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Friday, June 01, 2007
Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Scandal follows the Clintons
by Amanda Carpenter
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You may have read about the $146,886 jet trip a prominent CEO bankrolled for the Clintons to vacation in Acapulco, but this trip is just one of the favors the Clintons received from a company that makes millions selling the kind of personal data that's coveted by political campaigns.

When asked by the Associated Press about her trips sponsored by InfoUSA, a data mining corporation her husband is paid to advise, Hillary said “Whatever I’ve done, I complied with the Senate rules at the time. That’s the way every senator operates.”

But one question, seemingly obvious to a conservative journalist like me, why is Hillary, who is running for the Democrat nomination for President, so cozy with a CEO who sells personal data so valued by political campaigns?

The Associated Press didn’t ask this. The Associated Press also didn’t ask Hillary about the personal information InfoUSA sells about Clinton donors.

What has been covered in the mainstream media is the financial support Vinod Gupta, CEO of InfoUSA, has lavished on the Clinton through his personal checkbook and company coffers.

Gupta has secured $3 million in consulting contracts for the former President. Gupta has also donated at least $1 million to Bill Clinton’s presidential library, $2 million to Hillary’s 1999 New Year’s Eve Millennium party and “bundled” $200,000 for her Senate campaign.

The Clintons were also given use of InfoUSA’s corporate jet to take trips to Switzerland, Hawaii, Mexico and Jamaica at an estimated cost of $900,000. When Hillary used the jet for campaign purposes she only reimbursed the company at the cost of a first class flight. Her reimbursements, for seven of these trips, totaled $450,000—a significant discount from private jet fare costs.

According to Hillary’s Senate financial disclosure forms, InfoUSA also paid Mr. Clinton $200,000 to deliver a speech in Omaha, Nebraska, where the company is headquartered, on July 27, 2001. Hillary’s disclosure forms also report that Mr. Clinton is paid an undisclosed fee of “more than $1,000” annually in “non-employee compensation.”

Recently, Cardinal Value Equity Partners, InfoUSA’s largest shareholder filed a lawsuit against Gupta’s for recklessly spending company money. Among other things, the shareholders were outraged about the company money had been spent on the Clintons.

Now, here’s what you haven’t been told about the Clinton’s relationship with InfoUSA.

Gupta’s company is a database marketing service that, according to its website, sells personal contact information like emails, phone numbers and home addresses for 210 million US customers and 14 million US businesses.

This information is used by political campaigns to target voters.

In the last election, InfoUSA sold personal information like this to the Democratic National Committee. A November 15, 2006 article by InformationWeek reported that the DNC spent $8 million through the 2006 election cycle building a database called Netezza and that “somewhere between 60 percent and 70 percent was filled with data purchased through InfoUSA.”

And, it looks like the Clintons have sold some donor information through InfoUSA sponsored lists. An April 30, 2006 article by the New York Daily News reported that Hillary had collected at least $340,000 in cash for mailing donation solicitations on their behalf to Clinton donors.

Walter Karl Inc. is InfoUSA’s List Management and List Brokerage Division and manages such lists. Among its offerings, it sells “data cards” that contain email, phone numbers and/or home addresses for those who contributed to Bill Clinton’s legal defense fund and Hillary Clintons’ presidential campaign.

Data cards currently sold by Walter Karl contain contact information for persons who gave money to: the Clinton Presidential Library, the Clinton Legal Defense Fund, Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign called Friends of Hillary and Hillary Clinton’s political action committee called HillPAC.

Walter Karl also sells lists of those who have donated to the: Democratic National Committee, Democratic National Committee Hispanic Donors, Democratic candidates, labor unions and liberal organizations.

Only two of the several hundred lists available on the Walter Karl website appear to be Republican leaning. They are for donors to Republican candidates and conservative organization contributors.

Again, why is Hillary Clinton so closely aligned with the CEO of a data mining corporation?

Since 1994 Hillary has shown interest in creating a voter database to further her political ambitions. As First Lady, she sought to construct a $1.7 million voter database called the White House Data Base, at taxpayer expense, even though doing so would violate the law. The 1882 Hatch Act prohibits candidates from using government property, or workers on taxpayer time for campaign purposes.

