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Tuesday, June 26, 2007
Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Senate Immigration Bill Restarted
by Amanda Carpenter
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


The Senate voted 64-35 in favor of restarting debate on legislation to grant legal status to millions of illegal aliens residing in the United States Monday afternoon.

Immediately after the vote, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D.-Nev.) filed a cloture motion, which would end debate on the bill and order a final vote. Cloture is a three day process that requires one day to file, one day for debate and then one day to vote on the legislation.

To speed up the process, Reid has employed procedural move dubbed the “clay pigeon” to limit the numbers of amendments that could be made to the bill. To do this, he introduced a single amendment that will be divided into 24 or 25 smaller amendments of his choice.

Senators will vote on amendments to the bill Tuesday afternoon and all day Wednesday.

On Tuesday morning before the vote, President Bush predicted Senate passage of the bill by the week’s end. He said, “We’ll be moving our attention to the House after the Senate passes this comprehensive piece of legislation.”

Bush also said, "The country is better off. Our soul is constantly renewed. Our spirit is invigorated when people come here and realize the blessings of America. And so the bill that we've worked hard to craft is an important piece of legislation that addresses the needs of a failed system, that says we're going to change for the better."

On June 7, the bill fell 15 votes short of the 60 needed votes for cloture. Senators opposed to the bill argued more time was needed to amend the legislation, but supporters of the bill called the vote a stalling tactic. Leader Reid adhered to a strict-two week time frame he had scheduled for work on the bill. After the June 7 vote failed to get the necessary votes, Reid took up other pieces of legislation while senators continued to negotiate the bill.

Since the June 7 vote, there were 22 vote changes.

Democratic Sens. Jeff Bingaman (Colo.), Barbara Boxer (Calif.) and Jim Webb (Va.) had voted put off a final vote on the bill on June 7, but voted to restart work today.

The following Republicans also changed their vote: Sens. Bob Bennett (Utah), Kit Bond (Mo.), Richard Burr (N.C.), Norm Coleman (Minn.), Susan Collins (Maine), Pete Domenici (N.M.), John Ensign (Nev.), Judd Gregg (N.H.), Trent Lott (Miss.), Mitch McConnell (Ky.), Lisa Murkowski (Ala.), Olympia Snowe (Maine), Ted Stevens (Alaska) and John Warner (Va.).

Michigan senator Debbie Stabenow (D.) had previously voted in favor of a final vote on the legislation, but today voted against restarting work on the bill.

Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback (R.), who is running for the GOP’s nomination for President, did not vote on June 7. Today he voted in favor of opening debate. Sen. Tom Coburn (R.-Okla.) and Sen. Mike Enzi (Wyo.) also did not vote on June 7, but voted against restarting the bill Tuesday.

Additionally, the newly-installed Sen. John Barrasso (R.-Wyo.), the replacement for the late Sen. Craig Thomas who died on June 4, voted against cloture.

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About The Author
Amanda Carpenter is the author of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton,” published in October 2006.
 
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Impeach Bush and the senate
They should all be impeached and thrown in jail. This is a huge insult to America that this so called "bill" was passed. America unlike the poster above me trys to say... is CLEARLY against this bill. The American people came out to oppose this horrible bill and the govt basicly told us to go screw ourselves.

If Bush signs this, he has finally secured his Legacy amoung worst Presidents in US History EVER along with the likes of FDR, Carter, and LBJ.

This is NOT over and we will fight to the bitter end. A campaign to impeach Bush from conservatives is now going to get into full swing.

I HAVE NAMES!!!
This is hot off the Senate Record, get on the phone or e-mail or whatever, STOP AMNESTY!

Republicans Voting to Bring BACK Amnesty:
Bennett (UT)
Bond (MO) - I am soooo ashamed
Brownback(KS)
Burr (NC)
Coleman (MN)
Collins (ME)
Craig (ID)
Domenici (NM)
Ensign (NV)
Graham (SC)
Gregg (NH)
Hagel (NE)
Kyl (AZ)
Lott (MS)
Lugar (IN)
Martinez (FL)
McCain (AZ)
McConnell (KY)
Murkowski (AK)
Snowe (ME)
Spector (PA)
Stevens (AK)
Voinovich (OH)
Warner (VA)

Democrats Voting AGAINST Bring Back Amnesty:
Daucus (MT)
Bayh (IN)
Byrd (WV)
Dorgan (ND)
Landrieu (LA)
McCaskill (MO) - I am stunned but happy
Rockefeller (WV)
Sanders (VT)
Stabenow (MI)
Tester (MT)

Republicans Voting AGAINST Bring Back Amnesty:
Alexander (TN)
Allard (CO)
Barasso (WY)
Bunning (KY)
Chambliss (GA)
Coburn (OK)
Cochran (MS)
Cocker (TN)
Cornyn (TX)
Carpo (ID)
DeMint (SC)
Dole (NC)
Enzi (WY)
Grassley (IA)
Hatch (UT)
Hutchinson (TX)
Inhofe (OK)
Isakson (GA)
Roberts (GA)
Sessions (AL)
Shelby (AL)
Smith (OR)
Sununu (NH)
Thune (SD)
Vitter (LA)

Support those who support us and call those who would betray us and tell them we won't take it!

Et Tu Brute
Impeach Bush. The dagger runs deep into America's back.

Traitors
Who had the cojones today? A female Democrat! A Democrat had more balls than 16 Republicans. Pathetic.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Almost all Dems and Republicans support the agenda of the CFR. This is part of the plan. They want to flood our country with cheap labor. There is too much money in the middle class. (Bush is turning the trucking industry over to Mexicans, just another job Americans won't do?) To talk about the illegal/amnesty problem while ignoring the formation of the NAU is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Amnesty is the symptom, the North American Union is the disease. Even most of the people on this site refuse to face the fundamental issue. We are in the fight for our lives. It is past time to confront those quislings with what they are really doing.

Bush's SPP(Security and Prosperity Partnership) summits are for the purpose of planning integration.

Rocker must be living in some alternative reality. Heard a Rasmussen poll quoted this morning. About 70% of Dems and 85% of Republicans oppose the bill. A small minority?

"God Bless America"? Say hello to your new country, the North AMerican Union. I guess Rocker is one of those libs who hate our country and thinks we need to commit suicide. That or he is a moron.


Call Home
I called Congressman John Culberson of TX. His staff claims he will do what he can to kill the immigration bill. Call your Congress person and find out where they are at on stopping the bill. We need a list of traitors and waffles. We need to get the list now instead of later.

Calling Dems will be very necessary. They need to fear for thier seat.

Also, the nutroots are appossed to this bill for the wrong reasons but the nutroots may be most helpful. If you live in one of the leftwing districts make sure you call.

Thanks!
The President continues to raise his middle finger to his base.

And, like a battered woman who keeps going back to her abuser, you people will STILL defend him.

You get what you deserve.

Ellen Waldstein
No real conservative will EVER defend Bush again. He has sealed his "legacy" alright.

Impeach Bush. The conservative movement is growing.

Immigration Bill
There are a lot of people here who need to take a deep breath and read what actually happened today. A bill wasn't passed! Some of these people that voted in favor of bringing back debate may have done so for the right reasons. When you lose your mind and sound hysterical, you don't get attention, not the good kind anyway. Let's make our reps understand how we feel about amnesty. Let us also recognize that immigration reform is needed and that requires debate of some kind. And most important let's make sure our reps understand you can't do anything until you close the door!

Shamamnesty Bill
This Senate immigration bill is insane. I can not believe it is going to reward and give amnesty to many people who came in here on a Fulbright scholarship, but decided to live here illegally by overstaying their J-1 Visas.

This generous country gave them an opportunity to come here legally, and they blatantly disrepected our laws. What makes this country great is the respect for our laws. If we start down the path of ignoring our laws, we will become like so many other countries full of chaos, anarchy, and bribed-based "justics."

I feel betrayed and sick!
I must have made 50 phone calls and sent over 150 emails to Senators on this bill over the last month or so.

The big difference between wehn the call for cloture failed by 15 votes and today is that in the meantime they added $4.4 billion to the bill.

Amazing how easy it is for our standup Senators to sell their souls.

Please remember this next election. There is no reason for any politician to be in Washington for more than 12 years. They get poluted and vote where the money tells them to vote and the hell with the people.

The reelection rate is too high (85 to 90%) and they realize the people are too dumb and lazy to vote them out.

NOT THIS TIME! Vote against any incumbant in the next election we need new blood.

POLITICIANS ARE LIKE DIAPERS - THEY NEED TO BE CHANGED AND FOR THE SAME REASON!

i HAVE TO THROW UP NOW

Idiots and Traitors
It seems to me that Reid has the whole debate issue in his pocket... So, voting for cloture was tantamount to voting for the bill. This is a very sad day in American history.

I am ready for a new Conservative party that follows the Constitution. Out with the old, in with the new. I've had it with politicians who don't listen to the people who elected them.

I'm just sick about this. What can we do now?

No Less than Treason!
same as a vote for amnesty: These senators voted Yes and are traitors to this Country. It is time to demand a trial for treason.
Akaka (D-HI)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Brownback (R-KS)
Burr (R-NC)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Craig (R-ID)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Durbin (D-IL)
Ensign (R-NV)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (R-SC)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Schumer (D-NY)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)

What is in the Bill
I heard there is a section in the bill to create a special counsel to look into the mistreatment of Nazis and Fascists living in America during WWII. They want to investigate how they were treated and decide if they should be paid restitution. Wonderful, huh?

Link to that story here:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjZhM2YzNDljZjM4MTIyZDFkZmZmMTNlNmExMjY0NjE=

Rocker's on crack
Job well done? Silent majority? I guess that 85% of the population is a minority to you. That's the number I keep hearing in the news of those opposing the legalization of the invasion.

Now they have to brace themselves for the loud and vocal majority and there will be hell to pay.

Brownback just ended his candidacy today along with McCain. Let's see if your "majority" can resurrect their campaigns. Not a chance in hell!

Forget about the traitor Bush,
we need to focus on 2008! How many more times are we going to vote for any of these elites, everyone a traitor, including the newest darling of the GOP, Fred Thompson, who was a supporter of that other beautiful piece of legislation, McCain/Feingold?!

