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Wednesday, January 31, 2007
Ann Coulter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Free the Fitzgerald One!
by Ann Coulter
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Conservatives often ask why so many Republicans go native when they get to Washington, D.C. The answer is: Because you don't defend them when they come under relentless attacks from liberal hatchet men.

Lewis Libby did what you wanted. He didn't place secret phone calls to reporters revealing classified intelligence programs. He supported the war on Islamic fascists. He didn't try to raise your taxes like James Baker III. And he has loyally served Dick Cheney, the man conservatives secretly wish were president.

And now he's on trial for -- at worst -- misremembering who first told him that future reality show contestant Joseph Wilson was sent on a boondoggle to Niger by his wife, Valerie Plame.

The way Libby remembered it, NBC's Tim Russert was the first one to tell him. But the way Russert remembers it, he didn't tell Libby about Wilson's wife. (And the way Wilson remembers it, he was sent to Niger by Captain Kirk of the Starship Enterprise.)

Try this: Who told you Wilson was sent to Niger by his wife? Who told you a bipartisan Senate panel concluded that Joe Wilson was lying when he denied that his wife had sent him to Niger? While we're at it, who was the first person to correct you on your pronunciation of "Niger"?

I don't remember, either -- and I'm not running a war.

The exact same people who are now demanding prison for Libby for not remembering who told him about Plame are the ones who told us it was perfectly plausible for Bill Clinton to forget that Monica Lewinsky repeatedly performed oral sex on him in the Oval Office. Even if chubby Jewish brunettes aren't your type, be honest: Which of the two events would stand out more in your memory?

Perjury is intentionally swearing to something you know to be untrue -- not misremembering what later appears, on balance, not to be the truth.

Here are some simple illustrations. If Clinton had been asked how many sexual encounters it took for him to remember Monica's name (six) and he got the answer wrong, it would not be perjury since, like Monica's name, it's an easy thing to forget.

If Clinton had been asked whether he talked to Rep. Jim Chapman and then to Rep. John Tanner, or to Rep. Tanner and then to Rep. Chapman while Monica was performing oral sex on him in the Oval Office and he got the answer wrong, that would not be perjury because it's not relevant to the investigation. (Correct answer: Chapman, then Tanner.)

But when Clinton was asked under oath -- in a case brought by Paula Jones under the law liberals consider more sacrosanct than any passed in the 20th century, Section 1983 of the Civil Rights Act: "Mr. President ... at any time were you and Monica Lewinsky alone together in the Oval Office?" and he answered, "I don't recall," that was perjury.

Now take the question: "Who first told you fantasist Wilson was sent to Niger by his wife?" Unless it actually was Captain Kirk of the Starship Enterprise -- the answer to that question is not going to be perjurious. No matter how many witnesses swear they told Libby first, if Libby honestly believed it was Russert, he didn't commit perjury.

So why is there a trial? Because there is no penalty for using the threat of imprisonment as a political weapon against conservatives. Ask Tom DeLay or Rush Limbaugh.

If Libby were a Democrat, we would know the sexual proclivities of everyone in Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's office, Judith Miller would be portrayed as a "stalker," Tim Russert's cat would be dead, and the public would know about every toupee at MSNBC.

Republicans don't have to kill cats to bestir themselves to defend their own from rank partisan persecution. But it never happens.

People who attack conservatives never have to worry about their own dirty laundry coming out. All they have to worry about is whether People magazine will use a good picture of them in its "Sexiest Man Alive" issue.

When Secret Service officers innocently told Monica she couldn't see Clinton because Eleanor Mondale was "visiting" the president, Bill Clinton immediately threatened to fire the officers responsible. (They say Clinton was so mad it took him an extra couple of minutes to "finish off" in the sink.)

Compare that to how the Bush administration treats an employee caught actually violating a citizen's rights. An officer with Bush's own customs office held Rush Limbaugh for three hours at a private airport, mauling his belongings and calling in his Viagra prescription to the media before he had left the airport. We don't even know her name.

No one has bothered to investigate what prescriptions she takes or whether she has any angry relatives willing to badmouth her. She certainly has not been fired for this egregious violation of an American citizen's rights. No worries -- it was just a conservative.

You want to protect the borders, cut taxes, fight Islamic fascists and put up Ten Commandments monuments? Get her name. Find out about Patrick Fitzgerald what we'd know if he were Ken Starr. If you won't defend your own champions, conservatives, then don't sit back and wonder why so few people want to be your champions.

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About The Author
Ann Coulter is a columnist and author of Guilty: Liberal Victims and Their Assault On America.
 
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Sic 'em, Ann
Slackers all!

Excellent column Ann.
Another more recent example is the Sandy Berger incident. It seems to me that the Liberals have control of the Justice Department, the CIA, the Courts and of course the media. So just what can a voter do, other then working to support conservatives locally in the hope they don’t go native if they are elected to Federal office? I write my Senators 2-3 times a week. They usually answer and for the most part agree with my views, but nothing ever changes. If someone like Rush, with his resources, won’t fight them then there is little the private citizen can do without a strong leader in Washington. All we get are excuses and the same old losers.

Higher Standards
I think it should be stated right off the bat that we conservatives hold our champions/leaders to higher standards than liberals do. That said, I can't disagree that Libby has been more or less thrown overboard by those who should be supporting him through this egregious miscarriage of justice (i.e., a witch-hunt). If convicted, he should be pardoned by President Bush, but I don't think that will happen.

On the other hand, we should not target Patrick Fitzgerald with the same vicious types of attacks that were leveled against Kenneth Starr. As I said, we hold our own people to higher standards, not to mention that two wrongs do not make a right. Patrick Fitzgerald is guilty of terrible judgment in this case - his investigation should have been dropped as soon as Armitage told Fitzgerald that he had inadvertently told the media that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA - but that does not justify us using the same dirty tactics that are favored by too many on the left.

Do the right thing
There are people around the world tonight who are being tortured for their faith. Let's do the right thing, regardless of whether others agree with or defend us. That is the hope of America.

Old Air Force saying
In advance of all the moonbats who are sure to contribute their feelings about Ann's latest offering ("shrill!", "ugly!", "Adam's apple!", "hateful and lacking substance", and so on), I pre-emptively offer a bit of Air Force wisdom I heard somewhere:

"If they're shooting at you, that means you're over the target."

Fire away, moonbats.

(Note to Kimberloon: Don't forget to call her "shrill"!)

ruth--what is the rigth thing to do?
tell me

Dear Petrovian
The thing you know is right to do, do it. It may be being a champion in a thankless cause. It may be defending someone who is putting their reputation on the line for a thankless cause. It may be just spending time with your children.

Can anyone say WITCH HUNT?
End this .. NOW!

Champions
You're right. But I'm not sure HOW to do the things liberals do. Should I know?

Show Trial
Why do the words Soviet show trial keep coming to mind?

From the beginning this was an effort to get Karl Rove, and maybe even Dick Cheney. The leftys had a dream of seeing Karl Rove frog marched off to Jail.
Just the other day Randi Rhodes on Air America was still pontificating about that very scenario. (the poor dear must not have heard the 'latest' inolving Richard Armitage.)
Having failed at the Rove mission the Fitzgerald team is now establishing standards for future show trials that the Democrat party will generate with their congressional investigations.
The left just can't resist going back to the 90's agenda of personal destruction. In this case that unfortunate person is Scooter Libby.