White House aide Marsha Scott wrote a memo to Hillary on June 28, 1994 about the project titled “Recommendation for Design of New Database.” The memo told Hillary that Scott was working with the DNC on building a new database. It discussed “cloning and duplicating databases” and that “any information in Peoplebase [old database] could then be dumped into the new system and made available, when deemed necessary, to the DNC and other entities we choose to work with for political purposes.”

Hillary read the memo and wrote on it: “Sounds promising. Please advise. HRC.” This memo was later distributed to the media by Congressman David McIntosh, former chairman of the House Government Reform and Oversight subcommittee.

At the time, McIntosh said, “It’s clear that Mrs. Clinton not only signed off on using taxpayer funds to create the White House Data Base but that she also raised no objection when Marsha Scott suggested illegally transferring database information to the DNC. It troubles me deeply that Mrs. Clinton, who is a very bright lawyer, saw no problem using taxpayer funds to aid the political operations of the DNC.”

Since leaving the White House Bill Clinton’s former deputy chief of staff, Harold Ickes, has since created his own voter database called Catalist that is used by several Democrat special interest groups. Some of Catalist’s clients include: ACORN, MoveOn.Org., Emily’s List, the AFL-CIO and the Service Employees International Union. Hillary Clinton works closely with each of these liberal groups.

According to the Omaha World-Herald, InfoUSA has sought to distance itself from a scandal that preyed on the elderly and poor in Iowa by destroying online links between InfoUSA and Walter Karl.

At the time of publication, the links from Walter Karl that advertise the Clinton donor lists are still active.

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About The Author
Amanda Carpenter is the author of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton,” published in October 2006.
 
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Snooze
Hilliary's a crook. Everyone, left and right, knows that. The issue comes down to this: Do you care? Her supporters don't. Her adversaries do. I'm going back to bed.

Hillary
Does this surprse me, about her. Not one iota.
She has been involved in the under the table tactics for years. The Clintons never miss a chance to grab money and gifts. They took money from Chinese generals when they were in the Whitehouse and they will take it from you also given the chance.

For sale
Bush is trying to sell the American people down the river and the Clintons tryed to sell the white house like a motel six. Whats next?

LOL!
I just looked up Scandal in the dictionary and sure enough, it was Bubba and Hitlery in the photo next to the word!

ALL...Check my blog for a GUT PUNCH on illegals and the RINOs supporting this scamnesty crap.

ALL
Check my blog for the Bubba and Hitlery Show!

Great quotes from America's favorite commie couple.

Crud
There has never been, and most likely, never will be a slimey-er couple than these two cretins.

What's The Problem
Seriously, I don't get it.


I don't like Hilary
But this database marketing stuff (it's what I do for a living) is perfectly legit.

There may be some issues with the use of a private plane and reimbursing as if it was first class though...

It doesn't matter.
Hitlery could be caught on video tape murdering 100 children, and the talking heads on TV and the scribblers in the newspapers would still worship her. They'd yell that those kids "asked for it", and the "scandal" was nothing but a "vast right wing conspiracy!"

Want proof of that assertion? Google "Rose Law Firm billing documents" and read about Hitlery's connections to a massive real estate/loan scandal, and take note of how NONE of the media outlets ever said boo about her LITTERALY stealing from the poor and elderly.

BadAndy
Doesn't matter if it is legal or not. To the right wing, if a Clinton does it, its a punishable offense.

As to the air fare costs....the author herself reports that Clinton paid $450,000 for 7 flights. Over 60 grand a flight? What's the problem?

Beowulf
Suppose you actually make a case before you accuse someone of illegal activity. Exactly what real estate scandal are you discussing?

Jack
You seem to be the only one who didn't hear about "Whitewater".

GunnyG, I'm not sure they were brainwashed in 1970--they may have already been pro-Maoist prior (as Bubba certainly gave China an easy pass and handed it lots of US hi-tech; I remember a man in a Marietta gym telling me that Bubba/Shilary were agents for Red China--and certainly, there's plenty of evidence IN FAVOUR of it, none against).

svpallava
Yes, I have heard of Whitewater. Perhaps it is you who forgot that three separate investigations, all led by Republicans, concluded there was no wrongdoing in the Whitewater case. You see, I couldn't imagine a rational person suggesting the Clintons were guilty of wrongdoing in that case, given that they were exonerated several times.




Huh?
Did I miss something in this article, like for instance, a crime? Seems like a lot of slanted innuendo by a rightwing hack pseudo journalist.

The real criminals are in the White House as we speak, I wish Amanda would take them on, but I am not gonna hold my breath.

