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Sunday, June 03, 2007
Austin Hill :: Townhall.com Columnist
John, Hillary, Barack - - Meet Our Friend Adam
by Austin Hill
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Hillary Rodham Clinton has been doing that thing she does so well - - maligning rich people.

During a major campaign address delivered in Manchester New Hampshire, Mrs. Clinton explained her intent to eliminate the so-called “tax cuts for the wealthy,” and introduced new ways for government to spend American’s money.

“Let’s be clear” Mrs. Clinton remarked as she argued for raising taxes, “it’s not as if America hasn’t been successful in the past six years…”

But then without even contemplating the possibility that maybe - - just maybe - - cutting the taxes of all Americans has played a role in America’s recent “success,” Mrs. Clinton went on to decry the idea of America being an “ownership society”(a fitting label given the all-time high level of private home ownership among people of all ethnic groups) calling it instead an “on your own society,” and expressing her preference for a “we’re in this together” society.

And what does this mean? For Clinton, a “were in this together” society is a society of “shared responsibility” - - AND “shared prosperity.”

Clinton made it clear that her vision for America’s future is a collectivist vision - - one that focuses primarily on goals for the group (the broader society), while things like personal responsibility, the wellbeing of individual persons, and individual achievement become secondary, if not tertiary concerns.

Senator Barack Obama has also been doing his best to pile-on, drawing a direct connection between the two enterprises of punishing the wealthy, and giving away healthcare services. His proposal is simple enough - - raise taxes on “the wealthiest Americans,” and use that revenue to provide “free” healthcare to others.

Similarly, John Edwards has continued with his themes of poverty and low-wage work, promising to raise taxes on Americans earning $200,000 a year or more.

Now, the hypocrisy of Edwards and Clinton is staggering.

For example, much of Clinton’s spiteful rhetoric about some people having “too much wealth” seems at odds with her lifestyle of expensive, fuel-guzzling private jets - - dispatching one here, sending another to pick her up there, swapping private planes mid-trip because the interior design of one isn’t aesthetically pleasing to her - - most all of which are provided to her by wealthy personal friends or purchased with campaign donations.

Edwards, on the other hand, has become know for lecturing on college campuses about the immorality of poverty and tuition hikes, while charging schools and students up to $55,000 per speech - - this from a man who enjoys a lifestyle of four hundred-dollar haircuts and a thirty-thousand square foot private home.

The “do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do” approach of Clinton and Edwards, wherein they criticize the existence of an American wealthy class while at the same time surrounding themselves with wealth‘s comforts, is a travesty.

But most problematic about Clinton, Edwards, and Obama, is their apparent disregard for the ways in which wealth is created, and their hostility for those who engage in that enterprise.

Their proposals seem to bare no resemblance to very basic economic principles, and the thoughts of, oh, say, Adam Smith.

Often regarded as an economist and the “father of capitalism,” Smith was a moral philosopher from the Seventeen-hundreds who surmised that governments become oppressive when they control a nation’s wealth, and that governments are far less effective in managing wealth than are individual persons.

And how about recent history as our teacher? In Hillary’s lifetime alone the world has seen the painful, brutal collapse of multiple “we’re in this together” societies, including East Germany and the entire Soviet Union, and the slow, excruciating implosions of oppressive North Korea and Cuba.

No serious recent contender for the American presidency has proposed an American government devoid of any social safety net, nor has any candidate suggested that some Americans should necessarily do without adequate food, housing and healthcare.

Yet the Democratic front-runners can’t think beyond the centuries-old idea of economic re-distribution - - a process of government taking things away from those who seem to “have,” and giving things away to those who seem to “have not” - - an idea that has itself produced devastating consequences.

Their repeated promises to punish rich folks (and, yes, taking away an individual’s money is “punishment”) might make for strategic politicking during a Democratic primary season, but it is most certainly NOT good for the country and its future. When government focuses primarily on “the good of all” rather than on safe-guarding the liberties of the individual, we all become cogs in the big government wheel - - and in that scenario, everyone suffers, especially the poorest among us.

Ultimately, Clinton, Obama and Edwards fail to acknowledge that their utopian visions are wholesale reliant on the hard work, creativity, risk-taking, and wealth creation of America’s entrepreneurs.

Oh, and, by the way…some of those people just happen to be wealthy.

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About The Author
Austin Hill is a Talk Show Host At Boise, Idaho's 580 KIDO Radio, and a frequent Guest Host on the Fox Newstalk Radio Network. He is the Author of "White House Confidential: The Little Book Of Weird Presidential History," And Co-Author of the forthcoming title "The Virtues Of Capitalism: A Moral Case For Free Markets" (Northfield/Moody Press, 2010).
 
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Wayne S
You are funny when you want to be and honorable in your actions. I hope that I would respond in the same manner to an injury.

YouSoMakeMeLaugh
YouSoMakeMeSick. And if your ideas prevail, the whole country will be sick.
Sounds like you have issues with rich people manipulating the tax code--then work with those who want a Fair Tax or Flat Tax. Get rid of the hidden perks in thousands of pages of code that only the wealthy can pay accountants and lawyers to find.

The USA is not bankrupt and won't become so unless politicians fail to lead on broken entitlement programs which were set up to promote a "we're all in this together" society.

As for moral sentiment-- read the studies about who gives time and money to others! In America giving by conservatives far exceeds that of liberals (regardless of the economic status of those being charitable.) Hey, big talker, I would not be afraid to challenge you personally. What % of your income have you given in the last year? How many hours of service?

Liberty Dave
Well said.

