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Friday, September 14, 2007
Ashley Herzog :: Townhall.com Columnist
Failing to Live Up to Left-Wing Ideals
by Ashley Herzog
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It looks as if the media will have to find another pretentious intellectual to refer to as “the conscience of the American theater” (according to The Boston Globe), “the moralist of the American theater” (The New York Times), and, most gratuitously, “the moralist of the past American century” (The Denver Post). In fact, given their track record, elitist intellectuals should probably refrain from using the word “moralist” altogether.

Those words were written about Arthur Miller, the playwright who became famous by penning dreary plays about America’s alleged failures. Miller’s pompous liberalism has been forced upon high school and college students ever since he wrote Death of a Salesman in 1949. Although most people immediately find his writing to be both pretentious and mind-numbingly boring, Miller spent most of his career denigrating capitalism and defending communists at home and abroad. So, naturally, Miller’s plays are always prefaced by fawning praise for his courage and moral insight. According to fellow playwright Edward Albee, Miller “held up a mirror to society and said, ‘This is how you behave.’”

But now it appears that communist sympathizer Miller wasn’t quite the humanitarian the cultural elites claim he was. This month’s issue of Vanity Fair includes an investigative piece on Miller’s “secret son” – a boy born with Down’s syndrome whom Miller “deleted from his life.” According to the article, Miller hid his son Daniel’s existence for forty years, did not mention him in his memoirs, and didn’t even bother to leave him a piece of his immense fortune when he died in 2005.

In fact, Miller’s friends say he had no contact with Daniel since he dumped him in an overcrowded mental institution at birth (the facility was later sued over its poor conditions). He allegedly referred to his son as a “mongoloid.” Miller’s wife wanted to keep the baby, but he refused. As Thomas Lifson wrote in the American Thinker, “[Miller] ripped apart a child and mother…all because he must have been embarrassed that his son wasn't capable of being the intellectual he wanted to pretend to be himself.”

I don’t understand why everyone is so shocked. Miller belongs to a long tradition of left-wing “humanitarians” who have wagged their fingers at the unenlightened common people, scolding them for their support of capitalism and their lack of concern for the downtrodden – and yet couldn’t manage to stop using and abusing everyone around them.

Philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau, whose theory of the general will was a precursor to modern socialism, believed that private ownership of property was selfish and destructive to the collective state. As historian Paul Johnson wrote in his book Intellectuals, Rousseau “was the first intellectual systematically to exploit the guilt of the privileged.”

So how did Rousseau conduct his personal life? After repeatedly borrowing money from his parents, he never repaid them and allowed his foster mother to die of malnutrition. He kept a peasant girl as his mistress, exploited her sexually, and forced her to abandon all five of their children at birth. He didn’t let her name the babies, and, as Johnson noted, “it is unlikely that any of them survived long.”

Karl Marx, author of The Communist Manifesto, wrote about the oppression of the working class – a subject he knew nothing about since he refused to work, keeping his wife and children destitute. He kept a young girl as his household slave, sexually abused her, and forced her to send their son to a foster home. If that weren’t enough, Marx also made his family’s life distinctly unpleasant by refusing to bathe.

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a correlation between radical socialist views and heinous personal conduct?

In fact, from the seventeenth century forward, it’s difficult to find a prominent leftist intellectual who wasn’t manipulative, abusive, selfish, or violent – including Leo Tolstoy, Ernest Hemingway, Bertrand Russell and Jean-Paul Sartre. That reality is covered in-depth in Paul Johnson’s Intellectuals, originally published in 1988 but updated in May 2007. Maybe the next version will include a chapter on Arthur Miller and his abandoned son.

As Phyllis Schlafly noted in a column on the book, these men were not irrelevant left-wing scolds. They were influential writers and philosophers “who arrogantly presumed to diagnose the ills of society…and to tell mankind how we should all live our lives and how society and the economy should be structured.”

From now on, before textbooks and college courses demand that we admire these intellectuals’ unique brilliance and follow their dictates for humanity, how about a few side notes on how they treated actual humans?

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About The Author
Ashley Herzog is a Townhall columnist and the author of Feminism vs. Women.

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Miller TIme
While Arthur Miller's treatment of his son was, in point of fact, abominable, your slander that "Miller spent most of his career denigrating capitalism and defending communists at home and abroad" is ridiculous. It is refuted quickly enough by the fact that as head of Internatonal PEN for four years, he constantly locked antlers with Soviet and Eastern European officialdom. In particular, his support of Charter 77 (you HAVE heard of them, Ms. Herzog? The Czech human rights group fighting under communist rule for years?) is of note. His moving and uncompromising essay on their behalf can read as the introduction to the paperback edition of "Since the Prague Spring : the Continuing Struggle for Human Rights in Czechoslovakia" edited by Hans-Peter Riese.

He also protested for years the Cuban government's jailing and silencing of writers and dissidents.

Were you even AWARE of these facts, Ms. Herzog?

As to his quality as a dramatist, I do find some common ground with you. I regard him as Raymond Chandler regarded English novelists:

"The English might not always be the best writers in the world, but they are incomparably the best dull writers."

I await any response you can find time to make.

Liberals & Lefties Need A Reality Check
After reading most of the postings on this article and being a poitical science junkie, having read most if not all major theoretical politically based writings, I must say the following:
It is NOT easy for a college student to slay liberal icons and get away scot-free. Ashley is more forthright than most politicians we know, and from the ire written about her article I see that liberals will continue to relive the same history - because they do not LEARN from it. You see, what most people of sustance know is that political theories are great to read, but few if any succeed. Just look at history, if you dare. Once again, the liberals might try taking their heads out of their ... books. But I doubt it.

savage
You:Many if not most of the left wingers have sincere good intentions. Inmy opinion they are mistaken and to the extent they weaken our determination to defend our way of life, they are dangerous. During WWII we punished people like this. Was that wrong? In some cases, doubtless a yes. You tell me.
______________________________
One might argue in the midst of war, one might find justification for suppression of civil liberties; but that is acadamic; we were not in the midst of a war; it was the COLD war; we did not have to worry about sabotage.

And even in WWII, we rounded up people more on nationality than what they thought. What we are going thru now is much worse; the universities are filled with professors who it might be argued are doing much more damage to the morale of this country than ever did these guys; the whole multicultualism business are weakening patrotism it could be argued.

In hindsight, these characters do not seem a threat.

Len
Its a matter of degree, Len. I don't seriously disagree with you because we are merely discussing where to draw a line. The Rosenbergs were on the KGB payroll, along with many others who never paid any price. They passed secrets and paid with their lives. What is the correct disposition for people who helped them, or supported them, or merely agreed that they were doing the right thing? What would be justice for Hanoi Jane? Trumbo was an America Basher, biting the hand that fed him. Exile seems pretty reasonable to me. Many if not most of the left wingers have sincere good intentions. Inmy opinion they are mistaken and to the extent they weaken our determination to defend our way of life, they are dangerous. During WWII we punished people like this. Was that wrong? In some cases, doubtless a yes. You tell me.

savage and pilgrim
I am not too young. I lived through that period. But your posts do not address my point that these guys were not spies such as Alger Hiss or the Rosenbergs. They were hounded because of their thoughts, past and present. Many had already left the communist party. These guys were no threat to the country. The Henry Wallace campaign for the presidency in 1948 gathered few votes. They were not punished for any seditious behavior but for the thoughts and assosications. We had a similar period during John Adams administration under the alien and sedition acts in which followers of Jefferson were arrested and the aftermath of WW 1. One could argue that people like Ted Kennedy, Ron Paul, the NYTIMES are a greater threat to our national security in their oppostion to the war and some who even opposed going to Afghan than these characters ever were.

Lilly - A red letter day!
*** "These folks all seem to want a world without rules: "If it feels good, do it." What I find laughable is that these

champions of "the world [being] without form, and void" are the conservatives. I am the one here arguing for rules and

form and shape and clear direction---and I am the liberal." ***

Lilly,

This is a red letter day! You are the very first person to include me in with the "If it feels good, do it" crowd. I'm not holding my breath that it will ever happen again.

I find it interesting that you are concerned about conservatives seeming to "want a world without rules". Conservatives have always been for rules, but not necessarily _governmental_ rules. Don't forget that society is not the government, and the government is not society.

We agree that good English skills are important. Notice the smiley face?

We also agree that elements of the status quo are beneficial. We're making progress! :-)

Miller, The Crcible etc...
I teach The Crucible at the start of the school year, and my students at the end of the year view a film version of Death of a Salesman. Miller, as a person we look at in brief.

Most of today's high school students know so little about the political world of the 40s, 50s, 60s, etc., that they find little interest in the subject of Communism To too many, if it's not on TV or on an IPod it's just plain "old." Too many find too much in school today boring.

