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Friday, September 19, 2008
Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama Keeps Distorting "Born Alive" Vote
by Amanda Carpenter
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Barack Obama’s campaign has a new advertisement up that accuses John McCain of “lying” about Obama’s opposition to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, a bill to protect babies who survived abortion.

The only problems are that McCain never leveled the charge and the charge isn’t a lie.

According to the ad, John McCain lied about Obama’s stance on the bill. “John McCain attacks? The sleaziest ads ever, truly vile,” a female narrator says. “Now, votes taking out of context accusing Obama of letting infants die? It’s a despicable lie.”

McCain has never directly hit Obama on BAIPA, but an independent group called BornAliveTruth.org has. BornAliveTruth.org has been organized to educate the public on the Illinois Born Alive Infant Protection Act and Obama’s record opposing it. Last month, pro-lifers unearthed evidence from the Illinois state archives that showed Obama had lied about his record on the bill.

SEE TOWNHALL’S PREVIOUS REPORT ABOUT OBAMA’S LIE.

Obama has repeatedly claimed he would have voted for Illinois’ version BAIPA had it included language to protect abortion rights guaranteed by Roe v. Wade, as the federal version of the bill did, which sailed through the U.S. Senate 98-0. Contrary to what Obama has said, old records from the Illinois Senate archives show Obama did vote against a BAIPA bill that included such a neutrality clause virtually identical to the federal bill.

“We have a smoking gun committee report,” said National Right to Life Committee Legislative Counsel Susan Muskett told Townhall last month.

Muskett’s “smoking gun” is a 2003 Health and Human Services Committee report recorded by Republican committee staff. It documents a unanimous 10-0 vote by the 2003 Illinois Senate Health and Human Services Committee, which Obama chaired at the time, to amend BAIPA to include the exact same language that was added to the federal version to protect Roe v. Wade. The committee report also shows a subsequent “final action” vote to determine if the bill should advance out of committee or be killed. The bill was defeated 6-4. Chairman Obama voted in the majority.

This means that, in essence, Obama voted to successfully amend the bill in a way that Obama has said would have enabled him to support it—before he voted against it. It also puts Obama further to the left of NARAL Pro-Choice America. According to a statement released by the abortion-rights lobby in the run-up to the U.S. Senate’s BAIPA vote in 2002, “NARAL does not oppose passage of the Born Alive Infants Protection Act … floor debate served to clarify the bill’s intent and assure us that it is not targeted at Roe v. Wade or a woman’s right to choose.”

For those who may doubt partisan records, the Republican committee report is backed by an Associated Press article that documented the 6-4 vote on the amended version of the bill.

“The Senate Health and Human Services Committee rejected a bill that declares any fetus with a beating heart or muscle movement outside the womb as ‘born alive,’” reporter Kristy Hessman’s AP story said. Her article was filed from Springfield, Ill., and dated the same day as the Republican committee report, removing any doubt she was reporting on any other measure. “The measure is in response to a rare abortion procedure in which labor is induced and the fetus sometimes survives, possibly for hours,” Hessman wrote. “The sponsor, Sen. Rick Winkel, R-Champaign, said the bill is modeled after a recent federal policy that defines a ‘born-alive’ infant. But critics said defining when a fetus is ‘alive’ could require doctors to provide care and might expose them to legal action if they don’t, even if there was no way the fetus could survive outside the womb. Winkel’s bill got four ‘yes’ votes and six ‘no’ votes.”

There is also audio available on the Internet of Obama explaining why he did not think the bill should pass. “Essentially, adding an additional doctor who has to be called into an emergency situation to come in and make these assessments designed simply to burden the original decision to induce labor and perform the abortion,” Obama said.

Abortion survivor Gianna Jessen is a member of BornAliveTruth.org. She put a scorching statement up on her website reacting to Obama’s attack on her group. “Mr. Obama is clearly blinded by political ambition given his attack on me this week,” she said. “All I asked of him was to do the right thing: support medical care and protection for babies who survive abortion – as I did 31 years ago. He voted against such protection and care four times even though the U.S. Senate voted 98-0 in favor of a bill identical to the one Obama opposed. In the words of his own false and misleading ad, his position is downright vile. Mr. Obama said at the recent Saddleback Forum that the question of when babies should get human rights was above his pay grade. Such vacillation and cowardice in public policy almost left me to die and no one should have to go through what I went through.”

Pro-life activist and former nurse Jill Stanek, who testified before Obama in the Illinois State Legislature after she rocked an aborted baby to his death in a soiled utility room, is also active in the group.

She released a statement of her own on the website.

"It is despicable, repulsive and beneath contempt that Barack Obama would attack Gianna Jessen,” Stanek said. “She is a courageous abortion survivor and living miracle who would not be with us today if Obama's policies had been in place when she was born. Mr. Obama continues to mislead the American people on this issue, he voted four times against medical care and protection for babies who survive abortions in the Illinois State Senate, while the U.S. Senate was voting 98-0 to pass an identical bill. Mr. Obama needs to come forward and tell the American people that he understands people like Gianna Jessen, and that he will support and enforce Born Alive Infant protections -- that these are living, breathing human beings who have come into our world and deserve protection in the law and should receive medical care at health care facilities. These babies have the same rights as the rest of us."

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About The Author
Amanda Carpenter is the author of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton,” published in October 2006.
 
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references?
You write- "We have proven to a 100% degree of certainty that it contained the exact clause. We have proven to a 100% of certainty that Obama lied."

But here is the truth-
"Thirteen different bills relating to the rights of infants born alive as the result of a botched abortion were proposed during the 92nd (2001-2002) and 93rd (2003-2004) Illinois General Assemblies. See The Illinois Analogs to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act.
Five bills - 92-1095, 92-1662, 93-1082, 93-2631, and 93-2855 - were essentially copies of the federal Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2002 (BAIPA). However, only the fifth bill contained a “preservation clause” similar to the federal BAIPA." 1.

As you can see, the bill 93-1082 DID NOT have the preservation clause, (what you are calling the "protection clause"). Only the fifth bill, 93-2855 did. To continue-

"None of the bills in the 93rd assembly made it to a full Senate vote. Senate Bill 93-1083 (didn't have the clause) never made it out of the Health & Human Services Committee, of which Obama was Chair. Senate Bills 93-2631 and 93-2855 (this last had the clause) never made it out of the Rules Committee, of which Obama was not a member. Thus, it would appear at first glance that Obama had no hand in killing these bills..." 2.

