Romney is making inroads into the Christian Right. It is highly significant that a Mormon and a Baptist Minister ran 1 and 2. Ron Paul ran ahead of Fred which is also highly significant. This is a tremendous vote of no confidence in Fred and his ability to beat Rudy.
Rudy and McCain got less than 2 %. That does not say much for the Rudy argument that only he can beat Hillary. Much of the conservative support that he has now is going to fade by December.
This is a dismal showing by Fred, Rudy and McCain. |
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Ron Paul 3rd place at the Value Voters summit - am I reading this correctly? There appears to be some major change going on here. If he can attract votes from this normally pro-war crowd, we may be in for an interesting primary season.
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Go to the frc website for actual results |
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so how is 1565 more than 1595?
Oh maybe you are going to say that huckabee won those who voted on site.
yet 65% of Hucks total vote came from the online site. So if its ok to count those votes for Huck we ought to be able to count those votes for Romney as well.
But lets just say the votes onsite count, Its still a BIG plus for Romney because as BG pointed out a second place finish for a Mormon, ahead of Fred who had a big push for votes here with a big presence of flyers and supporters is a good thing.
I think alot of Huckabee, I think his speech was the best this weekend with Romney as second, but he wont be able to win the nomination. he doesnt have the money nor the organization to make it all the way.Time to rally around the only socially conservative candidate that can beat Rudy and Hillay and that is Romney. |
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Doesn't matter they were so close. What is significant about this vote is that the RNC favorite candidates, Giuliani and McCain, just barely beat ME. This should be the end for the Giuliani myth. He CAN'T beat Hillary by being a pale clone of her husband. Finally, we can move on and work on or past Romney. It is up to Mitt to define a clear conservative platform for himself and stay on message. The ball is finally in his court. |
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Ron Paul only did as well as he did from the Internet votes. The Internet poll should not have even been included, as anyone who donated a dollar could vote in it. The true poll is the one that was taken at the summit itself. These are the results from there:
Mike Huckabee 488 51.26%
Mitt Romney 99 10.40%
Fred Thompson 77 8.09%
Tom Tancredo 65 6.83%%
Rudy Giuliani 60 6.30%
http://www.frcaction.org/ |
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Since we're making rules on the fly, I declare that the only votes that should count are the ones cast for Duncan Hunter. |
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As Ron Paul's goofy but dedicated supporters have demonstrated time and again, Internet polls are meaningless.
Romney's showing with online poll results included are a result of his campaign pulling a page out of Paul's playbook and e-mailing supporters to encourage them to vote online. |
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How can anyone take someone named "Huckabee" seriously? Everytime I hear that name I expect to see the "Country Bear Jamboree" cueing up in the background.
All kidding aside, Huckabee just doesn't come across as having the "gravitas" required to be President.
Who has it?
Romney has it, Giuliani has it, Fred, if he didn't come across like the walking dead might have it. Even Hillary has it a little.
But Huckabee? No. Vice-Presidential maybe, but not Presidential. |
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Open borders, reparations to blacks. DOA. |
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The only reason I said that is because if you want a true result from that group of people, then you cannot count votes that were placed online for a dollar donation. Anyone could vote in that. It is not a true reflection of what the values voters are seeking. Either way, my guy did not come out on top... So, I am not saying that to boost my candidate. I do like Duncan Hunter though... I would much rather have seen him win it than Huckabee. Huckabee may be great on social issues, but he is far too liberal on immigration, taxes, big govt., etc. for me. I am a social conservative, but I am also conservative on the other issues as well. Fred is my man. But, I really like Hunter as well. I would love to see them together on a ticket. If a majority of social cons vote for Huck, then the conservative vote will be divided like crazy and Rudy will win the candidacy... which is what a lot of social conservatives say they don't want. We have got to all get behind someone who can get the votes of both social conservatives AND fiscal ones. |
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Let's see how our boy is doing in the early Primary States:
Iowa - 13 points out of the lead,
NH - 20 points out of the lead,
SC - 15 points out of the lead,
MI - 20 points out of the lead,
NV - Not included in poll so who knows...
