Friday, January 04, 2008
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Iowa Shows Passion & Energy Matter
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Posted by:
Patrick Ruffini at
2:56 AM
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I don’t think I can add anything to the discussion of shifting horserace dynamics that hasn’t already been covered by the best political team in the blogosphere.
Taking a step back, I do think there are valuable lessons that should be memorialized by future campaigns that trek the terrain from Dubuque to Cedar Rapids.
Count on voters to decide with their hearts, not with their heads. 2004 was all about momentum vs. organization. 2008 was about candidates of the heart vs. the head. Clinton and Romney had well-reasoned closing arguments centering around their fitness for the office, which should be the bottom line in any normal election. But in Iowa, the pull of identity, of gut decisions, and of emotion, won the day. Obama crushed with 57% of 17-29 year old voters, an astounding 22% of Dem caucus turnout. Huckabee won with a similar 56% among those who thought religion was very important, a full 36% of the electorate. This was a vote about identity, about people voting for someone like them, not about issues.
As I wrote on December 11:
[Huckabee’s] success is not about ideology, but identity. For his voters, he’s a Christian first, and a conservative second. Attacking him on conventional conservative issues won’t undermine his core support because it has nothing to do with being a conservative.
Huckabee won women 40-26% (and men just 29-26%). He won voters under $30,000 by about 2 to 1. Cross those two, take away the Republican filter, and you’re talking about a general election constituency that is at least 2-to-1 Democratic. These are not people that conventional primary campaigns are designed to reach. These are the Republican voters the furthest away from National Review, other elite conservative media, and websites like this one. It’s easy to see just how the analysts missed the boat on this one.
The long process warps judgments of frontrunners. A long process is inherently unkind to candidates who seem to be handed down as the anointed frontrunners from above. Iowans take a good long year to vet their candidates, and won’t take cues from intermediaries. This leads to a process where people inherently gravitate to who they want, not who they “should” vote for. A short process begets snap decisions, which benefits the “safe” alternatives, and Obama will have to angle his way into this territory to win.
For most Iowans, the process began months ago. For most Americans, it begins tomorrow and ends 32 days from now. I was struck in 2004 how the day after Iowa I first heard two office workers having a conversation about John Kerry, which was unheard of before then. Most people only engage after Iowa.
Usually, Iowa is a tad more establishment-oriented than its evil twin New Hampshire, but not this year. Probably because…
Conventional organization may matter less in an era of high-stakes, high-turnout elections. Romney’s Iowa chair Doug Gross was quoted as saying that 80,000 was their “magic number” for overall turnout. It’s easy to see why. With 26,000 Romney votes, that would have been good for 32.5% and a win — about the same percentage they got at Ames (where turnout was historically low).
The Romney campaign was an efficient machine that knew who its voters were and turned them out. The problem is that Mike Huckabee’s momentum brought in new voters off the beaten path — more Evangelicals, more women, people lower on the income ladder. Think about this: In the 2000 Caucuses, only 37% described themselves as “religious right.” This year, 60% described themselves as “Evangelical Christians.” That’s an imperfect comparison, but the universe of Evangelical voters almost certainly expanded this year.
In both Caucuses, turnout was well above expectations. This probably represents a lasting shift in American politics in a post-9/11 world. We saw it in the historically high interest and turnout the 2004 election, and it is continuing into 2008. With an electorate that is harder to shape, a paint-by-numbers approach to turnout loses value. You need passion and energy, not just issue matrices and spreadsheets, to connect with the voters not in any turnout universe. (I think President Bush had this in the ‘04 election, and showed how a broader universe could benefit Republicans.)
In a sense, momentum trumped organization in Iowa again tonight.
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Huckabee = LIAR "Any man who would lie to get the job....." Mike Huckabee
Oh really Mike, How do these words taste to you? They are yours. Huckabee Said He Supported The Surge Before Romney. “I supported the president in the war before you did. I supported the surge when you didn’t.” (ABC/WMUR, [Unverified Transcript], Republican Presidential Candidate Debate, Manchester, NH, 1/5/08)
One Year Ago, Gov. Huckabee Did Not Offer His Support For The Surge:
Gov. Huckabee, January 2007: “Well, I’m Not Sure That I Support The Troop Surge.” MSNBC’s NORAH O’DONNELL: “We have a Rudy Giuliani, who supports the president’s plan on Iraq. We have Governor Mitt Romney, who also supports a troop surge. How are you different from any of those candidates.” HUCKABEE: “Well, I’m not sure that I support the troop surge, if that surge has to come from our Guard and Reserve troops, which have really been overly stretched.” (MSNBC’s “Live,” 1/24/07)
New Hampshire is not a tent revival and the Granite State will not be kind to a slick con man.
Now the word is out that Huck's people have entered into a Holy alliance to team up on Romney. Oh yeah that is in the spirit of a free fight in America. Stand and fight yourself or you get painted together. Both McCain and Huckabee have not been tough on immigration. They deserve each other. We don't. |
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“Yes, the first governor (Romney MA) to install universal healthcare” (Mark)
It’s called Universal Coverage. Everyone is required to have healthcare insurance just like auto insurance. The EMPLOYER is the backbone (80%) of this “universal” system. It is NOT one payer/universal such as what Obama/Hillary/Edwards spew. It safeguards YOUR CURRENT EMPLOYER SPONSORED HEALTHCARE COVERAGE and gives an incentive to YOUR employer to keep offering/supplying YOUR healthcare coverage.
You get one of these socialist candidates (Obama/Hillary/Huck) who can actually get close to getting you “universal/one payer” coverage like the “congress has” you can kiss your employer sponsored healthcare coverage GOOD-BYE…YOUR employer will terminate YOUR employer healthcare coverage. There is NO federal law requiring ANY employer to supply you with healthcare coverage…
“universal/one payer”; your taxes will sky rocket, your health care will go down and good luck trying to get a doctor’s appointment. What would it be like at ANY Dr’s office? Try your local DMV office and take a number.
Canada? Don’t make me laugh. They run down here for their healthcare needs. Canada has a population of what? 30 Million? What is the USA? 300 Million? Canada can NOT get it done and WE would go broke trying.
