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Saturday, January 05, 2008
Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Debate Fight Night Doesn’t Disappoint
by Amanda Carpenter
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Sparks flew between the leading presidential candidates of both parties during the Saturday “fight night” debate doubleheader just three days before New Hampshire’s January 8 primary.

Hillary Clinton took shots at Barack Obama over healthcare during the Democratic debate and John McCain and Mitt Romney sparred over immigration in the GOP standoff at St. Anselm College in Manchester. And, in both of these arguments a third candidate couldn’t help but jump into the fight.

On January 3, GOP candidate Mike Huckabee and Obama left the Hawkeye state with a significant wins over their opponents. According to New Hampshire polls, however, Democrats Clinton and Obama are running nearly neck-in-neck and Republican McCain leads former Massachusetts Romney.

Iowa exit polls showed that Democratic voters indicated that “change,” a characteristic often attributed to Obama, was more important to them than “experience,” a trait Clinton has pitched to voters again and again. Debate moderator and ABC News Anchor Charles Gibson asked the two candidates to discuss “change” and “experience” which led to a discussion on their differences on universal healthcare plans.

Clinton accused Obama of changing position on the issues and said that “He could have a pretty good debate with himself.”

Obama didn’t retaliate to Clinton’s jab, but John Edwards did. Edwards, who beat Clinton in Iowa with a second place finish, interjected that Clinton was attacking Obama because because she was a sore loser. “"I didn't see this kind of attacks from Senator Clinton when she was ahead. Now that's she's not, we hear them, anytime you speak out for change, this is what happens,” Edwards said. Then, he said Clinton was aligned with the “forces of status quo.”

Clinton retorted angrily, “Making change is not about what you believe or what you say, it's about working hard.” She said loudly, "I want to make change, but I've already made change. I'm not running on the promise of change. But on 35 years of change.”

The tension was so thick that long-shot candidate and former United Nations Ambassador Bill Richardson noted, “I've been in hostile negotiations that are a lot more civil than this."

In the Republican debate, McCain and Romney sparred over immigration. Since immigration hawk Tom Tancredo has dropped out of the presidential race, he has been supporting Romney on the hot-button issue. Earlier that day Tancredo and Romney held a press conference to criticize McCain’s record on immigration policy.

The Romney campaign has also been running ads in New Hampshire that criticize McCain’s record on immigration policy.

During the debate Romney suggested McCain supported “amnesty.”

“It's not amnesty,'' McCain told the multimillionaire Romney. “And for you to describe it as you do in the attack ads, my friend, you can spend your whole fortune on these attack ads, but it will won't be true.''

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani later jumped in. “Ronald Reagan did amnesty. He actually did amnesty,” Giuliani said reminding everyone of former President Reagan’s 1986 amnesty program.

“I think he'd be in one of Mitt's negative commercials,” Giuliani quipped.

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About The Author
Amanda Carpenter is the author of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton,” published in October 2006.
 
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How Does Mccain Get Away With It?
McCain is on the wrong side of almost every issue:

The most shocking aspect of the debate were McCain's liberal admissions:

1. Drug companies are evil. Thus, we should dilute patent laws and bring in generics from Canada - any Republican should be very disturbed by this.

2. Allocate a fixed amount to doctors to treat a particular condidtion. If they are successful, reward them. I think Stalin did this.

3. Enforce preventive health care.

4. During the debate, McCain made reference to the horrors of Global Warming. Unfortunately, his opponents didn't mention that he is the only "republican" to call for interfering with industry by forcing CO2 caps.

5. His original immigration bill was weak on enforcement and strong on a pathway to citizenship.

6. McCain voted against the most sweeping tax cuts since Reagan. At the time he said they favored the rich. Now he says it was because a spending bill wasn't attached to the tax bill. This is ridiculous. He could have voted for the tax bill (a rare opportunity indeed) and fought for a separate spending bill. Instead he's voted for every bill Bush put in front of him, including the absurd prescription drug bill.

7. Finally, he's an admitted adulterer and has made pro-choice comments, including some during a 2.5.00 debate with Bush and Keyes (GOOGLE IT!)

THERE ARE THREE FREE MARKET CANDIDATES: ROMNEY, THOMPSON AND GIULIANI

I Need a Romeny Fan to Help Me
Romney is for global markets when it come to huge trade deficits with China but against Trade with Canada when it come to prescription drugs.
McCain Owned him on that exchange.
Romney is an Elite that Panders to special interest to promote his political career. Still trying to figure out how this guy is different than Bill Clinton.
Bill Clinton often used the line item veto too.

McCain: Hahahahahahahaha!
"It's not amnesty!"

Ye-e-e-a-a-a-ah, right!

A rose by any other name, doofus.

McCain:

McCain-Feingold (anti-free speech)

McCain-Lieberman (anti-gun)

McCain-Kennedy (pro-illegal alien)

Endorsed by Lieberman

Gang of 14

Keating Scandal

How could one guy be so wrong on so many issues, and team up with so many liberal Democrats, and still think Republicans will elect him?

Amazing hubris.

They behaved like children..
With the exception of Ron Paul, the Republican candidates showed very little class towards each other.

The whole debate was laughs, attacks, and snarky remarks. I was especially disappointed with McCain. He is nothing more than a political opportunist. We don't need Cheney running for office when McCain is around.

Romney on the other hand at least has an excuse because he was put on the defensive.

After this debate it's a toss up between Romney and Paul.

mike
How Does Mccain Get Away With It?

5. His original immigration bill was weak on enforcement and strong on a pathway to citizenship.

He said tonight he still supports his plan. He is the one candidate i would never vote for. If he is the nominee then the republicans can write off a large % of their base and obama wins.

Debate
Huck and Rudy positioning for McShame vp. The evil axis of 3 gang up on Mitt but Mitt shows class.

Hubris...
...definitely. The gentleman is a classic non-normie, filled with rage and driven by hate. Can't really blame him, but I'd really rather not see him in the WH, especially given his age. At least he's not quite the flaming left-polar non-normie Hillary with Hair is. Talk about major control freaks! At least she isn't quite as unbeatable as she'd like to believe she is.

For those unfamiliar with the term non-normie, check out http://www.non-normie.com to learn all about it--and how to combat the flaming non-normies on both the left and the right (can anyone say sand-nazis? H/T the Big Mick).

Debate
My analysis of debate deduced Romney having won the debate on points, but certainly it was no lnockout. Thompson and Paul accorded themselves reasonably well, excepting Thompson's barbs directed towards Romney. As for these incessant attacks, the remaining candidates looked sophmoric and their responses to questions were amgiguous at best. Romney and Paul made the greatest attempts to clarify positions with Thompson providing acute, but overly general, responses. Again, Romney wins on points earned by his arguments and his ability to withstand excessively childish behavior exhibited by his opponents, which was entirely directed towards him in an unnecessarily personal nature.

Reply to Ron
Mitt Romney won?? Where we watchin' the same debate? Looked like he was gonna cry to me. McCain, Thompson, and Mr. 9/11 wore him out like a pair of workboots. They had to mop up his blood off the floor. Mitt is in trouble, deep trouble.

Ticket will be
Obama/Edwards
Rudy/Thompson
It has already been decided. This stuff is just for entertainment.
notice that none of the conservative were able to explain why the believe what they believe. How can they convert someone to their position even they don't understand core principles themselves.
Romney's best guess so far is that cutting taxes increases government revenue. That allows government to grow. But big government is ANTI AMERICAN!!!!
Most likely Rudy and Paul are the only two up there that ever read the constitution never mind understand it and its historical context.

amnesty
BrianR and a lot of others on TH do not seem to know what the word
amnesty means:

http://www.merriamwebster.com/dictionary/amnesty

If you allow illegal immigrants to become citizens and charge them
$.01 to do it by definition it is not amnesty it might be "as good as
amnesty", but by definition it is not amnesty.

It is hard to debate on what is or is not amnesty if people do not
understand how the word is defined.

the missus clinton 35 year claim
by her standards just being alive makes you an agent for change. But lets see the paper trail that backs up this claim and let see the roadmarks where these great changes occurred. But that has always been the clintyon strategy. Make claims that no one in the media will challenge. The missus clinton has pumped up her phoney resume and has come to believe the fantasy being put forth by buba that she is the most intelligent and gifted person of this generation. Without bubba she has nothing and is nothing. She takes credit for his accomplishments but distances herself from his mistakes. But her claims to be a fighter are backed up by her fight to destroy those women who came forward concerning bubba's misbehavior and how the missus clinton fought for the right of her husband to be a sexual predator. If that is her notion of fighting america would be better served with others running the country and the clinton's kept on the sidelines with their phoney ambitions, their phoney pretensions of accomplishments and their total lack of understanding what it means to run the govt.

Mitt is on the ropes, McCain
But at the end of the day he should come in 2nd and be in the lead in
delegates. I think he can also do well enough in SC to still be ahead
that I think will actually mean something on Super Tuesday.

McCain has the best chance of winning the general election.
But more will depend on the situation in Iraq than on him, imho.
Huckabee still too early to tell . . .

Romney is finished
Put a cork in it. All the money he has cannot put a shine on this turd. You almost want to feel sorry for him, until you realize how slimy he is and how constantly shapeshifting he is.

What A Difference
Maybe I'm biased but the Republicans were able to be specific and had a lot more depth than the Democrats. Not one or the other of them ALL of them. The Dems spout cliches about what they see as problems but they dont ever get specific with any details.They are vapid and ignore the well-known consequences of government expansion and nationalization. I could support any of the Republican candidates (except the egregious Dr. Paul) very happily. The Dems just want to drift in the direction of Western Europe, into the morass of Total Government. The republicans want to move in the opposite direction (well, maybe not McLame as much but he'll be gone by Wednesday so it doesnt matter).

Shrillary...
Maggie Thatcher she is NOT!!!

Romney is the man to beat
Don't believe me?

Then why does he receive the most unfounded personal attacks?

I think Mitt ended up being the center of the debate, and did not let the personal attacks from people like John McCain faze him.

He has his fingers on the pulse of the American people and is promising to give us what we all have been saying we want.

If he keeps his word, who can get upset about that?

McCain and Huckabee
can have each other. They cant say they are running positive campaigns anymore. Buch a whiners.

This race is between Romney, Thompson, and Giuliani.

romney the next bubba
does have his hand on the pulse of America just like Bubba did.

He has always reminded me of Big Bill as a politician - say anything to
get elected - focus group it - you know he heard what Iowa said about
change and now he is the candidate of change, the awww schucks
personality.

He definitely doesn't remind me of Bubba as a person.

Ron
Why do you exclude WY?
That must be because your guy won there.

ron
beware of libs commenting on your observations concerning how you viewed the repubs results. What is far more interesting at this point is the 70% of the dims who rejected the missus clinton in iowa and what will happen when the n/h voters speak on tues. The repubs have some distance to go but if the missus clinton again falls to obahma and possibly edweirds it will be evident that her message is no longer resonating with the dims. Your projections are one thing but actual numbers, first from iowa and soon n/h, have real meaning

Romney wins
Romney has just won Wyo. and got 2/3s of the delegates so far. That ads to his delegate count. He may be ahead of Huckabee who got nothing in Wyo.

For those who think Romney is toast that is nonsense. Romney has one win and one second so far and should run one or two in the next 3 or 4 primaries.

Rudy will be 0 for 5. Huckabee will probably only have IA and that will be very old news. Thompson is running on fumes, no offense but his money raising is lackluster.

McCain put everything into NH and he is a very poor fund raiser. He also can't win unless there a tons of Independents who can vote. He also can't win if Rudy is running. McCain will slip after NH due to lack of money and especially in FL when Rudy cranks up.

They will try to beat up on Romney but Romney will keep on gathering delegates and running first or second.

In the end it will be Romney vs somebody. Most likely Rudy in some states and Huckabee in others.

maybe we want a Bill Clinton
who will keep his pants on?

I'm sure Mitt will fosus group it.

