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Wednesday, April 16, 2008
Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Democrats Block Resolution to Commend Pope
by Amanda Carpenter
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Update: Democratic Sen. Barbara Boxer (D.-Calif.) was the one who objected to the religious language. Brownback agreed to drop 'human life' from the resolution to appease pro-choice Democrats. Consequently, the Senate adopted the resolution Wednesday afternoon.

A reliable GOP aide informs Townhall that Senate Democrats are blocking a measure to commend Pope Benedict XVI because of “controversial” religious language used in the text of the resolution.

The Pope arrived in Washington Wednesday for a six-day visit to the United States. He delivered an address on the White House South Lawn that morning to praise the America for preserving religious freedom at home and abroad.

A week before the pontiff arrived in Washington, the House passed a resolution to welcome him to the United States.

The Senate has so far refrained from passing a similar resolution because at least one Senate Democrat is objecting to the following statements contained in the Senate’s resolution to welcome the Pope:

"Whereas Pope Benedict XVI has spoken approvingly of the vibrance of religious faith in the United States, a faith nourished by a constitutional commitment to religious liberty that neither attempts to strip our public spaces of religious expression nor denies the ultimate source of our rights and liberties"

"Whereas Pope Benedict XVI has spoken out for the weak and vulnerable, witnessing to the value of each and every human life;"

The Senate resolution has bipartisan sponsorship. Republican Sen. Sam Brownback (R.-Kans.) introduced the resolution on April 15. It is cosponsored by Democratic Sen. Bob Casey (Pa.). Both senators are Catholic.

The was offered for passage by unanimous consent, meaning the Senate could pass it without a vote, through a procedure called “hotlining.” The resolution could not be “hotlined,” however, because of Democratic objections to the statements listed above.

Until Democrats lift their objections, or the resolution is modified, it remains in limbo.

The aide tells Townhall, “I guess the Democrats look down on those who ‘cling’ to religious liberty and value life. Makes me bitter.”

Democratic presidential contender Sen. Barack Obama (D.-Ill.) has faced fierce criticism over the past week because he suggested to supporters at a private fundraiser in San Francisco “bitter” Americans “cling” to wedge voting issues like gun rights, faith and border security when faced with economic hardship.

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About The Author
Amanda Carpenter is the author of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton,” published in October 2006.
 
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Political Idiocy
I only watched the ceremonies for the Pope briefly this morning. I was struck by two things. First the honor that was given the Pope by America and more emotionally, the look of near childlike delight in the Pope's face as he watched the display in his honor.

Only Democrats could find a way to insert politics into such a resolution that would commend such an inspirational man. How pathetic, how selfish, how disgustingly political.

The whole thing is politics

I don't think this is a very good use of Congress' time anyway. The only reason they are doing this is because they want Catholics to vote for them.

Look I think the Pope is a fine and good man. And I appreciate what he does for Christianity. But I don't understand why he gets a resolution that nobody else does. He doesn't vote, he doesn't pay taxes, he's not American.

He's spoken out against the US involvement in the wars we have waged for those less fortunate. He supports the large and growing illegal immigrant population that we have here because most of them are Catholic.

The point is that this resolution is pointless. It is more pandering to Catholics so that they will vote for them. I don't care about the religious wording of the 'resolution', I just don't think this is appropriate business for Congress. I don't understand the fuss over this person.

Nothing surprising about this at all
That the Democrats would stoop to blocking a simple resolution commending a man who has done so much good in his life to help so many people.

It figures that they'd resort to petty political tricks like this just because they detest religious people.

Actually Thacker
The Pope is a head of state.
Not to mention a visiting dignitary.
Congress REGULARLY honors people in such positions in this fashion, so it's not a waste of time as it spreads good will from our Government to the Government of the Holy See(the Vatican).

Yet...
The Democratic congress can pass a resolution commending the Islamic holiday of Ramadan.

Scumbags.

thacker
they waste a lot more time just sitting around picking their noses.

Amanda
Sorry,Amanda.You have it all wrong.You could have explained the Democrats dirty work in one sentence....If the Pope had dissed President Bush,they would have signed anything proposed .

If
the Pope had said America was an evil nation and Bush was like Hitler, the Dems would have broken their fingers signing the resolution, but he did the unthinkable, he praised America.

Wasting Time?
I think congress should take as much time as possible debating this bill. The more time they spend on this, the less time they have to pass legislation that costs the taxpayer money.

All Resolutions Pandering to Voters
Congress has lots of better things to do than pass Resolutions. The problem is that performing their elected duties doesn't get them votes like resolutions do.

atheling
I agree and I would add that the democrats who commend a Muslim Holiday but deny the same commendation for the Pope are people with two faces. One of those faces attends to the secular world. The other attends to all religions save one - the one that can save them. Either way, what they are doing should not surprise a Christian because it is the god of this world rather than God the Father they are paying allegiance to when they make such a decision. But, we should not denegrate them because they don't know what they do. And we have all been there - rejecting our Creator in one way or another. We should deal with them first on our knees but also not forget to vote them out of office.

the pope is vile
The pope deserves to be condemned not lauded.

He aided pedophiles...
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4656143&page=1

His support of suffering and ignorance by condemning science...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article35170 50.ece
http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL3189220620080131

His attacks on religious freedom...

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL3061318320071 130?pageNumber=3&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true

His continued support of suffering and hypocrisy by condemning birth control...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4463397.stm

Is this
really something Congress should be doing? Really? Yes, I think the REASONS they are refusing to do it is disgusting, but honestly: Is this REALLY something congress SHOULD be doing?

Oddly, the liberal-cons here have NO problem justifying this because of WHO it is.

It's ALL just partisan politics folks. And as usual BOTH sides are wrong.

Dems are despicable
How low can the Dems go?
How can you associate with such an anti-life organization?
The people that would vote this way are the real threat to America.
Ashamed to be a Democrat!

resolution to commend pope
that pesky inferece to respecting human life....it will just cost some dem support by the pro abortion bunch of voters.

too bad

resolution to commend pope
that pesky inferece to respecting human life....it will just cost some dem support by the pro abortion bunch of voters.

too bad

resolution to commend pope
sorry for dupl.....my impatience..did not see it come up for a couple mins . thought it did not get through or ??

The FOS award goes to....
The Pope could care what Congress thinks of him. They don't want to give the Pope a medal, they want to give themselves one, and make themselves important by giving awards.

All awards are the same: a big farce to satisfy the ego of the person who gives it.

I can forgive Alfred Nobel for having invented dynamite, but only a fiend in human form could have invented the Nobel Prize. -George Bernard Shaw


Buck
WHAT YOU SAID!!!!!!
RIGHT ON.

