And it looks like ink og neato didn't bother to cross check facts before posting drivel.

Banned for life?
Non cogito *may* have been banned but, regardless, insists on posting here anyway; the frequent name change is part of the cheatin' MO, as with the Knigget of Bwahahaha! Hey--you don't suppose in co herent & the dappy English knigget are the same doofus?

No more distractions....
The MoveOn ad was a poor idea, and I told them so. Do they care what I think? I don't know.
Probably not.

Is Gen. Petraeus a traitor? Of course not. Is he a mouthpiece for his boss, the C-In-C? Apparently not--knowing better, he refused to give a politically motivated answer to the question "Are we safer?"

However, what would be the correct designation for those who ordered the finest fighting machine on earth, the U.S. Army, into a misconceived, badly planned, poorly executed, and ultimately delusional mission which has left it demoralized, undermanned, underequipped, and trapped for the forseeable future? And just by the way also drastically reducing the ability of this country to defend itself elsewhere should the need arise? Wouldn't "traitors" be an appropriate designation for the arrogant, mendacious neocons who thought this one up?

The best forecasts I've seen suggest that U.S. forces will have to stay in Iraq, at some level, for the next 3 to 5 years, at least. My modest proposal would be that those who brought about this fine state of affairs, Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld, should be required to serve with those forces in Iraq until the mess they made has been cleaned up to a tolerable degree. Who better to see the job through? In order to get back to their juicy pensions, corporate board seats, and lucrative speaker fees they would finally have to listen to those whose advice and cautions they ignored when they got us into the mess that good soldiers, like Gen. Petraeus, are now forced to deal with.

My only Thing is
everyone keeps yelling no WMD's Thing is we knew he had em before the gulf war 1 and he used them on his own people shortly afterwards. All the dead mothers in the street clutching their dead babies was proof enough for me. An as for Iran, anyone who thinks the a holes in charge there do not wish us dead, you get to stand on the front lines and wave the NYT at em!

Durban for President
When Barrack,Rodham and Edwards appeared on "The Charlie Rose Show" he asked them each the same basic question about the ad. NONE of them would answer! The hard charging Charlie followed up with a question about the weather or some such nonsense.

So by this measure, Dick Durban's comment that the ad was a “poor choice of words,” makes Dick downright reactionary! Soon Sen. Durban will be advocating smaller tax hikes!

Run Dick Run.


Warren Small writes:
b) his stats are secret, as 'Lon' pointed out, and don't jibe with what grunts on the ground report-- see the "War As We Saw It" op-ed in the NYT of August 19 which Townhall's war-whoopers have kept uniformly silent about (two of the sergeants who penned it, Mora and Gray, are already dead

Are you serious? NYT? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You can fill volumes with 1-what you don't read in it 2- all the lying crap they do put in it!

ink og neato writes:
Blind Patriotism Equals Cowardice

LoL we are war mongers but on the other hand they call us cowards. Just goes to show they never know what face they are talking out of! AHAHAHAHA

News????
We will not have to worry about bad news or good news for the next week or two. OJ gets arrested again. It will be all OJ all day all the time. Iraq will be bounced out of the news unless the Dems can out OJ OJ. After all, nothing is more important than the latest on OJ.

Maybe Reid can hold a seance at Anna Nicole Smith’s grave and she will come back to tell him that Bush lied and zombies cried and it will all be caught live by Geraldo.

Charlie
My reference to Russia was intended only to convey an example of a revolt against a backward and unsuccessful form of govt. You are correct that no G. Washington arose to estblish something better. But one hardly ever does. We were lucky as heII, though pitifully few seem to realize it.

Suspension of belief?
Hillary ought to know. One must suspend belief in the truth about 2000% to listen to everything that she promises. To me, Hillary is the queen of suspension of belief. Now, if only we could enact a suspension of how long she gets to hang around here aggitating things!

Contrary to all the leftist
lies the military is actually at a manning level ABOVE that permanently authorized by congress. Recruitment is NOT a problem. The problem is that we need to increase the authorized numbers of personnel OR change the ratio of shooters/support personnel. In other words, get more people at the pointy end of the stick and fewer behind desks in the Pentagon.

