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Wednesday, July 19, 2006
Ann Coulter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Liberals: Born to run
by Ann Coulter
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I knew the events in the Middle East were big when The New York Times devoted nearly as much space to them as it did to a New York court ruling last week rejecting gay marriage.

Some have argued that Israel's response is disproportionate, which is actually correct: It wasn't nearly strong enough. I know this because there are parts of South Lebanon still standing.

Most Americans have been glued to their TV sets, transfixed by Israel's show of power, wondering, "Gee, why can't we do that?"

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean says that "what's going on in the Middle East today" wouldn't be happening if the Democrats were in power. Yes, if the Democrats were running things, our cities would be ash heaps and the state of Israel would have been wiped off the map by now.

But according to Dean, the Democrats would have the "moral authority that Bill Clinton had" -- no wait! keep reading -- "when he brought together the Israelis and Palestinians." Clinton really brokered a Peace in Our Time with that deal -- "our time" being a reference to that five-minute span during which he announced it. Yasser Arafat immediately backed out on all his promises and launched the second intifada.

The fact that Israel is able to launch an attack on Hezbollah today without instantly inciting a multination conflagration in the Middle East is proof of what Bush has accomplished. He has begun to create a moderate block of Arab leaders who are apparently not interested in becoming the next Saddam Hussein.

There's been no stock market crash, showing that the markets have confidence that Israel will deal appropriately with the problem and that it won't expand into World War III.

But liberals can never abandon the idea that we must soothe savage beasts with appeasement -- whether they're dealing with murderers like Willie Horton or Islamic terrorists. Then the beast eats you.

There are only two choices with savages: Fight or run. Democrats always want to run, but they dress it up in meaningless catchphrases like "diplomacy," "detente," "engagement," "multilateral engagement," "multilateral diplomacy," "containment" and "going to the U.N."

I guess they figure, "Hey, appeasement worked pretty well with ... uh ... wait, I know this one ... ummm ... tip of my tongue ..."

Democrats like to talk tough, but you can never trap them into fighting. There is always an obscure objection to be raised in this particular instance -- but in some future war they would be intrepid! One simply can't imagine what that war would be.

Democrats have never found a fight they couldn't run from.

On "Meet the Press" last month, Sen. Joe Biden was asked whether he would support military action against Iran if the Iranians were to go "full-speed-ahead with their program to build a nuclear bomb."

No, of course not. There is, Biden said, "no imminent threat at this point."

According to the Democrats, we can't attack Iran until we have signed affidavits establishing that it has nuclear weapons, but we also can't attack North Korea because it may already have nuclear weapons. The pattern that seems to be emerging is: "Don't ever attack anyone, ever, for any reason. Ever."

The Democrats are in a snit about North Korea having nukes, with Howard Dean saying Democrats are tougher on defense than the Republicans because since Bush has been president, North Korea has "quadrupled their nuclear weapons stash."

It wasn't that difficult. Clinton gave the North Koreans $4 billion to construct nuclear reactors in return for the savages promising not to use the reactors to build bombs. But oddly, despite this masterful triumph of "diplomacy," the savages did not respond with good behavior. Instead, they immediately set to work feverishly building nuclear weapons.

But that's another threat the Democrats do not think is yet ripe for action.

On "Meet the Press" last Sunday, Sen. Biden lightly dismissed the North Koreans, saying their "government's like an eighth-grader with a small bomb looking for attention" and that we "don't even have the intelligence community saying they're certain they have a nuclear weapon."

Is that the test? We need to have absolute certainty that the North Koreans have a nuclear weapon capable of hitting California with Kim Jong Il making a solemn promise to bomb the U.S. (and really giving us his word this time, no funny business) before we -- we what? If they have a nuclear weapon, what do we do then? Is a worldwide thermonuclear war the one war Democrats would finally be willing to fight?

Democrats won't acknowledge the existence of "an imminent threat" anyplace in the world until a nuclear missile is 12 minutes from New York. And then we'll never have the satisfaction of saying "I told you so" because we'll all be dead.

COPYRIGHT 2006 ANN COULTER

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About The Author
Ann Coulter is a columnist and author of Guilty: Liberal Victims and Their Assault On America.
 
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patterns
"The pattern that seems to be emerging is: 'Don't ever attack anyone, ever, for any reason. Ever.'"

Well, yeah, until another 9/11. Then, it's: "Why didn't you do anything?" Damned if you do; damned if you don't, so you may as well do.

The overriding pattern is: blame America.

Eeeexcellent!
Great column, with lots of weel-earned sarcasm and derision.

I love it.

No wonder the Leftocrats hate her.

Born to run
"Born to run." Nice touch Ann, a mordant tribute to an aging runner and a sagacious column to boot. You are positively pulchritudinous!

You called it Ann!
As usual, your insight is right on the money! Howard Deans rant about Bill Klintons "moral authority" is laughable! Some might remember, when Klinton was president, when a reporter asked him how he would respond to a nuclear threat. He replied "I won't do anything until a nuclear bomb detonates in the United States!"

And this is the guy the Demo's cling to as their "God Like" Hero.

I think Israel will do the job right this time. I don't think they are paying attention to the Liberal dribble this time. I hope they extinguish Hezbollah and anyone who gets in their way!

Talk is cheap...
"Democrats like to talk tough, but you can never trap them into fighting. There is always an obscure objection to be raised in this particular instance -- but in some future war they would be intrepid! One simply can't imagine what that war would be."

and that is all the liberals have.



Stop the running...
Where is Mitch Rapp when we need him?
Ann must be a Vince Flynn fan. I just pray that there really are people who understand that there is only one way to deal with really bad people who want us dead. Most Americans have not traveled outside the US to understand that these people are not rational and not to be negotiated with. Keep ringing the bell Ann!

how old are you people?
The rhetoric on the right these days is really deteriorating. You sound like a bunch of fifth grade boys in the schoolyard. Yes, you too Ann.

Dems will surely use force when necessary. Which party was in control when we won world war two? The issue is judicousness. If Al Gore had been elected, we would have gone into Afghanastan and we would have gotten Bin Laden. (The only reason we haven't gotten Bin Laden is because Bush didn't want to get him. That would've ruined his phony pretext for going into Iraq.)

Gore would not have gone into Iraq becuase it was clear to everyone but the warmongers in charge that it was a fools errand. And because we didn't invade Iraq on false pretenses, the world would still respect us. (Remember the French headline after 9/11 "We're all Americans.") We also wouldn't have filled the pockets of the masters of the militray industrial complex with 400 billion dollars of taxpayer money. We also wouldn't have lost more than 2500 young men and women, not to mention the thousandsl of grotesque injuries.

AND, we also would not have strengthened our main enemy IRAN! (By the way, they might not be our enemy today if the CIA didn't overthrow their highly popular, democratically elected leader in 1953, all because British Petroleum wanted to continue to exploit their oil resources.)

You people are so blinded by your loyalty to party that you can't see what a mess your leaders are creating.

Wake up people. Please. The future of America depends on it.

November Elections
If the dems think this kind of so-called leadership is going to help them in November,
they are once again sadly mistaken.



Run and hide deplomacy
The diplomatic solutions offered by the left are always based on the same principles – run and hide. Run away from anything that is hard or messy and then hide behind self righteousness that they are morally superior because they didn’t fight.

God bless Israel for doing what we should be doing – and that is taking the battle to the enemy and stopping at nothing short of victory. This conflict in Israel is a direct result of Iran and Syria being threatened by emerging democracies in their neighbors. They are threatened by people actually thinking for themselves and choosing their own destinies. How offensive is that to the left? It must be very offensive to their sensibilities because they never talk about it.

Phylo Se Fizer
Yes the Democrats of World War II were a much more conservative group. But then sometime in the late 60's your party took a left turn and kept on going left. It made a lot of people run to the Republican Party.

As far as the current situation in the Middle East why are you talking about things that happened 53 years ago. It does nothing to help us now. It is the same liberal argument every time, bring up some policy from years ago and take it out of context and say "see if we just didn't blah blah blah." Using that same logic I could say: The CIA was created in what Administration? Now go back to Goreland because he is so fantastic……..

bin Laden's delivery
Phylo Se Fizer says:

"Dems will surely use force when necessary. Which party was in control when we won world war two? The issue is judicousness. If Al Gore had been elected, we would have gone into Afghanastan and we would have gotten Bin Laden. (The only reason we haven't gotten Bin Laden is because Bush didn't want to get him. That would've ruined his phony pretext for going into Iraq.)"

In light of this analysis, could you please explain why the Democrats (in the person of Bill Clinton and the aforementioned Al Gore) refused to "take delivery" of bin Laden when he was offered to America by the the Sudanese? Or is that simply and "Inconvenient Truth"?


Well not exactly
It's not do more; it's do the right things. Instead of getting us bogged down on an expensive boondoggle in Iraq, why not better secure the borders and the port. You see the difference?

Part of why President Bush has to talk more than act right now is that he has tied up much of our military power in Iraq.

What unit?
So Ann what unit did you serve in during Iraq 1?

How many Marines died in Lebanon when our dyed haired President reagan cut and ran??

And "W", how many missions in Vietnam did he fly?

Bin Laden
I have a question for all of the liberals who, like Bill Clinton claimed to be (once he was safely out of office and out of a position where he'd have to show some backbone) seemingly are "obsessed with Bin Laden".

If Bin Laden is in Pakistan, do you support an invasion of, and possibly a war with, Pakistan, in order to kill or capture him?

Yo Michael Cassidy
Ann hasn't fought any battles in Iraq (although I think if she had the opportunity she would, without faking three purple hearts like Kerry), W didn't fly any missions in Viet Nam, and Reagan made a mistake in leaving Lebanon. nfortunately Clinton didn't learn from his mistake in Somalia and ignored the "warnings" of WTC bombing #1, calling it a criminal act rather than the act of war that it was, as well as not responding to the bombing of the Cole and the Khobarr towers. So what's your point? You don't have to be involved with the making of history to be an observer of it. Just don't rewrite it as libs are wont to do.

Phylo Se Fizer
You have to love the “Legend of Gore.” The real “inconvenient truth” for the left is, were it not for the fact Al (I invented the internet) is being propped up by moonbats and eco-nuts he would be wandering the streets of New York City in a sandwich board doxologizing the tenets of the environmental gods. Come to think of it… that is what he’s doing... strike that last sentence.

The only argument the Dems have had in recent history reads like a show tune, “Anything you can do I can do better.” Thank God the grown ups are in charge because life, after all (in the real world) old chum, is not a cabaret.

Phylo Se Fizer writes: Thursday, July, 20, 2006 7:54 AM

Dems will surely use force when necessary. Which party was in control when we won world war two?



Thanks for pointing that out. As a student of history you might also recall that the democrats were in power when Japan attacked the US. They (Japan) assumed the US would suffer a few defeats then bail out of the war. Japan moved too soon, 20 years later and the democrats would have handed them their victory. They did just that in Vietnam despite winning every battle.

ANN
She's so hot.

test

You are on drugs
If you think this is the same dem party that won WWII I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. JFK would be chalanged in his primary by this group because he believed in a strong defense and lower taxes, Scoop Jackson would have no chance in Washington State, and Sam Nunn would be a lawyer in Ga. I was a dem at one time, but they have gone Euro nuts.

To Michael Cassidy
Why are you knocking Ann?

Even Bill Clinton hasn't served more days in Iraq than Ann Coulter.

How's that for "fact"?

Michael Cassidy:
The same old, tired, moronic BS about whether or not someone who approves of the war has a military combat record.

Pathetic... beyond pathetic.

Well, Michael, I was in the 5th SF in Nam; Ann has my proxy to speak for me. How's that?

BTW, what unit did YOU serve in?

In case you didn't notice, the Founders put the military under civilian control. For very good reasons.

You lefties really think you hit gold with this silly argument, but all it does is highlight your own hypocrisy. Where was your "military experience" argument when the Draft Dodger in Chief was President? Where was your support for Dole (shot to pieces in the Italian campaign) or Bush 1 (youngest Navy fighter pilot in WW2 and shot down over Ie Jima)?

Phylo, Military Historian
Phylo wrote, "Dems will surely use force when necessary. Which party was in control when we won world war two? The issue is judicousness."

Let's see... it was the same party that was in power when Fascist Italy invaded Ethiopia; when Imperial Japan invaded China; when Hitler & Mussolini used Spain as a giant test ground for blitzkrieg tactics in the Spanish Civil War; when Nazi Germany performed the Anschluss...

It was the same party that won the White House in 1916 with "He kept us out of war," and had American doughboys in the trenches fo France a little more than a year later...

It was the same party that started the Vietnam War, botched it, turned it over to the GOP to try to salvage (while they relentlessly savaged the President) and then as a Congress broke a treaty and stood idly by while the North Vietnamese conquered a defenseless ertwhile ally TWO YEARS LATER. (NOTE: there was still a South Vietnam when the US left)...