USA government provides healthcare when you reach social security age. Then there is Medicare/Medicaid. WE CAN’T EVEN AFFORD THAT NOW! HOW COULD WE POSSIBLY GIVE IT TO EVERYONE?.....Pie In The Sky.
Get real….Support an ex-Governor, successful businessman, and family man with integrity who CAN BEAT OBAMA AND/OR HILLARY. That man is Willard Mitt Romney………
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Attention cyber Republicans who want the most qualified candidate for America that CAN WIN and put a stop to Obama/Hillary and Huck who ALL are spewing socialism disguised as populism. All the answers for any individual condition reside within one’s Self and NOT THE GOVERNMENT…Willard Mitt Romney back to basics; free markets, free enterprise, lower taxes, self-reliance, and individual responsibility. (And don’t forget those Supreme Court Justice nominations)
…Let’s get it done!….Turn OFF the TV..There is always another football game….Get off the internet boards for a little time and DO SOMETHING!...Enough cyber-chat. Call and talk with some real folks about Romney who vote!
It’s easy to register. I just did. The interface requires flash so if you are running Vista 64bit such as me; make sure you use your 32bit browser.
CallAtHome@MittRomney.com and then visit http://www.MittRomney.com/CallatHome
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CDubber writes: "Religion had *everything* to do with Huckabee's win. Period. Let's stop trying to rationalize it."
If, as now appears probable, McCain beats Romney in NH too, you're not going to be able to explain that away as religious bigotry.
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Please join your fellow Team Mitt members from across the nation for a special Call at Home, tonight, Sunday, January 6, from 5pm – 8:30pm EST and Monday, January 7, from 2pm - 8:30pm EST. Just email "count me in" to CallAtHome@MittRomney.com to participate in this nationwide rally of support and volunteerism for Governor Romney. We will be reminding Romney supporters to turn out for the New Hampshire primary on Tuesday, January 8.
Who: You and your fellow Team Mitt members. Goal: 5,000 callers.
What: New Hampshire Get-out-the-Vote calls.
When: Sunday, January 6, from 5pm – 8:30pm EST Monday, January 7, from 2pm – 8:30pm EST
Where: From the comfort of your home.
Why: Send Governor Romney to Victory in New Hampshire and on his way to the White House!
How: By emailing "count me in" to CallAtHome@MittRomney.com. You will then receive a USER NAME and PASSWORD and simple instructions.
The people of Wyoming took the first step towards bringing true conservative change to Washington. Tuesday the people of New Hampshire will take the next and we need you right there with us.
Ask your friends, ask your family and tell them how important it is that they too make calls from their home. For those of you who participated in this high tech program in the past, you know how easy it is – spread the word!
Tonight is the next step to bring conservative change to Washington. Let's win New Hampshire, let’s win the White House and let’s rewrite the history books.
--The Romney for President Team
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Republicans looking for a presidential candidate to inspire them are now faced with a tax-and-spend religious rightist who would have the federal government regulate everything from restaurant menus to local schools. As Dorothy Parker would say, "What fresh hell is this?" (Cato Scholar David Boaz, executive vice president)
Time to write a check to the Romney Campaign...Enough is enough...I'm getting worried.....McCain is NOT an option...
Hang Tough Mitt....I've got your back!
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Thasic wrote:
Everything else puts him in the Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, Clinton camp.
I suppose we can expect Pelosi to come out in favor of the abolition of the IRS any day now?
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Troy writes:
Why do I get the feeling that Huckabee leveraged anti-mormon bigotry in local church congregations and home school groups to win in Iowa?
Because you believe Hugh Hewitt and not your own eyes. Christians are no longer satisfied with candidates that claim to be pro-life and then default when they get into office. We may be opposed to Romney's religion (his religion says ours is not legit also) but we don't like his arrogance and half-truth campaign against Huckabee.
I got three pieces of literature this cycle. All with Huckabee's name emblazened on them. None from Huckabee. And I researched every claim against him and they were all lies and half-truths. Iowans do their homework, Californians believe what their radio talk show hosts tell them.
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Mr. Ruffini,
Excellent analysis. I think you're right on the money in noting that "momentum trumped organization." And that's a good thing, IMHO. Our political process will be a lot healthier if insurgent candidates who can light a fire under the electorate have a fighting chance against the blow-dried, formally vetted, officially sanctioned choice of the party hierarchies (Hilary, Romney...)
I'm not on board with all of Huckabee's policy positions, but his ability to attract voters without spending a zillion dollars in Iowa gives me some hope for grassroots democracy. Even better, his win made fools out of many of the mainstream media pundits who insist on telling us who we ought to be voting for.
I expect that the Grand Poobahs of the Republican Party are going to be working overtime to insure that Huckabee doesn't get the nomination, but therein lies great risk; the GOP cannot win nationwide elections without significant turnout from the cultural and religious fundamentalists. Any attempt to marginalize them by blocking Huckabee could backfire, and we could be left with a fragmented GOP that is entirely irrelevant. We were happy enough to have the Christian right on board when they were helping us build a Congressional majority and take the White House; I don't see how we can now jettison them without catastrophic consequences. |
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I just want to say God Bless Iowa. And I Thank God for a great win for a social conservative and moral leader.
For all of you folks living in Iowa, I am sorry for all of these fake conservatives saying all kinds of mean things about you just because Huckabee won in your state. Rather you like him or not, this is just ugly and shows these people for being more like the ultra left than they are anywhere near a true conservative.
The American red state conservatives won today, and all you haters need to return to social conservative values and morals. |
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To all you mormon bigots and people spewing all of your anti-Christian hatred,
Mitt Romney lost because he is a millionarre say anything political cannidate that the people did not feel they could trust on the issues of social conservative values. And this was good because he has let us down many times. Romney ran to the left of Ted Kennedy, you guys trying to say he is a true conservative are clearly biased.
Incase you guys don't know social conservative values and morals are extremely important to Evangelical voters.
Thats it, thats all.
You guys spewing your hatred are really looking like the ultra-left gone wild. And believe me, we hear plenty of this type of stuff from the ultra-left and now you guys are acting just like them.