Ron
You're just too hateful to pay attention to.

Amanda - PLEASE check your grammar. The article was painful to read.

Billy and Hilly
These two make normal people's skin craw. Their supporters support them, not in spite of their dishonesty, but rather, because of it. The two of them occupying positions of power is a perfect indication that this country is well on its way to the ash heap of history.

Hey Ron
I didn't see any journalist's accusing the Clintons of "illegal activity". I did, however, see a reporter providing factual information showing a sleezy relationship with a sleezy organization.
We are also tired of Socialists telling us that it is always the responsibility of the government to pay our way.
I must admit that the Clinton's are consistent, They have never taken money out of their pocket to pay for anything since they graduated from college. That includes their first house who's mortgage was financed by" The friends of Clinton".
Socialist is as Socialist does.

Carol, Get Real

In an entire thread devoted to bashing the Clinton's over nothing, you don't have a problem until someone does the same to the Bush's. Calling Hillary Clinton "Hitlery" doesn't strike you as hateful. Suggestions that the Clintons are traitors in the pay of the Red Chinese doesn't bother you. Calling the Clinton's slimey cretins doesn't bother you. Imaging Hillary killing hundreds of children doesn't bother you. But whooa, if someone strikes back at the Bush's then he is "too hateful to pay attention to".

One hallmark of the right wing is that, like any bully, they can't stand it when anybody fights back.



RE: Jack and Whitewater
"Yes, I have heard of Whitewater. Perhaps it is you who forgot that three separate investigations, all led by Republicans, concluded there was no wrongdoing in the Whitewater case."

Incorrect!

Ken Starr secured at least 11 convictions on the Whitewater case, and would have had more had dozens of other people not fled the country.

Furthermore, Hillary herself would be in prison right now but for one tiny detail: she successfully hid the evidence of her guilt -- those very same Rose Law Firm billing documents I told you to Google -- until two days after the statute of limitations expired.

Those documents prove, beyond ANY and ALL doubt, that Hillary Clinton was one of the masterminds of the Whitewater scandal. That is FACT. The ONLY reason she escaped her prison sentence is because she successfully violated the subpeona and was able to hide the evidence of her guilt until the statute of limitations expired. She was guilty, and any unbiased person would agree based upon the hard evidence, but she couldn't be prosecuted due to a legal technicality.

Jack
I have to agree, Im not sure what crimminal activity is involved here.

I am more upset that someone is collecting and selling personal information about me to anyone who can afford it.

RE: Jack
"One hallmark of the right wing is that, like any bully, they can't stand it when anybody fights back."

ROFL!!!

Is THAT why the right wing is reintroducing the "fairness doctrine" and applying it ONLY to venues dominated by conservates?

Is THAT why the right wing worked to ban free speech 30, 60, and 90 days before an election?

Is THAT why the right wing has attempted to silence their opposition by declaring any and all contrary speech "hate speech" and threatening lawsuits?

Oh, wait, it isn't the right wing doing this to the left wing, but the left wing doing all this to the right wing.

So much for your ridiculous BS.

of course there's nothing wrong
nothing unethical. following senate rules and of course the nuts on the right are aghast..yet their hero tom delay is the poster boy for slime..

zero indictments for clintons
and the nuts on the right clamor,but,but,but,but she's a crook..

Here's the problem, Jack
Mrs. Clinton is getting assistance with her campaign from InfoUSA in non-cash form. According to fedral election laws, the fair market value of this help must be reported as if it was a campaign contribution unless the candidate makes FULL reimbursement. Mrs. Clinton has made only partial reimbursement and failed to report the residual as a conribution.

When questioned about it Mrs. Clinton's defense apparently is to say "everybody does it".

Then there is her hubby, the old Slickmeister himself. Under current federal election laws and current community property laws InfoUSA can "hire" Slick Willie for $3 million to make a few speeches and when he can 'gives' that money to his wife it is not a 'gift' or a campaign contribution because as soon as it becomes his it is also hers.

On top of that we have the very questionable practice of a 'contactor' (InfoUSA) providing campaign services to a candidate that can steer an enormous amount of business their way if elected.