Senator C's truth.
Sen. C trained to be a Communist Upper Class Revolutionary under the tutelage of Saul Alinsky
at Wellesley College. When Comrade H says that for 35 years she has been working for change, she means that she has been in the Communist movement that long. For instance, when she was a Yale law student, she sought out a Communist law firm in Oakland, Ca., that defended Bobby Seale, the notorious Black Panther radical criminal revolutionary. This law firm had never heard of her and was quite surprised that a girl from Yale Law School would out of nowhere contact them. Normally, Yale people up until then would intern with one of the best blue stocking law firms in the country on Wall Street or in Washington. The woman therefore is telling her truth to her opponents, but is not candid enough to come right out and tell the t.v. cameras what she is IDEOLOGICALLY and what she has done to get the bona fides to back up her claim of being an authentic revolutionary.

BARRY GOLDWATER JR TO CAMPAIGN FOR PAUL

January 5, 2008 7:17 am EST

CONCORD, NEW HAMPSHIRE – Congressman Ron Paul will be joined in the last days of the New Hampshire campaign by former Congressman and conservative stalwart Barry Goldwater, Jr.

“We are truly honored to have this legendary conservative family here to support Dr. Paul and bring his message to New Hampshire voters,” said Jared Chicoine, NH State Coordinator. “A Goldwater endorsement sends an unmistakable message about what Ron Paul really means to the Republican Party.”

Son of the late conservative senator from Arizona, Mr. Goldwater himself served six terms in the U.S. House of Representatives. Carrying on his father’s legacy of fighting for small government and individual liberty, the former Congressman endorsed Ron Paul for President in November of 2007.


Candidates
Who's going to win this? Please tell me what McCains policy is on immigration if it isn't amnesty. I am sure the Mexican voters he is going for would like to know.

Candidates
McCain's heart just breaks for these illegals. But not so much that he did anything about them working for slaves wages all these years. Now he wants Americans to have to do the same.

McCain.....We're no fools!!!
The American people shut down the Capitol Hill switchboards over giving illegals permanent status and moving them to the head of the line. I have friends who have come here legally, put in the time and effort and money to become naturalized US Citizens. They and I resent the hell out of your "no amnesty" shamnesty bill. Call it what you want, but we the people see it for what it is/was! Fool us once, shame on you, fool us twice, shame on US.!

McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy....there is a pattern here and it stinks.

Shameless pandering to illegals since your state Arizona is leaking at the border like a sieve.

Mitt got clobbered
Mitt is done. He got hammered by everyone, and whined and lied when he got zinged. (He said he never called McCain's bill Amnesty, but his latest commercial uses that word twice!)

Mitt, Huck, and Ron Paul should go home, and leave it to the 3 adults.

Hopefully Huck takes some heat tomorrow. Supposedly he's got 1000 people showing up to his rallies -- which is scary!


To mike
Just curious, but how can you possibly think that enforcing preventive health care is "the wrong side of the issue"? Quite apart from issues of human suffering, preventive health care is about saving money---a lot of money. If $1000 spent will save $50,000 or $100,000 needing to be spent, isn't that good for everyone involved?

I was just talking with a neighbor about her family member who weighs 350 lb and has diabetes. He is now working with a hospital-managed program of rigid diet and exercise. He has already lost 50 lb and his blood sugar has dropped to where he no longer needs insulin and can be managed with pills. As his diabetes comes more under control, he will be much less at risk of kidney failure (read: lifelong dialysis), circulation problems in feet and legs (read: infections, podiatry, amputations, wheelchairs, home care, rehabilitation), and blindness. Whatever that diet and exercise program costs, it is a fraction of costs when diabetes destroys a body. Add to that the cost of strokes and heart attacks, both lurking for diabetics. And to that: lifelong insulin and equipment for giving it. Disease translates to expense.

Interesting Discussion Here:
The statement that stands out to me is comparing Mitt to Bill Clinton. That was obviously a well thought out assertion. Bill Clinton the lowest of morally corrupt individual liars and sexual deviants compared to Mitt who has an unblemished record of morality and character and has held to the highest moral standards on the planet.

Go Mitt!!!

Mountain Rose
Re "unfounded personal attacks" on Romney: 1) Romney called himself "a lifelong member of the NRA" but the Boston Globe investigated this claim and revealed that, in fact, he joined the NRA in August 2006. Previous to that, Romney is on record as favoring gun control, odious to the NRA. 2) Romney said, "I saw my father march with Martin Luther King". When this was disproved, he retreated to explaining that "I saw" doesn't really mean "I saw" (and we all remembered Bill Clinton telling us what "is" means).

It is demonstrable that Romney lies for political expediency. Is that an "attack"? Or is it stating a fact?

A Deranged Agent
"She said loudly, 'I want to make change, but I've already made change. I'm not running on the promise of change. But on 35 years of change.'"

Sure, and in 35 years of marriage and she couldn't even change one iota the behavior of her womanizing, screwing around husband.

The only change she ever effected was the change of life. And she had zip control over that.

Harsh, but true.

Danbar
Was Bill Clinton really the lowest and most corrupt sexual deviant? He liked women, but that's about it. He didn't seduce children or have some kind of odd fetish. With all the investigation, we never heard that he liked to beat women with a whip before he had sex with them. Nobody claimed he had a sheep for a girlfriend. I think your language is overblown.

Last night PBS carried a special about the sex tourism trade between the United States and Cambodia. All kinds of nice rich American businessmen are taking trips to Cambodia because they enjoy deflowering virgin girls as young as eight (8). The secret camera showed a roomful of waiting girls; it looked like a kindergarten. The prostitutes are so young that baby-words are used for the sex acts they perform, boom-boom being intercourse and yum-yum being oral sex. Meanwhile the girls are held in slavery, having been sold to brothels by their families.

There is a difference between uncontrolled sexual appetite and sexual deviance.

immigration
reagan gave amnesty under condition that their would be border security which never happened. that was reagans worst mistake giving amnesty, because people lile mc cain opened the borders to every illegal alien who broke our immigration laws by sneaking over the border. guiliani did well in iowa. he should shut his mouth, because he ignored federal laws in new york not reporting illegals in ny. MIT ROMNEY IS RIGHT AND I SUPPORT HIM 100% EVEN RONALD REAGAN MADE MAJOR MISTAKES, AND ONE WAS GIVING AMNESTY TO ILLEGALS WITHOUT BORDER SECURITY.

ClintonInc -- screwing folks for years
Billy -- maybe you were asleep at the time.

A number of women have charged that Bill Clinton, at the most, raped them, and at the minimum, sexually harrassed, and used his position of power to coerce them into sex.

And that Hillary Clinton was an enabler of his despicable behavior; whether by omission, or by overtly commissioning the further harrassment and persecution of these women in an attempt to marginalize and discredit them.

So please, less of the rose colored glasses on ClintonInc.

If it's McCain / Huckabee
Or any combinationg of the two. It's better to vote for Obama.

Congressional Conservatives (there are a few left) can at least contest and disrupt liberal policies promoted by the opposition party. If the Republicans elect either of these two liberals; there will be almost impossible to hold the line on amnesty, tax increases, free speech restriction, and liberal judges through Congressional action.


MRS. CHANGE. UNHINGED.
Let it never be said anyone knows "change" better than Hillary.

Did I get that right last night? What did Hillary say? It sounded something like this:

"I AM CHANGE."

"I OWN CHANGE."

"NO ONE CAN EVER SAY JOHN EDWARDS OR OBAMA KNOW CHANGE BETTER THAN ME. CHANGE IS MINE!"

"I AM LIVING CHANGE!"

"CHANGE AND I ARE ONE!"

Yep! There you go.

Mrs. Change. We hear you.

A bit unhinged, but we hear you.

And the next time Edwards or Obama mention "change", don't you worry. We'll keep that straight jacket ready to go.

Just for you.






Romney
What an embarrassment. He ruined the exchange of ideas. Talked, talked, talked and said nothing of substance and never answered the question posed to him by Fred Thompson. If this clown or Huckabee get the nomination I won't vote. Chris Wallace did a job equal to the babe in Iowa. Put someone like Russert in charge of the debates because Wallace couldn't handle it. Overall, flat out terrible. Get Romney off stage a.s.a.p.

Romney Won? PLEASE!
The man couldnt deal with turnabout. He spends his entire campaign as "My record is a turd, but its insulting to mention it, but lets talk about why every other candidate sucks." He got his. All the chickens came home to roost, and Romney cant even go into 1 diatribe without contradicting himself. He proved that he cant cope.

I am kind of displeased that Huckabee went as negative as he did, but at some point someone had to call Romney on his bullcrap.

Death before Romney!

McCain's Long Goodbye
Any neutral observer would have to admit that Romney came across as the most articulate and deft debater in last night's ABC confrontation. McCain took potshots at him but looked silly and mean doing it. This maverick belongs back in Arizona in the West where the term originated. He has betrayed the Republican core principles so many times it is outrageous that he even calls himself a Republican. He is an old man still trying to chase that misty star of the presidency but his star is fading fast in the brilliance of the glowing new stars of Romney, Giuliani, Huckabee, and Obama.

Romney
Does NOT have a good record of governor if you care about ANYTHING besides cutting taxes, which he didnt do. He just moved them around to "fees."

So you pay taxes so the government can provide services, and then they charge for the services.

Pro-Gun control
Pro-Abortion
Pro-Gay Marriage
Pro-Gov't Waste (big dig yo)
Widdled all over reagan's rule

What is there besides a lie of a man?

HUCKABEE/ROLLINS SLEEZE MACHINE
Rollins got huckabee to win iowa with his sleezy tactics of mobilizing the evangelicals. He also got the left wing Christine Whitman elected in New Jersey in 1993 by suppressing the BLACK VOTE. HE ASKED THE RELIGIOUS LEFT TO STAY HOME ON ELECTION DAY AND THEY DID. Huckabee did not win that eletion using honorable tactics while Mitt came in second using honesty. ILLEGAL MC CAIN did not even come close to Romney and guliani did not even register. I can not support a rollins person who exploits religion for political gain. Rollins/Huckabee are religion opportunist and I hope they fail in SOUTH CAROLINA.

I didn't bother to watch it
My candidate of choice is Duncan Hunter. He wasn't 'invited' by the powers that be so I didn't bother to watch...

IMHO if they want to put on a debate, then all candidates should be 'invited' and every one of them should be asked to answer every question. All these debates have done so far is to hand out questions rigged for one or another of the most popular candidates. Hunter has a solid conservative record in every area, yet he only gets questions about a fence... and now they have taken it upon themselves to even deny him an invitation to participate, but then I've learned to expect that from ABC and MSM juuurnnalists....


WOW Romney had a bad debate!

Paul
Definitely had a good night. I believe him to be ill informed with unsound ideas, but he definitely did well.

A Couple of Details About the 35
35 years of experience -- dates it back to 1972. Shillery graduated from an elite law school in 1973 and went to work for the Rose law firm. Married to Slick in 1975. Ran Arkansas starting 1979 through 1992 while Slick was playing the field. While at the Rose shyster firm, got involved with the sludge in Arkansas and Whitewater. While at the D.C. White House, lost the Rose billing records, then found them - they were there all the time. When she left the D.C. White House, stole many of the furnishings. I agree she has 35 years of something, that rimes with deception.

TeeHall
I guess that makes Hillary "Mrs. spare change."

TeeHall
I guess that makes Hillary "Mrs. spare change."

hillary's 35 years

If hillary can claim 35 years experience , there is probably someone on the White House staff that can claim 40 years expereince.


nonsense
All of you self-proclaimed "conservatives" of whatever ilk on these boards who are promoting your GOP candidates and declaring you'll not vote for other GOP candidates better regain your senses! Whomever the GOP ends up with as their candidate better be supported 100% by EVERY "conservative" because the alternative of a Liberal Democrat in the Whitehouse with, most likely, a Democrat controlled Congress is simply too great a danger for the survival of this country.

Dirtbags
McCain and Huck and Rudy - the evil axis of three - did their best to cheap shot Mitt but it backfired. Most people saw it for what it was and saw that Mitt could brush it aside and get back to the issues.

McCain actually said he still supports his plan - McCain-Kennedy. He still carries the same old baggage even after his plan was soundly defeated. He still doesn't get it.

I like Fred but he just does not deserve to win for lack of trying. I'm also concerned over his association with McCain.

