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Wednesday, July 05, 2006
Ann Coulter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Top secret interview exposed!
by Ann Coulter
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Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


It was nice to see The New York Times commemorating Independence Day this week with a tribute to its favorite Revolutionary War hero, Benedict Arnold. Times editor Bill Keller spent the day attending Revolutionary War battle re-enactments, where he passed the Continental Army's secret battle plans to the British.

This week I plan to reveal my own top secret information: an interview I did with the New York Post the week my current No. 1 best seller, "Godless," was released. On account of an important breaking story on Angelina Jolie's new tattoo, the Post never found room to run the long interview I wasted my time answering for the Post's Larry Getlen.

Once considered a legitimate daily, the Post has been reduced to tabloid status best known for Page Six's breathless accounts of Paris Hilton's latest ruttings, and headlines like "Vampire Teen -- H.S. Girl Is Out for Blood." How crappy a newspaper is the Post? Let me put it this way: It's New York's second-crappiest paper.

Maybe the Post's constant harassment of me is an attempt to shake me down for protection money like they did with billionaire businessman Ron Burkle. I have sold a LOT of books -- more books, come to think of it, than any writers at the New York Post.

Here's Part 1:

NY POST: Vitriol aside for a moment, how would you define a liberal, politically speaking?

A: Naive, misinformed fanatical Mother Earth-worshipers and fervent America-haters -- and those are their good traits.

NY POST: In "Godless," you lump many views you disagree with under the banner of a liberal religion. But many Democrats (as with Republicans) disagree amongst themselves on many of these issues. Do you consider all Americans who vote Democrat to be liberals?

A: Or fools.

NY POST: How many liberals do you think there actually are in this country?

A: Way too many, but that's just a rough estimate. You know, somewhere in the ballpark of "way too many."

NY POST: Your books, like Bill O'Reilly's, generally go to No. 1. But so do Michael Moore's and Al Franken's. What do you think this says about the real nature of what Americans believe, politically and ideologically?

A: Judging by your list, that half of them are patriotic.

NY POST: In the last two presidential elections combined, the number of people who voted for the Democrat and the number who voted for the Republican were pretty close to even. Isn't it safe to say that the country rests somewhere in the middle of conservatism and liberalism?

A: Yes, I think the results of the last "American Idol" vote pretty much proved that.

NY POST: Your characterization of liberals paints them as extremists. But with people like Pat Robertson telling us how God keeps telling him who He's angry at, isn't it fair to say that there are extremists on both sides?

A: Pat Robertson opposes capital punishment, opposed the impeachment of Bill Clinton and supports trade with China, just for starters. Seems like a pretty mixed bag to me. So what makes you call him extreme? That he believes he has dialogue with the Lord? Do liberals now call anyone who thinks this an "extremist"?

NY POST: Do you believe there is a political middle? If so, how would you define it?

A: There is no more a "political middle" than there is a family in America with 2.3 children. People with opinions take sides. Contrary to what you've heard, it's actually more important to stand for something than it is for everybody to "just get along."

NY POST: You speak in the book of "Muslims' predilection for violence," accepting it as a given. But many would argue that many Muslims, in this country and others, lead average, everyday lives, and denounce violence. How is painting all Muslims as violent any different than looking at the Crusades, or at any of the Christian extremist groups around today, and saying, "All Christians are murderers?"

A: Quite obviously, referring to "Muslims' predilection for violence" is not the same as saying, "All Christians are murderers." It would be the same if I had said, "All Muslims are murderers." You didn't do too well on the analogies section of the SATs, did you?

NY POST: You say that "without a fundamental understanding of man's place in the world" (by which you mean God), we risk being lured into, among other things, slavery. But weren't the American slaveholders devout Christians?

A: They may have been devout Christians, but they weren't being good Christians by holding slaves. That's the point: Any Christian slaveholder had to violate Christianity to own slaves.

Thus -- and obviously -- the abolitionist movement was fueled by Christians, much as the anti-abortion movement is today.

I'm sure in the year 2106 some future Ann Coulter will be asked to explain why some Christians had abortions 100 years earlier. Christians sometimes lapse into the church of liberalism by doing bad things, just as liberals sometimes lapse into our church by doing good things.

(To be continued later this summer ...)

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About The Author
Ann Coulter is a columnist and author of Guilty: Liberal Victims and Their Assault On America.
 
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Can't wait for Part 2: Ann!
I love to watch Ann on TV interviews. She always cut right through the smoke of the Liberals stupid questions as she's done here. They invariably ask questions designed to trick her into a "Gotcha" game. But she's so quick to see the real reasons behind the questions. The interviewer ends up looking like a fool grasping for straws.

Great column Ann!

Wow...
...is she TOUGH! These dumb reporters are always going into combat unarmed when they interview 'OL Annie.No wonder the Post didn't print the interview.They didn't have the gonads.

Heh
"You didn't do too well on the analogies section of the SATs, did you?"

Man, that was harsh... ;)

Ann
I have a non-sexuel crush on this girl.

Has anyone else gotten messages from Townhall stating their language is "inappropriate"? I have, twice. Without using any profanity or obscenity. Has the Orwellian nightmare penetrated here, too? Are our thoughts and feelings to be sacrificed for the sake of political correctness? Should this continue, Townhall will lose me as a reader and participant FOREVER!!!!!

standtall comment

Can you be more explicit about what comments were " inappropriate?"

In commenting on Ann's piece on the demise of the New York Post, I also mentioned the New York Daily News. Upon the publication of "Godless," Daily News writer Michael Daly called for nothing short of Biblical retribution on Ms. Coutler including plagues, pestilence and the turning of the Hudson river to blood. He concluded his piece by saying she should be "shunned." I also commented on another of the Daily News' purveyors of "moral authority," Michael Goodwin. He once laughably compared the likes of Cindy Sheehan to the power and quiet dignity of Harriet Beecher Stowe and Rosa Parks. Anyway, he was also of the opinion Ms. Coulter be pilloried. The real focus of my remarks were basically that The Daily News has adopted a format more in keeping with "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" wherein this same daily focuses almost exclusively on the comings and goings of such giants on the world stage as Lil' Kim, Busta Rhymes, Fat Joe and everyones favorite, Jennifer Lopez. Also, I can't resist, in mentioning liberal cheerleader Olbermann, he recently threw a world class hissy fit wherein he consigned fellow MSNBC colleague and resident-helium gasper Rita Cosby to the 10 o'clock segement saying he would not introduce her and citing her for being a lightweight. Sure. He should stick to the journalism he knows best,like "Countdown Puppet Theatre" and his sniggling schoolgirl gigglefest's with his "good friend" Michael Musto on such timely matters such as the placing of a video camera in Britney Spears' vagina in anticipation of the birth of her next child. Sorry, I forgot. His producer makes him do those stories, right Keith? I don't know. Maybe it was for using some of the adjectives I used when first trying to post my remarks. AGAIN, nothing PROFANE or OBSCENE.I will not do so this time around because I want to be heard on this subject.When "Godless" hit the stores all of the Daily News' "entertainment writers" were all over it and touting it as the work of the devil. Townhall's refusal to post my first set of remarks made me very upset due to my "inappropriate language." Their second refusal to post my comments to their refusal to post my ORIGINAL comments just drove me up the wall. What you see previously is my third attempt. Besides, I like this posting better than my first.

I guess it's not plagiarism...
...if you quote from an interview that you gave.

Small fonts
Does anyone else have trouble reading the columns and comments? The column text is too small for me to read comfortably and the comments are impossible. I've complained about this to the editors but I suppose they are either too busy or just don't want to fix it.

small fonts
Wisolman writes: Thursday, July, 06, 2006 9:36 AM
Small fonts

"Does anyone else have trouble reading the columns and comments? The column text is too small for me to read comfortably and the comments are impossible. I've complained about this to the editors but I suppose they are either too busy or just don't want to fix it."

Wisolman try holding control on the keyboard and scrolling with your mouse that should change you font size to the way you want it.

Alan Colmes
He especially looks overmatched when she is on his and Sean's show. But then most days, he looks foolish trying to justify most liberal points. He must be the highest paid guy on TV since he humiliates himself everyday. You need extra pay to volunteer for that.

MY blog wouldn't post for innaprpriate language and the closest I came to a curse word was liberal.

Small fonts
Paul writes: Wisolman try holding control on the keyboard and scrolling with your mouse that should change you font size to the way you want it.