And while there are some in my class who find The Crucible a bore too, they are among the group mentioned above and most will not venture deeper than the surface of most stories.

Miller was not a saint; few people are today or were in his day, and there are few saints, if any, in his play.

I am thinking about letting my students read Herzog's article and let them weight the merits of Miller's actions on their own. After all, if Miller is allowed to judge should not his readers be able to make judgments about him too?

Len
You are obviously too young to remember the horror and fear of the early cold war, in the years when Russia suddenly had the Abomb, thanks to traitors, when children were trained in airraid drills, and i was spending my time wth an anti-aircraft missile battery defending Pittsburgh, for crying out loud. Communist sympathizers and spies were not harmless. They were part of a very serious threat to our survival. Nothing like the threat now!!!!!!??? History didn't start at your birth.

Well Ok again, Pilgrim
and from that standpoint you did a good job. But Lilly is far from obtuse. You name a subject and i can give you her response quite often. I pretty much quit with her stuff months ago, but knee jerk liberals are as predictable as American communists in the late '30's. I can't imagine anyone who has been here very long not knowing exactly where she stands on nearly everything. Just think PC and there you are.

lilly, you do assume too much
First off, I do not dislike The Crucible. I like John Proctor very much. I also have great respect for my co-teacher, and I like her very much. We have a difference of opinion on politics, that does not make me dislike her at all.

Possibly you have your own prejudices that you bring to this debate. Maybe you treat those who disagree with you disrespectfully--at the very least you say rude things and treat them as intellectually inferior to you as you have exhibited here time after time.

If you like to think that all of your students hung on your every word, were interested in everything you taught because you were such a great teacher...you are delusional or lying to yourself.

Some students enjoy The Crucible, but the majority do not, and I have talked to other teachers who teach it and they find the same thing. Do you think that all on this thread who disliked it had bad teachers? I think people have opinions about all kinds of works, and just because they do not jive with my own does not make them inferior to my opinions.

OK, Len but
how about this perspective? Often the left dismissed and ridiculed the threat of communism, characterizing America, especially those intent on opposing communism, as the real enemy of humanity and a threat to peace all in the name of greed and profit.

They misrepresented the real threat. For instance, look at that disingenuous piece of garbage, The Russia House. In it, Le Carre portrayed Russia as a paper tiger, with no real military capability and the CIA willing to suppress the information from a Soviet traitor who claimed the Soviet Union was more helpless than they thought, all because the US needed to lie about Russia's ability in order to profit the arms industry.

Hollywood made a movie about it, seeking to further impact public opinion. After the collapse, it was revealed that their nuclear capability, especially the mobile offensive capability on rails was drastically underestimated by America. They not only had what we thought they had, they had more, especially in Europe.

First and foremost, their allegiance is to their religion, politics; their theology, leftism; and their god, government.

who was right
Re: Revealing past friends who were communists or refusing to do so. I have mixed feelings. Betraying a friend is always uncomfortable. But if that friend is a theat to the country, it must be done.

My ambivlance is that characters such as Dalton were no threat to this country because of their sympathy for the Soviet Union and making excuses for such. There was no threat of revolution of anything like we face now from moslem cells planning violence.

So, I think both sides have a moral argument. And neither one is better than the other. They are both rational and defensible. And there is no need to feel superior as to condemn anyone for following one's conscience.

Savage, I hear you
But, this wasn't for Lilly. Lilly's mind is closed. She's so convinced of her own intellectual and moral superiority as to be unteachable.

My purpose was to flesh out, for the audience, exactly what Lilly is and what she represents, especially from the education establishment.

I believe this end was achieved.


More rhetorical fallacies from Lilly
You assume the only way to learn patience and sharing is from children in government schools. My children are with their real peers. Children who don't have sex, do drugs and commit violence upon each other.

You assume consideration and respect is inherent in "multiculturalism"; that simply being differently cultured inherently commands respect. This would be false. Respect is earned, not a birthright of being from a politically correct leftist authorized victim class.

You assign an ideology to your example for the express purpose of constructing a bigoted straw man. The real point is people are given a CHOICE. Parents CHOOSE the school for their children and this brings market forces to bear; there is power in the marketplace. You would know this if you had read Hoxby like I told you to.

You assume that history is automatically of a liberal interpretation and that the inclusion of conservative ideas is "rewriting history." This tells me exactly what kind of teacher you are and you serve as an EXCELLENT example of why no thinking person should allow their children to be infected by your arrogant, bigoted and elitist mindset.

Which brings us to your other straw man assumption about certain instruments being snobbish. That's your fallacious claim, not mine.

What is snobbish is your elitist and deceitful misinterpretations and mischaracterizations of a system you clearly know nothing about and are ideologically opposed to examining in any honest and comprehensive way.

To Savage
1) You misspelled "non sequitur". 2) This thread emanates from an article presenting the idea that Arthur Miller deserves our condemnation because he essentially disowned his disabled child and because he was "a Communist sympathizer". It also claims that his work is unworthy, a claim with which some posters have agreed. Since the article blurs judging art from judging the artist, a discussion developed about whether literature, or any form of art, can be fairly judged by the personal life of its creator, and because townhall is mostly inhabited by conservatives, it was then a short step to the worthiness of teaching material developed by a liberal such as Miller.

How is that off-topic? In any case, townhall threads commonly meander, and not infrequently posters insert their favorite hobby-horse (usually abortion, guns, illegal immigration, or Jesus Christ) in a way that is totally irrelevant to the original topic or even to the theme of the thread. And yet I don't recall ever seeing one poster attack another for bringing up the subject of abortion in ANY context, but this ploy against a liberal poster is often used ("there goes that stupid lying liberal again, too dumb to stay on the subject").

OK, Pilgrim
You duked it out. Get anywhere? See any progress? Note any attempts to see your point of view, deal with your arguments or even stick to the subject? The only possible profit is an enhanced familiarity with non-sequitors. As you wash off the results of your futile pig/puddle exercise, remember the pig enjoyed it.

To Pilgrim
I hear your personal opinion, which may well be shared by many of your friends. However, I do not believe that the majority of parents would choose an individual tutorial for their children over putting them in school with other children. Children learn many useful things from a group experience, two of these being patience and sharing. They also learn that the world is bigger than their family and neighborhood and that different people also deserve consideration and respect.

Thank you, I do know something about private schools since for junior and senior high school I attended one. Maybe you are referring to "Christian academies" with which I have no personal experience.

And I can't wait to see what happens when you-all conservatives manage to get the free vouchered tuition to private schools that you want. Do you think that the administration of exclusive private schools is going to welcome parents who don't want evolutionary biology taught, who expect to rewrite American history in conservative terms, who object to teaching any literature written by a homosexual author or with homosexual characters, and who want Jesus brought into every lesson? Do try this at Country Day Prep and let us all know what happens. I remember a few years ago a black mother from public housing tried to get the word "niggardly" removed from a vocabulary list in a predominantly white school she'd managed to get her kid into; she insisted the word was racist, and didn't desist even when the meaning of the word was explained to her. Something like that.

Pilgrim, if your child studies violin or piano, do you outlaw him learning all classical music because it is "elitist" and "snobbish"?

McCarthy and Me
Just now doing some housework I was turning over in my mind things I have been reading lately on townhall, and I thought of the opinion that McCarthyism was not unreasonable---that this is just a liberal myth. Then I remembered my own personal experience with the McCarthy days, and although my experience was peripheral, I think it still counts so I am going to describe it here.

In the 1950's my husband was in graduate school and we lived in married students' housing at a major university. As our neighbors finished their degrees and applied for jobs, at that time security clearance was often required. When it was, two FBI men would turn up at the doors of the applicants' neighbors and interview them regarding the applicant. I personally fielded perhaps a dozen such visits. Among the questions asked were always these two: 1) In your opinion, is this person loyal to the United States? 2) Have you ever seen any odd-looking person going into his apartment?

Now, folks, let me appeal to your common sense. As for Question # 1, how could I possibly know that? In every case I would know the man as the husband of somebody I sat in the Tot-Lot with and exchanged babysitting with; as some little kid's daddy with whom I had had little, if any, actual contact (graduate students tend to be very busy). The FBI was relying on information from a highly dubious source. Question #2 is worse. Many people around a university campus are "odd-looking", sometimes because they don't have money to look any better, sometimes because their minds are on other things (like study, work, and trying to make ends meet). And even if I had seen some bearded person with his eyes rolling around like The Mad Scientist in cartoons going into my neighbor's place, this would not be any sort of proof that he was advocating the overthrow of the United States government. Again, the FBI was ready to jump to conclusions based on an ill-informed and subjective opinion.

Lilly, you are the master
at ignoring the entire premise of other people's points and trying to deflect the topic somewhere you're not getting pummeled.

