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Wednesday, February 21, 2007
Ann Coulter :: Townhall.com Columnist
John Murtha: Caving in to Arabs Since 1980
by Ann Coulter
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Rumored ex-Marine John Murtha, Democrat congressman from Pennsylvania, has become the darling of the cut-and-run crowd for trying to place absurd restrictions on our troops, amounting to withdrawal from Iraq. Were Arab sheiks whispering into his ear?

In case you missed the video on "I Love the '80s," Rep. Murtha was caught on tape negotiating bribes with Arab sheiks during the FBI's Abscam investigation in 1980. The Abscam investigation was conducted by Jimmy Carter's Justice Department, not right-wing Republicans.

On tape, Murtha told the undercover FBI agent: "When I make a f***in' deal I want to make sure that I know exactly what I'm doing and ... what I'm sayin' is, a few investments in my district ..."

It is a profound and shocking fact that Murtha even showed up at this meeting, knowing he was going to be negotiating bribe money with Arabs.

Murtha added that he wanted the investment in his district to look like it was done "legitimately ... when I say legitimately, I'm talking about so these bastards up here can't say to me ... 'Jesus Christ, ah, this happened,' then he (someone else), in order to get immunity so he doesn't go to jail, he starts talking and fingering people and then the son of a bitch all falls apart."

For those of you just joining us, no, this isn't a scene from "The Sopranos." It's an actual conversation between a U.S. congressman and an FBI agent posing as an Arab sheik offering a bribe.

Murtha further said that although he was not prepared to accept cash at that time, "after we've done some business, then I might change my mind." You know, just what you or I or any American might say when offered a cash bribe by an Arab.

The ever-helpful media exposed the Abscam investigation before it could be completed, and consequently we were deprived of the possibility of seeing Murtha on tape stuffing cash in his trousers like the other Democratic congressmen (and one "moderate" Republican) convicted in the Abscam investigation. Or, as Al Gore used to call such a fund-raising procedure, "community outreach."

But Murtha was willing to trade favors in return for investment in his district -- and suggested he might take cash down the line. In other words, Murtha wasn't calling for an immediate surrender of his scruples and principles, but rather a phased withdrawal of them.

In fact, according to a co-conspirator's affidavit, it didn't take long for Murtha to warm to the idea of a cash bribe.

About a month after the taped meeting with Murtha, the co-conspirator, lawyer Howard L. Criden, wrote in his affidavit: "Yesterday, Feb. 1, (Democrat Congressman Frank 'Topper') Thompson called and told me that Murtha was ready to go," adding that Murtha had indicated "during January that he was not ready to do business but would be willing to do so in the future."

Criden said: "Congressman Murtha of Pennsylvania would be willing to enter into an agreement similar to that of the other congressmen" -- i.e., taking $50,000 cash from the sheiks for legislative favors.

Criden's affidavit went unsigned, according to his lawyer, Richard Ben-Veniste, solely because of the resulting publicity when the press blew the investigation, leading Criden to believe the prosecutors had broken the deal.

Criden was later convicted and sentenced to six years in prison, along with seven members of Congress (six of them Democrats). Murtha was an unindicted co-conspirator. (Would that Patrick Fitzgerald were prosecuting the case!)

As an attorney, let me give you the technical legal description of what occurred: John Murtha was as guilty as O.J. Simpson.

Now Murtha issues high moral pronouncements on the war and denounces our troops, calling the U.S. military "broken, worn out" and "living hand to mouth." Gee, too bad there aren't any Arab sheiks offering them cash bribes. Sounds like they could really use the money.

Murtha accuses Marines of killing "innocent civilians in cold blood" during an ongoing investigation. Semper Fi, Mr. Dirty Congressman.

Instead of toppling brutal dictators and spreading democracy in the Middle East, Murtha apparently prefers the old way of doing business with Arabs, where he gets juice from the sheiks.

The Democrats' cheat-sheet on Murtha demands that it be shouted out: "He didn't take a bribe on tape!" That's their defense. There is not even a pretense that he didn't talk to Arabs about a bribe.

He negotiated with a prostitute at the bar, but never consummated the deal. He's a saint! Let him be my congressman!

It's the Clintonian "incompetency" defense: Murtha was willing to be bribed; he just never got his act together enough to pick up the cash. I may not be honest, but I'm way too disorganized to actually take bribes!

Fine, Murtha was never convicted. Neither was Nixon. Venal hack John Murtha was willing to sell his country's interests to Arab sheiks. This is the man Democrats have put up to lead the anti-war charge today, demanding that the commander in chief stop deploying troops against his Arab friends.

If only this whole war thing would blow over, maybe that Arab is still waiting out there with a deal for him.

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About The Author
Ann Coulter is a columnist and author of Guilty: Liberal Victims and Their Assault On America.
 
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FUNNY, ISN'T IT?
How howling blowhards like Keith Olbermann aren't dragging this tape up from the archieves and broadcasting it nightly for weeks at a time. Sounds like it would be good for 'Oddball'.
But then again, he is the new darling of the left with all the credentials that go with it.
No, not his military service.
I'm talking about the fact that he has a history of being bribed and courted like any other corrupt politician. He just happens to belong to the right-correct- party.
None of this will ever be played out on the LLMSM.

Good article Ann!
We are fortunate to have you keeping on top of all the "behind-Scene-Corruption." Thanks for your vigilance!

This is the man the moonbats defend by saying.. How dare you question this ex-Marine! This hero! Ha! I have news for you Liberals. All the Marines I've talked to, consider him without honor, a coward, a disgrace to the Marine Corp. And a traitor to our country.

But I'm sure you will ignore the facts in Ann's article. While you fulfill your vile need to attack Ann herself.

Mr. Dirty Congressman.
"But Murtha was willing to trade favors in return for investment in his district -- and suggested he might take cash down the line. In other words, Murtha wasn't calling for an immediate surrender of his scruples and principles, but rather a phased withdrawal of them."

Oh Ann you are priceless! Typical liberal heor isn't he?

i agree
existentialist is correct. This guy is dirty. His brother is dirty. I just can't picture him being an honorable marine.
If he had served honorably and he was taking bribes he would shut up about being a marine and he wouldn't be persecuting marines. He would be quite on that point.
He probably got his medals the Kerry way.
OK. Where are the libs with the republicans-did-it-first defense? And the other Alan Combs defense -- it-hasn't-been-proved-in-front-of-a-jury-of-his-peers-on-a-Tuesday-yet-so-he-is-innocent.
(Combs only has two things to say.)

Kimberly
Hey where are you? Ann's column has been up for an hour or two and you haven't posted yet - you're late. I will sit here and sit here until you post your spew and make my day. Hurry I'm waiting!

quite should be quiet
quiet

Ann left out one important ABSCAM fact
The DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS upon being caught with so many of their hands in the cookie jar chose to abuse their power and have Congressional hearings to investigate the FBI itself for having the common decency to investigate Congressional impropriety. They also got their Liberal lawyer buddies in the ACLU to criticize and attempt to prosecute the FBI for improper bribery methods. How is that for Liberal arrogance, elitism, and obstruction of justice???

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04E1DC1E38F93AA1575AC0A964948260&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fSubjects%2fB%2fBribery

"In July 1981, the House Ethics Committee also chose not to file charges against Congressman Murtha, following a mostly party line vote. The resignation later that day of Republican E. Barrett Prettyman, Jr., the panel's special counsel, has been interpreted as an act of protest.[9]

Mr. Murtha remains prominent in Congress, and has been re-elected by his constituency 13 times over a course of 26 years."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abscam







Secondary effects.
Representative Murtha’s plan to place impossible pre-deployment requirements on the military that he knows they will be unable to meet comes off as incredibly naïve at best and patently treasonous at worst. His thought process being that by doing so, the military will just give up and come home since it can’t maintain 12 month rotations. This is ludicrous. The military’s solution will simply be to extend the troops already there and then replace them at a trickle as units finish jumping through the required hoops. Troops who already know they are looking at 10-16 month tours would then be looking at what; 20-24 month combat rotations? This from a man who led troops in Vietnam? Every good military leader I know has two common traits. They love their Soldiers and they will put everything on the line for them. Apparently, Representative Murtha never had these traits or he quickly forgot them when he entered politics. I cannot believe a former Marine would so cravenly exploit the military. The current operational tempo makes it difficult enough to maintain our ground forces. His solution to handle a war he disagrees with is to punish the people who are faithfully prosecuting their orders and have no say in the decision making that lead them to it. It is along the same line of thinking as the cultural tradition of killing rape victims to preserve family honor. I guess he will really show the Republicans and President Bush he is the man by breaking our military and making it ineffective. I am tired of publicity hounds and ideologues like this. Senator Kennedy, Representative Murtha and their like make me long for term limits. We have too many politicians and not enough statesmen.

He was running a scam,
of course. He was waiting for the right moment to unmask those bribin' sheiks!

