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Tuesday, May 22, 2007
Amanda Carpenter :: Townhall.com Columnist
Rushed Immigration Bill Will Cost Taxpayers Trillions
by Amanda Carpenter
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Do you feel the leaked information from a global warming alarmist organization is meaningful?



With only a “working draft” on hand, the Democrat Leadership opened debate Monday on the new immigration bill – a bill no one has seen a final version of.

Sen. Jeff Sessions (R.-Ala.) said, “It’s unthinkable we would pass this bill in one week. It’s not in bill language and we’ve had very little opportunity to study it. I think there will be every resistance to any plan to complete this bill this week.”

Over the weekend senators only had access to a draft of the bill for “discussion purposes only” which in small print ran over 300 pages. Once the working draft is put into proper legislative form, it’s expected to be anywhere from 800 to 1,000 pages long.

Because of the hurried way the immigration bill is being rushed through the Senate, no fiscal analysis has been completed to find out how much it will cost taxpayers. Closed-door negotiations over the bill took much longer than expected and in order to move forward without the final bill on hand. To buy time, Reid reintroduced last year’s abandoned immigration bill as a “placeholder” for the new bill last week. When it is ready, the new bill will be introduced as a “substitute amendment” to the “placeholder” immigration bill.

Because the new bill was not introduced as stand-alone legislation, it did not go through routine committee markup, fiscal analysis or congressional hearings. When he opened up the Senate floor Monday for debate on the bill, Reid said he had some “reservations” with the bill, but was ready to move forward on it. “Everyone agrees this bill is imperfect,” he said, “But what we have is a starting point.”

One of the most controversial points of the bill is the plan to issue illegal immigrants “z visas” that would give them legal working status. The “z visa” would be endlessly renewed as long as its holder paid the associated fines and passed criminal background checks. Critics say the hidden costs associated with giving low-skilled workers “z visas” would cost taxpayers trillions. For this reason Robert Rector, a Heritage Foundation senior research fellow, said “this is the most expensive bill the U.S. taxpayer has ever seen.”

In March 2006, nearly 9.3 million adult illegal immigrants were living inside the United States. Most of them did not have a high school education, or were “low-skilled.” On average in fiscal year 2004, each low-skilled immigrant household consumed $30,160 in government benefits and services, but only paid on average $10,573 in taxes each.

“They never contribute more than they take out and at retirement they become very costly,” Rector said in Capitol Hill press conference on Monday with Sessions, Sen. Jim Bunning (R.-Ky.) and Rep. Bill Bilbray (R.-Calif.).

Rector explained, “Every person that gets the Z visa, and that would be about 12 million people, 9 million of which are adults--is immediately eligible for Social Security. They start to contribute to that system. They start to earn eligibility for Medicare. The White House has claimed they don’t get welfare benefits. That is absolutely untrue. For the first 10 years or so they are in the country, the adults would not get welfare benefits, but the children would. They are going to be here for fifty years. For the first 10 years they don’t get means tested welfare, but for the next forty they are going to be eligible for every single type of means tested welfare.”

Rector said it would cost the government $2.4 trillion to pay out these benefits to z visa holders. He characterized the bill as an “amnesty bill with a blank check on the U.S. taxpayer.” Entitlement programs, like Social Security and Medicare programs, are already on pace to go bankrupt due to the exploding costs of retiring baby-boomers. Rector said adding the additional retirement costs of a low-skilled population to these programs would be a “financial catastrophe.”

Bunning, who opposes the bill, suggested it could be temporarily delayed by asking the Senate Reading Clerk to read the bill text into congressional record. “If someone says to the Reading Clerk that ‘I object to the bill and you have to read it word for word’ then it won’t come tonight will it? That’s a possibility that could occur.” Bunning would not say he would make this request. He speculated that regardless of such a move the cloture vote would come sometime before Wednesday.

“Unless the White House and the leadership of the Senate agree, we will be here past the end of the week and we will not get a vote before Memorial Day,” he said. “If they decide to stonewall it and just get a bill to conference committee, then I say this bill would be passed by the end of the week.”

Monday evening, the Senate voted 69-23 to invoke cloture on the motion to proceed on the immigration bill. After passage, Leader Reid and Minority Leader Sen. Mitch McConnell (R.-KY.) pledged that the Senate would spend two weeks debating and amending the bill.

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About The Author
Amanda Carpenter is the author of “The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy's Dossier on Hillary Clinton,” published in October 2006.
 
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Time To Table
Outlaws should serve time. Rogues should be stopped in their course. A Rogue President who doesn't honor his oath to uphold law should be denied the ability to sign into law new, detrimental statutes instead of enforcing those already on the books. The Senate should table the ill-advised "Immigration Reform" proposals until the term-limited Bush is replaced next January. What can the poor kid be doing to occupy his time until then? Why he can enforce the provisions of the Duncan Hunter Security Fence Law and all other current Immigration Law. When he does that, he will see the problem to be of significantly diminished proportions.

Thanks to Bush, America is circling the drain. It is time to put a plug in it!! Table the fraud!

Guess who else gets amnesty?
The felons who hired the illegal invaders cannot be charged with their crimes when they admittedly provide documentation for the employed illegals so they can apply for their Z-Visas. Cute! The employers get to avoid the $10,000 fine per illegal and the jail-time for being an agregeous felon. Great! And, they tell us that "we are a nation of laws" -- HAH! We should change that little ditty to: "We are a nation run by scoflaws!"

A sure fix.
I'm using the following statistics Amanda used,in her article,to make a point. "On average in fiscal year 2004, each low-skilled immigrant household consumed $30,160 in government benefits and services, but only paid on average $10,573 in taxes each." From that quote,I assume,those figures were gathered from households containing legal, documented, immigrants. With that assumption,its fair to deduce,immigrant households containing undocumented immigrants paid little, if anything,to support government programs. The taxes we all pay that goes to support government sevices. Oops, my mistake, WE ALL DON'T PAY THOSE TAXES! The people that house, and employ, the undocumented immigrants slide right on by that responsibilty. Lets start calling it like it is, and fix this problem of illegal imigrants. Stop the traitorous actions of those that supply the undocumented an ability to be a burden. To burden honest,hardworking,patriotic Americans with a bill of lading. Loading Americans with the shirked responsibilities of those passionately fulfilling self-love.
THE IMMIGRATION BILL SHOULD HAVE LANGUAGE THAT HOLDS THESE TRAITORS RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY EXPENSE IT CAUSES AMERICA.

Better Plan
McCain has challenged critics of his bill to come up with a better alternative plan. I have one.

Enforce the existing law! Secure the border as rapidly as possible. Unshackel the immigration service. Stop funding any state or local government that refuses to help on immigration enforcement. And identify and deport all illegals who are a terrorist threat or engaged in criminal activity.

Once the borders are secure. We can debate the level of legal immigration and other adjustments.

There is no compelling need for a comprehensive reform package. All we need is competent enforcement of the existing law. Then we can look at anything that needs adjustment.