For that matter, it was the same party that campaigned as "Peace Democrats" in 1864...

AND it was the same party that did NOTHING in response to the FIRST attack on the WTC.

Phylo
blah, blah, blah. . ."the world would still respect us." I, for one, do not want the respect of a world that is now calling for restraint from Israel or saying that Hezbollah is justified in it's actions.

Hmm, lets see . . . right, free, alive, and despised? - or wrong, enslaved, dead and liked?

"Umm, can you repeat the choices again?"

I think the first one sounds better. I'll take that.

Left Wingers thru History
When the Bolsheviks took over in 1917 their main complaints were against the illegal war (World War I) and against the higher classes in the country (Tax the Rich!). They felt no specific loyalty to Russia, it was more of a class thing. The fought and killed other countrymen to gain power so they could spread their leftist ideas across the country and the world.

In the 1940s and 1950s, there were still men like Whittaker Chambers who, in their idealistic view, saw Communism as the savior of the human condition. He came around eventually but many did not, as evidenced by how the left and the Leftmedia vilify Senator McCarthy.

Now in 2006 there are still many lefties and the ideas haven't much changed. Patriotism? Please! This war is being waged to fatten the coffers of the rich. Reject this war and focus on real problems like taxing the rich (Death Tax), saving the planet (from global warming), and amnesty for illegal aliens (who, after all, are our worker comrades!).

I've got another one
I live near Northampton, Massachusetts, an extremely liberal college town full of all manner of weird people. This is a town where they offer up Communist newspapers for a small fee on the street.

I went to a film festival in "Noho" a couple years ago and saw a documentary film about being a pack rat. The female filmmaker profiled her father in this movie along with some other people she knew or met. After the movie was over, the 25 or so of us in the theater were pleasantly surprised to see the woman who made the film there in the theater willing to answer a few questions.

A woman whom some of us soon realized was mentally ill got up from the audience and said a word or two to get the filmmaker comfortable but then gradually began harrassing her, eventually taking the mike from her hands and spouting gobbledygook about spies and the intelligentsia.

There were probably a dozen liberal men with round glasses, beards, and ponytails within 40 feet of this woman but not one of them had the intestinal fortitude to rescue the filmmaker from the increasingly menacing nutjob. After a moment and realizing no one in authority was going to do anything, I stood up, went to the back of the theater to get security going then walked toward the stage to lure the wacko away from the filmmaker. It reminded me of this column. A bunch of liberal men with fear in their eyes did nothing while probably the one Conservative in the audience acted like a man and helped saved the productive from the insane.

Ann Coulter: Born to Hustle !!$$$
I have to give it right wing conservative flamethrower Ms. Ann Coulter, she knows how to make a buck$$$.

Her basic MO is to demonize liberals and democrats in the most negative & inflammatory language/rhetoric possible on any issue, write a book it, watch for the dems to go nuclear for instant publicity, then go on FOX tv to defend
the book, then watch the bucks$$$ roll in from
the repub/con base faithful who literally eat this stuff up. Like the man said:

"There's a sucker born every minute"

One of the Best
This column goes in the "Best of Ann Coulter" file.

Pity the commenters can't stay on topic. I haven't seen any criticism of Laura Bush's hair style though so maybe there's hope.

You'll have to excuse Phylo
...if you read some of his other posts you will see that he is convinced that we will only defeat Islamofacism through philosophical debate which may take (in his own words) "decades if not centuries".

And his post here is more of the same drivel.

"It is nothing but a war fir profit"

"We (the libs) would've gotten Osama, Bush didn't WANT to catch him" (I'm sure catching the most wanted man in world would have just DESTROYED his chances for re-election, right?)

And, using his same philosophy, we could have prevented the rise of the Khomeni if DEMOCRAT Jimmy Carter had supported the Shah.

So, we have an individual who subcribes to all of the nutball theories of the left, and who's plan for peace against Radical Islam is a pull back of military action followed by a century long philosophical debate.

And then he complains that we're the ones who don't have our eyes open.

Well, my eyes are open. And they see a "useful idiot".


Left Angle
Thanks for all the dollars signs...they really helped me understand what your point was.

And, of course, the left NEVER have any acid-tongued authors who stir the pot and rake in the dough (Franken, Dowd, Rall, Moore etc)

Speaking of Moore: We have our pundits, just the same as you. last time I checked, we didn't put a lying propagandist in a seat of honor (next to our former presidents) in our national convention.

baseballdr: yeah there is a lesson...
in your comment on hiroshima.

"What was the party of the President that dropped the atom bomb on Hiroshima?

and a few follow up questions:

What was the party of the President who won WWII?

What was the party of the President who stood down the Russsians in the Cuban Missile Crisis?

The answer is: The Democratic Party

Republicans being stronger on defense is a myth of their making. They have nothing in U.S. history to even come close to the above.
Throwing money at the DOD and starting reckless wars based off of "cowboy" diplomacy doesnt make one "stronger" on defense.

"Bring em on" yeah..lol

Another great column
I don't know which I enjoy more, reading her columns or watching the libs go balistic over everything she says.
Keep up the good work Ann.

WWIII
It is against my principles to disagree with a single jot or tittle that Ann Coulter writes, but this one time, in this one instance, I will make an exception. In this excellent column Ann opines that; "There's been no stock market crash, showing that the markets have confidence that Israel will deal appropriately with the problem and that it won't expand into World War III."

My dear, dear Miss Coulter, we are indeed already in WWIII. The first battle was for control of the American Embassy in Tehran, during the Carter administration. We lost that battle and suffered many POWs. Luckily, Carter was defeated and we got our POWs back.

The list of battles since then is rather long and they occur in many different parts of the world. The battle on 9/11 is simply one that woke up a bunch of people in America. Some in Europe awoke also, but they have since nodded off again. Israel mostly knows this, but they also have a serious problem with their peacenik Left.

At this juncture America and Israel head the very short list of countries that are standing between individual freedom and the next Islamic Caliphate. If this fight is lost, the first people to feel the wrath of the Islamic winners will be those on the Left that are preventing us from prosecuting the fight in the manner required. Islam does not have any tolerance for cowards, homosexuals, or feminists, and academics are not their favorite people either unless they are teaching the Koran.

As Newt Gingrich has warned, WWIII has started, and we are in it, whether the Democrat party admits it or not.


EpsilonDao: In Borders Book Store
There is literally a whole section on books about "THE CLINTONS"...

If you check the authors, practically everyone of them is by some Repub/Con Pundit., who while the demonize Hillary & Bill, it's not beneath
them to make a buck$$$ off of them..lmao

btw: lying propagandist is in the eye of the beholder.

GET A CLUE PHYLO DE FIZER
Come on Phylo. If you are going to talk about WW11, do so with some intelligence. President Roosevelt did not get us involved in WW11 until AFTER Pearl Harbor. We were helping England with equipment, ammunition, training, food and supplies, but we were not actively fighting. After Dec. 7, FDR and the Congress realized that Japan and Germany were working hand in glove, believing they could force us to spread our military forces so thin as to be less effective on either front. How wrong they were. Admiral Yamamoto is thought to have said after the bombing of Pearl, "I fear we have awakened a sleeping tiger." He was right.

Point two: Bill Clinton was offered the chance to go to Afganistan and capture bin-Laden and HE REFUSED the offer. By the time George Dubya was elected, it was to late.

Point three: Trying to compare WW11 to the war on terror is asinine. In all wars from Korea back we were fighting soldiers. Japanese and German fighting men wore their uniform proudly, as our armed forces still do, and we knew who we were fighting. There was a sense of honor involved, even in war. Unlike the terrorists of today, they did not hide behind their women and children. They did not strap bombs to their women and children, send them into a crowd, then blow them up. These people have no honor. They are not soldiers, merely lowlife terrorists.

Point four: Iran did not become our enemy in 1953. The CIA and British intelligence had concluded that Prime Minister Mossadegh was courting Russian interests to help him nationalize Iran, depose the Shah of Iran, their "King of Kings", and free the country from British rule. Given the fact that Iran shared a 1000 mile border with the former Soviet Union, along with the cold war, anti communism was reaching fever pitch so Mossadegh was not acceptable. Yes, there were mistakes made by the CIA and and British intelligence. But, The Shah was placed back into power and he was the United States only ally in the middle east for 25 years. In 1979 that changed when the Ayatollah Khomeini came to power. In his 10 years of leadership he established a theocratic rule over Iran. He did not fulfill his pre-revolution promises to the people, instead he started to marginalize and crush any opposition group and those that opposed cleric rule. He ordered the establishment of many institutions to consolidate power and safeguard the cleric leadership. He launched the "Curtural Revolution" in order to Islamize the entire country. Many people lost their jobs, many books were revised, or burnt, according to his new Islamic values. Many people were put to death or sentenced to lengthy prison terms because they were in opposition to his radical changes. THAT is when Iran became an enemy of this country.

Read a history book, get a real clue boy, 'cause you don't have any idea of what you are talking about.






Left Angle
Leftie -

As has been pointed out several times thus far, the Democratic party has morphed since those days.

The Democratic Party was also the party of slavery.The Democratic Party was also the party that was against the Civil Rights Bill. Do you want to be linked to those items as well?

The Republicans "Strong on Defense" started right about the time when Carter was President. You remember Carter, right?

Ran from bunnies, dramtically cut defense spending, boycotted the Olympics in response to an attack, allowed the fanatics to hold our people hostage for 14 months prior to launching a ridiculously ineffectual rescue op? That guy?

He was followed by Reagan who rebuilt the military against the protests of the Democratic Congress. That pushed all the ex-hippies that had not already infiltrated, to finish the morphing of the Democratic Party. The pinnacle of this was when you guys nominated an elected an ex-hippie who openly loathed the military to be it's commander in chief.

But, supposing your hopelessly inadequate view of history is correct...quit calling US warmongers!

Oh, and we (MODERN Republicans) won the Cold War, no small accomplishment.

Demos then and now
I will gladly support the initiatives taken by Democratic presidents and leaders in the past. But as someone else mentioned, if JFK were campaigning today, he'd never make it past the New Hampshire primary. It's the current crop of Demos and their rhetoric that sounds so loony.

If you want to debate the conduct of the war, most Conservatives are all ears. But when Demos such as Kennedy, Schumer, Pelosi, Biden, Kerry, Gore, Murtha, etc. continually overreach with their arguments and start talking about the US as a nation of torture, eavesdropping, lies, etc., it's that old Carter malaise again where we Americans should all hang our heads in national shame. I'm shocked that message hasn't resonated with the American people yet.

Lefty - Borders
And you think there is not a whole section dedicated to Bush, Republicans, and the like?

I am not saying that we don't have our pundits. I am saying we do not put them on a pedestal like Michael Moore is to the Democrats.

Lying Propagandist In the eye of the beholder – Um..not really. He pretty much fits the bill. He misleads and misreports information as a way to influence people to his political view. His lies, edits, and misrepresentations are legion and have been catalogued by several different sources including the left-leaning Slate magazine (http://www.slate.com/id/2102723/ - Unfairenheit 9/11 “The lies of Michael Moore” )

There have also been psychological studies of the techniques he uses in his films – (http://www.workingpsychology.com/fahrenheit.html “Propaganda Tactics & Fahrenheit 9/11”)
It is ridiculous for any open-minded person of reasonable intelligence to look at the facts around Mr. Moore and conclude otherwise….but, OK.

Left angle
I see that you are proud of Presidents F D Roosevelt, Truman, and Kennedy, who fought and won WW2, and gave the Russians what-for when they put some missiles in Cuba.

Since FDR also put all the Japanese-Amercans in camps for the duration, because no one could be sure of their loyalty, I assume that you would approve of Pres Bush putting all Arab-Americans in similar camps? Not in a camp like the one in Guantanamo Bay, BTW, which is much nicer for inmates than the ones the Japanese-Americans called home for several years.

Since Kennedy also cut taxes, I assume that you would approve of Bush's tax cuts being made permanent?

The Democratic Party changed radically in the late 1960's and early 70's - it is effectively no longer the same party.

Ann, you said....
Democrats like to talk tough, but you can never trap them into fighting. There is always an obscure objection to be raised in this particular instance -- but in some future war they would be intrepid! One simply can't imagine what that war would be.

I can imagine one: when/if they have a chance to fight real conservatives, and even some moderates. Consider their Hate Campaign against Bush, ever since "he stole the election!" also consider what they're doing now to Joe Lieberman, just because he's not Left enough for them.

As for fighting foreign enemies, you must understand that most other countries, especially their leaders, hate Bush - and "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." The Democrats simply don't see many foreign enemies right now; well, maybe the United Kingdom and Australia, but they're small, and they may change policies (ie, pull out of Iraq) in the near future anyway.