If you want to keep reading it that way then fine, but you are hurting no one but yourselves. Romney lost because he was the fake conservative millionarre establishment cannidate along with Giuliani. They both were an insult to social conservative causes from the begening. |
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evangelicals, its all american working families who want one of their own to lead this country. The ivy league rich image is no longer offering hope for the average american who needs to save for retirement, college and pay high healthcare co-pays every year. Huck and obama seem to represent the average american more than the rest of the group. Romney is too much status quo plus he has a problem with his record that causes distrust on all sides of the aisle and more importantly, he makes up stories like NRA endorsements, being a life long hunter and 'seeing" his parents marching with MLK. YIKES! |
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Any voter who looks at Romney's record and does not get persuaded by negative ads. telling half truths about his opponents will find a shell of a person who is driven by political expediency. Mitt's Money will buy him second place in most states - and that is very good news for republicans if they plan to win a general election where 48% of americans say they would never under any circumstances vote for Romney. Americans want authenticiy and Romney is not authentic on anything! |
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Huckabee reminds me of the fake President Logan in Season 5; to me, they even resemble each other in physical appearance. For those who didn't watch '24', Logan wasn't a good President. Just an observation.
Anyway, Huckabee's foreign policy and illegal immigration policy would destroy this country. |
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Immigration is the threat within that is going to change everything.
In 10 years the hispanics will have cultural and political control. Instead of NJ apologizing for slavery you'll be seeing TX and AZ apologizing for stealing land from the mexicans.
We can see the indian tribes fighting for cessation today - what do you think the mexicans will try to do in 10 years?
You can change the laws on abortion, environment, trade etc. but once we lose the border we can never go back to being a sovereign country.
McCain is liberal on immigration. That is why we must oppose him. Defeat this blowhard in NH and send him packing.
Iowans voted for a preacher - america will vote for a president.
Go Mitt!
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Huck projects Christian love and values and says he refuses to go negative but he surrounds himself with angry, hate-filled people whose job is to do just that. Yesterday Huck thanked 700 bloggers for jamming up the Internet and making his surge possible. They jam the comments sections of every conservative post with vicious, ugly rhetoric. People think it is representative of the population in general but it is not. And it prevents rational dialogue. Real conservatives can unite and march forward to get Mitt elected. We can't give up. We are much greater in number than Huck spammers want to us to think. Elect Mitt in 2008. |
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"Mitt comes off as an unauthentic candidate. That is why Mitt lost Iowa."
So explain to me why Evangelicals voted 6-1 for Huckabee, but non-Evangelicals voted 2-1 for Romney? Somehow only Evangelicals see Romney as "unauthentic" while non-Evangelicals don't, huh? Give us a break.
You can't argue against the numbers.
Or perhaps the implication is only Evangelicals factor moral values into their decisions? A ridiculous assertion, to be sure. But the Evangelicals would have you believe so.
Let me clue you in, Joe. Religion had *everything* to do with Huckabee's win. Period. Let's stop trying to rationalize it. |
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Iowans vote for a preacher - the rest of us are voting for a president. |
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I had to share this with the TH Frednecks:
http://www.stickittopolitico.com/
It’s a GREAT place to donate to Fred (and we can Stick It To Politico!!!
See Redstate too: Posted at 9:48am on Jan. 4, 2008 Crack Whores Run The Politico By Erick
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I have a busy-full life, so I haven't followed Iowa closely except what I get here and realclearpolitics.com, but, Good Grief, nobody ought to be falling on swords!
Mitt has a very strong 'finisher' ethic and the muscle, funds and advisors to back it up. Getting spanked by Water Boy Teddy just toughened him for the Govenorship. Sheeeesh, people. Too much time alone!
WW: Like your comments here of late. Welcome aboard! |
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Interesting statistics from the entrance Fox survey at the Iowa caucus:
Sixty percent of Republicans surveyed said they were Evangelical Christians (Double the caucus in 2004 and 2000.
Sixty-seven of Republican voters said it either matters somewhat or a great deal that their candidate shares their religious beliefs.
The big question is "Will Huckabee's Revival tent travel?"
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People, please. One caucus down, and you're all trying to call the race? Howzabout some perspective, eh?
That said- big ups to the Fred, who showed up, ate at a couple diners, acted like a freaking GROWN UP, and took a third. Didn't run around invoking demons and holy spirits, didn't drop 10 million.
Thasic said:
"..look, maybe there is a little bigotry being tossed at the Huckster, but he is definately tossing back!"
Thasic, come on- don't sell huck short, he's an excellent tosser.
Just Greg said:
"It is high time some one took Huckabees position, ran on faith, genuine feelings and moral conviction."
Faith and feelings...right. That's how I make all my choices- say like with surgeons. Get serious- your boy needs to put down the Bible and pick up the substantive position papers if he wants to convince conservatives like me. Otherwise, he'll get maybe...MAYBE 10% nationwide.
beesh na oobali said:
"Identity politics is a an inherently unstable one-legged stool."
Sadly beesh, it's the nature of politics for lots of stool to make itself evident, stable or otherwise.
Prediction- Giuliani and McCain to fight it out in N.H., huck to tank, fred to tank.
SC- Fred kicks arse, never looks back.
If I'm wrong, oh well- guess the magical empty suit from Illinois will be just SWELL.
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Huck is sounding out a new clarion call for positive populist conservatism and that is what it will take to beat Obama. Huck has crossover appeal and is not yesterday's news. All the sour narcissistic self absorbed conservative commentators who can't understand why the conservative nation is not for their staus quo mo candidate Mitt need to move beyond being caustic-cons and see the future. Don't worry, the same Huck who ran a fiscally sound campaign (compared to wasteful spending Mitt) will not tax your polo ponies Rush. |
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Dear Iowa Republicans,
I’ll put this in language even your tiny little Iowa brains can understand: What the **** is wrong with you people?
The news coming out of Des Moines (literally, French for “tell me about the rabbits, George”) tonight is distressing in the extreme. 32 years ago, your Democratic brethren took one look at Jimmy Carter -- the worst 20th Century President bar Nixon, and the worst ex-President ever -- and declared, “That’s our man!”