Immigration Bill
The bill is some 356 pages long... longer than many of the greatest novels of all time. So, you can imagine the pork that is buried in it, as well as much contradictory language, because who knows how many staffers worked on throwing this thing together. It's like reading the charter of the United Nations and we all know that's a load of crap. Bottom line, what's it going to cost me as a taxpayer? That's how I vote on any given issue. Gas is out of control, insurance is out of control, taxes will soon be out of control if this bill is approved... and you want me to agree to further erosion of my rights as a U.S. citizen? Get outta here.... it's all about the votes. Typical of Democrats, the great give-away party. There isn't a single voice in all of Congress who has the guts to speak out against this outrage. And how many candidates for the Presidency of this country were absent for the vote today? NEXT!!! All of y'all will probably disappear by the end of this year and, please God, let someone with some integrity and guts step forward to lead this country. I know you're out there, and don't be afraid of saying what you really think, because the people of this country are tired of being pandered to and hearing platitudes. I have to obey the rules of my city, county, state and country. Is it so hard to comprehend that those wishing to live in this great county abide by the same?

McCain the Fiscal "Conservative"
So the man who insists that American citizens spend $2.4 trillion because it's just too hard and inhumane to deport em all, also wants to tell us that he's a fiscal conservative. Tell you what Johnny boy, I'll take 1,000 Bridges to Nowhere which you rightly ridicule over this abortion of a bill with your greasy fingerprints wrapped all around it.

Did you hear
About the illegal aliens that were deported back to Mexico and now they are sueing the company they worked for for back wages for overtime? Now I thought we had a law that states in effect that you cannot prosper from a crime in the courts. When they were here, they were illegal and were not legally able to work so therefor they were commiting a crime. If they are able to sue for back wages, they will be prospering from a crime. Fine the company and put the whole fine into the INS and tell them to round up as many as they can and kick them home south of the Rio Grande.

Hispanic votes
Bush/Rove have stated in the past that the Republican Party needed to get votes from Hispanics. That makes a lot of sense. However, this bill will not make the Republican Party more popular with Hispanics. It is actually worse for them than the status quo.

It alienates the base and does not broaden the tent. It is a stupid political manuever that is even worse than the Prescription Drug vote buying scheme that Bush/Rove dreamed up to buy senior votes.

The prescription drug benefit program is very expensive, violated free market principles and did not help get Republicans elected in the fall of 2006.

“Great Labor Shortage Lie”
BusinessWeek Debunks the “Great Labor Shortage Lie”

BusinessWeek: A global labor crunch, already being felt by some employers, appears to have intensified in recent months. That’s in spite of widely publicized layoffs, including Citigroup’s plans to shed as many as 15,000 staffers… Corporations are determined to keep labor costs under control, so they’re reaching deeper into their bag of tricks…Some are lowering their standards for new hires or moving operations to virgin territories other outsourcers haven’t discovered…

Economists, of course, will tell you there’s no such thing as a labor shortage. From a worker’s viewpoint, many so-called shortages could quickly be solved if employers were to offer more money. And worldwide, millions of people still can’t find jobs. The strongest evidence that there’s no general shortage today is that overall worker pay has barely outpaced inflation.

SirotaBlog: Politicians…couch their bought-off immigration positions in humane terms - pretending that they care about the plight of impoverished Mexicans. Yet, most of these same politicians aggressively supported NAFTA, which deliberately drove 19 million Mexicans into poverty.

And even more to the point: advocating for so-called “guest worker” programs that provide a legal framework for American employers to exploit Mexican workers without giving those Mexican workers basic labor/human rights afforded to domestic workers is simply not a humane position either for Mexicans or Americans - it’s a position that creates a 21st Century brand of inhumane economic slavery for Mexicans, and embraces the ongoing efforts to drive American wages into the ground.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/businessweek-debunks-the-%e2%80%9cgreat-labor-shortage-lie%e2%80%9d

Mountain Rose
The middle class is in the red states [flyover
country] and we don't intend to turn blue if we
can help it. As a Texan this bill may be another
Alamo but The battle of San Jacinto is still to
come.

Howdy Neighbor!
Mountain Rose we both live in the same town. I was born and raised here in LA and after fifty-some years, I know an invasion when I see one. Unfortunately, the DC crowd couldn't spot an invasion if they were plunked down in the middle of East Los Angeles (especially the Black Caucus). And, those rich foreigners you were talking about, they are Iranians.

Last year I sat on a jury over Labor Day week hearing about two Iranians who were playing "flip that house" with commercial and multi-family residential property in three states. The $5 million in the pot was to speculate on five properties they sought to drive up the prices on, but since there was nothing but a "hand-shake" sealing the deal, when "stuff happened" things got ugly. It was a real waste of the Court's and the tax-payer's time and money.

You and I both know from our experience living in the capitol city of Aztlan what the rest of the country is in for if the "American Genocide Act of 2007" passes. Something everyone seems to forget is the fact that when the 36 million illegal invaders get their Z-cards, the first place they will be headed will be to the DMV to get their driver's license. What is that going to do to the price of gasoline without any increase in refinery capacity? Regular unleaded at $6 per gallon, perhaps?

The next stop, the gun shop. Everyone forgets that once the illegals are "legal" the invaders can arm themselves -- just like that crazy Korean at Virginia Tech! It'll be a hot time in the old town that night! Unfortunately for the Black Americans living near Latino neighborhoods it will be hunting season and the Black Caucus will lose a lot of constituents.

And, has anyone thought about where the housing will come from for the 100 million nearest and dearest getting the Z-2 and Z-3 visas? That will surely boost the price of housing as Americans watch their homes being forclosed upon because they can't pay their mortgages with their newly reduced salaries. But, that's the plan, right?

Suicide Pill
If this immigration bill passes it will destroy the Republican party. The balance of power will shift in many congressional districts and some states as illegals become legal and vote for Democrats.

McCain and Spector know that. They are killing the party anyway. In the mean time the flow of illegals will increase not decrease. This bill will never be enforced it will just hand votes to the Democrats.

Tasha Tchin- watching sausage?
Heck, the ivory tower club is dropping me into the grinder and making me a part of the mess! Living in Los Angeles, I can see exactly what is going to happen all over the United States.

Nobody talks about the rich elitist immigrants who move here and build hilltop palaces for themselves that make Sadaam look modest!

Down in the Los Angeles basin, the neighborhoods are turning into barrios, providing cheap labor to make the imported elites feel at home.

And where are all the middle-class American?

The heck if I know.

They all seem to have moved away, leaving the princes and the peasants to live out the disfunctional relationship they established in the old country.

It is all very disgusting!

Leader
Romney has pulled ahead of Rudy in the Vegas odds for the nomination.

Conservatives are realizing that Romney can unite the party (instead of divide it like McCain and Rudy), win in the purple states without sacrificing principles, and most importantly, that he will fight for thier issues not against them.

ttowntruth
How many of those workers were legal? It does make a difference. You can't fine a company if the Workers are legal. The answere would be for INS to go in and check credentials, detain any illegals, Kick them out of the country, and fine the company enough to make it hurt.A fine of 10000 dollars when they've saved three or four hundred thousand in a couple of quarters.

Cost
"Rushed Immigration Bill Will Cost Taxpayers Trillions"

And that's just to print it!

Watching the sausage being made..
I've been watching the sausage being made in the Senate and it sure ain't a pretty sight!

Teddy "the swimmer" Kennedy is nearly apoplectic as the Honorable Senator, Byron Dorgan, Democrat of North Dakota, wants to cut out the "temporary" worker program to protect American workers' jobs and wages.

Pete Domenici, allegedly a Republican Senator from New Mexico, just called the illegal invaders of our Republic, "10-15 million Americans" -- that's right, Americans, just like you and me!

