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Rudy was giving examples of people who make comments rather than make decisions. He cited Matthews as one of those. He was making the point that it is people like Matthews, et. al, who are paid to comment. Congress is paid to make decisions. Why is everyone seemingly intentionally missing that point? |
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Okay - now I'm mad!
...Rudy DID NOT SAY CHRIS MATTHEWS WAS A GOOD PUNDIT!....he was merely giving example of pundits giving their opinions...and that was the equivalent of congress voting on non-binding resolution!
Dean you are such a good guy...and I love Hugh..and folks on this blog are usually so thoughtful...but everybody is jumping on Rudy for something he DID NOT SAY...you may have done it unitntentionally...but you have mislead people as to what Rudy said re: Chris Matthew. You need to correct the record..I was there |
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Dean,
I was there too at C-PAC...Rudy was giving examples of what pundits do...he said Chris Matthews was a pundit...not a good pundit...I was sitting very close..my hearing can't be that bad??? |
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Thank you so much for the heads up. Terrific speech. Republican voters still can decide this. We can nominate Hunter. Money only buys elections when people act like sheep. If 80% are indeed seeking a conservative, they can nominate one. The money players won't like it and are trying to convince us only the Rudy, Romney, or McCain can win. Hogwash. 49% of people will never vote for Hillary. Only 60% voted last time and turnout was the difference. My belief is Rudy would push turnout down. There might even be a third party, splitting the vote. Give Americans a chance to vote for a candidate who WILL secure the border and watch what happens to turnout. Americans want their government to fulfill it's most basic responsibility.
The primary responsibility of the U.S. government is to protect the territorial integrity and people of this country. They have completely abdicated this responsibility. Both parties have been complicit in this. We are being told it is not possible to control our borders, enforce our laws, and thereby control our destiny as a nation. Hogwash. We are being sold out by corporations intent on importing workers for jobs that can't be exported with the taxpayers paying the true costs, financial and human. If we act like sheep and don't stop the inundation across our borders, we will lose our country without a bleat. |
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Thank you for the joust and fun. But for a bit I'll be absent.
My wife and I are off to Fort Bragg, Ca and the surrounding area for R and R.
Be well. |
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Thank you. I have enjoyed reading your posts and exchanging ideas with you.
And now my wife and I are off to Fort Bragg, Ca and the surrounding area for R and R.
Be well. |
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Bush won twice, and he's quite the moderate...in fact kind of liberal on some issues.
Maybe you say he fooled us in 2000, but he won again in 2004 after never exercising the veto on spending bills?...after his education bill?
Maybe your thesis should be amended to "moderates can't win unless they're an incumbent."
Nixon was a moderate...two terms, elected by large margins.
And if moderates can't win, how do LIBERALS even get elected AT ALL?!
That said, I submit a small minority on this board prefer electing moderates. 80% or more of the people here want a conservative...but as Rush said this morning "you can't pull them out of thin air." If our choice is Rudy or Obama, then GUESS WHAT, I'm voting for Rudy. If the choice is Mitt or Hillary, I'm sure as hell going to vote for Mitt. I'd LOVE to be able to vote for Hunter, who I love and respect, but if he can't compete financially in this election then he'll be gone by Super Tuesday and that's just a brutal reality.
Hugh is right on this -- who ever comes out most credible on the War on Terror is going to win the White House. They may also be a moderate, but some battles are more important to fight right now than others. |
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before i leave the keyboard... i'd rather have 30 Santorums than 51 McCains representing me in the Senate. |
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»What's with all the liberals on this board?«
I, for one, am not threatened by it. They give us the very increased opportunity proudly to parade conservative values all up in their faces. |
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Using recent history as a guide, republicans who ran for president as moderates, (or center/left) have not done well. The last moderate republican to win big was Richard Nixon. Gerald Ford ran as a moderate in 1976 which caused the party to split, giving us Ronald Reagan and the Reagan revolution.
In 1988 GH Bush ran as a conservative (primarily on Reagan's coattails). Then in 1992, Bush had a record which he was forced to defend, which included raising taxes and the nomination of liberal David Souter. Bush lost.
In 1994 the republicans ran a national campaign during the congressional elections which used "conservative" issues as the sales pitch. The republicans took over congress for the first time in 40 years.
In 1996 Bob Dole ran as a moderate republican,(which included a mean spirited speech aimed at Pat Buchanon during the 96 convention). Bob Dole lost in a landslide.