Tax dollars at work
Again, another high dollar investigation to discover nothing. And again, speculation from every news agency about the outcome. What a joke. The worst part is these guys get paid from the American people. A full scale revolt is needed. Start with the congress, 535 pink slips, then fire everybody at the CIA, the Pentagon, the State department, and the Justice department. Ditch all of the slip and fall lawyers next, ship em' to France or some other commie pile of country. Then require an inteligence test before allowing poeple to vote.

What can *I* do?
Seriously. I'm not a private investigator. I see the glaring double standard, but not how ordinary people can do anything about it.

Get over it
This trial is not about a president lying. What Bill Clinton did or did not do has no bearing on this trial. It is about what Libby did or did not do.

It is apparent that when there is no defense for a Republican failure, "Bill Clinton did..." comes out of every neocon typewriter rather than addressing the problem. It is no wonder that a when representative was grooming pages for molestation, the political hierarchy shouted "25 years ago the dems did..." It is not about what happened 25 years ago; it is not what happened 10 years ago; It is about what happened in this administration 4 years ago.

Ever wonder why some people
flail so wildly at any attempt to put current events in context?

Situational ethics, moral relativism, ends justify the means..... thy name is "liberal."


Re: Lynne
I'm not lawyer either, but I do recall that President Ford pardoned Nixon for any and all crimes that he MAY have committed in relation to the Watergate scandal. Nixon had not been charged nor convicted of anything at that moment, although he had been under the threat of impeachment by the House when he resigned.

Excellent Ann!
And on target as FergusMaclennan states. Now this forum will begin to look like Iraq, with the Moonbats firing blindly into the darkness.

The Libby trial
is a farce. This trial should not even be taking place. I would like to know how anyone is supposed to remember who said what in DC. The place is a rampant, rumor mongering, black hole.

We all know who supposedly "outed" Valerie Plame, Richard Armitage. To me that was the end of a non story, other than for a prosecutor to delve out political punishment to a conservative administration.



Re: Bleeding Heart Liberal
You are correct in stating that this trial has nothing to do with Clinton. But then, you've obviously missed the point of Ann's column, because Ann never claimed it did. Ann is commenting on the media's coverage of the trial and on the behavior of the left and the right in relation to Libby and his trial. She contrasts that coverage and behavior with a similar situation: Bill Clinton's perjury. That's a valid comparison, as Ann clearly shows in her piece.

To repeat: This column is about media coverage and behavior by the left and right, NOT about the trial itself. Ann's comments about the trial are only to provide context for her larger thesis.

The story is not "what happened in this administration 4 years ago." As you MUST know by now, the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 clearly did not apply in this case because Valerie Plame had not been a covert agent within five years of her alleged outing. So no one "in the administration" did anything illegal "4 years ago" in relation to Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson. THE TRIAL is about what happened very recently during Fitzgerald's investigation. THE STORY, i.e., Ann's column is about... OK, just read my first two paragraphs again.

Republican Affair
Not to rain on anybody's parade, but all the actors in this from Fitzgerald to the President are, taa daa, Republicans.

Even the Judge.

If Plame was truly not under-cover as has been stated in many conservative venues, then why did Bush get so upset about it.

Bush still calls it a leak. If she wasn't undercover, who gave Bush the wrong idea?

No doubt, the Democrats are cheering on the Republican self-destruction here. But let's call a spade-a-spade. If Plame truly was not undercover, then why did Bush call the investigation?

Something is fishy.

Re: Lynne
I agree that it needs to play out before a pardon would be issued because the you-know-who would jump all over him for "trying to cover up." But if Libby were to be convicted, Bush could (and should) simply say that he had been confident the jury would find him not guilty because it was so obviously true, but that unfortunately Libby got an OJ jury that convicted him solely based on political reasons. Therefore, in the interest of justice, he had to pardon Libby. You know, the way Clinton pardoned all those REAL CRIMINALS during his last few days in office... (just for you, Bleeding Heart)

Re: drivebyposting
You evidently got one of Ann's main points: The President and other prominent Republicans should be standing behind Libby as he faces these phony charges. I haven't read any conservatives in this forum say that Bush has handled the situation well. Personally, I think Bush just takes some bad advice. We've seen him too often treat his own supporters worse than he treats his enemies, and I think it usually has to do with his advisors' desire for media approval (and avoid accusations of a cover up). He also might have wanted to show his support for the CIA and the safety of its agents - i.e., calling for an investigation is just being thorough with a POTENTIALLY serious matter.

Now, if you're trying to claim that Plame was actually a covert agent within five years of her supposed "outing," then you should have at least some shred of supporting evidence. Simply asking why Bush called for an investigation does not support the conclusion that she must have been covert. (I gave a perfectly reasonable explanation above.) In fact, no one, including Plame herself, has publicly claimed she had been a covert agent within five years of the "outing" by Richard Armitage.

Maybe it's all a conspiracy to hide the fact that Plame is still a covert agent who has infiltrated a space aliens spy network. Of course, all the evidence points away from that conclusion and towards the simplist one, but I choose to believe in the less plausible scenario because I just hate that #$& %^*@ Bush so much!

Re: Drivebyposting
"If Plame was truly not under-cover as has been stated in many conservative venues, then why did Bush get so upset about it."

The answer is simple. Bush tried to avoid even the appearance of wrong-doing.

When Libby was indicted, the left reminded Bush that he promised to suspend anyone who was under indictment, a higher standard than the Democrats. So Bush suspended Libby and started the investigation in an attempt to minimize potential scandal damage.

Of course, that didn't matter to the left, who have held on to this like a bulldog with a bone.

City of Liars
Ann calls for the conservatives to step up and defend their own, as they should. As I see it, both sides of the aisle talk out of both sides of their (ir)respective mouths. In the City of Liars, you are a fool to trust anyone elected, and/or anyone who has a vested interest in seeing them re-elected. That pretty much implies everyone in the entire bureaucracy supposedly representing the individuals and the states of these United States of America.

Lestat writes:..............
....."..I think Bush just takes some bad advice."
That statement needs to be repeated about ten times a minute for the next two years!!!!!!!!

Kimberly writes: ,...I see.
.... Well, I don't know what it saw, but whatever it was it wasn't Ann's column. Obviously from all the verbiage it saw something else. Kimberlybat is so puffed up in this post one would think she'd taken Monica's place.

Nixon was NOT impeached!!!!

> Nixon had not been charged nor convicted of
> anything at that moment, although he had been
> under the threat of impeachment by the House
> when he resigned.

This is something that most history teachers miss - Nixon was NOT impeached and while one could speculate that the House would have done so, they hadn't.

Next question: who are the two Presidents who *were* impeached? And what party did they belong to?

Answer: Andrew Johnson (D) and William Clinton (D) -- both were not convicted by the Senate but WERE impeached.

Indict Plame
It is a violation of something for CIA folk to go talking about what they are doing and it is a criminal offense for anyone to blow an agent's cover and where, exactly, does it exempt the agent herself from blowing her own cover?

She has been admitting that she was CIA and why, exactly, isn't that criminal? If the mere fact that she is CIA is a secret, and she is revealing it (even if only confirming it) then she is revealing secrets. And if we are going to go prosecute these sorts of things, why not her????

My tie is red, the left is blue, I'm the
GOP, and I hate me too!

I getcha Ms. Coulter but let us not forget the cannibalism, (see: "The Border Two Few" -Tried and convicted of protecting us from scum) not to mention the seemingly countless awards ceremonies "For those about to stab,
Me in my back" held by the enabler in chief himself,George "No,that's okay,I'll bend myself over this log so that you may gain easier entry" Bush.

