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Monday, June 11, 2007
Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Global Warming Gets Religion
by Amanda Carpenter
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Once she wrested control of the Senate’s Environmental and Public Works Committee from conservative stalwart Sen. Jim Inhofe (R.-Okla.), Sen. Barbara Boxer (D.-Calif.) was expected to aggressively pursue legislation to combat global warming. What wasn’t expected was that she would do it with blessings from the Church.

Last Thursday, Boxer held a hearing that highlighted the growing role of religion in liberal political campaigns--particularly in the name of “environmental justice.” There, a coalition of 35 religious denominations called for an 80 percent reduction in global warming emissions by the year 2050, and bill S.309, sponsored by Boxer and avowed socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders (I.-Vt.), calls for the same.

“Evangelical Christians, Catholics, African Methodist Episcopals, Jews, mainline Protestant Christians, and many other people of faith see the need for action on global warming as a moral, ethical and scriptural mandate,” Boxer said.

She explained, “People of faith contacted us recognizing that science says global warming’s effects will fall most heavily on poor people. All we have to do is look at what happened during [Hurricane] Katrina, even in one of the world’s wealthiest countries.”

On behalf of the National Council of Churches, which claims to represent 45 million Americans, Episcopal Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori said, “Faith communities, in the area of global warming, are increasingly of one mind that action is needed.” She pled with her “colleagues in the faith community [who] doubt the urgency of addressing global warming,” saying: “I urge you to reconsider for the sake of God’s good earth.”

Among the religious communities supporting the emissions cuts were: the African Methodist Episcopal Church, the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the National Council of Churches USA, PAX Christi USA, the Union for Reform Judaism and Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations.

Sen. Inhofe, the ranking member of the committee, said using religious leaders to advocate for government intervention against global warming was a new technique Democrats were using to “divide and conquer the evangelical community and get people away from core values issues.”

His critique follows remarks Democrat National Committee Chairman Howard Dean made at a May 2007 fundraiser in San Francisco: “People don’t want to go to church anymore…and come out feeling bad because they know someone who is gay. People want to go to church because they know what they can do about poverty, about Darfur, about the environment.”

Dean also praised Dr. Rick Warren, the author of “The Purpose Driven Life,” and televangelist Joel Osteen, who welcomed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D.-Calif.) to his Houston Lakewood Church. Dean added, “Those people don't beat up on other people to make their point and raise a lot of money.”

Like Sen. Inhofe, Competitive Enterprise Institute senior fellow and author of the “Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming” Chris Horner was skeptical of the religious calls to protect the earth from climate change.

Horner wrote in an email, “As you might expect, even though some individuals of faith sincerely buy the slogan offered by those usual-suspect groups underwriting their participation in the debate, upon scrutiny conflating this agenda with faith is quite clearly a distortion at best and perversion at worse. In fact, it is unavoidable that for most serious adherents of this agenda, ‘environmentalism’ as practiced in this post-modern form is the religion in itself.”

In the hearing, a number of faith-oriented campaigns were mentioned like the “What Would Jesus Drive?” project sponsored by the Evangelical Environmental and Jewish community’s “How Many Jews Does It Take to Change a Light Bulb” drive to replace incandescent light bulbs with fluorescent ones during Hanukkah.

There was even discussion of a religious program that sells carbon offsets. The Evangelical Climate Initiative, a nonprofit 501(c)(3), offers tax-deductible carbon offsets for $99 per year through a program called “Cooling Creation.” Their website states that 93 percent of the carbon offset “donations” submitted “goes directly to offsets, climate change education and outreach.”

Historian David Barton, summoned to the panel by Sen. Inhofe and named one of the “Twenty-five Most Influential Evangelicals in America” by Time Magazine, commented on these various campaigns: “The next time we see Jesus, He will be driving neither a Hummer nor a Hybrid.”

Barton suggested that Boxer was exaggerating the religious community’s support for liberal environmentalism. “The Scriptures teach conservation, not preservation,” he said. “Man was the steward of nature and environment, and while man definitely is to tend and guard it, it is to serve him, not vice versa. From the beginning, God warned about elevating nature and the environment over man and his Creator.”

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About The Author
Amanda Carpenter is the author of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton,” published in October 2006.
 
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revealing
I don't know Boxer's religious beliefs, but there is something silly in the idea that Schori, who has devoted her life to her religion, is now using that religion as a stalking horse for a secular agenda.

These columns suggest that some on the right are really threatened by losing the monopoly on religious support for conservative views.

Junk science, Junk religion
"...environmentalism’ as practiced in this post-modern form is the religion in itself.”" --Chris Horner

No kidding. These left wing religious types spend more time worrying about politics and the environment than people's eternal souls. The fact is that Jesus gave us 2 commands that were the most important: Love God and Love Your Neighbor. If you really want to love your neighbor, spend more time telling them about God then about Gore.

Not your grandfather's religion
A lot of churches got out of the business of saving souls a long time ago. The focus now is saving society (a social agenda). It's hard to get a hefty collection plate if you're going to tell people they can't live together in lieu of marriage or they ought not to spend Sunday in the shopping mall.

Do you mean David Barton?

Your last paragraph sounds like Mr. Barton not Burton. He is right that hyper-environmentalism is perversion of man's mandate to exercise dominion over the earth.

Christians need not be Republicans
Thanks for such an even handed column. It is possible to be a Christian and believe the scientists are right about global warming.

Question
I do not question that Sen. Jim Inhofe (R.-Okla.), represents his community well but I will ask if he has any papers certifing that he is sane?

Ignorance is showing
As soon as I began to read Carpenter's column, I knew I was reading words by someone who knows very little about religion in the USA.

She makes such stupid mistakes as referring to the National Council of Churches as the National Council of Episcopal Churches. (No such animal.) She writes of the African Methodist Episcopals. Another sign of ignorance. They are not Episcopals, they are Methodists.

And various other such errors that indicate lack of acquaintance with the faith communities in the USA.

Amanda should take a good course or two in American religion before she tries to write on the subject.

Roy
Nah she at least stired things up

Gee, I thought
that separation of church and State was liberalism's First Commandment, with the separation of one's religious beliefs from one's political decisions being the second!

Silly me.

Good article Amanda
I wondered how long it would take the Demo/Libs who constantly scream about separation of Church and state. Saying religion has no place in politics. To use and insert religion when convenient to use as a tool to push their socialist schemes.

To think
that people who support abortion and gay marriage, among a host of other secular ideas, are being called religious is ....amazing? I knew that public school's education quality was receding, but i didn't think America had fallen this far behind. If you vote for a Dem, please do not let this be the reason. Talk about selling out to expand your voter base. The Dem's are the kid who changed the way he acted when he got around different friends to try and fit in with 50 different groups.

Face it, you've lost
Thank you for this article. It highlights a big fact.

The whole world is taking action against climate change. Just about the only hold-outs on this issue are a few "conservatives" at Townhall.