Everyone is angry, some are calling for a revolution, impeach this guy and that guy, call your Senator or representative! Don't you folks get it? The two parties have assured themselves power, convinced everyone that they are invulernable to the will of the people! How,by establishing the myth that only they are capable of rule, only they are wise enough, smart enough, experienced enough? It is the old tactic of telling a lie over and over until it is believed!

There is one way to disabuse the elites of this notion. There is one way to show them we are the owners of this great country. There is one way to stand up and reclaim the birthright they have stolen from us. DENY THEM WHAT THEY DESIRE THE MOST, THE PRESIDENCY.

On my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG, I explain how we can do that. We can assert our authority and restore the Constitution, rule of law, and will of the people as the principles by which we govern ourselves as a free people! If elected, I will stand up to them, challenge them every time they want to ignore the Constitution! If you think I would not, why do you think so? I have no fear of them, their political machines, the PACs, and their money handling lobbyist cronies! And, let me tell you, I have no fear of Putin or any other world leader who hates America. I will gladly tell the UN elites what I think about the New World Order/One World Government agenda they have in mind.

We cannot afford another election where we vote for the lesser of two evils! It is time for drastic action to avoid a future of more big government and less personal freedom. We do not need another Justice O'Connor telling us OUR Constitution should be interpreted in light of the laws of other third world, backwater dictatorships! We do not need more McCain/Feingold laws that only protect incumbents but does nothing for someone like myself, who hasn't got any chance of raising up $100 million unless a million of you want to send $10 each.


Washington is out of control with our lives and the future of our children, and we need to take drastic action if we intend to stop the politicians. Get to my website and email me with your thoughts. Are we going to act, or just write posts to TH and complain? This is the time and we need to think very seriously about whether or not we will reclaim our inheritance! I hope to hear from you. Thanks, Joe

Impeach Bush Now
Call your representatives today and ask them to impeach Bush for refusing to obey the law by sealing the boarder and not prosecuting employers who give the invaders jobs.

majgross
"Cloture is a three day process that requires one day to file, ONE DAY FOR DEBATE, and then one day to vote on the legislation." You're right we shouldn't be worried.

Ellen I can't remember the last time I heard anyone on Townhall defend Bush. Personally when he said, "family values don't end at the Rio Grande", I was done.

Found out about the whole CFR/North American Union agenda over a year ago and have been following that closely. Bush is a SCUMBAG, TRAITOR. Sadly a lot of people on this site completely ignore the CFR agenda which is suicidal because it is moving ahead rapidly and mostly by stealth. No one is paying attention.

There is talk about 1776. Too late, Bush has passed directives under National and HOmeland Security that he can create martial law. Without congressional oversight or approval, "insurection" can be a trigger.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55923
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56014

Well said Ellen
"Thanks!
The President continues to raise his middle finger to his base.

And, like a battered woman who keeps going back to her abuser, you people will STILL defend him.

You get what you deserve."

majgross
No debate is deserved here when they start out with a closed door process to craft an amnesty package to later shove down our throats.

No Debate - No Amnesty.

Our representatives need to get back to basics - enforce the current laws, go after employers, deport criminals, secure the border - then we can entertain an open debate - not before.

Bush Is A TRAITOR

I voted for Bush twice and I am sorry for it.

I gave Bush money and I want it back.

Lampson
I called Nick Lampson's office. They were a bit gun shy and evasive but claimed that Lampson had always been against Amnesty.

See if you can get straight answers out of some other Congress persons.

Call the troops home now
Tell Iraq to go to hell....save our men now.
These fools have gone crazy.
Service men...you are suffering in vain for an America that is lost....
While you fight. the foreign invaders arrive here on our own border to kill us.
With their drunk driving.
With their gangs.
With their diseases.
And they use your wives.
While you fight...they creep into your homes.
We see it all the time.....

Immigration Amnesty
For those that still had doubts as to the damage the Bush Dynasty has done, doubt no more.
Mr. Bush and senior have managed to push back the party to pre-Reagan times.
This bill is a scam and has only one purpose, to court the hispanic vote. My guess is that with this bill the GOP will have a net loss in votes. The lost votes on the base will far outweigh the gains on the hispanic vote.
Fast forward to 2008..the day after the election a hangover GOP will contemplate "How the hell did we manage to loose the presidency, the senate and the congress within a few years?"

The passage of the bill is one of those pivotal moments.
Enjoy your next twenty years in oppositon..and don't forget to thank Bush.

The only way this means anything
is if We The People hold our elected officials accountable for acting against the will of the people.

-------------------------------------

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

--------------------------------------

Vote the traitors out of office!

Troubling
We only loose if we allow it. The people are the power in America. I'm not going to abandon the Republican party just because a bunch of loser Senators decided that they want to act like Democrats. Let them leave the party. As long as we have people like DeMint, Sessions, Dole, Hatch, Thune, and others we have a chance. The House appearently get the message, they are trying to fix the mess we're in.

We best work to get the Senate to vote this down, if that fails we go to the House. It will most likely die in committee, as the House both Dem and Rep have expressed oppoision to the bill as they are all up for reelection.

No more talk of a third party or a new conservative party, we only divide our strength and let the Democrats win. We need to retake our party, let Jorge Bush leave, he's no Republican he's a d**n Democrat.

Go to the primaries, go the polls, use your money/funds, retake the GOP, and retake America.

Impeachment for all of them.
All of them from the President on down should be impeached for their Treasonous acts against Our Country!! They should then be tried and if found guilty, "Hung From the Tree of Liberty".

If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government. — Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist (#28)

Drew
You are so wrong on this! How the h--- can anyone still trust these people? They got Bush in power, we all fell for it, even though we knew in our hearts that he was no conservative.

If another elite gets to the Presidnecy in 2008, by the end of 2009 you will be wondering what happened again as the elites push their agenda. It is guaranteed! No more elites for me, Dem or GOP!

It's Back!!!
Not only is this travesty still alive; we have now have more Republicans thinking of changing their minds in favor of this thing. What in hadies are they thinking? One, the destruction of our country adding millions of low or no skilled workers with the burden of providing all their services.
Two, a minor thing in commparison is the end of the Republican Party. These fools voting for this mess will never be have the confidence of their constituents who voted them in can as easily send them packing. Does anyone out there in Washington have a lick of sense or love of country? I think not!!! Hope they wake up before it's too late!!

First good Bush has done since 9/12
This is the first time I'm even remotely proud of this President, at least since he did the 'very best' job he could uniting the country after 9/11.

I'm an American-born, American-raised male WASP, I'm a constituent of a D Rep, 2 D Senators, and Pres. Bush, all of whom support this legislation, and I don't feel betrayed at all.

To 98% of TH posters on this subject:
Your firm knowledge that an open immigration policy will somehow destroy our nation is built on nothing more than lies and fear-mongering, laid on you by nameless talk-radio hosts and rogue preachers who have in turn been buying in to this Administration's constant fear-mongering and hate-baiting for all things un-WASP, fueled by the repetitive mention of anger-inducing images and stories of 9/11. It's transparent, it's tired, it's unhealthy, and it's unAmerican.

Immigrants are the strength behind this superpower, always have been, always will be. It is you, conservatives, denying the intentions of our Founding Fathers, and you who is continuing this nation's painful history of racism and Anglo-supremacy.

Support your congress members who support an easy track to legalization. This is America!

Time To Boycott Las Vegas
They think that opponents to amnesty are the minority, a mear 20%.

I think that it's time to show them different.

They tell me it's the money that talks.

Our forefathers didn't intend for government to run this way.

Maybe it's time to boycott business in these states that voted for the bill.

JeffRob
You are absolutely correct..but you forgot to add the word "legal" which is the heart of the matter.

Cooler Heads
I'm busy working my way through as much as the text of the bill as possible and I see some good things. I would hope that in debate, the good could be kept and the bad thrown out. But that is just my optimistic nature. My point still stands though that irrational calls for impeachment will not solve anything.

And to those who choose to use this as just another forum to attack President Bush and soldiers, why do you bother coming to a site where people actually debate issues? As a soldier, I don't need or want your help.

immigration bill
anything that lifeguard teddy helps write is further betrayal of america. Teddy is socialist and will always turn his back on the values of this country. after the fiasco education bill bush didn't learn his lesson

Next time your Shamnesty Senator asks
. . . for your support, tell him that you are tired of carrying water for him long enough, and you are only too happy to let his newly legalized constituents to take over for you.

foxfire 22
from what I saw on a trip to vegas is that a majority of those there probably pay no attention to the news let alone this amnesty betrayal.

my God
to the last poster.. are you a product of our gov/'t schools? is that why you have no knowledge of the past two all inclusive immigration bills to pass in congress ('65 and '86)??? You honestly believe this will be different? Let me type real slow so that you may be able to get this... if you reward lawbreakers (illegal immigrants) with citizenship, you will get more lawbreakers (illegal immigrants) In '86 they waived thru 3 million. Now we are going to waive in 12 million. In the year 2028 we will be waiving in 48 million (do the math) I agree with the proposal to impeach that phony balonie rino W; and put cheney in his place (on a short leash. He should be compassionately impeached.

retepger
You mean I should have said that only legal immigrants have been the strength of our country?

That's like saying that only children conceived in wedlock end up going to college. It's not based in fact whatsoever, and is an easy way to comfort your hyped up worship of the "rule of law".

The only difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant is a quiz and a certificate.

Thhe Silent Minority Spoke
__Those quiet thieves,guarding their treasury,spoke with force to protect their treasury suppliers.Liberal ideology of,what's Americas,is mine,and what's mine is mine.Our representation in this country just voted to consider legislation allowing criminals a free pass.Illegal aliens,and those who have gained profit from them.Whether an employer,or a landlord,these traitors stole from the American people for years.Now,with this legislation,those same criminals receive amnesty.Just as their liberal representation hopes to gain security,and power,by their support.The silent minority kept their mouths shut has they collected hidden profit.To the detriment of America,and any alien who entered this country legally.

jeffrob
I guess that, in your mind, the only difference between an invited dinner guest and a home invader is a "quiz and a certificate".