Just a little "2spot-ism" here: Suicide is easy...when every chamber has a full load.

Indeed

Perhaps it was a mistake to persue the
case against President Clinton while he was still in the White House, in spite of the fact that the charges were legitimate.

Perhaps this is part of the reason why the Libsters have such a rabid, irrational hatred of George Bush; not because of any thing he did, but because our side went after their guy.

But Scooter Libby does not deserve to take the fall in these political machinations.

I wish the Libs would just take a chill pill.

They won the election already; why are their knickers still in a knot?

Tehran Kim
Your post goes over the top this time with the screeching rant of a hyena. Talk about rage!! Your post is one huge screaming temper tantrum.
Drink your milk and sleep well.

Peppermint
And all. This is off subject but I felt it important. The prosecutor Johnny Sutton, in the border guard case. Is accused of hiding evidence and trying to cover up a second bust of the drug dealer.
Check it out here.

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54044

Compassionate Conservatism
we don't fight back, we eat our own, we go to bed with Teddy K and the no child left behind instead of disbanding the DOE; Sandy Berger is laughing all the way to another National Security job for Shrillery in 08; the list goes on ad infinitum.. is it any wonder I've been ill since Nov? (diagnosis: malaise) My only conclusion is that President Bush is a liberal sheep in conservative wolf clothing. The 2 border guards doing time pushed me over the edge.

is Bush a hostage?
Ann is right again. As a matter of fact, it is painful to realize how right she is in that we conservatives are only too willing to throw our own under the bus. Bush has been a major disappointment because he hasn't been the conservative he campaigned as. Is it possible that all those FBI files the Clintons didn't know were in the White House basement and didn't read (HONEST!!!) have info, if not on Bush then on members of his adminstration, that would be more embarassing to Bush than acting the fool he has become? Not that I would ever accuse Dems of blackmail or anything.

Peppermint
Great post to Tehran Kim!

And I think FergusMacLennan's preemptive strike DID save us from the usual "shrill" word Kimmy so often repeats on Ann's & Michelle Malkin's columns.

(Note to Tehran Kim: For an accurate definition of "shrill", please go to YouTube and watch/listen to some of Hillary's speaches to her choir!)

Clintons...UGH
Ann, If U can...I saw Hillarys legs.. Do U know what she did with the rest of the piano.?And, is it true that daughter Chelse played the part of the groundhog in Bill Murrays pic " Groundhog Day".?.give eem hell..!!

Mountain Rose

The answer to your question."Why are their
knickers still in a knot?" 2008

New word to lexicon
In the tradition of making new words from a person's name (e.g. "Borked"), I would say that Scooter Libby is being "Nifonged".

I can't wait...
I can't wait until we find out that Tim Russert is ly.... uhh, mistaken.

Scott in PA
That is correct and the correct action now is the same as Nifong, charge Fitzgerald with prosecutorial misconduct and put the clown in jail. He knew very early in his investigation that Libby, Chenney, Bush, ETAL were not the source of the "non-leak" and yet went after Libby like a dog after a juicy bone. At minimum, he should lose his license to "practice" law and be dis-barred permenantly. Fitzgerald's "practice" has certainly not resulted in perfect, because only perfect pratice makes perfect.

Fergus,Lestat,Peppermint
Fergus...Great pre-emptive(uh-oh, did I say that out loud?!!)strike on the screeching monkey. Yesterday and the day before, I asked her to try and use synonyms, but maybe she didin't know what that meant...then I told mentioned that I was trying to improve my vocabulary...but the pre-emptive strike worked. Wanna go and fight some more liberal thinkers? :)
Lestat...nice reply to ol Bleeding heart...you know he?she still has those rose-colored glasses on.
Peppermint...isn't it funny how other people and their descriptions of screeching monkeys are making their way around? Ya gotta love it.
Once again, the left thinkers(see,one can use synonyms to describe the lunatic left)are reading things not there,but our rational posters here are capable of making those distinctions....

I am confident that Libby will scoot
past Fitzgerald. I fear his plight if it is ever proven that he played LaCrosse.

Lestat
I don't know about the rest of conservative America, but if I were in Bush's shoes I would immediately pardon Libby and FIRE Fitzgerald.

Any prosecutor that would carry on an investigaion for nearly two full years after he learned the answer to his question is guilty of malfeasance and incompetence.

The idea that the top officials in the Executive branch were being relentlessly pestered about this trifle in the middle of a war is beyond outrageous.

All of this is above and beyond the fact that the prosecution of Libby does nothing other than give the left another excuse to bash the war and the administration.

If there was a crime (and Lynne's post pretty much dispels that notion) it was Armitage, not Libby, who committed it. And if Libby lied to a grand jury while under subpoena for an investigation into a crime that had already been solved, or a non-crime, the culprit is not Libby even if he flat out lied.

Guys like Fitzgerald need to be taught that a subpoena is for serious prosecutors conducting serious investigations, not for political wannabes who want to use a non-crime as a career opportunity.

And Coulter's point is at least partly that a true conservative Prez would have put a stop to this nonsense long before it got to a criminal trial for his VP's Chief of Staff.


Pirate
Small correction for ya....President Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln and was impeached, but not convicted, was a Republican. The other Republicans impeached him because he was not being as hard on former Confederates as a lot of Yankees wanted him to be. He was a 'compassionate' President and ws trying to bring the nation back together with less hard feelings.

Primus, nee
Say what you want, but I'm halfway disappointed.

I mean sure, Kimberloon's post DID contain all the usual venom and bile, as well as all the usual dearth of simple things like logic... so it wasn't a TOTAL disappointment.

But darn it! I wanted some "shrill" in the morning! It's better than coffee!

Reps do not get the bye when it
comes to pardons, Wise One. The MSM would lick its chops if Bush pardoned Libby and fired Fitz. That act would 'prove' that a crime had been committed and it would be in the headlines right thru the next election.

The best thing Bush could do is to appoint a different federal prosecutor to investigate Armitage, Plame, Miller and Russert. THAT would be the end of it all. The libs and the MSM do not want this to end cleanly.

Secret "Agent" Valerie Plame
What utter rubbish. Valerie Plame was nothing more than a paper pushing civil servant whose only secret was that she was getting paid a lot of money for doing nothing. Who gives a damn anyway? As for Clinton, one only has to look at the flaccid, squint-eyed old crone he has for a wife to understand why a chubby Jewish girl looks to be a more attractive (or the sink for that matter)object of his "affection". What the justice department ought to doing is performing the agreed-upon lie detector test for the traitorous Sandy Berger. As for our “conservative” representatives in Congress; act like a conservative and I’ll support you but if you get in bed with Kennedy and his ilk, I’m done with you.

Kimbat off her meds (again)
She can write, although poorly, she just can't read, or she can read, just can't comprehend. It doesn't get any easier than this, Kim. Simple. straightforward, and to the point. If you can't read the column without distorting the message, the case is clear: you are most definitely an incurable leftist moonbat. No hope for you.

Mountainrose has it right
All this vitriolic rhetoric coming from the Dems is about the impeachment of their God...their hero...the omniscient one......Bill Clinton. I think they understand that there is not likely to be anyone else lower (Ted Kennedy will never be elected president) so they must bring everyone else down to Clinton's level in order to, by comparison, exonerate, or at least justify their rabid support of Clinton.

