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Pretty weak. Now you're flapping about how accomplished Bush and Hugh are--as if that were some kind of justification (hey, look at everything Jesse Jackson has done). But I'll have you know that when Briggsy is not posting to Townhall, he is working on a cure for cancer, tinkering with his soon-to-be-released perpetual motion machine, or anonymously delivering cash gifts to financially distressed single-parent households. It may be nothing so elevated as hosting a right-wing talk show, but in his own small way, Briggsy is trying to make a difference. |
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Because I cannot got to Iraq and fight I am not allowed to support the War. Does that mean that I cannot support the Dodgers since I cannot play in the game. Like they would really want a 43 yr old over weight out of shape office worker runnning the streets of Iraq with weapons. We have a volunteer army. People are good at different things ( and if you look at the statistics the military really is a cross section of America). Each group (racial and economic) are represented by about the same precentages as they are represented overall in America. This meme that it is only the poor kids fighting is a straw man. I had many friends in the early 80's in college that were ROTC ( and they were not poor they were middle class Americans like most people). |
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lefties with their massive egos...
What have they done with their lives?
HH has a radio show that people pay to sponsor.
Dubya ran a company, bought a baseball team, got elected Governor of Texas and President of the USA.
Who is Briggsy? Wgo is frank23185? Who is Tensorfield?
What credibility to they have? As far as we know, they are unmarried, unemployed, dropped out of school, and still live in their parent's basement...
Heck, that was me (in 1980).
If these geniuses think they know a better way, let's see some of them get elected to important jobs in their community. Let's see them go on the radio and attract sponsors (i.e., other than relatives). Let's see them express original ideas about how to solve current issues, NOT JUST WHINGE ABOUT BUSH.
Get over Bush. I promise he won't run for President in 2008.
Shhesh... |
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Thanks for shedding light on the left's true feeling about abortion: Griswold v. Connecticut settled the question of whether birth control was a matter within the jurisdiction of individual states to regulate.
Key words being "birth control." |
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What if you are of age but a paraplegic? Can you support the war vocally then? Perhaps out of a desire to NOT be rolled off the deck of a cruise ship by savages...
Really, if a paraplegic civilian can make a case for war, why can't a healthy civilian? Does the message change because of who delivers it? According to leftists, yes. It's not the quality of the argument; it's who makes it.
If you are black, you can ridicule someone based on race because you have victim status and receive dispensation.
If you are white, you cannot because you are a natural oppressor and such ridicule is actually hate speech. |
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If you are in the age range to enlist in the military and you support this farce of a war, there is no excuse for not joining the war effort. |
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Irish Right,
Yes, my beef is that the children of elites avoid the military, Chelsea and Gore jr should go too. Old Joe Kennedy sent his sons off to war, and Teddy Rosevlet jr died on D day. Yesterday's elites had a sense of duty, today's do not.
A few Congressmen have children serving, but only a few.
No, my daughters did not go, tired by turned down on medical grounds, but I am not calling for an increased military like Romney is. And I served in the Army during Viet Nam, unlike Mitt, how dodged the draft by hiding out in France. |
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Bush: Don’t let Iraq be a Vietnam?
A big problem with Bush comparing Iraq to Vietnam is Nixon, Kissinger admitted Vietnam was unwinnable.
DNW- Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger admitted to each other privately that it was “impossible” to win the Vietnam War, yet called Democrats the “party of surrender” for wanting to pull out, according to a new book.
“Using language that has a painfully contemporary echo,” Nixon and Kissinger talked tough on Vietnam in public while secretly preparing to withdraw, according to historian Robert Dallek.
“In Saigon the tendency is to fight the war to victory,” Nixon told Kissinger as early as 1969, Dallek writes, “but you and I know it won’t happen - it is impossible.”
Nevertheless, the two agreed they should label the Democrats “the party of surrender” even as they maneuvered for a withdrawal, Dallek writes in “Nixon and Kissinger: Partners in Power.”
READ MORE
http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/bush-dont-let-iraq-be-a-vietnam |
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Iraq and Vietman are the same. Quagmire.
He needs to improve the American body count however. Only under 4000. |
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I am no longer on call, bed time. Morning comes early.
Most of my friends are SF (which is what I was before and after med school) and currently staging in Germany to go "who knows where."
There is a lot of what could be considered denominational violence right now. This is being fanned by outside terrorist groups. To many people put to much on Al Qaeda.