Dems Arent Lockstep Robots..
Certainly, you guys on the right have noticed that in the Democratic Party we have a diversity of opinion on Issues such as the Iraq War while
Republicans blindly/robotically lock in on one set of talking points issued by the RNC and President Bush.

Oddly repubs take this as a sign of strength for their party and weakness for the dems. I see it as just the opposite. If someone is leading me off a cliff to death, I aint going with em. lol

There are many factions within the democratic party and not one speaks for all. Michael Moore speaks for himself not the democratic party.
that's a distiction you repubs/cons make. Dems dont march in lockstep.

I have no doubt todays democratic party would do a much better job on National Defense than the mess that President Bush currently presides over.

BY THE WAY PSYCO
Since this site became so "new and improved", i.e. sorry, you cannot edit your post if you think of something that should have been added.

Mossadegh was not elected by the people, he was appointed by their Parliment. The Iranian people had nothing to do with it. His only claim to fame is that he wanted to throw BP out, the company that developed their oil fields and were making the country rich. Well, the hierarchy anyway, much like it still is all over the middle east.

Baseballdr -- you forgot Korea
Also begun and won by a Democrat (Truman), unless my feeble memory hath betrayed me again.

BUT

Those were ALL 50 years ago or so, back when Democrats were STILL the "good guys" before they let their party be hijacked by liberals, baby killers, and other bleeding hearts (who have actually caused more deaths than the chickenhawks). Back then, *I* would have voted Democrat. The Democrats LATELY have given us Jimmy "no nuts" Carter, Bill "lets bomb Iraq to distract from my infidelities" Clinton... pathetic. The Republicans, successfully, paint the Democrats of TODAY as weak on defence because they ARE. The Democrats of today listen to the pacifists and liberals in their party way too much to ever properly defend our country.

I know the Pubs are just as corrupt. At least they are TRYING to fight the war that Al Quaeda began, however much the fools let politics and public opinion sway things. I just wish they would stop trying to appease the unappeaseable (the liberals and the left) and fight the war the way it SHOULD be fought. To WIN. Then, we will have a chance at true, LASTING, peace. Clinton's peace you refer to, way very very temporary. Crush the radical fanatics, and the peace can be long lasting. Like all things worth having, though, it will cost more...

Lefty - Lockstep
Firstly, if you think all Republicans are "in lock step", you have had your head in the sand for the last 6 years.

There are some, granted. Just as there are Democrat kool-aid drinkers as well.

A lot of Republicans and Conservatives (I am a conservative, NOT a Republican) think along similar lines on a lot of subjects. Democrats do as well. This does not equate to "blindly, robotically, lock step, blah, blah, blah)

It was Republicans that thwarted the Harriet Meirs nomination. The Democrats loved her.

It was Republicans in the House that thwarted the Bush & Senate Republicans hideous immigration bill.

Most Republicans I have talked to HATE Bush’s spending policies.

Many Republicans I know disagree with his social policies as well.

If you really read a lot of these columnists, you would see several discussions from forum posters as well as the columnists themselves complaining about Bush/Republican policies.

So much for “lock step”.

Secondly, your statement about Michael Moore is incorrect. When the convention organizers seated him on the pedestal next to the former Democratic Presidents, they were making a statement that Moore was equal in stature in the Democratic convention as Carter and Clinton.

Finally – you seem convinced that the Dems would do better in National Defense, and that may be true. Personally, I find it hard for a person to form an educated opinion when the Dems refuse to say what their plans are other than “We have a plan”. Any substantive statements about the particulars are somehow lost in the shuffle.


It was Republicans in the House that thwarted the Bush & Senate Republicans hidieous

Piling on Phylo
I have to agree with Jerry's post, but i have to clarify one point of his. Iran became our enemy the day that President Peanut abandoned the Shah and left Iran in the hands of the Ayatollah Khomeini. We could have avoided the creation of this enemy if Peanut had simply stopped his moralizing and faced the fact that in international politics, sometimes you have to hold your nose and ally yourself with people that may do some things that you don't like. What Peanut did was assure the Shah that he was our strong ally,all the while looking forward to a change in Iran's political system. Well, he got it and now we are stuck with a regime that hates us and wishes for our destruction. Oh yeah, President Peanut was one of the strong Democrat leaders that aren't afraid of a fight. What a crock! In every conflict the Dems strategy is to find the quickest, most creatuve way to surrender!

aspadeisaspade.townhall.com

EpsilonDao: Contradiction
If what you are saying is true, that repubs dont
walk in lockstep on the issues, why are they bashing democrats for having a diversity of opinion on Iraq, while they claim solidarity with President Bush on his policies there?

Is this not a contradiction or hypocritical?

American Wussys
Israel may indeed get the job done right, but the U.S. should be helping out. Massive bombing of certain locations in Iran would be a good start. A naval blockade of Iran is a must. A ground invasion of Syria would help a lot.

We have the ability to do these things with impunity, but we haven't the will....Too many wussys populating the left - and they vote! What a sorry state of affairs. Those wimpy lefties may well cost us dearly. If Scoop Jackson were alive he would be shamed out of the Democrat party.

Phylo Se Fizer
".......The rhetoric on the right these days is really deteriorating. You sound like a bunch of fifth grade boys in the schoolyard. Yes, you too Ann......."

I was really dispairing about this the blogs on this website. Then I went on the Yahoo site and read some of the comments on the column, "Republicans Say Bush's Veto Is Risky".

The posts were appalling. Most didn't have any point except to insult Conservatives and many used grade school sexual taunts (I started to say "to make a point" but I doubt if they had a point).

Even the liberals on this site seem able to carry on a conversation.

Lefty
Repubs don't "bash" Democrats for having different views on the war, either with us or between themselves.

I hear Republicans disagree with the Dems on policy, but not "bash" them for disagreeing.

Most Republicans have a unifying theme on the War, and they egg the Democrats for not having the same. With the exception of Lieberman, Democrat positions on the war essentially range from "Run Away" to "Run Away in two years"

That isn't bashing, that is politics. It is also a quite bit different from "lockstep" as you describe.

If you want to see party lockstep, look at what's happening to Lieberman who is being castigated by his own party for supporting the war.

Most repubs and conservatives think Democrats are misguided and foolish regarding their views on the war, but don't bash them for it.

Personally, my only problem is the Democrats who purposfully misrepresent facts for political gain. Murtha is king at this, but you can lump him in with all of the "War for Oil" "Bush Lied" crowd.

There's a big difference between...
...Bush's peace plan and Clinton's "piece" plan.

Poor writing and debating skills
Coulter's piece above is a smashing example of how I teach my 5th graders never to write or speak. Without even getting into her facts, to over-generalize by stating something as broad as "liberals believe..." or "Democrats believe..." is either ignorant or manipulative or both.

Even with the qualifiers "most" or "many" before "liberals" or "Democrats", there is no data cited to back up her statements, thereby making her statements pure opinion, stated as fact. Ann, there are liberals who want Israel to bomb Arabs, there are liberals of every stripe and description. Your essay does not serve the facts.

This habit Coulter probably learned from Limbaugh, who slaps his table poignantly after reading an isolated vignette demonstrating transgression by a liberal, stating "you see folks, this is what liberals do". There is no logical connection between the particular story and ALL liberals, nor any research showing any such pattern, it is an invented pattern that pundits have been using forever to build consensus against their nemeses, including all of the most famous propaganda campaigns in history. They are calling out the "follower" personality, who disdains independent thought and research.

If you do not recognize a statement being backed up by facts, research or a reasonably sensible explanation, demand better. Arm yourselves with logic people. Demand better reasoning from your pundits, whatever their political inclination. If you see the following, you are listening to a poor debater, and probably a media manipulator.

1. The tit-for-tat defense: "Bill Clinton did it too" is not a proper justification for Bush's actions. Two wrongs do not make a right. If it's wrong it's wrong and Bush should be prosecuted. Clinton was impeached.

2. Unequal comparisons: "Bill Clinton lied too". This excuse for BushCo fudging evidence presented to Congress and the UN in justifying an armed invasion of Iraq is a matter of degree. If you believe that a dirty tryst is as important as tens of thousands dying in combat - or surveilling US citizens without warrants - then they are equal statements. But then, why don't you impeach Bush for his lie as well?

3. The "straw man": a ridiculous exaggeration of a statement made to deflect from answering the issue. For example, "It's all Bush's fault, including Hurrican Katrina". Bush stands accused of misleading Congress, failing to respond in time, etc. The specific charges need to be responded too, but the 'straw man' distorts the accusations in scope and scale making Bush seem the victim. This is a cop out, just answer the specific question, thank you.

4. Kill the messenger: If you can't argue a point head-on, assassinate the character of the person who brought it up. This is handily, sometimes even poetically used by Sean Hannity and others in deflecting points raised by anti-Bush callers, using "liberal" or "lib" as a slur. Don't like what Ted Kennedy is saying about tax cuts for the rich? Bring up Chappaquiddick! The problem with character assassination is that you need to be whistle-clean yourself...need I say more.

5. Shut it out: What strikes me most about Coulter, Rush, Hannity and others is how readily they simply ignore big stories because they don't further their cause. The Abramoff scandal, the Downing Street memos, all are just shut out of coverage, nor will they give a guest or caller time to inform listeners.

6. Stating prediction as fact: As in "we'd all be wearing towels by now". If Nostrodamus and Jean Dixon can't accurately prognosticate, no way you're going to sway me.

Now let's talk content. Coulter's dangerous statement "I know this because there are parts of South Lebanon still standing" shows she has no compassion for the thousands of non-political Lebanese people who will be killed if the area was levelled. We know from her "rat poison" comment that she is very flip when it comes to life and death discussions and this is irresponsible when people are actually dying. As a conservative "shock jock" this may help her ratings and moneypurse, but as a socially responsible commentator, she is inhumanly cruel.

Here is pure Coulter opinion stated as fact: "The fact that Israel is able to launch an attack on Hezbollah today without instantly inciting a multination conflagration in the Middle East is proof of what Bush has accomplished." But in my opnion, this recent Israel/Lebanon/Syria/Iran escalation IS a multination conflagration, increasing daily. In fact, if we analyze what Bush has accomplished in the Middle East, I can't imagine that Israel wants to do in Lebanon what we've done in Iraq because Bush has underestimated the enemy, went overbudget, lost thousands of troops and pissed away his approval ratings at home, abroad and with US GIs on the ground.

Ann, here is how to form a proper argument. First state a premise, then support it with facts and research. Then add your opinion and commentary, showing how your premise is supported by the research. Avoid the above distortions and manipulations, and you've done your job. I know you are rich, I know you are popular but your methods of forming an argument clearly shoe-horn facts in to your pre-judged agenda.

You get an F in Debating and and F- in Ethics but you get an A+ for Pandering to Biased Right Wing Audiences.

Dems don't run...
Phylo wrote, "Dems will surely use force when necessary".

Left Angle wrote, "I have no doubt todays democratic party would do a much better job on National Defense than the mess that President Bush currently presides over".

Your proof is in Janet Reno's handling of Waco.

This is a teacher?
WWJD? writes:
Poor writing and debating skills

Perhaps you should move down a few grades before the 5th graders begin to outsmart you.

WWJD
Here is the problem with your arguments.

It IS possible to say "most" and "many" when discussing your political leaders. There aren't that many, and we can count.

Now on to your points, and the problem with your arguments.

1.)"Clinton did it too" - I have yet to hear anyone defend Bush's perjury, obstruction of justice, or witness tampering by saying that "Clinton did it too". Maybe that is because Bush, unlike Clinton, has not been credibly accused of felonies. Clinton was impeached because he committed serious crimes. If you have someone credibly accuse Bush of serious crimes, I’ll listen and support impeachment if it is warranted. Otherwise, you comments are fallacious.

2.) Unequal comparisons – It is unfair to compare the two. For one, Clinton performed his warrantless wiretaps without the justification of a war…oh, that wasn’t what you were talking about was it?...Bill Clinton DID perform warrantless wiretaps (and no, he did not follow FISA), as did Bush I, Reagan,…heck Carter’s warrantless wiretaps were the reason the FISA law was written! I’m not using the “Clinton did it to” to defend illegal behavior..I am pointing out that Bush was not indicted because he did not do anything illegal.

Regarding his “lie” on the war, this has been fully discredited as well. Bush did not cherry pick intelligence or misrepresent it. The Senate had access to the exact same intel. Bush did not “lie” about nuclear material from Africa. His statement was essentially “British intel told us this”. British Intel stick by the same story.

Considering you are a teacher, you really should be aware of the fact that being wrong doesn’t make you a liar. So, even if Bush IS proven wrong, that doesn’t mean he lied.

