Wednesday, October 29, 2008
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Obama Jokes About Communism
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Posted by:
Amanda Carpenter at
12:29 PM
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Barack Obama was joking about the GOP's negative attacks on his campaign at a rally in Raleigh, North Carolina today.
He said John McCain is "going to accuse me of being a Communist because I shared my toys in kindergarten, I shared my peanut butter and jelly sandwich."
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Here are the Facts:
1. Senator Bernard Sanders is a self-described democratic-socialist
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a. What this means is lending towards Socialism as I have defined it.
b. Authorizing legislation and voting to his ideology is NOT a stretch to believe this. After all don't Senators vote on their principals?
2. Senator Obama has voted an average of 94% with Senator Sanders.
3. Senator Sanders votes 95% of the time with the Democratic majority.
a. How does this fact make him Independent?
b. Senator Susan Collins voted 67% of the time with her Republican party in 2007 but voted against all of Senator Sanders's legislation (3) that actuality made it to the floor of the Senate.
i. Is Senator Collins more Independent than Senator Sanders?
Conclusion:
If Senator Sanders votes with the Democratic Party 95% of time and Senator Obama voted 92% of the time with Senator Sanders then indeed Senator Obama and the Democratic Party are lending towards Socialism. This does not mean they are Democratic-socialist but may have democratic-socialist tendencies which can be agreeable or not agreeable to the Electoral College depending on your ideology but is not the tradition of American VALUES but seems to be the direction America is going.
There are two Democratic-Socialist one is overt and the other is in Stealth mode in the US Senate based on their voting data and they are Senators Bernard Sanders and Barrack Obama.
I got my Senate voting data at SenateReports.com |
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How do we know if Barrack Obama is a Democratic-socialist? One way to determine this and if he has Democratic-socialist tendencies is to review his voting record in the United States Senate with Bernard "Bernie" Sanders the so-called Independent Senator from Vermont but self-described democratic-socialist.
Please go to http://en.....org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders or http://sanders.senate.gov/ and review Senator Sanders's bio.
Let's review the 110th Congress Session 1 of 2007 Senate Voting Records.
Party Percent is defined as the percentage voting with one's Party Majority either Yea or Nay.
Senator Party Percent Vote with Sanders Percent
John McCain 88% 34%
Jeff Sessions 89% 36%
Jon Kyl 86% 30%
Mitch McConnell (Party Leader) 92% 35%
Bernard Sanders (Independent) 95% 100%
Barrack Obama 96% 92%
Barbara Boxer 96% 89%
Dianne Feinstein 94% 85%
Harry Reid (Party Leader) 96% 92%
If Barrack Obama an average of votes 94% (97% in 2008) of the time with a "Democratic-socialist" does that fact make him and his Democratic Party lending towards "Socialism".
Lending towards Socialism is voting with Senator Sanders over 60% of the time.
Lending away from Socialism is voting with Senator Sanders less than 40% of the time.
Null Lending is between 41% and 59% voting with Senator Sanders.
I got my Senate voting data at SenateReports.com |
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How do we know if Barrack Obama is a Democratic-socialist? One way to determine this and if he has Democratic-socialist tendencies is to review his voting record in the United States Senate with Bernard "Bernie" Sanders the so-called Independent Senator from Vermont but self-described democratic-socialist.
Please go to http://en.....org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders or http://sanders.senate.gov/ and review Senator Sanders's bio.
Let's review the 110th Congress Session 1 of 2007 Senate Voting Records.
Party Percent is defined as the percentage voting with one's Party Majority either Yea or Nay.
Senator Party Percent Vote with Sanders Percent
John McCain 88% 34%
Jeff Sessions 89% 36%
Jon Kyl 86% 30%
Mitch McConnell (Party Leader) 92% 35%
Bernard Sanders (Independent) 95% 100%
Barrack Obama 96% 92%
Barbara Boxer 96% 89%
Dianne Feinstein 94% 85%
Harry Reid (Party Leader) 96% 92%
If Barrack Obama an average of votes 94% (97% in 2008) of the time with a "Democratic-socialist" does that fact make him and his Democratic Party lending towards "Socialism".
Lending towards Socialism is voting with Senator Sanders over 60% of the time.
Lending away from Socialism is voting with Senator Sanders less than 40% of the time.
Null Lending is between 41% and 59% voting with Senator Sanders.
I got my Senate voting data at http://SenateReports.com |
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First, I notice how Obama wants to tax the "wealthy." Obama happens to be one of the wealthy, but I notice he has his money sheltered from the Tax Man. The wealthy will be able to shelter their money, and he will be forced to tax the rest of us who actually make money; those of us who don't make enough to make it worth the accountant's time to hide......
Also, you libs need to see what your redistributionist policies (i.e. welfare) have gotten us already. As a teacher, I see kids who are not really motivated to do well because they feel they are going to get a check from the government to take care of them anyway. Many of their parents have figured out how to get the kids SSI and all kinds of other goodies on my dime, and then you wonder why many schools can't cut it. Government intervention has been harmful to society in many more ways than you can imagine. |
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Another lie.
Obama is generous with his lies and our money.
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OBAMA is marinated in evil, fraud, corruption, scandal, anti American activities, marxism, etc.
MAKE THE CHART
As Germany went under Hitler
so goes the USA under Obama !
There will be NO ONE TO RESCUE the USA from Obama ! |
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to many of us who have carefully followed Barack Obama - his joke is chilling because - if one carefully studies this candidate - the idea of socialist/communist does not sound so far fetched. This is not the first time in history these jokes have been told.
WAKE UP EVERYONE!
McCain/Palin 2008!!! |
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Please put your gigantic brain in gear and explain the "oxymoron" that appeared in my dead on point about how Leftists lie habitually.
This was your less than insightful question, that my brain can't make any sense of. I suspect it is because it's a feeble question that sounds good to people who are adled by their unclear thinking.
"If you don't believe anything he says, how can you be criticizing any of it?"
Yeah! I think Obama is a liar, and yes I do criticize lies. Think hard and you might be able to grasp it.
Bye, bye BM |
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..like his fluctuating tax plan figures he and Obiden keep throwing out there.... His so called non-taxable income ceiling is usually 250k, when it isn't 150k, and/or 125k for singles, etc..
What makes the Suckers think that BHO would have to honor those figure amounts, or anything else he says just to get the keys to the White House??
We know that Obama contradicts his own words & policies according to what audience he is speaking to.. and he is very scripted for national audience in order to sound much more Centrist than he is...
Otherwise, the real Barry would sound more like his longtime radical Pals & Associates.. Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Mike Klonski, Louis Farrakhan, Michael Phleger, and Rashid Khalidi.. |
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Bob, if you look through the thread, you will see how Bush got brought into the mix.
I am an oil and gas attorney and own a small energy company, which operates in many states. I have only been able to spend time trading thoughts with you because I had minor surgery on Monday morning.
I do have a flight of fancy though relative to your constant presence on Townhall...Could it be that you are radical rightwinger in disguise? If not, you must know that you are convincing few here. For a guaranteed thrill up your leg, head over to HuffPo. :)
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To all rich people that want to share their wealth: nothing is stopping you. The IRS always accepts donations, so do churches, the United Way etc. Let's keep the wealth sharing voluntary not mandatory. I bet if Obama's teacher took the peanut butter sandwich and made him share it with the other kids, Obama would have cried. This is the U.S. we don't like government telling us that we have to share our sandwich, or PIE, or wealth. I know I gave more to charity than Joe Biden.
Now we know what Obama is A MARXIST. We'll have to decide whether we want our taxes used to pay WELFARE. Welfare helps no one. It just keeps people down. Next thing Obama, Reed and Pelosi will be taking our property just like the Cook County Sheriff recently tried to take away the banks right to foreclose on the properties in Chicago. Sheriff Dart did that even though the banks had a valid court order. We'll have eminent domain and we won't be compensated for our property in the name of the greater good. BO=BS. This is what is going to happen hello communist revolution. |
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McCain's the kind of guy who keeps the kids football when it goes into his yard.
He's the neighbor who ends up with the most toilet paper in his trees on Halloween.
He and Cindy are the couple who turn out the lights and pretend they're not home when the kids are trick-or-treating.
You complain about his dog pooping in his yard, he says he'll take care of it, then he sucker punches you from behind as you walk away.
He's got the annoying van that beeps every time he backs out of his driveway.
Your dog loves everybody, but barks at the McCains.
Has a big fireworks display on the 4th of July, but runs in the house and lets the kids face the cops when they arrive.
He calls everybody "my friend", but really has none.
Everybody "forgets" to tell him about the block party.
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Yeah, BO would share his sandwich with a kid who was highly allergic to PB, unless the kid was a terrorist. |
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Obama is good with the jokes......unfortunately he sucks on anything else of substance.
It still has not been legally established he can even run for President. He still has not produced an official birth certificate showing he was born a US citizen.
For argument's sake......let's say he does produce the "correct" birth certificate.
It is really SAD that Ocommie could possibly be elected President.....yet could not work for the FBI or CIA.
You see........he would be rejected for those jobs because of his past collaborations with former terrorists Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn and Khalid Rashidi. Apparently some jobs have standards.......and some don't.
SAD!!!! |
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"When Mark Levin says your gross will be taxed by Obama, and you say it's not so, who do you suppose a sane conservative will believe?"
(Unable to avoid pointing out the oxymoron in that sentence.)
I don't know who Mark Levin is, but it's Obama presenting the tax plan, not me. If you don't believe anything he says, how can you be criticizing any of it? |
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"my post was that they were laid off and my ability to rehire them does depend on the election's outcome. Global forces, including the price of oil, was the reason for the layoffs. It had nothing to do with Bush or Obama."
I'm not following the logic there. How did Bush show up, or did you mean to type "McCain?" (Interesting slip, if so.) Do you think that the outcome of the election is going to alter those "global forces?"
