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Wednesday, July 18, 2007
Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Senate Examines Convicted Border Agents
by Amanda Carpenter
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Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee criticized the heavy sentence two former Border Patrol agents received for non-fatally shooting an illegal alien who smuggled drugs across the border.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D.-Calif.), who chaired the committee in place of Chairman Sen. Patrick Leahy (D.-Vt.) Tuesday, called it “a case of prosecutorial overreaction.”

After the hearing, Feinstein and Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) agreed they would write a letter to President Bush asking him to commute the sentences of Ramos and Compean.

On October 19, 2006, a federal district judge in El Paso, Texas sentenced former agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean to 11 and 12 years behind bars, respectively. A jury found them guilty of improperly firing shots at a Mexican national named Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, who was smuggling 743 pounds of marijuana into the United States.

The conviction has sparked outrage across the country. Several grassroots organizations are calling on congressmen to support the resolution sponsored by Rep. Duncan Hunter (R.-Calif.) and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R.-Calif.)to pardon the agents. Hunter, who is seeking the GOP’s nomination for President, called the sentence “the most severe injustice [he has] ever seen for a Border Patrol Agent or any other uniformed officer.”

Former Chief Patrol Agent of the El Paso Border Patrol Luis Barker, who supervised Ramos and Compean at the time of the shooting, said if the agents had correctly reported the incident, their punishment would have been avoided. Regrettably, Barker said, Ramos and Compean “used deadly force when it should not have been applied; they shot a person in direct violation of firearms policy.”

“The agents destroyed evidence, filed an incomplete report on the incident in an effort to keep the shooting and circumstances surrounding it from leadership,” Barker said.

U.S. District Attorney of West Texas Johnny Sutton also testified at the hearing Tuesday. “Compean and Ramos crossed a line,” Sutton said. “They are not heroes. They shot at an unarmed suspect and then tried to cover it up.

The prosecution brought 12 charges against the agents. Four were dismissed. The strongest of these charges was 18 U.S.C. Section 924(c), which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of ten years for discharging a firearm during commission of a violent or drug trafficking crime.

Sutton said that when the jury convicted the agents of violating the law, they were not aware that it would require the agents to serve a minimum of 10 years in a federal penitentiary.

Feinstein asked Sutton when agents should be able to fire weapons while pursuing a fleeing suspect. Sutton replied, “If a person does not pose a threat to them, they have to use other than deadly force.”

“How do they do that?”

“They chase them off.”

“And, if they try to chase them and chase fails, while they are still yelling ‘Stop?’”

“That does not authorize them to shoot.”

“So, in other words,” Feinstein clarified, “any drug dealer on the border who doesn’t obey a stop command and runs, cannot be shot?”

“Yes ma’am,” Sutton replied. “Unless there are other circumstances, but just the fact they are running and they were a drug dealer is not enough.”

“No wonder so much drugs are coming across the border,” Feinstein said.

Sutton later said that if the laws were relaxed it would mean that “some [innocent] people are going to get gunned down execution-style by a cop.”

Republican senators Cornyn, Tom Coburn (Okla.), Jon Kyl (Ariz.) and Jeff Sessions (Ala.) also participated in the hearing. Feinstein was the only Democrat who attended.

Only eight months after Davila was shot, the smuggler tried again to bring marijuana into the United States--possibly on a humanitarian visa issued to him by Sutton’s prosecution team. In order to bring charges against Ramos and Compean, Sutton said it was necessary to bring Davila into the United States in order to extract the bullet from his buttocks and prove it came from an agent’s gun. The prosecution also awarded Davila with immunity in exchange for testifying against the agents.

“Looking back, it probably wasn’t a very wise [decision]” to issue a known drug dealer a humanitarian visa, Sutton said. He said he did not have enough resources to provide people like Davila with escorts back and forth across the border.

“We just don’t have enough agents to sit on every dealer,” Sutton said.

Sutton said he could not say much more about the humanitarian visa that was issued because his team is still investigating Davila’s October drug run.

While that investigation continues, Davila is currently pursuing a civil suit against the U.S. government for $5 million in damages for the injuries he suffered.

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About The Author
Amanda Carpenter is the author of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton,” published in October 2006.
 
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Free the Border Agents
Free Agent Campeon, Agent Ramos and Deputy Gilmer Hernandez. Jail Johnny Sutton.

ONE of THE WORST cases of
prosecutorial misconduct in the history of the USA. (Yes, folks, nifong is up there too.)
The jury never heard even 1/2 the case.
Sutton should go to prison himself for this (and a couple of other cases he has punted on.)
Never thought I would say anything nice about Feinstein - but here you have it. The lady is doing the right thing. Thank you!

Amanda says....
....."Feinstein was the only Democrat who attended."
--------------------------------------------------
Why was she even there? Were the rest of the dems worried that all the repubs would continue on into a new subject area or is she just the low dem on the totem pole? Something is wrong with this scene when all these caring dems don't show up for something nice that was done (that should have been done 10 months ago).
-------------------------------------------------
Sutton said ....." “some [innocent] people are going to get gunned down execution-style by a cop.”"
Does he know this for sure, or is saying what HE would do without the restrictions??? I don't trust that scumbag AT ALL!!!!
TBC :>(

I'm shocked
I never thought I'd say this, but thank God for Dianne Feinstein!

Doing the right thing...
I agree with Duncan Hunter...this stinks to high heaven. Just recently a border patrol agent was sentenced to 3 years for taking bribes and looking the other way. Here is a person that sold his country and his soul to who knows what kind of scum bringing drugs or whatever else into this country. His punishment should be commensurate with the penalty that was assessed Ramos and Compean. I don't see Johnny Sutton getting all wet over this slimeball as he did two agents doing their job. I could only hope that when the truth comes out Bush , Sutton and the rest of the conspirators are given their just punishment with the same compassion they have shown these guys.

I never thought I'd say this,
but thank you Senator Feinstein. Now where is the Decider at?

"Deport Sutton"...

For some reason, the Ramos & Compean prosecutorial abuse is but one of a number of such cases against US Border Agents and Law Enforcement Officers, recently.. This is the worst.

Having followed this case, I would also mention a few additional items... The main Statute (924) under which Ramos & Compean were tried was not intended to try law enforcement officers. It was designed for drug smuggling criminals like Davila. The Case was based on circumstancial evidence... No proof that Divlia was unarmed, or even that the Agents were the ones who shot him...he kept running, and he escaped. It was said that when Sutton learned of Davila's second drug smuggling incident during the trial; he terminated it to go to the Courthouse to surpress the evidence of the crime from the jury, etc. Judge Cordone then put a gag-order backed by threats of jailtime on the family if they talked. The Druggie was allowed to be escorted, etc, by his old Compadre who happened to be an Agent and a former Anchor Baby...also the one who filed Davila's five million dollar lawsuit against the people of the United States.. Now, we hear Sutton's excuses and his backtracking, a la Mike Nifong...They All deserve jailtime, except for Ramos and Compean!

Missing from Action
Senator Leahy, the King of this Committee, didn't feel that this hearing was of sufficient importance to require his attendance. His Lordship can find time, though, to worry the "nine US Attorney" bone at every opportunity. I guess that he saw no way to black George Bush's eye by seeking justice for law officers.

Davila
Davila better thank God it wasn't me on the border that night. I would have shot him in the head, not the butt. One less criminal illegal alien drug dealer to worry about. Mexican Nationals, heavily armed, belonging to the Mexican drug cartels are growing their crops in our national forrests and parks. The government knows about it and has done nothing to stop it. Park rangers warn campers and hikers to beware and to stay away from the Mexican cartel's "gardens" or they could be killed. Now I ask you, is this right? Hell no it isn't, the government needs to stop these animals or WE THE PEOPLE should do it if our government won't!!!

We still don't know the straight scoop
on this whole border mess. The news articles mentions that a Federal judge in El Paso, Texas was the sentencing judge. Who was the presiding judge at the trial? Are they one and the same? I have not been following this one too closely except to see that yet another travesty of justice has been visited upon the American people.

Why didn't the jurors know and understand the consequences of their decision - that the agents would have to go to prison for ten years? Who was responsible for informing them? The presiding judge? If so, he needs to be demoted to night court in Podunk. Who were the boneheads who passed a law prohibiting law enforcement officers from shooting a fleeing drug smuggler? Let's see, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say such a law was introduced and enacted on the Democrat's watch.

Where was Leaky Leahe? This slimeball beats anything I've ever seen in sleaze when it comes to politicians.

There are too many loose ends in this entire affair and it reeks of drug cartel stench. It would seem the cartels have our elected officials along the border and in DC in their back pockets.

The jury is still out on Fienstien as far as I'm concerned. She being the only Democrat present was no coincidence, and being so close to election time, her statements in support of the agents has a phony ring to it. I think it's called "pandering".

suffered enough
I just want to say that I am impressed that so many Townhallers are willing to give credit where credit is due even when it's someone seen as a leader in the enemy camp (i.e., Senator Dianne Feinstein).

I am, however, a bit concerned at how glibly these two guys' wrongdoing has been brushed aside in the minds of so many "Free the Border Agents!" proponents.

Lying and cover-ups on the part of law enforcement (including border patrol) are a very serious matter, and it's not something that should be taken lightly.

Nevertheless, I think there is a strong argument that these guys receive a punishment in excess of their crime, and perhaps they have suffered enough at this point. One or two years, not ten, is more appropriate perhaps.

Just some thoughts. Go ahead and flame away, if you must.

Sutton Is a Stooge
I believe Alberto Gonzales and perhaps the White House is pulling Sutton's strings on this and the Gilmer Hernandez case.

The Mexican government wanted convictions and Gringo Jorge and the Hispanic version of Janet Reno were only too happy to comply.

As one poster stated, the more you get into this case, the more it stinks. The presiding judge was in way over her head. Her background, before Bush appointed her, was as a family court judge. She's also a part-time fitness instructor.

I voted for Bush twice, but as far as I am concerned, I won't get in the Democrats way if they want to impeach him.

I never thought I would have more respect for Diane Feinstein than George Bush, but I do.

Senate Examination
It must be getting closer to election time if these "senators", who tried to swiftly shove "amnesty" for illegal aliens down our throats, have finally decided that the sentences for the border agents who were trying to stem the tidal waive of illegal drugs (and aliens) might just possibly be too harsh.

Nothing new
SOS here...
military isn't allowed to use it's might during war...
cops aren't allowed to use the laws on books to enforce...
teachers aren't allowed to use force when necessary...
parents are not allowed to use force when required...
yet, the elite elected can get away with murder, mismanagement of funds, sex scandals in the highest office, voting for more government control....
anyone see the pattern here?
and...it's going to continue to get worse.

Border Patrol Agents
Watching Hannity on TV, I had a fit with the West Texas prosecuting attorney. The entire issue is a prosecutorial travesty. The members of the Senate Judiciary Committee should be purged. But of course look at the members. All are left wing liberal socio/communists. Our unillustrious President lost all his testosterone caved in to liberals and will not pardon the agents. The smuggler not only was paid to testify against the agents, he is suing the government for 1.5 million dollars. America must look like a bunch of morons to the rest of the world and of course we are.

Sealed Evidence
Purplestater -

Let's talk about the sealed evidence. Why was it sealed? To conceal evidence (from the jury) that the drug dealer made a second drug run on the "Get out of Jail Free" card Sutton gave him?