In 2000 GW Bush ran as a compassionate conservative using themes like cutting taxes, conservative judges, and prolife issues. Bush won.
The point is, if republicans want to repeat history and lose, we can nominate a left of center candidate like Rudy Giuliani. Rudy's 9/11 media image might win him the nomination, but it won't help him attract social/economic conservatives in the general who want the size and scope of government reduced, not increased.
The 2008 republican primary is starting to have many similarities to the 1976 election. The establishment center/left want Giuliani (just as they supported Ford in 1976). The conservatives countered with Reagan. The result was a split which didn't heal until 1980. Leading into 2008 there already is a considerable fracture within the party which has developed over the last few years. A Giuliani nomination will cause a complete split in 2008 just as in 1976.
The real question leading into 2008 is who will carry the conservative mantle which Ronald Reagan carried in 1976 ? Romney ? Gingrich ? Hunter ? Nancy Reagan ?
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is how we got where we are today - out of power, rife with corruption. it's how we got McCain-Feingold, record pork spending, and the white-flag resolution. A RINO is worse than a Dem to me, because the RINO stops a real conservative from arguing his view. i'd rather walk the desert knowing my principles were intact than sacrifice my soul for a crown.
but not all moderate republicans are RINOs, just the left-wingers.
now fess up, have you guys ever listened to Hugh's show? |
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Interesting, although the majority of the Republican Party is center right I do believe that there has been and is a place for center left members.
If a candidate runs as a center left republican against a far left D is that a rino?
If the candidate does not mislead his/er position or sell them self as a right wing conservative and is honest with the voters is that a rino?
The R party is not solely owned by the far right, at least not the last time I looked.
Wasn’t it President Reagan who had the 70% rule?
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Thanks for that. Now can you tell me where it's written that all Republicans must be conservative? Can you also point to evidence that a conservative can win in Rhode Island or Maine? Can you also tell me why John McCain "bear[s] none of the distinctive traits of conservatives"?
Also, do you consider George Bush a RINO? If Giuliani's kind words for Chris Matthews raise a red flag, does Bush's frequent praise for Bill Clinton raise similar flags? |
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Republican
In
Name
Only
n., politician who runs as a Republican, despite bearing none of the distinctive traits of conservatives (eg. Lincoln Chafee, Olympia Snowe, John McCain, etc).
and let me tell you, shouting out Chris Matthews is a RINO RED FLAG that indicates Giuliani is totally out of touch with the conservative movement. calling Chris Matthews anything other than a seditious traitor is very alarming.
i hate to hammer at Giuliani because he's a likeable guy. but being the feel-good guy from the 90s boom and 9/11 doesn't cut it going into the most important election ever. we need to get past these false choices being conjured by the MSM machine |
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I never said one word about your handle; my most recent post was on the topic of Arnold. Meanwhile, instead of engaging in intelligent debate or addressing the points I've raised, you are the one hurling personal insults: "RINO," "fraud," "troll." |
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Rudy gave lavish praise to Ruth Ginsburg as someone he respects and likes as a justice which shows he is Liberal.
[Reasons] to disagree:
1 41 Republican senators voted to Ginsburg and so she can't be that bad.
[Reason] to disagree witht that!
1. There is a vast difference between voting to confirm someone to be a chief justice and praising them. Republicans for years have been saying that the president deserves to appoint whomever they want. |
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A sure sign that one cannot advance an intelligent debate is when a poster engages is name calling and personal insults. Conrad's recent post is a prime example. I really don't care what Conrad, or anyone else, thinks of my handle. But if you do, go for it.
As for the trolls on this site who continue to pump up the candidacy of Rudy Giuliani, thats fine. Its a free country and each of you are entitled to support whomever you want. But for those of you who support liberals like Rudy on this forum, which is essentially a center/right political blog, rest assured we will expose the liberals who claim to be born again "republicans".
God bless you all. |
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Jeez! I'm assuming (yes, I know the first three letters) we're all in this to win in 2008. Let's allow the players to play at this stage. Candidate bashing inside the Party is dumb. Do we want to act like a bunch of Kosites? We're at the beginning of a long campaign. Beating up opponents to our respective favorites only offers the lefty/liberals ammunition, not unlike what they give to the Islamofascists.
Think Feb 2008. |
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What's with all the liberals on this board? Why do all you even care what the Republicans and Conservatives do during the primary season? |
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"Let's have some excellent blog reporting on this harpie's speech."