My personal desire is to throw every incumbent out of office and start over with a clean sheet
and repeat the process every election cycle.










The GOP
The "Good Ole Party" is turning into the "Crap All Over Me Party" and it's painful (not to mention dangerous) to see.

Ann is SOOOOOOOOOOOO right about this Libby trial and EVERYBODY (even the sane Dems) know it, and yet here it is going on..amazing. Only in this upside-down world that we're in now.

Note to GW: Mr Bush, the Dems don't want to be your friend EVER!! Stop licking their boots!
Start kicking some A**! Begin with pardoning the Border Patroll Guards, build that wall, assign a Federal Prosecutor to investigate the true criminals in this Plame flame affair namely,
Joe Wilson & wife, Armitage, MSM and their whole cabal. Don't even get me started on Sandy the Burgler, Geeze, what a mess. Your good intentions only fed the monster that is the Far-Left.

Sawdust
She has refused EVERY invite over to my blog. Quite obviously Kimberloon and facts mix like Democrats and work, oil and water, Frenchmen and soap.

Valerie Plame Wants a Book Deal
But the CIA will not allow her publisher to go ahead with the story.Why? Because, she was a NOC, or under-cover agent, or a person who said she worked for a private firm, but in fact drove her SUV to CIA Hq everyday for 5 years. Or Something like that. What goes around comes around. A person close to her (probably Joe W.) says her lawyer is threatening to sue CIA - I guess she needs this book deal bad.

So, ol' Val was upset that someone blew her top secret cover (little did she know that almost all her neighbors knew she worked at the CIA. Any PI could have uncovered this by 9:00AM on the first day of his investigation. Who's Who had her lists as Joe W's wife BTW), Bush ordered an investigation;his investigator knew within 3 days of his investigation that ol Val didn't fall under the Foregin Identity Act, but proceeded to troll for criminals anyway (Does Nifong come to mind?). In the end Fitz got his criminal, who alledgedly covered up a crime that was never committed. But, Val cannot get the CIA to admit she wasn't a secret agent, probably because it would make the CIA look ridiculous allowing a non-secret agent to publish a book while a person is being tried for leaking the ID of said non-secret agent, which in fact the CIA said he is guilty of. BTW, the cost of investigating and trying this case is over $100 million over the last 31/2 years.

Now, if this doesn't prove that the Beltway is incapable of governing this nation, I do not know what would.Not even Monty Python could think up something so utterly ridiculous.


She's become strange, weird or just plai
My comments don't concern the column -- rather, her appearance on O'Reilly last night - - -
It was was troubling. Very
Asked who is the viable GOP candidate, your answers seemed to always revolve around the abortion and choice factor... screw the strength stuff and who'd close our borders to illegals, and actually WIN the stupid Iraqi mess that Dubya messed up so badly.
No, it's her obsession with abortion that's strange, really. Her priorities are updescrewed. Or, as I wrote to O'Reilly: "My wife (and I) were pro-CHOICE, but we chose to have three neat kids."
'Nuff said.

JP
Of course she wants a book deal. Hubby Joe will be getting one soon as well. He can write about the yellow cake that never was, or maybe it was, or that the Brits, who STILL by their intel assessment were wrong but he was right.

Plame and Joe should both be shot for the vermin they are.

RightisRight
I said it back in 2000 after Bush won that he should have gotten rid of EVERY Clinton-lover inside the belt. Even if it meant appointing unknowns from fly-over country.

They had no loyalty to Bush and have proved it every day since Jan 2001.

He had a majority and should have come out swinging with BOTH fists. Libs DO NOT pursue bi-partisan politics and neighter should the right.

"Nice guys finish last." Leo Duroucher.

SayHey Looks in the mirror
you said:
"Clintons...UGH
Ann, If U can...I saw Hillarys legs.. Do U know what she did with the rest of the piano.?And, is it true that daughter Chelse played the part of the groundhog in Bill Murrays pic " Groundhog Day".?.give eem hell..!!"

This is a good reasoned dialog that discusses the issue? Sounds more like some of the trash talking done by the "hollywood left" conservatives dislike so much for their comments about Bush.

Moonbat meet Wingnut....... your identical twin

acceptreality
Your point is true and valid. My point is we need an in-your-face conservative in the White House. One who will point out what the real issues in this sub-pathetic affair should be. For example:

What were a group of CIA employees doing "authorizing" a trip by one of their spouse to go to Niger to verify a comment made by the Prez in his SOTUS?

To what official was Wilson supposed to report his findings? If this was an appropriately authorized "mission", why was it made public? Why was Wilson allowed to discuss his "findings" in the media?

If his public discussion of his findings wasn't pre-authorized, wasn't it more of a "crime" for him to go public with that info than it was for Libby, or anyone else, to point out that Wilson was a partisan acting in concert with his wife, who was a CIA employee?

If outing Plame is such a big deal why hasn't Armitage, who actually did it, been charged?

Wilson has been caught in several lies. Isn't it incumbent upon the administration to point this out as part of its PR work in this matter?

Instead of pointing out the partisan nature of Plame and Wilson's conduct their apparent misuse of the CIA for political purposes, and Wilson's lies in this matter, what have we gotten from GWB? An apology for using the 16 words in his SOTUS. You want to talk about giving the left media something to lick their chops over...

Does it occur to anyone but me that Bush and Republicans can't be treated any worse by the left than have been for 6 years? And that being the case, there is nothing to lose and everything to gain by pardoning Libby (and the two border guards), making recess appointments of ALL the judicial nominees who have been denied up-or-down votes, firing Fitzgerald, vetoing EVERYTHING the Democrats pass in Congress until we get the tax cuts made permanent, and then telling the Democrats, the left media, and anyone else who doesn't like it to go sh*t in their wallets.

What are they gonna do? threaten to impeach him? Convince the public not to re-elect him? What?

Fitz Knew Armitage Was Leaker
After just 14 days of investigating the ordeal which Val and our nation was going through. He also knew that Val wasn't a secret agent, or as they say in CIAland, a NOC.Yet, like Nifong he proceeded with the Grand Jury investigation anyway. If I am not mistaken, if a prosecutor withholds information from a Grand Jury, he in facts commits perjury or obstruction. Fitzgerald kept the Grand Jury empaneled, continued to interview suspects, all the while he knew that Armitage was the leaker, and the Val had no cover to blow. Over the next several months he even went to such lengths as to have a NYT reporter goaled. He knew all of this before he interviewed Rove or Libby. Therefore, niether of them should have been interviewed.

If this isn't a case of prosecutorial mis-conduct I don't know what is. Bush have closed Fitz down, and ordered DOJ to prosecute him for gross mis-conduct.

Ann, you da' man, uh, er...the wo-man!!!
As usual, your comments stir up the bile in liberals but only because you are right and because you know how to write with such necessary eloquence. I like your style. I wish we had a hundred Republicans in our government with your fiesty, tell-it-like-it-is attitude. If we did, we would not have lost in 2006 one seat from these dammed knuckle head Dimwit-crats, those socialist swine!!

Lynne
Tehran Kim will never go away. She loves the abuse that we heap on her. Some people are just wired up wrong.

As my uncle George (101st DDay vet) would say to Tehran Kim, "STFU, you're giving me the galloping trots!"

Pardon?
The President should not only pardon Libby, but he should pardon the two railroaded border patrol agents too. It's not as though it will hurt his approval ratings, and it would make for an entertaining feeding frenzy in the leftmedia.