Great, huh? What these illigitimi in Washington plan to do is replace we Americans with serfs and slaves from the Third World. By century's end, the USA will look and feel just like Laredo Nuevo, Mexico.

America will be a failed narco-terrorist State where the very wealthy live in fortified compounds with machine-gun toting guards patrolling the perimeters. When the wealthy leave their protected compounds, they will do so in multi-vehicle caravans bristling with armed guards.

Everyone else will be reduced to peonage and will be preyed upon by the violent gangs that will fight over turf. This will be the legacy we bequeath to our posterity if George Bush and Teddy Kennedy pass their "American Genocide Act of 2007."

Is the destruction of the United States of America really worth the dime you saved on your last head of lettuce? Would you trade your country for a cheap carwash? Are your teenage children so privileged that they can't be required to mow the lawn or help with the housework like we did when we were their age?

If Americans are willing to surrender their country just so some greedy robber barons and rich elites can have their virtual slaves on your dime, then what are we doing sending our sons and daughters to Iraq for anyway? Why not just send up the white flag there, too?

Rusing along
Now we are worried about being able to read bills. Of course this has to do with immigartaion not the constitution so we need to read this one but passing the Patriot Act in the same way was a good idea.
Listening and reading the comments I don't see any solution. All make comments that we can't expect the government to handle anything right, we know they can't find and deport all the illegals in this country. They refuse to really close the border and they refuse to enforce already existing laws. Earlier during the immigrant protests area Tyson chicken plants closed on that day because they would have no workers. Does this sound like a company that doesn't know who they are hiring ?

Will
I don't know if you watch the market or not, but with a full year left in Clinton's sham the indicaters were there to show the market and the economy was going soft so please let me pass on his record.

BAN
THAT SHOULD READ BAN SPAM

steve
i see steve is back to spam.since no one cares about his blog or opinion he trolls popular sites for vistims of his weak thinking.

STEVE, IF YOU WERE ANY GOOD, YOU WOULD NOT NEED TO USE OTHER PEOPLE'S SITES TO TROLL FOR VICTIMS.

TOWNHALL SHOULD AN SPAM. THIS IS FOR DEBATE, NOT SPAM

Tell me why
any illegal alien would want to participate in any of this. They can continue w/their work (we know there will be no consquences) live in the shadows, keep their $5000, speak Spanish (as the signs they carry) continue to receive benefits that they may well lose if they become tax-paying citizens. This argument is among people who are making rules but not going to participate personally, and only an alien who's a fool would have any part of it. Are the street demonstrators telling us they want to be tax-paying citizens, or just that they want to stay here collecting benefits w/out being bothered?

What do you say to this idea???
The following plan seems to be a sensible plan to me...what do you think????

a) Defend the border...use technology, hire more border patrol agents, build the wall...do whatever it takes to stop people from crossing the border.

b) Allow ALL illegals to register with the government. Give them TWO years to work...but they must leave after TWO years. (This will allow employers a chance to replace them with Americans, legal immigrants, or guest workers.)

c) Give all these illegals a biometric card upon registration. No Biometric card...no work.

d) Impose heavy fines and jail employers for hiring illegals.

e) Deport ALL illegals who do NOT have a biometric ID.

f) Illegals who DO sign up and work will be allowed to register to become citizens or guest workers AFTER they leave the country. Those who are caught NOT signing up will be deported. If they return somehow through our border..they will be jailed.

g) NO SCHOOL, NO MEDICAL SERVICE, NO SOCIAL SERVICES unless the illegal has a biometric ID.


The good parts about this...the illegals DEPORT themselves over time. If they want to work, they must sign-up. They DO NOT get a path to citizenship until AFTER they leave the country. Businesses will not lose their labor.

Yeah, I know many illegals will still hang around without signing up...but sooner or later, they will have to come forward to work. The key is workplace enforcement and the tamperproof ID. I like it because they must leave. Other than getting a two year grace period, they are not given any special priveges.

This isn't perfect either, but what do you think about the broad strokes painted here?

(R) Election voting-credits:
For every illegal alien a Republican grants amnesty, one Republican voter should either sit out or vote other.

BrianR
The nplague and locusts have already hit and they are called POLITICIANS.
I read somewhere that each phone call represents a certain number of votes. I say we really light 'em up. I've already put all my local and national reps on notice, that if they support this bill I will never support them and I will do whatever it takes to pull votes away from them.

Tana: Bingo!
I always laugh at the dunderheads who think that somehow illegals will EVER end up voting for conservatives.

Yeah, maybe Republicans, as the GOP becomes ever-more indistinguishable fronm the Democrats. But, then, that's not really the issue, is it?

You are on the money here, Tana!


Exercising my Second Amendment Rights
Until a couple of months ago the only firearm I possessed was one that I keep in my families cabin in Northern Michigan.

Our elected officials could care less about the laws they pass as they can afford private security for them and their heirs, as they legislate national suicide.

I have signed the family up for firearms training and have joined Gun Owners of America a sI beleive the NRA is a democratic party controlled government front that does more to deny our second amendment rights than any starbuck sippin looney San Franciscoan could ever imagine.

It is evident the government could care less about our security so it is left up to me and mine. I suggest you face the music and do the same.

Cal: LOL
And I thought I was cynical!

Well, when can we expect the plagues and locusts?


Actually, Brian
BrianR writes:
"Gently99: Hmmm......
I wonder what the odds are of a Biblical plague striking DC?"

Actually, Washington has been overrun with rats and vermin for several years.



Gently99: Hmmm......
I wonder what the odds are of a Biblical plague striking DC?


Can't say I'd shed any tears.

Eastlake Joe
Joe, you are exactly right.

I have been going over my favorite Mencken quotes, and this one covers our government quite well, I think.

----------

"The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office.
H. L. Mencken
US editor (1880 - 1956)

Lolo, BrianR
Yup. Heads must roll, vote the rascals out. This bill reveals the total contempt and misfeasance of 90% of the DC recreants. If the voters are informed and riled enough to understand how they have been sold out, so that a 50% vice 95% re-election rate is achieved, the SOB's will straighten out for a couple years. Don't think of term limits -- limit terms, on general principles. Power corrupts, and we are watching the actions of men who have succumbed. Someone said he'd rather be governed by the first 100 names in any phone book. I now agree. If the voters, left and right, stand for this garbage, it really is goodbye. Sorry Ben, we couldn't keep it.

Make Your Voice Heard!
June 14th; 15th; & 16th. A National Rally to stop this maddness. http://www.lframerica.com

Cal
Don't be so surprised, When was the last time the politicians ever truly represented the majority of the people? I don't have to be a fortune teller to predict that is one aspest that will never change no matter who you get in office. They ALL vote for their own special interests!

Lolo: Yup
.

MyOpine
I really wouldn't want to have blood spill, but I'm so fired up about this bill my blood is just boiling. I agree that we must organize. A national strike might just do the trick to stop this from being rammed down our throats. Congress and the Pres must think we're sheep that must be lead by their superior intelect, unfortunatlly they are leading us over the cliff.

How can the Pay-Go Congress
Under the Pay-Go rule, how can they pass a bill without fiscal analysis?