I knew about that option, but it only works if you tell your browser to "ignore font sizes specified on web pages", and that messes up the format of other elements of the page. Holding down the control and scrolling the mouse wheel has the same effect as changing the text size in the view menu. Thanks for the response though.

Small fonts
Paul writes: Wisolman try holding control on the keyboard and scrolling with your mouse that should change you font size to the way you want it.

I knew about that option, but it only works if you tell your browser to "ignore font sizes specified on web pages", and that messes up the format of other elements of the page. Holding down the control and scrolling the mouse wheel has the same effect as changing the text size in the view menu. Thanks for the response though.

Ann
Ann is the gift that keeps on giving. She is one of the (very) few conservatives willing to risk saying what must be said.She has liberals pegged and does not see fit to serve them with sugar coating.

Ann
Ann is the gift that keeps giving. She is one of the (very) few conservatives to stand strong against the PC media.I love her ability to make the libs show who they are by their looney response to her commentary and books.

Ann has some hypocrisy, too
I like a lot of the things that Ann Coulter says and writes, but she also has her shades of hypocrisy, just like the "devout" Christian slaveholders of the South. (Although there were many strong Christians in the South who opposed chattel slavery, but that is another issue for another time.)

As for Ann, I would tend to think the Puritans, who once governed the state she is from, would have called her "Godless" for wearing the low cut top she is in on the cover of her book, as well of her favoring the music of the "Grateful Dead." And sadly, I am sure her pastor, Tim Keller at Redeemer Presbyterian, has not rebuked her for these things. Such is the low state of Christianity in the U.S.

Amazing!
Amazing, nine questions and no mention of the 911 widows. Too bad this interview wasn't deemed worthy of ink by the NYP editorial staff. I happened to catch Joe Scarborough's interview of Ann. His angle was to use the question his wife ("Who happens to like you, Ann.") asked him, "Why does she have to be so mean?" in order to monopolize her (Ann's) time with her alleged mistreatment of the Jersey Girls. That is, instead of discussing the other 280 pages in Ann’s latest bestseller, Godless. It dawned on me, given the opportunity and armed with left-wing talking points, the MSM would want to question Jesus about his mean-spirited, vicious attack on the dudes that were attempting to turn his Father's house into a one stop Temple-Mart. That is, instead of discussing the lame walking, blind seeing, dead rising and souls being set free. Not, mind you, that Ann rises to the level of Christ. She does however, seem to know who she is, and makes no apologies for her opinions. Trouble is, as I see it, too many conservatives don't know who they are and allow the liberals to lay the ground rules. Ann knows this is a battle, and neither gives nor expects quarter. In this all too "civilized" world we live in, we couch our words in public and leave our more visceral comments about adversaries for private conversations between confidants, congratulating ourselves for maintaining civility and castigating others (like Ann) who lack our “graciousness.” Ann seems to have risen above this charade and rather than mince words, she honestly speaks her mind. One word comes to mind, refreshing. Thank you Ann Coulter for a breath of fresh air in the midst of all the stinking civility.

Ann's forgetfulness
As a registered Independent, I resent Ann's forgetfulness or perhaps exclusion of the fact that our founders had to often compromise in putting together the documents of our wonderful nation. Compromise is not always bad, as evidenced by the shared wisdom of the Constitution and other works. As a Presbyterian pastor, I am disappointed that Ann does not pay closer attention to our Presbyterian beliefs. Just because she can turn a fancy phrase and wield sarcasm as a weapon does not mean that she should be "revered" for her mean-spirited works which appeal to the worst in people. There are many passages from the Bible which condemn the kind of vitriol that she spews forth -- and which she defends by calling it "truth." As the Christian she claims to be, she should emulate the One who is the Truth. When Jesus lashed out at people, it was almost always the Scribes and Pharisees -- the "conservatives" of their day.
By the way, any of the comments made above also apply to caustic liberals. The extremes in both parties are ruining our beloved country!

Reply: To revmarOK
"I resent Ann's forgetfulness" Seems you suffer from forgetfulness too. "When Jesus lashed out at people, it was almost always the Scribes and Pharisees -- the "conservatives" of their day."" A very bad comparison. They were the religious leaders at that time. They were not political. The Romans had a bad habit of killing anybody who opposed them. Jesus was continually running into religious people, who kept trying to kill him. I wonder why?

Reply: To CovieNRA
Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.

I do believe that those who live by the sword should be prepared to die by the sword. Ann Coulter and her bretheran complained long, loud and clear about every perceived slight, distortion and inaccuracy they find in the so-called liberal media. There was no end to the blather coming out of her when Jason Blair was found to be fabricating stories at the New York Times and was subsequently and quite rightly fired for doing so. She used that occasion to attack and denigrate the NYT no end. She must now be held accountable for her own lack of integrity. The nation's newspapers and internet sites will rest easier without her hate and plagerized stories out there contaminating American discourse.

For remarOK - you're no Pastor
I'll call your bluff - you're not a Presbyterian Minister. And to be a self-proclaimed Independent you sure do engage in "group" think. You're nothing but a hack who is afraid to admit what you are - a secular, humanist liberal. May I remind you that slavery was allowed as a compromise to the colonies of Ga and S. Carolina in order to get the US Constitution enacted - read your US History. If you are a Christian then how is it beneficial to the Kingdom of God to compromise on issues of homosexuality, abortion and other sins. Jesus was not a compromiser. Site one Biblical example of where Jesus comprised his principles and law? Did he compromise with Satan during his 40 days of temptation? Did Jesus ever compromise with the Romans or Pharisees? Did God (aka Jesus) compromise with the Sodomites, the Egyptians, Adam and Eve etc? Why do over 80% of self professed Christians identify themselves as conservatives? To say that the Pharisees of Jesus’ time are the conservatives of today reveals you for what you are - a liar trying to hide behind false credentials in hopes that you can win an argument or persuade somebody. Why are conservatives 5 times more likely to be active Church goers and identify themselves as Christian than will liberals? Go try your "I'm a minister" routine on a liberal blog and try to get at least some basic Bible knowledge before doing so.

reagonite
I knew this guy (Presbyterian Minister) was going to get slammed but haven't had opportunity to get back on until now, and at that, have to get to the Men's Prayer Meeting. I thought, like you, he was trying to bolster his argument with false credentials as well. I couldn't help but think it was apporpriate to name himself, a Presbyterian, given the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) "called for the economic strangulation of Israel" (Dennis Prager) back in July of 2004.

Jesus did NOT compromise. And think about the name John the Baptist used to describe the religious hypocrites of their day, "vipers." We've let the left tell us for far too long what we can and cannot say. It's high time for all "Good men (and women) of faith" to enjoin them in the battle.

Re: dmvmscl
Plagerized stories? I beg to differ. Yesterday Bruce Bartlett wrote a timely piece about the godfather of plagerism, Walter Duranty. This NYT reporter won a Pulitzer Prize in the 1930's for obvescating and concealing Stalin's wholesale slaughter of anywhere between 5-10 million Ukranians in his effort to raise hard cash for the fledgling Communist State.He did all he could to conceal this fact even though he confided to the British diplomatic corp that this was taking place. The Times still lists Duranty as a Pulitzer winner but with a small footnote saying his work is "disputed."
Let's add a few more:
Janet Cook of the Washington Post who in the early 80's wrote a heart rendering expose about an 8 year old heroin addict. She also won a Pulitzer Prize. Trouble is though, she made it up.She resigned the Post and gave back the award.
Bob Weisbart: Sacramento Bee-Plagerism.Fired.
Stephen Glass: The New Republic a running series about a 15 year old hacker who breaks into a company's computer system and is later awarded a job for his efforts. Complete fabrication.Fired.
Patricia Smith and Mike Barnicle: Both of the Boston Globe.Fabrication of quotes.Fired.
Brian Walski: Photographer for the LA Times accused of fabricating photos to make a more compelling photograph. Fired.
Jack Dunphy: USA Today asking personal friends to pose as sources to verify his fabrications.He survived. Two of USA's editors were fired.
Stephen Dunphy: Seattle Post- plagerism.Fired.
Dan Rather & Mary Mapes. Memogate. Mapes fired.
Rather allowed to take "early retirement."
I could name maybe a half dozen others that come to mind but I think you get my drift.
What do they have in common? All liberal writers for liberal publications/news sources. Liberal work ethic:Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
As far as Ms. Coulter's "plagerisms"? Prove it.