As for your comment that we cons think everything the Clintons do is illegal or ought to be, you are right. Most of us believe that perjury was among the least of their crimes as first couple and that if everything they have done that was illegal came to light they would both be locked up and the keys thrown away.

uh wiseone
the problem with your post and why I'm pretty sure your a hypocrite is mention of the 'everybody else does it' argument. Do you realize you and your radio talk show/townhall bretheren have been using this defense for the unecessary war in Iraq? If I had a dollar for everyone of you who proclaimed "but the dems said it too' argument I would own Townhall. You lost me after you flip flopped on the complaint of the 'everyboys does it....

Wolfie
Dude, we are talking about the Clintons, aren't we?

Your conviction regarding anyone's guilt is worthless. Investigations by Ray, Fiske, Starr, the House Banking Committee and the Senate Whitewater Investigative Panel all ended with the same result: no evidence the Clintons comitteed any crimes.

Its interesting that all these investigations produced the same reuslt, yet you continue to claim they are guilty and, in a fit of absolute absurdity, claim that anyone who is "unbiased" would agree with you.

That it never occurs to you that the bias is entirely yours makes you a laughingstock...at least among the rational.

Sometimes, It's Nice To Have Friends...

...Especially if they're RICH!

Recently Jorge Perez, a South Florida billionaire and longtime Clinton financial supporter donated to Mrs Bill Clinton thousands of dollars and, says he "EXPECTS" the junior senator from New York to assign him to an ambassadorial post if she indeed becomes president.

The fact Perez has made it publicly, abundantly clear he fully expects Mrs Clinton to do something similar to what her husband did when Bill rewarded his rich supporter with an appointment to The National Council on the Arts only shows how the stakes have gone up for both the candidate and, the contributor this go 'round.

The difference between winning or losing in Florida, especially in Miami which is by all accounts Republican-dominated, could very well rest on the former first lady's ability to keep the $1.8 billion man on her side. Perez is of Cuban descent which makes him a very important friend to have in Miami, a city that is after all, heavily populated with Jorge's people.

It is critical that Mrs Clinton carry Miami if she has any hope at all of winning Florida, and thus moving back into the house at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. So you see, an ambassadorship for such a loyal friend of the Clinton's seems a small price to pay for her dream, and America's nightmare to come to fruition.

Perez has been very generous to politicians over the years but the biggest benefactors of his largesse over the last decade by far has been the tag team of Hill-Billary and, this time Mr Perez obviously wants something a bit more prestigious than The National Council on the Arts appointment and to a man of his stature, with his wealth, prestige is everything.

It doesn't take much imagination for one to draw the conclusion that if she gets what she wants, he'll get what he wants, and we'll get what we deserve for letting it happen!




More Wolfie


"Is THAT why the right wing is reintroducing the "fairness doctrine" and applying it ONLY to venues dominated by conservates?"

WHy lie like this? Do you think no one knows that what you say is wrong? No one has yet reintroduced the fairness doctrine, and no one has suggested it would not apply to all public airwaves if it were reintroduced.

"Is THAT why the right wing worked to ban free speech 30, 60, and 90 days before an election?"

I assume you mean campaign reform laws passed by a Republican Congress and signed into law by a Republican President?

"Is THAT why the right wing has attempted to silence their opposition by declaring any and all contrary speech "hate speech" and threatening lawsuits?"

You are making a fool of yourself. Go ahead and ask a few of your fellow travelers if there has been any attempt to "declare any and all contrary speech hate speech."

As usual, you miss the point. For example, I think the reason that righties hate Clinton so much is that he wouldn't just crumble. He fought back. He counter-attacked, and they can't tolerate that.

Wiseone
Where in the article is there a claim that the Clintons failed to appropriately reimburse anyone for anything? If Carpenter has evidence that the Clintons violated campaign finance reform, she should report that. If you have such evidence, you should report it.

The only implication in the article is that the Clinton's reimbursed the company $450,000 for flights which THE AUTHOR estimates are valued at $900,000. If anyone discovers a crime, let me know.

AS for the rest. I missed the part where Mrs Clinton said "everybody does it." She did say that she followed all the rules and, unless you have other information, that appears to be true and you appear to have made something up. You also seem to have a problem with a company that provides a service to campaigns providing a service to the Clinton campaign.

In short, what's the problem?

And the silence is deafening..
Sure got quiet around here

Amanda...
must love having her toes sucked because this is the same exact stuff Dick (I can't get a girl so I will get a prostitute instead) Morris writes over and over again. get a life.