BrianR
They can scrap this bill and make a tougher one and it still won't get enforced unless we march on Washington and vote these idiots out. The fat cats in Washington and their corporate coharts in crime want this cheap slave labor and they want you to pay for it. It doesn't matter whether they have a D or R after their name. they also want to get re-elected any way possible so they can continue their Feinstein like back door deals. So they will do what it takes and that means raking you over the coals and mugging your paycheck.

The 2 biggest Crisis in the world
According to the liberal media and our government, the two biggest crisis of our time are "Comprehensive immigration reform" and "Global Warming" and the only solution that they can come up with for either of them is to ruin our economy, our culture, and our future.

And the shame of the whole thing is that the concept of man caused global warming is nothing but meadow muffins, and immigration reform as proposed will do nothing but benefit certain service industries and labor unions in this country at the expense of the economy for the rest of us.

-------------

"We must respect the other fellow's religion,but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart. "
H. L. Mencken

lilly
I'll take the Heritage Foundations brains over your lack of brains any day. I cannot even believe you posted that stupid comment. As to the loyalty comment it's clear you do not know how the Beltway operates or you would know just exactly how many cronies Clinton appointed along with evry other politician in America from the lowest to the highest. Even your locasl mayor appoints cronies.

That should have been "lolo", not "LOL"
.

LOL: Right
How much of the 1986 Simpson-Mazzoli law was ever enforced? Exactly one thing: amnesty.

Exactly what we can expect this time.




KYJurisDoctor
Big difference between a fence that runs along a border basically out in the middle of no man's land, and a wall that runs smack dab through the middle of a city. Come out of the land of drama. When was the last time you were at the border and actually had to look at it? A wall will not only pay for itself but it will save lives on both sides of the border. However, if I were you, I wouldn't waste sleep over it since it isn't going to get built.

The scary thing is that
A majority of Americans are really opposed to this, but yet a majority of our congressmen are h-e-ll bent on putting it in place

Check this out
Get this: ICE would have ONE DAY to process clearance requests, and the default would be to grant applications unless ICE issued a hold. ONE DAY! They take coffee breaks longer than that!

poll of adults
Polls of adults include the opinions of the 10+ percent of the population who are illegal immigrants. Those polls are bogus.

The only polls that even come close on this issue are ones with a very tight likely voter screen. Those tend to show a strong opposition to illegal immigration.

It is about time the MSM and thier pollsters were honest with the American people instead of spreading propoganda to support the MSM agenda.

Immigration!
I do NOT particularly think building a "Berlin wall" type of fence is the answer to illegal immigration, though it could help some. The REAL solution lies elsewhere: Assessing HUGE penalties against those who employ illegal aliens and not rewarding the illegals' law breaking with repeated (every few years) offerings of "amnesty" IS the key to a FINAL solution to the immigration problem.

http://OsiSpeaks.com or http://OsiSpeaks.org

Sick and tired
I am so bloody sick and tired of lying politicians that I wouldn't trust ANY one of them half as far as I could throw them.

When is CONgress going to pass the first PRO-American bill since Reagan? I have seen nothing but anti-American twaddle be signed into law since Reagan left office.What happened to the "Compassionate Conservative" (blatantly stolen from Michael Savage) we heard so much about during Bush's first campaign? GWB wouldn't make a hair on a conservative's butt. He's nothing more than a flaming liberal and, damn it, I voted for this jackass (for cripe's sake, when the filter nixes a word try to do it in context!) TWICE.

This trash bill will be the downfall of America and Bush's legacy will be the downfall of our great Nation.

Just think about how much America has changed since you were a child. I can remember when America was the penultimate nation in the world. Everyone in other countries either wanted to live in America or destroy America. Well, Bush is attempting to make it so that at least one country (Mexico) can do both. Is anyone here fooled by the weaselly worded abortion they call a bill? I have read what is on "Thomas" and I am NOT amused by these congress critters and their attempt to slip this crap by us.

I'll be back later, this has me too ticked off to remain conversant on a family site.

MO, Dollface
MO: Well, the American Communist Litigation Union strikes again, and no surprise. On the merits of the case as outlined in the article, I don't think they have a leg to stand on. At a traffic stop, if you come back as having a warrant for a fed crime, or you're a suspect in a bank robbery (a fed crime) do they just tip their hat and wish you a nice day? I don't think so.

During the North Hollywood Bank of America shootout, did the LAPD just direct traffic while they waited for the FBI to come and shoot it out with the robbers? Not as I recall.

Doolface: I LIKE it!

BrianR
I agree. Deporting all the illegal aliens would be the best policy. I would take it one step further, though. I would deport them to the capital city of the country they came from, not just across the border so they can come in again.
Put their names and identity information(fingerprints, photographs, etc) into a data base and if they ever apply for a visa to get here legally, we then bill them for the airline ticket and interest at usurious rates(I would suggest a simple 2-3% interest per month on the unpaid balance).

largecaliber
If we could raise enough men for the bullet box to be affective we could stage a bloodless National Strike where women could join in and help.

A National Strike held by demonstrating on freeways & arterial traffic lanes would shut the Nation down and no taxes are earned during that time.

They do this in Europe and Japan and it works.
It takes a lot of organizing though.

Inflation
I would look for the government to start printing money like Monopoly Money to pay for this and all of Al Gore's stuff.

McCain-Kennedy Amnesty Bill
All I know is that if a bill has McCain's or Kennedy's name on it, it is bad for the country. This bill has both. In this case, two negatives do not make it positive.

thinker
Yes I to see congress's middle finger, however, I don't think they will see my trigger finger because it will be hidden by the trigger guard.

BrianR
Your soultion raises another little problem I wish America had an answer for;
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51658

As I've written on the other columns
on this issue, let's deport them all, all 12 million of them.

First of all, just because you can't capture every lawbreaker doesn't mean you simply give them all amnesty. How about murderers and robbers? We don't get all of them, either.


As to rounding up the ones we can: Every time they show up at the emergency room, put 'em on a bus back south. Kids in school? Bus 'em south. They're grouping together for another of their street demonstrations? ICE rounds 'em up and puts 'em on the bus south. Raids like the one in Arkansas. No more "catch and release". Enforce the 1986 law and give their employers jail time. Stopped for a traffic violation, jail and deport 'em. This is the only law on the books that isn't enforced when you're stopped for a ticket; see what happens if you have an outstanding warrant. Check the status of all the day workers hanging around the hardware store.

Pretty soon, you'll have rounded up a LOT of them, and made the environment so hostile they'll start self-deporting.

Sounds pretty effective to me.



Further, click my name to read my totally on-topic essay "The Bush Legacy".

Shameless blog plug, because I'm here legally!

YES, Congress, i see your middle finger
SECURE THE BORDER????
HOW CAN WE SECURE 2,000 miles border with 370 mile fence????????????????
Illegals will walk around it like we walk around a pile of sh*t on the road.....
Elected gods still think we are total idiots!
Just remember:
crossing the border illegally - a federal crime
falsifying documents - a felony
I would like to pay $5,000 fine and not to pay taxes for several years.
WHO REPRESENTS US?
USA -RIP - 1776-2010.
(signed/buried in Waco, TX, March 23, 2005)

A hidden cost?
No one wants to talk about this cost.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52091

With a drastic increase in violent crime we can expect a hue & cry from anti-gun Democrats to disarm honest Americans and make us all helpless victims.