Kimberely wrote:
I am sorry, but you just don't get it at all. Libby didn't leak the story: Armitage did. How many times must it be reported. Even the liberal press which hates it when they have to report about liberals screwing up an effort to lie and try to smear some conservatives.

Armitage did it, simple as that. But you see the article in ways that only a person who has been warped by liberal ideas can see things. Coulter was not talking about a technicality on the part of Libby. She was not playing legal semantics. She was pointing out the clear differences of what has thus transpired. Clinton perjured himself and lost his legal liscence to practice. But that was a slap in the hand. Turn that truth around to a Republican and I can guarantee a witch hunt not seen since the days of Salem would commence in the media, and from every demon and hunchback in the Demon-crat party. It would be a weenie roast for that poor Conservative.

I think you need to stop drinking so much coffee and relax and think things through before you go off on a rant that makes you look foolish.

Perhaps you are right, Wise One.
Maybe Bush ought to go totally on offense. Veto everthing, fire any malcontents and aggressively counter any Dem accusations. Put so much stuff on the nightly news that the MSM will be overwhelmed and not have a chance to repackage the stories. Make them play defense for a change. Every one knows that their offensive line is nothing but bluster.

"Give 'em hades, George".

GunnyG....
..you sure know your stuff, we need you and Ann in the White House, and wiseone as AG!

Hey than the world would be RIGHT again.

Great Political Geniuses
Carl Rove has often been described as a “political genius”. If he is the one behind the way Republicans have responded to this mess then he is a political idiot. Look at the history behind this comedic farce:

Bush gives a SOTU address that contains the following statement; “The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” Joe Wilson writes an OP-ED column for the New York Times accusing Bush of lying.

In July Fleischer stated “Now, we've long acknowledged and this is old news, we've said this repeatedly -- that the information on yellow cake did, indeed, turn out to be incorrect.” (This was after liar Wilson had called Bush a liar in an internet piece.)

Even Condi Rice got into the act stating that they had determined that the words in the SOTU address should not have been used.

People; everything Bush said was absolutely true! What Bush and his supporters should have done is come out swinging. They should have called Joe Wilson a useless lying Democrat scum (that would have been the truth again). After investigating how an unqualified scum like Wilson had gotten the assignment in the first place instead of talking to liberal media jackals they should have FIRED Valerie Plame and NOT said another word. IF they had done all of this the story would have died an ignominious death years ago. Instead we have had to endure years of barking moonbat screed for “Bush lied et al”. H*ll they are still using that worthless screed even though their own Demo politicos have admitted that Wilson was the liar.

I hardly think that who ever thought this strategy up can be called a “political genius”. maybe it would have been a good idea to offer up Carl Rove as a sacrifice to the liberal witch hunt. Perhaps Bush’s communication skills would have improved after that.

Take politics out of it ..
This is going to sound 'idealistic', but Americans (of both parties) seem to fall into a predictable rut in these cases.

My suggestion is to use the following flow-chart:

IF
* there was proof of a crime
* laws were broken
* there was a cover-up

THEN .. it IS political, and
* the responsible person should been prosecuted, irrespective of rank
* along with most conservatives, I would be for justice being done

ELSE .. it is non-political and is treated as such.
------------------
IN THIS CASE ..
* the prosecutor concluded that no crime was committed - so, the case is no longer the 'Plame affair'
* there is a suggestion that Scooter Libby may have lied/misspoken/mis-remembered (take your pick)
* the prosecutor can determine whether the actions amount to perjury
* if it is deemed to be perjury, it is still left to the prosecutor's discretion whether it should be prosecuted

Whatever else this case is, it is no longer a political matter. It should no longer be a front-page item, and can be tried without the glare of publicity or partisan politics.

Also, the same standard should apply to everyone, irrespective of party affiliation.

Hey Kimberly
Don’t you know anything? I think those $750 Manalo Blanhik sling-backs might be strapped on a little too tight my friend.

Free the Fitzgerald One
Ms. Ann,

I really enjoy your sense of humor. It is wonderfully rye and excellently ironic.

I,too, am a closet Dick Cheney for President fan.
Excuse me you are not in the closet as a supporter of the 'presumed' President Cheney. I realized as perhaps the only one, I should, in passing this note and cry, "Free the Cheney One!"

Stay strong keeping the struggle real. GZ

Suspect
that Fitzgerald is an undercover Democrat...

shameless plug: New post on my blog...
http://dashofthought.townhall.com

voice of reason
You make good sense, but I have one logical bone to pick with your reasoning.

If Fitzgerald has concluded "no crime was committed" there should be NO trial.

In fact, Fitzgerald knew the source of the leak about two weeks after the investigation started. I suggest that were it not for politics (imagine a small town police force with an overworked detective squad handling a similar investigation) the investigation would have ended right there. If the prosecutor decides Plame was not covert then there is no crime and the leak doesn't matter. If he decides there was a crime he goes after Armitage. He does not subpoena high profile gov't officials to see if he can create a process crime or to see if someone else also committed the same crime.

The reason Libby is on trial is because of politics. So I agree with you and so does Ann Coulter. Take the politics out of this. Free Scooter Libby.

voice_of_reason
Your syllogism is flawed. Try this one on for size:

- IF there was no crime committed, and
- IF one side of the partisan debate overwhelmingly keeps pushing for prosecution anyway
- THEN it *is* political.

The fact is that Libby is being crucified, despite the lack of a crime, for the Right's unforgiveable sin of impeaching Saint Bubba. That is all this is about, that is all this has EVER been about. They have been talking about impeaching Bush since before his first inauguration, leaping at every possible pretext. It's obvious that that isn't going to happen, despite the fact of John Conyers' Viagra-like perpetual h*rd-on for the idea. Neither are they going to sink their hooks into Cheney, or Rove... so they have to settle for some token red meat in the form of Scooter Libby.

The Left's undying willingness to make people suffer when they are opposed is what makes this - and many other issues - political.

Kimberly
Why can't you ever get your facts straight? Stop making up lies as you go, please. Plame WAS NOT an undercover spy!!! Are you purposely not reading anything that goes against your twisted worldview??? It's really quite funny, every week, a new Coulter article, the same old redundant lying bunk from you.

right on suirad
yeah Kimberly. They’re called boot straps. Only I doubt if those $750 Manalo Blahnick sling backs with jewel encrusted stilleto heels come with them.

suirad
Please, facts????????

Kim-bat doesn't let anything as inconvenient as FACT enter her head. Remember, in cases where theory and reality are at odds, its reality that's got it wrong.

Brains and Beauty...I mean Ann, ...
certainly not Hiliary.

I love Ann's incisive writing when it comes to Slick Willie and his gender/policy confused wife.
Ann can nail this people on a dead run every time. Good "shooting" Ann, keep it coming.

Lynne
Please re-read my post. I'm on your side. Don't lump me in with the left fringe!

My point was that when Libby was accused of "outing" Plame, Bush took the high road. He tried to avoid the appearance of wrong-doing by starting an investigation. He went out of his way to avoid any perception of a coverup.

That was my explanation to drivebyposting's original question as to why did Bush react so strongly to the "leak".