"Further, please do not assume that you know my business and that it is just isolated to one state."
It's not your business, it's the effect of one person's vote on the Electoral College. That's what is confined to a single state.
"That could not be further from the truth."
I'm inclined to think that your business is largely a flight of fantasy. You don't strike me as someone who would be running a company.
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He's making better jokes and keeping the crowds roaring. Best line tonight: George Bush has dug us into a very deep hole, and he just wants to hand the shovel over to John McCain."
Rock on, O! Prepare for your LANDSLIDE!! |
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He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar.He's a liar. got it?
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I don't think so. I don't know what Indonesians eat but it's not peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. B Hussein was raised in Indonesia and went to an Islamic school there. BTW, one HAD to be a Muslim to be allowed to go to school in Indonesia.
B Hussein is pretending he had an American upbringing. |
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"If your son isn't making more than $250,000 in PROFITS and paying that to himself, his taxes won't go up at all. If his actual taxable income -- line 40 on his 1040 form -- is substantially less than $250,000, he'll be paying less taxes under Obama."
You have a problem here BM. Conservatives don't believe you! It's that simple. You and your Left-wing pals lie all the time. There are probably close to zero people who believe you and your Obama talking points. When Mark Levin says your gross will be taxed by Obama, and you say it's not so, who do you suppose a sane conservative will believe? DUH! |
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Obama is a Marxist.
Just like his guiding light; Saul Alinsky.
If we elect him, we are going to go through hell as he and Congress dismantle endless hard won rights. You know, like our right of economic freedom.
If Obama wanted to share his considerable wealth and skills why does he not contribute more to charity? The answer is that he wants to give your money to poor guys and keep his for him.
Cheers,
Bloefeld |
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Bob Munck writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 9:10 PM
Denise 7:18 PM
"Last Friday, I laid off 25 of my employees with any possible reinstatement dependent upon the outcome of the election."
And you told them this? You said "No jobs for you if Obama wins?" Couldn't you have just paid them to vote for McCain?
And isn't it really unfair, since their vote will only affect the Electoral College votes from your state? You could have just told them "no jobs for you if Obama wins our state." Give them a little hope while you're extorting their vote.
What I wrote in my post was that they were laid off and my ability to rehire them does depend on the election's outcome. Global forces, including the price of oil, was the reason for the layoffs. It had nothing to do with Bush or Obama.
Further, please do not assume that you know my business and that it is just isolated to one state. That could not be further from the truth.
Lastly, unlike ACORN, I don't break the law by bribing or extorting votes. |
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It's what a bunch of you said, socialism and communism aren't about being altruistic and sharing your OWN posessions of free will -- it's having the state FORCE you to share by taking it from you. That ain't charity and it ain't free market capitalism. Obama is a dangerous Pinnochio for Soros...another socialist idiot. |
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his hypnotism skills too? |
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"His gross was at or above Obama's level but his profit margin was in the barely there range."
If your son isn't making more than $250,000 in PROFITS and paying that to himself, his taxes won't go up at all. If his actual taxable income -- line 40 on his 1040 form -- is substantially less than $250,000, he'll be paying less taxes under Obama. He should buy you a nice gift. |
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Your are so right, my son opened a small pizza business two years ago and has been smacked with taxes from every direction. He's no Charlie Rangel so he has to pay up or else. The gas prices have made is food costs rise, he's cut labor and has had to forego purchases of equipment he could use. His gross was at or above Obama's level but his profit margin was in the barely there range. He can't get drivers because of the price of gas, we know it will go up as soon as the election is over. He is running himself ragged but the selfish, greedy trolls we see can't be bothered with the finer
details, all their greedy hearts see is the gross so my son is RICH and should not be..it's not faaaiiir! He has his bank loan and family loans to repay but he's RICH! So some people are no longer employed, and if he needs help family members pitch in.
Communists, progressives, liberals, leftists
DEMONRATS are nothing but leeches on our society.
NO actually leeches are useful in medicine so
more like bloodsucking ticks. And anyone who
HATES this country and plots to CHANGE it and those useful idiots that covet what others have
are TRAITORS. If any of you trolls don't like
it TOUGH! |
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The Investors Daily Business Poll was the one poll that had it right last election, and it has them even. Daily Kos bloggers are going balistic and freaking out, crying, fainting and getting chills up their legs over this. They just can't believe it!!! How could this be? Don't you know Obama is just beside himself that he hasn't blown this one out of the water??
It just seems funny doesn't it, that if Obama is "the one" the Messiah, that he would have this in the bag. What happened? Obama always jokes about things he can't explain, or says, "uh, I don't know, it never happened, I was not aware." And if you don't agree with him you are a racist. Does Junior just have bad judgement or maybe he should just carry his teleprompter around with him. He has no record or experience. If he does win, it will be a squeaker, but I don't see it happening. People are finally waking up, thank God.
Cat, I think I will start using that method too, if the Redistribution King wins. Great, thank you... |
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It's not about HIS sandwich -- Obama wants to eat his sandwich, then take MINE and give it to someone else. |
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"It's not a punitive measure, dependent on their votes or even that of Denise's state."
Sure sounds like it is. Of course, she probably can't find out how they actually voted, so she has to make the threat more general. |
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My first sentence should have read:
"It's not a punitive measure, dependent on their votes or even that of Denise's state."
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"And isn't it really unfair, since their vote will only affect the Electoral College votes from your state? You could have just told them 'no jobs for you if Obama wins our state.' Give them a little hope while you're extorting their vote."
It's not a punitive measure, dependent on their votes or even Denise's vote.
After all, the damage resulting from Obama's undermining the economy will be national, not regional. If he loses, then Denise can expect to be able to rehire them.
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'Desperate measures mean yelling out "Communist, Socialist, Liberal"'
Their problem is that they ALWAYS do that. They called Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Dukakis, Mondale, Carter, and McGovern socialists (well, maybe with McGovern they had a point). They said that social security, medicare, and the Apollo program would lead us inevitably into communism. They're forever crying "WOLF!"
In fact, in my district they're literally crying Wolf, but we're voting for Judy Feder instead. |
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"Last Friday, I laid off 25 of my employees with any possible reinstatement dependent upon the outcome of the election."
And you told them this? You said "No jobs for you if Obama wins?" Couldn't you have just paid them to vote for McCain?
And isn't it really unfair, since their vote will only affect the Electoral College votes from your state? You could have just told them "no jobs for you if Obama wins our state." Give them a little hope while you're extorting their vote. |
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They are all the same. If you want one for a leader then get out of the U.S. |
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...voracious beast? Mack, who wants a government spending freeze or Barack, who's promised one Trillion $$ in new spending.
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America is tired of bending over to the Elitist GOP Party promises. Desperate measures mean yelling out "Communist, Socialist, Liberal" in the street. GOP is selling but no one is buying other that... Maybe Joe the Plumber and his publicist. |
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Oh, how I wish that cutting taxes wouold starve the beast- except that the beast just goes out and borrows more food! About 10 TRILLION dollars worth, by last count.
And can we count on the Republicans to hold spending down? nope, Bush has tripled the national debt in his term!
Time for a time-out for the GOP. |
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I'm being offered money for my vote. Your money.
I'm being told that opportunities just won't exist unless The One can make the bad people make them exist.
I'm being hoodwinked into forgetting the axiom, "hard cases make bad law."
I'm being reminded of the hardships caused by high gasoline prices: did he make this video last month?
I'm being sold helpful programs that are already part of existing law.
I'm being offered solutions that inevitably involve more government.
I'm being scolded about divisions and the need for bipartisanship by the most divisive candidate of my lifetime.
I'm being advised to unite behind The One because present difficulties reflect intractible destiny.
I'm being duped into thinking that someone who has been wrong in every foreign policy and military-related statement ever to have crossed his lips can persuade our nation's enemies to lay down their swords and beat them into plowshares without their breaking into uncontrollable laughter.
And in the final few seconds, he paraphrased the now famous canard, "this is the greatest country in the world: work with me to change that."
Mercifully, finally, the harangue ends.
Play ball.
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Obama can treat Communism with cute little jokes, hoping to assuage the easiest people in the world to fool...the trusting American public. All this public wants to do is feel good, and parade about being able to say "I'm not a racist." Well, neither am I, I'm assessing the man who should be in the Oval Office, I sure as hell don't care about being part of a history-making event like electing the first black president. There's nothing noble or patriotic about electing a man unfit for the position, whatever color he may be.
We Americans happen to be living in a time when the dread of Communism or Socialism is at an all-time low. Such is the ignorance of the subject.
I live in Phila.,where there are 90,000 Russian-speaking immigrants in and around the city. These people have lived under Communism/Socialism/absolute government control.
They will definitely NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA. They see what uninitiated American voters can't see.
These are people who've lived under the Soviet yoke, came here,grasped American opportunity and have done well. No welfare people here! If they can do it, having to convert from the Cyrillic alphabet to our Latin one,having to learn English and they did, what is the excuse of native-born Americans? I'll tell you...it's government handouts and that's what Obama thinks is the answer. |
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...opportunity, if Obama's elected. Nov. - Jan. to consider all kinds of "financial planning." Sell off anything with capital gains, fire everybody you can, sell off your stocks and invest in energy companies, dump your company's health plan, aand commit suicide so your heirs can avoid an outrageous estate tax rate. |
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Kudo's to your comment!
Vote for a Hero that cares about this country and AMERICANS!
Don't Vote for Someone who Loves only Himself and His associations!
Vote for somebody who wants to keep this Country Free Of Socialism
Don't Vote for Somebody who desires Socialism Control
Vote For somebody who has a record of actually participating in Government
And not just Voting Present!
Don't for somebody who didn't show up or just voted Present.
