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Wednesday, September 12, 2007
Austin Bay :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Petraeus-Crocker Testimony
by Austin Bay
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"Are we fixed yet?"

House Armed Services Committee Chairman Ike Skelton's question -- asked after Gen. David Petraeus' microphone failed to work -- is something of a metaphor both for Washington and Baghdad.

That microphone failure at the start of Petraeus' dramatic congressional testimony is an ironic reminder.

If it can go wrong, it will. Murphy's Law affects everything, but Gen. Murphy rules warfare. War is the effort where everything goes wrong, and the winner's art is to ultimately be less wrong than the loser. France's Georges Clemenceau provided a more elegant rendering: War is a series of catastrophes that results in a victory. It's why perseverance and will are the traits of victors. Murphy's Law also rules well-prepared and long-anticipated congressional testimony.

But from now on, every mid-level Iraqi ministry official is going to grin when a U.S. diplomat or reporter asks him how his reconstruction and maintenance operations are going. The sharp-tongued deputy will say, "Our parliament's microphones work."

And given the often-bitter congressional critique of the Iraqi government's various failures and faults, the wisecrack is well-deserved.

With their testimony, Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker are trying to get it fixed -- help repair and prepare America's politics.

In an article published by The Weekly Standard on July 25, 2005, I wrote: "Al-Qaida's jihadists plotted a multigenerational war. That means we must fight a multi-administration war, which means bridging the whipsaw of the U.S. political cycle. ... The Bush administration has not prepared the nation for that -- at least not in any focused manner. And that omission constitutes negligence. However, Bush critics who advocate withdrawal are even more negligent, for withdrawal without ensuring Iraqi stability is a self-inflicted defeat leading to extremely dire consequences. "

With the Petraeus-Crocker testimony, the Bush administration has finally begun to build that political bridge, albeit in an awkward, belated manner. The administration's Democratic opponents deserve no credit, however. These contemporary practitioners of the paranoid style in American politics have chosen angry theatrics and smear over common sense.

The next six to 12 months will determine if Petraeus and Crocker succeeded. If they do succeed, it will benefit both the Iraqi and American people, and ultimately benefit everyone on the planet who wants a more peaceful and prosperous 21st century.

In the near-term, the Petraeus-Crocker testimony produced two definite political losers: MoveOn.org and Iran. During her initial statement, Rep. Illena Ros-Lehtinen called attention to MoveOn's paid political smear published in The New York Times. The full-page ad featured a picture of Gen. Petraeus and dubbed him "General Betray Us."

The ad is, of course, puerile politics, the ill-considered offspring of MoveOn's Internet rants and the hard left's "new McCarthyism." Remember, the hard lefties rile at Ann Coulter-style attacks that call them traitors, but in their world it's business-as-usual to slur a professional soldier.

MoveOn's ad backfired -- and it was very much part of the testimony. Iran was the international loser. Petraeus' and Crocker's detailed discussion of Iranian malfeasance in Iraq was damning. Petraeus included the following in his prepared remarks: "We have also targeted Shia militia extremists, capturing a number of senior leaders and fighters, as well as the deputy commander of Lebanese Hezbollah Department 2800, the organization created to support the training, arming, funding and, in some cases, direction of the militia extremists by the Iranian Republican Guard Corps' Quds Force. These elements have assassinated and kidnapped Iraqi governmental leaders, killed and wounded our soldiers with advanced explosive devices provided by Iran, and indiscriminately rocketed civilians in the International Zone and elsewhere. It is increasingly apparent to both Coalition and Iraqi leaders that Iran ... seeks to ... fight a proxy war against the Iraqi state and coalition forces in Iraq."

When asked -- rather snottily -- by Rep. Tom Lantos if the United States would pursue diplomacy with Iran, Crocker replied that he had met with the Iranians and "the conclusion I came away with after a couple of rounds was that the Iranians were only interested in the appearance of discussion, of being seen at the table with the U.S. instead of actually doing serious business."

MoveOn.org will call Crocker a liar, but history will prove the ambassador gave us the unvarnished truth.

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About The Author

Austin Bay Austin Bay is author of three novels. His third novel, The Wrong Side of Brightness, was published by Putnam/Jove in June 2003. He has also co-authored four non-fiction books, to include A Quick and Dirty Guide to War: Third Edition (with James Dunnigan, Morrow, 1996).
 
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©Creators Syndicate
Petraeus and wishful thinking
It was astonishing, listening to Petraeus before the Senate. Alledging that sectarian violence dropped since the surge, he actually claimed that it dropped before any more troops were deployed, based simply on the effect of the annoucement of the surge. With that sort of logic, all the general staff would have to do is to issue regular announcements that the U.S. is going to try really harder with more and more troops and equipment, and in no time it will be able to withdraw all its troops without any Iraqi or Kurd ever noticing they were gone.

Petraeus was one stationed in Kansas for training. Apparently he learned his tactics from the man behind the screen.

Like Chuck Hagel, I am not impressed.

Diogenes,
And we should care about your whether or not you're impressed for what reason?

ARE YOU, over in the Middle East to prove that what Petraeus and Crocker are saying isn't true? Or are you just going from your Daily Kook, HuffandPuff, Dimwits United or Bowelmovement.org, talking points sheets?

In otherwords, we don't care what you think so go back to your playpen and shut up.