Responses
YouSoMakeMeLaugh writes: "Most on the right seem to have long since lost moral sentiment and sympathy when there is a penny to be put in their pockets." The left has by no means lost its moral sentiment or sympathy, at least when that sympathy is defined as spending other people's money. When it comes to spending their own money, they prefer to keep the pennies in their own pockets.

PopYoColla writes: "Edwards is talking about raising taxes on himself and people like him who can afford it and he's a hypocrite?" He is, of course, ignorant of the fact that Democrat income redistribution schemes tax income, not assets. Wealthy Democrats employ legions of lawyers and accountants to protect their own assets--this is how billionaire (by marriage) Kerry paid less in taxes than GWB. As always, their proposals are meant for the "little people", not for themselves.

Regarding all the hyperbola about deficits, their is hardly a more meaningless economic statistic than the current account deficit. And when measured as a percent of GDP, today's deficit is low by historical standards, and shrinking quickly (unless the socialists take office and derail the economy with massive tax increases)

VA "health care"
I'm a 100% disabled veteran with quite a few years experience of doing war with the VA. All I can say is that the "health care" I've gotten from the VA is pitiful. The VA's credo is: "Nothing is too good for veterans, so that's what we'll make sure they get: NOTHING!"

What I need, I don't get. What I get, I don't need.

Many of the health problems from which I currently suffer were either caused by the VA or aggravated by "health care" I received from the VA.

The only way to correct the problems with the VA is to dismantle it, and send veterans to private health-care providers. As it is, I have to make a 7-hour drive for the dismal care I receive.

I suppose all this is another way of saying that VA "health care" is, in my opinion, a disservice to veterans everywhere.

Cam
"For the record, Medicare has a 2% overhead rate, much lower than the closest private rate of 12%. VA hospitals also offer the most advanced record keeping. So much for government screwing up health care. There are dozens of countries where governments offer universal health care. Can you point to a single country on this planet where private health care covers everyone?"

First off what do you mean by overhead rate of Medicare? Are you talking about the estimated $12.1 billion of Medicare waste found in 2001 by the department of health and human services? Only God knows what waste goes on now, as it's mostly all hidden.

And you think that because some hospitals in VA have good recordkeeping (what qualifies as "good recordkeeping" anyways? what does that even mean?) that government hasn't screwed up health care?

You say there are dozens of countries that offer universal health care. Have you also noted that those countries have a lower standard of living that the United States? That those countries have higher unemployment? That people that need healthcare in those countries have to wait in long queues to get treatment, and die more often from the most common types of cancer and other illness than in the United States? That in the United States you can get an MRI, EKG, cancer treatment(s), operations, much, much quicker than in socialist countries?

And I'm not even going to bother with answering the last question in the paragraph I quoted, as it's just another "I have a right to be provided something" argument you liberals always use, and there's no winning it, because you want more socialism.

WayneS
I'm really sorry to hear about your ordeal, and I applaud you standing up for being so ethical and moral. Most people, as you mentioned, would most likely sue, and probably win. The world seems to be full of leeches ready to sue anyone that does something wrong to them. Of course if they're the ones that make a mistake they complain that it wasn't their fault for some reason.

One other thing I want to mention is this: For those of you, mostly Democrats, but anyone that ever thinks you have a "right" to something, such as medical care, food on the table, good schools, etc...all you're saying is that someone else should be forced to provide those things to you. That's the only way you can be provided something that you think you have a "right" to.

The only "right" you have in a free society is the right to pursue the necessary things in life, as well as the right to pursue luxuries in life and anything else you want.

In a free society no force is used against anyone else to provide you with anything.

The problem with most things that are "messed up" in terms of being overly expensive are things in which the government has taken part to a large degree.

Health care could be affordable to everyone, like it was about 40-50 years ago to even poor people, if the government got out of the damn way.

Good schools can be had by everyone...if the government would get out of the damn way.

Liberals need a reality check concerning how much "better" socialist countries are instead of smoking on the perpetual Michael Moore/Clintonesque pipe dream they're so fond of.

Meet Adam yourself
Hey gang, communism is easy to condemn but it does not equal progressive taxation.

For the record, Medicare has a 2% overhead rate, much lower than the closest private rate of 12%. VA hospitals also offer the most advanced record keeping. So much for government screwing up health care. There are dozens of countries where governments offer universal health care. Can you point to a single country on this planet where private health care covers everyone?

Your theories function only in your minds. If you hate government, taxation, and regulation, take your business to the only nation on earth that lacks them - Somalia. It's a conservative paradise.

If you want a pure meritocracy, give poorer schools the same resources enjoyed by wealthier schools. Get rid of college legacy admissions. Reform campaign financing so that government is driven by facts and ideas rather than $$.

If you favor the free market, let the government negotiate drug costs.

September12Republican
Thank you.

WayneS -- Good for You!

Thank you for sharing your story. Your reward in this world is your own personal honor (which, itself, is priceless).

I like to believe that there is also an even more precious award awaiting you in the next world, but that of course is not for us to know.

lilly
"I don't doubt that plenty on this board would be the first in line to sue somebody if they thought they'd been harmed."

You might have a point; but NOT about me, at any rate.

Here's a true story:

An Orthopedic surgeon mistakenly took just a bit too much bone from the tibia as he was "borrowing" for a bone graft while rebuilding my shattered foot (motorcycle roadracing accident). This resulted in the tibia "exploding" into several pieces when I finally put weight on it a few weeks later. he really only cut a millimeter or so too much inot my tibia and he was using "accepted" prcatices for obtaining graft material.