Vote for someone who cares about the American Peoples Voice
Don't vote for someone who wants to Stop Free Speech,
because it isn't all positive about him.
Vote for a man who knows his country shouldn't be accused of Racism
Don't vote for someone who bases his whole strategy on Making all White Americans appear Racist
Vote for somebody who doesn't trash and kick his country to Foreign Countries
Don't vote for someone Who Chastises our Allies and Praises Our Enemies.
John Mccain is for Americans
Obama is for Obama
The continued statements by Obama about Spreading the Wealth and America
Being a Wealthy Nation,
should be something to be Ashamed of?
We don't need your Socialist Views
Now he is saying Constitution isn't what he wants it to be?
Beware of a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
That is Obama
We are Not Ashamed of being FREE Americans.
We Love the Country, you kick every chance you get!
Mccain/Palin 08
Vote for a real American! |
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The libs believe they can put whatever burden they please on businesses, and business owners will just suck it up and soldier on--keep making it happen no matter what.
Do they not see businesses going belly up everyday? Inbridled government power, from whom the Founding Fathers knew we needed protection, is a small business's worst enemy.
Earlier peoples endured plague, pestilence and marauding hoards. For us, it's government and its unaccounantable, tyranical bureaucracies that are our worst nightmare.
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If Obama is elected next Tuesday, expect unemployment to skyrocket before the end of the year.
Why? Because they want to make us more like Europe. Do you know how hard it is to layoff an employee in France? Or even to fire one for cause?
Obama, Pelosi, and Reid: expect them to do the same thing to you. After all, it may be a necessary measure to forestall the massive unemployment that will result from the capital flight that their policies will induce.
Any corporation with a marginal plant, any employer with marginal hires, will have to act while they are still ALLOWED to, or they will condemn their stockholders -- your 401k, perhaps -- to penury.
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Obama's economic plan also calls for mandating a "living wage." He plans to saddle retailers with a $10 minimum wage indexed to inflation, along with a mandate to provide seven days of paid sick leave to workers.
Obama assumes business owners will just eat the added costs.
But restaurants, the nation's second-largest private-sector employer, already operate on razor-thin profit margins. Faced with such mandatory paid benefits, they'll have no choice but to cut staff.
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You said: "Last Friday, I laid off 25 of my employees with any possible reinstatement dependent upon the outcome of the election."
So, let's see...You laid off 25 people last week, while Bush is President....and this is OBAMA'S fault???
First of all, getting to a point that you raised earlier in the above post. I do not know your business, but I do know mine. And, I know how adversely it would be affected.
Secondly, neither Bush or Obama, if he was President, had any impact on my business decisions. In fact, it was due to global economic issues and pricing. My point about Obama concerns whether they will be rehired.
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Obama can share all his toys and sandwiches to his heart's content. However, when he starts sharing my toys and sandwiches, he has crossed the line into Marxism. |
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don writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 7:31 PM
How to pick the layoff-ees
"Denise writes: How do I know that Obama's tax plan will adversely impact unemployment? I know because of what it will do to my own businesses. Last Friday, I laid off 25 of my employees with any possible reinstatement dependent upon the outcome of the election."
If this was not so sad, it would be the greatest touche of all time.
A friend of mine has similar plans.
His strategy for picking the people to layoff is to pick the one's with Obama stickers on their cars.
Don, I am sorry that you find the realities of economics and running a business a "sorry" endeavor. Unfortunately, people, who actually run businesses, don't have the luxury of bankrupting a company so that they can maintain employees when the economy slows. This is especially true if they have stockholders, which I do have.
No one likes to layoff workers, but oftimes, the economy and future economic consequences dictate untasteful decisions. |
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I bet tonight you will see Obama around allot of children, it is about time for them to break out their ACE CARD
THE VICTIMIZATION OF OUR POOR CHILDREN then Damn Reps
They havent used it yet, but I bet you by this weekend they will have a Ad out using The Elderly as Those Dreaded VICTIMS of those BIG EVIL REPS.;
Come on yall you can play along we Reps have already read this book.
Fill in the blanks for here it comes.
\The Ace Card for DEMS
Using the Children and elderly as victims. Boy as a black man I think thats rather cruel to be playing with. If thats what it takes to win I dont want any part of it. Shameful I say |
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"I am tired of this 'lets never tax anyone anywhere' line. It is an example of a good idea for fiscal responsibility being taken to absurd extremes. First, lower taxes DO NOT mean higher revenues; the Laffer Curve, which this is based on, had natural limits."
Recall the wisdom of the great sage Milton Friedman: "If a tax cut increases government revenues, you haven't cut taxes enough."
Starve the beast.
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You said: First of all, that $700billion amount is erroneous. It's probably half of that. $700 billion is what we spend to import ALL of our foreign oil. Most of that is from Canada. Still, $350 billion is a lot of money, and that's where alternative fuels will help us decrease our need of foreign oil. For crying out loud, even McCain/Palin support alternative fuels
Denise: I don't disagree with alternative fuels. I believe that we need every efficient, in terms of both costs and the environment, method of energy. While the amount sent overseas is a direct function of oil prices, no one can argue that we would be better off it that money stayed in America. My point about drilling is that we must do it until the alternative fuels come online in economically feasible ways. These fuels will not become widely available in the time that we can bring more production on line.
Last year, the USPS purchased hundreds of thousands of flex fuel vehicles. These are still in parking lots because of the inavailability of alternative fuels in sufficient quantities.
My point is that we may not be able to drill our way out of this problem, but we do need drilling to get us to the point where we have sufficient alternative fuel sources available. |
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My sister and I also run a small business. We sat down with our acountant as we walked thru the numbers and saw that we would do much better under Obama's plan than under McCain's. Apparently we're hearing very different information to get these different results.
You said: "Last Friday, I laid off 25 of my employees with any possible reinstatement dependent upon the outcome of the election."
So, let's see...You laid off 25 people last week, while Bush is President....and this is OBAMA'S fault???
Unemployment rates are shooting up due to the economy sucking and jobs being sent elsewhere...this is happening under Bush's watch, not Obama's.
I like the fact that you're remaining civil during this, but it doesn't add up. And Ive crunched the numbers. |
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They love to talk about Exxon's record profit but neglect to mention Exxon's record amt. of taxes paid. |
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Appropos of nothing...
The Dancing Banana, an Obama Manifesto.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8MDNFaGfT4
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You said: Your wait for alternative fuels will take just a slong as drilling and refining any oil off of our coasts. This percentage would be tiny and would not free us of foreign oil in the least, and certainly wouldn't be any major force for lowering gas prices.
Denise: Since this is something that I am paid as an expert for and also own oil and gas interests, I can tell you unequivocally that my company can drill a well and have in online in less than six months and that is for offshore well. As for the amount of reserves we have in this country, prices would definitely be lowered as a result of increased drilling. We have tremendous amounts of natural gas reserves and putting them to better and increased uses would have a dramatic effect.
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I am a white, middle class, conservative Republican...and even I am tired of this "lets never tax anyone anywhere" line. It is an example of a good idea for fiscal responsibility being taken to absurd extremes.
First, lower taxes DO NOT mean higher revenues; the Laffer Curve, which this is based on, had natural limits; its like saying Ford can increase sales by cutting sales price- taken to absurd extremes, if they lowered the cost of a car to 1 dollar, they would have infinite sales!
I think excessive taxes are a drag on the economy- but the DEFICIT is far, far more dangerous- I would GLADLY pay more taxes, if it meant preventing our nation from being in debt to the Chinese. |
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I am convinced that this guy is a pathological liar.
He loves to use terms which would make him seem more like most American's but in reality he did not have that type of upbringing.
I am pretty sure that the schools he attended as a kid did NOT offer PB&J. Maybe gado-gado but not PB&J.
We cannot let this guy win. |
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Right on...
"we're talking about his recent and current devotion to "redistributive change", and he goes back to talking about his days in elementary school."
Is he that obsessed with elementary schools? |
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{During a primary debate, the ABC host took Obama to task for proposing a doubling in the capital gains tax. History shows, he pointed out, that raising the cap gains rate actually ends up costing the government revenues.
Obama just didn't get it. "Well, Charlie," he argued, "what I've said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness."
Forget growth and revenues. Let's just punish those "greedy" investors. It's the same Marxist reasoning behind his plan to repeal the Bush tax cuts: The rich must be made to pay their "fair" share, Obama asserts.
Never mind that the top 1% of taxpayers already pay 38% of the total tax burden, according to recent IRS data, while the bottom 50% bear just 3% of the load.
Obama's economic plan also calls for mandating a "living wage." He plans to saddle retailers with a $10 minimum wage indexed to inflation, along with a mandate to provide seven days of paid sick leave to workers.
Obama assumes business owners will just eat the added costs.}
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=3024840201 65482 |
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Denise writes to Shoe: But you keep saying that taxes will go UP under Obama, and now you're talking about "lower tax revenues".
Individual taxes will go up, but tax revenues will drop like a rock, probably by 50% if Obama gets his way.
a) layed off workers don't pay taxes
b) huge amounts of money are fleeing offshore as we speak
c) honest, voluntary tax compliance is going to decline sharply. Smart people can still file but be very agressive about deductions and business expenses. This will happen.
d) the underground economy will replace large parts of the taxable economy.
A lot of that won't happen if Obama leaves taxes where they are....but he has already pledged to soak the rich, so what are the odds. It's not like his allies, Pelosi and Reid, are rational creatures either.
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I heard was sharing toys
Yet another example of Obama trying to poject his victimization out of the mouths of conservatives.
Its pretty bad if you have to make up your own attacks to respond to....but that's his style.
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... Is right --
If you allow business to keep their income they grow and hire MORE people -- the more they make and hire the more TAX is paid to government.