Ok, that's the first 5 states that will hold Primaries and then we have a week off before the next round.
Right now, it looks like although a room full of Baptists likes a Baptist Preacher for President, he is destined for the early primary slaughterhouse.
The real question is, can Huckabee go on after being blown out of the water the first week?
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NONE of these straw polls can be interpreted as indicative of an election. But everyone knows the rules going in and you can't just re-interpret the result to favor your candidate. The paulbots have come up with a system that "proves" that their candidate has won every poll and debate so far. Does anyone believe them? Same here. Huckabee did well but nationally, once people realize that he is an open-borders candidate who advocates reparations to blacks for slavery, he will be less popular than the mercifully departed Sen. Brokeback. |
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Just so you know alot of people at the site voted online as the line was long. Do you really think that only 30% of the people who paid to attend would vote in the straw poll? These are the most active of social conservatives. I know for a fact that people voted from computers in their rooms.
So we really have no way of knowing what the real tally of those there was.
I agree with Pas Phil the real story is that the national leaders- Rudy, mccain, and Fred did not do very well at all.
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Romney was expected to win. Huckabee won.
Mike Huckabee -- 488 votes -- 51.26%
Mitt Romney -- 99 votes -- 10.40%
Fred Thompson -- 77 votes -- 8.09%
Tom Tancredo -- 65 votes -- 6.83%%
Rudy Giuliani -- 60 votes -- 6.30%
Duncan Hunter -- 54 votes -- 5.67%
John McCain -- 30 votes -- 3.15%
Sam Brownback -- 26 votes -- 2.73%
Ron Paul -- 25 votes -- 2.63%
Undecided -- 11 votes -- 1.16%
The people who went to Washington and heard Romney's speech were not swayed. He is not to be trusted. Value voters realized this. Huckabee was very compelling
In any case, I couldn't care less who won. Social conservatives are split. That's the headline.
Please stop being naive and start paying attention to whats going on.
1)Social conservatives are divided. That's good news.
2)Romney has spent millions in Iowa. Rudy and McCain are choosing not to campaign in Iowa. Huckabee is rising very fast in Iowa and he might very well win the caucus. Does this remind you of Ames straw poll? Yep. The plan is to make the Iowa Caucus as irrelevant as the Ames straw poll. If Rudy comes in 2nd in Iowa (where he has not spent a dime) that will be a win for him.
PS: All the Romney endorsements have not helped him with the average Conservative voter. Conservatives still prefer Thompson and Rudy and then McCain. Romney is a distant 4th.
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That is exactly what I am saying though... The Paulbots loaded the Internet poll. I already explained that Fred is my guy and that he didn't win, even without the Internet poll being included. In no way am I saying my guy won or trying to sway the poll in my candidate's direction. But, social conservatives did not vote for Ron Paul. The Paulistas did. I would at least take a look at both results separately.
I hope you are right about people learning about Huckabee's liberal stances, and that he will get out before he takes away the chance of someone else to garner the votes of the conservatives. I think a lot of people think he is just perfect because of his social stances, and they have NO idea how he stands on anything else. And immigration is a big deal to social conservatives, so it is not like they would just overlook that. Look how much heat Bush has taken on that issue. |
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Ok... I get your point there... Hmmm.... I just wish they had figured out a way to keep the polling strictly for attendees. That would be the fairest way to do it. Otherwise, it is still skewed a bit from the non-attendees. I would really like to see the true numbers from that group. |
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Just getting in on the game, like what I saw in Huckabee and hadn't the faintest clue he was an open-borders guy. How does one learn about Huck's liberal stances? Where does one go for the info? |
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you go to http://www.ontheissues.org.
Simple as that. |
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blogosphere neophyte. Just here to learn. |
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Huckabee is not an open borders guy. I've heard two times in the last 2 days say that we need to seal the border now.
You MittHeads will do anything to get Rommney some votes. I would rather have Rommney than Hillary, but I don't think he can beat Hillary. There is a sizable percentage of people who say they are not comfortable with a Mormon as President. Some Christian leaders are endorsing Rommney because they mistakenly believe that "values Voters" will turn out for Mitt. I think most will, but not all will.
