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Monday, August 18, 2008
Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama Calls Pro-Lifers Liars
by Amanda Carpenter
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Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is harshly accusing a pro-life group of "lying" about his record on abortion as a Illinois state senator, despite compelling evidence on the pro-lifers' side.

Obama made the aggressive attack when Christian Broadcasting Network Senior National Correspondent David Brody asked Obama about documentation the National Right to Life Committee recently obtained of a 2003 committee vote on “born alive” legislation that would have required medical officials to give life-saving care to babies who survived abortion.

Obama has said again and again he voted against versions of that bill as an Illinois state senator because it did not include language to protect Roe v. Wade, as the federal version did which sailed through the U.S. Senate 98-0. The committee report, however, shows a 10-0 vote in favor of an amendment to add the same language to protect abortion rights that was added to the federal bill. That same committee report subsequently shows Obama voting the kill the bill in a "final action" vote.

The committee report is also verified by an Associated Press story.

“There was some literature put out by the National Right to Life Committee,” Brody told Obama in an interview that took place Saturday night. “And they’re basically saying they felt like you misrepresented your position on that bill.”

Obama said the NRLC “have not been telling the truth” and launched into some of the most vicious language he’s ever used against his opponents. “And I hate to say that people are lying, but here's a situation where folks are lying,” he lectured.

“It defies common sense and it defies imagination and for people to keep on pushing this is offensive and it's an example of the kind of politics that we have to get beyond,” Obama said. “It's one thing for people to disagree with me about the issue of choice; it's another thing for people to out and out misrepresent my positions repeatedly, even after they know that they're wrong. And that's what's been happening.”

Brody published a video of the interview on CBN.

Douglas Johnson, NRLC’s legislative director wants Obama to apologize to his group or prove the documents they obtained are erroneous. Obama must “either declare the newly discovered documents to be forgeries and call for an investigation of the forgery, or admit that he had misrepresented his record on the live-born infants legislation (not just once, but for four years), and apologize to those he's called liars," Johnson told Townhall in an email.

“We don't have an apology yet,” Johnson said.

An Obama spokeswoman, Hari Sevugan, grudgingly admitted Obama had indeed voted against the bill in committee to the New York Sun Monday. She said Obama voted against it because he wasn't convinced the bill would not be used to undermine abortion rights in the state of Illinois.

Johnson said brushed off Sevugan's explanation. "The newest line is also not consistent with Obama's oft-stated excuse for opposing the state legislation, and fails to explain his four years of misrepresentation," he said. "Nor does the Sun story indicate that the Obama campaign has issued any apology to NRLC, Bill Bennett, or the others who Senator Obama and his campaign have been calling liars for saying what they now admit was the truth."

Like the NRLC, conservative radio host Bill Bennett was attacked by the Obama campaign earlier this year for discussing Obama's record on born alive legislation.

Pro-lifers believe Obama’s 2003 vote would surely hurt him among social conservatives and evangelicals who may consider supporting him in November. Family Research Council President Tony Perkins said “there's no doubt” Obama supported “infanticide” by voting this bill down in committee.

“This is a radical position,” he told a small group of reporters at FRC's Washington headquarters.

Perkins joined the NRLC in calling on Obama to apologize to voters for "his misleading statements on life," in a statement released Monday afternoon.

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About The Author
Amanda Carpenter is the author of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton,” published in October 2006.
 
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Obama must feel

he has been backed into a corner. He is trying to do everything possible to hide his anti-life beliefs.

Wrong way to deal with this
BO is taking the wrong approach. If the evidence is correctly pointing out his vote but his vote did not reflect his views, he should admit a mistake and move on. His brittleness in the face of legitimate concerns is as troubling as his vote. It shows an arrogance that will bring him down for sure.

Obama's problem
Obama's problem is that he can't ever admit that he made a mistake. It's just like that with all the other position changes that he made. He says he has been consistent all along in everything, even though his own record indicates otherwise. He thinks admitting to a mistake or change in position is going to derail his candidacy. This is really odd behavior for someone who is running on a "change" platform. It seems like he only wants to change others. When it comes to him, he can do no wrong. Even his answer to Pastor Warren about his greatest moral failing was an amorphous cloudy and ambiguous answer about his selfishness.

Unfortunately,
He's the Democratic Party nominee, which means that most Dems will vote for him even if he was discovered to be a mass murderer. It's the swing votes that matter here, people who lack bedrock convictions, but hopefully use their heads when they vote. The question is, in the light of Obama's rhetoric, are people like my brother who is a 9-12 Republican going to vote with their newfound recognition of the failure of liberalism or are they going to let the Golden One spin them in rhetorical circles? My brother doesn't like Obama much, mainly because Bro was in the same war McCain was and he thinks Obama doesn't have the jewels to command a nation that will be at war whether we withdraw from the Middle East or not. On the other hand, I know quite a few moderates who like Obama, mainly because they like the idea that a black president will "stop the race debate." Yeah, that's a good reason to elect some president.

This abortion issue is just one of many many issues where Obama has stayed to the hard left, but now that he's the party nominee and needs to reach moderates, he's trying to move to the right. Problem is, he can't hide his past and unlike McCain who has many years in Congress and many times shown that he will sometimes change his mind based upon changing conditions and information, Obama only has four years and his state record, all of which are easy to discover and publish. So, he's left with denying it and trying to make those who have uncovered this information look like liars. If their info is good, though, he's the one who will look like a liar. Even my brother, who is prochoice, doesn't like a candidate who openly lies and then accuses the truth-finders of the same.

Obama & Liars
Barack knows it looks like his only way to win is to select Hill as his VP. That must be the pits for him. Have to be propped up by a woman. A white one ,at that.

KING Liberal
No but this election will be decided on whether a person is truthful and can be trusted. There is overwhelming evidence showing that Obama can't be. You sit around and attack everything that is not ultraliberal. But as usual you have nothing to say. But just like all liberals your incredibly arrogance shows through. What's it like to be an arrogant no it all?

Ex-husband
Obama's arrogence is amazing. Kinda reminds me of my x when I caught him cheating.
Are you going to believe me or what you think you see ?
Obama has the same attitude. Are you going to believe me or what you think is my voting record ?
Liberals and the press are so in love with Obama they are blinded by the truth and what a dishonest loser this guy is.
Wake up and throw the bum out.

Obama strikes back... by lying (again)

PUBLIC DOCUMENTS contradict Obama's own words. Obama is a liar. And not only on abortion...

"I will filibuster FISA" - liar

"I will work with the Republican Nominee to pursue Public Campaign Finance" - liar

"I'm a Christian" - gee Obama - which branch of Christianity do you follow that so ardently supports abortion?

To King Liberal
This particular issue is not about pro-life vs. pro-choice. It's not even about whether or not this will make an ounce of difference on the outcome of the election. It's just about one man's arrogance and lies to cover up his own voting record. All Obama needs to say is that he either made a mistake when he looked at the proposed bill, or that he has now changed his mind about giving equal protection rights to babies that are born alive during an abortion procedure. But instead, Obama is now calling people liars when in fact he is the one that is lying. While I am against abortions, I will not stop a woman from doing what she thinks she needs to do. But I will certainly do all that I can to save a baby that is born alive, even if the mother wants the baby to die after the child is born alive. Anyone who wants a baby that is born alive to die is a sick person.

King Liberal
Don’t kid yourself about Obama’s stance on killing fully birthed babies, it is huge. This election will more than likely be decided by Democratic Catholics in places like Ohio and Pennsylvania. They will not vote for somebody who would not stand up for protecting babies. Why do you think Obama is striking back so aggressively on this issue?

Armanius
It's it's not so much his "mistakes" it's the lying of this habitual liar that keep catching up to him. His voting records are there for all to see. He just lies about them thinking people will believe his words over facts. And, of course, the brain dead Liberal Socialist could care less about his lying. They want this Marxist, Socialist pig in office no matter what! After all, he is a reflection of them!

Kimberly
Maybe you should be posting messages in the DailyKos where people don't discuss issues and instead hold pep rallies about how great it is to pay $4 for a gallon of gas. This article is not about choice vs. life. It's about the life and death of babies that are born ALIVE after a abortions. So the mother has already made her choice, and removed the baby from herself. The question is what to do with the baby that is still ALIVE in spite of the abortion. If you think that baby ought to be allowed to die, then you are a sick person just like your presidential candidate. If you think that this is just about politics, you obviously know nothing about motherhood.

Obama, The Liar
Has Obama colored his hair? Or did he worry so much in Hawaii about his candidacy that it grayed it?

Kimberly
Why is it that liberals can never stay on topic and always resort to personal attacks? Ms. Carpenter never mentioned the war and it really hurts our feelings when you call us liars. By the way, it is not only men who are against the wholesale slaughter of the unborn, my wife and two daughters are pro-life.