However if you raise tax - then small business will not take the hit. They will adjust by reducing employees, and raising prices - effecting the very people Obama professes to want to help! |
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"Denise writes: How do I know that Obama's tax plan will adversely impact unemployment? I know because of what it will do to my own businesses. Last Friday, I laid off 25 of my employees with any possible reinstatement dependent upon the outcome of the election."
If this was not so sad, it would be the greatest touche of all time.
A friend of mine has similar plans.
His strategy for picking the people to layoff is to pick the one's with Obama stickers on their cars.
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Obama: Marxist,Commie, Shapeshifter
*
IT MATTERS:
OBAMA'S associations with America Haters, Hateful Biggots, Communists, Muslim Terrorists, Crooks and Criminals; It all matters, IT ALL MATTERS!
Day by Day, more and more, the tide is turning.
Too Bad for HILLARY and McCain and Americans it took this long to finally figure out A SHAM ELECTION.
AND THE MEDIA AND ITS,
"FLYING MONKEES", WILL PAY!
YOU CAN COUNT IT......
* |
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Shoes, you said:
Again, you're contradicting yourself here. Forget the part about unemployment because I just addressed it above (and it below posts). But you keep saying that taxes will go UP under Obama, and now you're talking about "lower tax revenues". Which is it? Either there will be more or three will be less. You cannot raise taxes and have less tax revenue.
Yes, you can. For instance, if my tax rate increases, I can cut down my productivity. Thus, the increased tax rate will be applied to less of my income, which will decrease my contribution to federal tax revenues.
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what the main difference is between a Socialist and a Communist?
A Socialist allows you to earn "it".....then they take "it" away from you....
A Communist never lets you have "it", no matter how long or hard you work for "it".....
Which is Obama?........
He is an "aborted fetus" cross of the two....
LMAO!!!!!! |
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The careless ba***rd could have killed someone with that peanut butter!
When peanut butter is outlawed, only outlaws will have peanut butter.
Peanut butter sandwiches don't kill people; only people sharing their peanut butter sandwiches kill people.
Only a fool brings a peanut butter sandwich to a gun fight.
OK, I'll stop. But Kathy at 12:45pm (the third post) has it precisely right: we're talking about his recent and current devotion to "redistributive change", and he goes back to talking about his days in elementary school.
Enough already. Barack Obama, you totally fail.
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Shoes,
Early last summer, I met with my accountant to discuss the various tax plans, as they were then, to discover how my small businesses would be impacted. After this conversation, it became clear to me that Sen. Obama's tax proposals, not only the income tax issue, would severely cut into an already marginal profit margin.
How do I know that Obama's tax plan will adversely impact unemployment? I know because of what it will do to my own businesses. Last Friday, I laid off 25 of my employees with any possible reinstatement dependent upon the outcome of the election.
Sen. Obama's tax credit of $3K per year for two years for each new employee would never cover the administrative costs involved or the matching payroll taxes, which will be increased another 6.4%. |
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You said: "Will I have to wait for long periods of time to see a doctor or have surgery, like they do in France, England, Canada and other countries if there is universal care or even partial socialization?"
This is a weak argument and is not ANYWHERE NEAR Obama's healthcare program. It is not socialized. Period. You will simply be able to keep the plan you have, or be able to find a cheap plan to get covered under without fear of being excluded because of preconditions.
You said: "Will I be able to fuel my car if the US refuses to drill for oil and natural gas while I await alternative fuels?"
Your wait for alternative fuels will take just a slong as drilling and refining any oil off of our coasts. This percentage would be tiny and would not free us of foreign oil in the least, and certainly wouldn't be any major force for lowering gas prices.
You said: "Will I or my family be harmed if we continue to send $700B a year overseas to countries that either do not have our best interests at heart or dislike us altogether?"
First of all, that $700billion amount is erroneous. It's probably half of that. $700 billion is what we spend to import ALL of our foreign oil. Most of that is from Canada. Still, $350 billion is a lot of money, and that's where alternative fuels will help us decrease our need of foreign oil. For crying out loud, even McCain/Palin support alternative fuels.
You said: "Will my country be better off if we befriend our enemies and alienate our friends?"
Isn't that what we've done the last 8 years??? And you're right: we're worse off!! We've pissed off our allies. Diplomacy is something that went bye-bye under Bush. Even the right's beloved Reagan sat down with enemies, because that's what you have to do, rather than use the military. The sad part is that even Bush is now realizing that diplomacy should be used...it's simply McCain that uses it as a talking point. |
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You said: "How will Obama's tax cuts affect unemployment? Will I lose my job because my small business employer can no longer afford me?
Will my $500/yr. check offset my lost employee benefits, or compensate me for my lost job, or be used to pay my annual union dues?"
You certainly brought up a lot just in the beginning there. But jobs will not be lost. Please see my post below showing how the tax increase on a $400K business will only be $6900/year. Right now the unemployment rate is extremely high and continues to go up....Obama's not causing that.
You said: "Will the huge increase in governmental spending, higher unemployment, and lower tax revenues lead to a deep and sustained recession or even a depression?"
Again, you're contradicting yourself here. Forget the part about unemployment because I just addressed it above (and it below posts). But you keep saying that taxes will go UP under Obama, and now you're talking about "lower tax revenues". Which is it? Either there will be more or three will be less. You cannot raise taxes and have less tax revenue.
You said: "If I am behind on my mortgage or become delinquent in the future, will I be able to become current and save my home in 90 days?"
Can you now? Right now Obama is proposing a tax break for almost everyone who would be falling into the category of possibly missing their mortgage payment.
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"Ok, fine....so you're calling the "breaking even" of low income familes "not paying taxes" and you think that's unfair....So what you're saying is that those low income familes should pay more in taxes?? They already don't make very much, but should have to pay more, in order for it to be equal to the high income families??"
1. Employers are required to withhold tax from our wages and salaries as a means to accelerate tax collection.
2. If the amount withheld during the year is in excess of the taxpayer liability, it is refunded.
3. If a taxpayer has tax withheld during the year and there is no tax liability, the entire amount is refunded.
4. That taxpayer has no tax liability and pays no taxes on income.
I did not say that low income families should pay more in taxes to be equal to high income families and it is a puzzlement as where that idea came from.
Ergo, if you have no tax liability you pay no taxes and you get all the money withheld refunded.
Those who have substantial income from interest and other earnings (usually retirees who have saved all their lives for their own retirement years) must file a quarterly estimated tax payment based on what they project their income will be for the year. If they underestimate the amount due or fail to make the payments on time, they are assessed a penalty.
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"Tessa writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 5:52 PM
Socialism vs capitalism
Shoes, when the top 5% is taxed more what do you think that top 5% does?"
In the Carter years, the top 5% invested their energies in Tax Shelters. After the Reagan tax cuts, they let their money be counted as income because the rates were no longer conficatory.
That's one of the major reasons the idiot libs say that the "gap" between the rich and the poor is bigger now than ever. they compare to the Carter years when a high percentage of wealth did not appear as income. Now that it does appear as income, the "gap" magically has grown. But you won't hear that from the media. They are too stupid and incurious to investigate something that deliciously fits their socialist agenda.
Of course, the other big reason for "the gap" is that transfer payments don't get counted. Can you believe it!! Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, Unemployment, the now-famous tax credits, Health Insurance subsidies, free medical care in emergency rooms, scholarships to undeserving students, subsidized transportation, subsidized housing, food stamps, etc., etc......NONE OF THAT is counted in the mythical "growing" income gap. Doesn't fit the meme you see.
Maybe that is why the average "poor" person has 2 cars, multiple TV's, all the kitchen appliances, DVD's, Cell phone, IPODs, and $150 sneakers.
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"Shoes writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 6:17 PM
The arguments that businesses will have to lay off people and raise prices is just pathetic. If companies raise prices to make up for a tax hike, the market increase in price is tiny. It's not like you'll suddenly be paying $4.00 for a candy bar that used to cost $1.00."
Obama has said he will raise business taxes 25%.
Total business taxes are $400B annually. So the increase will be $100B.
There are about 100M taxpayers in the country. That's an increase of $1000 per taxpayer, since businesses only collect taxes. That's if the tax is built into the price.
The alternative of course is to decrease costs. Since the tax won't be voluntary, the likely target will be jobs. If we say the average worker gets paid $75,000 including benefits, there will be 1,333,000 layoffs.
So much for "miniscule".
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You are a Socialist/Communist, don't try to fool yourself. Any attempt to take one man's hard earned wage and give it to another man, a stranger and laggard is Communism. Your feeble attempt to justify it by drawing class warfare lines is just additional proof. Benevolence must be voluntary to be valid, to force benevolence by law is thievery. The force of law can never shield a jealous man that covets another's earnings. Laws are protection for the inalienable rights of our citizens not methods for oppression and larceny. Shoes, read your Constitution, it is not a muddled document. Evil people have tried to make it fluid by using words like "living", and legislating from the Judiciary. Those people are just serpents of semantics dedicated to bastardizing the work and intent of our founding fathers. You've joined them and I can see you have adopted the Liberal method of obfuscation. Be consistent, get in the Communist camp, vote for Obama. |
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You wrote: " Thus, after [Clinton] took office, he and the Democratically-controlled Congress passed the largest tax increase on ALL Americans in US history."
And yet our economy was doing great, the unemployment rate was down and we had a budgetary surplus. Aren't those the kinds of things that are good for America??
It does always seem that whenever I show people the ACTUAL numeric effects of Obama's tax proposals, people start to fall back on the same principal of "well, you can't believe him".
First, it starts off with "Obama will raise your taxes, and he's reditributing wealth, and companies will be forced to cut jobs and raise prices".....then I show actual figures disproving all of that.....and then it becomes "oh...well, ummm...you can't trust him. He won't do what he's saying."
