Tuesday, January 09, 2007
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Schwarzenegger Plans to Strong-Arm Everyone Into Crappy Health Care
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Posted by:
Mary Katharine Ham at
10:54 AM
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This sounds like a bad idea in so many ways.
Schwarzenegger's plan, which he publicly unveiled at noon, would require employers with 10 workers or more to buy insurance for their workers or pay a fee of 4% of their payroll into a program to help provide coverage for the uninsured.
Schwarzenegger would tax doctors 2% of their gross revenue and place a 4% tax on hospitals. He campaigned for reelection on an anti-tax platform, but his administration argues that so many more people would have insurance that medical providers would make more money.
Tax on employers, tax on doctors, tax on hospitals. I particularly like the tax on businesses, which incentivizes them to stay under 10 employees. That'll help job creation.
The governor also wants to ban insurers from refusing to offer coverage to some individuals because of their prior medical conditions. Insurers would also have to spend at least 85% of their premium revenues on patient care, a move that would limit the amount companies spend on administrative costs and profits.
Two basic parts of the insurance business model out the window. The OC Register: "If you think premiums are high today when carriers can avoid high-risk customers, you haven't seen anything yet."
In an effort to cover all Californian children, including ones in the state illegally, Schwarzenegger's plan would expand the state's Healthy Families program, providing insurance to children whose parents make less than three times the poverty level. That works out to about $60,000 for a family of four.
A state health care program, paid for by you, to serve illegals. That oughtta go over well. Anyone remember Prop. 187? Also, note government assistance for anyone making less than three times the poverty level.
And Schwarzenegger said his plan would require every Californian to have health insurance.
"If you can't afford it, the state will help you buy it," he said, "but you must be insured."
More mandates and more taxes! OC: "Sadly, the governor's solution piles on more of what created the health care mess in the first place: government mandates, government-imposed costs and government regulations, which all artificially restrict the market, drive up costs and, ultimately, limit medical care, rather than expand it."
Schwarzenegger called the delivery and payment of healthcare in California "disastrous," noting that nearly 1 in 5 residents is uninsured.
"The problem with that is, of course, that the rest of the people who have insurance pay for them," said the governor. "Those that are fortunate enough to have coverage — we are paying a hidden tax."
Now, we're going un-hide the tax and lower the quality of your health care. Sound good? Capt. Ed doesn't think so:
One needs only look at the incentives to see what will happen with his proposal. Health care providers will decline, since taxes provide a disincentive to the market; doctors will find other venues in which to practice, and the best will capture the most lucrative economic positions, none of which will now be in California.
Small businesses, which will have to start paying an additional 4% of their payroll if they employ 10 or more people, will simply work hard to avoid that cap -- perhaps by outsourcing some of their functions to services in other states, which will expand to meet the market demand. Otherwise, small businesses will have to raise prices to cover the additional cost, which will make them less competitive than larger businesses and force more of them out of business altogether. That will result in inflationary pressure and a drop in employment, which will force taxpayers to spend even more money to insure the uninsured.
Kip Esquire dubs it a "war on physicians:"
How insane does one have to be in order to believe that the way to increase the supply of a scarce resource is by taxing the very people who are providing it?
Apparently Schwarzenegger is borrowing a page from the Michael Bloomberg book and hoping that living in California is so irresistible (i.e., that demand is so inelastic) that physicians, nurses and other health care professionals won't simply pack up and leave the state, no matter how impossible the health care socialists make it to function there. Recent evidence suggests otherwise.
Kevin M.D. agrees that docs won't like it.
Predictably, it's not enough for the Left, even at $12 billion:
Many aspects of the Governor's plan are praiseworthy, but the individual mandate and the plan's tax breaks for the wealthy should be rejected by the legislature. These proposed measures come shortly after the Governor called for deep cuts to welfare that will impact children. Shifting spending from the basic needs of poor children while handing out tax breaks to the wealthy is cynical politics and poor public policy.
Crush the health care system by taxing those who provide health care! Do it for the children!
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It's an improvement on the mess that exsists, where the taxpayers get shellacked bailing out hospitals when MILLIONS of people without health care don't or can't pay the bills that they incur. Better that everybody has to pitch in something and get coverage. Do you have a better idea? |
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Portable health care not tied to an employer, an emphasis on HSAs and catastrophic coverage for the young and healthy, transparency of medical pricing so that consumers can make wise decisions and providers have to compete for them, the same tax preferences for an individual providing his own insurance as for a company providing it to employers, allowing out-of-state purchase of health care so states have to compete with each other and governments are forced to lower mandates. Those are a few to start with. They're certainly more creative and effective than the old stand-by-- feelgood socialism that makes everyone equally sick in the end. More regulation, more mandates, and more government involvement have been proven time and time again to lower the level of health care for everyone. |
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how folks could oppose these is beyond my comprehension.