Obama calls pro-lifers liars.
ALL BELOW ARE JUST MY OPINIONS.
Really? He himself said, "Fatherhood begins at
conception." Is he calling himself a liar? Why did he hesitate, then hem/haw about science and theology when Rich Warren asked him when does life start? His answer should have been in his heart and mind already and the answer immediate.
He says he is a Christian. Maybe if those 20 years under Rev. Wright's teachings had included scriptures which state that "children are an inheritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is His reward; thou has covered me in my mother's womb..for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Thy hands have made me and fashioned me; My stubstance was not is hid from thee, when I was made in secret; and more. Maybe THEN, Obama's answer might have come from heart right off, instead of intellectualizing it.
I am NOT attacking any individual woman who has had an abortion. I'm only giving my opinions in the Pro-Life, Pro-Choice debate.
CHOICE; Any man/woman: #1 has the choice to date, and #2 the choice to have sex outside of marriage. #3 they have the choice of whether to use:No protecton, one form thereof, or use 2 kinds of protection: the pill & the condom (which even both MIGHT fail.) #4. The WOMAN has a choice, having become pregnant, to abort (which some use as a "too late, too little protection taken"), or to carry the baby to term and the choices of raising the child with love, or allowing it to be adopted (hopefully to loving, childless (one man, one woman) married couple.
The abominable practice of late term abortion where they incise the baby's head and suck the
brains out sounds like a German concentration camp procedure. The baby is viable, turned in the unnatural position of feet first, being just a few inches away from giving their first cry...then a painful death. Sickening, disgusting, and I believe is akin to premeditate murder, in my opinion.


King Liberal
As always, you have no concept of sticking to the issues being discussed. Surely you must have better things to do than to troll here. Did your buddies at the DailyKos kick ban you from the site because of your idiotic comments? Bumper stickers and catch phrases are what people like you enjoy quoting. Change, change, change. Yeah, right.

Obama calling NRLC liars...
is the pot calling the kettle black. I am a member of NRLC...the proof is there. The documentation is there. He is the liar. He voted to deny medical care to babies born live as a result of a botched abortion. He voted against the ban on partial birth abortions that became federal law. He equivocated on the question of when a baby receives human rights by stating the answer was above his pay grade. This question, however, becomes more about his inability to accept responsibility for his own words and deeds. He did vote the way NRLC says. That is documented and he cannot refute those votes. He gets himself entrenched in a position, regardless of the facts that surface. That is not a good quality for a presidential candidate.

As usual, Amanda nails it
Yet again Obama has been caught in an outright lie. Once again, Obama blames someone else for his positions. Once again the truth becomes a lie. Once again Obama's press secretaries ignore or downplay his lies. Obama did vote to kill the bill, I've seen the record and the transcripts. The truth is that Obama is so pro-choice that when he was listening to the testomony of nurses who witnessed and were forced to watch helpless infants take their last breaths only moments after taking their first breaths, he barely blinked. There was no remorse and no emotion on his part. I'll stop just short of saying Obama is heartless and I will say that Obama simply is guilty of conspiracy to commit the murder of innocent children who happened to survive the initial attempts to murder them. I'll also say that Barack Hussein Obama is a flat out liar in just about everything he says and I think he should be removed as Democrat nominee for the presidency. I'd rather run against Hillary who is completely wrong but at least honest.

hey, king liberal
First state the facts, then give your opinion. If you are pro-choice, fine. But don't misrepresent the facts to support your opinion.

pot calling the kettle black..

Again..

B.O. the Hypocrit, is a proven Liar on this issue. Still, he and his fellow travelers adhere to the philosophy of a lie told to the masses often enough will soon be believed.

No to Obama!
Do these look like 18+ million democrats that are going to vote for Senator Barack Obama?

Hillary Clinton Supporters For John McCain:
http://www.hcsfjm.com

Party Unity My A$$ PAC/People United Means Action PAC:
http://blog.pumapac.org

Democrats Against Obama/Nobama ever!
http://democrats-against-obama.org

Just Say No Deal:
http://justsaynodeal.com

Take a look around these sites for a half hour or 45 minutes and then you decide....(there are hundreds more linked to these, just look for links)

ex-WY-ite @ 12:03 wrote
"Bambi is never going to survive the election without imploding".

Are you sure he'll last THAT long (until AFTER the election)?

king liberal: The point is Karl ROVE is
history..

but you DEM-A**es still want his head

Your REPRESETNATION in CONGRESS didn't do its job...

THEY DIDN'T END THE WAR..
IN FACT THEY VOTED FOR THE WAR!

AND

THEY DIDN'T GET BUSH OR KARL ROVE...

SO THERE!

YOU MASSES OF LIBERAL A**ES HAVE PROVEN THAT YOU ARE THE BIGgEST FOOLS

ON EARTH

AND THEN ...

TO TOP IT OFF...

HOWARD DEAN AND COMPANY SOLD YOU

OBAMBIE AS YOUR messiah.

So take your research and shove it where the sun don't shine .... meathead!

OBAMBIE IS GOING DOWN...

HE'LL PROBABLY HAVE TO PICK HILLARY FOR VEEP NOW..

IF SHE'LL EVEN TAKE THE PAYGRADE! HA! HA!

Even his lie is evil
The notion that it is somehow OK to vote against a law protecting newborn survivors of botched abortions because it would somehow be used to justify overturning Roe V Wade is evil.

Whether or not to give critical, life-saving treatment to a newborn should not be weighed against your political objectives, period.

Obambie probably....
didn't even know what was in the bill. He was doing what he thought NARAL and planned Parenthood would like him to do.

OBAMBIE fought against the bill for one reason:

MONEY...

His biggest supporters are NARAL and Planned Parenthood

and they were/are kicking money his way.

That's why he did what he did!

No need to Swiftboat...obama's a dingy

The more Obama cries "foul" about claims against his voting record on abortion - the MORE the MSM will be forced into revealing the truth.

Just like the John Edwards story... THIS story (Obama's voting on abortion) will only get bigger.

I've said it before ... and I'll say it again... THIS ISSUE (Born Alive Legislation - Obama opposing it) will be THE issue which sinks his campaign.

Killing babies might get you campaign donations from NARAL, Mr Obama, but NOT the votes of most Americans.

Regal Lion
You are so right!

Obama is such a puppet of the Left, and when his wifey isn't dictating what he should say, he sounds like a stammering fool!

I am still trying to figure out how she manipulates him by that one handle...

King Libster

I wonder why you are so upset about Karl Rove, when Obama has traitors for backers, like William Ayers and Bernadine Dorn.

I guess that, in your Bizarro World, working on a political campaign is evil, while bombing the Pentagon is worthy of praise.

Obama on Abortion
Obama is EVIL! I truly believe Obama should get a life prison sentance for KILLING 3 INNOCENT NEWBORN BABIES. Who out there would dare VOTE for this MURDERING THUG? Shame on anyone who even considers it. This man is as Anti-American as they come.

Kimberly
Are you out of your mind???

These are babies that were completely outside of the womb, living and breathing. Hearts beating. Able to open their eyes and see. Able to hear. If that isn't a human, I don't know what is.

And once again, it's not a woman's choice on what to do with her body, it's a choice on what to do with ANOTHER person's body. And for the record, it takes two people to make a child, so only half the child is actually the woman's if you want to get technical about it.

That and his voting records are available to the public to see. If he can't prove the records were falsified and tampered with, and even refuses to, then that is all the evidence you need that HE is the liar.


Right to Life + NRA
A pistol for every fertilized ovum. Republicanism of the 21st century. Don't forget not to let gays have civil unions, either. Obama is so scary, we are afraid for our country. He is a marxist or a commie or sumthin we don't trust. Oh ya, he's a muslim islamobad too.

King Lib...

You asked, "is tom ridge evil?"


Did Tom Ridge vote to withhold medical attention to babies surviving a botched abortion?

If so then yes, Tom Ridge is evil.


What's most interesting isn't Obama's hard-line support for NARAL and abortion rights.... it's his LYING that aggrevates the issue.

Think Bill Clinton and impeachment. (Not about sex... it's about LYING)

Here's a question for one of the debates
Sen. Obama. What could be more contemptable and inhuman than allowing a new born infant to die?

Jayhawk in aotearoa

Dems:

Kill unwanted babies and eliminate the death penalty for convicted murderers. Confiscate guns so only criminals carry them. Bush stole the election, planned 9/11, and lied about everything so he could go to war ... driving up oil prices just for his oil buddies. Let's force churches to perform gay marriages but God-forbid a child prays in school or is FORCED to repeat "under God" in the Pledge of Allegience!

Kimberly
you said: "The anti-choice crowd will stoop to any low to ensure a woman is denied a choice - even so low as to lump an unborn fetus into the same grouping as a living, breathing child in order to get their law passed".

What about 'partial birth abortion'?

At that point the "fetus" is fully capable of being a "living, breathing child", but the 'mother' still has a "choice" on whether the child can take that first breath?

Yep, we conservatives sure are heathens compared to you enlightned liberal "progressives".

It's a good thing you are not a Christian, I for one wouldn't enjoy trying your logical debate on Judgement Day.

king of the wrong side
Liberal wank wants McCain to choose Tom Ridge as the running VP.

Why?

To come back here and gloat? My opinion's not as juvenile as the cheap shot king's. Common sense indicates McCain won't shoot himself in the foot just when he has Obambi by the short hairs. Bridge and Mac are friends. But there are other important posts where he can serve. McCain likely has one already waiting for him. He will serve well.

Hate to have to disappoint you, Pretend King!


RE: Kimberly in CT
"The bottom line is this: The RW and the men who aim to commandeer the rights of women do NOT care about "life" - otherwise they would be against the war in Iraq and against a man like McSame."

Another ridiculous quote from a mentally disordered Liberal. So we don't care about life, but you say women should have the right to abortion. Exactly how do those two opposites work??? Woman (and Men) have many choices before having sex and ending up with a baby.
But this guy voted three times not to give medical help to a baby that survied "choice"...I mean an abortion. That is trully sick!

