Friday, February 22, 2008
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McCain Blogger Call
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Posted by:
Matt Lewis at
5:04 PM
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We just completed our semi-weekly McCain blogger call, and as hard as it is to believe -- my question (which McCain didn't really answer, by the way) -- was the only question about the NYT story.
I think that's amazing, but I guess it shows how quickly yesterday's "big story" has evaporated.
McCain actually spent a lot more time talking about Raul Casto, calling him the, "epitome of evils of that regime," for his role as a ruthless executioner during and after the revolution. He also criticized Obama, saying that meeting with Raul would be, "legitimizing him and his regime" at a time when the regime may be on its last legs.
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The RNC has managed to nominate the author of the last amnesty bill. They wanted to make sure that we who oppose amnesty would not have any choice in this election. We do have the option of voting third party or a write in. I intend to exercise that option. The argument that it is cutting off our nose to spite our face does not hold water. If the nose has a cancerous tumor the size of a RINO horn that will kill the patient, the prudent thing to do IS to cut it off. |
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What's hypocritical about McCain (and I could make a very long list) is that he preaches about right and wrong but when he acts, he defends himself via lawyers arguing that it is technically legal. People who preach do what is right, not only what is legal. Is that a point that you can comprehend? |
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I guess we're going to find out. The DNC (sister team to the RNC) has filed a formal complaint to the FEC. McCain is no different than the Clintons. The McCain-Feingold bill only exists to keep incumbents in power. |
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I enjoyed it as well. Take care. :) |
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Aye Dan, Conservatives rock. :-D
Oh, Ryan01, if ONLY Ron Paul had been willing to take responsibility for the Pottery Barn theory of Iraq ("You break it, you own it"), I'd have joined the Ron Paul Revolution in a heartbeat! The biggest thing that really turned me off about his candidacy was his willingness to precipitously leave Iraq without securing the country and rebuilding the nation. So much blood and treasure has been invested in that goal that I simply could not support turning on a dime and checking out when the surge appears to be successful and Al Qaeda self-reports that they are in disarray and on the run.
I really appreciate everyone who's posted here for forcing me to look into all aspects of my chosen candidate fully with eyes wide open, and confront several realities that aren't pretty but are nevertheless part of John McCain's political baggage. Thanks for a smart, honest, balanced, and most of all, civil debate.
Take care, all. |
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Oh, Ryan01, if ONLY Ron Paul had been willing to take responsibility for the Pottery Barn theory of Iraq ("You break it, you own it"), I'd have joined the Ron Paul Revolution in a heartbeat! The biggest thing that really turned me off about his candidacy was his willingness to precipitously leave Iraq without securing the country and rebuilding the nation. So much blood and treasure has been invested in that goal that I simply could not support turning on a dime and checking out when the surge appears to be successful and Al Qaeda self-reports that they are in disarray and on the run.
I really appreciate everyone who's posted here for forcing me to look into all aspects of my chosen candidate fully with eyes wide open, and confront several realities that aren't pretty but are nevertheless part of John McCain's political baggage. Thanks for a smart, honest, balanced, and most of all, civil debate.
Take care, all. |
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I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on voting for Mr. McCain; however I am glad to see that you have been informed about the issues before making your decision. You say you trust him on picking conservative judges, and hope that he's learned from his other mistakes. I am not willing to take that risk. I will choose to let his past actions provide a guide for what I can expect from him in the future. I certainly hope you are right and I am wrong, but I will be voting 3rd party in November. Here's to conservatism! |
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Dan, he definitely had a huge part in McCain Feingold, it was a big mistake that I hope he regrets it as much as we do. Surely you and I can both enjoy the irony that the liberal SCOTUS judges, especially Ruth Bader Ginsberg, voted for a campaign finance law that even the ACLU was opposed to. What was up with THAT?
But I'd rather focus on what McCain said at CPAC (h/t to Powerline, http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/02/019744.php) : "I intend to nominate judges who have proven themselves worthy of our trust that they take as their sole responsibility the enforcement of laws made by the people's elected representatives, judges of the character and quality of Justices Roberts and Alito, judges who can be relied upon to respect the values of the people whose rights, laws and property they are sworn to defend."
If conservative judges had been in the majority at the time McCain-Feingold was enacted, we would be having a different conversation today. John McCain has made mistakes, big ones, but I still believe that on his worst day he is still a better prospect than the leadership of Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. I intend to take him at his word to retain conservative judges, seek free market health care solutions, secure the border before implementing a comprehensive immigration plan, responsibly secure and win the conflict in Iraq, confront Iran, reign in pork barrel spending, and keep his promises on taxes and supporting human life. |
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What was so bad with the vote in 2000? That Gore lost? Whose fault was that?He ran a mediocre campaign.Could not decide who he was.Three terrible debates(which he lost).Then when he was losing in Florida,he decided he wanted a recount.Not the entire state,mind you,just the precincts that he knew were heavily for him.After all the "hanging chads,pregnant chads" and all that other circus,the courts stopped it.Count ALL or count none.Gore lost and several independent counts have proven it,time and again.He is a sore loser.Now he is losing the stupid "global warming" argument. |
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Finally this:
"Ego tutela, proinde ego sum Libertarian."