The NY Post
Anne's opinion of the Post notwithstanding, the Post is the only New York daily with editorials and columns that do not fit the Pravda solialist model. If not for the Post, many northeastern conservatives might have lost hope long ago.

Reply to Gadfly
"The man looks at the outward appearance. The Lord looks at the heart."

OK - and your point is? My original comment gets at that very thing. It is ok for Ann to blast the liberal things, but her low cut top and her admiration of Grateful Dead music ( a band who would not exactly be friends of conservatism) is ok from a Christian perspective? I don't think so.

Jesus also said that what is within a person eventually will makes its way out into "outward appearances." By their fruit you shall KNOW them. I just see a lot of hypocrisy on both sides - and Christian commentators have their fair share of it. For another example, see REED, RALPH.

To STANDTALL

Interesting that Coulter publishes an attack against the NY Post four days after the Post reports (http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/copycatty_coulter_pilfers_prose__pro_nationalnews_philip_recchia.htm):

-----

Conservative scribe Ann Coulter cribbed liberally in her latest book, "Godless," according to a plagiarism expert.

John Barrie, the creator of a leading plagiarism-recognition system, claimed he found at least three instances of what he calls "textbook plagiarism" in the leggy blond pundit's "Godless: the Church of Liberalism" after he ran the book's text through the company's digital iThenticate program.

He also says he discovered verbatim lifts in Coulter's weekly column, which is syndicated to more than 100 newspapers...

Barrie, CEO of iParadigms, told The Post that one 25-word passage from the "Godless" chapter titled "The Holiest Sacrament: Abortion" appears to have been lifted nearly word for word from Planned Parenthood literature published at least 18 months before Coulter's 281-page book was released.

A separate, 24-word string from the chapter "The Creation Myth" appeared about a year earlier in the San Francisco Chronicle with just one word change - "stacked" was changed to "piled."

Another 33-word passage that appears five pages into "Godless" allegedly comes from a 1999 article in the Portland (Maine) Press Herald.

Meanwhile, many of the 344 citations Coulter includes in "Godless" "are very misleading," said Barrie, who holds a Ph.D. from the University of California at Berkeley, where he specialized in pattern recognition.

"They're used purely to try and give the book a higher level of credibility - as if it's an academic work. But her sloppiness in failing to properly attribute many other passages strips it of nearly all its academic merits," he told The Post.

Barrie says he also ran Coulter's Universal Press columns from the past 12 months through iThenticate and found similar patterns of cribbing.

Her Aug. 3, 2005, column, "Read My Lips: No New Liberals," about U.S. Supreme Court Justice David Souter, includes six passages, ranging from 10 to 48 words each, that appeared 15 years earlier in the same order in an L.A. Times article, headlined "Liberals Leery as New Clues Surface on Souter's Views."

But nowhere in that column does she mention the L.A. Times or the story's writer, David G. Savage.

Her June 29, 2005, column, "Thou Shalt Not Commit Religion," incorporates 10 facts on National Endowment for the Arts-funded work that originally appeared in the same order in a 1991 Heritage Foundation report, "The National Endowment for the Arts: Misusing Taxpayers' Money." But again, the Heritage Foundation isn't credited.

-----

Now certainly you think that Coulter should be strung up if these allegations turn out to be true, right?

By the way, how do you like your crow prepared?

Top Secret Interview Exposed
Ann is entirely witty and can cut to the quick. The demise of the liberal opinion is lockstep with secularization. Democrats used to be considered liberals until the party was hijacked by the Pro-choice coalition. There are a few Democrats that I know that have changed party afiliation due to the parties' separation from God. The disintegration of political systems in history occurs when their leaders make themselves God. Liberals will fracture and metastesize as more and more complex issues confront us. The watered down versions of their spawn will continue to percolate towards notoriety. My fear is that a really clever and Godless politician might patch together some kind of united front and they could regain political power and prestige.


ann
Standtall.."obvescate"..?...its mispelling..not inappropriate their warning you about..?

ann
caught myself..sorry..they're warning you about

to BS Detector
Seems to me John Barrie has much to gain by attacking a bestselling author. After all, he is marketing plagiarism software. Vague references to strings that are, for the most part, little more than phrase or sentence length doesn't sound like much of a case. I want to read the actual examples of the alleged plagiarisms. In other words, are they piracies of various individuals' unique ideas, or common knowledge?

One also has to marvel at the characterization of Ann's 344 citations as "very misleading," by arguing that, "her sloppiness in failing to properly attribute many other passages strips it of nearly all its academic merits," as Barrie alleges. That's logic only a true blue leftist can truly appreciate. Either her citations are properly documented or they're not. And if she did, in fact, miss documenting three sentences in 281 pages, that's hardly the equivalent of fabricating "facts" out of whole cloth. My given name is Thomas. Show me the evidence.

BS:
The Planned Parenthood passage IS acknowledged in her notes at the end of "Godless." With respect to the "alleged" cribbing of the article about the Furbish lousewort that appears on page five in "Godless," I suggest you read it for yourself and draw your own conclusions.
Dr.John Barrie, who holds a Ph.D from Berkeley ,an expert in "pattern recognition"? His credentials in and of themselves speak volumes. If there is one thing I've learned in this life is that alphabet letters at the end of one's name along with $2.00 will get you on the bus.
Should these allegations proved true should she be "strung up"? No. But she should certainly be discredited. But I won't hold my breath.
By the way, I don't eat crow. I'm not going to start now.
old leftist: Thanks for the tip. Who says you can't learn something new everyday.

Doubting Thomas and

Why do you and STANNNND attack Barrie? I've read enough of his quotes to know that he's no Coulter fan. But if there is actually plagiarism, does it matter whether it was unearthed by a PhD, or by a garbageman, or by a Democrat campaign worker, or by Deep Blue? Was there less truth to the debunking of Dan Rather's Bush memo because it was done by folks like us instead of forensics experts? Let's stick to the question: is Ann Coulter a habitual plagiarizer?

If she did it, she did it, and we'll find out about it soon enough. What I found interesting was that in her first column after the Post ran its story, she trashed the paper, saying it has been "reduced to tabloid status" (um, hasn't it been a tabloid for a while?).

Seriously, it looks like she felt she had to respond and threw together this piece on deadline, slapping four spiteful paragraphs in front of an unpublished interview.

Stay tuned, and look for the analysis rather than the conclusions. While her syndicate is looking into this, they won't do anything unless the evidence is quite damning - they make a lot of money because lots of folks have such an appetite for Coulter's scorched-earth brand of punditry.

BS: "Pattern expert"? In what? Crop circles? Bald patches on lab rats? Pseudo science. Just like the mechanical engineers, quantum theorists and physicists can make an elephant hang over a cliff on a blade of grass. I'm quite sure with today's technology a person can manipulate a softwear program to suit their own ends.You even say in your own statement that Barrie is no fan of Coulter.
I gave two examples in "Godless." One regarding the Portland Maine Press Herald and the Planned Parenthood passage. If you can't be bothered, so be it.
But you're right. Let's let Universal Syndicate take a look at this and see what they say. But having authored five books in the take-no-prisoners style of her's I'm quite sure they have had an army of fact checkers verify her work.
As far as "looking at the analysis and not the conclusions," that statement says it all and I'm not even going to respond to that.

Found a couple

"With respect to the "alleged" cribbing of the article about the Furbish lousewort that appears on page five in "Godless," I suggest you read it for yourself and draw your own conclusions."

Okay, I found it. Looks like the furbish lousewort is a direct lift. You have the book, I don't - is it attributed?

Example 1, Page 5: “The massive Dickey-Lincoln Dam, a $227 million hydroelectric project proposed on upper St. John River in Maine, was halted by the discovery of the Furbish lousewort, a plant previously believed to be extinct.”

Alleged Source: “The massive Dickey-Lincoln Dam, a $ 227 million hydroelectric project proposed on upper St. John River, is halted by the discovery of the Furbish lousewort, a plant believed to be extinct.” (“People and events that made Maine's century,” Portland Press-Herald, Dec. 12, 1999 (Not available online))
(Identified by Rude Pundit, John Barrie/New York Post)

This is from http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001070.php, where there are more. There are a couple of columns where it looks like Coulter had one source for much of the substance of the column, but didn't mention the source material. Check for yourself. This is not "cut-and-paste" plagiarism, but it sure looks like Coulter took the research done by others and passed it on without attribution.