Turn the tables
Since Move.On.org is so fond of defamation, I suggest we turn the tables. Let's call the group by its proper appelation:
Moooooo-On. Liberal Democrats, like the cattle they are, lift up their heads and bleat every time their master, Moooooo-On, calls to them.
Moooooo-On Hillary, Moooooo-On Kerry, Moooooo-On Edwards, Moooooo-On Pelosi. Our liberal lawmakers are truly Mooooooers and shakers.

ink og neato: Weren't you banned,

for LIFE????


Blind Patriotism Equals Cowardice
I want to know is where are all the badassez who were frothing at the mouth to start this war?

According to Fred Kaplan - writer of "War Stories" for Slate - the Army has a hard time getting 7,000 NEW recruits a year.

That's NEW recruits, not reenlistments:

Guilianni says that we need ten more combat brigades:

"Ten combat brigades translate to 40,000 to 50,000 soldiers. The Army has a hard time recruiting 7,000 new combat soldiers a year. Does Giuliani have any ideas on how to get more?"

Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2172285/

Cowards. The people of America had enough information - that it would take several hundred thousand troops to occupy a country the size of Iraq, according to a four-star general - not to start this war but they all knew they would not have to fight it. America is a fraud.

They have sat there and let this thing drag out for five years, they get on the Internet and talk real big. Everything that could go wrong, went wrong, and still they just talk, talk, talk. What big men.

Lon
Your silly spew indicates you agree with moveon.

Would it surprise you to know you have the save respect and credibility around here?

suspension of disbelief
Let's see, Petraeus painted a picture based on data which is being kept secret using methodology that is being kept secret, that conflicts with the picture that comes out of the reports based on publicly available records using publicly available methodology. And the claim here seems to be that it requires hating America to consider this new data to require the suspension of disbelief.

It's true that it is unlikely that Bush would set up a military man to give a speech which was slanted to the point that all of its claims turned out to be false. Except of course that he did that with the Powell report to the UN. But I susppose it is unlikely it would happen twice.

But at least Patraeus has no history of giving overly rosy predictions of progress in the region. That is unless one counts his claims of progress right before the 2004 election which his current claims make clear were nonsense.

Lies
They have repeated the lie that there were no weapons of mass destruction that it has become a truth for many. The fact is that there were those weapons, and the only issue is what happened to them. http://www.poorgrandchildren.com

We had a NAZI 5th Column in WW2
They had the same objectives as our Democrat Party but the NAZIS were more ethical.

Durbin
Dick Durbin is a disgrace. His quotation "even the best of us can occasionally get tangled up in a poor choice of words.” sums up his 'moral high ground' attitude.

If MoveOn.org is an example of the 'best of us' or if he believes he himself is one of the 'best of us' then we are truly a country no longer united.

I propose we just change the name of our country to States of America...we may as well drop the semblance of being united when we uphold the disparagement of our troops in order to further a political power agenda.

for Upland William
Upland William writes: "I vaguely remember, from my psychology class back in the dark ages, the concept of projection....Perhaps this explains so much of the vitriol spewed by the extreme left wingers."

No.
We don't need to psychoanalyze them to figure out some deep underlying motive. They have stated their views quite openly in various Marxist and socialist publications--if you look for them.

They hate America's guts, and will never have anything good to say about America, because America destroyed their World Socialist wet dream and brought about today's mostly capitalist world financial system.

After World War II, with fascism defeated, the intellectual Left assumed that the steady march toward "democratic socialism" would resume till all the Western nations looked like Sweden or maybe like a more open version of the USSR. Sartre, Bertrand Russell, Lillian Hellman, all of them, that was their hope.

Then in the late 1940s, the U.S. started actively opposing Soviet Communism, the Cold War began, and then the Korean War. And the intellectual Left got turned off to the U.S. But they still had the idealistic hope that American capitalism would lose and socialism would win.

Then the U.S. won the Cold War, Soviet Communism collapsed and even India and Red China and Africa started introducing market reforms. And the Left was furious--to them, the wrong cause had triumphed. They became embittered and started drifting toward the "Death to America" mindset.