Stay off of those drugs.

JeffRob
Having cildren out of wedlock is not illegal, coming in to this country crossing the border at night is.

Reply to Chaotic Ramblings "Idiots & Tr
Chaotic Ramblings writes: Tuesday, June, 26, 2007 3:08 PM
Idiots and Traitors
"It seems to me that Reid has the whole debate issue in his pocket... So, voting for cloture was tantamount to voting for the bill."

Well, it takes 60 votes for cloture and 51 votes to pass the bill. I understand there were 65 votes for cloture. IF all those who voted for cloture should vote YES on this bill, it will pass. From articles I've read, "the plan" may be to allow some cloture-YES senators to vote NO on the bill itself to appease their constituents (as long as at least 51 have agreed to vote YES). (If your Senator voted FOR cloture but AGAINST the bill, DO NOT BELIEVE his self-congratulatory press releases about opposing amnesty!) So, it hasn't truly passed yet, but it doesn't look real good from an anti-amnesty point of view.

The fat lady HAS NOT SUNG!
It ain't over folks. Not yet.

We have until Friday. THAT'S when they vote on it.

Oh, I am UPSET! but let's take a breath here.

Evne AFTER the vote

SHAMNESTY GOES TO THE HOUSE!

We have some REAL GOOD PEOPLE in the house!

Don't forget them when you write, call and fax!

illegals
what don't libs understand about illegals breaking the law. Or is it that libs only obey the laws they believe in and if they think a law is faulty then it can be violated without legal recourse. Illegals have broken our laws concerning entry into this country. What is it that libs can't comprehend about this simple fact, a fact that is so simple that even they should understand it

More soup, please? No? Ok.
If the hospitality you display to your dinner guests varies according to how long it's been since they arrived, may I never find myself at your table. Surely none of your guests have been there very long. I don't find your dinner table to be a very welcoming place.

Of course, in your analogy, I'm already helping myself to a second helping of your wife's lovely mashed potatoes. Me and my gay boyfriend, muslim sister-in-law, and draft-dodging hippie dad. Mind if we sleep over?

Concentrate on the House

The House is where this must be killed. The Senate will pass it. They sold us out last year. The only thing that has changed is that we lost a few votes. We all know the President will sign it. Every House member is up for re-election in 2008. Democrat and Republican. Everyone has to contact their House member, get your neighbors, friends, co-workers, etc. to do the same. Whether you voted for them or not, they need to hear from you. You can find them here:

http://www.house.gov.com/

Exclusive: The Truth About ‘La Raza’
Exclusive: The Truth About ‘La Raza’

This op-ed was published a little over a year ago in Human Events by the late GA Rep. Charlie Norwood. It is very central to the Shamnesty proposals before us now. To me the obvious danger of empowering millions of illegal aliens that have no allegiance to America or it’s values, is the overwhelming issue here with this bill.

Exclusive: The Truth About ‘La Raza’
by Rep. Charlie Norwood
Posted: 04/07/2006

…….For law-abiding Americans without knowledge of the dark side of our current illegal immigration crisis, all this is unfathomable. For those who know the truth about the “La Raza” movement, these demonstrations were a prophecy fulfilled.

It is past time for all Americans to know what is at the root of this outrageous behavior, and the extent to which the nation is at risk because of “La Raza” — The Race.

Read the rest of this entry »

http://controlcongress.com/in-the-news/exclusive-the-truth-about-la-raza

One Thing At a Time
If this bill has good parts, then why don't we pass it in parts? I don't want amnesty this is about the law. First we need Washington to pass a law to really secure the borders when that is done and ONLY when that is done do we worry about the people here. If we don't plug the leak the boat sinks, we'll worry about to done with the water on board once we're safe from drowning.

Keep up our assult on DC, I just got done e-mailing some 20 to 30 Senators. And yes Joe, we can retake the GOP. In fact it is real simple: we get real conservatives to be nominated in the primaries we fund them and then we elect them in the primaries an the general election. If they go back on our priniciples then we either recall them or we vote them out at the next election. And we do it every time and say vigilant. It is the only way to save our selves from the socialism of the Democratic party.

I'm gonna throw up... then have a

good cry.
Then I'm gonna figure out how to impeach Bush, recall all the traitor senators, and stop this piece o'sh*t bill for good!

jeffrob
Huh?

Because I wouldn't invite an invader to sit at my table, it's not a welcome place? Well, yea dummy. In my analogy, you broke into my home you idiot.

If you want to invite the world, including criminals, into your home, go ahead. Just don't expect the rest of us to be that dumb.

By the way, are you one person or two?

Reply to JeffRob
JeffRob writes: Tuesday, June, 26, 2007 5:21 PM
retepger
"You mean I should have said that only legal immigrants have been the strength of our country?

That's like saying that only children conceived in wedlock end up going to college. It's not based in fact whatsoever, and is an easy way to comfort your hyped up worship of the "rule of law".

The only difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant is a quiz and a certificate."

No, the difference is that one is LEGAL and one is NOT LEGAL. One played fair, followed the laws, waited his turn. One didn't. I come home at night & find somebody in my house: It's not Uncle Bob, who I've given a key & said "drop in anytime"; it's a stranger. You're trying to tell me this stranger in my house is benign, possibly he just wants directions to the bus station? I'm saying, if he's in my house uninvited, I assume he does not have good intentions toward me and my property. Somebody who breaks into my house does NOT deserve a pass even if my idiot in Congress says we should call his breaking and entering, just this one (more) time, legal. No.

bridge
your mistake in thinking is that in the kumbaya world of liberals there is no evil other than president bush. When you discover a stranger in your house it is because you need an interior decorator. Thus have no fear from illegals, they are really are firends just coming to call

Social Contract/Shared Expectations/Law
Ever heard of the Social Contract?

It's the idea that government is formed with the consent of the governed, that we agree to some specific restraints on individual behavior to foster social order for all. One example might be: You have oranges. I like oranges. I could hit you and steal your oranges. But under the Social Contract, I have implicitly agreed not to behave that way. After all, I don't want anybody doing that to me! So I can try to buy or bribe or beg them from you. But you need to be a willing participant in the transaction. And -voila!- we have Commerce. The whole idea is that we have mutual agreements, mutual expectations of fairness. Reciprocity.


- - - - - -
Please check out this website:

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/

for Bill Whittle's May 21, 2007 essay "You are not alone (Part 1)" under the heading "The Prisoner's Dilemma". Read about this game theory, and the definitions of game strategies called "Screw the Other Guy" and "Tit for Tat". Look a little farther down in the article, where it says

"If you think about it, all of our laws –and indeed, the very idea of respect for and equality under the law– are written to protect Tit-for-Tat, because Tit-for-Tat produces the best results. You may sell your product at a profit, but if you lie about what it does we will call that fraud and you will go to jail (because successful societies start nice but retaliate against those that decide to Screw the Other Guy). The punishment of fraud is what gives us confidence in the claims made by other products. Retaliating against Screw the Other Guy is not mean-spiritedness or a lust for revenge. It is essential to protect the confidence needed to stay focused on long-term wins. And that’s how, in theory, you build a cooperative society.

You retaliate against those that take advantage of the common trust. In other words, you punish the cheaters.

If you do not punish the cheaters, you have an “always cooperate” society that produces, consistently and rapidly, the worst possible outcome because it encourages –it selects– competing nasty strategies, by providing them with what I can only describe as a food source. Without retaliation against cheaters, cheaters thrive because that becomes the smartest strategy. There’s nothing “kind” about non-retaliation, nothing noble or good. Non-retaliation is suicide. Plain and simple.

...

When a tipping point is reached –when enough people are allowed to cheat– the system swings to a different stability mode (the default mode) and Screw the Other Guy becomes the only rational choice."
- - - - - -

Shared expectations and playing by the rules form a civil society.

Illegal aliens are not playing by the rules. Giving illegals a "cut in line" ahead of LEGAL immigrants, some of whom have been waiting -really!- YEARS for their documents to be processed, is not playing fair. Giving illegal border-crashers the benefits of legality merely because there are 12 million of them and the government doesn't want to bother trying to repatriate them is not playing fair. If we allow this, we allow the social contract to be broken. If we reward illegals, we will be inviting ever more of them to barge into our country, waiting for the next round of amnesty -- and we've established a pattern now, another amnesty WILL come. If we have laws and we don't bother enforcing them, what are they for? One of the PURPOSES of government is to set and protect its borders. Borders define the area within which (1) our laws apply, (2) our obedience to our laws is obligated, (3) our privileges, rights, and benefits are guaranteed, and (4) our duties and responsibilities as citizens must be fulfilled.

We keep saying that "we're a nation of laws"; I don't know why that should suddenly stop because Big Business wants Cheap Labor, and our President and Congressmen want to play along.

Rocky JOne
There must be a full moon tonight. What in the hell does Iraq has to do with the invasion of our southern border? Are you really a liberal or are you just screwing with us?

You and jeffrob (all three of you) apparently have no respect for the constitution/law of this courty and thus you are rightly ridiculed here.

Your idiotic ramblings have no affect on conservatives, so give it up.


Hey Waldstein! Stuff it!

You're a waste! Go back to KOZ or Huff n' Puff where your mentality might be appreciated.








It Is a Matter of Law, Civil and Moral.
It is wrong to deny citizenship to immigrants. Our country is made up of immigrants.

I think that it's wrong to make a legal immigrant to wait 7-10 years for citizenship, one year is more than enough.

But, let's face it folks, you can't bare the economic impact of this many illegals.

And to make them all illegal in one swipe isn't solving the problem.

It's not a matter of bigotry, or heartlessness.

I'm paying outrageous insurance premiums, high property taxes to support schools and medical care for indigents.

The facts are that the majority of illegal Mexicans are NOT contributing to the system a fraction of what they are taking out.

The system needs to be fixed right.

Those opposing the immigration bill are not opposing immigration. They are opposing the way it is being handled.

We must stop the flow. We must limit the number per year. We must prosecute businesses that profit from illegals.

We diffinately need to get a grip on entitlements, whether they are illegals, minorities, anybody who is able bodied getting a pay check without working.