Sutton claims the evidence is still sealed because "it's part of an ongoing investigation." Yet, there have been no indictments or arrests that have been made.

You have an over-zealous prosecutor (who probably was acting on the orders of Alberto Gonzales), a judge with limited criminal trial experience and three jurors who claim they were were not given proper instruction, which led to their guilty votes.

If anyone is guilty of a cover up, it's Johnny Sutton.

I am surprised you're surprised that Townhallers would praise Sen. Feinstein. We're not exactly a right-wing version of the Kos Kids.

I have two Democratic senators. I sometimes praise Stabenow. If Carl Levin ever did anything worthy of praise, I'd praise him too.

Stupidity
We have a president who is in charge of our troops and policy in Iraq. Yet, this president is so STUPID that he would allow an issue like this come up for all the public to see, and make him look like a fool and a drug smuggler friend. Is Bush crazy? And we trust this buffoon so ignorant on a small matter like this to lead our country in Iraq. No wonder we are losing. However, I think it is hardheaded arrogance in all issues. Katrina, immigration, Iraq, everything.

Don't Let Bush Off
It the Bush administration, not the liberals that is behind the persecution of the BP agents.

Johnny Sutton, like Alberto Gonzales, was a member of Bush's team when he was governor of Texas. Sutton also was a member of the Bush transition team in 2001 before being appointed U.S. attorney. Sutton, Bush and Gonzales go back more than a dozen years.

I am a conservative Republican, but I enjoy seeing the Dems go after Alberto the Incompetent.

Bush has a real knack for appointing incompetents - Gonzales, Chertoff, Sutton, Harriett Miers, the ICE Princess Julie Myers; the list goes on.

impressed, not surprised
Sealed Evidence
Purplestater -

< < Let's talk about the sealed evidence. Why was it sealed? To conceal evidence (from the jury) that the drug dealer made a second drug run on the "Get out of Jail Free" card Sutton gave him? > >

So the border agents were justified in shooting him and lying to cover it up because Sutton would later give him a "get out of jail free card"?

Sutton's alleged abuse of process does not justify or excuse the acts that the two border agents were convicted of.

< < Sutton claims the evidence is still sealed because "it's part of an ongoing investigation." Yet, there have been no indictments or arrests that have been made. > >

Not all investigations lead to immediate indictments or arrests. Some lead to arrests later, some never. This doesn't sound like much to me, but I'm partly playing devil's advocate.

< < I am surprised you're surprised that Townhallers would praise Sen. Feinstein. We're not exactly a right-wing version of the Kos Kids. > >

I said impressed, not surprised. I'd have been more surprised had NO ONE said anything in praise of Senator Feinstein.

My being impressed comes when people are willing to put aside partisan differences, cut through rhetoric and petty politics and shake hands with the other side when they're willing to see common ground.

Sort of like this Reaganite who makes a strong case for impeaching Cheney and Bush:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/video_popups/pop_vid_impeachment1-1.html

And many folks on the other side do occasionally praise Republicans (including Bush himself), but not on issues that most Townhallers would be happy about. :)



justice?
this is OUR country, wherein drug dealers can run away from the law "at will", come back on "free passes", sue us (we are the government) for being injured in the normal course of their illegal profession, and where those we employ and empower to protect us from these same drug dealers are prosecuted and imprisoned for actions they take in the normal course of their legal profession; the sad thing is nothing will change.................unless "we, the people" get angry enough to throw off yet another abusive, failing group of incompetent "leaders", Dem and Rep alike!
the one thing I can say to those in uniform who are employed "to protect and serve" is that "dead men tell no tells", so if you must shoot, shoot to kill.
I thought we had benn fighting a "war on drugs" for decades, but even in this "war" we have not been able to DEFEND our borders.....HAHAHAHAHA....how many more "wars" of the Federal government must we be involved in before they render to us the DEFENSE they are charged with as their collective Constitutional primary duty?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Change the rules of engagement
The Border Patrol agents have limited and insufficient authority, if they are not allowed to protect our borders with deadly force. In the late 1800s, the Texas Rangers were able to protect our border with a few tough and resolute men. Those Texans were not dime store cowboys like "The Decider of all theings great and small".

Come to the dark side...
That is, how about some Townhallers come and support impeachment.

Listen to this guy's case on PBS:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/video_popups/pop_vid_impeachment1-1.html

It seems to me that with the border agent issue and various constitutional issues, many conservatives feel that Cheney and Bush may have crossed the line and have trampled the Constitution. Bruce Fein makes the argument that just letting all this go will mean that future presidents, Democrat or Republican, will have these more powerful tools at their disposal, and that is bad for the American people.

By sanctioning these two, we make clear that it was wrong for them to obtain those tools to begin with.

So while Dems and Republicans and Independents may not agree on all the reasons why these two should be impeached, they may nonetheless agree that they should be impeached.

Now, most self-respecting conservatives would accept the ascendency of Nancy Pelosi to the White House, so this needs to be carefully orchestrated to make impeachment a palatable option for the American people instead of a potential power grab by Democrats. GOP and Dems in the Congress should work out a deal whereby Speaker Pelosi agrees to certain courses of action if she becomes president, including a pledge not to seek a full term to that post in fall 2008, when the power of the office would be at her disposal.

Or perhaps an agreement could be made to go after Cheney first, and then replace him with a mutually palatable Republican once Cheney is ousted or resigns to avoid being ousted. Then, if Bush were to be impeached and ousted, or resign, the presidency would go to that Republican: a Democratic takeover would be avoided but the office would be restored.

Please, good people of the political right: look at the executive power Cheney has wrought. There's too little time left for us to wait for Bush to lie about having been fellated before we impeach him for high crimes and misdemeanors.


Oh, and before I go, I wrote:
< < I said impressed, not surprised. I'd have been more surprised had NO ONE said anything in praise of Senator Feinstein. > >

I meant to write, "I'd have been surprised," not "more surprised," had NO ONE said anything in praise of Senator Feinstein.

D'oh!
I wrote:
< < Now, most self-respecting conservatives would accept the ascendency of Nancy Pelosi to the White House, > >

would NEVER accept the ascendency of Nancy Pelosi

Just wrote Jorge and my Congressman ....
Again .....
Paula Jo is correct....

Never Ever, did I mention Never? trust a lawyer.
Lowest form of life on the planet.

Paula Jo writes: Wednesday, July, 18, 2007 12:12 AM
Free the Border Agents
Free Agent Campeon, Agent Ramos and Deputy Gilmer Hernandez. Jail Johnny Sutton.

The only good thing ....
that ever was about Jorge is that he isn't Al Gore. Other than that, he's just another dispicable polititian.

For Gunny
The reason the jurors were not informed of the possible sentence before they deliberated is that no juries are allowed to know the penalty except when deliberating in a death penalty case. Jurors only decide facts in the case, and then render a Guilty/Not Guilty verdict. They usually do not sentence, although I hear that in Texas there is a sentencing phase where the jurors sentence, but that occurs after the initial verdict and before they know the penalty. This is to make sure that their vote is not swayed by considerations of how harsh the sentence will be. They are only supposed to decide whether or not the state carried its burden to prove the facts of the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Then the judge accepts or declines the verdict (he can refuse to accept the verdict if he thinks that it is insufficiently grounded in fact), and sentences. The jury is excused before sentencing even takes place. In a lot of jurisdictions, including federal court, the judge first orders a pre-sentencing report, which is given to both attorneys, and then a sentencing hearing is held where both attorneys can produce witnesses and/or make arguments about the potential sentence. In cases where there is a victim, the victim's family may present a victim impact statement. So, the fact that the jury in this case did not know they voted on a charge that meant 10 years in jail is not a cover-up. It is procedure.

COMMUTE, PARDON, FREE; TRANSFER

1. Commute the sentences of Compean and Ramos.

2. Pardon Compean and Ramos.

3. Free Compean and Ramos.

4. Transfer Johnny Sutton to the U.S. Border Guard patrolling our border. Transfer him to the exact place where Compean and Ramos were attempting to protect Johnny's bottom line, so to speak, while Johnny was no doubt squatting in some air-conditioned haven of safety, knowing there were people like Compean and Ramos out there making it possible.

Did I say I thought this affair was unfair?

I think this affair was unfair.

NOW! NOW! NOW! TODAY!!!
RELEASE THEM ON BONDS now!!! NOW!!! TODAY!!!!

Place nifong and sutton in prison in general population -

SHAME!!! SHAME!!! SHAME!!!!

Why is the border still open??? FBI is saying terrorists are getting thru - CLOSE IT NOW!!!

Use army to watch OUR borders, if needed!!!

DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN?
IT IS A WILD WILD WEST AGAIN, ONLY THE OUTLAWS IS OUR GOVMT

Facts
From what I have read on this the trial was a travesty. These agents may have in fact broken the law but it was not clear. The drug dealer's own mother stated that her son always carries a gun when he works. Also, did the agents in fact have a reason to believe the drug smuggler was armed? This was not clear. They claim that they did. Apparently there were also questions about how they reported the shooting. It was reported that their supervisor knew about it. It was not disclosed during discovery that the Mexican government sent a demand letter for an outcome based trial. There is another incident under investigation wherein a Border Agent shot an illegal who tried to bean him with a large rock. This time they claim they have witnesses to prove it. These witnesses happen to be other illegals that are blood relatives of the shootee. There are serious questions regarding what the rules of contact are for the use of firearms.

To Purplestater,
Hope you don't mind a helpful hint. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your posts even though I totally disagree but - Please take the time to read over and edit your posts. Writing for others to read isn't about putting down words in a hurry and throwing them out to the public. If you don't care enough to edit what you write, nobody will take seriously what you have to say. We who do read these posts don't have all day to read and re-read a bunch of gobbldy-gook. Go ahead, flame away, but just thought I'd put my two cents in.


CLIFF AND LAWYERS

There are many, many, many lawyers who are honorable people. And when you need one, for whatever reason, you are grateful to have him (and his firm) on your side.

Not all lawyers are involved in the criminal justice system, although it may at times appear so. They're the ones getting most of the publicity, be it bad or good.

When you need to patent a gadget, publish a book of poetry, or defend yourself against unfair prosecution, there are honorable people to do so.

Imagine how the "pants suit" may have turned out if the defendants had not had competent representation. I know, it's not over yet -- the very questionable lawyer/judge is taking the case to a higher court. Now, he's one I wouldn't want on a bet. As lawyer or judge. Wonder if he's representing himself? Food for thought. It wouldn't surprise me.

Not all lawyers are duplicates of Johnny Sutton. Not all judges are duplicates of the ones sentencing Compean and Ramos.

Not all judges are duplicates of the one who freed a child rapist because the child rapist was too short and, according to the questionable judge, might not survive in prison. My question to the judge would be, "how tall was the child this perverted monster raped?" Another question: "Who cares?" My opinion here: the child rapist and the judge should go to prison together. She could protect him.

Did I say I thought that latter case was unfair?

I think the latter case was unfair, although it is my understanding that the judgment may be reversed, and "Shorty" may have to fight it out with bigger bullies and perverts than he is. One can only hope.

If The Border Madness Continues
THE END IS NEAR!

GUNNY - THANKS

Thank you, Gunny. I tend to skip over those coments with the interminable, relentless misspellings, incorrect punctuation, horrific grammar, etc.