"More regulation, more mandates, and more government involvement have been proven time and time again to lower the level of health care for everyone."
What was it Reagan said? "Government is not the answer to the problem. Government is the problem." Truer words were never spoken. |
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This should also of course be a boon for undocumented workers since this is where more small businesses will probably turn to get around the 10 employee limit. |
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The author wrote: "... I particularly like the tax on businesses, which incentivizes them to stay under 10 employees. That'll help job creation..."
>>
It might not stifle job creation, though. It may just shift employers from employing to contracting. Hire, say, 3 management and 5 administrative personnel. Then contract the rest of your work out to 1099 contractors.
Sounds like a winner! The employer doesn't hafta offer benefits... the workers hafta get their own insurance coverage *AND* shoulder the entire Payroll Tax burder... no paid leave... no paid sick-days... no paid vacations...
Yep. Sure sounds like a boon for both the employer and the workers. /sarcasm |
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than not insuring illegals. Currently, illegals go to the emergency room when they get so sick that they need immediate treatment. And the hospitals (and therefore everybody else who goes to the hospital) foots the bill. If a visit to a regular doctor prevents a minor condition or sickness from becoming serious, everybody saves money. The lower the acuity level, the fewer resources are required for treatment.
I'm not going to comment about the other aspects of the Governator's proposal, I just haven't researched it enough.
But let me agree with Mary Katharine: HSA compatible high deductible plans ROCK! It has worked out very well for my family. |
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Why doesn't the State of California invoice the home country of origin for all the people we will end up treating. Arnold can then play "enforcer" and show up in his terminator costume to collect. Or better yet - invoice the federation government since illegal immigration is technical their responsibility? |
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“Under Mr. Schwarzenegger's plan, all Californians would be required to have insurance, although the poorest would be subsidized. Businesses with 10 or more employees would have to offer insurance to their workers or pay 4 percent of their payroll into a state fund. Smaller businesses would be exempt….”
…OK…then form a new business for each department of the company that grows to nine employees. It would be cheaper ($150.00 one time cost) to form the new business than pay the annual four percent growth penalty tax on payroll.
When will politicians finally realize that small business people are smarter than they are?
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So if this "hidden tax" will now be visible and wiped out by this splendid new program, I can expect a big fat state tax refund once the program is in place (offset by the cost of the new program), right? I won't be standing by the mailbox. Something tells me I'll continue paying the "hidden tax" and pay the new additional taxes for this program as well, of which I'm sure there will be plenty as small businesses adjust.
And since it is such a great idea to provide the coverage to illegal aliens, we should expand this program to the federal level to cover all the children in Mexico. That way when they eventually come across the border it will cost us less in the long run, right?
What a great idea about taxing doctors and hospitals too! We could apply that to all kinds of people. Maybe tax bus drivers for every mile they drive to pay for the roads, or lifeguards for every rescue they make to pay for beaches -- the possibilities are endless!
Have to run. Need to figure out where I'm moving to!
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have softened his brain. All that STADOL in the IV....probably still in a drug haze....
This will pass.
Just like a bad kidney stone.
Please GOD, let it pass.
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So, Arnie is going to tax the healthcare providers,force employers to provide insurance to their children...er..employees, and foist upon insurance companies greater risk and greater costs, while dictating to them how thay can allocate their expenses.
Arnie whould have stayed in Austria where there's a precedent for Fascism.
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This sounds typical. Is Schwarzenegger really a Republican?
In a 1990 U.S. News interview Schwarzenegger was quoted as saying "My relationship to power and authority is that I'm all for it. People need somebody to watch over them. Ninety-five percent of the people in the world need to be told what to do and how to behave."
Thanks a lot Arnie but WE can take care of ourselves. |
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This is socialism pur and simple and if Arnold and the state Democrats get their way, it will open the door further for the Democrats in D.C. to nationalize, that is, socialize health care in our nation - a very poor version of the health care we all enjoy in this country today, my god evel illegal aliens enjoy greater health care here than in the lands they come from. It is the dream of the Democrats to build a Socialist Utopia in the United States brick by brick; and sadly there are enough people wanting soemthing for nothing, a free ride, and to bring down anyone daring to succeed that over time America will become another socialist state; and they will have the arrogance to believe they can do what every other socialist country has failed to do - provide liberty and economic progress for the people. Yet, strangely enough like in the old Soviet Uniion and every socialist state throughout history, the political leaders never seem to suffer the economic deprivations of the masses. |
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Right, sounds good doesn’t it?
” Socialized Medicine”?
If so, why doesn’t anyone fly to Sweden for that serious operation? Oh probably because you can’t sue for malpractice here in Sweden.