I didn't sue. I simply asked the doctor to "make it right". He owned up to his mistake and made it as "right" as he could (all at HIS expense). He installed a steel plate and a bunch of screws which I still carry with me. I was down for about 3-4 weeks all told. It was a painful ordeal.

Does my ankle still hurt sometimes? YES. Could I have brought a giant "pain and suffering" lawsuit against the surgeon? YES. Do I regret NOT suing? NO.

The man made a simple mistake, while trying to HELP me, which resulted in me suffering some physical pain. Humans do that some times. I just don't think it was that big a deal (I am at least strong enough not to suffer "emotional" distress from such an incident).

You'd be amazed, though, at the number of people (liberals more so than conservatives but DEFINITELY a good cross-section of both) who tell me I am a "fool" for not trying to enrichen myself at the expense of his "malpractice insurance". However, I try look at it from the BIG picture perspective. EVERYONE's medical costs go up when ANYONE files a malpractice claim. Lawsuits should only be filed for the most egregious errors and/or malfeasance on the part of the physician (or lawyer or manufacturer or engineer). We ALL end up paying for these lawsuits one way or the other.

I consider John Edwards to be an ambulance-chasing leach on the buttocks of society. I have ABSOLUTELY no respect whatsoever for him and his ilk.

YouSoMakeMeLaugh
Yeah, and once Hillary becomes our benevolent leader she'll fix all those greedy fat-cats. She'll MAKE them have sympathy for their fellow man. It will be ILLEGAL to be mean.

And then we'll all dance around the May pole and enjoy delicious desserts from the "government funded" ice cream tree.

Tra-la-la.

My problem with Democrats
Simply put...my problem with Democrats is that they consider anyone who has done half way decent to be "Rich". Al Gore did a great job of high lighting this when he proposed tax cuts only for "hard working" americans, and not the rich...He defined a rich house hold as any one where the combined income was more than $50k. Has he ever tried living in New Jersey on $50K a year...heck, that would not even pay his monthly electricity bill for his monster palace.
I do however find it interesting that all their Hollywood mega rich frineds are incorporated have high priced tax accountants, and pay a lot less tax (from a % basis) than the average US household that makes $80k a year.
This party wide desire by the dems to screw the abve average earner, is one of the reasons I left that party...OK, Jimmy Carter was the other...but that is another story.

Hockey Goon, stop with the facts
It is hurting the poor little liberal minds trying to twist the facts to support their idiotic thinking.

BigfootBob, great post! Unintended consequences, we have never learned the correct lesson. But the government has learned how to gather more power and influence for itself. It is a living monster and wants to be fed. We need to perform major surgery before it's too late. It may already be too late to prevent the only way to fix it, another revolution.

Wrong WRONG WRONG!!!!!
PopYoColla writes: Last time a Democrat was in office, the country held a nice fat budget surplus. Now, the deficts out of control. When you point a finger, remeber three are pointing back at you.

-------------------------------------------------

Look it up, every year the national debt went up, there was never a budget surplus under Clinton.


These obligations are so large and are growing so fast that budget surpluses of the late 1990s actually were deficits when the costs are included.

The Clinton administration reported a surplus of $559 billion in its final four budget years. The audited numbers showed a deficit of $484 billion.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-08-02-deficit-usat_x.htm



http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html



To be More Precise

Substitute the word "fiscal" for "social" in the last line of my preceding post. Thanks.

Liberty, You're Right

I'd forgotten about Gravel's line about the pilfering of social security. But I think that the reason it slipped my mind is that his statement didn't appear to make even the least bit of an impression on any of the other Democratic candidates. To use a cliche, "like water off a duck's back."

The two most important issues facing our nation as we approach the 2008 national election, in my view, will be our multi-front war against Islamofascism and our ability to deal with our national entitlements fiasco. Liberty, I know that you and I are not going to reach common ground on the war, but I'm right with you in regard to our nation's disasterous social policies.

September12Republican
I watched most of it too. The only good part was when Gravel rightly accused them of speaking with forked tongue about Social Security, in that Congress had been raiding the fund for YEARS and that is why it's broke.

Lynne
"What has the government spent in the wake of 9-11? What has the government spent in the wake of Katrina? The amount of money the government has spent in these and other domestic catastrophes has been enormous... and would have been regardless of what party, or who was in office..."

WRONG.

Think of the money we would have saved if we would have stayed focused on the whackos that attacked us, instead of taking a U-TURN into Iraq, which had nothing whatsoever to do with our national security.

------------------------

Don't Aggress Against Iraq

by Congressman Ron Paul, MD

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I was recently asked why I thought it was a bad idea for the President to initiate a war against Iraq. I responded by saying that I could easily give a half a dozen reasons why; and if I took a minute, I could give a full dozen. For starters, here is a half a dozen.

Number one, Congress has not given the President the legal authority to wage war against Iraq as directed by the Constitution, nor does he have U.N. authority to do so. Even if he did, it would not satisfy the rule of law laid down by the Framers of the Constitution.

Number two, Iraq has not initiated aggression against the United States. Invading Iraq and deposing Saddam Hussein, no matter how evil a dictator he may be, has nothing to do with our national security. Iraq does not have a single airplane in its air force and is a poverty-ridden third world nation, hardly a threat to U.S. security. Stirring up a major conflict in this region will actually jeopardize our security.

Number three, a war against Iraq initiated by the United States cannot be morally justified. The argument that someday in the future Saddam Hussein might pose a threat to us means that any nation, any place in the world is subject to an American invasion without cause. This would be comparable to the impossibility of proving a negative.