Vote Life, VOTE MCCAIN
Vote LIFE, vote McCain

Veterans defend our right to worship.

http://Vets4McCain.com

The Democrats
in Congress are just being the petty politicizing spoilsports they always are, no surprises there. The thing is though, the Congress is NOT entitled to wonder why its approval rating is LOWER than the President's.

-Trentamj

The Pope
Amanda shouldn't lower herself to politicize the Pope. He is for all, liberal or conservative. The Pope is for religion and would be disgusted with actions such as this.

At a recent House hearing, Rep. Linda Sanchez (D-CA) noted that children at immigrant detention facilities have reportedly been “put in cells alone for hours, awakened in the middle of the night with flashlights in their faces and threatened with being permanently separated from their parents.”

The Pope, I'm sure will tell Bush that to bomb Iran would be evil.

Democrats Block Resolution to Commend Po
Since when does the Senate need to confirm a visit to the White House. Can't the President have guests like you and I invite guests into our house?

Leave it to Democrats to make everything political. I hope I'm alive when Jesus returns because He just might deal with them in loving ways that they don't have the foggiest idea that exist.

I'm not speaking for the Lord, of course, but according to what is written in my handbook of faith, someday every knee shall bow and everyh tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord.

Vengeance on my part? Call it what you want but I look forward to Jesus' dealing with God haters. A flick of the tongue and they will need ash trays that overflow throughout eternity. Very intolerant isn't it?

I wondered
what pressing business was keeping congress from working on let's say judicial appointments that have languished for 2 years...or a trade agreement with our ally Columbia.
Since 2006 they seem to have been too busy passing nonbinding resolutions, calling for invvestigations and arguing over who they won't honor. But then their leadership seems to spend more time on the steps in front of the microphones than actually in the chambers.

PolMSGT
Enjoyed your post! Wish I could have said it that well.

Praise America? So out of touch. So out of style. So un-progressive.

MrRoy

"I'm not speaking for the Lord, of course, but according to what is written in my handbook of faith, someday every knee shall bow and everyh tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord."

Really won't Bush be judged very hard for the Iraq war?


Is the war that has been announced against Iraq a just war?
“All I can do is invite you to read the Catechism,” [the present Pope when he was still] Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger replied with a mischievous grin, “and the conclusion seems obvious to me…”

For the guardian of Catholic orthodoxy, the obvious conclusion is that the military intervention that is taking shape “has no moral justification” (September 20, interview on the Italian national news program). The Catechism, Ratzinger [now Benedict] explained, does not embrace a pacifist position a priori; indeed, it admits the possibility of a “just war” for reasons of defense. But it sets a number of very strict and reasonable conditions: there must be a proper proportion between the evil to be rooted out and the means employed. In short, if in order to defend a value (in this case, national security) greater damage is caused (civilian victims, destabilization of the Middle East, with its accompanying risks of increased terrorism), then recourse to force is no longer justified. In light of these criteria, Ratzinger refuses to grant the moral status of just war to the military operation against Saddam Hussein.

[He] . . . added another consideration: “Decisions like this should be made by the community of nations, by the UN, and not by an individual power.” '

God Bless America
I'd like to see a split screen 527 ad put up by some Conservative group.

On one side would be Rev. "Leroy" Wright of the Church of What's Happenin' Now, screaming "GOD [BLEEP] AMERICAN!" and on the other side (the right side of course) His Holiness, who ended his talk at the White House welcoming ceremony with the words "GOD BLESS AMERICA."

Present both sides and let the public choose.

P.S. If you want to see 'bitter' just wait til Obama loses the election and take a good look at Mrs. Obama. That woman's Sista Souljah Moment referring to wanting us to know "where Me and Barak are at" made the rounds yesterday and she's just got a molecule-thick veneer over a street [bleep]. Fascinating.

Who is it?
Ok Amanda, get back to your sources and tell us WHICH Democrat senators are holding this up. Instead of firing us all up but not helping us to direct our ire, give us specifics so we can write some letters and make some calls to express our opinions.

Vic

Wording of the resolution
"a faith nourished by a constitutional commitment to religious liberty that neither attempts to strip our public spaces of religious expression nor denies the ultimate source of our rights and liberties"

I find the wording of the resolution very ironic in view of the fact that liberal politicians and judges are trying their damndest to strip our public spaces of religious expression (Christian, that is) and deny the ultimate source of our rights and liberties. (And it ain't Allah.)

Which Dem senators
are holding this resolution up?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's such great practicing Catholics as Ted "The Swimmer" Kennedy, known for his love of human life (except for Mary Jo Kopechne and unborn babies) and John "I served in Vietnam" Kerry, who claims to have been an altar boy.

When they fall from the tree, boy, do they fall far and hard.

Why?
So why do 45-55% of the Catholics vote for Democrats that despise them?

The reason is they are not really Catholics.

The Pope
What is the big deal about a man that claims to be something that he is not. He has no Biblical authority for the claim that he is the Vicar of Christ. The whole Catholic organization is an invention of man, not God, and is an insult to the true Church that Jesus established, not on Peter but upon Himself, Jesus Christ. Jesus himself is the Rock as is clear from the Scriptures. The Catholic organization has no resemblance to the true New Testament Church that Christ loves and gave Himself to redeem from this present evil world. Psalm 12 verse 8 sums it up very well: "The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted." The Pope is a vile man and is deceiving millions with his false doctrine. He will be judged accordingly!

waste of space
so, carpenter takes the account of one unnamed "reliable" source and prints it as fact? no corroboration, didn't even ask a democrat if it was true, didn't even name an obstructionist or anything. how do we even know that the text she quoted was actually the passage they object to? tell me this...how is it that democrats are so against commending the pope, but a resolution passed a democrat-controlled house of reps? explain that one. sounds to me that there's a LOT more to the non-story than she's printing, but her goal probably isn't to print the whole truth. she just wants to rile people up about nothing, as usual.

DEMS
What do you exspect LIBS to do, They have been in charge of Congress now for about 2 yrs and all they have done is make illegals richer by passing the MINIMUM WAGE HIKE.

King LIB do you think that this DO NOTHING DEM LED CONGRESS ought to be judged on lieing to the American People for telling them that if they elect them in 06 that they would bring the TROOPS HOME? Well they are still their almost 2 yrs later.

What do people exspect when Christianity is under attack and LIBS sit back and do nothing because they hate CHRISTIANITY and always blaming the RELIGIOUS RIGHT for the LEFTS FAILURES in this country.

King LIB
Can you tell me what LIBS in Congress has done to fight TERRORISM around the World. The only thing I see that LIBS have done is try and GIVE TERRORIST the Rights that American civilians have. Support terrorism over thier own US TROOPS.

They get photo ops with DICTATORS around the World and the get HUGS and KISSES from TERRORIST

So whats your point, he is no better than LIBS in THE DO NOTHING DEM LED CONGRESS

Ground Zero
Pope Benedict will honor our fallen at Ground Zero. The Popes actions will provide comfort and hope to all Catholics and others who lost their loved ones on that horrible day. Congressional Democrats don't want to commend the Pope. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE????????