Jack, 11:55 AM
Wrote: "Perhaps it is you who forgot that three separate investigations, all led by Republicans, concluded there was no wrongdoing in the Whitewater case."

Um... not exactly.

There were TWO investigations that I know of into the Whitewater case, one at the federal level, and one at the state level. Both resulted in several felony convictions. One of those convicted was the governor of the state of Arkansas. The total number of felony convictions -- note, this is not indictments, this is CONVICTIONS -- was 19, if I recall.

The Whitewater Development Corp was a front for a highly prosecutable land scam that defrauded the Small Business Administration of several million dollars, and caused the collapse of a small S&L, Madison Guarantee, resulting in the loss of many thousands of peoples' life savings.

I believe what you're trying to say is that the Clintons were not among those convicted. This is, unfortunately, correct. We note that there were four witnesses who claimed to be able to tie President Bill Clinton to the affair. The fact Pres Clinton was caught red-handed tampering with witnesses and suborning perjury in the Lewinsky case, explains why none of the four witnesses actually testified against Clinton. In this case, witness 1 (Web Hubbell), received a $400,000 contract from a Clinton associate for doing essentially nothing, and changed his testimony; witness 2 (Susan McDougal) went to jail for 18 months on contempt charges rather than testify (ask yourself, why would she do that?); witness 3 (James McDougal) would not change his testimony, but predicted that he would die in an Arkansas prison before being allowed to testify -- and then he died in an Arkansas prison before being allowed to testify; witness 4 (gas station owner, can't recall his name) left his home in a hurry at 1 AM one morning and died when his car ran into a ditch. This is what Democrats call being "completely exonerated." Of course, Democrats still accuse Karl Rove of outing Valerie Plame on the basis of much less convincing evidence. But the Clintons did nothing wrong.

Mrs. Clinton was not only an active participant in the Whitewater affair as a lawyer for the Rose Law Firm, she would have been prosecuted for producing a fraudulent document if the prosecutor had not believed her claim of incompetence. Moreover, she appeared again as the attorney representing the Resolution Trust Company, which negotiated the US government's recovery actions after the failure of Madison Guarantee -- a clear conflict of interest if there ever was one. Predictably, only one deposit received a dime in the settlement -- Seth Ward, the Clintons' relative and mentor. Oh, and Hillary received a $600,000 fee.

Jack, you may spin this any way you like, but the Clintons are slimier than any two snails in US politics, and everybody knows it.

Jack
You're correct that there's enough hate to go around on both sides. I try not to get down on that level, but every now and then I slip.

My apologies.

Jack, 1:29 PM
Hillary has already been caught violating campaign finance laws, and I think you know it.

Fortunately for Lady MacBeth, the prosecutor focused on David Rosen, Hillie's campaign manager. Still, the likelihood that Hillary didn't know she was getting an extra little boost from her campaign manager is kinda slim.

Here are a couple of discussions of the event, one from the right, the other from the left.

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/05/16/hillary_clinton_scandal/index.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16603

And once again, I think you know as well as everybody else that Hillary Clinton is as unscrupulous a figure as has ever entered American politics. I just can't figure out why any individual with the slightest self-respect would agree to attempt to whitewash her.

Inkling (though you have none)
There were at least three investigations into Whitewater, more if you count congressional efforts. The investigation by the Resolution Trust Corp, led by Republican prosecutor Jay Stephens, provided two bits of informatuion which you ignore. One, it concluded that the Whitewater deal did NOT affect the collapse of Madison Guaranty and two, there was no reason to pursue the Clintons either criminally or in civil court.

Despite your fabrication and suppositions, the actual reports do NOT agree with you.

Your utter lack of objectivity in this case is evident by your misrepresentation of the facts. James McDougal, for example, did testify in Whitewater trials. He was later given a reduced sentence by Starr for cooperating with the prosecution and had ample time to provide to Starr any information he had. If you have any evidence that he predicted he would die before being allowed to testify, out with it, because I can't find a single reference to it. I suggest you have simply taken some other persons fantasy and made it your own, as is evidenced by the fact that McDougal did NOT die in an Arkansas prison as you claim, he died in Fort Worth, Texas!

Going on. In what way is Seth Ward related to the Clinton's? He was Web Hubbell's Father in Law, but as far as I know, of no relation to them. Got any evidence.

Still more, whatever fantasy you have about the Clinton's causing some unnamed gas station owner to drive into a ditch isn't in teh p[ublci record. The fact that you do not have a name exposes you to charges of out lying. The entire Clinton body count idiocy is debunked at snopes.com.