Why do you think Abu Abbas was in Iraq? |
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my sources say that you are mostly right there. Mostly not from Iraq or from the real AlQ. Mostly spawned after early 2003. My sources also say that although they are deadly well beyond their numbers there have never been ALL that many of them. There are far more Shiite and non AlQ Sunni "players". |
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"Allan says
"OBL is an idiot, not as big an idiot as Bush, but still an idiot"
What a telling remark. So you hold Bin Laden in low esteem, but still higher than the President of the United States?"
I was clearly addressing idiocy, not esteem.
And yes I do really think that Bush is a bigger idiot than OBL. |
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They may be in Iraq but they are not from Iraq. |
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You did not answer my question. When wast the last time you watched one? How come you wont call it what it really is? Will you drive your daughter to have one? Also I have no use what so ever for the legal profession so i don't really care about Griswald.
When was the last time you sat and talked to a suicidal teenager because she had an abortion. Or an older couple that can not have children because of an abortion the woman had in college that she did not tell her husband about.
Since you say it is her fetus, if the child is born with a severe birth defect can she also kill it. It is her child.
My patients know I am a pro life physician. I will help with birth control but once a fertilized egg is implanted i will not aide in killing it.
Planned parenthood does very little in the way of preventing contraception. I refer back to the teenager. From the moment she walked in their doors they were pushing her to get an abortion.
Planned parenthood supports the right for minors to kill an unborn child. My child's school called on Monday to ask if she could have Tylenol for a headache. She is 14. You want her to be able to have a surgical procedure and not tell anyone about it. What if she bleeds or becomes septic? Who will know? If she dies from complications who are YOU going to sue. Planned Parenthood is a joke.
A quick question on privacy and choice. Why is abortion considered a privacy but how much money I make and what I want to do with it is not.
How come the term choice does not apply to which school I want to send my kids to? |
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but not a whole lot of volunteers for Iraq now. Not a very big Army anymore either. Quite small now actually and one that is having to, shall I say "adjust", standards a lot and pay 10,000 to 20,000 buck bonuses just to keep it's small size.
What happens if we need the Army elsewhere? |
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of the real AlQ back then in March 2003, RC? 10,000? I think not.
The vast majority of "AlQ in Iraq" are just that, "AlQ in Iraq" not the real AlQ, but a group that started up in 2003 and just called themselves "AlQ in Iraq, aka AlQ in Mesopotamia, aka, AQI. They could just as well have called themselves "Warriors of Muhammad". |
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"The quote, from Bin Laden, showed how much importance he puts on our leaving the battlefield. Which is, I believe, also your counsel?"
Who cares what OBL says. Are you going to let him control you? I am not. And we are not staying in Iraq because of OBL. We are staying in Iraq because of Bush's hubris. |
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Just to let you know, Al Qaeda and Ansar Al-Islam were both already in Northern Iraq along the Iranian border when we got there. How do I know this, because I was there.
It is a voluntary army. The vast majority of the people that post on this site have not been there or served at all. |
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1. Why did the Bush Administration set such an arbitrarily short deadline for measuring the results of the surge? Was it realistic to believe that the success of the surge could be measured in such a short period of time?
2. Was there ever any realistic chance that General Petraeus would say anything this September other than that the we had made some real progress, but there is must left to do, and it is impossible to give a time line as to when American troops can leave? If not, how much deference should opponents of the war give to the General Petraeus report?
3. If winning this war is so critical to the security of the United States, why did Bush wait until after the mid-term election results before adopting a new strategy? Did he have to be told by the voters that his military strategy was not working? If so, what does that tell you about Bush? If not, was it not criminal for Bush to delay firing Rumsfeld, bringing in Petreaus and changing from a failed strategy based on mere domestic political calculations related to the mid-year elections? Why no moral outrage directed against President Bush?
4. Thought experiment: If, in fact, the war is not winnable (at least at a price the American people are willing to pay), is it not the moral and patriotic thing for citizens to advocate ending the slaughter sooner rather than later? If not, is it the patriotic duty of American citizens to always support their President’s foreign military adventures, regardless of the wisdom or futility or the enterprise? If, on the other hand, it is the duty of citizens to oppose unwinnable wars-of–choice, why the vitriol against those who do so. They just have different perceptions of something that neither side can know for sure (i.e., the future), correct?