If that is direct to me I am not. I am a paleoconservative, but I do have a very strong streak of libertarian in me when it comes to civil liberties. :)
We'll agree on some of the things here, but not all of them. Thoughtful posts on your part. |
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Dan covered one offense above. I would add McCain's support the various pieces of legislation that empowered the executive at the expense of the legislature. His vote to give power that was solely the responsibility of the legislature in Oct. 2002 to allow Bush to go to war when it is Congress' responsibility to do that. I'll add granting Bush "fast track" authority when it comes to these various "free" trade agreements. I could find more if I wanted to take time. In any event on most of these McCain has plenty of company in passing this wretched legislation-- most of his fellow senators.
As far as McCain being a clown I use that word for in lieu of a worst one I'm tempted to use. I'll put it this way with one example and this pertains to policy. McCain attempting to ramrod that amnesty through. I object to that for cultural reasons and economic reasons and it indicates to me that McCain either suffers from appalling judgement or he is attempting to reward campaign contributors for services rendered. Another way I consider him to be a clown and a dangerous one at that is based upon his utterances about having more wars and not caring if we are in Iraq for the next one hundred years. Comments like that combined with a nasty temper make me pause and reflect "do I really want this man next to the 'football?'" I think not.
"So why don't I blame John McCain for violating the Constitution? Because I know that the horribly dirty politics of the 2000 Presidential campaign led him down this road in the first place, and that he was the designer but not the implementer."
I think you have this misworded possibly, but I think I get the drift of your meaning. This is the best reason of all to elect people of knowlege and character, like Cong. Ron Paul, so as not to find oneself in this position.
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Con4Fred, with all due respect, I did check out the links to the videos that you listed above. I know that you and Ross Perot and Ted Sampley and many others are convinced that McCain betrayed the POWs and their families. I know that Perot continued to believe that American soldiers were alive in Southeast Asia, while McCain came to see such stories as a cruel hoax. I've heard McCain's story of the war widow who divorced her second husband and went into debt chasing ghosts in Vietnam, only to find she had been conned by profiteers. I've said that my heart goes out to these families, and that I deeply sympathize with their grief and loss.
McCain has said several times over the years that the myth of live POWs was a cruel hoax on the families. He chaired hearings into the issue in the 1990s and found nothing. The committee did an exhaustive job and pored over thousands of records and every claim of a sighting, no matter how outlandish. His findings indicated that it was all untrue. Again with all due respect to your side of the issue, I am choosing to trust McCain in this matter.
As for McCain's votes against the Veterans Health Benefits, I can only assume he was being a fiscal hawk as usual. Personally I would be happy to pay more taxes for veterans benefits, that is one of the few areas along with national security where I feel that way. I was thrilled to learn that Bill O'Reilly is overseeing a bipartisan push by NY Congressman Peter King and Senator John Kerry to expand VA benefits in the areas of health and education, extending benefits to family members as well as to vets. |
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I don't buy the argument that we should let McCain off the hook for McCain-Feingold just because President Bush signed it. Bush should be held accountable for this too - absolutely! As for the SCOTUS, do you know who the judges were that uphelp it? Stevens, O'Connor, Souter, Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer. Are these the kind of judges you want to side with your candidate? Rehnquist, Scalia, Kennedy, and Thomas all voted against it! I'd much rather be in agreement with the latter rather than the former.
The bottom line is McCain championed this legislation and he's as much responsible for it as anyone else! I don't really care what happened to him in the 2000 election. It may have been "dirty" but it was completely consistent with the Constitution and that's all that matters! |
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Many of John McCain's dissenters,of which I am one,at this time,may have sympathy for what he withstood in Vietnam.No person should have been tortured to that extent.How it all came about and how it ended is a moot point now.
However,unless it has left him unstable to the point that he has no loyalties left for anyone,he can be blamed for the votes he has taken during his tenure as Senator.
He has courted the Democrats (liberal and moderate)as long as I have watched him.Even contemplated running with John Kerry and also going over to the other side (literally).The ONLY reason the liberal media loved him was that they could use him,and he was a willing participant in the love affair.