The current conflict in Iraq

is not a war with Iraq. It is a defense of the neophyte democratic government of Iraq. It is entirely different from the effort to depose Saddam Hussein, which effort involved very little loss of life. The loss of life since the U.S. invasion of Iraq has mostly been of terrorist attackers or of civilians and U.S. military members being killed by terrorists' IEDs and suicide bombers.

I have never heard that the current situation in Iraq has been addressed by the papacy. The Holy Father could address it by saying it would be immoral to desert the duly elected government of Iraq in their time of need.

Jerry and 40,000 other Christian

sects attack the authenticity of the Roman Catholic Church. What else is new?

It is amusing that Jerry and others like him think that Jesus wanted 40,000 different versions of the truth. It is even more amusing that such people think that Jesus could not figure out how to keep His followers unified. The amusement grows as one realizes that the only way to ensure unity is to give authority that has responsibility for determining what followers of Jesus will teach and preach.

The alternative to the Papacy is obvious. We cannot fail to see it. It is 40,000 different churches all claiming to speak for Jesus.

Go ahead, believe such an absurdity. Just do not think delude yourself into believeing clear thinking individuals will be influenced by such irrationality.

Jerry Writes
Jerry, why such vitriol thrown at the Pope. You seem to have knowledge of Christianity, so I suspect you are a practicing Christian. Maybe of the Joh Hagee variety that preaches hatred against his fellow followers of Christ.
Seeming how you have been misled about Jesus stating on this Rock I build my Church. However I do ask your forefiveness and indulgence if my spelling is incorrect.
The translation of the word rock from Greek is Pietro or as we would know as Peter. On this Rock I build mt Church, The 1st Bishop of Rome.
The Catholic Church taught 1st centurty Christianity. Simply stated, tradition and doctine has been passed down from the people that were there with Jesus throught the Catholic (Universal) Church. It wasn't until Henry the VII was not granted a divorce and Martin Luther was shunned by the Church hierarchy, perhaps wrongly, I don't really know, did other forms of Christianity come about. It still happens today even with the storefront church you attend Jerry that started a few weeks ago. You simply get a few guys to read the bible, interpretate it any way they like, rent a storefront and BINGO I have a New Church. Where do you susoect your church will be in 2,000 years

New Parody
my blog! "Angst for the Centuries" a la Bob Hope! Enjoy!

Democrats...
Democrats...have never met a religous figure they like. Any religious figure makes them bitter-er. That is of course unless that figure represents Islam. Why then even Hill and Pelosi ...cover their heads.

How the hell did we ever get to these evil overlords being in public office much less campaign to be POTUS and running this country?

God help us all!!!!!!!!!!!!

a corrupt king liberal
If this corrupt king sees our Pope as such a failure, it would seem he's a Catholic in mortal sin, not a king.

There is no excuse for coming on a Town Hall and disparaging the leader of all the Christian faithful as "king liberal" does.

we all know the main reason
How can the Democrats hide their shameless hypocrisy anymore?

Everybody knows they've stopped being public servants. They serve only the abortion lobby and its evil twin sister, militant feminism. Saying so makes us dirty Chauvinist and sexist pigs.

OK, since the fat's in the fire, let me go the whole nine yards.

The most counter-productive thing that ever happened to America was universal sufferage. Tragedy resulted inevitably after women were given the vote in this country. If a feminist is onboard; let her correct me. I welcome being corrected. I only wish Hillary were here to take up the challenge.

Bill Wheelen 1:06P
Hey, Bill, typo! It was Henry VIII. There was more to it than just the divorce. But, I am not here to argue about it.

I am happy with the visit from the Pope. I have the utmost respect for him and have taken time to watch him on TV when he gave his speech at the WH yesterday, the mass last night, and the mass today in the stadium. No, I am not a Catholic. I see the Pope as a great religious leader, a man of faith.

Go back a little further than the first Bishop declaring himself Pope; and, you will see seven Bishops of the original church. Check history, church and secular, as to what brought about that change before you go further with your argument.

Additionally, look at the list of Protestant Churches and their leaders that Pope Benedict XVI is meeting with. My church is included. (Note those he is not.) He is a Christian leader who is working to bring unity to Christianity, which would benefit us all.

I will tell you that I do not belong to John Hagee's church. I do know that statements or rumors of statements attributed to him are false. I don't think we should bear false witness against any man who is a Christian any more than I think we should tolerate the false witness of those who are not. If you know of the specific statement, where and to whom made by John Hagee, I would be most appreciative to get it to verify it myself. I note that you did not mention the late Falwell or Robertson. You will note that I have asked you nothing about them.

I do not belong to a storefront church or a drive-through church. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. I know that my Redeemer lives.

Will Amanda soon roll over me?
OK, after my last post, all hell ought to break loose. Amanda Carpenter won't like it.

I know she's against the abortion lobby.

(Present company excepted ?) No, DN. You're a Chauvinist pig.

It was passed today, instead.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/17/politics/politico /thecrypt/main4024117.shtml

They passed it after changing language that Senator Barbara Boxer objected to, specifically, the language that the pope values "each and every human life," according to the news story.

Boxer - figures
What a doofus Boxer is. How can someone object to that phrase EVEN IF IT IS a veiled reference to abortion? There's nothing false or objectionable about it.

Thanks for the link Calston, but now I'm even more bitter.

Peas in a pod
That's strange the dems would object. The Democrats and the pope seem to have the same motto in life. Let someone else pay. They demand all of these feel good social program and expect the American taxpayers to pay. The wealthiest instiution in the world and they expect others to carry their water.
Try taking care of your own people for once and stop giving other people lectures on compassion. You have the best schools, churches and hospitals. But it's never been about humanity. The poorest neighborhoods that need the most help are the ones to have their schools, churches and hospitals closed first.
So take that circus on down the road, I'm not paying.

Bill Wheelen wrote:
"... and Martin Luther was shunned by the Church hierarchy"

Luther was "shunned" because he had the audacity to object to the church granting "indulgences" where the rich could pay money in order to be allowed to "sin" as they chose. His posting against that practice lead to the slpit and eventiual establishement of the Protestant church.

Now I ask you: does that story remind you of something going on right now?

Yep, ALGORE, his deciples and the followers of the Church of Global Warming are also granted "indulgences" just they call it by a different name.

Good comments
Buck... Thanx for taking out the trash. king liberal is a brainless punk.

Audi... Can't wait! oblahma's dumber half is embarrassing. She's a frosted dog turd.

Jerry... Dam! I can see your argument concerning the veracity of the Catholic faith, Bill Wheelen's comment noted, but vile? Is it not possible the Pope is perhaps misled, but a good man nonetheless? If, as you say, the Pope is a fraud and therefore vile... are you of the opinion that all Catholics are vile? Catholics run a lot of hospitals and charities.