Three decades later, and along comes Mike Huckabee. Same moral pretentiousness, same gullibility on foreign affairs, only-slightly-less toothy idiot’s grin. Then you so-called Republicans took a look at Carter’s clone and said, “That’s our man, too!”
And by a pretty wide margin.
I’ll give you some credit where it's due: you guys had sense enough to give Fred Thompson a breather, and Ron Paul a pretty solid kick in the (ahem) nuts. But Mike Huckabee? Really? We’ve seen this game before, and its name is... every other single stupid, un-winnable candidate you’ve ever picked -- which is most of them.
So I repeat the question: What is wrong with you people?
All my love, you corn-sucking idiots,
VodkaPundit
http://vodkapundit.com/archives/009372.php
Too bad Mitt doesn't drink. I think Green would pour him a stiff one. |
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"Count on voters to decide with their hearts, not with their heads"
Why blame us! You insinuate that we are irrational because we don't think like Townhall, Hugh Hewitt, Ruffini, Rush Limbaugh, National Review ... (notice I have elevated you to the same status as Rush :)
I remember reading Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink..." book discussing the limits of money in political persuasion. Mitt exactly demonstrates its truth. No amount of money can overcome the Blink effect when watching a politicion who is perceived insincere. Sorry the voters have more sense than the self annointed blogosphere! Mitt is unelectable, blink. |
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LDS bias is not the problem (granted there is some of that, unfortunately, but it is not the primary problem). Mitt comes off as an unauthentic candidate. That is why Mitt lost Iowa. |
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I suppose we can now eliminate political parties entirely. Candidates can just run on their religion. After all, Iowa voters wanted someone "like me" - meaning, someone who wears the same religious brand they do. "Outsiders" need not apply.
So now it will be the Evangelical Party. The Catholic Party. The Episcopalian Party. The Mormon Party. The Agnostic Party. The Atheist Party. And instead of caucuses, we'll have public prayer circles. Whoever gets the biggest circle wins. What a bright future we have ahead!
Welcome to Sectarian America 2007. Thanks Mike Huckabee ("Christian Leader") and Iowa Evangelicals!
The GOP is doomed if other conservatives think like Iowans. |
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They don't care about anything other than the mistaken and nutty belief that "Huck is God's choice". They are blind to his liberal record, his character flaws, his deceptions, his stupidity on the issues and his shabby campaign tactics.
bigskytopcat, jim bowie, JimM, and a host of others here prove it.
Rush is so right about these poor folks! But don't worry, the rest of us are in full possesion of our faculties. |
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bigskytopcat writes: "Huckabee win the Republicans but he can win back the Reagan Democrats and win over the Hispanic voters."
After assailing and alienating the rest of the Republicans in the Big Tent will the answer Huchabee's call to his revival tent? |
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Now for the rest of the fight.
Don't count Mitt out. He has faced tougher odds than these before and come out the winner in the end.
We want a candidate who can go the distance. Actions will tell the story of which is the sturdier, wiser candidate.
My money is still on Mitt.
Glad Huck won for Iowa's sake and also glad Obama won. Let the games continue.... Silver isn't bad for the first medal.
I expect LDS bias will be less pronounced in NH and in the rest of the states. I hope so. |
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Keep Hugh away from sharp objects...
"Romney Rising" (7/9)
"Romney Rising" (8/7)
"Romney Rising" (8/12)
"Romney Rising" (9/4)
"Romney Rising" (9/23)
"Romney Rising" (11/6)
"Romney Rising" (11/29)
"Romney Rising" (12/1)
"Romney Rising" (12/14)
"Romney Rising" (12/24)
Posted by TS at 9:01 PM
http://instaputz.blogspot.com/2008/01/huckfreude.html
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If the campaign provides any insight to how one will govern consider that Romney spent a ton of money, and did not achieve his objective. (Goliath)
Huckabee faced overwhelming odds, a shoestring budget, minimal staff and organization support, and won through bootstrapping, hardwork, and hustle. (David)
Which candidate truly represents the spirit of America. The Ivy league educated, country club investment banker or the poor baptist minister from flyover country?
Not only can Huckabee win the Republicans but he can win back the Reagan Democrats and win over the Hispanic voters.
God Bless him.
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MR is in freefall on InTrade both nationally and in states. Two person race ... RG and JM in both.
2008 Republican Presidential Nominee 2008.GOP.NOM.MCCAIN John McCain to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 31.5 31.9 32.0 176103 -0.7 2008.GOP.NOM.GIULIANI Rudy Giuliani to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 26.4 29.9 30.1 145477 +4.0 2008.GOP.NOM.ROMNEY Mitt Romney to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 14.1 15.5 14.0 113864 -0.3 2008.GOP.NOM.HUCKABEE Mike Huckabee to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 16.4 17.1 16.8 95296 -0.6
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MR is in freefall on InTrade both nationally and in states. Two person race ... RG and JM in both.
2008 Republican Presidential Nominee 2008.GOP.NOM.MCCAIN John McCain to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 31.5 31.9 32.0 176103 -0.7 2008.GOP.NOM.GIULIANI Rudy Giuliani to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 26.4 29.9 30.1 145477 +4.0 2008.GOP.NOM.ROMNEY Mitt Romney to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 14.1 15.5 14.0 113864 -0.3 2008.GOP.NOM.HUCKABEE Mike Huckabee to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 16.4 17.1 16.8 95296 -0.6
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Does anyone else needs hip boots to wade through all the BS about Huck here today? Whew!
I'm ever the optimist, though. My party is not going to run over a cliff and elect Huck or McCain.
It is pretty funny to see Hucksters denounce Rush and all the rest. Give me a break.
Evangelicals shot their feet off last night, but not to worry, the rest of us won't.
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Brent, the Correct said: "Huckabee took on Rush Limbaugh, the Club for Growth and even President Bush."
After assailing and alienating the rest of the Republicans in the Big Tent will the answer Huchabee's call to his revival tent?
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Brent, the Correct said: "Huckabee took on Rush Limbaugh, the Club for Growth and even President Bush."