He is all we have at this time.I hope he can change some minds as he is, at least,better than the other side's candidates. |
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Dan, I understand that many including the Ayn Rand Institute, the NRA, and many, many other conservatives and Libertarians feel that McCain Feingold violates the 1st Amendment because the right to free speech means the right to express one's ideas, which includes the right to financially support and publicly endorse or oppose candidates for political office. Political advertisements, like campaign contributions, are a means of disseminating one's ideas and values. Prohibitions limiting the content or timing of political ads, like prohibitions on campaign funding, are an assault on free speech.
This is a great example of real imperfection. First of all, President Bush is charged with supporting the Constitution of the United States, and he decided to sign this bill rather than to veto it. Second, the Supreme Court of the United States is also charged with the same task and they have not challenged this bill. In fact, the Supreme Court's ruling in FEC v. Colorado Republican Federal Campaign Committee, No. 00-191, restricted the ability of political parties to coordinate spending with their chosen candidates. The list goes on.
I'm even aware that one of the biggest real problems with this bill is that it opened the door to the Shadow Party of George Soros. There are few if any areas in American politics where this individual does not have tentacles firmly entrenched, and I'm equally aware that his agenda is to implement a one-world government, etc.
So why don't I blame John McCain for violating the Constitution? Because I know that the horribly dirty politics of the 2000 Presidential campaign led him down this road in the first place, and that he was the designer but not the implementer. In my mind, the real violators of the 1st Amendment regarding McCain Feingold were President Bush and the U.S. Supreme Court. Please look into it, and thanks for your polite and patient response. |
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When you wrote this....
"I would really like to see how well any of us in this blog would hold up under horrible, untreated, unmedicated injury sustained during a plane crash followed by continuous torture."
It proved to me that you have no idea what the issue is here. The issue is NOT whether McCain broke after being tortured numerous times. It's the coverup of his working with the enemy. In his quest to get this info forever sealed, led to the closing of the books on any POW's still left behind in Vietnam. Anotherwords, he turned his back on any POW's still in captivity just to cover his own a**!
If you had actually looked at the links I gave you would have known this. I'm not upset that he broke and worked with the enemy. How long could you or I last? I'm guessing not long. It's the coverup costing more lives of people he swears he cares about.
While were on this subject.... ask John McCain why he voted a total of 6 times AGAINST increases for veterans health benefits. |
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You wrote:
" I fail to see how John McCain has violated these articles, or the Bill of Rights amendments."
Allow me to remind you.
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
If you do not understand how McCain-Feingold was a direct violation of this amendment then I'm not sure what to say.
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Having a set of principles means having a rule or code of conduct, and I agree with Ryan that the rules we should be holding our elected officials to is the Constitution of the United States, period. Perfection is not a principle, it is an ideal.
I read somewhere that there were a couple of little Amendments, called the 5th and 6th, that indicate we should follow due process when we accuse people of high crimes, and that in such cases a speedy trial by an impartial jury is expected as opposed to a virtual e-lynching by opinionated sycophants of a rigid and extreme ideology.
Ryan, having re-read the Articles of the Constitution at http://www.consource.org (always a good decision, thanks for reminding me) in the areas of legislative, executive, judicial and states' rights, I fail to see how John McCain has violated these articles, or the Bill of Rights amendments. Please let me know if you believe I've been remiss in my analysis, and precisely why you would refer to Senator McCain as a grotesquely dressed comedy performer in a circus, aka clown...?
As for McCain's Democratic "friends", I particularly appreciate the fact that this candidate has an affinity for all kinds of people and seeks common ground instead of only seeing them through the "us" vs. "them" lens that is the currency of the far right and far left wings. Like it or not, most of the people in this country are somewhere in the middle and actually enjoy working together even if we don’t agree on everything. I do it every day at work and I expect my leadership to do it as well. Oh, I know that's a form of apostasy to “true conservatives” but I'm not the least bit concerned with being seen as an apostate to some extreme far right agenda.
Ego tutela, proinde ego sum Libertarian. |
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I voted for President Bush both in 2000 and in 2004. Bush's brand of "compassionate conservatism" was far from perfect but he was better than the alternatives Al Gore and John Kerry. I did not like his liberal stance on education, medicare, and other domestic polices but I was willing to compromise because I thought he was the most conservative. Had I know he would be in favor of an amnesty bill, I would not have voted for him. I'll only tolerate so much liberalism from a Republican candidate, but once they indicate that the rule of law is no longer important, that's when they lose my vote.
I vote for Bush the first and second times, but no way would I vote for him a third time if I had the opportunity. |
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Just want someone who will uphold the oath of office. You know to defend and protect. I didn't think it was too much to ask. Apparently it is.