You write- "Now, you claim that this federal clause would undermine Illinois legal precedents."
There was a 2nd reason- there was already a law from 1975 that protected these babies. "In 2005, Illinois lawmakers inserted an extra provision asserting that the law would not affect "existing federal or state law regarding abortion." The measure passed without opposition from Planned Parenthood and with the support of groups opposed to abortion."- chicagotribune.com Obama was in the US Senate then.
Most people have more than one reason for something.

1. & 2.- http://nugentslaw.wordpress.com/

Ruth
Obama himself repeatedly claimed that he would have supported SB 93-1082 if it had a protection clause like the federal Roe v Wade protection clause.

THIS WAS OBAMA’S OWN STATED REASON!

We have proven to a 100% degree of certainty that it contained the exact clause. We have proven to a 100% of certainty that Obama lied.

Can we at least agree that Obama lied?

Now, you claim that this federal clause would undermine Illinois legal precedents. This is just a new cover story being used to defend Obama’s indefensible actions now that the above lie has been exposed. There will always be a new lie that attempts to cover for the exposed lie.

You state that Obama’s “punished with a baby” remark shows that “they would keep the baby.” I assume by this that you mean that Obama and his wife would raise their daughter’s baby.

Of course you have the right to interpret his remarks any way you choose, but this interpretation is absolute nonsense and nobody will ever buy such balderdash.

Fiddlesticks!

to mr obvious
State laws (from 1975) already protected fully born human life. Here's the law-
Illinois Law Stated That A Doctor Must Preserve The Life And Health Of A Fetus If In The Course Of An Abortion, There Is Reasonable Likelihood Of Sustained Survival. The Illinois Compiled Statutes stated that any physician who intentionally performs an abortion when, in his medical judgment based on the particular facts of the case before him, there is a reasonable likelihood of sustained survival of the fetus outside the womb, with or without artificial support, shall utilize that method of abortion which, of those he knows to be available, is in his medical judgment most likely to preserve the life and health of the fetus. No abortion shall be performed or induced when the fetus is viable unless there is in attendance a physician other than the physician performing or inducing the abortion who shall take control of and provide immediate medical care for any child born alive as a result of the abortion. Subsequent to the abortion, if a child is born alive, the physician required to be in attendance shall exercise the same degree of professional skill, care and diligence to preserve the life and health of the child as would be required of a physician providing immediate medical care to a child born alive in the course of a pregnancy termination which was not an abortion. Violation of these statutes constituted a Class 3 felony. [Illinois Compiled Statutes, 720 ILCS 510/6]
About the "punished wit a baby" comment. In supporting sex Ed to reduce unwanted pregnancies, he stated, if one of his daughters "made a mistake", (had pre-marital sex), he wouldn't want her to be "punished with a baby", (learn the hard way the consequences). That shows his high moral standards. It sounds to me like they would keep the baby. I think we all can agree that children having children is not a good idea. This has just been spun to be a smear.

How many babies died in the mean time?
He blocked it in 03, it passed in 05, that's two years. How many innocent lives were lost as a result? Potential legal technicalities, that might prevent PBAs down the road, don't justify blocking a solution urgently needed at that time. It doesn't mater if he is for it now that it has passed. What maters is that he was willing to put abortion rights ahead of human life. Not just potential life. Not even just unborn life. Fully born human life. No normal person could do that. Only someone who doesn't want a woman to be "punished with a baby" could do that. Only someone who lacks real emotions, and cares only about what they want, could do that. I believe that is one of the definitions of a sociopath. So, only a sociopath could do that.

further- Obama is for BAIPA
----just not the 1st versions of the bills that were presented, for reasons in my post below.
He has said he would have voted for the Federal version. That means he is for it, right?
I applaud you that you, also, are championing the rights of babies.

About the one of the 1st versions presented in the state of Illinois in 2003-
"Supporters of abortion rights say Obama was right to oppose the 2003 bill, even though it had the same wording as the federal measure. The wording could have had a different effect at the state level, they say, by undermining Illinois' legal precedents on abortion.
Once more, the key is the 1975 Illinois abortion law, which contains language that's similar but not identical to the later bill. The 2003 bill could have affected the way courts interpret the 1975 law, which Planned Parenthood and the Illinois State Medical Society contended could have far-reaching implications."
and please especially note- "In 2005, Illinois lawmakers inserted an extra provision asserting that the law would not affect "existing federal or state law regarding abortion." The measure passed without opposition from Planned Parenthood and with the support of groups opposed to abortion." (By that time Obama was in the US Senate, since 2004).
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/health/chi -obama-abortion_webaug20,0,1260617.story

reply to Retired Greek and all
Obama doesn't support partial birth abortion. He didn't vote for the ban because it contained no provision to protect the health of the mother, as you can see in Michelle Obama's email-
"The fact remains, with no provision to protect the health of the mother, this ban on a legitimate medical procedure is clearly unconstitutional and must be overturned."
In other words even of the mother's life were in danger, there could be no abortion.
It should be noted that McCain has been for abortion, yes, even partial birth, in 2000 and 2007, in cases for the health of the mother, rape, and incest. One of the issues he has been a Maverick in his party about.
Also, Obama is for BAIPA, but not for those 1st bills, the way they were worded. They would have- 1. eroded abortion rights. He explains, (your reference)-
“Whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the Equal Protection Clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we're really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a -- a child, a 9-month old -- child that was delivered to term. That determination then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place. I mean, it -- it would essentially bar abortions, because the Equal Protection Clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an anti-abortion statute.” Barack Obama 2002 Illinois
He also said- 2. there were already Ill. state laws in place, (that protected babies born alive).
He hasn't retracted these statements, still on his web site. I would to know where you got that info.
And he added he would have voted for Fed version. It's noted the wording is the same, but, "The wording could have had a different effect at the state level, they say, by undermining Illinois' legal precedents on abortion.", chicagotribune.com)


abortion survivors
I wonder how Mr. Obama would feel about not helping aborted survivors, if he held a baby that had survived an abortion until it died? What if it was his niece, nephew, or grandchild?
No one with feelings could just do nothing. The trouble is I haven't seen any authentic emotions from the man.All I hear are half-truths, lies, and vacillation.

Dale
Earlier, you provided a link to the SB-1095 in the 92nd Illinois General Assembly which met between 2001 and 2002. The purpose of this bill was to define a “born alive infant,” and to give it human rights.

Unfortunately, you didn’t admit in your post what the final action was. I will provide for all to see.

“Last action on Bill: SESSION SINE DIE

Last action date: JAN-07-2003”

It appears that 92-1095 didn’t pass.

Therefore, your statement that “Illinois law already protected children born alive via abortion,” appears to be false. If my analysis is incorrect, please provide the evidence proving that this bill passed.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/status/920SB1095 .html

The issue was again taken up again in the 93rd General Assembly because the 92nd had yet to resolve the issue. At this point, Senator Obama was the Chairman of the Illinois Senate’s Health and Human Services Committee.