KL What the H? Does ProChoice Have to do
BO clearly voted in opposition to protecting a newborn person. Only in the deranged minds of yourself, Dim Kim and BO does this bill have any relationship to being pro choice! It might undermine a woman's right to chose? Pleeeeszz!

Only a morally bankrupt mind could come up with this utter nonsense, then again Mr & Mrs BO were contributing members of a church whose central theme was blacks are captives in an America designed to kill and imprison them. BO has had a lot of practice in the moral depravity!

Kimberly likes Kool Ade, Hmmm?


Every time this bimbo posts it's about her patented militant feminazi ideas. Mainly "choice."

Her own mother had no problem carrying this moonbat around 9 months; and never questioned whether or not she was a real baby. WHO corrupted you, Kimberly? Who initiated you in long swallows of Kool Aid?

Am I just suspicious, or--

DID YOU ABORT YOUR BABY ? No lies, now. Tell the truth!

Wow Kimberly
I had to read your last comment a couple times to make sure it wasn't sarcasm it was so bad. Women can't choose to have safe sex, no sex or something other than what can get them pregnant? Nobody cares about your "choosing" they care about the lump of cells sometimes referred to as human beings that you are carrying around. Obama's vote against the born alive act on the grounds that if they are alive after the abortion it could be used against them because people might think they were alive before the abortion is illustrative. Sometimes people support something they don't condone(ex: somebody who supports a woman's right to choose even though they would never get an abortion themselves), here Obama is condoning something that nobody could because of something he supports. Is this an indication of his openmindedness and how unifying he is? Yeah this is illustrative.

Kimberly
Speaking of getting your head wrapped around a fact:
Abortions kill babies.

You admitted as much by saying, "...the life that baby will live if brought to full term." Are you now the one to judge what quality of life is worth someone else living?

Wonder how many abortions would be performed if the baby had "choice" in the matter.

King Lib
OMG I'm so sorry to see that your from the same state that I am.Why on earth would you want to vote for a man that can't even keep his stance on issues for longer than a week at a time I want to vote for a man that if he does change his mind its because he finds out its best for our country not because someone in the party said well that just wont fly with the pollsters.Please just give it a rest already most of West Virginia saw thru Barry when he count bother to come meet people in the state of WV give me one issue that Barry hasn't changed his mind on just 1 come on you can do it.....ohh no guess you can't.

As to Mr. Obama...
...if he votes to have doctors keep babies alive after a botched abortion it means the baby was alive before the abortion was attempted.

Can't have that.

Also can't have people going around saying you voted against something that you voted against. Easy way out is to call them liars, give that a couple of weeks and if the dust still hasn't settled call them racists. That'll shut them up.

Intellectual Sham
Kimberly - the PRO-CHOICE label is a sham, and any honest person will admit it. You wave the pro-choice flag 24/7, but are never willing to discuss the reality of the choice. So for once, why don't you be honest? The issue is "choose what?" Warren Jeffs chose to have multiple teenage brides. Do you support his choices? Ted Bundy chose to rape and kill college coeds. Did you like his choices? EVERY time a woman chooses to have an abortion, a human life is taken. The sad fact is that modern liberals give more time, energy and support to animal rights (i.e., PETA) than to human rights.

Kimberly & "Choice"
Webster's definition of "choice": Choice consists of the mental process of thinking involved with the process of judging the merits of multiple "choices" and "choosing" one of them for action. (I know they use choice in their definition!)

A Liberals defintion of "Choice": Aborting an unborn baby!

Case closed!

King Liberal and Kimberly
Hey guys, let me guess... you bought your computer with food stamps and make spending money working for one of those phone chatting services like 1-800-FREE-LOVE. You spend $100 a week on lottery tickets, $200 a week on cigarettes, and $0 a week on feminine hygiene products.

Am I close?

The Truth Will Out - Always Does
No matter how long it takes those of us who truly do choose to believe Jesus is lord and savour know the day will come that the lies you told on behalf of the Father of Lies will have the light of truth shined on them and they will be shown for what they truly are. Abortion will be shown to be SO evil we will all tremble for having this "choice" to be the law of the land. Lord have mercy.

marvl
psst if kings spendin that much on smokes man he's being takin to the bank I can get marlboro's for 30 a carton here on the WV KY border lol

You must be King Liberal or Kimberly
if you believe that:

1) Sex is *always* forced upon the woman (she's dominated by her hormones, remember, so can't possibly be expected to make the choice not to engage in non-marital [today's woman is "more sophisticated" than to want or prefer marriage to mindless rutting, y'know] or at least unprotected sex), and

2) the opposite of "life" is "choice".

Lord help us all.



Obama's behavior of late...
is giving all of America just a tiny little taste of what he would be like as President. How many ways are there to spell "disaster?"

You want a man who denies his past behavior and voting record even though it can be undeniably proven and demonstrated? Vote for Obama. You want a man who staunchly refuses to admit either a mistake or a change of position? Vote for Obama.

You want an alleged Christian who supports abortion at any stage whatsoever of the pregnancy (and no real Christian would), vote for Obama.

You want a man who goes on vacation and stays on vacation in the wake of global warfare -- and then doesn't really even have an idea of where the David country (David and Goliath analogy) IS, vote for Obama.

Want a professional dodger who can't even make a simple guestimate of when life begins and instead resorts to a "beyond my pay grade" idiotic comment, vote for Obama.

Why oh why is American not being frightened off by this liar and fraudulent masquerader? An Obama presidency will be the single downfall of the American way of life. He isn't fit to be dog catcher, forget POTUS.

You must be a Liberal
if you believe as King Liberal and Kimberly do that:

1) Women don't have the intelligence to see that sex is never forced upon most of them, therefore, neither is the resulting baby.

2) Women can supposedly "do it all, and do it better than men" but somehow are completely helpless, incompetent and incapable when it comes to dealing with one of life's inevitable and wonderful challenges; the raising of a child.

3) the opposite of "life" is "choice".

4) The choices you do make will never eventually catch up to you.

My apologies if this posts in addition to a submission I made earlier. What's up with this website anyway?


King Lib...
You are wrong...show proof if you can that Karl Rove is working for the McCain campaign...Rove has repeatedly and emphatically stated to anyone asking that he is NOT now, nor has he ever been, working for the McCain campaign. I call you on that one, King Lib...you cannot state that as a fact without support. I'm getting tired of reading your baseless posts...you must truly be an Obamabot troll as others have surmised.

Robin, dreadnaught, everybody else,
I think that King Lib is not serious and is trying to jerk you around. I seem to recall him doing this in the past, in fact I think he's gotten me before. If I'm wrong than he's just another idiot liberal, which of course I realize is a redundancy.

dreadnaught
It's nice to see someone say they were for McCain before it was cool. Wait a minute.....

Actually I was for McCain since the beginning. That's the beauty of this site; you are allowed differing opinions as long as you aren't a troll.

Bad news for Democrats
The last thing the democrats want is an up down referendum on abortion, because they lose BIG. A majority of the country does not believe that the killing of unborn children is either moral or sane, let alone constitutional. Like so much of liberalism abortion was forced on this nation by a band of unelected lawyers in black robes who had to concoct a series of convoluted "interpretations" of the constitution in order implement their personal policy preference.
It will also not be good for Senator Doofus when more people find out about his zealotry in voting for killing babies who have survived abortion. In fact, the more that is made known of this man generally the less attractive he becomes, which by the way is the answer to the drive-bys' recent query as to why he is not running away with this election.

King Liberal
So far, you've told us that you're pro abortion, you don't like conservatives, and Karl Rove is a bad guy. But you haven't said a word about the subject of the article: the fact that Obama voted the way he did, then lied about why he voted that way. This tells me that either 1)you are too stupid to understand what the article is about, or 2)you're trying to divert attention from Obama's lies by changing the subject to your usual idiotic drivel. Either way, we're not buying it. Put up or shut up.

Flyfisher & Dreadnaught
Unlike ya'll I was vehemently opposed to Senator hothead before, during, and after the primary. His winning the primary was because of two equally pertinent factors: A)The drive-by media's drumbeat message that he was 'the only Republican who could beat Hillary' and B) The fact that he wanted it more than any of the other candidates. In the weeks and months that followed every time I tried to convince myself that he was worthy of my vote he would ruin it by insulting conservatives by condemning them for utilizing perfectly relevant criticisms of Democrats ON HIS BEHALF (anyone remember Billy Cunningham?).
However, that was then and this is now. The reality of the situation is that one of these two men will be the next President (barring a last minute steal by the Clintons), and the fact of the matter is McCain is about a million times more qualified to be the next commander-in-chief than Senator Doofus. I am also happy to see that McCain is finally starting to act more like a conservative, like he used to be. Suffice it to say that on election day I will walk through a wall of fire if need be to vote for Senator McCain, for the good of the country I love.

Senator Doofus
Obama can lie through his teeth in an attempt to be all things to all people and it won't matter because the prostitutes who comprise the drive-by media will slavishly go along with anything he says. He cannot defend himself when confronted with his lies and instead complains about anything anybody says about him. The democrats have put up some real losers as their nominee in past elections but no one has ever been this arrogant while simaltaneously exhibiting his monumental stupidity any time he is off prompter. In fact, it is actually difficult to decipher what he really believes because it changes depending on who he's talking to. In this regard he makes the Clintons look like pikers, which may actually be the only impressive thing about him.