Take Back the Government
Nothing new about that. The libvermin reelected Gerry Studds, boy-rapist, and even cheered for him after he was censured for flying to Morocco to have gay sex with a 17 y.o.

H*ll, they're STILL circling the wagon for The Impeached One. I think Red Nancy just appointed Frozen Money Jefferson to a other committee...after the heat has worn off don't ya know.

Murtha's Plan for Post Withdrawal Iraq?
For the sake of argument assume he is both patriotic and honest. Would someone please ask him what he expects to happen to the people who have support the coalition forces in Iraq when our soldiers leave? What is his estimate of the number of people who will be killed in the first 100 days? The first six months? Do we have any moral obligation to the people who were willing to risk freedom over tyranny? Just asking.

Ah, God
You gotta love it.

This is the up side to the Dems taking control of Congress. Now the whole world can watch themselves make total jacka$$es of themselves. Which just happens to be their party symbol! How appropriate.



bobbit
you may have to wait until Kimbat's metamucil works and she can squeeze out her thought for the day.

A disgraced Republican Resigns
but being a liberal means never having to say you're sorry. Just because the idiots in their district/states keep electing these guys does not mean the MSM has to cover them and have them on their shows. If a Republican had the history that Kennedy has, the MSM would treat him like a pariah. However, thanks to the MSM, we are treated to the moralizing of this despicable man on a regular basis. If Murtha was a Republican, he'd be a footnote in history and would have left Congress 25 years ago.

BTW
One further thought, for all those in a panic about any legislation this Congress may pass that's going to cripple the war effort.

Bush still has veto power.

Now, it's true that finding the pen may be a "Where's Waldo" type effort, as it's probably buried under the dirty laundry in a hamper somewhere, or in a junk drawer in the kitchen.

But he does have that power. And the Dems don't have anything even resembling a veto-proof majority.

BrianR
Not to mention the battle royal coming between Hitlary and Omama. The best is the Breck Girl John Edwards circling overhead, dropping pearls of stupidity like the rabid moonbat he is.

A multi-millionaire, living in a secluded 28,000 sq ft mansion, for a family of four, talking about "two" Americas. Priceless.

BrianR
Right. But to hear the libweenies talk about it, they have a clear mandate! haha.

Murtha the war hero
Something about Murtha's supposed war record smells a bit fishy. Like Kerry, it appears he is not willing to open his records that would prove or disprove whether he actually deserved those purple hearts. I have to wonder about a career reservist who "volunteers" for duty in a war zone and then proceeds to build a lifelong political career on that war record. He may have served honorably, but he may have embellished his record a bit, too.

Question for Marine Corps vets: according to Wikipedia, Murtha was a "battalion staff officer (S2 Intelligence Section)." Now I was a swab jockey myself and don't really know, but that doesn't sound a whole lot like a combat role to me. Whattaya think?

Why Murtha of the Purtha Loves Arabs
Why, with all those lovely oil wells, the power of the purth looms large in the Middle East.

Who ever waves the richest Purtha under the nose of Murtha gets his loyalty.

Anyone ever notice that when Repubs get caught in a scandal, the party shoves them out of the nest like the rotten egg they are.

But when the Dems have a rotten egg, their leadership wants to put them into positions of prominance.

mariner
The S-2 is not a combat role. He's in the rear the gear.

Even if he WAS a combat hero, his behavoir afterwards negates it.

BTW, Benedict Arnold was also a hero in the Revolutionary War and his name is synonymous with being a traitor.

Gunny: LOL
Yeah, it's great stuff!

I love Edwards; your "Breck Girl" appellation is right on the money! He's one of the best people on OUR side.

The guy's not just an empty suit. There's no there, there (to use a phrase coined by one of the Algonquins).

Mariner, re: Murtha
I'll defer to Gunny's Marine expertise, as I was Army, but typically rear echelon officers always got some great medal (usually no less than a Bronze Star) just for "being there", while a field grunt was lucky if he got recognized for anything at all.

And I agree w/Gunny. Anything that starts with an "S", like S-2 (Staff Intelligence) means he was back where the food was hot.


PS
I'm referring to Vietnam, of course, where Murtha served (as did I). So that was the status during our war.

So...
Congressman from both parties take bribes from a wide variety of people for legislative favors all the time, this isn't news.

Off Topic But...
do the Clinton acolytes still think that there is no way her camp planted the negative stories on Obama a couple weeks ago? Hillary sure doesn't appreciate this UPPITY BLACK MAN taking money from those assumed loyal to her. I'll bet the "N" word is flying around the Clinton Camp today. How dare Hollywood back this "N." Don't they know Hillary is queen?

Moderate
When you're caught, it is news. Once again, a Republican resigns. A liberal is given cover by the MSM and stays in office. Absolutely no shame!

Perfect Irony
Wouldn't it be ironic if Murtha's constituents are the first to bombed in a terrorist attack? Of course, it won't be his, it will be Hitlery's. Too bad for all of those New Yorkers who will be killed by the inaction of the left.

Do we have to lose another 3,000 before someone gets the point that the Muslim idea of peace is part of the term "rest in peace?"

God Rest Their Souls.

Following on to The Dirty Greek's point.
How does Murtha's plan to deprive troops of training and equipment, and coerce the Joint Chiefs into extending tours as a result, square with the Democrats' claim that they "support the troops but not the mission"?

Answer: it doesn't.

In fact it is exactly the opposite.

Murtha's 'tactics' won't make it better for our troops in Iraq. They will only make it tougher and more dangerous for them. And these 'tactics' will have the added side effect of leaving our military weaker, less prepared, and more likely to incur casualties on ANY mission, whether it has anything to do with Iraq, the war against terror, or anything else.

Keep this in mind the next time some cut-and-run butthole tells you he supports the troops but not the war (any war).

Moderate
"..this isn't news."

Right. It's only news just before election time when some lib 'journalist' (and I use the term loosely) pulls an October surprise by announcing that Mark Foley sent suggestive emails to pages (this is described as a horrible 'scandal' by the same left that contends homosexuality is 'normal' and that pedophilia is NOT homosexuality), or when a Republican war hero Congressman like Duke Cunningham is caught dirty.

It's not news only because hypocrisy is the norm for the left. And if you're going to sign on with it then stop kidding yourself about being a "moderate".

Taking one for the Team
The corrupt old fool Jack Murtha is the point man for the Democrats. The goal is a replay of 1974. Cut funding and engineer a defeat for our military. The only difference is in addition to millions of deaths in other countries ( a fact that doesn't seem to bother the leftists.) there will be millions of deaths here.

Where are the libs here on this one?
Not a single note so far from any of the usual suspects...

Perhaps Murtha has acted this time.
"If only this whole war thing would blow over, maybe that Arab is still waiting out there with a deal for him."

Or maybe that Arab already has made the deal. How much $$ did it take for him to sell out the troops? It's not like he's above this type of thing.

Maybe some of the conspiracy nuts could take a break from their toppled WTC hobby and lend us a hand with this possible theory.

Another Column Needed
I appreciate Ann Coulter's columns as much as anyone, but I wouuld like to see another column that focuses on Murtha's current day foibles. I understand what Murtha did back in 1980 reflected the lack of character on the part of Murtha. But I am concerned that what Murtha is doing today in undercutting the troops is far worse.

J. Murtha - Pride of Western PA
" And they shall know you by the company you keep".

It says something about a Congressional district, to continually re-elect such morally-challenged reprobates like Murtha or "Freezer-bag Jefferson". It puts one to mind of the constituents of Washington, DC - electors of one Marion Barry - crack-head extraordinaire and toast of our nation's capitol. Even after all doubt was removed as to these crooks' guilt, still their wretched constituents willfully chose to return them to office.

The lesson for the rest of us? Punish them! The citizens of these districts, that is. It is pointless to appeal to the sensibilities of crooks - they are crooks, after all. On the other hand, it is possible to leverage some influence over the people who continually foist their crooks on the rest of us.

As long as Murtha is in office, I will make it my business to make certain that if I can stick my thumb on the scales against the interests of the degenerates in Johnstown, PA and environs, I will stick it to them. I will not knowingly do business with any employer based in Johnstown, I will not spend any money in Johnstown, and I will lobby my Congressman not to approve any earmarks destined for Johnstown. And if by some unfortunate twist of fate, I should find myself passing through Johnstown, I will toss salt out my car's window to insure that nothing grows whereever I pass while crossing their god-forsaken cesspool of degeneracy.

Innocent unless proven guilty.
In the United States, we practice a philosophy whereby a person is deemed innocent of a crime until they have been proven guilty. Thus, though Murtha openly negotiated for a bribe, and fully indicated he was for sale, the lack of a successful prosecution means that he did no wrong. Murtha prostituted his ethics, but unless you are caught and convicted, no such act can be held against you.