I would never vote for McCain or Huck. At least a strong republican congress could defeat and stall obama.


turd, slimeball, chickens come home to
roost...all got in the way of ideas.

I thought Romney was articulate and revealed the successful businessman he has been by the cogent and articulate way he presented ideas. No question he showed he is a problem solver who pulls together facts to make decisions. Of course, that is how he earned his millions and millions. Clearly an executive which is what we need for a president.

I hate to say this
but of the democrat candidates, Sen Clinton revealed more of a depth of political knowledge and how work gets done in Washington. Obama was out of his element with a very shallow presentation and almost as bad was Edwards.

The trouble with Edwards and Romney is they started running for president as soon as they entered the senate therefore do have a shallow grasp of facts and process.

By the way, just what is the change everyone wants???? Just any old change?????

charlie
as there are many dogs in the current fight, many are , of course, pulling for their dog to win. But when nov comes around and the choice is any repub vs edweirds, oblahma, the missus clinton or some combo of the three, repubs will rally behind their candidate. No repub is perfect for everyone but every dim is an absolute disaster. The current problem is that the dims can be satisfied with any of their three front runners as all are interchangeable. The repubs are still focusing on their positions. After the primaries clarity will ensue. Repubs will put dollar figures to all the screwball tax and spend plans of the dims and as has been the case in the past people will vote their pocketbook. Earners are tired of being told they must continue to carry the losers the dims enable. This common good nonsense spread by the commie sounding missus clinton just won't wash with the general public

Romney and pal Warren Tompkins
All you need to know about Mitt Romney's character is that he hired Warren Tompkins. I lived in South Carolina in 2000 and trust me the man is evil. If it's Mitt - I'll write John McCain's name on the ballot.

Huckabee.......remember what you said
about a man who would lie to get a job?!!!!

Last night you told a whopper!
Huckabee Said He Supported The Surge Before Romney. “I supported the president in the war before you did. I supported the surge when you didn’t.” (ABC/WMUR, [Unverified Transcript], Republican Presidential Candidate Debate, Manchester, NH, 1/5/08)

One Year Ago, Gov. Huckabee Did Not Offer His Support For The Surge:

Gov. Huckabee, January 2007: “Well, I’m Not Sure That I Support The Troop Surge.” MSNBC’s NORAH O’DONNELL: “We have a Rudy Giuliani, who supports the president’s plan on Iraq. We have Governor Mitt Romney, who also supports a troop surge. How are you different from any of those candidates.” HUCKABEE: “Well, I’m not sure that I support the troop surge, if that surge has to come from our Guard and Reserve troops, which have really been overly stretched.” (MSNBC’s “Live,” 1/24/07)

By your own words you convict yourself, Mr. Huckabee. Go ahead and grant yourself a pardon. In Missouri where a young girl is dead, from your paroles and pardons, it seems you have plenty of "get out of jail free" cards.

some thoughts
I wish that the media pundits would consider that many of those in Iowa who turned out and went for Obama were likely more anti-Hillary than pro-Obama; the overall Democratic turnout in Iowa, in my opinion, is indicative of nothing because I think there exist a large anti-Hillary sentiment in Independent voters who participated in the Iowa Democratic caucuses solely to see Hillary defeated. In the general election, should Hillary prevail as the Democratic candidate, I think you will see Iowa remain a "red" state.
"CHANGE" is the newest target word of the Liberals to deflect the damage of their true mantle of LIBERALISM.
No one, and certainly not McCain, last evening answered Romney when he asked if those illegally here would be required to leave and enter into the LEGAL process to re-enter. I was pleased to see Romney point out in no uncertain language that the GOP welcomes IMMIGRANTS, LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. The MSM and Dems and RINOs have sullied that term by erroneously including the INVADERS under the umbrella of its meaning.
I am saddened to see that the GOP candidates for President would agree to participate in a forum wherein which all GOP candidates were not allowed to participate; GOP leaders should stand up to unfairness, wherever it occurs. Duncan Hunter should have been on that stage!
Huckabee did not have as receptive an audience when it came to his "humor". I think Fredhead did okay, and made the very great point that the INVADERS can be removed via attrition over time if we would but enforce our laws. I was really hoping Guiliani would be challenged on his reference to the Reagan "amnesty" regarding the failure of its enforcement promises over all the years sense!
I was also pleased to hear one of them have the guts to indicate that our compassionate government should be focused here, at home, and not abroad.

JC Watts for POTUS in '12
USMC Lt writes:

"I've seen in some threads where people were also saying that JC Watts would be a good choice for VP"

I've been trying to stir that pot since August, thank you very much. J.C. would make an ideal veep for any of the 3 frontrunners (4 if you include Huckabee, 5 if you include Paul, 6 if you include McCain :-).

I have been promoting his Veepness as a way for Thompson to get some press coverage. If Fred were to woo Watts NOW and announce that he and J.C. were going to be "working together" to form a dynamic conservative coalition going into November, then this would be huge news. Thompson also needs to convince Duncan to drop out of the race and endorse him. In return Fred would promise Duncan the SecDef or SecState position in his administration.

Thompson is the kind of guy that would serve one presidential term in order to right the ship of state and then turn the helm over to J.C. who would have gained a solid 4 years of executive experience as Veep.

Watts then runs as the presumptive nominee in '12, gets the nomination picks Duncan as his Veep and easily wins the general election against Obama/Oprah that November. 8 years later Duncan runs as an elder statesman against Chelsea Clinton (and wins of course).

So in this dream scenario we have for POTUS:

Fred Thompson - 2009-2013
JC Watts - 2013-2021
Duncan Hunter - 2021-2029

One has to wonder what it would do to Al Gore and Michael Moore to have to live under 20 years of conservative presidential oversight.

some of you romney people are funny
roamzero: "After this debate it's a toss up between Romney and Paul." For your vote maybe because those two were the big losers.

Then there is the thought the race is between Rudi, John and Mitt. So all the social conservatives are going to bury their heads in the sand and take another bullet for the national party. In your dreams, laddie.

McCain takes out Romney in New Hampshire and South Carolina is really a toss up because Mike, Fred and John will all run ahead of Mitty and Rudi. WE are going to have no nominee by the convention so people better get used to it.

Deals will be made and the truth is that McCain, Rudi and Mike will all need each other to win. Fred is dead and Mitt is on his way out.

Low Brow
The debate showed McShame, Rudy and Huck as all being low brow. The 3 stooges ganged up on Mitt and he rose above it.

Low Brow
The debate showed McShame, Rudy and Huck as all being low brow. The 3 stooges ganged up on Mitt and he rose above it.

Towing the RINO talking point line
I just simply don't understand statements like this:

"I like Fred but he just does not deserve to win for lack of trying"

Have you looked at Fred's schedule over the last 3 months? It's been brutal. Have you not heard him on practically every conservative talk show MULTIPLE TIMES in the last 6 weeks? Have you not noticed how knowledgeable and rehearsed he is in the debates (he clearly won both the Iowa and NH debates going away). This takes hours and hours of preparation.

Fred is energetic in interviews, is constantly cutting broadcast and Internet ads. He's writing policy white papers for his web site, etc., etc., etc... What more do you want?

As I said on another thread, the other candidates could be sitting by their pools in their mansions doing nothing and meanwhile, Fred could be going door to door promising to cut people's grass if they will come out and vote for him and the RINO lovers (and the MSM) will claim Fred "just doesn't want it bad enough".

Do you people not realize that this is just sophomoric? Just because Fred has a gentlemanly Tennessee drawl and doesn't interrupt the interviewer every 5 seconds (like Huckabee) doesn't mean that he isn't "trying".

Fred is taking a spot on approach to the presidential race. He clearly is a guy who is running to be a public servant not the king of the world. He is measured, thoughtful, articulate, presidential in stature, witty, more conservative than Reagan, and isn't desperate to hold the reigns of power.

Remember the old adage:

"anyone who wants to be president that bad, should automatically be disqualified from running".

Romney, Rudy, Mitt, and especially McCain, all want the office just a little too much.


Thompson/Watts in '08







GOP vs DEM
The Dem debates are never absent "Bush bashing" and other barbs hurled at "Republicans", in general (sometimes a specific GOP candidate). Why isn't there always some mention in the GOP debates about this latest Dem lead do-nothing (but bad) Congress, and all its shenanigans to undermine our forces in harm's way abroad? Or the broken promises regarding ethics reform, "PORK", and such? I think the GOP field could help themselves by going after the Dems more, in addition to pressing the contrasts among each other.

Ron Paul
roamzero writes: Sunday, January, 06, 2008 12:17 AM
They behaved like children. With the exception of Ron Paul, the Republican candidates showed very little class towards each other.... After this debate it's a toss up between Romney and Paul.

I disagree. Ron Paul will have an effect only if he splits from the Republicans and runs independently. He would be a marginal candidate, like Perot, or Nader, and simply drain votes from the Republican ticket. The Libertarian message is a good one, but the current messenger is not the Libertarian's best choice. Talk to Tucker Carlson, an avowed Libertarian. Perhaps he can suggest a better messenger for the cause. Obama is, unfortunately, starting to roll down the mountain like an avalanche. Depressing....


MLNICOSIA
No, he didn't. He got all indignant, that they actually mentioned the tabboo subjects: His record, and his dirty campaigning. Oh wait, we are supposed to ignore what he did, and now what he says, and just vote for him anyway. Got it.

Borders and Security
Huge. Things have changed decidedly since 9/11 in two important ways.

1. Those that hate us saw how they could actually hurt us and danced in the streets. Traction in terror, finally and unfortunately.

2. Embassies, 243 marines in Beirut, the "Cole" bombing didn't awake us to the threat. The towers finally did.

This is not about Isreal or our support just like Darfur is not related to Isreal or their support. This is about domination through terror, nothing less.





Romney is a phony
and he will always be one. Its time to permanently get rid of his guy. its time for america to say money cannot buy my vote. sleek looking saleman cannot buy my vote.
This fraud has changed his mind on every single issue he stood for. unfortunately for him, there are records of his positions. yet he continues to deny he has flip-floped. does he take us for fools?
you can fool some people sometimes, but you cant fool all the people all the time.
- Bob Marley

Lilly
Just curious: how do your fearless leaders plan to "enforce" preventive health care?

Or did you not bother to think that far into it?

Suppose your neighbor doesn't want to lose weight? Who comes after him and "enforces" him to do so? And how?

Thanks Amanda
Two articles in one day with news I can use. Thanks, again Amanda, you need a raise. I caught snippets of the debate. Wow! Don't screw with McCain.

McCain, at his age, can kick all your whinny butts who posted about immigration. GET OVER IT. Do you want cheap help or not. Get them documented as WORKERS and make them pay tax, with no guarantee of becoming citizens while they wait their turn. This send them back for a day BS is stupid.

Go McCain. I'm as conservative as anyone on immigration and making it right. It's boarder and employee control first & deportation of criminals & law breakers ASAP. Yes police should ask there immigration status and turn them into ICE. Than we can look at getting the other people legal or not.

However your racism is apparent. Just admit it. They are not white & speak that devil tongue called Spanish. We know you think every illegal Mexican buss-boy wants to rape our woman.

However what is up with this GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY AND THAN COME BACK. Can't we skip that and make them wait here and get in-line, if their productive? We don't have worker Visas?

I'm NOT for guaranteed acceptance into the county. They don't work, have skills or can't speak basic English, than sure deport. Kids. Lets change the constitution, no more birth rights for two illegal parents. I'm hard core but stop being racist. It took 50 years to make the mess; it'll take 100 years to fix it.

They are here and we LET THEM! We USED THEM. At least 1/2 are good people we SHOULD LET IN, dispute sneaking over the boarder. Y

You never broke a law, cheated, lied? Yea you are perfect little angel. The only perfect angel here is Amanda Carpenter (call me ha-ha).

Give McCain a break, he's the best one of the bunch. As an independent I take him before the rest of the GOP chuckle-heads. McCain in Iowa said Farmer subsidies for corn/ethanol production needs to stop. In Iowa he said this! YEA straight talk baby!