Has anyone considered the cost in human suffering?
There are consequences to importing all of Mexico's dangerous criminals and many Americans will pay the price in blood!
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51424

Wedge Issue
Further examination of the RAS poll numbers indicate that a solid majority of independents and half of the Dems support enforcement first.

This is perhaps the best wedge issue we have. Zvisa McCain is shafting the party with his Kennedy immigration bill.

War On Drugs
Drivebyposting is half right; the war on drugs is a motivator. If we put every intoxicant known to man in a real drug store, like a liquor store, the problem would go away.

Those opposed to this idea will claim that we'd have a nation of junkies and more people DUI. But they can't prove that. We tried prohibiting alcohol and got the exact same situation we have now: a black market that drives up prices to the point that gansters are willing to face death and inflict death to realize the profits. Alcohol dealers, on the other hand, don't settle disputes with guns; they settle disputes in court. Stiffer penalties for drunk driving (loss of license and jail time) have reduced the incidence of drunk driving; and in Scandinavian countries the laws are even more stringent and there is a much lower incidence of drunk driving. So, stiff laws and vigorous enforcement of DUI will take care of that. Same holds true for giving drugs to minors (like they can't get drugs anywhere anytime now).

But making employers or landlords verify the citizenship of employee or renters puts an extra burden -- which is the role of law enforcement not the private sector -- on every small business, and further reduces its ability to compete. Employers need their employee’s social security numbers to properly file their withholding, so if they are complying with the law on that score, they’re covered. If the employee has a bogus or stolen SSN, that’s a law enforcement issue. If businessmen are paying people off the books, that’s also a law enforcement issue – and I’ll wage the IRS and the Justice Department are more of a threat than the INS.

Supply and demand works both ways: if someone dumps a bushel of dollar bills in the street, most of us will scoop some because they’re there; no dollar bills on the street, no scooping. The problem is that the illegal has more to gain than to lose by being here, and until that equation changes, they will continue to come. We need to cut off their access to social services and deport them at every chance. That will up the stakes.

The problem we have is that existing laws are not being enforced. We don't need new laws that also won't get enforced. In the meantime, we need the fence to stop the flow. We need to drive by every garden center and seven eleven in the country with Paddy wagons, round up the illegals, and drive straight to the border. Rewarded behavior gets repeated. We need to stop rewarding this behavior.

typos
sorry about the typos. Should read goodbye, and record not Reagan.

America
Goddbye Sweet America it was good while it lasted. For the Reagan stop blaming Reagan for this mess. Reagan caved on the amnesty issue with the promise that the border would be enforced along with the labor laws. Who made the promise and renigued? The lovely Democratic Congress. No surprise there.

RAS poll
The latest RAS poll has a very solid majority demanding enforcement first. Amnasty is not very popular. This poll is probably a more accurate picture of the situation among voters than the MSM polls of adults.

Romney has made a move up to 15%, only 3 behind McCain. The data were gathered before the immigration furor started. The RAS poll tends to not show big moves up or down, it is not a volitile poll. I am waiting to see what happens to Romney's numbers in the MSM polls.

Both Romney has pulled ahead of McCain in the odds in Vegas.

Tasmania
Property values look nice, and short of stopping the world so I can get off, Tasmania will probably get me as far from the newest third world sewer as it is possible to get. Yes, friends, there are dire consequences to putting Democrats back in power

Hollow wars
Well, here we are, 2007, and we've made no progress in the war on drugs.

Immigration is closely tied to the war on drugs in many ways, philosophical and otherwise.

We want illegal drugs and the Mexicans are more than happy to supply the demand.

We want illegal aliens and the Mexicans are more than happy to supply the demand.

It's pathetic really. Every hardware store, every Orchard Supply, every Home Depot, every Walmart has a bunch of illegal aliens hanging out in the parking lots.

People in cities all across California are writing into their governments and newspapers asking local police to just round these people up and ship them back.

Corporations want illegal aliens. Rich Americans want nannies and house help.

The common philosophical problem with the war on drugs and illegal immigration is that the "fix" is to try and cut off supply.

Americans need to quit hiring illegals.

You can drive by any farm you care to in California and find nothing but illegals working in the fields.

It's not the fence. It's not the supply. It's the demand. Until we cut off demand and force corporations and people to quit hiring illegals no fence will ever be effective.


The first step in immigration reform must be to cut off demand. We need to shut down every business that hires illegal aliens.

Until the demand is dealt with all immigration reform is hollow.


Aussies
In 1970 australia had a process in effect due to the war that offered land and legal immigration to skilled people that the countryt needed only. If you didn't have a skill that the country needed, the only thing you could do is go through normal channels and that could take quite a while. Sounds like a reasonable plan but only if there is a proven need. The best thing would be to change it to read FOR LEAGAL IMMIGRATION you need a skill that the nation is in dire need of.

Couple of Thoughts
If the Heritage Foundation's numbers are even close, they suggest that a key motivator for illegal immigrants is the entitlements they appear to be getting. I struggle to imagine how they consume more than $30K per household; however, even if it's half that, we should insist that our entitlements be spent only on citizens: If you can't prove you're a citizen, you don't get social services. Attach penalties, like fraud, for applying and accepting entitlements if you’re not a citizen. That takes the issue out of INS's hands and into Justice’s or the IRS's hands. Maybe that will help.

I also believe enacting the FairTax, which sends a pre-bate to Citizens only, will even the playing field. If illegals are forced to pay their fair share at the cash register and cannot get the pre-bate, there is yet another disincentive to stay.

I object to the government making businesses provide law enforcement functions. Employers should be paying social security and Medicare for their employees, which they obviously can't do without a social security number. But I don't believe it's the employer's job to verify that the SSN is in the hands of the right person. That's also a law enforcement function. If someone is using a stolen or bogus SSN, an alarm should go off somewhere.

I also think that the idea of deporting the illegals is too costly is a bogus argument. It can't cost as much as $30K per household. I'm guessing a bus ride from Anchorage to Tijuana can't be more than $500, especially if it's an armed, non-stop (except for refueling) ride.

I recommend everyone email their legislators and inform them that they will be out of a job if this legislation passes.

And finally, the idea of the Republican Party dissolving is a good one. The fiscal conservatives of a libertarian leaning might finally join the Libertarian Party, and the social conservatives can start the Anti-Abortion party.

GreenCard
Maybe someone should dress up as a green card and follow the Zvisa (McCain) campaign around? You know like Flip the Dolphin.

Lessons
Yes, but for pandering, the Republicans might have held onto a majority in the House and the Senate. On the bright side it appears they have learned their lesson, NOT.

Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell, I'll take their pledge as gospel, NOT AGAIN.


Steve
Shame on you!

Steve-alternative
The best alternative is to wait until the fence is built and we get a new Rep President who understands immigration and will enforce it.

If we get a Dem President we lose the green card provisions of the current bill and some merit points but it would have to pass a filibuster first.

We can afford to wait on immigration. This issue cuts into the Dems who get on the wrong side of it. It cuts across party lines and is the best wedge issue we have.

McCain is trying to destroy it as a wedge issue and screw the Republicans as usual.

Enforcement
Unless the fence is built first and the immigration service can clearly indicate that it can stop the flow of illegal immigration there is little reason to pass an expensive comprehensive immigration bill.

The timing is wrong. The new legislation has no credibililty since it weakens provisions for solving the primary problem, which is stopping the flow of illegal immigration. Until this Administration can demonstate that it can control the borders (competency) it is not in a position to propose sweeping new concessions and changes.