Huckabee also assailed and thus alienated the rest of the Republican base. Hucakbee is a populist practicing identity politics. Huckabee and many of his supporters are defining themselves by who they are not.
Huckabee supporters fervently believe that "strait is the gate and narrow is the way to the kingdom of heaven and few there be that find it." That is all about personal salvation through Christ, Jesus.
Politics on the other hand is the art of the possible where the enemy of the good is the perfect. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's"
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He is a fraud and he has no integrity. That makes him the worst candidate, of both parties. How can anyone vote for someone so untrustworthy and sleazy. He flooded the mailmoxes of Iowa with his negative ads and it backfired. He has lied about who he is. And have you seen him on TV. He looks very robotic and sleek. Yuck.
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PokerGuy writes: "At some point, hopefully soon, thinking will enter the picture."
I certainly hope so. If that does not happen, the big tent coalition will fracture and Obama will be the next President. Emotions are important, but emotions unfettered to reason can also run the Republican party off a cliff. |
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It may motivate you to think anyone against Huckabee is against god but some of us dont need to be reminded that god exists. |
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"Romney made a good point: Huckabee came with an established base in Iowa, while Mitt had to fight uphill to a respectable showing"
Mitt was in Iowa for a year, spend about $10M and had an elaborate organization. Huckabee showed up at the end and came from way behind to stomp him. This was not a uphill battle for Mitt, it was a downhill one. He's totally without core principles and that's why he got beat. |
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rockerisback writes: Romney is the bigot
Here we go again. The anti- Mormon knives are out. |
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Fred has had to respond to "dropping out" rumors because of some posts over at Politico that were nothing more than unsubstantiated it pieces. As for the canard about "fire in the belly," Fred had as grueling a schedule in Iowa as anyone over the last few weeks.
Don't buy into the conventional narrative. Look for yourself. I still think Fred's the man. |
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Jyalai made a good point. We Republicans don't need to go postal over Huckabee's win in Iowa. That is likely to be the apex of his campaign. Meanwhile, if the evangelicals remain involved in the process and vote for the final candidate in November, that will be a good thing.
Patrick said: "This was a vote about identity, about people voting for someone like them, not about issues."
Too true. At some point, hopefully soon, thinking will enter the picture.
Romney made a good point: Huckabee came with an established base in Iowa, while Mitt had to fight uphill to a respectable showing. In a sense, all Huck had to do was show up, and the devout turned out in droves. Romney would likely have seen a similar phenomenon had the first primary been in Utah.
People should keep that Huckabias in mind. It is a major part of the big picture and temporarily papered over all of Huck's many serious flaws. And I won't mention the attack ad he made (Oh wait, I just mentioned it!), but wasn't going to show, but showed to a large press assembly he called, but which showed anyway. This speaks worlds to the [lack of] character of the man.
Voluble man-child or slippery preacher. Iowans who contributed should be proud.
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Nobody writes: "Those who hate to be reminded that God exists don't like Huckabee."
Nobody declares takfir* on fellow Republicans and asserts that Evangelical's specific theology can win the Republican nomination and the White House without the Fiscal Conservatives and Foreign Policy Conservatives. So much for the big tent. Hello President Obama.
* What is Takfir? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takfir |
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he is the one that said he would not appoint a muslim to his cabinet (religious test). His church has being racist and he has never denouced the teachings of the mormon church.
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Laura Ingram just said "We are going to have a Democrat in the White House and it won't be Hillary."
Has Huckabee's win has taken the wind out of sails of the big tent Republicans? |
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The venom is comming out. Those who hate to be reminded that God exists don't like Huckabee. Surely the voters spoke without those opinions. We voted an actor as president, a showman in Bill Clinton,a man who has a hard time expressing himself in W. so what is so terrible in voting for an X Preacher? Get used to it, the voters have sopken. Oldtimer. |
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richard_223 writes: I like Fred
Anyone but Huckabee |
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LloydG Said: Huckabee is the white man's Jessie Jackson profiting from the fight for the oppressed.
Spot on!
Rollins and Huckabee are doing their best to stick the Fiscal Conservative Republicans and Foreign Policy Conservatives in the eye. Identity politics is a an inherently unstable one-legged stool. |
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Huckleberry took on the elite conservative media (Nat'l Review, WSJ, Weekly, FOX) Club for Growth, Bush, Rush, Coulter, Malkin, Hannity, et al and won - big! That tells you something.
While Huckster is a fraud, the conservative populist movement is here to stay. And he tapped into it.
It's going to be a choice between the John Edwards full-blown HugoChavezLite version or the conservative populist model (more main street, less wall street).
When it costs $700 a month to heat your home; 70 bucks for every fill-up, all while your home's equity is tanking, the worshiping of Wall Street and Big Oil (by the elite GOP) is a slippery slope.
The middle class, socially conservative demo ain't buying the Rush-Limbaugh-Sean-Hannity-The-Economy-Is-Soaring BS any longer. |
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Jacob the Syrian Hamster writes: Please support Fred Thompson
Anyone but Huckabee.
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Jacob, I like Fred, but Fred supporters have more enthusiasm than Fred himself, it seems.
Where is Fred going? He needs win, and soon. It won't be NH, and that leave SC. At RCP poll averages, he is trending down, while Huck is moving up, and that is not even factoring in last nights win.
Yesterday Fred was denying he was dropping out. What kind of message is being sent with that? Not a good one, I fear. |
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Brent is proving the point that Huckabee's rise has more to do with Evangelical's feelings of persecution than issues. Huckabee is the white man's Jessie Jackson profiting from the fight for the oppressed.
I believe salvation is a personal thing that people have to find for themselves. I don't believe a political leader can lead a country to it nor do I believe he has any business trying. I heartily defend evangelicals and share their principals but if they are supporting Huckabee because they believe he can lead this country back to god they need to study their faith a little better and realize that the individual has to open his heart to god - they cant be forced into it by laws or lead to it by populist rhetoric. |
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Iowa voters are not bigots. Iowa Dems voted overwhelmingly for a Black man. A watershed moment in American politics.