Warren tiny

You make an excellent moveon.org script reader.

You spent almost as much time as the congressmen not listening to the testimony. But you are right Bosnia and "Iraq I" weren't wars.

Diogenes can't find his light today.

The General
The surge was supposed to give the parliment some time for political reconsiliation that did not happen. Violence is statistically down but there are still over 1,000 attacks every week. Some Sunni Tribal leaders have aligned with us for now and that is a good thing, but there seems to be no real strategy for victory. The General never spoke about any strategy for victory in Iraq except to suggest that when Iraq'a army and police force are ready to take over we can leave. By the general's own admission that process was redrailed by sectarian violence. So we are back to the same conclusions as the Baker Commission that their is no military solution.

These hearing were non-sense, because they are based upon a false premise. General's do not make policy, they cope with the situation that is presented to them.

This is Bush's war and he is hiding behind the military. As to the premise of the neo-cons that leaving Iraq emboldens the Jihadists.

I would argue that staying in a Iraq without a clear plan for vistory and without an exit strategy weakens the US. The Iraq war has done a lot to reinforce the notion that US military power is limited and can be countered by unconventional forces.

We need a new strategy that builds on our strengths rather than our weaknesses and that will not happen until we are out of Iraq.

Responding To Small
The ONLY appropriate response to Warren's posts (and the only one we should give):

And your point IS???


The Undeclared Wars
GOOD GRIEF! I feel I have happened upon a neoliberal blog. I am so angry at these idiots who continue repeating lies of the left as tho they will turn into truths, I don't know where to start...so I will stop.

"Acoustics"?
Curious that Skelton mentioned the "acoustics" of the room as the reason that those is attendance should behave as mature adults during a congressional hearing. More on this later.

Following Skelton's and Lantos' "we've made up our minds: don't cloud the issue with facts" smears before Patraeus had even spoken, former chairman Duncan Hunter (who would probably make a great prez, but it ain't gonna happen, especially given Fred Thompson's entry into the race) and Ileana Ross-Lehtenin provided a nice lead-in to Patraeus' testimony.

Of course, with the competence we've come to not expect from any facet of our government, the General's microphone failed. Guess they're just not used to setting up for such an event? And Elvis hangs out at convenience stores.

Skelton again noted the "acoustics" in the room. Skelton is a liar and/or a moron: acoustics do not cause microphones to malfunction, just as "adults" should be expected to behave as such in such an environment.

It came across as a cheap trick. Just as when those who came to disrupt were leisurely escorted out of the room by one officer, killing a few minutes, when these nuisances should have been taken by both arms and promptly "frog-marched" out of the room in 15 seconds.

Skelton is apparently incapable of this sort of function. He and Lantos both came across as senile antagonists.

Thank goodness Robert Wexler, the former star of "Married with Children," came along to spew such malicious propaganda that the Skelton & Lantos show look almost professional and balanced. Almost.


Does Iraq war make us safer?
Petraeus: I “Don’t Know” If The Iraq War Makes U.S. Safer

In this mind-blowing exchange, our highest ranking general in Iraq can’t articulate why we’re there and whether it’s good that we are.

The Nation: Republican Senator John Warner asked Petraeus a pointed question: “Do you feel that [Iraq war] is making America safer”?

Petraeus paused before responding. He then said: “I believe this is indeed the best course of action to achieve our objectives in Iraq.”

That was, of course, a non-answer. And Warner wasn’t going to let the general dodge the bullet. He repeated the question: “Does the [Iraq war] make America safer?”

Petraeus replied, “I don’t know, actually. I have not sat down and sorted in my own mind.”

UPDATE: Here’s some video of the exchange and of a very emotional Joe Biden and Chris Matthews, stunned that the General in Iraq can’t defend the policy. Make sure you listen towards the end (about 3:15) when Chris Matthews says, “It’s unimaginable, UNIMAGINABLE that Petraeus came before the Senate and spoke [like that]!”

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/petraeus-i-dont-know-if-the-iraq-war-makes-us-safer


The congress - The Surge Testimony.
The circus that the dems are hosting will be preempted when Bush bombs Iran's nuclear facilities (and their air defenses and communications and command). This will significantly change the dynamics of the war on terror whose hot zone is currently Iraq. It will put Syria and Saudi Arabia on notice. The world will be a better place, but we still have to worry about a back door attack from the democrats, designed to kill more Americans and to get them elected.

Obama and Iraq.
Obama wants us to leave Iraq NOW. I say NOT now, Obama. Now that the military option is working, we need to help them settle their political quagmire and then we leave.

http://OsiSpeaks.com or http://OsiSpeaks.org

Who Won Petraeus Week?
Did the hearings this week bolster support for the President and his mission in Iraq? Or did they give the Democrats the proof they need to press harder for withdrawal? Read and discuss this at http://www.thecoin.org

Vox
Kudos to your post. Hilarious ending about Wexler making the fence sitting treasonists Skelton and Lantos seemed balanced...LOL.

Today's democrat party makes me sick to be an American. Being at war just doesnt seem to matter more than the political power struggle that will always be waged in DC. At least elected officials of the past knew that our troops come first, EVEN BEFORE POLITICS.

John Konop & JMO51
JMO51 says: General's do not make policy, they cope with the situation that is presented to them.