Think about it.

dreadnaught
No, the real tragedy began when men like you permitted wimmin to wear shoes, and some [bleep] invented birth control that she could take without his permission.

Now, don't you have to get back to that sex compound in Texas and marry some more little girls?

Barabara Boxer is a disgrace
to womanhood. She supports partial birth abortion and has ardently defended any and all abortions. I give up on the State of California if all it can produce is this useless creature.

Boxer is one of the dumbest
women in congress and has no problem with all the GIRL BABIES that get aborted.

ZedsMom
I thank you for your comments and yes VII was a typo and should be VIII. My comments were a little out of context on Martin Luther. You will note I said I was not really sure
You are absolutely correct about the Pope. He is all about Unity of the faith's, but people such as Jerry on this thread and John Hagee prefer to preach hatred and division and that they alone know the truth. If you have to insult and denigrate people to make your arguments, then there must be a problem with the argument.
Here are some of the things said by Hagee in his own book: “In Hagee’s latest book, Jerusalem Countdown, he calls Hitler a Catholic who murdered Jews while the Catholic Church did nothing. ‘The sell-out of Catholicism to Hitler began not with the people but with the Vatican itself,’ he writes.
Hitler of course was a Pagan.
Go to this you tube and listen to Hagee himself
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uViQ0hVV57Q
The man is a hater plain and simple

Jerry
You wrote:"an insult to the true Church that Jesus established, not on Peter but upon Himself..."

What church are you citing as the "true" church?
Just curious.

AUDI
Enjoyed your posts today- hadn't seen you in awhile.

Your 527 ad would say it ALL.

As for Mrs. Obama, I see she's out of whatever undisclosed location she was in and making the rounds, as you say. Probably been being briefed by some media consultant on how NOT to give away your true thoughts.

I predict she'll manage to sprinkle a dash of "how much we love our country" into all her appearances forthwith, just as Mr. Obama had lots of great big flags behind him right after the pastor disastor. I heard he even had a lapel pin, but I don't know if he actually caved that far.


"Democrats Block Resolution..."
I really hate to say this, but the Democrats really are low-life scum. To object to the language "... witnessing to the value of each and every human life;" is beyond my comprehension. Of course, this comes from Barbara Boxer (a Clinton relative by marriage, BTW), who is the biggest roadblock to eliminating partial-birth abortion in this country. After all, someone sucked her brains out decades ago, and she is still going, so how horrible of a procedure can it be?

DUMBOS
When we say that LIBS care more for ISLAM and TERRORIST RIGHTS I think now after all this people will have to come to the conclusion that LIBS are More for the enemy than they are for their OWN COUNTRY.

They have blocked everything that this country has tried to do to TERRORIST and Protecting AMERICA.

I now can see why they wont pass the FISA ACT,
they dont want to catch TERRORIST they just want to bust the PRESIDENTS B#LLS and believe he is the only TERRORIST they should care about.

DONT EVER TELL ME THAT LIBS DONT APPEASE THE ENEMY

Answer to Bill Wheelen
Just a short answer to a couple of your remarks. It is ironic that you used the word Bingo in your reply. The local Catholic church has Las Vegas night once a year to raise funds. There is open gambling involved. What do you think that Jesus would do if He came back and found this kind of activity taking place in what is supposed to be His house of worship? He cleansed the temple a couple of times and ran the money changers out with a whip. Interesting, huh? You also asked where my church would be in 2000 years. I believe that we will be in Heaven with our Saviour long before that! My place of worship is also not a store front! It was started 27 years ago by our Pastor as he was led by the Lord. It is a New Testament Independent Baptist church that answers to no higher authority than the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the over-shepard and our Pastor is the under-shepard. Our final authority is the Bible and it has been sufficient for us and true Christians for over 2000 years. Last question? Can you truthfully look at the Catholic organization with all its phony pomp and glory and believe that it is the true Church of Jesus Christ?? If so, you are truly deceived and in danger of losing your eternal soul!!

Jerry Writes
So your Church has been in "business" for 27 years. And the way you bash catholics is not unlike Jerimiah Write bashes Whites, jews and America. So are we to assume you come from a church that preaches hate towards your fellow man. I hope you have a shot at heaven, but I would look at my hatred toward other believers in Christ and take a long hard look at the potential of false teachings from a snake oil salesman that refers to himself as Pastor. What you are spouting here is hatred and ignorant hatred at that.
Pay attention now Jerry you may actually learn something instead of hatred.
The catholic church was formed by Jesus Christ and bequeathed, for lack of a better term to Peter and the Apostle. Jesus blew the Holy Spirit into them, or is that deleted from your "Pastors" bible. Now go and spread the word. Jesus also told Peter that the Holy Spirit will guide him and the church. That my dear boy is Papal infallability, not that the Pope can never be wrong in life, but not on matters of Church Doctrine and teachings. He is guided by the holy spirit, not by the devil that preached hatred of his fellow man

Jerry Writes
So your Church has been in "business" for 27 years. And the way you bash catholics is not unlike Jerimiah Write bashes Whites, jews and America. So are we to assume you come from a church that preaches hate towards your fellow man. I hope you have a shot at heaven, but I would look at my hatred toward other believers in Christ and take a long hard look at the potential of false teachings from a snake oil salesman that refers to himself as Pastor. What you are spouting here is hatred and ignorant hatred at that.
Pay attention now Jerry you may actually learn something instead of hatred.
The catholic church was formed by Jesus Christ and bequeathed, for lack of a better term to Peter and the Apostle. Jesus blew the Holy Spirit into them, or is that deleted from your "Pastors" bible. Now go and spread the word. Jesus also told Peter that the Holy Spirit will guide him and the church. That my dear boy is Papal infallability, not that the Pope can never be wrong in life, but not on matters of Church Doctrine and teachings. He is guided by the holy spirit, not by the devil that preached hatred of his fellow man

Jerry,

I would expect the true Church to thrive,to grow and to trace its origins to Jesus. I would not expect it to create itself in the 20th century with the defiant yell of, we are the only authority on earth we recognize.

So, I guess we totally disagree on what the true Church is.

I prefer one with a history of serving Jesus. You prefer one that started itself.

Answer to Eddie Too and Bill Wheelen
Eddie Too talks of unity in the Catholic church. I don't think what is occuring today is the unity Jesus intended. Many Catholics ignore the doctrines of the Church in many areas. Prominent politicians, for example, that are Catholics say that abortion is okay. This one example is sufficient but there are many more. Bill Wheelen alludes to the scripture Matthew chapter 16 to try to show that Peter was the Rock on which Christ built His church. When Jesus referred to Peter in verse 18 He used "Petros" meaning little rock. When referring to the Rock upon which He would build His Church, he used "Petra" meaning Himself. This is verified by Peter himself in 1 Peter 2:4 thru 9. Also in the book of Acts when major decisions were made, James, not Peter was the one with the final word. Open your eyes and mind to the truth of the scriptures and not some man of men that are deceiving you!!