For example, if an intruder robs a house, rapes the wife, murders the husband, and pan fries the toddler, that intruder is deemed innocent of all charges until a verdict of guilty is rendered. If the police officer forgets to read the Miranda rights, and the case is thrown out because of that, then that officially renders the intruder as being an innocent man. True, the guy did the crime, but the lack of a conviction absolves him of any responsibility for his actions.

Such is the case with Murtha. He may have drank from the cesspool, but we cannot complain about his breath because we failed to convict him of anything. Thus, Murtha is as innocent as the aforementioned intruder, and we should be willing to ignore whatever indiscretion that occurred. Instead of condemning him, we should look up to him as the epitome of the class of men that hold the majority in the House and Senate.

BrianR and veto
You have to remember that although the President can veto legislation that may "require" him to remove the military from Iraq (aka surrender) but he cannot veto a "non-spending" bill (another words, he cannot make them send him a bill that authorizes him to spend money). But the spine this congress is showing, I am not sure that they will actually remove his spending authority.

Loyal Democrat
Yes. I see that now. Sorry, I forgot. I don't know what came over me. You would have thought that after 8 years of Not-Getting-Caught-In-A-Lie-Is-The-Same-Thing-As-Telling-The-Truth Clinton, my re-education would have taken hold better.

wiseone
I think you misunderstand what "Moderate" is a reference to, it isn't my political standing.

Our governmental system has checks
and balances, but it's going to break down if people are willing to elect corrupt people into office. As a matter of practice, it's a bad idea to elect crooks and murderers.

If a liberal doesn't post something here soon defending their crooks I'm going to go to bed.

How about, "As long as the whole 'bribery thing' doesn't impair his ability to do his job, why should anybody care?"


I'm with SteveO...
I'm a little disappointed the anti-Ann harpies haven't descended on this thread like the Bubonic Plague. I may have to go over to Democratic Underground just to keep in fighting trim.

I guess though when you are just talking about the potential annihilation of U.S. armed forces at the hands of Jack "Quisling" Murtha's sellout, and the resultant destabilization of U.S. security interests at home and abroad, it's hard to get a rise out of the moonbat fringe. Now, you let the subject turn to something important, like a Feminazi's offended sensibilities, or Al Gore's latest Fallen-Sky Cataclysm - well then...

Memories
Ann makes me long for the good old days of mean, clean Tom Delay preaching total annihilation. For some reason, I have a hard time with Coulter criticizing anyone's integrity, conservative or liberal. Maybe it's the bogus footnotes.

Isn't it amazing.............
that Nancy Pelosi has thus far recommended the following for committee chairmen. A Abscam co-conspiritor, an impeached judge, and now a congressman found with 700 grand in his freezer. She is a champion of honesty and integrity in government.

Top 4 killers of Americans/warriors -now
1) OBL
2) Zarqawi
3) Sen. J.Kerry
4) Con. Jack Mytha

How many of our best would still be alive if not for numbers 3 and 4 encouraging numbers 1 and 2 (and their minions) to carry on against a country they know they could not beat without help from within ?



Kimberly is a lunatic
Nixon is not a current WH occupant and what in the world could be treasonous in Rove's job?

john murtha....
just unbelievable.... (sigh...)

When America is ready...
...to try and then execute her traitors for being, uh, well...TRAITORS, only then will she be ready to win a war again.

May jack mytha and his allies, the ones blowing up innocent Iraqi women and children by the hundreds, rot in hell for the horrors they have conspired to visit upon this earth.

All you lefties should just do the right thing and eat your magnums or at least make a pilgrimage to "religion of peace" land and offer your negotiating skills as an act of good faith before they laughingly and joyfully hack your heads from your child molesting bodies.

Piece(s) (ripped) out

loyal Dem
and Kimberly are one in the same.

BrianR & GunnyG
Brian:
You said .."Now the whole world can watch themselves make total jacka$$es of themselves.".. My concern is that the Sheeple will not see or recognize what they're looking at.

Gunny:
I believe Peloski appointed Frozen Money Jefferson to Homeland Security. You know, where he will have access to top secret information.

Kimberly Addresses Nothing As Usual
She does not address one substantive point made in this article. She just gets on and has her weekly temper tantrum against Coulter-why are you so jealous Kimberly? Yet you accuse others of never arguing facts, just hurling insults. Wow, your whole house must be made of glass.

Hey! Townhall!
How come Ann Coulters column was taken off the front page!?

Mr. Prof Re:Loyal Dem
I prefer Kimberly as Loyal Dem. Less strident, less hilleryesque, less IHaven'tBeenDoneIn3Years. The arguements make sense and address the point.

Murtha's Redeployed Brain
In 1980 Murtha demonstrated that for a few shekels he would sell out his country to the Sheiks of Araby. That stunningly sleazy episode was a window into the man's character -- and a man's character does not change over time. On this count alone he is unfit to fill any leadership role in Congress. But there's more.

Unlike character, a man's competency can change over time, and Murtha's mental state is increasingly suspect. It appears his brain has been redeployed to a distant place -- perhaps Okinawa. The man can't get in front of a camera without uttering something loopy.

Those of us with a sense of compassion would gently nudge this nattering old nutjob out of the spotlight where he could drool upon himself in relative privacy. But not the Democrats. They push him into ever greater prominence simply because he once wore a uniform, and because he is in the final and irreversible stages of Bush Derangement Syndrome.

JUST A THOUGHT
Murtha had a slip and fall lawyer, ben-veniste, with no agenda of course, to pull his considerable lard a## out of any potential jail time.

Duke Cunningham is a war hero too....
And we need to remind folks of this.
Murtha = Cunningham. End of story.

Pirate
If Murtha = Cunningham, shouldn't Murtha be tossed out of office?

YEAH, WHY DID THEY PULL HER OFF THE
FRONT PAGE?
Well, political correctness is everywhere. Why should Townhall be any different? I hope it's not that high ideal that liberals like to espouse 'because we're better than that.' Don't worry editors at Townhall. I'm sure Ms. Coulter will find something new - of the innumerable -stories of liberal/Democrat lies to write about next week.
She won't keep harping on this every day for weeks like big foot, big mouth Keith Olbermann. You know, like his nightly bleating night after night and for weeks on end about Scooter Libby, Mel Gibson, Joe 'Clown' Wilson, Valerie 'milk and two sugars, honey' Wilson and that creep from Florida. Which, coincidentally, broke only about a month before the election, and he shouted it from the rooftops.
No, Ms. Coulter just writes about the truth of liberal/Democratic doublespeak and there is so much of it out there she could write about something different from today until he!! freezes
over.

4ID, Cookie
Hey 4th, Loyal Dem is a satirist...re-read posts and yo will see!
Cookie- it did take the monkey awhile to answer,huh? But we knew she would come.Have you heard my monkey poem? It was written after GunnyG reminded me of the Screaming Monkey Syndrome...here you go:
"Screaming Monkey Syndrome" (Kimberly, et al, now- as described by GunnyG)

That is, they arrive...

they scream loudly...

flail about spectacularly...

flings poop in every direction...

and then retires to the cave...

And my poem of understanding the "Screaming Monkey Syndrome"(by Nee, revised)

See the monkeys in the cave,
all night waiting to rant and rave
Will they screech, will they scream
We know they will, but we can dream
See the monkeys in the cave,
Oooh to scream and rant and rave!

She is a peice of work...and, gee, I would love to be as naive as Kimberly and think that Murtha has changed his ways, alas, a leopard never loses his spots. They jsut can't take the truth and are willing to give "second chances" to their own slime, but as you said, we resign.

Kimberly - That's Rich!
Kimberly lambasts Coulter for bringing up the "old" and "irrelevent" news of a currently sitting Congressman negotiating a bribe - then without (moon)batting an eye, hauls up the ghost of Richard Nixon - a man who has been out of public office for more than 30 years and dead for 13!

Tehran Kim writes...
"...come up with redundant zingers for the liberals who come here daily desperately trying to break through your poor little fogged, communal brain."

"Break through our brains????"

Hey Kimmie... if you are really trying to help educate us and turn us to the Dark Side, you might try being a little less "shrill"!!

You wouldn't want anybody to accuse you of behaving just like Ann Coulter, for goodness sake!

:-)

Nee
Good post.

Kimbat definately has SMS! hahah. And HUA as well.

I wonder if she attended the moonbat convention on the Land of Fruits and Nuts. Posted it on my blog. All the limo libs were there...

Amusement
What would you folks do without Kimberly? Each and every Coulter article, she bravely sets out with her soapbox and proclaims .... well, not a whole lot of substance or originality. But, h*ll! She comes back for more! Bravo! (I can't help but crack up at most of her posts - she often leaves me scratching my head wondering if she read the piece to begin with. Be aware: this is the mentality that your modern media has successfully nurtured.)