John Konop cites Chris Matthews saying "“It’s unimaginable, UNIMAGINABLE [that Petaeus would answer "I don't know" when asked if the war was making the US safer]"

Come on guys...get your stories straight. Either the General is doing his job as a military commander, or he's dabbling in politics...which one do you guys want?

Murphy's Law has nothing to do with war or the buffoons in Congress. It is the Peter Principle running amok in Washington DC.

Petraeus, on the other hand, has earned his stars and the respect he SHOULD be afforded. When the idiots in Congress start behaving like something other than petulant two-year-olds, they might have enough sense to answer a direct question honestly by saying "I don't know."

But then they'd look like they actually rub two brain cells together instead of taking their marching orders from disgusting places like MoveOn.org and the looney left Democrats.


@Konop
Thanks for letting us know how easily your mind is "blown". You have a gift for overstatement John.

It is not the General's job to determine what does or does not make us safer. That is for the civilian leadership to decide. Americanism 101. His job is to fulfill the mission successfully - which he apparently is doing.

Nevertheless, we know what DOES NOT make us safer:

-Continually threatening to pull the troops out of Iraq or defund the war. This emboldens the terrorists and Iran. We know this from simple historical observation.

-Acting the paper tiger. The 8 years of the Clinton admin proved this made the world a MUCH more dangerous place.

-Forcing ridiculous leftist-inspired Rules of Engagement on our troops.

-Shutting down Abu Gharib and letting dangerous terrorists go free.

-Shutting down Gitmo and letting dangerous terrorists go free.

-Putting up a wall of separation between the FBI and the CIA thereby opening us up to the 9/11 attacks (thank you Bill Clinton).

-Letting our enemies know how we surveil them (thank you NY Times).

-Letting our enemies know the location of our CIA interrogation compounds (thank you WaPo).

-Appeasement (thank you Dem party).

-PCism.

-Undermining the war effort in any way.

This list and many more points that we could collectively identify recognizes liberal childishness in general and the Dem party in particular as the epicenter of the mindset that makes this country less safe.


Why do you bother to read
Warren Small. Without reading his comments, you know he will be negative and condescending and his logic tortured and will take the opposite position of the article.

Keep it up libs
Keep up the attacks on Petraus. You are only proving what we have been saying all along. It's about time you dropped the pretense of supporting the troops. Calling them stupid, rapists, thugs, and murderers but hey, we support them don't you know. The veil (or hijab) has been lifted and you people are as ugly as we thought you were.

Beeblebrox
Well said!

I have to agree
with the writer in that we weren't prepared for a multigenerational war. However, prepared or not, I am not sure that is a concept Americans could wrap their heads around. We don't understand that kind of hatred because we don't hate. The irony of it all is that if this country weren't so divided this war would be closer to being done. America united is something to be feared. Fear is what they understand.

Petraus & Crocker
Conducted themselves as gentlemen and told the truth as they saw it. The Defeatocrats in Congress, The MSM and Moron.org conducted themselves as what they are. Lying, Cheating, Traitorous, Cowards!

I tend to read Col. Bay on StrategyPage
--
...where the commentary tends predominantly to be far better informed.

I get the impression that - on a smaller scale, of course - Col. Bay's Townhall contributions seem to draw "Liberal" flamers just about as promptly as does Ann Coulter's stuff.

Well, hell. He's just an expert on military history and armed conflict (a graduate of the Army War College at Carlisle Barracks) with considerable command experience, and his various editions of *A Quick and Dirty Guide to War* don't fall onto the reading list of the average KosClown.

He's not as pretty as Ann, either.

But it's nice to know that Townhall carries at least one columnist who can and does speak with authority on the Islamic Whackjobs' War Against Civilization (AKA "The War on Terror").


--
"Hell, Chuck Yeager could do it in his sleep while on fire, I'm sure."

..-- James Nicoll

Betlebrox

Total agreenent
Re: the General saying I don't know, I would rather hear that than a load of BS like I heard from the congressmen.

They were a snoozefest
The hearings monday and tuesday were a royal snoozefest, but at the same time they were fascinating. It was amazing to see the verbal contortions our democrat "leaders" went through, trying to putCrocker and Petraeus in a bad light.

The verbal gymnastics were highlighted by Harry Reid and nancy pelousy proudly waving their custom made white flags during a break. I hope the RNC got video of the whole thing there are plenty of ready made campaign commercials in there. I also think it's very interesting that none of the dem presidential candidates refuted the Moveon ad. In fact I'm pretty sure they had prior knowledge, since an anonymous dem actually admitted as much the day before saying "outside sources will call petraeus a liar for us" (paraphrasing)

The lone voice of reason from the dem side was Joe Lieberman. (why is he still a democrat?)

Although I'm still mad at him over shamnesty, Lindsey Graham did an excellent job tearing the dems apart during his questions to the general.
(much like his performance in the Alito confirmations)

IMHO I think the dems were big losers over the 2 days.

and to JohnKonop,

It's not General Petraeus' job to know if Iraq makes the country safer. You have no idea how the chain of command works do you? He is in charge of creating order in Iraq, not setting government policy. The very question was wrongheaded, and only uttered in order to give "Useful Idiots" a good talking point. It seemed to work in your case huh?