Number four, initiating a war against Iraq will surely antagonize all neighboring Arab and Muslim nations as well as the Russians, the Chinese, and the European Union, if not the whole world. Even the English people are reluctant to support Tony Blair's prodding of our President to invade Iraq. There is no practical benefit for such action. Iraq could end up in even more dangerous hands like Iran.

Number five, an attack on Iraq will not likely be confined to Iraq alone. Spreading the war to Israel and rallying all Arab nations against her may well end up jeopardizing the very existence of Israel. The President has already likened the current international crisis more to that of World War II than the more localized Vietnam war. The law of unintended consequences applies to international affairs every bit as much as to domestic interventions, yet the consequences of such are much more dangerous.

Number six, the cost of a war against Iraq would be prohibitive. We paid a heavy economic price for the Vietnam war in direct cost, debt and inflation. This coming war could be a lot more expensive. Our national debt is growing at a rate greater than $250 billion per year. This will certainly accelerate. The dollar cost will be the least of our concerns compared to the potential loss of innocent lives, both theirs and ours. The systematic attack on civil liberties that accompanies all wars cannot be ignored. Already we hear cries for resurrecting the authoritarian program of conscription in the name of patriotism, of course.

Could any benefit come from all this warmongering? Possibly. Let us hope and pray so. It should be evident that big government is anathema to individual liberty. In a free society, the role of government is to protect the individual's right to life and liberty. The biggest government of all, the U.N. consistently threatens personal liberties and U.S. sovereignty. But our recent move toward unilateralism hopefully will inadvertently weaken the United Nations. Our participation more often than not lately is conditioned on following the international rules and courts and trade agreements only when they please us, flaunting the consensus, without rejecting internationalism on principle- as we should.

The way these international events will eventually play out is unknown, and in the process we expose ourselves to great danger. Instead of replacing today's international government, (the United Nations, the IMF, the World Bank, the WTO, the international criminal court) with free and independent republics, it is more likely that we will see a rise of militant nationalism with a penchant for solving problems with arms and protectionism rather than free trade and peaceful negotiations.

The last thing this world needs is the development of more nuclear weapons, as is now being planned in a pretense for ensuring the peace. We would need more than an office of strategic information to convince the world of that.

What do we need? We need a clear understanding and belief in a free society, a true republic that protects individual liberty, private property, free markets, voluntary exchange and private solutions to social problems, placing strict restraints on government meddling in the internal affairs of others.

Indeed, we live in challenging and dangerous times. -- Congressman Ron Paul, March 22, 2002

And Furthermore...
Remember the crazy Physics professor who always started his lectures, "And furthermore..." Fun stuff.

WWII saw the start of the monstrosity of withholding taxes from paychecks. Prior to then, your federal income tax was due on March 15, and you paid it then for the whole year.

To finance the war, Pres. Roosevelt called in Macy's controller, a fellow with the marvellous name of Beardsley Rumsfelt. (Or something like that, somebody help me here.)

Beardsley cooked up the idea of withholding taxes, which, I believe, were supposed to end when the war ended, and we all know what happened there. The pols saw how easy it was to siphon off money from their subjects that they could not never no way let go of that big ole suction pump.

Result: When I was kid in the '30s I believe the feds taxed away about 4-5% of GDP. Now I think it's about 24%, and growing.

Enjoy, everyone.

Gummint Messing up Health Care
Some fine posters above point to government interference in the health care business as the cause of its problems. Quite true.

Why did it happen? Because of the unintended consequences of earlier government controls on the economy.

During WWII, the federal government imposed wage and price controls on the economy. Businesses that wanted to hire new people, especially those who were manufacturing war materials, were not allowed to offer higher wages to induce the new people to come aboard.

So, they scratched their heads and came up with a plan. "Let's offer them something extra, like health care. Our accountants can show that as a general business expense, and not a payroll expense." Brilliant solution. And it worked.

Unintended consequence...the bureaucrats, seeing this growing trend jumped in and started regulating the practice, for the common good, of course.

That's what we are living with today.

Total control of health care by the bureaucrats is the worst possible solution.


Debate
What does NASCAR and the Democrat debate have in common? NASCAR has 43 rednecks making left for 4 hours, the Democrat debates has 8 liberals making left turns for 1 hour.

Lilly

I'm back -- after watching the Democratic presidential candidates all re-affirm their socialist leanings during this evening's debate on CNN. I fear that our great nation is going to be in some kind of trouble if ANY of these clowns are able to get themselves elected.

My point is not that John Edwards committed some kind of "crime" (your word) by convincing juries to award millions of dollars from doctors and insurance carriers. My point was that this hypocrite, although lovely to look at, has some nerve telling Americans that it is appropriate for them to envy their neighbor simply for being a financial success.

I don't dislike John Edwards for his success as a trial lawyer. I dislike him because, of all the Democratic presidential candidates (of whom, only he has held a real -- i.e., non-political -- job), he ought to know better than to campaign on a platform of urging Americans to forcibly grab the wealth created by others.


Scott
I fully agree with you, leftists really do think the wealth of America is a pie, the rich get this much, the middle class get this much and the poor get the crumbs. The analogy I like to use is this: The wealth of America is as vast as outer space, all an individual needs to do to harvest this vast wealth is discover a way to get to space. You may fall but by falling you learn what you did wrong and try again.

Dark Wizard
You know it! That was a big worry of mine.