King lib
Before you start advising people on how to avoid embarassment you might want to learn how spell "weight". O.k. so there probably are Bush people advising McCain, so the hell what? Bush did defeat you people twice, so his people are probably valuable to McCain. It isn't as if Senator Doofus isn't using the same retread democrat party hacks that have been advising candidates for decades, so what's the point?
You had better learn one thing, Bush may not be terribly popular, but he is not hated by a majority of the American people. You can try to tie McCain to Bush, which is frankly absurd, but even if you do you are not harming his candidacy. McCain, for whatever else you want to say about the guy, is his own man.
Politico? Are you serious? Well, actually I know the answer to that question.

Always confused
Isn't this the guy that said he was conceived after the Selma march when he was already 4??? I think Barack and his campaign aids are counting on the general public to not really remember a thing, and to really not know much about it. It works much better for him to be unknown. I think they they taken polls about his abortion stance and many Americans are unaware of his voting record. I guess they are assuming since he embraces his faith that he would naturally realize that killing the unborn would be morally appalling. Some things just don't add up.

The Wheels Are Coming Off
Maybe Barry had himself & his Obamaniacs that he could walk on water but now that he's up to his neck in quicksand he has resorted to the tactics of a five year old..."whatever you say bounces off me sticks to you, I'm rubber you're glue...Nyah Nyah nyah nyah nuh".

His performance at Saddleback was pitiful & now everyone knows why he refuses to do Townhall Debates with McCain. It's what we've known all along - without a teleprompter or prepared remarks he's Umm, ahhh, well, let me just say - He ain't so quick on the uptake!!!

Even with time to think about the 1st question before going on stage he chose Michelle and, his "typical white person" grandmother as people he would rely on "in his administration"...HUH?
Then the dolt couldn't even form a PERSONAL OPINION about a pressing moral issue facing the country!!!!
If even having an opinion was "above his pay grade" well then I guess he should be working at a Micky-D's drive-thru.

What's he going to do when Hillary shows up in Denver with his ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE from Kenya?

Yup. The snake oil salesman, the man who would be king is on his way to a disasterous defeat, either at the hands of McCain or the Clintons AND it is going to be a joy to watch.

Maybe he shouldn't have made up that faux presidential seal. Seems he started going downhill fast right around that time.

Good-by Barry. We hardly know ye. Let's keep it that way.


For God And Country
W/O=

Life Begins
...at conception. Whether you individually like the reality or not, at conception the process is considered a parasite by which a woman at this stage can more responsibly decide for her progeny to exist or not, those are the facts. The same scientific method you denounce Gorebal Warming is the same science that understands this fact.

We ought not to have abortion. However, at this stage of evolution we must be present to reality which compels us to provide choices for those who are irresponsible with their bodies toward pregnancies unwanted. RU-486 assists with this process in the most responsible and humane way possible at this time.

Thrusting on society the consequences of babies being born unwanted and supported by government entitlements for which WE ALL pay, is not looking out for our self-interest toward fiscal responsibility and societal accountability.

Teach girls and boys the accountability and ownership of such choices by which to engage sexually along with all potential outcomes, not as fear tactics but reality; this can create change toward fewer abortions.

Stay rooted in philosophical subjective ideology whereby you impose your viewpoint onto society and you end up being the greater problem than the action itself and you continue down this path.

Do you have the courage?

All life is equal across the board.


Do you have the courage?

Do you understand freedom?


Yeah! King Glue-sniffer was right!


Now it all comes back! I called the dude Buck Bunny; and PlumpLib had hysterics.

OK, I do know that slob. That's the first time Glue King got it right. Partly.

King lib
You are indeed sorry.

From someone who was there
By Jill Stanek
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com

In February 2004, U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama's wife, Michelle, sent a fund-raising letter with the "alarming news" that "right-wing politicians" had passed a law stopping doctors from stabbing half-born babies in the neck with scissors, suctioning out their brains and crushing their skulls (for good measure).
Michelle called partial-birth abortion "a legitimate medical procedure," and asked in the letter wouldn't supporters please pay $150 to attend a luncheon for her husband, who would fight against "cynical ploy[s]" to stop it?

Legislation was presented on the federal level and in various states called the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. It stated all live-born babies were guaranteed the same constitutional right to equal protection, whether or not they were wanted.
BAIPA sailed through the U.S. Senate by unanimous vote. Even Sens. Clinton, Kennedy and Kerry agreed a mother's "right to choose" stopped at her baby's delivery.
The House also overwhelmingly passed the bill. NARAL went neutral on it. Abortion enthusiasts publicly agreed that fighting BAIPA would appear extreme. President Bush signed BAIPA into law in 2002.
But the Illinois state version failed repeatedly thanks to then-state Sen. Barack Obama. It only passed in 2005, after Obama left.
I testified in 2001 and 2002 before a committee of which Obama was a member.
Obama articulately worried that legislation protecting live aborted babies might infringe on women's rights or abortionists' rights. Obama's clinical discourse, his lack of mercy, shocked me. I was naive back then. Obama voted against the measure, twice. It ultimately failed.
In 2003, as chairman of the next Senate committee to which BAIPA was sent, Obama stopped it from even getting a hearing, shelving it to die, much like babies were still being shelved to die in Illinois hospitals and abortion clinics.

Part Two
(As chair of that same committee, Obama once abruptly ended a hearing early, right before Scott and Janet Willis, the parents of six children killed as a result of Illinois' drivers licenses for bribes scandal, were to testify in favor of Choose Life license plate legislation. I was there for that one, too. The Willises had traveled three hours. Reporters filled the room. Obama stalled. He later killed the bill when no one was around.)

By Jill Stanek
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com


The bottom line
Obama is a hard leftist. The American people do not elect hard leftists in national elections. One of the reasons the democrats won in '06 is because a whole lot of them acted like conservatives and won close elections. When not giving platitudinous speeches about nothing Senator Doofus comes across as exactly who he is: an inexperienced pleab who is as radical a socialist/anti-life democrat as has ever ran for any office. At the beginning of this I did not think McCain had a chance because Obama's supporters are essentially a cult that will ignore any thing he says or does and will blindly support him because of his skin color(there is a word for this: racism). While that is still largely the case I am now convinced that a majority of the American people will not be fooled by this false idol. If McCain doesn't do anything stupid like pick a pro-abortion running mate, he will win this election with over 300 electoral votes.

Pretend king was close to collapse


The fat boy's having a near-breakdown. I don't know why; my posts didn't mention him at first.

No never mind; we shall coalesce in ranks behind McCain. He'll bitsch-slap Obambi once more maybe twice. It was bound to happen.

In retrospect; what a lucky break Hillary wasn't nominated. Her little tearing-up act might've brought some grief for Mac during the required face to face debates. The Fems and their willing media would've been squealing about women who are dissed by those evil MEN!

Now, when Obambi takes some elbows to the back of the neck, Americans will likely say: "Hit the creep again, McCain! He's indecent!"

King Lib
Well I hope you enjoy your glass of. "Sorry" isn't a name, it's an adjective. I am not wrong, and I am not the loser. You, like a lot of democrats these days, are incredibly arrogant while devoid of any real intellect. If you wish to exit this arena of ideas do so knowing that I did not yeild one inch to you, so your claim of mopping the floor with me or anybody else is without merit. You are either a fraud or a coward or both. But I will give credit where credit is due, at least you spelled porterhouse correctly.

King Liberal
First, the Obama camp admitted that he did vote for infanticide - 3 times. Obama sir, made a fool of you. Get with the facts.

Second, who cares if McCain has employeed some Bush advisers. Obama is using Clinton advsiors and he takes advice from anti-american terrorists like Bill Ayers.

Third, your candidate almost stated that justice Thomas did not have enough "experience" to be a supreme court justice - but he caught himself. Justice Thomas had decades of more experience then Barrack Obama.

Fourth, anyone who allows a baby to die after a live birth is a monster - NO JUSTIFICATION. NO RATIONALISATION. Once the child is delivered and lives, the mother has no more excuses. Sorry. Barrack supports allowing the new born to literally be thrown away to die. This is reality. This cannot be denied. So Mr. King Liberal, when is a new born a human being? When does it have the constitutional right to "Life". If not after birth - when? 1 day? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year? When the mother decides that it is a person? When the mother gives the baby a name? If you support this monster, you are a very sick person.


Poor John
John has been caught in a white lie. Did you know he voted for that 3 million dollar bear bill? Did you know he voted for that bridge to nowhere?

Ha! Libfat retiring to his dining room



I intuited this was a fat baboon! Haha!

The Pretender's telling you, hank; HE WILL NOW

go munch down a delicious porterhouse steak and a glass of .

Don't even go there. The Toons have seen his strange tastes.

Nobama's lies, The votes he placed don't
Apparently he has no problem aborting babies born alive or at any time. His votes show that. And he is lying once again. Must all Democrats lie right through their teeth? We caught the last one purjurying himself under oath what's it gonna take to get rid of this one. These morons always forget about the voting records. They don't lie. It's how we keep tabs on the losers. And let me guess.. you're all for the Second Amendment of the Constitution you swore to uphold. Yep I believe that. You and Hillary and Pelosi, and Feinstein. All with F- ratings for protecting the Constitution's Bill of Rights but all claim to support it. Look at the votes. They don't lie on Nobama's abortion stance of kill'em all nor on the 2nd. Am.