Mitt did buy the online value voters poll. I go to Huckabees website daily and there was nothing there about how to do online and vote. I get Huckabee E-mails and I did not get one that told me where to go to vote. If I did I would have vote for Huckabee. He is the first politician I to whom I have ever given money.
Once more Christians hear Huckabee they will vote for him and they will turn out for him in the general election.
By the way, Mormonism is not Christianity. |
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Read David Brooks' recent column and you'll see that Huckabee has everything that appeals to today's GOP. Giuliani and Romney are just too detached from the rank-and-file Republicans (middle-class whites). Huckabee needs some $$, but that'll come in time . . . |
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Huckabee IS an open-borders guy. He was a strong advocate for COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM. In case you just landed on this planet, that is a euphemism for blanket amnesty and open-borders. If you watched any of the debates where the subject came up, he came right out and said so. So who do I believe? Him or you?
This is a critical issue with me and I wouldn't care if GOD was for open-borders, HE would not get my vote. You know less about your candidate than the paulbots know about theirs. Maybe he shouldn't be your candidate. |
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All I know is what I heard, last night and today. He said we need to seal the borders now. Go to his website and see what he says about it. |
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Both his comments and his website are consistent. Seal the borders. Maybe you have recieved some bad information. |
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I think if God were for open borders that maybe you should rethink your position. However, He hasn't told us his position on this issue. |
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When Huckabee says "seal the borders", he means "comprehensive immigration reform" not "enforcement first". He has never wavered from that position. He has exactly the same position on the subject as Ted Kennedy, John McCain, George Bush, Hillary Clinton, Rudy Giuliani and others. |
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If there is anything we can conclude from this it is that the election is wide open. And the polls really do not indicate too much. Consider the fact that nearly all of the polls focus on the last primary voters which was the lowest turnout on record for Republicans (6.6%). This was largely because Bush was almost guaranteed the nomination with it being war time. With this small of a sample set of the Republican party, it really is difficult to get an accurate picture of how the American public will vote come January.
Huckabee puzzles me. He got fantastic results in the Iowa straw poll and again here in the Values Voters poll, but he hasn't been able to raised funds for his campaign. Ron Paul, despite an obvious bias in online voting, has proven he does in fact have real life support by raising over $5 million last quarter -- well above Huckabee's total of less than $1 million. Yet, Huckabee does seem to have a lot of people who like him.
January is going to be very interesting. It would not surprise me to find a close Romney, Huckabee, and Ron Paul race by the end. The thing I just don't understand: how on earth is Giuliani leading the race? Why doesn't anyone ask _him_ why he is running as a Republican? :-)
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Huckabee does in fact stand for closed borders to illegal immigration. Here is his answer to this question put to him back in June:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SPNJi0K7NL4
I was curious on this as well, so I decided to do a little searching. :-) |
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has tons of information on the candidates from a social perspective. I have heard all of the reasons for why on line straw polls are flawed, but in a sense they are "Free" much like walking into the polling booth without having to drive somewhere, check into a hotel, and miss a boatload of great college football! So, I think that they are more accurate than others for that logic. There are absolutely NO Top Tier Rino/Cino candidates that I would even consider voting for, and I've concluded 16 reasons not to vote for Huchabee as well. Most recently is:
He raised State sales tax by 37%, fuel tax 16%, Cigarettes 103%, and increased State Employees by 20%, and increased State spending by 65.3%.(Most of the employee increase was teachers). The Clintons introduced him to Joycelyn Elders who in turn influenced him into political service. His "Second Chance Doctrine" is clearly a civil rights movement for millions of Mexican Immigrants.(I'm in favor of reducing legal immigration as well as eliminating illegal immigration). He is an open borders guy just like John McCain.......Vote Hunter/Tancredo/Paul. For real conservatism. |
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http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/05/huc kabee_some_c.html
I can play this game for as long as you want. Huckabee was an embarrassment during the fight against amnesty. He was one of the first to call us racists. You can't erase history. I will find the video where he voted FOR the bill on the last day and tried to change his vote two minutes later when he realized that the Senate phones had been overwhelmed by many of my friends. You are just so wrong. |
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As governor Huckabee commuted 111 sentences.