Breeblebrox
I so agree with you.
Even last night after the debate, in which Fred did very well, that ignorant Dick Morris, said fred was asleep during the debate.
I even yelled at the television I was so angry.

And on Fox last night when they were talking about Mitt romneys win in Wyoming, they said he had to share with Duncan Hunter who got 1 delegate. Left out the fact that Fred Thompson came in second with 3 delegates.

This is just awful!!!!

Dem debate
Mrs. Clinton tries to grab onto the "change" phenom.

Mr. Obama tries to give credit for the turnaround in Iraq to... the demo congress!!! (OMG-LOL). What a major smarm tactic.
Offers platitudes. Tries to avoid a major gaffe or any exposure for his skin-deep grasp of things. Did well at that.

Mr. Edwards gives impassioned rhetoric about the haves and have-nots, and noticeably hedges his bets by defending Obama (continuing to vie for the VP slot, has obviously written off Mrs. Clinton).

Mrs. Clinton did point out some of the realities (the devil's details) that should have dismantled some of the high-flown rhetoric of her opponents, but I'm not sure she was heard.

I was surprised about their responses to action in the event of an attack: no "I'd try to understand them". They tried to outdo each other in how tough they'd be. Pretty much identical to GWB's reaction to 9-11. Such Hawks! Wonder how that'll play on their fringe.

"IT'S NOT AMNESTY" ...

.....SAID MCCAIN WITH A CHESHIRE CAT GRIN ..."IT IS WHATEVER I SAY IT IS" ...

.....I lost respect for McCain after he spent his time in the Senate petulantly trying to punish Bush and the GOP for his defeat in 2000 ...the media loves McCain because he votes with the Democrats on key issues ...

.....Although he wrote the "Amnesty" Bill that the public so roundly rejected ...he insisted during the debates that the Bill did not say what everyone knows that it did ...he is nothing more than a two faced liar and a phony ...

.....That is why it is so hard for me to accept the recent poll numbers that have McCain leading ...either the public has a very short memory ...or else the voters in NH have gone over to the dark side .....COLOSSUS

Postscript: Obama wants change ...he wants to change our Republic into a Socialist State ....

Delegates
This nomination will likely come down to which candidate can garner delegates from other nominees as they drop out.
That scenario provides a distinct possibility for Thompson to end up as the nominee, as he would likely get Huckabee and McCain's if he falters.

Romney doesn't seem to have an ally with which to pick up delegates, but he may very well end up being the real power broker at the convention.
Romney will have plenty of delegates, even if he falters in NH, SC and Florida, because he will do well in almost every western state(California has the most delegates), Michigan and maybe even some of the eastern states(Jersey, Maryland, Pa) that have more economic conservatives than social conservatives.

It's all about counting delegates at this point and brokering agreements between drop-outs and stay-ins.

flip flop 101
NOT a flip flop;

1. take a stand
2. you get or realize more info. on subject (NOT polls) go to higher ground.= learning!
3. You PUBLISH your higher ground & ACT on it

IS flip flop;

1. you take a stand
2. You change when you realize more info. not polls)
3. YOU CHANGE BACK to first stand plus you may DENY that you ever changed

Romney
1. Romney was PERSONALLY anti abortion- but "saw" a relative die from mangled abortion, and felt that CHOICE = personal freedom,

(this is **A** CORRECT use of the word "saw" here- meaning he was aware of what happened! fyi- used it in his speech to the MA national guard of their service out of MA- you can check it out on his site when he was ending as governor in the LONG WALK)

2. Romney- confronted with signing a bill that would terminate a LIFE who had NO CHOICE-- went to higher ground. He PUT IN THE PRESS what happened, yet kept his word not to work AGAINST what was **already law** in the state, but he did NOT sign any new pro choice things in. (FEDERAL LAW MANDATED that there had to be provision for abortions)-- but he voted SO pro life that they gave him an AWARD!!)

3. He has NOT changed back!!

Huckabee

1. won't do negative campaign
1 1/2. "asked" smear question of press- (correct LDS stand = we're ALL spiritual brothers/sisters & see Job 1:6
2. saw that COMPARISON adds on his RECORD/ISSUES hurt him- personally attacked Mitt to press,+ ran attack adds - made MORE but then pretended to pull even as he ran for press video cameras! -- STILL denies he does personal attacks!

Anyway- my prayer is that the people will come to a knowledge of the truth before it is too late







loco
You ask (a very good question too) what is this so-called "change" everyone seems to want?

People are never happy with the way things go in DC. I think they're really unhappy with the way the world is, and have some sort of fantasy that that will change. They want to hear it anyway, which is really all they'll do--hear about it.

Obama up big now in N.H.
Obama is up by 12 points in one poll and by 10 in another in N.H.

McCain and The Grand Compromise
I will never be able to forget the image of McCain and Kennedy smiling with glee about "The Grand Compromise" on immigration. Niether will I ever forget how angry McCain was at idiots like me who burned up the phone lines to defeat it. I know, if I want our immigration laws enforced and our culture preserved I'm just a trogladyte in McCain's view.

"It's not amnesty" sounds an awful lot like "it depends on what the definition of "is" is." That's straight talk? Here in Texas we know that if they all stay it's amnesty. That's the nice word for it. If McCain is the nominee I'll vote for the Libertarians and let the Dems have it. Texas will be lost to the third world in either case.

bloggers brain disease
it is truly amazing--- the mistakes and distort-ions that get blogged! loco(?) says that edwards
and romney started running for president as soon as they entered the senate..romney was never a senator and as for your comment..romney not having facts or something like that...UNBELIEVABLE STATEMENT! probably all of the candidates have lots of facts! and for the person who tries to define AMNESTY for us.....
zzzzzzzzz, we know what amnesty is...you dont! you come here illegally...and get away with it
and the gvmnt. says..oh we will charge you a big mac,2 whopper burgers,3 fries..and throw in a milk shake..and your okay! walks like a duck,talks like a duck.looks like a duck..its a duck..and mccain is trying to duck under his crap! when mc cain said to romney..you certainly
change, ha ha ha..i would have told him...yes i do FOR THE BETTER..ASK THE OLYMPICS,ETC! MITT IS COLLECTING DELAGATES..HE KNOWS MATH! AND YES I WOULD HAVE RUN AN ADD AGAINST REAGAN..AMNESTY!
IT'S LIKE THOMPSON SAID..NO PRES., POLICY IS PERFECT..AND THAT GOES FOR REAGAN, TOO! YES ..I WOULD HAVE RUN AN ADD AGAINST THE GIPPER WHO I APPRECIATED! ELVIS

New Parody
My Blog. Hillary says she's for CHANGE. So
She Says she is for Changin'

flip flop 101
Romney flip-flops
1) pro-abortion then became anti abortion
2) pro-gay - rights (left of kennedy) the became anti-gay rights to the extent of wanting a constitutional ammendment. (sheesh)
3) Pro-gun control, then became a life long hunter (wink wink)
4) Pro McCain immigration plan now completely anti-McCain.
5) Was opposed to Reagan-Bush when he ran for governor, now claims to be the most Reagan like candidate.
6) Wants religious tolerance towards mormons, but would not appoint a muslim to his cabinet.
7) Says he did not raise taxes, but added over $400 million in fees.


Robert
I would hardly find comfort in an Obama victory. His naivety, lack of experience, and liberal politics concern me tremendously. My personal feelings of animosity for the Democrats are irrelevant. We have to live with the results of this election for the next 4 to 8 years. Given the favorable odds for a Democratic victory, I view with chagrin the long-term prospects of liberal Supreme Court appointments, a weakened military, international diplomacy based on American concessions to China, North Korea and the Middle East, expanded social engineering schemes, a more powerful Democratic Congress, immigration reform designed to expand the Democratic voting base, and socialist tax reform. My party, the GOP, is in serious danger of being marginalized without clear reform. In the interim, I fear the long-term damage liberal Democrats can inflict upon America.

jetpilot
I tend to agree with your post (10:37). Illegal immigration is a problem, it needs to be dealt with. But I find that many of those who are very vocal about it as their single issue are way too radical, and would throw the baby out with the bath water in more ways that one (specifically by sitting out the election if they don't like the R candidate).

Plan to vote for McCain in the primaries. Last night was not his best night though.
I'm an Independent, but will vote for whoever gets the R nomination (because all of the dems are rabid to tax and spend, and none of them would make an able Commander in Chief).
I think the republican hopefuls are pretty much all good choices.
As far as the debates last night:
I thought Fred Thompson was the best of the lot. His were the some of the only responses that hadn't been rehearsed to spew whether or not they fit (ie they were on point and spontaneous).
Mr. Guiliani did well.
Don't particularly like him, but Mr. Huckabee did well.
Same for Ron Paul.
I think Mr. Romney would make a fine president, but don't think he could beat Mr. Obama out. And that is going to be an issue--who can beat him?

I think if either McCain or Thompson wins the nomination, they need a young and vigorous running mate, like JC Watts. That would be a ticket to the White House.

Robert
There are millions of people from around the globe who have been patiently awaiting LEGAL entry into the USA and who are just as capable of being your maid or yardsman. Personally, I think it would be good for the overall health of this nation for Americn citizens to get off their fat arses and do their own yard work; it's not been that long ago that we did, and I bet it would help the equipment manufacturers and their employees (hopefully here in the USA). If you have kids old enough to handle a mower and a "weed whacker", you are doing them a great disservice by not having them keep up with your family's yard needs (for a little allowance, the way it once was...I don't think it harmed anyone). The money saved on the yardman can go into savings (which should capitalize new employment for US citizens).
Build a fence (double layered, as originally called for and supported by appropriate techno and agent power) is a must, but funds for it were just removed from the monster "omnibus" bill, and with the active aid of GOP Senators. I was glad to here one of the GOP candidates say the fence should be built within an 18 month time frame and cite the great accomplishments of our past, such as the construction of the Empire State Building in less than a year, to show if we are even as good as our forefathers, it can be done!
Fred Thompson had the truth you and others wish to ignore,ie, take away the incentives for others to INVADE our home, the USA, and it will cease, and without the perks of being here illegally, we'll rid ourselves of this problem over time, just as it has been accumulated over time.

Everybody cries about big money
Why is there no similar hue and cry over the vast sums of money behind candidates that are just NOT what the Americans want for their leader???

When a bona fide conservative, with a long record to back up his statements, and proven credentials on border security (which seems to be the only questions he gets to field) is NOT invited to the debates this far in advance of the primaries is is just WRONG!

Duncan Hunter is the Man for the Job. I'm sick of the media, and strong political lobbies, and big MONEY and the Political Parties telling US who we need as POTUS.

I have to believe that there is some good to come out of all this bad stuff, but it is difficult.

Robert
If you'd notice I addressed the anti-Hillary sentiment within the ranks of the Independent voters (which even the usual pundits accpet and proclaim), and this, I believe, accounts for a great deal of the voters caucusing with the Dems in Iowa this go round. I didn't say Obama didn't have legitimate support, but even there, I believe, he is embraced by many Dems as the Hillary alternative. We will have to await primaries in states wherein the voting is restricted Dem to Dem, Rep to Rep, according to registration to get a truer feel for voter breaks.
As far as voters showing up as an anti-Bush contingent, well, Bush will not be on any future ballots, so I hope the Dems keep running against him; I just hope the GOP starts to run against our most recent Dem dominated "do-nothing", "promise breaking" Congress.

McHuckster in NH warning
"Any man who would lie to get the job....." Mike Huckabee

Oh really Mike, How do these words taste to you? They are yours.
Huckabee Said He Supported The Surge Before Romney. “I supported the president in the war before you did. I supported the surge when you didn’t.” (ABC/WMUR, [Unverified Transcript], Republican Presidential Candidate Debate, Manchester, NH, 1/5/08)

One Year Ago, Gov. Huckabee Did Not Offer His Support For The Surge:

Gov. Huckabee, January 2007: “Well, I’m Not Sure That I Support The Troop Surge.” MSNBC’s NORAH O’DONNELL: “We have a Rudy Giuliani, who supports the president’s plan on Iraq. We have Governor Mitt Romney, who also supports a troop surge. How are you different from any of those candidates.” HUCKABEE: “Well, I’m not sure that I support the troop surge, if that surge has to come from our Guard and Reserve troops, which have really been overly stretched.” (MSNBC’s “Live,” 1/24/07)

New Hampshire is not a tent revival and the Granite State will not be kind to a slick con man.