The Left could excuse the collapse of the USSR as due to American military pressure. But they were completely flummoxed as to why all the peoples of the Eastern European countries, from the Baltics to Albania, freely chose to kick out the Marxists from power. They've taken that as a personal repudiation and a humiliation of their own cherished ideals. And they're outraged.


Brujo Blanco writes:
Your right there! If they have no problem killing unborn children, they sure wont have problems with all the people who died when sadam gassed them or with the lunatics killing every jew or christan in the middle east. I wonder how they will handle women and children being killed in the street here?

what Noam Chomsky thinks of WW2
If you think the Left is only angry about Vietnam, or only angry when the U.S. confronts Communism, think again.

Here's what Noam Chomsky had to say back in 1967 about America's participation in World War II. My own comments are embedded in brackets [[]]:

"Looking back, though, we can see that the Japanese had very real grievances [[yep, those Chinese scum refused to surrender]], and that the United States had quite a significant share of responsibility in those grievances back in 1941....
"On November 6, 1941, just a month before Pearl Harbor, Japan had offered to eliminate the main major factor that really led to the Pacific war, namely the Closed Door Policy in China. But....only if the same principle were applied throughout the world....Of course, this was considered too absurd to even elicit a response. [[Of course it was, it was clearly playing for time by changing the subject away from their aggression in China]]
"Now what were the consequences of striking back and what was our own role in creating the situation in which the violence took place? On December 8, we struck back quite blindly, quite unthinkingly, and I'm not at all sure in retrospect that the world is any the better for it."
[[Yep, we should have recognized the 'legitimate grievances' of those little Jap darlings and let them have the Pacific. China, Indochina, Korea, the Philippines aren't any better as free nations than they would have been as enslaved parts of the Japanese Co-Prosperity Sphere.]]

http://www.chomsky.info/debates/19671215.htm

If that's what the Left thinks of WORLD WAR II, it's no wonder they don't think much of Iraq either.



Demoncrats and truth....
have become complete opposites. It is apparent to me that they want to destroy this country from every angle including support for illegal immigration, go along to get along with terrorists, national health care, Hillary wants to do away with private ownership, control of children, homo promo, and elimination of the 1st and 2nd Amendment as we have known them.

Projection?
I vaguely remember, from my psychology class back in the dark ages, the concept of projection. This is the idea that an individual (or group) attributes to others their own basic mindset and/or moral attitudes.

Perhaps this explains so much of the vitriol spewed by the extreme left wingers. To win an arguement (or election) they will say and do anything, no matter how vile or dishonest. Since that is their modus operandi, they subconsciously presume their opponents are operating from the same rule book.

Perhaps we can all chip in and buy them psychological therapy. Of course, we would then be guilty of cruel and unusual punishment to the therapists.

for Packrat
Packrat writes: "Do you remember the outcry when the military under Daddy Bush hammered the Iraqi forces as they pulled their equipment out of Kuwait?"

Yes I do.

The Left only knows two scripts with which to frame any U.S. war:

If the U.S. wins a quick, decisive victory with relatively low casualties, the Left claims that the U.S. "brutalized a helpless country into dishonorable surrender."

If the war takes longer and/or involves higher casualties, the Left claims that the U.S. "is in an unwinnable quagmire."

In fact, I've heard different Leftists make both claims simultaneously about the same war.

That's because too many of them think the U.S. is wrong to begin with. When the MSM asked Daniel Ellsberg if the U.S. had backed the wrong side in Indochina, he replied, "America was the wrong side."

And in a Boston Globe survey of the delegates to the 2004 Democratic National Convention, a plurality of delegates responded that the root cause of the 9-11 terrorist attack was "past U.S. wrongdoing." Only a very tiny percentage said it was due to "Islamic extremism."

savage99
"It took 70 years for the Russians to figure out they'd been had"
Look at the child that was "indocrinated" under the Bolseviks, Putin, and what is now going on in Russia (return of collective propaganda media, and destruction of opponents lives, in some cases literally their very lives) and tell me the Russians figured it out.