Your limited knowledge of the crafting of private schools is unfortunate. The parental involvement is key. As far as your mischaracterization of what America wants in schooling, school choice is growing and the polls show people want it.

Your generalization about children being with their peers is presumptive and foolish. We've seen what peers do to each other. It's a fallacious argument. Now ask us to ignore everything we see about the negative aspects of class stratification, sexual issues and peer pressure and accept your foolish generalizations about socialization.

As far as college curriculum is concerned, try having a look at George Wythe, and it's like.

Since you absolutely insist on running at full speed from the point of the conversation, and ignoring everything I've told you, let me suggest The Virginian. There you will learn about your elitist brand of educational snobbery and the class struggle you are so completely ignorant of.

Follow that up with the third voyage of Gulliver's Travels, especially chapters four and five about the Grand Academy. It describes your model perfectly.

And finally, to illustrate how completely arrogant and dismissive of everyone else's positions, your last question was already answered in my last post. This time, read it without closing your mind around your own elitist, cast in stone perception of the only true educational model.


Renny
I am interested that you mention the World War I poets since that point of history was the dividing line between literature that glorifies and romanticizes war and literature that presents war more realistically. The traditional explanation for this is that this was the time when war became more technology-based: it's hard to romanticize choking to death on gas. Much war literature since World War I is anti-war. I can well imagine that conservatives would not be happy if anti-war poetry were taught in a high school.

I recall a wonderful poem written by a soldier in Vietnam in which he says,(I am paraphrasing): 1) When I was a kid I used to cut out cardboard soldiers and tanks from the cereal box and play war. I knew that the cut-out war was pretend and that I was real. 2) Now I am here, and that village is on fire, we set it on fire, that child is on fire, that child is screaming. 3) This war is real. 4) Therefore I must be the cut-out.

If you have a populace (like the folks on townhall) that refuses to believe that we set fire to villages and children and that such talk is just liberal lies, that populace wouldn't tolerate teaching such a poem.

So, sure, let us teach "I have a rendezvous with death/At some disputed barricade/When spring brings back blue days and fair..."---bu then we'd have to skip the last 80 years of writing.

To Pilgrim
The model you recommend, that each child's curriculum be designed individually, is applicable only to children who are either a) being homeschooled or b) are on independent study in a school or c) have private tutors. This model, obviously, does not apply to most children since mainstream American society still believes in group education (which is what your kids are going to get in those private schools you want vouchers for, by the way). This belief is upheld by what we know of child development, which is that children and adolescents profit from being with their peers.

Also, I asked you to suggest what works of literature should be studied by college students, and you failed to respond at all---or do you think that college and university students should also be homeschooled?

That said, I see that (except for some political material you recommend for my own reading) you did not mention one single work of literature. Could this be because you don't know any? Even a mother who thirty years ago criticized my teaching of Nathaniel Hawthorne because "he is too negative" did better than you---she suggested that I teach The Reader's Digest because it was "inspirational".

So, Pilgrim, if you don't know of any literature to suggest, maybe you could tell us what principles you think should underlie our choice of literature. That it support patriotism? Teach a moral lesson? Not have any bad words in it? Be the product only of an author living a morally uplifting life?

interruption
Particularly the dark tragedies: Macbeth, Hamlet, Othello, and Lear (more allusions and familiar quotes come from Hamlet than any other source ourside the Bible)

The Artuhur legend: Malory's Le Morte d'Artur, Tennyson's The Idylls of the King, and White's The Once and Future King: Arthur is attached in literature and history to all the countries of the British Isles, Denmark, Belgium and France, and Germany (into you can fold Rohin Hood and the ballad form)

The Romantics: Wordsworth, Coleridge, Byron, Shelley, and Keats, because our entire social attitude descends from literary Romanticism: feelings are all, feminism, children as separate people (before Romantics, children were small adults), education as a means of advanement, people of color and distant places as uncorrupted, superior beings (Noble Savage--French), and erotic love as the basis of all relationships (ending Western arranged marriages)

The WW I poets: Owens, Saki, TS Eliot, Brooke, Houseman, Yeats, Sassoon, Graves,

I'll name some literature
Most of Shakespeare--he addresses the most universal themes of passion, ambition, power, envy, revenge, and impotence
P

Lilly
You're working from the soviet conveyor belt education model. One size fits all. Jam everyone into a cookie cutter mold and "educate" them based on how old they are.

Not on what they're capable of. Not on what they've already learned. Not on what they're interested in. Not on what their strengths are. Not on what their goals are and the goals of their parents.

The ridiculous nature of your question, designed to try and embarrass me, revealed precisely why forcing everyone into the government education, conveyor belt model is such a dismal failure. You can't defend the government education model (for obvious reasons) so now you want me to provide you with something to attack. Instead, your challenge backfired and illuminated the shortcomings of your pre-conceived and inflexible notion of education.

I highly recommend A Thomas Jefferson Education by Oliver Van DeMille as a starter.

My wife and I would be happy to write an entire curriculum for you, but we'd have to interview your children first and find out what they're capable of.

I also recommend you review the lengthy and detailed studies of the failure of government education by Caroline Hoxby. Specifically Economics of Education and Productivity in Education. You'll find them in peer reviewed scholarly journals.

Oh, and Allan Bloom's The Closing of the American Mind. You should also seek out Michael Oakeshott.

My children are being educated to lead, not to "get a job." To know how to think, when to think, to express what they think, and to defend it.

People will only have and keep the freedoms they are educated enough to understand and discuss. It's a self-paced classical, liberal arts education. Read, question, write, discuss. One book at a time.

Here's the biggest clue I can give you. Are you ready? Here it is.

You can't educate someone else.

DeMille can tell you why.

To Pilgrim
I would be interested to hear what works of literature you think should be included in senior high school and college curricula---and why. Could you please name some works and authors, and give us your reasons for including them?

I'll reiterate as a teacher
I taught The Crucible and found the theme of a man defending his reputation and refusing to lie a worthy topic. Would that we had such an example some place today.

Current students can't identify with the fears of communism and the left's defense of it now, but if presented in conjunction with the Puritan settlement of Am. and the mystery of the real witch trials, The Crucible is not boring.

On the other hand, Miller never appeared before MacCarthy, nor did any other Hollywood type. MacCarthy investigated communist subversion in the state department. All the weeping and wailing about MacCarthy and how he ruined the film business is so much revisionist hype.

Miller and his other wealthy, privileged, art/movie types were called to testify before the House UnAmerican Activities Comm. (HUAC). HUAC never fired or blacklisted anyone. Hollywood studios and producers did that themselves.

Most of the special victims here went to Mexico or Europe where they still worked or submitted scripts through shills to CA.

So that the real people who caused loss of jobs and income never had to feel guilty, MacCarthy has shouldered the blame for decades. Now that we have the former USSR's spy files, those people Mac. accused were for the most part actually communists.


Rightmindedmom

Thanks for the clarification on Senate committee & HUAC.

Libs change the subject...again
You can always tell when a conservative has hit a bullseye with a column or a post at TH. All the lib posters try to change the subject.

Turn Left challenges us on whether we've read the books these 'intellectuals' have written, which is not the point of the column. The point is whether we should take the preachings of these guys to heart when they treated their own parents, wives, and children so badly. Turn Left reminds me of a frat brother who argued that we should not depose Saddam because he had written some good children's books.

And then we have driveby who wants to redirect the discussion to "witch hunts" and incorrectly includes the Clinton impeachment as such. The topic, driveby, is not "mass hysteria" or "witch hunts". The topic is the questionable credibility of authors/philosophers who were gutteral beasts with those they should have cared for the most.

On the flip side, con posters have caught the point nicely and have related anecdotes that are right on topic.

Yes, I have read "The Crucible". I had too. When I was done I understood why it was required reading; no one would read it if they had a choice. If Miller had any talent he could have made his point without boring me half to death.

I also had to read "Death of a Salesman". It would have been a better book if the Salesman had died sooner. I would have been a lot less bored.

I never read the Communist Manifesto, but I doubt that Marx recommends the works of Miller, Rousseau, Tolstoy, Hemingway, Russell or Sartre. American communists must have made those connections on their own.

Lilly
Ayn Rand was not pushing Capitalism. Her focus was the individual. That each person owns himself and all that he produces and is honest in that endeavour. Free enterprise is a system employed by the individual and capital is just a tool of that enterprise. She saw the collective as destructive of freedom and as such an evil to be resisted.

To Wjriii
Those "restrictive and oppressive rules" are what holds civilization together. The homeschooling mother objected to the rule that a pronoun should agree in person and number with its antecedent noun. By the same logic, she could have objected to the rule that cat is spelled cat and not kat or qat. She might have no patience with the rule that when a student quotes somebody else in his term paper he must cite the source of that information and not pretend he invented the material himself. She might find silly the rule that sentences are separated with terminal punctuation so we can more easily follow the writer's intended meaning.