The primary responsibility of the U.S. government is to protect the territorial integrity and people of this country. They have completely abdicated this responsibility. Both parties have been complicit in this. We are being told it is not possible to control our borders, enforce our laws, and thereby control our destiny as a nation. Hogwash. We are being sold out by corporations intent on importing workers for jobs that can't be exported with the taxpayers paying the true costs, financial and human. If we act like sheep and don't stop the inundation across our borders, we will lose our country without a bleat.
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For me I am not asking for perfection. I'm asking something totally different. There is a set of rules I consider to be non-ideological. That rule book is known as the "Constitution". It has an annex known as "The Bill of Rights". What is so hard about expecting these clowns that wish to be our rulers instead of our servants to obey them that you don't understand? |
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Since we don't care about issues, why don't we just vote for McCain because Cindy has the nicest tush of all the candidates' wives. |
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McCain's liberal Democratic friends are finally beginning to drift over to defend their "imperfect" friend. Also interesting is how they use that to take pot shots at Republicans and conservatives and make a point to let us know that they will "vote the other way". Decoded: they will vote for Obama this time. Since arguing over imperfections is silly, why don't we all vote for Nader, I hear he's imperfect too. Let's not get all caught up in icky facts and principles. |
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It's so easy to expect these people to be perfect, instead of being realistic. Ideals are goals worth seeking and working toward, they are not common, everyday behavior. Any student of classics, literature, history, art, theater and civilization in general understands this. Perhaps high school teachers, university and college professors are only teaching a cult of idealism now. It seems the media has certainly moved in that direction ever since the 1960’s. This would explain why a lot of disgusted, angry, disappointed voters believe they’ve fallen short of perfection themselves, feel overwhelming guilt about it, and are projecting those feelings on their political leadership.
Realistic means that no one is perfect. Realistic means weighing the positives against the negatives and choosing the best option in your opinion. It means holding others to the same standard that you hold yourself to. Do you actually hold yourself to a standard of absolute perfection each moment of each day? If so, then poor you – that’s a set up for failure.
Everyone out here who claims to be sick of ideologues yet demands absolute flawless perfection in their leadership is just as guilty of the ideology of unrealistic expectations and fantasy as those they criticize on the hard right or far left. I don’t think it’s mentally healthy to refuse to cut yourself or your leadership any slack. Allegations of high crimes and misdemeanors really must be verified with actual evidence, otherwise they’re just rumor, gossip and hearsay.
I never cease to be amazed at the hostile and intense immaturity, lack of perspective and self-righteous intolerance displayed by members of both major parties. I will not be surprised when rational, mature, moderate and independent grown-ups have a quiet little political revolution to circumvent the priggish and sanctimonious children of all ages on both the right and left. |
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I agree with you with a caveat. Both parties are guilty of this nonsense. You have the hardcore ideologues who make up a minority of the parties. The rest of them are affected with this sports team crap as in "go team!"
I get sick of the partisan fools on both sides. |
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"Evaporated" in McCain's deepest held fantasy, maybe. Seems the old deceptive Maverick has been holding out on us, doesn't it? He's got ties to Abramoff's old firm, and has effectively been paid off by them to keep the lion's share of the Abramoff scandal documents (over 750,000 of them) out of the public eye. What're in those documents McCain? Details of Abramoff links to the White House, to Rove and to all sorts of GOP shenanigans - which would include McCain.
There's more to this story - the NYT is just teasing us with the tip of the iceberg. Ah, but isn't it grand how the "conservatives" on the right are now rallying around their once reviled candidate? It matters not, it seems, that the man is morally bankrupt - it matters instead to "conservatives" that they win at all costs and create an "us v. them" mentality. "Values Voters" my arse. |
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Lilly, thank you so much. You hit the nail on the head.
What we believe causes us to filter information on or out of our consciousness. I love the Navy, and I love what I perceive to be John McCain's heroism and heritage - emphasis on the word "perceive" because no one will ever know for certain what lies in the heart or mind or past of another. Every single time I read an article that tries to persuade me how evil, vile, and unpatriotic John McCain is, all that does is turn my goodwill against the author.
I would really like to see how well any of us in this blog would hold up under horrible, untreated, unmedicated injury sustained during a plane crash followed by continuous torture. I would never want to disrespect anyone who lost loved ones in Vietnam and have never given up the possibility of finding out that they survived, but I what I'm seeing is that this is a grief that's been carried out for decades and appears to be very poisonous and toxic to the bearer.
Maybe you are all absolutely right about McCain. But Con4Fred, if you know that denial is not a river in Egypt then perhaps you also know that having the serenity to accept the things you cannot change, the courage to change the things you can and the wisdom to know the difference is more important than carrying horrible, toxic resentment around year after year, decade after decade. Forgiveness is the only path toward happiness unless you seriously choose to remain miserable, angry, unhappy for the rest of your natural life. I can't tell you to move on, that's for you and your conscience and your Creator to work out together. But I can tell you that it certainly has worked for me, and perhaps the ones who are lost would rather see the ones they left behind find peace instead of eternal resentment, revenge and retaliation. Just my thought on the subject.