There's something blowing in the wind over this bill that just not clear yet.

Some are saying that it's the big merger with Mexico and Canada, could be!

This bill in it's present state does not address any of the important issues that I brought up.

We got beat bad a Pearl Harbor To
Got our butt kicked at Pear Horbor but we won the war. We will win over Bush and his pimps if we keep on fighting.

Well, there you have it.
A majority of Senators just told the majority of American people to go stuff it. Obviously they are dancing to a different drummer. We are out of step with our rulers. That is the message they just sent us.


They are telling us that in no uncertain terms. I guess there is nothing left to be said. Thousands of phone calls from America's citizens had no effect on the Senators. Where do they get the guts to do this?


I have been on the phone every day calling them. I called several of them twice. I feel like an idiot. Now we are hearing the same refrain from Numbers USA and Grass Fire, who labored to keep voters motivated and on the phones.


Now I guess we start again. I really don't believe it will make a difference. Yes, I will continue to call. I just don't think it will matter.


Sam; Unlike you and your other limited

friends, most Conservatives tend to stay ON TOPIC!

Of course, you probably don't know what that means, but there is no reason to discuss Fred Thompson on this thread because he' not a Senator, and he hasn't yet formally announced his candidacy.

Understand? Probably not, but I tried. LOL






Anna writes: Sen McCaskill
Traitors
Who had the cojones today? A female Democrat! A Democrat had more balls than 16 Republicans. Pathetic.

Anna, that's pretty funny. I wrote earlier to our freshman Senator Webb, who also campaigned against Amnesty and voted for clouture today. I shamed him and told him that his fellow freshman lady Senator stood firm and had more cojones than he did. Big, scary former Marine that he is caved to his buddy Harry R.
GMTA

We should all email Senator McCaskill and thank her for her courage!


keep calling folks!
This was just a procedural vote today-- some who voted for cloture today did so for cover-- they will switch and vote correctly on Thursday. Sen. Claire McCaskill, who opposes scamnesty, said that our calls, e-mails and faxes are REALLY rattling their cages in the Senate, and urged that Americans keep barraging her peers.

Here is the official Senate contact site:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

And here are talking points:

http://www.numbersusa.com/hottopic/2454talkingpts.html
http://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://minutemanhq.com/hq/amnesty_action.php

Here are free already-prepared faxes:

http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

***********************************************

The next 2 days are critical since they are trying to cram it thru by Thursday before there is more time to see how egregious the details are. It should be a dead giveaway that anything Presidente Jorge (all hat-- no cattle) and the leftist 'Crats like Teddy Homicide want together has GOT TO BE BAD for Middle America!

Folks, the proposed amendments alone are 350 pages, and almost nobody in the Senate has had time to read the bill itself-- written mostly by Teddy's immigration lawyers. They purposely skipped the normal committee process and public hearings with expert testimony because they knew that we would go crazy if we heard what they are REALLY up to!

Amazingly, Congress approved (and President Jorge signed into law) 850 miles of border fence only months ago, and this bill cuts that by more than half to 350 miles! It is UNCONSCIONABLE that on an issue this important to America's future that they would resort to this backroom cram job!

Contact your senators first, and then others... the sites above will show you who the malleable ones are to focus on. While the peoples' House might later stop this travesty legislation, we would be better served by killing it in the Senate now. It is better to do nothing than to do evil... we have existing laws that should first be enforced, but Presidente Jorge has willfully violated his oath of office to protect our borders, and secretly promised YOUR S.S. and welfare tothe Mexicans! Say it ain't so, Jorge!

May god bless america and save her from the Conspiracy Of Evil --> lawbreaking employers and their Chamber lobbies; ethnocentric latino groups bent on Reconquista; scandal-plagued Catholic church leaders seeking replacement contributors; self-serving pols seeking $ and future latino votes; the PC, anti-America, multicultural, big entitlement govt. ilk; open borders, one-world, cheap labor-milking wealthy elites.



foxfire 22
i guess you don't really understand citizenship. This is not given it is earned. perhaps your crowd thinks that immigrants should be given this automatically but obviously you don't understand there are steps involved. Rules that have been in place are not subject to your new interpretation. What you obviously don't understand or are incapable of understanding, that which is given is never appreciated. That which is earned is cherished. Making immigrants learn about our history and form of government as well as speaking english are bare minimums to be learned. But you wouild rather just give away our most precious gift, that of citizenship. Are you perhaps of of the illegals or just acting as one of the flacks.

majgross - I have read the bill
majgross writes:
Immigration Bill
There are a lot of people here who need to take a deep breath and read what actually happened today. A bill wasn't passed! Some of these people that voted in favor of bringing back debate may have done so for the right reasons. When you lose your mind and sound hysterical, you don't get attention, not the good kind anyway. Let's make our reps understand how we feel about amnesty. Let us also recognize that immigration reform is needed and that requires debate of some kind. And most important let's make sure our reps understand you can't do anything until you close the door!

________________________

Ditto majgross. I agree with you totally. Excelent post. People do need to vent though. It is maddening that they won't listen!

And I have read the bill actually. Keep reading and you will find the good things are very much outweighed by the bad, or even voided later on.

It's convuluted govie language meant to confuse and confound. The enforcement laws are already in existence and just not enforced. Some provision are less lenient than we have now.

Besides the provisional citizenship is not going away and as long as that is there the bill is a no winner.

Leftie liberal posters
Ok, so who is paying these fools that go from post to post trying to annoy everyone on a conservative site? Why do people feed the lefty loons?

I just skim past them for the most part because they are clearly far left liberals and not here to learn anything. Just to play the part of paid gnat.

Ignore them and they might go away and others can talk about their concerns. Or just vent. Venting is good sometimes.

wildwest
I'm not sure who you are addressing your comments to?

I'm am totally against amnesty. I believe that immigrants should abide by the laws.

I don't have a problem with learning the history, speaking English, etc.

I believe strongly in assimilation of immigrants.

All I did say is that I didn't think that an immigrant that come here the legal way should be caught in the bureaucracy.

There are immigrants that have come here legally that have been waiting 8-10 years for citizenship that speak better English than you probably.

I don't disagree that it is a priviledge.

For your information I do know something about immigration.

My father was an immigrant from Italy who fought in World War I against his own country.

He wasn't on welfare, and he contributed to make this country what you now enjoy.

Exclusive: The Truth About ‘La Raza’

by justbuildthefence

This op-ed was published a little over a year ago in Human Events by the late GA Rep. Charlie Norwood. It is very central to the Shamnesty proposals before us now. To me the obvious danger of empowering millions of illegal aliens that have no allegiance to America or it’s values, is the overwhelming issue here with this bill.

Exclusive: The Truth About ‘La Raza’
by Rep. Charlie Norwood
Posted: 04/07/2006

…….For law-abiding Americans without knowledge of the dark side of our current illegal immigration crisis, all this is unfathomable. For those who know the truth about the “La Raza” movement, these demonstrations were a prophecy fulfilled.

It is past time for all Americans to know what is at the root of this outrageous behavior, and the extent to which the nation is at risk because of “La Raza” — The Race.
Read the rest of this entry »



http://controlcongress.com/in-the-news/exclusive-the-truth-about-la-raza

OK, maybe we CAN forget the fence...
Make it a CANAL. With big ships. With really big propellers. Tell Mexico to get control of the Zeta-controlled territories, or WE WILL. And then start digging.

An argument for Ron Paul
I see that most of you are rightfully angered at our government’s betrayal of the people and the constitution. You don’t have to just sit there and take it. There is a presidential candidate who will properly enforce the border laws and will govern according to the constitution. He will work to preserve national sovereignty. To control spending, he will surely become the new king of the veto. He favors the elimination of the IRS and the income tax made possible by drastic reductions in the size of the federal government. We have a chance here for a real return to constitutional governance.

I know what you’re thinking. He’s against the Iraq war. Many of you support the war, and I respect that. I’ll just ask you to please visit his website and see for yourself what you’re giving up by withholding your support on account of the war. It may be a long time before we have this chance again.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

TIME OUT!!!!
Officials time out!!

I'm sure Ms. Carpenter gave us accurate information, but I don't think we have sufficient information and analysis to know what to think about this. This was a vote to reopen debate, not a vote to end debate and put it to a vote.

Last night I heard Sen. Bond interviewed. He stated he had added an amendment that stripped the whole "path to citizenship" part and essentially made it a bill about security. He stated he would vote against closure to kill the bill if his amendment isn't passed. Odds are his amendment won't be passed, and he will vote to kill the bill. I believe 11 amendments were proposed by both the repubs and dems. With the variety of amendments added by different voices, the bill will again fail a cloture vote and die.

Some of what is going on is political gamesmanship for future purposes. It is not likely this is going anywhere. That said, there sure is a lot to question and be disappointed about. Let's just wait until the end of the week before we decide who needs to be run out of Washington.

REID IS THE CLAY PIGEON!
Reid needs to be at the top of the list of Senators not to re-elect. The Republicans and the Dem.'s have to find someone that can knock him out of office. Reid is the number 1 most disgraceable politician in America. He makes Bush and Hillary look good.

RR

Rocker is an idiot.
Rocker how stupid can you be? Many of the illegal immigrants coming now want to blow you up! The Government sure isn't going to protect you with legislation that they are proposing. The immigration bill is not about immigration. It is about Bush and a number of members of Congress that have sold out to the North American Union (No Borders) groups. They are already stealing land for the highways in Texas by emanent domain. There is not going to any border protection until we get every member of Congress that supports the bill and the current administration out of office. This means people like McCain, Lott, Kennedy, Hillary, etc. all have to go.

RR

Will
I don't believe this is a problem for Paul. He is a strongly pro-life baptist. He believes, however, that social issues should be, as required in the constitution, handled by the states. This would give religious people more freedom to operate within their state governments to legislate on morality. Social conservatives should agree with this.

Pelosi
Pelosi claims she will not bring the bill up unless there at least 60 Rep votes for the Senate bill. So far there are only 24 House Reps supporting the bill.

This bill has been used by Harry to divide the Rep Party. The Dems are not dumber than the Reps. They will not walk the plank in the House unless they get enough cover from the Reps.