Provide any evidence you might have that Hilllary Clinton received $600,000 representing Resolution Trust.


You might consider Hillary an unscrupulous figure, but given the level of misinformation and outright deception you have provided here, you are hardly one to make accusations


Jack is a clever liar
I want everybody reading this list to note the nature of Jack's hard-core lying. I believe he's actually working for Hillary Clinton's campaign, attempting to quell any reasonable discussion of the utter depravity of her record.

Here's what Jack says: "Your utter lack of objectivity in this case is evident by your misrepresentation of the facts. James McDougal, for example, did testify in Whitewater trials. He was later given a reduced sentence by Starr for cooperating with the prosecution and had ample time to provide to Starr any information he had."

Here's what the newspaper says:

"McDougal's loss is Starr's loss - death of witness James McDougal; Independent Counsel Ken Starr - News Alert!
Insight on the News, March 30, 1998 by Jamie Dettmer, Jennifer G. Hickey

"Now that President Clinton's former business partner James McDougal is dead -- the flamboyant 57-year-old Arkansan died in federal prison after a heart attack -- where does Independent Counsel Ken Starr go to press forward with the Whitewater part of his probe?

"With McDougal's death, Starr has been robbed of one of his most important cooperative witnesses. Without him and facing the obstinate noncooperation of McDougal's former wife, Susan, Starr would appear to have little to go with in making a winnable Whitewater case against the president."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n12_v14/ai_20442625

Note that Jack said my "lack of objectivity" led me to "misrepresent the facts." But I represented the facts accurately; MacDougal was Starr's link to implicating Clinton in Whitewater, and he died before Starr was able to use his testimony.

So, now we know that Jack pretends to have facts when he doesn't have them. Please allow that to inform you when you read his other, informed-sounding crap. The man is a liar, and probably on Sen. Clinton's payroll.

He takes exception to my calling Seth Ward a relative of the Clintons, but doesn't deny that he was their mentor, nor does he deny that Ward was the only depositor in Madison Guarantee that received any reparation in the collapse of the bank.

He uses the RTC report to exonerate the Clintons -- ignoring the absolute firestorm of contraversy surrounding the RTC report, including numerous allegations that the Clinton administration tampered with the investigation in order to produce a positive result. Here's a discussion of the contraversy:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/gen/resources/infocus/whitewater/rtc.html

Given the known proclivity of the Clintonistas to tamper with investigations, we know which side to believe in this contraversy. (Note in this regard 1) the outcome of the Barrett Report, claiming serious efforts to tamper with the investigation of Cisneros, 2) the investigation into 30-odd IRS audits of conservative non-profits, while investigating 0 liberal non-profits, and 3) the firing of William Webster the day before Vince Foster's death, and the subsequent FBI investigation of the Foster affair headed by Bill Clinton himself as acting FBI Director).

Folks, there's corrupt, and then there's Hillary Clinton. She and her husband are the High Tech of political corruption; they play hard-ball, and they hurl dirt to prevent any of it from becoming public. Has anyone ever seen "Jack" on Townhall before? He's most likely a Clinton staffer, paid to perform exactly the sort of obfuscation he's attempting here. I don't have the time or the resources of a paid campaign staffer, I have to work for a living, but we already know what sort of "facts" this guy marshals, and he's a liar. Don't trust a word of what he says -- and DON'T TRUST HILLARY. She's a monster.

Jack
Jack, you don't know jack.

To all you Hillary defenders:
One question I ask:

Would you vote for her?


I have my own masochistic reasons for knowing.

Shells
I know you're not asking me... but just so you know, Hillary Clinton running for President is just about the only thing that could ever, EVER, get me to cast a vote for John McCain.

Inkling
You could have a photo along with audio of the clintonistas sitting in a tent in afhganistan chanting Jihad with Osama himself and clinton faithful would still say billary and rottenham were doing nothing wrong. Its a waste of time to ever try and convince a clintonite of the truth behind the numerous clinton scandals they have an internal mental block concerning facts.

Denial is not a river in Egypt
For Jack:

You asked what was the problem and I told you. You're reaction is to say that the "estimate" of $900,000 might be exaggerated by a factor of two. And all of this presumes that Bill Clinton would have gotten his $3 million worht of speeches even if his wife wasn't running for office.