BS: No, it's not a "direct lift." It is written in the past tense and the passage you quote was written in the present tense. If that's how her work is going to be nit-picked,Good Luck.

reply to Cutter Bench,Reaganite, Gadfly
I was amused by the replies to my statement, "Ann's Forgetfulness." I was also amused by Cutter Bench's assumption that I was a "guy." I am a female Presbyterian minister ordained by the PC(USA) in 1992 -- and also a registered Independent in the state of Oklahoma. By the way, the current G.A. corrected the Israel policy this year, so I hope Dennis Prager will note the change. I truly feel very sorry for Reaganite, who freely calls people who disagree with his (her?) narrow views a "hack," secular humanist, liberal. For Gadfly -- the Scribes and Pharisees were, indeed, very political within their own community. Of course they cowtowed to the Romans -- they had no other choice. But within their community they could even wield death to people who transgressed the Law (or their version of it) much as the Taliban did in Afghanistan. I know I am an Independent because there are certain conservative principles I favor such as small government, personal responsibility, deficit and immigration control, and various liberal social issues (and I don't necessarily mean abortion or homosexuality.) I can discuss these matters without needless name-calling and incendiary rhetoric.
Reaganite, if you're truly a Christian, and want to reflect Christ's love in all you do, you can discuss politics without meanness-- as I hope Ann Coulter will learn to do. And I will repeat
the closing in my initial comment -- the extremes on both the liberal and conservative sides are ruining our beloved country.

Reply: To revmarOK
"the Scribes and Pharisees were, indeed, very political within their own community. Of course they cowtowed to the Romans -- they had no other choice." I haven't a clue what you mean here. Any way your comparison is still very bad. "But within their community they could even wield death to people who transgressed the Law (or their version of it) much as the Taliban did in" Afghanistan." I see you don't read your bible much. John 18:31 Pilate said, "Take him yourselfs and judge him by your own law." "But we have NO RIGHT TO EXECUTE ANYONE," the jews objected. Seems the Romans stripped them of rights that you give them in your head.

Reply: To CovieNRA
As any good legalist, you will swallow camels and gag at gnats. So your perfect right? You know all about what Christians should do and say, what they should wear, what they should listen to. If we don't live up to your narrow standards we are all wrong, and by God you will straiten us out. There are two foundation facts of human enlightenment: 1. There is a God. 2. Your not Him. You need to work on 2.

To Gadfly
I would enjoy my discussion with you much more if you wouldn't make remarks such as "I see you don't read your Bible much." As a Christian for most of my life, and after four years in seminary, I can say I spend a lot of time in Scripture. I also like to read ancient history.

Josephus, the Jewish historian, in parts of his writing claims that the Pharisees wielded considerable political power. The Apostle Paul,(a Pharisee) before his conversion approved the stoning of Stephen, the first Christian martyr. The death sentence, for whatever reason, was pretty political (not to mention painful)--(also the woman caught in adultery -- interrupted by Jesus' gracious mercy). But in addition to death sentences, dictating community behavior with their rigorous "oral Torah" was also political power.

I guess this has been an interesting digression which I didn't mean to get into. Nevertheless, most scholars maintain that the Pharisees (good law 'biding citizens that they were) -- were against Jesus because they felt he did not keep the "tradition of the elders," their specialty.






Reply: To revmarOK
The other women I've referred to as "guys" have (mostly) been "amused" also. Primarily because my intended use of the expression (with reference to them) was to amuse. Admittedly, the posting of mine you referenced, was a drive-by -- you can take the boy out of the city but you can't take the city out of the boy. If I had taken the time, or at least waited until after the prayer meeting, I might have noticed your user name was marOK and not marK, as I had imagined. Nonetheless, methinks you wear your title on your sleeve. St. Francis said, "Preach the Gospel at all times. When necessary, use words." Whether you care to admit it or not, you use your Reverend status as a cudgel – “I am Reverend, hear me roar.” Try living your life and advancing your arguments without calling attention to your calling, you may find the experience liberating. On another note, it’s fortunate that the Presbyterian G.A. reversed itself on Israel, but I still don’t think John Calvin would recognize what you’ve done (collectively over the years) to his denomination.

Insofar as Ann is concerned, in the words of Shakespeare “To thine own self be true.” Interestingly enough Coulter lives her name. Coulter – “A knife or cutter, attached to the beam of a plow to cut the sward [turf], in advance of the plowshare…” (WorldNet2.0, 2003 Princeton University) Ann is cutting through fallow ground, in straight lines, exposing roots, and preparing the previously hard packed soil for seed, new growth, and a bountiful harvest. It’s dirty work, but somehow she seems to be up to the task. And if Ann is “mean,” it’s because a plowman’s work is, mean. Her latest book, Godless, takes on those who have attempted to stifle honest dialogue, by exposing their tactics and in so doing, has herself, become a lightning rod. The fact that people can no longer express an opinion or belief, without being accused of: hate speech, hate mongering, homophobia, and so on, is in my opinion doing more to ruin “our beloved country” than “the extremes on both the liberal and conservative sides.” For example, why is it that we can discuss the perils of cigarette smoking but not the hazards of homosexuality? How loving is it to do absolutely nothing, while men (due to lifestyle choice) perish, mostly in their mid-forties, and fewer than 5% of old age? We can’t even discuss the validity of their supposed objective studies without being classified as homophobic Nazis.

We need people like Ann Coulter to break through the uncultivated ground; in order to plant seed, water, fertilize, weed, prune and harvest. She's doing exactly what her intended purpose in life is. Each of us should consider what it is we’re called to do, and then go do it. Ann is.

Reply: To revmarOK
What I said was, they did not have the political right to execute anyone. When they did, they broke Roman law. Good grief - What an argument. Because they broke Roman laws, that gives them political right to do it. What kind of nonsense is that. In 70 AD. the Romans under General Titus, leveled Jerusalem - leaving not one stone upon another. Most were killed, some became slaves, some escaped to other countries. Yes, that's some considerable political power those Pharisees wielded. Sidebar: Truth first - love next. That's the order. For without the truth you have no Gospel. Who gives a rip what most scholars say. What do you say? Your not going to meet the Lord with scholars by your side.

Reply: To Cutter Bench
Well said Cutter Bench. That the Israel thing should have even existed is deplorable. I guess when you devalue Truth and mistake niceness for love, it leads to moral confusion. I also think John Calvin would be excommunicated from this denomination, as meanspirited, definitely lacking in love(niceness) and unwilling to compromise the Truth. Do you think they have a copy of the Westminister Confession of Faith, or do they judge it as heretical teachings?

To BS Detector
Is there any such thing as originality? I would submit to you that the definition of plagarize [to steal and use (the ideas or writings of another) as one's own] must be applied LIBERALLY. I didn't bother to footnote where I got the definition because you probably already know. One must copy a brick in order to build a fortress. Seems to me the brick looses it's identity within the context of the final result. The plagarism software you seem to advocate relying upon reminds me of the software they use to dicern the DaVinci Code. The appearance of patterns and reptition in journalism do not stand on their singular existence. How they are framed is their distinguishing characteristic.

I would use Darwin's "The Origin of Species" as such an example. People point to Darwin's work as a reasonable assertion that man was not created but evolved. I read Darwin. He never claims that man evolved from apes. What he does say is that "the creator" made some basic and fundamental speicies and the diversity that we see today evolved and propagated through natural selection. Therefore I could reasonably take the position that Darwin is a creation theory advocate.

Reasonable and intelligent minds both use the same source to validate opposing views. The position I take utilizes building blocks that come from elsewhere. By encompassing a plentitude of ideas and framing them towards my point of view, the raw materials take on a new identity.

It is impossible to take on definitive points of view without using the pathways of other writers and thinkers. I would laud your mention of plagarism detection software as a means of discovering repetition but not plagarism. The addition of one ingredient can change the whole flavor of a recipe. Using plagarism software only makes the dicernment process more tedious and in the end does not reduce uncertainty. It's mention does provide a larger audience and hence expand your potential market place.

You can choose any prolific writer you want and get the same results just as the DaVinci Code software does.