Now the word is out that Hucks people have entered into a holy alliance to team up on Romney. Oh yeah that is in the spirit of a free fight in America. Stand and fight yourself or you get painted together. Both McCain and Huckabee have not been tough on immigration. They deserve each other. We don't.

Tampa Dave & charlie: Warning!

Savage99 is lurking about, and if he finds you feeding the trolls (and we know who they are!) you're gonna be in gia-normous trouble! :-)

We're trying to enforce a strict, "Do Not Feed The Trolls Policy" around here. LOL

Savage99 is one of the lead-enforcers, and as soon as elko.mike gets back inside after shoveling snow, you're gonna get it! :-)








No more CINO
I think McCain is wasting his time and his money-his stance on illegal immigration alone should defeat him. I tend not to trust liberals in general, so Huck, Mitt,- you won't get my vote. Sanctuary City Rudy also doesn't make the cut. Unless I'm voting for Thompson, Hunter, or Ron Paul, I won't even bother.

ONE QUESTION
i want a PRESIDENT who is going to DEFEND this Country regaudless of the B S that is put out there by the DRIVE BY MEDIA

My ????

Would you have used WATERBOARDING if it would have stopped 9/11 attacks YES or NO

Havent heard anyone with any B@LLS ask this ????? yet and WHY NOT?

There is an investigation going on now to determjine if CIA destroyed tapes on waterboarding TERRORIST, I repeat myself TERRORIST,TERRORIST,TERRORIST you know the ones who go around the WORLD KILLING AMERICANS and others.

Im tired of other people saying what other countries think about us , WELL I dont care what other countries think about us. We are at WAR with TERRORISM and we need to PROTECT ourselves reguardless of what others think and if using a technique that is proven to be successful in getting the TERRORIST to talk then so be it.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

How about some tough questions?
Should Islam be designated a terrorist organization?

Should English be our official language?

Are you for Gay Marriage and if so

Should we therefore remove all references to the words Mother, and Father, from birth certificates, and text books?

Should the military be allowed to recruit in our schools?

Should we stop monitoring all suspected terrorist phone calls?

etc

Prostitution laws
must be put on hold during election cycles. Otherwise that crowd would be busted! So far "None of the Above" has my vote! Time will tell. OH NUTS!! We've got to go through another NINE months of this, much like a prolonged morning sickness!!!!!

Dominated?
>I just hope the GOP starts to run against our most recent Dem dominated "do-nothing", "promise breaking" Congress.<

The whisker thin Dem advantages in the House and Senate hardly translate into domination, especially with Bush's newfound veto pen.

The GOP is so fractured presently that a large consensus of posters on this forum refuse to even acknowledge that mant Republicans are even Republicans, hence the constant referrals to RINOs and Republicans as liberals. Then you've got MRS. Paddy saying Duncan Hunter is "the Man for the Job," without so much as a mention that he's knee deep in the Cunningham, Wilkes, Wade, Foggo scandal of defense appropriations, as if that's what real conservatism is all about.

Huckster
On a number of occasions, Huckabee failed to report cash payments he made to himself. For example, according to The Associated Press ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15853756/ ), Huckabee received, but failed to report, “$43,150 from his 1994 lieutenant governor's campaign for use of his personal airplane, $14,000 Janet Huckabee received from his 1992 U.S. Senate campaign, and $23,500 from a tax-exempt organization he incorporated with others in 1994, but whose funding source isn't known…”

According to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, Huckabee “depleted the governor's office emergency fund in the final weeks of his administration in part to pay for the destruction of computer hard drives in his office.”

Prostitution laws
must be put on hold during election cycles so not to bust the current crowd running for office. So far I like the "None of the Above" box but time will tell. Speaking of time, we have another nine months of this to endure, almost like prolonged morning sickness!

What Happens...

If millions of Black children wake up and realize they can be President?

Are Sharpton and Jackson dead? Million-man March dead? Affirmative action dead? NAACP dead? Welfare dead?

Who will need extra representation?

Huckabee corruption
MLNICOSIA, I personally would not vote for Huckabee in the primary even if he were as pure as the wind driven snow. Populism is a non-starter with me.

However, it is good to point out to folks, especially my evangelical brethren, that the Huckster is not the epitome of the morally upright GOP candidate. Heck, Romney is MUCH stronger in this area.

Fred remains the best all-around choice and the most likely to rally the security, social, and fiscal conservative base. With these three in your court, you can win the White House every time.



__________________________
Thompson/Watts in '08

RE: Hunter
utahnotmormon, is Duncan really "knee deep"? He might be ankle deep, I don't really know. Ideologically, Duncan is just about perfect but he doesn't have the stature or support needed to go the distance. He needs to throw in the towel if he doesn't do well in SC and get behind Thompson.



ROMNEY GANG ATTACKED
Wow, McCain and Huckabee have serious nasty streaks, teaming with Giuliani and Thompson to gang attack Mitt. This tells me two things. (1) Mitt is the de facto front runner because he threatens all of their candidacies, and (2) While Mitt sticks to the facts and issues, all these other bozos can do is chidishly call him names. Mitt deserves props for keeping his composure. My vote's for Romney.

HUCKABEE
WHAT NORTHEASTERN STATE WILL HUCK FINN GET????? WITH CLINTON AS VICE PRESIDENT AND OBAMA AS PRESIDENT, HUCK WILL LOSE ARKANSAS AND OHIO. WHAT WOMAN IS GOING TO VOTE FOR HUCK. HE WILL BE LABELED AS A RELGIOUS RIGHT ANTI WOMAN SOUTHERNER. HUCK WILL BE THE BOB DOLE OF 2008. AN OLD MAN, WITH EXTREME VIEWS. A YOUNG GOOD LOOKING OBAMA, WITH AN OLD HAG LIKE HILLARY WILL GET A LANDSLIDE VICTORY. GETTING THE FEMALE, YOUTH AND OLD HAG VOTES. THAT IS WHAT THE LIBERAL MEDIA WILL DO JUST TO GET LIBERAL DEMOCRATS IN POWER. MIT ROMNEY IS THE REPUBLICANS ONLY HOPE. WITH MIT AS PRESIDENT, AND RUDY AS VICE PRESIDENT, THE REPUBLICANS COULD GET THE NEW ENGLAND AND MIDLANTIC STATES ASSURING DEFEAT FOR THE DEMOCRATS. THAT IS WHY THE MEDIA LOVES HUCK FINN AND MC CAIN-THE REPUBLICAN DESTROYERS.

2000 election
robert, Bush ran against Clinton's administration in 2000, legitimately, as his opponent was clinton's VP, please. Cheney will not (at least Dick) be on any ballot again either.


a racial/ethnic definition
Robert, I shall concede that you are correct to a degree because there does exist some angst among White America over their ever shrinking population numbers, but this couples with what they see as the loss of a society they and their forefathers constructed, with their very blood the mortar, and in which they are comfortable. This is not a large portion of the opposition to the INVASION of our home, the USA.
There is legitimate concern over US dollars flowing out of our economy via Western Union daily.
There is concern over the loss of the common uniter in the USA, the English language.
There is concern over the employment issues, because as you have indicated in your latest post, the INVADERS are not limited to yardmen and maids.
There is concern with the depression of wages, and thereby standard of living.
There is concern with the surrender of this nation's sovereignty in favor of membership in some larger union.
There is LEGITIMATE concern with criminal activities.
This most recent wave of INVADERS threatens to do to this nation what historically has been done to so many, displacement of the current inhabitants, or as you say, at the least, destruction of the existing culture, and shouldn't people be defensive of their culture?
Basically though, what has been occuring is simply not right; it just isn't fair that those who can walk into this nation across our borders should be favored over those who must cross ocean's, and the people of this country, the USA, have always believed themselves to be fair and seek fairness, and before Ted Kennedy in the mid-1960s, had a fair immigration system which functioned well (not to mention, especially along the southern border, migrant workers at planting and harvesting times who were compensated and returned home...you know, "temporary workers"...pre-Federal incentives to stay).

WAKE UP REPUBLICANS-ROMNEY ONLY HOPE
THE LIBERAL MEDIA WANTS HUCK FINN AND MCCAIN TO WIN. THEY ARE VERY FEARFULL OF MIT ROMNEY. THEY KNOW THAT HE IS ELECTABLE, AND HUCK AND MCCAIN WILL BRING DISASTER TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. 95% OF THE LIBERAL MEDIA ARE LEFT WING DEMOCRATS. THEY DO NOT LIKE CONSRVATIVE REPUBLICANS, THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT AND SOME DO NOT LIKE CHRITIANS AND JEWS. A POLL TAKEN OF THE LIBERAL MEDIA SHOWED THAT 95% OF THEM ARE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS. DO NOT BELIEVE IN WHAT THEY SAY. MIT ROMNEY IS OUR ONLY HOPE AND THE LIBERAL MEDIA WANTS HIM TO LOSE. WAKE UP CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS OTHERWISE IT WILL BE PRESIDENT OBAMA.

Shrillary in a death spiral-- RIP!
Shrillary says that she "has been making change for 35 years," but did she mean giving out change for a $5 bill? Reality check: as liberal Howard Fineman noted a while back, Shrillary is the ONLY woman ever to turn her spouse's adultery into a U.S. Senate seat. She is a second term Washington insider with no real accomplishment who must harken back to those halcyon days of Slick Willie B4 Presidente Jorge also stunk up the W.H. Wow, what a raison d'etre to be Prez!

Hellary has a nasty, mean side that oozes out of her pores as it did with Tricky Dick... no matter how much they try to put lipstick on the pig, it comes out. Now, just when their instinct tells them to do the Clintonista savaging thing, they have a black guy to try to trash who can holler foul with a special edge... I think the air of "inevitability" has been badly sullied, probably mortally.

Anne
Anne writes: Sunday, January, 06, 2008 11:55 AM
Tampa Dave & charlie: Warning!

Savage99 is lurking about, and if he finds you feeding the trolls (and we know who they are!) you're gonna be in gia-normous trouble! :-) We're trying to enforce a strict, "Do Not Feed The Trolls Policy" around here. LOL Savage99 is one of the lead-enforcers, and as soon as elko.mike gets back inside after shoveling snow, you're gonna get it! :-)

Who are the trolls? Instruct me, tell me more! I have my own thoughts on who the "trolls" are, but I would like to know who exactly the consensus trolls are. Also, I am unaware of Savage99. Who is that? Any connection to the West Coast Savage on the radio?

Thanks,

Dave

Tampa Dave: He caught
Anne feeding trolls and, brutally says he, in a Clintonesque moment denying it. For shame, for shame.

Driveway cleared. Next snow due in about an hour. Be certain the troll patrol will be watching.



Lodestar, Before my very eyes
I saw sHillery change. She went from denigrating Tammy Wynette (was she ever on the wrong side of that one) to baking cookies and handing out recipes. Don't I recall that she changed the white house by taking a few items on her way out the door?

I suppose you are a picky conservative looking for substance.

McCain
I would NEVER ever vote for McCain. He paid a huge price for our nation but since then he has pushed for things that will damage our Republic while standing in the way of good things.

If somehow he gets the nod, the Democrats will win in a landslide to make even Ron Maximums envious.

Except in 2008
>there is the requirement that the nominee of the party in power decide to run "to or away" from the incumbent...<

Not since 1952 has there been an election in which neither an incumbent nor an incumbent VP has been a candidate for President.

So the requirement to run "to or away" doesn't apply in 2008.

Vengeance is always self-indulgence
I'm a Barack guy now. I had been torn, and slightly favoring a knock down drag out battle between Hillary and conservatives, unearthing all the old deceitfulness of the GOP and skewering every deceit ever made over the last 20 years.

Yes, I'd still like vengeance, but realize how self-indulgent that is.

Barack wants peace, hope, unity. I'm ready to shelve my desire for vengeance.


T Dave: "Trolls?"

I would like to say that a troll is anyone who is a bloody lib and/or paulist! And then there is "roberto" (aka wabbie) and no one really know what he is, other than a flaming lunatic!