Some conservatives want no traffic speed limit. Most want no gun control rules. A frequent advertiser on townhall wants people to practice medicine on themselves---he puts down doctors with their credentials and rules. Yesterday a poster said he wants no rule that only a doctor can prescribe a drug---he wants "free pharmacy" access. And regulatory law is despised.

Some homeschooling parents want no state-imposed curriculum. Some states have no educational background requirement for homeschooling parents and require no testing or record-keeping. Some townhall posters want no public education system and one the other day said he would like to see all higher education defunded. On this very thread we have heard posters who don't see much point in studying literature.

These folks all seem to want a world without rules: "If it feels good, do it." What I find laughable is that these champions of "the world [being] without form, and void" are the conservatives. I am the one here arguing for rules and form and shape and clear direction---and I am the liberal.

Congratulations Lilly
You have unsuccessfully avoided the point of both the article and each one my issues.

The Crucible and Death of a Salesmen weren't crap because the author was a selfish, immoral, narcissistic scumbag.

They're crap all on their own. Alternately, he's not a great man and humanitarian just because his art is good (which it isn't), or more correctly, because he's lauded by leftists.

Additionally, the inclusion of Van Gogh in your list of detritus is ludicrous in the extreme. He suffered from various forms of dementia and epilepsy.

His work was brilliant DESPITE the ailments he fought.

However, the fact that you included someone with serious physical and mental disorders in a list of a bunch of gay guys is hilarious, and telling.

But, hey! He was an ex preacher with a hankering for hookers. I know how exercised leftists get over HYPOCRISY. Unless of course the subject is Algore, John Edwards or ... Arthur Miller.

p.s. Your description of the event surrounding the severing of his earlobe is sloppy at best. Especially for one so self-righteously indignant over precision. Let me guess, government school?

My home-schooled eight your old could bring you up to speed on Van Gogh if you like. The ten year old could also help you on your faulty use of logic and rhetorical fallacies. Just let me know.

To SteveL
I have often seen on this forum criticism of teachers for pushing a left-wing agenda in the classroom. You praise your former teacher for clearly pushing a right-wing agenda in the classroom. Is that any better? I would maintain that what a teacher should do is keep as neutral a classroom as possible so that students may have a free space where they may explore their own thoughts.

Art vs the Artist
If the work of art (the painting, the poem or play, the sculpture) is not a showcase of the artist's life, then what is it? What is it for? I would like to share a quotation from Browning that I think is the best commentary on art I know:

".............We're made so that we love
First when we see them painted, things we have passed
Perhaps a hundred times, nor cared to see;
And so they are better, painted---better to us,
Which is the same thing. Art was given for that;
God uses us to help each other so,
Lending our minds out....".

When we read The Crucible (or any other work worth teaching) the writer lends us his mind so that we may see undreamed-of dimensions in common things. That's not boring.

As for the artist having an axe to grind, yes, sometimes he does. Steinbeck wrote The Grapes of Wrath to push Socialism. Ayn Rand wrote The Fountainhead to push Capitalism. Orwell wrote Animal Farm to point out the dangers of Communism. He 1984 because after living through the Depression, World War II (during which his wife succumbed to malnutrition and he himself contracted tuberculosis), and the beginning of the Cold War, he was pessimistic about where the world was going. We can examine the artist's life to wonder about the wellspring of his creativity---but we should never condemn his art because we disapprove of his lifestyle.

To Dottie
Although townhall is full of non-teachers who criticize teachers, I don't fit in that category. I taught English for many years at the senior high school and college level, and have very often defended teachers on this forum.

I can't imagine anyone being bored by The Crucible. I have never known a classroom not to be electrified when John Proctor, having refused to hand over his signed confession, cries in agony that he will not do so:

"Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life!...How may I live without my name?"

Your own attitude will color how the students react to the literature you are teaching (I gather you don't think much of The Crucible) and to your co-teacher (whom you describe as "a liberal"). Do you think the kids can't see what is going on in that triangle formed by you, your co-teacher, and Arthur Miller?

To Pilgrim
Shakespeare was probably homosexual or bisexual. VanGogh cut off his own ear and sent it to his girlfriend. Toulouse-Lautrec was addicted to alchohol and opium and lived in a brothel where he contracted syphilis. Scott Joplin died of syphilis. Edgar Allen Poe was addicted to alcohol and probably to opium. Edward Albee is gay. Truman Capote was gay. AE Housman was gay. And so the list goes on. We do not judge art by the moral life of the artist.

Re Outside Funding
It is a pretty funny joke that the right is accusing moveon.org of "character assassination" of Petraeus. We may all remember the Swift Boat Veterans who successfully assassinated the character of a decorated war hero by painting him as a lying coward who had fabricated the events for which he received medals.

Meanwhile Freedom Watch, a right-wing organization funded and operated by former White House staff, has been running TV propaganda based on two lies, the first being that Iraq was responsible for 9-11 and the second being that Democrats advocate "surrender" in Iraq.

Not only are right-wing political propaganda groups like Swift Boat Veterans and Freedom Watch lavishly funded, but so are the right-wing think tanks like Heritage and Enterprise, both by individuals and corporations. I don't hear townhall folks saying one word about that when they come down on moveon.org and George Soros.

Failing to Live Up ...
It seems to me that somone is painting with a broad brush. On both sides of the politcal divide you will find people who are disfuntional in there private lives and accompolish something signifacant in there public lives. You will find conservatives and liberals who have done bad things in there private lives. Its not a genaric habit of either side.

In life most people have at some time failed to live up to there own expectations.




clinton

Gee, driveby,do you think maybe there's
a reason Bill Clinton was a subject of investigation -- how about gross misconduct and perjury for starters? The man's a walking-talking impropriety. As far as witch hunts, I don't think you have to climb far up the Clinton family tree to find a witch.

Minor Point
It was never HUAC-- It was The House Committee on Un-American Activities.

(just to be accurate)

Eli Pariser Stuff
By CARL CAMPANILE ~ New York Post 9/15/07
September 15, 2007 -- MoveOn.org is the $28 million left-wing smash-mouth bully of politics.

That's how much its political action committee spent last year to help Democrats win control of Congress - with nearly all the funds coming from contributors funneling their donations to candidates through MoveOn.

The trash-talking group has come under fire for running an ad saying Gen. David Petraeus will "betray us" by not pushing an immediate military bailout of Iraq.

MoveOn was founded by Silicon Valley's Joan Blades and Wes Boyd in 1998 to fight President Bill Clinton's impeachment over the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

Within months, more than half a million people had signed its online petition opposing Clinton's ouster - proving that the Internet could be used to launch a grass-roots political campaign.

MoveOn, now with more than 3 million members, raised and spent more on political campaigns last year than all other PACs but one, the pro-choice Emily's List.

Then there's executive director Eli Pariser, a 2000 college grad hired after

9/11. Tax filings show he is paid a cool $114,171 a year.

"[MoveOn has] become an influential force," said Massie Ritsch, a spokesman for the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington research nonprofit. ". . . It's a $28 million gorilla."

carl.campanile@nypost.com

Tomgee
Joe McCarthy presided over Senate hearings which investigated Communists in the GOVERNMENT. He had NOTHING to do with the HUAC investigation of Hollywood. THAT WAS THE HOUSE COMMITTEE -- HE WAS A SENATOR.

As it turned out, with proof from the Soviet Venona Project release in the mid '90s, Joe McCarthy was RIGHT -- THERE WERE COMMUNISTS IN OUR GOVERNMENT -- ALGER HISS WAS A BIG ONE IN THE FDR AND TRUMAN ADMINISTRATION -- and he was proved to be a Communist, along with others.

Failing to Live Up to Left-Wing Ideals

A Great Article. - If someone was given the task to make a compilation of opinions from columnists and readers they would readily determine that liberals prioritize issues based on equality and a communal viewpoint, whereas conservatives prioritize issues based on freedom and individual responsibility. Both convictions are genuine. Why then such a crazed difference in these opinions? History identifies the problem to be political extremism
Exactly 100 years ago, 884 delegates, consisting of revolutionaries and opportunists from 25 countries including America, met in Germany with biased claims of inequality and class struggle. These self described intellectuals, devised plans to destroy capitalism, infiltrate and revolutionize trade unions, and use anarchy and lawlessness to demilitarize countries at war, even if a country was fighting a defensive war to protect its citizens.
Russian delegate Lenin and other group-think revolutionaries used this 1907 assembly to spark the Russian revolution, inciting unthinkable terror and class warfare. Millions died as radicals turned on farm workers, factory workers turned on the factory owners, and the government executed citizens who disagreed with a leftist “one political party” ideology. Russia became a nation led by intellectual misfits, who knew nothing of governing, farming, or running factories and today has neither freedom or equality.

judging based on political desires
Obviously it is not just you who takes a couple of examples of people with leftist philosophies as establishing some kind of pattern. As the comments show many ideologues are willing to draw broad negative conclusions about people who disagree with them based on a couple of examples.