Ann-tagonizer
Ann just likes the sound of her own voice.
She provoked someone once, realized that this was
a chance for her to get attention, and has made a career out of it. One thing she certainly doesn't do is listen to others. She isn't happy unless she has attacked someone and made someone else feel bad. It is, of course, conservative to make others feel bad. She doesn't want to be thought of as a sissy or someone with a bleeding heart. That being said, I'd have to say that she is entertaining. She it rather witty and fun to read, even though I find that I disagree with her more and more about issues. I am not liberal, but I do believe in being at least polite to others when you speak to them, which maybe Jesus might teach... But then again Jesus called other "vipers" and other bad names, so I'm sure that Coulter would pounce all over that and justify her behavior. Ironically, I do not believe any politicians act like Christians. Where does it say, "love is patient, kind, holds no record of wrongs, etc???" But don't get me wrong! I am no Christian! But to those who profess it I do expect them to at least try to follow their religion or else they should just shut up about it. Coulter's book is called godless, and then she puts all liberals in the camp of the godless. Why? Most liberals I know are (liberal) Christians that go to Church on a regular basis. Most people I know that are not 'religious' are most likely not to vote for any candidates. Yes, I do not understand liberal Christians because they make things up as they go along, but most 'conservative' Christians of today do not realize that their denominations do not go back much further then the 1800's. The Charismatics and Assembly of God people started their religion in the 19th or 20th century, just like the Mormons, 7th Day Adventests, JW's and others. Today's Baptist Churches are way different then the way they were 200 years ago. The best word to use for this kind of change is 'evolution'. The Churches have evolved over the years, and there is little continuity over what Christians believe now and what they believed centuries ago. And there has been many splits in the 20th century among liberal/cconservative lines. Coulter is ignoring the fact that many liberals are indeed religious, church going people, and yes, many secular minded intellectuals are socialists and therefore are more likely to vote for the Democrats. But this doesn't mean that they are in control of the Democratic Party. Perhaps the joke is that no one controls the Democratic Party! lol It is true that they have no direction and are for the most part losers! Their only hope is in Bush doing bad on the war. Ann is fun to watch, but she is a loose cannon and she is crazy. She would commit suicide if suddenly no one listened to what she had to say. She is an insecure person which is why she loves to cut others down so much. She is like a "wicked witch" out for the kill. I mean imagine her being your wife! Could she be gracious or give compliments? Could you imagine her doing the dishes or any other kind of work that traditionally is considered woman's work? I bet she is just as much as a feminist as anyone. We all know how power hungry she is, and that isn't necessarily bad. It's just that her personality is so vile that I wouldn't want to be in her way on a bad day.

Finkelstein
Very well put. Your articulation of the view that I was trying to impress upon BS Detector was better than anything I could say. If authors labored under the mindset BS Detector expounds, everyone would be acknowledging everyone else back until we spoke Middle English. A book 750 pages long would be 500 page of notes and acknowlegments. People like BS Detector tip their hands with statements like,"You have the book, I DON'T -- is it attributed?" This is why I suggested she read and draw her own conclusions and I'm speaking with respect to context and the presentation of ideas which you, Finkelstein so aptly put.And the classic "look at the analysis, not the conclusion." Stunning. Classic liberal doublespeak. I have no idea where to begin with that.
Anyway, Finkelstein, good post.

To Damian
Where do I begin? I think I shall begin at the beginning. (Lewis Carroll rip-off)

“In the beginning the Word [Jesus] already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He existed in the beginning with God. God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him. The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not understood it.” (John 1:1-5 NLT) Jesus as part of the triune (Father, Son & Holy Spirit) God was, is and always will be.

The Christian message – unchanged from the time of Christ until present day -- is simply this, “God helps those who CANNOT help themselves.” We believe in; the triune nature of God, the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, man’s salvation through Christ alone, the resurrection of the dead to everlasting life, and that Christ suffered, died and rose to life on the third day and that he rules and reigns, with God the Father in heaven to this present day. Those are not negotiable. To become a Christian you cannot; join, earn, purchase, parlay, bargain, win, sacrifice, be coerced, or otherwise do anything, in and of yourself, to merit salvation. It is simply a gift from God. You do however, have to recognize your sinfulness and repent (turn from your sins), ask for and freely receive forgiveness, acknowledge Christ’s sacrifice for your sins, and ask him (Jesus) to come into your heart and take up residence there. That is the Good News in a nutshell and it is for “Whosoever will.” Revolutionary, wouldn’t you say? No other belief system has a Savior that provides a substitutionary death. Christianity stands alone, in that Christ did for us what we were incapable of doing for ourselves. Christ said, "Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: `I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.' For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners." (Matthew 9:13 NLT)

Denominations will come and go; they will wax and wane but the message of Christianity has and will remain constant. True born saints of every stripe and from every age understand, Christianity, after all, is not a denomination, it is a personal relationship with Christ.

If you’ve prayed the prayer, find yourself a good bible believing church. Oh and by the way, during your search, the easiest way to avoid becoming a “Kool-Aid drinker” is, if the church, denomination, fellowship, temple, mosque, society, organization (you get the picture) you attend tells you, “We are the only true way.” Run don’t walk to the nearest exit.

To Cutter Bench $ Gadfly
I promised myself that my post of July 7 would be my last -- but then I read your remark about wearing my title on my sleeve. I went back to my original post of July 6, and noted that the only reason I stated my vocation was because I read that Ann attends a Presbyterian church -- and I felt that (in my opinion) she (with "poison" pen and cutting sarcasm)did not reflect Christian or Reformed teachings. I know you will not agree with me on that one, but it's what I believe. If you knew me, you would know that I do not use my position as a weapon -- far from it -- but when I see what I believe to be an error in judgment, I do speak out -- and I felt you were being very judgmental in your assessment of me (but in fairness, less so than Reaganite who called me a secular humanist liberal hack!!! -- that made my son laugh!).
I guess that is the hazard of free expression. Speaking of truth -- it would do us all good to remember St. Paul's admonition to "speak the truth in love" -- or is that an impossibility in politics?

To Gadfly -- no, I won't be dragging along any scholars to the pearly gates. But they're pretty handy down here with all the squabbling that goes on. Your words reminded me of a line from the old hymn, "Rock of Ages" --.
"... nothing in my hand I bring, Simply to thy cross I cling."
Politics brings out the worst in me, and I don't want to start sounding like Ann, so I'll keep my promise this time.

RevmarOK
Reverend,

It seems as though I hit a nerve! However you may attempt to justify your original posting, the fact remains, you identified yourself as a Pastor. That, in and of itself, conveyed (by implication) a position of superiority. Your exact words are as follows, "As a Presbyterian pastor, I am disappointed that Ann does not pay closer attention to our Presbyterian beliefs." Margaret Thatcher once said, "Being powerful is like being a lady. If you say you are, you're not." You invited reaganite's criticism and other's simply by asserting (consciously or otherwise) a spiritual one-upmanship. Why not, as a Presbyterian, I...? Are you disappointed as a "Presbyterian Pastor" or because you do not believe she exemplifies your "Presbyterian beliefs?" Would you be any less "disappointed" if you were a Presbyterian pew warmer?

Is it Maria, Mary, Marianne? I'm trying to help you out here. Political discourse can be difficult but it is needful and we won't move forward without honest dialogue.

-Tom

To Cutter Bench
OK, -- one more comment. I don't know why you have taken my self-identification as a Presbyterian pastor as a sign that I feel superior. I only clarify my vocation if it is relevant to the discussion (which I believe it was, since it was noted that Ann attends a Presby. church).
I see my calling as a servant leader, which was borne out over and over in my years as the solo pastor of a small church I served.
I can assure you that my role as servant overtook every other aspect of my ministry. Perhaps it is because folks have heard that Presbyterians place such great stock in education (which is true) -- but just a few briefs months into the ministry let us know in no uncertain terms that we are servants.
Since Jesus "took a towel" as they say, I am glad to follow that example. Sorry if I inadvertantly gave any other impression.
After Scripture and other religious reading, I like to delve into politics -- (since my undergraduate minor was political science) but mostly enjoy discussions where the merits (or de-merits) of both sides are heard. Come to think of it, that's why I posted in the first place.
The mar is for Marlene.

