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Tuesday, October 14, 2008
Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama's Infanticide Lie
by Amanda Carpenter
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This article is from the October issue of Townhall Magazine. To subscribe to twelve issues of Townhall Magazine and receive a free copy of Sarah: How a Hockey Mom Turned Alaska's Political Establishment on Its Ear, click here.

Newly discovered documents from the Illinois state archives prove Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has lied about his opposition as an Illinois state senator to legislation requiring health officials to provide care to babies who survived abortion.

Obama has repeatedly claimed he would have voted for Illinois’ version of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act (BAIPA) had it included language to protect abortion rights guaranteed by Roe v. Wade, as the federal version of the bill did, which sailed through the U.S. Senate 98-0. Contrary to what Obama has said, forgotten records from the Illinois Senate archives show Obama did vote against a BAIPA bill that included such a neutrality clause virtually identical to the federal bill.

“We have a smoking gun committee report,” said National Right to Life Committee Legislative Counsel Susan Muskett.

Muskett’s “smoking gun” is a 2003 Health and Human Services Committee report recorded by Republican committee staff. It documents a unanimous 10-0 vote by the 2003 Illinois Senate Health and Human Services Committee, which Obama chaired at the time, to amend BAIPA to include the exact same language that was added to the federal version to protect Roe v. Wade. The committee report also shows a subsequent “final action” vote to determine if the bill should advance out of committee or be killed. The bill was defeated 6-4. Chairman Obama voted in the majority.

This means that, in essence, Obama voted to successfully amend the bill in a way that Obama has said would have enabled him to support it—before he voted against it. It also puts Obama further to the left of NARAL Pro-Choice America. According to a statement released by the abortion-rights lobby in the run-up to the U.S. Senate’s BAIPA vote in 2002, “NARAL does not oppose passage of the Born Alive Infants Protection Act … floor debate served to clarify the bill’s intent and assure us that it is not targeted at Roe v. Wade or a woman’s right to choose.”

For those who may doubt partisan records, the Republican committee report is backed by an Associated Press article that documented the 6-4 vote on the amended version of the bill.

“The Senate Health and Human Services Committee rejected a bill that declares any fetus with a beating heart or muscle movement outside the womb as ‘born alive,’” reporter Kristy Hessman’s AP story said. Her article was filed from Springfield, Ill., and dated the same day as the Republican committee report, removing any doubt she may have been reporting on any other measure. “The measure is in response to a rare abortion procedure in which labor is induced and the fetus sometimes survives, possibly for hours,” Hessman wrote. “The sponsor, Sen. Rick Winkel, R-Champaign, said the bill is modeled after a recent federal policy that defines a ‘born-alive’ infant. But critics said defining when a fetus is ‘alive’ could require doctors to provide care and might expose them to legal action if they don’t, even if there was no way the fetus could survive outside the womb. Winkel’s bill got four ‘yes’ votes and six ‘no’ votes.”

Conservative journalist David Freddoso said these documents are “absolute proof ” Obama has distorted his position on the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

“Obama said he would have voted for that bill if it had been like the federal bill when, in fact, he voted against it when it was like the federal bill,” Freddoso said. “So he’s been lying about it the whole time.”

Freddoso painstakingly details Obama’s votes and committee work against the bill and recounts the harrowing story of a former Illinois nurse named Jill Stanek, who rocked a Down syndrome baby who survived abortion until he died in her arms, in his best seller “The Case Against Barack Obama.”

Stanek later became pro-life because of this experience and used it to testify before Obama in the Illinois Senate. Stanek told me her testimony “didn’t faze him.” At the end of her testimony, according to official Illinois Senate records, Obama thanked Stanek for being “very clear and forthright” but said his concern was that Stanek had suggested “doctors really don’t care about children who are being born with a reasonable prospect of life because they are so locked into their pro-abortion views that they would watch an infant that is viable die.” He told her, “That may be your assessment, and I don’t see any evidence of that. What we are doing here is to create one more burden on a woman, and I can’t support that.”

THE COVER-UP

Researchers and journalists have had difficulty reporting this committee vote on this bill largely because of the Illinois Senate’s method of marking the bill as “held” in the Health and Human Services Committee. This led most people examining Obama’s voting record to believe the “held” marking meant the bill simply languished in committee and was never called for a vote. As previously mentioned, archived committee staff reports of the bill and an AP story show it was killed by a 6-4 party-line vote. The Senate’s online archives do not show those details.

Furthermore, when Obama’s BAIPA voting record is discussed, commentators often refer to full floor votes on the bill, not his vote on the amended bill as committee chairman. Conveniently enough, the floor votes are the only votes Obama has openly discussed.

History shows Obama voted on different versions of BAIPA at three different times—including the time as committee chairman—as an Illinois state senator. The first two times Obama voted on the bill, it did not contain the neutrality clause.

On the very first vote, he voted “present” in accordance to a strategy Planned Parenthood takes credit for orchestrating. “We worked on the ‘present’ vote strategy with Obama” Pam Sutherland, chief lobbyist of the Illinois branch of Planned Parenthood told Washington Post “fact checker” Michael Dobbs earlier this year. Sutherland said Obama would have preferred to vote “no,” but she pressured him to vote “present” because other liberal senators “were worried about direct-mail pieces against them. The more senators voted present, the harder it was to mount an issues campaign against the senator.”

The second time BAIPA came up for a floor vote, he voted “no” because, according to Obama, “it would essentially bar abortions.”

In a speech delivered on the Illinois state Senate floor before that second vote, Obama said: “Whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the Equal Protection Clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a child, a 9-month-old child, that was delivered to term. That determination then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place. I mean, it, it would essentially bar abortions, because the Equal Protection Clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an anti-abortion statute.”

Obama mentioned his votes against BAIPA in his best-selling book “Audacity of Hope.” The way Obama describes it, the reader is led to believe Obama never voted on a “neutral” version of the bill. On page 132 of the book, Obama wrote he expected the GOP to attack him during his 2004 race for the U.S. Senate because of his opposition to “a bill sponsored by anti-abortion activists” that “extended ‘personhood’ to pre-viable fetuses, thereby effectively overturning Roe v. Wade.”

He lamented the fact “I was said to have ‘voted to deny life-saving treatment to babies born alive.’”

COUNTER ATTACKS

Not only has Obama distorted his record, but his campaign has also viciously tried to discredit critics who accurately described Obama’s votes in the Illinois State Senate on abortion.

Last June, CNN aired a segment about Obama’s abortion votes in Illinois. Conservative radio host and CNN contributor Bill Bennett said: “The 2003 bill had exactly the same language as the federal bill, and Barack Obama voted against it. This [bill] was not about Roe v. Wade, this was not about abortion, it was about protecting these babies when they are alive, after seven months, five months, six months, whether it be an abortion or through birth or through any other means. Barack Obama, what he’s saying is just false. Check the record. The more you dig into it, the worse it looks. He should just say whatever he wants, something else—‘I was naïve;’ ‘I didn’t realize how close it was to the federal act.’ He cannot say it was different from the federal act: It was the same.”

The Obama campaign issued a vengeful “FactCheck” press release later that day accusing Bennett of making “inaccurate claims.”

Obama went a step further against the NRLC. When confronted by the Christian Broadcasting Network’s David Brody over his record on “born alive,” Obama called members of the NRLC “liars.”

“There was some literature put out by the National Right to Life Committee,” Brody told Obama in an August interview. “And they’re basically saying they felt like you misrepresented your position on that bill.”

Obama said the NRLC “have not been telling the truth” and launched into some of the harshest language he’s ever used against his opponents. “And I hate to say that people are lying,” he lectured, “but here’s a situation where folks are lying.” Once again, Obama pretended his committee vote against a “neutral” “born alive” bill never occurred and referred only to his previous floor votes against the unamended version of the bill.

“I have said repeatedly that I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported—which was to say—that you should provide assistance to any infant that was born—even if it was as a consequence of an induced abortion,” Obama said. “That was not the bill that was presented at the state level. What that bill also was doing was trying to undermine Roe v. Wade. By the way, we also had a bill, a law already in place in Illinois that insured life-saving treatment was given to infants.”

“It defies common sense and it defies imagination, and for people to keep on pushing this is offensive and it’s an example of the kind of politics that we have to get beyond,” Obama charged. “It’s one thing for people to disagree with me about the issue of choice; it’s another thing for people to out-and-out misrepresent my positions repeatedly, even after they know that they’re wrong. And that’s what’s been happening.”

After Brody’s interview aired, a mid-level Obama spokeswoman, Hari Sevugan, grudgingly admitted to the New York Sun that Obama had indeed voted against the bill in committee. She said Obama voted against it because he wasn’t convinced the bill would not be used to undermine abortion rights in the state of Illinois.

NRLC Legislative Director Douglas Johnson brushed off Sevugan’s explanation. He said it “is not consistent with Obama’s oft-stated excuse for opposing the state legislation, and fails to explain his four years of misrepresentation,” he said. “Nor does the Sun story indicate that the Obama campaign has issued any apology to NRLC, Bill Bennett or the others who Senator Obama and his campaign have been calling liars for saying what they now admit was the truth.”

The NRLC and other members of the pro-life movement believe Obama’s 2003 vote will surely hurt him among social conservatives and evangelicals who are considering voting for Obama in November. Family Research Council President Tony Perkins said he hopes Obama will be asked about his committee vote during the presidential debates.

“This is infanticide,” Perkins said. “There’s no question in my mind.”

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About The Author
Amanda Carpenter is the author of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton,” published in October 2006.
 
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Obama the Liar
This is really not big news. Of course Obama is a liar, as are all of the presidential candidates that came before him and will come after he is long gone.

You can analyze his position on abortion and fetal rights to the death (no pun intended) but the truth of the matter is that Obama, like his predecessor, campaigned on a platform supported by dishonesty. We don't know a damned thing about this man, and we won't until he is faced with a decision of consequence.

Let us all hope that Obama never faces anything as threatening as the Cuban Missile Crisis. Abortion and fetal rights won't matter much if the human race extinguishes itself.

ML Smith

Obama needs to read the Bible
Jesus says, "Say yes, when you mean yes, and no when you mean no, anything else comes from the evil one."

Right now, Obama is looking like the evil one to me. That is why I don't want him in the White House.

What goes on in the abortion mills is sickening, and I can't believe that people don't see the truth. Abortion is the worse sin ever committed on the face of this earth, and people are willing to vote for someone who wants to allow more of this sickness to keep happening.

I wish the liberals would see this man for what he truly is-the anti-Christ.

http://www.durarealidad.com

Obama needs to read the Bible
Jesus says, "Say yes, when you mean yes, and no when you mean no, anything else comes from the evil one."

Right now, Obama is looking like the evil one to me. That is why I don't want him in the White House.

What goes on in the abortion mills is sickening, and I can't believe that people don't see the truth. Abortion is the worse sin ever committed on the face of this earth, and people are willing to vote for someone who wants to allow more of this sickness to keep happening.