No doubt you have also noticed the conservative proclivity for serving divorce papers on wives in the hospital with cancer or hiring prostitutes or seeking gay sex in bathrooms.

Liberals who hear about Miller and his treatment of his son will likely continue to admire his work while deploring the way he treated his son. They are not likely to suddenly decide that everything about him is now infected with cooties as the Conservatives are doing with Larry Craig.

But then by the time one becomes an adult one should realize that peoples personal lives do not always live up to their public works. I heard this about Miller in a different context only recently, and I was neither surprised nor confirmed in any beliefs about him. Miller's Death of a Salesman is perhaps the most influential American play ever. But there is nothing in that that makes it likely that he was therefore a good person.

Louie
Please, rational analysis in a serious and measured tone is not what we expect here. If you can't post in a hysterical manner dripping with hatred you just won't fit in.

Lilly the leftist: Typical fallacies
"Whether Arthur Miller taught Sunday School or set fire to his cat is irrelevant to the value of The Crucible and Death of a Salesman."

But his "art" is relevant to his character. Especially to liberals. You see, this is exactly the measure by which those with the "correct" art and politics are judged innocent. Is the guy a piece of human garbage? Of course not, he's liberal and his "art" is approved.

On to leftist fallacy number two, the same one used by TurnLeft. If you don't like a liberal holy relic, you don't "get it." You're ignorant, misinformed, stupid, too biased to admit it's worth, etc.

Could it be that Miller's seminal work of holy writ is actually just a heavy handed, predictable, metaphor of partisan hackery, anointed by the leftist intelligentsia because it's leveled against the "correct" enemy of the people?

Nah, the critics are just ignorant.

p.s. How many times are you going to use that same example to excuse your hopeless apologia for the failure of the government school system? A failure which is directly attributable to the infestation of leftists intent on turning education into social engineering.

Miller's "Death of a Salesman"
I always thought Miller's work here was pretty tendentious. His was never my experience in a sales position, though I was not great at the art and profession of sales. Others who were good at this always seem to me to be well adjusted and genuinely upbeat people. They provided for their families and seemded to enjoy what they did for a living. But I can understand how a Left-wing point-of-view, especially in the light of Arthur Miller's communist sympathies, would portray so dour an image of salesmen as he did. This is to say that there is a connection between his personal politics and his portrayl of a salesman's life because he wants to make capitalism seem so seedy and unnatural. That fits his need to square his politics with reality. Moreover, he would understand that his audience is those who would buy into his sophist argument--those of a Left-wing bent already, even if none of them have experience in acutually being in sales. And if they have experience in sales, they would probably agree with his dour view because such people could 1) feel better about their own failures as a salesman or 2) find a niche as curmudgely salesman extraordinaire. The point being that my experience is that sales people are not the dregs of society, upperwardly mobile wannabes, selfishly inclined with absolutely no set of moral values that they actually practice. They could be, and some are, but the vast majority who make it a life-long profession are hard-working folk. This all runs counter to "Death of a Salesman" and counter to Arthur Miller, and supports a point of view which says that Left-wingers often, not always, are living in a self-imposed Left-wing culture. Not the real world.

driveby makes some good points
In speaking to the credibility of the Republican Party and his points are part of the reason I have have not renewed my membership. Fiscal responsibility is a complete joke and is a major reason they were thrown out. Increasing entitlements when those already on the books are going to bankrupt us is criminal. Smaller government doesn't even get lip service. When you abandon that for which you profess to exist you no longer have a reason to exist.

driveby on dehumanization
The idea that "you will not find hysteria about conservatives in general" in the bastions of liberal media is a joke. Period.

drivebyposting
Well, one positive thing I can say about you is that you are true to your name.

The vile invective spewing from the Huffington Post and Daily Kos are enough to peel paint. When reading posts on these sites it is necessary to sit 10 feet back from the monitor to avoid the spit flecks from some of the crazed and demented flotsam posting there.

You truly are living in a fantasy world.

To Jersevet--
Jersevet, well said, my friend and fellow vet. “His life (Miller’s) is just another illustration of the nihilism and selfishness that typify liberals, socialists, and communists. At the bottom of their high-faluting rhetoric lies a vast, echoing vacuum.”

Years ago, I removed myself from the theatre scene because of that “vast, echoing vacuum” you refer to. It increasingly pervades every aspect of that art form and all other secular art forms as a sinister force for enormous evil. It is a hideous vacuum of intellect, talent and moral principle so mysteriously powerful that it sucks its victims down into the bowels of hell without their even noticing what is happening to them. I’m so glad I managed to escape its deadly attraction when I did.

We Christian actors, playwrights, set designers, producers, directors, dancers, singers, etc. need to organize professional companies all over the nation to produce excellent work reflecting our own immensely superior world view without, of course, being preachy. If we can realize our potential, the good people of our nation will abandon the ludicrous twaddle on TV and on the movie screen to enjoy high quality, live performances of great new plays again.


re: TruLib writes:
"Come on, lighten up, you know you do the same thing. "

The problem statement is this. Our country is a two party system, hysterical nightmares about communist party do not count.

You are either a Democrat or a Republican.

As a realist one has to realize that corruption, hysteria, mudslinging and other less savory aspects of politics have always been around and will continue to do so.

However, the Republican party and its pundits have devolved to only using hysteria, mudslinging and less savory aspects of politics.

I thought it was telling that when Sam Alito was asked on CSPAN during his confirmation hearings who his political influences are he named William F. Buckley Junior. Buckley for most of his adult life (he's had a few moments) has refrained from hysteria and mudslinging. Once he passes, there will be no more.

The right wing gets elected on wedge issues. I'm sorry, the polically correct term is "values voters", but the reality is that hysteria and fear of gays, Muslims, terrorists and other boogey men are what "values voters" are voting.

The right wing has no credibility anymore with respect to smaller government, fiscal responsibility, strong on defense, economic smarts or any policy you care to name.

Loud mouths like Ann Coulter who's disrepect for humanity has to be measured in cubic tons because it is so palpable do not represent decent conservatives or me.

Without respect for those being governed, including the 1/2 of this country which is of the opposition party, the right wing will never be effective and never be material. TIf the likes of Hugh Hewitt and his constant "skewering" of liberals, as he puts it, is the best we got, we need the most serious kind of criticism imaginable.

The criticism by real conservatives of the emotional childish, ranting hysterical, mudslinging conservatives as got to be of the heaviest kind in order to reestablish order.

Reflections on Mass Hysteria
Mass Hysteria has many names, but one common element is to dehumanize those being persecuted.

What are the liberals hysterical about today?

1.) Bush
2.) Global Warming

What are the conservatives hysterical about today?
1.) Gays
2.) Liberals
3.) Terrorism
4.) Islam
5.) Clinton, Carter, Gore, the list is endless here.

There are some observations to be made. One is that when you are on the outside looking in, the hysterical people look silly. Those who are hysterical about Global Warming look silly to those who are not. Those who are hysterical about terrorist groups dominating the world, look absolutely juvenile to those who are not.

Nationalism, religious persecution, racism, and the list of hysterical vehicles is endless and part of human nature.

What I find telling though is if one visits Huffington Post or other liberal bastions of media, you will not find hysteria about conservatives in general. Dehumanizing with hysteria your political party opponent is unique to the right wing. Conservatives have succeeded in making liberal a 4 letter word. AM Radio, Town Hall and Fox News daily beat the liberal's are inhuman traitor scum pound, wasting precious oxygen and resources daily.

If anything has detached the mainstream public from respecting right wing conservatives it is there constant bashing of liberals.

Conservatives have a choice. They can choose to continue to demonize and spread hysteria about liberals in general or they can choose to pick their fights on the individual level.

Say what you will about liberal "bias", it is not conservative "hate". The hatred for liberals in this article and on this site would shame Jesus Christ if he were alive today that such unjustified hatred, that the deeds of a few people named by Amy, would be used to spread hatred in his name for millions of people who are no the left is truly the devil's work being done in Christ's name.

I know it's a typo...
but "when I toke English" made me laugh, child of the 60s that I am. I make no comment at all, pro or con, about the rest of the above comment(drivebyposting, 1:37 pm).

driveby
Come on, lighten up, you know you do the same thing. Some Republican acts like an *sshole and the Libs see it as evidence all conservatives are the same. There is hysteria all around. Also, I did some toking but it wasn't on English. (I am pretty sure it was Jamaican)

Mass Hysteria
Crucible, when I toke English, was taught as a entryway into American politics and the history of mass hysteria. Yes, mass hysteria is a phsycology concept.