God bless all who are affected by this traumatic issue, and your loved ones. |
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McCain wrote the worst amnesty bill allowing illegals citizenship after a period of time. In the meantime hard working citizens paid out over 300 billion (and climbing) to support people who broke the laws of this county. Now elected officals, politicans took an oath to protect its citizens and uphold the laws of this country. Why are we fighting in Iraq and keeping our borders open. It has been proven that terrorists are crossing our southern border! Remember one was caught crossing our northern border a few years ago by a sharp Border Patrol agent. So now McCain says he will close border but has admited that he will sign an amnesty bill. Over 9million citizens have lost their jobs so far to illegals. And you want to vote for this man? |
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I don't know what McCain ever did or didn't do, and do not mean this as a defense of him (I vote the other way anyhow). But I have noticed something, and that is that the same smear technique tends not to work very well when it's recycled. Maybe it's like telling the same joke twice. Somebody tried starting a story that John Kerry was having an affair with an intern, a la Bill Clinton, and that story lasted about two seconds---it was disproved, debunked, and dismissed. The bit about how unethical and rotten somebody was in combat was wrung dry by the Swiftboat folks so my guess is that it won't be as effective if it's tried on McCain. And people are now pretty alert to pushpolling---they aren't as taken in by it since everybody was so grossed out by the Bush campaign's "illegitimate black baby" story against McCain in 2000. The Clinton campaign tried Election-Day phone calls to seniors in Wisconsin saying that Obama would cut benefits to seniors and instead of rushing to vote for Clinton, seniors notified the media about the phone calls. The smear merchants really have to be more original; people seem to be getting politically smarter and less naive. |
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Here's one more to add to your list. "Red" McDaniel, someone else McCain slimed.
"Speaking of offensive, shameful statements, I wonder how McCain's flacks would characterize his statement that Navy Capt. Eugene "Red" McDaniel (Ret.) is "a fraud and a dishonorable man who preys upon the families of those still unaccounted for in the war." McDaniel, who has been characterized by journalist Monika Jensen-Stevenson as "one of the most tortured Americans in the history of war" (and who, in contrast to Sen. McCain, did not break), had committed the unpardonable offense in McCain's eyes of drafting a letter, signed by fifty of his fellow POWs, urging that our government not lift the embargo on Vietnam until they provided a full accounting of all American POW/MIAs."
http://www.uhuh.com/politics/mccain/mcainwnxs.htm
Unfortunately, so few people care about this and the waters have been muddied, that it is best not even to spend time on it. McCain has enough bad points to disqualify him for president for folks to think about.
I wish both these parties could lose this November. |
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The Orange County Weekly is as liberal a rag as you can get. I read the whole article and it's obvious they have no clue as to what they are talking about.
Maybe instead you should ask these people....
Senator Bob Smith (R-NH), Dr. Joseph Douglass, Jr. (author of “Betrayed: America’s Missing POWs“), Tracy Usry (U.S. Senate Minority Staff), Dolores Alfond (Chairperson; National Alliance of Families), Al Santoli (former Congressional Chief of Staff), Representative Bob Dornan (R-CA), Cpl. Bob Dumas (U.S. Army, (Ret)), Dr. James Lucier (former U.S. Senate Chief of Staff).
All of these people have tried to get people to listen to what McCain has done. Denial is NOT a river in Africa.
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NYT reports a 10 year old story based on thin, really thin information. They made a run at it in 2000 - no legs then either. It is pure tabloid stuff. Robert S. Bennett investigate the K5 for the Ethics committee - said he advised the committee to cut McCain out of the whole issue because he had done nothing even remotely illegal or suspicious - they didn't because it would have left only dems. He stated that this is just smear, everyone who knows McCain says it's smear, the woman and her company says it's smear. The problem is you can't unring a bell - just saying it makes the dems thrilled. The timing is meant to rip and tear at republicans, no surprise there. The NYT supported him when they didn't think he could win - now they are worried so the slime machine goes to work. I don't read tabloids which now includes the NYT. I am voting McCain - can't fool me.
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about McScamnestys' little love feud with his pals at NY Slimes,.....I'll never vote for the lying little "Napoleon wannabe".
I just hope "Huckleberry" gets enough delegates to deny McCain the nomination without "brokering" it.