Conservative? You are not conserving anything. All you want to do is destroy the planet (and maybe our country along with it). You are welcome to continue shouting amongst each other. No one else is listening. We are all too busy actually dealing with the issue.

Those darn "socialist schemes"
Goshawk writes, "I wondered how long it would take the Demo/Libs who constantly scream about separation of Church and state. Saying religion has no place in politics. To use and insert religion when convenient to use as a tool to push their socialist schemes."

I won't even get into your typical conservative misperception that anything pro-environment is automatically "Demo/Lib" or (shudder) part of a "socialist scheme." Lots of Republicans and a fair number of conservative Christians care about environmental issues.

But I do want to address your assumption that "Demo/Libs" are hypocrites for welcoming support from elements of the religious community. Any thinking person realizes that religious convictions influence political action---sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad. But what really gets in the craw of many liberals (and, I think, libertarians) is the kind of conservative Christians who want to set up their particular set of beliefs as a kind of state religion---and whine that they are being persecuted because the rest of us will have none of it.

Gore-Bull Warming Scam Rears Its Ugly
Head Again!

While Colorado is instituting Draconian penalties for excessive Green House Gas production, it is simultaneously having its coldest June day in 50 years.

Once again, to the obsessed "Warmies:" Emperor Gore has no clothes!!!

Global Warming
Is there nothing sacred that those perfidious liberals won't try to take away from us righteous, Jesus-loving republicans? Do they not realize that taking God away from the Republican party leaves us, well, pretty much not much? Now they want to be on the right side of the environment, too? We certainly can't run on Iraq, or stem-cells, or fiscal-sanity, we'll get our white, fat, wrinkly, overprivileged white butts handed to us on an early-bird special plate. They'll leave us nothing come election day. Pray, people. Pray.

Stupid Science
I would like to let all the liberal global warming loons on Town Hall know a little something about science and faith. First off, I am an evanglical Protestant Christian. I believe that humans are to be good caretakers of the eath God gave us. However, while we are not to abuse it we are to use it for our purposes. I support the continuation of civilization which means we have to have energy, and more of it not less.

And in case any of you think I am some religious nut I think you should also know my profession, I am a chemist. That's right I am a scientist and a Christin. You liberal socialist have currupted science. You claim there is a consense on global warming, there is not. Skeptics have been silenced. That is dogma, not science. People also thought Newton and Keppler where loons too, till they were proven right.

And who is to say that we live in the best climate today? For the past 4.5 billion years the earth's climate has been changing, you can't stop it. How much of the warming is being caused by man, I don't know, nobody does. Did you know all the planets in our solar system, even Neptune and Pluto are getting warmer?

So I will say it again, we should take care of earth but we have the technology to use its resources safely. And we must never silence a debate in science because then it is not science, it is a socialist belief system mean not to help the enviornment but to expand the power of the government.

Drew
"we should take care of earth but we have the technology to use its resources safely. And we must never silence a debate in science because then it is not science,..."

I couldn't agree with you more. However, the question is: when do we stop debating and start acting? Do we wait for consensus? Should we debate until every last scientist has agreed to the basic facts?

You say Newton and Kepler were considered loons and history proved them right, but Sylvia Brown is considered a loon. I would be surprised if she is every proved right.

With every paradigm shift, there will always be a few hold-outs. Does that make them right? It is not the numbers of scientists who believe one way or the other, but rather the quality of the science that they do. Thousands upon thousands of peer reviewed articles agree that GW is primarily a man-made problem.

Sure, you may say that the peer review process is flawed (although, as a Chemist, I doubt you would have based your livelihood on a flawed process). But, if you do think it is flawed, then you must be in awe that Nuclear power plants work, rechargeable batteries work, that we can predict weather patterns, that we can run computers. You see, all of these processes were based on peer review and all of these processes work. If you disregard the science of global warming, then you must also disregard the science of virtually any other field.

andrewe, you said,
"No one else is listening. We are all too busy actually dealing with the issue."

This is typical elitist, intellectual, leftist speech. Of course you would love to think liberals such as yourself have highly evolved minds (only in their minds though does this thought occur)are vastly superior over any of the redneck hicks who post on Townhall. If you are so busy actually dealing with the issue WHY pray tell are you wasting your hugely valuable, worthwhile time posting amongst all us stupid ones? Oh yes, it is liberal hypocrisy rearing its ugly head once more. Please go back to moveon.org or dailykos so all you libs can stroke each other with comments about how wonderful you all are in comparison to conservative hicks (you know like those on TH) everywhere. And since you apparently already know everything that the rest of us don't, I won't bother to show you the stupidity of your argument. Rush Limbaugh pegged liberals perfectly: libs are simply 'for' everything because then they don't have to think about anything.


Many who call themselves by My Name
I will say on Judgment Day, "I never knew you." - Jesus Christ. Many who call themselves "Christians" do not even know a tenth of the meaning of the word. Most Christian denominations today worship the Word of God but not the GOD of the Word. They rarely pray to God, have no relationship with God, and DO NOT EVEN believe in the Kingdom Power granted to Christians on this Earth by Jesus Himself to heal the sick, raise the dead, prophecy, and expel demons in the name of Christ. Christ said whatsoever we bind or loose on Earth, it shall be bound or loosed in Heaven. Christ lived out every day of His life on earth in Kingdom power. These miracles are available to all Christians if we ONLY WOULD BELIEVE. 99.9% of so-called Christians today are functionally atheistic in the sense that they do not even believe what they purport to believe in the Word of God. When was the last time a minister gave a sermon on the Kingdom of GOD???? NEVER!!!!! They ought to be ashamed of themselves. They have the audacity to question God as to why their pews are empty on Sunday - especially empty of men -when they themselves are directly responsible for the effeminization and neutering of the Church and the REAL KINGDOM POWER in the Word of God that they refuse to believe in or preach on or research or whatever. They are too caught up in getting their numbers up in the collection plates, but have taken their eyes off of the KINGDOM OF GOD: read - GOD'S WILL ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN!!! Yes, it's as simple as that; it's called the Lord's Prayer. Every Christian on Earth knows the Lord's Prayer but so few even know what the Hell it really means - how tragic!!!! It's no wonder the people have abandoned modern-day dead-as-a-door-nail lifeless man-made religion. They long for God-made FAITH and the POWER inherent in the promises of the will of God to establish HIS Kingdom on Earth just asit is already established in Heaven.

Solo610
Mountain Rose wrote:

"Gore-Bull Warming Scam Rears Its Ugly
Head Again!

While Colorado is instituting Draconian penalties for excessive Green House Gas production, it is simultaneously having its coldest June day in 50 years.

Once again, to the obsessed "Warmies:" Emperor Gore has no clothes!!!"

This is the message of ignorance, oh it's a record day for cool temperatures, that must disprove global warming. What about the fact that last year was the warmest on record for the US..