Vic
that works for me, wish they would have!

steward writes:REtturning to Roots
the trouble with that is, they started it:P

Doc
I don't blame George I as much as I do others because he had little time for planning and getting allies together. What we wound up with was what we had. Of course, we could have signed on Britain and no others and went in more or less unilaterally and took out both Saddam and Iran then.

On Patriotism
In all honesty I do not question the patriotism of the Democrats. I believe in their hearts they think what they are doing is the right thing for the country even if they know certain acts may have a bad affect. They see themselves being in power to bring about a more equitable society as an end that is worth just about any action and to gain that end if some are hurt that is an acceptable price.

From their point of view it is no different than the bad things that happen in combat. People die to gain the objective. I see their objective as a socialist society, for them a Shangri-La. Lenin didn't hate Russia either, but that didn't stop him from murdering millions of Russians and ruining the country.

Motivation
Hillary's comments to the General could be a good thing for us all if the General is motivated to prove her wrong!

REtturning to Roots
We can whine about Hillary. We can whine about the media, and the dems. And we will continue to lose elections. What will win? Honesty towards out mitakes (and their consequences), a focus on our own positive values (rather than more crapping about others' faults) and intelligent ideas on how to move forward in troubling times. I wish TH would return to being an forum for ideas rather whining how others don't get it, or are more arrogant than we are, or are less patriotic. None of that changes the moderates' hearts and minds. I am young, and I see so many of my peers tuning out of the conservative ideolgy because it has become so focused on attacking those who disagree. We may say it is those Democrats, or that media, that is doing the attacking. So what? Can't we hold ourselves to a higher standard? Maybe then we won't be so miserable after November 2008.

Vic
I am not disagreeing with you, but if they had NOT said this is ALL we are going to do, things could have been different! Imagine that we had just drove Germany or Japan back inside their borders and then quit! Our forefathers had the insight to leave control of the military in civilian control, but they never intended for the likes of hillary to be telling our generals they are a bunch of warmongers, liars and even spitting on our troops, and always trying to make the military fight every war with one hand tied to their pvt. parts. We won BIG during the tet offensive until people like her and the media and the likes of walter crokofit told us the war was lost! So I blame george 1 as much as I do any of the rest.

Len: I think the real question is....

When haven't we questioned their patriotism?

When was the last time you didn't at least think, "Geez, who's side are they on anyway?"




Democrats
Exactly when can we start questioning their patriotism?

better yet
who will protect her when we start having attacks day after day? i think they will think, HEY they gave in here let's go there, they will cave in again!

Doc/Packrat
The reason we stopped in Gulf I was that they felt that elimination of Saddam would create a power vacuum which Iran would take in.

In other words, the same mess we have now. At the time there was no chance that the other allies (other than Britain) would go along with it. Remember that at the time we had France, Russia, and Saudi Arabia as allies.

When we went in this time we should have planned on going through Iran and Syria at the same time and forgot about the stupid nation building. We should have also forgot to worry over collateral damage and European sensibilities, as France, Russia, and Germany had already been bought off by Saddam with Oil For Food money.

What will Shillery do?
If, God forbid, she is elected, will she fire all of the "lying generals" & put her own truth tellers in place? Who will she turn to after she has insulted the military, the people who protect her?

Charlie
You paint a terrible picture. The worst is that the trend to power may continue. There is long-term hope. It took 70 years for the Russians to figure out they'd been had, but they had only the Tsar to start from. Look at Cuba. How long do you think the American public would support going back to the stone age like Castro did to Cuba? Probably 6 or 8 years of mis-managed govt, leading to drastically falling standards of living would lead to voter education and revolt. If totalitarian methods of control were used in attempts to stifle dissent, it would shorten the reaction time. I'm an old duck now, but i'm really curious to see what is going to happen. There is cause for great faith in the American people, and cause for great concern. C'mon good guys! Lets see you win.

Doc

My point was the one-sided outcry about how terrible it was to attack the Iraqis and Bush listened and quit the advance ( only to leave the job of getting rid SH to his son.

My point was the "how can you kill those people" outcry, when the answer was it was a war.

Why should anyone be surprised
st the NY Times or moveon.org or even the Demorats for that matter.
Just accept the fact that they are just what they are and will not change.
Hopefully they will continue to spew their garbage and clear thinking people will see them for what they are and VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE!!