Iowa voters did not just vote with their hearts. Mitt tried to pass himself of as a conservative, which he is not. The voters smelled this and turned away from him. And they did not like having a rich northeastern elitist try to buy their votes. Iowans were not for sale. |
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I posted this in a different comment thread, so I apologize if you've seen it twice.
I would like to ask you all to support Fred. He has consistently campaigned on serious issues and has been true to his foundational philosophy of Federalism, the basis of conservatism.
He has put forth substantive positions on social security, taxes and illegal immigration. His message in Iowa was genuine and sincere and he never pandered to the people of that state. If you watch the campaign stop videos from his website, you'll see that he repeatedly told Iowans that he was not running for president to do what was best for Iowa, but what was best for the country.
That kind of honesty and candor in support of a conservative message can be a winner.
Please support Fred.
http://www.fred08.com/ |
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The most extreme right wing of the republican party along with the left wing media teamed up to hand the Huckster a victory. Now it's on to media darling 2 in McCain in NH. What a mess. |
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for Huck.He played the religion and class warfare card and 40,000 people lapped it up.This is no where's near what the overall republican base is.This is not a springboard for Huck nor will a McCain win in NH be a spring board for him. Neither of these guys can raise money.I think a lot of people will hold their nose and vote for Rudi before they let either one of these lib-cons near the nomination. It's also a little unsettling that a chunk of the GOP wants a nanny state. |
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Well said I say. I enjoyed reading your piece.
I might add we also reject people telling us everyone is equal no matter what. This is nonsense. You become equal through hard work and good manners. Equality in all its forms must be earned, not handed to one. The only place anyone should be guaranteed equality is in court. Every place else, man must prove his worth or step aside and shut up. |
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Hello all. I as a Mormon do not feel any bigotry toward me in my daily life. I have great evangelical friends and neighbors and I have a deep personal relationship with God.
Gov. Huckabee is entitled to his opinion and so are the voters of Iowa.
What scares me the most is that I filled my gas tank up yesterday for $3.40 a gallon. I have seen my stock and retirement portfolio take serious hits lately. My home equity has fallen. I have one daughter in college and another who will be next year.
I am a small business owner and employ several people.
I am supposed to be the so-called target audience for Gov. Huckabee. I am just the average(although member of a cult)LOL, middle-class American.
I can tell you that he scares me to the point that I would seriously take a look at Obama.
We need leadership and it isn't going to come from Huckabee. Maybe Mitt is not the right guy either but I am sure it is not the former Ark. Govenor. |
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Gloat all you want, but all Huckabee is going to do for the GOP is lose 50 states. Mike Huckabee is the archetype of why so many people dislike pious evangelicals and religious people in the GOP. |
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...about the result of the Iowa Caucuses is that Romney has been in places like this before and come out ahead. His team will continue to fight and continue to grow. Huckabee on the other hand is obviously never seen anything like what's happening to him. I've read Romney's classy statements after last night and will be interested to contrast them with what Huckabee said. I'll be back with my reaction. |
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Not voting for someone because of issues. Ok.
Truth is there was so much anti-Catholic propaganda against Brownback followed by the anti-mormon fliers, phone calls, brochures, emails, literature, and the never ending TV commentary, including several interviewed people who flat out stated "I will not vote for a Mormon" if they would have said "I will not vote for the Jew" or "I will not vote for the black guy" they would be called bigots. But if someone says it about a mormon? who gives?
Still bigotry. BTW it is also hate speech and when sent illegally through the mail in a threatening manner to affect an election, violation of federal election laws (and hate crime) all being investigated by the FBI and the DOJ (First Freedoms division).
Just Greg-Mormons moved to Utah because they were hunted down in the USA. No religious freedom in America and so they left the country. My ancestors left Europe on the mayflower seeking religious freedom...then some of my ancestors were kicked out, again for religious freedom (Rhode Island) then kicked out of NY...Ohio...Missouri (governor signed extermination order) then Illinois (even though Mormons helped that gov'ner get elected) and finally left into mexican territory (utah desert where nobody wanted to live because it was desolate). I ain't runnin' no more.
Bigotry is ugly and it must be called out. |
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I’m doing plenty of my own thinking. I was married to a Sunni Muslim from Algeria (a true African American as he was actually born on the continent) for more than 8 years and became very versed on what religious bigotry can look like, so I call them like I see them. And Mike Huckabee’s demeanor and words about Mitt’s religion is very reminiscent of the Sunni/Shiite doctrinal hate fest. You and Medved can call it venom, but I see nothing wrong with speaking out loudly about religious intolerance. My gosh, Huckabee won’t even acknowledge Mitt’s faith. BTW, I know plenty of evangelicals who’ve told me about the anti-Mormon pamphlets that are passed around at gatherings. So don’t play dumb.......you know.
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Huckabee won the day because he called on a deep religious bigotry in the Christen faith. His win in Iowa only proves that no amount of money, time, effort or class can quell deep seated religious hatred. Huckabee has confirmed every left/MSM bias about GOP social conservatives and their prejudices about people who don't pray the way they do or pray at all. And then he added some class warfare rhetoric to the mix to make sure his negative elixir went down easily. Iowans did no favor to the GOP today....sad day. |
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By your very presence here we are to assume you to be conservative but by and large your comments against evanglicals, Christians and Mike Huckabee show that most of you are liberal, conservative wannabes. If you can not see past your own bigotry and falshoods and get behind the only truly conservative, faithful, honest and forthright candidate in Mike Huckabee you all should just move over to moveon.org.
For once we have a man who is running on his true moral convictions and priciples rather than some hyped up and flip flopping "Romneyspeak" to whatever his current audience wants to hear bs. It is high time some one took Huckabees position, ran on faith, genuine feelings and moral conviction.
Mike Huckabee is not pefect but he is the real deal. What you see is what you will get and I, along with all of the evangelicals and conservatives we can muster here in the south, are getting on Mike's bandwagon and we believe this man can win and not buy his way to the White House.