Once the Rep party is divided the Dems can wait (and not pay a price) and then try to get a Dem bill in 2008.

I blame Bush and Kyl/McCain for destroying the Party. Cheney may be better than Bush at this point.

firefox22
as a first generation american I was told by my family the priviledge of being an american. Both my parents were so thrilled to get here that my brothers and I were raised to value america. My parents both had to learn english and having mastered that, took classes and became citizens. We were told the value of education, hard work and what my parents believed were expected of citizens. That is why when I remember the stories of the hard work my parents put into becoming citizens I feel they are with me every time I enter the voting booth. That is why I don't like to hear that anything that is so valuble as being a citizen is to be given away lightly. My story is not unique and is so common that it has been accomplished millions of times but that makes it all the more valuable and I think that any legal immigrant so also take all the steps necessary to earn citizenship. Call me nativist but that's how I was raised. Unfortunately too many in the senatre don't understand this simple notion

Iraq
Bush will have to start pulling troups but Iraq will not go away as an issue. It may blow up even bigger as power shifts to Iran and Iraq implodes.

You will see Turkey, Jordan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the small states start to posture to the power shift. This is going to be a bigger mess than it is now.

Cheney
I have never been a big Cheney fan. That gives you an understanding of what I think of Bush right now.

Keep Working
I live in Missouri, and I am very proud of Senator Claire McCaskill, I wrote her another thank you letter today. Make no bones about it, she is a socialist and I voted for Talent, but she did good today.

In fact I made it a point to write all the Senators that voted this down and told them that they have the support of the people, well most of us anyway. We can win, if not in the Senate than in the House. The GOP there is getting their act together and we may be able to sway many of the blue dog Democrats.

Never give up, if we do the elistist in DC win. We need to purge the Republican party of its vial traitors like Graham and McCain. Keep track of them and go to the primaries.

wildwest
I'm sure that you aware that we are talking about a totally different class of immigrant today.

The problem with immigration today is that the majority of immigrants are not coming from Europe to start a new life.

Immigrants that come here to make America their home and respect our culture, history, and language, I don't have a problem with.

People that come here to live off the fat of the land while resisting assimilation bother me.

I may not have expressed myself well in my post.
But, I am a native born American who has served this country, my brothers and sons have served this country. We appreciate very much what this country has given to us.

I and my family have never taken a dime that we did not earn.

It bothers me to see people who come here just for economic benifit.

They prefer to be in there native country, but they can't make a living there.

I have a problem with paying taxes to provide services to impoverished individuals, especially law breakers, while they speak ill of us, send American dollars back home. This money is spent in a country that imprisons illegals from other countries.

Mexico has no tollerance for what we are expected to welcome.

I agree 100% that those who come to America should love it or leave it, support our culture or go back were you feel more comfortable.

That does not mean that you can not appreciate and respect your own herritage. It does mean that you don't have a right to change America to suit yourself.

My dad came here in the early 1900's. He learned all of the things you addressed.

He did not speak Italian unless it was to someone who could not speak English.

I can't speak Italian because it was never taught to me by my father.

Now, today that would be considered child abuse.

My son had to take Spanish and Italian in college.

Well, we really don't have much to disagree about, at least from my point of view.




Goos grief, Roberto
Your constant proclamation of yourself as an "anchor baby" is living proof of why we need to seal the borders, get a proper interpretation of the 14th Amendment, and deport all the illegal aliens.

I shudder to think of another 12-20 million people like YOU.

It's all a charade
The elitist are trying to fool all us ignorant folks into thinking we have no power.

Next, they are going to try to shut down the free press. They can do so only if we all give up.

hosekuervo
Might as well give it to the Demacrats anyway.

If this bill passes as presented we're going to be bankrupt for years to come.

Tell me what's wrong with getting done right.

No one on this site is against immigration. reform.

Reaching across the aisle sure got us far with the Dems the last time we tried it, didn't it.

I've supported Bush through it all, but I'm sorry , he's got this one wrong.

Wait a sec!
Does Colorado has a Jeff Bingaman also as a Senator or is this lady's facts wrong. I live in New Mexico and Jeff Bingaman is our Senator...Or should I say he wont stay that way for long. Does anyone know where to direct me to see if our state has a recall against a Senator. I tried to google information on that but could not come up with anything.

Chaotic
Go here and you will see why they are trying to help the Nazi. Bush's grandfather was a Nazi sympathiser and its been proven. The report of this that you will see at this link shows papers and reports from the Library of Congress that prove his Grandfather was a Nazi sympathiser and along with others tried to stage a coop in the 40's to make this country into a Nazi like state. Also keep in mind that Bush is a member of the Skull and Bones which is a Nazi sympathiser group and supporter of the Illumanati and Bohemia Grove. Here is the link to truth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdOuoBACZL0

Joe
I applaud your writings and your wanting to be President. If you have a good moral stance and are sincere I could see me voting for you. But you forgot one thing. No President, since Bohemia Grove started has ever been elected if they are not members of Bohemia Grove and that means being in the Illumanati also. If you can overcome that loop hole I'll gladly vote for you. Go to YouTube and watch the Alex Jones Documentary named Inside Bohemia Grove. He shows every President that was ever a member of Bohemia Grove that took part in their pagen rites, not to mention the gay porno stars that are saying they go there for the guys. This is rotten but if you can overcome not being a member of these groups and still have a chance for Pres..Im with ya buddy.

China shuts 180 food plants


Do you trust China to fix this problem?

USATODAY-BEIJING (AP) — China has closed 180 food factories after inspectors found industrial chemicals being used in products from candy to seafood, state media said Wednesday.

The closures came amid a nationwide crackdown on shoddy and dangerous products launched in December that also uncovered use of recycled or expired food, the China Daily said.

Formaldehyde, illegal dyes, and industrial wax were found being used to make candy, pickles, crackers and seafood, it said, citing Han Yi, an official with the General Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine, which is responsible for food safety.

“These are not isolated cases,” Han, director of the administration’s quality control and inspection department, was quoted as saying.

Han’s admission was significant because the administration has said in the past that safety violations were the work of a few rogue operators, a claim which is likely part of a strategy to protect China’s billions of dollars (euros) of food exports.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/china-shuts-180-food-plants



Evryone postine here go read
This bill is scamnesty and President Jorje just screwed up and called it just that. Read this article its short. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/260607_b_Amnesty.htm

Factual errors in the article
Coburn and Enzi voted against cloture yesterday, and Ted Stevens is from Alaska, not Alabama.

Coburn would never cast a vote in favor of this travesty of a bill.

PRO-AMNESTY IMBECILES
BLIND, DEAF, AND CANNOT SMELL.
YOUR CHILDREN WILL ROT IN the 3RD WORLD CACA right here.

GOD, GIVE THEM HEALTH, BECAUSE IT IS TOO LATE FOR WISDOM....

demythologizing ILLEGAL aliens
Have you noticed that when the advocates and apologists for ILLEGALS state their cases that they seem vacuous, lame and facile on the surface? Consider:

DISINGENUOUS FALSE PREMISES AND SCARE TACTICS:

The "undocumented" are just doing jobs that Americans won't do that we must have done... they give more than they take; they are a net positive... they pay into S.S. funds they will not get back... they have lesser rates of crime than legal Americans... they simply want to share in the blessings of America just like the rest of us, which they have every right to do... resentment against them is racist/xenophobic-- they are really no different from prior waves of immigrants who were also resented, but who assimilated and made America great... they want to assimilate and learn English... the proposed legislation is not really amnesty... Americans generally believe in a path to citizenship for those already here... we cannot simply round up and deport 12-20 million... the only crime they have committed is akin to jaywalking.

DEMYTHOLOGIZING REALITIES & INCONVENIENT TRUTHS:

1) ILLEGALS ARE INDEED taking many jobs that Americans will gladly do, driving down wages, and permeating myriad concomitant social pathology problems (crimes, barrio blight, drugs, gangs, illegitimacies, dropouts, balkanization, diseases) like a terminal cancer, inexorably eventually destroying the host body.

2) ILLEGAL aliens do NOT contribute more than they take, because the government services alone used by the uneducated indigent GREATLY EXCEED any minimal taxes paid (mostly sales taxes, etc.). Heritage calculates that each household headed by the undereducated indigent (legal OR ILLEGAL) will drain over $1 million in the course of a lifetime:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

3) Presidente Jorge has already committed to send already unfunded and threatened S.S. funds south to Mexico, and ILLEGALS would become eligible much sooner than American taxpayers... Amigo Jorge promised THEM while visiting in Mexico recently that he would work for THEM on this Scamnesty legislation! That is TREASON-- PURE AND SIMPLE!

4) Latino rates of crime and other inimical social pathologies are, sadly, pandemically troublesome (the reasons are irrelevant to this discussion really-- facts are stubborn things), and worse among the poorer ones like most coming in ILLEGALLY (more than half have only a 7th grade education, assuring the snowballing of the associated social problems):

http://www.amren.com/Reports/Hispanics/HispanicsReport.htm
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=M2Q5ZWZiOTU2OTY1YWEyZDFiYTliNTRmMzk0ODIwMmE
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/index.html

5) They are MOST ESPECIALLY NOT "just like prior waves of immgrants" in several ways... there are far more at once, there is no ocean separating them from the old cultures, they are clinging to same with no desire to assimilate, and the PC/multicultural ilk is aiding and abetting their ethnocentricity with bilingualism. Furthermore, America is a VASTLY different nation socio-economically than it was when many LEGAL immigrants came here historically-- we can benefit on balance today ONLY FROM EDUCATED, SKILLED IMMIGRANTS, which is NOT the norm among the great unwashed running across the border.