Post-WW2 US Communists
The "McCarthy" communists existed in the USA; history has proven this with their "outings" through time.
The US communists however took open flight and enabled cover in the US Democratic Party. At first they were small in numbers and weak in influence, but they capitalized where they could. They spread their ideological disease to the mainstream party since the 1950s and became, they and their spawn, the "movers and shakers" of Democratic Party politics...eventually displacing most all "conservative Democrats", of whom there once were many.
The Liberals who now desire to be known as "progressives" are in truth Communists. They have infiltrated the areas of the national society their teacher Lenin instructed them to; they now own the US public educational system (using it for indocrination to their agendas and ideas); they own the mass media system; they aer well entrenched in every government agencies at the Federal level as "career" employees (their work can go on regardless of whom the people might yet be voting into office). It is not, as they would have you believe, a joke or a cruelly insane theory; it is fact.
One nee look no further than Lenin, their teacher:
"Give us the child for 8 years, and it will be a Bolshevik forever."
"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
"The goal of Socialism IS Communism."
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism"
"The press should be not only a collective propagandist and agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses."
Lenin also talked about the "right opportunity" being necessary to gain control; the US Communists have embraced Iraq as that opportunity; for Lenin it was WW1.

Though I agree that
the 1st Amendment defends the speech of MoveOn and Code Pink, as it should. This type of smear against an honorable soldier who has sat in foxholes in Vietnam and Korea protecting YOUR families while enduring freezing cold and incessant sniping by the enemy so you could sleep safe in your bed at night makes me puke. Though I was a Marine, I never saw combat. But Gunny did. And made us all quite aware of would happen. I was spared by our Lord of the horror of it. But our men are there now and deserve everything we can provide whether you agree with Bush or not. They protect the right of Pink and Move on to hate them. Ironic, is"nt it?

Packrat writes
vic
you may hit on something
Do you remember the outcry when the military under Daddy Bush hammered the Iraqi forces as they pulled their equipment out of Kuwait?


yea to bad daddy bush was to worried about how we looked then, we could have helped the people of Iraq then and got started on the war on terror that much sooner!

Kuncinich shunned US troops....
when he was in Syria!!!!

"Kucinich visits Syria, shuns U.S. troops
Praises Assad, blasts Bush: 'I don't want to bless that occupation with my presence.'"

Bless the occupation with his presence??? What a despicable little twit!

And didn't the dumbocrats' own "reprehensible Nancy Pelosi" waste no time before she fraternized with Assad?

The best thing this country could do is try each and every dumbocrat who has "visited" Assad, etc., with TREASON!


Response to Davetx
The democrats are pandering to the left and want immediate results. Immediate results will not come, however, if we pull out of southwest asia immediate results on the spread of terrorism will be prevail. The reason for this is that the Islamic radicals will think we do not have the stomach to fight and they will not be satisfied with keeping their violence within their borders


I pretty much agree. The problem is Irainian Radicals have been linked to the Cleric Sadir in Iraq - Pull the troops out and it will be the same blood bath Iran had when Jimmy Carter pulled out support for the Shaw -

I don't believe the Dems are pandering to Lib left - THEY ARE the lib left Globalists activly engaging in dismanteling America, including the public humiliation of the VERY General they voted to send there.

Traitors - One and ALL.

By the way
How is Mrs. De-Chamberlein? Lots on MSM coverage about the snivler in Tijuana but nothing about that nice lady. How long has it been since you ran that story?

Trying to get that
"undecided vote" that supposedly is in the center is what has doomed the Republican Party. If you move left to get it and lose the base the only thing you have got is the shaft.

Vic,Packrat,Uncle Max
All fine posts, nothing to add except my agreement.

my 2 cents
The ad calls General Petraeus a traitor. A traitor is one who betrays. Therefore General Petraeus is a traitor.

Now is the time to ask each dem candidate whether or not he or she agrees with the ad. One word answers only - yes or no. And KEEP ASKING UNTIL THE QUESTION IS ANSWERED. Context be darned. (?)

I never thought I would be agreeing with Senator Kerry but I must say that I respect his calling the ad 'over the top'. Not exactly my choice of words, but it will suffice.