What is wrong with what I said?


right fighting..
many folks here engage in the concept of right fighting where it is more important to 'be right' than to look at the spirit of the thing. one can pick apart the details of any person's verbal debate so they don't have to look at what is trying to be conveyed. the answer is almost always in the middle grey area. not in the all or nothing, black or white thinking shown here. being a good writer/debater doesn't make one 'right' or fair; you are just articulate. that is just a great skill to have. the 'truth' seems to be that all politicans eventually can not pick their words carefully enough all the time to avoid being considered lying. here's my question that i don't have an answer to. i understand that the cia sent someone to niger because of something cheney said and it doesn't appear they told him that they were going to do this before doing it. valerie plame worked at the cia. no one has said that she was the wrong person to make the request for someone to follow up on cheney's question. did she work in the wrong department for this or was she the wrong person in the department to make the request? i understand that joe wilson used to be the ambassador to niger and had many contacts in the industry there. could someone address this?

WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!
daddy's spanking me and I cant spank back!!! the liberals are disciplining me! where's my ninni? they took my blanky! waaaaahhhhhhh!

Ann for God!
Newt for Jesus, Condi for Mary, Scallia for Pope(he’s Italian), Cheney for Prez, GunnyG for Veep and wiseone for AG. Then I could sleep at night.

Ahh..the genius of Kimberly
I count no fewer than 8 responses to/about Kimberly. She really pushes the buttons around here. Some gripe aboout her as crying for attention...she certainly gets it. Hilarious.

Kimberly's self generated catfight
First time reading her and my impression is she is jealous of Ann and judging from her little rant here today, justifiably so. Kimmy, you talentless Coulter wannabe, get back to your Joe Biden for President duties, and leave thinking to those who can.

Joe Wilson the liar
and his trophy wife should have been taken to the woodshed by Bush. Wilson was not sent by the administration to Niger by them, but by his loony wife to set up this whole ridiculous farce that is still being played out.
I caught some people on the MSM still hoping that Carl Rove would be frog marched. They sure are stupid on the MSM.

Lynne
Lestat was quicker on the draw making my same point with his post just before mine dated February, 01, 2007 12:35 AM:

"We've seen him too often treat his own supporters worse than he treats his enemies, and I think it usually has to do with his advisors' desire for media approval (and avoid accusations of a cover up).

I'll accept your apology in advance.

I though Conservatives were for....
personal accountablity. It seems not in this case. FAUX News won't even cover the Scooter Libby case, I didn't see a single mention of it on either O'Riley or Hannity last night. John Gibson had plenty of time to speculate about Sandy "Burglar" though, a case that's two years old.

bubba
"They have been talking about impeaching Bush since before his first inauguration, leaping at every possible pretext."

There were people on the right keeping tabs on Clinton as well. However, the idiot dug his own grave. Honestly, I think Clinton got "Nifonged." Why? The women he was alleged to have raped when he was in Arkansas can't remember the date (not even the month) she was raped by Clinton. Why, then, did she make it up? Who knows, but probably for publicity and a book deal. Heck, I know plenty of whackos who will do anything just to get on the evening news.

Sexual harassment? I doubt that happened either. Sure, Clinton's a pretty suave guy, probably flirts with and screws a lot of women. Probability says a few of them will try to f*** him over a la Kobe or the Duke Lax Players.

And to conclude, Clinton should have said "hell yea I got my bone slobbed in the oval office." I mean, he's married to Hillary "Ice Box" Clinton, can you blame him? If anything, the Paula Jones case should have been postponed until after his presidency as it was a civil lawsuit. You think indicting Libby was petty? How about impeaching a man over a jowblob.

This case is so stupid
We should not even be entertaining it as valid. I'm astounded that the subject of entrapment has not been raised with regard to Mr. Fitzgerald.

At the very least he knew going into the closed-door interviews that had already been the source, Robert Novak, and yet continued what would otherwise be considered a modern day witch-hunt.

Truly, if someone were guilty of a crime that was worth pursuing, we most certainly should do so, but this is so stupid on the very premise of what is being prosecuted, the entire Law community should be embarrassed and humiliated at its venture.

The abhorrent and flagrant disregard for public responsibility at the hand of Mr. Fitzgerald should move everyone to protest of this outrageous and egregious act that he is performing. It is simply unacceptable.

Predictably idiocy and lies by Kimmy
"According to Coulter, Republican liars "misremember" whereas all other liars commit perjury."

Here's a suggestion: Return to the 4th grade and learn to read. Come back when you can get through "Green Eggs And Ham".

Libby is being accused of failing to remember the fist person who told him who Valerie Plame was. More accurately, he is being accused of voluntarily correcting statements after he reviewed his notes on the incident. Yes, what you morons always seem to forget is that Libby returned to Fitzgerald without being asked to return after he found his notes so that he could correct statements he made.

On the other hand, Slick Willy flat out lied -- KNOWINGLY lied -- about raping 3 women. Oh, but rape is ok as long as it is your "favowittest pwezident in da hole wyde werld", thoug, right Kimmy?

Lynne
Forgiven :-)

We have our hands full fighting the the loony left and MSM propaganda (redundant?) to allow division in our ranks.

Clinton did not...
get a fair shake by the media and by Republicans. Whenever I turned on the TV all I heard about was "Clinton getting a BJ in the Oval Office." It must be that "ultralibral media" bias that supposedly exists.

Justice Department

.....RodT...

.....One of Clinton's first official acts as President was to fire all the lawyers at the Justice Department and hire people loyal to him ...

.....When Bush became President he left all of Clintons people at the Justice Department ...

.....nobody ever said that Republicans were politically astute ...with the House, Senate and White House under control ...they could not even drill in Anwar ...I wonder if Bush ever heard of Executive Order? .....COLOSSUS

IT!!
"Liberals just don;t get it". WEll,class, yes they do. They just don't have morals,integrity,a conscience!! Remember ..they don't believe in right or wrong,,,They're relativists. They get it alright, they're just sorry as he**.

Everyone should thank Kim
If it weren't for her comments many of you would have nothing to say.
Coulter is right about many things but her "in your face" tactics and style are the types of things that made a big difference in the 06 elections.
The day before the election you could go to any blogging site, left or right, and everyone was just licking their chops to get a win the next day, less because of concern for country than almost compulsive desire to throw the win in the faces of the losing party.

Sad... both sides are contributing to the steady drip drip of our society norms and civility permanently disappearing.

beowulfe..
Who did Clinton rape??? Was he ever charged in court with rape??? You sound like a conspiracy theorist to me. Let me guess the Democrates "framed" Mark Foley and Jack Abramoff too?

Place responsibility where it belongs
Your disregard for Mr. Clinton’s inappropriate behavior in the Oval office speaks to your own inability to assimilate why the country was outraged over his actions and then his lying about it.

No one should care about Clinton’s indiscretions when it comes to his relationship with his wife; it’s neither my business, nor yours for that matter.

What you ought to care about, as an American citizen is that your President was acting in a manner that was unbecoming of the office he held; that he perjured himself; that he misused the office of the Presidency; that he conducted his inappropriate behavior in the White House and within the Oval Office.

Clearly if John Doe were to have conducted himself quite the same in his business of employment, we would demand his resignation or his termination as this behavior is not socially appropriate in the work place.


With regard to President Bush and the “evidence” of his lying about the Iraq war. If there were a scintilla of evidence to prove this fact then impeachment would have already been forthcoming.

It is grossly irresponsible for your Senators and Congress people to attempt to lay responsibility for their individual vote at the feet of the President. If they had not the fortitude, nor the wherewithal to investigate before casting a vote for the war, they are misrepresenting this nation and should be held accountable.