It is time for you pretend conservatives to go ahead and take off your masks and be honest about who you are. This place has become Mitthall.com and you should just admit you are not really conservative but a liberal lunatic just like Mitt. Your rhetoric and bashing need to be elsewhere. Why don't all of you get togehter with slick Mitt, see if you can find the prophet Joesph Smith and go off and blog together in Utah. At least then you would be confined to one state rather than the whole country and God forbid the White House.
Mitt can't buy away his lies, flip flops and true socially liberal ways. The cat has been loosed and Mitt is doomed. The only real hope left for us true conservatives is to Elect Mike Huckabee President of the United States!!!!
Go Mike!!!!We are voting for you!!!!!!
Bowdon, Ga. |
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By your very presence here we are to assume you to be conservative but by and large your comments against evanglicals, Christians and Mike Huckabee show that most of you are liberal, conservative wannabes. If you can not see past your own bigotry and falshoods and get behind the only truly conservative, faithful, honest and forthright candidate in Mike Huckabee you all should just move over to moveon.org.
For once we have a man who is running on his true moral convictions and priciples rather than some hyped up and flip flopping "Romneyspeak" to whatever his current audience wants to hear bs. It is high time some one took Huckabees position, ran on faith, genuine feelings and moral conviction.
Mike Huckabee is not pefect but he is the real deal. What you see is what you will get and I, along with all of the evangelicals and conservatives we can muster here in the south, are getting on Mike's bandwagon and we believe this man can win and not buy his way to the White House.
It is time for you pretend conservatives to go ahead and take off your masks and be honest about who you are. This place has become Mitthall.com and you should just admit you are not really conservative but a liberal lunatic just like Mitt. Your rhetoric and bashing need to be elsewhere. Whay don't all of you get togehter with slick Mitt, see if you can find the prophet Joesph Smith and go off and blog together in Utah. At least then you would be confined to one state rahter than the whole country and God forbid the White House.
Mitt can't buy away his lies, flip flops and true socially liberal ways. The cat has been loosed and Mitt is doomed. The only real hope left for us true conservatives is to Elect Mike Huckabee President of the United States!!!!
Go Mike!!!!We are voting for you!!!!!!
Bowdon, Ga. |
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....look, maybe there is a little bigotry being tossed at the Huckster, but he is definately tossing back! He was the one that said something about Mormons believing satan and Jesus were brothers, right? If that isn't a loaded statement (actually a question from the Huck man) than I don't know what is. That may be the crowning jewel of his personal bigotries but certainly not the only attempt at inciting his base. Look over some of his other speechs or sermons, whichever you prefer.
I think he is a nice guy, but he is a politician first and foremost, a christian second. He wants this real bad, bad enough that he will do shady things to get it.
Besides all that, his record shows he is a liberal in all ways but religious belief. The only stand he makes that is conservative is his attitude against gays, against abortion and for the family. Everything else puts him in the Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, Clinton camp.
Me, I'm pro family and anti abortion too. But I am also pro conservative, anti illegal alien, pro capitolism, anti tax, anti big government/nanny state. The Huckmiester is not. |
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But from the numbers I am hearing, he is doing something that hasn't happened since 1994. He is re-awakening the evengelicals to get back in the process. If 60% identified themselves as evangelical, then a large number of non-voters have decided to get involved. It will be good for the party.
I started in politics back in the late eighties with many of my evangelical friends. We were going to change the system. We were all for states rights, limited federal government, life, lower taxes, less spending, strong families, and independence. Many became discourged when change didn't happen fast enough. They went back to their families and jobs. I've stayed in it, because I know it takes a lifetime of fighting to make change happen. But it happens.
Huckabee is not the right cadidate for where we need to go as a country, but if all those new voters who showed up in Iowa vote for the right candidate in the general election, Iowa will stay red. Mission Accomplished.
As an evangelical myself, I am going to redouble my efforts to make sure new voters coming from this bloc study the issues more carefully. But don't bash them, especially if they are new to the process or the Republican party. Educate them.
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NumbersUSA.com the leading immigration reform group in the country ranked the candidates in an email yesterday you can get teh info at their website but but its Duncan Hunter with 32 points, as Excellent, Thompson and Romney as Good and Huckabee and Ron Paul as Fair, all the Dems are Bad. This is the reality of the current situation not the drivel you get on talk radio with its lazy biased gullible distortion machine. Romney I don't like as a candidate, but on this issue he is apparently legit though he flips floped on national TV, Hucakabee is also flip floping all over the place but TANCREDO someone whose opinion actually matters as credible thinks Romney is legit and he pursuaded NumbersUSA that Romney is legit on this. |
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Because you let other people do your thinking for you, Troy.
You can do it Troy. You can spend a few hours on the web and filter out the opinions of others and get to the truth. By yourself.
C'mon, Troy. You can do it!
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someone on this site said yesterday that InTrade was not reliable. When you go back over the last few weeks, you will see they "front ran" the result.
here is the new InTrade reality (Rasmussen is mirroing it) McCain 6+ over RG MR collapse and MH moving up
2008 Republican Presidential Nominee 2008.GOP.NOM.MCCAIN John McCain to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 31.5 32.7 32.5 175984 -0.2 2008.GOP.NOM.GIULIANI Rudy Giuliani to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 26.0 28.0 26.0 144955 -0.1 2008.GOP.NOM.ROMNEY Mitt Romney to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 14.0 15.8 15.0 113659 +0.7 2008.GOP.NOM.HUCKABEE Mike Huckabee to be the Republican Presidential Nominee in 2008 M 17.5 19.0 17.5 94606 +0.1
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Why do I get the feeling that Huckabee leveraged anti-mormon bigotry in local church congregations and home school groups to win in Iowa?
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sheryl and HNAV,
Bet some of your best friends are blacks and Jews, too, huh?
Your bigotry is disgusting. You again broadbrushed people that you know nothing about, and certainly not what motivates them.
"sincere concern"? Please! Even Michael Medved said on the ugh Hewitt show that he can't believe the venom that was first thrown at Huckabee. Read his latest blog post here on Townhall. Then you'll have a few facts, so you can make up your own mind. You might try doing your own thinking for once.
By the way, I'm not supporting Huckabee. I don't expect him to win. I just don't like it when people make bigoted statements about someone that are wrong. you 2 fit the definition well.