Since you're slow I'll explain it again. The problem is that you're the only one who thinks the "estimate" is wrong by a factor of two. And you're the only one who thinks Slick Willie's BS would be worth $3 million if his wife wasn't running for Prez.

Re: :"everybody does it"

In the second paragraph of the article Mrs. Clinton is quoted as saying "That’s the way every senator operates."

Are you that obtuse, or do we have to draw you a picture?

For Democrat Avenger:

Only a kool-aid drinking lib would attempt to use the Iraq War o try to justify yet one more abuse of process by the Clintons. I am not a hypocrite because of anything that is said on talk radio. You, on the other hand, are apparently of limited mental capacity, not to mention bigoted, if you think you can assign the statements of Limbaugh, Hannity, et al on Iraq to every con who disagrees with you on every issue.

Try to stay on point. You'll make less of a fool of yourself.

Good work inkling
independent thinker is right.

If the Clintons had been caught standing over Vince Foster with the smoking gun in their hands liars like Jack would be covering their tracks and accusing the rest of us of a conspiracy to get the Clintons.

These two belong in jail, not the White House. The next time you see Bill, ask yourself if you would trust him alone with your daughter. And the next time you see Mrs. Clinton, ask yourself if you want to trust her with your children's education.

Repub Journalism
Yes, Hillary Clinton is slimey.

But, what really cracks me up about Amanda Carpenter is her reference to herself as a "conservative journalist." Hah! Read through her archives. Carpenter is a Repub Party hack. She seems to find nothing wrong with anything Republican. Are conservatives happy with the Repub Party now? Conservative journalists are finding ways to get through to hard headed Republicans in Washington. Repub journalists, like Carpenter, are salivating over Hillary Clinton. Wow! That's going to help!

Learn the lesson now, or learn it next year: Any Repub candidate who identifies with the current crop of Repub flunkies while offering nothing more than attacks on Democrats will fail to gain the support of those who will decide the election: the Great American Middle. Even if Hillary Clinton does get the Democratic nomination and Repub journalists attack her day in and day out, it won't be enough to overcome the fact that the American Middle is SICK of the Repub Party!

Carpenter would better serve conservatives by helping to weed out the ridiculous trio that currently lead the Repub polls.

Whitewater
I seem to recall that a sitting Governor of Arkansas went to jail as a result of the Whitewater investigation. There were others that went to jail. This was a land scheme and a good number of people lost their savings. The Clintons had their fingerprints all over this scandall. The MSM gives them a pass on all misbehavior.

How did it happen?
Pointing out another outrageous Clinton scandal has become passe. How did that happen? The Clintons make Richard Nixon look like Mother Theresa. What's wrong with our country that we don't care how corrupt the Clinton's are? How badly does that reflect on each of us?

http://freedomistheanswer.blogspot.com/

Re Clintons
A long article that was put up this morning on AT&T Yahoo News may still be up---google "White House Follows New Path to Secrecy". Briefly, it talks about Bush/Cheney making White House entry-and-exit sign-in and sign-out information secret---this move has been challenged in court. It's a long article covering many facets of the situation but one thing they mention is that during the Clinton years the Republican Congress made frequent use of WH entry-and-exit information in their many moves to get something on the Clintons. So it's interesting that they now want that information not to be available when it's about who goes to see Bush and Cheney.

Inky
1) There were two Whitewater trials, not one. Check both. I assume you mean he didn't get to testify against Clinton after he turned state's witness to get a shorter prison sentence. Starr had plenty of time to depose McDougal and seek corroboration to his story. The article you yourself quote also reports, "Even with McDougal, Starr probably didn't have much of a Whitewater case against Clinton."

2)I find it odd that you do not adress your blatant falsehood regarding McDougals "prediction". I assume if you could have found any corroboration, you would have provided it here.

3) I did not feel a need to deny that Seth Ward was a Clinton mentor, given that you had fabricated the information that he was a Clinton relative. However, if you insist, here is what Seth Ward once said about Bill Clinton "I told them my son-in-law was a good boy and he should never have gotten involved with that draft-dodging, homosexual-loving Bill Clinton,". I can find no reference for him being a mentor to anyone: he was more of a manipulator even to Web Hubbell. Any other claims you make have to be accompanied by evidence, not by another fabrication on your part.