I had a great relationship with him, but he treated other employees like crap and despite my pleas to get him to respect others that work for me, he couldn't help but criticize and castigate them for minor slights. So we finally had to ask him to look for something else because he wasn't going to be able to advance with my company.

Let me sum it up
Someone once said, "Capitalism is an unequal distribution of wealth. Socialism is an equal distribution of poverty."

I have, until recently, worked for someone else for over 20 years. I didn't think I was "being taken advantage of" as the Marxists like to whine. They were mutually beneficial exhanges of my labor for the employer's money.

I may have contributed to their getting rich. So what? I had a job, had a 401(k), had health insurance in most of those jobs. In the ones I didn't, I developed skills I could leverage for my future, which I did to open my own business.

Wealth is not a big pie that just gets divided, and divided “unequally”, by the "rich". Wealth is created by entrepreneurial activities, whereby intelligent, driven, knowledgeable people organize resources, both human and material, to create something valuable to someone else.

It’s a simple concept that liberals can’t quite grasp. They have to assume that someone helpless is always being taken advantage of and only they can help. Their “help” usually ends up creating larger problems.

Scott
Of course if you fired him you would have been sued.

Lilly
"I don't doubt that plenty on this board would be the first in line to sue somebody if they thought they'd been harmed. Get serious."

If I spill hot coffee in my lap I blame myself. Not the person who sold it to me.

I used to employ a person who tried to make a living out of lawsuits. It worried me until the day he left.

PopYoColla
The deficit is out of control because WE the American people got exactly what we demanded from our government. Following September 11 2001, we demanded homeland security, we got it. We demamded transportation security, we got it. We demamded prescription coverage for seniors, we got it. We damamded we send billions to the Gulf Coast following Hurricane Katrina, we got it. The the war in Iraq, while we can debate the our instigation of the war it was a BI-PARTISIAN decision that our leaders made. The point is all of this cost money$$$$.

PopYoColla
"Last time a Democrat was in office, the country held a nice fat budget surplus. Now, the deficts out of control."

Last time a Democrat was in "office" the Republicans held congress and brought spending down. The stock market and housing market were booming as a result of the Reagan deregulation and tax cuts, and the lowering of capital gains tax rates by Clinton. And Clinton cut military spending drastically because Reagan correctly bet that an arms race with a socialist country would force the socialist country to fold; ergo the "peace dividend" with which the "Democrat in office" had virtually nothing to do.

Re Edwards
Personal injury law practice is not a crime. I don't doubt that plenty on this board would be the first in line to sue somebody if they thought they'd been harmed. Get serious.

Hildebeast, Osama Obama and Pretty Boy
Those three socialists are straight out of the Communist Manifesto. Karl Marx and Lenin would have loved them. Remember one of the initials of the U.S.S.R is SOCIALIST. If They have there way they will try and turn our wonderful country into the U.S.S.A. United Socialist States of America. They, together with retarded entertainment industry and the left wing media are dumbing down the already dumb Americans who will vote for them unless ALL Americans wake up.
Add John McCain to the list with Feingold who suppresed the 1st Amdt and Bush who was dumb enough to admit it and signed it into law.

I Guess it Helps to be Cute, After All

From Lilly: "Many of our politicians are very, very rich, some with inherited money---at least Edwards worked for his."

From PopYoColla (I like your moniker, by the way): "Edwards is talking about raising taxes on himself and people like him who can afford it and he's a hypocrite?"

And just how did the pretty one earn it? By suing doctors on trumped up medical malpractice claims. If Chairman Hillary wants to do something constructive about healthcare costs, have her push for tort reform and put bloodsuckers like John Edwards out of business.

It's not JUST the government that knows how to damage our economy. Users and hypocrites such as Mr. Edwards have also had a hand in the high costs of American society.

He worked for his? Give me a break.

and by the way...
since when has it been a crime to be rich and fight for the poor??? Edwards is talking about raising taxes on himself and people like him who can afford it and he's a hypocrite? Ask the government to cut federal taxes on gasoline and see what they tell you.

Republicrats?
Last time a Democrat was in office, the country held a nice fat budget surplus. Now, the deficts out of control. When you point a finger, remeber three are pointing back at you.

Clyde9
I know Clyde, it really stinks that the Republicans have really become the Republicrats.

That's why I'm turning more and more to the Libertarian party. They seem to be the only one that seriously wants to follow the Constitution.

Of course I think most people in society think more socialistic in nature, because they're ignorant of economics for the most part. They see something as too expensive, like healthcare, and they immediately think it's because of greedy doctors or something, totally unaware of how the government has caused the climb in health care costs, and they're going to make it worse.

The problem is the mindset that most people always think "The government should do something about [insert problem here]".

It's sad.

Spending
With due apologies to sailors everywhere, the Democrats spend money like the proverbial drunken sailor on shore leave. The Republicans spend money like that same proverbial sailor but still sober.

Each party spends too much money, but the real question is which one does or will spend the most?

Clyde9

socialist policies
Ms Clinton hopes to inherit a booming economy (kinda the way her husband did) that she can tax to the max to finance her dream programs.

The socialist/communistic policies espoused by Clinton/Obama/Edwards would not affect THEIR wealth or lifestyle at all: a communistic society is one with an elite upper class (to which they would obviously belong), which directs and oversees the equality of the masses (ie rest of us). The only people who can accept liberalism are either members of the elite, those who consider themselves victims, or those who simply don't get it.

I think it's a good thing (and intended by our founding fathers) that Americans are NOT unified, but polarized. It's what keeps the system in healty check.