6) The pending Scamnesty is PRECISELY that, and the all-in implications are HORRENDOUS fiscally and socio-economically:

http://www.firesociety.com/article/12134/

7) Americans are rightfully indignant about the nonfeasance of the government, which has allowed the ILLEGAL invasion to become an acute infestation. It is NOT that we are afraid of diversity as Presidente Jorge lamely and disingenuously opined-- we already are the most diverse nation on earth! Ad hominem braying about "racism" is the calumny of artful scoundrels with no positive arguments for their pro-ILLEGAL apologia. When polled HONESTLY, Americans rightfully have profound concerns about unbridled immigration, especially ILLEGAL invaders... per Rasmussen, "(72%) OF VOTERS say that it is VERY IMPORTANT for the government to improve its enforcement of the borders and REDUCE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION":

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/just_26_favor_senate_immigration_plan
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back906.html
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20530
http://www.grasstopsusa.com/

8) The artful ploy that "we cannot deport 12 million" is a red herring false argument-- TRUE enforcement of EXISTING LAWS would result in attritive repatriation at THEIR expense-- the same way they got here! We need only the political will to reflect the desires of over 70% of Middle America. Presidente Jorge is guilty of blatant nonfeasance by ignoring his oath of office to protect the borders-- and at a time when terrorists threaten!

9) The facile, remote "elitist" PC theories of bilingualism and multiculturalism are doomed to failure. Even in countries with essentially the same ethnicity and culture, bilingualism alone creates crises (see Quebec). Multiculturalism is an abysmal failure everywhere. There can be no "melting pot" with these plagues.

10) As to scurrilous Geraldo-ilk suggestions that "these good people" are committing minor crimes akin to jaywalking in crossing the border, this is but the first of what become serial patterns of lawbreaking including tax dodging, identity fraud, welfare cheating, etc., ad nauseam. Even eunuch shill Chertoff admits that at least 2 million are felonious criminals! [Since he admits to 11 million ILLEGALS being here, he is suggesting that fully 18% are guilty of felonies!] To suggest that they are less prone to serious crimes (per Geraldo) is simply a bold faced lie!

http://www.amren.com/Reports/Hispanics/HispanicsReport.htm
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/index.html

CALL YOUR SENATORS TODAY! TELL THEM TO JUST SAY NO TO SCAMNESTY! MAKE ENGLISH THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE-- LEARN OR RETURN! ENFORCE EXISTING LAWS AND THEY WILL STOP INVADING AND REPATRIATE ATTRITIVELY. RADIATE THE CANCER BEFORE IT CAN DESTROY THE WHOLE BODY POLITIC BY MORPHING AMERICA INTO A THIRD WORLD WELFARE STATE! ILLEGAL MEANS ILLEGAL--PERIOD!

who supports scamnesty and why?
Many national pols, especially those with Oval Office pipe dreams, have embraced ILLEGALS for $ and self-aggrandizement. The RINOS (Presidente Jorge, Sen. Juan McQuisling, Amigo Linseed Grahamos, Sam BROWNback, Huevos Hagel, and Sanctuary City Rudy Julitaco) are simply willing to sell out Middle America to appease miscreant employers (who buy them) and the Reconquista ilk because they foolishly fathom that they can snag some of those votes.

The thing they choose to miss is that 3rd generation middle class latinos who speak English are VERY different from the ILLEGAL invaders, who will easily break 99:1 voting for big entitlement government as soon as the left (Taco Teddy Homicide, Shrillary, et al)and myopic RINOS can snooker us into Scamnesty. If they make citizens of the 20 million ILLEGALS, they will all too soon devolve (via chain migration and often illegitimate birth rates) into 100 million net new poor, undereducated, culturally disparate, ethnocentric, welfare-seeking big entitlement government voters. America will ineluctably slouch irretrievably toward Gomorrah.

Call your senators TODAY and tell them--
to just say no to Scamnesty...
make English the official language...
no welfare or path to citizenship for ILLEGALs... enforce EXISTING laws and they will repatriate attritively and get in line.

You can reach your senators at their OFFICIAL sites right here:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

And find talking points and info here:

http://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://www.numbersusa.com/hottopic/senateaction0507.html
http://www.numbersusa.com/hottopic/2454talkingpts.html
http://www.grasstopsusa.com/
http://vdare.com/misc/070607_economist.htm
http://www.upi.com/Zogby/UPI_Polls/2007/06/21/analysis_majority_oppose_immigration_bill/2755/
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/just_26_favor_senate_immigration_plan

Or send already-prepared free faxes here:

http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

self deport

If deportation is too 'hard' for our government, on the illegal aliens as well as on employers, may I suggest:

Allow all illegals to remain in the USA

However, tell them and stick to the following:

1. No possibility ever to become legal unless you leave and apply like all other potential immigrants.
2. No services what ever, except for emergency medical. No welfare, food stamps, instate tuition and all the other giveaways.
3. No chain migration. No member of your family can come here. If you miss them, go home. It was your decision to leave them in the first place.
4. No anchor babies. Kids, born of illegal aliens are illegal also.
5. If you get into legal trouble of any kind, from jaywalking to murder and drugs, you will be deported.

Very simple, nothing comprehensive and hidden about it. Easy to understand.
It should self deport a vast number and help to keep those who want to stay badly enough to live on the straight and narrow..

Ms Carpenter
Check your facts!! My Senator Coburn (R OK) voted NO. He didn't vote for cloture!!

Knowledgeable citizens oppose this bill
June 06, 2007

While Majority Unsure About Immigration Bill, Those with Opinion Are Strongly Opposed

by Frank Newport – Gallup News Service

“Those Americans who are following the (immigration bill) debate closely are highly likely to be opponents of the bill. Among those who know enough to have an opinion, the bill is opposed by almost a 3 to 1 margin. Among those who say they are following the news about the bill very closely, opposition outweighs support by almost a 4 to 1 margin. “

Seems to me that if you learn what's in the immigration/amnesty bill, compare it to our government's impotent track record of the past (present law unenforced by those in charge and now telling us that something new needs to be done) you cannot do anything but oppose this current catastrophe-awaiting-to-happen.

THEY DO WHAT MOST AMERICANS DON'T
FBI CRIME STATISTICS: 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.

86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.

75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.

24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally

40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally

48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally

29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually

53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.

71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or “transport coyotes".

47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.

63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens

66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.

BIRTH STATISTICS 380,000 plus “anchor babies” were born in the U.S. in 2005 to illegal alien parents, making 380,000 babies automatically U.S.citizens.

97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayers.

from a conservative newspaper
at ground zero of the immigration issue.

San Diego







UNION-TRIBUNE EDITORIAL
Reason for hope

Status quo on immigration is not an option

June 27, 2007

So far, so good. The bipartisan immigration bill inched forward yesterday when a majority of senators voted to revive the legislation and begin debating amendments. It is expected that, by tomorrow, another vote will be held – this one to close the debate entirely and put the measure to a vote. As it stands, the outcome is too close to call. Yet supporters have reason to be optimistic.

But what if? What if the Senate immigration bill, once amended, doesn't get the votes it needs and immigration reform goes down in flames?

Some conservatives would rejoice. That's an interesting reaction, given that these are the same folks who, not long ago, demanded that Congress address an illegal immigration “crisis.” We simply would be back where we started. And yet critics are doing their best to bring about just that outcome – without proposing a workable alternative.

Conservative radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh warned his listeners that “this bill is worse than doing nothing.” Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., a leading critic, has said he and his colleagues are “working hard to make sure we get a good bill or none.”

If this bill fails, the message would be: Senators can still approve pay raises and pass out pork, but on the hard issues, many of them would rather do nothing than do something controversial. It makes you glad this bunch isn't wrestling with women's suffrage or slavery or Social Security.

Even so, if immigration reform dies because of a fear of amnesty, well then, there would still be amnesty. Illegal immigrants would still go to work, and employers would still hire them. And the extremes on the right and the left who helped torpedo this bill would still gripe about how the system is broken and how there is a crisis and how Congress has to do something about it. And, meanwhile, in Washington, it would be clearer than ever that lawmakers are never going to do anything about it.

The critics have it wrong. They think it's better to do nothing, but doing nothing should not be an option.

One of the few bright spots in this debate is President Bush, who has demonstrated real leadership. On Saturday, during his weekly radio address, Bush urged lawmakers to “summon the courage” to support the bill and stated plainly that “the status quo is unacceptable.” Yesterday, Bush said immigration reform presented a “historic opportunity for Congress to act, for Congress to replace a system that is not working with one that we believe will work a lot better.”

Bush also praised immigrants and “a country where people come with dreams and aspirations and through hard work can realize those dreams and aspirations.” As a result, he said, “the country is better off. Our soul is constantly renewed. Our spirit is invigorated when people come here and realize the blessings of America.”

The president gets it. Let's hope enough members of Congress do, as well.




I am mad and disappointed
in one of my Senators today. Sam Brownback, who is also running for the Republican Nomination for President, voted for cloture yesterday.

The last time this bill was up for a vote Brownback didn't vote, then last week President Bush came to Wichita Kansas for a campaign fundraiser. I believe that was a "payoff" by Bush to get Brownbacks vote for this bill.

On his Campaign site http://www.brownback.com/s/Home/tabid/127/Default.aspx he (or his campaign) claims the vote yesterday was only to continue debate, then tries to say he is against amnesty, but ends with the fact that he is withholding support of this bill till after the debate & amendment process. Sounds like a typical politician who is hedging his bets to me. Is it any wonder why he is not even on the radar as a potential nominee?

What Brownback apparently doesn't get is that this bill is so bad that debating and amending it will not help, nor will it get much more support from the citizens of this country. The time to debate and amend is a wasted effort given how bad it is, so in the end it would be better to kill this bill and those that truly oppose amnesty should put together a new one that does not include amnesty and does include all the authorizations and funding needed to close and secure the border.

At least Pat Roberts (my other Senator) understands and voted against this bad bill.

Harry's Little Secrets
So, Harry has one amendment to the US Senate/President "Right or wrong, we did something" bill. And that amendment carries 25 or 26 amendments that Tedd.. er, Harry, hand picked for inclusion in the bill. I hear that he hasn't allowed the release of any details of his amendments and we probably won't learn anything about them until they being debated on the floor. That is, if they are going procede with that formality.

Durty Harry and his little secrets.

It seems to me that it was him and his partners in crime that were whining about the Bush administration keeping secrets over the last couple of years.

I guess it's only bad to keep secrets when it's conservatives or Republicans who are doing it.

conservative my eye
The fact that the San Diego Trib is carrying the president's water does not make this a good bill, or even a desirable option. It is a 4.4 billion dollar bribe to shut up the American citizens who are critical of Bush's beloved SPP.