That is not to say that bad spellers and bad grammarians have nothing worthwhile to say; to the contrary, maybe they do. I will never know.

Appeal
In an appeal before a judge, the Border Patrol Agents lawyer should simply say " Diane Feinstein feels this is a miscarraige of justice. The defense rests" !!

emails, faxes, etc.
Eddred, Stop smelling dog poop. It's gone to your brain. These modern means of communications are the reason "the grand bargain" was defeated. Individually these methods fall short. Collectively, we can move mountains. Join NumbersUSA, FAIR or some other grassroots group. I suspect some young office aides check the themes of these political posts and sort them into piles... pro or con, on this or that issue. They can't and won't ignore the numbers and volume. Some patriot said "we must all hang together or we'll all hang separately". Who wants to wager Bush won't act on the border patrol agents prison sentences? Oh, there's another organization to join. It's called Impeach Bush. Get off the lawn and aim a little higher.

Jail Time
The only reason Compean and Ramos should be in jail is because they didn't shoot high enough. It is plain to see why we are loosing the war on drugs and terror. Give these guys some shooting lessions and use a few laywers for targets.

At the Worst...
Compean and Ramos should only have been subject to administrative discipline, which is 5 days suspension. At that, if it was there first time, and because the injury was non-severe, the two BP agents would have had grounds to appeal for just a 3 day suspension. While all the "suits" want to play like their firearm restriction is merely a protocol wherein the immediate supervisor merely has to be verbally informed when a shooting occurs, a standard police administrative practice, in the case of the Border Patrol, there is obviously more to the matter that the suits or Johnny Satan are saying. What NO ONE is willing to expicilitely say is that field agents, although allowed to carry guns, have been effectively FORBIDDEN to use them at ANY time. The effect of Border Patrol's management being so politicized is that the field agents are effectively paralyzed when it comes to dealing with border-crossing criminals - armed or not.

Does it make sense that Ramos and Compean would fail to inform their immediate supervisor about shooting their weapons if all that was involved was a 5-day suspension? Common sense would dictate otherwise. Common sense would tell me that they KNEW that -since they HIT the drug dealer- they were in CAREER-ENDING trouble because of it whether they informed their immediate supervisor or not. My sense also tells me that the recipient of Ramos and Compean's gunfire KNEW, or CAME TO KNOW about the de-facto firearms use prohibition, and dropped the dime on Ramos and Compean himself to the District Attorney General's office.

In other words, this whole case is nothing less than a conspiracy between both the White House and a pack of Mexican Narco-gangsters to send a message to all BP agents to each keep their bullet in their shirt pockets.

-Trentamj

Border Agents
There is no doubt in my mind that Ramos and Compean were railroaded by a corrupt administration. Bush should be impeached for one thing only - trying to sell out this country to Mexico and the rest of the third world. Sutton is a moron that should be "Niphong-ed" and sent to prison for 12 years in a Supermax. The drug dealer should be tried and imprisoned and the border closed.

I never thought I would say this, but I'm proud of Feinstein for investigating this. That's the first worthwhile thing she's done as a Senator for California. Where Dingy Harry? Robt "KKK" Byrd? How about John "Swift Boat" Kerry? or Osama Obama? - probably hiding under their cots in the Senate.!

Good for you Diane - keep up the pressure!

The great decider
The saddest part of this is the Decider didnt act . He said it would be looked at. The guy ranks just above Jimmy Carter to me. By a hair.

Johnny Sutton is a prick.
I've watched his interviews, and he strikes me as a man that has had his testicles removed.

Then again, I could be wrong. He may have been born testesless.

When they make a movie of this incident, Johnny Sutton will be played by Alan Alda.

Gunny is right
I agree WRT editing. I skip Purplestater's posts because of their lack of cohesiveness and incomprehensibility.

Suggestion for all posters: Use bullet points! State your assertion, then back it up with some quality arguments. A long diatribe without substantiation is a waste of people's time.

As to the point regarding whether the two agents were guilty...

- Here's the problem; they are in a Catch .22 situation. It makes logical sense for a law enforcement officer to wound a dangerous drug runner who fails to stop when yelled at. However, if Sutton is telling the truth about officers not being able to shoot a fleeing suspect then either they let him go to commit some heinous crime again or wound him in the hopes that he can be tried for his crimes and the idiotic regs be damned.

- If the agents informed their supervisor (which it appears they did) then it may well be that the supervisor told them they did the right thing and that they would not be reprimanded for doing so.

-Every day in America law enforcement officers have to make split second decisions, some of which might put them afoul of some idiotic rule of engagement. Usually, either internal affairs or DAs will ignore those situations where the officer did what he thought had to be done but was potentially in violation of some RoE.

Normally, a guy like Sutton, if he had any sense of justice about him, would not pursue such a case as this because the officers were just trying to do their job as best as they could in an impossible situation. Trying officers for doing their jobs simply has the effect of scaring other officers into doing nothing while on patrol. Why even shout "stop" since the Mexican criminal knows they don't have to?

Might as well stay in the car and video tape the criminal behavior and send it to Funniest Home Videos for all the good their presence will do.

RoE
For the person who claimed that the officers are not judge and jury. Excuse me? Law enforcement officer make decisions every day that affect the trial process. Sometimes suspects are killed in pursuits, sometimes they are wounded, sometimes they get away. Sometimes evidence is gathered improperly, sometimes the wrong person is killed. ALL of these situations affect the trial process.

Example: A Mexican drug smuggler kills a border agent in front of his partner's eyes and flees. The remaining agent yells "stop" but the perp keeps running (why wouldn't he?).

-If the agent lets him get away then has he not done the job of a jury? He let the guy off the hook while the jury might not have.

-If he shoots to wound then he has stopped the suspect, allowing him to be tried. (this is the most neutral of the agent's options WRT his role of "judge and jury" but is evidently against the law).

-If the perp turns to fire on the agent and the agent shoots back and kills rather than wounds then he has also denied the jury their opportunity to try the suspect. They might have pronounced him innocent.

In fact, every single action that an officer takes can potentially affect the manner in which a judge or jury decides a case. The reality is that the officer is part of the judicial process since his or her decisions are not made in a vacuum.

An irony
Ironic that Feinstein chose now to do the only sensible act of her entire senatorial career--by asking to free Ramos and Compean.

A punishment I would suggest for Sutton and his subordinates:
(1) For Sutton specifically, immediate disbarment plus QUADRUPLE the combined sentences (without eligibility of parole) of Ramos, Compean and Hernandez
(2) For each of his subordinates who went along, one-and-a-half times the combined sentences (no parole).

RIPPING US OFF, what a joke
THE DRUG SMUGGLER had run away - and, according to other version, was shot in the butt in mehiko by his buddy, to get 5 million dollars from us.
He was caught again with drugs - and sutton did let him go free - saying: NO! He was not arrested?
We ask: WHY NOT?

The smugglers/criminals know well that our border patrol agents cannot shoot - so why are they there?

WHO WAS THE IDIOT WRITING THOSE LIMITS?

mEX ARMY OR THUGS IN MEX ARMY UNIFORMS - no difference _ CROSSTHE BORDER, Ashoot at our agents very often
IT IS AN INVASION, BUT WE CANNOT SHOOT BACK.

Why? because of NA Union.
Our govmnt says it here: http://www.spp.gov

What really needs to happen
George, Dick, Michael, Connie, Ray, and all involved in this case need to be charged with willful negligence, murder, and trying to turn America into a facist/communist state. Go back to 911, Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and these so called wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Drop them from an airplane over shark infested international waters. Take all of their assets and build Habitat houses. Put their families in jail for life.

The rub in this case is:
"The strongest of these charges was 18 U.S.C. Section 924(c), which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of ten years for discharging a firearm during commission of a violent or drug trafficking crime."
*****************************************
This tells me that the Border Patrol Agents were charged with a crime that was meant for the drug runner or dealer, not those trying to stop the drug runner or dealer.

Ramos and Compean were not committing a drug trafficking crime, it was Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila who was committing the drug related crime.

Was shooting at Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila a violent crime? Johnny Sutton himself has said on more than one news program that the crime was the cover up. Was the cover up a violent act? If not then this law should not apply.

I agree that this smells of prosecutorial overreaction and over charging in order to assure a conviction which is all to common these days.

In addition, Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila was failing to yield and follow the instructions of law enforcement. We see video on TV every day of law enforcement taking actions to stop such evasion. Police have been known to shoot tires, perform the PIT maneuver, even ram the suspect with patrol cars. Is shooting someone in the butt (to wound but not kill) any different?

If the Border Patrol policy is to not use a gun except in the event that the officers life is in danger, then what less-than-lethal options or tools do the Border Patrol agents have?

Might there also be a situation of either there being a bad policy in place or failure to equip the agents so they can adequately comply with such policy?

With this case and conviction we are headed down a road where officers are afraid to use their weapons. That fear may lead to hesitation by officers in the future and thus put them in danger of being hurt or killed in the line of duty.

I'm all for police oversight to make sure they do not abuse their authority. And if an officer commits a crime he or she should face the same penalties as anyone else who commits the same crime, but at the same time these people are hired to protect and serve the community (or the nation as a whole) and as part of that duty need to either be given the right to use their tools as needed or provided tools to adequately do the job per policy.

As for this case, Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila should never have been given immunity. If as Sutton has said on TV that there was other evidence that would have also lead the jury to the same conclusion, and the crime was in the cover up, then why was Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila's testimony even necessary? Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila should be sitting in jail for the drugs he was trying to smuggle at the time he was shot. If he had been he would not have been able to do so again.

And Johnny Sutton's explanation of how agents should deal with similar situations is a joke. Every effort should be made to catch, investigate and charge or deport anyone attempting to illegally enter this country (with or without drugs). Such logic explains why so many illegals make the crossing, they know the risk comes more from the environment (hot days/cold nights) or the smuggler helping them cross the border than it does from our front line of defence and law enforcement.

Oh, and Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila should not be awarded any civil judgment, he was wounded in the act of committing a crime (drug smuggling and illegal entry into the U.S.) and thus should not be rewarded for his injury. The case should be thrown out.

Worldnet Daily . . .
. . . has been following this story for many months and there is a plethora of coverage at this link. I want to repost a story that is very important, because reading many of your posts, there still seems to be some propaganda-swallowing going on - no fault of the poster - just that the true information doesn't seem to be reaching the public yet. Believe me folks, this story stinks MORE THAN YOU YET KNOW. Please consider the following information from Jerome Corsi, who has followed this story from the beginning.

Here's a link that will take you to all of Jerome Corsi's stories from the beginning (just scroll down to the bottom of the page at this link where is reads "previous stories":

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53976

Ballistics data don't support
charge against border agents
Investigator: U.S. attorney twisted evidence to fit case – 'guilty of malicious prosecution'

________________________________________
Posted: January 28, 2007
10:45 p.m. Eastern
By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

Ballistics reports, used in the trial of Ignacio "Nacho" Ramos, one of two Border Patrol agents convicted of shooting fleeing drug dealer Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila, do not support the prosecution's claim the bullet was fired from Ramos' gun, according to documents provided to WND from Andy Ramirez, chairman of the Friends of the Border Patrol.