Of note to me...
... is the fact that in his speech on America's love of freedom, the pope mentioned that every town in the country has a memorial to those who have fallen in freedom's defense. It seems he is closer to the pulse of rural America than a certain candidate for the presidency.
Boxer is simply a disgrace... to the Senate, the country, the human race. Brownback should have let the resolution fail, just to signify that fact.
You'd think the know-nothings could give it a rest for a week. I'm guessing 'DA' doesn't stand for 'District Attorney.'

Jerry,

the fact that there are people who should be Catholic and claim to be Catholic but refuse to follow Catholic teaching is a scandal and God will deal with them. However, it does not diminish the truth of what the Church teaches.

Jesus gave the authority to bind on earth to His apostles. They passed it on to their successors. Jesus established Peter's supremacy of first among equals and the apostles and their successors have affirmed this truth.

Without the Pope, we have 40,000 Christian sects in the this country all teaching different things and claiming their teachings are correct. I cannot believe that this is what Jesus wanted. I cannot believe that Jesus could not foresee this occcurring. I cannot believe that Jesus could not found a Church that could prevent this from occurring.

Dear Maggie:
Above you stated:
"Luther was "shunned" because he had the audacity to object to the church granting "indulgences" where the rich could pay money in order to be allowed to "sin" as they chose."


REPLY:

Not at all. You, like many other protestants, have no clue about the meaning of an indulgence. It never was any "allowance" to sin because you paid money. Before posting the ignorance of so many self-ordained ministers about Catholics, do some investigation.


Luther was excommunicated for rebellion against the Pope, and he was warned to stop. (Even though he actually saw abuses.) You should find the whole truth before posting. Nobody sins all he wants by buying an indulgence; what a crock ! Do you truly think Catholics are that stupid ?

Response to Jerry
So your Church has been in "business" for 27 years. And the way you bash catholics is not unlike Jerimiah Write bashes Whites, jews and America. So are we to assume you come from a church that preaches hate towards your fellow man. I hope you have a shot at heaven, but I would look at my hatred toward other believers in Christ and take a long hard look at the potential of false teachings from a snake oil salesman that refers to himself as Pastor. What you are spouting here is hatred and ignorant hatred at that.
Pay attention now Jerry you may actually learn something instead of hatred on my next post.

Jerry Post 2
The catholic church was formed by Jesus Christ and bequeathed, for lack of a better term to Peter and the Apostle. Jesus blew the Holy Spirit into them, or is that deleted from your "Pastors" bible. Now go and spread the word. Jesus also told Peter that the Holy Spirit will guide him and the church. That my dear boy is Papal infallability, not that the Pope can never be wrong in life, but not on matters of Church Doctrine and teachings. He is guided by the holy spirit, not by the devil that preached hatred of his fellow man
In addition the bible has been the guide for true Christians for 2000 years. Who were the Chritians 2000 years ago? I will save you the trouble it was the Catholics.
I can absolutely believe in Catholicism 150%. For one the Church does not change for what is popular. It stays with tradition and the word of God. Also a fact most people do not know, so I know you don't know it, is through the readings done at Mass every Sunday, the Catholic Church actually does more from the Bible at our weekly services that any other denomination. In addition to our readings many of our prayer come directly from the Bible, such as the story of the Centurion.
Unlike your Church and Pastor we do not judge as to whether you will lose your eternal soul because you go to the wrong church. As long as you brought that up what happens to the Jews? Are they all condemned to eternal damnation? I am not talking about Barbra Boxer, it is a safe bet where she will end up. Jerry, get a clue and then I would question your Pastor. He is teaching your congregation hatred not the love of God

Jerry and zedmom,

we are confronted with a dispute of fact. I believe the New Testament adequately establishes that Jesus made Peter first ammong equals.

You do not. I will stand by my belief that the only way to ensure unity is to give one person authority over all. Anything else will produce dissent, confusion and division. Jesus did not want any of these problems in His church. Consequently, it makes perfect sense that He would establish a hierarchy in His church and that His followers would ensure that future generations would have access to the same Church as had been passed on to them. Anything else seems to me to be a shallow and incorrect understanding of the Church.

I don't know what's worse...
Boxer being so pro-death she couldn't abide that language, or the RepubicRATs being so spineless they caved.

jerry is totally wrong
Peter is the Rock upon which Christ builds His Church. Don't SPIN the words of Jesus, Jerry. It's a sin.

You were taught these false ideas by men who came to a false ministry because they no longer were under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Only ONE Church has the Holy Spirit for her Advocate; the Catholic Church. Others are condemned by Paul in Galatians 1, :9 / including yours.

It's sorrowful for Jesus to see how self-ordained men are aligned against His own holy Church. Bear in mind, Jerry: All your own blessed ancestors were Catholics. They were ripped off of the true faith by false reformers. YOUR ancestors.

Jerry
Because Baby killers like Kennedy and Pelosi and the rest of them claim to be Catholic, does not come even remotely close to what the Church teaches. You kepp on going on and on about Catholics following a man and all you do is regurgitate the vile sermons of your Jeremiah Wright type Pastor.
I would appreciate it that you keep your hatred and vile statements to yourself. You are acting no better than the fanatics of Islam. If I don't believe as you do I am condemned. When will you start to convert us by the sword because we are infidels that don't believe as you. Look at what you say and say it is not so

Here is a question?
Can Christians gain salvation outside of the Catholic Church? I know what my answer is, but would be curious to hear what others think.

ah, dreadnaught
"Do you truly think Catholics are that stupid ?"

Dreadnaught, you post the things you post and then post a question like that?? Do you REALLY want an answer?

bob,

what do you mean by "outside the Catholic Church".

The Catholic Church is God's tool for saving the souls of human beings. However, I believe people will be judged on two things. First, how they informed their conscience. Second, how they lived in accord with their conscience.

Catholics of course have the advantage of receiving forgiveness in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. This means that Catholics who violate their conscience are given a second chance after receiving absolution.

I leave it in God's hands to decide what happens to people who do not have access to the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

really eddie?
"I believe people will be judged on two things. First, how they informed their conscience. Second, how they lived in accord with their conscience."

What Bible verse do you get this from ?

Marine's Dad
You are 100 per cent correct. Nothing is surprising about Boxer and the Dems. getting all in a tizzy concerning the Christian faith and the Pope.

But let a voice be raised in objection to abortion rights or the rights of homosexuals and they act like some terrible sin has been commited. The murder of babies and any type of alternative life style they have no problem with. It's just Christians and the Pope the Boxer crowd has no use for.