I wish the liberals would see this man for what he truly is-the anti-Christ.

http://www.durarealidad.com

It depends on how you define "infant"
In common and medical use, an abortion survivor is an "infant" and therefore allowing it to die of neglect is properly termed "infanticide."

But in legal use, only a "person" between birth and age one is properly termed an "infant." In Obama's world, no matter how much they may move or breathe on their own outside the womb, the products of an abortion are "medical waste", no more, no less.

Ergo, Obama is technically correct in saying he never voted for "infanticide." And he has a lot of precedent for his position. It's the legal argument slave states had for why killing a slave was not "murder."

Anna, your heart is in the right place
But we are NOT a "degenerate immoral nation". Many of us are raising children with true values. Just look at John and Cindy McCain. Look at the Palins. Look at so many people in this nation trying so hard to bring up their kids with good values.

America is still full of great people. You just have to look for them. We're not as loud as the jerks.

Obama is a "pre-viable candidate"
Sorry, I stole that quote from someone, and I can't remember who.

For Senator Obama to call an infant, outside its mother's body, and breathing, a "fetus" is ridiculous. That is a child. You can't be a "fetus" if you are no longer in the womb.

Even if you are pro-abortion, you shouldn't be pro-infanticide.

fishy
fishy - you seem like an extremist and kinda crazy.

why does anyone have to be way to the left or way to the right.

instead of blaming, why not solve the problems?

OBAMA lies by Jeff Schrembs
So sad that a BABY, who "survived" abortion was discarded by Health "officials", the "mother", and then by OBAMA.

He does NOT protect LIFE...only when it benefits him.

Nuff said. NOSTRADAMUSLIVES

Jayhawk of"A-Holeteria"
Pull your orkin head out of your rectum mate. we don't need no stinkin viewpoint from an idiot like you. Go foul the air at Huffy Puffy

obama-isms
How many isms define the liberal left?
Radical-ism
Social-ism
Marx-ism
Commun-ism
Totalitarian-ism
Fasc-ism
Terror-ism
Race-ism Elite-ism
Fraud-ism
Tax-ism
Gay-ism
And last but not least
OBAMABORTION-ism


Subhuman Monster...
And he has the audacity, to coin a word, to claim that he's a christian...

Oblahblah is a monster, a submhuman monster...

bobcatsmoosh
Hunter is dyslexic and hopelessly hung up on lying.

I sure enjoyed the rest of your post. You are correct about the libs' perception of Obama. He could be going home to an 800 pound female gorilla instead of Michelle, and no one would notice.

Obama chooses death for unwanted life
What is Obama thinking; he did attend a Christian church, right or wrong?? Does he think he will escape God's wrath for supporting this baby killing idea?? God is the only giver of life and He should be the only one to take it away. It seems to be that Obama is trying to be "everything" to all people. This man shows no back bone or character. How can a man with a wife, be blessed with 2 children, have this sick attidude toward a life that God has given to be loved and cherished by those who are so fortunate to have such a blessing. Did you see on utube where the babies are taken to a janitor's room to die of starvation and deprived of any kind of medical attention? He is a sick man.

Astounded - Abortion/Infanticide
How did we get here? We should not even be having this debate. Abortion from conception to birth date is murder. That we have to have a law to protect a victim of attempted murder points out in stark terms just how close to the end we have come.

Choice with respect to child bearing comes PRIOR to conception. If you don't want to bring a child into this world, that IS your choice. But NO ONE has a RIGHT to kill a child, regardless of the child's age or location (inside or outside of the womb).

What my Grandmother would say:

UNLESS you are ready to be a Momma or a Daddy,

To girls/women: Keep your knees together and your private parts covered.

To boys/me: Keep your "thing" in your pants and your mind on your studies.

She just had a "way" of getting her point across.

mik
Damn that psychopathic FDR, right on bro or sis or combination thereof.

By the way, your two choices have an abortion (I assume you mean in a clinic or something) or have a back alley abortion aren't the only choices, you understand. There is another choice.

HUNTER----By the way, no one has died at GWB's hand. You are either from another dimesion or you don't undrstand the English language.

AND he wants US to pay for them
Currently the taxpayer is not supposed to have to fund abortion (Hyde Amendment).
Obama wants that reversed. So not only will we have to stomach it, we'll have to PAY for it.

Babies May be Left Alive - Abortions

Salt Poisoning (Saline Injection):
----------------------------------
Used after 16 weeks (four months) when enough fluid has accumulated. A long needle injects a strong salt solution through the mother's abdomen into the baby's sac. The baby swallows this fluid and is poisoned by it. It also acts as a corrosive, burning off the outer layer of skin. It normally takes somewhat over an hour for the baby to die from this. Within 24 hours, labor will usually set in and the mother will give birth to a dead or dying baby. (There have been many cases of these babies being born alive. They are usually left unattended to die. However, a few have survived and later been adopted.)

Prostaglandin Chemical Abortion:
--------------------------------
This form of abortion uses chemicals developed by the Upjohn Pharmaceutical Co. which cause the uterus to contract intensely, pushing out the developing baby. The contractions are more violent than normal, natural contractions, so the unborn baby is frequently killed by them -- some have even been decapitated. Many, however, have also been born alive.

Hysterotomy or Caesarean Section:
---------------------------------
Used mainly in the last three months of pregnancy, the womb is entered by surgery through the wall of the abdomen. The technique is similar to a Caesarean delivery, except that the umbilical cord is usually cut while the baby is still in the womb, thus cutting off his oxygen supply and causing him to suffocate. Sometimes the baby is removed alive and simply left in a corner to die of neglect or exposure.




Partial-Birth Abortion and the Obama's

Five steps to a partial birth abortion:
---------------------------------------

1) Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's legs with forceps.

2) The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal.

3) The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body, except for the head.

4) The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the skull.

5) The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2004, as a candidate Barack Obama sent out a fundraising appeal against it.

"U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama's wife, Michelle, sent a fund-raising letter with the "alarming news" that 'right-wing politicians' had passed a law stopping doctors from stabbing half-born babies in the neck with scissors, suctioning out their brains and crushing their skulls. Michelle called partial-birth abortion 'a legitimate medical procedure,' and wouldn't supporters please pay $150 to attend a luncheon for her husband, who would fight against 'cynical ploy[s]' to stop it?"

Subcritical
You lost the context.

mik: Thanks for admitting...
that obama lied...

but ...

how you cannot nake up your mind about abortion is really sad..

abortion is murder ... its that simple

the Real Question Is------
Did Obama vote the way the author claims? The answer is obviously, yes.( a matter of state record)

Did Obama deny that he voted this way, again the answer is yes.

What did the amended law in question say, it's a matter of state records and irrefutable.

Add all his together and you get Obama lied.

don't try to argue or make a point with these left wing zealots. If you had a tape of Obama raping babies on the Capitol steps the lefties either would not care or they would justify his actions.

There is only one thing the lefties will not forgive, being a Republican. All else is justified or unimportant.

This hooligan lies
about everything especially his religion.

Which Ticket cares about YOUR family
RE:"Obama has repeatedly claimed he would have voted for Illinois’ version of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act (BAIPA) had it included language to protect abortion rights guaranteed by Roe v. Wade, as the federal version of the bill did,..."

Once again they let Obama get away with double speak... as I read this what he is really saying is if the "Born Alives" have to die to preserve the right to kill the unborn its worth it to him to get the right to choose votes.
FYI I would support the 3 exceptions and maybe even a few others but this is really disgusting
.....
For contrast just think about this... Cindy and John McCain not only support special needs children with their time and money but have adopted them.

Sarah Palin used her "right to choose" to give life to special needs child and pledges to be an advocate for all of them.

Which ticket do you think will really care about your family?

mccain AND obama lie
face the facts. both of them lie. both of them lie a lot. they are politicians. to accuse one and not the other makes you a liar too.

of course nobody wants to have babies die (unless you're a pyschopath). and nobody wants to go to another country and kill people (no matter what the reason, unless you're a pyschopath).

both sides can argue 'til their face turns blue, and both sides will come out right and wrong.

god gave us free will and we will have to live with our choices.

I am neither dem or repub, but looking at both sides of abortion, I don't think I can ever make a decision to be on one side or the other. abort the baby or have the mother do a back alley abortion and potentially harm herself? I can't answer this question. and unless god came down to anyone here and gives them an answer, then you can state your thoughts, but I don't think you can shove down someone's throat what YOU think is right. unless you're god.

and war- of course we want to protect our country and many brave men and women choose to go to war to protect us. that's very honorable. on the other end, in war, people will die. what makes our choice to kill someone right? and it's the nature of war that sometimes innocent civilians die? who has the right to make that choice?

no president will EVER be right in making these 2 decisions. alas, they are only human. they are not god. they will make mistakes. and they too, will have to live with their choices.


Tim in TX (11:39pm)
I know it's a copy, but it's not a photocopy of the original. It's just a certification from the county. Most people don't have originals of their own birth certificates. I think I have a copy of mine around here somewhere, from when I applied for a passport several years back.

Hawaii is not challenging it, and, like you said, surely someone could have gone into the records room and checked. But at this point, I no longer trust anything said or "certified" by any Democrat, and just as surely, someone could have gone into the records room and inserted an "original".

Seeing the original would dispel this concern once and for all, and who could object to that? It's not going to tell us anything different than what's on the one they've shown us, right?

I've stayed off the birth certificate bandwagon, but the questions I'm seeing raised about the hospital in Kenya, something else about an Indonesian passport, and the sealing of his college records are starting to give me a very bad feeling. The answer so far from people I know to be casual liars is "no, there's nothing to it". Fine, then prove it, and we can all move on about our business.

Stonewalling by this lot is unbecoming, though no longer unexpected.


Taft #123
I am certain the very end language of the following will help illustrate what I am saying:

"Sec. 6. (1) (a) Any physician who intentionally performs an abortion when, in his medical judgment based on the particular facts of the case before him, there is a reasonable likelihood of sustained survival of the fetus outside the womb, with or without artificial support, shall utilize that method of abortion which, of those he knows to be available, is in his medical judgment most likely to preserve the life and health of the fetus."

Obama is caught here trying to change the law focus from the survival of the fetus to the will of the mother. His arguments reveal this all too well. And lack of argument of the issue he uses to justify this since it became a public issue. Obama has mastered misdirection.

Taaft #123
" It is the further intention of the General Assembly to assure and protect the woman's health and the integrity of the woman's decision whether or not to continue to bear a child, to protect the valid and compelling state interest in the infant and unborn child, to assure the integrity of marital and familial relations and the rights and interests of persons who participate in such relations, and to gather data for establishing criteria for medical decisions. The General Assembly finds as fact, upon hearings and public disclosures, that these rights and interests are not secure in the economic and social context in which abortion is presently performed.