4) Whether the RTC report was controversial is irrelevant given the fact that 4 other investigations also reached the same conclusion.
Only in the delusional world of the right wing Clinton hater can one ignore 5 formal findings. (Not to lead off in another direction, this is ecatly the point of Al Gore's book, Assault on Reason. If you have a commitment to hating the Clinton's do not let any evidence or rational thought get in the way.)

5) Further rambling about me being a Clinton operative just makes you (and by extension your fellow travelers)look like a twit. I am just a guy who feels that ignorance and innuendo don't do much to help the country.

6) Protestations that I am loose with the facts are a hoot, coming from someone who continues to imply that the Clintons killed Vince Foster and also references an unnamed gas station attendant possibly murdered by the Clintons.

7) If there is a chapter in the right wing Clinton bashing manual about differentiating between allegations and facts, you should skip it. It will only frustrate you.

Wiseone.
You have been misled by the writer because you want to be misled.

The 900,000 figure is loose for several reasons. One, it's an unsourced estimate. More importantly, Carpenter is vague about what trips make up that figure. Read carefully what she says:

"The Clintons were also given use of InfoUSA’s corporate jet to take trips to Switzerland, Hawaii, Mexico and Jamaica at an estimated cost of $900,000. When Hillary used the jet for campaign purposes she only reimbursed the company at the cost of a first class flight. Her reimbursements, for seven of these trips, totaled $450,000—a significant discount from private jet fare costs."


Are the campaign trips included in the $900,000? Or are they not? Are the seven campaign trips different form the vacation trips? WHy is $450,000 reimbursemnt for seven trips a "significant discount" form private jet costs? Its written vaguely so that townhallers can imply whatever evil they wish, even if it is not supported by the facts.

Regarding your response to her justification. Clinton said was "Whatever I’ve done, I complied with the Senate rules at the time. That’s the way every senator operates.” Yet, you choose to quote only the second sentence. Why? Clinton is following the Senate rules. What is the problem with that? Your half quote is a half assed attempt to mislead people.

To further elucuidate you inability to put two and two together (unless 2+2 = I hate Clinton) its worth noting that you simply didn't read the article correctly. Clinton did not receive 3 million for speeches, but for consulting contracts; Abraham doesnt specify for whom. You also question if "Slick Willie's BS would be worth $3 million if his wife wasn't running for Prez" Yet you fail to note that the income refenced in the article, especially hte speech income, is pre-2002, a number of years before Hillary was running for President.

Regardless, your question deserves an answer. Yes, Clinton's time and speeches would be worth that much regardless of what Hillary was doping. He is in great deamnd as a speaker and, as on eof the most widely respected leaders in the world, he commands very high fees wherever he goes. Not quite Reagan's 6 million a pop, but more than I get for talking to the local YMCA.

And finally, even toe sucking Dick Morris has the right angle on this. The money is perfectly legit. Its not a financial scandal. What is not legit is for Clinton to rail against corporate excess and executive compensation while being the recipient of the same. She should definitely be called on that aspect of this. The rest is just loons coming out of the swamp for another round of Clinton bashing.

Da Clintons
The Klintons are sleazy and corrupt a a summer day is long and their sycophant supporters like Ron and Democrat Avenger are just as morally corrupt.

WiseOne &Gunny
WiseOne you made a mistake. You said the next time you see bill, ask yourself if you would trust him with your daughter and the next time you see hillary ask yourself if you would trust her with your childs education. the problem is, the question about hillary should be the same as for bill - would you trust her with your daughter?
Gunny, don't look now, but if Jack gets his way, were all going to be living in Bubba land!!lmao!

Jack
BTW jack, We only have billarys word that she complied with senate rules and we all know how much a Clintons word is worth, Don't we?

To forder
You mention that the Clintons have received gifts and services, I don't know if those are the right words, favors, from moneyed friends. How about being fair and balanced here, since the Reagans were notorious in that regard. Nancy Reagan used to contact designers and ask for dresses. Reagan's friends bought him houses---expensive ones---and then got a ruling that it was OK for him to accept these gifts "as long as personal friendship was the motivating factor". If you are going to tell stories about politicians, please be fair and tell about both sides.

People!
I can sum this up in two sentences.1) There are crooks and there are the Clintons.2) Now the crooks are jealous! There you go 2 sentences!

Eastlake
I you have anything concrete to add to the conversation, feel free. Even Inky makes the effort to provide evidence, even if he makes some of it up.
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