Throughout American political history, mass hysteria and mob mentality have been used effectively. In the run up to the Revolutionary war, burning British figures in effigy and tar-and-feathering tax collectors where used to whip up the public into a frenzy.

The irony here of using the Crucible as an example is lost on you all. Town Hall is not about conservatism, Christian values, or getting Republicans elected. Town Hall's primary objective is to invoke mass hysteria. And Amy is in good form generalizing that liberals value dumping Down syndrome babies.

What were witches accussed? Fantastic, barbaric deeds, killing people.

It is immaterial that Arthur Miller actually did the evil thing that he did. What is material is that Amy is using that real-world deed to spread mass hysteria about liberals. Town Hall is about persecuting Liberals as witches.

Amy has no interest in discrediting Arthur Miller. Her only agenda is to whip up mass hysteria by painting all liberals as people who dump Down Syndrome babies. Liberals are witches, inhuman, monsters. The Salem Witch trials teach us that if that label ever does take hold, the killing of the witches will take place soon enough.

Mark Twain once said that truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to stick to what's believable. The irony of Arthur Miller's evil behavior of dumping his handicapped son being used as a generalization of painting all liberals as evil witches, all capable of such vicious, inhuman acts lives in the realm truth because no fiction writer would ever dare try such a ridiculous concept.

That anyone would take what Arthur Miller did and use that to generalize about some group, any group, is a desperate act of mass hysteria.




Hearing correctly?
Am I hearing the liberal rebuttal to Ms Herzog correctly? Personal conduct is inconsequential, as long as you mouth the "right" ideas? Personally, I'm somewhat suspicious of fruit from a poisoned tree, but it does explain a lot about liberals. I've always thought deathbed repentence was a hinky doctrine, but this beats that all to heck: You can make your statement of belief and just keep right on sinning! It doesn't matter what you do, only what you say! And since nothing you do is ever wrong, you're not a hypocrite! No, no, the only hypocrites are the conservatives, because they don't SAY the right things. Liberalism truly is a marvel.

Art Versus Politics
After reading the posts here I think I would have to agree with those calling for the art to be taken at face value. The art is not the artist. I may think that Sean Penn is a bozo but when he is doing his job I am mesmerized. Would anyone here have wanted to hang out with van Gogh (reported to be a thoroughly awful person)? I could hang out with his work for the rest of my life.

The same cannot be said of politicians. I see their work as an extension of themselves as what they are about is the interpretation and enforcement of morality through the force of law. To not be that which they are foisting on the rest of us is evil and the reason that government so often fails at what it attempts.

slightly off topic

One of the peculiarities of McCarthyism is that it continues to have such resonance 50 years after its demise. One hears common reference to the McCarthy "era" -- even though it lasted only about five years. Moreover, McCarthy was put down once and for all by the Army-McCarthy hearings and by Edward R. Murrow, during a Republican presidential administration. None of the leftist targets of McCarthy's were as effective as those three, even though they had more reason to be.

Even though McCarthy wasn't wrong about everything, his abuses were real -- careers ruined over allegations of things that were none of the government's business. It's a good thing McCarthy was put out to pasture, as it is with other reckless demagogues. As Americans used to know before McCarthy and have been reminded many times since, actors, writers and other artists don't have to be exemplary persons to produce exemplary works of art.

One of the perverse results of McCarthyism is the enduring grudge of Hollywood against the political right and the fact that so many people have gotten so much mileage out of a five-year freak show triggered by a mean drunk with a shaky political base. I remember reading about the Salem witch trials as a kid and thinking that was a freak show, too. The long-term effects it DIDN'T have seem more significant than the ones it did.

Compared to the witch trials or the McCarthy "era," trotting out the "lesson of Vietnam" seems much longer term and more tiresome. And what is the lesson anyway? "Don't fight?" Or "Don't lose?"

liberals
I see by the enormous amount of posts on their part they still can't stand criticism. Somebody told them Arthur Miller or so and so is a classic because some communist professor loved it and they buy it. No one is allowed to dislike it or be critical in the least.

It's a classic so it must be good! Right?

Arthur Miller
The most ridiculously boring play written in the history of the world is Death of a Salesman. The Crucible is more interesting but it is spin. He wrote it to slam McCarthyism, but he forgot that McCarthy wasn't wrong about everything.

The Crucible
I had to read The Crucible and attend the school play of The Crucible in high school. Fortunately, I was too naive to realize that is was an analogy to McCarthyism, and it was not taught that way in our school. It was simply presented as a work of great art. When high school students are told "this is great art" and it is INCREDIBLY BORING and SEEMINGLY POINTLESS, then teachers have put a roadblock in the students' path to finding and appreciating other genuine great works. I think Tolstoy's War and Peace and Anna Karenina are two of the most enduring masterpieces of our time. But I also know that Tolstoy at the end of his life was abusive to his wife and children (which he took to be the prerogative of genius and so did she) and was a brick shy of a full load. I still thank God that he managed to produce these works before he ran off the rails. As for Authur Miller, why is he even in the news? He needed to marry Marilyn Monroe to keep his name in the news, and she, the poor deluded moron, married him in order to be close to what she thought was genius, as if his would rub off on her. She just resented being treated like a sex symbol even though that is how she made her living. Satre and his nihilism I can leave, and Rousseau and his savage children are nonsensical. Marx caused a lot of trouble with his screed and continues to do so because, even though Marxism has failed EVERYWHERE it has been tried, our public and academic intellectuals continue to embrace it. Why is that? I wish I knew. One would think that experience- this appears to be a good idea but it doesn't work- would be enough to dissaude them. Bottom line, I love movies, but the movie stars themselves are just sh*ts. I try to contain my gorge, but some I refuse to see altogether.

for lilly
lilly writes: "if your students are finding The Crucible boring, you are teaching it poorly."

I agree, teaching shouldn't be boring.

In junior high school, I was fortunate enough to have a RIGHT-WING social studies teacher (who actually had kind things to say about Joe McCarthy). He told us kids flat out that he saw his job as making sure that we kids did not get suckered into the far-left antiwar movement that was sweeping the country back then. Thanks to him, we kids were fortunate enough to hear about the world from a right-wing point of view.

I thank him for having helped me understand the world at an age when I was just becoming cognizant of it.

Literary Snobbery
I am thoroughly amused by Lilly's astonishment that certain individuals on Townhall "have never read major works of modern literature". It would be difficult to miss the implication of that observation. Presumably she would find no such literary insufficiency among liberals.

I reject the idea that the intelligence and worth of an individual is dependent on whether they have read certain "major works".

Lilly ventures to guess that "more people with screwed-up lives have produced great and enduring art than have people with well-orrganized, cheerful lives". Could these artists' lives have been so screwed-up that they too never read the "major works"? What qualifies one "artist's" work as great when so many find it to be boring and mediocre?

The idea that you can "teach" a book to students to make it something it is not is laughable.

"The Crucible" is NOT a great work of art. It is mediocre drivel and no amount of teaching will change that.

for drivebyposting
drivebyposting writes: "Putting "In God We Trust" on money as some opposition to the red scare is Christian hysteria at its witch hunt best. "

If you think that a harmless and nonthreatening slogan like "In God We Trust" is indicative of "Christian hysteria," it suggests that you are the one who is suffering from hysteria about Christianity.

America doesn't have an official church. But it is simply being perverse to ignore the fact that the vast majority of Americans are Christians and derive their moral code from Christianity.

Much as that sticks in your craw.

Jeeves

You make good points. Artists can communicate universal sentiments effectively without necessarily setting a good example. Lennon & McCartney's songs made me smile thousands of times during the darkest days of adolescence. Yet John Lennon the person sometimes made my flesh crawl. Even so, I wept when he was killed for all the happiness he'd conferred. So he wasn't perfect? Not a good enough reason to have his life cut short.

Richard Rogers wrote some of the greatest love songs ever but he was often a cad in his personal life. At least he translated the better part of his nature into something the rest of us can enjoy forever.

Does anyone know or care about Michaelangelo's personal life? If they did, would that detract from the tragic beauty of the Pieta?

thoughtful response

Trulib:

Thanks for your thoughtful response to my post.

I'll defer to your assessment of Orson Welles' career. I'm one of the people who marvels at any creative accomplishment. Irving Berlin wrote a thousand songs -- so what if all of them weren't great? Where would we be without God Bless America, White Christmas, What'll I Do? and many others? I'd feel like a genius if I could produce one catchy melody in my whole life.
If children could hum my tune as they wandered through the woods, looking for snakes and frogs as I once did, I'd feel generously rewarded.