3.) Straw man – common political trick, both sides do it. Example: “I don’t believe in partial-birth abortion” turns into “He wants to limit a woman’s right to choose!”
I am not saying it is right, but it is unfair to castigate the Republicans for using a tactic that is also favored by the Democrats. I believe someone recently said “Two wrongs don’t make a right”.

4.) Kill the Messenger – See above, and do a bit of reading from the likes of Fraken, Dowd, Rall, Moore, etc. Listen to the speeches of McKinney, Rangel, Kennedy, Pelosi, Dean…..”two wrongs don’t make a right”

5.) Shut them out – Hmm…now where have I heard about this? Oh yeah! This is something that conservatives have been complaining about for years. The major news outlets continually bury stories and play up stories that are damaging to republicans/conservatives. The difference is, my dear, is that Coulter, Hannity, and Rush are pundits and expected to be biased, unlike say Dan Rather.

6.) Stating prediction as fact – Again, both sides do this.

For someone who teaches debate, you really don’t do it very well. You hit talking points pretty well, but you fall short when you constantly complain about Republicans pulling the same dirty tricks as the Dems.

Nice troll-work though! Come back real soon!

Sniffing Ann's bleach
Brian has been sniffing Ann's hair and the bleach has fried his brain:

'Well, Michael, I was in the 5th SF in Nam; Ann has my proxy to speak for me. How's that?'

Yeh I believe that like I believe Ann can think or write.

Its amazing how easy it is to say I served in 'nam [remember its not Vietnam]. Sorry Brian I think you flew in the same unit as Ann and 'W'.

Please go back to sniffing Ann's bleached hair.

BTW I was drafty; the Army just a SP4.

Michael Cassidy
Whether you believe Brian R was a SF troop in 'nam is immaterial to the rest of his comments.

Many of us find it a bit odd when people complain about Bush (or Coulter for that matter) discussing war policy having never served, and yet they still have no problem with a President who not only did not serve, but was openly derisive towards the military.

Serving or not serving in the military should not be a prerequisite for a discussion of policy any more than working in the Oil industry should be a requirement before complaining about high gas prices.

And since we are posting credentials: Two time vet, 1st Gulf War and current conflict. Gulf War - active duty, current conflict - activated reservist. Not a “True” vet as I never saw combat in either. Navy/Marine Corps – E-4/HM3

oh Lordy -- WWJD... where to begin...
I should probably start with "DO you go to DailyKOS or DemocraticUnderground and post this same diatribe there" because things are FAR worse over there... but that would violate your "tit for tat" rule, wouldn't it? But there is more to be said on your "tit for tat rule... let me explain.

""Bill Clinton did it too" is not a proper justification for Bush's actions" -- taken without any EXAMPLES (which you demand, yet do not give in YOUR post) you would be very correct. Two wrongs do not make a right. The example you use, however, is misleading. You see, when conservatives have said "Bill did it too" it refers to the reasons Bush gave for the Iraq war, and the FACT hardly ANY on the Left had any problem with it when Clinton used the SAME REASONS Bush did, when Clinton attacked Iraq. I have an MP3 of Clinton saying what a danger Hussein was, talking about his pursuing WMDS! It was tit for tat the SAME reasons Bush gave, yet no outcry from the Dems then! I'll be happy to send it to you, if you like!

2) We do not impeach Bush because he has not ADMITTED his perjury -- Clinton DID.(he took the Alford Plea) Bush has not been convicted of his "lies" -- yet -- and if he IS convicted, in a court of law, I will be right there alongside you screaming for his hide -- and Clinton's again, because if Bush lied about the WMDs, so did Slick Willie, and all those deaths WERE needless. Bush Bush didn't lie about that, neither did Clinton, so that is a moot point.

3) Bush IS a victim. He gets vilified by the Left for EVERYTHING he does, or does not. Blaming Katrina on him is as ludicrous as the Left's "rush to Iraq" theories that he KNEW his intel was faulty. Bush trusts OTHERS to do his spying for him, trusts OTHERS to handle things like Katrina -- much of the things he is accused of, he had little to do with. THe persons MOST responsible for the debacle of the Katrina lack-of-response, are the LA governor, and Mayor Ray Nagin. I cannot BELEIVE he got re-elected... fleets of busses underwater that could have been evacuating people... unforgivable. But the governor... Bush can NOT do ANYTHING until an offical request for help comes from the state of LA, and no such request came. It is part of State's Rights... a concept which, to the chagrin of our Founding Fathers, is dying, but not dead yet. Bush LEGALLY could not do anything, because LA's governor had not asked.

4) Ann DOES vilify her Liberal Enemies... but she tears down their arguments too. Oh but wait, you don't accuse her of that, you use Sean Hannity, don't you? Are you not violating your own "unequal comparisons" rule here? Or can you do what you say Ann should, and provide me examples of HER "killing the messenger" WITHOUT also tearing their arguments to shreds?

5)"Shut it out" -- Please. Ann, nor Hannity, nor Colmes, nor ANY writer, Conservative, Liberal, or Independant, has time to write on even MOST of the issues. They must pick a topic that sparks their muse, and write. But again, the LLL is guilty of the same thing. Don't see you over on DailyKOS with this rant.

6)I MIGHT give you this one, but, when I see Ann making predictions like that -- I have yet to see her make one that is not at least plausible. Most seem dead-on accurate, IMHO.

Your whole next paragraph, "Now let's talk content. Coulter's dangerous statement "I know this because there are parts of South Lebanon still standing" shows she has no compassion for the thousands of non-political Lebanese people who will be killed if the area was levelled. We know from her "rat poison" comment that she is very flip when it comes to life and death discussions and this is irresponsible when people are actually dying. As a conservative "shock jock" this may help her ratings and moneypurse, but as a socially responsible commentator, she is inhumanly cruel." -- this can also apply to YOU. Because just as obviously, YOU have no compassion for any of the innocent Israelis dying in suicide bombings, getting kidnapped, rocketed down... lady, in war, BOTH sides suffer. Israel FINALLY decided to fight the war that had ALREADY been declared on them.

Finally, "Bush has underestimated the enemy, went overbudget, lost thousands of troops and pissed away his approval ratings at home, abroad and with US GIs on the ground" -- you are guilty of the same things you slam Coulter for!! You cite no research her eto support YOUR premise! Or have you interviewed even 10 percent of the GIs on the ground to know this? Doubt it! And those thousands of troops? Would have likely been TENS of thousands had Bush insisted on running this war himself, as Vietnam was by LBJ. The Iraq war has gone very, very well. The scumbags there are using the same tactics Hezbollah does -- hiding behind innocent civilians. Bush, and Israel, are trying to put a stop to them, and to future attacks ON innocents. Why are you and the Democrats opposed to that?

the "nam" stories
Excellent post by Michael Cassidy, and just a few facts for "Brian";

1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August, 1995 (census figures).

~ During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in Vietnam was: 9,492,958.

As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511.

During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not. We found a few of them in the last election.


Contrary to popular liberal opinion watching "Stripes" in you underwear doesn't make you a veteran.

hey CraigcTX
Be sure to post your credentials,

apparently we aren't allowed to discuss military policy unless we've served.

Oh wait! I'm not a webmaster, how can I complain about forum rules when I have never ran a forum?

please disregard!

And Cassidy....
.....Reagan wasn't alone in pulling the troops out of Lebanon.

He caved during an election year, which he should not have done.

But, EVERY SINGLE Democratic Primary Candidate called for the troops to be pulled out as well as a strong call for the same from the Democratically controlled Congress.


Michael:
Re: your posit that the Dems would go to war against conservatives, the only war they'd really fight.

I had to laugh.

Who owns all the guns in this country?

Good post, bro.

LeftAngle:
You say Demoncrats have a diversity of opinion.

Are you nuts, or is your head just stuck in the sand?

Lieberman has the stones to stand up and support the WOT, and...WHOA!... he's a pariah in the party. He wandered off the ole Lib Plantation. Can't have that.

You guys are a party of rigid ideology that brooks NO individuality.

Get real!

WWJD's Comments
First off, let me congratulate you on attempting to make a logical, reasoned argument. True, you are wrong at every turn, but at least you made the attempt, separating yourself from the vast majority of your fellow liberals. It is ironic that the very tactics you decry are most frequently employed by liberals--ending the argument by declaring the opponent to be a racist, homophobe, religious nut, etc. Anyway, let's look at your arguments.

First, generally speaking, you do not seem to recognize that Ann is in the entertainment and opinion business, not the debating club. She is not required, nor would her readers expect her, to back up every statement with the relevant facts. Interestingly, you have not offered any facts that would counter any of her statements.

1) "Bill Clinton did it too" - Where in her article do you see Ann defending Bush's policy by saying that Bill Clinton did it too? She brings up Clinton's failed Oslo accords to refute the absurd statement by Howard Dean that had a Democrat been elected, there would be no Israel/Arab conflict in the Middle East. To be fair, I believe that Clinton was making a good-faith effort to establish peace--the point is that no peace is possible when one of the parties is unswervingly dedicated to the destruction of the other. She also brought up Clinton's N.Korea policy to bolster her point that appeasement never works, and to refute the Democrats' claims that somehow N Korean nukes are Bush's fault. In neither case is she justifying Bush's position by comparing it to Clinton's, so your point is moot. It is true that Clinton was impeached (wrongly so, in my opinion, and it hurt the Republican party), but you offer no evidence that Bush should be "prosecuted" - for committing what crime?

2) "Unequal comparisons / Clinton lied too" - again, where do you see this in Coulter's article? What conservative has EVER said this? It is unequivocally true that Clinton lied under oath about Monica Lewinski. He has lied on many other occasions as well. But no conservative has ever offered this as justification for Bush lying for the simple reason that Bush DID NOT LIE. Liberals keep laboring under the belief that if the Daily Kossaks and the liberal media repeat that Bush lied often enough, it will become true. Unfortunately, there is no evidence that he lied.
- WMD were just one of many justifications for the war in Iraq (which we are winning, despite the best efforts of the Dems and their media mouthpieces to tell us otherwise)
- WMD have been discovered in Iraq, as was revealed by the recently partially-declassified document released by Senator Santorum (and quickly buried by the media)
- It is highly likely that much of Saddam's chem and bio weapons were moved to Syria in the 10 month "rush to war"
- Even if there were no WMD, this does not mean that Bush lied. If so, how did he get Kerry, Kennedy and all the rest to lie too? And before you bring out the tired old chestnut of "cherry picking" the intelligence, please explain how he got Bill Clinton, Madeleine Albright, Al Gore and the rest to lie about the weapons in the late '90's. How did he get the French intelligence to lie? How about the Egyptians? Russians? British? United Nations?!?
- Perhaps you should go back and read the bi-partisan Duelfer report, which stated among other things that there was no evidence that the administration attempted to influence the CIA's findings, and that Saddam was prepared to rapidly re-deploy his nuclear program after the removal of sanctions. So please, give this "Bush Lied" yarn a rest!

3) Straw man - You are misusing the term. Pointing out the fact that Bush is blamed for everything that goes wrong (including, believe it or not, the French soccer player head-butt in the World Cup!)does not constitute a straw man--if true, it would be a deflection. Claims that Bush misled congress have been refuted in full (see above). Does it also not strike you as odd that Bush, whom the Dems declare to be a moron, was so easily able to mislead all of the Dem geniuses like John "D-Student" Kerry who had access to all of the same intelligence? Katrina response has been addressed as well, but space does not permit the repetition of all of those arguments here.

4) Kill the messenger - again, where do you see this in this particular article? The fact that Sean Hannity accurately labels liberals offers no proof that he does not refute their arguments. I have heard Hannity refute the liberal lie of "tax cuts for the rich" on many occasions. For your edification, the tax cuts were for everyone who paid taxes, not just the rich. Further, the Laffer Curve was again proven to be true as evidenced by increased government tax revenues after the marginal rate cut, a fact that libs are completely unable to comprehend. Bringing up "The Swimmer's" heinous actions is warranted when questioning his right to impugn the morals of men of impeccable character like Roberts and Allito. Finally, liberals make a living out of character assassination. Bush lied, Bush knew about 9/11 in advance, Bush went to war to enrich oil companies, Republicans are scum bags, Bush blew up the levies in New Orleans, Republicans are racist, etc, etc -- any of this sound familiar?

5) Shut it out - I hate to repeat myself, but what does that have to do with this article? Sean Hannity has repeatedly stated that any Republican involved in corruption should be driven from office and prosecuted. What is "shut out" is Democrats' connections to Abramhof. The Downing Street Memo is nothing more than opinion--it is only a "big story" because the media sensed they could use it to undermine Bush. Nor is Hannity to be blamed for not allowing lib callers to go on a ramble through lib talking points.