See this page for the report
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2007/s2772.htm


Take back the government
You said:
"When was the last time a minister gave a sermon on the Kingdom of GOD???? NEVER!!!!!"

Woodland Hills Church, St. Paul MN
Pastor Greg Boyd

Preaches on Kingdom living every Sunday!
http://www.whchurch.org

Go to their website, click on resources and download sermons mostly from Pastor Boyd, also other speakers.

Andrewe
Peer review is merely a process that maintains rigorous standards and accuracy in science. Peer review does not make scientific discoveries. The scientific method does not even make those discoveries; people do. Peer review only serves to give us confidence in the results.

Using your argument, you would have to reject all scientific discoveries that were made before peer review was ever used. You must reject the wheel, methods of making fire, and animal breeding.

Peer review is conducted by flawed human beings who bring their own biases, opinions, and motives (like maintaining research funding) to the process. To suggest that peer review is capable of not being flawed ignores human nature.

The question is whether or not climate scientists are being influenced to "sex up" their results to always support the notion of anthropogenic global warming (AGW). Some scientists who worked on the infamous U.N. AGW study reported that they were told the conclusions that had to be reached - before they produced their data! Others, such as Dr. Timothy Ball, say it is made clear to them that they will lose funding and face ostracism by their colleagues if they dare to question AGW orthodoxy.

Another pander to people of faith
Do they really think people of faith are so easily led? The people I know are thoughtful, articulate and deep thinkers. Just because a politician uses 'buzz words' like "lord and savior' and "walked the isle" and "prayer warriors" doesnt necessarily mean me and my friends will take that leap.

We'll be watching and waiting.
Check out this great blog post that talks about faith and Politics

http://redletterbelievers.blogspot.com/2007/06/politicians-and-faith.html

booboolane
booboolane writes: Monday, June, 11, 2007 11:30 PM
Solo610
'My God hates everything I hate. I created God in
my image. My God is great, just like Allah. Allahu Akbar'.

Way to go Solo. Got any other original ideas?


I forgot that im not allowed to publicly state the position of my religion. Thanks for correcting me Mr. Politically Correct police man. Let me know if i say anything else that offends you, i would hate to be charged with a hate crime by insulting your hypersensitive feelings.

Solo610
booboolane writes: Monday, June, 11, 2007 11:30 PM
Solo610
"My God hates everything I hate. I created God in
my image. My God is great, just like Allah. Allahu Akbar'.

Way to go Solo. Got any other original ideas?"


solo writes: "I forgot that im not allowed to publicly state the position of my religion. Thanks for correcting me Mr. Politically Correct police man. Let me know if i say anything else that offends you, i would hate to be charged with a hate crime by insulting your hypersensitive feelings."
_________________________________________________

That's nothing my friend. I was on another thread earlier; and some atheist told me that he/she sincerely hopes all who believe in God become extinct. This person makes booboolane look like mother Teresa. And what, you may be wondering my transgression was? Well, I had the audacity to profess my faith in Jesus Christ. Sweet people, heh?

Imagine
"That's nothing my friend. I was on another thread earlier; and some atheist told me that he/she sincerely hopes all who believe in God become extinct. This person makes booboolane look like mother Teresa. And what, you may be wondering my transgression was? Well, I had the audacity to profess my faith in Jesus Christ. Sweet people, heh?"


Yeah, must be that tolerance they talk so much about.

Ckoch
CKoch writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 1:57 AM
Solo610
"Mountain Rose wrote:

'Gore-Bull Warming Scam Rears Its Ugly
Head Again!

While Colorado is instituting Draconian penalties for excessive Green House Gas production, it is simultaneously having its coldest June day in 50 years.

Once again, to the obsessed "Warmies:" Emperor Gore has no clothes!!!'

This is the message of ignorance, oh it's a record day for cool temperatures, that must disprove global warming. What about the fact that last year was the warmest on record for the US..

See this page for the report
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2007/s2772.htm
****************************

Ohhhhhh!

Low chop! CKr0tch called my message ignorant! Waaaaaaaaaah!

Think I'll eat worms!

That'll make the Vegans crazy!!!

Answer me this Bozo: Why is it that when there is a couple of hot days, or one big hurricane, the Gore-Bull Warmies point to it and say "SEE! SEE! A sign from God that Gore-Bull Warming is real!!!"

But when we have record cold temperatures all over the country all last winter, even after the Gore-Bull Nazis predicted mild weather, WE are not allowed to point out that THEY are full of, well... GORE-BULL!

Oh yes, and when the Gore-Bullies claim that there is going to be a bad hurricane season, as the Weather Fascists did last year, (BASED ON THEIR BOGUS COMPUTER MODELS), and the hurricanes turned out to be mild... well, we are not supposed to notice.

Well, we DO notice when your BS is showing!

Lesson Plan?
It appears that conservatives and I attended different Sunday schools as children. I do not recall a single lesson telling me to loathe homosexuals and worship wealth, but I do remember some on stewardship as a duty to God, since he owns the earth of which we are temporary stewards.

The only thing...
that stands between US and an 80% reduction in carbon emissions rates by 2050 is about $10,000,000,000,000; or, about 2% of GDP over the period. We'll never miss: the coal and natural gas generated electricity; the gasoline and diesel fueled cars, trucks, buses and trains; the natural gas, propane and oil furnaces, boilers and water heaters; or, the natural gas and propane ranges, grills and laundry dryers. Ah, the simple life!

global warming/oppression
Global warming is just another tool used by the communists to take over business' & oppress the general population into peonism while the communist elite live lives of luxury.

(lilly - what "sunday school" did you attend? Oviously not a Christian one as they would teach you that "global warming" is experienced in the here-after by those who have no love for God.)

Gore and the Environment
WTO China Trade Deal Destroys the environment.

I would like to hear from Al Gore about how he can be for the environment while turning a blind eye to the environmental concerns of the WTO China trade deal?

NPR-According to the World Bank, 16 of the world’s 20 most polluted cities are in China. The industrial revolution transforming the world’s most populous country is also destroying its environment. China is now the world’s second-largest emitter of carbon dioxide, the main gas linked to global warming, and it is set to overtake the United States in 2009, a decade earlier than previously predicted.

A visit to Shanxi province’s Linfen, the city that has topped China’s pollution charts for the past three years, demonstrates the factors contributing to China’s rise in greenhouse gases.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/wto-china-trade-deal-destroys-environment

Just because leftists are hijacking ...
... religion to market their environmental hysteria doesn't make them right (pun intended).

Boxer is trying to use these useful idiots to sell her leftist bill to conservatives. It won't work!