The bill was 93-1082 and it was filed in February of 2003.

Senator Obama blocked it in March 2003.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=1082& GAID=3&DocTypeID=SB&LegID=3910&SessionID=3&SpecSess=&Sessio n=&GA=93#actions

If my analysis is correct, you are the one who “distort(s) the facts to succeed.”

Obama and infanticide
Obama claims that he has clearly stated his rationale for his vote that essentially allows infanticide in his state. He is crying foul that his record is being distorted.

Does he not comprehend that there is NO rationale that makes possible the slow, excruciating deaths of innocent babies who survive the abortion procedure?

He claims that he wanted certain language in the bill before he would prevent born alive infants from dying alone?

And the language he wants would protect rights of mothers to abort all babies up to full term?


That is a totally indefensible position that defies any sense of decency. Our country should not elect a man to any office--let alone the presidency--who has this demented kind of judgment.


Dumping babies is illegal!
In recent years, we've heard of mothers who dump their newborn babies in public parks, streets and even trash bins – as if they were like dirty napkins. Such actions are considered illegal and morally reprehensible in most civilized societies. Nevertheless, millions of unseen babies are thrown away like garbage in the name of convenience. Never mind too that a few babies do survive an abortion; they’re killed and dumped in garbage because no one supposedly cared about them. There’s an alternative to this, folks; it’s called adoption. If these babies survive they should be allowed to live and be put up for adoption. In any event, abortion is just another form of extermination and in some ways more sinister because it’s considered okay to get rid of the most helpless because they're an inconvenience to others. It seems like the world - more specifically, the left-wing/liberal world - has not learned much from such failed and horrendous experiments such as 1950s Germany, Rwanda, Darfur, China, etc. This, readers, is the real “inconvenient truth.”

A bad name
Read this, and then let's remove this article. Born Alive Truth is using Townhall and giving Townhall a bad name.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infantici de.html

Question to Obama Supporters
If a baby survives an abortion, in other words, if the baby is born alive, should medical personal be required to provide care to the baby?

Or, should the baby be set aside somewhere to die?


Nonsense.
*yawn* This is old news. Obama does not support infanticide. No elected offical does. He supports reproductive rights, and many Democrats do. The reasons for him opposing the bill at the time are clearly stated. Why do we have to keep rehashing this?

Amanda
I don't know how you resist the temptation to be like the other journalists in MSM. But keep it up. You have my respect. You are slowly turning into my favorite reporter.

UNCONCIONABLE
It is very disturbing that anyone could support these gruesome deaths. Our most precious gifts are destroyed in the name of selfish arrogance. This is a diqualifying issue for voters with a good conscience.

Mr. Obama you do not have the sensitivity to govern. You are a disgrace to the human race.

B Hussein Obama The Saudi
Barak has said"If my daughters make a mistake, I don't want them to be punished by a baby". Get that? Punished. Could it be any more clear as to where he stands on abortion?

Shut Up!!
Thanks Hazel,
I have the transcripts and know where Obama stands on this issue. What tick's me off is writers like Carpenter who don't put the facts out there and back them up with documentation when they write. If she and others would just do what you did and post the facts, then it would cause all the cool-aid drikers that support Obama to shut up. Documentation is the key to changing the minds of some of these Obama supporters.

obama
you can tell he is lieing since his lips are moving

this shows the true Obama
Obama is flailing on this issue which reveals so very much about his worldview. Obama would be a disaster as president, especially with Pelosi and Reid pulling the string attached to the ring in his nose.

St Barack and lying
How can you accuse St Barack of lying? He's for and against everything. He speaks on both sides of his mouth, depending on who he is talking to. When he is speaking to jews, he's for a united Jerusalem, when is speaking to muslims, he's against it. To anti-tax people, he's against raising taxes, to the pro-tax crowd, he's for taxing the "rich". To the pro-abortion, he's for unlimited abortion, to the anti-abortion crowd, he's for eliminating abortion. Wake up people, he's a snake oil salesman.

Obama the Pathological Liar.
Obama hasn’t distorted anything. Obama lied. The two Roe v Wade Protection Clauses are identical.

Federal Roe v Wade Protection Clause:

“(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being `born alive' as defined in this section.'.”

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c107:5:./temp/~c1074h DQBt::

Illinois Roe v Wade Protection Clause:

“c) Nothing in this Section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being born alive as defined in this Section.”

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=09300S B1082sam001&GA=93&SessionId=3&DocTypeId=SB&LegID=3910&DocNu m=1082&GAID=3&Session=

If Obama wants to support abortion on demand and infanticide, he should at least be honest about his position. Of course, if he were honest, the American people would reject him as the detestable individual that he is.

Obama lied, period!

Who Speaks for Women? Not Obama
WOW! Senator, have you no shame?
This issue clearly is above your paygrade!
If you are willing to look your RECORD sqare in the eye and accuse McCain of "vile lies" when he wasn't even the source of the accusation, then if and when you are elected, you would also use the power of your office to silence people who speak up against you, whethter they speak truth or lies.
Notice the number of women who speak in this comment thread. Are they not real women? They are, but they are not bitter, feminist, liberals claiming to speak for ALL WOMEN. They just speak for themselves.
Notice the charge by liberal women that Sarah P. is not a woman!
When you ask why liberal's are so full of venom for Sarah, it is easy to answer. They don't represent all women. They don't even represent the majority of women. They never have.
But now it is on display for all to see.

MR O
Obama is a PUNK (ok so is Biden) These two PUNKS have no business in govrment!!!

Term Limits,,,,NOW

So there, stick it Barbara S

Doc
Army

do the elect care about the little guy?
In view of Peloski's attitude towards saying she will allow drilling, but, only to win the election, it should be plain to see that she cares nothing about paying $5.00 a gal for gas.
She cares nothing for the little guy, only for those that want to control the little guy through using the environmental issues, half of which are lies.
Her view point on everything proves that she cares not for the unborn, neither does Oprah, Obama-nation, or Biden.
Just be aware, if these jokers stay in power, we may not have another free election!
lIZ

Amen MD
That was a great post. Human life begins at conception because without conception there is no life. The rest is not opinion, but personal wishes. Why would any honest decent person allow one's preference aka convenience supercede the life of a human being. In any other situation it's called murder. Obama is just another debased opponent of truth. An empty suit with an " enlightened " education.