HOWEVER, the fact is, there actually are a FEW libs who are capable of, and who actually DO carry on a discussion and/or debate without getting angry and launch into name calling and insults.

King Liberal comes to mind as a lib with whom a Conservative can have a good, positive discussion. King Lib and I have gone toe to toe on more than one occasion... Our views are about 180 degrees apart, but I've usually enjoyed our discussions. (We still diagree on just about everything... but that's okay!)

You've been around enough to know who is who... or who is what.




Flying sparks fanned accordingly.
__According to the questions asked of both parties representatives. ABC setup, and broadcast, a debate that was sure to promote the candidates of their choice. While I did gain, a possible, sliver of new info about candidates positions, there was nothing gained by ABC's choices in questions asked. The exact questions asked the republicans should have been asked the democrats. Instead they asked questions that would further the agenda of their desired match-up. One thing I learned for sure, the left is trying to redefine what a special interest group is. The left is trying to shift attention from their actual self-interest factions, born of liberal legislation, to what helps our country grow. Private industry, their employees, and their product, produced without guaranteed dollars from liberal, government, bureaucracies are not special interest. These are businesses, petitioning government, which helps communities, and states, to prosper. Whining factions, begging for increased dollars, only increase their profit, and the profit of segments within our society. The sparks that flew were from those of self-love, self opportunity. The fire that blazed burned in those of the wholes opportunity.

Almost All Got What They Wanted
With this campaign schedule it may be the candidate who does not die of a heart attack wins. Mitt and Huck particularly looked very tired.

McCain effectively warded off a close examination of anything and as the leader did not get any knock out blows

Thompson, Guiliani, and Huckabee were content to pretty much lay low but had to show some teeth now and then.

Ron Paul helped himself with independents and some Democrats.

Mitt was taking it from all sides as payback time for his escalating the attack ad wars. He looked sort of frightened at times, but he did not die on the vine or anything and will get some sympathy votes.

The difference (for Seeker)
Seeker of Truth wrote: "Still trying to figure out how this guy [Romney] is different than Bill Clinton.
Bill Clinton often used the line item veto too."

Romney is a decent citizen, an effective businessman, and incorruptible for the most part.

Clinton is a narcissist, has done pretty much nothing besides hold bureaucrat positions from which he can obtain graft, and lies pathologically.

Even if they had identical positions (they don't), those differences should be enough for you to at least tolerate Romney, but dismiss Clinton with an abrupt wave of the hand.

(Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

You missed the point
>every GOP candidate was asked as to wheather or not they agreed with the POTUS and every Dem candidate tried to link them to it.<

Commenting on an administration and being a part of it are worlds apart.
Even Gore in 2000, while distancing himself from Clinton the man, claimed the mantle of successes of the Clinton administration.

Other than party affiliation, there is no candidate that can be closely identified with the Bush administration..as long as Cheney doesn't run.

In fact, since 2 Dems(Hillary, Edwards)and 1 Repub(McCain)voted with Bush for authorization to use force in Iraq, it could be summaried that more Dem candidates can be identified with support for the Bush administration.


T Dave & Anne
Years ago there was a column (blog) called "Turn Left." Conservatives invaded that blog, and in fact it often seemed like there were more conservatives posting there than liberals.

At any rate I had many a fine debate with irrational conservatives on Turn Left. As far as I know, no one ever called them "Trolls," and no one ever made an effort to boycott their posts.

May I point out that this exemplifies the difference between Liberals and Conservatives. Conservatives are name callers and smearers and attempt to manipulate the media, while Liberals never boycott and call names only in retalliation to being smeared.

So what?
>Romney is a decent citizen, an effective businessman, and incorruptible for the most part.

Clinton is a narcissist<

You can be a decent citizen, effective businessman and incorruptable and still be a narcissist.

MCCAIN ON THE EDGE?

.....Is it just me or is that diabolical grin frozen on McCain's face reminiscent of Jack Nichelson's role in the "Shining"? ...

.....I might be wrong but I think McCain is just one twitch away from a complete meltdown ...

.....I wouldn't be surprised to see McCain snap in a future debate and start having flash backs to the Hanoi Hilton ...he'll start calling Romney "Charlie" and go after him with his ball point pen ...as they carry him away he'll keep screaming, "Don't waterboard me again" ...

..... Ah yes! ...a sad end for the old warrior .....COLOSSUS

Proud Liberal: Really???

"Conservatives are name callers and smearers and attempt to manipulate the media, while Liberals never boycott and call names only in retalliation to being smeared."

Ummmmmm?????

You clearly aren't tracking the posts... It is, by far, the libs and paulists who resort to name calling and insults... long before most any Conservative.

And, of course, you must know that pretty much any Conservative post on Koz and Huff&Puff gets immediately pulled! Gone! Poof! No more!

And not because they're mean or nasty, they get immediately pulled because they're Conservative!!!

Sorry, Proud Lib, not buying it... not for one second.


everyonesfacts writes that BrianR,
... my name, by the way, BrianR(2), doesn't know what is an amnesty.

Wrong, everyonesfacts.

It's you and 2nd Lt Keating-Five Abrogate the First Amendment & Gang of Fourteen McCain -- and thirty-five million invading and hostilely-colonizing criminal aliens -- who don't understand.

Understand neither, that is, what is an "immigrant:" -- A foreigner who has entered (in this instance) our country legally and stays here legally.

Nor what is an amnesty: That which (in this instance) forgives persistent felonious behavior; permits the felon to bypass American Law and to project himself to the head of the immigration line; (In which some wait almost 30 years!) allows the criminal alien to have arranged the immigration outcome of his criminal conduct and in general provides a positive result by rewarding the criminal conduct of persistent felons.

Not very bright, terminally Post Traumatic Shock suffering, often irrational and frequently emotionally out of control, Mr McCain, wants me to buy a feral gummint license to freely speak to him and to other scumbag politicians, waxes fat from graft, joins with "Democrats" and with other RINOs in their attempts to subvert the Constitutional duties of our president and supports AMNESTY for millions of invading and hostilely colonizing criminal aliens and neither I nor any Constitutionally aware American will ever forgive him for any of those examples of the consequences of his giving into his many character defects.

Gator
Tell us how you really, really feel..never mind
I think we can figure it out.
Incidentally, I agree with you, I'm so sick and tired of the oooh, the west of the world doesn't wove us, so we gotta pwoove that we can be
nice, towwerlant and willing to let by gones be bygones with the terrorist.
I'm not happy with the cutting out of the lesser
known candidates by media/political elites, it's
supposed to be the voters who cut the candidates.
The GOP better realize there are millions of Americans who will NOT vote amnesty regardless of the spin.
Huckabee, he should know that as a minister/Christian he's supposed to reflect Christ, even if it means personal loss. I'm not
impressed with his obfuscation and deceit at all
and I did see the movie, Elmer Gantry.
I would vote for JC Watts in a heartbeat.

utahnotmormon, and comparisons
__ Did you here Hillary when she beat her chest proclaiming how Bill had balanced the budget. When anybody with half a brain, and responsibility, can easily find out the process was started when he entered office. Has they can easily find out it was a republican congress that completed the effort.

everyonesfacts writes that BrianR,
... my name, by the way, BrianR(2), doesn't know what is an amnesty.

Wrong, everyonesfacts.

It's you and 2nd Lt Keating-Five Abrogate the First Amendment & Gang of Fourteen McCain -- and thirty-five million invading and hostilely-colonizing criminal aliens -- who don't understand.

Understand neither, that is, what is an "immigrant:" -- A foreigner who has entered (in this instance) our country legally and stays here legally.

Nor what is an amnesty: That which (in this instance) forgives persistent felonious behavior; permits the felon to bypass American Law and to project himself to the head of the immigration line; (In which some wait almost 30 years!) allows the criminal alien to have arranged the immigration outcome of his criminal conduct and in general provides a positive result by rewarding the criminal conduct of persistent felons.

Not very bright, terminally Post Traumatic Shock suffering, often irrational and frequently emotionally out of control, Mr McCain, wants me to buy a feral gummint license to freely speak to him and to other scumbag politicians, waxes fat from graft, joins with "Democrats" and with other RINOs in their attempts to subvert the Constitutional duties of our president and supports AMNESTY for millions of invading and hostilely colonizing criminal aliens and neither I nor any Constitutionally aware American will ever forgive him for any of those examples of the consequences of his giving into his many character defects.

Anne
Thanks for the follow-up. King Liberal thinks I am a money-loving shill because I prefer keeping my money for my family's use, versus handing it over to liberals for re-distribution to select Democratic Party constituents. Using last year's tax data, I performed hypothetical tax computations to re-figure my tax liability based on Obama's proposed increases in the self-employment tax and capital gains rate. I would have paid an estimated $20,000 in additional federal taxes. King Liberal thinks its selfish of me to keep that money for my family's use and enjoyment. Whatever. I believe its perfectly fine to use financial considerations, certainly among other reasons, as a significant factor in selecting the next POTUS. Some people favor Obama because he is black, and fo rthat reason alone. Others prefer Hillary solely because she is a woman. Those positions might be considered somewhat racist or sexist. Some people will ignore Mitt Romney because he is Mormon. That should be labeled as bigotry, but liberals will not defend Romney there becasue he is religious and a Republican. Others like Huckabee because of the Fair Tax. Some like Edwards because he bashes corporate interests.

My point is that everyone selects their candidate for individual reasons of importance to them. Some use "wrong" reasons (racism, sexism, religious bigotry) and others cite "correct" reasons (candidate's positions on the environment, international relations, domestic economy, tax reform, Constitutional interpretation). Some use a combination of all the factors identified above.

King Liberal can pick whomever he wants based on skin color, gender, finances, diplomatic skills, environmental positions, or whatever.

NH beware the man behind the curtain
"Any man who would lie to get the job....." Mike Huckabee

Oh really Mike, How do these words taste to you? They are yours.
Huckabee Said He Supported The Surge Before Romney. “I supported the president in the war before you did. I supported the surge when you didn’t.” (ABC/WMUR, [Unverified Transcript], Republican Presidential Candidate Debate, Manchester, NH, 1/5/08)

One Year Ago, Gov. Huckabee Did Not Offer His Support For The Surge:

Gov. Huckabee, January 2007: “Well, I’m Not Sure That I Support The Troop Surge.” MSNBC’s NORAH O’DONNELL: “We have a Rudy Giuliani, who supports the president’s plan on Iraq. We have Governor Mitt Romney, who also supports a troop surge. How are you different from any of those candidates.” HUCKABEE: “Well, I’m not sure that I support the troop surge, if that surge has to come from our Guard and Reserve troops, which have really been overly stretched.” (MSNBC’s “Live,” 1/24/07)

New Hampshire is not a tent revival and the Granite State will not be kind to a slick con man.

Now the word is out that Hucks people have entered into a holy alliance to team up on Romney. Oh yeah that is in the spirit of a free fight in America. Stand and fight yourself or you get painted together. Both McCain and Huckabee have not been tough on immigration. They deserve each other. We don't.

simple math
who was 2nd in iowa, will place either 1st,2nd in n. hampshire, and 1st in utah and probably idaho,
probably 1st in michigan,maybe 2nd ,3rd in other states...and there are 50 states that have primaries mitt has connections in calif.and quite a few lds there, too! he's got millions working the numbers game...so those who say..it's over for mitt..are very entertaining to me...like some movies...which are just movies
FALSE!HE'S HERE FOR THE LONG HAUL! I FORGOT AZ.! ohh thats mcnasty's turf! well a friend of mine ..not mormon..said in mesa az. it was almost like s.lake city,utah...mormons everywhere! and due to huckaberrys "christian mouth" he really gravitated many mormons who are used to voting for non mormons...who are going to unite..big time! wait and see... thanks mikey!
i know mormons all over the usa...who were luke
warm to mitt....but after hucksters mouth...huh uhh..not now!if huckster would drop off...maybe softening of the heart to other candidate..maybe!
mitt is just compiling delagates..and will be power broker if not nominated! by the way did the donkeys debate illegal immigrations?romneys dad was gov. 3 times....mitt knows the ropes!elvis...can you believe it...a bumper sticker-
saint and sinner--romney/rudy..ha ha ha just kidding folks ..or am i?elvis

Felony?
>Nor what is an amnesty: That which (in this instance) forgives persistent felonious behavior;<

Entering the country illegally is not a felony. Being deported an re-entering is a felony.