Good stuff
Thanks for the reminders Ann. Great topic sentence: "Rumored ex-Marine, John Murtha..." In Murtha's case, "ex-Marine" fits the premise that for every rule there are exceptions. For REAL Marines, just as in the SF community, there is no such thing as an "ex-Marine." In this case however, Murtha is the exception. There is another code. The Marines do not leave their dead and wounded behind. Again, however, his tenureship as an "ex-Marine" just might qualify as that exception. As I stated on a different post (can't remember which one), I kinda' think that any Marine who served with him when he was an "ex-Marine," wish now that they would have left him behind. From where I sit, I see a man who commands NONE of the traditional Corps qualities that has exemplified the Marine Corps standards since its inception. The man is not a "comrade in arms." He should never be remembered as one in a "Dining In" or at a "Marine Corps Ball."

His actions past, the Abscam deal, and his actions currently do not meet traditional Marine Corps standards. He is underserving of any respect. Why? The answer is simple. He has proven by his actions that he lacks the integrity of character normally found in any real Marine's biography. He is not an honest man. He is a slug.

Moonbats
Off the topic-In reading these posts I notice that Kimberly has gone to moonbat status. When libs are confronted with facts they begin their shrill screeching. To be a lib means you have to feel good. As long as the intention was good then nothing else matters. Facts be damned. BTW, I'm ashamed to say I grew up in PA. Specter and Murtha are an embarrassment to Pennsylvanians everywhere. Too many of us died in Vietnam to put up with the likes of those 2

MIke
Why then do Pennsylvanian's keep electing Specter over and over and over again? He has stunk for a LONG time.

We ALL have blogs???
I note however that Kimberly does not host one on TH, nor does she refer us to her own...oh, wait - DailyKos, NewsHounds, and the Official DNC website are already on her daily feed list...

Ya know, those that are 'progressive' and 'open' to new and contradictory ideas...

Liberty
Did not Sen Specter manage to LOSE last year???

core values
I was once in another forum similar to this (not as good...in the dark early days of AOL). My bio in that forum stated "The Navy's Core Values: Honor, Courage, and Commitment. Qualities that liberals don't possess."

Kimbat disappointed me today. She didn't call W a liar, or really go off the deep end. She had to go farther away from the column than normal because she couldn't refute any of it even in her fantasy world.

Abu Ghraib?
The first I ever heard of Murtha was when he came forward with talk regarding possible questionable actions by select soldiers/commanders in Abu Ghraib. Last I knew, much of that ended up being true.

My knowledge of the man, doesn't go much beyond that, but I wanted to ask you a question.... what were your thoughts of him regarding the issue of Abu Ghraib?

Dash42
Did he? Doesn't look like it.

http://specter.senate.gov/

Kimbat is a plant!
I finally figured it out! Kimbat is actually a TH plant designed to keep us coming back. It's very simple to see if you think about it.

We are fools for even believing she was an actual person with actual "views". It is impossible for an real individual to write literally thousands of comments and never make at least one real point...or say anything that makes sense ("A thousand monkeys typing for a thousand years....")

It would literally be impossible for an individual this ignorant to make it past puberty. If she were real, she would have drowned in the tub, walked into traffic, or had some type of fatal hairdryer incident by now. Her very existence would contradict all rules of nature.

Liberty re: Abu Grab-a** & Mytha
What do I think ? I know he's a backstabbing traitor who has never said a bad word about our enemy but is always FIRST in line to lie about the American fighter.

He should be nailed to a statue of Sadaam and have his eyes plucked out by ravens before being used as torture practice for his allies in radical Islam.

Course, they would never harm one of their own...

nee/Gunny
Your diagnosis of Kim with the concrete mind (all mixed up & permanently set) was very interesting. However, in her case I think it's not SMS but the mental equivalent of MSS(monkey spanking syndrome).

wspothipshot
I can see that you don't have much of an opinion on the subject. :-) Ok, fair enough. Do you think he was wrong in exposing what was going on or do you think what was going on was even wrong?

Slipping?
Murtha is like one of those perennial nightmares, he keeps yapping and yapping until whatever batteries he has dies off. For the life of me I can not figure out how he gets reelected. I would issue a diatribe on the people of Pennsylvania but they also gave us Yuengling, so that erases some of the bad.

Ann must be slipping because it’s 08:30 on Thursday and she only has 82 comments. You recon it’s because her column is not listed with the rest of the new ones?

nee
Or as Al Gore would say, "A tiger never changes his spots." Just imagine if Quayle or Bush had said that one.

Liberty
I think we're at war and a you should ALWAYS side with your own in war.

One can deal with ones own misfits without grandstanding and telling the enema AND THE WORLD that we are divided. This man is a traitor of the highest order and should be shot for it, just as Lincoln would surely have done.

What does not the left get about those basic principals of survival ? Just as with their outrage for the enemys' truly evil acts, they are too busy attacking America to consider the consequences or even care. They must be shot after a short stay in the brig.

Liberty
Murtha didn't "expose" anything....he simply saw an opportunity to pile on....and attempted to paint a slanderous broad brush of our military.

Yay, Kimberloon posted!!!
I knew you wouldn't let me down, baby... no one does it as good as you.

SHRILL! SHRILL! SHRILL!!!

Now I can get on with my Thursday... I feel like I should be smoking a cigarette or something...

Lynne, a case of mistaken identity?
I think Kimberly must have seen someone who looks like you when she was placing her burnt offerings at the altar (excuse me, "alter") of "shrill" and "meaningless". An understandable mistake, I suppose.

Liberty - oops
i thought he had...wishful thinking perhaps. Those of us in AZ have our own idiots in the senate as well...

Scandals
I would hope that my fellow conservatives will not forget the other two "war heros", one retired from the Senate with great honor and the other a RINO now running for the presidency. Democrat John Glenn, an exceptional combat pilot and astronaut, along with presidential hopeful RINO John (straight talk) McCain were both seduced to the dark side almost immediately after being elected to congress and were both named in the "Keating Five" scandal. McCain was the only RINO out of the five who were involved. The other four were Democrats. Like ex-Marine Murtha the two "war heros" skated on the charges and like Murtha continued to be re-elected for term after term. You can fool all of the people all of the time in some cases. In the case of "war heros" we tend not to scrutinize their records too closely.

During the '60's I worked as an Aerospace Engineer and in the course of my employ was privileged to meet the early astronauts, Glenn among them. I like to say that I knew John Glenn when he was still an honest man.

Glenn has moved off the scene but McCain not only remains but is seeking the highest office in the land. The fact tha the MSM seems to love him is the prime disqualifier in my mind the same as my devotion to the principle stating that any thing the Kennedy crime family is for, I'm against.

If McCain makes the cut and, indeed, runs for president as a real Republican I would hope that honest men will remember how easily he was seduced by greed, who likes him (the MSM and a good many on the left), and scrutinize his past record closely. We will deserve what we get if we continue to allow the cloak of "war hero" to cloud our judgment and blunt our curiosity.

From one vet to another

.....May Jack Murtha spend eternity as a love toy in the Harem of Abul the bung master .....COLOSSUS

I noticed a reasoning flaw
"But Murtha was willing to trade favors in return for investment in his district -- and suggested he might take cash down the line. In other words, Murtha wasn't calling for an immediate surrender of his scruples and principles, but rather a phased withdrawal of them."

Did Murtha HAVE any principles to "immediately surrender" or "gradually withdraw"? It seems to me that he was only ONE principle (win at all costs) and NO scruples then--with no changes since!

Officer's medals

.....Brian ...

.....you are correct ...career officers always got more medals than grunts in the field ...they looked good in the personnel file and scored points towards the next promotion ...

.....Murtha was a rear eschelon desk jockey and most likely never fired a weapon in his Vietnam tour .....COLOSSUS

woohoo!
I have my weekly Kimberly fix... she said "shrill" not once, but twice. Ah, she always brings a smile to my face. At least Phylo attempts at rational thought. Kimberly just makes her fun little ad hominem attacks week after week. Seriously, is she really a monkey that the lefties have trained to type a handful of words?

Moonbats and Murtha
No some may argue that I am dredging up the past, but these same folks didn't and don't mind dredging up the past or anything else when it was or is a Republican 'flaw' they riticize.

I didn't read all the charges filed against Murtha -- the 'unindicted co-conspirator'. However, I did see some of the taped evidence just as I have seen and read the 'testimony' of John Kerry. I have also read some of the 'history' of both of these men. They were both Reserve officers at the time of the 'incidents', hence, covered under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), AND the United States Code (USC). 'Misprison of a felony' is defined in both as a criminal offense.

'Misprison of a felony' (as cited in USC Article 18, Sec. 4)says, ' "whoever having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony, cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible, make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority, under the United States, is guilty of the federal crime of Misprison of a Felony".'

To my knowledge, neither of these men were charged with this crime although both KNEW or at least 'testified', as in Kerry's case of having knowledge of crimes -- yet didn't report them.

I'll grant that not being convicted in a court of law is a presumption of innocence but that does not mean the person did not commit the act for which they were charged -- only that it was not proven or the proof was not accepted by a judge or jury. OJ Simpson and John Gotti come to mind.