Born Alive
The central issue of this election is abortion and the only meaningful question for the candidates is: At what point in the development of a human fetus must the fetus be considered to be alive? Obama and Pelosi and their minions have deluded themselves into thinking that the answer to this question is a matter of opinion. It is NOT a matter of opinion, no matter how many semantic contortions they perform: The sperm and the egg are both very much alive although they have a limited life span (hours to days) if they do not engage in fertilization. These two living things joining together in fertilization results in a LIVING fetal human being. To deliberately kill this fetal human being is murder. No mother should be encouraged to commit the act of madness involved in murdering her own child. Women who do this will have their lives changed forever for the worse - the mental Hell that they endure is solitary and intractable. I keep hearing, "It's the woman's body, she can do what she wants with it!" This is not true: if your are a pregnant woman you are performing the sacred and precious duty of LETTING ANOTHER human being live in your body for a period of time, as only a woman can do. Men cannot do this. If you are a woman you need to accept that the condition of pregnancy confers upon you unique moral responsibilities and you should welcome them. Obama and Pelosi are simply doing what they DO: Anything to preserve their block of abortion loving voters. They CARE NOTHING FOR WOMEN.

"White folks greed runs ...
a world in need"...

so says ...

Barack Hussein Obama.

http://www.bornalivetruth.com/
Help Gianna tell her story.

Obama Attack on McCain About Infanticide
Obama, in accusing McCain of leveling the charge of infanticide,is attempting to exloit the basic decency of most Americans.

He is relying on people to give him the benefit of the doubt in this matter because they believe that allowing born alive infants to die is so base and evil.

However, the record proves that Obama has been lying about his vote which, in effect, permits infantcide.It is deception of the highest order for Obama to then turn the tables on McCain (who never even leveled the charge).

Obama wants to turn attention away from the despicable nature of that vote by feigning outrage that anyone could ever accuse him of such a thing. Obama is counting on the goodwill of people to exonerate him on the basis that they simply cannot believe that another human could approve of infanticide.

What he has done is so abhorrently deplorable, and yet now he falsely points fingers of accusation. His hero, Saul Alinsky, dedicated a book to Lucifer. In the mind of Alinsky, Lucifer was the ultimate radical. However, the Bible reveals that Lucifer (Satan) is the ultimate deceiver.

In matters of deception,Obama has learned his lessons very well.







Barack Hussein Obama
A George Soros puppet

Polly
You make a issue on money funded for a bridge when something greater is at stake. And that if the abortion issue.
The Democrats have wasted money as well, so don't there.
It's obvious that you haven't got even a hint of Christian morals. If you did, as a Christan you would not support such a vile man as Obama. And if you say you are a Christian, I beg to differ. You have no knowledge other than what you receive from man. Humanists and not Christian.
Perhaps you are something other than a Christian. Athesist perhaps. Wicka or Satanist perhaps. But the day will come will you and so many others will stand for judgment and make an account of yourself.

Doc
Dam son, you beat me to it! I was going to ask Wobbie Wamjet if it was A dis-ability check for not being able to predict!!!
It makes sense that him and Daft are buddies though. One can't think straight and one can't read straight. HE,HE,HE. But they CAN ride the Wal-Mart special together not straight!

Obama hates the US as it is...
He wants to turn the US into what Saul Alinsky thought America should be.

The radical, Saul Alinsky left, hate Sarah Palin because she believes in God, she loves her children, she loves her country as it is. Her principles and values flow out of middle, small town America ... the country Rev. Wrights says is the US of KKKA. The same small town US of KKKA, Obama's pastor, the honorable racist, Rev. Wright, selected to build his multi-million dollar retirement mansion, on a golf course with white racist as his neigbhors.

The attacks on Gov. Sarah Palin by the many fellow travelers of Barack Obama suggest a hatred of America and a hatred of the ordinary American, who Obama wants to lead.

To the liberal, radical left, Saul Alinsky mentored, Sarah Palin, is a symbol of middle class, "Joe Lunch Bucket" America. They don't hate Sarah Palin, per se, Obama backers hate the country her values and principles represent.

It is not Sarah Palin that Obama and his backers are attacking without mercy or human decency, they are attacking everything we as simple, honest, pure, trusting, hopeful for the future, hardworking, American believe in.

Sarah Palin represents the country generations of Americans have shed blood to protect and defend.

If you aren't tearing down our country and screaming "only Obama can save us from ourselves ... Obama is our only hope" the Obama backing Saul Alinsky radical left hates and detest you.

This typical Obama supporter is a prediction of the values of an Obama-ized America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN6TDGOd3Y8

Hugheser
Prochoice or Infanticide

The other legislation Obama opposed was called the Induced Birth Infant Liability Act. SB1082 Illinois 93rd general assembly http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=1083 &GAID=3&DocTypeID=SB&LegId=3911&SessionID=3&GA=93
Synopsis As Introduced
Creates the Induced Birth Infant Liability Act and amends the State Finance Act. Provides that, if a child is born alive after an induced labor abortion or other abortion, a parent of the child or the public guardian may maintain an action on the child's behalf for damages, including costs of care to preserve and protect the life, health, and safety of the child, punitive damages, and costs and attorney's fees, against a hospital, health care facility, or health care provider who harms or neglects the child or fails to provide medical care to the child after the child's birth. Provides that damages shall be used to pay for the cost of preserving and protecting the life, health, and safety of the child. Provides that, if the child does not survive, the balance remaining after the costs of preserving and protecting the life, health, and safety of the child are paid shall be deposited into the Neonatal Care and Perinatal Hospice Fund, a special fund in the State treasury. Provides that the Fund shall be used by the Department of Public Health to make grants for neonatal care or perinatal hospice.
It says that a facility or health care provider that harms or neglects the child or fails to provide medical care to the child after the child’s birth can be sued. Actually, I don’t understand why there would not be criminal charges. After birth it is not a fetus, it is a child. Even the most ardent pro choice agrees with that.

If elected, Obama will have 4 or 8 years to appoint Federal judges who believe as he does that there are circumstances where you should let a baby die.
That is a very scary possibility.

I'm tired
I need a rest from the fight. Besides, rhetoric, pursuasive arguments make little difference. The heart needs to change. (I am a man, so you may dismiss this if you like.) Even after I became a Christian, over 25 years ago, I stubbornly decided to keep my own counsel when the pastor talked about abortion. I would make up my own mind. I was educated. I was working on a post grad degree. Abortion? That was his opinion. EVEN AS A BIBLE BELIEVING CHRISTIAN. But one night I had a dream. Yes, a dream. In the dream I saw a vision of a cardboard box full of dead babies - aborted babies. It was horrible. And while still asleep and dreaming I KNEW THAT THESE WERE MURDERED HUMAN BEINGS. I awoke sickened. No arguments can convince a hard heart. So, I ask you women who believe in abortion or aren't sure. When you are pregnant, and you try to know the truth, be quiet. Allow that still small voice to speak. Not in words. But in knowing. You will know that what is growing inside of you is a human being. But you need to listen. So many have heard and know and so many just ignore what they know. Listen. Just listen. You will know. You DO know. And you know that you know. Regardless of how you came upon it, or it came upon you, you have the most precious gift of all. The gift of life.