Despite the conclusion of a laboratory criminalist that he could not conclusively link the bullet removed from Aldrete-Davila with Ramos' service weapon, a Department of Homeland Security agent swore, in an affidavit of complaint filed against Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean, that Aldrete-Davila was hit by a round fired by Ramos.

"Johnny Sutton and his assistants are guilty of malicious prosecution," Ramirez charged to WND. "The prosecutors lied to the jury and he twisted evidence to make it fit his case. And when he couldn't twist the evidence, the government demanded that the court seal evidence which would have been exculpatory to the defense."

Nearly two years after the conclusion of the trial, the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Texas has yet to release a transcript of the trial.

WND asked Ramirez if he was aware of the seriousness of his charges.

"I am very aware and I am accusing Mr. Sutton of a felony," Ramirez told WND, "but I am basing my conclusion on the evidence I have examined in this case and the refusal by the government to provide evidence to substantiate its claim to the Congress and the American people."

"Back on Sept. 26, 2006, officials from the DHS Office of Inspector General made serious allegations against both agents Ramos and Compean to four members of Congress from the Texas delegation," Ramirez said.

"The Inspector General has subsequently refused to provide their evidence to substantiate their claims to Congress. So I am also accusing the DHS Office of Inspector General of making false statements to Congress in order to prevent a congressional inquiry. I am asking the U.S. Congress to subpoena all documents pertaining to this case including the full transcripts, sealed testimony, and the sealed indictment against Aldrete-Davila in order to get to the truth of this case once and for all."

Sutton told WND that as far as he in concerned, the issue was settled at the trial. Both defendants and their attorneys stipulated the bullet that struck the drug smuggler came from Ramos' gun.

Ramirez argues the border agents did not have the best legal assistance, due to a lack of funds.

WND previously reported Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, has accused DHS of stonewalling on the release of documents. Despite persistent requests to hand over promised internal reports, McCaul told WND Congress had not yet received the materials.

In the Sept. 26, 2006, meeting with the Texas Republican delegation, the Inspector General's office claimed it had substantiating investigative reports that could back up their criminal charges against Ramos and Compean. Among the charges made by IG was that Ramos and Compean had stated Feb.17, 2005, the day of the Aldrete-Davila shooting, they "wanted to shoot a Mexican."

WND also reported Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas, last week filed a Freedom of Information Act request against the DHS Inspector General's office to obtain those investigative reports. Poe took this action after DHS informed the Texas Republican delegation the documents would not be turned over to them because the Democrats were now in control of Congress and McCaul was no longer chairman of the Investigations Subcommittee of the House Committee on Homeland Security.

Ramirez has worked on the Ramos and Compean matter for nearly two years, investigating the facts of case and interviewing Ramos, Compean, their families and others knowledgeable about the proceedings. He shared two documents with WND that, he says, undermine the prosecution's case against Ramos.

In an affidavit filed by DHS March 15, 2005, with the U.S. District Court in the Western District of Texas, special agent Christopher R. Sanchez swore the following:
Ballistics testing confirms a government-issued weapon belonging to U.S. Border Patrol Agent Ignacio "Nacho" Ramos, a 96D Beretta .40 caliber automatic pistol, serial number BER067069M, fired a bullet (a .40 caliber Smith & Wesson jacketed hollow point) which hit the victim in the left buttocks while he was attempting to flee to Mexico.

The second document, a ballistics report completed by the Texas Department of Public Safety, interests Ramirez both because of the agency that did the testing and the results of the test.

"For some unexplained reason, U.S. Attorney Sutton had the ballistics test performed by the Texas Department of Public Safety in El Paso, rather than by the FBI," he said. "This was a federal issue that should have gone to the FBI and only to the FBI. The Texas Department of Public Safety had no business running a ballistics report on a federal case. The FBI handles all shooting incidents, whether it involves assaults or otherwise, concerning federal agents. DPS should have refused the case and demanded that the bullet be picked up by the FBI for analysis.

"If you ask the Texas DHS how many shooting cases they handle involving federal agents, they would have said, 'None'. Then, if you asked the FBI how many shooting cases they handle involving federal agents, they would have said, 'All of them.' Yet that isn't how it went in this case. Nothing was done by the rules."
The results of the ballistics tests were reported in a letter written by Joseph J. J. Correa, a Criminalist IV with the Texas DPS El Paso Laboratory, March 18, 2005, and addressed to Brian D. Carter of DHS in El Paso.
The letter states Correa examined one fired copper-jacketed bullet presented to him by Carter on March 17, 2005. The letter identifies the victim shot by the bullet as "Osvaldo Aldrete."

In the letter, Correa notes that he was asked to determine the manufacture of the firearm that fired the submitted bullet.

Correa could not positively identify Ramos's weapon as the one that fired the submitted bullet. His report concludes:
The copper-jacketed bullet was fired from a barrel having six lands and grooves inclined to the right. The manufacturer of the firearm that fired the copper-jacketed bullet is unknown, but could include commonly encountered models of .40 S&W caliber FN/Browning, Beretta, Heckler & Koch, and Ruger pistols.

Correa's report gives no indication the bullet submitted for analysis was disfigured or in fragments, despite having been supposedly extracted from Aldrete-Davila's body after reportedly doing massive damage to his groin area and hitting bone.

"The problem was that the ballistics report did not match the bullet to Ramos' gun," Ramirez said. "The ballistics report said the bullet could have been fired by any one of four different makes of gun. So, the affidavit of complaint against Ramos and Compean made a statement that was not substantiated by the ballistics report. That is a big problem for the prosecution. Their evidence does not support their accusation."

The arrest warrant issued for agent Ramos, a copy of which Ramirez also supplied WND, attests Ramos was charged with, "Intentionally assaulting a Mexican national, one O.A.D., resulting in serious bodily injury." This conclusion is not supported by the ballistics letter written by Texas DPS specialist Correa.
WND has not investigated documents from the prosecutors which would establish the chain of evidence between the time the bullet was extracted from Aldrete-Davila's groin and the time Carter of DHS presented it to Correa for analysis.

"How do we know that the prosecutors didn't simply fire a round from Ramos' gun into gel?" Ramirez asks. "That could explain the nearly pristine bullet the prosecutors presented for ballistics analysis."

The failure of the prosecution ballistics reports to link the bullet with agent Ramos' weapon directly challenges a claim made by Sutton to WND in an exclusive interview. In that interview, Sutton claimed that agent Ramos hit Aldrete-Davila:

WND: So, Compean shot 14 times and missed everybody, but Ramos shot one time and hit the drug dealer in the buttocks?

Sutton: That's correct.

WND: Is Ramos that much better a shot than Compean?

Sutton: Ramos is a marksman.

WND has further learned the bullet was not extracted from Aldrete-Davila's body until DHS special agent Christopher R. Sanchez brought him back from Mexico, at some unspecified time after the February 17, 2005 incident in which Aldrete-Davila was supposedly wounded by agent Ramos' fire.

A doctor in Mexico had inserted a catheter to reverse the damage done to Aldrete-Davila's urethra, but did not extract the bullet.

The bullet was extracted by a U.S. Army doctor, at government expense. According to the physician, the bullet entered Aldrete-Davila's left buttock from the left side, traversed his groin, damaged the urethra, hitting bone in the process, and lodged in his right thigh. The bullet was extracted from Aldrete-Davila's right groin and he received reconstructive surgery for the damage done to his groin and urethra and a catheter was reinserted.

WND has obtained the post-operative release form for the U.S. operation. That document specifies that Aldrete-Davila was released to the custody of DHS special agent Christopher Sanchez. WND has not been able to obtain evidence regarding where Sanchez took Aldrete-Davila next, or why.
The Army doctor's description of the wound directly contradicts U.S. Attorney Sutton's repeated claim that agents Ramos and Compean shot Aldrete-Davila in the back.

The doctor clearly stated that the wound he observed was consistent with Aldrete-Davila turning to assume a "bladed position" with his left arm extended back toward the officers. This corroborates agent Ramos and Compean's claim they observed Aldrete-Davila turning back toward them while fleeing, extending his arm and holding an object in his hand that they took to be a weapon.

Aldrete-Davila is left-handed, consistent with the bullet entering his left buttock laterally as he fled and turned back toward the officers, possibly pointing a weapon at them.

"The doper after the surgery was transferred back to the personal custody of DHS special agent Sanchez," Ramirez said. "So Christopher Sanchez has both the doper and the bullet. Aldrete-Davila was not transferred to a hotel, escorted by federal marshals. Aldrete-Davila wasn't escorted from Mexico by the Mexican government. Everything involving Aldrete-Davila was left to the personal custody of Christopher Sanchez. Anything could have happened and who would know?"

WND is left to ask the following questions, which the Texas DPS ballistics analysis does not resolve:

• How did Aldrete-Davila continue running far enough to cross the Rio Grande back into Mexico after he had been hit by a round that passed through his left buttock from the side and damaged his urethra before lodging in his right thigh?

• How do we know that the bullet extracted from Aldrete-Davila could not have been fired into him during an unrelated incident in Mexico subsequent to Feb. 17, 2005, by a weapon among those of the type described in Correa's report?
Conceivably, agents Ramos and Compean did not hit fleeing drug smuggler Aldrete-Davila on Feb. 17, 2005, despite firing multiple rounds at him.
"Johnny Sutton and his office have intentionally distorted and misrepresented the facts in this case," Ramirez charged. "There's something clearly wrong in the federal prosecutor's office in El Paso. The Ramos and Compean case is a witch hunt. Every law enforcement agent on the border from Border Patrol agents to ICE agents to deputy sheriffs and sheriffs have gotten the message."

What's the message, WND asked?

"The message is simple," Ramirez replied. "Enforce our drug laws aggressively on the border and you risk going to jail, not the drug dealers. We have a drug war going on along the Texas border and the U.S. government has backed off to the benefit of the drug lords.
Ramirez ended the interview with WND by noting: "After the Ramos and Compean case, no U.S. law enforcement officer on the border will ever again draw a weapon against a Mexican illegal transporting drugs without worrying that effort to enforce our laws may place him in jail, not the doper."

On Aug. 17, 2006, Ramirez gave sworn testimony on the Ramos and Compean case to the U.S. House Committee on the Judiciary, a copy of which is posted on his website.

Ramos and Campeon are INNOCENT
Neither man should have had to serve ONE DAY in jail. They were doing their JOBS. If anyone failed in this case, it was the bureaucrats who then and now have put handcuffs on our border patrol agents. This favoritism towards criminal illegals has got to stop! The ONLY 'punishment' these men should have gotten was a few days of suspension for picking up the spent bullets and not filing a proper report. PERIOD! And as for Davila, he's an outright liar. The bullet that was removed from his butt could not conclusively be linked to either Ramos' or Campeon's gun. Furthermore, there is evidence that that bullet had not only entered his buttocks but had lodged in his urethra. Yet, it took him about a month to have that bullet removed? You cannot live with a bullet severely blocking your ability to urinate for long, let alone a month. I suspect he was shot AFTER the incident with Ramos and Campeon. In other words, two innocent men are sitting in a jail cell while the criminal walks free.

btw poot,
I posted my comment before I read your post and you confirm everything I just said. Good work!

Trent
Well said!

FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL, WHEN IN DOUBT
SSScum sUTTON HAS A HUGE BUDGET - and has to use it!
It explains his and many others "actions"...

SHAME!!!
RELEASE THEM NOW!!!!