5. What if the Kos crowd are the children pointing out that the emperor has no clothes? How can you be so certain that is not the case, given how often you folks have been wrong about the war?
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Boromir's Horn, here is one for you from before Bush went off his toot:
George W. Bush on October 11 2000 -
"Maybe I'm missing something here. I mean, we're going to have kind of a nation-building corps from America? Absolutely not. Our military's meant to fight and win war. That's what it's meant to do. And when it gets overextended, morale drops. But I'm going to be judicious as to how to use the military. It needs to be in our vital interest, the mission needs to be clear, and the exit strategy obvious."
And no 9/11 did not override that. It should have reinforced it. |
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"BTW, it is highly doubtfully that OBL is in Iraq."
Your comment is most ridiculous. No one implied he was. The quote, from Bin Laden, showed how much importance he puts on our leaving the battlefield. Which is, I believe, also your counsel? |
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"OBL is an idiot, not as big an idiot as Bush, but still an idiot"
What a telling remark. So you hold Bin Laden in low esteem, but still higher than the President of the United States? |
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"the same guys basically going over and over and over again"
This isn't fuzzy math allan, if you don't have the numbers to field (thanks in large part to Bill Clinton) you make do with the numbers you have |
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"allan, here's another quote you'll need
"the war in Iraq is for you or us to win. If we win it, it means your disgrace and defeat forever."
Uh, that was your old buddy Bin Laden"
Your comment is ridiculous. OBL is not my buddy. Never has been, never will be.
OBL is an idiot, not as big an idiot as Bush, but still an idiot, so I will never quote him or let him pull my string.
BTW, it is highly doubtfully that OBL is in Iraq. |
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"And when that hard work is done and the critics of today recede from memory, the cause of freedom will be stronger, a vital region will be brighter, and the American people will be safer."
Uh, that was my old buddy, the President of the United States |
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"Uncle Sam wants you...
Wow! Great argument. So if you don't enlist you can't support the war?"
No one said that.
However, if someone supports the war, particularly with many guys going on second, third and even forth tours and being extended to 15 months for a tour, and they are of the right age to enlist (18, 17 with H.S. diploma and under 42yo), it is a natural question, "Why haven't you joined then?"
The more that someone promotes the Iraq war the more natural that question is.
I frankly have no idea if Romney's sons support the Iraq war, which means the same guys basically going over and over and over again, and if they do, how much.
I actually get the feeling that Romney himself does not support the Iraq war all that much. |
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"the war in Iraq is for you or us to win. If we win it, it means your disgrace and defeat forever."
Uh, that was your old buddy Bin Laden |
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"Had these erstwhile experts had their way, the very notion of inducing a democratic revolution would have died of ridicule at an early stage."
Would you consider yourself an "erstwhile expert" allan?
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There has never even been 10,000 "AlQ in Iraq" (which is of course not the real AlQ anyway, just a group formed in 2003 that thought that it would gain them gravitas to call themselves that. Kind of like if you started up a football team in the neighborhood and called yourselves "Oakland Raiders in the Neighborhood"), in Iraq. Bush is almost certainly using "fuzzy math" to get anywhere near 10,000.
Not "retreating" from Iraq is costing the U.S. Army plenty. It may not be "broken" but it is very stressed and teetering.
Always remember:
"One must be as a lion to frighten off wolves, but as a fox to recognize traps."
- Niccolo Machiavelli
and
"The wise man does sooner what the fool does finally."
- Niccolo Machiavelli |
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Choice is what you have for dinner or what to wear in the morning. Have you ever watched an abortion? Being a physician I will give you the summary. You butcher a child while it is still in the womb and than suck it out with a shop vac. Or, you poison it and wait a couple of days before you pull it out feet first and pith the skull. Was that simple enough for you?
There are 2 things that really p*ss me off.
1. People that make all kinds of comments about Iraq when they have not been there. (I have)
2. People that are cowards and will not call abortion what it really is. Let's disinfect it as much as possible and call it women's health care. What a load of poop. |
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The 10,000 came from the speech. Actually it is 10 -12,000 (Bush said 1,500 month average for 8 months). In the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, etc the loss of life in the final years dwarfed that of the early ones. That is when the fighting is the hardest, trying to get the other to quit. Viet Nam was a bit different. From 1965 through 1968 the PANV and VC took tremendous casulaties trying to go head to head with us. The VC suffered greatly for their 1968 Tet offensive. Funny, you voting for Bush. I'm a former Democrat. I think that a retreat in Iraq will cost us considerably. I'm afraid that this is but a battle of a long war. |
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Liberals (or Modern Liberals as Evan Sayet calls them), see Bush as most people see Hitler. To these Modern Libs, it doesn't matter what Bush does, because Bush is like a Hitler.