Blessings of Congregation Left!
As those bound by true Love know,the blessings Sen. Barbara Boxer receives "from the Church.", are blessings from man.A church, literally defined,a congregation, of people bound by a faith intertwined with laws.Ms. Carpenter quotes Senator Boxer saying, “Evangelical Christians, Catholics, African Methodist Episcopals, Jews, mainline Protestant Christians, and many other people of faith see the need for action on global warming as a moral, ethical and scriptural mandate,”.Here, Senator Boxer, is using a broad brush to liberally paint the picture,all those bound by faith are on her side. Behind her,with support,and actions,as “People of faith contacted us recognizing that science says global warming’s effects will fall most heavily on poor people." This is not a blessing from “People of faith", This is a WARNING to those boxing,fighting, the ultimate establishment of, "God’s good earth.”. The congregation,faithful to Loves truths,already follow the scriptural mandate ensuring them,and their decendants,a place in "God’s good earth.”. For the sake of God this church,congregation, is the poor,depressed,and responsibly faithful humans in society. THE WORD OF GOD IS OFFERING THE LEFT THIS BLESSING. "They have eyes,but do not see. Ears,but do not hear. One cannot remove the splinter from a brothers eye,without first removing the timber from their own."

I always wonder
where the remaining 30% of Americans who still think Bush is the greatest thing since sliced bread actually are. Well, I can always find them on TH.

These anti GW posts are so hate-riddled, ignorant, and interestingly, cannot even contemplate the issue of GW without making it all about their hatred of the liberal boogeyman and nothing about science or reason.

It is always morbidly fascinating to observe people who are so hate-filled that they are willing to sacrifice everything and anything to it, even their environment. Sort of like watching a geek show or a train wreck.

On the other hand, it is also ressuring to know that this remaining 30 percent are so far out, so nuts, that they marginalize themselves and prvide for themselves a rapidly shrinking opportunity to be heard in any reasonable debate, or listened to with any seriousness.

Boo!

jo j
The majority of the hate in the USA is by the Marxist pigs/liberals (aka Democrats) who are misrepresenting science so as to destroy our constitutional republic.

also
When people equate the subject of GW with liberal, anti-Christian boogeymen they marginalize themselves to such a degree and make themselves look like such idiots that nobody has to worry about their being taken seriously.

anti
"The majority of the hate in the USA is by the Marxist pigs/liberals (aka Democrats) who are misrepresenting science so as to destroy our constitutional republic."

Thanks for proving my point by providing such a terrific example. You guys might think about finding somebody to save you from yourselves.

Rob
"Scientists have virtually all agreed that a global warming period or cooling period is measured and confirmed when the trend lasts for centuries."

Un, no, Rob. Thirty-three different swings of the warming-cooling pendulum have been recorded so far. While it is true that some have lasted a long time others are barely a blip on the chart. What hasn't happened is the is the rapid
RATE of change we are experiencing now in temperature increase, or the rapid rate of CO2 accumulation in the atmosphere since the beginning of the industrial revolution.

For Amanda Carpenter
I actually enjoyed your column because even though it is coming from a different point of view than mine it was refreshing to read something on TH that was informative and free from moralizing and sanctimoniousness. I regret that the serious and potentially interesting discussion that might have followed has been polluted by the contributors who usually find their level with Mike Gallagher or Kevin McCullough.

Nice try, though.

Rob
" think the the 30% who support Bush were spotted with the 27% that suppoprt the Democratic controlled Congress"

No, Rob, those 27% are strictly in a league all by themselves, sort of like a cult.

errata
I meant the 30% of course - as for the 27% who support the Democratically controlled congress, I would guess it took more than that to make that congress possible in the last election.

Andrewe 11:24PM
"We are all too busy actually dealing with the issue."

Please explain how running in circles and wetting yourself is doing anything about a non-existent problem.

Actually Andrewe, no one with any brains is listening to people like you. You have to be of very low intelligence to not see that there is absolutely no basis to the theory that CO2 has any more than a minimal effect on the climate.

Better dry your leg off and get back to grade school.

JoJo 9:43AM
Please tell me what is the basis for your statement "What hasn't happened is the rapid RATE of change we are experiencing now in temperature increase, or the rapid rate of CO2 accumulation in the atmosphere since the beginning of the industrial revolution." This typical talking point is just another liberal urban legend. A .6 degree increase over 150 years is "rapid?" You couldn't even discern that amount of change from one hour to the next.

Also, will one of you Warmers please do us a favor and actually describe some of the overwhelming evidence coming out of the hundreds of peer-reviewed papers that prove human-generated GHG cause climate change. This is another of those urban legend claims. Please just even name one study and describe what it claims. Outside of computer models, there is nothing in science to support any of your arguments. C'mon, show us your cards or shut up.

Peer review
Andrewe writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 1:22 AM

"""Sure, you may say that the peer review process is flawed (although, as a Chemist, I doubt you would have based your livelihood on a flawed process). But, if you do think it is flawed, then you must be in awe that Nuclear power plants work, rechargeable batteries work, that we can predict weather patterns, that we can run computers. You see, all of these processes were based on peer review and all of these processes work. If you disregard the science of global warming, then you must also disregard the science of virtually any other field."""

Where this fails to prove your point is that each of the items you named can not only be peer reviewed but also there can be a working model made to prove that it would work. With global warming, all that can be shown is computer models that say something. If you change one ot two things in the programming of the model you would get a different answer. Also if someone tried to make a working model or even a controlled lab experement, they would fail. None tried so far shows the results claimed.

So all a peer revies can do is say, if point A is correct and point B is correct and Point C is correct, then result D would be correct. It does not say that A plus B plus C will equal D no matter what.

jo j, Boo Hoo Hoo
Its not hard to figure out why,people of the left,come here to cry their ocean of tears.Their sadistic impulses drives them to seek out any form of injury they can aquire. Why else would they force themselves to enter, and view, blogs from, your quote, "people who are so hate-filled...". I chuckle everytime read that line. Why,in the world, would someone seek out injury from what they view as hate. I realize,they probable feel,they could inject their words of wisdom, and convert the hate.There by giving them temporary satisfaction,attained has they release pent up passions. The confined passions of those peering out the window,safe in the confines of their possessions.Liberally giving to the tax collector has he comes to your door.There by insuring the air conditioner continues to run,the fridge is stocked,and that poor son-of-a-gun,lying out in the street,has a christian church down the road where he can get a meal, and a place to sleep.

Hey Rob!
You forgot to go back to the "Little Ice Age" which was in full sway during America's Revolutionary War.

The Globe has been warming for 250 years, since long before the enternal combustion engine.

Oh, I forgot. The Leftists dominating education don't teach US History, except to bash America.

Lilly the Trojan Horse
lilly writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 6:58 AM
"Lesson Plan?
It appears that conservatives and I attended different Sunday schools as children. I do not recall a single lesson telling me to loathe homosexuals and worship wealth, but I do remember some on stewardship as a duty to God, since he owns the earth of which we are temporary stewards."
*************************************

Yes folks, here is another example of a Leftist Trojan Horse, to pretend that she (or he) is religious, and then slams the tennants of the Christian Faith with her bogus STRAW MAN arguements.

When God says homosexuality is wrong, He doesn't say lothe them. And He doesn't say to worship wealth.