A vote for any Democrat
is a vote for Islam and the destruction of America.

Back that up
ProudLib writes:

"Conservatives are name callers and smearers and attempt to manipulate the media, while Liberals never boycott and call names only in retalliation to being smeared."

A.) you forgot to mention that this was sarcasm PL. If you didn't intend it that way then I think you are being intentionally obtuse.

B.) you mentioned earlier some alleged 20 years of deceitfulness for which you would like vengance but have elected to support the platitude kid, Obama.

Care to enlighten us as to what these alleged "deceits" were? Keep in mind that if you can't produce any evidence of such, then you have outed YOURSELF as the one who is being deceitful. People who claim, for example, that "Bush lied" and then can never produce any examples of such lies are worthy of scorn and derision in these here discussion threads.

Tampa Dave
Here i am, sir. Since i reside in that hotbed of mean spirited greedy conservatives, namely Brevard county, that makes YOU the West Coast denizen. There is indeed a connection between me and Mr. Savage. We use very similar nicknames. He selected his nom-de-guerre because it sounds tough. I selected mine because it indicates my conservatism to those familiar with firearms. Qualifying as a troll is not easy. Over a period of time and many posts, covering a broad range of topics, you must show a consistantly closed mind, the inability to follow a subject, a preference for snide remarks over statements of substance, and a TOTAL unwillingness to admit anyone else is entitled to an opposing view. Should one ever make some reasonable remark like "you could be right" or "i disagree because..." a poster is immediately disqualified from troll status and has to start all over.

The Big Mick Pledge
My vote goes to the candidate who first takes my pledge:
WIN the War for survival against the Sandnazis on ALL fronts.
DEFEND against the Reconquistas (SEAL the Border, DEPORT ALL Illegals)
RESTORE Constitutionalism by appointing ONLY from a Consensus List of Top Ten Most Strict Constructionist Judges.
REDUCE the size of the FedGov 3% each year of their admin (in real absolute terms, not mere slowed growth)
SECURE my Sacred Franchise with an Iron Clad Fraud Proof voter Registration and ID system.
WIN DEFEND RESTORE REDUCE SECURE
all or nothing, no equivocations, in public and in writing or I vote for HillybamaWards in the hope a Fast Socialist Track will bring on American Revolution Part 3 faster than a Slow one.
By my count, McCaniac, HuckYOU, and Julieannie,flunk number 2. PaulPOt flunks #1 and HuckYOU is weak on it. I don't trust HucYOU,Julie, and McCaniac on #4.

As for Plastic Mitt?....see below

big mick

Dems on al-queda
the Dems answers on al-queda in Pakistan sounded an awful lot like the Bush stragety that they all denounce every chance they get. Clinton is Bill without the charisma and should NEVER try to elaborate more than one or two points, she looked lost by the time her fifth point came to a merciful end, some genius. Even when Clinton got a softball question from the other moderator, she meandered on and on and on, again, she's big on her experience without any specifics.

Wilter Mitty
Even if Mitt took the pledge today, I still wouldn't vote for him UNTIL---he comes clean about the DIFFERENCES between Mormonism and Main Stream Protestantism. It's not OUR job to ferret that out, or say "Is it true that..?" It's MITT's job, and the Mormon Church's job to say "This is what we believe that makes us who we are and NOT Presbyterians or Baptists."
I can respect "Yeah, this strikes most people as 'hinky' but this is what we really believe."
Claiming "I'm just like you," while remaining silent about your DIFFERENCES (for instance I don't believe the Book of Mormon is Revelation) is, by definition, UNSTRUSTWORTHY! "Half-truth presented as whole truth is something again to falsehood by that very fact!" I want to hear MITT deliniate the Top Five Differences between Mormonism and Main Stream Protestantism, beginning with the Mormon Doctrine of Extra Canonical Revelation. If he CAN'T or WON'T do this he is participating in a Secret Society and I cannot Trust ANYTHING he says.
Openess and Clarity on the Differences I can handle, glossing them over is Falsehood.

the big mick

How can Americans forget
I'd like to know why the memories of some Americans is so short they forget McCain's backing of that terrible Amnesty bill. The only thing McCain has going is the fact that he was a POW but that doesn't influence me to vote for him and it amazes me that some Americans are going to vote for him. When the Candidates talk about change, Americans should thing about the fact that it's the Congress (Senate & House) who really run things---Shouldn't the American people think about getting rid of 90% of these do-nothing congressmen? Maybe if this happened we really would have change. Get rid of Kennedy, Pelosi, Reid, Graham, and so many others.

Ignoring Ron Paul
Another day, another article about the campaign with no mention of Ron Paul. Never mind the fact that Ron Paul is the only one who made the debate at all interesting.

Fox News has excluded Ron Paul from tonight's forum with no explanation for the decision. Further, they have seen fit to modify an AP news release by removing Ron Paul's name from the list of candidates who visited Wyoming in the past few months.

All of this despite the fact that Ron Paul received 10% of the vote in Iowa, and is likely to make a strong showing in New Hampshire where he has polled as high as 14%.

We must silence a candidate simply because we disagree with him. Is this democracy? Is this freedom? How can we have the audacity to spread "democracy" to the Middle East when we do such a terrible job of it here?

OKButterBAR
Sure ARE differences, and if asked I can clearly and cleanly deliniate how Methodist Doctrine is diverse from Presbyterian and Baptist. The Presbyterians and Baptists could and WOULD do it to--so why should I give MItty a PASS? Why can't he or won't he, like any good Baptist, PResbyterian or Methodist?

As far as it being a "non-issue"--YOU don't get to make THAT decision for ME--if you don't like THAT tough! Mitt's HONESTY, TRUSTWORTHYNESS, and FORTHRIGHTNESS ARE Presidential CHARACTER ISSUES.
He BLEW it when he AGREED to talk about it, then told me NOTHING! Makes the "flip flop" talk CREDIBLE! Makes the "inauthentic" talk credible.

You WANT my vote, I've told you how to get it, if you DON'T want it fine--I've told you what I'll do if both choices are BAD.

But I got to tell you, YOUR reaction has been the standard Mormon One--and it puts me OFF--it sounds arrogant and whinny and angry beechy
at the same time, much like a Dumbolcrap Commiequeer Wrapping Himself in the Mantle of Persecuted Minority.

To paraphrase Han Solo "Cough it up, Fuzzball" or I'll have the last laugh.

the big mick

Khomar: Pa-lease. The paulists sound

like a broken whining record!

“... Paul is the only one who made the debate at all interesting.” In your opinion! Many don’t think he’s interesting at all.


Fox News ABSOLUTELY explained how and why paul was not included in tonight's forum. It is simply a matter of SPACE! And paul was not the only one who was not invited.

Ron Paul received 10% of the vote in Iowa, and Fred Thompson received 13%, which was tied with McCain in 3rd place…(which in effect put paul in 4th place!) but we haven’t heard squat about Thompson and McCain being tied.

Do you hear the Thompson supporters whining about it. NO, YOU DO NOT!!!!

”We must silence a candidate simply because we disagree with him.”

NO ONE has silenced paul or anyone else.

“ Is this democracy? Is this freedom? How can we have the audacity to spread "democracy" to the Middle East when we do such a terrible job of it here?”

Sorry, that statement is so twisted and skewed, it’s almost to the point of an out and out, bold faced, intentional mis-representation.

Article by non-Ron Paul supporter
Here is an excellent article that discusses the exclusion of Ron Paul from the point of view of someone who does not support him. It is unconscionable to exclude Ron Paul from a forum when he has a legitimate campaign with strong and real support.

http://soundpolitics.com/archives/009887.html

Anne: Make that a 5th
place finish.
1 -- Huck
2 -- Mitt
3 -- Fred
4 -- the old guy

5 -- paul

While we are talking of 5ths, anyone seen my scotch?

----------------------------------

Anne writes:
Sunday, January, 06, 2008 4:24 PM
Khomar: Pa-lease.

Ron Paul received 10% of the vote in Iowa, and Fred Thompson received 13%, which was tied with McCain in 3rd place…(which in effect put paul in 4th place!)

elko.mike
Ten percent is a respectable figure for someone who has been polling in the single digits. He was never expected to do that well in Iowa because he is against all subsidies, but he ended up just slightly behind Fred Thompson and John McCain.

Regardless, he has more than earned his spot on tonight's forum. He is currently polling higher than Fred Thompson, and he has considerably more money and grassroots support. Why was Fred Thompson invited and not Ron Paul?


Anne
It wasn't liberals who coined RINO as a term of derision, repudiation and disrespect for people who are not sufficiently politically correct for conservatives; it isn't liberals who call themselves socialists or communists as a term of denigration; it isn't liberals who call Hillary she-wolf or Shillary; liberals don't call Bill Slick Willie; it wasn't liberals who smeared Chelsea (it was Limbaugh); it wan't liberals who have been smearing Jesse Jackson for three decades; it isn't liberals who call themselves traitors for their beliefs about the war; it isn't librals who coined the term feminazis; it isn't liberals who coined "nanny government" as a term of derision; it isn't liberals who refer to other Americans who use the term "bureaucrats" as a term of derision for American citizens who work for the government; it isn't liberals who turned the term "elite" into a term of derision; nor is it liberals who sneer at journalists as "the main stream media;"
it isn't liberals who besmirch the character of anyone who is a scientist who doesn't agree with the conservative politically correct belief; it isn't liberals who insinuate that Barack is a Muslim and use his middle name as a term of derision; it isn't liberals who call Democrats either "Democrat party" or "dimicrats."

Give me a couple of days to observe and refresh my memory and I'll come up with another two pages of conservative smears and name calling.

EM: Oops, sorry. You're right, 5th place

But try to tell that to a paulist! Good luck!!!

Thought the SAME thing... where's my scotch!! :-)




Arizona Republic 10-3-99
"In recent years, he's become a champion of campaign-finance reform. More than a decade ago, he took free trips to the Bahamas with savings and loan tycoon Charles Keating. He continues to take big money from interests before his committees."

"He's amassed a rogues' gallery of troublemaking former pals - Keating, Gary Hart, John Tower, Fife Symington, Duke Tully - who hardly square with his ambitions as a reformer."

"He prides himself on his personal integrity yet admits he wasn't faithful to his first wife, Carol, who was injured in a horrific car accident while McCain was in Vietnam."

"While at the Naval Academy, McCain let some subjects slide, spending his time reading history and literature and, of course, howling at the moon. He graduated fifth from the bottom of his class."

Romney Gets the nod, I walk
Republican party isnt running a nomination this year. They shouldnt be running triage.

It appears that no matter who wins a signifigant portion of the party is walking.


Khomar: Since you asked
Khomar writes:
Sunday, January, 06, 2008 4:44 PM
elko.mike
Why was Fred Thompson invited and not Ron Paul?

------------------------------------------------

I do not know and it is a fair question.

EM: Okay, here's the BIG "troll test!"

Let's see how YOU do! LOL

You're better off going out to shovel more snow!

Remember last night when a paulist actually said, "Maybe I'm talking in circles but those circles have a point."

Well, here's more of the same! LOL







Proud Lib: Save your time... just take a

look at the posts by Hal Donohue and some other libs right here on TH....

The LAST thing I'm getting into is a "he said... she said" spitting match... (typical of libs who love to get off topic!)

What you're looking for is a "yes you do" and "no I don't" spat. No thank you.

Go back to koz or huff and just see how many Conservative posts are taken down strictly on idiology...

I certainly don't have time for you and your little spat.



Proud Liberal
Neither side can claim ignorance on the name calling and smearing. Our country is being systematically divided, and it is sickening to see.

I long for the day of the valued big government, small government debate where neither side was good or evil -- they merely had a different point of view. Both sides have valid arguments, and while I certainly fall into the small government camp, I can understand and appreciate the desire to solve problems with the federal government.