King Lib...
When I disputed your claim that Karl Rove was an advisor to the McCain campaign, I was correct...your own posts state Karl Rove had a private conversation with John McCain...they are in the same political party, so that makes sense. If you want to call all people who "informally" discuss political strategy with a candidate "advisors," I guess one could possibly say Rove fit that bill...however that would apply to anyone who spoke to either candidate about politics and the campaign, I would guess. Please define what you mean by a term before you get nasty in response. By the way, I would be careful throwing rocks out of Obama's glass house with regard to "advisors." For instance, your man's buddy Axelrod has long been on the payroll of the Chicago political machine run by Daley...and just ask any Chicago newsman (or woman) about the corrupt political machine. And there is nothing "informal" about Axelrod. Also, since we are discussing "advisors," we should probably discuss the good Rev. Wright who had many, many discussions with Obama(both political and non). Then there are the very political Bill and his lovely wife who got Obama started in politics...good advisors they are, don't you think? King Lib, you are just a nasty troll...you are definitely out of your weight class, and at least I know how to spell the word.

Voting Record Is Public Knowledge
Obama's voting record is correctly reported, and Obama's defense is to call the RTL people "liars." It's the truth; public record and documented fact. How are they lying? Obama had no excuse so he called them "liars."

Obama is already such a fatally flawed candidate, it is amazing they are still trying to make excuses for Obama's shortcomings and failings. His votes on abortion demonstrate that Obama has no mercy in his heart, and his lies further demonstrate his lack of character.

When Is The Next Debate?
I can hardly wait for the next debate. I expect McCain to spank Obama again. Obama has two more debates to get through; I wonder who will be called "liars" next time around.

Brickhouse
Here's what will happen in the next debate. McCain will take Obama to the woodshed because Obama is an idiot. The whores in the drive-by media will proclaim Obama the winner and then accuse McCain of being racist. How McCain reacts to that will be the real story.

Committee report
Could it be that poor Slick just got confused???!!!??? Afterall he was so newwwwww and, perhaps, didn't quite grasp the intricacies of the voting machine????

poor souls
King Liberal and Kimberley, they do add hilarity to this blog. Their wizened intelligence really do point to the destructive nature of liberalism: an incomprehensible ability to either think clearly or critically, the only solution available for a liberal is name-calling.

McCain's voting record
cachetalln:

Is that all you have against McCain? Give me a break. Kennedy promoted the bill. So McCain was f**ked by Kennedy. Get a life cachetalln. McCain - unlike Obama - tried to work with Democrats. You moron. Are you too attempting to support Obama's support of infanticide? Do you also believe in killing new borns because they may not be perfect specimens of humans? Question? Would you have supported Hitler when he experiemented with Jewish children - Hilter's supporters sewed two jewish chilren together to see how their bodies would react? After all, according to him, they too were not really completely human. You sick Bast**d. Too bad your parents did not decide to leave you to die on a table in a mop closet like Obama did.

If liberals support this guy, they show who they really are - cold blooded murderers. One might be able to argue when a fetus becomes a human but there is NO excuse to KILL a newborn - even if that newborn has a disability.

UNBELIVABLE. This is what type of person the democrats have nominated. WOW. A reflection of their values. If you are born imperfect or if a women does not want you, you die - sufficate in a closet. PERIOD. But a polar bear has rights. SICK.

Hey all you pro-lifers
Let's see how you measure up on the other side of the gestation argument. McCain says human rights should be given at conception. This means that IUD's, morning-after pills, RU486, In-vitro fertilization (which very often destroys or freezes embryos) are all murder. Isn't McCain for stem-cell research? Also murder. Are you going to arrest all the women who have IUD's? Just curious.

The greater question is?
Is there anything, on any issue, of any political relevance that Barack Obama has not either lied about, said what he said is not what he meant, not backtracked on or not accused his opposition of distorting his position?

Facts mean nothing to Barack Obama. His word means nothing and that is what the American people need to understand about this impostor. He is an illusion, a ghost, a figment of his and the media's imagination.

Elect him president and your economic and personal future is an equal product of his smoke and mirrors.

Diane
Is anybody calling for the arrest of women who have abortions? McCain says human rights should be given at conception, and he's ritgt about that. I knew that before he said it, so I don't need his recognizance to be vindicated. If a life does not begin at conception than when can it begin? Therefore, any means to kill a life after conception is wrong. That doesn't mean we should punish women for using these methods because there has been a forty year movement to convince women that abortion is an acceptable, even cheered option. However, us PRO-LIFERS want to convince people that these options are wrong, because every life is precious.
Also, this "law" was decided by unelected judges based on a false premise. That is a sad excuse for the loss of 40 million lives.

HankRearden
"Human Rights should be given at conception" That means that if you destroy a blastocyst, you are a murderer. This means you must outlaw In-vitro fertilization along with all the other procedures I mentioned. If you outlaw abortion, I guess that women won't be arrested, they will just die in emergency rooms.

Poor Obama
He did learn from this mistake though. Now he just votes "Present". Its so much less of a burden when he doesn't have to vote for or against anything.

I guess that is how he serves the people - voting "present". He makes a good income from not doing his job as an elected official. Gotta admit, it sounds like a great racket.

Every time I do my best to avoid doing my job, I get a little talkin' to from the boss. Politics is looking better all the time.

Diane
Why would women die in emergency rooms if abortion was outlawed? I don't get it.

Diane
What you label a blastocyst, I call life. Even when it was you.

Diane
What the hell are talking about? I have not called any woman who has an abortion a murderer. I told you that there has been forty year movement aimed at convincing women that abotion is cool, and that certainly contributes to the decision making. Law is different from morality.

I erred
I meant to say What the hell are you talking about, Diane?

How arrogant
40 million babies die so a woman can have in-vitro fertilization. Nice tradeoff.

Now how can we justify naming Obama "King of the World" without any other countries even getting a vote?

The Real America
Conservitive GOP/NAZI'S are an ever declining minority. I am a proud newly registered member of the democratic party. It should be a sign to you idealism whenever somebody likes me penetrates the comments on your websites and posts a comment like this.
There is no white america, there is no black america. There is the united states of america.
If you don't believe this then you are living in a lie. Chances are likely that Obama will be our next president. If that scares you then you need to wake up. Check the statistics. http://www.realclearpolitics.com.

Finally
Finally I tire of the image without substance that is Obama. My confidence soars as I see that with more and more exposure this fleeting ghost of a man will be revealed as a product of the MSM and the profane bloggers on DailyKos and MoveOn. The American people are intelligent enough to see through this shadow of an intellect that is destined to self destruct in the bright light of day. The Media cannot protect him forever.

Chris...

Obama doesn't scare anyone living in the real world.

There are still more voters living in reality than Narcissistic dream states.

Sorry if you feel offended by Black America :)

You're pretty transparent.

Chris
I am not scared of you because you are a fraud. You can call all republicans nazis because you don't know what a nazi, or for that matter a tradional republican is. Conservatives are not a declining minority, we are the moral majority. With arrogance such as yours on display, I am beginning to look forward to November 4th.

Chris
I think my friend that you need to look up the NAZI party political planks or beliefs. You may be shocked. It means National Socialist German Workers Party. Their guiding principle was government or state control of industry.
If you believe in socialized medicine you might be a NAZI. If you believe the government should run the oil industry you might be a NAZI.If you think your political affiliation is above somebody else's you might be a NAZI. See how easy it is to be a NAZI and not even know it.

HankRearden
Hank, I'm sure you're a nice person. But I don't get what YOU'RE talking about when you say human rights should be given at conception, i.e. when sperm meets egg. To me,this means that no body can jeopardize the life of a zygote, blastocyst, embryo, or fetus. That means that IUD's, in-vitro, morning-after pills, and all abortions must be outlawed. That means someone has to go to jail or be fined if they commit these procedures. If you don't want to put women in jail, but just keep these procedures from being offered, then you will have women dying in emergency rooms from botched abortions. If you are going to hold Obama accountable for a bill that he didn't support because it didn't have protections for doctors who perform abortions and women who seek them, then you have to hold McCain accountable for saying that human rights begin at conception. I think I'm being pretty clear. McCain needs to support legislation outlawing all the procedures I mentioned.

Semperfi/par
Spot on.

Pro-Life Zealot? You betcha!
As I believe that life begins with conception, and don’t give a hoot in hell what other’s write about me, I won’t be mealy-mouthed.

Less than 3% of all abortions are performed because of either rape or in order to save the mother’s life. This means that more than 97% of all abortions are performed because the mother chooses, for whatever reason, to not bring the baby to birth.

I focus on the 97% and don’t let the pro-abortion boosters distract me by charging to slam me with their 3% gotcha.

Abortion is a form of birth control.

Abortion is murder.

Those doctors and nurses who perform it, are murderers.

The judges who overturned Roe v Wade are guilty of genocide.

Politicians such as Obama who support partial birth abortion are guilty of a crime against humanity.

Those who willingly choose to end their unborn baby’s lives have committed the unthinkable.

Come hither all you rabid pro-abortion hyenas. Attack!

OK, Way Down South
Maybe I'll ask you, then. How do you feel about IUD's which in some cases prevent implantation of a fertilized egg (which should be afforded human rights, according to McCain) in the uterus?