6) Stating prediction as fact - finally, something to do with the article! For your info, that's what opinion writers and prognosticators do--state opinions about future outcomes, both real and imagined. None of them are fact, nor does Coulter or anyone else claim them to be (except the global warming accolytes).

7) South Lebanon still standing - How odd that liberals, despite all of their vaunted nuance, are completely unable to grasp sarcasm? Let me spell it out for you--she is trying to illustrate by offering an extreme example that arguments that Israel's response is "not proportional" are wrong. She doesn't really want to kill everyone in Lebanon.

8) Bush's accomplishments - Actually, there are only two nations actively involved - Lebanon and Israel - although Syria and Iran have their filthy hands all over it. Coulter is pointing out that absent our liberation of Iraq and Afghanistan, Arab leaders in countries like Saudi Arabia and Jordan would probably not be condemning Hezbollah. Again mastering the obvious, you reveal that this is her opinion. And I painfully repeat, that's what opinion writers do--in this case I believe that the opinion is reasonable, though you of course disagree. Regarding your other points in the paragraph:
- What war hasn't gone over budget, gone differently than anticipated or cost lives? None of this offers any proof that it is not justified or worthwhile.
- Unlike Clinton, Bush governs based on firmly held beliefs and principles, not on polls. Yes, his approval ratings have dropped, but this is more a reflection of gas prices (whatever happened to "no war for oil?"), American's short attention span in a drawn out conflict and the persistent ability of the MSM to convince people that a booming economy is in fact a recession.
- What proof do you have that Bush's approval ratings have dropped with GI's? Bush enjoys massive approval among military personnel.
- Only liberals care what the French think about us.

So to wrap up, you have attempted to refute Ann Coulter's arguments by bringing up fallacious claims of tactics used by other conservatives in other situations, with no factual back up. This type of weak argument might pass muster with 5th graders, but I'm afraid I must give your analysis an "F"

To WWJD?: DUH!
>> there is no data cited to back up her statements, thereby making her statements pure opinion <<

DUH, she writes an OPINION column.

Besides, there's a history of Dems and leftists doing exactly what she says they did. What there is NO evidence of is anything Dowd opines about n the NYT. She has been PROVEN FALSE many, many times, but no one in the "main-stream" media seems to notice.

WWJD:
Thank you for your insipid "analysis" of Ann's column. I have nothing but pity for your 5th grade students. I assume their parents have no clue as to how vapid and blathering you are.

Ann states her opinion as fact: correct. It's a column, limited in length -- as opposed to your windy post, apparently -- therefore she makes her comments pithy without a whole bunch of cites or qualifications. Those she uses in her books. Check it out.

Further, from my experience, she's got it right on the nose. Your first example is right on point. You say there are liberals who want Israel to bomb Arabs. Well, putting aside your own generalization, i.e. you say "Arabs" when the real targets are specifically Hamas and Hezbollah, she's right. I can't think of any Lefties in the public eye supporting Israel. Maybe your friend down the street whom no one knows is just such a lib. That's meaningless. Who cares about Joe Blow in your home town?

BTW, WWJD. I assume that means What Would Jesus Do. Y'know, I bet right now he'd dust off his sandals and kick some terrorist ass.

Michael Cassidy:
You really are a frickin moron.

You know what, loser? It really doesn't matter one whit to me whether or not you believe me; standard Lefty tactics are to try to discredit whatever you can't overcome logically, ad hominem attacks.

So here's one comin" right back atcha. As we used to say in the Nam in which, according to you,I never served - "payback is a Mother______"

You are a mentally deficient mental midget whose onlyesponse to my original post was a very feeble attempt at misdirection.

You never did even ATTEMPT to answer my paragraph in which I wondered when you lily-livered leftist cowards and traitors got such religion over a politician' combat record, since it didn't seem to mean a thing when Clinton the Draft Dodger was President.

I'll tell you something else, schmuck. You want only combat vets to set military policiy? You ain't gonna like the outcome. Yeah, you guys have a few vocal vets like Kerry and Murtha, but the vast VAST majority are guys like ME.

Eat that, loser.

Hockey Goon:
I read "Stolen Valor", too. Big deal.

By your own statistics, don't forget that there are a lot of people who really WERE there.

Once again, I don't care whether or not you or Michael Dipstick believe me; I wrote that in my original post to make a rhetorical point. If we ever meet in person you can see my VSM and VCM.

Lefty,
I wouldn't exactly call one man (Lieberman) a diversity of opinion.

Muslims and the French..................
Two of the most inept fighters when it comes to war and the American left loves them both......tells you something doesn't it?
And don't hand me that crap we owe American freedom to the French.Do you think Louis xvi helped America because he liked the sound of "government by the people" instead of some king in our Declaration of Independence? Do you think he helped because he liked the sound of God given rights instead of some king? Do you think he liked our revolution so much he had his own 13 years later? Or do you think he wanted Canada back from the British?

Gault
Excellent post except for two things.

1.) Straw man - have to give credit where credit is due, she did use the term correctly though she didn't phrase it very well. Her example was the easily refuted argument (the straw man) that the Republicans used, i.e. "Bush was responsible for Katrina and the levees" to distract from the real criticisms "Bush did not handle the aftermath very well"
Her analysis was completely off, but she did use the term right.

2.) Bill Clinton's impeachment - I can't really argue with another person's opinion, but if we can't impeach someone for lying under oath, witness tampering, subourning perjury from others, and obstructing justice what CAN we impeach someone for?
My only beef with the Clinton impeachment was it was over what was essentially a trivial matter (his behavior wasn't, but the Paula Jones case was) instead of his significantly larger gaffs.

Epsilon:
True, it would have been great to impeach Billy Drop Trou for his sale of strategic materials to China and Korea -- treason, anyone? -- but the actual items of impeachment weren't for his Drop Trou act with any of the women (nor for his acts of rape against Broderick et al, unfortunately) but for perjury.

Though exonerated by the Senate on the impeachment charges, he ultimately entered a guilty plea in a plea bargain arrangement, and was subsequently sanctioned, including decertification by the Bar and loss of his ability to appear before the Supreme Court as an advocate.

Though the sentences were ridiculously light -- and seem not to embarrass him nor his supporters at all, as they can't seem to keep their idiotic mouths shut and fade gracefully into the woodwork -- he is definitely damaged goods historically.

Of course, to that redneck a__hole, I'm not sure that really means all that much.

Epsilon, Thanks for the compliment...
Regarding Straw Man argument, it was my impression that this refers to an exageration or mischaracterization of your opponent's argument which you can then shoot down...I'm not sure that definition applies in this case.

Regarding impeaching Clinton, I certainly understand your argument. Liberals falsely claim that he was impeached for his sexual peccadiloes, rather than perjury. However, there is a nagging bit of truth at the bottom of this--it was perjury over a relatively minor, non-criminal matter that did not impact national security. Not unlike prosecuting Scooter Libby over perjury regarding a non-crime. While certainly deserving of a rebuke or censure, this doesn't seem to rise to the level of a crime worthy of removing a President. I also have the feeling that this was a fall back position--to put it in terms the Slickster would understand, the ugly chick you know you can call that night and bang if nothing else is happening. Transfering military technology to China in exchange for illegal campaign contributions does rise to this level, but never seemed to have been thoroughly investigated, let alone proven. Ditto FBI files on 900 political enemies (they got away with the "whoops, my bad" excuse that worked so well for Sandy Berger). Finally, I must admit to being snake charmed by his undeniable personal magnetism and likeability. There is a part of me that wants to believe that he was just the naughty boy, while it was the cold and calculating Hillary that was responsible for the really bad stuff. Anyway, I don't feel strongly about it and could be convinced otherwise, although I do believe that the perceived witch hunt against Clinton hurt Republicans at election time (how ironic that moveon hasn't grasped this, nor the fact that Bush is never running again)

Ann
Holy Mother of Blogs! Well done Annie! Seventy-three posts in less then 24 hours and lots of meaty ripostes too.

WWJD
Not to pile on, but are you familiar with the concept of deductive reasoning? Your assertion, “Here is pure Coulter opinion stated as fact: ‘The fact that Israel is able to launch an attack on Hezbollah today without instantly inciting a multination conflagration in the Middle East is proof of what Bush has accomplished.’" leads me to think not. Allow me to break it down for you. Since the Bush administration has overthrown fanatical regimes, and since fanatical regimes are fearful of being overthrown, therefore fanatical regimes are fearful of the Bush administration. Mind you, there are varying degrees of fanatical regimes and the most virulent will not be dissuaded by anything less than their own demise. Towards that end, I could not help but think of Golda Meir’s words, "There will be peace in the Middle East when Arab mothers love their children more than they hate the Jews." Sadly, love for their children has taken on a macabre logic; sacrificing their children in suicide missions to bring death to the infidels, with the implied promise of insuring their (children’s) place in paradise.

You criticize Bush and posit concerns of: “[He] underestimated the enemy, went overbudget, lost thousands of troops and pissed away his approval ratings at home, abroad and with US GIs on the ground.” Here’s another look at deductive reasoning for you. Since the Bush administration has stopped terrorism on U.S. soil, and since terrorism on U.S. soil is one of the stated goals of fanatical Islamists, therefore the Bush administration has stopped one of the stated goals of fanatical Islamists. Does that mean they won't ever be successful? Hardly, but Bush knew he had to take the battle to our enemies, in order to frustrate their plans, and so as not to lose tens of thousands at home – at all cost. I haven’t seen where polls and approval ratings have mattered much to George and that’s admirable; it implies integrity. Anyone can set their sails to fair weather; it takes courage to know and to stay the course despite the winds of adversity. The world; the world is a fickle thing and many of those “abroad” have their own agenda. As to, “US GIs” approval; in my limited purview, all the ones’ (daughter, son-in-law and friend – all active duty) I’m most closely associated with, are not only supportive of the President, they’re fed up with the duplicitous Democrats.

Re-visit "tough talk".
Russia lurks and smirks and loves the puppets works, and China wines and dines as the puppets lie as others die, so silken these asian sighs and lies, "not our rockets in their pockets" why
do we try to dance like these on the puppet strings for we cannot dance this evil dance the way these evil puppets dance.

Dear American Leadership..

TEAN DOWN THIS FACTORY OF ROCKETS AND PUPPETS THAT IS IRAN

Cutter Bench: The demands of logic
"Since the Bush administration has overthrown fanatical regimes, and since fanatical regimes are fearful of being overthrown, therefore fanatical regimes are fearful of the Bush administration. "

I don't agree - I think your assertion that he has overthrown fanatical regime(s??) incorrectly implies that he has achieved positive in Iraq or the Middle East. He may have splintered the Baathist regime - let's even say 'overthrown' for argument's sake, but he has less control of the country now then Saddam did. There is more murder, mayhem, less safety, less functioning infrastructure, basic needs for the people, etc. I respectfully think our continuing struggle in Iraq (is that fair to say?) has if anything emboldened Iran, Afghani insurgents and ironically, the democratically elected Hezbollah and Hamas. It's clear we cannot meet military recruiting targets, are in generations of debt over this and aren't gaining territory, nor the hearts and minds of anyone worldwide except for American neocons.

I think your deductive reasoning was weak there.

"sacrificing their children in suicide missions to bring death to the infidels, with the implied promise of insuring their (children’s) place in paradise."

But by the same standard of logic, we told our children that Saddam had WMD, ties to al Qaeda and plans to do us harm. Bush/Cheney, by your own logic is equally guilty of lying to their young to get them to go into battle and die for land or resources.

"Since the Bush administration has stopped terrorism on U.S. soil, and since terrorism on U.S. soil is one of the stated goals of fanatical Islamists, therefore the Bush administration has stopped one of the stated goals of fanatical Islamists."

Faulty logic! If there hasn't been another attack on US soil in 5 years, why don't you credit Clinton for an 8-year run without any attacks? If there IS another attack will you admit Bush has failed?? You cannot know the terrorists timetable, therefore you cannot credit Bush with stopping them. Don't forget Bush's State Dept. released figures in 2003 taking credit for lessening of terrorist attacks across the world but had blundered the figures, finding out after the announcement that terrorist attacks worldwide had increased to their highest levels in decades. This was Colin Powells famous "We got the numbers wrong" embarrassment. He didn't apologize but we know now how he calculates success and why he is so silent since.

"I haven’t seen where polls and approval ratings have mattered much to George and that’s admirable; it implies integrity."

So inandofitself, does that mean Nixon had integrity? What's the line between setting one's sails to fair weather and losing touch with the overwhelming majority in a representative democracy? Also to say "the world is a fickle place" is a poor foreign policy outlook. Most analysis after 9/11 agreed it was going to take a whole lot of international cooperation to truly prevent similar terror attacks and having the whole world except Israel and Spain despise your policies and bragadoccio is, in my view, a horrible way to win the war on terror.