Well, unless there's a major turn between now and Tuesday, Obama will be the next President, and I guess we'll all find out. Basically, I'm willing to steer clear of what's happened the last 8 years, and so are the majority of other Americans (at least it seems so right now). |
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McCain does not just need to coast, push, push, don't let any dirt grow under your feet, keep the momentium going. We don't want to give the obama machine a chance at all to even get one extra vote if we can help it. Obama has all but told Georgia to kiss his black A$$. Not me I will call all of Georgia out to vote for McCain. |
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I beg all of you, who are voting for Obama only based on his tax cut promises, that seldom do those who are elected actually follow through. It is most unlikely that Obama's tax cuts will occur unless he forces such through. If that happens, it is almost an economic certainty that there will be a substantial jump in unemployment and a serious decrease in tax revenues.
Questions to ask:
How will Obama's tax cuts affect unemployment? Will I lose my job because my small business employer can no longer afford me?
Will my $500/yr. check offset my lost employee benefits, or compensate me for my lost job, or be used to pay my annual union dues?
Will the huge increase in governmental spending, higher unemployment, and lower tax revenues lead to a deep and sustained recession or even a depression?
If I am behind on my mortgage or become delinquent in the future, will I be able to become current and save my home in 90 days?
Will I have to wait for long periods of time to see a doctor or have surgery, like they do in France, England, Canada and other countries if there is universal care or even partial socialization?
Will I be able to fuel my car if the US refuses to drill for oil and natural gas while I await alternative fuels?
Will I or my family be harmed if we continue to send $700B a year overseas to countries that either do not have our best interests at heart or dislike us altogether?
Will my country be better off if we befriend our enemies and alienate our friends?
You don't need to respond just think the questions through. If you still want to vote for Obama, it is your right.
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Barack Obama was mentored by Communist Frank Marshall Davis, Communist writer and poet (1905-1987).
Frank Marshall Davis was identified unequivocally as a CPUSA member in a 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities.
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Barack Obama carefully chose William 'Bill' Ayers who said, "Kill all the rich people. ... Bring the revolution home. Kill your parents."
In the 1960s, Bernardine Dohrn and her husband Bill Ayers were leaders of the "Weatherman" faction, which in 1969 went underground to become America's first terrorist cult.
Barack Obama launched his political career in the home of Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn.
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Alice Palmer met Barack Obama during meetings at the home of Bill Ayers and hand picked Obama to fill her newly vacated 'State Senate Seat'.
Alice Palmer served as an executive board member of the U.S. Peace Council, which the FBI identified as a Communist front group.
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Michael Klonsky was chosen by Barack Obama as a blogger on the 'Obama official Website'. Klonsky a former leader of 'SDS' - Students for a Democratic Society and a leader of the 'New Communist Party'.
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Tim Wheeler is a National Board member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA), and has been a key figure in the party's Baltimore chapter since the early 1970s. He helped organize local canvassing and visibility events for Obama, and he chronicled his experiences on the campaign trail in a blog that appeared on the Obama campaign website.
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Jeremiah Wright was carefully chosen by Barack Obama to 'Mentor' him and be his spiritual guide.
Mentor Wright became famous for screaming 'God Damn America' from the pulpit at TUCC.
http://hisfacts.blogtownhall.com/2008/10/21/obamas_radical_ and_communist_alliances.thtml
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"Shared" is newspeak for "stole." He stole from the kids he didn't like and gave their toys and lunches to his friends.
This was his first taste of political power, and he liked it. |
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To Obama, the Sermon on the Mount is radical. But, "god damn america" and "kkk or america," are "not particularly controversial" to Obama. These are Obama's own words.
Our country is going to go to hell in a handbasket fast if Obama wins. |
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While I am aware that Obama argues that he would repeal the Bush tax cuts (which BTW were across the board and a repeal of same would increase all tax rates) and go back to the Clinton tax rates, it is very important to remember exactly what Clinton promised when he first ran for the presidency.
Like Obama, he too, promised MIDDLE CLASS TAX CUTS. Unfortunately, for the middle class, as well as everyone else, this turned out not to be the case. In fact, after his election, he realized that he could not fund his promises along with tax cuts. Thus, after he took office, he and the Democratically-controlled Congress passed the largest tax increase on ALL Americans in US history.
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I didn't know they had kindergarten in Indonesia, much less ate peanut butter....what a smartass |
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What Obama meant to say was:
I gave your toys away then stole 39% your P&B sandwich, to feed my thug friends. |
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And much of that last post was aimed more at Tessa's post, not yours...Her arguments were simply poor and I wanted to post this tax info. |
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I think I understand you now. I certainly don't agree with your position but at least we can do so in a civil fashion. I'm certainly not a socialist or marxist, but I do believe that when people (or companies) start to make a certain amount of money, that they should give back a higher percentage of it to help those less fortunate. I don't see that as being anti-capitalist. I'm all for someone making as much money as possible if they run a business (like I do).
The arguments that businesses will have to lay off people and raise prices is just pathetic. If companies raise prices to make up for a tax hike, the market increase in price is tiny. It's not like you'll suddenly be paying $4.00 for a candy bar that used to cost $1.00.
I've brought this up before: If a company shows a $400K net profit, it will be taxed as such $250K at 35% ($87,500) and the additional $150K at 39.6% ($59,400) for a total of $146,900.
Under current taxes, at a flat 35%, that same $400K business would pay $140,000 in taxes.
That's a difference of $6900, to a highly succesful company that is still showing a net profit of $400K, even after payrolls, vendor payments, utilities, expenses, etc.... Do you really think that these companies are going to be making layoffs because of $6900??? It's just not true... |
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It's amazing watching Obama implode from his own lofty socialist/Marxist/communist/Stalinist/fascist/dictatorship viewpoints.
Now that the polls are virtually even all that our True American Hero John McCain needs to do is coast to the finish line. After Pennsylvania and Florida go red on election night the reality of another Dem defeat will seep into these poor socialist types finally.
It's over, the good guys win again! |
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"Taxes are Wealth Redistribution and even our founding fathers recognized the necessity for taxes"
Did you know Thomas Jefferson was a founding father?
{Though social policies sometimes governed the course of tax policy even in the early days of the Republic, the nature of these policies did not extend either to the collection of taxes so as to equalize incomes and wealth, or for the purpose of redistributing income or wealth. As Thomas Jefferson once wrote regarding the "general Welfare" clause:
To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."}
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.sh tml |
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Obama ate his peanut and jelly sandwiches on pita bread!
He won't take your peanut butter and jelly sandwich, He will take your hard earned money to buy peanut butter and jelly at a price three to four times what you would have paid. Hire people to make the sandwiches - minorities of course because this is only fair. He would then begin a government agency to distribute the expensive peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and take all the expenses involved from the haves to give to the have nots. After all, it is only fair! |
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[Dread A big problem with Obama's plan is that he is giving 'tax relief' to people who don't pay taxes. That isn't a rebate, that is welfare.]
Except, as I noted above, everyone pays taxes to some degree. They are pervasive. They are pernicious. Heck, a strong economic argument can be made that Inflation can be added to my list as an indirect tax, as that is generally a result of the government or the quasi-government Federal Reserve.
So, yes, if a family or person spends no money, is homeless, does not buy any good or service that is taxed or has had its price influenced by tariffs, import quotas or subsidies, and uses a barter system or an independent currency source not influenced by inflation to conduct transactions, then yes, they would be welfare recipients.
Otherwise, they are taxpayers.
No one escapes Uncle Sam.
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Haven't leftists like Hiss, The Nation, Robert Scheer, Howard Zinn, that guy Ayers, always kidded about communism, socialism and pacifism? Sure, because to them democracy and capitalism has been the enemy of personal liberty to......do what anyone damn pleases . Responsibility and liberties rarely go together on the Left. They can always blame 'the rich, you know, the job producers, Reagan-Bush, the military infrastructure, those old dead white guys who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and capitalism.' If the media had ever behaved responsibly and researched all his associates, his policies, his beliefs , the public at large would not have thought his naive views of America were all that laughable. |
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You said: "Ergo, they don't pay taxes...sigh"
I repeat your *sigh*.
Ok, fine....so you're calling the "breaking even" of low income familes "not paying taxes" and you think that's unfair....So what you're saying is that those low income familes should pay more in taxes?? They already don't make very much, but should have to pay more, in order for it to be equal to the high income families??
Giving those familes and additional tax break is just wrong in your opinion.... Let me just say that I run a small business and there are THOUSANDS of ways that businesses hide money. The tax system is so full of loopholes that business owners constantly work with their accountants to whittle down their bottom line in order to pay the least amount of taxes possible. This is the way it is.
Yet, you're for giving breaks to big companies and high income families that ALREADY find loopholes to get out of paying all their taxes, and not for giving those breaks to the people who can barely afford to feed their families and live in crappy houses, certianly not being able to afford (or even need) accountants???
Hmmm....I keep forgetting who has their priorities out of whack. |
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I forgot to mention that I agree with you on the level of discourse here at TH. I do like to poke sticks at some of the trolls but I would rather have calm discussion. |
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You misunderstand me a bit. I think any progressive tax system is socialist. I just don't know when you would want to call it 'Marxist'. There probably isn't a cut off point as the top marginal tax rates have been much, much higher in the past. I'm not saying that Obama is Marxist but he is very leftist and that any more movement to the left is bad. And Obama (and he isn't alone, of course) certainly does want to take from the rich and give to the poor. That is the essence of our welfare state. I am not against welfare as such but it should be handled at the State level where the level of any plan can be decided by the people of that State. The federal government should not be in the business or wealth redistribution ala, welfare or social security. |
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Shoes, when the top 5% is taxed more what do you think that top 5% does? Do they do without the extra's in their lives? Or do they lay-off someone or do they pass that onto the consumer in the form of raising the bills on the particular goods or services? See when everyone touts that only the top 5% will see an increase in taxes they are all fooling themselves. Those increase in some form or fashion will be passed down to us the consumer - that's a fact.