Huckabee has commuted sentences for violent offenders.
In 2004 Huckabee commuted the sentence of convicted murderer, Denver Witham.
Huckabee advocated the release of a convicted rapist who was then paroled and later found guilty of murdering a woman in Missouri.
Huckabee is a bleeding heart.
As someone in law enforcement, I find his record VILE.
With conservatives like Huckabee, who needs liberals. |
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FOR, Free Pre-Natal Care for Illegal Immigrants. Unfortunately, he wants ME to pay for it rather than the Taxpayers of the Sovereign Government of Mexico. Then, he wants In-State Tuition for the baby of the illegal.
That's enough for me. My personal solution would be to send the mother-to-be back to Mexico, and let THEM provide the "Free" Pre-Natal Care.
Anyhoo, be that as it may, he'll probably steal enough of Romney's thunder in Iowa to seriously damage Romney's ability to build the momentum necessary to sling-shot through super tuesday. BTW, Huckabee is only six, or seven points behind Mitt in Iowa in the latest Rasmussen Poll. He MIGHT, actuall, win the danged thing. Falwell did.
And, yes, the internet part was a joke. If the internet polls meant anything Ron Paul would be our next President. This was a disappointing result for Romney. He needs to catch a "Break," and, pretty Danged Quick. |
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If Rudy wins I think he will choose Huckabee. It's the natural choice. Not only do the social conservatives like him, but he is also liked by the media -- and contrary to Rudy's abrasive personality -- huckabee is likeable, funny and warm.
Of course, Rudy's abrasive personality is what makes him the best candidate to go after Hillary. Rudy is a street fighter who knows how to beat up on liberals and deal with Press corps like no other Republican since Reagan.
For crying out loud, the guy won on the GOP ticket in NYC which is the headquarters on the liberal media. That will give him a huge advantage in the general election |
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I can't wait for Ron Paul to lose the GOP nod and then declare his candidacy on the libertarian ticket. LOL
It will be great to see the sourpusses on all those democrats who had supported him as a republican (to stick it to us) but will then have to choose to hypocritically abandon him or risk turning him into a spoiler ala nader 2000 and hand the presidency once again to the GOP. |
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He has said it wouldn't be Christian to expect illegal aliens to comply with our laws. EVERYONE, including McCain, Huckabee and Rudy are saying seal the border. But they will not enforce existing laws. We know they want amnesty for illegals already here and any amnesty will increase the problem, just as the last amnesty did. Some other info from another poster:
Reaganite writes: Thursday, October, 04, 2007 1:16 PM
Huckabee - liberal on illegal aliens
He favored giving scholarships to illegal aliens:
http://www.nwanews.com/story.php?paper=adg§ion=News&storyid =104629
He criticized an ICE raid on an Arkansas poultry plant that resulted in the deportation of 107:
http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0805/249679.html
Of course, this was in 2005 and before he wanted to be president.
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Rudy was elected on the Liberal Party ticket as Mayor. |
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The Liberal Media want Rudy to win.
1. They have tons of dirt on him for years that they are saving for the general.
2. He divides the GOP and rips the heart out of the GOP by dividing the social conservatives.
3. He may cause a 3rd party which helps the Dems and recreates lots of storylines and advertising revenue. |
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That might be enough to get me to vote for Ron Paul, even though he's a 19th century man running in the 21st. |
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It is simple. A straw vote for Huckabee is a symbolic gesture that costs nothing. Writing a $2300 check is another thing.