As for the political finger-pointing about people's susceptibility to vanity, bribery and personal seediness -- I think it's a major, if unmeasurable, factor depressing voter turnout. Whether that's a good thing or not is difficult to assess.

Living consistently with their beliefs…

Is it just me, or does there seem to be a correlation between radical socialist views and heinous personal conduct? -Ashley Herzog


No, Ashley you are not the only one who has noticed this correlation. These men are trying to live consistently with their world-view. If you reject religion, then why live under its constraints? Most who agree with these men will live in a way that is inconsistent with their beliefs. They must live in the world that exists which they cannot understand nor explain.

Sartre stated that the basic problem in philosophy is that something exists rather than nothing. Nature is there even if man doesn’t know why. The condition of man is what it is even if man doesn’t understand how. Finite men cannot know these things apart from divine revelation.

They know that the world is broken, but are unwilling to submit their thinking to the Redeemer of the world; the One who has ‘abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel’. Their unbelief proves the words of the apostle…

‘The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.’ [1 Corinthians 2:14]

As the most intelligent among us, they are full of the transient wisdom of men, but are ignorant of the eternal wisdom of God revealed in Jesus Christ.

2 Analogies, A Metaphor and an Allegory
I am somewhat reminded of folks burning Beatles albums after John Lennon made his remark comparing the contemporary popularity of his band to that of Jesus Christ. Those albums had little, if anything to do with religion or dogma; they had artistic value on their own, regardless of the opinions of their creators (or yours; stick with me here. It's an analogy). I see a parallel with Mr. Miller's works: his political allegories (for such The Crucible is) may and should be considered apart from the man who created them; they have intrinsic value apart from the extrinsic (though necessary) connection to their creator. If you disagree with what the play expresses or implies, fine. Disagree with that. If you disagree with the man who wrote the play, fine. Disagree with him. And if you reject the work because of the man, well, fine also. Just don't bother me with it. Putting a masterpiece in an ugly frame doesn't invalidate the painting (that's a metaphor), nor does it excuse the choice of frame.

Or, for the TV watchers, would you reject a cure from Dr. House because you think he's a shn00k?

Eli Pariser of MoveOn.Org
Eli Pariser of MoveOn.Org is not too young to be a Hitler, Lenin, Stalin or maybe even worse. The look in this young man’s eyes is frightful and death to opposition is not out of the question. An elderly professor of mine fled Austria after the Anschluss lectured to us mush headed freshmen "Politics is not beanbag!" George Soros is an Alexanderite; ergo, a male bred from boyhood by the myth and folklore of Alexander the Great. This is common among Russian - Greek - Albanian and much of mountain Muslim cultures. Remember the story in order to win the fair hand of Roxanne it was necessary to undo the Gordian Knot and myth has it Alexander smashed it with the sharpness of his blade. To a George Soros type thinker the Constitution of the United States is their Gordian Knot and they will stop at nothing to smash it and make the fortunes from chaos their own. I confess being of speculative Cassandra thinking on this matter but I am the son of this wonderful country and I want my children and their grandchildren to live with the freedoms sacrificed for and given to me. Publicly, Eli Pariser is a mystery without portfolio, but he has a resume' which needs to be better explored. Things important are; was he the product of a Marxist upbringing, did he rebel from a structured institutional - religious existence, did he attend and graduate from university, where did he attend and what was his area of course study, was he the prodigy of a professor or academic department, does he have employment on his post-collegiate resume' and was it in private or not for profit endeavors. The seeds of this man’s thoughts are unknown and that situation must end so I ask those of you with greater access to pertinent information to make that information available before this organization gathers greater strength. MoveOn.Org could well become our domestic Al Quida.


Thanks TruLib
First you got the brain going with your response to Tomgee, then you made me laugh with your response to me! You are on a roll.

Au contraire on neo-con enlistment
I know many in the services. If you are a flaming lib., how would you know whether neo-cons are in the military or not? You stand outside a post and take a poll?

I taught Am. lit, for 20 yrs. and often taught The Crucible because it fits very nicely with teaching about Puritan settlement in NE and with the life of Nathaniel Hawthorne, who had an ancestor as a judge during the real witch trials. He wrote The Scarlet Letter to show the underside of Puritanism.

I think a man (John Proctor) standing up for his good name and reputation isn't boring. If a problem, the play's 4-act structure is unusual, and the playwright, to be semi-historical, has to assemble a huge cast of characters, not always easy to follow.

There's not an entirely bad movie with Paul Scofield (major Shakespearean actor) as Danforth (chief judge), Daniel Day-Lewis as Proctor, and Wynona Ryder as Abigail Williams (possible instigator of the girls' behavior).

Actually, no one knows why the "witches" behaved as they did: religious hysteria, sexual repression, ergot (food poisoning), ec. (land) and pol. disputes--the witches tended to be poorer and accuse the wealthy and powerful. You can teach anything to be interesting.

Miller himself might not have been so lionized except he was a "hero" of McCarthyism, although MCCARTHY DID NOT INVESTIGATE SHOW BUSINESS--he was interested in the state dept. He said there were 246 commies there and when the USSR fell and the Venona files were available, most of the people Mc. accused were communists.

Miller appeared before HUAC, the House UnAmerican Activities Comm. that invest.'d "subversion" and included forays into the Ku Klux Klan as well as communism in the arts.

Dottie
Not about talking animals? Now I am really confused.

Tomgee
Inappropriate behavior as perceived by conservatives is most often punished. Craig is being pushed to leave, Foley was pushed out and Swaggart and the Bakkers suffered for their actions.

Similar types of conduct by those on the left is apparently considered acceptable by those in power. Congressman William Jefferson is still in office. Murtha is in the House leadership despite being an 'unindicted co-conspirator'.

While the right often doesn't do more than pay lip service to ethics it is better than no payment at all.

In addition I believe you err in including Welles in your list of one hit wonders. Along with Citizen Kane should be listed The Third Man, The Magnificent Ambersons, Touch of Evil and a couple of others that I can see in my mind but can't put a name to. I agree with you on the others you list but believe Welles produced great things for an extended period and deserves his accolades.

Lilly - Liberal Mantra
Lilly,

You expressed your amazement at a homeschooling mom when questioned about her incorrect grammar said, "Who made that rule, and why should I follow it?"

Isn't that the liberal mantra?

I would have thought that you would understand and appreciate the homeschooler's complaint against living under such restrictive and oppressive rules which she had no hand in establishing and which has limited the creativity and expression of billions of people for centuries. :-)

Iconoclasm is fun
Having read “Death of a Salesman” and “The Crucible” as well as other such screeds I am not amazed that such dreary writing should be praised and taught. Like the coffee table book that people buy to showcase their intellectual pretensions, it’s a snob thing. Tom Wolfe wrote an excellent book, “The Painted Word” on this kind of intellectual pretension as it pertains to modern art. Surely no one would read Miller’s plays for pleasure.

Lilly wrote “And, Dottie, if your students are finding The Crucible boring, you are teaching it poorly.” No, Lilly, the reason that students find these writings boring is because they are.

The famous cartoon from the New Yorker applies. A mother says to her son “it’s broccoli dear.” He replies “I say it’s spinach – and to hell with it.”

psst, lilly tuck in your ignorance
It is so easy to blame the teacher when you are NOT one, isn't it lilly? I happen to co-teach with a very liberal teacher who LOVES the story, who acts like Arthur Miller was the greatest playwright of all time, and who knows more about this play than anyone I have ever known.

We do everything we can to make this play relevant to the students, but they find it incredibly boring. Even when we have them enact it, they hate the story. I would imagine that many actual teachers could back me up on this. My own daughter was an honor student, and she and several girls made a video based on The Crucible. It stayed true to the basic story, but they took a lot of liberties "to make it more interesting." They all thought the story was horridly boring.

I would say that many students find the reading of The Crucible to be a crucible!

And, by the way, drive-by, The Crucible is an allegory. You need to brush up on your literature so you know that. I don't know if you were made to read Animal Farm, but it wasn't really about talking animals.

correction

Fourth line from the bottom should read: "key conservative principles of limited government"

It's not just you
No, Ashley, it's not just you who finds Arthur Miller's writings boring. Death of a Salesman is excellent and likely to remain a classic, and After the Fall made a so-so TV movie, but I've never been able to get through anything else Miller wrote, including his autobiography, Timebends. "Toast of Broadway moves to rural Connecticut; lives a subsequently dull life." Big deal. It's fairly typical of Miller that the title doesn't make any sense. Why not just call it "Me" as Katherine Hepburn did? She was another show biz hot shot who lived in a picturesque part of Connecticut and whose autobiography was boring, too.