It's the same as people (who understand what Hitler was about) bothering to discuss Hitler's social Security program. We wouldn't bother because it doesn't matter: we're talking about Hitler so defeating him is all that counts.
Modern Libs are in same mindset and that is why most of our logic bounces off the real deep believers on the left. Since they think of Bush as a Hitler-type figure, they don't believe a word he says and they actually hate him. Our chance is with the people who don't pay enough attention to the Modern Liberal philosophy and wouldn't buy into it if they knew the sinisterness of it.
A great talk about Modern Liberals is by Evan Sayet and it's here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c.
Watch the Q&A at the end too. After you see it, you'll see why people like Tensor Field are the way they are. The reality is Tensor Field and his ilk really want to see us lose. We can argue with him all we want, but he sees Hitler and his imperative is for us (you, me, the US, Western Civilization, etc.) to lose. Yes, it's that bad...watch the video!
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Wow! Great argument. So if you don't enlist you can't support the war? I guess if you enlist then you must support the war. What next show your DD214 before you can vote? Funny, I don't remember having to take a position on the war in 1965. I just swore to "... defend against enemies, foreign and domestic...". |
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Allan you wrote...10,000?
And the source for your estimate is...?
That is what Hugh wrote, not me, and he did not seem to present it as just a rough estimate. Ask him to substantiate it. I don't usually do estimates. They are too unreliable. If I *were* to do an estimate I would be conservative, not fantasy high. 10,000 though, and in less than 7 months, sounds to me like RVN deja vu frankly.
BTW, the candidate that I voted for, for President, won in both 2000 and 2004, although I am more than a little beginning to wish that he hadn't. Also The "Bush Lied", "No Blood for Oil" is not an argument that I have ever made. What do "we" do now? "We" start pulling our used and abused troops out of Iraq and let the Iraqis decide things for themselves. They are going to end up doing that anyway, so why get still more American troops killed and disabled just to postpone the inevitable to after Bush conveniently leaves office. It is not our troops job to decide whether Mohammed's rightful successor was Umar or Ali?
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I served during RVN, I even volunteered for the draft, and I didn't even particularly support the war. If Romney's sons support the war they should certainly enlist. If they do not support the war they shouldn't. |
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Can we drop the tired meme about the Romney boys lack of military service. It really is a strawman. As has been pointed out ad infinitum, we have a volunteer military. They certainly have not "refused" to serve, they chose not to enter the military just as the overwhelming majority of folks in their age groups have chosen not to enter the military. That doesn't make them better or worse than any of their peers. In fact, it makes them pretty normal.
Just two questions for you, btw ... first, do you take the same attitude about other candidates' children who have chosen not to enlist? Finally, do you have any children of the appropriate age and, if so, have they also "refused" to serve? |
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How many more terrorists could be killed if the Romney boys enlisted. Since they don't think the war effort is important, why should anyone else? Don't they listen to Bush and Hugh?
What does it say when the best and brightest of a generation refuse to serve their country in its hour of need? |
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How many terrorists have been killed in Iraq? How many civilians? By whom?
That's simple...tell us how many? I'm not interested in motive. Give me a body count.
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Good news about Iraq is not permitted. Good news about Iraq is not permitted. Good news about Iraq is not permitted.
Looks like we have to win this despite the left. |
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Only if we let it happen....The level of liberal debate here is shallow, to put a nice ring on it. Obviously the DU and Kos crowd have determined to flood conservative blogs to quash dissent. It's only their site if you give it to them. |
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I have no idea if that number is accurate: I do relish this prospect, though, and it was a point well made in 2004-2005 by an Army officer. If terrorist are going to concentrate in any one area, why not have in a place where we have concentrated our lethal force?
I care nothing for the libs opinion of how the president discusses this war. I think the American people should be told that we are killing thousands of those bastards OVER THERE.
Why not take them on where our force is concentrated?
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More of the KosRoids here than at Kos.EEeeeeeek!!
Of course,King KosRoid doesn't allow dissent. |
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That is simply pathetic.
But not a surprise.