Huckabee has support but it is not the type of support that funds political victory. The Christian Right knows Huckabee is not going to win even if they all endorse him in mass. He is getting more support as Fred flounders but he is not a horse that they can ride against Rudy or Hillary and they know it. |
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Huck has been very open about being open borders unless of course he has just become a dreaded flipflopper, which would not surprise me. However, since he is as liberal as Clinton on many issues I doubt if he has changed his pro amnesty position. He is just fogging the issue with a little slight of tongue. |
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And they are one of the largest employers of illegal aliens. Swift, Cargill, and Perdue also employ large numbers of illegals. And these companies are the tip of the iceberg. Wake up America, while you still have a country!!! |
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I guess you don't like Gov. Rick Perry (TX) arguably the most conservative governor in Texas history now that he's endorsed Rudy:
"Rudy Giuliani is the most prepared individual of either party to be the next President." - Gov. Rick Perry (TX)
"I'm proudly and excitedly going to campaign for him and work for him," - Gov. Rick Perry (TX)
"For the last six months, I have cogitated, I've looked, I've studied these candidates — some of them I know very well — and came to the conclusion that the individual who can lead America with clarity, the individual who has the experience, the individual who cleaned up a city that was absolutely on its back is mayor Rudy Giuliani," - Gov. Rick Perry (TX)
"What is the result that they would like to see?, It is that Roe v. Wade would be overturned and that that would fall back to the states. How does that happen? It happens when the next president of the United States appoints strict constructionists to the Supreme Court. Rudy Giuliani has looked me in the eye and told me that is what he will do." - Gov. Rick Perry (TX) |
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Two facts just enjoined in my little Pea-Brain. The Poll was right after Huckabee's speech, and
a lot of people were voting in their rooms.
It does stand "to reason" that the hall would be full of Huckabee supporters, and that those who support other candidates would be in their rooms, on their way to the airport, etc.
OKAY, I'm gonna "take" the Win.
Ya gotta be an optimist in this "business." :) |
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George Bush's eyes, once? How did that work out? |
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Obviously, there are a lot of Mitt fans on line. I will vote for Mitt if it Mitt vs Hillary. But it seems to me that a lot of you are scared that Huckabee will keep building momentum.
I don't know what Huckabee said 2 years ago, but what he is saying now is that he is going to seal the borders and is agianst any type of amnesty plan. If Mitt can change is mind about several issues, then I think you have to give Huckabee the same leeway.
For those of you out there thinking about voting for Ron Paul, have your head examined. |
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Rufus, your boy got trounced. But keep believing. |
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On Rudy.
They can't use it without looking like hypocrites. Not only the Liberal media, but the democrats too. They have a real problem if Rudy gets the GOP nod because they can't attack his personal life without looking like the biggest hypocrites in the world.
or have you forgotten the narrative the dems and Liberal MSM ran with during the Lewisnsky scandal -- you know, what a President does or has done in their personal life has no bearing on their ability to be President.
And don't think that Rudy won't throw that back in their face if they go after him.
I can't wait for that showdown, where he shoves their own words back in there pathetic liberal faces.
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Pasadena Phil
What are you talking about. You say that Huckabee was for an amnesty bill in the senate. He was a govenor, not a senator. He had no vote on this issue. |
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Phil, you claim to be an expert on Huckabee... And then you talk about him changing his vote in the Senate on the immigration bill. Huckabee has never been in the Senate (he was governor of Arkansas for ten and a half years). You're talking about Sam Brownback. Why should we listen to you? =P |
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who changed his vote at the last minute. |
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for campaign Romney) that reported.
Several sources connected to the FRC Action Washington Briefing have said Romney brought in "around 100" people to participate and assist.
SO ROMNEY PAID FOR 100 VOTES AND ONLY GOT 99.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
"....Romney's weak second-place showing (10%) among attendees is actually worse than it looks. As he does for most every large event, he had salted the crowd with his own supporters. Not to say that there is anything wrong with this -- they play to win -- but he probably had most of his 99 votes in hand before those folks even stepped into the Hilton....." (Politico)
That's not all. The Romney campaign is now trying to spin this by saying that they advised supporters to vote online in lieu of voting in person (you know that's a lie).