The net effect of this current bill is an attempt to legalize the mess that we have now. What we have now is no enforcement.

If the government can't enforce the border now why would they be able to enforce it later?

Goverment
The rot and stench of goverment continues.

Rush bills through to act as if they are doing something. Try to get anything done with a goverment bureaucrat and your stomach will turn.

They only collect paychecks. They do not care for the people who pay, the taxpayers.

Another consideration
Carpenter discusses the $2.4 trillion it will cost for the illegals who are already here.

How many more will there be, and how much more will it cost, twenty years from now when we have to do this AGAIN because the feds are once again promising if we just give these people amnesty they will start enforcing the law?

We know they won't. We know they lie.

It is believed that members of La Raza were "consulted" in drafting this bill. La Raza's stated purpose is to reclaim several southwestern states for Mexico. In essence, those who drafted this bill conspired with our enemies.

If this bill passes every Congressman and Senator who voted for it should be charged with sedition. Ditto President Bush.

We don't have to wait for the next election if we charge our reps with sedition. And we don't need the cooperation of their colleagues in the Congress. Their 'trial' will not be before a jury of other pols, it will be before a jury of the people; the same people they are now betraying.

Even if we can't jail all of them, just putting a couple of them on trial might be a wake-up call to the rest of them.

I suggest we start with Ted Kennedy.

ideas to send to Congress

You can all reach your people in Congress right here at their official sites:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

Heck, contact LOTS of them in Congress!
NOW is the time for all good Americans to speak out-- while there is still an America to save!
As information, here is my letter I have just sent...

[note: credit is owed to Congressman Ron Paul for the basis of the outline below.]
_____________________________________________

Dear Committee on the Judiciary:

We would like to share our letter to Senator McCain with the Judiciary Committee since the relevant issues are under your auspices. We believe that this is BY FAR the MOST IMPORTANT CHALLENGE FACING AMERICA.

Thank you for considering our views. We hope that your Committee will put the best interests of America ahead of the self-aggrandizing desires of limited interest groups. We will be watching your decisions with GREAT interest.
_______________________________________________

Dear Senator McCain:

While we agree with you on some key subjects philosophically, there is one issue
where we DISAGREE PROFOUNDLY: your support of ILLEGAL aliens. If you are to have ANY HOPE of winning the Oval Office, you need to change course on this according to 68% of the voting public:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back906.html

As a border state senator, you must be acutely aware of the problems these lawbreaking interlopers cause-- see the recent referenda issues passed in Az. which antithetically oppose the concepts of Kennedy--McCain Amnesty.

We know that the Senate is poised to debate Immigration reform and would like to share our summary thoughts. We understand the pressures you face and hope that you will not again cave to the pressures of the special interests when the very
future of America is at stake. We agree with the following overview goals:

Border Security and Immigration Reform

We must secure our borders NOW. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. Potential terrorists can dance across our soft underbelly border
or overstay visas.

1. We should FIRST physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country BEFORE we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals... no more Simpson-Mazzoli Scamnesty shell game reforms. Only willful neglect by our government could have allowed this crisis to devolve.

2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays his/her visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired
visas. A tamper-proof I.D. may be necessary for all NON-citizens to function while VISITING America TEMPORARILY-- to work, get a license, rent an apartment, go to college, seek emergency assistance, pass go, etc.

3. NO AMNESTY-- PERIOD. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are already in our country ILLEGALLY. Border crashing is only the first of what become lives of serial lawbreaking. There should be NO PATH TO CITIZENSHIP for those who have been here ILLEGALLY. It is a farce to speak of paying a token fine and back taxes when each ILLEGAL alien household is costing taxpayers $22k annually in deficit taxes versus social services used alone (Heritage).

4. No welfare for ILLEGAL aliens. Americans have welcomed LEGAL immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. BUT taxpayers should not pay for ILLEGAL immigrants who decimate hospitals, enervate schools, roads, and social services, and permeate illegitimacy, crime, drugs, gangs, and ethnocentric barrio balkanization. Public financial assistance for higher education for non-citizens should be prohibited.

5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong. We need to reinterpret the 14th Amendment as it was intended.

6. Pass TRUE immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal
immigrants from all countries should face the SAME rules and waiting periods.

We should emphasize EDUCATED, SKILLED immigrants who can make positive contributions, NOT chain migration of those who become net users of government services-- like most ILLEGAL aliens. America cannot be the lifeboat to all of the world's less fortunate, lest the boat founder for all.

Thank you for considering our views, and thank you for your service to America.

Whats left to be said?
The same arguments over and over, dressed up, changes nothing.

Crime is being promoted by the very people elected to protect the rights of American Citizens.

The ONLY ones this Bill has NOTHING IN IT FOR(US Citizens) BUT RAPE, ROBBERY, THEFT AND A COMING WAR WITH CLASH OF CULTURES ABD LAW.

If we the citizens do not stop this, America is gone forever as we have come to know this Land.


Meet the new boss
For years we had to listen to Harry Reid and his fellows in the "Democratic Leadership" complain about how the Republicans were running the Senate. Now we see how Harry does it:

Scheduling debate on unfinished bills.
Debating bills you intend to replace with other bills when the time to vote arrives.
Bypassing the regular committee process to push a bill no one supports in full.

And for this they earn $168K+ a year?

And the Alternative?
And the alternative is? Well, there is no alternative unfortunately. Here's what I wrote today on my very popular ("thanks Mom, come back again) blog:

If the Republican Party came out foursquare against the proposed legislation, it might just offend the 78% of Americans who support something like the proposal. Think so? Well, yeah. Here's what I wrote this a.m. about the legislation. Disagree if you wish, but please no more hate mail.

Note: Tuesday, Jack Kelly (cited on Sunday as a supporter of the Immigration Reform Legislation) informed me today that he is no longer backing the measure as proposed. He said "the devil is in the details," and he thinks the details are not good. Here's how I responded to Jack, a wonderful conservative columnist who should be regularly on TH -- but isn't for some unknown reason:

Jack: I like the proposal better than you do. In that regard, I regularly cite Alexander the Great. "The weak (Republicans) give what they must. The strong (Democrats) take what they wish."

I think this is the best we can get, hopefully with some modifications on enforcement. The alternative is for Hillary and Nancy to write the next bill. In the meantime, we could limp along with the present "policy."

There are 40 million Hispanics (legally) in the U.S. now. If we lose that vote -- as we've lost the Blacks and the women professionals -- we are cooked, and our views on immigration will become even more irrelevant than they are now.

In 1960, Richard Nixon got 32% of the Black vote. If Republicans were still doing that, you and I could run for Pres. and V-P and win big. We're still doing pretty well with white males, but not so well with anyone else.

It's good that Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams faithfully vote Republican. Maybe next election we can double their numbers -- from two to four.

As I say, it's like being at a Single's Bar after midnight: Angelina Jolie, Jennifer Hewitt, and Kiran Chetry are no longer available, so you look for the next best option. (I haven't been to a Single's Bar since 1985, but I do remember them.) :-)




Wake-up call
I think Harry "Run Away!" Reid got a wake-up call from the American people.

Reid has so much contempt for the American people that he thought no one would notice that his "Immigration Reform" bill would fly under the radar over to the House which would rubber stamp it and send it to Bush, who's standing by , ready to sign it.