Edwards?
I saw an interesting article the other day exploring why the MSM are piling onto Edwards. Theory is that since he is the candidate taking squarest aim at big business and big business owns the MSM, there might just be some connection. Article pointed out that Giuliani's fee for giving a speech is "many times" that of Edwards but nobody is mentioning that. And somehow I doubt that George Bush or Mitt Romney or Dick Cheney goes to Supercuts. Many of our politicians are very, very rich, some with inherited money---at least Edwards worked for his.

Liberalgoodman -- Lame Comment
LBG, if your complaint is that Mr. Hill has not offered more troubling quotes from "Chairman Hillary" (thanks for that very apt nickname, wiseone -- I like it), then chew on a few of these:

“Many of you are well enough off that [President Bush’s] tax cuts may have helped you. We’re saying that for America to get back on track, we’re probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We’re going to have to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.”
(Hillary grandstanding at a fund raising speech in San Francisco; SFGate.com 6/28/2004.)

“We just can’t trust the American people to make those types of choices…. Government has to make those choices for people”
(From the book “I’ve Always Been A Yankee Fan” by Thomas D. Kuiper, p 20 - Hillary to Rep. Dennis Hastert in 1993 discussing her expensive, disastrous taxpayer-funded health care plan)

“I am a fan of the social policies that you find in Europe”
Hillary in 1996 From the book “I’ve Always Been A Yankee Fan” by Thomas D. Kuiper, p. 76 - Hillary in 1996)


liberalgoodman
What the author means by maligning rich people is the way Hillary and other Dems constantly talk about the "rich" as though they're a bad bunch of people, they're selfish and horrible, they need to have some of their money taken away so others that don't have much money can have some.

It's not some vast right wing conspiracy to point out that fact. I think it's vast left wing conspiracy to try and make communism and socialism look good to people, by preying on the uneducated people of the country that don't have the smarts to know they're being led off a cliff.

To YouSoMakeMeLaugh
First of all, what in the world do you mean by the free market game that is bankrupting us??? That makes no sense, because then you go about describing things, such as corporat welfare, people cheating on their taxes, etc, as if that's capitalism and the free market.

Corporate welfare, people cheating on their taxes, lobbying for special regulations and laws to give them an edge over competition is NOT capitalism. That's an example of companies and others using government to give them an advantage that they would not have if capitalism were really at work here, but it isn't.

The free market is always better for everyone, poor, middle class, rich...EVERYONE.

There are no examples of a truly free market taking advantage of other people or ruining an economy. The only examples out there are horrible people such as Ken Lay of Enron, companies getting special treatment via government corporate welfare, or people breaking the law in some way.

What Hilary, Obama, and Edwards want is socialism and/or communism. We've all seen how that works. It will HORRIBLE for our country if they get their way.

And if socialized medicine ever does get implemented here in the U.S.A., we'll all be very sorry...although it's pretty close to being there now anyways.

Wrong on purpose?
Is Hill wrong on purpose, or just dumb? He writes: "Hillary Rodham Clinton has been doing that thing she does so well - - maligning rich people." It might be wrong to ask rich people to pay more tax, but is not maligning them.

Getting liberals' positions wrong day after day is not an accident, it's vast right wing conspiracy, or at least a big right bad habit. You can't handle the truth, and why bother?

Social Security
use to pay for children attending college, pays spouses that never contributed, and children with with handicaps (tho, both parents are alive)

not sure why SS is sucked away by anyone other than the contributor.

The Republicans blew it
Re: Republican Congress increasing spending.

In 1995 the Republican Congress had a stand-off with Democrat President Bill Clinton over spending. The Republicans wanted the budget balanced and Clinton refused to cut entitlement spending to do it.

So, after a government shut-down and adverse publicity, the Republicans agreed to balance the budget by cutting military spending.

In 2000, and 2004 the Republicans won control of both the White House and Congress. Seemingly their goal of balancing the budget by decreasing and controlling entitlements would be achieved.

Wrong.

Instead of balancing the budget and reigning in the welfare state Bush and Congress expanded it with spending for education and big spending for Prescription Medicare benefits.

They got voted out last November for this, not Iraq. Now Hillary wants to take government confiscation of wealth to a whole new level. Entitlements already comprise 63% of federal government. Now Hillary wants government to comprise an even larger percentage of GNP.

She is no longer "Queen Hillary". She is now "Chairman Hillary". And moderate, RINO Republicans have no one but themselves to blame for it.

Good posts
Trulib does a good job of pointing out how employees pay for their own health insurance regardless of what the company's plan says.

Here are some other items employees pay for with money they never see either because their wages/salary are less so the employer can pay for it or because amounts are "withheld" from the employee's paycheck cover them:

Retirement insurance (Social Security)
Federal Income Taxes
State Income Taxes
Local Income Taxes
Federal Unemployment Insurance
State Unemployment Insurnce
Workman's Compensation Insurance

With the exception of group health insurance and, possibly, Workman's Comp, you could insure yourself more effectively and less expensively than the government does for all of these things.

The best example is Social Security. The average American will work for roughly 40 years and have 15% deducted from his pay. This will come to roughly $180,000 in payments, NOT INCLUDING INTEREST. In return he will begin receiving roughly $1,400/month at age 65. That means he won't even get back the bare amount he paid in until age 76, 11 years later, NOT INCLUDING INTEREST.

But if the government lets him put his 15%withholding into a private account that earns just 6% each year, he will have a private account of roughly $530,000 by the time he reaches age 65. And he will continue to draw interest on the unspent portion of this monmey throughout his retirement. That means he can spend $2,650 per month (compared to $1,400 from SS) in retirement and never touch the principle.