To underscore this point, they have "witnesses" coming forward to make the same point:
Nancy French, one of the founders of http://www.evangelicalsformitt.com said, "Six hundred people who were here in attendance voted online to avoid the looooong voting lines. FOR EXAMPLY, I VOTED ONLINE SEVERAL DAYS AGO AND I KNOW MANY (capitalized for emphasis-I will make my point shortly) Gov. Romney fans present here did as well"
THIS NANCY FRENCH WOMAN IS ADMITTING THAT THEY VOTED FOR ROMNEY SEVERAL DAYS AGO. BEFORE THEY HAD HEARD ROMNEY'S SPEECH!! BEFORE THE EVENT HAD EVEN BEGUN (keep in mind the online poll has been opened for a while now). SHE IS ADMITTING THAT ROMNEY CAMPAIGN STACKED THE POLLS!!!(not that there's anything wrong with that)
He can get all the endorsements in the world but it wont do him any good. Rank and file evangelicals, the grassroots people, don't want Romney.
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Huckabee has never been in the senate but don't let facts get in the way of your argument. |
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The actual straw poll results are not nearly as important as the spin that the MSM are putting on the results. So far most of them have headlines that Romney won. I will take the spin.
The MSM will attack anyone when it fits their agenda and it sells advertising. They love it when the attacked politician throws it back because it creates interest and blows it up into a bigger story. Just look at Craig for an example.
Most Romney supporters are not worried about Huckabee. They want him to finish a distant 2nd behind Romney in IA as that means Fred, Rudy and McCain are 3rd or worse. Huckabee will not be a factor in NH and that will be the end. He may hold Fred down in SC and FL.
Huckabee does not have the money nor the time to put in the GOTV that is required to win the early primaries. However, he can siphon votes, that would not got to Romney, off of Fred. |
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It is a distortion to say that Romney's voters did not attend and listen to the speeches. Many people who were in attendance voted online. It would be more honest to say Romney voters are more internet savvy than to say that Romney voters didn't attend. |
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The latest CNN poll shows that 50% of those polled now think that Mormons are Christians, up from 34 % earlier in the year. That helps Romney, especially with the Osteen type Christians.
Further, I would suggest that as Romney campaigns, a lot more of the Religious Right, who believe Mormons are a cult, will decide to support Romney out of practical politics. It really is a choice now between Romney and Rudy.
Even though they are reluctant to openly support Romney they realize that Fred is not going to stop Rudy. In their hearts they would prefer a Baptist minister but that is not a viable option.
To most of them, Romney is the lesser of the evils and he will work effectively to further the issues that the Religious Right care about. |
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What headlines are you looking at????
"The Story Today Is Huckabee"
-CBNnews
"Huckabee Wins Big Onsite"
-RealClearPolitics
"Romney Wins Online, Huckabee Wins Room"
-Politico
"A Huckabee Landslide"
-The Atlantic
"Religious Right Divides It's Vote"
-New York Times
"Religious Right Straw Victor: Romney/Huckabee
-Baltimore Sun
The (few) headlines saying Romney won have disclaimers. They have subheadlines spelling out that Huck is the Onsite winner.
Waiting to see how Huffington Post spin this.
Conservatives are divided. That, in itself, is a victory for Rudy.
Huckabee will be on Fox News Sunday tomorrow. |
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50% of americans think that mormons are christians but less that 10% of evangelical christians believe that.
CAN'T YOU SEE? It doesn't matter what the rest of america thinks. They're irrelevant. It's the evangelical christians that matter.
Let's assume people don't have a problem with mormonism. Something else has to explain Romney's low ratings in the polls. He polls 4th in national polls. His lead in NH has evaporated and he has spent millions there. He is second in Michigan (he should be first. His father was governer). HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS??? I don't believe it's his mormonism. He is just using that as an excuse. I think people just don't trust him.
A Columnist sums it up nicely:
"The news tomorrow is going to be that social conservatives are split. When the social conservative leaders meet tomorrow for their post-mortem, they will not be able to push people into supporting Romney.
The split continues. And Rudy is less unacceptable than people thought."
Rudy and Huckabee were the winners today. |
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is an open borders illegal alien lover!
He's just "flip-flopping like mitt, and I wouldn't believe a damn word he says!
My son lives in Arkansas, and he's told me all kinds of stories about "ole" Huck.
Face it folks, Huck is a RINO, and he's gonna say what you want to hear, to get your vote,....he's too close to Tyson too.