The future that the left wants so badly is already here. Take a look at Sweden 2007 before dooming the US to the same fate in 2008. As an ex-patriot I can report that no one trusts medical services here in Sweden, the Left’s utopia . Everyone teaches themselves about every illness, to second guess what the doctor says, offer alternative diagnosis, because 3 out if 4 times the doctors either don’t know or simply charge you for unnecessary medicine. Don’t bother if the doctor guesses wrong here, they take no responsibility. That is the beauty of socialized medicine: it belongs to everyone, so no one is responsible for it.
You have to change your whole mindset about expectations, professionalism, moral courage, all the wonderful parts that make the US special, when you get involved in big social (less individual) institutions. Those institutions have no respect for the individual, and it is just in medicine that such respect is fundamental.
If you disagree I welcome you to research socialized medicine first hand in Sweden.
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for following the advice of Hugh and others and choosing an "electable" but not truly conservative Republican. I greatly respect Hugh Hewitt, but felt he was wrong in this case, and this confirms it. This tells me that my instinct to support McClintock after the recall was right all along. Its too bad we have now 2 parties in California who are socialist and don't have an alternative when something like this comes along. I wonder if Republicans in the assembly will stand up and try to fight this? I also wonder if national Republicans will try to elect a "centrist" for broad appeal as well. |
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forget taxing the health care providers. Why doesn't California simply tax all the actors, including himself? That would pay for a lot of free health care...and most of the liberal Hollywood elite will be so happy to help those in need, yes? |
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...and wasn't part of the elite that is protected by the rampant corruption, I would be getting ready to relocate illegally into California. Free schooling and discounts for college! Health insurance largely paid for by "somebody else." Amnesty!
What will this proposal do for the rate of illegal aliens flocking into California?
Day by day, my wife and I are more and more open to following our friends and fleeing California, even though we were born and raised here. |
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The insurance business model involves weeding out high-risk customers, people with previous conditions? And this is a good thing? In health care, the first goal should be providing care and profits should come at a distant, distant second.
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I haven't really seen Hugh address his overly strong support for Arnold in the recall, at the expense of actual conservatives, now that Arnold has done the predictable and become a big-government liberal.
Were this a one-off, I would give Hugh the benefit of the doubt, but he tends to do this often, (i.e., toe the party line even against conservative principals).
While I like his writing, I think he should come out with a mea culpa and not go this road again (i.e., worry about winning at the expense of conservatism - when this thing is a huge disaster in CA, it will be a huge disaster that can be hung around the CA GOP's neck).
- GB |
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teachergonz wrote: "The insurance business model involves weeding out high-risk customers, people with previous conditions? And this is a good thing? In health care, the first goal should be providing care and profits should come at a distant, distant second."
That's the opinion of the type of person who believes food, clothing, medicine, etc. spring fully-formed from the magical ground, and the people charging for them are the greedy orcs who prevent those good things from flying in his window and meeting his needs for free.
Somebody needs to take him by the hand and explain, as I did to my THREE YEAR OLD, that all these good things -- food, clothing, medicine, etc -- get produced because people work to provide them, and the people who do the work deserve to be paid for their service to us.
YES, gonz, insurance companies weeding out high-risk clients IS a good thing. A VERY VERY good thing.
Think this through with me:
Thirty people in your neighborhood decide to pool their money to cover medical costs for each other, so nobody gets wiped out by a disaster. Then you get a new neighbor. He skydives, he's a professional mercenary, he does bare-knuckle boxing for a hobby, his family has a history of cancer, and to boot, he's got AIDS. If he joins your neighborhood pool, it's a lead-pipe cinch that the medical pool will be drained dry in a heartbeat, and NOBODY will have their medical costs covered.
Fair?
An insurance company is nothing more or less than that neighborhood pool on a large scale. Their "greedy" practice of avoiding high-risk members is actually responsible protection of the society at large. Without it, NOBODY gets coverage; and that's what's going to happen in California, if Ahnold gets his way. |
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how about the novel idea that illeagal aliens are here illeagaly and dont deserve a damn thing from american tax payers,throw them out of the country and secure that border and fine illeagal employers plus jail time ,arm the guard with arrest power and the right to shoot if threatened and this whole problem can be solved it just takes the will to do it , if politicians would get there heads out of there azzes and stop worrying about votes from illeagals and there supporters and do what the law requires and protect our country with laws that we have to stop this invasion. and stop letting corperate america dictate if we are to secure the border,they will just have to forgo greed and pay americans a living wage to do the work they require. |
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Okay. I understand that. Everybody understands that. Your 3 year old understood that before you explained it to him. Of course Cali is a pretty big neighborhood. Part of the beauty of the insurance system (aside from the profits, which I hear are pretty rad), is that risk gets minimized through the pool. A whole bunch of very wealthy people (they're called Americans) just might be able to pay for the costs of the relatively few who are sick. Who are also paying, btw. But my real question to you is this: What should the pre-sicks do about paying their bills? Should they pay out of pocket? Should they hope their HSAs pay for it? Should they just give up the idea of getting better, managing their illness, or what have you? As you're formulating your answer, just remember this: most everyone will get sick some day. |
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Isn't Aghnie's wife a relative of the stauchest American supporter of Hitler (and/or Naziism) - Joe Kennedy? |
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Great idea. These vapid, limousine liberals are always the first ones to say we should be paying more taxes. So let them. Or better still, let them build hospitals and fund them 100%.