"in my limited purview, all the ones’ (daughter, son-in-law and friend – all active duty) I’m most closely associated with, are not only supportive of the President, they’re fed up with the duplicitous Democrats"

Exactly why we do polls scientifically, surveying a broad cross section of GIs to take representative samples and extrapolate the views of the many, not one guys' pals in particular. Personally I weight the views of the GIs on the ground more then the rest of us back home and I hope Bush doesn't ignore them due to his "integrity". The tribe has spoken, as they say.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your passion and attempt to apply any reasoning to Bush's policies in a civil discourse, though I respectfully do not agree.

Brian R - Jesus as a death dealer!
"Your first example is right on point. You say there are liberals who want Israel to bomb Arabs. Well, putting aside your own generalization, i.e. you say "Arabs" when the real targets are specifically Hamas and Hezbollah, she's right."

I think you're confusing my statement on generalization. If there is even one liberal that doesn't agree, then Coulter's use of the word "liberals" in her statement like "Liberals believe this or that" is factually inaccurate, begging for the qualifiers, "some" or "many" or "most", for example. This lumping-together of liberals which is just not so, and that shows a bias. If you excuse this, then I have the right to state in a public Op-Ed piece something like "Republicans love unprescribed Oxycontin". I hope you see the distinction.

"I assume that means What Would Jesus Do. Y'know, I bet right now he'd dust off his sandals and kick some terrorist ass."

I think there is a consensus that Jesus was a pacifist and thought it best to "turn the other cheek" but if your version of Jesus wages war, I hope he gets the right guy before he kicks their ass.


Hi WWJD
Since you attempt to keep your posts civil, I shall endeavor to do the same.

You do have a few faulty facts and conclusions that I hope to clear up if I may.

1.) Bush/Cheney = to Terrorist mothers
This correlation would be correct if two particular pieces of the puzzle in place. Unfortunately, they are not so your logic is faulty.

Specifically, unlike terrorist suicide bombers who have a survival rate of less than 1% (and those are the ones who are considered to have failed), American GI's have a much better chance of surviving a tour in Iraq (over 99%). So, a mother who lies to a child and sends them to almost certain death is not the same as a political leader who influences a soldier to go fight.
Also, as we have discussed, Bush and Cheney did not lie. This has been investigated and re-investigated, always with the same conclusion. If you are so convinced they did lie, perhaps you would care to enlighten us. Or are you willing to admit you have no proof, just a hunch?

2.) Clinton had no attacks for 8 years - disregarding the non-Islamic related terrorism, the attacks that did not happen on American soil (Khobar Towers), the attacks that "technically" happened on American soil, but not continental United States (USS Cole, Embassy Bombings), there was still the first WTC bombing under Clinton.
So, being that Clinton's America got hit about once every 2 years (by Al Qaeda) and Bush's America has not been hit since 9-11 (almost 5 years) you can draw a possible correlation between the two events. I am not saying you can conclusively say one event caused the other, but you cannot completely dismiss the possibility either.

3.) The country has less infrastructure and services. I think you will find that is not correct in either Afghanistan or Iraq. The most conservative estimates put the infrastructure at least at pre-war levels with most estimates stating increases in children’s immunizations, electrical power, and other essential services. As for the regimes being emboldened, I’d have to say the Iraqi and Afghani people don’t seem to think so as they seemed quite eager to display their blue fingers after the last election. Afghanistan, by all reasonable estimates, has been a resounding success. Why do you think it is rarely mentioned by Democrats?

4.) Regarding ratings and approval polls – As a person who has been active within the last year, I can assure that the majority of individuals may not have agreed with all of the execution of the war, agreed that it was an important war to be fought. I did have one individual who prescribed to the “Michael Moore” conspiracy ideal, and an officer who did not agree…but they were, by far, the exception not the rule. This includes one individual who was being deployed for his 4 tour in 3 years, a friend who had just gotten back and immediately requested redeployment, and the majority of my duty station (which had over a 100% deployment rate). This is also in line with the poll conducted by the Navy Times which restated what we already knew. The troops (even those identifying themselves as Democrats) believe in the mission, believe in the war, and believe it is being mischaracterized by the media.
Recruitment and re-enlistment is down, but that is not always indicative to dissatisfaction in the troops. Recruitment levels were at extremely low levels under Clinton because the job market was good and the military pay was not. Couple low pay, cut benefits, and several deployments and re-upping for another round doesn’t always look as appealing.

JohnGalt - thanks, I tried
Hi John, I appreciate your discourse. A few thoughts. I brought up an extremely typical argument used not only by Ann but Rush, Sean and so many others. "Clinton did it too" was not in this particular article, but a popular fall back of hers. Even your reply has an "Unlike Clinton..." Sorry for the confusion if you thought it was in the specific piece, but you proved how common it is.

"...when one of the parties is unswervingly dedicated to the destruction of the other."

Isn't it a possibility the Arabs/Palestinians are simply seeking land back? I was taught this conflagration began chiefly when Israel was awarded Palestine as theirs in the late 40s/early 50s but which was heavily populated by Palestinians who then had the choice to leave or be absorbed and that they swore they would have their holy land back even if if took generations.

"...Bush should be "prosecuted" - for committing what crime?"

There's a whole site on that and articles of impeachment, but I'd say the most egregious criminal activity for which there is solid proof at present is breaking the FISA law devised after Nixon surveilled without warrants. Lying to Congress and torturing detainees will be harder to pin up him personally, but if there was a hundred million dollar commission set up with a special prosecutor, it might turn up some stuff.


2) "Unfortunately, there is no evidence that he lied. "

Please explain the campaign speech in Buffalo, NY on April 2004 when NSA spying was underway without warrants, which I've heard with my own ears. Another example is an appearance on Polish TV May 29, 2003, according to factcheck.org Bush said on camera: "We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

"...the war in Iraq (which we are winning, despite the best efforts of the Dems and their media mouthpieces to tell us otherwise)"

I respectfully disagree - I listen to as many sources as possible, left, right, networks, BBC. I hear that the green zone has shrunken, average deaths are way up today, infrastructure is worse then during Saddam, Taliban captured two towns this week, etc. Please share with me your empirical metrics as to how to measure whether we are winning.

"WMD have been discovered in Iraq, as was revealed by the recently partially-declassified document released by Senator Santorum (and quickly buried by the media)"

I'm amazed you brough that up - I saw live on Hannity/Colmes that his WMDs were outed as being pre-1991. THAT is why it died in the press the very same night. Fox still has the clip online.

"- It is highly likely that much of Saddam's chem and bio weapons were moved to Syria in the 10 month "rush to war"

Or used up by then, whatever. My point was the intel didn't show WMD present before the war.

"- Even if there were no WMD, this does not mean that Bush lied. If so, how did he get Kerry, Kennedy and all the rest to lie too?"

By assuring them they had done the homework. They said the evidence was a "slamdunk" and Congress trusted them. They listened to Powell, Tenet, Cheney and Rumsfeld but their statement turned out to be lies. You're seeking to "spread the blame", no? Actually Kennedy opposed the war in his vote.

"And before you bring out the tired old chestnut of "cherry picking" the intelligence, please explain how he got Bill Clinton, Madeleine Albright, Al Gore and the rest to lie about the weapons in the late '90's."

Saddam had chemical weapons then!

Didn't you know Saddam bought chemical weapons from the US and UK, according to the Sunday Herald (UK) with Donald Rumsfeld meeting Saddam as a special envoy of Ronald Reagan representing chemical interests. We sold Saddam anthrax, e. coli and more so he could kill his enemies and get a leg up on Iran, just like we gave Osama bin Laden millions to fight the Russians.

"there was no evidence that the administration attempted to influence the CIA's findings..."

That's not what Colin Powell's chief of staff admitted on the PBS sho NOW, saying the info was not vetted properly, quoting Powell. Also I saw Hans Blix report right on camera that Cheney instructed him he should back up Bush or he will be discredited. Heavy stuff, no?

"Bush, whom the Dems declare to be a moron, was so easily able to mislead all of the Dem geniuses like John "D-Student" Kerry who had access to all of the same intelligence?"

It seems both Bush and Kerry relied on others...my apologies if by "Bush" I sometimes meant his cabinet, cronies, etc. Kerry gets a low mark for not independently checking, but the executive should get lower for using Curveball and Chalabi's claims as gospel in the State of the Union, so let's punish them accordingly.


" the tax cuts were for everyone who paid taxes, not just the rich."

The cuts on the middle class were negligible. The two-step method of boosting the economy by rewarding the richest, then waiting for the benefits to trickle down to benefit the greatest number of Americans seems like it could be simplified and improved by removing one step. I see a lot of smoke and mirrors in the rich trying to convince others class that changing laws to add to their wealth is just. I hope you are rich sir!

"What is "shut out" is Democrats' connections to Abramhof."

Educate me!

"The Downing Street Memo is nothing more than opinion"

Why were the leakers prosecuted? Why was no denial made by Bush? I guess we'll have to see how it plays out.

"South Lebanon still standing - How odd that liberals, despite all of their vaunted nuance, are completely unable to grasp sarcasm?"

Jesus Christ! Is that supposed to be clever and entertaining??


"there are only two nations actively involved - Lebanon and Israel - although Syria and Iran have their filthy hands all over it.

I consider funding and providing logistic support active involvement. Maybe we disagree on nomenclature.

"Coulter is pointing out that absent our liberation of Iraq and Afghanistan, Arab leaders in countries like Saudi Arabia and Jordan would probably not be condemning Hezbollah. Again mastering the obvious, you reveal that this is her opinion."

I think she owes it to the reader to throw in an occasional "I think..." or "I believe..." or "I feel..." or "I predict...", especially when your opinion is interspersed with "facts", stats and history. It's just for clarity's sake, no? You might be more forgiving and sympathetic as a fan, but editors used to police these pieces for journalistic integrity much more.

"What war hasn't gone over budget..."

The 3-day war, Granada....

"this is more a reflection of gas prices (whatever happened to "no war for oil?"), American's short attention span in a drawn out conflict and the persistent ability of the MSM to convince people that a booming economy is in fact a recession."

Disagree! Thousands were protesting this war in the streets when oil was under $2 and the first soldier hadn't been killed - it's just the wrong country! Bush's un-popularity has been a slow and steady graph down, punctuated by Katrina. In fact, he had approval rating 10-15% less during the 2004 elections then his first term average, making it suspicious that he got 11 million more votes. And why is the price of oil so high under three-branch GOP rule? Not their fault? What are they doing to fix it?

I think the problem with the "growing" economy is that it's growing for the biggest corporations and richest, disproportionally to everyone else. In other words costs are going up terribly for the middle and lower class and the rich are getting richer then ever. The economy is growing, but not for the masses - we're paying rising costs, getting lowered wages, savings on average has become negative for the first time and we are far worse off then previous administrations.

"- What proof do you have that Bush's approval ratings have dropped with GI's? Bush enjoys massive approval among military personnel."

Zogby International. Google it! Main reason given is that they were told Saddam had WMDs without any actual evidence.

Thanks for taking the time to write.

To WWJD - A Sincere Thanks
WWJD - thank you so much for reminding me of why I send my children to a private school, I’m being sincere and serious. This coming year is going to be a financial challenge and I was contemplating placing them in public school. But your post helped clarify to me what my priorities should be; insuring that my contribution to the next generation will be academically well-rounded, grounded in the God’s word and law, and in tune with God’s divine plan for their lives.

PS: why did you choose WWJD for your handle/ID?

Pout Pout




EpsilonDao writes: Thursday, July, 20, 2006 4:59 PM
Michael Cassidy

"Whether you believe Brian R was a SF troop in 'nam is immaterial to the rest of his comments.

Many of us find it a bit odd when people complain about Bush (or Coulter for that matter) discussing war policy having never served, and yet they still have no problem with a President who not only did not serve, but was openly derisive towards the military."

Actually I never discussed Clinton at all; whether I liked him or not. I made fun of Coulter and her support of Bush because she did what seems to be her schtick “Democrats [Liberals] = cowards and traitors”.

As for Brian's service. When I was at Ft. Bragg what I noticed was that there were few SFs. Later, about 15-20 years, I suddenly noticed that many white upper middle class guys were telling me war stories and none were ever clerks or cooks. Everyone was a SF, a Tunnel rat, and LURP, and if they were in the Navy they didn't server on a ship in the Atlantic but were Seals [of cause HILO] and in the Air Force all flew jets. After "We were young once" came out suddenly I kept running into guys that were in the Air Cav. Yeh, and ALL did missions in Laos and Cambodia.

As for Clinton's record its the same as W’s record they both hide.

My dad was mad at me for serving. He was in the Navy 11 months before Pearl and was at Pearl and just about every major battle in the Pacific. He said after I let myself go in [I could have gotten out but I was too much ‘blue collar’ to take a deferment] that he felt he had served long enough for 10 generations of our family.