Democrat Partisans have been undermining an effort to bring liberty to Millions of formerly oppressed Iraqis, for their own petty political gain, and because of their ugly bigotry for Republicans - Conservatives.
The Democrat Party is a true embarrassment, and the only chance the Terrorists have to survive, or succeed.
It is all very sad and regretful.
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And the source for your estimate is...?
Speaking of credibility on the war, or any war, I think the American Left forfeited their last remnants when they nominated John Kerry in 2004 thinking he would be accepted as one who could leasd this country during these times.
I can understand your frustration on losing the presidency in 200 and 2004, but you guys have to "move-on".
It would be good for you to have a discussion with others who do not think as you do. The "Bush Lied", "No Blood for Oil" is really quite a juvenile argument. The important question is - What do we do now? |
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I would not buy that any more than I would buy beach front property in Kansas without proof.
They have clearly got to be counting a lot more than Al Q in Iraq as there has never been that many Al Q in Iraq.. |
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It's really quite simple. The
Carnegie Endowment and its Foundation are well known supporters of liberal causes. In short, you attempted, and failed, to pass of an opinion piece as a new article. Try again. I love it when you libs have demonstrate no historical knowledge of the sources and origins of newspeak. This has been an ongoing polemic for twenty five years. Welcome to the game. |
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"He scammed Congress. He scammed the American People."
Well, if bush is such an idiot how did he scam all of Congress and the American people? What does this say about them (us)?
Oh....I get it...you of the minority yet well informed and prescient beyond our abilities knew better!!
Briggsy, this "stealing the oil meme is the most idiotic concept imaginable
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TensorField you wrote "...of the 10,000 (accepting that number on face value - a big "if") "
OK, I give up. Is the number too high or too low and what do you base it upon?
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It should be criminally-prosecuted infanticide everywhere in my book; but it's not up to me to enforce morality...
If, for example, I tell you you can read the Bible online at http://www.BibleGateway.com, it's really up to you to take advantage or not.
I'm really of the opinion that our government is not very effective at even the simplest things... like building fences and maintaining bridges... |
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...of the 10,000 (accepting that number on face value - a big "if") were foreign jihadists?
How many were "terrorists" *before* the spring of 2003?
Methinks...not so many.
The number - in and of itself - means nothing. "Killed *or* captured". Yeah, that's informative. |
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victim of narcissistic personality disorder.
It's all Dubya's fault. If he, like John Kerry had "sat stunned, for 45 minutes" on 9/11/2001--and then gone to the UN to request Peacekeepers patrol the streets of NYC, we could all have been saved...
Well, if there really was no terror attack, if Muslim extremists weren't plotting to establish a world-wide Caliphate, and if the Moon really were made of green cheese... |
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this:
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Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said Tuesday in a Nevada television interview that he supports letting states "make their own decision" about whether to keep abortion legal.
"My view is that the Supreme Court has made an error in saying at the national level one size fits all for the whole nation," Romney told Nevada political columnist Jon Ralston in a televised interview. "Instead, I would let states make their choices."
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(from ABC: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3511448&page=1)
They will try to make it look like he's "going soft" when he's arguing "States' Rights"...
And then they'll try to make him look like an extremist.
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All these loony leftists make me laugh. They can't stop for even ONE second and celebrate that we've killed or captured over 10,000 terrorists (just this year!). Most sane people might say, "It's a good start" but these losers can still manage to do their best wet blanket routine. If you don't want to be on a winning team, then just go home, losers. |
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Please explain. I love it when Wingers can dismiss something out of hand based on a url. You clearly suffer from MSMDS. |
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an original thought. You botched the Duranty remark on the other thread. Try saying something that I can't already find on the Kos talking points page. |
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And how many innocent Americans have been spared due to us staying on offense in the War on Terror? I'm sorry that you and Obama remain proud members of the pro-genocide caucus, but the surge is working and Iraqi lives are being saved in spite of you.
The anti-war movement and DC bumblers empowered Pol Pot 30 years ago. Don't repeat your mistake by enabling the Sadrs, Ahmadinejads and Zawahiris of today.
Jon, http://exurbanleague.com |
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...innocent Iraqis were killed this year by these terrorists because of the situation in Iraq birthed by Donald Rumsfeld's fatally flawed plan?
A plan, I might add, that this blog and many others in the WingNuttery cheered on for years while it was blindingly obvious that it was failing.
The window of opportunity (if there ever was one) is closed. Game over. |
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