There is nothing "conservative" about Title IV sec. 413. It is adopting the country of Mexico right into our welfare/health care "systems" under the guise of economic growth. It turns a blind eye to the fact that Vicente Fox has stabbed us repeatedly in the back and given his sanction to anyone willing and able to circumvent legal channels to get into America. It supports his corruption and shields his own citizens from its repercussions.

I don't know if Pres. Bush is just blinded by his own altruism, or has not read the bill for himself, or actually IS in the pockets of the multinational corporations as the libs ahve been telling us for years. But he's DEAD WRONG on this.


Open the can of worms!
__For any immigration bill to work properly it needs to be done in conjunction with reformation in the immigration department.Past legislation did not work,as there was nothing done to enable its restriction with the restrictor.The immigration department runs completely seperate from government input.While congress may pass legislation to quell the public outcry,it greatly compounds the outcry from within a bureaucracy taking every step needed.A staff loaded to the gills with papers to be processed, thousands of phonecalls from sponsers,and immigrants applying legally.Hundreds of applicants at immigration offices daily.Some with paid attorney's,others soley,entering to file mountains of paperwork,and pay processing fees.Then sit,and wait,and wait,and wait.Thousands of dollars,and hours later,approval or denial,arrives.That unsecure Mexican boarder becomes awful tempting for those looking for a quick fix.Just like the quick fix liberals flashing their tempting legislation for their quick fix base.For any immigration bill to work this is where we need to focus our attention.Work to fix the reason instead of theoretic speculation destined for failure.

G. Beck discusses the very real NA Union
this morning. No, it is not a conspiracy theory. It is reality. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

http://www.glennbeck.com/news/06272007a.shtml

Read section 413 of the immigration bill:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1639

Bush's Base
Many here are angry because Bush is giving the one-finger salute to you, flipping-off his base. Republicans and conservatives mistakenly believe that they who voted for Bush (most of them fools who did it twice) are Bush's base. Well, ladies and gentlemen, you of the rank-and-file out there, YOU are NOT Bush's base -- YOU are his "useful idiots!"

In October of 2000, Bush defined his base thusly: "Bush gazed around the diamond-studded $800-a-plate crowd and commented on the wealth on display. 'This is an impressive crowd - the haves and the have-mores,' quipped the GOP standard-bearer. 'Some people call you the elites; I call you my base.'"

Bush is very faithful to his acknowledged base, and Bush's base DEMANDS cheap, pliant, foreign slave labor to work in their businesses, to slave in their homes, to watch their kids, tend their golf courses, serve their meals at posh restaurants and change their sheets at the hotels where they stay and play. And, Bush's base want to externalize the costs for the care and feeding of their cheap, slave labor to YOU and to YOUR children.

Bush isn't "sticking it to his base" -- he is sticking it to you -- his "useful idiots" -- and since he doesn't need YOU anymore (you can easily be replaced by a Mexican since he no longer needs your vote) he is sticking it to you "BIG TIME!"

Long before you cast your vote for Bush that fateful November in 2000, he told you exactly what he planned to do. You simply failed to listen when he said that he was going to merge the US with Mexico, do regime change in Iraq, and of course, give his base a gigantic tax cut so they wouldn't be forced to pay their fair share of the costs required to feed and care for their imported slave labor force.

So, all you "useful idiots" out there in the blogosphere who feel that you are venting your righteous indignation at Bush's betrayal of you and this Republic, grow up! You are getting exactly what you were promised and exactly what YOU voted for when you voted for Bush! Needless to say, I did NOT vote for Bush. I got $crewed once by his daddy and only an idiot repeats the same mistake expecting a different result.


robert(the little r is so much more YOU)
this from you last night...
"Rocky JOne writes: Tuesday, June, 26, 2007 7:26
Let us know...
Ex-tex writes: Tuesday, June, 26, 2007 6 ...
how that works out there big guy!
Robert "

**I'm guessin that you're askin about my gameplan which comprised throwin up, a good cry, and then some spiteful revengeful acts against the betrayers. Actually, robert(with a small r)-
that plan has always served me well.

Ever since I was a little girl!
(I'm still a pretty small gal even now.- not a big GUY at all- better luck next insult!)
Ex-tex

religiouslib corrections
The Union Tribune is about the most liberal newspaper in southern California. I read it daily because it's the only one available in San Diego that covers the city.

As to your polling data, this is yet another laugh at the premise that CNN or its readers represent anything in America. If anything I find it funny that people like you keep supporting lying pollsters that refuse to insert or define immigration by the instances of legal and illegal immigration.

More crimes the illegals do that Americans just won't:

Illegal alien & convicted sex offender arrested after crossing the border - again.
http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2006/01/112734.shtml

http://judiciary.house.gov/media/pdfs/gonzalez030206.pdf#search=%22%22Sheriff%20Sigifredo%20Gonzalez%22%22
On 01/18/2006 EPT SIU interviewed a detained MS13 member who claimed to have knowledge of MS13 formulating plans to use firearms and confront Border Patrol Agents in order to create a distraction so that other MS-13 members can be smuggled in the United States. MS13 member (who claims to have worked smuggling cocaine for Gulf Cartel) claims to have knowledge that the plan is to start amassing members of MS-13 along the U.S./Mexico border at cities such as Nuevo Laredo, Acuna, Ojinaga, and Juarez. After enough members have been pre-positioned along the border, a coordinated attack using firearms was to commence against all law enforcement, to include Border Patrol. The plan is to kill as many law enforcement, to include create a diversion, and affect the entry of multiple MS-13 members. MS-13's ultimate goal is to cause significant chaos and to begin gaining control of areas, cities and regions within the U.S.

Chinese trafficking
http://usinfo.state.gov/eap/Archive_Index/Chinese_Organized_Crime_and_Illegal_Alien_Trafficking_Humans_as_a_Commodity.html

Here's an assessment of all the GANG MEMBER activities. The very same gang members that this bill will give COMPLETE AMNESTY for any past crimes whatsoever.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/BJA/what/2005_threat_assesment.pdf

Profiling Sex Trafficking: Illegal Immigrants At Risk
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#SexTrafficking

How trafficking scams work
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kralis/060731

Feds fail to act on soaring reports of foreign-born in jail (all sorts of illegal aliens NOT being deported AFTER felony criminal jail time)
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5590948,00.html

Black leaders continue to shame the memory of police officer Rodney Johnson
http://patterico.com/2007/06/12/deport-the-criminals-first-part-ten-of-an-ongoing-series-the-killing-of-officer-rodney-johnson/

There's plenty more.

correction
Vicente Fox is gone, now, I know, I know. Calderon is the new guy, winning by the slimmest of margins over the socialist. He still has lots of constituents who expect him to grease the slide for them into the US, and a MAJOR problem getting control of his gang-banger drug traffickers. I would absolutely support congressional action to aid them in THAT particular effort, as it goes directly toward our own border security. But this "comprehensive" welfare/sort-of-fence/amnesty mess has got to go. Separate bills, no 300-page amendments, and actual debate.

Tascha Tchin
PURE NONSENSE!!!!

fivo
first calling the san diego union tribune liberal is laughable. they have supported every republican candidate in every election for years. look it up.


as far as the polling once again you did not really read the polling.
i made no comment but let it speak for itself.
it was a compilation of all the polls taken nationwide not just cnn.

it actally was the gallup poll.

Fiveo
Just thought I would thank you for the work you put into that 4:14 post. Good job.

Union Tribune online
Yes look at all the conservative articles they have online! Oh my!

Senate Democrats in uphill battle against the gun lobby
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20070627-1417-congress-guncontrol.html

Immigration plan upends preferences
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20070606-9999-1n6legal.html

Judges consider naming panel to cap California prison population
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CA_CALIFORNIA_PRISONS_CAOL-?SITE=CADIU&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Tribes, Assembly Democrats strike a deal
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070627/news_1n27casinos.html

Tragedy for Palestinians
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070624/news_lz1e24zogby.html
(I particularly liked this UT article where Zogby blames Israel for the takeover of Palestine by Hamas - real conservatives there!)

Free 'Scooter' Libby
The case gets weirder by the day
By Christopher Hitchens
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070624/news_lz1e23hitchen.html
At first you might think this conservative but clearly the credits mention that this is the Christopher Hitchens. You know:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html

Not very conservative or traditionally Republican there, is he?



Amen. JeffRob
JeffRob:
"First good Bush has done since 9/12. This is the first time I'm even remotely proud of this President,.....To 98% of TH posters on this subject:
Your firm knowledge that an open immigration policy will somehow destroy our nation is built on nothing more than lies and fear-mongering, laid on you by nameless talk-radio hosts and rogue preachers who have in turn been buying in to this Administration's constant fear-mongering and hate-baiting for all things un-WASP, fueled by the repetitive mention of anger-inducing images and stories of 9/11. It's transparent, it's tired, it's unhealthy, and it's unAmerican.

Immigrants are the strength behind this superpower, always have been, always will be."

Amen, JeffRob!!

Our current system of immigration is designed to serve people coming from across the seas on boats. It has NO RELATIONSHIP WHATSOEVER to today's reality of poor people living on our borders who are more than willing to do many jobs that American Citizens (who are enjoying a HISTORICALLY LOW unemployment rate) can't be bothered to perform and the millions of employers who need people to do those jobs. We NEED a LEGAL GUEST WORKER PROGRAM, and that's ALL we need.

When people ignore STUPID laws, for example the way millions of Americans ignored and defied prohibition, that's just American common sense. Between 10-20 million of our American Citizen neighbors are doing just that right now, by employing hardworking undocumented workers to do jobs that Americans won't fill. Except in those rare occaisions when zealot ideologues like you TH posters force them to do otherwise, law enforcement officials treat these employers and their workers the same way they treat people who drive ten miles over the speed limit on highways. They IGNORE them, they recognize that the employers have no legal recourse other than going out of business.