...be that at it may, her "rantings" are well-footnoted, which is more than can be said about..say...JIMMY CARTER. I think Anne attracts more voters to her cause than Jimmy does.
THAT SAID, she is harsh...(admittedly there is a nauty side of me that sometimes laughs at some of the things she says)...the rest of me understands that a lot of it is over the top and uncivil.
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I'd have missed that, now I won't. Thank you.
Hector: agreed |
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Let me correct myself: After re-thinking my previous post, maybe Coulter was brought on as some type of circus-style freak show entertainment. My bad! |
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...how's you knowledge of literature?
Do you remember "To Kill a Mockingbird"?
Atticus fashions himself as someone who fights "losing battles."
But I am sure he thinks he represents reason and morality.
I am not taking a side in the dispute, I just think his choice of user-name is interesting. |
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Me. Barnett, sadly, didn't mention that, apparently, female manque Ann Coulter speechified, and also endorsed Mitt!
Additionally, she evidently alluded to John Edwards as being a homosexual! Is that really true, Dean? Let's have some excellent blog reporting on this harpie's speech.
She adds so much to the Mitt's luster, and I hope she soon starts doing commercials for him. No one will attract voters to his cause like your adorable Annie! |
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Given Arnold's long-standing reputation as a moderate-to-liberal Republican and given the left-leaning nature of California politics, anyone who voted for Arnold expecting him to govern from the far right should be kicking himself.
It seems to me the term RINO is more about angry, perhaps self-hating voters than it is about the politicians. |
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All I'm getting from you is that you consider yourself a Republican, you disagree with Rudy, so therefore he cannot be a Republican.
As far as Ginsburg goes, I assume you'll be taking the issue up, as well, with the 41 Republican senators who voted to confirm her in 1993. |
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Rudy may have lost me on this one.. Other than the war on Islamo-facists, my main issue is liberal media bias.
CHRIS MATTHEWS? That drooling commie is satan in this house.
Ugghh!! |
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Governor Arnold ran during the special election against Gray Davis. In that campaign, Arnold supported a fence on the border, cutting taxes, reducing the size of government. He did so because his challenger, Tom McClintock was a real conservative with a record. Arnold won by stealing McClintock's issues. but once in office Arnold morphed into the second coming of Ted Kennedy. To claim Arnold is a RINO is putting it nicely. Better description would be a fraud. |
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Rudy Giuliani is now claiming to be a supporter of conservative judges in the mold of Roberts, Alito, Scalia. Obviously, he is saying that to win over conservatives. Yet, just a few years ago Rudy gave lavish praise to Ruth Ginsburg as someone he respects and likes as a justice.
Sorry, but if Rudy campaigns honestly this year, he will have to admit why he supported Mario Cuomo for governor. That should be good theater.... |
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The Giuliani "fad" has been around since at least 2001. I don't see it ending anytime soon. However, twenty months is a long time to keep a 20% point lead. But I would think that the more candidates drop out, the more they will tell their supporters to back Rudy
It's so funny. Conservatives loved Rudy at the Republican National Convention in 2004, yet loath him today. Well, at least the conservatives that aren't keeping an open mind on the up-coming election.
I think we all need to remember that the nominating process will be for the Republican Party, not for the Conservative Party.
For all the campaigning Rudy did for conservative Republicans during 2002, 2004 and 2006, anyone who calls themself a conservative has the obligation to at least give Giuliani respect. |
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Has Arnold ever called himself a conservative? Has Bill O'Reilly? If not, then your definition of a RINO holds no water. |
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A RINO is someone who campaigns as a conservative in order to get elected. But once elected, his nose at the conservatives who put him in office.
RINO's are rampant within the republican party and the media today. Governor Arnold is RINO, as is Bill O'Riley, just to name a few.
But if Rudy were to become the republican nominee, he would become the new posterboy for RINO's all across America. |
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OK, then, let's apply that standard to Rudy Giuliani. In his mayoral campaigns, did he ever run as a conservative? Not that I know of. The more important question is whether he fulfilled the program on which he ran. If he did that -- and I believe he did -- then we have to take him as a man of his word and believe that, if elected president, he would govern as he promises. |
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A RINO is someone who campaigns as a conservative in order to get elected. But once elected his nose at the conservatives who put him in office. |
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What exactly is a RINO? Anyone who doesn't agree with you or your definition of a Republican and/or conservative?