And that is just at 6%. Considering that the stock market historically has paid 12%-16% on average for long-term investors, there is no other logical conclusion than that SS is just another oppressive, big-government rip-off.

So go ahead. Elect Hillary. And just turn all your money over to Big Brother.

YouSoMakeMeLaugh:
There's nothing like a little knowledge to make you look stupid. Try doing a little more research and thinking through on the points you raise. For just one example: the economy has created 4.5 million jobs over the last 24 months. You can google this. What lack of opportunity for young people are you complaining about? It seems to me people like you are just argumentative because these statistitics are just easily understood, especially in this day of the Internet. If it cost you money to be wrong, I think people like you would be more careful. Geesh.

LL in La- Would that be in LA
as in Los Angeles, or La as in Lousiana?

Either way, both areas are subject to the flood of illegals who are going to move in and force socialism down our throats.

Communism by any other name . . .
. . . is still a rose . . .

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury.
Alexander Tytler

Wow, isn't it odd that ultimate Truth can sometimes be expressed with an economy of words?

Have to agree with TruLib
You don't seek excuses and rationalizations like "extraordinary expenditures", you punish Republicans by voting them out of, and refusing to vote them into office for consistently talking the talk of limited government but walking the walk of big government big spenders. Is cutting taxes or raising taxes the issue when both lead to increased revenue for profligate spending and only bigger government? Don't think so.

"...man is not free unless government is limited. There's a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts."
-Ronald Reagan

buying votes with Other people's money
AHH! the benefits of selling envy to the ever populous poor and middle class.




Only one form of wealth redistribution makes sense; those who advocate it should be the first to have all of their wealth seized with no control over to whom and how it gets dispensed.

More In-Depth Views Needed
I'd like to invite everyone to visit my blog (click on name above) to see the earliest -- and, I think, the best -- analyses of the debates, Democratic and Republican. Today, I have a piece on "The Dems Debate: Questions CNN Won't Ask." I explain why the MSM won't ask certain questions. I ask them instead. Your comments are always welcome.

Hitlery
You know laughboy its nice to a socialist
if you are rich.
They all say they care for the poor but wont
live in their neighborhoods.
The biggest reason for our economy going OVERSEAS
(actually thats how you spell the word)is because
of big labor not the companies.
Also talk about tax cheats read the list of criminals that slick Willie pardoned the last day
of his administration one of them cheated the goverment of 48m dollars. But that's ok right!


spending
The pubbies were thrown out of office for excessive spending not the war

The commielibs among us...
...don't like to hear this, but the fact remains that the top 50% of wage earners in this country already pay 93% of the taxes. And the vast majority of those are by no means "rich", such as the Clintons, Kennedys, Edwards, Pelosis, Feinsteins, etc, ad nauseam.

Another fact the lefties don't like is that every time taxes ARE cut, revenues to the Federal treasury go up. Only problem is that the idiots in Congress will spend it faster than it comes in.

Of course, you can only blame the Congress just so much for that. Yet another fact, albeit a sad one (even if it was inevitable), is that the people of this country have developed an "entitlement mentality". We've been spoon-fed (well, some of us have) on government handouts (which are never as much as the recipient wants) to where many among us expect and demand these "goodies" as a Constitutional right. And the Repubs know this, too. And since the most important consideration, overriding all others, to any politician, regardless of party, is getting re-elected, they end up digging into the Treasury just as much as the Commiecrats do.

Of course, it was the Commiecrats who started this mess, and one of the saddest things I ever saw was Al Gore's acceptance speech at the 2000 'Crat convention. Most of his speech was nothing but appeals to every deaf-redheaded-lesbian-shortstop-mother special interest group to "vote for me, and I'll give you goodies from the public treasury". Pathetic, but it works, for at least half the electorate.

A couple of centuries ago, some historian (whose name escapes me at the moment) once postulated that no democracy lasts more than a couple of centuries, because after that, the plebs figure out they can vote themselves bread and circuses from the public treasury. It's happening here, and I just hope I don't live to see the aftermath, as it won't be pretty.

Marie
Your fears should be placed on the education industry and on maintaining economic freedom. As long as we have a well educated workforce capable of adapting to a changing business environment and the freedom to adapt we will be fine.

There is danger in having a young workforce that can't multiply two times two without a calculator. There is even greater danger from a government that thinks it can shield us from foreign competition. Herbert Hoover announced he would sign Smoot-Hawley and the market dropped like a stone because investors knew it would damage the nations economy.

Job creation in America is the envy of the world. It is that way because of freedom. Its really messy and its sometimes painful but it is the only thing that works in the long run.

Lynne
I believe TrueLib is referring more to No Child Left Behind, the Medicare Drug Coverage, and other discretionary spending not related to the war or Katrina. Although, the amount of pork attached to those bills has seriously increased their price tag beyond the already staggering costs of the mainline bill. Those are the reasons that the Republicans need to be punished.

Lynne
The money the government transfers in the form of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid dwarfs everything else. At a point in the not too distant future these three will consume all of the federal budget. Conservatives know entitlements are the path to disaster and expanding the entitlements was not what the Republicans were sent to Washington to do.

I think people that push us down the path to bankruptcy should be punished.

Global Warning?
By the way Hilary and the likes are flying on private jets, you would think that they have no concern for our planet. Surely they should be an example to all of us and start walking and riding on this great infrastructure of buses and subways.