He needs to have his feet held to the fire. |
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Careful, Roho - since I happen to be a former "Swabbie Deck Ape" of the WAVE variety stationed at the Naval Amphibious School in Coronado during Vietnam ("We aren't going to try to train you, we're going to try to kill you"), you might want to select your nicknames for U.S. Naval personnel a bit more judiciously.
Dan in SC, thank you for the link - actually that was the first site I visited in my so-called research that Con4Fred does not believe ever occurred.
And frankly my dear Con4Fred, I don't give a damn whether you believe I did my research or not. I don't report to you for my merit review. Vote or don't vote however you like, but you make an a$$ out of yourself and your own good name when your opinion about the McCain/POW issue relies on sheer assumptions instead of actual well-documented facts.
Here's what the Orange County Weekly has to say about the veracity of Bob Dornan's attack on McCain: "McCain spent five and a half years in a North Vietnam POW camp and is recognized by his peers in D.C. as a man of unquestionable motives on the Vietnam issue. Except for Dornan, who, true to form, blasted McCain for "selling out" American prisoners of war by supporting normalization.
It was an odd move, even for Dornan. In attacking McCain, he might have drawn attention to his own military record--a record that, despite Dornan's claims, is a reverse image of McCain's. But Dornan had two things working for him in l'affaire McCain: McCain, a genuine war hero if there ever was one, is also somewhat gentlemanly, refusing to engage in Dornan's style of personal politics. Nor were the media likely to do more than they have ever done with Dornan: broadcast his outrages as mere sideshow entertainment, discount his relevance in any debate, and move on without a serious investigation into his record or his motives."
"If you're not gonna pull the trigger, don't point the gun." - James Baker
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"even the liberals (other than whackjob Dean) came to McCain's aide on this one." Even the liberals? When did they NOT side with McCain? Of the Keating Five, he was the only Republican and the only one whose political career did not end (but he did get censured by the Senate for corruption). Of course, he learned his lesson and kept flying corporate jets and buddying up with lobbyists with the best of them. There is no defending corruption. |
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I did not see your post before I posted about the 5 jets he crashed.
Thanks for posting the link. |
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Don't you want to know the truth about the person that wants to hold the office of POTUS?
For the record.... I have been a Republican for 30 years. I have always voted for the GOP nominee because that's what I was told to do. Like an idiot I never questioned my votes. Being very much older now, and very much wiser I now PAY ATTENTION. Electing another RINO only weakens the GOP further. I no longer vote for RINO's, so I cannot cast a vote for McCain.
You can call me all the names you want, it still won't change the truth. |
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I've got the press conference notes already:
Press secretary: "I assure you that there is no truth to allegations that McCain crashed 6 jets"
Reporter: "Mr. Secretary, is it true that he crashed 5 jets?"
Press secretary: "No comment." |
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Ok, if you are so sure that this is bunk, then why did someone as well known and well respected as B-1 Bob Dornan get involved? And why did he allow to be taped while he discussed what McCain did? Bob Dornan is the kind of guy that is very trustworthy. I would trust him with my life, my wife, and my last dollar.
The movies made by both Chuck Norris and Sylvester Stallone evolved around this whole affair. Reports kept getting back to people that there were POW's left behind, but because of McCains actions the government forever closed the books on them. McCain got the whole affair closed and SEALED because he did not want his particular actions made public as it would ruin his political career. These are the actions of a scum bag, not a potential president.
BTW... Bunny, I don't believe you did any research cocerning these allegations. |
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He only lost 5 jets.
Three planes he crashed at different times prior to his deployment to Vietnem. The official word on those crashes is that he crashed them during training missions.
One of his planes was actually blown to pieces while sitting on the deck of a Carrier ship by a fellow pilot. There's no word on whether it was done on purpose or not, but was listed as an accident.
And of course the final plane was when he was shot down.
All of this was kept as low key as possible at the time because he was the son of the Admiral in charge of the Vietnam theater.
All of this is public record, but I cannot find the correct DOD link at this moment. You may find it at VietnamVetsAgainstMcCain.com
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I don't know anything about this sight - it was just a link from a newsmax article about McCain a few months ago. Evidently he crashed 5 planes.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan08/mccain_military_record.htm |
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Roho,
I hadn't heard that McCain crashed 6 planes. Caon you please provide a link to these facts. How did this man get the priviledge of flying combat missions for the United States. It is begining to sound like a chimp has a higher intelligence than McCain. |
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Please, it went nowhere. No one cares about McCain OR Keller. OJ was still guilty after everyone learned that others aren't pure either. Keller is not running for president, McCain is. |
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Wasn't it Romney who was hounded by a reporter about lobbyists "running" his campaign" when there were none? But nary a word about McCain and lobbyists until now. |
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Despite having "learned his lesson" from the Keating Five incident, he continued flying on corporate jets as much as anyone and has as many lobbyists (or more) on his campaign staff as anyone. According to Mark Shields last night on the Nightly Newshour, McCain as raised more "bundled contributitions" than Hillary. For a guy who wants to reform campaign finance, he sure doesn't lead by example. There is a word for people like that. |
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And only had 20 hours combat flying time! He should have been in a jeep after graduating 3rd from the bottom of his Naval Class yet receiving the most amount of demerits! Without 2 former generations of Admirals, he would have been a swabby deck ape. |
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Calling all lobbyists. The John Mccain lobby express is on the way to washington. Get on board.