Diane
The question is when does life begin? If life does not begin at conception than when does it? These are not insignificant questions. Unless you can provide for me any explanation that makes sense, I conclude that life begins at conception.
Unelected lawyers-in-black-robes decided that there was a "Penumbra of Emenations"(look it up) that led to a "right of privacy" which does not exist in the constitution. This led to Roe v. Wade. Regardless where you come down on this matter the law is flawed, and should have never been decided by the courts.
As I have said, I am not for ascribing murderer status to those who have committed abortions, THERE HAS BEEN A FORTY YEAR MOVEMENT TO CONVINCE WOMEN THAT ABORTION IS AWESOME(it is impossible for me to say it any clearer than that). Those other methods are an offshoot of that original flaw. As such I want to champion candidates who are Pro-life(the opposite of which, by the way, is pro-death)

BO emits alot of rancid BO
Just about every single pronouncement by BO reeks so much of BO I gotta take a shower. This certified mountebank & charlatan is in bed with, & gets oodles of money from the abortion goons, MoveOn.org, the GLBT fruitloops, Islamofascists, a black liberation "church", the black grievance industry flunkies & every other group with a deleterious agenda for America.

Diane
Let me ask you, when does life begin?

HankReardon: I Could See It Happen
Your absolutely right, I could see it happen exactly that way. I doubt the "racist" label will ever be able to stick to McCain though. He's been especially careful to tippy-toe around anything at all that could have a racial connotation. McCain has never been known to be a racist in all the years America has known him, and his adopted daughter is foreign.

Leave it to the MSM to think of something though. They've become desperate and it's starting to show.

Diane
Thanks for answering my question. They would be in emergency rooms because of botched abortions.
So what you are saying is women can't keep their legs closed or realize the consequences of their actions. Thanks. I thought women were smarter than that. I guess you set me straight.
By the way arguing for abortion is tough because you have to use all kinds of colorful words other than Baby. Once you get through all the euphemisms Baby just jumps right out at you. Then you can't deny it. Abortion, Choice or whatever catch phrase is next is still killing a Baby in the womb. Right now Baby killing is legal in The United States. If you are for Baby killing just come out and say it.
I think Planned NONparent HOOD does not want to frame their argument with truth because it would put them out of business.

HankRearden
Hank, that answer is definitely above my paygrade.
I have worked as a respiratory therapist and in my internship I helped as a team of people who worked tirelessly to save a baby born prematurely at 27 weeks. Though this baby at 27 weeks was 3 weeks past the point where "viability" takes place, it was still a heroic effort to keep the baby alive. Most people don't understand how underdeveloped and small a 27 week old baby is. The babies are usually in the hospital for months on life support before they can go home. If an abortion takes place or a baby is born at 22 to 24 weeks, the chances that the baby would survive are virtually nothing even with all the technology we have available. I don't think there are any places that would do an abortion past 24 weeks unless the baby is severely deformed such that his/her survival is impossible. I think that makes this whole legislation of "infant born alive" moot.


Diane,
This is typical. You ignore the 97%+ of all abortions and ask me an obscure question about a birth control device which might prevent implantation of a fertilized egg.

This is even worse than “life of the mother” and “what about rape?” Now it's, "What about an IUD."

Perhaps you can explain to me what your question has to do with 97%+ of all ABORTIONS that are performed in the United States.

I suggest you raise your question with a doctor who is an expert on the IUD and is also a theologian.

DreadNaughty & Bucked-Up
No need to get vulgar gentlemen.

Hello Diane
You need to study some history.

First, no woman has, to anyone's knowledge, ever been prosecuted for aborting her CHILD. That particular honor has been extended only to the charlatans who in taking advantage of her unhappy situation have convinced her that the life within her is less than life, is not worthy of help. They see her as simply another tractor on the line, another few hundred dollars in their pockets. That's liberal compassion for you.

Second, it is a fact that women seeking abortions do so in almost all cases for convenience' sake. Your tired cliches to the contrary, women do not die in emergency rooms or back alleys because they cannot get abortions. Rather, they're in the ER so the docs there can repair the damage done by the quacks who perform all these "safe, legal, rare" abortions. Our town had one of these circuit-riding quacks slink out of town because our ER docs were absolutely fed up with having to fix his "safe and legal" abortions and were trying to get his medical license revoked. It is not known whether the damage he did to the women who trusted-and paid- him for a "safe and legal" abortion resulted in infertility or not. The point is, why should women be subject to this in the first place?

And, Diane,
If life doesn't begin at conception then what is the point of having an IUD in the first place?

If the tiny being in the womb isn't a baby, then you're not pregnant.

Right?

Wrong again Robbie.
Only nut jobs like you think the Founding Fathers included abortion in the Bill of Rights. We'll see about that Mr. Christian man come judgment day.

Pay For Their Own Abortions
I believe that if people had to pay for their own abortions, the abortion rate would significantly drop. Some women are using abortion as their means of birth-control. It was never intended to be that.

Back when RvW was being discussed, the pro-choice crowd talked at great length about the poor victims of rape and incest. Poor victims needed a way out (other than adoption). Very few of the 40M plus abortions conducted in America have been associated with rape or incest. They were the result of poor judgement.

I'm pro-choice: I believe in the right to get pregnant, or not to get pregnant. But once a woman IS pregnant, the choice has been made.

What galls the pro-life crowd the most is that it is OUR tax dollars that fund a procedure we find completely immoral. If a person believes abortion is murder, it's hard to disregard that murder happens in such large numbers in our country, and there is nothing we can do to stop it. In our Judeo-Christian society, how can our culture be so lacking in mercy?


Diane
Who cares what your pay grade is? You entered this discussion challenging PRO-LIFERS. O.K. so a 22-27 monther may not be optimal, but as a respiratory therapist do you deny that that child was in fact ALIVE? And if someone is alive, should we not fight to keep them alive? My father was born six weeks premature in the fiftees, and I'm glad they decided to help him out. Of course back then there wasn't a forty year movement in place to end life based on the convenience of the living.
I think you are probably a decent human being who has been fed a pack of lies which you hold as truth. It has been many sad days in this country that people such as yourself have believed that a less than perfect life is inconsequential.

One Last Thought Diane Be4 U Go
At conception, there's a spark of life; the heartbeat kickstarting. At conception, there's DNA already that can tell us what sex the baby is, what their eye and hair color is. If uninterrupted, a human being will emerge in 9 months. Babies in the womb suck their thumbs, cry, have hiccups; they ARE alive. Pray on this because how a society treats it's most vulnerable citizens truly defines them. This was intended to be the land of the free. These American citizens have to right to enjoy the same freedoms you and I enjoy. They have no voice, so we need to speak up for them. Adoption is ALWAYS, ALWAYS an option. There are thousands and thousands of couples right now who would love a baby, regardless of the circumstances of conception.


Robert
Schmuck. I didn't mistate Roe, I identified it as it is; an enormous power play by the supreme court. They did not then nor do they now have the authority to determine decisions such as this. The only reason they do now, as they have since 1803, is because the congress has lacked the courage/integrity to rein in the courts.

Ranger,
Go back to your mother's basement and re-read what you wrote.

Your argument that women who abort are not prepared to deal with a child tells me and anyone else who can read that no, it is NOT convenient for her to carry that child to term. The undefined term "health of the mother" is in the abortion laws for a reason.

Try again?

Still early post-op so need to get to bed-I'll be back tomorrow.

HankRearden
Hank, sorry I misread you question. I believe life begins before conception--the egg and sperm are both alive. The fertilized egg is also alive. The question is when does the fertizized egg get human rights. The answer to that is unanswerable. Therefore, we have to weigh the rights of the mother in the situation. Also, we can try to keep a 20, 21, or 23 week old baby alive, but there is virtually no chance that we will succeed. Well, I really have to go now.

Diane re: abortifacients
Diane, I am interested in your comments. Are you suggesting that IUDs and other birth control methods you listed are abortifacient rather than contraceptive? I was under the impression that most in vivo birth control methods rely on the cessation of ovulation or spermaticide; thus they are defined to the patient as contraceptives.

"existing evidence does not support claims that either hormonal methods or the IUD are abortifacients or prevent implantation."
http://www.fhi.org/en/RH/Pubs/factsheets/mechact.htm

Which is it? You list them as abortifacients.

Perhaps that is your distinction. Birth control which is truly contraceptive allows no harm to human being as none was conceived. Abortifacients allow conception of a human being but prevent successful implantation.
Could this be a possible point of distinction and an arena for compromise?

Louisiana has passed legislation declaring an embryo, such as produced by in vitro fertilization, as a juridical person, with rights attached. They can not be destroyed. Whether that is logical or not is up for debate.

Also, embryos are not the only source of stem cells. Stem cells can be obtained from other sources, like adult skin cells, the last time I checked, but perhaps I am behind the times.

Robert
You are wrong. The Constitution is silent on this issue. Your attempt to equate this to Bush v. Gore is apallingly stupid, but predictable. Implementing a procedure by which a human being is killed is not the same as stopping an out of control Florida Supreme Court that was trying to inflict a decision on the rest of the country.
But you don't care. You bring up Appomattox. Would you have preferred that things went the other way? Do you understand what the Civil war was about?

Diane
I'm sorry you have to go.

Methinks Diane
just cut and ran. Good job guys.

IUd's are abortafacients, but the dirty little secret is, that the women AREN'T told that, they think it's a benign birth control device, til one day they start hemoraghing Happened to a friend, years ago, and she was on a plane when it happened and ended up in a hospital.