Petraeus-Crocker testimony
What is missing in this debate over whether Petraeus is giving us an accurate picture or not is the question of what happens now. It is not sufficient to just continue the surge or to stay the course. What do we now do to bring US involvement to a conclusion? The report by Petreaus appears to be a mixed bag in terms of whether the violence is significantly reduced. But assuming that, a successful conclusion would seem to require, progress by the Iraqi gpovernment toward political reconcilation, progress toward restored infrastructure and services, a restored economy, some negotiation by the U.S. with the Iranian and Syrian governments. None of these things appear to happening or are even on anyone's agenda. The surge in itself is not or will not lead to a conclusion of the wwar. It can only provide cover for these other things which are not happening.

Warren Small
Tell me Mr. Small are you writing as an American or a Brit?
You said, "No wonder the USA looks ridiculous in the world's eyes these days. A commander who spiels away with bogus PowerPoint stats, regurgitating lines put into his mouth by WH ghostwriters to prove that it matters whether we "stay the course" till next spring (when the Army will be shot anyhow) or begin to acknowledge that we are beaten pronto." Whats with the WE garbage? Acknowledge we are beaten? Sorry we will leave that the British Royal Navy and Royal "Marines" who had no problem throwing thier hands up and surrendering to an Iranian "navy" patrol boat. Of course this was witnessed by a frigate of Her Majesty's Navy who was paralyzed with the fear of what the world would think if they lowered cannon and took care of business. Lets not forget the British Navy helo that scurried away from the "heavily armed" Iranians. All while the Iranians yanked down the Jack and raised the Iranian flag on a British vessel!

Whose military is broken? Wonder why the Iranians did not try that with a "broken" American Navy vessel? I think you know the answer, so save your lame comments for your own military pal. By the way how many carriers does the British Navy have now?

Mess in Iraq
One of the things that should concern us, that is implicit in the Petraeus strategy in Iraq, is that we are increasingly allied with the Sunni. When we are seen as allied with one side in a civil war, that inevitably will invite more hostility from the other side. Supporting this point was a report yesterday that an increasing number of the attacks against U.S. troops are coming from the Shiites. If we continue to ally ourselves with the Sunni, we will find yet again the war again taking a new direction with us supporting the minority Sunni against the majority Shiites and their government both of which will be supported by Iran.

Do we really want to be the supporter of one side in a larger Sunni-Shiite conflict in the Middle East. This seemingly welcome Sunni alliance with the U.S. could lead us in that direction.

JHP
The important things you mention, especially reconstruction, services and a restored economy are immaterial to most TH posters who consider themselves conservatives. That's because they need to frame their arguements in a partisan fashion that makes it seem as if the Democrats are the root of all the problems in Iraq.(see Beeblebrox 10:59 post for a good example). The Democrats are, of course, guilty of the same tactics and myopic partisanship.

Unfortunately, that leaves only a few who are actually debating circumstances in Iraq bereft of a left/right dichotomy.

utahnotmormon
You are probably right but, perhaps naively, I still hope for some rational debate on the issue.

Warren Small
Why don't you list your credentials so that we can understand how it is that you are so "wise". What is your background that you can "armchair quarterback" this entire situation and negatively critique those on the frontlines?
I think you need to shut up. Especially now that we know for a fact that you are a fool. Should have kept your mouth shut and just let people speculate about you being a fool.

You don't deserve the title of "American". You need to find a Muslim country with sharia law and move there.

And to add to Lolo2
the famous words of that wise sage:

"It is far safer to be feared than loved... Returning to the question of being loved or feared, I sum up by saying, that since his being loved depends upon his subjects, while his being feared depends upon himself, a wise prince should build on what is his own, and not on what rests with others."

- (Machiavelli pgs. 43, 45)

Faith
The surge is a tactic that will end due to the reality that we do not have the forces to continue to operate at this level - not because we have other choices or options. Petreaus can only control the military side of the equation. No one, including Crocker, has the ability to predict the political side. We would like to hope that the Shia's and Sunni's will find a path to peace - but if that peace means equal protection under the law then this can only be achieved if the Shia's rescind their adoption of the Koran as the basis of civil law, and of the insertion of clerics into that process which gives it primacy over the constitution and their courts. We, in a practical sense, are proceeding on faith. We would hope that once we have Iraqi forces in place - that they won't be dominated by the Shia who, in turn, will then tell us to go home. After which time they will run the non-Kurdish areas as they see fit - whether we like it or not. We would hope that their relationships with Iran do not turn out to be stronger than their relationships with us. That the Shia clerics and the Ayatollah do not turn out in the same way that the clerics in Iran have turned out. That the Shia's do not decide that their religion is stronger and more important than their ties to the West and with us. That the 2.25 million refugees will someday return home, and find that those homes are still available and still exist. That the Shia's can overcome 1400 years of religious schism with the Sunni's.

It's for all of the above and more that Crocker and this administration cannot speak with any certainity of the future - other than to say that if we give them some security - something positive should happen - and hopefully it will be in our interest. As I said - a lot of faith.

Warren Smalls
First, great name calling. When one is unable to provide substance or fact try a little name calling.

Second, Moveon's ad runs prior to Petraeus (oh sorry, Betrayus) before a word has come out of the general's mouth. Such open minds - right up your alley.