OBAMAS WHOLE LIFE A DISTORTION!!
THE RADICL-DEMS PICKED THIS DUDE A RADICAL-SOCIAL ORGANIZER.SAD! LOOK UP OBAMAS,FRIEND LOUIS FARACKKAN! HE IS A MUSLIM THAT SMILES AND SAYS HE MAY BE THE ONE,THE ONE TO WHAT???TO CHANGE AMERICA INTO A CASTRO-STYLE CUBA !!WAKE UP! HUSSEIN,OBAMA IS THE WRONG DUDE FOR USA!!!

A step towards a more perfect world
would be a requirement that all abortions take place at hospitals with neonatal resuscitation teams, who determine viability before the procedure and show the woman how if they waited just a few more weeks and proceeded with a term birth, how many people would love to take care of her baby. If she said no, she wants it out now, it is carefully delivered and cared for, and if it survives, once again given to a loving family. Unless there is no one willing to care for these children, what is the harm of keeping each and every one of them?
Oh, yeah. Planned Parenthood doesn't want pepople to plan to be parents through adoption of other women's unwanted babies. And liberals don't like our planet's scarce resources going to imperfect specimens.

Hugheser

Document why Barack Obama is NOT lying.

Would you accepts his own statement that HE mis-represented his position?

or

Would you still believe he did NOT?

Ron et al

I have decided to just ignore Taft. He is off the wall blinded by ideology and stupidity.

I rarely if ever read his posts as they are a waste of time.

If Barack Obama said grass was red, Taft would defend Obama and try and convince all of us that we are color blind.

I am convinced to most observing these posts and even those that post here they see Taft as a moron.

The scary thing is that Anne from VA has stated that Taft is some sort of educator. Anne is rarely wrong, but I hope she is wrong about Taft being a teacher.

Put up or shut up!
If these documents exist then put then up so everyone can see them. The media is just overwelmed with stupidity. They throw this stuff out there and then never back it up with documents. Note to media: please get back to the why,who,where,when and how.

I am reconsidering my stand on abortion
Taft...should have been aborted :)

Anne
Mui-tasking Meaning she was chomping on 3 or 4 cheetos at a time. Don't be a piggy, Anne!

For the Christian the choice is clear, the peace maker or the war monger.

the governor (Pilot) or the community organizer (Jesus)

The dad who ran off on his family, or the dad who stayed home.

BUT, MOST OF ALL...THE ONE WHO DIDN'T INVENT WORTHLESS LIES ABOUT KILLING BABIES!

Palin, to keep score is now has lied 12 times about the bridge.

Let's try our hardest to keep the Republic.

Response to Umberto
Your post:

"Educated Vote
If you were a terrorist, who would you vote for ?

Umberto Mafiol
Miami, Florida"

I heard from a local Christian radio talk show host that he found a quote from the president of Iran stating he supports Obama and Biden, claiming them to be intelligent, and claiming the opposite of McCain and Palin. I'm sure Al-Jezeera has aired this all over the muslim world. Seems like they keep their citizens from the real story...just like...oh I dunno...most US networks.

Anne

Carlos is always saying things I wish I had thought of.

Questions to all?

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set," Barack Obama

What will this Obama force be asked to do?

I have read virtually everything that Obama has witten including the Obama website and transcripts of the Obama speeches.

I have NO IDEA what Obama means when he states "Security Objectives we have set" - who is we? and what are the objectives?

"We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded." Barack Obama

Why does this Obama civilian security force need to be as powerful as the military?

Carlos: Excellent! Well said!

I'm impressed! (Which means I wish I'd had thought about saying that!) :-)


About the Chicago Machine! Yesterday...

while multi-tasking three or four things, I heard a guest, and I didn't get his name, on talk radio, who shared that not only was Bill Ayers a radical, but this goes back to his father, TOM AYERS.

I've been doing some research, but it might be worthwhile if a lot of us do some research on TOM AYERS.


There might be some interesting and pertinent information....

Single issue voter
I have never been a single issue voter-until this year. Disgusting.

McCain/Palin 08

Retired Geek... Right on!

The next President will also 'inherit' millions of foreclosed homes. McCain will let the Free Market absorb them and wash the Governments hands of this nonsense.

Barry Obama (aka The Marxist) will take control of these homes... Give them to the home-invaders he pardons from prison, and create hundreds of Marxist Obamavilles across America.

The Dominoes are falling, eh?

Rand Lamberth et al

The American citizen does NOT think this kind of thing could happen to America.

If there is a Democratic landslide with Barack Obama as POTUS - the liberals will have a filibuster proof Congress for only the second time in history.

Whether Barack Obama wins or NOT, this election will change America forever.

Most Americans say, we cannot be defeated, how will an Army install a dictator or Marxist government?

Well, the answer is in the ballot box NOT an outside force.

Listen to this Obama plan.

"We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set," he said.

"We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded."
Barack Obama Speech July 2, 2008 Colorado Springs CO



Babies, what a burden on doctors.
Just terrible!

Communisim cannot succeed w/o Socialism
"I want to caution that our efforts to build the party, YCL (Young Communist League) and press have to be coupled with similar efforts to build the movement to defeat McCain and congressional Republicans.

Our unique role is to organically combine practical and ideological work within the framework of our strategic policy and goals.

Neither one nor the other by itself constitutes a communist style of work, although I would add this caveat: our involvement in the struggles and issues that are roiling masses of people is the ground floor of communist politics.

The next nine months are a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. We have to act on that basis and convey that same message to everyone we meet. When the New Year rolls around, it is easy to visualize that the monkey of right-wing extremism will be off the backs of the American people and people around the world, that a movement of enormous proportions will have taken shape, and that the balance of power in our nation’s capital has shifted qualitatively.

If this is the case — and I think it will be — besides ringing the year in with a glass of champagne or a stein of ale or a shot of whiskey, we can turn our attention to translating an historic landslide victory into a people’s legislative agenda."

Sam Webb National Chairman
Communist Party Usa

FOCA
Retired Geek writes:

"Barack Obama wants a Federal law - FOCA to strip any state rights about abortion. Obama is way ahead of state rights."