When you get right down to the nitty gritty
Partial birth abortion is torturing a tiny
human being to death. Neglecting an abortin
survivor is torturing a tiny human being to death. Think about it, think about what happens in partial birth procedure? Putting
a baby away among dirty linens to gasp it's
last breath alone, untended is torture.
Any one convince me it's otherwise????

Tea Party...
You are right on the money...good post.

one more nail
hopefully one more nail in the coffin.

John McCain - The Gangster
Big-Time Gangsters Set Up McCain’s Family Fortune

Bronfman family behind the organized crime empire in Arizona that spawned the political career of John McCain

-----------------------------

http://www.davidduke.com/general/john-mccains-connection-to -the-jewish-supremacist-bronfman-family-liquor-empire_3330. html

Lying Liars and the Lies They Tell
Jeez! Obama and the Obama campaign is calling everybody but themselves liars, e.g. Corsi in his book, Obama Nation.
So far Obama and his campaign have avoided for the most part taking on the other book, The Case Against Barack Obama.
I am of the predisposition to believe the first one to say "liar" is the liar; likewise the first one to say "racist" is the racist.
Think about those things; think, I said, not emote! There is a huge difference between thinking and emoting, and that difference defines Conservatives as opposed to Liberals.

To Kimberly!
Dear Kimberly,
In your response to the various comments regarding the junior Senator from Illinois, you reference war and the killing of innocent people. My question to you is how does the unintended consequences of killing people during a war, whether justified or not, square with the INTENDED MURDERING an innocent baby by allowing it to lie on a table [Or perhaps in a trash can!]because the women has a right to make a choice? She made a choice nine months earlier, why did she wait until the last minute to MURDER an innocent, helples child? You have the audacity to refer to a war and the killing that results as just as low? Let me tell you something young lady as a veteran of the second most divisive war in history, With a few exceptions, none of us ever stooped to something as low as this. Don't you ever degrade those of us who support the rights of the unborn child! We are not interested in taking away your so called right to chose. We are against out right murder which is what this procedure is! You should be grateful that your mother wasn't as selfish as you are. As for your Savior, Obama Lied and Babies Died!

Diane
" Also, we can try to keep a 20, 21, or 23 week old baby alive, but there is virtually no chance that we will succeed. Well, I really have to go now. "

So, since there is virtually no chance that we will succeed in keeping the baby alive, let's just let it sit and die from neglect? Great idea, let's not try to help it live.
There's virtually no chance of rehabilitating child molesters but liberals still think they should be released from jail. Be consistent, ask for the death penalty for child molesters, rapists, and murderers. I didn't think so. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

bad baby
TX RANGER,
MY DAUGHTER JUST HAD MY GRAND DAUGHTER 6 WEEKS AGO. THE BABY CRIES ALL NIGHT AND SLEEPS ALL DAY. HER AND HER HUSBAND WORK ALL DAY AND CAN'T SLEEP AT NIGHT. SHOULD THEY TAKE IT TO THE LOCAL ABORTION CLINIC AND HAVE THEM KILL IT, IT REALLY IS INCONVIENENT FOR THEM AND IS AFFECTING THEIR HEALTH. IF THEY HAVEN'T CHRISTIAN IT YET IS IT REALLY A HUMAN BEING WITH A SOUL OR IS IT LIKE ONE OF THE KITTENS I PUT IN THE SACK AND THREW IN THE RIVER. SORRY ABOUT THAT PETA BUT GOSH THEY WERE INCONVIENENT.
BOTEXAN

Would Jesus..
..call someone a liar? Of course not. This proves Obama's not a messiah but a Democrat.

Rape of McAmnesty's Daughter--LIE!!!
Selective memory by this punditz! For facts, check the record during the primary campaign. A reporter asked McAmnesty what he would do if his daughter were raped (say by an illegal alien he has let in, as so many American women have), and got pregnant. He said they would seriously discuss abortion. Now he tells the evangelicals just the opposite! "Do as I say, not as I do!" Another lie from liberal Democrat Slick Talk McAmnesty! What a fraud! Ask him the question now!

Obama-ites to the rear
Chairmain Moa could not have said Barry’s words better. B.H.O. is no reformer – he has showed us so in the unflagging support of his Democrat masters that have propped him up before us (Freddoso, 2008, p. Ch 1). B.H.O. is no Redeemer – as he has showed us in his unrepentant support for Planned Parenthood and the saddest kind of disregard for human life that would happen to survive an abortion (Freddoso, 2008, p. Ch 10). B.H.O. is no foreign policy leader (nor are his socialist friends and advisors), because he has never even been a Boy Scout.
As far as we have been able to vet so far, B.H.O. represents change that we shall be buried under with more and more federal debt. So, for you knuckleheads who think Sen. McCain’s candidacy promotes ill-will for you and your ilk, be advised that is you to whom we make fun of. For we know – from his own mouth – that B.H.O. knows full well his campaign is composed full of vapid innuendos upon which the Obama-ites can paint anything they wish on the canvas of his (brief) career in public life.
See you at the polls!

Life begins at the moment of creation
As is coined in the Declaration of Independence, All men are CREATED EQUAL, and entitled to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

It doesn't say BORN EQUAL, it says CREATED EQUAL. The Justices never took the Declaration into consideration.

Neither has Obama. Obama is hiding, ducking, dodging, switching, modifying, flip-flopping, twisting everything. He's doing his best to HIDE his true nature and beliefs. Why? Cause he knows America will never buy what he's trying to sell - except the far left, America haters.

And yes, his arrogance will be his undoing, no matter how much the MSM aids and abetts his trek to the top.

Killing Developing Humans
Nature has the answer to the abortion problem . Flower seeds are just flower seeds until they are planted.
Human seeds (Sperm) when planted become developing humans (pregnancy)

You pull up a flower before it is mature, it dies. You You expell a human before they mature it dies.

It's no wonder
leftists hate liberty.

It is just so dam- hard to hide a lie when you live in a free country. If Obama lived in the Soviet Union he could tell his "comrades" any lie he chose to and there would be no one able to dispute it.

It's quite different in America.

ABORTION
I am a conservative woman who had an abortion when I was 29, impulsive, stupid and selfish. I am now 53 and when I was in my late 30's and early 40's I had 3 miscarriages and and then had years of PAIN not ever being able to carry a baby to term. I am still conflicted about gov't intervention with regard to regulating abortion but I KNOW I made a terrible "choice." I hope G-d forgives me as I try to forgive myself. As a Jew I believe in a
G-d without a name. I am AFRAID of any man who professes to be a Christian but is now proven to be beyond a DOUBT to be what he accuses everyone else. LYER. VERY SCARY.

WRONG SPELLING
LIAR!!!!

Obama's Abortion Lies
How about a bumper sticker.... "Obama lied and babies died."


A Matter of Opinion
Some of the more troubling aspects of Barry's NOT being able to be HONEST and let the American Voting Public know his "opinion" to the question -
"In your opinion, when does life begin?"
...are;
1) We are left to wonder what are some of his OTHER OPINIONS? Especially regarding LIFE.
2) His willingness to allow a LIVE-BORN INFANT to die without give MEDICAL CARE or COMFORT makes me even more concerned with his "national healthcare plan".

IF Obama doesn't believe a live-born baby is a living, breathing human being & has protections under the premise that "ALL men are CREATED equal" (or are they "words, JUST WORDS") -
At what point does he believe a persons civil rights begin?
At what point do those rights expire?
Do Alzheimer patients retain their rights after they fail to remember certain things?
Do terminally ill patients, cancer for instance, continue to recieve medical care & comfort or does that stop at some point?
Or maybe comatose patients?
Will his 'plan' be concerned with the bottom line, a dollar amount set & medical care stops there?
Or will it be based on his as yet 'unshared opinion' of when a human life becomes UN-viable?

If he can't share with us when he thinks a life becomes viable, and he has a history of DOCUMENTED SUPPORT for INFANTICIDE - I think these are genuine concerns we should all have about the candidate.

W/O=

OBAMA CALLS PRO LIFE LIARS
There are at least 85 good reasons I WILL NOT, CANNOT vote for Obama...... But unless
there is a deluge of calls to the Senate, to
the President, to whoever else you can think of;

MANDATE OBAMA TO BRING FORTH HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE FOR RIGOROUS FORENSIC EXAMINATION.

SOMETHING IS V E R Y WRONG, WHEN AFTER ALL THE REQUESTS VARIOUS SITES HAVE MADE, IS ALL HE HAS SHOWN IS A CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH; NOT
THE SAME THING, WOULD NOT GET YOU A PASSPORT.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THAT A CANDIDATE HAS A RIGHT TO HAVE HIS ELIGIBILITY TO BE PRESIDENT OF OUR NATION, ESPECIALLY WITH HIS MULTI-NATION, MULTI-ETHNIC, MULTI-
EDUCATIONAL, MUSLIM VS CHRISTIAN BACKGROUND IN VARIOUS COUNTRIES.

JUST THE ON THING; REFUSAL TO BRING IT FORTH SHOULD RAISE RED FLAGS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Yes he lied.........what else is new?