NOW!!!

There is a reason that
Bush will not pardon the agents, and that is the same reason that Bush was so insistent on granting amnesty to the illegals.

The powers that be in Mexico have over the years managed to "get the goods" on a large number of american politicians. As hard as it is of our senators and congressmen to keep their fun in their pants,

I can imagine that it would not take much effort to get any kind of incriminating evidence on a republican ... pictures of the congresscritter with a naked woman, or man, or ... possibly photos showing drug use or proof of bribery.

It would be a little harder to get the goods on a democrat politico, just because the media would not press the issue, and their peers would back them up, so blackmailing a democrat would entail something involving pedophilia, or murder.

Now, why the push to punish the border patrolmen. It would not be hard to imagine a scenario where the powers to be in Mexico, (can you say drug cartels) wanted to send a message to american law enforcement, Border Patrol, DEA, etc., "DONT MESS WITH OUR DRUG RUNNERS".

They lean on George and maybe a few other congresscritters they have in their pocket, and the agents are doing hard time. That will certainly make Joe Policeman think twice the next time they try to give a drug smuggler a hard time.

MY BOSS TOLD ME
"If you kill a perp, there is only one version - yours".
Too bad they didn't. :(

Thighmaster,
I also voted for Bush twice, and I have and continue to support his war against the radical islamic terrorists, but how else can you explain his bizarre actions on border security, amnesty, and the treatment of the border patrol agents?

Obviously I don't have any proof of this, but do you not think his actions with regard to Mexico have been just a little Bizare?

I mean, GW has been taking names and kicking butts in the war in the middle east since day one, but when it comes to closing down a major entry point for terrorists, he folds up.

You and I tend to agree on a lot of things, so please think about this. What possible reason could these politicians have had to risk their re-election chances to push scamnesty?

Gunny's advice...
Gunny wrote:
< < To Purplestater,
Hope you don't mind a helpful hint. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your posts even though I totally disagree but - Please take the time to read over and edit your posts. Writing for others to read isn't about putting down words in a hurry and throwing them out to the public. If you don't care enough to edit what you write, nobody will take seriously what you have to say. > >

Fair enough. Are you referring to my lack of editing that forced me to explain that I meant conservatives would NEVER support a President Pelosi? Or do you mean, like Beeblebrox does, that the quality of my posts in general is just crap? :)

Oh, well, I guess that's as good an excuse as any to ignore opposing viewpoints. ;)

Seriously, though, I have been operating on four hours of sleep for the past few days, which I am not accustomed to. I am used to blogging, where I can go back and re-edit an offending sentence, so I come across as a little careless when posting comments in other forums.

I do wish Townhall would allow italics, bold, etc., to help get points across.

Biggest Legal Travesty since O.J.
Sutton said ....."some [innocent] people are going to get gunned down execution-style by a cop."

Interesting how Sutton already demonizes cops by pure assumption that they're going to commit crimes, yet those who have ALREADY committed crimes (such as Osvaldo smuggling drugs not once but at least TWICE) get humanitarian visas to continue their crimes. Where did this guy get his law degree??? What happened to cops or anyone being innocent until proven guilty?

There need to be serious repercussions for putting Compean and Ramos into prison.

Thighmaster,
Do you remember the scene from the Godfather where the senator who refused to give the Corleone family a gambling license was later found in a brothel with a dead lady of the evening, and Tom Hagan "takes care of things so nobody will ever know" ? In a later scene when Michael Corleone is testifying before a senate committee on racketeering, the Senator makes a speech praising the Italinan American Community.

This whole shamnesty thing is vaguely similar to that.

Even though there is plenty of evidence that a large percentage of our illegal mexican visitors are engaged in criminal activities, all we hear from the folks pushing for amnesty is that these are hard working folks.


Bush will do it
George Bush does nothing until the left tells him to and then he does exactly what the left tells him to do so it is now a lock that he will have to pardon the agents.

Purplestar and Rocky JOne...
I have to strongly beg to differ with both of you. Demote the agents, suspend them without pay, heck...FIRE them, but 12 years in prison with the very people they put in there??? They should have NEVER gone to prison. These guys are the front line soliers on the immigration war. One of the officers was nominated for agent of the year before!

Most frightening is the message sent to illegal immigrants, drug cartels, our own agents and citizens with this HORRIBLE decision: Instead of siding with our own and protecting their backs, we stab them in the back instead. Border Patrol agents beware! We're watching you CLOSER than we're watching illegal immigrants and if you slip up, we'll NAIL you.

Cartels and illegals, come on over. We'll make sure you're treated well and if you're NOT, well then you can file a multi million dollar lawsuit and our wealthy taxpayers will oblige you. This is disgusting! We should be outraged.

I voted for Bush and feel betrayed that he would let these agents hang out to dry...for what? Latino votes??? Compean and Ramos are Latino!!!

Border agents railroaded
Sutton is a goofball and should be immediately fired for his part in this fiasco. I think an apt punishment for him would also be to force him to act as a border patrol agent, unarmed maybe, for say three to four years. What a travesty!

Sounds like Nifong to me.
"U.S. District Attorney of West Texas Johnny Sutton also testified at the hearing Tuesday. “Compean and Ramos crossed a line,” Sutton said. “They are not heroes. They shot at an unarmed suspect and then tried to cover it up."

This US DA crawled into bed with a drug smuggler to spawn a career enhancing issue. Furthermore, the misinterpretation of the law regarding border agents use of a firearm during a felony is a legal perversity.

This is your law enforcement at work. The jury should have nullified this prosecution. Besides being finder of fact, the jury is the last defense of an individual against such prosecutorial misconduct.

Bucko says:
" The jury should have nullified this prosecution. Besides being finder of fact, the jury is the last defense of an individual against such prosecutorial misconduct."

In a perfect world, this would have indeed been the case.

Unfortunately for the border patrol agents, the fix was in on this from the start. Somebody wanted to make a "lesson" of these guys.

I would not be surprised if the jury had not been 'pre approved' prior to the trial.

Unenlightened
Big Black Dog writes: Wednesday, July, 18, 2007 9:48 AM
republicans: The Party of Crime
I'm surprised by Feinstein - it must be political, but, here we have more convicted criminals - these guys picked up their shells and decided NOT to report the shooting - and, of course, the same Free Libby Crime Lovers now want to give a pass to two cops who destroy evidence and lie about their crimes.
But Clinton lied about a blow job and he's worse than Charlie Manson...

Indeed, Clinton is worse than Manson, but for different reasons.

It is people who cannot tell the difference between an incident such as the Border, which will disappear from memory in short time from a precedent setting illegal act by a President of the United States in MY HOUSE, while on duty (definitely an act that has brought down the esteem of the Presidency in my eyes), that frighten me.

No wonder this country is in trouble.

NO GUTS, NO GLORY
WHEN WILL every thinking person shout:

1.close the borders!
2. free Ramos and Compean!
3. forget the gov. Union idea! details by Boosch on: http://www.spp.gov

then here are the candidates to do it right:
1. Hunter
2. Tancredo
3. Paul

Should have been handled adminsitrativel
Check out this website. It's supposedly Ramos' father-in-law. I was a federal Personnel Officer for 30 years, and this should have been handled as an administrative action. Quite honestly, it may have been a firing offense depending on the facts, regs violated, etc, but I can't believe that it was prosecuted as a federal crime. I, too, voted for Bush and am disgusted that he would commute Libby's sentence (don't get me wrong, I think Libby should have been pardoned), but remains silent re Ramos and Compean.

Typos
Sorry for the typos


Crap, I thought this law applied to...
the bad guys!!??
"The strongest of these charges was 18 U.S.C. Section 924(c), which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of ten years for discharging a firearm during commission of a violent or drug trafficking crime."
Are you kiddin' me??!! This law applys to the LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS trying to STOP the drug dealer?!! UNBELIEVEABLE!

The Prosecution of Border Patrol Agents
Never in my life have I read such idiotic laws regarding the enforcement of our border! A drug dealer flees and gets a shot in the buttocks (obviously not intended to kill him, just stop him so that he could be brought to justice) and the border patrol agents are prosecuted and convicted for doing their jobs. I for one do not want drug dealers to be given humanitarian visas (an act which should have Sutton disbarred)so that they can testify against the people my country has hired to keep illegals from entering and further burdening our social systems, perpetrating crimes and wasting my tax dollars. Now the dealer/smuggler been caught again and some idiot is actually helping him in a lawsuit against the United States for $5 million dollars. The inmates are most certainly running the asylum. The dealer was well aware that dealing drugs is illegal, that bringing them across the border illegally is a serious crime, that when he is told to Stop by border patrol officers he should stop - but if they can't shoot at him to stop him you are virtually taking the teeth out of the tiger. No wonder the drug dealer has the nerve to keep trying and trying until he succeeds. He knows we and our laws are too stupid to protect ourselves. Absolutely unacceptable and disgusting.

Some Things Don't Add Up
The claim that Ramos and Compean wanted to "shoot a Mexican" on that day is a lie.

Imagine the situation: Ramos and Compean, who are both of Mexican descent, want to shoot one of their own just for fun. And then they just happen to find a drug runner upon which to fulfill their wish, despite the fact that the ratio of drug runners to regular folks just looking to get into the US is about 500 to 1. You'd think that it would have been far easier to find some regular Joe upon which to vent their frustrations.

Anytime a prosecutor seals evidence, there must be a compelling reason. What is that reason? Why has Sutton sealed the evidence, thus making it impossible to now prosecute this known drug smuggler?

A question is brought up concerning how the bullet that was tested could be confirmed to have been removed from the smuggler's backside, especially when no DNA tests were made on the blood and flesh taken from the bullet. In fact, the lab technicians destroyed any DNA evidence during the testing.

Which brings up another question: If the agents had in fact shot the man, and the bullet had done the amount of damage claimed, would there not be blood at the scene? Why was this not used by the prosecution to bolster their claims against the two? Why was it not collected as part of the investigation? No mention of it is ever made by Sutton.

The National Border Patrol Council filed a rebuttal of Sutton's statements against Ramos and Compean. You can find the PDF here: http://www.cfif.org/archive_server/Rebuttal-to-US-Attorneys-Offices-Myth-vs-Reality-Press-Release.pdf

As Hugh says, read the whole thing.

Betty says:
"The inmates are most certainly running the asylum."

and .......... ... Betty is right ! ! !

ex-tex
Ex-tex says:
"the bad guys!!??
"The strongest of these charges was 18 U.S.C. Section 924(c), which carried a mandatory minimum sentence of ten years for discharging a firearm during commission of a violent or drug trafficking crime."
Are you kiddin' me??!! This law applys to the LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS trying to STOP the drug dealer?!! UNBELIEVEABLE!"

Goddd!!!
That is the perversion of our laws; - YES!
dETAILS:
commission of drug crime - mex scum!
Penalized for MEX crime - American guard!

COMMUNIST "LOGIC", AIN'T IT???

Need comprehensive plan
I recommend a comprehensive (Bush's favorite word) plan. Pardon Ramos and Compean. Reserve the cells for Sutton and Nifong.

Bush has no choice anymore, now that Senators from his own party, the Democrats, are demanding action. Maybe he should, as a courtesy, consult with Ted Kennedy first. Of course, that will delay the pardon because Teddy will have to sell the idea to the Mexican government in order to get their approval.