An answer to your question - why ask that question we the tax payers the middle of the road folks should look very seriously at the Fair Tax - 17% on all purchases across the board and do away with all income tax. What to you think a consumer will do if they are not being taxed at 15 - 20 - 25 - 30 - 35 or 39.5%? If they are bringing every penny home they will indeed throw it back into the free market.
I SAY LETS HAVE ANOTHER BOSTON TEA PARTY TYPE REACTION IF THEY TAKE OVER!! |
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Ed Wallis. You are so right.
He is going to share his PBJ or his TOYS he's going to share our PBJ and TOYS. That is what you call the government taking from those that have some to give to those that have nothing.
I make more than 42K so I guess if this guy makes it to the White House I can count on sharing my wealth. |
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"The low income earning people and families DO pay federal taxes, but since their wages are so low - and if they have children - they end up receiving a refund in April that brings them to a wash."
...and Obama will take us to the cleaners.
Increased taxes
Freedom of Choice Act with abortion on demand
Greatly reduced national defense
Fairness Doctrine to shut down opposition
Redistribution of the wealth
McCain/Palin 2008 Preserve our Democracy, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, a strong National Defense, our Freedom and Liberty.
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Sometimes the peopel here at TH shock me. Like Denise's post, that was actually a well-written post that didn't resort to name-calling and dropping inaccurate talking points.
Respectfully I have to disagree with you, and that's ok. I really don't see Obama's plan as "Robin Hood". He's not taking from the rich and giving to the poor. He's giving tax breaks to the working class of America that desperately needs it, especially now. The top 5% who make a lot of money will have to go back to the rate that it was at under Clinton...It's not going higher than that. And I certainly don't see that as socialism or Marxism.
At least you admitted that you didn't know what the exact figure would be where our tax system crossed over from being "ok" to being socialist. I still pose the question though, to anyone who thinks that way. If Obama is a socialist, then at what line between 35% and 39.6% do we cross over to socialism? |
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Jon writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 3:13 PM
Explosive statements by Obama!!!
It's being reported Obama said,
"Israel has no God-given right to occupy Palestine"
and
There has been "genocide against the Palestinian people by Israelis"
Source: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/
WRITE THE LA TIMES DEMANDING THE RELEASE OF THE VIDEO:
Readers.Rep@latimes.com
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I just wrote them a note I appreciate the email address - this is how we can get them to move on this stuff.
Everyone email them now!!! |
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...but that sort of CYNICAL DEFLECTION is his only stock in trade.
TO ADDRESS OBAMA'S "METAPHOR"...
...WERE Obama to only share HIS OWN toys and HIS OWN peanut butter and jelly sandwich,
NO ONE WOULD BE CARPING.
His policies all indicate the intention TO SHARE "OUR TOYS" AND "OUR SANDWICHES" with thise who never earned them.
BACK THEN, THAT'S WHAT WE CALLED A SCHOOLYARD BULLY.
The reality for American adults would be grimmer.
*** McCAIN / PALIN '08!!! *** |
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Calling all constitutional geniuses out there. If you want to argue the constitution with any degree of knowledge, you should know...
IT IS INALIENABLE RIGHTS, NOT UNALIENABLE RIGHTS.
And, contrary to Obama's statement in the second debate and some of the arguments here, there is NO constitutional right to health care. Nor, will you find anything about the right to an education, a job, housing, etc. Which is why progressives have long argued for a Second Bill of Rights.
As for the whole 35% to 39% argument for those making over $250,000K:
First, even Obamalover and far left economist, Paul Krugman, who just won the Nobel Prize for economics, has run the numbers and states that it will be $172.4K. The WSJ has done the same. They state that it will be more like $75K in order to pay-as-you-go for Obama's social programs and tax refunds.
Secondly, even if you do not make $250K, which is the figure for families only, you will see your payroll taxes increase by 6.2% if your temployer matches it and 12.4% if you are self-employed.
Next,regardless of income, and this includes low-level workers that own company stock and options, capital gain and dividend taxes will nearly double.
Finally, the Democrats are talking about doing away with 401(K)s and their tax deductions. You will have to pay 5% of your annual gross earnings into a fund earning 3% per year interest that is overseen by the Social Security Administration. Since Democrats raided social security in the 1960s and the SSA has done such a good job since then, I wouldn't count on receiving that check in the future.
When you add the above to state, sales, municipal and property taxes, you are talking about way more than 39%. |
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A big problem with Obama's plan is that he is giving 'tax relief' to people who don't pay taxes. That isn't a rebate, that is welfare. |
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Exactly. I'm not sure why almost everyone on TH, as well as most conservatives don't see this. It's as if they think the only tax around is income tax....And even then, they hide behind the false figure of 40% of Americans don't pay any federal income taxes, which simply is false. The low income earning people and families DO pay federal taxes, but since their wages are so low - and if they have children - they end up receiving a refund in April that brings them to a wash.
It's truly sad how people will simply close their eyes to truth in order to hold on to silly talking points, rather than letting them go and focusing on real issues that are factual. |
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I don't know what Denise's answer would here is mine. Marxism calls for a highly progressive tax system (among other things). Now, I don't know what the threshold of being 'officially' Marxist rather than socialist is but any move to the left is bad, IMHO. We are a socialist country right now, via social security, Medicare, a large welfare state AND a progressive tax structure. The bailout was a hugh jump to the left, of course. Obama states he wants to take money away from the richest and give it to the poorist as simply policy. We need to either have a flat tax or the fair tax ( I like the fair tax because people can see how much they are paying to the feds each time they purchase something).
We, unfortunately, are moving toward Marxism at a steady pace and the Republicans have either done nothing to slow it or have aided helped the movement. |
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Greenspan said: He accepts all responsibility for the bailout, he also said that he thought that the democrats would be more careful than they were!
confirmed! The Barney F Franks of this country screwed Americans for Sex!
Isn't trading sex for money a crime? |
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“Obama's plan makes no qualifications except on income, and those not owing any taxes still get the credit.”
As I’ve said before, everyone pays taxes. Even if they don’t pay income tax.
Direct Taxes:
Sales tax
Property taxes
Tariffs on goods
Utility taxes
Cigarette, Tobacco and Alcohol taxes
Indirect taxes:
Subsidies on goods that keep the prices higher than they otherwise would be
Import restrictions
I’m sure I’m missing a few more.
Now, frankly, I’d rather McCain/Obama deal with the problem by getting rid of those taxes instead of playing around with the income tax, but Obama’s plan could still reasonably be considered tax relief.
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Here's what Mr. Ayn Rand had to admit -- and of course it was not reported on TH, Drudge and FOX:
"Greenspan, 82, acknowledged under questioning that he had made a “mistake” in believing that banks, operating in their own self-interest, would do what was necessary to protect their shareholders and institutions. Greenspan called that “a flaw in the model ... that defines how the world works.”
He acknowledged that he had also been wrong in rejecting fears that the five-year housing boom was turning into an unsustainable speculative bubble that could harm the economy when it burst. Greenspan maintained during that period that home prices were unlikely to post a significant decline nationally because housing was a local market."
John Galt is dead. |
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You said: "Socialism is where a central government takes what it does not OWN and gives it to those it deems approriate under a system it designs."
First of all, that was a very well-thought out and written post. Trust me, that's a rarity on TH.
Secondly, let's look at your claim of what Socialism is. I can agree to that, but then please tell me how Obama is a socialist.
Seriously think about this: we already have a sliding grade for paying taxes. If you're suggesting that Obama's plan to lower taxes for the middle class, and raise them on the highest income bracket is Socialism, then I'd like to know at what percentage does our current tax program cross over from "ok" to socialism. |
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The Federal government, state government and property owners "OWN" mineral rights, not producers unless they purchased the lands. Minerals are hydrocarbons, coal, etc.
The Feds, through the Minerals Management Service, get 16.66667% of every gross dollar of production generated from Federal lands, including offshore leases. Plus, annual rentals on unproducing leases, which were won in a lease sale where the winner pays its winning bid within 30 days. The leases generally last for 5 years and they may be extended if held by production.
States also receive money in similar ways.
Property owners can sit on their minerals, lease them out and collect royalties, or produce the reserves themselves. They can sell or lease surface rights while maintaing ownership of the minerals.
Alaska owns the minerals located on state lands. It can lease those lands to producers, who have to pay excise taxes, royalties, and other payments.
Since Alaska and its citizens own the minerals, it can distribute profits on it as it sees fit. It can use these for governmental programs or, if it has a large budget surplus, it can send "profit sharing" checks in equal amounts to its citzens. That is not socialism.
Socialism is where a central government takes what it does not OWN and gives it to those it deems approriate under a system it designs. |
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What a doofus! When Palin goes off reservation it's a good thing and she tells us the truth. When Barry goes off reservation he just sounds like a tool.
Psst, I know, let's just pretend that government taking your toys away to give to other boys and girls is the same as sharing them of your own freewill. Those rubes will never understand the difference! |
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It's not spin. I'm asking a simple question:
Our tax system is based off of lower wages paying lower percentages in taxes...and higher wages paying higher percentages. This is simply redistributing wealth, is it not??
And if not, at what point does it become Socialism? Is there a magic figure that sudenly makes it socialism? Right now, the highest income earners pay 35%. Obama wants to raise that to 39.6%....So in your mind, essentially somewhere in that 4.6% lies the threshold of socialism??? If so, I'd like to know what the exact crossover figure is!! |
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"manfredo writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 4:31 PM
which is it?
is obama the naive lightweight who will sell out our prosperity through incompotence? Or is he closely allied with domestic terrorists that will destroy this country from the inside with their unrepentant bombs? or will he just tax us into oblivion with his evil marxist ways?"