Bring you checkbooks and your favours. We are only accepting the highest bidders.
Or the best looking females.
Leave your husbands at home.
Get on board the John Mccain Lobby express.
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I think the reason McCain went so easy on the NYT is "he reached across the aisle" and made a deal with them.I believe they have a lot more they can print.They care not if it is true,of course.Heard enough in the media,it will sound like truth.I hope the worst is over concerning the story,but I doubt it. McCain "lived by the sword";he may "die by the sword".As Stan said to Ollie, "a fine mess you've got us in".
He needs to be listening to these conservatives who have made some ultimatums for him.He got this far because of votes from Independents,moderates and Democrats,not conservatives.If he cannot get the Conservative vote in Novermember,he can't win.The others mentioned will not support him then.They only wanted knock out all the other candidates.They did their job. |
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"I think that's amazing, but I guess it shows how quickly yesterday's "big story" has evaporated."
Code for: e-mail fund raiser flopped. No one is paying attention to this guy. |
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John McCain "reaches across the isle" the way that Benedict Arnold reached across the Atlantic during our war for independence.
There's a difference between bipartisanship and traitorism. Had John McCain been able to influence members of the Democrat party to cross the isle and vote for conservative bills, then he would have demonstrated great leadership and loyalty to the cause. But instead he chose to sell out conservatism and go lead the charge for liberal causes. This is not an admiral trait, nor is is something I would be touting if I were him.
John McCain - The Republican that fights with and for Democrats. |
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Don't worry too much about Con4Fred. He/She used to be a decent poster on here, but since McCain has become the nominee, he/she's just been spamming this board with the same crap, day in and day out. I used to see Va Pat the same way, but he's actually begun posting some pretty reasonable stuff, and I actually enjoy reading what he has to say. Hopefully Con4Fred will go back to being a poster who adds something to the discussion, other than constant vitriol for McCain.
As far as the story goes, even the liberals (other than whackjob Dean) came to McCain's aide on this one. It was shameful, and should be gone as fast as it came. |
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http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/ |
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Have to hire Bob Bennett to kill the story back in Dec. if there was nothing to it? Why didn't he come out and defend himself from the accusation? Why did McCain's relationship with this woman appear to be having an affair? Why did the Times endorse McCain if they had this story? Because they hated Romney and didn't want to give him a leg up. Now the media and dems have something else to paint the party as a culture of corruption whether this story seems to have stuck or not. It's not the end of the attacks on McCain and his relationships with lobbyists.It will be death by a thousand cuts on McCain between now and Nov. trying to dent his integrity. Of course I'm still ticked at how McCain kneecapped Romney in Fl. on the timetable thing so I wouldn't dream of defending him on the NY Times story even if I thought there was noting to it and I don't. Where there's smoke,there's fire. |
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Guess you didn't hear that mccain's own deposition in 2002 contradicts yesterday's hasty response, where he denied ever spoke to telecom lobbyist Lowell Paxson. |
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Gee McCain would not answer a question, go figure. Maybe he is afraid that his tendency to double talk would show through. At this time there is absolutely no way that I could support Senator McCain especially when he refuses to answer questions. |
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Also in my research, I came across this story in the Phoenix New Times News, including: "Willbanks and the Hoppers believe that live American soldiers were left behind at the end of the Vietnam War, and that McCain is part of the conspiracy to cover it up. McCain has long contended that there is no proof that live Americans remain in Southeast Asia. The Hoppers have gathered a motley crew of local Vietnam veterans and POW/MIA family members to assist in their crusade against McCain, and have hooked up with like-minded vets and POW kin across the country.
One foot soldier for the cause is Roy Kerr, a veteran from Goodyear who researches McCain's business interests full-time. Around New Year's, Kerr hand-delivered anti-McCain packets to syndicated columnist Arianna Huffington, U.S. Representative Henry Hyde and New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, who were in town for "The Weekend," a conservative confab at the Arizona Biltmore resort. Kerr packaged the documents in manila envelopes labeled "Veterans for McCain," figuring no one would open a package that said "Veterans Against McCain."