ONLY LIAR is Obama

Obama lies about everything including his lies about his lies

THE DOCUMENTED FACTS are the FACTS

Obama is the liar:

Obama Calls Pro-Lifers Liars
It is my personal belief that Obama or McCain for that matter I think are playing a tad bit but it is the Dems that have been the ones always pushing things that I have never really liked. But I think the real question to both of them is thus: Why should I vote for you as neithier of you are exactly lighting up the board.

lies about lies
B2slim, take it easy, you are giving me Clintonian flashbacks!

Obama lied, Babies died
Obama votes starting in at least 2003 and up to the present to allow abortions for ANY reasons has lead to the DEATH of thousands, maybe millions of babies.

Obama lies to hide his pro-abortion record.

Obama lied, Babies died.

plain and simple
Abortion is the greatest evil in our society today.

Obama supports abortion. Obama supports evil.

Take away all of his stammering and stuttering and the bare truth is exposed. Obamas "soaring rhetoric" is just a bunch of words to confuse the people and conceal his real agenda.

The jibberish about "right to choose" is pure nonsense. Every conceived baby has both a mother and a father. One would justifiable conclude that a right to abortion is simply a means to undo the result of lustful behavior.

Obama the lying Child killer
Amanda:

Fantastic reporting. (1) Obama lied about his voting record when called into question; (2) in so lying, he accuses and and calls those questioning his record "liars" (irony of hilarious proportions were it no so sad); (3) the subject matter or substance about which he lied and the side on which he came down - DEATH OF AN INFANT WHO HAD SURVIVED ATTEMPTED ABORTION out of concocted apprehension of eroding the most constitutionally weak and illusory "right" -- belies a man (and i use that term extremeley loosely) of who has no moral fortitude or principles.

Obama can not be president.

More and more lies....
There have been so many lies about Obama plastered all over Townhall, why should I suddenly believe this?

Townhall has spread......

Lies about his birth certificate;
Lies about his name;
Lies about his religion;
Lies about his school;
Lies about his patriotism;
Lies about making time for the troops;
Lies about visiting the troops;
Lies about the hand-over-the-heart;
Lies about the US flag on his plane.

Suddenly I'm supposed to belive this story?

If Documented Evidence are Lies
Then I can see why My Pet Goat is a die-hard Obama sycophant.

More and More Lies...
My Pet Goat must be from Austin, where the goats are fearful. Patriotic American has it right. Demoncats are just loony, reading the DailyKOS or Move(spew)On.org blogs will confirm mental illness.

Pro-choice
Here's a choice for fems like Kimberly. How about choosing not to spread your legs for any Tom, Dick and Harry? How about choosing to only lay with a man that has proven himself worthy to receive all that you are able to give? And before you get on your high horse, I'm not talking about victims of rape. I'm talking about fems that eschew the ounce of prevention in favor of a pound of cure.

We Are Liars?
The Chicago Machine hack does have gall to call anyone liar. He did vote against “born alive” and the record is clear. But then the Chicago Machine hack has lied about about other things including his church, friends, the state school he attended in Indonesia, his relationship with the Weather Underground, the PLO and the Nation of Islam. So I guess calling others liars is natural for him.
He told Rick Warren he was grateful for Christ's Resurrection and other times denied the Deity of Christ and the fact of Heaven.So I guess lying has no downside for him.

To Kimberly
"even so low as to lump an unborn fetus into the same grouping as a living, breathing child"

Alas, Kimberly, pro-lifers didn't do that. God (or evolution) did that. You see, a 'fetus' is merely an earlier stage in an *unbroken* chain of development that begins with conception and ends with death. You can slice it any way you want, but the fetus IS the child who BECOMES the adult. There is no point at which the fetus suddenly and magically turns human. It's human all along. And it's LIVING.

What folks like you try to do is pick a point in the human lifespan during which an inconvenienced mom-to-be can be exempt from the normal rules and hedges regarding the taking of human life. You do this in order to excuse women from the law of consequences. I suppose women are such helpless, childlike creatures that they cannot be expected to cope with the results of their decisions (such as the one to have sex)?

"heaven forbid a woman should make a choice regarding her own body and her own reproductive rights."

Women have all sorts of choices: abstinence is one of them, and there are many forms of contraceptive. However, and perhaps you don't understand the science, the 'fetus' is NOT A PART OF HER BODY. There's this stuff called DNA, and it can be used to identify discrete individuals with a remarkable degree of accuracy. And guess what? The 'fetus' does not have the same DNA as inconvenienced mom-to-be.

Our society makes laws regarding a person's right to end the life of another. Pretending that 'fetuses' are not human, or are not identifiably discrete individuals, or are not alive, are simply cheap dodges.

Obamaites to the Rear!
Obama lied - babies died; GREAT bumper sticker. Sign me up for two.

Obama vs McCain

Lets go back to the questions at the mega church since I feel many missed the irony and chose to dwell on saying McCain cheated...
Regardless of if he heard any answers or not, its the stupid b/s spewed by Obama that says it all. THAT is the real issue, combined with the fact that some clown whose history is "I was a neighborhood organizer of black people (didn't know they were unorganized), a tour on the Illinois senate, and has not even finished half of his current term, yet he has the unmitigated gall to say that a Supreme court justice is not experienced enough..talk about the old saying of the "pot calling the kettle black"...and this clown wants to be POTUS, the most powerful nation on earth...Paleeze!!! To add more to his answers, when asked about all the bad stuff, he replys that it is in Darfur, and twice in the US. Again with the blame this country routine that Liberals do wo well. Never even mentioned small unknown places like China, Korea, Russia, Iraq, Iran, and all the other really safe and neat places to visit...

Sukhotai

i am a woman
i find that "choice" should be to get pregnant and carry that beloved child to term, or use birth control.. that is the choice that should be given.. not choice to murder the innocent. now, that said, all you murderers can put it where the sun don't shine. you see, i am not against "choice".

Obama's abortion stance
During the run up to the Pennsylvania primary Obama at a "Planned Parenthood" meeting stated,"I've got two daughters, 9 years old and 6 years old...I am going to teach them first of all about values and morals. But if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby"
Reported March 31, 2008 by Stephen Ertelt, LifeNews.com Editor. The Liberal left wing loons conveniently forget this.

Heebie...
I'm sorry for your losses...God bless you.

Kevin...re your post to
David Duke at 1:21 a.m...If you want to appear credible, you will need to find a more reliable source for your badmouthing than a known bigot, white supremist, Jew/Israel hating, self-acknowledged head of the KKK. Bad choice, Kevin. Now you have no credibility on these threads.

oh, I'm DROWNING in a sea
of Obama columns...!

To maggie
Women should have the *choice* to engage in activities and then be compelled to cope with the not-unanticipated consequences?

How very horrid. Imagine people being held responsible for their actions!

What amazes me is just how many people are willing to argue that adult women cannot be held responsible for their actions. Are they mental incompetents? Are they children? That certainly seems to be the implication of their argument.

MyPetGoat

If you really want to know about your candidate of choice and if you are not afraid of the truth go to http://theobamafile.com

This is not information from the right wing groups, it is from documented files and family members

birth control
i think the biggest problem is women have been given the right to murder children as a means of birth control. that is unexceptable. if that is what the definition of "choice" is, then i am very much against "choice". i am truly ashamed of the human race. i gave my daughter several choices. 1. we do not murder children, we raise them. 2. abstain, then we do not get pregnant. 3. we take the pill, hopefully we do not get pregnant. 4. should we get pregnant anyway, 1. we do not murder children, we raise the child. 2. we give child up for adoption to someone who will love the child. 3.i will raise the child 4. together we will raise child.. my daughter did get pregnant out of wedlock and her choice was for us to raise him together. we have a wonderful, mature, highly intelligent 21 year old college student. we would not trade him for all the money in the world that we could have had if we had never had him. daughter was given a wide choice and she chose wisely. there is a tremendous amount of love there. love we would have missed had we chose to murder. humans make mistakes. Chirstians and non Christians alike live by their mistakes and make them right.. not murder. for every unborn or partially child born that we murder we become a little bit more uncivilized. we become more and more barbaric.
i am totally sickened by our barbaric society as a whole.

Great Article!! KUDOS
Subject: Obama's Verbal Opposition To Born Alive by oncealwaysamarine:
Transcript of Obama's verbal opposition to 2001-Born Alive Infant Protection Act, Senate Bill 1095, on the Illinois Senate floor, March 30, 2001, pages 84-90

http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans92/ST033001.pd f


Transcript of Obama's verbal opposition to 2002-Born Alive Infant Protection Act, Senate Bill 1662, April 4, 2002, pages 28-35

http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans92/ST040402.pd f

Interestingly, the Chicago Sun-Times, on August 25, 2004, printed on page 49, a cartoon by Jack Higgins, pictorially admonishing Barack Hussein Obama for his opposition to Born Alive, proving that, once again, information about Obama, while being politically sensitive, is not reported when it may be damaging to Democrat political ambition.

The Mainstream press has been, and will continue to pretend ignorance of any & all information about the Lone Stranger, while trying to do all they can to propel this Marxist devil to the top job in the country.

His elevation to the Presidency serves their evil ambitions as much as it does his, and they will stoop to anything to get a stranglehold on the American people and to subvert the traditional values of our Constitution.

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness..."--Romans 1:18

Obama's Past Records
Obama can lie about his true record (and past life) because he knows that the MainScream Media will not check. Fortunately McCain nows has enough money to run ads , that will bring up the questions before the Average American who is not quite so dumb as the DemonCrats would like.
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