The predisposition of the act is the protection of life, and recognition of the fetus from the point of conception. Obama was merely trying to move the act farther from it's original intents and purposes by assuring the definitions weren't as broad.

In this way he is and was against, what Martin Luther King's niece calls "the Civil Rights of the Unborn."

So though the language is in the 1975 act, the issue to Obama is how the definitions have not been modified to assure a loosening of the rules. Otherwise Senator Obama would have stated the protection already on the law books was sufficient in the first instance. Not later when it's politically expedient, as the earlier use in his rise to debate would have rendered this a non issue in the first instance.

Taft #123
Keep in mind the Introduction to this 1975 Act:

"Sec. 1. It is the intention of the General Assembly of the State of Illinois to reasonably regulate abortion in conformance with the decisions of the United States Supreme Court of January 22, 1973. Without in any way restricting the right of privacy of a woman or the right of a woman to an abortion under those decisions, the General Assembly of the State of Illinois do solemnly declare and find in reaffirmation of the longstanding policy of this State, that the unborn child is a human being from the time of conception and is, therefore, a legal person for purposes of the unborn child's right to life and is entitled to the right to life from conception under the laws and Constitution of this State. Further, the General Assembly finds and declares that longstanding policy of this State to protect the right to life of the unborn child from conception by prohibiting abortion unless necessary to preserve the life of the mother is impermissible only because of the decisions of the United States Supreme Court and that, therefore, if those decisions of the United States Supreme Court are ever reversed or modified or the United States Constitution is amended to allow protection of the unborn then the former policy of this State to prohibit abortions unless necessary for the preservation of the mother's life shall be reinstated.
"

Continued again....

Taft #123
Though the bill provides the language you say, the trouble wasn't he existing law but the amendment.

Senator obama used the term "previable" in his debate over the matter, which I typed into my blog here http://toddy.blogtownhall.com/default.aspx .

His opening argument covers the point of viability by "previable," and also discusses and issue with equal treatment to a "nine month old" in the context of constitutionality. At no time did he bring up any existing law, and this would have been his opportunity.

Per the 1975 law:

"(1) 'Viability' means that stage of fetal development when, in the medical judgment of the attending physician based on the particular facts of the case before him, there is a reasonable likelihood of sustained survival of the fetus outside the womb, with or without artificial support."

"(8) "Born alive", "live born", and "live birth", when applied to an individual organism of the species homo sapiens, each mean he or she was completely expelled or extracted from his or her mother and after such separation breathed or showed evidence of any of the following: beating of the heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, irrespective of the duration of pregnancy and whether or not the umbilical cord has been cut or the placenta is attached."

The trouble Senator Obama had is that he felt any amendment should give less protection that is already there. You'll not in his argument he said "previable child, or fetus, however you want to describe it."

Senator Obama, known now for his 130 "present" votes, commits at the end of these remarks "And as a consequence, I'll be voting Present."

Continued in next comment....




Retired Geek good job!
Always there with the hard core proof, not just lame brained accusations. Nice to see the letter from Mad Michelle Obama included, no wonder they have kept her under lock and key. I was reading some of her college thesis tonight, what was released to Politico, of course. She is more dangerous than he is, fatally dangerous.

Muslins do not belive in abortion....
Think about this: Muslins do not believe in abortion ...not because they are Pro-Life...
but because it is all about increasing the population of the Muslin faith..in order to take over the world...America considerfs abortion a rightful choice !!!
Is it really surprising that BHO is the most liberal Senator...we as a society have made it acceptable / a choice for a mother to willingly kill her own baby ...over four thousand babies killed each day ....many more than 9-11....we were all horrified however if America doesn't wake up we will allow BHO to use infanticide to wipe out the youth of our nation ...it starts with the most vulnerable , our babies...our elderly will be even easier...Stand Up, Stand Up and fight for Life , Fight for America ...
God have Mercy on our Nation ..

birth certificate
What is the problem with the birth certificate? Of course it is a copy. No one said it wasn’t. The state official in Hawaii has acknowledged and confirmed his office sent the copy on file. Many people don’t have the original and rely on obtaining a copy. The state of Hawaii is not challenging the certificate. I think they would know what their own certificate looks like. And at this point, I think someone has gone down into the records room and made sure it was correct.

pay attention
There is already a law in place to prevent this, it was a possible circumvention

To Hunter
Hunter asks: "What about the 1000's or hundred thousands who have died at Bush's hand, with John McCain's blessing?"
Hunter, this is bad. Very bad. But it does not make Obama's case better, cleaner or more humane.

Taft, give it up
Mac wanted to calm an angry crowd, and he has been a fellow sen. with the Big O, so he naturally, as a gentleman, did not want cat-calling and jeering at his campaign stop.

But O is not a decent person: he gave $800,000 of campaign money to ACORN, trained with them, was a lawyer for them,and now says he had very little association with them.

He tells the same story about spending two decades listening to Rev. Writght G*dd*mn Amedrica, call it Amnerikkkka, blame AIDS on America, and say all white people are devils. O's own books repeatedly report how he dislikes white people and whatever a white person might propose, he would oppose.

He says he barely knew Ayers and Dohrn altho' the relationship also goes back 20 years. He doesn't really know Tony Rezko although he only bought his house through Rezko's help.

If nothing else, he has no loyalty or love for anyone he's known for decades, even people he considered advisers and mentors in his books.

Of that alone, he is unfit for president, as a president is not just a mushroom who has no background or relationships or knowledge, but needs life-long support and affection from friends and co-workers. The Big O has none of those traits. He is a cartoon cutout of a person.

His own minister that O threw under a bus in March to disavow him now claims O just says anything he thinks will get him elected. Nothing about him can be believed. And if you believe him, you have serious problems of logic and rationality.

getting to the birth thing late
Two birth issues are hanging around Barry's neck.

(1) A baby born alive is a *baby*, not a "pre-viable fetus" even if his mother wanted to kill him in the womb: once he is born, he is a person. Anyone who thinks that you can just set them aside without medical care and let them die is an accessory to infanticide, a monster, and unfit for the presidency.

(2) I just this evening saw the short film, "The October Surprise", in which former Pennsylvania deputy attorney-general Philip J. Berg, a Democrat, states his case. I have also just this evening seen what is purported to be Obama's Oahu County birth certificate.

Addressing the latter first, the certificate is obviously a replacement copy, complete with a sans-serif typeface that was obviously produced on a computer. This is not to say that it is a forgery, but then neither is it the original, and thus it proves nothing.

As to the former, Berg's allegations are simple and should be easy to refute. It seems, though, that Berg's case is on hold while the judge determines not the merits of the case, but whether Berg himself has standing to sue.

Regardless of the outcome, I think that we can all agree that, if true, this would be very important and ought to be settled before ballots are cast. What are they waiting for? Can you imagine the chaos if Berg's charge were to be proven true only after Obama were to win the election?

On Drudge, the liberal line is now
abortion, Ayers, gun control, Barry's *missing* birth certificate, his ties to ACORN, his minimal record of any kind are all *distractions* from the ISSUES.

And what are the issues? What Dems. say they are.

Subcritical simply refute these facts

"The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act."
Barack Obama, July, 2008 Speech at Planned Parenthood Conference

What is FOCA or Freedom of Choice Act?

The Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) is legislation Obama has co-sponsored along with 18 other senators that would annihilate every single state law limiting or regulating abortion, including the federal ban on partial birth abortion and the Federal BAIPA law.

Besides making abortion on demand a 'fundamental right' throughout the United States, FOCA would effectively nullify informed consent laws, waiting periods, health safety regulations for abortion clinics, etc.

Furthermore, medical professionals and institutions that refused abortions also would lose legal protections. FOCA would expose individuals, organizations, and governments - including federal, state, and local government agencies - to costly civil actions for purported violations of the act.
---------------------------------------------


Barack Obama is against Parental notification.
----------------------------------------------
Transporting Minors Across State Lines to Obtain Abortions While serving in the United States Senate, Obama voted against the Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act (S.403), a bill designed to prevent minors from being taken across state lines without the consent of the parents to have an abortion in circumvention of the laws of 45 states which require parental consent or notification in order for a minor to have an abortion.

-Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act (S.403); vote number 2006-216 on July 25, 2006


Subcritical comment on this?

http://www.blackgenocide.org/home.html

"...The purpose of this website is to reveal the disproportionate number of black babies exterminated by the abortion industry in America.

Although black women constitute only 6% of the population, they comprise 36% of the abortion industry’s clientele.

The leading abortion providers have chosen to exploit blacks by locating 94% of their abortuaries in urban neighborhoods with high black populations.

This high rate of abortion has decimated the black family and destroyed black neighborhoods to the detriment of society at large.

1,452 African-American children are killed each day by the heinous act of abortion.

3 out of 5 pregnant African-American women will abort their child.

Since 1973 there has been over 13 million Black children killed and their precious mothers victimized by the U.S. abortion industry..."

"...With 1/3 of all abortions performed on Black women, the abortion industry has received over 4,000,000,000 (yes, billion) dollars from the Black community..."

By Rev. Clenard H. Childress Jr.,
March 5, 2008
http://www.blackgenocide.org/obama.html




Obama accused of Black Genocide 2

"...For those of you that don't know, Barack Obama became a "minister" of Planned Parenthood a long time ago. He's so good at carrying out their racist, murderous, agenda against Afro-Americans and society at large, they gave him a 100% score on his voting record.

Planned Parenthood is following the strategy of their racist founder, Margaret Sanger, to the letter. Planed Parenthood is saying, “We have our poster boy!

Get him out in front as a lure for their women and men. Get them into our abortion clinics and dismember their children by the millions!”

You say absurd? No Way!

Planned Parenthood’s Valentine cards were sent out to hundreds of thousands of young people in the nation. Whose face is plainly seen waving to them with a big smile? Whose endorsement is given to this racist and calloused organization? Who is used to lure children to give credibility to its hideous plot? Barack Obama, that's who!..."

By Rev. Clenard H. Childress Jr.,
March 5, 2008
http://www.blackgenocide.org/obama.html

Obama accused of Black Genocide

"Pam Sutherland ... of ... Illinois Planned Parenthood ... told ABC News, "We worked with him specifically on his strategy. The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time. They loved to hold votes on 'partial birth' and 'born alive.' They put these bills out all the time because they wanted to pigeonhole Democrats. ..."

"Let me interpret. We, Planned Parenthood, told him what to say, and how to say it, so we could continue to kill infants; babies, just a few inches from birth, and those completely out of the womb that we missed! Our "colored minister" was well prepared by Planned Parenthood.

Partial Birth abortion -- which I will not describe here -- but know that 80% of Americans don't want this barbaric act practiced in this country – Barack Obama voted to keep legal!

The Born Alive Victims Act is a law to protect a child that was born alive after a botched abortion; a law that would require that the child would receive medical assistance.

Barack Obama voted against it! Yes. Barack Obama, with an "engaging personality" is being used by the leading abortion provider in the United States to promote and execute infanticide of predominately minority babies!"