To Marlene
Good morning Marlene, Happy Lord's Day!
One clarification. I did not at anytime convey that you "feel superior." Only God knows the intent of one's heart. Hopefully, it will be said (by Him) of you, "She had a heart like unto My own."

revmarOK
You live in a greenhouse - climate controlled. A wonderful environment to live in. You don't have to deal with Nature in its wildness - Often harsh and at times very severe. You see what's going on around you and decide to open your door, and throw a rock or two at someone on your own side. Then to your utter amazement you are appalled, that others would throw rocks back at you. How so not nice of them. Out here in the wild, you have to learn how to take a hit and not fall apart, or you will not survive. You have to learn how to use whatever weapons you have. Either that, or stay in your greenhouse and stop throw stones. If you throw them expect them in return. Its only fair. Ann's is a very good rock thrower, much to the enemies surprise. She also takes a lot hits. She does need them from greenhoused people, who can't handle even a pebble. David didn't kill Goliath by being nice. He had his trusty sling shot, and pick a perfect stone, and hit him between the eyes and down he came. Your are going to have to learn how to handle the heat, if you want to cook in this kitchen.

To Gadfly
It amazes me how people can practically "psychoanalyze" a person from a few brief posts. I don't possess such powers. If you knew more of me, Gadfly, you would be surprised by the hits I've taken, and all outside my "greenhouse" After a moving communion service this morning, I am more convinced than ever that I would rather discuss differing ideas with civility than with hostility and personal attack such as Ann C. engages in -- which further divides our country.
As I previously stated, discussing politics often brings out the worst in me -- and you have no idea how many sarcastic remarks I have stifled in these posts. I continue to welcome the discussion of ideas -- such as the current war, immigration, health care, national security, etc.
I have very strong feelings about all the issues, but hopefully can discuss them without
hostility and needless name calling. I can acknowledge Ann's wittiness and writing ability -- even some of her ideas -- but still be repulsed by her divisive rhetoric even though such tactics seem to sell more books. In other words, I don't have to call her "witchy broad" to get my point across. I guess that entertains some people; it leaves me cold. Now, back to the World Cup on TV -- now, there's a conflict!
Wish we could settle the world's problems with a soccer game. Please don't analyze that statement, I'm simply a sports fan.

To Cutter Bench
It is, indeed a beautiful Lord's Day here --
How I would love to know that I was a "person after God's own heart." In my estimation, I fail all too often (especially when discussing politics!) I have only one friend with whom I can engage in civil disagreement. All my other friends (on the left and right) and I have agreed to leave politics out of our conversation, as some of them get really, really angry. Luckily, we're all Christians, so at least we don't have to disagree about religion!
You know what they say about politics and religion!

To Marlene - Politics & Religion
Funny you should make reference to politics and religion. You probably are aware that many of our country's Founding Fathers were far more than Deist, a number of them were actually ministers. They had no compunction whatsoever about sharing their faith, from the church or political dais. The first English-language bible was even endorsed by the United States Congress. This autumn, I plan on doing a six to eight week series, using material provided by Wallbuilders (www.wallbuilders.com). Our forefathers understood that government without moral underpinnings would lead to anarchy. Much of the foundational truths of our nation’s history have been watered down or completely revised. I hope to do my part, albeit however small, to set the record straight

To STANDTALL
Thank you STANDTALL for your encouragement. My post utilized your comments as building blocks for my response. My "articulation" had an evolution. Your comments were part of the unbroken chain. Without your agumentations, my ideas would not have achieved the proper form. BS Detector's software would never have picked up on the fact that your ideas were fundamental to my thought processes. I didn't think you would mind me drawing upon your inspiration. In BS Detector's world, I plagarized your material!

revmarOK - again please answer questions
revmarOK – I appreciate your sympathies (another red herring tactic) but I wish you would engage in true debate and discussion of ideas; not just announce to the World that you are a minister and then make personal attacks against Ann Coulter followed by additional rounds of personal attacks against those you reply to your posts.

I called you a hack, secular, humanist liberal based on the lack of merits and the thesis of your original post, not just because I disagree with you. I don’t call everybody I disagree with a hack, secular humanist liberal. You opened your post by announcing to the World you are a minister. You then proceeded to condemn and vilify Ann without offering any true forms of debate and reasoning. Can you cite any falsehoods or errors in Ann’s book? Can you offer a reasoned, factual repudiation of any of Ann’s points? You only offered platitudes and general references to Constitutional debate, the Bible and Jesus Christ in your original post. You alluded to compromise as being good and I countered by citing the fact that slavery in the US came about as Constitutional compromise. I also challenged you to cite one Biblical example of Jesus compromising his law and principles. I see you didn’t address the counter points and inquiries made of you?

The most offensive and un-Godly (and most telling) part of your post was your stereo-typing all political conservatives as “Scribes and Pharisees.” In addition to being very political and ignorant that comment basically revealed your political and religious composition. I guess by extension of that logic you are calling Billy Graham, the Pope and Catholic Church and 99.9% of American Protestant Churches “scribes and Pharisees.” The ultimate in hypocrisy was your comment “I am disappointed that Ann does not pay closer attention to our Presbyterian beliefs.” Now who sounds like the Pharisee? Adherence to Presbyterian beliefs makes one religious. A personal relationship with Jesus Christ makes one a believer and Christian. In one of your follow-up posts even you admit the earthly, human short comings of religion, “the current G.A. corrected the Israel policy this year.” Did Jesus ever have to correct his policy?

Back to you being an Evangelical, Christian Minister. From the Pharisees, Scribes, and Judaizers of New Testament times to Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggert and the Catholic pedophiles of current times there have always been false preachers and prophets who invoke the name of God in order to promote their personal, earthly and political agendas. There are “many passages from the Bible” where Jesus and the apostles warn believers to be diligent and rebuke false prophets and preachers. What are your views on same-gender romantic/intimate relationships and abortion? Does God forbid same-gender romantic/intimate relationships in all forms and does God forbid abortion? Conversely does God ever condom same-gender romantic/intimate relationships and abortion?


To Marlene - re: reaganite/apaq
Welcome to the blog-o-sphere Rev. You might have noticed titles and alphabets don't get you very far in this arena; it's a level playing field and it's the way we like it. If you're going to make a point or an allegation, you have to be willing to support it. In other words, either you got game or you get back on the bus. You wrote in an earlier post that you're "a sports fan." Here’s your chance to play. Ball’s in your court; we're all waiting to see what you've got...

To Reaganite
I re-read my posts and found no personal attacks. I attacked Ann's methodology, not her.
Below is what I wrote in another post -- and I stand by it.

"I continue to welcome the discussion of ideas --such as the current war, immigration, health care, national security, etc.
I have very strong feelings about all the issues, but hopefully can discuss them without
hostility and needless name calling. I can acknowledge Ann's wittiness and writing ability -- even some of her ideas -- but still be repulsed by her divisive rhetoric even though such tactics seem to sell more books. In other words, I don't have to call her "witchy broad"
to get my point across."

The "witchy broad" comment by me was in regard to her calling the 9/11 widows "witches of Brunswick," and broads who should take their money and shut up -- not to mention enjoying their husband's deaths. I agree with her that anyone in the public eye (and public service -- thanks to them for the 9/11 commission) is subject to criticism. But hers was so "over the top" as to be highly offensive.

To repeat, I have some conservative views on various issues -- but I think I've made it pretty clear that it is not so much her ideas as her method of getting them across. Criticizing her method and style is very far from personal attack. I can say the same thing about the NY Times' Maureen Dowd. I sometimes agree with her, and appreciate her writing talent, but find her too sarcastic and biting. Even Peggy Noonan, whose columns I enjoy, was too caustic a few weeks back.

Also, I have not attacked you, but rather your accusations. I don't understand your saying about me: "you're no pastor," hack, secular humanist liberal, (and by inference, false preacher) and yes, you even called me a liar. Is that civil discourse and the exchange of ideas? I think not.
You seem to be fixated on homsexuality and abortion -- subjects which I have opinions, but it would be conterproductive to get into them except at the most basic level. In those opinions, I concur with Condi Rice. That will save some time going into.

I have written numerous responses to various issues on the web. I only stated that I was a pastor two other times, because I felt it was relevant to the discussion, as I felt this one was. I was not "announcing to the world" that I was a pastor. Is it some kind of crime to state one's vocation? At any rate, on other sites and blogs I haven't been called such disrespectful names from people who don't even know me. I don't consider that "hardball" --I consider it rudeness -- the lack of civility which is exacerbated by "shout radio and TV" on both sides. I get enough criticism from people who know me.

As to Jesus and compromise -- of course he didn't compromise. He was God -- and we're not. And, no, Jesus didn't have to correct his policies -- again, he was GOD. We are humans with human failings. The motto of the PCUSA is "Ecclesia Reformata, Semper Reformanda" -- which means, "the church Reformed, always being reformed." Yes, there are errors in the church, any church -- and we hope to address them as new light is given to us.