We don't do either, AND YOU KNOW THAT VERY WELL.

You are hoping that by insulting us you can drive us to the dark side.

No such luck!

Expound Truth- "Hateful TH-ers"
I'm with you!

When the Left call us hateful, what is really happening is that they are the haters. They hate to hear us express ourselves freely after so many years of their efforts to shut us up and shut us down.

When they feel that hate welling up within them, they have trouble admitting that the source of the hate is their inner faulty character, so they project their hate onto us.

Typical!

Amazing
The only action being considered is emissions cuts enforced by the threat of violence.

No one has ever considered other solutions, such as detonating hydrogen bombs to send dust into the stratosphere to block out sunlight?

Try Try Again
JoJo With all due respect, you do not know what you are talking about. You just fed me the Left's enviornmental talking points. As a real scientist, let me try this again.

Yes, we see that this is the most rapid increase of CO2 that we have seen. However, what liberals don't tell you is that we only have atmospheric data from ice core samples for the last 6000 years. After that they are too compressed. That still leaves over 3 billions of climate history unexplored.

When dinosaurs lived on earth, there were no humans, nor where there any polar ice caps. Today Mars, Pluto, every planet in the solar system is warming. Many think that increased solar activity is causing part of this, in fact they think we are entering a highly active sun spot cycle.

I could go on and on. Business and industry are working to reduce emission (if you thin they're causing a problem). We are finding useful ways to take the CO2 we product as a by-product and use it in another process, removing it from the atomsphere.

Finally who says we have the best climate right now anyway? It just goes to show you that liberals only want more government control and regulation to push towards a socialist state. They care nothing about the enviornment.


Belief
I, for one, do not believe that man can destroy the earth. We have heard it before - remember when Sadaam set the oil wells on fire - the nuclear winter that was to follow. There have been many such scares.
My faith says that God would not allow us to destroy what he has created. I do not worry about global warming. In fact, I am pro-global warming. Things are getting better! Life is good!

Global Warming
Name one bad thing that has resulted from the less than 1 degree rise in our temperature over the last 100 years?

Yawn
According to the secular world, the Earth is @4.5 billion years old.

The first accurate temperature scale and mercury thermometer date back to @ 1725.

The first numerical weather prediction (i.e. computer modeling) dates back to 1955.

To put this in sports terms: GW believers are using a system developed 5 seconds ago that takes the last two plays of the Super Bowl and uses them to predict every play of the 2007 Indianapolis Colts season.




I'd like to know
just what anyone thinks the ideal temperature for Earth is. How does one arrive at that figure? And, how can anyone claim to know that a rise of .7 degrees C over the course of a century is radical enough to warrant yet another gov't scheme to pick our pockets? We can't accurately predict how severe any hurricane season will be-remember the dire predictions of last year?, but we can somehow know that if we don't do *something* and do it right NOW, we'll all burn up?

I ask, How?

Oops
I meant to say the dire predictions of last year that never materialized. Sorry.

knowknownoshki writes: 11, 2007 5:37 PM
It says in Revelation
that God (aka Goddie/John Gotti) is going to destroy
those "who are destroying The Earth" 11:18.

Better sooner than later.
C'mon, Goddie/Gotti, get these lice once and for all--they deserve it.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

In absence of actually reading the scripture you naturally had no option but to give the words your private interpretations.

The chapter is about two prophets and they being persecuted by everybody on earth. Rev 11:5,

But the profits are killed 11:7

And God’s enemies on the entire earth shall rejoice at his prophet’s death, Rev 11:10 “And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice.”

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

That verse says the nations of the earth were angry of God’s authority on earth and that they shall be judged for all that they did to crush his church and He will destroy them which destroy the earth. Now we need to look at the two words, “destroy” and “earth”. Did those who hated God’s church and his prophets get angry at God and go around physically messing with terra firma, I think not. Look closely God is going to “destroy” them and it is the same Greek word that is used to destroy His authority on earth. In the Greek this destroy, is diaphtheiro¯ or to corrupt mind or morals. Earth is ge¯ and means the entirety of the earth as opposed to the heavens.

So it looks like you are correct that he is going to get the lice once and for all, it just may not be the lice you anticipate.

Knowknowski proved a fool again
Doesn't even know that Gotti WAS NOT considered religious (Catholic Church refused to conduct his funeral), and extrapolates the name to the Almighty!

Amanda how much oil/coal money did U get
Amanda Carpenter you twit, how much money are you getting from the oil and coal companies?

Catholic church? That cult. The pope thinks he speaks directly for GOD! Now I know what the bible says and it does not say the Pope talks for God. Spiritual leader, but not substitute for God or global scientist.

ALSO GLOBAL WARMING IS A OLD AND INACCURATE TERM. It Global Climate Change. Which is indisputable it has changed and we know why CO2. Now we can disagree its man causing the CO2 but with thousands of millions of tons of CO2 going into the air from man alone it makes sense we have something to do with it.

The real debate is what to do about it. Ignore it, because frankly we should be ok for another 100 years and I won't care than, as long as my mother Freaking energy stocks do well. Yes that is one approach.

If it is not OIL/COAL lobby money speaking some conservatives and republicans FIGHT against the idea of any climate problem just because Al Gore is the spokes person. How childish that your HATE for all that is democrat will make you sell you soul; you will say retarded things just so you can RIP on Gore and the democrats for your own sick perverted pleasure.

Remember when scientist where found that said cigarette smoking is not bad for you? You all are a bunch of liars, cheats and crooks.

CKoch writes: Tuesday, 12, 2007 1:57 AM
This is the message of ignorance, oh it's a record day for cool temperatures, that must disprove global warming. What about the fact that last year was the warmest on record for the US..

See this page for the report
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2007/s2772.htm

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

Friends let me interject a couple thoughts of sanity. The UN keeps backing off every couple years of their extremism because the facts are not coming to fruition. Global warming was instigated by the UN when their push for global freezing failed during our mini ice age some 40 years ago. They trotted out Stephen Schneider as the expert claiming that we were going to freeze to death. We had to take drastic action because there would be no sun to grow food and we needed massive greenhouses everywhere. However, back then the kids had not come out of the giver-ment K-12 indoctrination camps completely devoid of critical thinking and we immediately knew the UN was a bunch of Marxist loonies and we ignored them. So they decided to change direction in favor of global warming hoping people fear burning to death more than freezing to death. For the next 20 years they planted seeds of global warming in the media and then trotted out, (surprise, surprise) Schneider to now tell us we are going to burn to death. The dogs bit and the UN was on its way to impose a global wealth redistribution scam via Kyoto to take money from the US and give it to the world for some concocted warming we are causing. And a multi-billion dollar warming industry was born throughout the world with folks making money from each country’s giver-ment funding to prove global warming, they hungry for our money and we spending yet more hungry to enslave our useful idiots to the one world giver-ment.