By Rev. Clenard H. Childress Jr.,
March 5, 2008
http://www.blackgenocide.org/obama.html


Subcritical
You are slandering a great man. He spends many hours trying to warn people like you of the dangers of this man. If you don't like the message,don't blame the messenger,prove him wrong. Just saying it does not make it true.

RG has documentation of everything he posts. Very few are so thorough and true to what he writes.You owe him an apology. If he doesn't get it,you are not a decent person.

Michelle Obama - Partial Birth Abortion

From: email-list@obamaforillinois.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 7:41 AM
Subject: A Message from Michelle Obama

"February 17, 2004

Dear Friends:

We have all been concerned lately with the rise of conservatism in this country, especially as it relates to women.

You've read the alarming news about the Justice Department's request for hospitals to turn over the private medical records of dozens of patients.

This cynical ploy is designed to intimidate a group of physicians and force them to drop their lawsuit seeking to have the so-called partial birth abortion ban ruled unconstitutional.

The fact remains, with no provision to protect the health of the mother, this ban on a legitimate medical procedure is clearly unconstitutional and must be overturned.

Attorney General Ashcroft and president bush believe so zealously in their cause that the privacy rights of patients are under assault.

They believe we have no federal right to privacy when it concerns our medical histories.

On March 16th, we have a chance to nominate a candidate who will be tireless in the fight to protect women.

It isn't simply about the right to choose, or privacy rights. It is about pay equity, about ending domestic violence, promoting health care around the world, and letting doctors decide treatment options, not federal judges..."

Michelle Obama

Taft
I have been going to quite a few, because I enjoy having a good argument with facts. The site I was kicked off was decsribed to me by a Democrat fellow as "centrist", so I hoped to hear different views through intelligent discussions. Was I wrong!

Subcritical simply refute these facts

Pam Sutherland is the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council. She says Obama voted "present" at least seven times to provide cover to other abortion-rights supporters on such bills as the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act."

"He came to me and said: 'My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women,'" said Sutherland in recounting her conversation with Obama. "A 'present' vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted."

The Wall Street Journal reported, some of the specific abortion votes in question include two occasions in 1997 (HB 382 and SB 230) when he voted "present" on bills which would have prohibited a procedure referred to by its critics as "partial-birth abortion." In 2001, he voted "present" on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted "present" on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if he or she survived a failed abortion.


Subcritical
You sound as a reasonable person, and naive at the same time...Just see the facts: BHO's association with terrorist Ayers, with racist Wright , his involvement with ACORN, the fact that he has an army of lawyers intimidating NRA for the ads which provided his own quotations, BHO’s voting records – he is the most liberal among liberals. What really did it for me personally when I heard his wife’s speech about first time being proud of this country. First time?! This is the best and greatest country in the world and she should be thankful for being born here! I am sure he shares the same views, as Mrs. Obama and Wright, his mentor and friend for 20 years. BHO has too many skeletons in the closet, which he hides very well having the media on his side.
I understand that you a Democrat, and I bet you were counting on voting for Hillary. This election is not a popularity contest, but is about this country’s future. I do not know your background, but probably you were born here. I was not as lucky as you, my friend, and I can spot a commie from far away. He sounds as a socialists and Marxist - yes he says nice things which people want to hear, but believe me he will not do any good to this country with his views.


Subcritical you have a simple task

Facts are NOT refuted by opinion.

You are entitled to your own opinion as I am, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

Simply present facts that refute mine.

I know you and Taft do not like any facts that leave Barack Obama in a bad light and I can understand that.

Facing reality is a tough thing to do and many cannot do that.

Facts, reason and logic produce reality - feelings, intuition and ideology present an alternate reality.

Ridicule and ad hominem attacks do not refute the ideas posited, but rather give credence to those ideas, because the attackers have NO answers or refutations.

THE TIME FOR TALKING IS OVER...
"Live Free Or Die ...

Death Is Not The Worst of Evils."

SO SAID GENERAL JOHN STARK

Retired Geek
Did you know that Barack Obama has been married to the same woman his whole life?

That he raised two girls?

That he came from nothing and went to law school and made his life by his own accountablilty?

Do you know that you are misconstruing the truth and lying to people about the real record of NARAL and Barack Obama?

That you are accusing someone of something before you know the whole truth?

Think about it. What you are doing is wrong and a very bad thing. You are slandering a man that came from nothing and built himself up to be a family man dedicated to his wife and family. A man that studied Constitutional Law and someone who knows more about it than any one of us.

The slandering of Obama should leave any man and woman of any moral standing in shame.

The disgusting, lying neocond agenda has so far called Obama a:

Terrorist

Communist

Fascist

Muslim (not that there should be anything wrong with that if he were.)

and now.......da Da!...a BABY Killer!

What is going to be next? I can only imagine!

It is disgusting to see the neo con agenda in action. They slowly misinform, distort and try to destroy a man that epitomizes the American dream. Obama came from nothing and made himself successful. He never asked for a handout. He only asked for a chance.

Shame on the exteme right. They are dirty and they are lying to good Republican people.

Get out from under the BS and seek the truth, man.

Simple
Is it, or is it not against the law in Illinois to let a baby born alive to die?

The police sure seem to have that idea in their heads. Tell them a baby was left to die, and you better be telling the truth because they will investigate.

Rita
I don't know what blogs you find, but all the ones I frequent allow all opinions, if, as this blogs asks as well, one is respectful and doesn't attack other posters.

http://talk.blogtownhall.com/2008/09/10/townhall_moderation _policy.thtml

Obama Admits Lying

"Obama's decision to sabotage the Illinois Born Alive Infant Protection Act (BAIPA) has repeatedly come back from the grave to haunt his campaign. Pro-life advocates, and National Right to Life, have hounded Obama over his "no" vote to BAIPA while a state senator in 2003.

Brody asked Obama to respond to questions over why he voted "no" to BAIPA, since Obama voted down the Illinois version, which was exactly identical to a federal bill passed unanimously by the US Senate. Obama became visibly irritated and accused NRTL of "lying" about his record.

"They have not been telling the truth," Mr. Obama said. "And I hate to say that people are lying, but here's a situation where folks are lying."

However, twenty-four hours later, the Obama campaign made an about-face and admitted that Obama, not NRTL, had "misrepresented" his own position, which his critics have charged defies "commonsense" and "imagination."

The Obama campaign admitted to the New York Sun that Obama misrepresented his position when he told CBN that the federal version he says he supports, "was not the bill that was presented at the state level."

http://geekonobama.blogtownhall.com/2008/09/02/obama_caught _red-handed_in_abortion_lie.thtml

New York Times on Obama lie

New York Times
"The statute Congress passed in 2002 and the one the Illinois committee rejected a year later are virtually identical.

Both say, for example, that “the words ‘person,’ ‘human being,’ ‘child’ and ‘individual’ shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development,” regardless of whether that birth “occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section or induced abortion.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/us/politics/20checkpoint. html?ref=politics

To Lefties: Wake Up!
To all lefties blogging on this site – enjoy your freedom of speech and expression (while you still have it). I have been posting facts and points of view different from lefties on one of your sites, and was blacklisted the next day. None of my posts are showing on the site. The site says that you blog because you tire of the lies. At the same time, they filter posts and get rid of those which do not bash Bush and McCain, who do not call Sarah Palin dirty names, and do not curse…. The f-word is the most popular form of expression on your sites, by the way...
Below is my last post on this site from 30 minutes ago: “To Sphy: for fair and balanced news go to Fox News”... It does not show either….
A lesson for you, comrades socialists: this is how it is being done in the socialists society (I know, I lived there), and by your fellows lefties. They have big mouths, they do not have class, and shut people up who express other views but theirs, including plain facts.
Think again: BHO with a big government and wealth distribution (how about promising tax cuts to 95% Americans while 40% do not pay taxes, which is another way to increase welfare pay outs) , and suppression of freedoms and liberties, OR McCain…..Since you are on this site, it means you are thinking and enjoying intelligent discussions, unlike specimens on the libs sites who just need a place to express their animal hate for all and everything associated with Republicans …Think, please….

Hey Rich D
Did Reagan repent while he had Alzheimers? Or before?

If before, he probably didn't remember, so it doesn't really matter.

What do you think?

Isn't repenting a condition?

Obama Legacy - Babies Dying in Terror

Babies Crying in Terror
The 'Born Alive' baby who has known the closest contact with another human any human can experience - the baby has been inside another human for months.

The baby has kicked, stretched and some even suck their thumbs. Every need has been met by its human host - shelter, nourishment and safety.

Suddenly one day the baby is attacked with chemicals and poisons.

The baby enters a world bent on death and destruction towards its life.

The baby has never seen a butterfly, puppy, pretty colors or things all babies enjoy or had any human say I love you.

The baby enters the world in excruciating pain and the best trained Medical experts in the world refuse the baby any aid - in a hospital - where all facilities are available and the Doctors have sworn to protect all human life - except his.

The baby is thrown on a cold table and left to die in some hidden place.

The baby struggles to breathe because a human is born with the human will to survive. The baby cries in terror and sobs for help - that never comes - no one cares.

The innocent baby tries to live with every breath and dies alone, abandoned like a used kleenex, never having experienced anything but pain, rejection and hatred.

When the baby finally dies a death of torture and the ultimate rejection any human can receive, it is such a worthless human it doesn't even have a 'Death Certificate' issued that it ever existed.

For a few minutes, hours or days, that baby WAS an American Citizen, that should have received all of the 'Rights and Protections' under law, that any other American Citizen should have.

Michelle and Barack Obama and most Democrats, have done everything humanly possible, to make sure this baby does NOT even receive any pain medication.

This will be the Obama legacy.

Rich
This Fredeosso is a bozo.

"Summary: In The Case Against Barack Obama, David Freddoso misrepresents findings by the Illinois state government to claim that a statement by Sen. Barack Obama explaining his opposition to a bill that amended the Illinois Abortion Law of 1975 was "not true." Obama asserted that "measures mandat[ing] lifesaving measures for premature babies" were "already the law" in Illinois.


Freddoso falsely asserts that the Illinois Department of Public Health and a letter from the Illinois attorney general's office refute Obama's statement. THEY DID NOT ; indeed, a reported statement by the Public Health Department supports it."

Reason for BAIPA

According to Abortionist Doctors, an abortion is supposed to result in medical waste. When a tumor is removed e.g. there still may be living cells for some period of time.

The issue with 'Babies Born Alive' is that some survive the abortion. Abortionist Doctors generally agree that upwards to 100 abortions a year result in babies that not only survive but live minutes, hours or days.

These babies were being treated as medical waste and left to die or starve, much like a tumor.

The babies are in excruciating pain, yet NO medical aid is given them, as none would be given to a tumor.

My contention is that when a baby is born and separated from its mother, living on its own, that baby is an American Citizen and should be granted the rights and protections of any other American Citizen.