Please enlighten me. |
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Rudy Giuliani is the current fad of the month. As the campaign heats up, voters will learn more about the former mayor. And once they do, they will find that Giuliani has more in common with Hillary Clinton than with the base of the republican party.
Guiliani will have alot of explaining to do on various issues. For example, why did Guiliani support liberal Mario Cuomo for governor over moderate George Pataki ? And why did Rudy Guiliani praise justice Ruth Ginsburg as someone he thinks is a good justice ? Last, but not least, if the Clinton campaign targets Guiliani, don't you think they will raise the issue that Rudy lived with two homosexual after his divorce ?
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I posted this same comment in another thread...wrong place for it.
Anyways, I heard on the Phil Valentine show that Rove actually told Duncan Hunter to "stay away" from the White House. That's a good sign, I'd say. |
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BTW Dean, Patrick Ruffini says you are "misguided". I don't want to start a fight but.... |
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Hunter CPAC speech to air on C-SPAN Fri. 3-2-07, at 8PM EST.
If people would like to get to know him better...
I am from San Diego; he's one of our Congress people; and I can testify his performance in that role has been first-rate. |
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That is a very close second. Hopefully it won't be the only time he scores that high. I think George Will's column a while back did him a lot of good.
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Hunter got 110 in the straw poll in S.C. to Rudy's 123, very close second. There are many conservatives who do not want to be herded into supporting a northeast liberal. If one more person refers to Rudy as conservative, I'm gonna lose my lunch. Baaaah, we need to get behind Rudy, baaaah. |
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Stop obsessing over Chris Matthews. It's sad that's the only thing someone can get out of a speech. And, apparently, you must have seen a different speech since most of what I've read so far from conservative bloggers is that Rudy was great and the packed crowd was indeed interested.
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Did you hear Laura on him this morning? He compared Bill Clinton to Jesus.
YIKES!
WHAT A FREAK! |
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ugh put this RINO out of his misery already |
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Dean - I'm sure glad you warned us of your Romneyist bias .... otherwise nobody could ever tell from your remarks on Rudy's speech at CPAC!
As I understand it, many of the nation's conservative bloggers have characterized the annual CPAC hoo-haw as a veritable lions den of hostility into which Rudy was to enter - much like Daniel - expecting to be consumed by the flames of purist conservative anger at the Head RINO of NYC for even daring to show up.
If Rudy indeed put'em all asleep, as you say, wasn't that pretty much what Daniel did? And wasn't that was considered a historic ... no, even better than historic .. yea ... BIBLICAL, moral victory?
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Sorry to hear that he came off as wooden. I really like Brownback, but there's a lot he lacks...God bless him though. |
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I think I'll join Virginia Patriot in promoting this ticket.
Very glad Hunter was No.2 at cpac. Good sign... |
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I can understand changing your mind on one important issue, but Romney has flip-flopped on too many issues to be taken seriously. As a resident of Mass., I know all too well that he didn't exactly get the state's budget in order, either. He didn't raise taxes but he increased fees greatly across the board. Fees=taxes, no matter how you want to slice it. Dean, stop drinking the Kool-Aid and find someone who sticks by his/her principles, at least for a few years. |
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Definitely deserves a look. He's very good.
Antonella Barba is very bad. |
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...is not very good; too bad she did not get booted yesterday even though the two that the boot also deserved to go.
I haven't decided on a candidate yet, but I'm not turned off by educated and constructive comments.
So, go right ahead Dean. If you can be unbiased and balanced with respect to the Red Sox, sitting smack dab in the middle of Red Sox nation, then I trust you to be balanced where the presidential candidates are concerned. ha |
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Now there's a guy who puts you to sleep - He was over prepared and sounded wooden and stiff. He is not a great speaker. I'll take Rudy's style over his any day. |
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I know it goes against the declaration of the bloghost that the race is over, but my man Duncan Hunter finished second, ahead of both McCain and Romney in the SC straw poll. Why aren't conservatives taking him seriously? He deserves a look. |
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I know it goes against the declaration of the bloghost that the race is over, but my man Duncan Hunter finished second, ahead of both McCain and Romney in the SC straw poll. Why aren't conservatives taking him seriously? He deserves a look. |
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So Captains Quartes is liveblogging the EXACT SAME SPEECH- and says that the audience was enraptured, that every person in the hall was watching the monitors and was interested until the end.
And you state that it was 'boring' and demonstrated Rudy's weaknesses.
Naw, can't be that you are a tad biased?
How many items will Mitt flip on between the end of his speech today and Friday of next week? |
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