Third, "No wonder the USA looks ridiculous in the world's eyes these days" - for whom are you speaking?

Did I mention great name calling? And your military service consisted of what? No Latin American fruit, just fruit?

Shut-up and hear him speak
I am so sick of the politics wrapped around what we should be listening to. The Democrats were so worried about Patreus that they preempted his speech with constant rhetoric about the Iraq war's failings. I believe that the correct response from the Republicans should be shut-up and listen to him speak. Do I think that the Moveon.org ad was disgraceful? Without a doubt, however it's their ad they can do what they want (within legal limits of course). The way I see it Conservatives have a couple of options: 1. Whine and complain about how mean Moveon.org is, or 2. fight back. Force politicians and presidential candidates on that side of the aisle to take positions now, and stick their feet in their mouths and then focus all efforts on winning in Iraq so that when the chickens come home to roost the democrats will be left wallowing in their own filth and disgraceful mud slinging ads. So, Enough of this name calling and trying to find who is the most blameworthy, I want to focus on making sure that when we win, all you liberals are left twisting in the wind...and I will laugh.

Shawn
Tell me. What is a win and how do we get there. We have been told for four plus years that we are winning but obviously you do not think we are either. To be truthful, I don't think that that can be anything we typically call a win. But convince me otherwise if you can.


Keep in mind that we also have to maintain good relations with the remainder of the Middle East and the world.

I hear no plan from the administration for how we can conclude this with a minimum of damage. It is also the responsibility of the Congress on behalf of the American people to make sure that the policy is coherent and that lives and money are not just wasted. Maybe they are not doing a very good job and maybe they do talk too much but the administration's conduct of the war to this point has been disgraceful. Someone has to be agressive in raising questions.

MoveOn.org And the Democratic Senators
Well I'm going to say it!!!!!
TREASON - This word imports a betraying, treachery, or breach of allegiance.

The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

General Petraeus has served this country for over 35 years with honor, distinction, and integrity.

By God it fits, MoveOn.org And the Democratic Senators. SOB: Ray Charles can see that. What in the cat hair are we going to do about it???
That's the way I see this.
http://rms941-totallyconservative.blogspot.com/
http://www.rms941.com

RMS941
Maybe we could subpoena Osama bin Laden (or his video tapes) as corroborating evidence that the stand of the Democrats is what he wants. Does that constitute aiding and comforting the enemy?

I think so.

the Shia
That the Shia's do not decide that their religion is stronger and more important than their ties to the West and with us.

What else would you expect them to decide. Would you risk losing your immortal soul to be friendly with the infidels. Remember these people, or a substantial portion of them, really believe they are acting on the will of God.

Not
"Maybe we could subpoena Osama bin Laden (or his video tapes) as corroborating evidence that the stand of the Democrats is what he wants. Does that constitute aiding and comforting the enemy?"

I've listed in these threads several terrorism experts who have writings of AQ that pointed say they want us in Iraq. Saddam was their enemy and our removing him allowed them a failed state, something all terrorist cockroaches love. They are hoping and praying we do the same to Iran!

she WANTS to BE Commander in Chief ???

Imagine: HILLARY who slandered a Respected
"COMANDING" General, to the WORLD expects
to become "COMMANDER IN CHIEF" !!

SHE supported and endorse and funded by
"MOVE ON" who assaulted, slandered, slimed
a COMMANDING GENERAL

SHE who's supporters, handlers, comrades in
the SENATE and CONGRESS, slander, slimed,
assaulted our entire MILITARY over and over
and NOW a RESPECTED "COMANDING" General

SHE EXPECTS to become "COMMANDER IN CHIEF"

HOW about "SHE HANGS"

Title 18 of the U.S. Code defines "treason" as follows: "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death". Someone agreeing with and providing words that encourage and support the goals of our enemy is a traitor.

Under the legal definition of treason there are grounds to indict virtually the entire Democratic leadership of the United States of America and most of the allegedly "free press".


B2slim writes:
BOY !!! That works for me: lmao
How about this 1.
Bleeding hart Liberal's. I think you would go so far as to have your key note speaker at the 2008 Democrat National Convention none other then Osama bin Laden or you have bin-laden's boy’s mowing your lawns.
and
The new Democrat slogan: Martyrdom or Bust (rrotf- lmao)
You got to some fun with the lib's
http://rms941-totallyconservative.blogspot.com/
http://www.rms941.com

partisanship and the War on Terror
"Al-Qaida's jihadists plotted a multigenerational war. That means we must fight a multi-administration war, which means bridging the whipsaw of the U.S. political cycle. ... The Bush administration has not prepared the nation for that"

If the Bush Administration wanted to prepare the nation for that, they should NOT have invaded Iraq.

The liberals and 90% of the Democrats will NEVER buy into the notion that the Iraq War was worth fighting. Except for die-hard conservatives, the polls clearly show that most of the American public has made its judgment that invading Iraq was a mistake.

If you want a bipartisan foreign policy, you have to be prepared to compromise with the opposition party and accept at least some of their concerns and reservations. The idea that Bush and a few neo-conservatives can formulate the whole strategy for the War on Terror all by themselves and then have the entire nation, from liberals to paleo-conservatives like Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul, all embrace it is just silly.

Bush could not have a foreign policy of "My way or the highway" and ever expect it to be bipartisan.

for RMS941
RMS941 writes: "By God it fits, MoveOn.org And the Democratic Senators."