"Fleeing suspect"? Please.
We hear a lot about this on the radio in Southern California, and even people who favor the commutation of Ramos and Campean's sentences don't seem to have the facts straight.

They didn't shoot the smuggler because he was running away. They shot at the smuggler because he turned back toward them and raised his arm, as if to fire a weapon. They weren't trying to stop a fleeing suspect; they were defending themselves from what they perceived as a threat to their lives.

They picked up their cases and didn't report the shots fired BECAUSE THAT'S THE NORMAL PROCEDURE. The book says Border Patrol agents must report every shot fired, but in actual practice the supervisors discourage their agents from doing this because it requires a tremendous amount of paperwork. When nobody is hit--and the agents didn't know they'd hit the smuggler--the normal practice is to just pick up the empties and forget it happened.

This Johnny Sutton character is a weasel from top to toe, and should be fired. Giving a repeat-offender drug smuggler immunity in an effort to convict two Border Patrol agents who acted in good faith...this is a person who stayed in the john when they were handing out the common sense.

Commuting the sentences of these two agents would be nice, but given the facts of the case it's not really enough. They should be pardoned and re-instated in the Border Patrol.

Conservatives and Libs unite!
In their hate for George W Bush. Not only should this prosecutor do jail time as an aliens "cell mate", but so should Bush.

I hope these men get their records cleared and if they are not too jaded, get back to work doing what they do best, protecting our border!!!

Honestly Bush should be impeached for many things, but nothing more than his failure to protect our border and make bold face LIES to the American people about why he can't, won't, and why we should just grant Amnesty. For his failure to protect our borders our greatest time of need, Bush will go down as one of the worst Presidents in the History of the USA and the man should be impeached and kicked off his darn elite high horse.

We must take back our party and get a real conservative again. I REFUSE to allow another loser like Bush to hijack MY party pretending to be a conservative and tarnishing our good name.

Impeach Bush!!!

Black Dog, please get the facts straight
This article is not about Clinton or impeachment or anything like that, so I don't know why you even brought it up...

...but if you're going to drag up the shameful past, you should at least get the facts straight.

BD wrote: "never in my lifetime - or to my knowledge, has the opposition party stooped to such outrageous lows to bring down a sitting president! They discover that the president is cheating on his wife and then set it up so he's put in the position of admitting the affair - and hurting his family - or lying about the affair which hurts no one and implies nothing..."

Democrats habitually misrepresent this event, but I don't think I've read a MORE inaccurate rendering.

The investigation had nothing to do with affairs. Nobody gave a rat's patoot whether the President was having affairs; we already knew he did, it came up during the 1992 election. The investigation (called for by 7 DEMOCRATS, led by Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynahan of NY) was about the Whitewater scam; and unlike the fantasy fishing expeditions created by Democrats against the Bush administration, the Starr investigation resulted in 12 felony convictions for a scam that defrauded the SBA, destroyed a small S&L, and robbed depositors of $60 million of their life savings.

In a clear attempt to distract the Special Prosecutor, Clinton's corrupt Attorney General Janet Reno piled on at least six additional items to be investigated (including the Foster suicide, the 900 misplaced FBI files, and a number of other items that should properly have had separate investigations), resulting in a bureaucratic nightmare of an investigation, which was Reno's intended result.

It was during one of those ancillary investigations that a witness turned up that would corroborate Paula Jones' story (again, not about affairs, but about clear abuses of power, the sexual harassment of subordinate employees). It was the one item that Clinton had not already demolished the witness trail to his misdeeds, so that was the one for which he was prosecuted. The charge was PERJURY (again, not affairs), he pled GUILTY, and he was duly sentenced for his FELONY.

We can discuss the matter further another day if you like. This message board is about border agents. But for the record, Clinton was guilty as sin, guilty of a felony, and the way you guys lie to defend him is as morally disgusting as his crime.

Something else is going on here ...
My husband just told me he heard over the radio that the human smugglers on our southern border are now bringing in Al Queda operatives/soldiers because they can pay more than the "ordinary" illegal aliens. Maybe that's the "gut feeling" Chertoff had in his stomach the other day? Maybe he's known about this all along? I think we'd all be scared out of our wits (so to speak) if we really knew the truth about that border and who and what is coming across. A thing to remember is that every great civilization that has ever existed on Planet Earth died by suicide.

What about poor Osvaldo?
http://kilroyreport.townhall.com/g/156f85ab-d9e7-4776-9adc-af7cb427faca

NEWS BRIEFS –

JUAREZ, MEXICO - Osvaldo Aldrete Davila, the drug runner shot by Border Patrol agents while attempting to evade arrest for smuggling 700 pounds of marijuana into the U.S., has finally spoken out about the imprisonment of the agents convicted in the shooting, as well as his $5 million lawsuit against the United States Government. In an exclusive interview with The Kilroy Report, Davila offered that while the 10-12 year prison sentences the Border Patrol agents received was excessive, the $5 million he seeks is justified to cover his damages. “They shattered my urethra and now I can’t get no R-E-S-P-E-C-T”, said Davila. In addition to his CD collection, also damaged in the shooting was his pair of fuzzy dice and his little doggie in the back window with his head that goes up and down.

Sutton should be tried
for aiding and abetting a drug smuggling operation, failing to file the proper paperwork, failing to report the incident. Perhaps he would enjoy the lack of support and prison sentence that should result from these crimes.

I mean really, he gave a KNOWN DRUG DEALER a get out of jail free card instead prosecuting him for drug smuggling and illegally entering the US.

Sutton is a loser
With few exceptions, prosecutors are like public defender attorneys. They are the ones who couldn't cut it in private practice, where the real money is made. He is using this case to promote himself. Has anyone noticed how many times he has been on TV the last few months? When I saw him last night, I said to myself, this guy must be a Democrat or should have been. He's got that sissified mannerism, i.e. John Edwards.

Bush figths to hamstring enforcement.
Sounds to me like yet another attempt by Jorge Booosh to hamstring this country's boder enforcement efforts.
What better way to prevent border agents from stopping illegals from Mexico than by putting them in prison for doing their jobs?

Ann Coulter put it much better than I ever could:

"Bush won't build a wall and he keeps prosecuting law enforcement officers who stop illegal border crossers. But trust him: He'll get right on that border enforcement business as soon as we grant amnesty to 12 million illegal aliens.

Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean are normally the sort of Mexican-Americans Bush would tear up at while promoting amnesty for illegal aliens. Both served in the military and are taxpaying, law-abiding citizens. They've been risking their lives as Border Patrol agents for years.

Ramos was nominated for Border Patrol Agent of the Year in 2005. His nomination received a major setback when the Bush administration decided to put him in prison instead. Ramos and Compean are now serving more than 10 years apiece in solitary confinement for chasing a drug-running illegal alien back to Mexico.

Bush's pal, U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, gave immunity to a Mexican drug dealer hauling a million dollars worth of drugs across the border so that the drug dealer could testify against two Border Patrol agents who shot him in the buttocks.

The border patrol agents were presumed guilty of an unlawful shooting because they neglected to fill out the proper paperwork. For busting a cap in the butt of a drug courier crossing the border illegally — who was so mortally wounded that he proceeded to scamper back to Mexico — they were supposed to spend five hours filling out paperwork. This is what the Bush administration means when it talks about a "cover-up." As U.S. prosecutor Debra Kanof said, "You have to report any discharge of a firearm."

Intriguingly, Kanof also says: "The Border Patrol pursuit policy prohibits the pursuit of someone." (Hence, the oft-heard warning of the border agent in hot pursuit, "Stop or I'll ... do absolutely nothing!") Can we apply this rule to meter maids and tax collectors? At least now border agents will be able to watch the illegal aliens they can't pursue on infrared cameras!

But wait — that's not all! The Border Patrol agents also exceeded the speed limit. "In order to exceed the speed limit," Kanof said, "you have to get supervisor approval, and they did not." It's just so hard to fill out a written request to exceed the speed limit when you're off-roading at 65 mph. There's a whispering campaign suggesting that Ramos and Compean failed to use their turn signal.

As I understand it, you're also supposed to not cross the border illegally from Mexico with a van full of drugs. But the Bush administration has no interest in enforcing those laws. Ninety-eight percent of illegal aliens captured crossing the border illegally are not prosecuted. Those drugs are doing the job American drugs just won't do!

The Bush administration pulls out the big guns only for serious violations like a Border Patrol officer not filling out paperwork. "

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=189


Feinstein is kooky...

Every time the liberal judicial policies fail... they want to shoot people?

Come on Diana... I'm now a great citizen... because the Detroit police did not shoot me when I ran.

Half the men in the ghettos would not be here with a policy like that.

That was Stalin's Policy! You're scary!

B Man
My husband said he was listening to Rush Limbaugh when a caller from the border called to tell the listening audience what was really going on down there. Thanks for asking.

Opinionjournal.com's comments are wrong
Opinionjournal's "Best of the Web Today" featured your article today, I was surprised by their comments... what is Taranto's e-mail so I can tell him?

-----------
Trigger-Happy DiFi
"Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee criticized the heavy sentence two former Border Patrol agents received for non-fatally shooting an illegal alien who smuggled drugs across the border," reports Amanda Carpenter of TownHall.com. Carpenter describes a rather hair-raising exchange between Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat, and prosecutor Johnny Sutton:

---Feinstein asked Sutton when agents should be able to fire weapons while pursuing a fleeing suspect. Sutton replied, "If a person does not pose a threat to them, they have to use other than deadly force."

"How do they do that?"

"They chase them off."

"And, if they try to chase them and chase fails, while they are still yelling 'Stop?' "

"That does not authorize them to shoot."

"So, in other words," Feinstein clarified, "any drug dealer on the border who doesn't obey a stop command and runs, cannot be shot?"

"Yes ma'am," Sutton replied. "Unless there are other circumstances, but just the fact they are running and they were a drug dealer is not enough."

"No wonder so much drugs are coming across the border," Feinstein said.

Sutton later said that if the laws were relaxed it would mean that "some [innocent] people are going to get gunned down execution-style by a cop." ---

One wonders if Feinstein would advocate letting cops shoot unarmed fleeing suspects on the streets of San Francisco or Los Angeles.

----------------

I'm surprised opinionjournal wrote the commentary at the end...

from the article:
---Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D.-Calif.), who chaired the committee in place of Chairman Sen. Patrick Leahy (D.-Vt.) Tuesday, called it “a case of prosecutorial overreaction.”

After the hearing, Feinstein and Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) agreed they would write a letter to President Bush asking him to commute the sentences of Ramos and Compean.....

Republican senators Cornyn, Tom Coburn (Okla.), Jon Kyl (Ariz.) and Jeff Sessions (Ala.) also participated in the hearing. Feinstein was the only Democrat who attended.

Only eight months after Davila was shot, the smuggler tried again to bring marijuana into the United States--possibly on a humanitarian visa issued to him by Sutton’s prosecution team. In order to bring charges against Ramos and Compean, Sutton said it was necessary to bring Davila into the United States in order to extract the bullet from his buttocks and prove it came from an agent’s gun. The prosecution also awarded Davila with immunity in exchange for testifying against the agents.

“Looking back, it probably wasn’t a very wise [decision]” to issue a known drug dealer a humanitarian visa, Sutton said. He said he did not have enough resources to provide people like Davila with escorts back and forth across the border.