That kind of puts the lie to Ubumya's lame protestations that he opposed BAIPA because he was afraid it would "undermine Roe vs. Wade", doesn't it, RG?

After all, if all he has to do is get a federal law passed that would make it impossible for any state to restrict abortion in any way, shape, manner or form, why should Ubumya care whether Roe vs. Wade stands or falls?

Roe vs. Wade is the current legal foundation of the pro-abortion edifice; and it's a foundation of sand.

Liberals = Socialism in America

Liberals are adept at using stealth techniques to embed their brand of Socialism in America without arousing serious opposition or alarm.

Liberals or Democrats have penetrated the vital organs in America, the MSM, Government Agencies, Unions, Educational Systems and are patiently guiding America into Socialism.
Marxists and the Communist Party USA are applauding their efforts and are calling for a complete Democrat sweep in the election with Barack Obama as POTUS.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"...At the center of our election policy is keeping the fire on the ultra-right, John McCain and the Republicans in order to defeat them overwhelmingly..."


"...The purpose of this report is to discuss how we contribute to the remarkable movement growing in our country, how we can help build the unity needed to defeat the ultra-right with a landslide vote, and how we can build the movement and the Communist Party and YCL (Young Communist League) to achieve bold and sweeping gains in the post-election period...''"

A Labor and People's Landslide is Necessary and Possible
Author: Joelle Fishman, Chair, Political Action Committee, Communist Party USA
First published 04/10/2008 16:31

Ubumya's Socialism--Part III
(The online article at IBD continues):

"His new New Deal also guarantees a 'living wage,' with a $10 minimum wage indexed to inflation; and 'fair trade' and 'fair labor practices,' with breaks for 'patriot employers' who cow-tow to unions, and sticks for 'nonpatriot' companies that don't.

"That's just for starters — first-term stuff.

"Obama doesn't stop with socialized health care. He wants to socialize your entire human resources department — from payrolls to pensions. His social-microengineering even extends to mandating all employers provide seven paid sick days per year to salary and hourly workers alike.

"You can see why Obama was ranked, hands-down, the most liberal member of the Senate by the National Journal. Some, including colleague and presidential challenger John McCain, think he's the most liberal member in Congress.

"But could he really be 'more left,' as McCain recently remarked, than self-described socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders (for whom Obama has openly campaigned, even making a special trip to Vermont to rally voters)?

"Obama's voting record, going back to his days in the Illinois statehouse, says yes. His career path — and those who guided it — leads to the same unsettling conclusion."


Ubumya's Socialism--Part II
(More from Investors' Business Daily):

"In his latest memoir he shares that he'd like to 'recast' the welfare net that FDR and LBJ cast while rolling back what he derisively calls the 'winner-take-all' market economy that Ronald Reagan reignited (with record gains in living standards for all).

"Obama also talks about 'restoring fairness to the economy,' code for soaking the 'rich' — a segment of society he fails to understand that includes mom-and-pop businesses filing individual tax returns.

"It's clear from a close reading of his two books that he's a firm believer in class envy. He assumes the economy is a fixed pie, whereby the successful only get rich at the expense of the poor.

"Following this discredited Marxist model, he believes government must step in and redistribute pieces of the pie. That requires massive transfers of wealth through government taxing and spending, a return to the entitlement days of old.

"Of course, Obama is too smart to try to smuggle such hoary collectivist garbage through the front door. He's disguising the wealth transfers as 'investments' — 'to make America more competitive,' he says, or 'that give us a fighting chance,' whatever that means.

"Among his proposed 'investments':

• 'Universal, 'guaranteed' health care.

• 'Free' college tuition.

• 'Universal national service' (a la Havana).

• 'Universal 401(k)s' (in which the government would match contributions made by 'low- and moderate-income families').

• 'Free' job training (even for criminals).

• 'Wage insurance' (to supplement dislocated union workers' old income levels).

• 'Free' child care and 'universal' preschool.

• More subsidized public housing.

• A fatter earned income tax credit for 'working poor.'

• And even a Global Poverty Act that amounts to a Marshall Plan for the Third World, first and foremost Africa."

(More to come)


To Danny from a Fellow Kansan
If you need any evidence that Barack Hussein Muhammad Ubumya is a committed socialist, here it is.

From Investors' Business Daily:

"Before friendly audiences, Barack Obama speaks passionately about something called "economic justice." He uses the term obliquely, though, speaking in code — socialist code.

"During his NAACP speech earlier this month, Sen. Obama repeated the term at least four times. 'I've been working my entire adult life to help build an America where economic justice is being served,' he said at the group's 99th annual convention in Cincinnati.

"And as president, 'we'll ensure that economic justice is served,' he asserted. 'That's what this election is about.' Obama never spelled out the meaning of the term, but he didn't have to. His audience knew what he meant, judging from its thumping approval.

"It's the rest of the public that remains in the dark, which is why we're launching this special educational series.

"'Economic justice' simply means punishing the successful and redistributing their wealth by government fiat. It's a euphemism for socialism.

"In the past, such rhetoric was just that — rhetoric. But Obama's positioning himself with alarming stealth to put that rhetoric into action on a scale not seen since the birth of the welfare state."

(To be continued)

wobbie spews:
heck you finally have one. Good to see you on the employment rolls..now pay taxes so I can collect my salary!

What he meant to say folks was his welfare check, IF he is old enough to do so. What a twit.

LMAO hic! (not used with seatbuffers or permission, because I will NEVER ask for it!)

God, Guts and Guns made America free! Let’s keep all three!
McCain/Palin 08!

Palin/Jindal in 2012!

Biden shoots Obambi in the foot.
What The Dem VP pick has to say about Obambi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R20pQK5KO2E

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Rand Lamberth et al

Barack Obama wants a Federal law - FOCA to strip any state rights about abortion. Obama is way ahead of state rights.

See my earlier post on FOCA.

Obama first act as President FOCA

"The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act."
Barack Obama, July, 2008 Speech at Planned Parenthood Conference

What is FOCA or Freedom of Choice Act?

The Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) is legislation Obama has co-sponsored along with 18 other senators that would annihilate every single state law limiting or regulating abortion, including the federal ban on partial birth abortion and the Federal BAIPA law.

Besides making abortion on demand a 'fundamental right' throughout the United States, FOCA would effectively nullify informed consent laws, waiting periods, health safety regulations for abortion clinics, etc.

Furthermore, medical professionals and institutions that refused abortions also would lose legal protections. FOCA would expose individuals, organizations, and governments - including federal, state, and local government agencies - to costly civil actions for purported violations of the act.