For my good atheist friends and for those of enlightenment rooted in empiricism and scientism, you claim truth is only that which can be measured. SCIENCE IS THE BUSINESS OF MEASURING, not conjecturing.

Folks, consensus is not science, consensus is an opinion of folks who often have no degree in the science in question. But they are happy to get larger fed grants to state they believe in global warming. Yet science is measuring such not giving your feelings. That the temperate went up in the late 1800’s, dropped in the 60’s, has gone up since then only proves for sure the temperate will change up and down.

Is there global warming, nobody knows yet. All we know is that far more scientist have a consensus that there isn’t but again consensus is not proof. Here is the problem in this UN wealth redistribution religion they have created, we don’t know what direction the temperature should be going. Or said another way, what is the proper temperature. Maybe the temperature is still way too low and it should be 10 degrees warmer. In the Paleocene era it was 25 degrees warmer. Things flourished. It is said that 2,000 years ago it was only 10 degrees warmer having lost some 15 degrees.

Here is what these warming “political scientist” wasting taxpayer's money around the world playing us like fools and getting rich off the UN political correctness scheme need to do, tell us what the proper temperature is suppose to be and how they arrived at that. Only then we can tell whether we are heading toward the proper temperature or away from it.

Until then this entire scam is insanity. When global warming is most likely debunked in 20 years, fear not the UN already has 5 more scares ready to spring on you to give up your sovereignty if favor of soothing your fears they create.

jetpilot writes: 12, 2007 2:41 PM

It Global Climate Change. Which is indisputable it has changed and we know why CO2. Now we can disagree its man causing the CO2 but with thousands of millions of tons of CO2 going into the air from man alone it makes sense we have something to do with it.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

I think it is now proven that CO2 is the result not the cause, as it takes place after the temperature rise not before. And no that is not heresy, the UN will merely find another reason that we must pay the world an energy tax.

Politicians and Globalk Warming
Politicians exist to point out the problems of the world - not to solve them. They are incapable of solving even the simplest of problems such as the invasion of our country from the south of us. Does anyone really believe that they do not know how to solve this problem over night? If they solve it - they will have to dream up another problem to solve. GLobal Warming will get off the back bench and step up to the plate!

tax the church
It seems to me that churches are getting more into the political spectrum than ever. I know that I have seen the balance sheet on some of the Catholic orders and it is mind bogling how much money they have. I feel also that the conservative movement has been dealt a very severe blow by the religious right and their desire to substitute religion for the socialism of the left.

With this much religious in put in the system, we are long overdue to begin taxing these institutions.

I would stongly recommend Hitchens "God is not Great". It is a great book and helps to put things into perspective.

Re: Global Warming
The current panic about "global warming" is political fraud, and not supported by climate science. Millions of dollars and thousands of jobs depend on keeping this fraud alive. Taking drastic measures to "stop global warming," when humans have no control over global climate, is a disservice to America.

Global warming alarmists claim we need to “reduce carbon” because carbon dioxide (CO2) emission increases are the main culprit causing global warming that will lead to the destruction of our planet. Clearly, we need to be good stewards of our planet, but taking drastic measures to “stop global warming” is ludicrous.

Alarmists’ claims vs. common sense:

1.If we can’t predict tomorrow’s climate, how can we predict that specific climate changes will occur years from now? (Hint: Don’t believe the excuse that “long-range predictions are simpler than short-range predictions”).

2.Why have alarmists’ forecasts of doom been wrong every time in the past—remember the 1970s “Coming Ice Age” panic? (Hint: computer climate models?)

3.How do we explain the 1940-1975 global cooling while CO2 concentration was exponentially increasing?

4.CO2 is about 0.05% of the atmospheric gases by volume, so how can this small volume percentage gas cause world catastrophe?

Carbon dioxide and global temperature:

1.Most of the temperature increase in the past century occurred before 1940—long before CO2 emissions increased.

2.The earth has been cooling since 1998.

3.The climate changes that have occurred over the past century are within natural limits expected by knowledgeable climatologists.

4.Surveys of ice core records dating back thousands of years reveal that the CO2 concentration increase lagged global temperature increase by up to 800 years because of the oceans’ role in absorbing and releasing CO2. In other words, warming caused carbon dioxide concentration to increase, not the reverse—a direct contradiction to alarmists’ claims.

5.A major reason that CO2 concentration does not correlate with global temperature is the complex effect of the oceans in absorbing and releasing CO2, and the effects of clouds, water vapor, aerosols, and solar irradiance.

6.Detailed data show that humans’ effect upon climate is so small that it is not measurable with any accuracy.

7.Since CO2 concentration does not correlate with global temperature, “controlling carbon” will have no measurable effect on global temperature.

8.Alarmists’ predictions are based on flawed computer models that fail to characterize water vapor, clouds, solar irradiation and aerosols.

9.Like the rest of the UN, its Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is primarily a political organization with diverse agendas. It makes false claims about climate science, and spins scientists’ research to achieve a desired conclusion--alarm.

10.The IPCC developed the Kyoto Protocol using the flawed computer models noted above, and compliance would have no measurable effect on climate, and a major negative economic impact.

11.Most nations that have signed up for Kyoto are not meeting their emissions requirements.

12.Carbon credits: a fraud; ludicrous because human carbon emissions have virtually no effect on global climate; a windfall for attorneys and Congressional investigative committees; a needless, dangerous drag on our economy.

13.Alarmists attack those who disagree with their fraud because thousands of jobs and millions of dollars of funding depend on keeping the alarm panic alive.

Get the facts on the global warming issue at:

http://epw.senate.gov/repwhitepapers/6345050%20Hot%20&%20Cold%20Media.pdf

http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv15n2/reg15n2g.html

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/warming/debate/singer.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallie_Baliunas

http://ff.org/centers/csspp/library/co2weekly/20060406/20060406_11.pdf

http://www.marshall.org/experts.php?id=44

Please contact President Bush, Congressional Representatives and Senators and ask them to fight against “global warming” legislation and signing the Kyoto Protocol.

Sincerely,

James K. Boomer
4031 Dalewood Drive
Fort Wayne, IN 46815

Phone: 260-484-2917

e-mail: jkboomer1@verizon.net

Jetpilot
"It Global Climate Change. Which is indisputable it has changed and we know why CO2."

First Global Cooling, then when that didn't work it became Global Warming. Well, facts get in the way, and to covering all bets, it is now Global Climate Change. How's that for scientific accuracy?

In 35-50 years, when a two-third of the globe will be reeling under a progressively cooling planet, future generations will marvel at how easy it was for a group of "concerned scientists" and politicians to get away with one of the biggest scams known to man.

BTW, the tropics (where the biggest signal for global warming should be located) has been cooling since 2002. The Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO), which affects the El Nino/El Nina Oscillations shows signs of going negative (first time since 1976). Most of our recent warming has occured since the famous PDO switch in 1976 went positive. If it is in fact going negative, the global warming scare will over in 8 years or less. The last time a neagative switch occured was 1940-41. Ask the Germans what they thought of the winters of 1941-45.