Arthur Miller was like those "one hit wonders" you hear on late night radio from time to time. He created a remarkable work early in his career, then coasted on his reputation for 50 years while fans waited expectantly for another stroke of genius. Harper Lee with To Kill a Mockingbird, J.D. Salinger with Catcher in the Rye, Orson Welles with Citzen Kane, Ernest Thompson with On Golden Pond, are similar. At least they did that much. Most of us pass through life without achieving enough to make our obituaries more interesting than a want ad.

Many people lead seedy personal lives, regardless of talent level or ideology. Senator Craig, Rep. Foley, Jimmy Swaggart & the Bakkers demonstrate that people on the political right can act revolting, too. It isn't just the Kennedys.

I feel that the "family values" political right is making a mistake by trying to convince the public that leftists are personally seedier than everyone else. It can never be proven without abandoning one of the key conservatives of limited government -- that state power should only try to do so much, and that a key right of individuals is the right to be left alone. Prying into personal lives might simply add to public cynicism and dissuade otherwise qualified people from public service.

driveby
Witch hunt refers to investigations and prosecutions that are brought with no factual underpinnings.That Bill Clinton is a serial abuser of women and a known perjurer is a fact.

That Miller threw his child to the wolves is of no interest to the left. He was working for the greater good and as such gets a pass.

Right On!
Arthur Miller was a very selfish man who destroyed many lives in addition to his son, but the fact that, like so many so-called "intellectuals," he was an arrogant hypocrite comes as no great surprise. His life is just another illustration of the nihilism and selfishness that typefy liberals, socialists, and communists. At the bottom of their high-faluting rhetoric lies a vast, echoing vacuum.

Right On!
Arthur Miller was a very selfish man who destroyed many lives in addition to his son, but the fact that, like so many so-called "intellectuals," he was an arrogant hypocrite comes as no great surprise. His life is just another illustration of the nihilism and selfishness that typefy liberals, socialists, and communists. At the bottom of their high-faluting rhetoric lies a vast, echoing vacuum.

Judging Art
A work of art is not judged by the personal life of the artist. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that more people with screwed-up lives have produced great and enduring art than have people with well-organized, cheerful lives. Whether Arthur Miller taught Sunday School or set fire to his cat is irrelevant to the value of The Crucible and Death of a Salesman.

And while I continue to think that nothing I read on townhall will surprise me, I still felt astonished to see people bragging that they have never read major works of modern literature. Makes me think of a townhall thread on homeschooling a couple of months ago. I pointed out that a pro-homeschooling website was full of errors and that, in particular, it failed about a dozen times to observe consistency of pronoun and antecedent noun. A homeschooling mother fired back, "Who made that rule, and why should I follow it?"

Then just a couple of days ago a townhall poster volunteered that, if he could, he would de-fund all higher education.

And, Dottie, if your students are finding The Crucible boring, you are teaching it poorly.



Witch Hunts
I read The Crucible in college as did many.

The discussion as about the Salem Witch Trials and how Christian hysteria has lead to witch hunts throughout American histories.

That's the truth. Miller is just making the connection between McCarthyism and Puritanical fanaticism.

Take Bill Clinton. Clinton holds quite a few major distinctions for a President in the witch hunt category.

1.) Only President under investigation his entire 8 years.
2.) Only Presiden to ever have the opposition party even think to consider bringing a civil lawsuit.

Clinton's witch hunt was a witch hunt of Christian hysteria. Paula Jones filed her lawsuit on the last day of the statue of limitations, which was 4 years. Her entire suit was paid for by Republican operatives. Paula Jones was paid to bring suit.

Witch hunt.

And or course the Queen Witch herself was on the prosecuting team. That's right, Anne Coulter's reputation was made as a witch enacting a witch hunt.

I'd say that makes Arthur Miller all manner of genius.

It's pathetic the way the right wing calls liberals traitors for not supporting Bush, but during the entire eight years of Clintons presidency the right wing was on a massive witch hunt that cost the tax payers 70 million dollars.

Why is "In God We Trust" on our money today? Because during the "red scare" of the forties, the Congress passed a law to have it put on the money. McCarthy was asked about which God was intended, to which he replied, "It doesn't matter which God, just as long as you believe in God."

Putting "In God We Trust" on money as some opposition to the red scare is Christian hysteria at its witch hunt best.

The "Crucible" is about witch hunts and not communism. But then you would have had to pay attention in class to know this.

Have you ever read?
What diffeence is it whether you have ever read this or that or even that this or that person wrote this or that if he or she was a terrible human being?

The Crucible
My high school juniors are required to read The Crucible. I will just say this about the play--Ashley is NOT the only one who finds it mind-numbingly boring.

One word
Ouch.

Warren Small
"The gap between the ideals of the intelligentsia and their failure to live up to them can indeed be instructive, and consoling to those of us who can neither think hard nor behave well."

Failure to live up to ideals is fine and educational, Warren Small. Its just that liberals consistently reach into pockets and lives to demand that others finance those "ideals", that they themselves cannot/will not live up to. That, Warren Small, is the problem.


I can identify well with this article
"I don’t understand why everyone is so shocked. Miller belongs to a long tradition of left-wing “humanitarians” who have wagged their fingers at the unenlightened common people, scolding them for their support of capitalism and their lack of concern for the downtrodden – and yet couldn’t manage to stop using and abusing everyone around them."

The very worst supervisors I've had over the years in social work have been positively rabid liberals, each oddly bent on time consuming meetings and limited client contact. Most liberal I know serve SYSTEMS and IDEAS regardless of what they produce; very different from concern for the "down trodden".


Tolstoy
Actually, I've read a fair amount of Tolstoy and never got the idea that he was a Marxist liberal fanatic, though clearly he didn't think much of the Russian nobility. Then again, who would think much of the Russian nobility? They weren't as bad as the communists but life under them was no picnic. Don't think I've read any Miller, Rousseau, or Sartre. Don't think I'd like to either.

for TurnLeft
TurnLeft writes: 'Have you even read Death of a Salesman or The Crucible?"

The Crucible was a polemic, a piece of very clever political propaganda. Miller INTENDED it as an allegory to McCarthyism.

Needless to say, we conservatives have a different view of those years. Was Joe McCarthy guilty of excesses? Yes. But were there Communists in show biz? Yep, and they were using their influence to put forward radical points of view. Heck, Pete Seeger, the folk singer, has remained an avowed Marxist his entire life.

The Left has created this myth about "McCarthyism" that they were totally innocent of the charges being brought against them. No they weren't. In fact, back in the 1930s and 1940s, it was chic for any leftist to consider himself a "socialist" and it was considered bad form for socialists to criticize the Stalinist regime.

The Left has NEVER apologized to the American people for their disastrous love affair with the USSR. Even after Yeltsin admitted that Reagan had been right about the USSR being an "evil empire," you still won't find many American leftists willing to admit that.

I've never read
any of the writings mentioned above. There, I'm ignorant, I guess.

How does the quality of the writing justify using and abusing fellow human beings, as TL seems to imply? It's fine the way Arthur Miller treated his handicapped son, because hey, "Death of a Salemsan" is said to be a good story? Is that what you're saying, TL?

Surely not.


Hypocrite's hypocrite
Miller is just one ex. He also has spent years decrying McCarthyism but never appeared before Mc. in the Senate. Those were hearings on the state dep't. He appeared before Congress, the House UnAmerican Activities Committee (HUAC).

Al Gore runs 4 households where merely one of them uses more energy in a month than my house has used in a decade. In front of the Senate, Gore refused to take contradictory questions or debate on his expert topic global warming. He has founded a carbon credits co. from which he buys his "credits" for his homes and jet.

My favorite for my coll. students who are under too much thrall to celebs. and pseudo-celebs is River Phoenix--an excellent young actor whose brother Joaquin is a fine one--who was a vegetarian: no meat shall pass these lips and corrupt this body. But he died of cocaine seizure and was found to have 7 drugs in his system in autopsy. THEN, his bosom buddy Johny Depp--a favorite actor of mine--had the ill Phoenix taken outside and dumped on the sidewalk, ostensibly to get him "closer to ER help," but more likely to keep him from dying in Depp's nighclub.

Wow, Ashley
You're usually pretty obtuse, but this column is a new low in ignorance. Trashing Arthur Miller and Jean-Jacques Rousseau? Really?!

Have you even read Death of a Salesman or The Crucible?

Have you read Rousseau's Confessions, or the Theory of Natural Man? I would guess not, at least not without already having decided they were Satan in print. That last one, Natural Man, is especially hated by Christians, I suppose, because it basically says that religion is the ultimate corrupter. What a wise man, Rousseau was.

Oh, Ashley, never mind. Go on trashing some of the best humans that have ever lived. I know you don't know any better, anyway. Have a good weekend, though!
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