If Bush (or YOU) wanted the Democrats to sign up to the War on Terror and agree to support it, then you needed to involve them in the decision-making process to begin with.

You CANNOT expect the GOP to define the entire strategy for the War on Terror, freeze the Democrats out of the decision making process, totally ignore anything the Democrats suggested or proposed, override their concerns about invading Iraq, and then AFTER that go back to the Democrats and say "Now you sign up to OUR strategy for the War on Terror or else." Why should they? Bush does not COMMAND any civilians, Democrat or Republican. Only the military answers to him.

This has been the attitude of you conservatives all the way along: Run the War on Terror EXACTLY as you see fit, ignore the Democrats and the Europeans and the U.N. and everybody else. And then, if and when you lose popular support or the war gets tough, you go running back to them for help!

You conservatives have to bite the bullet: ACCEPT that the GOP is NOT going to be running the country for the next 100 years, ACCEPT that just maybe the Democrats may win an election or two, and MAKE A DEAL with them in advance to get them to sign up to the War on Terror should the American people entrust them with it. And that deal will REQUIRE you to COMPROMISE with them, not ORDER them around like they're buck privates in your personal army.

B2
The c-i-c is George Bush and he should never have put the onus of our nations course of action upon a general's shoulders. People would have put FDR in an insane asylum and thrown away the key if he had let Patton decide our course of action and had let him attack Russia. Bush is the problem and don't let these neocons con you out of your democracy.

SteveL Post
Agree or disagree with President Bush’s policies in Iraq; that was ont what I was talking about. Please re-read. But that's Ok lol

Yes there has got to be some degree of maturity, some level of statesmanship, some—dare we say it?—amount of patriotism coming from the leadership of the Democratic party.But as it is to day I can not see or find it.I wish It would come about but I will not live that long. lmao

RM
Of the 535 members of congress, who has more children in this war? What speaks louder, action or words? Are you satisfied that Bush said he and his neocons have suffered horrible because they saw terrible images of war on Fox News, and in the mean time gave the rich 3 big tax cuts?

treason
The Constitution says, Article I, Section 6: "for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place." In other words you can't penalize legislators for disagreeing with government policy. It's part of their job. This isn't like Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Anyway, precisely who is the enemy? Al qaeda, the Baathists, the Sunnis, the Shia, Moslems in general, or just Democrats.

PS: As for patriotism, Mark Twain said that a patriot supports his country all the time and its government went it deserves it.

Taft
Well Sir. we all have children there. They are there because they ------- what? YES that's right Key word here Folunteered just like my son.
That's action in my book. and to top it off I'm rich and needed the big tax cut.Hell that life.
That how we keep growing our company's and making JOB'S!!!!!
1 more shot.
Bleeding hart Liberal's. I think you would go so far as to have your key note speaker at the 2008 Democrat National Convention none other then Osama bin Laden or you have bin-laden's boy’s mowing your lawns.
and
The new Democrat slogan: Martyrdom or Bust (rrotf- lmao)
You got to some fun with the lib's
Hey All come by and say HI
http://rms941-totallyconservative.blogspot.com/
http://www.rms941.com

Smearing a great American
General Petraeus belives in Duty, Honor, Country. Democrats are calling him a liar. All Americans should be outraged that a dedicated servant of the American people has to have his integity denied by those who will do and say anything to win elections in 2008.

MoveOn.org, the attack hate group of the Democrat party needs to apologize to Petraeus and the American people.

RM
I'm talking about the leaders sacrificing. I would be proud of my son for enlisting too, and I wish him well. I'm afraid I don't get the rest of your post. You think its just one of life's little coincidences Bin Laden just happens to comes along with another video at the key points in Bush's war? You know Bush said he doesn't care about bin laden? We can expect another installment of Bin Laden Bush stumping programming in 2008, just before the elections, especially since Bush could care less if we caught him. Even Fred says hes not important. Republicans, silly rabbits.

JPH
I keep hearing that the way this war has been handled has been disgraceful. Could you please make a comparison for me as to another war of this scale and poing out to me the differences in the way it was handled and why it was better handled? The answer is you can't. This is precisely what I am tired of hearing about while at the same time relishing in the fact that you will be eating these words once we win. By the way just because we haven't won yet, doesn't mean we are losing. It is about us making significant strides in defeating the terrorists, and working towards stabilizing a region. Do you not want us to do this? The constant political pressure and ridiculous statements that seem to ooze out of liberal politician's mouths only fuel the terrorists belief that they can win. Furthermore, do you honestly think that we have to be completely happy with the way an administration handles a war everytime? You are so naiive, and you've been brainwashed into believing that because bad things happen in wars, we shouldn't be involved and its not worth being a part of. You parrot the liberal lines spouting buzz words like minimum damage and believing you stand for a cause that is not even tangible to you. It's an idea, an emotion that war is bad. War is bad, its hell, but the idea that we will be better off, or in "peace" without it is ridiculous and also naiive. Saddam butchered shiites, there was a genocide in cambodia, and there is probably one going on in Darfur. Is this peace? No. And why does this happen? It's because bad things happen when good men do nothing. That's MLK Jr. I'm not sure how the next few years will turn out in Iraq, but I can tell you with a large measure of certainty that the region would be no better off had we done nothing. Your idea probably was we should stay out, maybe the problem will fix itself. Wrong. Wrong. Problems don't fix themselves. Also, no one can convince you that we can win. What's the point in me trying?

bro
I think what the dems are trying to do is look at the whole picture. Petraeus, is a general, who one couldn't do better to have in understanding and implementing strategy, but does he see the political and world view that is needed? The fact that Bush hides behind a general he picked, and fired those who disagreed with him, is unbecoming a c-i-c. Like I said before, Pattons of our wars are heroes and great but they do not make political decisions thats the president and congresses job.