One of the most despicable people in America today is Barbara Boxer. If she held the office of Dog Catcher it would be suitable. However, she holds the rank of United States Senator and it's a disgrace to the nation.

Reply to Bob
Bob asks:

"Here is a question?
Can Christians gain salvation outside of the Catholic Church? I know what my answer is, but would be curious to hear what others think."

First-- Who do you mean, saying Christians ? A Christian can be a Catholic or a non-Catholic. The real Christian is the Catholic in a state of grace. His sins are forgiven and he is in sanctifiying grace. This is the teaching of the Church.

Another is the non-Catholic who is also forgiven by God for all his sins. This can be for various reasons. Usually they come under the names Faith, Hope, Charity. It still means DESPITE not having known the Holy Gospel as taught by the apostles. (You know; like 29,000 autonomous sects who all believe their Bible; who all reject the Catholic Church.) --This is a serious deficiency in the faith.

But with God nothing is impossible. And, He wishes for all men to be saved. The only thing standing between them and salvation is sin. All must show God perfect contrition for all sin. He will not accept less.

verbivore,

That is not taken from Sacred Scripture. Do you have a problem with what I said?

verbivore,

the only obligation a Catholic has is to follow his or her properly formed conscience.

verbivore,

I suppose I should add that a properly formed conscience cannot be contrary to the dogmatic and moral teachings of the Church.

War and Popes
Throughout history, Popes never had their own armies and relied on powerful secular protectors. Since Hamas declared war on the Pope right before he came, that may well be a topic he discussed with President Bush. lol
I'll bet Boxer relies on Catholic votes. he he

Limbo and Pergatory
Sorry to make a sick joke, but the use of limbo here is kind of strange because they purged the reference to human life and then put it into limbo as you say.

The pope would never send you to both.

THis is very anti catholic.

(Joke)

Eddie
"That is not taken from Sacred Scripture. Do you have a problem with what I said?"

Yes, I do.

But why don't you talk it over with Bob, I have a feeling he's just stirring up trouble to watch it spin.


Bill Wheelen
Let me set you straight about my Pastor. He has never preached hate against anyone, Catholics included. And for you to compare him to Jeremiah Wright is very offensive. My Pastor preaches that we should hate the sin but love and pray for the sinner. If my comments, which are based on scripture, offend you, that is good. It could mean that the Holy Spirit is speaking to your heart. He just might be dealing with you about coming out of the false system you are involved with. One more thing. If Kennedy, Polosi and other Catholics are sinning by disobeying the Church teachings, why are they allowed to keep partaking of Communion and not "churched" by their priests as they should be?? Isn't there any church discipline in the Catholic church?? I have yet to hear or read of any Catholic Priest, Cardinal or any other church official coming straight out and condemning Kennedy, Pelosi or any of the others! Why? Your comparing us to Islam is totally absurd! If any so called Christian organization could be compared with Islam, it would be the Catholics. Look at the "inquisition" and what the Catholic Church did. Millions were killed in many ungodly ways just for not believing as the Catholics did. And you have the nerve to "compare" true believers to Islam! You're way off base!

Bill Wheelen
You ask in one of your posts as to who were the true Christians 2000 years ago? You say that they were Catholics. One question? Then who were the men and women that were executed by the authority of the Catholic church because they didn't believe like the Catholics?? I say to you that these are the true Christians and through them was the true Church of Jesus passed down through the ages. There is nothing in the Bible to establish an organization like the Catholic church. The majority of their doctrine has been invented by man and is a stench in the nostrils of an almighty God. I also noticed that you didn't answer my question about "Las Vegas" night at the local Catholic church. I'll ask again. What do you think Jesus would do if He came back and walked into what is supposed to be His house of worship while such as "Las Vegas" night was taking place? Do you approve of this type of thing, Wheelen??

Catholic in name only
Anybody who professes to be a catholic that will allow, condone, advocate abortion at any stage of development is (1) ignorant of their faith, or (2) being disingenuous.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is very clear on the pro-life issue.
You cannot be both pro-life and a catholic in good standing.
We hate the sin, but love the sinner.
I pray that nominal catholics see the error of their ways.
Unfortunately, we have many born into their faith and they don't really understand the basic doctrine.

One of the reasons that I converted to catholicism was because of their sanctity of life position. The churches position has been unwavering for 2000 years.

By the way, it is a mortal sin to knowingly vote for someone that is an abortion advocate.

The BODY is the Temple.
'The real Christian is the Catholic in a state of grace.' This means that you don't think you can be Christian without being Catholic. That is not from scripture, and it is quite vain. VANITY is one of the deadly sins according to Catholics, AND Catholics are most in violation of VANITY of religion.

1 Cor. 6:19-20 "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?"

This means EVERY CHRISTIAN PERSON is a 'church' for Christ. The Church is not a group of priests or a hierarchy. The Church is not an ornate building. Christians NEVER LEAVE THE CHURCH - the church is with them, in them, through them.

And Catholics were the FIRST PROTESTANTS because the Orthodox Church was the original church with apostolic succession (as though that may be important for some reason. . . but as many Catholic doctrines, it is really extra-Biblical). The Catholics broke from the Orthodox Church originally and became corrupt.

My main issue with the Catholic Church is #1, their vanity and arrogance claiming an extra-biblical monopoly on salvation. And #2, their glorification of Mary who is in no sense whatsoever Divine. . . NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE.




Dreadnaught
You reference Galatians 1:9 to show that my church is condemned. Paul is writing here by inspiration of the Holy Spirit that if anyone preaches ANOTHER GOSPEL other than what was received through him, Paul, let that one be accursed. In an earlier verse Paul says even if it is an angel from heaven, he too would be accursed. The Gospel is explained in 1Cor15 and is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is exactly what is preached and taught by our Pastor every Sunday morning and many have believed and gotten saved. So you cannot use Galations 1:9 as a proof text that all churches except the Catholic church are condemned! Sorry try again!

Who speaks for the catholic church?
Jerry,

The MSM is too quick to put a microphone in the face of a liberal priest that does not follow the teachings of the catholic church.

Unfortunately, the devil succeeds in confusing the faithful to doubt their faith when this happens.

I wish you could hear Fr John Riccardo, someone who knows the Bible and the churches teachings.
He tackles ALL of the tough issues and speaks the unwavering, sometimes hurtful, truth.

The catholic church does not even allow birth control pills. This is a sin. Does it get talked about?

Fr Riccardo talks about it and more.

Pope Benedict speaks the truth. Seek out those that are following his teachings.

Do yourself a favor and read the "Ratzinger Report". To the core of truth.

And Jerry, you are right - gambling has no place as a fundraiser for a church. There are many churches that don't succumb to this temptation.