Please call your Grand Wizard at the local Klan and ask for new material.
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dantana,
What you wrote above about evangelicals methodical work is true. I don't see that changing. But I do see th Republican Party changing. The fiscal conservatives are going to have a shock if they don't wake up. Middle class conservatives are angry that the rich wing of the Republican party worked so hard for the Bush Tax Cuts (a good thing), then showed they don't give a d*** about the AMT. It's still there after 7 years of Bush and after 6 years of a Republican Congress. And snagging more middle class every year!
And as for Rush's great indignation on the AMT? Please! He's far more concerned with his "death tax" (which should go, but not before the AMT). That's not principled fiscal conservatism - that's "class warfare", Rush style. "I've got mine, and I'll throw some bones to the social cons and National Security cons so they can help me keep mine." Rush's listening audience is aging - and growing smaller. Young conservatives (under 44)are not tuning to Rush these days - he was great in his day, but like CBS, his constituency is older conservatives (and a few, well younger single issue conservatives). He doesn't care about you. Rush was great in the past. But that's what he is: the past. But just like the Railroad Owners of the early 1900's they hung on, unaware they were slowly but surely out of touch, until the world passed them by.
Some advice: Copy down these comments and look at them 2 years from now. Either Rush will have changed - or he will no longer be number one in radio. Bet on it. |
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i have to agree with the context of your first statement.
Huckabee is a weak liberal populist, who even lied about Mr. Bolton advising him.
Iowa gave the nod to Pat Robertson...
when i read the Huckabee supporters expression, it was filled with bitter, hostile, angry denial for the sincere concerns with Huckabee's massive taxation, spending, and pardons.
very regretful. |
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Nice try, but your bigotry projection is stupid. Your candidate drew first blood on religious hatred. I have no ill will for evangelicals. Only the ones, like Huckabee, who are so blinded by their own righteousness that they deem others heretics or what Muslims call infidels. But even the Muslims don't call other people of faith infidels...no that dubious ugly distinction goes to the pious GOP evangelical's who can't bring themselves to vote for a Mormon and even go further and deny Mormon's God & Jesus. And I'm damn proud that I have that feeling for them. Huckabee is an ugly man to the core. Can't stand him and will actively campaign against just so these pious evangelicals don't put their mullah in the White House. |
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Brent, you wrote, "...the Republican Party will not win putting up the same old mold."
I agree. Stale, old mold isn't fresh and doesn't garner much energy. |
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This guy won't win another state. He's an anti-intellectual joke. He'll lose in NH, and he will lose all the large states that are coming next. So, all the Huck lovers better enjoy it now. Give him credit, though: He played Iowa perfectly. |
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.........Republicans must wake up, or say hello to bad Supreme Court appointments and Democrat taxes for years to come..........
The evangelicals have made progress in the judiciary because they have worked to elect ELECTABLE establishment Republicans while demanding conservative judges. The progress has been painfully slow but steady.
Now evangelicals feel they can walk on their own without moderate Republicans and independents?
If they succeed in nominating Huckabee, they will destroy all they've worked so hard to attain in the judiciary....the branch of our system that matters when it comes to the defining social issues evangelicals obsess over.
Huckabee will get rolled. |
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You are truly an idiot of the first magnitude. Please don't waste our time with your nonsense. |
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sheryl, your deep seated religious bigotry towards evangelicals being involved in politics is showing. You just slandered me and all other evangelicals with a broad brush. That is the very definition of bigotry. I'm surprised you are proud of it.
I don't see Huckabee winning, but I can guarnatee you that the Republican Party will not win putting up the same old mold.
To evangelicals - and the majority of young conservative voters (under 44) - Rush Limbaugh is not gaining listeners - in fact, he's losing younger listeners. They're not converting over in their late 40's. The Club For Growth is not respected in the majority of evangelical voters(read Southern Baptist Conservatives/Calvary Chapel Conservatives); it is seen as placing wealth and tax policy - indiscriminately applied - above moral issues.
Sorry your guy didn't win, but you don't have to go all KKK about it.
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most Republicans don't want a mullah in the White House. |
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"He took on Rush Limbaugh, the Club for Growth and even President Bush. The old guard threw everything they had at him, and their diminished power is now exposed."
He did nothing of the sort. He exposed a deep religious bigotry and people went for it. Period. If you have ever been around an evangelical event you'd know that.
Add to that ingredient, some class warfare and evangelical Iowans ate it up.
Romney may have spent 20 to 1, but that only proves that no amount of money, time, effort or class can undue a deep seeded religious bigotry that is then topped off with class warfare.
Huckabee said something about losing ones soul when he "didn't" run the negative Romney ad, well he just helped the GOP lose some of it's soul.
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The Reagan "mantle" was great in it's time. But that is the past. The Republican Party must change. As David Brooks says about Huckabee in his NYTimes column tomorrow,”Most importantly, he (Huckabee) sensed that conservatives do not believe their own movement is well led. He took on Rush Limbaugh, the Club for Growth and even President Bush. The old guard threw everything they had at him, and their diminished power is now exposed.
“A conservatism that recognizes stable families as the foundation of economic growth is not hard to imagine. A conservatism that loves capitalism but distrusts capitalists is not hard to imagine either. Adam Smith felt this way. A conservatism that pays attention to people making less than $50,000 a year is the only conservatism worth defending."
Peggy Noonan is also beginning to realize that conservatives must change. She writes of Huckabee's supporters in her Column in tomorrow's Wall Street Journal, “ the thing really pushing his supporters, is that they believe that what ails America and threatens its continued existence is not economic collapse or jihad, it is our culture.
"They have been bruised and offended by the rigid, almost militant secularism and multiculturalism of the public schools; they reject those schools' squalor, in all senses of the word. They believe in God and family and America. They are populist: They don't admire billionaire CEOs, they admire husbands with two jobs who hold the family together for the sake of the kids; they don't need to see the triumph of supply-side thinking, they want to see that suffering woman down the street get the help she needs."
Republicans must wake up, or say hello to bad Supreme Court appointments and Democrat taxes for years to come.
Your move. |
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