The POW/MIA zealots are a dwindling subculture. Mainstream society tends to dismiss the Willbankses, Hoppers and Kerrs as sad footnotes to an ugly chapter in American history.
Stanley Kutler, professor of law at the University of Wisconsin and editor of The Encyclopedia of the Vietnam War, calls the behavior of these people "Sick. If it weren't so sick, it would be laughable. These are not nice people. They are the other side in an ongoing uncivil Civil War in America."
That's all. Look into it.
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I watched the videos, and did the research. It's so easy to talk about "32 tapes of propaganda" when none and I mean absolutely NONE of these so-called tapes are available due to the fact that they are "classified" so that no one can see them. I'm sure in these people's world, John McCain himself was responsible for classifying them. My other favorite conspiracy is that he wanted to prevent the POW's from returning who could "give testimony to these tapes".
Next will you be posting the YouTube video documentary clips that assure us that John McCain was actually the pilot who flew the plane into WTC1?
Much of this propaganda is completely spoken to by the testimony of McCain's greatest supporter, Colonel Bud Day, Medal of Honor - Air Force Cross, DSM, Silver Star, DFC, Purple Heart 3 clusters, Bronze Star 3 clusters WW II, Korea, Viet Nam. Col. Day served on the Code of Conduct review board in 1975. He was a great American who had personal knowledge of the coerced meetings with commie journalist Chalais, and the venerable General Giap. Col. Day says and I quote "McCain was NOT in violation of the Code of Conduct in speaking with him. McCain did not speak against his country or any of our allies..which is what the Code prohibits. The news of his shoot-down was not a military secret, and in fact had been published by the U. S. Navy, just as all combat losses were reported. John McCain did not say anything to Chalais that was improper. The claims by the U.S. Veteran Dispatch is just plain bull. No factual basis. I know because I was there and saw these things personally."
This is really sad stuff - right up there with the New York Slimes. I'm sure you'll get lots of funding from the Democratic trial lawyer lobby so that the Swift Boat Veterans Against John McCain ad will be coming soon to the big screen in my living room. Just pathetic... |
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He is responsible for slamming the door on POW's and MIA's that were left in Vietnam after the war was over. And he did this to cover his own a**.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBiti-ZbeO0&feature=related
The next vid is a follow-up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFM1xqqTX_g
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I saw your comments on another thread about speaking loudly in Norwegian around some of our "uninvited guestworkers". That was so funny. Makes me want to learn Norwegian. |
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Matt, the reason why the NYT story evaporated is because nobody really gave a sh*t.
The Times did what it does: it smeared a Republican...that must make it what? Thursday! They do it every day. The only outrage was felt by McCain folks who thought they were going to get brownnosed by the media forever.
Honestly, whose mind was changed by that article? GOP voters are used to GOP icons getting smeared; McCain voters can forgive 8 years of acting like a democrat; why would they care about this story? Conservatives don't like McCain for his record, his attitude, or the attitude of the GOP. A gun to my head wouldn't make me vote for McCain.
So how was the blogger phone call? Get some new marching orders? Getting ready to preach the true gospel to us relcalcitrant savages on the right? |
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In 2001 he formed the "Reform Institute" inorder to receive donations from George Soros and Teressa Heinz Kerry. Juan Hernandez became his "Hispanic Outreach Director" and Arianna Huffington of the "Huffington Post" has been serving on his "Institute Advisory Board" since it's creation!!......Is this a conservative?
McCain is so stupid, that he has actually had Juan Hernandez on the campaign trail with him, while simultaniously telling the naive conservative base that he supports border security!...Ha-Ha....SEE THE HOME PAGE OF THE CONSTITUTION PARTY, and start voting for real conservatives! |
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I am in 100% agreement with Virginia Patriot and the Big Irishman.... |
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Bout the time he becomes a REAL Conservative, fellow Virginian!
So (Best Ken Curtis doing Festus Hagen Impression here) Mathhhheeeeewwwww is part of The MaChurian Candidate's "Blogger Call", hmmm?
How apros pos or however they spell it.
Wonder who else is part of McAint's McInski Harem?
Still ain't votn for McSame, Mathhhhheeewwww.
See my blog, yeah clickn on the underlined name really works.
mick |
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When he will do the following:
1. Publicly dismiss and disavow Juan Hernandez and the Reconquista for which he stands.
2. Apologize for conspiring in secret with La Raza and Ted Kennedy and trying to jam amnesty down our throats.
3. Pledge to veto ANY amnesty bill.
4. Pledge to enforce the laws, including deportation, which is the penalty for illegal aliens.
It's up to Sen. McCain, he can represent the interests of American citizens and uphold the rule of law or he can continue to court the favor of liberals and illegal aliens.
I'm not voting for the latter. |
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