The BAIPA (Born Alive Infant Protection Act) was introduced primarily to protect these babies and to NOT treat them as medical waste.

I am advocating that these babies receive medical aid - at least pain medicine - and a death certificate to at least show they were once an American Citizen.

Barack Obama has remained steadfast in his refusal to NOT allow any aid be given to these babies. This to me, is a matter of human rights.

Why Barack Obama is so against aid to these babies - your guess is as good as mine.

When Obama made a public statement that those accusing him of 'No Aid to Babies Born Alive' were lying - Obama later retracted that statement and said he had mis-represented the truth about his position (only after overwhelming evidence that he was lying was presented to him).

Hey Patricia:
You said, Talking to a pro-abortionist is like talking to a terrorist:

NO MORALS!!!!!!

NO TRUTHS!!!!!!

NO HEARTS!!!!!!"

No Morals? Is that what John McCain did when he left his rightful wife for Cindy?

No Truths? The Keating 5 ring a bell?

No Hearts? George Bush invaded a sovereign nation, killing tens of thousands while he lied to the American public about Weapons of Mass Destruction?


Patricia
More on Gianna Jessen

"Jessen's website states that the attempted abortion took place in the "third trimester." The Illinois Abortion Law of 1975, as it existed when the legislation was being considered, requires that except in cases involving medical emergencies, when a doctor performed an abortion on a viable fetus, a second doctor was required to be in attendance during the procedure and, "if a child is born alive," that doctor "shall exercise the same degree of professional skill, care and diligence to preserve the life and health of the child as would be required of a physician providing immediate medical care to a child born alive in the course of a pregnancy termination which was not an abortion." Failure to provide such care constituted a felony."

Remember, Reagan repented. Will you?
.


Abortion
Every abortion that was legal under President Carter is legal today. Regardless of whom is elected president, every abortion that is legal today will remain legal in 2012. This issue is used to by Republicans to gain votes (and thus gain power). Remember, Ronald Reagan signed pro-choice legislation when he was Governor of California.

Patricia
I remember that coming up and looking it up. It wasn't true, that Obama's opinions or actions would have had a difference in her situation.

Taft - because it's true.
Try these:

http://townhall.com/blog/g/cd6a2319-51a1-4183-9b01-1d70a253 a162

http://townhall.com/columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/10/14/o bamas_infanticide_lie

google "FactCheck misleads", "factcheck lies" and "obama lies abortion" if you dare. The Annenberg Foundation funds it, but that's not why we should believe or disbelieve it. It is not always accurate.

So change the subject. Obama lied when he said the federal and state laws were different. Heck, read the laws yourself and do you own fact checking. Even NARAL ducked.

Lying has never been above Obama's pay grade.

TAFT
STAND UP AND BE A MAN!!! FACE THE REAL FACTS!!

THE WOMAN THAT WAS A BABY ABORTED AND LEFT FOR DEAD WAS ON TV AND ALAN HOLMES WHO IS A DEMOCRAT, HAD RESEARCHED HER BACKGROUND AND KNEW SHE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH!!

THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!!! YOUR OBAMA KEEPS IT LEGAL!!

IT'S YOUR IGNORANCE THAT IS SHOWING HERE BY YOUR LIES IN DENYING THE TRUTH AND NOT FACING WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG.

I AM A CHRISTIAN AND I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, BECAUSE WHETHER YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IT OR NOT YOU HAVE A SOUL ALSO.

I JUST HOPE YOU CHANGE YOUR LIFE BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

Rich
Why would I believe something this Peter Smith wrote? who is he and is he someone I could trust to be honest? On issues like this, its best to go to factcheck and get unbiased opinions.

Taft, do we have do you research?
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/aug/08081808.html

Patricia
Do unto others, remember? No babies died, it is against the law to let live born babies die. It always has been. A wacky nurse, Stanek or something, made up stories to the police about live babies dying, and the police set off immediately to investigate a crime. They looked for evidence, they interviewed hospital staff and came up empty, but found the nurse is off balance and tells people the Chinese eat their babies.

You really shouldn't lie or be willfully ignorant, not that is if you want to be a good christian.

Pro-abortionist!!!!!

Talking to a pro-abortionist is like talking to a terrorist:

NO MORALS!!!!!!

NO TRUTHS!!!!!!

NO HEARTS!!!!!!

Taft: FOR GOD...
DETESTS hands that are shed innocent blood...(Prov. 6:16-19)

HELL AWAITS YOU TAFT UNLESS ...

YOU REPENT AND ASK GOD TO FORGIVE YOU FOR YOUR PART IN THE SHEDDING OF THE INNOCENT BLOOD OF THE UNBORN... THE LATE TERM ... AND THE BORN ALIVE ...

THAT ARE KILLED ON A DAILY BASIS IN OUR NATION...

HELL IS FOR ETERNITY TAFT ...

THERE IS NO WAY OUT ... NONE...

REPENT NOW ...

THE TIME IS AT HAND WHEN ALL SHALL BE JUDGED BY GOD THE ALMIGHTY...

Rowly
I'm a proud democrat and I never do what just feels good. There are clear lines of right and wrong and one must aspire, as well as they are possible to be moral. Why is torturing people such an important plank on the RW side? McCain started out against it, and had to backslide had approve it to appease his base. It doesn't even work. And, why don't the base care about what we did to Iraq? Or what is going on in the West Bank? I don't understand it at all.

Vote McCain/Palin
Rowly, thats why the hate Conservs and GOD and The Bible
They would have to accept responsibilty for their actions and the Dems have Never Done that and Never Will!

VOTE MCCAIN/PALIN

Subject: Vote Mccain/Palin
We Don't Believe in Socialism=Marxism and want to keep our paychecks
Repubs and Conservs--Get Out and Vote!
Don't let Obamas-Acorns Mickey Vote Trump Yours!
Mccain/Palin 08

You Obama Suppporters Put Your Checks in the Mail For Your Tax Hikes

Deadbeats Make Sure You Have Your Address Updated So You Can Get Your Obama Welfare Check!

If Alla Ya Libs Are Good Little Puppets, Maybe, Just Maybe Obama and Farrakhan will let you go for
A spin in the Mohammed Spaceship! Up Up and Away! LOL

LETTING A LITTLE BAY DIE???
DO YOU REALLY HAVE NO HEART FOR THE LITTLE ONES THAT JESUS SAID "WOULD BE THE GREATEST IN HEAVEN???"

THERE WAS A LADY ON HANNITY AND HOLMES A WHILE BACK WHO HAD BEEN ABORTED AND WAS ORDERED TO BE PUT IN A DARK CLOSET TO DIE. BUT A NURSE CALLED AN AMBULANCE, SHE WAS TAKEN TO A HOSPITAL AND IS GROWN TODAY.

SHE WANTED TO KNOW WHERE WAS HER CONSTITIONAL RIGHTS WHEN SHE WAS BORNED ALIVE AND ORDERED TO LET DIE???

SHE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE MOTHER WHO TRIED TO KILL HER BUT IS GRATEFUL FOR THE KIND HEARTED NURSE WHO SAVED HER LIFE!!!

I SUPPOSED OBAMA FEELS SOMEONE SHOULD STILL KILL HER BECAUSE THE MOTHER DIDN'T WANT HER????

IT'S SHAMEFUL THAT WE EVEN LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT HAS TO DEBATE THESE MURDERS!!!

Being A Democrat
It must give a person a lot of freedom being a Democrat. There are no limits. Just whatever makes you feel good.

The truth doesn't matter. Morals don't matter. Nothing matters to them . Not even a life.

OBAMA LIED BABIES DIED !
B.HUSSEIN,IS UN-AMERICAN !WAKE UP AMERICA! WAKE UP YOUNG PEOPLE!JUST SAY NO AT THE POLS TO OBAMA-MAN.!!!!!!

Patricia
Great point. Who here would like lies told about them?

Carpenter
Post's like US PAT are what your after, it may get your side some votes, and for people like you that's the only important thing. It mostly is working against the republicans though, In Illinois when Keyes first tried this scheme, Obama won by over 70%. People don't like scum or their lies, its the American spirit.

A well analyzed summary
"Obama's critics are free to speculate on his motives for voting against the bills, and postulate a lack of concern for babies' welfare. But his stated reasons for opposing "born-alive" bills have to do with preserving abortion rights, a position he is known to support and has never hidden."

"the least of my children"
Remember in the Bible the real Messianh, Jesus Christ our Lord said"

WHATEVER YOU DO TO THE LEAST OF MY CHILDREN, YOU TO ME ALSO"

US Patriot
Why do you say that? Obama is a nice guy and very decent, even McCain had to admit it. Do you know who McCain's closest political ally is, Joe, bomb Iran as fast as we can, Looserman, who is more pro choice than Obama.

OBAMA IS A BABY KILLER...
AND ANYONE WHO VOTES FOR HIM IS A BABY KILLER BY ASSOCIATION...

BECAUSE IT DOES MATTER WHO YOUR "NEIGHBORS" ARE ...

WHO YOU HANG WITH... WHO YOU VOTE FOR...

VOTE FOR OBAMA AND YOU ARE A BABY-KILLER!

Colorado Mike
What lie did Obama say about Aryes, Wright, or Rezko?

Yvonne - you gave me an idea!
Bush Lied, People Died, right?

So, we have demonstrated that a vote is a dangerous weapon.

Therefore, let's license all voters, requiring them to go to training and safety classes, and issue photo IDs to all potential voters before they can use their concealed votes!

connecting the dots
If you look at all of his associations and what they believe you will see there is a thread that ties them all together, it is there believe to remake America. The information is out there and it is real easy to find. Just type in the peoples names that he claims are just somebody he knows, lives in his neighbothood or worked on a committee with the person. I see now why the Dem's don't want voter ID they probably would never win an election again, and Acorn would be out of work.

The fact that mario and hunter
had to change the subject is proof enough that there is no defense of obama's actions in this issue.
I'm sure he thought he was being a clever lawyer at the time, by being so sharp as to see that if you let such a baby live, some riht winger might define it as a "person".
Clever lawyering.
Now he has to lie and cover it up.

More of the same
It is amazing that such a short public record is filled with so many lies. Obama lied about BAIPA, he lied about Bill Ayers, he lied about Reverend Wright, he lied about getting favors for Rezko, and he lied about ACORN. And those are just the ones we've caught, with almost no help from the mainstream media.

He's Not The Obama I knew.....
......that is what many naive voters will be saying if Hussein O. is elected. A few weeks after he has the power,he and the crime syndicate he is involved with ,including the Deomcrat congress,will make many changes you probably won't like.

He has warned you what he wants to do. You just aren't listening or are too dumb to understand. Or worse,you are part of the problem. You are straining at the bits to live under TSAR OBAMA and his gestapo.

Jean
I tried the full address again, and it worked. There's just a picture of Stern, but the audio is clear. Maybe a lot of people are tuning into it after I posted the address (below).