Thacker -Nice Try
1st the Orthodox Church cannot trace its roots back to St Peter, only the Church of Rome can. Peter, the 1st Bishop of Rome was "The Rock" which Christ promise to build his Church. The Eastern Rite, full of pride and intellectual hubris, refused to serve under the Church of Rome. It was already in decline, and less than 400 years after its break, it easily fell to the Muslims.

Secondly, you really need to read the Catholic Cathechism before you make bold assertions. The Church never taught that the Church was just physical. Perhaps you need to read up on the theology behind the Mystical Body of Christ.

A spiritual breath of fresh air..
I'm not Catholic, but see the Pontiff's visit as a positive spiritual celebration, overall, including his biblical morality speeches..

Just one issue I wish he had avoided..the Pope's exhortion.. Immigration Policy meddling.. Essentially, he encouraged the US to welcome the (continual millions $$$$$$$ of) Illegal Aliens..and make them All feel at home..
No doubt, the Dems and el Presidente would approve of that message..

PS.. Vatican City is a sovereign "state" with fortified borders, in a country which is broken & fragmented.. due to It's lax borders..

The Church Came First, Then The Bible
There were no Holy Scriptures until the 4th Century. About 50 years after Christ died there was the Didache, sometimes dubbed the 1st Cathechism. The Didache was used as a teaching tool. The oldest reference of the Catholic Mass is dated about 70 years after Christ died. There were also references to purgatory (a Jewish belief that Catholics kept).

The only way to prevent confusion, schism, heresey in the Church was a set of beliefs and dogmas that were later dubbed Holy Tradition. Holy Tradition goes all the way back to the Apostles. From the very beginning, heresey and bickering reigned supreme. The only thing that kept the Church together for 300 years was Holy Tradition. BTW, Holy Tradition does not contradict Holy Scriptures. Anyone who reads the Catechism will find abundant scriptual references for all of our beliefs.

Pope John Paul II
We are very fortunate to have lived during his papacy. This Pope accomplished much to advance peace in the world. He was not afraid to speak the truth wherever he went. And, he was the most traveled Pope.

Pope Benedict is an intellectual that could rival St Thomas Aquinas.

Did you know that the second most read book in the world next to the bible is "The Imitation of Christ" by St Thomas a Kempis?

Trustworthy
I agree with your comments in respect to abortion. But your statement that some are born into their faith is way off base! How can a little baby have faith. I believe you meant that some are born into families that believe certain ways. Salvation is not inherited, not by works of the flesh or through intelligence of man. John 1:13 makes this apparent! We are born again not of blood (inheritance), nor by the will of the flesh (works), nor of the will of man (intelligence). We are all born again by the work of the Holy Spirit as He convicts us that we are sinners and in need of a Saviour. Then He points us to Jesus Christ and His finished work on Calvary! We are saved by grace, we learn by grace and we are kept by grace. Our security in Christ is eternal and we receive assurance of this truth through the promises given in the scriptures. Amen and amen!

Why should we be surprised
Its nut case Barbara Boxer from nut case California..She has abortion on the brain, and does not have a clue about what someone like the Pope stands for. I am not Catholic, but certainly our government should treat his visit with respect. The democrats are totally lost, look at what Jimmy Carter is doing, what Pelosi has done in forming their own state department...What total nuts these people are..May God help us..

Faith is a concious act
Jerry,

You are right again.

What I meant was that some that are born into catholic families or other faiths for that matter don't always study or know their faith.

My point is directed toward catholics.

You will seldom find a daily communicant that would advocate abortion. Many catholics that don't go to church or practice their faith comprise most of the abortion supporters.

Only 25% believe in transubstantiation.

The apostle's creed is core to the catholic faith.Too many do not fully comprehend this statement of faith.

Catholics have liberals & conservatives
Islam has liberals and conservatives
Judaism has liberals and conservatives

We can't paint with a broad brush.

Jpk
If what you say about the Diache/ First Cathechism and the First Catholic Mass and the period of time they occured, then why didn't God have at least one of the writers of the New Testament say something about them? Jesus had many things to say about "tradition" and most of it was negative. In Matthew 15:6 Jesus says that the commandment of God has been made of none effect by tradition. Many other places say basically the same thing. Enough of the teachings of Jesus were passed down through the Apostles and His followers to keep the true Church alive and well. If Peter was truly the first Pope, so to speak, why was it James that had the last word on the issues brought before the council in Jerusalem?? Also Peter acknownledged that Jesus was the Rock on which the Church would be built in 1 Peter 2:4-8.

FORGIVE THE CAPS
JERRY.

STOP YOUR NONSENSE --
"didn't God have at least one of the writers of the New Testament say something about them? Jesus had many things to say about "tradition" and most of it was negative. In Matthew 15:6 Jesus says that the commandment of God has been made of none effect by tradition."

THE SCRIPTURES ARE FOR TEACHING AND GIVING US LIGHT. THE CHURCH IS FOR OUR DOCTRINAL TRUTH AGAINST ALL CONTROVERSY.

REMEMBER THAT UPON CONTROVERSY THE BIBLE ALONE IS SILENT. THE SCRIPTURE ALONE IS HELPLESS AGAINST YOUR MISUNDERSTANDING. IN THE CHURCH IS FULL UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION AS WELL. WITHOUT HER, MEN GO ASTRAY.

CHRIST ONLY CRITICIZED THE TRADITION OF PHARISEES. HIS OWN CHURCH HAS THE HOLY SPIRIT, TO GUARD BOTH SCRIPTURAL INTERPRETATION AND SACRED TRADITION AGAINST ERROR. YOU HAVE NO PROTECTION AGAINST ERROR. NONE WHATSOEVER.

YOU ARE NOT THE CHURCH, BUT AN OFFSHOOT OF HERETICAL UPRISINGS AGAINST THE CHURCH.

YOUR OWN ANCESTORS ALL WERE CATHOLICS BEFORE THE 16TH CENTURY. YOU ARE A DESCENDANT OF FAITHFUL CATHOLICS.

MY KEYBOARD WON'T CHANGE OUT OF CAPS.



fake art trumps life
Why does this suprise me, not? Dems prove willing to pander to anyone on the left, with any agenda, like the comical mimes who imitate communion or thro fake blood. They are life of any party; who could not love these guys, gals, whatever they are. Just acall 1-800 agenda 4 hire about any liberal issue. Please see our list of exceptions before you dial. In other words, do not waste our time of you could in any way, or by any stretch, be tied to the right wing conspiracy or any of its cohorts.

I'm only surprised the sect didn't add a stoning anactment. To read between the lines, I think it is really the life issue that bugs Senators. And since planned parenthood has not given the OK to permit such a thing, its best to stay mute. Or maybe they are saving it for the 12th Imam, which would be welcomed. Then in that case it could work something like Kennedy's effort to reach out to Andropov, even to arrange press, so he could undermine Reagan. Hey, that would work. And Kennedy's still their to work out the finer details.In those cases, wording of any kind would not be an issue.