'I am absolutely convinced that culture wars are so nineties; their days are growing dark, it is time to turn the page,' Obama said in July. 'We want a new day here in America. We're tired about arguing about the same ole' stuff. And I am convinced we can win that argument.'



Not Exactly
Robert, MI, writes:

"In order for abortion to be illegal, Roe vs. Wade would need to be overturned."

Overturning Roe vs. Wade would NOT by itself make abortion illegal, Robert.

All it would do is remove the current--and unconstitutional--judicial impediment to the fifty individual states legislating as they see fit on the issue of abortion, which was the case before the USSC rendered its erroneous decision in the Roe case.

In brief, overturning Roe vs. Wade would give the abortion issue back to the people to decide through their state legislatures, which is the way it SHOULD be.

The pro-abortion feminazis know full well that unrestricted abortion on demand is a losing issue, so the absolute LAST thing they want is an open up-or-down vote on it. Consequently, they did an end run around the democratic process and ran to the courts. There, they found a misguided cadre of "jurists"--led by Harry Blackmun--who saw fit to create constitutional law almost literally out of thin air; hence the Roe vs. Wade decision.

That decision should be overturned solely because it's bad constitutional law; irrespective of your opinion on abortion per se. Roe vs. Wade is an example of American jurisprudence at its absolute worst.

Amanda writes:
a woman’s right to choose.

I get tired of hearing this crap.
How about this for a choice, NOT TOO GET PREGNANT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Once you do, it is a child, it is no longer a choice.

God, Guts and Guns made America free! Let’s keep all three!
McCain/Palin 08!

Palin/Jindal in 2012!

Biden shoots Obambi in the foot.
What The Dem VP pick has to say about Obambi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R20pQK5KO2E

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

The irony of it all
Doesn't anyone see the irony here? About 150 years ago, people like Obama were not considered human beings but the property of "real" human beings. Now Obama exercises proerty rights over the most helpless of all human beings.

Communists want Democrats + Obama

Under 'Pure Communism' no one can register or just say they are a Communist. They must be declared a Communist by the State.

Until one is declared a Communist they have NO human rights - they are considered sub-human.

Over 100,000,000 have been starved, tortured or simply killed - under Communist regimes - because they were NOT declared a member of the Communist party.
------------------------------------------------
"...At the center of our election policy is keeping the fire on the ultra-right, John McCain and the Republicans in order to defeat them overwhelmingly..."

A Labor and People's Landslide is Necessary and Possible
Author: Joelle Fishman, Chair, Political Action Committee, Communist Party USA
First published 04/10/2008 16:31


Obama Marxist Background

A Marxist believes that personality and human value are imparted by the external and economic environment, not by any inherent spiritual value, or even by biological processes.

The fetus, according to a Marxist, becomes a person when he is judged as such by “someone of higher wisdom.”

The humanity of the fetus depends upon how the mother perceives the “social relationship” that exists between them. If the mother desires to keep the baby, then she “fantasizes” it into becoming a human being. But, if she does not want the pregnancy, “it is something else entirely. Her opinion of the fetus thereby denies it of personhood.

“Biological processes,” says Albury, “do not carry automatic moral values as the Right to Life suggests … Human economic, social, and political relationships create moral values.”

According to Albury, “Material conditions of life change, and so do moral values.” This means that, to a Marxist, the unborn baby may be a human being for a time, but may then become depersonified and rendered ‘pre-human,’ all because his or her mother began to think differently about him or her. She adds: “Certainly, many women experience mixed feelings; the fantasy baby may even appear for a while. Women can tell it goodbye forever.”

Rebecca Albury, Austrailian Communist

Obama against state rights

Transporting Minors Across State Lines to Obtain Abortions.

While serving in the United States Senate, Obama voted against the Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act (S.403), a bill designed to prevent minors from being taken across state lines without the consent of the parents to have an abortion in circumvention of the laws of 45 states which require parental consent or notification in order for a minor to have an abortion.

-Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act (S.403); vote number 2006-216 on July 25, 2006

Just Let Them Try
DanNV observes:

"He has now issued marching orders to his minions to 'get in our face'"

Any Ubumya "minion" who tries to "get in MY face" is going to get MY fist in HIS!

Chicago Political Machine
Dear Amanda, Please write an essay on the power of the Chicago political machine that is partly behind all this fanfare about B. Hussein. What does the Chicago political machine plan on getting if (gasp) B. Hussein is elected president?
Signed, Typical White Person in Bayou Country

Obama's 1995 community crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Chicago_heat_wave

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/443213in.html

I'd like to know what the heroic community organizer, Barack Hussein Obama, student of Saul Alinsky, who was a political tactics student of Lucifer, was doing in Chicago during the summer of 1995? Several hundred black seniors died from the heat of that summer while President Clinton, the first black president, golfed on segregated golf courses.

What did Barack and Michelle Obama do for his community during this 1995 Chicago crisis that surpassed Hurricane Katrina in deaths?

I'll Tell You Where They Are!
John from California asks:

"Where are the hard-hitting investigative reporters?"

I'll tell you where they are, John.

They're all in Alaska trying to dig up--and since they can't find any, MAKE UP--dirt on Sarah Palin.

That's where the "hard-hitting investigative reporters" are.

OBAMA'S CONNECTION TO CORRUPTION?
Obama was in charge of the committee in the Illinois Senate who pushed through the
legislation that resulted in the? Illinois Health Facilities Planning Act which turned out to be a way to loot the Illinois Teacher's Retirement fund .
On May 31, 2003, Senate Bill 1332 passed and specified that the ““Board shall be appointed by the Governor, with the advice and consent of the Senate." The legislation reduced the number of members from 15 to 9, paving the way for the appointment of a five-bloc majority to rig the votes giving the control of the Illinois Teacher's Retirement Fund to 9 individuals The corrupt members who were appointed included three doctors who contributed to Obama. Michel Malek gave Obama $10,000 on June 30, 2003 and donated $25,000 to Governor Blagojevich on July 25, 2003. Malek also gave Obama another $500 in September 2003.
Fortunee Massuda donated $25,000 to Blagojevich on July 25, 2003, and gave a total
of $2,000 to Obama on different dates. After he was appointed, Dr Imad Almanaseer
contributed a total of $3,000 to Obama. Almanaseer did not give money to Blagojevich.

When the first pay-to-play scheme was put in play, and the application for approval of a
new hospital was submitted, even
though experts said the hospital was not needed the application was approved. Money for the hospital was suppose to come from the Teacher’s Retirement Funds and I presume the builder
would be contractors which Obama had represented or other contractors connected to
the Chicago Outfit. Chicago Outfit being Chicago's governor, senator, mayor or any
elected official that might be involved in a this Pay to Play scheme)

Rezko is now in jail for his involvement in this Pay for Play scheme. What about the Governor and Senator Obama ?