Taft
I don't want him to understand the political side of this. He doesn't serve one political side. This is one of the places where I think the democrats and republicans differ. What is with the kneejerk reaction to the military for dems? Just because he's a general and he happens to have good news automatically he is the President's patsy? A co-conspirator? I don't really see this war as a political thing. I see it as value driven. Do you think Patton would have kept a leader in place that he didn't believe could do the job? Or one who had doubts about pushing on through Africa? A leader who he thought didn't have the stomach for it, especially one who publicly expressed doubts? I think not.I'm inclined to believe Patton would have shot him (sarcastic). My point is that just because a General was picked over others doesn't mean that it's because he finally found a general that will tell the people we can do it when we can't, or to in some way trick the people into it. That's ridiculous. The dems are the only ones with a political axe to grind, and they'll jump at anything that will make a good sound bite. That's fine, but when they make assumptions about the army, and a General as distinguished as Petraeous, I think they are making a grave mistake.

Taft
Unless you have another reason how Petraeus is some sort of patsy. I'm all ears, but the fact that he was picked over others, doesn't cut it as a reasonable argument. Also, since when is he "hiding behind" Petraeus? I would say he's standing with him. For a general you think is merely a patsy for the president, apparently hes big enough to hide behind. Flawed logic I say, your arguments and empty rhetoric don't hold water.

Open Statement
I have a question: Do any of us honestly believe that what we say here will change any minds? I don't. So, what do we get out of these combative comments that go back and forth and usually end up in name calling? I'm not so sure we get anything. I guess we are all just looking for a fight. Anyone disagree?

Taft, you're partiakky right
Wednesday, September, 12, 2007 8:30 PM
Taft writes:
"B2
The c-i-c is George Bush and he should never have put the onus of our nations course of action upon a general's shoulders."


The President may be the Commander In Chief, but doesn't know all there is to know about what's going on on the front lines in the war or in any of the other situations that he oversees as part of his job.
That is why he has advisors. In this case the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Secretaries of each branch of the service.
Then there's the commanders like Gen. Petraeus, that are actually on the battlefield.
THEY KNOW first hand what's happening in each of their respective fields.

It is their job to advise him about what is going on and from their information he makes his decisions and delegates to them, like any coporate leader, what he wants done according to THEIR best discression, and they carry out his orders.

Doing it your way, allowing politicians who are far removed from the scene of action to make the iimportant decisions without knowing what needs to be done is one of the main things that caused us to lose in Vietnam.
The president is doing it the proper way to have Gen. Petraeus inform him of the situation on the ground so that HE, in turn, will make WISE decisions(not always though) as to how to proceed.

CharlesS
I respect your views, and you make a good case. I think the dems have though some reasons to believe that things aren't really going as well as some others think. ABC news just did a remarkable poll that had a small bit of good news concerning Anbar, but some other very bad news, such as the great number of Iraqis who now think things have gotten worse in Iraq since the surge. Also, I think the generals will agree, our arming Maiki's enemies, and Saddams former buddies, just may not turn out too well. Time will tell. I for one, and I think most dems, would like to see the violence stop in Iraq and a normal, for the ME anyway, form of government come to Iraq. Move-on goofed big time and , secretly, I bet Rove is happy.

Shawn,

Thanks for your comments, wish I had time to debate w/you more. Does this debatting/argueing help anything? One can only try and hope.

Taft
Yea, sometimes I have to catch myself when I feel I'm getting to deep into these things though. Sometimes I lose composure, and I apologize for that. I still don't know if this does anything for us, but one thing I do know is, I probably still won't be able to tear myself away from it. See ya around.

That's the biggest part of the problem
Thursday, September, 13, 2007 12:12 AM
TAFT writes:
CharlesS
I respect your views, and you make a good case. I think the dems have though some reasons to believe that things aren't really going as well as some others think. ABC news just did a remarkable poll that had a small bit of good news concerning Anbar, but some other very bad news, such as the great number of Iraqis who now think things have gotten worse in Iraq since the surge. Also, I think the generals will agree, our arming Maiki's enemies, and Saddams former buddies, just may not turn out too well. Time will tell. I for one, and I think most dems, would like to see the violence stop in Iraq and a normal, for the ME anyway, form of government come to Iraq. Move-on goofed big time and , secretly, I bet Rove is happy.

Taft,
The Democrats don't think that things aren't going so well. they WANT things to go badly. They want us to lose and come home, or come home before the job is done. So that they can falsely claim that they ended the war in hopes of taking the White House next year.
That's ALL they care about. They don't give a ratsass about our troops or what will happen if we lose or withdraw too soon.
And the media is no better because they're on the Democrats side. In case you haven't noticed the MSM had never told the whole story of how the war is going. All they tell us is the bad news. And the "poll" ABC News did is as phony as their concern for the safety of our troops. They rig them to get the answers they want.
That and send morons like Robert to infi;trate conservative web sites and give their lying talking points hoping to trcik us into supporting their sorry as*es.