When Brain stummers out:

“You lefties really think you hit gold with this silly argument, but all it does is highlight your own hypocrisy. Where was your "military experience" argument when the Draft Dodger in Chief was President? Where was your support for Dole (shot to pieces in the Italian campaign) or Bush 1 (youngest Navy fighter pilot in WW2 and shot down over Ie Jima)?”

Lets see: I'm a‘left' because I do not agree with Coutler and her silly tactics. We hear about Bush 1; we hear about Dole but what about Bush 2. Actually his argument would have been stronger if he had named Lincoln who never served and was a great president during a war and a Republican.





WWJD
Hello again, WWJD

I’m back for another round.

Palestinians land – it has been highly documented that the area granted the Israelis was primarily Israeli and the land granted the Palestinians was primarily Arab. The entire area was desolate before the Jews started migrating back and who’s industry created jobs which attracted the large Arab population. In other words, prior to Jewish immigration no one wanted the land.

Which brings us to the crux of the argument: “Do you feel Israel has a right to exist in any way shape or form?” I only ask because the fanatics will accept nothing less than the total destruction of Israel.

Impeachment - Your impeachment hopes for W don’t look good if you relying entirely on those two arguments two bring home the gold.

NSA wiretapping – The Supreme Court has not ruled on this issue. The last wiretapping case they ruled on was in the Nixon era and it specifically avoided the question of warrantless intelligence surveillance on foreign agents “within or without this country”. Though they did not rule on the Constitutionality, the fact that they differentiated between domestic spying for domestic groups and domestic spying for foreign intel set the basis that the subjects are two separate ones. The two federal court cases (US vs Truong, and In Re: Sealed Case 2002) have both reasserted the President’s Constitutional authority to conduct foreign intel related domestic spying without warrant. FISA is a tool that he can use to introduce the evidence into a criminal trial, but does not limit the President’s Constitutional Authority to spy on foreign agents for intel purposes. This has been confirmed by a review of the federal cases, run by the FISA appeals court, and even signed off on the guy who wrote the FISA law in the first place.
So, unless the Supreme Court overrules the precedence set by the lower courts, the the President is golden. And if they do, it is still not a crime because the current case law reaffirmed his authority to ignore FISA if he chooses.
Now, as a civil libertarian, I agree this brings up a mess of privacy concerns, but that doesn’t mean it is illegal. That also doesn’t mean that the Democrats still won’t try to impeach. Impeachment is a political move after all.

Lying in a speech about a Top Secret Program – um…yeah, so? I fully expect the President to not tell the truth about classified programs.

Lying to Congress – when?

Lying – WMD have been found, though they have not been recently manufactured WMD’s. That being said, Bush claimed:
Saddam had WMD’s – True & confirmed
Saddam had links to terrorists – True & confirmed
Saddam had bio labs – True and Confirmed
Saddam had weapons programs – True and Confirmed (not active programs, but still programs)
Saddam had not gotten rid of his WMD stash like he was supposed to (True and Confirmed)

The one sticking point you may have is that Bush claimed Saddam had Active Programs which so far has not been confirmed.

I know this is somewhat hard for some people to understand, but saying something that is untrue is only a lie if you know it is a lie.

For instance – “I did not have sex with that woman” WAS a lie because Clinton knew that he did have sex with that woman.

But, “Saddam has active weapons programs” is no more a lie when Bush said it
Than when Clinton said it
Or Hillary said it
Or Kerry said it.
Or The UK said it
Or the French said it.
You get my point?

If you have proof that Bush knew that there was no programs, but went to war anyway. I invite you to present it. The media has been dying for proof for the last 3 years.

The intel DID say the WMD’s were still there…and they were. The intel said Saddam had not disarmed after 1991. And guess what? Saddam did not disarm after 1991. That was the justification Clinton used to bomb Iraq in 1998. To destroy stockpiles of weapons we still knew he had. Our intel said that raid was not 100% successful. And guess what? That raid was not 100% successful!

The facts that the intel was not “cherry picked” and the admin “mislead us to war” has been investigated by three different independent panels. ALL came to same conclusion.

Tax cuts for the rich - Read up on the Laffer curve and see how it did the same this time as it has done every time. Cut taxes on the rich = higher tax revenues. Bush should have followed with cuts in spending, a fact which most conservatives are grumpy about.
Also, if you exam the data (IRS.Gov) you will see that even after the tax cut, the rich pay the highest percentage of tax, and their percentage tax burden actually went UP after the cut. So, after the cut, the Rich are still paying more than what I consider to be a fair share, and they are paying a larger percentage overall than they were before the tax cut.
Also, the tax cuts for the rich goes under the theory that larger investments, jobs creation, and stock market investments has greater effect on the overall economy than small one time boosts.

Demo connection to Abramoff – practically ignored by the media…two of Abramoff’s biggest contributors – Hillary and Harry Reid.

Ann’s writing style – is harsher than most, I admit. She is no worse than Ted Rall who writes for the NY Times among other places.
I do find it amusing that you critique an opinion piece for “interspersing opinion with facts”. The entire piece is opinion!

Granada – heh…that was a war? Nice to see that you had to choose a “war” that was little more than a glorified rescue mission to prove your point.
How about the next time you choose a war in which the participants weren’t home by dinnertime?

Oil prices – what would you propose we do? In seem to remember it was the Dems who vetoed drilling in ANWR (both times), and the Dems who oppose building new refineries, and the Dems who force costly environmental regs.

The economy – Home ownership – all time high, “real” wages pretty close to all time high, real Williams and Sowell for your economics from now on.

Approval ratings among GI’s – I have seen several different polls, and I have spoken and worked with many soldiers, sailors, and Marines on a personal basis. Bush’s approval ratings are so-so among the military, but Kerry’s were even lower. Approval for the mission is pretty high.
Do you remember what percentage of the military voted for Bush over Kerry? I don’t remember off the top of my head, but Bush won by a pretty comfortable

Michael Cassidy
I see... so, we're supposed to take you at YOUR word that you were at Fort Bragg, but it's perfectly fine for you to cast aspersions on others, specifically me?

Wow. Typical liberal inconsistency, and I'm being kind in my assessment.

And I notice you STILL haven't bothered to really address the issue I posed in my original post on this thread.

Typical liberal BS, too.

You truly are pathetic, bud.

WWJD translated?
I didn’t expect you to agree with me, anymore than I expected you to give President Bush one iota of positive credit. My first argument was a complete thought, “Since the Bush administration has overthrown fanatical regimes, and since fanatical regimes are fearful of being overthrown, therefore fanatical regimes are fearful of the Bush administration.” I also allowed for radical elements that will never come to the bargaining table, “Mind you, there are varying degrees of fanatical regimes and the most virulent will not be dissuaded by anything less than their own demise.” I did not “imply” anything in the foregoing, as you asserted in your response. Interestingly, you changed the argument and then supported your ruse with a plethora of unsubstantiated liberal talking points, ending in “etc.” Nonetheless, insofar as Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas are concerned I offer the following. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad perchance, sees himself as the deputy of the Twelfth (Hidden) Imam – a purported future messianic world leader. Rational human beings might just wonder if this guy really needs any provocation, that is, given that his goal is world domination. Hezbollah and Hamas, if anything, have been emboldened by Israeli capitulation, forced on them (Israel) in large measure, mind you, by world opinion – something you highly prize. And what is the singular most important stated goal of Hezbollah and Hamas? The eradication of Israel. But then again, those are side issues, aren’t they? Both the Taliban in Afghanistan and Saddam Hussein in Iraq were toppled and have since been replaced. That might logically be assumed to be regime change, albeit however imperfect. Most notably, shortly thereafter, Libya began to comply with nuclear regulatory officials. One might infer that Ghadaffi's motivation was for less than altruistic reasons. One might even postulate he was afraid of his own regime undergoing change. Ann’s point however, that you took exception to was, “The fact that Israel is able to launch an attack on Hezbollah today without instantly inciting a multination conflagration in the Middle East is proof of what Bush has accomplished. He has begun to create a moderate block of Arab leaders who are apparently not interested in becoming the next Saddam Hussein.” I would offer that the moderate block of Arab leaders are fearful of Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah. And although they need the U.S. for their survival they are balancing on a razor’s edge, due to Arab sympathies for Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah.

Your children’s argument is standard issue moral equivalency, which begs the question WWJD. Is the J for Jesus or for Judas? Or is it a Trojan Horse? I would like an answer to your translation of the initials WWJD? Please respond to the inquiry? Consider it, if you will, a defining moment. By the way, the canard in your response effectively was, “Bush lied, kids died.” Others have detailed responses to you on this, at length, but mindless mantras die hard, don’t they? My point had to do with Golda Meir’s words and subsequent realities. She could not have imagined that an Arab mother’s expression of love would be to encourage her children to strap on and detonate an IED in a crowded marketplace. Rather than debate the whole thought you parsed it and responded with a talking point.

Speaking of which (parsing) brings me to my argument concerning terrorism on U.S. soil. I wrote, “Since the Bush administration has stopped terrorism on U.S. soil, and since terrorism on U.S. soil is one of the stated goals of fanatical Islamists, therefore the Bush administration has stopped one of the stated goals of fanatical Islamists. Does that mean they won't ever be successful? Hardly, but Bush knew he had to take the battle to our enemies, in order to frustrate their plans, and so as not to lose tens of thousands at home – at all cost.” Rather than debate the whole thought you parsed it, and responded by suggesting that I, “credit Clinton for an 8- year run without any attacks?” I’m not sure what to make of your request. It implies that I ignore, the ‘93’ WTC bombing, the ‘96’ Khobar Tower Barracks bombing, the ‘98’ U.S. embassies bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, and the October, 2000 attack on the Cole. Additionally, although I allowed for what seems inevitable (barring a miracle of God) a successful act of terrorism on U.S. soil by Islamists’ fanatics, you nonetheless, go on a non sequitur rant. The realities are they have tried and thus far have been unsuccessful. The Bush administration has to bat 1.000 in order to thwart an attack on our homeland; terrorists only have to bat 0.001. Thus far those are the stats. The deductive reasoning stands. You can’t make it not so, by wishing otherwise, or by imagining some future event. You can’t even make it not so by discussing other events in other places.

My stating, “I haven’t seen where polls and approval ratings have mattered much to George and that’s admirable; it implies integrity. Anyone can set their sails to fair weather; it takes courage to know and to stay the course despite the winds of adversity.” Well… how you drew a line from Bush to Nixon, on the basis of this, is incomprehensible. The dots aren’t in the same hemisphere let alone on the same page. It’s my opinion, I like it (regardless of yours) and I’ll stand by it; with or without your consent.

The world; the world is a fickle thing and many of those “abroad” have their own agenda. Refer back to paragraph one, regarding world opinion.

Insofar as polls are concerned, I believe they have become more a tool to influence than to monitor opinion, i.e., push polls. And given the results of some of our recent elections the science seems to be more closely related to “Throwing the Bones.”


WWJD translated? -- _______________________________________. (Fill in the Blank)

Reaganite:
I, not unlike you, have been agonizing over my granddaughter attending a government school next year. And although ultimately it’s my daughter’s decision, I will be talking to my wife this morning to see what we can do to help influence her to continue sending her to private school. Like you, watching WWJD work has convinced me of the need to prevent our children from being brainwashed. This should serve as a clarion call to people that are sending or contemplating sending their children to government schools. Read the posts and ask yourself, “What chance does my little Johnny or Janie have against not being indoctrinated by someone this ideologically driven?”

"I didn’t expect you to agree with me, anymore than I expected you to give President Bush one iota of positive credit."

See "The straw man" - here you exaggerate my position to elicit sympathy. I could credit Bush with a few things, though nothing worth debating.


"My first argument was a complete thought, “Since the Bush administration has overthrown fanatical regimes, and since fanatical regimes are fearful of being overthrown, therefore fanatical regimes are fearful of the Bush administration.”

I'm sorry but your first statement is absolutely in dispute. We can go in a circle, but again, I do not agree Bush has quite "overthrown" a regime. He has sure tried, but if we can agree the 'regime' was the entity that controls Iraq, then I'd say the regime is still operating, under different names perhaps but not only alive and well, continually escalating the violence today to the detriment of our overall efforts in Iraq and the region. The Taliban is also active, capturing two towns last week.

I'll concede that one individual leader may fear being targeted if that's what you meant, but we have not demonstrated that we can nullify a "regime" by our actions in the Mid East, so far, in my opinion.


"And what is the singular most important stated goal of Hezbollah and Hamas? The eradication of Israel."