If they viewed the evidence and made their vote “yea” for the war, they are responsible for that decision and choice and have no one to be accountable toward except themselves and their constituents. Their behavior is that of a child blaming a friend that “made them do it”. How preposterous.

The idea that these politicians are being given a pass to throw out this trash dialogue to the American people and expect us to swallow it is an insult for which no one should tolerate. How dare they act with such disrespect for the office which they hold.

Moderate Hick
That is probably the smartest, most insightful post on this board. Several of mine were somewhat to the left and also somewhat reactionary. I've never been a partisan person and I find the extremes from both sides to be distasteful. More people like you is what this country needs.

drewrush
"The women he was alleged to have raped when he was in Arkansas can't remember the date"

Which one???? There were several.

"Sexual harassment? I doubt that happened either."

According to the National Organization of Women - at least, anytime their target is a Republican - the simple fact of having a sexual relationship with a subordinate is indicative of sexual harassment. That was the cross they tried to hang Clarence Thomas on: the abuse of an "unequal power relationship."

Gee, is a sexual relationship between an INTERN and the POTUS an unequal power relationship? lemme think, hmmmm....

... and yet NOW had absolutely nothing but shining words for Billy Drop-Trou.

Dunkel
You and you’re friend Kimberly are not geniuses. That dog don’t hunt. You can pat each other on the back all you want but wishing don’t make it so. Ann is the genuis and Kimberly is just sour grapes.

GoNavy
Your lack of perspective is... well, right up the alley of both those on the Left and the bootlickers who refer to themselves as "moderates."

PAY ATTENTION: There was NO CRIME in the Plame case. NONE. Zero. Zip. Her status at the CIA was decidedly NOT covert; it was "classified" - and that more than two years before any of this came up, well past the expiration date. She had been based at Langley for OVER. TWO. YEARS.

Sandy Berger: It may be old, but the fact is that he STOLE DOCUMENTS from the National Archive and destroyed them, and this in the middle of the 9/11 investigation. THAT IS A CRIME.

In short, and by way of metaphor, you are deriding Fox News for covering a two year-old brain tumor and ignoring a brand-new pimple.

Moral Relativism ....
Means never having to say you're sorry.

When the ends justify the means, and Left think that they are morally superior, there are no bounds to the depths to which they will sink.

Read Thomas Sowell's gem, "Visions of the Annointed".

The Republicans will continue to get run over by the Democrats until they stop playing nice and confront the Left's double-standards and hypocracy, rather than trying to make everyone like them.




Right Said Fred
You nailed THAT ONE!

The vision of two idiots backslapping one another for successfully regurgitating pablum was too d*mn funny. Thanks for the great laugh!

two points
GoNavy07: Mr. Gibson may have spent time on the Burgler case as it is a REAL crime. The identification of Ms. Plame/Wilson was not, and was known not to be 2 weeks in.

Drewrush: Your middle two paragraphs are rubbish, the harassment/possible rape cases are documented well enough elsewhere. Your final paragraph in that Mr. Bill should have owned up to getting monica'd is dead on. Had he said: 'Yep, sure did' that would have been that. Instead he had to lie on national television (bad enough) and compound it during his deposition. Lying under oath is a crime, it's called perjury and he was disbarred and impeached for THAT, NOTfor getting his nut$ off in the oval office (disgusting to the office as that is)...

wjriii
Good point. The republicans need to fight back and stop taking this crapola.

FergusMacLennan
The difference is that Sandy Burger has already pleaded guilty and has already been sentenced. The Scooter Libby trial is happening right now. I personally think Scooter Libby probably is innocent. It looks like he was hung out to dry in order to save Karl Rove. On another note, You say anyone who considers themselves moderates are "bootlickers." Once againg I thought Republicans were looking to elevate the discourse. I'm not nearly as libral as you probably think I am, in fact I hate titles; but if you want the best description of where I stand politicaly I'd have to say I'm a "progressive conservative."

When old Billy boy
said "I did not have sex with "that" woman on TV, he displayed a complete lack of respect for women in general. He couldn't even say Monica's name.
And, NOW sticks up for this lying womanizer simply because he supported abortion.
Talk about moral relativism.

GoNavy
"I personally think Scooter Libby probably is innocent. It looks like he was hung out to dry in order to save Karl Rove. "

Save Karl Rove from *what*? THERE WAS NO CRIME.

GoNavy07
Thanks for the nice things you said. I think we both are pretty similar in our views and personally I think there are a lot more than most bloggers want to acknowledge.

My personal opinion is that there are about 20% of the "extremists" roughly 10% in each party. They suck up most of the oxygen and press leaving the more moderate people feeling kind of isolated.

The fast pace of the blog world seems to indicate that people are doing less in-depth reading about the issues and more cut and paste of the same tired old talking points.



GoNavy
"Libby probably is innocent. It looks like he was hung out to dry in order to save Karl Rove."

It was Richard Armitage that "outed" Plame if there was an outing to begin with. She was not under cover.

To Gunny and RightSaidFred
I don't know Kimberly and I don't agree with 90% of what she says. However, she pushes your buttons and I find it amusing. I think you do too. Why else would you expend so much energy responding? She cruises by, unloads her post, and then you all slap each other on the back, regurgitating the same insults which you direct at her. Why do you have to respond to her at all? To validate your feeling of superiority? I think she laughs at you. I certainly do.

I don't understand..
the anger towards Bill Clinton. Generally speaking he was probably the most conservative Democrate to ever hold the presidency. He initiated welfare reform, he worked well with a Republican congress despite their attempts to destroy his legacy. I've always said the last true libral president was Nixon.

Fergus' shoe fetish
you said:
"Your lack of perspective is... well, right up the alley of both those on the Left and the bootlickers who refer to themselves as "moderates."

A far leftie might say "your lack of perspective is... well, right up the alley of both those on the right and the RINOs who refer to themselves as "moderates"


Drones make similar statements -- impress me with original thought and not name calling.

Republican Precedent
"There were people on the right keeping tabs on Clinton as well. However, the idiot dug his own grave"

Ahh, no.

There are two precedents set by the Republicans during the Clinton years.

1.) Clinton is the first president to have been investigated all eight years of a two-term presidency. Can you name the prosecutor before Ken Starr?

2.) Clinton is the first president to be investigated for civil matters that happened prior to taking office.


Less people forgot, Paula Jones was talked into filing suit against Clinton on the very last day of the statute of limitations of four years by a Republican operative who offered her money in exchange for filing suit. Clinton only dug his own grave in that he allowed the investigations to take place.

Mark my words. These were not precedents this country ever needed. In the "tit-for-tat" game of politics, the cycle will not cease. Every president now will be fair game for investigation for civil crimes committed before they took office.

This country will not be better for these precedents set by Republicans. Investigating Clinton the first year he took office is nothing short of a witch hunt.







Moderate Hick
If we bloggers here are so repulsive to you why are you here?
btw, a lot of us don't go to the lefty sites. We don't have time, we are busy reading, getting facts.

GoNavy: "On Another Note"
"On another note, You say anyone who considers themselves moderates are 'bootlickers.'"

If you would really like to debate me, you will need to develop better read-comprehension skills.

What I wrote was descriptive of "those on the left and THE BOOTLICKERS WHO CALL THEMSELVES 'MODERATES'" [caps added for emphasis]

Now, can we apply some neurons and parse the distinction between what I said, and what you said?

"Once againg I thought Republicans were looking to elevate the discourse."