It is my belief that a majority of voters elect and re-elect candidates of questionable character because that candidate offers better or bigger bribes to those voters. "Issues be damend, how much do I get?" seems to be the deciding factor in far too many elections. After all, the most successful crooks are either lawyers or have well-trained lawyers (or political connections) keeping them out of jail.

Republicans who commit gaffes are usually so pilloried by the MSM that they have little chance of winning. Sometimes, even Democrats who get someone in the MSM (or some liberal agenda group) ticked off also get 'the treatment', but more often than not, the same or even greater egregious behavior is only tantamount to 'the unforgiveable sin' if a Republican, particularly a CONSERVATIVE Republican, is the culprit.

I have never bought into the 'Well, he, she, they did it too' argument. A crook is a crook, not deserving of public office, but too often we have to choose which crook to vote for.

In my view, Kerry, Murtha and that paragon of virtue, Ted Kennedy, should all have been put behind bars. I mention this because they WEREN'T. Politicians in the Republican party have been destroyed for lesser things.








Boring
really

Abu Grab-a** & Mytha
Liberty
Why do you have that for a name? I believe that the prisoners in Abu were treated far more humane than any of our soldiers (we use uniformed people so they know what side we are on). I also believe that we should be able to use reciprical methods as our enemy. These people DO NOT care if they die as long as some one dies with them. Wussies to say the least. That being off the subject so now I say Murtha is a despicable American.
For those of you that don't know why these scum bags keep getting elected, even I can figure that out. The districts and states that they come from have more "Dependant" voters that vote than people that work. That is why all the heavily populated areas vote democrate (over crowding causes mental disorders) . They are on the dole and will not bite the hand that brings home the bacon.
If they changed the voting requirements to having a job, the democrates would lose by a landslide.

Kimberly
you know, Coulter could write "I was wrong, socialism, liberalism, and communism are the way to go. Oh, and I deserve to rot in hell." Kimberly would still make her autopilot comments, since she doesn't seem to read anything besides the first sentence.


Oops
I didn't run my post through spell-check. Sorry. I had a grand-daughter who took precedent over my line of thought.

IF I ONLY HAD A BRAIN
Cookie, You ask why Kimberly is so jealous. You've heard of p***s envy ? Kimberly has brain envy and hates Ann with a passion because Ann has what she wants.
And Kimberly you tell Lynne she makes the personal attacks when she has nothing to bring to the table yet I read in another of your posts on a different column you going so low as to attack President Bushes daughters calling them "useless".
And yes , Kimberly is a plant to keep the fires stoked and flames burning because frankly NO ONE can be that stupid. Teri

CAF
What did mcCain actually do in the Keating 5 scandal. Were they acts of omission, or commission?

11h

To Moderate
You are quite right, there is corruption on both sides of the aisle. However, how many corrupt democrats do we see drug through the press? You may see a story, briefly, then it's gone. I would love to know more about Harry Reid & Pelosi and their holdings.
This may not be news but you can bet most Americans have forgotten and need to be reminded.

So he is stupid and basically crooked
Isn't that pretty much the description of many politicians.

I just don't get it
This gleeful willingness to attack the military record of people that served that is. If you ask me, anyone who joins up in a time of war has guts; more than I have. Regardless of their reasons for joining up, John Kerry and John Murtha did serve in Vietnam and are bloody brave for doing so. The same goes for John McCain and Tom Ridge. Murtha is not a "rumoured ex-marine", he IS an ex-marine. As for picking holes in where he actually did his duty in Vietnam, well, the whole place was a war zone so it doesn't really matter. Just like Iraq is now.

Amen CAF
We do not need an RHINO for president and we do not need a "War Hero" of known questionable ethics as our candidate. Murtha may not have been convicted, but his questionable ethics were proven.

Critical Bill
When someone vouches for the integrity of the boards from which they want to build my deck, I generally take a look at the boards to see if there might be any cracks.

If Hanoi John Kerry and John Murtha just wanted to toot their own horns about what wonderful people they are, no one would give it a second thought. But they are bringing forth their military records as EVIDENCE that they should be entrusted with the safety of millions of people whom they wish to lead. It is entirely justified to take a peek behind the curtain, as it were, and in both their cases, what one sees behind the curtain is not pretty.

Two Little mistakes
Bobbit, in your last line of your post, you mentioned a sarcastic reference to Murtha being a "heor". You transposed letters. Shouldn't the "e" be at the end of the word?
And Lynn, you wrote "so murtha and Red Nancy Pelosivich will have egg on their faces soon enough." Shouldn't that be "ego" on their faces???

Fergus
I hear what you are saying but as soon as anyone tries to look into the current commander in chief's military record conservatives break into a tizzy fit. There seem to be some very clear double standards at work. Liberals war records are there to be shot down, regardless of how many purple hearts they won, whereas conservatives get a free pass regardless of what they didn't do. Geroge W Bush spent most of the 70's in a booze and (allegedly) coke-fuelled haze but hey, his record is to be trusted. It would be hilarious if it didn't stink so much.

Critical Bill
I don't see "gleeful willingness" to attack their military records.

What I DO see is the Left constantly holding Murtha and Kerry up as some kind of unimpeachable gurus on military matters... often citing their "record" as proof of unquestionable military authority & heroism.

When that happens, their records are fair game in the world of politics.

Don't YOU ever wonder why these men won't release all of their military records? If they are such "heroes", you'd think their records would just bolster their credentials, adding even more to their resumes as being "authorities" on the subject of our armed forces.

Yet they refuse to do so. Imagine if a Republican refused such scrutiny... the howls from the Left would be unrelenting.


Critical Bill
Incorrect. The only "tizzy fits" thrown were when evidence suggesting that Bush's service wass less than honorable were FABRICATED, and those fabrications were touted as truth by a major news organ, CBS.

Apart from that, Bush's military record has been an open book. In fact, Bush released his records to the media; John Kerry promised to do so, but to date has failed to honor his promise.

You have your facts a little confused.

To the left . . . .
The military serves two legitimate purposes:

1.) A jobs program for disadvantaged youth.
2.) A supply chain (aka "meals on wheels") for third-world countries.

Other than wars prosecuted from 50,000 ft and started by disgraced micreant democraticist presidents (pardon the redundancy), conflict of any kind is to be avoided at all cost. Soldiers are but innocent babes to be protected by the likes of good ol' uncle murtha. They can't be expected to be put in harms way . . . . that's not their charter.

Why, I hear soldiers all the time thanking benevolent bureaucrats like sweet daddy john for standing between them and the mean ol' republicans who just want to have them sent off to fight for BIG OIL. I mean, hell, nobody would-a signed up for this gig if they knew there was gonna be fightin' involved.

Dammit, they just signed up for all the goodies like the GI bill and all that free food and housing they were promised. We can't expect soldiers to actually stick around when the shootin' starts can we?

Don't the Republicans know that there's no cause really worth dyin' over, 'cept maybe legalized abortion and gay marriage. Oh yeah, and those crazy religious nuts down in Waco - they had to go.

Hell, I think the democratics should introduce legislation to ban guns in the military - kind of like the British police. Since soldiers will only be used to unload bags of rice and give flu shots, why would they need 'em. Guns and bombs are dangerous anyway.

Dammit, BRING OUR BOYS HOME!!!!

Primus
I certainly don't see them as "unimpeachable gurus" on all matters military but I would take their opinions more seriously than those of anyone who had had chickened out when the time came. My best friend from school was in the army for ten years; I would take his opinion on day to day military matters more seriously than my own. As far as releasing military records, yes, it is a bit odd but doesn't the US press have some way of getting hold of them through freedom of information? And yes their records are fair game I suppose but I would repeat what I said about George W Bush - is his record not fair game too? He is the current commander in chief after all. And doesn't he also refuse such scrutiny?

Critical Bill:
You are comparing apples and oranges. Both Kerry and Murtha were and are touting their "war hero" military service as the reason they should be revered and elected or reelected. That makes inquiry into the truth of their claims a valid duty of every voter.

Bush never claimed to be a hero. Bush never claimed to have fought in combat. To the best of my knowledge the only thing he may have said is he had been a pilot in the Texas Air National Guard.

To the best of my knowledge the only persons injecting Bush's service record into the lime light was the MSM and his detractors. The official record says he served honorably and completed his obligation. Could he have drilled more consistently taken another flight physical and flew more hours? Yes, but they were not required to complete the term if his contract.

Fergus
Bush's wartime record is indeed dishonourable. He got deferred into a cushy air force reserve role thanks to his daddy and hardly turned up because he was too busy having fun. If that's not dishonourable I don't know what is.

Yo, Sandman
RE: Murtha, Pride of Pennsylvania

Your point is well taken. If an elected official continues to demonstrate that he does not keep faith with his country and keeps getting elected, then logic suggests, to me also, that those constiuents who keep voting him into office are also of like mind. Whew! Scary, ain't it?