There is a tremendous amount of

ignorance and confusion about Catholicism in the world. This is well evidenced here.

Dreadnaught
Let me make one thing clear. The true New Testament Church was never a part of the Catholic or the Protestant churches. And I am NOT a descendent of any Catholic, faithful or unfaithful! You also say that the Word of God is "helpless"?? What an absurd statement. The Bible says that God has magnified His Word above even His name! The Bible is what led me to believe in Jesus Christ and be saved, not some tradition invented by man. It is also ironic that you mention heretical uprisings against the Catholic church. What did the Catholic church do to those heretics during the time of the inquisition? Many of those heretics survived and they were the true New Testament Church, not the Catholics. They were called many things down through the ages, and hid in caves to survive the persecution, even death if caught. There are just too many doctrines in the Catholic church that have no Biblical basis and I have to believe that the Perfect, Preserved Word of God must be the final authority in all matters, not a man nor his tradition. I asked one of the other posters this question and I'll ask you the same: Can you truthfully look at the Catholic church and all its phony pomp and display of man's glory and really believe it is the Church that Jesus started?? If your answer is 'yes", then all I can do is feel sorry for you and pray for you! I would also like to hear your testimony as to how you came to be a Christian!

Catholic Church is the Universal Church
Catholic means universal.

Yes, Christ created the ONE Apostolic Church.

After studying many religions - the treasure trove of truth lies within the catholic church.

All other christian faiths have spun off of the catholic church - schisms.

After 2000 years, the last supper is reoccurring in every catholic church everywhere in the world in the same way every day at mass. The consecration that takes place is the body and blood of Christ!

Jesus is present in every catholic church regardless of how sinful a priest may be.
The priest is Christ's vessel. He works through all of them.

Satan comes to kill, steal & destroy.

He has been trying for over 2000 years to destroy the catholic church without success.

Trustworthy
Oh trustworthy. You are so gullible to think that God would establish His True Church in an organization like the Catholics. All Christian faiths did not come out of the Catholics as you state. The Baptists were around long before the Catholics were even thought of. This is even attested to by one of your own Cardinals, Hosius, at the Council of Trent, in 1554. Look it up and read it! Other historians admit that Baptists have existed through the ages from the time of Christ.And just when do you believe the Catholic church started? The information I have says it was about 590 by Gregory. All the Protestant churches didn't come along until about 1520 and later. Also Trustworthy, just because the Catholic church has existed for 2000 years does mean it is of God. The Muslims have existed for 1400 years. Are they of God also?? We both know how vile and corrupt their doctrine is! Lastly, the Bible teaches that there will be another Christ, another gospel, etc. The Christ that you say is in every Catholic church just might not be the One True Christ of the Bible and the gospel you teach might be the false one!

God of Abraham
Is the God of Catholics, Muslims & Jews.

Once Christ unites the Jews & Muslims, we will all be under the One apostolic Church.

Did you know that there are at least 29 different Baptist faiths? I was a part of three of them before my conversion. This is not what Jesus Christ intended for his church.

I have found the truth.
If you pray for the truth with a contrite heart -you will receive it.

All Christian's, regardless of where they worship can attain eternal salvation. It is dependent on a personal relationship with Christ.
Most important - have no unforgiveness on your soul.

Read my next post - The Miracle Prayer!


The Miracle Prayer
Lord Jesus, I come before you, just as I am, I am sorry for my sins, I repent of my sins, please forgive me.
In your name, I forgive all others for what they have done against me.
I renounce Satan, the evil spirits and all of their works.
I give you my entire self, Lord Jesus, now and forever.
I invite you into my life, Jesus.
I accept you as my Lord, God, and Savior.
Heal me, change me, strengthen me in body, soul and spirit.

Come Lord Jesus, cover me with your precious blood, and fill me with your Holy Spirit.
I love you, Lord Jesus. I praise you, Jesus.
I thank you, Jesus.
I shall follow you every day of my life!

AMEN.

May God Bless your life's journey!

Trustworthy
You show yourself to be even more gullible with your last post about the Muslims and Jews being united. You also say that the God of the Muslims is the same as Jehovah God of the Jews? Where in the world did you come up with that one? In order for you to truly believe this, you have to believe that the same God gave both our Bible and the Quran. That is totally absurd! The Muslims and Jews are a universe apart and Christians are even further apart than that, or at least should be! The only hope for the Muslims is that they be saved individually just as the Jews and anyone else must be saved! The only thing in your post that I agree with is that salvation is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. But do you truly believe that, or do you throw in baptism, works and church membership as part of salvation? Also I would like to hear more about your "conversion" under Catholism and why you weren't able to be converted under three types of the Baptist faith. You yourself say that anyone can attain eternal salvation no matter where they worship. Were you saved as a Baptist or as a Catholic?? I was gloriously save in 1976 while attending a Baptist church in Germany. I was in the Air Force then and my whole family was saved there. Nothing has been the same since then. I have stumbled many times in my Christian walk and service, but Jesus has always been faithful and has never forsaken me. As a child of God, I have been chastened many times but never disowned. God the Father cannot disown us because we are in the Beloved and secure in that position. Praise God!!

Assumptions
Jerry,

You make too many erroneous assumptions.

If you ask your Baptist minister - he will also tell you that muslims & Jews worship the God of Abraham. Most Jews & Muslims don't believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, but they all worship the God of Abraham. In fact, It was from a Baptist minister that I received this teaching.

I never said that God made the Quran?
Parts of it are from the Old Testament, though.

I, too, was in the Air Force.
Served in S/E Asia.

I never said that God would disown you. Where did that come from?

We can forsake God, and unfortunately, some unrepentant sinners do. I believe that there is a heaven and a hell.

I also believe that we can only come in God's presence in a sinless state.

Baptism cleanses us of sin, but we start sinning again. What then removes the subsequent sin? Are you to believe that a baptized Jeffrey Dahmer or Charles Manson, (assuming they are unrepentant) will go to heaven?

Next post tells of my baptism.

Baptism


The miracle prayer is a catholic prayer.
Ask your minister if he finds anything wrong with it.

I was baptized in 1983 at the age of 35.

Immediately after my baptism and confirmation and communion - I felt a strong conviction toward a pro-life ministry. I had been so-so on the subject before my conversion.

As a result, my family participated in infant fostering for many years. We finished our fostering by adopting our last bi-racial child.
The story of Michael is truly a miracle. Not enough space here to explain.

I support many pro-life organizations, crisis pregnancy centers, and pro-life candidates. I have not lost any of my passion since my baptism into the catholic church.

Jesus needs servants in every church.
I'm glad that he chose this one for me.

There are many worthy christian outreach programs. You cannot deny that catholic missionaries have done great work spreading the love of Jesus to the world. Mother Theresa is one of thousands of examples.

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