Obama Proves Himself a Murderer
Truth is Obama's support for abortion makes him a murderer. His vote to in effect legalize infanticide proves his true character.

Obama and his wife both support, defend and condone Planned parenthood's Project Negro. Project Negro targets African american mothers for abortions to achieve what white, liberal Left racists call a 'sustainable population'.

Obama deserves our prayers because he is not a Christian. His support for abortion is defacto rejection and hatred of Jesus Christ.

he can't run away anymore
Obama is now thrashing like a dog with tin cans tied to his tail;

. . . over publication of the downright inhuman things he stands for. He can't hide it anymore.

It's weeks before our nation votes and the fight's going to escalate into Obama's Waterloo. He can't recover.

Add to that scenario the glaring reality now exposed for the voters; Joe Biden was flatly told by bishops of the Catholic Church NOT to present himself anymore for Holy Communion. Joe's now stirring up every practicing Catholic in the land to REGISTER and VOTE AGAINST the Democrats in November! The Church has spoken, there's NO excuse these Bozos can make at ALL, for being in the pocket of the abortion lobby. --Not as CATHOLICS, JOE!

Dove-tailing so sweetly in this election cycle is the sudden rise of Sarah Palin. A mother of FIVE, count 'em; a fabulous, Pro-Life Republican. Not run-of-the-mill GOP--

A DC outsider with unlimited political potential! Obama's NEMESIS; Holy Moose Country, Batman!!! Get outta her way!!! Lol!

Renny: Sorry, meant "reverse" Roe v Wade
.

renny:Yup! The only way he could get bac

on TH...

But not to worry, ALL of the poor fool's posts will be pulled first thing Mon. morning... as they do daily during the week. :-)

And, if McCain/Palin are in office, there is a VERY GOOD chance the Supreme Court will be a Conservative majority, and they may VERY WELL revoke Roe v Wade.

Even Chief Justice Warren Burger wrote, before he retired, that he was having second thoughts, and grave misgivings about Roe v Wade.

Thank you, Amanda...
...for not letting this issue die the death the MSM would like to it die - like Obama and the innocent survivors of the Infant Holocaust.

You are my heroine and a person I have great respect for.

Wake Up America!
Obama is more than happy to cheat, lie, steal other people's money and intimidate like the vilest Black Panther/Weatherman. He deserves less consideration than the death he pronounces on the innocent babies who survive abortions.

After doing my own research on this the past few weeks, I saw without a doubt that this man is worse than I ever thought a human can be.

What a calamity if Obama were to ever win another election.

Ranger can't read ...
or else he would have realized by now that this isn't a DEBATE to overturn or do anything about Roe v Wade - it is not EVEN a DEBATE about Abortion. Instead it IS about alive, born - no longer inside of the uterus - human beings - BABIES.

It is about NOT ALLOWING born babies to die under the veil of "ABORTION" because abortion is DEFINED as the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus - thus they are UNBORN - not BORN ALIVE!!!

You are NOT going to be able to argue this an an abortion right - it just is NOT!!!

Ranger can't read...
or else he would have realized by now that this isn't a DEBATE to overturn or do anything about Roe v Wade - it is not EVEN a DEBATE about Abortion. Instead it IS about alive, born - no longer inside of the uterus - human beings - BABIES.

It is about NOT ALLOWING born babies to die under the veil of "ABORTION" because abortion is DEFINED as the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus - thus they are UNBORN - not BORN ALIVE!!!

You are NOT going to be able to argue this an an abortion right - it just is NOT!!!

Did Robert have to
change his name to Ranger?

This thread proves the abortion issue is neither settled nor dead, and I am a Giuliani supporter, and not of the really far right.

But I know right from wrong--and killing born alive babies is wrong no matter what the circumstances. The Big O lied about his vote and forgot to vote his usual present when it came to life and death.

He's a deathmonger, US troop betrayer, Marxist taxer, and after this election, will never be heard from again.

Ronald
I'm sure Obama would have no problem "forcing" his daughters to abort his grandchildren. It's seldom the woman's choice.

Obama as a Father
Obama and Michelle's little girls can also figure out easily if daddy doesn't want us to be punished by having a baby before marriage or one we don't want it is okay to abort the baby.

Born Alive Act
On a local Christian talk show yesterday this is what I heard "Bob" say about the Act when questioned by the host. "Do you care if the born alive baby of an abortion is protected?" Bob, responded "No I DON'T, I don't care!" How sick, distorted, and lost in extreme darkness is Bob. What should concern us all...is this is the BASE of the Democratic party...hands down. To check the conversation between host and "Bob" go to http://www.wildershow.com.

CBS is bragging its 60 Minutes
interview with the Big O will set records for hard-hitting journalism. Pardon, while I wretch.

Write to 60m@cbsnews.com and ask if they dared question O about is votes on assisting live babies who survived abortion. I just did. I don't expect a reply.

I'm sure not, and if they did, they'd edit the tape in his favor.

60 M is the wonderful MSM org. that kept Clinton in the race after he lost N. Hampshire in 72, because producer Ron Hewitt bragged he edited the tape to make the Clintons appealing.

There's real *news* for you.

Change of command: Walmart has a new mgr


HA HA HA

Sorry, couldn't resist. :-) That was just too funny...




Anne from VA et al

I must leave for my volunteer duty with the 'Homebound' glad you are here.

Mrs. Paddy: daft doesn't own a compass!
.

jax33:Yup! I'd say 4,000 abortions a day

pretty much counts as mass murder!

I don't think even Idi Amin managed to kill that many people in a day in Uganda.

Rebecca great post!

I am sure you will be a great mother.

I pray that you and baby have a long and fruitful life.

God protect you and baby!

And whoever the IDIOT was who said

that nobody really cares about abortion these days is a flaming, out of touch, fool!

NObama's a Baby Killer
Where are the sixties radicals when you need the losers? I wouldn't mind if they rallied against Nobama and expelled saliva onto that real babykiller.

liberals
Equals mass murderers

WHAT PART OF "The Obama campaign admitt

to the New York Sun that Obama misrepresented his position when he told CBN that the federal version he says he supports, 'was not the bill that was presented at the state level.'

"The campaign acknowledged Obama had voted against an identical bill in the Illinois Senate, but then said Obama was worried that even as worded, the legislation might have undermined existing Illinois abortion law. "

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND????

Now, Marxist Obama, probably THE SINGLE BIGGEST LAIR in politics today (and THAT'S saying a LOT!) continues to lie and dodge the point!!!!