GEN
I accept what you say; but is honourable conduct in wartime down to fulfilling a contract? Perhaps it is from the point of a professional army but that is not in keeping with the spirit of acting honourably during a war, particularly when most of the kids fighting in Vietnam had no choice about "fulfilling a contract". In comparison to Bush, Kerry and Murtha ARE heroes. So are Chuck Hagel, John McCain and Tom Ridge. None of whom, incidentally, are particularly shy about touting their service.

To CB
Do you support Klinton's war record as well?

Vic
Equally shoddy but at least he spent his time playing rgby which is pretty much a rolling brawl. However, had Clinton started a war that led to more than 3000 dead soldiers (and that's just Americans), ignored the advice of his generals and generally threatened military action on everyone who disagreed with him, then I suppose his military record would have been more of an issue. But he didn't.

Critical Bill
"GEN" said it better than I could.

But as to your comment about "chickening out", I would consider anyone who totally shirked their duty, whatever branch of the service they were in, as perhaps "chickening out", but I have a very hard time with people who try to pin this label on President Bush.

One... anyone willing to train in and regularly fly a military fighter jet has more guts than most. Training missions aren't just "touch & goes"... they are dangerous. Many a fine young pilot has been killed in training.

Second... The President's reserve unit COULD have been called to serve in Viet Nam... there were no "off-limit" guarantees.

Third... As GEN stated, President Bush has NEVER touted his military experience as a qualifier for election or his military opinions.

Finally... these arguments about who is better qualified is a red herring. To follow that line of logic, nobody but Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush & Jimmy Carter are "qualified" to criticize the actions of our current President... since none of the usual suspects have ever been our nation's Chief Executive!

Officers Medals
There is no way that John Kerry could have been shot at by the enemy where he got his first Purple Heart. The only way he could have gotten that 1/4 inch of shrapnel in his arm was by shooting at the rocky coastal terrain. I was stationed several miles away on Hon Tre Island.
I also saw many Officers awarded medals that they did not earn.
Kimberly writes about the "old" and "irrevelent" news about the 1980 Abscam. What about the 1970 stories about George W Bush National Guard stories?

Critical Bill
Yeah, flying a Delta Dagger at 500+ mph is a real cushy job.

My Air Force neighbor has cleaned up a few jet crashes in his day but he said the worst was wiping up the remains of a pilot and finding the guy's face smashed across the windshield.

BTW, check my blog on the latest cave of you Brits to the Islamofascists. As I have stated in the past CB, get YOUR HOUSE in order first.

Critical Bill
I still think you are missing the point. The stories regarding President Bush's militarty service were fabrications that were reported as true by CBS. Yes he was in the Reserves. Is it is fault that his unit was not called up? I am in the National Guard. My unit was called up and will probably be called up again in the next couple of months. This does not make me a "hero" nor does it make President Bush's service dishonorable. At least he has Military service and once again as stated by others he was not the one to bring his service light.

On another note I would like to thank Mr Murtha for the opportunity of being away from my family for another 24 months instead of 18 months for train up, that is useless in the states. Six months of train up state side was worhtless. The three weeks we did in Kuwait was the best training mr or any of my soldiers had. This is because that is where the resources are and the qualified trainers.

Critical Bill
Clinton's military record?

Where? In the Soviet Army when he toured there in 1970?

Cause he D*MN SURE never served in the US military. He dodged the draft in his famous, "I loathe the military" letter.

BTW, I find that his dropping out of Oxford, shortly after getting HIS "deferment" a hoot. Just another scam by Bubba.

What the point Ann?
It appears that Murtha was involved in some corrupt dealings 27 years ago. Fine. And your point is, what? That politicians are corrupt - shocker!

Ann's article appears to be an attempt to argue that Murtha lacks credibility to speak out against the handling of the Iraq war because of the referenced investigation. I don't see the relevance of the reference other than to smear a war critic.

Or maybe you believe Ann's veiled suggestion that Murtha wants to end the war because he wants to negotiate further bribes from Arabs. I'm sure that is the case.

Ok, now we all know Murtha was involved in taudry dealings in 1980 with Arabs. This silliness can go around and around if we decided to waste our time discussing Bush and the other neocon's shady dealings with Arabs.

But who cares at this point - how about we move on to a discussion of Murtha's proposals to help end the mess in Iraq.

What is wrong with requiring that our troops entering battle be sufficiently trained and armored? We know that the new wave of uparmored humvees won't be available until summer, but Bush is sending more troops anyway. We all saw the letter to the editor by the marine father in New York asking for donations to buy body armor for the marines being deployed to Iraq. We remember the serviceman who questioned Rumsfeld about why they had to dig through scrap heaps to uparmor their vehicles and we read the reports of the Texas doctor who had to personaly lobby Congress to start buying protective headwear for the soldiers to reduce the risks of head injury,

AND we have all seen the sickening conditions that our injured soldiers have had to face at Walter Reed. Talk about supporting the troops Ann. Why don't you slap another magnet to the back of your Escalade and spend the next week digging up some dirt on another war critic. I suppose it is much easier to do that than deal with the realities of this war.

Cuba
Wasn't Bush protecting our Southern border? Cuba was a problem during the late 60's. About 5 million served during the Vietnam era and 2.5 milion served in Vietnam.

FergusMacLennan
OUTSTANDING point on verifying information. I do it for a living and when assessing a section, my first comment is, "do you have documentation to prove it...?

TRUST...but verify.

Murtha is a punk thief ....
and the people of Pennsylvania need to get rid of this Marine impersonator.

I've said it before and repeat it now, I wouldn't be surprised if Murtha REDEPLOYED receiving a bribe from the arabs and now owes his soul to them or be exposed. This guy is dirt from day one. He should be sharing a cell with those indicted during ABSCAM.

Sean
I take issue with your comments. I was there, yes we had to go through scrap heaps to better protect our vehicles. This is the type of things soldiers do. When the battlefield changes the soldiers adapt to those changes until the upper echelon leaders can get a permanent fix. The armor that we had was sufficient for the types of IED's they were using. Then the cowards changed tactics. I think the government did a hell of a job in getting new armor to us as fast as they did. By the the way you will always have soldiers cryin "We are getting screwed" it;s what Privates do.

As for your body armor story. Not ONE soldier in my Brigade of 4,000 soldiers crossed the border without it.

And head protection, come on are you kidding me. Let a soldier not have his Kevlar out side the wire. It just does not happen. No soldier went to WAR without proper protection. And if he did not have it on then that was on him and his section chief.

Don't tell me about protecting the troops. You want to protect me. Send me over there with the right to defend myself and my soldier comrades without fear of persecution from the MSM. Thats protection

Critical Bill
Your claim that National Guard service is dishonorable is highly offensive. We have National Guard fighting and dying in the Middle East right now. Bush's service (unlike Kerry's) has been an open book. It has been scrutinized under a microscope durning 2 TX gubenetorial races and 2 presidential campaigns. CBS and many other lib "news" organs had people dedicated for years to uncovering any negative information on his service, and the best they could come up with was a forged document.

I'm no military expert, but my understanding is that the mere act of flying a fighter jet, especially then, was highly dangerous. Further, there was every reason at the time to expect that he would have seen combat action. And, as others have pointed out, Bush has never touted his military service.

This sudden liberal passion for military service seems highly suspect, given their embrace of draft-dodger Bill Clinton. I doubt any of the libs yammering about Bush's Guard service voted for (legitimate) war heroes Dole or Bush Senior.

Most conservatives appreciate the service of Kerry and Murtha, regardless of motivation (i.e. Kerry's video tour as JFK wannabe). Whether their medals were deserved or not, they still deserve our thanks for their service, and they have it. However, this does not immunize them from criticism of their more recent treasonous activities. And make no mistake, they are traitors. Lincoln would have jailed them for sedition a long time ago. Kerry became a traitor back in the 70's when he began to meet illegally with our Communist enemies, and when he spewed vicious lies about our troops under oath. (many suspect that this led to a dishonorable discharge, which would explain his refusal to release his military records and the fact that he was granted an honorable discharge by Carter years later) Both are currently doing everything in their power to assure a US defeat in Iraq for their own political ends. That is what we find despicable, regardless of their prior service.

And another thing...
Where do you get that Bush ignored his generals? If anything, he relied on their judgment too long without taking charge as CinC.

And Another Thing
The reality of this War, is that we ARE in it. Regardless of whether you personally think we should or should not. And since we are in it, we should be "IN IT TO WIN IT"

JohnGalt
Your post is a classic.

Take a bow.

JohnGalt
I guess I waited too long to post my "And Another Thing" to Sean

SFC LAARNG
Thanks for your comments - you were there and I was not - so I have no reason to doubt your statements.

I understand you to state that the troops in Iraq are/were properly trained and equipped, that it is typical for soldiers to go through scrap heaps to better protect themselves, and that the "whining" comes from the privates who always complain.

If that is the case than I stand corrected, but you can see how the innumerable reports of poorly equipped troops can be very unsettling.