Stop trying to build a stupid, useless, FENCE! You can go ID-crazy on a GuestWorker program, with documents from country of origin, Photo ID, and even fingerprints, and the vast bulk of the people now sneaking across our borders will STILL line up to get them, and they'll even pay a fee that's small compared to what the Coyotes extort. Make it possible for current illegals to get there ID documents together and become guest workers, and they WILL, as legal Guest Workers begin to get preferentially hired by employers who now have a legal alternative.

And why SHOULDN'T we give people like this a chance to become citizens? They're hardy, they're risk-takers, they care about their families, the vast majority of them are law-abiding, and they'll fuel our economy like every other wave of immigrants.

Like JeffRob says, most of the hysteria against them is just hate and fear.

I hope that a just God gives you all Bilingual grandchildren and/or greatgrandchildren, all of whom have nice tans.


A side benefit for those who hate

Create a Legal guest worker program, and many of the people who now sneak into this country and permanently live in the shadows will instead commute! They'll go home at the end of the day, or week!

Bullsh-- From heritage.org
lodestar:
"...2) ILLEGAL aliens do NOT contribute more than they take, because the government services alone used by the uneducated indigent GREATLY EXCEED any minimal taxes paid (mostly sales taxes, etc.). Heritage calculates that each household headed by the undereducated indigent (legal OR ILLEGAL) will drain over $1 million in the course of a lifetime:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm"

After starting out by admitting that they don't have a good handle on how many undocumented aliens there actually are, this study actually stoops to such hate-mongering dressed up as statistics as giving out an estimate of the number of households that will deliberately bring over all their relatives fro the express purpose of putting them all on welfare!

If the BIGOTS over at Heritage can pull that CRAP, then I'll cook up a similar study except the numbers I pull out of MY behind will include an estimate of the number of hardworking undocumented aliens who will become multibillionaires, greatly increasing our GNP and tax base!


reply to: "flaming" liberal
you are flaming to be sure... can you cite EVEN ONE of those "hardworking undocumented aliens who will become multibillionaires, greatly increasing our GNP and tax base!"... I didn't think so. More platitudinous pablum and sophistical tripe from a guano-dropping lib. But don't let those pesky facts get in your way when PC multicultural fantasy comes so facilely! Comprende espanol, perhaps?

Want reality on this, anyone? See Douglas MacKinnon's column for Thursday... oh, but he surely must be just another "racist xenophobe" like Lou Dobbs... interesting that they both have hispanic wives-- Lou's is even Mexican-American. Darn those stubborn facts!

Too bad LoLo, you're crazy!
LoLo = crazy in Hawaiian. And everything I wrote is completely factual. You can check it all out on the web if you aren't too LoLo.

so good, worth a transfer here
Can You Save The Dream That Was America?
By Douglas MacKinnon
Thursday, June 28, 2007

As an everyday citizen of the United States, what are your realistic options when you believe your country to be in a death spiral from which it almost assuredly won’t recover?

If you are an American who still deeply believes in the promise of our republic, how can you fight back against those from within, intent on destroying everything you hold sacred by subverting traditional family values, western civilization, national security, and just plain commonsense?

Shockingly, maybe you can’t. I’m told it’s basically too late to save the nation that represents the last best hope for mankind.

Six months ago, my novel “America’s Last Days,” was released. The novel fictionalized a revolution from within led by the former director of the FBI and the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who felt the nation was broken beyond repair and it was their duty as patriots, to try to salvage the remnants of the government established by our Founding Fathers.

Aside from trying to tell an entertaining story, I was also trying to wave a red flag. It was one of the few realistic options open to me.

Since the book’s release in January, I have received hundreds of emails from readers, and hundreds of phone calls from listeners on the radio shows I’ve done around the nation, who feel that the far-left has such a strangle hold on our media, colleges, high schools, entertainment outlets, and even a large percentage of our clergy, that the United States of their fathers and grandfathers, of border security, of politicians who put country before party or self interest, is beyond salvation.

The emails and calls – from police, firefighters, military personnel, and a host of other occupations – focus their pessimism on a few recurring themes. Chief among them is that both parties have compromised our critical border security in a craven attempt to secure the Hispanic-American vote for 2008 and beyond. Aside from the callers and readers, my Hispanic-American wife strongly agrees with that assessment. As a newly minted U.S. citizen who complied with every law of our nation, she feels this White House, the Democratic leadership, and a number of Republicans, have slapped her in the face with their transparent amnesty program for illegal aliens.

Next is the fear that our very politicians are working behind the scenes to fold the United States into a borderless, single currency, part of the “North American Union.”

Beyond that, is the rising anger at those who use political correctness as an excuse to ignore radical Islam, and especially the Islamists in our own nation who mean us great harm. The examples are many but one of the most cited is the fact that liberal executives from PBS – the network you pay for with your taxes – refused to air the film “Islam vs. Islamists: Voices From the Muslim Center.” A film that states that moderate Muslims in a number of Western countries, including the United States, are being intimidated by fanatical Islamists.

These left-leaning executives chose not to air this important documentary for most likely two reasons. First, because some “conservatives” were involved in the making of the film, and second, because they did not want to offend those who mean to exterminate us.

That twisted rationale leads to the next concern of my readers and callers. That being that as the far-left labors day and night to ensure that the millions of immigrants pouring into our nation – illegal and legal – don’t assimilate, that they guarantee the balkanization of what used to be the United States. Time and history have proven that the fate of multiethnic, multicultural countries is certain. They break-up and revolve around the gravitational pull of their native language, culture, and ideology.

As Democrat and Republican politicians eagerly chase money and power at the expense of ethics, spirituality, and national security, they have become equal co-conspirators in the destruction of our nation from within.

If you agree with this assessment, then how – short of the revolution I start in my novel – can we save the United States from its rapidly approaching demise? Myself and tens of millions of Americans, anxiously await your answer.

_______________________________________________

expert analysis:

EXCEPTIONAL column...
Sagacious, salient, germane and cogent!

re:
"Chief among them is that both parties have compromised our critical border security in a craven attempt to secure the Hispanic-American vote for 2008 and beyond. Aside from the callers and readers, my Hispanic-American wife strongly agrees with that assessment. As a newly minted U.S. citizen who complied with every law of our nation, she feels this White House, the Democratic leadership, and a number of Republicans, have slapped her in the face with their transparent amnesty program for illegal aliens."

Lou Dobbs gets vilified by pro-ILLEGAL forces for racism and xenophobia against hispanics... in reality, his WIFE is Mexican-American! The pro-amnesty argument and apologia for ILLEGALS has gotten totally distorted for reasons that Mr. MacKinnon cites-- a naked grab for $/power and latino votes irrespective of the rule of law and antithetical to what would be best for mainstream America. And yes, assimilation is NOT the goal of the far left PC anti-America multicultural remote elitist ilk and the socio-ethnocentric Reconquista La Raza/LULAC/Mexican Government cabal!

The so-called "cheap labor" is cheap only to a few owners who do NOT pass along the svaings... all they pass along to taxpayers and middle America are the STAGGERING social costs and plagues of importing undereducated, indigent, socially and culturally disparate ethnocentric ILLEGAL aliens.

"Time and history have proven that the fate of multi-ethnic, multicultural countries is certain. They break up and revolve around the gravitational pull of their native language, culture, and ideology."

Ronald Reagan:
"A nation that cannot control its own borders cannot control its own destiny."

[Reagan said that the worst mistake of his presidency was getting snookered via Simpson-Mazzoli by promises of enforcement after a "one-time only" amnesty... Alan Simpson later said the same thing. Once burned, shame on them-- twice burned, shame on US!]

replt to: Tasha Tchin
re:

_________________________________________________

Tasha Tchin writes: Wednesday, June, 27, 2007 3:35 PM
Bush's Base
_________________________________________________

Excellent analysis, Tasha... I voted for Presidente Jorge twice (while holding my nose) as the presumptive lesser evil, but there is no greater evil for a genuine traditional American conservative who believes in limited govt. and sees wars as a last resort only than voting for what proves to be a RINO globalist neoCON.

The guy was such a bungling communicator that it was actually a bit hard to tell even what he alleged that he was for! But I know this-- he had specifically eschewed nation building, then did a Crazy Ivan and attempted just that in Iraq... the whole neoCON scam took some time to grasp, because it masqueraded as the WOT. But the Cheney cabal came into office with Iraq invasion erextions-- they just did not tell anybody what their REAL agenda was.

Also, 9/11 made Jorge officially backburner his goal to make America Mexico Norte. But you are right-- his ilk of wealthy plutocrats could give a rat's keaster if the ILLEGAL alien tsunami horde trashes america so long as they have their new slaves to milk.

Scamnesty RIP
It does not get much better than this! Middle America has prevailed over the lobbies by miscreant employers and the socio-ethnocentric groups seeking reconquista. Presidente Jorge looked like he had had a death in his family.

Now we need to press to seal that damm border... we don't need no stinkin' path to citizenship! As Reagan said, "A nation that cannot control its own borders cannot control its destiny." His greatest regret was having been snookered into Simpson -Mazzoli with a phony promise of enforcement in exchange for a "one-time" amnesty of 1 million+ (which became 3 million)... that also led to the mess we have now.

Thanks to all of you good Americans who fought to save America's heritage and cultural integrity. We have won a big battle-- we must now gird ourselves to win the war!

Too Subtle For Lodestar
Lodestar:
"reply to: "flaming" liberal you are flaming to be sure..."

Thank you.

"can you cite EVEN ONE of those "hardworking undocumented aliens who will become multibillionaires, greatly increasing our GNP and tax base!"... I didn't think so."

(Sigh),...Lodestar, lodestar, lodestar,.... Tell you what: I'll site you an former undocumented worker turned Guest Worker turned citizen turned multibillionaire for every lazy good-for-nothing illegal alien turned guest worker turned citizen who imports his whole extended family who all go on welfare that YOU CAN ACTUALLY SHOW ME!!!!!!!! Fair deal?

The whole point is that neither animal exists, and neither figure has any business appearing in a purportedly serious document!! The heritage foundation's insulting speculations do tell you something about the prejudices of the Heritage Foundation, but they don't have any reliable grounding in reality. I told you right up front that Bullsh-- numbers like that were coming out of my a--, the Heritage Folks aren't so honest.
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