My son works in L.R., and he gets a lot of scuttle-but about "Huck".
He and I will both support Hunter or Tancredo.
The "so called" upper tier are not trustworthy, including CFR Freddie, IMO! |
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While I find this whole debate a little silly, as Huckabee supporters like me may have to vote for another candidate in the general election or vice-versa, I feel the need to point out a few of the facts. First, let me preface by saying that I hold no ill-will toward Romney whatsoever, and that whether the votes were "bought" by Romney requesting people to take part in the vote or not is irrelevant, as the fact remains that Romney still managed to motivate enough people to vote to pull first place in the online vote. However, I also, find it impressive that Huckabee showed so strongly, and all of this bickering is senseless as we all (myself included) may have to eat our words and throw our support behind another candidate as the primaries unfold.
Now, Huckabee is by his own admission NOT for amnesty or illegal immigration. "My number one priority is to secure America's border. I opposed the amnesty bill that was defeated by the Senate in June." Direct quote, http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.Ho me.
Also, Huckabee is the furthest thing that you can find from a Clinton liberal that you will ever find. Huckabee stands for less taxes/Both Clinton's stand for excessive taxes. Huckabee believes firmly in the sanctity of human life and strongly disagrees with the Roe v. Wade decision of 1973/Clinton gave us partial birth abortion. Finally, let me point out that Huckabee is a man who is unashamed to point out that his faith defines who he is personally and professionally. It's just to bad that more voters don't live up to that standard rather than their standard of electibility based on which candidate has the higher polling numbers. We have to wage a relentless campaign on the issues in order to win in 2008.
God Bless Us All (we are all brothers in arms regardles of our candidate)
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... That Huckabee supporters aren't internet savvy, Paul?
Does that smack as condescending to anyone else? |
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As I watch the debates, I think Ron Paul is really scary. The one thing that we all have to understand is that Islamo Terrorism is the most dangerous issue facing us. Paul wants to sit down next to them and negotiate. Please he'll get us killed, quicker than Hillary. I don't like Rudy's stand on the social issues, but I lover his leadership on terrorism. That is the one reason Rudy could win it all. |
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... of Bowa
"I guess you don't like Gov. Rick Perry (TX) arguably the most conservative governor in Texas history now that he's endorsed Rudy:
"Rudy Giuliani is the most prepared individual of either party to be the next President." - Gov. Rick Perry (TX)
"I'm proudly and excitedly going to campaign for him and work for him," - Gov. Rick Perry (TX)"
Bowa- You do know that Perry was a DEMOCRAT before he was a Republican, AND HE WAS THE AL GORE FOR PRESIDENT TEXAS CO-CHAIR IN '88.
I guess that would explain his endorsement of RUDY. |
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Most of the MSM are reporting this as a Romney win with Huck as a close 2nd.
If this were a matter of buying votes at $1 each why did not McCain who has been to a great number of these win? Why did not Thompson who is supposed to be the darling of the Religious Right flop behind Paul? Why did not Rudy buy a 100,000 votes?
Huckabee gave the last speech (Recency effect) but he did not give a speech, he gave a Baptist sermon. He can afford to take those kind of risks since he does not have to worry about winning the nomination, so he can say anything he wants, in any manner, in order to get traction.
Romney could have given such a speech but he has to carefully word everything, as he has to worry about turning off non religious voters and position for the general.
This may give Huck a slight bounce for a week but most of the Religious Right, whether they like Romney or not, know he alone can stop Rudy. Huckabee is not going to do that. They also know Fred is not going to do it.
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Looks like you were right. Fox went with the Huckabee landslide numbers. Very revealing that they would give so much importance to THIS straw poll and virtually ignored the Texas straw poll that Duncan Hunter won. Fox News also sees this as good for Giuliani? Whah!?!?! They think his directness will win the day in the end. Now THAT is grasping at straws. Open borders FOX endorses Giuliani and is as nutty in interpreting everything as a victory for their candidate as the paulbots are with theirs.