I am interested in your insight on the Walter Reed story and what appears to be Administrations decision to cut veterans benefits in the new budget. How are the soldiers being cared for when they return home?

Also, what do you mean when you say "Send me over there with the right to defend myself and my soldier comrades without fear of persecution from the MSM." I have not seen any attacks on the soldiers and there work in the battlefield, only universal acknowledgement that the "deciders" poorly mismanaged the war to the detriment of our military. You thoughts?

Interesting
That the libs keep recirculating the body armor talking points. Are they so bereft of ideas that they are even running out of talking points. They won't be able to keep using the body armor talking point for long, though. Both Houses of Congress are now run by the Dems. The oversite committees are thiers now. Maybe someone should tell them that.

Speaking of Murtha. It is quite fun to watch them explain what the abscam recordings. Speaker Pelosi, who promised the most ethical Congress since 1789, nominated this operator to a position of high influence and media exposure. I suppose it was a payoff to the Kozkids and Soros, but she can no longer promise ethics reform while she promotes a man who should still be sitting in a jail cell for bribery. Heck Delay wasn't even convicted of any crime, and the GOP demanded his resignation. The minute the state indictment was issued against him, Delay was persona non grata in the GOP. That is probably the biggest difference between the Democrats and the GOP. Democrats promote thier convicts, the GOP gets rid of them.

dodging service
Am I remembering wrong; didn't Clinton "forget" that he received a draft notice?

SFC LAARNG
One more thing - should we reinstitute the draft and send several hundred thousand troops to ensure that we prevail - I am not sure what that means at this point - maybe you can tell me

Sean
So.....we halt our military activities every time a new generation of equipment is created? This argument is a red herring in that it is aimed at making critical politicians appear to be concerned about the troops, whereas their only goal is to further erode our willingness to support their political opponents.

If you want to protest the war, fine. But do not do it in the guise of being concerned about armor shortgages. The fact that a new method of deflecting some IED's hasn't been installed overnight on every vehicle in Iraq is not a qualifier for the term "shortage". Improvements take time to install. You are correct in addressing Rumsfield's flippant attitude regarding the armor shortages in December 2004, but the current upgrading is not quite the same thing. Back then, the upgrades were being ignored. Now, the upgrades are being installed quickly, but cannot be performed overnight. But the politicians know troop safety is a major button for most people, and they willing to twist the facts so as to cause alarm. Alarmed people clamor to politicians for reassurance, and the politicians love this.

It is also interesting to note that Murtha is a politician that hollars about safety for the troops, while at the same time rallying the enemy with his accusations of U.S. military men being a mob of murderous thugs in Iraq. I'm not asking that you buy my message without thought, but at least be skeptical about Murtha's motivations here. Politicians manipulate people in order to maintain power, and Murtha isn't even being sly about it.

Love ya, Ann
Kep up the great work.

Uh, keep
Now enrolled in remedial spelling...

Loyal Democrat
"In the United States, we practice a philosophy whereby a person is deemed innocent of a crime until they have been proven guilty. Thus, though Murtha openly negotiated for a bribe, and fully indicated he was for sale, the lack of a successful prosecution means that he did no wrong. Murtha prostituted his ethics, but unless you are caught and convicted, no such act can be held against you.

For example, if an intruder robs a house, rapes the wife, murders the husband, and pan fries the toddler, that intruder is deemed innocent of all charges until a verdict of guilty is rendered. If the police officer forgets to read the Miranda rights, and the case is thrown out because of that, then that officially renders the intruder as being an innocent man. True, the guy did the crime, but the lack of a conviction absolves him of any responsibility for his actions.

Such is the case with Murtha. He may have drank from the cesspool, but we cannot complain about his breath because we failed to convict him of anything. Thus, Murtha is as innocent as the aforementioned intruder, and we should be willing to ignore whatever indiscretion that occurred. Instead of condemning him, we should look up to him as the epitome of the class of men that hold the majority in the House and Senate."

Two questions:

Do you really hold this standard to all politicians?

And would you really vote for a known murderer who squeked by on a technicality?

A crying shame
It really is sad that we are not allowed to prosecute traitors anymore. All we really can do is either vote for them or vote for their opponent come election day. When we vote them into office, we are saying "not guilty" by popular vote. Why would we need to prosecute anyone when the "will" of the people is already "not guilty". Case closed. Might as well remove any mention of traitorous acts from our lawbooks.

We surely don't need to be labeling people based on their traitorous actions anyway. That lowers their self esteem. The democrats understand this completely. Why can't we? Honestly! What is wrong with the conservative mind today? We want to crucify someone just because they enjoy (get off on) limiting our ability to preserve our Nation.

Come on! Where in the constitution does it say America should come first? The will of the people says otherwise anyway. Who wins? Why, the will of the people, of course.

Kimberly: Speaking of Lame
Man TK I missed you. I gave up waiting for you at 11PM and you post at 11:37 so thank you for finaly posting - speaking of lame. I have been lost without you. This libdolt thing requires a lot of revising of history, deletion and invention of facts and evidence, and a lot of illogical thought patterns - and that is still so hard for me. As always, I am confused and need clarification from you so my fledgling little libdrool brain can process the info and understand the way of the lib properly Oh Brilliant One:

Question: Are you saying that Coulter voting in the wrong precinct - errrr… committing voter fraud - is just as bad as Murtha being willing to accept bribes in ABSCAM or that it is even worse? If so thank you for pointing it out to me. I have trouble finding the correct polling place every year but at least I am not a lawbreaking felon like her! You are right – she s*cks!

I am also glad to learn from you that any hint of possible bribery acceptance in the past of a Congressman who is currently the ranking member of the House Appropriations Committee and the Subcommittee on Defense is irrelevant. Before reading your words of wisdom I would have thought that to be at least somewhat important. But I am such a fool. It’s good to know that even though his actions and votes could be influenced by money from those supporting the enemy in the WOT, I shouldn’t worry about that or have any concerns about it at all. Thank you for taking that load off of my mind and replacing it with a load of something else (rhymes with hit). You da bomb!

And thanks for reminding me that even if you do something illegal, if they don’t catch you and subsequently convict you – well then it simply doesn’t count. I am sure God will be glad to hear that too – I am sure He was worried as well. After all He can’t be everywhere can He Kim? If the referree doesn't see it it's not a foul right? I was worried after seeing that video tape of Murtha many times that he was caught red-handed selling is votes but now I know that’s not the case and he gets a do-over. I also had heard that ABSCAM investigation was blown by the MSM when they found out about and exposed it. I know from you because since you never mentioned it so that means that little fact is irrelevant too. Had it been relevant certainly you would have mentioned it. I was wondering Oh Most Knowledgeable One: If the FBI/CIA had been trying to catch Republicans alone do you think they would have ever treated that story like the phone tapping of terrorists deal? As a good libtard I probably should not ask that huh? Just curious.

And before you informed me I never knew that Nixon, Cheney, Bush, and Rove had all been convicted of something before. That MSM is covering up bad info on Republicans again! Apparently you have access to information the rest of the world lacks because of them. I stupidly thought Nixon had resigned to avoid impeachment and was pardoned and immunized from prosecution by Gerald Ford. Now I need to learn how that history can be revised so as to be considered a conviction by libdrools so I can do it to those dastardly Republicans in my screeds too. I know that libtards live for the day that the other guys you mentioned are convicted of something – anything, but I didn’t know they already had been. Again TK you show your great powers by knowing things that seem to have no basis in fact and only you alone are aware of. You are so powerful!

And I see the wisdom of your ways: It is more important to back the GOP into a corner than it is to protect the troops and the millions of Iraqis who wanted freedom and some form of democracy. What better way for a Dimocrat to “support the troops” than to make it difficult for them to do their jobs. And I see that even though we saved the Iraqi citizens from the blood and death of one tyrant we shouldn’t worry anymore about them and the possibility of more blood and death being heaped upon them by mullahs from next door or those nutty al Qaeda guys. The embarrassment of GWB and the USA is the most important thing for any libdrool isn’t it? Wow when you explain it to me it just makes so much sense! You are omnipotent!

And one last question Oh Exalted One: is “shrinking epithets” the same as being shrill? Just wondering because I’ve read your post numerous times and can’t find “shrill” in there anywhere.

I will as always eagerly await your response. Thanks for coming.

Sean
As a soldier in the National Guard our soldiers who came home injured were sent to Walter Reed initially and then the soldiers were returned home and were able to seek care from Civilian Doctors, paid for by the US Government. So I personnaly can comment on "Walter Reed" as I have no basis for any comment that I might make.

I don't recall posting anything about a draft. But my personal beliefs are that we should have at least 2 years of Mandatory Military Service for every Male citizen. And i think we should send over a hundred thousand more troops to wipe the insurgents out.