Stern's reporter went to Harlem (in N.Y. for you Dems), and asked blacks who they were voting for. Like I noted previously, they said "Obama", but the reporter ascribed McCain's platform to him. The responses are a hoot.

When the reporter said that Obama was against stem cell research, was pro-life, and had "elected" Sarah Palin as his V.P., they responded that they believed in those things as well, and thought nothing wrong with Obama's pic for V.P.

These people defined "mindless".

But they're not voting color. No suh!

Anyone who denies an infant life
is a murderer.

O was more concerned that the product of abortion be labeled *medical waste* than give it the legal status as human being. He was afraid abortion might be prohibited if people realized actual babies were being killed.

I hope if no other issue, ACORN, terrorists, truth squads, no resume, no birth certificate, and no ideas newer than the 19th C., that the abortion abomination takes down the worst Obamanation the country has produced.

Taft fits perfectly one of the
Old Testament definitions of "fool". BTW, it has nothing to do with intellect - it is a moral word in Scripture.

"I support him (Obama) because

A. This topic is basically a red herring"

In otherwords, he can't refute it with either logic or reference to a moral standard.

"B, Obama is the most moral of the two"

Stunning! His reversals and lies have been documented by many, as have his associations with unrepentant terrorists, criminals, and hate-mongering pastors.

"C Palins as vp would endanger our nation like nothing els"

Name ONE VP that signed a bill, issued an executive order, appointed a cabinet minister, or nominated a judge.

"D Don't have time to list the other hundred or so sound reasons"

Means "I don't have any sound reasons other than than BDS."

"Remember, being willfully ignorant can be just as bad as being bad outright"

But morally, people like him (committed fools = Heb. lewts) are much worse than ignorant fools (Heb. pethiy).


Pro From Dover....
I just read on another message board, that You Tube has removed the audio from the video. Gee. I wonder if the GOP did that too?

Mario said:
Subject: Mario #54
That's all you got meat? "Republicans are masters at distraction and plain old LIARS."

Mario, if that's true, then why when this ACORN thing is falling all around Obama's feet, he lets others accuse McCain of being racist...yet again...for something others said in a rally, who in my opinion, by past incidences, were liberal plants, set there to create the controversy.

Why is Obama now trying to draw attention way from his complicity over the ACORN issue, by saying the GOP is intimidating voters. I don't see investigations being done on the GOP , or people coming forward saying how they were harrassed, and intimidated, and practically stalked to get them to sign voter registration cards over, and over, on the GOP. ACORN did all of that, and now Obama's trying yet again, like everything else...to pass the buck.

Taft, the Delusional
Here are some obama supporters demonstrating their intelligence and clarity on political matters and choices:

http://www.breitbart.tv:80/?p=194983

This is the Howard Stern video a previous poster noted. Talk about willful ignorance, but just know one thing for certain; they don't vote color. Uh huh, they sure don't.


Taft
Glad to see you set such high standards regarding your criteria for supporting Obama.
At least skin color or age didn't make the list. Are they number 5 and 6?

Mario #54
That's all you got meat? "Republicans are masters at distraction and plain old LIARS."

OOOOOO!! What a master debater you are.

You guys are pathetic.

If a baby...
...doesn't create a dependent mother, or if it "inconveniences" her, then it can be killed, that is, according to a Democrat.

Who's next? The elderly? The infirm? The depressed? The undecided?

Hitler would have been proud of obama.

Unfortunately, it will take this liar
getting into the White House for a while before most people in this country, courtesy of lots of new examples, learn just what a stinking liar this BHO really is.

Right now, he is in "get elected mode," whereby he will say absolutely anything. He has no problem lying or twisting the truth.

Once he gets what he wants, the US will see just what a mistake has been made.

This guy has nothing inside. He is just as much of an empty suit, integrity-wise, as we thought when he first started running.

Taft said:
Remember, being willfully ignorant can be just as bad as being bad outright

I could say the same. Howard Stern, who is not a McCain supporter, sent a reporter out on the streets, for a little experiment. They gave Obama supporters McCains policies, such as pro life, lower taxes etc...and told them these were Obama's policies. They were all for them. They don't even know who Obama is, or what his policies are, but support him....ignorantly.

He wants wealth distribution. This is socialism. I do NOT support it, and those in this country that do support it, do so because of envy of the rich, and lack of discipline to go out, and make their fortunes, so they want to have the riches wealth, handed to them.

FYI. I don't make anything near $250,000 a year, but I abhor socialism such as this. Having it handed to you via the government, is still stealing.


Taft said:
she thinks if you saw something enough times its true. She is being dishonest. The facts can be found at factcheck.org and els where. More importantly, another McCain supporter today yelled "kill him" about Obama. Where is McCain's security of secret service that they let this happen again and again?

You mean like Obama saying over, and over he's never had a thing to do with Ayre's , or ACORN?

As for the people yelling....I'm pretty sure these are plants from the Dems side, trying to create the controversy. Much like all the rioting from liberals and vandalism, and assaults of the elderly, during the RNC....or the intrusion of the convention itself by the code pinks. A radical Liberal named Russo who just happened to be at a rally when these yells of hate first started? hmmm. Makes one really think about it, eh?

FactCheck.org is biased.
.

Jean
I support him because

A. This topic is basically a red herring

B, Obama is the most moral of the two

C Palins as vp would endanger our nation like nothing els

D Don't have time to list the other hundred or so sound reasons

Remember, being willfully ignorant can be just as bad as being bad outright

Hunter said:
McCain is out-lying Obama by about 1000:1. Non-story. Abortion is legal whether you like it or not.


But should infanticide be legal? Tossing a living, breathing, helpless infant into a dirty laundry bin to die, should be legal?

Hey jayhawk
The Kelo decision has made it law that government can take citizens property and give it to others who will pay higher taxes.

Is that right just because its the law of the land too?

You are a major moron sir. I bet U of K must be so proud of you.

Confused...
Why is it, one would support a man, whose lies are adding up each, and every day, to the point they would do almost ANYTHING to help cover it up....over an unwanted, defenseless murder victim, tossed into the garbage?


Judith
I hadn't thought of recycling - with cremation, a whole family's carbon footprint could be reduced to a lump the size of a charcoal briquette. Algore would be happy. ;-)

gemi
My point is that is one shouldn't lie all the time. Honesty will make or break our republic.

daft
Well Townhall lets you still come here with all your BS!! And your point is¿

Carpenter keeps bringing this up
she thinks if you saw something enough times its true. She is being dishonest. The facts can be found at factcheck.org and els where. More importantly, another McCain supporter today yelled "kill him" about Obama. Where is McCain's security of secret service that they let this happen again and again?

come on now hunter
our brave soldiers who have died needlessly in Iraq due to the Bush-McCain policies.

Well, I guess that would not have been a Bush/McCain "policy", IF congress (includes a majority of dumbacrats that had the SAME intell info as everyone else)had not voted to go to war against the Iraqi madman & his regime that was killing, torturing innocent citizens. Selective memory again?!?!?!

Rich
Hunter is beyond even being recycled. He needs to be neutered.

Any Conservatives want an eye-
opener. Even when we get "nasty" here, we are relatively polite. No, you say?

I wouldn't bother to post, but if you want to see how the other side talks, visit the Democratic Underground, or the Daily Kos.

Good luck...you'll need it.

Hunter the hypocrite
"Anyway, we've got enough babies in this overpopulated world already. Can't these woman just quit getting knocked up already...Values begin at home, and I would not want McCain, Palin, or Bush's values anywhere near my children."

You let some of yours live? Why?

Mario is just a troll
All he could come up with is innuendo and assuming calling me a rightie is an insult.

I promise though, that, should I ever run for president, if I were asked for my birth certificate and I were a Constitutional Law Professor/lawyer, I'd certainly know to have my birth certificate in order and when asked, presented without delay or issue.

That would have been done and prepared even before I ran for office. In fact I would have presented it to all interested parties of the Party I am running under so they know I am absolutely qualified, no stone unturned that can be hurled swiftly at my candidacy.

Now for a guy that puts on such a good presentation and as eduated as Senator Obama claims to be, merely not producing his Birth Certificate, the one signed by the doctor and under state seal, reveals a greater accuracy of how he truly manages things. That's the best case scenario to Senator Obama's failure to produce a document that should have been prepared, ready and available long ago.

If one really wants to get proof....

Send an Information Practices Act Request to the Secretary of State for the State of Hawaii, not to broad or narrow, but make sure to ask that no areas are to be "redacted, and in the alternative a certified statement indicating if such document exists or is in your care or subject your control."

Information Practices Act is the State version of FOIA.

To think any American would have to resort to this versus rely on the candidate to produce the genuine article themselves, it's just amazing. Worse that these people who are so indoctrinated by the kgb brainwash, God love em, who will argue the veracity of a forgery which even has the embedding of the program used to modify the document. Horrendous!

Tom
Thank you shipmate. I get the gist of your comment to Mrs Ramsey and it does have some merit. Bottom line here is that we all abhore what BHO stands for and shutter at the thought of him as POTUS! BTY, HospCorpsman here. Never had the chance for sub duty.

re:Subject: If Mercy and Sanity Prevail
Subject: If Mercy and Sanity Prevail

"pre-birth murder"...???? Nice spin. Once again, I am shocked and disgusted that these people who claim to care about the unborn could give a flip about the born, the grown, the homelss, the sick, the unemployed, those who can not afford insurance, our brave soldiers who have died needlessly in Iraq due to the Bush-McCain policies.

I know you bible-thumpers like to pick and choose what you follow from the bible, but for gosh sake, how about putting the "Christ" back in "christian"?

tom in WA
As most everything about Obama is a Lie. He has no backbone, he has no loyalties, he has plenty of lies. He said he could get away with anything when he was a child...all he would do was stare into his mother's eyes and smile... now his smiles are replaced by denial, oh your grandmother is a handicap well throw he under the bus, but defend the black priest, who got tossed under the bus, as was phleger, farrakhan, his buddy reskok and ayers, and now the abortion issue. Amazing.
Thank you for having served and for still being there as a reminder of everything that it means to defend a nation. to all you Veterans, THANKS! my hat's off to ya!

Hunter's best answer to save
humanity is to kill all the unborn or force woman from getting pregnant. Makes one wonder if Hunter has a specific race in mind or just any pregnant woman will do. I can see why Hunter is voting for Obama. I wonder if parental influence skips a generation....lets hope so for the sake of Hunter's children.

re: maldain Subject: re: Hunter

Date: Oct 14, 2008 - 1:51 PM EST Hmmm, you have some seriously twisted logic. ...blah blah blah etc. etc. etc.... One way you're misguided and probably ignorant the other you're in the same camp as the terrorists using the same rational for murder.
-----------------------------------------------
Idiotic response. If any of these right-wing nutjobs had ANY care for the santicty of life, we would not have invaded and decimated a country that did not harm us - IRAQ. Where is the outrage that we have caused the death and injury to thousands of OUR OWN SOLDIERS by waging a war that had NOTHING to do with our national security? All we hear about is "babies". I guess the right-wingers want them to grow up so they too can be sent to the slaughter. Disgusting!