Take back the government
WOLC.com, Pastor Brian Zahn He is extremely Kindom focused and preaches hard messages that many "Christians" have a hard time dealing with. Deal with it now or answer to HIM later.

Hit enter too soom
"HIM" = Jesus

PV
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/crosscutting/climate.html

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006PhRvE..74f1114R

physics.bu.edu/~redner/pubs/ps/climate.ps

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/04/17/climate.change/index.html

About three weeks ago I spent an afternoon with a Professor of Geology from a local university. (I know, I know, academics are liars and fools, let's get that over with). He said that in his view, the only uncertainty is whether the forces that cause the heating/cooling earth pendulum to swing back will override the earth-based influences that are causing it to swing more quickly to the heating apogee.

He also said that the rapid increase of CO2 since 1850 or so is real, and that anybody who pretends it isn't happening is just not intrested in science.

With the exception of Wegman and a very, very few others, I would like to know from you who has put out contrary statistics that isn't on the Exxon or any other energy industry payroll.

It seems to me that the Republicans would support the sale of kiddie porn if the business that provided it got rich off of it, donated huge sums to Republican candidates and congressmen to support it, and through lobbies and personal contacts attended secret meetings with morally corrupt and intransigent administration officials to find ways to share the profits and convince a gullible public to love it and fight for it's survival on fringe blogs and talk radio.

Rob and others
Your contention that Warming science cannot be trusted because it inaccurately predicted a cooling trend in the past is interesting - do you feel the same way about Bush, who inaccurately predicted a nuclear and chemical weapon-armed Iraq?

Expound Truth
"Why,in the world, would someone seek out injury from what they view as hate."

Why would you think your hate-filled (not hateful) rants are injurious? I think they are amusing, that's why I come here. Am also fascinated by car wrecks, freak shows, and snake handling, but I'm hardly affected personally by them.

Some people's rants are same old predictable hash(Mountain Rose) and are pretty boring you must admit. Some have too many bible quotes (Alive in Him) and are boring also. Those aren't worth reading, actually. But some are so perverse, so weird, so froth-at-the-mouth, ingeniously stupid that they make me laugh.

C'mon, Ex - I love it when you talk dirty to me.

Church enters Global Warming debates
i notice you didn't list my Church, so not all religions are into this political farce of Gore's Global Warming. Anyone who knows their world history, should know Mo Earth has been around billions of years, and anyone who knows women, should know they (we) do get cantankerous once in awhile. And this is what Mo Earth is doing now. Just because we weren't around a couple million years ago, doesn't mean we haven't warmed and cooled a time or two.
Lets get onto something worthwhile...like the Azetc prediction the earth civilization as we know it, will end in 2012? Take your choice which you'd like to believe.....but for now, get busy and bloom where you are planted, and smile :-)

JoJo, Soft Science Majors, et al: Really
It seems to me that the Republicans would support the sale of kiddie porn if the business that provided it got rich off of it, donated huge sums to Republican candidates and congressmen to support it, and through lobbies and personal contacts attended secret meetings with morally corrupt and intransigent administration officials to find ways to share the profits and convince a gullible public to love it and fight for it's survival on fringe blogs and talk radio.

+ Really? Charmingly gratuitous assertion, coming from someone who obviously places herself firmly in the "to each according to her needs column." Long on innuendo & short on facts you seem to be oblivious to the wholesale selling of pardons during the last days of the Clinton administration. Or Senator Feinstein recently being removed form her senate DoD committee because of apparent war profiteering- she apparently steered DoD contracts directly to her husband's company. Or the Democrats hidden $100B in new ear-mard spending IOT buy votes. Then there's billionaire uber-socialists like George Soros, who invested Millions $$$ into Democrat 527’s IOT change the course of a Presidential election & journalists like “Red” Dan Rather who generate fake “evidence” at the 11th hour because they have the temerity to think that their actions can change the course of a presidential election. But since you would probably agree their leftist ends justified their means I’d probably have as much success trying to reason with a “brick wall.” The DNC would sell its collective soul to Satan herself IOT retain political power permanently. Hence, they play games w/ Iraq war funding & they market junk science like anthropogenic "Global Warming" in order to mobilize their gullible voter base (i.e., parasitic, weak minded & easily lead) via their apologists and enablers in the MSM & fringe blogs like DK & DU.

JoJo: Trust Left-wing Judgement?
JoJo writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 4:33 PM
Rob and others
Your contention that Warming science cannot be trusted because it inaccurately predicted a cooling trend in the past is interesting - do you feel the same way about Bush, who inaccurately predicted a nuclear and chemical weapon-armed Iraq?

Do you feel the same way about the entire Democrat leadership? How can you trust the collective judgment of the same Democrat party that was apparently deceived into voting for a war based upon shoddy intelligence? How can the most ostensibly incompetent & verbally incontinent President( at least according to the leftist MSM) in the history of the U.S. accomplish the most far reaching conspiracy in the history of the U.S., including manipulating prominent members of the Democrat party (that so viscerally hates him) into voting in support of the Iraqi invasion? If Bush can essentially manipulate the entire DNC, imagine what a group of “reputable” scientists can do WRT global warming paired with a need for research $$$.


oops
With all the "communists are after us AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" posts I thought this was in response to Prager's column on conspiracies.

I guess the NAS, the AGU, the EPA, the Royal Society, NOAA, the AMS, and the national academies of the G8 countries are all commies? Who knew?

The intrepid posters of Townhall knew. Can we get your thoeires on the moon landing too?


Average temperature...
...means nothing. 2005 was the hottest on record, they say, but "How hot was it?" It was .004 degrees warmer than it was in 1939. They fail to give you the "minor" details. Global warming is a scam. They have nothing to go on except their "crystal ball" models. Kinda like the weatherman predicted 0 rain or showers and the next afternoon, storms were everywhere. They are called "pop-up" storms. They couldn't predict them. How do you model a chaotic system? It's impossible. They can't even "backcast"!

Why do they always refer to Katrina and GW??? Katrina was a Cat3 when it hit land.....there have been a lot of Cat3's. It was the breaking of the levees that did the damage, but these idiots want to, somehow, link it to GW! What a bunch of morons! These guilt-ridden libs have NO critical thinking skills and accept anything that a "scientist" says. Lemmings are smarter!

gofer
"They can't even "backcast"!"

It's called "hindcasting" and yes they can, take a look at the IPCC report.



Demosthenes
"Do you feel the same way about the entire Democrat leadership?" etc. etc.

Well, so we've agreed that we live in a country that is so divided that nobody should trust anybody. All congressmen are deceitful, stupid, gullible, or cynical.

How's that working for us?

great column
Sharkie - The World Health Organization estimates that about 150,000 people are dying each year because of the effects of global warming (droughts, disease, etc.).