As to the Pharisees -- perhaps I didn't clarify sufficiently -- my apologies. They were good people, often conservatives in the best sense --law-abiding, generous tithers, pillars of society -- keepers of the Law -- but it was their rigid protection of their oral Torah -- the "traditions of the elders" which got them into trouble with Jesus, and vice versa.

This wil be my last response to you, I cannot seem to get beyond your anger. I'm sure there are a lot of folks who are willing to agree with your position and with whom you might have a more fruitful discussion. I couldn't help but thinking of your namesake -- the president who tempered his toughness with good humor.

To Cutter Bench
Tom -- I'm not new to the blog-o-sphere or posting. I just don't like being called called a liar, etc. I don't consider that "hardball."
I've had my ideas trashed (which is OK) but I really dislike blatant personal attack such as R. engages in. I still don't understand all the kerfuffle about my saying I was a pastor. It was very relevant, I thought. If Ann had had a sore shoulder, say, and a doctor wrote in, I would consider that relevant, not flaunting of one's title. Well, let's forget that one -- we obviously don't agree.
As I went back to my first post, I think my point was clear. I don't like Ann's methods of getting her ideas across, and I think they're counterproductive, disrespectful, and not at all like "speaking the truth in love."
That was it. I clarified the Pharisee remark in my post to R. Wow! it sure did lead to a lot of talk.
On a more interesting subject... you said you are working on a series -- are you a preacher? teacher? professor?
In what setting will it be presented? I would be interested in seeing some info on it.
The subject is very current, especially as there is so much talk of "church and state" so to speak. One of my conservative views is that we need to preserve who we are as a country. I believe that English should be the national language (I mean no disrespect to Spanish, or any other language.) Our language and culture (including religion -- as long as we don't hit people over the head with it) define us, much as France's or England's. To my way of thinking, that does not curtail anyone's religious (or any other kind of) freedom.


WELL, ITS' OFFICIAL
As of late Tuesday afternoon, Ms. Coulter's publisher, Universal Syndicate cleared her of any plagiarism charges in the tempest in a teapot scandal set in motion by noted "pattern recognition expert" and Ph.d. from UC Berkeley, John Barrie.
I was never in doubt of Ms. Coulter prevailing over this feeble attempt to discredit her throught this inane pseudo science.
Plagiarism, dear readers, is when someone attempts to portray as their own material borrowed directly from the works of others and tries to pass it off as their own.
Like good ol' Joe Biden. You remember him, don't you? In his last bid for the presidency, Sen. Biden made a number of speeches he fobbed off as his own material but were actually word for word ripoffs of material written by Labor MP of Parliament, Neil Mckinnock.
Biden was able to avoid complete career meltdown by blaming this obvious and blatant plagiarism on his speech writers. He withdrew from his campaign. It was a low point for him, but I was not surprised. I remember him at his zenith, his righteous anger spewing forth along with his newly installed blood encrusted/coagulated hair transplant stumps angrily on display in all their glory over his furrowed brow,clenched teeth grimaces as he angrily warned Republican senators that he would "cut them off," in their attempts to question liberal incarnation of the "Lady of Lourdes," Dr. Anita Hill. Anyone who would appear in public much less in front of 100 million people on national TV has no shame and is capable of anything.
To BS Detector, just a few thoughts: Better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.*1
Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart. Any man over 30 who is a liberal has no brains.*2
By the way, how do you like your crow prepared?*3

PS: BS, are you going to have your "Detector" recalibrated?
Ackowlegements:
1. Oscar Wilde
2. Winston Churchill
3. BS Detector

CLARIFICATION
on national TV looking like that has no shame.

To RevmarOK
Marlene -- I didn’t really think you were new to the blog or posting. You did however, write two days ago, that you had promised yourself your last posting was going to be three day ago. You have to admit my challenge did get your blood up?

Frankly though, I think you’ve opened yourself up for some additional analytical criticism. Case in point -- what you saw as, a “public service – thanks to them for the 9/11 commission” we saw as, a public nuisance, a Clinton Whitewash and a monumental waste of time and resources. And although Reaganite may be as subtle as a sledgehammer, I agree with his request for specifics. All too often liberals have been allowed, by a complicit media, to say whatever they want and have it uncritically disseminated. Thanks to talk radio, the internet and Fox News we have the ability to take them to task. Many of Ann’s most vocal critics haven’t read any of her books. Have you? I have an extra copy of Godless in my library. You wouldn’t even have to pay for postage. Heaven knows, if you can suffer through a Maureen Dowd column, you can easily read 281 pages of Ann Coulter. By the way, is there any truth to the rumor, Mo’s on suicide watch after seeing her placement in the Beta Research Corporation survey commissioned by Esquire -- last place for invited female dinner guests? Given that she deigned men were put off by powerful women (like her) it must have been devastating to see the most powerful woman in the world, Condi Rice come in first, as the most sought after dinner guest by men. But I digress.

Insofar as my church activities are concerned, I’m merely a table-waiter. Most recently I conducted a Men’s Bible Study using John Eldridge’s book, Wild at Heart and I oversee the weekly Men’s Prayer Meeting. Thus far, the material I have reviewed for the autumn series are a book and DVD, both entitled, A Spiritual Heritage by David Barton. I also have, The Role of Pastors & Christians in Civil Government by David Barton in DVD. There is a wealth of information at www.wallbuilders.com, including promotional materials and tracts.

To Cutter Bench
Thanks for your comments. I think I've spent all the time I care to on Ann Also, thanks for your generous offer of sending her book -- it was very kind -- but I respectfully decline. You asked if I had read the book. Because I don't wish to add more gold to her coffers, I sat down in a comfy chair at Borders, and read until I could take no more. You keep saying for me to be more specific -- but that would take a week or so. When she makes so many outrageous statements, it's hard to choose just one. For example her statement that "liberalism is a comprehensive belief system denying the Christian belief in man’s immortal soul."
In making such an inane statement, she does not bother to delineate extreme liberal nuts from all the rest. Conversely, there are conservatives, and then there are extreme conservative nuts. I think there is a great difference, and am fair enough to acknowledge that. I could go on and on but for what purpose. I have to keep going back to my original post. She could have argued any one of her points without the intellectual distortion (such as the above quote -- and that's a pretty mild example compared to her other pronouncements.) Even if everything she said were true, I still can't for the life of me understand how anyone (especially a Christian) could condone such outrageous use of language.
You are obviously a committed Christian and I respect you for that -- I even can respect your
acceptance of Ann's stylistic method -- I just don't understand it.
Your study series sounds interesting. I've been very busy and haven't had much time to explore the site you suggested. Hope all goes well with your series.

As Usual, Ann Provokes
I'll take Coulter's "meaness" anytime. After all, it was the liberals and their respected icons (Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro, Hitler, et alia) who killed dozens of millions for "the greater good."

And don't try to tell me Hitler was a Fascist. He was a socialist totalitarian just like Stalin. Not a dime's worth of diference.

To RevmarOK
"After a moving communion service this morning, I am more convinced than ever that I would rather discuss differing ideas with civility than with hostility and personal attack such as Ann C. engages in -- which further divides our country."
What a statement. All warm fuzzies and no cold pricklies. Yes indeedy. Heaven on earth. Seems you have forgotten about the fall. You know Adam and Eve getting kick out of the garden by God. Oh no, cold pricklies. How unkind of Him. Lets see, we became a country by the revolutionary WAR. No tea and crumpets with the good old King of England, how sad. Country very divided. Abolished slavery, with the civil WAR. Not a very civil way to end a dispute, how sad. Country very very divided. Yes, the way to stop evil, is with civility and no hostility. Who needs a standing army, police, jails, government etc. We will all just be nice. I understand your longing, but we need to live in the world that is, not in Disneyland. Or is that a greenhouse? I am not opposing your person. As you said, I don't know you. It's your WORLDVIEW. Which I think is naive at best.


To RevmarOK
I couldn't resist. Your sentence to Reaganite - "I couldn't help but thinking of your namesake -- the president who tempered his toughness with good humor." You should talk to Moamer Kadhafi of Libya. When President Reagan bombed his compound and killed some of his loved ones, and came pretty close to getting him to. I don't think he saw any of President Reagan's tempered toughness or good humor. He did see his untempered toughness. It worked you know. Good thing you weren't in that compound that morning. I think you would be singing a different song about President Reagan.