Dems
"Dems want things to go badly."

Tht is a slap in the face to the thousands of dem soldiers in our service and one totally unproven. Dems want staight answers and acounability and reason and they get this b.s. traitor c*ap instead. MSM haven't told the whole story? More b.s. The ABC news poll was done thoroughly and very professionally.

Cherry Picking Facts?
Listening to Petraeus and Crocker this week I heard Al Qaeda this, Al Qaeda that, Al Qaeda will establish terrorist training camps if we leave , Al Qaeda's influence will spread to all the other nations in the region, Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda, and Al Qaeda.

How many Al Qaeda terrorists did they say have been killed or captured since the "SURGE" began? They could not recall!
How many Al Qaeda terrorists did they say are still in Iraq? They do not have a current estimate!
How long did they say will it take to kill or capture the remaining Al Qaeda in Iraq? They will get to Congress in March 2008 with and Estimate!
How long did they say will it take to "WIN" the WAR? We can only see 4 - 6 months into the future and we will not have won by then. We will give you a update in March 2008.
Did General Petraeus say the War in Iraq was making us safer here in the homeland? He said: " I'm not sure it is making America safer."

Note: The estimates of the size of Al Qaeda in Iraq according the Brookings Institution Iraq Index was less than 10 in January 2003, about 3000 in July 2006, and about 5000 in July 2007. The Reuters factbox talley indicates we have killed less than 200 since Jan. 2007.
The size of the Iraq Security Force is over 350,000 and over 200,000 of them can operate with minimal or no US Troop Support.What will they be doing if we draw down to a typical peacekeeping force of 45,000 troops?

Jim Frego
Grants Pass, OR

What a way to fight a war
Could you please make a comparison for me as to another war of this scale and point out to me the differences in the way it was handled and why it was better handled?

Well how about the American Civil War. It begins with the firing on Fort Sumter on April 12, 1861. After 27 months, it reaches the decisive victories at Gettysburg and Vicksburg. On April 9, 1865, Lee surrenders to Grant, and on April 26, 1865, Joe Johnston surrenders to Sherman. In November 1865, 4.5 years after the war had begun, the cruiser Shenandoah becomes the last armed Confederate unit to surrender.

In contrast this mess in Iraq has gone on for 4.5 years, and there is no end in sight. It is as if Grant were besieging Vicksburg into 1866. It is taking longer for a for a superpower to beat a rag-tag band of insurgents than it did to beat the Confederacy. (Of course the two wars aren't on the same scale. The Civil War was much, much bigger.) The difference: Lincoln was a great leader, and George Bush is incompetent.

Liberals want U.S. to lose war
LIBERALS AND WAR SUCCESS:

IT’S SORT OF LIKE TRYING TO SQUEEZE TOOTHPASTE BACK INTO THE TUBE—IT NEVER WORKS



BY LISA RICHARDS

September 13, 2007



I love how Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton want to know the exact date of the pull-out in Iraq. I think Hillary should refrain from using phrases like pull-out, especially with a husband who’s an expert on the subject. And Barack Obama who has about as much experience in anything governmental as Paris Hilton on a three-day drunk trying tell Americans how not to drink and drive, asked questions so absurd he actually made Ted Kennedy appear sober; if that’s possible.



If the questions had been directed at the fired-by Bill Clinton General Wesley Clarke, you can be sure Harry Reid would have been fawning with drool over the bad-tempered liberal who screwed up a Clinton war so bad even Clinton had to ignore the blue-dress whore under the desk to take time out to issue a pink slip to the General the Clinton’s would later go on to endorse as a presidential candidate.



Petreaus is under direct order from Bush and not a liberal democrat, and the past three days of grand-standing do-nothing-but-whine was proof liberals can’t stand any bit of success Bush is having in Iraq. Liberals want Iraq to fail. They want Muslim terrorists to slaughter our troops like pigs. The want Sheryl Crowe sitting atop an enemy tank posing for photos ala’ Jane Fonda. Hell, if they can get Fonda to do a retake of her Hanoi hoopla, liberals would be in propaganda heaven...

For rest of column, visit my blog



copyright 2007 Lisa Richards

http://www.lisa-richards.com

E-Mail Contact: lisa-richards@lisa-richards.com

Dear Ms Richards,
It is probable that we will have a Democratic president in 2009. Then I would fully the conservative shoe on the other foot.

I have attached a selection of quotes from when Clinton 42 was committing troops to Bosnia:

"[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home."
---Sen Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
---Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."
---Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . . I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."
---Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

"The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W Bush (R-TX)


PS: The enemy, whoever they might be at the moment, doesn't have tanks.


Dear Ms Richards,
It is probable that we will have a Democratic president in 2009. Then I would fully expect to see the conservative shoe on the other foot.

I have attached of quotes from when Clinton 42 was committing troops to Bosnia:

"You can support the troops but not the president."
---Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years."
---Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

"[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
---Sen Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."
---Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush

"The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W Bush (R-TX)


PS: The enemy, whoever they might be at the moment, doesn't have tanks.

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