What we have today is no where near healthy. I stopped listening to Rush Limbaugh (I was a long time listener) because he was constantly railing on the "liberals" as if they were evil and diseased. There is this mentality and liberals are stupid. They are not stupid. They are just wrong. ;-) No, but seriously, they have a different point of view.

I have made a personal commitment to not sink to the level of name calling in these forums. It leads to immature and nonconstructive conversations that prove to be a waste of time.

Anne
The only point to walking in circles in snow country is that it keeps your feet warm. Ask any deer hunter who is more interested in keeping comfortable than actually shooting a deer. Maybe that's why i average a buck about every 8 years. :-D

Proud Liberal
Hmm... brain reboot there. Ignorance was supposed to be innocence. Actually both sides can certainly claim a lot of ignorance about a lot of things. :-)

Anne, elko, USMC Lt.
Just checking in, and find that I've missed some fun here, there, and everywhere...

Anne: I got your e-mail. I wish you could see the evil grin on my face....and the unholy thoughts concerning the poster I mentioned....I will have to do MAJOR penance...

USMC Lt.: I have said it before, and I'll say it again- Why are people so concerned about Romney's religion, when they have given all the other politicians who are current members of the LDS a free pass?? I guess there IS a difference between a practicing Mormon, and a deadbeat one, remember?

Savage99
Glad to make your acquaintance! Where is the Gipper when you need him? This is the most turbulent, unpredictable primary season I've ever seen. The GOP is profoundly split. The Democrats, having moved in with the extreme left constituents of MoveOn.org, Daily Kos and the Huffington Post, pose a real threat to control the House, Senate and Presidency. The GOP counters by fielding unelectable candidates like Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee to counter the liberal avalanche. Republicans draw 60,000 to the Iowa caucus versus 250,000 for the Democrats. Thousands flock to stadiums and arenas to fawn over talk show host Oprah Winfrey's endorsement of a political neophyte with insignificant credentials. Jihadists are knocking on America's door and Democrats are fighting to reduce our military strength and withdraw from a fragile Iraq. Democrats institute the "Mother of All Tax Reforms" promising significant tax increases with a pending recession possible. So, do you have any words of wisdom on what conservatives can do to preserve the Republic, Savage99?

bigmick
I'd say Gov Romney ought to forego your vote if your criterion is that he deliver some sort of theological dissertation (dissection?) to you. He's already given a dedicated speech to the issue of religion. You can look at his public record, his family life. What else do you want? (My sense is you wouldn't vote for him anyway, so you're no loss to him).

Black and White Brian, all others w/o a
dictionary:

No amnesty would mean no penalty - all sins forgiven

So any penalty, yes ANY penalty makes it by definition something
different than amnesty. As I said before it might be "as good as
amnesty" or you might call it lenient, but if you call it amnesty it just
means you don't have a handle on what the word means.

You can call purple red because it has red in it, but that doesn't make
it red.

Now, you know if you can find a dictionary that defines amnesty as you
suggest I would like to see it. To give amnesty is to give pardon - that
means no penalty not 1 cent no retribution whatsoever. That is what
Reagan did. Hey, isn't one of the qualifications even John McCain asks
of immigrants is to learn the English language?
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e 22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm

Is it too much of me to ask you and other posters to do the same.

http://www.answers.com/topic/amnesty?cat=biz-fin
http://www.merriamwebster.com/dictionary/amnesty
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/amnesty
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/amnesty

Anne
Maybe i should just "lurk" more like i do here on TH. Then when a big old buck can't stand it anymore and rolls around waving his paws and snorting, or what ever it is bucks do when they are laughing at stupid hunters, i would just smoothly sneak out from behind my tree and smoke that venison.

A House Divided Will Not Stand
In the aftermath of the Iowa Caucas, there are lessons to be learned; and Republican voters must heed them, and soon coalesce around their most formidable candidate. What are these lessons, and who is this candidate? See the post below for the complete answer:

http://sheetanchor.wordpress.com/2008/01/05/a-house-divided -will-not-stand/

In a fantasy univers
Proud Liberal wrote what must be the most frustrating thing I've read in the past 10 years:

"May I point out that this exemplifies the difference between Liberals and Conservatives. Conservatives are name callers and smearers and attempt to manipulate the media, while Liberals never boycott and call names only in retalliation to being smeared."

You live in a fantasy universe, sir, where black is white, up is down, and good is bad.

How many HUNDRED instances would you like me to dig up for you, in which liberals bullied, lied, smeared, hurled insults, THREW FOOD, SHOUTED DOWN THEIR OPPONENTS, bypassed the Constitution, broke the rules, cut tires, voted twice, etc.?

Our culture is in the middle of sustaining a 45-year-long assault by vicious, insulting emotional infants who call themselves "progressives" or "liberals," who believe no rule applies to them, who think it's appropriate to accuse the most innocent men in the room of murder or worse, who believe their politics define "virtue" and there's no reason to be considerate, etc.

And you think liberals never boycott or call names.

You're delusional. You have the world exactly backwards.

Savage99
STOP IT, DO YA HEAR???

My stomach's grumbling....Oh, GOODNESS I need a fix.... ;-)

knight of guffaw
"Hey Annie
What are you thoughts on the NH GOP withdrawing their sponsorship of the forum on Faux Snewz tonight because Ron Paul wasn't included? Are you going to go ballistic now and call the NH GOP a bunch of whiners? I dare you to do it. I dare you."

What does this have to do with anything? I believe it

BEGS THE QUESTION!

Senators for change
How is it that everyone believes what all of these senators are saying about "changing the broken Washington"??

THEY ARE WASHINGTON and have been for many years. They are the problem, not the solution! And any rhetoric they spout about fixing a problem is more lying. If they wanted to fix the problem, or could fix the problem, they would.

I like Mitt Romney because he knows how to fix problems. It is his strength and talent. So if people want change that isn't towards leftie/socialism/bigger government, please don't say that McCain, Hillary, Obama, or Edwards is your man.

Tampa Dave
Words of wisdom from me? Surely you jest. I just lurk around here trying to see if someone else is in better shape than i am. Quite a few ties, but no one who has any answers. I had hopes for the primaries and although i could see the possibility of a breakout, Huck was exactly the last man i'd have picked. Not the worst, but bad enough. Iowa was a triumph of wishful thinking rookies. Good people who should well know the destination of the road paved with good intentions. I truly fear things must get worse before they get better. My hope is that we emerge no worse off than after 4 years of Carter, but again, the situation here and abroad is more dicey. The dictum "First do no harm" applies. I think i will do my best to protect my assets, pull my hole in after m, and wait it out. By the timethe primaries get to Florida, there may be nobody left on the half speed ballot to represent me. If you write in Mickey Mouse and i write in Donald Duck, do we cancel each other out?

Just saw the Repub debate on Youtube
Since they finished with the oil question, I would like to say that I wish somebody had responded to the "what do we do about oil company profits" question with the rejoinder that oil company profits represent oil company jobs. Since the board of directors of any company is worried about earnings growth more than anything else, they are more than likely going to plow "windfall profits" back into the company--more investment in technology, new exploration (for oil companies), additional refineries; all requiring the company to hire more workers.

The proposal to use government money to fund research for "energy independence" is also the wrong road. The market is more than capable of providing the incentives to create new forms of energy. In that light, $100 a barrel, $500 a barrel oil, is our friend, because it is the best incentive to reduce our use of oil, and to find substitues for it.

I'm a Huckabee supporter, but there are many, many things I disagree with him over, and this is one of them.

Romney
I personally have no problem with Romney's faith. This is actually somewhat significant in that I spent my Junior High and High School years in Salt Lake City, Utah and was ostracized because I did not share the Mormon beliefs of my peers. I do firmly believe that Mormonism is wrong doctrinally and is not a Christian faith, but I also recognize that many Mormons have strong family values. I see no reason to believe that Romney does not, in fact, share those values and demonstrate them in his own family. The only issue where his faith is suspect is how he could be a good Mormon and believe in abortion? I understand that he has had a change in heart on this issue (or at least claims to have), but it still raises some questions.

Nonetheless, my biggest problem with Romney is his health insurance plan. He wants to force everyone in the nation to purchase health insurance whether they want to or not. He would not articulate what would happen to people if they did not. This is preposterous, and a completely non-conservative view. He is forcing people to give money to large insurance companies (and the massive pharmaceutical companies they support) in a scheme that sounds a lot of like stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

This will do nothing to stem the tide of rising medical costs. In fact, if anything it will propel them even higher as more money flows into the system benefiting the powerful lobbyists and businesses eager to hold onto and increase their power share and revenue streams. Seriously, does anyone actually LIKE health insurance companies?

We shouldn't hold a gun to someone's head telling them to give any company money. That goes against everything America stands for.


everyonesfacts

When someone commits a crime or more likely multiple crimes and there is no PUNISHMENT, that my friend is amnesty plain and simple.

We are not going to tell criminals that going to an English class and getting a passing grade from another Hispanic is punishment. Going home and not being jailed is a very soft punishment.

Like if your son takes a toy away from another child, "jobs", and you make him give it back and go sit in his room for the rest of the play session.

Nothing about that house bill could be called punishment. It was out and out larceny of the product and rights of the American public.

I speak better Spanish, read and write it, than 90% of those illegals. I have lived a major portion of my life in Latin America and understand ALL sides of the question thoroughly, but right is right and wrong is wrong.

Go play in your red or purple sand box, kid.


Repub debate
I didn't see anything in the debate last night to keep me from voting for any of these guys (Huckabee's the candidate I plan to vote for in the primaries).

With the exception of Ron Paul. I disagree with his assessment of foreign policy enough to not vote for him. He gave a really good answer, though, on the oil question, tying in the price of oil to the rise in inflation. That perspective inspired me to look up the inflation-adjusted price of oil. This website has a chart from last year: http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/images/charts/Oil/Infla tion_Adj_Oil_Prices_Chart.htm

We last had "$100 a barrel oil" in December of 1979.

YLG
mmmmMMph urk gurgllle unh sorry. I shouldn't stooge around in the middle of all this serious high class sh!t. Its laugh or cry though, Cookie. My train has left the station and the next one looks to be a lonnnnng way off.

cavalier973
That is something that Ron Paul has been talking about for some time. He believes that the government needs to get out of the subsidies habit, and let the free market decide direction. Companies will do a far better job of using the money efficiently to create profitable solutions that are thereby sustainable. By propping up certain companies or industries, we distort the market and can cause serious problems in the long run.

Consider ethanol. This is a huge disaster in the making as corn ethanol is one of the worst bio-fuel sources available to today. It is costly to grow and yields relatively little per acre compared to sugar cane, hemp, or even prairie grass.

However, because of the big corn growing lobbyists, our government is forcing this solution down our throats using our own tax payer dollars to do it. The result: rising food prices. With corn being used to generate bio-fuel, demand is outracing supply. Corn is used not just for corn products, but also corn feed for chickens, cows, and other farm animals. Egg prices will rise. Milk prices will rise. Actually, the both have already risen quite a bit in the last couple years. Expect even greater increases in the future.

Politicians cannot make scientific or even good business decisions. Most of them are lifelong salesmen or lawyers. They know nothing of the technical world. Let those who know how to work with the issues make the decisions, and let government focus on their true purpose: protecting our liberties.

Ipso Fatso
"It has a lot to do with a lot, ScarletGuffaw."

Well said, sir. Well said;)

I reply that that is status quo ante as well as non compos mentos.

Repub debate on health care
The problem with health care IS health insurance, as it's currently constituted. Health insurance was a workaround fix for companies struggling to find workers in the wage-control environment of World War II. The system is set up so that neither the health care provider nor the health care recipient pays for it, but rather a third party company that makes money as long as the customer doesn't actually use it.
But because of our litigious society, health care providers have the incentive to use every expensive medical test when a patient has a sniffle, and because the health insurer pays all costs, the patient has no incentive to refuse any test the doctor wants to run. The result is the runaway costs in health care.

If our car insurance paid for our new tires and oil changes, the price of those things would begin to rise, too.

cavalier973
The way I look at it, our country has four threats right now:

1. Terrorism and other international threats

2. A soaring national debt and l