Fortunately, the American people, aided by almost universal internet access and 24-hour news channels, weren't fooled for a nanosecond.

Read the bill (S.1348) on THOMAS and you'll notice things like Sec. 131(a) which EXEMPTS Mexican nationals from apprehension.

As Amanda Carpenter pointed out, it isn't even a real piece of legislation. Yet, Harry "Retreat" Reid wanted a vote by the end of the week.

Reid is the worst kind of coward, and stupid, too.


Ragnar
While I agree with you in theory, I have paid into social security for twenty five years or more. Why should I have to forfit what I have paid in? If you want to reform the welfare system then I agree with you.I know of families that are on second and THIRD generations of welfare and the people are just as able to work as I am and better. My own mother paid into social security for about 50 years and retired as a waitress. the only income she has right now is a small retirement from my father and social security. Without it I don't know how she would live. The fact is, she paid it in with the promise it would be there for her. Why shouldn't she collect?

Easy Solution
Get rid of welfare. End Social Security, Medicare and other entitlement programs. Then illegal immigrants wouldn't cost us a thing (or at least a lot less). Moreover, the unproductive ones would have far less incentive to come here.

Pointguard
It already is costing us billions in the programs you state and also higher prices for health care as the hospitals try to make up for the emergency room bills they leave behind and don't pay. Health care is going up at a pace that far out distances inflation and we are the ones who have to make up for it.

compelling images?

[e-mail to the major media]

To: Selected National Media

re: ILLEGAL "immigration"-- compelling images?

Larry King had a guest panel discussing ILLEGAL immigration tonight. At the end of the program, a latino offered a bowl of fruit allegedly picked by ILLEGAL aliens as an example of their contribution to America-- "doing those jobs Americans won't do."

In closing, Larry King turned to Congressman Duncan Hunter and asked if he would like to comment on that image. Congressman Hunter said, "Yeah Larry-- we recently visited a Swift Meat plant where a raid had caught 800 ILLEGAL aliens-- Swift replaced them immediately with Americans who GOT THEIR JOBS BACK."

Analysis:
Among the myriad myths perpetrated by the self-aggrandizing apologists for ILLEGAL aliens, this myth of doing jobs otherwise undone is especially egregious and unctuous. Miscreant employers do milk the "cheaper" labor, BUT the EMPLOYERS pocket the savings-- the end product/service is very little cheaper in price, if any... then American TAXPAYERS and society bear the substantial concomitant costs pandemically associated with undereducated, indigent, ILLEGAL aliens-- e.g., crimes, drugs, gangs, dropouts, illegitimacies, decimated schools and enervated social service delivery systems, balkanization, and barrio blight.

Furthermore, ILLEGALS ARE displacing Americans in quite a lot of jobs as they and their miscreant employers break our laws, including dodging taxes. Some might call the burglar who breaks into a home an "uninvited guest," but putting lipstick on the pig does not lessen the crime. We would be FAR BETTER SERVED as a society and economy if employers hired LEGAL workers at fair wages.


College Professor
Business and Economics
Atlanta, Ga.

Lilly
Are you suggesting that it WON'T cost American taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars in Social Security, Medicare, education, healthcare, etc.??

Could we please set up a system where liberals like Lilly pay for the cost of illegal immigration (since she seems to support the idea), while the rest of us who support controlled immigration and the rule of law can keep our money??

There are BILLIONS of poor people from all over the world that wish to be American citizens. Should we allow ALL of them into the US in an uncontrolled manner? Of course not! But then why are Mexicans given special consideration?

Lilly, you are looking at this problem from the POV of what is best for the illegal immigrants, while most of us on the conservative side are thinking of what is best for AMERICA.

The Legacy of George W. Bush

If he gets his amnesty, he will be remembered as the last Republican President. The GOP will go the way of the Whigs and whatever party arises to replace it will never dislodge the Democrat majority, thanks to his stupidity of importing voters for the Democrats. He may go down in history as the man who simultaneously destroyed his party and his country. Of course that would be in the underground English language history books. The official Spanish language history books will laud him as the man who delivered El Norte to La Raza. (the Race in English)

Kennedy & Immigration
Why are so many republicans lining up with Ted Kennedy? This guy authored the 1965 disaster that made this mess possible, he stuck his nose in the 1986 amnesty and now he's pushing this one. Just because he wants cheaper busboys,dishwashers and landscapers up in Cape Cod, does that mean we all have to suffer?

Blame
After saturdays bust here in Painesville Oh. the hispanics are crying that they have kids who came here so young that they have no memory of living in Mexico and that would put a hardship on the kids. While the kids are the only ones I have any feelings for, as they are being used as pawns by both the parents and the government, I would tell them to look at their parents as the ones putting them in harms way. If they hadn't brought them here illegally, they wouldn' be worrying now. I'm tired of the libs using them to try and make anyone who wants our immigration laws followed feel somehow ashamed.

OOOOH YEAH
As a libertarian I love watching the DEMS and REPS battle over whos going to get cheap labor
(REPS) and whos going to get the voters(DEMS).
What we need in this country is a third party
(AMERICA). How conveniate it is that everytime
that an immigration bill comes up that the DEMS
warload (TED hick-up KENNEDY) is involve and
also his buddy MACAIN. these two are a disgrace
to this country for trying to sneak a bill like
this past the AMERICAN PEOPLE.

The only reason it won't pass
There are some Demoncrats who think it's too harsh on illegals. Those like momma Nancy who think they shouldn't have to pay any fine. Whenever a bill passes the House and Senate it goes to a commitee to work out the differences my hope is the differences between the two versions will be too great to work out.

Any bill that makes it to Bush's desk will get signed because he, like his daddy, wants to merge the continent into one country.

I just can't believe....
I just can't believe that this is happening. Our political class - both scumbag parties- is selling our nation out for some perceived voting bloc that they think will keep them in power forever. But when our country goes completely bankrupt and the "balkanization" of society takes hold, and the seething hatred between tax-PAYERS and tax- USURPERS, English speakers and non-English speakers, etc., begins to cause violent confrontation, it won't matter who the heck is voting for who!

You can't give out so much entitlement to such an undeserving few (12 million few?) and expect there to not be severe animosity that will fester like a boil, exploding in violence and anger.

This is very bad for the future of America.

Don't see it passing
I don't see it passing as more research is carried out, but when "President" Pelosi is saying no to this bill too, then the key is the Dem leadership is splintered, and if that's the case, I see no chance of passage.

Each Iraqi family is costing us $50K
a Year in Military, emergency military and humanitary funding...$50K a year in U.S. tax dollars per Iraqi household and they don't pay a cent in U.S. taxes...

So if all it takes to change is point out excess spending, let's apply it all the way around. BTW, can you break out the non biased Heritage Foundations WMD like "facts?"

When I look at the Federal Tax dollars spent vs. tax dollars paid by State and the trends, the worst States at taking and not giving back are the typical Southern States except for New Mexico and Alaska #1 and #2 since 1981. Not sure how bad the Illegal issue is in Alaska, but I know New Mexico spends far more per capita for Veterans and Indian Medical Care.

Yet States with the largest "illegal" populations like Texas and Cali pay more taxes than they take. Texas was trending WAY up under Ronnie, but the per capita number has since leveled to 1987 levels.