Anyway, we've got enough babies in this overpopulated world already. Can't these woman just quit getting knocked up already, and living off of welfare that we all pay for? How about sex education? The Catholic church is guilty of genocide by denouncing birth control. And Gov. Palin is a terrible mother for letting her kid get knocked up then parading her in front of the world. Values begin at home, and I would not want McCain, Palin, or Bush's values anywhere near my children.

mario: You didn't even watch the video,

did you?

Here, I'll help you out... here's the link once again....

http://noiri.blogspot.com/2008/10/born-in-coast-provincial- general.html


An you know what you should do with your "factcheck.ORG?"


For Mrs. Ramsey
Subj: judith, Geminiguy and Tom

Very well said, Ma'am! I often like to cite, whenever I get a chance, to liberals the difference between the McCains and the Obamas. Nobody can question John's honorable service. And Cindy's resume' is a long list of giving, caring and service to others.

Neither of the Obamas, OTOH, have ever done a damned thing that they weren't very well compensated for, compensated by either polittical power or monetary gain.

Selflessness VS selfishness - guess whose side we'll coms down on every time.

And Obummer did, in fact, gain some political points by denying those babies a right to live and by lying about his actions.

icon-master
There already is a department of murdering live children. It's commonly known as Planned Parenthood whom gets several million in earmarks to supplement their killing of human beings (who happen to be both alive and children at the same time, imagine that)

If Mercy and Sanity Prevail

All will bow before the power of the righteous and these polls will be like a leaf on the wind, blown away, forgotten and of no consequence.

Barack Obama has stated that his highest priority and first act will be to sign the "Freedom of Choice Act", a bill he co-sponsored, which bill would invalidate virtually all state and federal limitations on pre-birth murder, including this procedure (partial birth abortion):

"Dr. Haskell went in with forceps and grabbed the baby's legs and pulled them down into the birth canal. Then he delivered the baby's body and the arms; everything but the head. The doctor kept the head right inside the uterus. The baby's little fingers were clasping and unclasping, and his little feet were kicking. Then the doctor stuck the scissors in the back of his head, and the baby's arms jerked out, like a startle reaction, like a flinch, like a baby does when he thinks he is going to fall....The doctor opened up the scissors, stuck a high-powered suction tube into the opening, and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby went completely limp. He cut the umbilical cord and delivered the placenta. He threw the baby in a pan, along with the placenta and the instruments he had just used."

Imagine then that you were alive and voting in 1860 or 1864. For those of us committed to the cause of the innocents we see the truth for what it is and will never rationalize or excuse the murder of human life.

Human society is perfectible and inexorably heals itself. From the vantage point of a happier future, we will look back on this “modern” world and shudder just a little bit about the ignorance selfishness that would turn the womb, the cradle of life, into a slaughterhouse.

Some will be punished and some will be pardoned.

Have you done your part to rescue the babies?

Off subject a little.
I am approaching 70 and have been watching politics since the early 60s. I have never seen such venom and hate from so-called supporters, as we now see from the Obama supporters on this and other sites. I guess ACORN and Obama leftists have done a good job of brainwashing the young in the government schools in this country.

Jeffrey #30: Thank you.
.

Rights and desserts (Tom)
"I simply took exception to the very idea of anyone not being entitled to express an opinion...If we shout them down, we're no better than they are."

A few days ago in the UK, a guy was on a ledge threatening to jump. Some in the crowd were taunting him, sayng, "How far can you bounce?" He ultimately jumped and died, and those with cell phones rushed to take pictures.

(1) Mrs. Ramsey did not use the word "right".
(2) There is no such thing as unrestricted free speech (threats, inciting riots, libel, slander, etc.)
(3) I sure as h3ll would have done all in my power to shout down those evil doers in the UK if I were in the crowd. Wouldn't you? Those in the crowd who did NOT attempt to silence them were no better than they were.


Bill in DC
As Jesus said "forgive them father they know not what they do

I fear that I cannot be as charitable as you, because I think most of these Obamaniacs DO know what they're doing and they're gonna do it anyways.
That's certainly true of a certain Obamaniac in my own family who I have told the truth to repeatedly and he only gets angrier at me. I cannot visit such charity even upon him!

Re: Hunter Reply #5
Hey-you are right. Abortion is legal, so let's just kill those babies even if they do happen to make it past the machine trying to suck out their brains, or tools trying to pull arms and legs off.They don't deserve to live-afterall the mother doesn't want that burden. She shouldn't have to put up with a few months of pregnancy in order to offer 75 years of life to this unwanted blob of tissue in her womb which was designed to be the safest place in the world for babies. Americans just don't care about this issue anymore either. After all, why in the world would ANYONE vote for the most liberal, lying, unprepared,senator who shows time and again that he is only interested in becoming president, and he surrounds himself with those who want to see him elected. He will be the easiest president to manipulate ever!

Screwtape asked
"So you don't mind living babies being thrown into a trash can to die? "

Of course! We liberals only get up in the morning so that we can throw living children into trash cans. When Obama is elected there will be a department of murdering live children; You tube will feature Democrats eating children for breakfast every day.

How stupid are you?

For Geminiguy
Subject: Mrs. Ramsey

Yes, I DID, in fact, understand Mrs. Ramsey's strong feelings and I share them with her and with you. I, too, am a military retiree, US Navy Submarine Service. I simply took exception to the very idea of anyone not being entitled to express an opinion. We all are, and we served, and Mrs. Ramsey's family are serving, to protect and guarantee that right.
All that said, let me reiterate that I abhor all that the cretin in question says and stands for, but he has a right to say it and stand for it. If we shout them down, we're no better than they are.

I agree with Mrs. Ramsey! Go sister!
I have two sons in the military - a sailor and marine, and don't thank me - thank the next one you see.

DESERVE:

1. to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation: to deserve exile; to deserve charity; a theory that deserves consideration.
–verb (used without object) 2. to be worthy of, qualified for, or have a claim to reward, punishment, recompense, etc.: to reward him as he deserves; an idea deserving of study.

He has a RIGHT to express his crap, but he doesn't DESERVE to HERE in rational company by way of merit or worthiness. Some opinions are NOT deserving of publication or reflection. The very idea that a new-born struggling living human does NOT have fundamental constitutional human and legal or moral rights to prompt medical care is NOT deserving of discussion.

Fellow Conservatives...
We've all joined in feeding the trolls. Though I don't know how to post a link, it seems to me we should feel sorry for them, for their weakmindedness and being so easily brainwashed by the KGB over these last 60+ years (they had a progam to do that, Kruschev's idea no doubt).

http://www.bafweb.com/2007/09/26/yuri-bezmenov-les-idiots-u tiles-du-socialisme/


As Jesus said "forgive them father they know not what they do."


Zoophile-Rights COMING SOON?
Have you seen the new documentary about a zoophile-rights organization out in Prague????

This is a MUST-SEE!!!

It's called "Coming Soon" and is streaming for free at http://www.comingsoon.cz.

Am I dreaming???

For Geminiguy
Subject: Mrs. Ramsey

People Get the Leaders they Deserve
I hope and pray that we don't deserve someone who is so callous as to approve letting a baby human just die, for any reason including no reason.

I hope we don't deserve a Marxist who wishes to plunder to country and hand the wealth out. It will be like the goose that layed the golden egg. Barry wishes to kill the goose.

Mario
As far as McCain in regard to ACORN....

Maverick!

In what most thought were isolated incidence in the past, ACORN wasn't considered to be doing what it is today. At the time they were not exposed for their desire as a group to cancel out legitimate votes by stealing the votes of those they register.

Senator McCain in his Historic Maverick Fashion was at a rally supporting the bill he and Ted Kennedy had proposed, and it failed, due to the many people who felt it was amnesty.

I am sure this upsets you more than anything else and this attempt to take a shot at McCain who stood by what he believed in even though the republicans didn't like the bill. Here Bush I believe was also aligned with McCain as he wanted an immigration reform bill, but the American people do not want amnesty by any name.

re: Hunter
Hmmm, you have some seriously twisted logic. First of all, in wars people get killed. The difference between us and the bad guys is we target the bad guys and sometimes miss and hit civilians which is a tragedy. The bad guys target civilians and hit which for them is a victory. But in your eyes we're the bad guys because some vermin set a bomb in a market place and that vermin isn't even from the country let alone the city where the market place is located. That's fine I can see that you're in the same league as the terrorists who blow up some kid and then say see what you made me do. The fact is we don't make these guys target civilians. We don't make them target women or children or the elderly. They do it all on their own so they can inspire the useful idiots of this world...my question to you is are you one of the useful idiots or do you realize the foolishness of your argument and are just trying to locate useful idiots? One way you're misguided and probably ignorant the other you're in the same camp as the terrorists using the same rational for murder.

judith, Geminiguy and Tom
thanks, My husband and I are proud Americans just like all of you, I despair and worry that an Obama presidency will bring them home not only demoralized but defeated. We cannot have another defeat, the pride of our nation, the treasure spent and the continued sense of security which is a preamble to peace in our homeland is protected by those who selflessly contain the terrorist away from our shores. The job is taxing, and as most servicemembers will tell you they do it gladly but never in defeat...that's a deal breaker. People like candidate Obama, who have no sense of what it means to selflessly serve, who have never sacrified anything, who take freedom for granted have the luxury to speak defeat without giving a thought to what that would mean. God protect us from fools.

Jayhawk - Sig Heil!!

You wrote, "Don't have one if you don't agree, and get out of the way cause humanity and the greater good are coming on thru."


Wow - That is the exact philosophy Hitler used to exterminate millions of Jews. Killing for the "greater good".

Nice that you are so supportive of killing children.

jayhawk
Once again, nothing of substance from jayhawk. The point, troll, is not that abortion is or is not legal. The point is that His Highness King Hussein supported allowing babies who had been born alive following botched abortions to die without being given any type of medical care whatsoever. This has been documented and is not a lie, unlike his denials. Even NARAL would not go that far. This has nothing to do with abortion, doofus. If this is the "greater good" that you are so breathlessly expecting I shudder for the future of this country.

Mario
If you think they'd have said race "african" in 1961 you've explained yourself well.

If you believe an Annenberg related institution will not do anything it can to protect itself considering Annenberg's funding of the Annenberg challenge, that there is no bias. You've certified your lack of capacity to reason even further.

If you haven't looked into how we happen to have the Panama Canal, and that McCain was born there when it was a United States property, that we just took, you've only embarrassed yourself trying to make a point you do not understand.

If you don't know the difference between a certification of live birth and a certificate of live birth, then I am sure Obama could sell you ice as an Eskimo as well.

I understand your need to push you point, you've got an ego investment in being on the left, however, there is a reasonablenes to the birth certificate issue.