Provocative Question to all
I wanted to question something Ann said that we have grown accustomed to believing, I think, without even thinking about it. She wrote:

"Any Christian slaveholder had to violate Christianity to own slaves."

Let's talk about how it is that Christianity (I guess meaning teachings in the Bible) speaks against slavery.

I am not sure that is a true statement. Think about it and research it before you dismiss me as an idiot. (After your thinking and researching you may call me an idiot and I may agree.)


Reply: To Mr. B
This is just my understanding on slavery. Christianity has one main concern. Ones relationship to God. It's primary mission is to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. To restore the individual's relationship to God. Christianity does not attack political institutions directly. As the Gospel was preached and more people became
Christians they started to understand the evils of slavery, and went about ending it by political means. I believe it took so long to end it was not Christianity, but the world in it's opposition to God. Hard to change institutionalized evil. Like the saying "all the glitters is not gold", not all who say they are Christians are. I have meet people who say they are Christians because they live in America, or they were raised in the church. With that kind of thinking, I suppose Hitler could say he was a Christian, but we know better don't we. I have personally let go of many things, as I have grown in understanding of their wrongness. It didn't
happen overnight, but over time. Was I wrong to hang on them for a while? Yes, I believe I was. Was it easy to let go? No. There is a learning and growth process in this. We don't teach calculus to 3 year olds do we. Mr. B, do you always live up to light you have? I do believe Ann is right. As far as the Bible, it neither condones nor condemns slavery, outright. I know this will upset people especially unbelievers, but it is what it is. I do think there is a higher wisdom working here.

On the Bible/Christians and slavery
Gadfly, thanks for engaging with my question.

I agree with you that the Bible doesn't explicitly condemn slavery. Any slavery it speaks of (if I remember correctly) is of a wholly different nature from that which existed in America as a result of the slave trade, so I think we may be comparing apples to oranges if we attempt to discuss Biblical instances of slavery in the same breath as we discuss slavery in America.

That said, we know that the Bible does address how we should live as far as relationships with one another. With that in mind, what are your thoughts on slavery given the following hypothetical situation:

A slave owner treats his slaves as he would members of his own family. He does not treat them like animals, he does not beat them mercilously, he treats them with respect. In return, the slaves love their master and are grateful for the shelter, food, and other neccesities of life this arrangement provides.

Do you think that the above slave owner can with good conscience (key word) claim to be a dedicated Christian whose authority is the Bible?


To Mr. B
Your welcome Mr. B. I agree there can be apple to oranges comparison concerning slavery through time. The Roman empire's foundation was based on slavery. It could not have function without it. For most,the slaves life was brutal and short. I do believe that there is an inherent conflict with Christianity and any slavery. Some of the reasons, not all. Ownership = property. Since God created all of us, he is the only owner of us. So one could say, your depriving God of his right to rule. The slave owner also denies the slave the freedom of choice he enjoys. There is also a problem with slavery with its inherent parent\child relationship with adults. I suppose in the past one could of started out with a good conscience, since it was institutionalized, but I think the tensions would become greater over time, as history shows. Unfortunately, conscience can be disobeyed, ignored, not well informed etc. as we all know. I do believe the above slave owner would feel the tensions over time, what he does about it is another matter. I think the term claim is problematic. Claming and being are to different things. I can claim I am President Bush, but I am not actually.
Question: If Christianity would have attacked the Roman empire's institutionalized slavery, how do you think they would have responded?
Correction from previous response - Like the saying "all that glitters is not gold"

To RevmarOK
Marlene, hopefully you will have opportunity to read this. I wanted to respond to your blog long before now, and perhaps should have (in the very least) indicated as much. When I first saw your posting (one week ago today) I thought, “Now we’re getting somewhere! Progress! Eureka!” After five days of prompting, cajoling, and challenging, you’ve made a specific reference, excerpted from page 3 of Godless, “liberalism is a comprehensive belief system denying the Christian belief in man’s immortal soul.” Were I to have guessed, I would have surmised, “As a Presbyterian pastor” you would have taken greater exception to her statement at the end of chapter one, page 22, “I would be crestfallen to discover any liberals in heaven.” Frankly, as a professing Christian, it’s the one line in Godless that I take strong exception to. However, you chose to make liberalism (not liberals mind you) your point of contention.

So, let’s see what liberalism has to say about itself. In the Oxord Manifesto 1947 the preamble reads as follows, “We Liberals… Convinced that this condition of the world is largely due to the abandonment of liberal principles; Affirm our faith (emphasis added) in this Declaration…” In the Liberal Declaration of Oxford 1967, article 3, regarding “The fundamental task of our time… Such free societies can only be created and maintained through unremitting devotion (emphasis added) to the principles of liberalism. Does any of the foregoing sound remotely like religion? And although liberalism may affirm religious freedom, it does so within a very narrow construct. (1) “A belief in individual freedom in all spheres of life (political, economic, social, intellectual and religious). Freedom is conceived as freedom from all authority that is capable of acting capriciously or arbitrarily, freedom to act in accordance with the dictates of "right reason" -- i.e., with the dictates of natural law as it is revealed to men through natural reason.” But what you may ask, about Ann’s argument? I could point out that liberalism has it’s roots in humanism and that the natural course will be for it to return to it’s roots. (2) “Religious Humanism considers the complete realization of human personality to be the end of man's life and seeks its development and fulfillment in the here and now. This is the explanation of the humanist's social passion.” What I believe Ann has done however is to render an ipso facto conclusion. In the words of Jesus, “[W]isdom is proved right by her actions.” (Matt. 11:19b) The liberal intelligentsias, not liberals per se, are actively engaged in removing the (3) Judeo-Christian God from the public square and are in many ways effectively “denying the Christian belief in man’s immortal soul.” The evidence is all around you. And although you may not want to hear it, despite (or in spite of -- depending on your perspective) her occasional use of visceal language, Ann did an exceptional job in proving her suppositions.

1 John Hallowell, Main Currents in Modern Political Thought, New York: Holt, Rinehart, and Winston, 1950.
(2) Written in 1933, Humanist Manifesto I, article 8.
(3) In Godless Ann qualifies that her reference to Christians includes Jews as well.

ANN COULTER - MY MENTOR!!
It's not that the pseudo-liberals actually believe Ann Coulter is a vile, hateful person. They actually idolize such folks... IF they are akin to the pseudo-liberals.

What the pseudo-liberals detest about Ann Coulter is the fact she is INTELLIGENT, has a great sense of humor and sarcasm (something they have tried to attain for years), is adept at research and accuracy in her articles, is a very nice looking female, and (possibly the worst thing about her) cannot be intimidated by anyone.

What the right-winger critics hate about Ann Coulter is the fact she is a female who does not abide by the "traditional" female dictorium. Again, she cannot be controlled. She is intelligent and NOT afraid to say it like it is.

KEEP ON TRACK, ANN!! True AMERICANS love you!!!!!

Top secret interview
Right on Ann. After reading your book, and also reading David Horowitz book " The Professors " I see where all the " Newspaper " bias, and incredible Liberal stupidity comes from.

When will they figure it ou
I do you think, Ann, that you should separate between the Left and the common Liberal.
Your strong words are more suitable for Leftists.

The Dems have taken on the rhetoric of the Left and are no longer truely Liberal. With Leninist influences like Michael Moore, it's no wonder.

Collin

http://evangelicalperspective.blogspot.com

Hatred and bigotry
Does this person have a soul or a heart? You should all be ashamed of yourselves for encouraging her brand of hatred and bigotry. It's spreading. She and you are the reason.
If you were to read something OTHER than Ann Coulter's* hatred and warped view of what is patriotic, surely you would see she is as far from patriotic as possible.
Patriotism should include caring for her country and its citizens - she cares for neither.

*substitute O'Reilly, etc, as you like

where is my blog?
I guess I don't conform to the needs of town hall. I am a consevative and my opinions refect that but, the link to my blog has been eliminated,
"Stepping up to the plate"

Love Ann!
As a conservative female, I can safely say that I have great admiration for Ann Coulter. This woman says what MANY of us conservatives would like to say, but lack her eloquence.
Plagerism? PLEASE! Have you SEEN or READ her books? The endnote sections are very thick with references for her quotes.
Yes, she's abrasive, but she says these things with such style! Can the left say the same of Randi Rhodes or Maureen Dowd? (Randi yells, and Maureen whines -- neither is stylish or entertaining.)
I SAY, AS AN ANN FAN, "GO,ANN,GO!"
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