Arizona does rank 19th among States, no different than 1981, if it were a rampant problem it should trend up shouldn't it?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/ftsbs-timeseries-20060316.pdf

Virginia Patriot
Having a sitting President who is not loyal the the US does not permit them from passing legislature to hurt you and me. When was the last time you can say, honestly, that the President had America's best interests in mind? You say it's not baby Bush os how about Clinton, the UN puppet who was in bed with China. Bush Sr. with NAFTA, even good ol' Ronald did amnesty. Carter I will believe until the day I day hates America. How far back do you really have to go to find a President that had the best interest of the nation in mind?

The '08 field looks just as bad. Constitution haters Giuliani and Clinton are the front runners with extreme socialists Edwards and Obama as the other "contenders" on one side and government growers Romney and McCain round out the leaders. The only way I vote in '08 is if Tancredo, Hunter, or Paul are on the ballot. No one else cares about securing our borders or protecting this once great nation.

Every provision in this bill weakens legislature that is already passed. Bills have already been passed to increase the border patrol to 20K, this lowers that number to 18k, it decreases the length of the fence that was approved last year, and it grants amnesty on top of that.

The Republican party turned it's back on conservatism a long time ago, with a few exceptions such as Tom Coburn, Tancredo, and Hunter the party is dominated by liberal-minded people like Bush, McCain, Romney, Giuliani. Expanding government is not a conservative value!

So Sad
It's very sad day for America. I'm internally shaking to witness what conspiring elected servants (of the people) are doing to our wonderful nation. We will all suffer for these evil designs for many years. It is causing so much contention, I can't even look at others as they walk pass me.

On a lighter note, I like the idea of each American paying taxes, opts out for the $5000

AB in LA

Not as long as Bush is President

We should not undertake any immigration reform until after another Presidential election. This President has shown his loyalties are not to American citizens on this issue. Personally, I believe we need Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement, not reform. We have the laws, what we don't have is any enforcement. Without enforcement, laws are meaningless.

This new package will be no different than 1986. The borders could have and should have been secured September 12, 2001. But that would have disrupted the cheap labor express and the RNC could not disappoint its contributors. So the problem has doubled as enforcement went from inadequate under Clinton to nonexistent under Bush. Now they will try to jam another amnesty down our throats. The question remains, will we let them?


Who actually believes the President has any intention of building a fence? How will we enforce new laws when we won't enforce current laws? Will the people breaking current law comply with any new law? What will we do if they don't?
Who actually believes, that when George W. Bush delivers on his promises to citizens of other countries illegally in our country, that they will vote Republican? Another amnesty will result in Democrat majorities for decades. How stupid do you have to be to import voters for the opposition at the same time you alienate your own voters? If the GOP surrenders our sovereignty and abandons the rule of law, they may find in November 2008, that they still have their big money/cheap labor donors, but they do not have voters. GOP-RIP


excellent
Great column, keep up the good work!

No taxes for thee, but taxes for me
Gee, wonder if the feds would say it's ok for me to pay a $5,000 fine instead of my taxes? Why is it I doubt they would give me, just an ordinary citizen, that kind of deal.

This is frightening
In a way i am glad this bill was brought up, but not because I support it. I don't really think any American citizen can support a bill this wacky. I am glad because it has exposed this Senate for what it is. How frightening is it that any legislation would be presented by way of tactics such as placeholder bills and substitute ammendments? How bizzare is it that debate would be held based on working drafts and not proposed bills. At least this is about a contoversial subject like immigration, so this was brought to light. Can you imagine what other insanity this Senate may try to railroad through? They have clearly decided that the concept of a government by, for and of the people is outdated. There is a reason we got rid of the King back in 1776, this is it.

Heritage Foundation
I believe it was on FOX on Monday evening that I heard that the "cost of trillions" projection comes from The Heritage Foundation. That would be the same Heritage Foundation that in January of 2001 sent the new President Bush a detailed policy recommendation stating that when making federal appointments he should consider expertise less important than political loyalty. You can read the paper for yourself: google "Taking Control of Federal Personnel". Considering the outcome of that recommendation (think of Katrina, Iraq reconstruction, and Monica Goodling) we might fairly question the judgment and credibility of The Heritage Foundation.

Great Column Amanda!
And right on the money!

Immigration and Repub Futures
I just commented on another thread (the Law of the Sea Treaty), etc and the same comment goes here. I have already quit contributing to conservative causes, and if this treaty, or anything remotely like it is passed, I will be spending as much time, and money as possible outside the US. Maybe I can finance a few trips overseas for my grandchildren. You may conclude, erroneously, that I dislike foreigners, especially Hispanics. Not so, I have traveled extensively in Latin America, and helped one legal alien, a very nice lady, become a US citizen. No, what we are seeing is the final destruction of what used to be known as American exceptionalism. It's just too painful to watch, and voting at that point is futile. I'll just vote with my feet.

Amnesty Cloture Choked, Debate Dangles,
Amnesty Cloture Choked, Debate Dangles, and Power Brokers Tap-Dance

Much to the chagrin of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, (D) NV, the Senate Power Brokers, and the White House, the push for Cloture by tonight and compromise by Friday is now no closer than June, if at all.

Carefully finding his words and trying not to show defeat of the arrogant power play; "It would be to the best interests of the Senate ... that we not try to finish this bill this week," said Reid, (D) NV, as the chamber began debate on the volatile issue. "I think we could, but I'm afraid the conclusion wouldn't be anything that anyone wanted."

The offices of US Senators including Sen. Reid’s offices were clogged with phone calls, faxes, emails in a groundswell of opposition to this most recent attempt to hoodwink the US public with a fast push and shuffle of the so-called Immigration Reform program. The Senate deal crafted by Liberal Senator Kennedy (D) MA and the once embraced as a Conservative Senator Jon Kyl, (R) AZ; now said by vast portions of the US public as easily seen through as an Amnesty program, custom made for illegal aliens being allowed to stay in the US or return to the US to work cheaply on a Z Visa.

Though there appears many different reasons by Republican and Democrats, Conservative and Liberals alike to not want this latest boondoggle, it is obvious that the absence of real cost projections on this legislative effort that could easily top the cost of the Great Society programs of President Lyndon B. Johnson (D) TX that swelled the public welfare roles to millions and expenses to taxpayers in the Billions of Dollars.

There is growing evidence of organized labor siding with taxpayers on this effort to block unwanted entry of illegal aliens coming by the millions to take the jobs of America’s workforce. Although with unions at a historical low-point in membership, the very thought of swelling membership with newly arriving unskilled laborers by forsaking multi-generation union worker families is not as attractive as once thought by the liberal DEM & GOP politicians who are pushing the Amnesty deal.

The basic principles of enforcing US laws to prevent unwanted illegal aliens, protecting lawful citizens, securing borders and preserving language and culture are among the topics of frustration and anger by millions of Americans who have earned their place in America’s structure, history and future. Even first generation immigrants are speaking of the unfairness of all these lawbreakers coming in and now instead of deportation are facing full pardons and jobs and welfare and the promises of citizenship, never having earned it lawfully like the immigrants before them.

With the Amnesty Cloture Choked and Debate Dangling for a time in June, watch and listen over the next few weeks as the old song and dance routine takes place.

Richard G. Shuster (from Rick’s Random Ramblings, Amnesty Cloture Choked, Debate Dangles, and Power Brokers Tap-Dance)

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