Barack Obama should be able to deliver the actual certificate and not a certification which indicates a pc race choice upon demand. This would have the name of mother and father, and the doctor attesting to the birth. You'll find if you seek out your own it looks nothing like what you've posted a link to, and this is conclusive evidence of your identity as well. In fact older ones, like in 1961, had the feet prints of the child stamped on them.


Mario #2
And your point?

Mrs. Ramsey
Thank you and your husband from our family here in Colorado. It is good to know that there are brave and honest men and women who watch our country and try to keep it safe.

God bless.

screwtape
I can't. Obama was the one that used the term in explaining what these who are born from a botched abortion are, it's in the transcript that I typed in and posted to my blog here on townhall. I included a link to the original at the Illinois state senate and did the best I could to keep the line endings the same for people who might want to verify what I typed in.

[url]http://toddy.blogtownhall.com/[/url]

I hope that works to make it a link, but just read it for yourself, that's why I went looking for it too.

Mrs Ramsey
I would like to personally thank you and your husband for your service to our country. As a mil. retiree, I know and undersatnd what you must be going through. In Tom's response, I'm not sure if he took your situation into account first prior to his posting. ALthough he is correct abouts our rights, he probably doesn't take into account the VERY strong feelings, as well as trying to protect your husbands honor and your sacrfices.

Hunter
Who care? I do because Hussein hasn't got the foggiest notion of what it is like to allow an infant to die in front of you. He also lies because he is a consummate liar.

It is one thing to have an abortion in the first 12 weeks when what is removed is hard to distinguish as human. It is quite another to watch an infant with fingers and toes gasp for air and slowly turn blue and expire.

The other aspect of his lies and then lies to neutralize the initial lie is that he paints this Messianic picture of himself as being the great black hope.

If someone like Powell or Rice were running, I'd vote for them as I have no feelings one way or the other about white versus black. But this dude is using the color of his skin to save thyat black skin. And all the while, a puppet of Soros, Ayers and ACORN.

Do Muslims believe in heaven and purgatory? If so I hope he rots.

Response to Mario...
Your claim sounds far fetched. ACORN was not the main sponsor of the event. In fact it wasn't even about ACORN. You really need to check you facts before you post lies.

Secondly - while McCain has already shown he will fight for his country... Obama will only fight to save his campaign. Which by the way WILL FADE VERY SOON!!!!!


Hunter
Do you realize how childish you sound?

Bill
define 'previable'.

Hunter
So you don't mind living babies being thrown into a trash can to die?

Response to Hunter in CA...
[HUNTER] What about the 1000's or hundred thousands who have died at Bush's hand, with John McCain's blessing? All the war dead - the innocent children, babies and adults who our President and McCain have had killed in Iraq? Our brave soldiers who have given there lives fighting this war of Bush-McCain hubris?

[TWO POUND] In case you don't remember we dropped a bunch of brochures warning that we were bombing the area well before we did anything. If any innocent children were killed it is because there idiot parents wouldn't let them leave the area. Israel and the United States are the only countries I know of that take this extreme measure before battle to SAVE innocent lives.

jayhawk
So, killing babies is for 'the greater good'? I'll pass, thanks.

svpallava
Subject: Not much on which bh0 has been truthful
last I checked, the only item on the truths list was his desire to be president.

Oppppps, he lied again. He wants to be Comrade Premier under the guise of President.

Obama's Leadership Role on Committee
Another aspect of this vote is Obama's leadership on the committee. The column states that he was chairman of the committee. As he is currently a junior Senator with not many other accomplishments; this, along with his leadership role in the Chicago Annenberg challenge (and we all know what great judgement he showed in seeking counsel there), this chairmanship is really one of the only leadership roles with which we have to judge Obama's leadership ability. We see that in this committee, he negotiated an amendment to get the bill passed in committee, and then promptly cast the deciding vote to kill born alive babies. Great leadership.

Appalling Lack of Respect...
for the rule of law in Merica. Abortions are legal. They will remain legal. Quit whining. Don't have one if you don't agree, and get out of the way cause humanity and the greater good are coming on thru.

"previable" was the term Obama used
After seeing your article come up I typed in the transcript from 03/30/2001 so people could see for themselves how Obama argued with O'Malley. I included a link to the original from the Illinois Senate as well.

http://toddy.blogtownhall.com/default.aspx

Enjoy.


P.S. This issue is really important to me, it reflect his character very well. So I hope there isn't any problem with me putting a link in my reply here, if so let me know. Thank you.

Mrs. Ramsey in CA
People like you don't deserve to utter their opinions

Much as I disagree with all that Hunter says and stands for, I must take exception to your statement (above). Even the likes of this cretin has a right to an opinion and deserves the right to express them. I do, though, understanad that opinions are like as-holes - everybody has one and some of them REALLY STINK!

Hunter CA
People like you don't deserve to utter their opinions. my guess is, next time we get hit by a terrorist the same one whose name rhymes with Obama.(get it OSAMA) we will be sure to send them that way You californians seem in a hurry to have your worse nightmares come to pass. The security of this country cannot be left to people who cut tail and run... we were hit in our homefront but people like you, sure of your safety, the safety I might add guaranteed by President Bush, don't deserve to call themselves American.
The difference between a baby and a soldier is choice, like everything else in life. A soldier chooses a carrier a baby might want life but gets no right to choose. get it? My husband is in the Military, he is no murderer, yet he places his life in danger to protect scum like you.

Hunter CA
People like you don't deserve to utter their opinions. my guess is, next time we get hit by a terrorist the same one whose name rhymes with Obama.(get it OSAMA) we will be sure to send them that way You californians seem in a hurry to have your worse nightmares come to pass. The security of this country cannot be left to people who cut tail and run... we were hit in our homefront but people like you, sure of your safety, the safety I might add guaranteed by President Bush, don't deserve to call themselves American.
The difference between a baby and a soldier is choice, like everything else in life. A soldier chooses a carrier a baby might want life but gets no right to choose. get it? My husband is in the Military, he is no murderer, yet he places his life in danger to protect scum like you.

Hunter supports evil
"who cares?"

They dying baby cares, I care, and God cares. You will too, when you meet God.

It's despicable!

Not much on which bh0 has been truthful
last I checked, the only item on the truths list was his desire to be president.

Hunter in nCA
Subject: Question... ALSO,

I've never seen any evidence that Bush or any GI has ever killed anyone, unlike the Clintons (Vince Foster). As far as I know, all the innocent Iraqis who have been slaughtered have been at the hands of Islamic extremists and foreign fighters imported mainly thru the efforts of slimy scumbags like Anmadinejad (sp? - Jihad Joe in Iran) and Hamas, which has ENDORSED BHO.

Hunter
Please stop with the distortion. There is no "Bush-McCain" ticket. Second, there is a big difference between grown men and women choosing to fight for their country and die and little defenseless babies being left in a cold room to die alone without even the slighest sense of love and human touch.
Secondly, when we don't have truth we have nothing. I am not sure you really want to live in a world where you accept any and everything your leader of choice has done because he is your man.
While I voted for Bush twice and I don't all or even half of the things he did while in office. My experience with Obama supporters in that they will justify 100% of what he has done over the years is scary. Why can't you say "while I don't like his vote against the born alive bill - he is still my guy". Why can't you say "while I don't like that he attended Wright's church for 20 years he is still the person I am voting for".
The inability of Obama supporters to do that is what has me perplexed. You don't have to love, support, or endorse everything he has done to vote for him. Why can't you be honest and allow truth to come forward. If I vote for McCain that doesn't mean I like everything he does or has done in the past. I can honestly say that while his stance of illegal immigration makes me want to vomit and that alone may cause a Revolution - I am still more comfortable voting for him than for Obama. See, it won't kill you and you won't die if you are HONEST about your candidate.
This hero worship will get us no where as a country but on a path towards destruction. Power already corrupts even the best of people, when you lead a man to think that anything and everything he does is okay he will go evil or at least mad (as in crazy). People, espeically leaders, need others that will hold them accountable and responsible for their behavior. Your choice to not hold Obama accountable for his decisions is not good or safe for any of us.

Obama a liar?
So tell us something we're not already too painfully aware of!

Hunter in CA
Subject: Question...
Hundreds of thousands? You're almost as credible as Whoopi Goldberg on The View. What, OTOH, about the LITERALLY hundreds of thousands who died at the hands of Saddam Hussein? Did you not see the news pictures of the dead children lying in the streets after Saddam had his poison gas "tested"?
As for the military, why don't you ask them? In a couple of my veterans organizations, US Submarine Veterans, for one, we hear directly from a LOT of GIs in the field. They are overwhelmingly supportive of their mission. Sure, there are problems, but they overcome them in creative ways only a GI can come up with. And the wounded? Ask, why don't you, why most want to rejoin their unit combat team as soon as they're sufficiently recovered.
If you want to build widgets, go ask an experienced widget builder for advice. If you want to fight a war, ask those who know and are experienced at what they're doing, not a yellow-bellied liar like that as-hole Obama.

Question...
What about the 1000's or hundred thousands who have died at Bush's hand, with John McCain's blessing? All the war dead - the innocent children, babies and adults who our President and McCain have had killed in Iraq? Our brave soldiers who have given there lives fighting this war of Bush-McCain hubris? And the treatment they get once they return home wounded? Bush-McCain are 100% responsible for that? Where's the compassion for those killed by Bush and McCain? Don't use abortion as a shiled - it's a line of bull and you all know it.

Bush-McCain is the most dangerous team to descend on this country EVER!

Under - Reported.
I don't think we have every had such a sick man this close to the White House. Obama also said that "having a Dr. available after a botched abortion only complicates the original decision". This is on record. Obama is dangerous for America.

THIS IS THE WAY HE DEALS EVIL!
HE LIES THIS IS THE WAY HE WILL TAKE AWAY ALL OUR RIGHTS,HE USES BIG WORDS,HE IS THE TALKER,THE ORATER,THE PLANER AND THE DECEIVER.

who cares?
McCain is out-lying Obama by about 1000:1. Non-story. Abortion is legal whether you like it or not.

LANDSLIDE: OBAMA '08

Hussein has no shame
He votes for the amendment, then votes against the bill as amended? Does His Highness King Hussein WANT children to die just so he can burnish his pro-abortion creds? Even NARAL wouldn't go that far. This punk is scary.

Lying Murderer
It is impossible for this man to not lie. Americans need to WAKE UP NOW!! he doesn't even know what he's saying!!! How can you vote for someone who wants to send your daughters to war? Are his daughters going? HE IS A FRAUD, AND HE IS SITTING ON THE SIDELINES LAUGHING AT ALL OF US....SOCIALISM FAILS, CAPITALISM DOES NOT......STOP OBAMA NOW!!!

Obama Lied! Babies Died!
Obama Lied! Babies Died!

Lying Murdered
So he endorses murder and is a liar. And people want to vote for this guy? Americans just might deserve an Obama presidency. We are a degenerate immoral nation.
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