“We just don’t have enough agents to sit on every dealer,” Sutton said.

Sutton said he could not say much more about the humanitarian visa that was issued because his team is still investigating Davila’s October drug run.

While that investigation continues, Davila is currently pursuing a civil suit against the U.S. government for $5 million in damages for the injuries he suffered.----

Here's hoping she keeps chairing it instead of Leahy

Polter
forums.delphiforums.com/pc-opinion/start

This lady is right but she missed alot
of facts. The DHS was forced to release its report on this and stalled. Eventually they turned it over and had to answer question before a sub committie at which time they did state that they lied and let Sutton, who knew the truth, prosecute the agents. Lets look at this:

There were several supervisors and other agents present after this incident. That was kept quiet as the supervisors were the ones who decided to not make a report. Also after the prosecution started there were a few agents, 3 in fact, that were told they had to testify against the Other agents or lose their jobs. Under cross they didn't do well on the stand. Subsquencially later 2 were fired and 1 quit (Can't remember).

No only that but Sutton stated that the doctor said the placement of the bullet was not in line with their story of him running sideways pointing over his shoulder. However it came out later that the first doctor he went to said that it did fit their statment as the bullet went in the left side of the buttocks and stopped under the skin of his right hip. But that was supressed. Not only that but when Sutton got medical care for the vicitm the bullet was not put in the evidencary chain as is law but was taken home by I believe Sutton himself.

He also stated that the Ballistics report stated that the bullet came from one of the agents guns. What the actual report stated is that it came from 1 of three kinds of weapons and could not be proven to come from the agents guns.

Sutton hid a lot of information and lied outright and thats bad enough, but the DHS allowed it and lied themselves because they were privy to the NAU, SPP and the open boarders that were comming. Also not mentioned in this article is that 3 times Mexico sent demands to the US stating they wanted the agents prosecuted.

Johnny Sutton lied, DHS lied and lots of stuff was hidden that showed that these agents did their job and did it right. The only thing that I see is that they didn't ask permission to chase but I think thats only in a vehicle and if going over 55 mph. So with all this evidance out now, especially the DHS showing that agents and supervisors were on site and decided not to make a report, it shows us they did their job and should not have been used as scapegoats to apease Mexico and 1 illegal criminal!

Carlos
You smuggled in a truck load of drugs from Mexico as well, did you?
BTW, shooting vicious drug smugglers from Mexico, who supply up to 90% of the cocaine that is runing our inner cities, is neither kooky, nor does it have anything to do with Stalin.
It's the sensible thing to do.

Feinstein has it right Carlos
What works on our city streets does not apply at the border.

polterguis
Get a blog - this space is for comments not essays.


Stormy
"While that investigation continues, Davila is currently pursuing a civil suit against the U.S. government for $5 million in damages for the injuries he suffered.----"

What I want to know is, why is Bush not prosecuting this criminal Mexican drug smuuggler, who was caught red handed?

loribme, good post. As are
many others following this column. Personally I think Davila's "Border Agent childhood friend" and he have cooked up this deal to get rich quick (the civil lawsuit crap)after the drug cartel leaders shot Davila in the butt for failing to get the drugs across the border in the first place.

Hey good job posters! It looks like poster 'robert' was ignored this time around. Thank God!

Do some research
I forgot to tell you to go to the CFIF (Center for Individual Freedom) to see all the information I just mentioned above. They will have all the articles about these agents in their archives and you can see the reports on the cover up by DHS and Sutton that show these men are innocent. I have followed this from the beginning and read alot of the stuff out there. I've even given money to CFIF to help in their cause, and I never give money, unless I really believe in something. I'm not spouting nonsense on here but am quoating facts that have been proven and show these men did nothing wrong. I posted my information before I read some of the posts here and realise alot of you don't know much about this case and I would ask that before you believe everything your read in this article go do the research at CFIF and you will see.

SteveR
Per your question. There is no reason for Bush to right this wrong. He has stated and let us know through his secret meeting with President Fox that he intends to keep the borders open. If he pardons these innocent men then he gets blowback from Mexico and this frightens illegals from crossing. By letting this conviction stand he shows them his determination to allow the Illegal invasion of our country. This lets the Illegals know that they can cross and not have to worrry about law enforcement. Plus he is, or was so intent on the NAU, SPP act that would have effectivly eliminated all borders while stateing that he was securing them, that a pardon would have undermined his position on that. Immigration reform was the smoke and mirrors for the true agenda of The SPP to bring in the NAU and eliminate all borders and he's just trying to stand defiant till the end while innocent men launguish in prison when, as the proof shows, they did nothing wrong.

FROM LOU DOBBS SHOW


DOBBS: I’m joined now by Senator Dianne Feinstein, who led today’s hearings into the Ramos and Compean case, and Senator John Cornyn. Together, they led the questioning over the — the hearing.

If I may, Senator Feinstein, let me begin with you.

You were, frankly, far more determined than I expected. I thought you were aggressive.

Did you learn what you wanted to in today’s hearing?

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Yes. I learned what I wanted to learn. And, basically, I think this is a case of prosecutorial overreach. Senator Cornyn and I have talked and we have decided that we will write a letter to the president and we will urge commutation of the sentence, both of Border Patrol Agent Ramos and Border Patrol Agent Compean.

DOBBS: Senator Feinstein, can I just say thank you?

That’s amazing.

And Senator Cornyn, it is — I think for those of us who have been following the case, to watch the five senators in that room today, to watch each of you, it was restore — I think we could call it restorative.

You were looking for the truth. The idea of seeking computation — I know two families that are going to be thrilled, as well as those two men, for your efforts.

What — what changed — if, indeed, your views were changed — after today’s hearing?

FEINSTEIN: Do you want to go ahead, John?

Read the rest of this entry »

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/feinstein-and-cornyn-want-commutation-sentence-for-border-agents


SteveR
He can't prosecute this guy now as he was given immunity for his testimony. He would have to be caught again doing the same thing to be charged. Plus, even though the agents did nothing wrong according to the evidence I saw, he is unfortunatly still able to sue for damages. He was never charged for the crime so it leaves us open to that lawsuite.

Senate Investigation
Maybe the House investigation will dig deeper into the Travesty and really lay Sutton bare.

Sutton and his group are part of the Bush/Chertoff planed slow role to border enforcement.

Sutton should be investigated and at least fired, if not jailed.

If you cannot shoot or go over the speed limit to catch drug smugglers, what hope do we have in slowing drug smuggling?

Who makes these ignorant self defeating rules?

Campeon, Ramos and Hernandaz should be pardoned immediately!

Bush should be ashamed of what his minions are doing!

SteveR

I stand corrected... but I still don't want Grandma deciding who gets shot. Her phony compassion, like most lefties, always turns Stalinist. Soon, anyone in lefties way, gets a lead pipe over the head.

How can she prescribe killing druggies, but not terrorists? I would like her list of who she thinks should be shot.

But, you're right, borders should be different... see, these pansies are already warping my logic.

Davila Lawsuit
This lawsuit should continue and the US should issue a visa for his entry. Then arrest him at the airport on Federal drug charges. He admitted to possession of over 700 pounds of marijuana as well as being caught entering with drugs on the "humanitarian" visa.

He would be entering of his own choice so we don't have the "Dog" problem neither do we have to deal with Mexico on extradition. If however he refuses to enter the US then he cannot continue his lawsuit without physically being present in the courtroom to testify. Remember that he has to prove that he was injured and if he doesn't testify then he has no proof so he would have no case.

Border Agents
So, a criminal crosses our border, our agents chase him, tell him to stop, he does not, and we are supposed to just follow him until he escapes?

Brilliant!!!!

Maybe the whole problem is one of language, it could be like Dora the Explorer that sometimes has to inform that so and so only speaks Spanish.

The agents should have said "Parate!!!, Parate!!! and then the Nifong like would be satisfied.

Bman
Let's not forget Border Patrol Chief Aguilar, who was handed a no-confidence vote by the rank and file. He is Bush's righthand man on enforcing the law or not enforce it.

No smuggling
will be necessary soon.

According to Lou Dobbs. The Mexican drug cartels are running Marijuana "Plantations" in our naational parks here in the states. Half of that is in California. The park rangers are warning people that they must be careful because armed Mexicans are guarding these.

What next?

HOW TO STOP ALIEN CROSSING THE BORDER

1. STOP

2. PARADA, ALTO

3. BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG CLICK

4. SOUND OF RELOADING

.....COLOSSUS

ICE under Iraq rules of engagement ...
why would anyone in his right mind join the US military or the border control? it's obvious the chain of command, which is Bush's responsibility, has more respect for our enemies "rights" and the "rights" of the illegal aliens.

these are sorry times indeed when a left wing liberal demagogue is saving the bacon of our law enforcement community while our right wing cowboy president has been busy frying it. I hate to say it but Bush is apparently in the tank to some sort of "Mexican connection."

in a previous post I remarked that Reagan and Bush II were the useful idiots that intellectual Conservatives were stuck with to carry our water given our own inability to be elected by the anti-intellectuals in middle America. a similar case could be made on the left side given the apparent (until now) "southerner" requirement for the Democrat standard-bearers. it is time middle America awoke from its torpor and elected a true Goldwater Republican with the intellect to counter our impending non-choice between Hillary or Rudy.

baseballdoc
The illegals are fortunate that you and I don't live in an Arizona border town. We'd be in court everyday, being tried for murder by Johnny Sutton. Of course, we know that only deadly force can be used when one feel his or her life is threatened. With the criminal elements coming across, it would be safe to say that we are on the right side of the law.

I am surprise that we don't hear more about shootings on the border by civilians in self defense. Arizona is a CCW state.

This video explains the DHS lies
Watch this and see more on YouTube on this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0U8-K0ibi8 very enlightning.

Sorry this video is better at showing

Stormy: Excellent posts!

This whole situation is reprehensible!

I'm glad you posted the facts that you posted.. before I HAD to look for them. WND has done some remarkable investigating.

The ONLY good thing that seems to have come from this travesty is that this is ONE issue that has galvanized this country. Rep. and dem alike are appalled by how these to Border Agents have been treated.




CLOSING THE BORDER IS TERRIBLE...

If this enforcement keeps up...

-There will be less workers, and unemployment will drop to zero?

-My low wages will go up, and I'll have too much money.

-The price of my neighbor's cocaine will rise, and he may dry out?

-We may elect another Republican if this happens.

Isn't anyone scared?

Juan Sutton
I loved his answer about what the Border Patrol is supposed to with a fleeing suspect. "Stop in the name of the law. I say, stop in the name of the law." That oughta stop them.

Rocky JOne alias Roberto?
"Because to get a CCW, you have to understand the law...and obviously you dont understand it in terms of deadly force."

Robert, I see you have changed your name, but still the top law-enforcement officer in the land.

Read what I said. One can only use "deadly force" in "self defense". Self defense can mean someone drawing a knife, a gun, a big rock or even a baseball bat, anything you deem a threat to your life. I have been licensed in five different states, including SC at a time when licenses were only issued in limited cases. I have never found the need to draw. I have been in fist fights and never once thought about drawing. Like any CCW holder, deadly force against deadly force is drilled into our heads.