Let's remember this when the nominations are decided and the campaign starts next year.

Simple facts - A major newspaper gives BARGAIN RATES to an organization to run an ad in which that organization calls a 4 star general a traitor.

A fair campaign tactic next year would be to show the ad and then to make note of the number of times the dem nominee REFUSED to condemn it or even to state whhether he or she disagreed with it. A one word answer - yes or no?

The dems on the fringe are obviously losing it and they have clothed themselves in moral superiority for so long that they imagine that the rest of us are the same way. Let's keep our cool and remember that ELECTIONS ARE WON IN THE MIDDLE. Which for purposes of this discussion means that the folks whose votes will decide this thing haven't even started thinking of who they'll vote for and probably won't unat least for another year. When they ask us why they should vote for OUR candidate we have to be cool and tell them why.

Let's stay cool.

The ad is contemptible - we all know that.

vic
you may hit on something

Do you remember the outcry when the military under Daddy Bush hammered the Iraqi forces as they pulled their equipment out of Kuwait?


No new news
Demoncraps...that word has become synonymous with lying traitorous scum. They voted FOR the war in Iraq and then immediately thereafter started hammering it. They and their band of weasel brothers in the MSM have done nothing but hammer the war and the WOT since the beginning. They are all like lying weasel John "shrapnel butt Kerry"; they voted for it before they mouthed against it.

If we had killed every insurgent in Iraq, established a functioning representative Democracy in Iraq, and increased oil production 200% over pre-war level the Democraps would hammer it saying we were "too cruel" in our methods and the MSM would have nothing to say about the actual conditions in Iraq, they would simply parrot the Dem position.

And all of that is simply on the war. About half of the Republicans agree with them on everything else. Do you hear anything out of the MSM for those things? Do the pundits, even on Fox bring up high spending and border issues as to why the Repubs are doing bad? Maybe 1 or 2 out of 20 on Fox and none on the others. They consistently all hammer the war as being the big killer for Repubs.

Undermining the country
I have been wondering for some time now if the war in Iraq would have been won long ago if the Dems had not encouraged Al Qaeda with their constant drumbeat of defeatism.

Democrat leader, Harry Reid, has declared that the war is "already lost" Most of his party want us to turn tail and run. How could that not make the enemy believe all it has to do is wait until we do just that?

Why am I not surprised?
After over three and one half years of incessant parroting of the same anti-war, anti-Bush bleatings by the Dems a couple of observations. First, their rhetoric has been repeated so many times without regard for or foundation in fact it's become reflexive. In fact, they should use a version of the old numerical substitution list in which vulgar words and phrases would be replaced by numbers( instead of saying "f*ck you" to a co-worker you would say "814" etc.)only their entire list would substitute the number "zero" for anything they say. Second, the Dem's lust for power is so strong it leads them to make outrageous allegations like the moveon.org ad. Any objective analysis would conclude that they had lost the capacity to feel shame, a certain indicator of a lack of a conscience. Finally, if thse people are the "enlightened illuminati" they proclaim themselves to be, can't they think of anything original to say?

It's truely sad....
Senator Clinton's opening remarks on the character of Gen Petraeus is disgraceful. The general is not a politician. He is a servant for the will of the American people and a last resort when the diplomats cannot solve the problems through dialogue. If Sen. Clinton had any verifiable facts contrary to the general's then she should had presented those facts. But apparently she had no facts but yet questioned the individual that eats and sleeps within the confines of a combat zone. The democrats went into the chambers with closed ears and rhetoric. The good news that General Petraues gave congress was the result of having the right people at the right place. Permanent results will be achieved but it takes time.
The democrats are pandering to the left and want immediate results. Immediate results will not come, however, if we pull out of southwest asia immediate results on the spread of terrorism will be prevail. The reason for this is that the Islamic radicals will think we do not have the stomach to fight and they will not be satisfied with keeping their violence within their borders.

Is there any question that dems are dems

first and foremost?

Clayburn made THAT very clear when he stated, "Good News for Iraq is bad news for Democrats..."

And they still have the hubris to feign outrage when they're accused of being "unpatriotic."

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