Two lessons to come out of this poll are that the evangelicals will only endorse a preacher (Romney won among the non-preachers) and that online poll numbers are useless. |
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This clearly establishes that there are definite grounds for establishing a second major party. |
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Thank you all for your perspectives. Now tell me, at what point does electability become a consideration? Or does it? Or should it? You all seem like rather educated/informed/principled posters. You're most certainly great debaters. Who's voting strictly on their values & principles? Or is that no longer a consideration? |
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Actually I have a lot of meetings today. However, our building has 4 congregations meeting in it on a staggered meeting schedule (pretty much 9 to 4 plus choir and special meetings at night). If you miss your regular church meetings you can attend another congregation's meetings. |
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for his stand on issues.
Pianogirl recommended ontheissues.org. They gave him a +2 on the "social" scale for being in favor of immigration and -5 for opposing same-sex marriage. So, that website leans liberal. I'd use caution before letting them tell us what to think as conservatives.
But note that he was graded on immigration, not amnesty. The charge that he's "pro-amnesty" is unfounded. See what his website says about immigration. I think you can sum it up by saying he has a soft heart for immigrants but zero tolerance for lawbreakers.
Oh, and you Paul lovers should have seen Huck on Glenn Beck's show Friday night. VERY passionate about constitutional rights.
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Evangelicals will only endorse a preacher?!?!?
What was Bush? (Besides being bought & paid for by big biz like our current foreign-owned-tollway lovin' Guv Perry)
I would've said something about your claim that Huckabee voted for amnesty (it WAS good for a laugh) but someone already called you out on it.
Also I (as an evangelical, but not the Osteen-type, as someone said above, I guess that means cotton-candy theology?) find it interesting that so many are lining up with Romney. I'm hedging my bets only 'cause of his flip-flopping but as someone said he's only getting more conservative, not going back & forth.
But he did DANG good on the Fox debate tonight (er, last night). |
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Oh yeah, the endorsements absolutely KILL the notion that Christians want a Christian theocracy.
Puh-leeze. |
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Don't have the link (read it awhile ago) but their posters have a virulent hatred toward evangelicals. All the name-calling, while (in the same breath!) calling US intolerant. Even a "liberal Catholic" (whatever that is, I guess anybody left of the Pope; as Dr Phil would say, how's that workin' for ya?) was railin' about 'em. |
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Just do a Google search for "Huckabee" and "immigration" and take a look at the articles. Look at his quotes on immigration before he was running for president.
http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2005/01/28/News/316347. html
LITTLE ROCK - Gov. Mike Huckabee Thursday denounced a bill by Sen. Jim Holt that would deny state benefits to illegal immigrants as un-Christian, un-American, irresponsible and anti-life.
Holt, R-Springdale, replied later that Christian charity does not include turning a blind eye to lawbreaking.
Senate Bill 206, filed Wednesday, also would require proof of citizenzhip to register to vote and would require state agencies to report suspected cases of people living in the country illegally.
"Somebody needs to ask Sen. Holt what welfare this bill would stop," Huckabee said in a question-and-answer period with reporters on Thursday morning. Many aid programs are state-administered but federally funded and are mandated to be available to people in need, Huckabee said.
Even if benefits to people who are in the U.S illegally could be stopped, "I don't understand how a practicing Christian can turn his back on a child from this or any other state," Huckabee said.
"Huckabee said he took exception to characterization of immigrants in the bill and by its supporters as exploiters of social programs. "They pay sales taxes on their groceries," Huckabee said. "They pay fuel taxes. If they're using a fake Social Security number, they're paying Social Security taxes and will never receive any benefit. It would be closer to the truth to say they're subsidizing Joe McCutchen and Jim Holt more than the other way around.
"Something that's not worth sharing is not worth celebrating," Huckabee said. "This is the kind of country that opens its doors. This bill expresses an un-American attitude."
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I am hedging on Huck as well as Romney. I'd hate for Huck to turn out like "Jorge" (as some witty folks have called him) Bush, but I don't think he would; he doesn't have the family connections or other red flags. Would love for Paul, Hunter etc. to do better as they seem less slippery.
The longer campaign & the "new media" (talk radio & internet) seem good for the Republican base, though. As long as we don't get more of the same, that is. |
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