That's if they can take the time off in between divorces. |
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says i,ll be back,well with ideas like health care for illeagal aliens he needs to go back to austria, ahhh yes ahhnold you ahhr an idiot,time to leave cali -fornia. |
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I am sure that this sounds like hyperbole to a liberal, but I honestly believe America is dying a slow death due to liberalism.
I agree that all Americans (let me stress that, AMERICANS!!!) should have an equal opportunity.
But liberals no longer want an equal opportunity...no, now they want equal pay, equal healthcare, equal everything, for everyone, regardless of the choices that people make in their lives, regardless of whether or not they are indeed Americans.
And before I am branded a racist, know that I don't expect Mexico to pay for my health insurance or for my education and even if I moved there, I can't see that I would ever expect something from them.
Let's take a look at our beloved liberal policies. Hmmm, our educational system is garbage, and the more we spend, the worse it seems to get. Don't believe me? No Child Left Behind has had minimal success and costs a fortune. I can tell you that it has created layers after layers of more beauracracy, tons of waste, and many frustrated teachers and administrators (who ironically are mostly liberals!!).
They hate the program because it doesn't work well.
We need competition and responsibilty (from parents and students) to fix public ed.
What other government controlled ideas work? Hmm..the USPS is a pretty efficient, isn't it?
Public transportation? No waste there!! Ha!
So now California and other places want Socialized Medicine for everyone, including people who came to California illegally.
I hope they try it. It won't work, but maybe it will show the rest of the states that socialism NEVER works.
If these liberals want such a socialist Utopia, why don't they just go to Cuba. The government there takes care of everybody in fine fashion!! |
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There are a lot of similarities to the proposals Romney, a current darling of the conservatives for the republican presidential race in 2008, signed off on last year.
All I can say is at least these 2 governors are tying to do something about the mess health care is in.
HSA's may be part of the answer for young people who are healthy, but they are not going to be affordable for the elderly, really sick, or people with very sick children who have a lot of medical expenses.
Sure the uninsured and illegals are part of the problem. They can't be turned away from emergency rooms so that is where they go to get their care and that is the absolute MOST expensive way to deliver it to them. And we who do buy insurance pay for it.
Everyone hates managed care, whether its insurance companies or government that does the managing. Not only that it is inefficient because insurance companies spend too much money on administrative costs.
Everyone thinks they can handle medical expenses themselves when they are healthy. They are in for a rude shock when they find out they or a loved one has a disease or accident that requires surgery, high tech treatments, hospital stays or all three. Any event like this will cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Most people, even with six figure incomes don't have easy access to that kind of money. And if they do it wipes them out or at least all their savings. If they have a second event they lose their ability to go back to their jobs they will become paupers.
We are stuck with the fact that there are 3 fundamental aspects to Health Care :
1) the investment in technology and quality of care (there is essentially no upper limit on how much society can invest and still get results that some people feel are worth the cost)
2) the availability people have to access the best technology and care. Every one wants the best when they or their loved ones are ill, but not everyone lives near the great clinics & doctors or and its expensive to give them access. We can wring our hands all we want about individual responsibility but doctors and hospitals are not going to let the uninsured and illegals die when they can be "fixed" by a visit to an emergency room that the government or hospital pays for.
3) the cost of the care and drugs and who pays them (the individual, governments, employers, or all these folks)
As someone has said before, society can make a reasonable attempt to control any 2 of these factors, but then the other will run amok and be uncontrollable.
If you look at it that way, the debate is over which 2 of the above factors society is going to try to control. Whether you are liberal or conservative you still can control only two. Voters in different states can make different choices. California and Massachusetts have made their choices. Its going to be interesting. |
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I agree with a previous post - the surgery must have rattled Arnold's brain.
I am tired of illegals getting a better deal than my own California born children. We have insurance but it's not the best. I still pay $45 per doctor visit. My prescription insurance only covers generics. But it's better than nothing.
Arnold needs to get a clue. The majority of Californian's don't want this. We are tired of illegal aliens getting insurance, scholarships and other perks that my kids don't get. It's wrong. This needs to stop - all over the country, not just in California!!! |
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