He isn't a naive lightweight. He is a lifelong radical with a genius for obscuring his beliefs.
He is closely allied with domestic terrorists, but as a Saul Alinsky disciple, he prefers to use the system to defeat it.
He won't be able to tax us into oblivion because big money is fleeing offshore right now, because voluntary compliance will confiscatory taxes will cease if he gets his wishes, and because an undergroud economy will arise. If Obama makes the radical changes he has pledged, tax revenues will fall by 50%.
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Obama chose to share his sandwich.
Communist sieze all assets and divvy them out to good comrades.
Is rape the same thing as consensual sex in Obama's world? Coercion vs consent, yeah same thing right?
Has Obama been to all 57 states yet? I am waiting for an update.
Coercion...based on a biological state. Unborn okay to kill it. What biological attribute is offlimits? Race, gender, IQ, hair color, DNA? Who gets to decide? In Obama's world Stephen Hawking would have been aborted prior to birth or immediately after if the abortionist botched the job. Let's see my first and only experience in the world suffocating in a plastic bag half full of bleach or having my head crushed in utero. Hmmm tough choice. |
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The story was debunked. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/11/clinton-st iffs-.html
At the end of the saga, you've got to love this example of GOP "generosity" though:
"Esterday's picture with the Senator also landed in a local newspaper. Her employer at the nursing home is not a Clinton fan and, since the photo appeared, the waitress claims her shifts have been reduced; she suspects the picture in the paper was the reason.
Despite everything, Esterday did take Clinton's pitch to heart: she's still deciding whether to support Clinton or Obama. |
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"LLR Let's see...McCain suports an elevating tax system that taxes higher incomes at a higher rate than lower incomes as well. So is McCain a socialist?? Have we been socialists all along??"
This is spin.
McCain does not support explicit re-distibution. Obama does. It's that simple.
The tax system McCain supports is a 100-year evolution.
Obama wants to add 7 credits to give welfare checks to people who don't pay taxes.
McCain believes that when people pay taxes they have a stake in their country.
Obama is a Socialist.
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ughhhh...pathetic. You said "But most of you that support Obama don't even belive in the right to life. You support a candidate that voted against saving babies that live through botched abortions."
Seriously?? How do you people call yourself intelligent and still believe this?? Yes, Obama is pro-choice. But what you just stated is a complete lie that just never dies with your side. There was ALREADY a law on the books in IL that protected any baby born alive thru a botched abortion...the new law was simply a way of putting more doctors at risk, and that's why Obama voted against it. How can you not know this?? Or admit that he might be pro-choice but that he doesn't support late-term abortions and partial-birth abortions, and all that crap that you still hang around his neck?? It's sad. I don't support McCain's policies, but at least I don't make up stuff about him to hate. |
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Old tactic Obama is using -- if your afraid of someone telling the truth about you -- then you must make a joke/prediction about the opposition doing it.
This is all but an admission that Obama embraces communism. |
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Notice how Obama goes back to his childhood? Same crap he came up with about Ayers.
He is an adult Thug! |
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"Life is an UNALIENABLE RIGHT"
Only until birth. After that, you're on your own, kid. |
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Our founding fathers revolted over taxes. They did not embrace taxes. In fact, taxes never were used by the federal government until the Civil War. And, the tax system, as we know it, came about far later.
Please don't malign the founding fathers. |
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Shoes, you did not listen to it.
If so you are a LIAR! |
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I/ve never been a waiter, but my daughter was when she was a young girl. She used to complain all the time about democrats not tipping or tipping poorly. How did she know? Well, I suspect that one would learn who their customers after a not too long period -- particularly if they are local pols.
I've also read what XDtke said in news articles. There were quite a few such articles when Hillary was running about her and her group not tipping or tipping poorly. And Hillary wasn't the only one.
Same as giving to charity. Poor folks give more per a whole bunch of stats that are frequently published in newspapers. Republicans give more than democrats took, according to these articles. |
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And let's say it again, as an earlier posting stated:
Did the government MAKE him supposedly share?
Or did he CHOOSE to supposedly share?
There's a BIG difference!
Besides, check his recent tax returns. He obviously struggles with CHOOSING to share. Copy and paste the link below to see Obama's giving from 2000 to 2006.
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/03/obama-relea ses.html
My goodness, I'm a stay-at-home, work-from-home mom--with a self-employed husband who makes less than 50K a year--and four kids ranging from ages 1 to 13 who all are or will be homeschooled at my expense of time and money--and I've given away a greater percentage of my annual income every year since college! And NOBODY made me! |
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If this is true, the republicans get the Jewish vote.
============================
Saw a clip from the tape. Reason we can't release it is because statements Obama said to rile audience up during toast. He congratulates Khalidi for his work saying "Israel has no God-given right to occupy Palestine" plus there's been "genocide against the Palestinian people by Israelis."
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/10/red-alert-tip-why- times-wont-release.html |
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The 2001 audio tape says nothing of the sort....for you it's like being scared in the middle of the night, and every creak of the house settling you think it's a monster. Except that the conservatives are truly up nights being scared...so they'll try to paint anything they see as Communist or Socialist. It's sad.
Let's see...McCain suports an elevating tax system that taxes higher incomes at a higher rate than lower incomes as well. So is McCain a socialist?? Have we been socialists all along??
No. Duh!!! You freak out just because Obama's plan taxes at a higher rate -- so according to you, there's an actual percentage cut-off line that separates our tax system from Socialism??? If so, please let us all know at what percentage it is ok, but anything higher is Socialism? |
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The world will begin to change only when you are ready to pronounce this oath:
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine.
Mr. Obama is a Marxist. It shows in his off-the-cuff statements, and in the people with whom and in the policies with which he has surrounded himself for years.
The “wealthy” of this nation (who by the way are also the producers of most of our goods, services and jobs) will remain “wealthy” precisely because they will continue to do the things that made them wealthy in the first place, and will find ways to protect their assets from the draconian tax policies of an Obama Administration. If this calls for such measures as cutting jobs in order to keep their businesses financially healthy, they will do so. They will have to.
From whom then will the Obama Administration extract the necessary taxes with which to pay for their social engineering? The floor for their tax hike has already dropped from $250k to $200k (Mr. Obama said both of these figures in the last debate), to now $150k, per Mr. Biden. Gaffe? Or “foaming the runway”?
You are next. I am next. We all are. Believe it. Protect your assets now.
When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.
– Ben Franklin
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Shery I will never feel sorry for a Lib.
Stupid is as Stupid does! |
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I didn't know that madrassas had PBJs.
Just like a socialist to talk about sharing his PBJ sandwich, but won't even think about sharing his wealth or doling out his campaign funds. In socialist countries, the people only get the crumbs while the leaders get the wealth. |
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The Louisiana Territory was not purchased for "housing". Jefferson sent his agents to France with the authorization to purchase NEw Orleans from Napoleon to aid the Southerners and Westerners in bringing their goods to market without having to pay the extremely high tarrifs and fees the Spanish and French required. Jefferson sent Louis and Clark to explore the territory to see what its uses would be.
Please don't argue that the state has the duty to protect life when your candidate has expressly refused the right to live to the unborn. In this regard, Obama is incredibly socialist/communist. Like the National Socialists in Germany and the Communists in the USSR and China, Obama, with his support for unfettered access to abortion, declared that certain people do not have the right to live.
Obama wishes to repeal the Hyde Ammendment which bans federal funding on abortion. He wishes to reverse the Mexico City policy that breaks the tie between foreign aid and requirements for abortion. He has promised to sign the Freedom of Choice Act, which, among other things, seeks to have insurance companies or the federal government pay for abortions and seeks to force doctors to perform them. He wishes to expand the killing of humans. How is this protecting life?
So Obama may not be protecting life, but what of government provided health care? Certainly that would, right? While government is notorious for waste, what will happen when the bureaucrats seek to cut costs (while enhancing their takehome pay)? It is far cheaper to force an abortion on a woman than pay for the birth of the child or the medical expenses of the child as it grows.
This is why Obama is a socialist/communist. He places more value on people's material things than he does on life itself. |
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I feel sorry for them. They live in a very dark and ugly world. |
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Peanut butter sandwiches were standard school lunch in Indonesia?
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Jeremy - you write:
you see "that among these are Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Life!!! If Life is an UNALIENABLE RIGHT, I ask you, how can readily available life-saving healthcare be a luxury for only the rich????
But most of you that support Obama don't even belive in the right to life. You support a candidate that voted against saving babies that live through botched abortions. How can we apply the right to life to a society when we don't even protect the unborn and traumatized babies? |
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Obama's mother was a communist in high school, writing a paper about the Communist Manifesto. She was an aggressive atheist and a communist all of her life. Obama's real father, Frank Marshall Davis was a communist as well, and he spent a great deal of time with young Obama in his teen years.
Over the course of his college and political life, Obama has attended many Marxist conferences. He says he doesn't believe in an "ownership society". Bill Ayers in his communist manifesto "Prairie Fire" states clearly that he desires a communist takeover of the United States, which will probably involve the murder of 25 million unrepentant capitalists.
Obama knows that 'growing the economy from the bottom up' doesn't work, because poor people, the proletariat, do not have the means of production or the capital to purchase means. When he takes money from those who are running businesses, giving it to the poorest wage earners, he is merely ensuring that more americans will be thrust into the lowest, poorest class, where they have to take whatever wage is offered them by the socialist state if they want to eat.
So don't tell me this life long marxist is not a communist. Ayers is, and communists do not support candidates who will not fight for communist policy. Radicals despise nonradicals. They don't spend time with them, or push them for office. |
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is obama the naive lightweight who will sell out our prosperity through incompotence? Or is he closely allied with domestic terrorists that will destroy this country from the inside with their unrepentant bombs? or will he just tax us into oblivion with his evil marxist ways?
you guys really need to get a grip. this nonsense is precisely the reason you are going to lose. America doesn't like you guys and your pathetic smear machine. all the REAL, PRO-AMERICAN parts of this country are going to elect Barack Obama to be your next president. then the ball will be in your court. love it or leave it, people. Love it or leave it.