As for fear of persecution from the MSM. We had an incident while we were there regarding an Italian journalist. You might have read about it. She was supposedly kidnapped and upon being rescued was returning to Camp Liberty. We and every other unit post signs in Arabic and English and just graphics for those who cannot read in Arabic or English alerting civilians that there will be a roadblock withing 400 meters and then 200 meters. The signs state that you should slow down and be prepared to stop. At 100 meters we shine lights on you if you are not slowing down, at 50 meters we fire a warning shot and at 25 meters you are forced to make a decision while the vehicle is barreling at you. Do you shoot to kill or do you take a chance that the oncoming vehicle is not loaded with IED's. Knowing that the vehicle has disregarded all warnings and still coming at full speed. Well we shot and killed her bodyguard. As a result the American press was all over us as well as the Italian government. Eventually we were proved to be in the right, but the harasment that the soldiers had to go through was enough to make one soldier wait too long the next time out and he did not make it back. So that is what I mean by Fear of Persecution.

Hit them with the truth, VP Cheney
Digest this Traitor-Crats
"I think if we were to do what Speaker Pelosi and Congressman Murtha are suggesting, all we will do is validate the al-Qaida strategy. The al-Qaida strategy is to break the will of the American people ... try to persuade us to throw in the towel and come home, and then they win because we quit." -- Dick Cheney

How did Murtha stay all this time?
When he was caught red-handed (on videotape, no less) in a corrupt deal in 1980, he's still in Congress after 27 years?

Even in my native India, pols have rarely been able to brazen through THAT long AFTER being caught taking bribes -- and most have been disgraced-and-dropped far sooner (I haven't even yet heard of one being VIDEOTAPED demanding heftier bribes, and then staying in office).

SFC, Sawgunner, VA Patriot
SFC...I ahve been saying the same thig about the armor issued for a few days...seems the left-minded thinkers swallow everything without question and then, when hearing things firsthand, say from you or Sawguuner,they don't believe it! Take heart,maybe you helped poor Sean.

Sawgunner, if ony I could learn to close my eyes when the K-monkey posts. I take my hat off to you, again, for keeping it sane. I just can't let her call any troops names and then hear her say she "supports" the troops yet question their service.
VA Patriot...Loyal Democrat is a satirist. He is great at illlustrating the absurdity of the way the left thinks. Just give it another read.

Loyal Democrat
You are correct that Murtha is innocent unless proven guilty, though I suppose that is in a strictly legal sense. OJ Simpson was prven innocent legally yet there is something in the back of our minds that warns us against giving him a moral verdict of innocent.

It is tempting to fall into the "herd" mentality oft displayed by the left when any whiff of a scam on any prominant conservative is in the air to pronounce guilt; the moonbats are still declaring Bush guilty of treason and abrogating the constitution with no proof "legally".

I suppose it will always be this way with political expediency and the power of perception is reality. One is guilty until proven liberal in this country when it comes to politics.

leftismkiller
Or for that matter, how about Tom Delay? To hear a leftist tell it, Delay's name has become synonymous with Congressional corruption, and yet the indictment on him took THREE TRIES, and the eventual indictment they *did* get was for something that wasn't even a crime when he supposedly did it!!!

Lefties create new benchmarks all the time for prosecutorial misconduct, then scream and shout when their folks actually get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, the cash in the freezer, their face on the FBI surveillance camera, you name it.

SFC LAARNG
That's what I don't understand about Bush's surge proposal. Why such a small number of troops. We are in the war now (we can always debate whether it was right in the first place) but why not overpower them and win the thing.

what would you propose doing about Iraq? it appears that we are just spinning our wheels over there.

And Nee, I don't appreciate the "poor" adjective. You don't know anything about me

Sean
You don't get Ann's point? This Murtha guy is the ranking member of the House Appropriations Committee and the Subcommittee on Defense making decisions on funding the military (which happens to be involved in fighting against Arab/Muslim terrorists right now, and you don't see a problem with his soliciting bribes/favors from other Arab/Muslim interests in the past? Huh? Is this really Kimberly?

Gunny
I'm going to take a little heat on this, so I would at least ask the Gunny and Brian, along with a couple others, to hear me out.

I always felt a little uneasy listening to people snipe at Kerry about his record. I wasn't in his AO with him, so I don't know. There were those who were, some had one story, others had another, but me I can't say what happened. Same with Murtha. Now that being said both of their records since then are nothing to be proud of. Now if we're dealing with some nose-picker who goes down to the local pawn shop and makes himself a tin star hero, well we've got another issue.

Murtha got caught with his hand in the cookie jar (ABSCAM), his only defense was he didn't have enough time to grab a cookie.

John Boy comes home and wizzes all over the rest of us in front of congress. Real stand up guy. Either he is a self confessed war criminal or a liar. Given his testimony those are his only two choices.

When it comes to a mans time spent in service it don't matter if he was an Audie Murphy or some cleric in a supply depot the saying applies,
"Some gave all; All gave some"

Virginia Daddy
Loyal Democrat is the world's best liberal impersonator and all of his posts are written with tougue firmly implanted in cheek.

Liberty
Abu Ghraib was what, a mass hazing incident? I don't care if they made these thugs eat pork; they weren't combattants protected by the Geneva Convention. They should have been shot on the spot for partaking in guerilla warfare.

And what did happen? We cashiered the people involved. So, what's your point? Murtha is suddenly a beacon of light for speaking out on this? This makes him a hero? It makes him an opportunist at best.

A Real Hero
Those who compare Murtha to a Real Hero, Randy Duke Cunningham are terribly misguided and should consider the facts before making such a judgment. Murtha is underminding and demorlizing our troops with his advocation of CUT AND RUN, and proposing to deny reinforcements to our Military. These actions amount to giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy.

Duke Cunningham was one of two Aces that the Navy produced in Vietnam. He shot down five MiGs, three in one day. One of the those shot down was a North Vietnamese pilot (Double Ace+3)with 13 American Kills.

Duke Cunningham did admit to taking bribes as a congressman. However, the bribes that he took is a pittance compared to the astronomical amounts of millions of Dollars and lives, limbs, and body parts he is credited with saving.

Dukes action alone convinced the North Vietnamese Military not to contest US Air superiorty in Vietnam. Without Cunninghams heroic action, the North Vietnamese would have surely bombed our military bases, killing and maiming our troops while destroying billions of dollars in structures and equipment.

Yes he did wrong in accepting bribes as a congressman, but he certainly has not given aid and comfort to the enemy.

Even in his disgrace, Murtha and et al, are not fit to be in the same room with a hero like Duke Cunningham.

Critical Bill
CONGRATULATIONS!
YOU WIN the-first-lib-to-use-the-republicans-did-it-first-excuse today.
As always, I bow to your deep wisdom.
Gunny beat me to th punch but I was one of those cowards in the USAF during Vietnam. One of the worst days of my life was going with the Chaplin and Commanding officer to tell a wife her husband died. Service in a Delta Wing was just a playboy's holiday.

liberty and kimbats
murtha did not expose abu ghraib, he used it.

it was already being prosecuted by the military.

now if we would simply have prosecuted the murderer kennedy, and the bribery receipient murtha, and the fraud using biden, and the petty thief jefferson, and the loan fraud chinese bribery recipient clintons, and the wing nut insane pelosi we could claim some equity in the political process ...... but when mental midgets like kimberly claim ann, or repubs represent a culture of corruption you just gotta laugh out loud at how stupid people can be. ....but what can you expect from idiots that believe in global warming, that crime is caused by poverty, that public schools provide education, that taking money from the successful helps the poor ....etc etc..... their entire existence is fantasy....why should their posts be different...... hey kim .....haliburton ....BOO!

To 'Loyal Democrat'
You got me. I only peruse the posts periodically (I am also proud as punch to be able to comment on the nattling nabobs of negativism). The first couple times I saw your posts I figured that you had the logical analytical abilities of a dead earthworm.

After reading your third post (Ok, I'm a bit slow on the uptake) I finally realized that you are a master of your art. You do an EXECELLENT job of showing the obsurdity of their viewpoint.

Keep it up... I need and appreciate your humor.

Critical Bill
Bush's service record is public record, you just have to critically think long enough to find it. Bush didn't get the pass you refer to, but he didn't do any of the things charged against him either. As far as booze and coke, well, you don't log as many flight hours as he did and be high all the time.

And being in the guard is not a free pass from the war zone, many units served in Viet Nam when they were called up.

but how much we DO NOT know
IF that bribe is a tip of an iceberg, the iceberg will sink us...

Kimbat
is apparently suffering from decreased mental capacity brought on by extended periods of self-medication. Though entertaining, I have to wonder whether she's simply some pre-pubescent harpie taking time off from her web-cam pay-per-view site to drop by and enlighten us with her shallow thoughts; or, is she some haggard old hippie whose acid days have forever mired her in a never-ending loop of childish delusions. Oh well, I guess we'll never know. Maybe we should just be thankful that we have Kimbat around to perpetuate the awareness of the tragedy that is mental illness. Be brave Kimbat. Be STRONG!