For those who deny that global warming is happening, I'd be interested in hearing their explanations for the receding glaciers around the world. That doesn't happen by a warm winter or two but rather a trend over a century. Also, air temperature changes the ratio of different isotopes of oxygen. By comparing the different isotopes of oxygen in air trapped in ice years ago, we can tell the temperature of that period. There's a distinct relationship between the temperature and CO2 levels over the millennia.

There is infinitely more money to be made by denying global warming than acknowledging it.

I hang out on TH because it gets boring discussing issues with people who all agree with you. Both the left and right spend too much time talking among their groups rather than between them. I encourage conservatives to visit the liberal websites to make their case. Try CrossLeft.org and FaithfulDemocrat.com.

JoJo, There's hope.
You are the one that called them hate-filled,as you continue to express them as hate-filled. I'm actually glad you find them amusing, as you are drawn to the truth.That means you will keep returning to learn truth,has you read. That puts you in a more opportune,seasonal, position than I was before I learned.Once upon a time I liberally followed my passions,and desires,with no regard as to the outcome.I sit here today,permanently disabled,as a result.You would be greatly "fascinated by"(your words in quotes)the "car wreck" that caused my disabilities. I wonder if you would be just as fascinated with the truths I learned. Truths learned from people that actually stopped to help.Truths learned of the people driving by,peering out their window,fascinated with the destruction caused from a head-on collision.Fascinated by my lifeless body,lying in a pool of blood. I've learned truths since that moment in time,that words cannot express. You might be interpreting my hate for the deceiver,has you are amused by my post. Your not reading hate-filled words concerning the person responsibly acting against the deceiver.




liberalgoodman, last night...
...wrote " It is possible to be a Christian and believe the scientists are right about global warming. "

Yes, that's possible. It's just not possible to be an objective scientist and believe that.

Cam, you really need to broaden...
...your education.

Cam wrote: "Sharkie - The World Health Organization estimates that about 150,000 people are dying each year because of the effects of global warming (droughts, disease, etc.)."

The World Health Organization is using reasons not supported by any legitimate scientist. Droughts happen, and there's no necessary link between them and global climate change.

"For those who deny that global warming is happening..."

I don't really know anybody like that, although there are quite a few scientists who legitimately question the measurements of those temperatures. From what I've read, the debate is not over whether the earth is warming, but over how much, and by what cause.

"There's a distinct relationship between the temperature and CO2 levels over the millennia."

Yes, there is, but which causes which? Scientifically, there's much better support for the claim that higher temperatures cause a rise in CO2 levels, than there is for the converse claim. Historically, the rise in CO2 levels lags behind the corresponding rise in global temperatures by about 800 years. And there's no new principle of climate interactions needed to explain the relationship; higher temperatures increase plant growth, which in turn increases CO2 output.

"There is infinitely more money to be made by denying global warming than acknowledging it."

Really? When all the government research dollars are aimed at proving AGW theories? You need to rethink this one, Chester... most of the money is behind AGW claims (that's Anthropocentric Global Warming, global warmning caused by man), because if the UN can get everyone to buy into it, their leverage to govern the world grows exponentially, and their ability to profit from that power grows with it.

"I encourage conservatives to visit the liberal websites to make their case. Try CrossLeft.org and FaithfulDemocrat.com."

I tried this on Kos, HuffPo, and ... golly, can't remember the third one. Know what happened? The "defenders of free thought" who run those sites immediately delete any post from a conservative. They don't permit a free exchange of ideas on liberal sites. You have to come to a conservative site, where we GENUINELY believe in free exchanges, to get that.

jojo, pullleeeeez
jojo: "He said that in his view, the only uncertainty is whether the forces that cause the heating/cooling earth pendulum to swing back will override the earth-based influences that are causing it to swing more quickly to the heating apogee."

me: And, of course, his opinion is the touchpoint by which we must assess all scientific matters.

jojo: "He also said that the rapid increase of CO2 since 1850 or so is real, and that anybody who pretends it isn't happening is just not intrested in science."

me: Perhaps; but there's a great deal of debate over the EFFECT of that increase -- whether it's harmful, whether natural systems adjust to it, whether it really affects global temperatures much at all, etc.

jojo: "With the exception of Wegman and a very, very few others, I would like to know from you who has put out contrary statistics that isn't on the Exxon or any other energy industry payroll."

me: And here, I thought you guys really cared about science (irony warning). Look, I could just as easily ask you to name anybody arguing for AGW whose governmental funding source doesn't gain power or budget from a finding in favor of AGW. But that would not be LOGICALLY or SCIENTIFICALLY correct. The accuracy of scientific finding is not determined by its funding source, nor by the number of scientists who adhere to it. Peer review (when it's properly followed), accurate scientific methods, replicability of results -- those are the means by which scientific works are assessed, not your (biased, uninformed) opinions regarding who funded the research.

jojo :"It seems to me that the Republicans would support the sale of kiddie porn if the business that provided it got rich off of it"

me: Yes, I'm sure it seems that way to you. That's because you've never really gotten to know a SINGLE ONE of those EEEeeeeeeevil Republicans you're so busy slandering. Your assessment is based on a fantasy, one that you protect with all your human might.

on global warming: by the way...
...fine article summarizing scientific objections to a number of AGW hysterics, and illustrating just how much research there is that does NOT support the AGW bandwagon, at

http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/education/reports/hansen/hansen.jsp

My sense is, anybody who claims "all legitimate scientists agree" about AGW, has never spent more than a moment or two actually reading scientific literature. Anybody who actually reads the stuff, knows there's still a pretty robust debate on quite a number of fronts.

Thank You Supporters
There are many on our university campus that have become very political and believe every word Al Gore says. They are extremely liberal, and very man centered. That is their right too. However, they won't let there be debate on global warming. And all those national agencies, well let me tell you that if you are studing climate change, you only get really good grants to find evidence of global warming, thanks to our local Democrats.

Those who want more data and understand that the Earth system is sooo complex we still have a lot to figure out, are vertually silenced. That is not science. And hate filled liberals can push whatever dogma they want.

But hey, what do I know, I'm only a Chemist.

will
You read 'em, didn't you?

Now go away, and leave genuine discourse to those who haven't flunked the first day of Logic 101, k, child?

Crimson2 Tues 6/12 6:23PM
"It's called "hindcasting" and yes they can, take a look at the IPCC report."

Sorry, the models can't hindcast with anything approaching a level of skill. In fact, their projections are no better than picking from a random set of numbers.

The models all overstate observed warming by a factor of 3. The only time they can even pretend to successfully hindcast is when the models are tuned (a process where parameters are arbitrarily adjusted so the results can back into simulating actually observed data. Most of the time the modelers try to "tune" their models when hindcasting by arbitrarily inflating the parameter for aerosols to a high enough level to offset the excess warming originally projected by the models.

This is a very silly and actually fraudulent game which makes a joke of the scientific process...of course, that is it's intent because even the proponents of this hoax know that's exactly what it is...nothing but a bald-faced anti-human power grab. Nice try though.
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