I can agree with that - they wish that the state that was given to the Jewish people would revert to Arabs, some saying just the disputed territories in particular. But I think it's wrong to characterize them all as "savages" as Coulter calls them. They have some percentage of bloodthirsty killers as any other race or creed, surely every society has some - even ours. But they also have factions of the same political movements who feed the poor, and participate in democratic elections. The question is, how to separate the violent fanatics from the reasonable actors. I agree that anyone that would behead another person is a savage and should be targeted. Now, how far do we extend that, to his wife? Maybe. His brothers? (remember the bin Ladens) His associates? His children? The others in his political group? Ann Coulter seems to think everyone within the borders of his country. Others think anyone of the same religion, or color.

This is what I'm trying to bring out. The illogical extension of guilt made to people who may or may not wish death on the West by pundits like Coulter.

I believe the standards we use to judge whether someone deserves a bomb on their head is where the US goes wrong - we lost the hearts and minds of Afghanis and Iraqis when our actions, intentional or not, killed and maimed too many citizens who were not part of the resistance. We displaced thousands, caused conditions to be too harsh, and ended up with an 80% disapproval in Iraq and much less support on the ground.

What Coulter, you and I, and especially the military needs desperately is information. The ability to tell specifically who are the bad actors. We cannot even argue these issues without such information. The most accurate information we can gather in aggregate is either polls or voting results. In Iraq another method has been counting bodies brought in to the morgue, though dead men tell no tales. The polls have shown we lost the support of the citizens and the votes have gone to Hamas and Hezbollah. Why should I listen to or believe Ann Coulter saying the war is going great without any other empirical evidence? There are alternatives, such as in-country reports and interviews with aid workers, doctors and average citizens, though Ann, Rush, Fox and Sean uniformly ignore these reports because of their "negativity". But try BBC for example and you'll hear in-country reports regularly - they matter to me because I admire the bravery of the writers and reporters.

I'll concede this kind of armed conflict is tough, some say impossible in these countries. I want to take out Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda as much as you, but I would not be willing to invade Iraq to find him, nor bomb targets without highly accurate intel that bad guys are inside.

I understand and appreciate that you guys are willing to live with a much higher tolerance for collateral damage or consider "oops" bombings where innocents die as all a necessary part of hunting down our targets. We all have our own ethical standards and I feel I wouldn't get past St. Peter if I condoned that. I also feel it is appropriate to politely speak out against Ann Coulter's level of invective when she may have a much itchier trigger finger in rounding up, imprisoning, and bombing people.

"...which begs the question WWJD. Is the J for Jesus or for Judas? Or is it a Trojan Horse? I would like an answer to your translation of the initials WWJD? Please respond to the inquiry?"

If you can explain the relevancy I might. I think you're looking to assassinate my character and I'd prefer we stick to the merits of the points in the argument.


"...Golda Meir’s words and subsequent realities. She could not have imagined that an Arab mother’s expression of love would be to encourage her children to strap on and detonate an IED in a crowded marketplace."

This is a fair point, but only in as far as persecuting the mothers who encourage suicide bombings. The rest of the mothers represent the overwhelmingly vast majority in every Arab country - they do not encourage their children to hurt people - and I fear you may be lumping those moms in just because they may be nearby, related or not like to live under occupation. There are many complex degrees involved, but the US has always historically held to high standards of intel in military engagement before we kicked in doors - till now.

Again, the delicate question we are posed with is whether unarmed citizens on the ground are guilty until proven innocent, or innocent until proven guilty. I subscribe to treating them as we'd like to be treated ourselves. Some GIs prefer to shoot first and ask questions later, while others might get attacked themselves giving the benefit of the doubt. Personally, I think the best remedy available now is to remove ground forces from these precarious situations and preserve our personnel and resources for battles that have more direct consequence to our safety.

“Since the Bush administration has stopped terrorism on U.S. soil,..."

Stop right there! I cannot agree Bush's acts have stopped this - there is no way to show this anyway. I'll even give you that he might have foiled some plots, but looking at his disapproval rating worldwide, one could also theorize that he has increased the likelihood thaat something might happen here. You just can't form 'deductive reasoning' arguments based on in-dispute premises.

“credit Clinton for an 8- year run without any attacks?” I’m not sure what to make of your request. It implies that I ignore, the ‘93’ WTC bombing, the ‘96’ Khobar Tower Barracks bombing, the ‘98’ U.S. embassies bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, and the October, 2000 attack on the Cole."

You misread me, I suggest you reread your own words and then my reply. You said attacks on US soil, so I pointed out that there were none between 1993 and 2001. Before you credit Bush with this 5-year run, you'd have to credit Slick Willie for an 8-year run. It's your chosen metric, not mine, thought I brought up it was not a good way to measure anything because neither you or I know what al Qaeda could have planned and when. And since you brought up foreign attacks, please look at the numbers under Bush, the highest frequency in 30+ years.


"...it takes courage to know and to stay the course despite the winds of adversity.” Well… how you drew a line from Bush to Nixon, on the basis of this, is incomprehensible."

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I brought up Nixon to demonstrate that it's possible a President can have such low ratings not because of "the integrity to make tough choices" as he spins it, but it's also very possible to have low approval ratings because of poor leadership, corruption, and being accused of crimes. I do not begrudge you your chosen reasons why the country and world disapproves of him in such numbers, please allow me mine.

"Insofar as polls are concerned, I believe they have become more a tool to influence than to monitor opinion, i.e., push polls. And given the results of some of our recent elections the science seems to be more closely related to “Throwing the Bones.”

I'd ask you what better tools there are for measuring public opinion? Pew, Zogby, Straw, Gallup, Harris have operated through decades of American politics and have the utmost level of credibility with all their clients who include governments, industry, networks, lobbies and newspapers the world over. They document quite transparently their methods, as any mistrust of their accuracy threatens their very existence. If you think they all suddenly banded together to conspire against Bush, I'd suggest that it was more likely that one or two privately owned voting machine makers could be more easily corrupted. If your opinion alone is supposed to sway me, there is much more compelling evidence in the other direction, including the federal government's own reports stating EVMs were vulnerable to tampering - after the election. I'm not convinced either way however, so feel free to support YOUR conspiracy theory with facts.

Do teachers brainwash- or radio pundits?
"Like you, watching WWJD work has convinced me of the need to prevent our children from being brainwashed. This should serve as a clarion call to people that are sending or contemplating sending their children to government schools. Read the posts and ask yourself, “What chance does my little Johnny or Janie have against not being indoctrinated by someone this ideologically driven?”

With all respect, this is a political blog, not a classroom. Show me where the leap is made that implies I wouldn't be objective and tolerant in the classroom. My entire point was the degradation of communication, left and right, in which pundits, bloggers and office-cooler discusssions today ignore the most basic rules of forming a reasonable argument, as defined by academia.

Many of the responses have been hate-filled diatribes, without any attempt to discuss or disprove a single kernel of what I've said. Other posts have been thoughtfully directed to the issues on their merits, and cordial as well, which is appreciated and encouraged. We need to teach our children how to dissect media manipulation - I can just as ably deconstruct Rhandi Rhodes or Mike Malloy's communication methods as Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity's.

I encourage students and adults alike to replace derision, character assassination and all of the other debating pitfalls I originally listed with as much independent thought and research as possible. A good way to win an argument is by arming yourself with knowledge and transferring it to your opponent by dissecting and refuting their points. If we can all more easily spot and call out the common deflection tactics, we can all enjoy more substansive debates.

And since this is a political blog: the current administration has had ample opportunity and time to improve our schools and has instead cut funding at all levels. If you bemoan "government schools" I hope you were demanding better from the government all along, or else you are more a part of the problem then it's cure.

I'd suggest you are more likely to get an unobjective instructor when you slash budgets and impose unfunded mandates. While we teachers bring in materials bought out of pocket, the Bush administration pays for extensive PR campaigns for NCLB, breaking domestic "propaganda" laws in the process with impunity. We should all have contempt for such media manipulation - expressly because we paid for it with our taxes. But all you care about is whether your political views (biases?) are represented in our schools.

I say up with substance, down with invective and BOO to Bush on education!

WWJD??? Good night and good luck.
WWJD???(?):

• No explanation for your use and meaning of WWJD?
• You parse, obfuscate, equivocate, make unsubstantiated claims, imagine opinions I haven’t made; then respond to them, are an ideologue (a true believer) and you’re giving me a headache. No! Really… You’re giving me a headache.
• If you decide to offer an explanation for your use and the meaning of WWJD? Along with your new handle, WWJD??? I might decide to renew dialogue with you. Otherwise, Good night and good luck.

PS Thanks for taking the time to write.

Who cares about a nickname?
Gee, who cares? Such a sore point? What does Cutter Bench mean? Are you waiting to hear that "J" is Jesus to jump all over me with your religious dos and don'ts? It reminds me of Sean Hannity mining for a caller's personal information so he can assail their character instead of dissect and disprove their points using civil, informed discussion and ideally, superior research. Ratings show audiences eat it up while McNeil/Lehrer goes virtually unwatched. God bless the USA! Hot dawg!

This is supposed to be a political discussion on the merits. Choose it to stand for anything you want.

See Liarsandcrooks.com
"American GI's have a much better chance of surviving a tour in Iraq (over 99%). So, a mother who lies to a child and sends them to almost certain death is not the same as a political leader who influences a soldier to go fight."

No it's different. They tell their kids they will die for whatever their cause is and we tell kids they are going to find WMD, will be welcomed as heroes and will get valuable skills, travel and will be all they can be. And 99% does not include the maimed, mentally unwell or those who lose touch with their careers and families.


"Also, as we have discussed, Bush and Cheney did not lie. This has been investigated and re-investigated, always with the same conclusion. If you are so convinced they did lie, perhaps you would care to enlighten us. Or are you willing to admit you have no proof, just a hunch?"

Cheney said "we know where [WMD] are, they're in the area to the north, south and around Tikrit" on camera. Please explain. Bush said similar things on Polish TV including "We found them". Rumsfeld was caught by Thomas friedman contradicting himself on camera "Show me where I said that" which is still online to see. It's not like this is an insignificant issue, this is the reason given as to why we invaded a country!

"Clinton's America got hit about once every 2 years (by Al Qaeda) and Bush's America has not been hit since 9-11 (almost 5 years) you can draw a possible correlation between the two events."

In Bush's America, we've been attacked over seven times a day for years, and terrorism has risen by every measure. You brought up the argument about "US soil", not me. If it's Bush's intention to initiate ground action in the Mid East to make sure Muslim fanatics attack us there instead of here, it's pure genius, but at a billion dollars a day, how do we get out of it?


"The most conservative estimates put the infrastructure at least at pre-war levels with most estimates stating increases in children’s immunizations, electrical power, and other essential services."

Please share sources for this, I'm listening.


"Recruitment and re-enlistment is down, but that is not always indicative to dissatisfaction in the troops. Recruitment levels were at extremely low levels under Clinton because the job market was good..."

Agreed. The job market was strong then, as was the peace dividend and base closures greatly reduced our deficit. This is what is possible when we choose targeted airstrikes over ground invasions.

"Couple low pay, cut benefits, and several deployments and re-upping for another round doesn’t always look as appealing."

Agreed. Why cut benefits for the military now that they need them?

Craig...
"I have an MP3 of Clinton saying what a danger Hussein was, talking about his pursuing WMDS! It was tit for tat the SAME reasons Bush gave, yet no outcry from the Dems then!"

Because his solution was UN inspections and airstrikes, not ground troops. There is no doubt Saddam had chemicals weapons at one time - we sold them to him.


"...the Left's "rush to Iraq" theories that he KNEW his intel was faulty."

Not the left, my source for this is Col. Wilkerson.

"The persons MOST responsible for the debacle of the Katrina lack-of-response, are the LA governor, and Mayor Ray Nagin."

There is plenty of blame to go around but Bush's gaffs were from the top, dismantling FEMA and not doing anything as Rome burned, appointing unqualified people to important positions, a pattern I could expand on if you like.

"Bush LEGALLY could not do anything, because LA's governor had not asked."

Wow. You imply he was completely prepared, waiting to act as soon as the piece of paper was pushed over his desk. I saw the video of him in his Crawford mini-office, (which many feel was leaked by "Brownie") and I saw an uninterested guy being told levees were going to be topped and that the storm was going to be "very, very grave". I feel that Bush again showed himself to do the bare minimum, and that his schedule in the days after showed he just simply doesn't keep on top of the news. What was your analysis of his response, apart from the other players?


"...can you do what you say Ann should, and provide me examples of HER "killing the messenger" WITHOUT also tearing their arguments to shreds?"

Sure, I'll give you a great example. One day on her show a clip presented a left-wing perspective in a study and she spent several minutes commenting on how "all" liberals had an annoying, whiny voice. For as long as I continued to listen that day, which included through the break, she did not rebuke the content of his argument. I couldn't listen to her whole show that day in fairness, but even if she did, it shows how daily call-in shows ofte