As to the border turmoil, yes, illegal aliens are treking through the back yards of homes in Arizona. The last number I read was 7,000 a night. I sure hell wouldn't walk outside without packing. If someone trespasses on my land, I would tell them to get the hell off my land. I would expect in many ocassions, the intruder(s) would give me the finger. I would also expect I'd be outnumbered. Now, if they start ganging up on me, throwing rocks or any action where I feel I am in grave danger, you're damn right I would draw. And, I only draw when I intend to kill. What is that I don't understand?

My point was when border agents are being shot at regularly on the Arizona border, civilians who want to protect their property and family should be prepare for the worst. It is a WAR ZONE!!

Can you believe this???

This case remind's me of Mr. Don king, the boxing promoter,------only in America!

Its obvious
These men were prosecuted to send the message to all Border Patrol.

Leave the illegal aliens alone, even if they are drug runners.

Anyone ever hear of drug runner being unarmed?

More of a chance being struck by lighting than a drug runner who is unarmed.

The druggie says he wasn't, he had so much credence with Sutton, Sutton accepted that w/o evidence, but rejected the word of the Agents.
What would cause Sutton to believe the drug runner over the agents?
I know, the Bush policy to allow illegals in.

The man needs to be put into solitary confinment the Agents are in, and serve both terms for those the Agents.

Ladies and Gentlemen
Does anyone doubt that if the President had wanted the prosecution of these men not to take place, that it would have?

Does anyone believe if Chertoff was told to Seal out Borders, that he would not?

Does anyone really believe that if we enforced our present laws that we could immediately begin to arrest and jail Illegal Aliens and their supporters. [Just read "Title 8 of the U.S. Code (8 USC).]

Does anyone doubt that if we began jailing these Illegas, that the others would begin to deport themselves.

They say the fish rots from the head down.

I too voted for G. W. Bush, “King Jorge”, twice and I am so sorry I ever did.

I wonder...
Feinstein may see this as an "end run" to the impeachment of Pres. Bush.

Watch this carefully.

If you break in....
Who of us should allow any person to enter our house without our permission? I would very likely shoot you if you did so. Our borders should be treated the same way. Shoot those who are entering without permission. It is not a matter of self defense. Far from it. It is a matter of National Defense. I would go so far as to approve the use of armed Predators and snipers to nullify the north - bound traffic.

In this case, Sutton is aiding and abetting. That makes him a perpetrator, and he should be prosecuted. His buddy, Davila, should be shot at the earliest convenience. There are people who just need killing. Davila is one.

RICH AGENTS, POOR GVMT LIARS
1. RAMOS, COMPEAN, HERNANDEZ - it's just a matter of time - you will be very rich soon - courtesy of taxpayers, and I love it!

2. sutton and nifong - buy false IDs from your amigos and run, pen - dejos!!!
We will hang you high!! Figuratively, unfortunately.

JUST A MATTER OF TIME

Most of the commenters don't know ...
what they're talking about. For instance, most of you are trashing the prosecutor, Mr. Sutton, but did you know that Mr. Sutton has consistently supported the Border Patrol in prosecuting many thousands of illegal aliens and cross-border drug smugglers, achieving the second highest prosecution and conviction rate of any border area Federal prosecutor? (exceeded only by the southern district of Texas). And that he is a conservative Republican, appointed by a conservative Republican President? And that he proved beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury of 12 that the two BP officers were guilty of crimes as charged?

Whether the jury understood the penalties of a guilty verdict is immaterial, because in the USA, juries are strictly limited to serving as finders of fact - with the only exception to that restriction being capital cases (which this was not) where some but not all States allow the jury to decide the sentence (death vs. imprisonment).

By the way, the same Congress that is bemoaning the fate of these two lawbreakers is the same Congress that established mandatory sentencing laws that required the judge to issue the sentences meted out in this case.

Many of the idiots commenting on this page demand that the rules of engagement be changed to allow Border Patrol agents to shoot on sight, and shoot to kill, anyone seen crossing the border. This sentiment is in direct opposition to the fact that in America every person is adjudged innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers, and that everybody is entitled to a jury trial. I don't know about the mental state and intelligence is of some of the idiot comment writers on this page, but certainly I and a vast majority of Americans cherish our American system of rights and jurisprudence, and we would never allow any law officer to serve unilaterally as judge, jury, and executioner. Of course, if a perpetrator is directly threatening the life and limb of an officer or another person, the officers on the scene are fully entitled to use deadly force as necessary. But in this case, that was not the case.

The guilty Border Patrol agents first encountered the suspect who attempted to surrender. The first BP officer on the scene declined to accept the suspect's surrender by attempting to smash the suspect in the head with the butt of his shotgun. In trying to brain the surrendering unarmed suspect, the officer lost his balance and fell to the ground. The suspect then seeing that he was not going to be allowed to surrender, and in obvious fear for his life, attempted to flee across the Rio Grande to Mexico. Then the BP officer fired his gun 15 times at the fleeing suspect, missing the first 14 times and finally hitting the suspect in the buttocks on the 15th shot (where did this guy learn how to shoot?).

Then, our "hero", realizing that the rules of engagement prohibit the shooting of a fleeing suspect who is unarmed and poses no threat to life or limb, proceeded to leave the bleeding suspect lying there on the ground ... did not even bother to approach and arrest the suspect (allowing him to escape to Mexico without further officer involvement) ... and thereupon spent his remaining time (along with the other accomplice officer) on the scene gathering up and hiding the fired shell casings to cover up his "bad shoot". Neither of the two officers submitted a truthful report on their bad shoot. Other officers who arrived at the scene also assisted the officers in the coverup, while some of the other officers eventually (under pressure of indictment as accessories) admitted to the bad shoot and the coverup, testifying to that effect to the jury in the officers' trial.

Such are the facts of this case.

Which is why the two officers were convicted by a jury of their peers. In "hang'em high" West Texas, to boot. This wasn't exactly a jurisdiction given to San Francisco liberalism, or disrespect for the law and law officers.

These guys were bad officers. They were not heroes. Their own supervisors testified against them, and pointed out in their Senate testimony that two bad officers like these guys make the jobs of the other thousands of honest and trustworthy Border Patrol officers vastly harder to perform.

You are defending the wrong guys.

That the original suspect is a bad guy is immaterial to the guilt of the bad officers. That the Border Patrol must be subject to the same restraints we place on every other officer of the law in America should not even be a matter of debate. This is a nation of laws, and this is NOT the former East Berlin where we empower uniformed officers to execute suspects on the spot just for crossing a border. If certain idiots commenting on this page wish that that were so, well, that is tough luck. They need to move to Russia where they will be most happy to have law enforcement types running around assassinating political dissidents and anyone else who displeases them. But this is America, thanks to Americans who reject that kind of governmental tyranny.

It is quite interesting that people who call themselves "conservatives" and who profess to hate excessive government intrusion into our lives are quite happy to have government make the ultimate intrusion - i.e., government-inflicted death - turned into a common everyday occurrence in order to be spared the horror of having people who don't look like them or talk like them around to offend their sensibilities. All done, of course, in the name of "respect for the law" ... a law that they obviously do not understand or respect themselves when they demand instant executions for anybody they do not like.

If you spend any time out in the woods,
the back country, or the desert, you get to where you can recognize a Rattlesnake, a skunk and rabid coyote.

You can also recognize a harmless black snake, a chipmonk, and a rabbit.

Justice should be blind, but not stupid.

Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila was a skunk. Period, end of story.

Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean deserved better than they got at the hands of the government.

There are shades of grey, and there is black and white. There are enough shades of grey in the actions of Compean and Ramos to have gone easy easier on them.

There is enough of a black and white guilt distinction on Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila actions that he should be doing hard time.

Sutton is a skunk.

athingortwo
There are several points of fact that you have left out of your diatribe.

- The jury was not only misinformed as to the consequences of a conviction on one of the counts (which you claim is irrelevant to the case), they were also not given all the information needed to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. Affadavits from three members of the jury stated that they would have voted to acquit if they had that information at the trial. That fact may lead to the convictions being reversed. What you say is irrelevant is in plain fact very relevant, because it changed the outcome of the trial.

- The law used to convict the two agents was never intended to be used against law enforcement officers, and constitutes an invalid application of the law.

- It was Sutton who claimed that there were 16 shots fired, a figure which he invented. A maximum of 6 shots were actually fired, and there is considerable doubt whether or not the suspect was even hit. The bullet allegedly taken from the posterior of the suspect was not tested for the DNA of the suspect, and the bullet was out of the chain of custody for several hours. That itself is enough for reasonable doubt. That no blood was collected from the site leads to even greater doubt of the prosecutions claims.

- At no time did the two agents ever report that the suspect was attempting to surrender. How that assessment is made is unclear as, according to Sutton's argument, no other agents were in the vicinity to witness the events. Even if the testimony of the agents is accepted in this regard, and there were other agents close by, according to that testimony, they were not in a position where they could see the approach of the suspect and could not, therefore, determine an attitude of surrender. The fact that agent Compean was injured by the suspect defeats your argument by itself.

- The two agents apparently were not very good at "hiding" those shell casings, as they testified that they did pick up the shell casings and discarded them in full view of the other agents who were present. The charge they were attempting to hide the evidence is ludicrous.

- As to the character of Johnny Sutton, he may very well have the record you cite, but then so did Mike Nifong. It only took one case to bring him down. His previous record was exemplary.

- Your labeling of everyone else as an idiot, in the light of the weakness of your claims, casts you in a dubious light.

It is governmental tyranny that we are trying to undo in this case. Sutton was only one of the players involved. We need to also focus on the federal investigator who, according to several sources, was engaged in an all-out effort to prove the guilt of the agents even before the trial began. Our prosecutors and federal investigators have no business whatsoever defending illegal aliens caught smuggling drugs. That's what defense attorneys are for.

Big Black Dog
If it's not worth discussing, why do you discuss it?

BTW, Big Black Dog
Why did you only pick the weakest and most irrelevant of inklings post? Why not answer the more substantive parts and prove that you actually CAN defend Clinton?

It doesn't take a lot to defend Clinton
Just a total lack of scruples, lack of values, and lack of shame.

Old Whig's reply to "athingortwo"
Gee, Well said. I wish I had written that.

A question please. I read early on that the B.P. Agent's Supervisor was on the site just after the escape of Davila. That was before they returned to their office. I assume that is true since I have read it several times. Why was he not asking for the report if he wanted one? There is more to this than we have been told.

One other thing; the B.P. Agent from Arizona, who was a relative to Davila and was able to direct the HSD people to him to offer immunity, that seems a little suspicious also.


I think the one thing we can agree on is your statement, "It is governmental tyranny that we are trying to undo in this case."


Follow the money...
I wonder how Sutton is doing, financially speaking. He and other principles in this case must have accounts in the Caymans, chocked full of drug money. I don't see any other explanation.

By the way, Mr. Athingortwo, I also would support mining the border if it were not for the likelyhood that the clever bastards would figure out how to dig 'em up and use them against our Border Patrol. No Entry, means just that. The signs should have the skull and crossbones on them and we should back it up with lethal force.

Is this a Seinfeld skit?
Am I living in a bizarro world? Sen. Feinstein is coming to the defense of border agents asking Bush to commute the sentences? If this doesn't just take the cake! What in the samhell is Bush doing sitting on his hands all this time and now a libstain demonrat has to show him the right thing to do? This makes me sick to my stomach!
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