1) You assume I am a Republican - for all you know, I might be a registered Libertarian - and 2) depends on what you mean by "elevate the discourse." If by that you mean, introduce accurate data and rational arguments where the Left resorts to half-truths, lies, and emotion-based arguments... why then yes! That would be a perfect descriptor. If, on the other hand, you mean, play nice and don't say anything to hurt the poor Leftists' feelings... well then I am afraid you are mistaken. That has been the mode of argument of the Right for a long time, and looks where it gets us. Bush plays nice with the Left, and they STILL hate his guts.

"I'm not nearly as libral as you probably think I am, in fact I hate titles; but if you want the best description of where I stand politicaly I'd have to say I'm a 'progressive conservative.'"

Your use of the word "progressive" suggests that you are every bit as Leftist as I think you are. I don't use the word "liberal," which once meant a stance in favor of maximum Liberty with minimum governmental interference. But "progressive" tends to suggest that you believe in the power of government to make people's lives better through intervention in their lives. And buddy, that's too far to the Left by a mile.

Peppermint
You failed to add in regards to lefty sites...

They immediately BAN you AND wipe your post(s).

Can't be having Freedom of Speech interfering with dispensing the pablum talking points for drones like Tehran Kim and Minnesota Mike eh?

Moderate Hick
Here's my biggest issue with politics today and the whole concept of left vs. right. For one thing nobody has all the answers to the problems America faces which is why I like to hear and digest both sides views. But when I turn on MSNBC and see Keith Olberman or turn on FOX and see O'Riley I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth.
My goal as far as national security and terrorism goes is to make the world, not just the US but the world safe for my kids and grandkids. Conservatives and librals, even the most extreme ones,want the same thing. We agree on an end, the only thing we disagree on are the means by which to achieve those ends.
As far as social issues go, those are tough to debate b/c they can be the most polarizing. However I don't see why a common ground should be impossible to reach.

GoNavy
As to Burglar being covicted: Technically correct although he has NOT as yet completed the terms of his deal. One critical term of his deal was to take a polygraph administered by the DoJ. He has NOT yet done so. My personal opinion is that he will report for same sometime in late Jan or early Feb of 2009...


GoNavy: one last
As an afterthought: How Leftist you are is really not the point; your words demonstrate you to be yet another shallow thinker, who swallows whole whatever the MSM feeds you. If you had any brains, you would look past Ann's polemical style to what she is actually saying, and you would find appalling truths there. But you are content to go with the current: all Bill did was get a bl*wjob, Rove is a maniacal fiend, "Bush Lied, Kids Died," and so on. So Left/Right doesn't matter; what matters is that you haven't got enough actual wattage going to light a broom closet.

Moderate Hick
I am honestly puzzled... what on earth gave you the idea that I give a donkey fart about impressing *you*?

GunnyG and driveby
Gunny, so right. No freedom of speech with them.

Driveby: Going after a sitting president started with Nixon.

Peppermint's small tent
you said:
"If we bloggers here are so repulsive to you why are you here?
btw, a lot of us don't go to the lefty sites. We don't have time, we are busy reading, getting facts."

At least use words I really said when characterizing me. Perhaps I visit the blogs because I care about the direction our country is going in, perhaps the 60% that isn't heard needs to be more vocal, and perhaps we don't like seeing either party hijacked by those who shout the loudest.

I don't really see townhall as a terribly right leaning site. I like the variety of its columnists and the views of several. Going to the exclusive lefty/righty sites is a waste of time. They just want to drink koolaid with each other. Realclearpolitics.com is another good source of across the spectrum opinions and writings and is about as close to an impartial site I have seen.

FergusMacLennan
You MUST impress him Fergus. You know those pseudo-intellectually superior lib's egos are.

GoNavy
"My goal as far as national security and terrorism goes is to make the world, not just the US but the world safe for my kids and grandkids. Conservatives and librals, even the most extreme ones,want the same thing. We agree on an end, the only thing we disagree on are the means by which to achieve those ends."

What are your ideas on fighting terrorism?

FergusMacLennan
Point taken. I'll be 100% honest I don't know too much about the libertarian party other than, as you said, they are for minimum government interferance into our daily lives.
When I called my self progressive I was reffering largely to social issues. I don't think it's the government's job to define marrige as being between a man and a woman. I don't think it's the governments job to tell me I can't eat trans fat or to tell me I can't take a certain drug. And it most certainly is not the governments job to regulate what I watch on tv, read on the internet, or the music I listen to.
When I called myself conservative that mainly applies to economic issues. Nobody like taxes, I just did my return the other day and taxes high enough in my opinnion. I've never been of the mindset that throwing money at a problem will fix it. There's lots of other issues too but that's a small part of where I stand.

Fergus' Hick Fascination
you said:
"I am honestly puzzled... what on earth gave you the idea that I give a donkey fart about impressing *you*?"

You addressed me specifically twice now - keep trying you never know you might just impress me.

ModHick
Visiting left wing sites is about as productive as batting flies on a hot, humid day.

Years ago,when I first started going to different sites, I did visit left wing sites. I found them to be full of inaccurate material and a lot of vile comments. After reading that kind of stuff for 5 minutes it was unbearable. And, like GunnG said you don't dare and make a comment, you get kicked off real quick.

GoNavy
Have you ever read "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine? His satirical style is similar to Ann's (IMHO) and it is a classic. His flaying of the Brit's and their archaic and corrupt Monarchy is a must-read.

BTW, a piece of advice. The US military is about 85% conservative in the enlisted ranks and the officer ranks are about 90% Conservative. Most of us come from military families with long traditions of military service.

So, being the good Gunny that I am, I'm offering you my 12 step Program FOR FREE to get you thinking the right way before some Gunny or Navy Chief yanks a knot in your azz on active-duty.

http://noliberalspin.townhall.com/g/12d2bcfe-7679-4caa-a35a-e602fc908dfe

Good luck with it.

Clinton initiated welfare reform??
As I recall he vetoed the first bill that was submitted and signed the second one reluctantly.

Peppermint
As far as fighting terrorism goes I was very impressed by something Condi Rice said. I don't know the exact quote but it was something along the lines of "the war in Afghanistan was a short term solution (ie destroying Al Quaida training camps) and the war in Iraq is a longterm solution to fighting terrorism."
She went on to elaborate her statement but to me the message was clear. Not only America, but the world needs stable, democratic countries in the Middle East if we hope to eliminate terrorism within the next generation or two. There was a recent poll that was cited on Brit Hume's "Special Report" last night that showed 76% of Iranians think Bin Laden is evil and should be killed. 78% said no American civilian should ever be killed for any reason. These numbers are encouraging it shows that the majority of Iranians want peace with the United States. Which also means a political solution in Iraq is not out of the question. There's a lot more but that's all I have for now.

Gunny
I'm elisted, and let me tell you a lot less than 90% of us support Bush. I'm curious where you got those numbers from. It seems like the pilots and the khakis are the most conservative, but I don't know about 90%. I get into debates all the time with some of my conservative friends. Lucky for me they're fairly open minded and we get along fine.

GoNavy07
What command are you attached to?

driveby, fergus
driveby:

1) Bob Fiske.

by dug his own grave i meant philandered in the first place.

if slick willy could have controlled his desire to get little willy wet, he wouldn't have had to keep lying about his philandering and these women would not have made him a target. that's how he dug his own grave. kinda like how kobe's cheating got him put on trial and how the