Not a chance. What they really want is for you to start walking and stop using this precious commodity, oil. Yes, their fear, and their push for the global warming scare, is they are afraid that we all run out of oil and that they would have to park their airplanes and start walking like everybody else.

In their small mind they reason that since oil has to be a finite commodity we will run out quickly, especially at the rate they consume it.

Well have no fear because capitalism is hear and if well could get government out of the way we could find a lot more oil. Oh, by-the-way, let us use up the Saudi Oil first. Like this when they run out we will have plenty in our back yard.

Taxes
If paying their "fair share" is so important, then why not propose a tax on wealth. If the rich have too much, then have a tax on all assets over 10 million dollars. How many in congress (and hollywood) would support that.

We are all paying through
the nose because of people like teddy kennedy and other libs who get laws passed like no person can be turned away from an ER for anything. The "poor", mostly those who would rather buy designer sneakers than buy health care insurance, take their snotty nosed rugrats in at our expense.

Hit Medi-care age and the Dr's want to run all kinds of tests on you that were never ordered before because the taxpayers now pick up the tab. Many extra tests are run to keep the Dr's butt covered because of people like john edwards who will sue on a moments notice and stupid juries handing out other people's money like it was candy to "compensate" for some perceived slight.

Clinton is a communist IMO and will destroy this country as we know it, this welfare nanny state needs to be dis-mantled not expanded, all she will do is make it worse.



trulib
"Your thinking displays another fallacy. You state that your health insurance costs had been payed by your employer. That is wrong. Those costs were covered by the revenue you generated for your employer. You payed for it by accepting a smaller paycheck."

I knew, and wish I'd remembered that yes, and even knew that my PENSION! costs were passed on.

But, my paycheck was not smaller relative to what today's starter-outers are. My employer did not have to compete with 3rd world competitors.

You've struck a chord with me tho - are our children with 1st world expenses competing against 3rd world salaries?

motherbelt
nope - wish I had said it

Shared Misery
"Yet the Democratic front-runners can’t think beyond the centuries-old idea of economic re-distribution - - a process of government taking things away from those who seem to “have,” and giving things away to those who seem to “have not” - - an idea that has itself produced devastating consequences."

This idea never loses its appeal because, even if the "have nots" don't benefit greatly, they get the satisfaction of sticking it to the "haves." However, like in the old Soviet Union, when everyone is "equal" in their "wealth", it ends up that everyone is equally miserable. Except, of course, for the "elites", like Hillary and Edwards, who will NEVER be standing in line to get health care or anything else!

Equal Misery
Marie says:

"That is the simple fact of life that so many people do not understand. Costs are always passed along to the end user. I hear many advocate increasing taxes on business. Business does not pay taxes, business collects taxes."

Well said, Marie! Business always collect their money from their customers to pay their taxes. I always marvel at the amount of people who don't understand that the amount of money an employer shells out for health insurance for his employees is part of the pay package, given in lieu of money to the employee. The same people, when they get their tax refund will boast "I didn't pay any taxes...I got money back!"

Marie
The cost of medical care has been driven up in America by the intrusion of government. Many among us want to fix that problem by involving the government to a greater degree. They think the best way to put out the fire is to smother it with gasoline.

Your thinking displays another fallacy. You state that your health insurance costs had been payed by your employer. That is wrong. Those costs were covered by the revenue you generated for your employer. You payed for it by accepting a smaller paycheck.

That is the simple fact of life that so many people do not understand. Costs are always passed along to the end user. I hear many advocate increasing taxes on business. Business does not pay taxes, business collects taxes.

Laughmaker
It isn't the free market that will bankrupt our country but a huge government spending very dime they can borrow or steal. Transfering money from the pockets of taxpayers to anyone,be it corporate interests or medicare recipient, is wrong and a violation of the compact that created this nation.

That said, who is it that wants to expand the spending? I am outraged that the Republicans expanded government spending as they did and they deserved to be punished for it. Your three heroes want to spend even more.

As much as I admire Smith's thinking on economics he was wrong to think that social benefits start with sympathy. If I hire you to do a job it would be because I can make more money than if I did not hire you. If you accept the job it is because you would be better off than if you didn't. Both actions would be socially benificial. Both actions are driven by self interest.

Enlightened self interest is the best guide to social action.

It's simple
If you want to have a Socialist/Communist country. Vote any of these Demo Sociopaths into office! You will get your wish.

something is wrong
something has changed:

My daughter's husband works for Home Depot. They pay over $600 a month for healthcare, last month $300 in co-pays for 2 visits to the emergency room, and an additional $100 in co-pays to the follow-up pediatricians & prescriptions. (Last year Home Depot dumped $211 million into a severance package for ousted CEO Nardelli, healthcare coverage for their other employees is an expensive option) They are struggling along with most of the families in their area of small homes. Their neighbors' son (12 yrs old) ran up a $40,000 hospital bill and he's maxed out this year's health coverage.


no, its not supposed to be easy - BUT - when my husband and I started out, our healthcare was covered by our employers and we could see that we were getting ahead.

And NO, Hillary is NOT the solution.

I don't have a solution, yet it seems we are headed in reverse.

YouSoMakeMeLaugh
Your right the Clintons do hate the "free market" that's why they chose instead to use insider trading and other unlawful or sleezy acts to gain their wealth (estimated at 62 million dollars a year). Of course they hate to corporate welfare lord knows that AMTRAC needs to either make a profit or close it's doors.

wealth of creations
unfettered capitalism or totalitarian gov't - or both working together - as with free tread and immigration gone wild is not best - but checks and balances in government of, by and for US
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