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Any Libs here jacking their jaws, want to go and listen to Obama's 2001 Audio? The audio that accuses americans of being Nazi's
Obama is dead Serious about this communism thing, he wants our country to look like Castro's, look at who he has and is still associating with. Too bad the libs are trained little monkeys that can't think for themselves.
Poor Poor Libs! |
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Hey Shery, see you are getting the Lib Hate?
I heard that Obama's picture will be on the Foodstamps? Is that right?
The only Welfare Black President with his picture on the Foodstamps!
Quite appropriate! |
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Well of course he joked about it...because it's a silly and desperate attack. I was always so fond of McCain, but this election cycle really turned him away from the kind of guy he always was. (or at least I hope that's the excuse)
Please take the 10 minutes or so to read this article: http://www.slate.com/id/2203237/pagenum/all/
Obama was never talking about socialism or communism, even though that's an easier talking point for the GOP....Truly sad. |
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As David Gergen said, Reagan was the one with the "spread the wealth" notions:
"one of the most effective popular programs we've had in the last three decades. It's called the earned income tax credit. It's a program whereby, if you're a working person, a working couple and you're below the poverty line, the government will actually give you money. That's a redistributed program. It's a program which takes money from the upper classes and gives it to the lower -- to the working poor.
Now who started that program? The earned income tax credit? Ronald Reagan. It was one of the -- it was an achievement of the Reagan administration that Bill Clinton then built on.
So I think that these arguments are -- you know, some of them get so carried away that they don't recognize the realities of what we've been going through in public policy and the big arguments about why the wealth over the last 30 years has been redistributed. It's been redistributed upwards."
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Obama has said only incomes of $250K or more will see an increase in taxes. Maybe but I doubt it. He has stated he wants more entitlements programs for the "poor" wink wink. He also is in support of repatriations for the slaves. If you didn't know that.
Now today I hear Joe Blow Biden say that anyone making more than $150K will see a tax increase. Wow by the time he gets sworn in it will be down around the $25k bracket.
I would trust this guy any farther than I could throw him.
Get real the only thing that has come out of his mouth has been lies, lies about his associations, lies that keep on giving to those who don't work and don't have any plan to work
Remembe he said 95% of Americans will get a government hand out. Now he says only those who actually held a job will get one. But there are conditions, if you work you would have to qualify for zero taxes to get the entire amount. so the lowest income would get the majority of your taxes and mine.
What was that saying "screw'em let them eat cake"
A new day and a new twist.
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Envy has been unleashed by the Obamas, the most disgruntled couple in America. |
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Oh come on. "Obvious Democrats"? Were they sporting signs? My guess is that your service sucked. Nobody wants to tip a jerk - especially one who is prejudice about his patrons (as you apparently were). |
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I used to be a waiter and those that were obviously democrat were always the worst tippers and the most demanding for the service they were provided. |
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"Shery writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 4:02 PM
Why
Why do the left wing liberal feel that they deserve a piece of the pie if they haven't worked for it?
What mindset do you have to be in to assume that you are entitled to take from someone who has more?"
They call it a "right", which means they get it no strings attached.
The mindset is that I have suffered enough, or my ancestors suffered enough.
But under it all, it's just envy. Envy is the emotion that drives the modern world. And television is the engine for envy.
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Paul,
So what your tellin' me is that there is collective ownership of this land/means of production and there is an equal distribution of this wealth between all the citizens of the State of Alaska but that's not socialistic? |
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I have no problem with Mr. Obama sharing his peanut butter sandwich. That was quite republican of him. Probably the closest he has ever come.
When he comes and takes 3/4's of my peanut butter sandwich and gives it to 3 others that is what makes him a communist Democrat.
Fair is a word used only by school children and Democrats. |
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[And where exactly has McCain stated that his goal is to "spread the wealth"?]
Ah, okay. See that's what I didn't understand. You can actively (and/or passively by not doing anything to try and stop it) support the Federal government doing all of that wealth transferring from my pocketbook to their friends and favored interests, as long as you say you don't support it!
My God, it all makes perfect sense now! I am so sorry. How could I ever have thought that the Republicans believed in taking from we the people and giving that money to other parties. |
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"Dread writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 3:54 PM For those having a hard time distinguishing why Comrade Obama is the second coming of that genocidal Comrade Stalin, and Bush and McCain are real Americans and Capitalist believers in Free Markets, allow me to define what is Socialism for you and what is not Socialism.
Socialism: A 3% hike on the upper tax brackets"
This is a lie. Obama has also promised increases in capital gains taxes, Fica taxes, business taxes, and inheritance taxes.
And the funding for his new spending pledges of trillion+ per year has to come from somewhere.
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Why do the left wing liberal feel that they deserve a piece of the pie if they haven't worked for it?
What mindset do you have to be in to assume that you are entitled to take from someone who has more?
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"jeramy writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 3:47 PM
maldain
Tell that to the elderly who cannot afford to pay for the prescription drug coverage,"
Bush passed a Medicaire extension that gives seniors discounts that can amount to thousands a year on prescriptioin drugs.
There are already massive cost overruns.
My mother-in-law uses it. She was spending about $1500 a year more than she should because she didn't have the wherewithal to figure out how to use generics and associated private plans that can further decrease the costs. With a little effort, we corrected the problem.
This country would be a lot better off if liberals would spend time working with needy people to help them learn how to cope, than throwing other people's money at problems.
By the way, there are also Medicaide programs that give medicine to really poor people for free. Nothing wrong with them. the point is that there are already many many programs in place for needy people.
But people would rather call Bush an idiot and elect Socialists than spend a minute to help someone. |
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it's best just to laugh at 'em. :)
Obama/Biden '08 |
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friendlyenemies of the enemy?, megaglobal plannedbubbles?, iran-chavez-libcongre$$ "dreamed gas prices"?, no God at schools already?, opposed to Iraq war?, what the think on the war?, the enemy?, allies?, change the direction of the war?
mega electoral fraud acorn$?, mega economic bombings also fannie, enron, freddy... social assimetric weaponry, "invisible"...
vote Mcain, this is not sep the 11th 2001 AD-BI (Before Internet), there are also e armies along the defenses left (not touched by the libland darkness, that simple)
today's e comm:
order of the day: find and "kill" the enemy (intellectually, of course: ideas.
Strategy: replay their own statements on war, the enemy, the allied,
ask'm about (just in this moment?) megacrisis, planned, acorns (fannie, freddy, enron,etc $ociali$t assymetric weaponry)...
tactic: just jump into the new frontier, the cyberspace |
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He is just as misleading as Satan himself, this Obama is. Here's why --
He's purposely confusing and denegrating the issue by talking about what HE (supposedly) shared as a kid.
Sorry, OBAMA-the-slick-One, but communism IS NOT about sharing what YOU have, and you know it!!!
It's about TAKING from others who have worked for what they have, and "spreading the wealth around." (Ooh -- sound familiar??)
And, OBAMA! is well aware of it, too.
People -- run this charleton out of the country on a rail, and QUICK!! He doth surely speak with a fork-ed tongue. |
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For those having a hard time distinguishing why Comrade Obama is the second coming of that genocidal Comrade Stalin, and Bush and McCain are real Americans and Capitalist believers in Free Markets, allow me to define what is Socialism for you and what is not Socialism.
Socialism: A 3% hike on the upper tax brackets bringing Americans back to the dark days of that Bolshevik Comrade Clinton where we were all sent to the gulags and death camps for being dissident conservative voices.
Not Socialism: Nationalizing AIG, the banking industry, and (most likely) GM/Chrysler's merger. Turning vast powers over the economy to unelected appointed Executive officials. Transferring wealth via subsidies, costly tariffs and trade restrictions to the farming conglomerates, defense contractors that do not complete their contracts, and others favored by the Party.
I hope this brief primer helps you understand why Comrade Obama is a Marxist and our guys are true Americans.
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I don't mind if BHO shares HIS OWN peanut butter sandwich. I just don't want him to TAKE MY sandwich and give it to someone too lazy to get a job, go to the store and buy their own sandwich stuff. |
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David Gergen says it quite nicely here, Ronald Reagan actually started "spreading the wealth":
"You know, Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, was very much an advocate of what's called progressive taxation. Ad that is the rich pay more than the poor in terms of taxes.
Now, one of the most effective popular programs we've had in the last three decades. It's called the earned income tax credit. It's a program whereby, if you're a working person, a working couple and you're below the poverty line, the government will actually give you money. That's a redistributed program. It's a program which takes money from the upper classes and gives it to the lower -- to the working poor.
Now who started that program? The earned income tax credit? Ronald Reagan. It was one of the -- it was an achievement of the Reagan administration that Bill Clinton then built on.
So I think that these arguments are -- you know, some of them get so carried away that they don't recognize the realities of what we've been going through in public policy and the big arguments about why the wealth over the last 30 years has been redistributed. It's been redistributed upwards.
As we grow, the top 1 percent is getting a disproportionate share."
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"jeramy writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 3:42 PM
Paul
pre-tell, how does raising the income tax 3% on the wealthy destroy the American dream?? I always thought the American dream"
because it's a lie.
Everything that comes out of Obama's mouth is designed to neutralize an objection. That's his only skill.
He himself has pledged to increase Capital Gains taxes, FICA taxes, business taxes, death taxes (45% for those of you who might get an inheritance some day).
Another lie is the facile comment that only 95% of small business owners will see a tax hike. Well, 95% of small business owners constitute about 10% of the people who have jobs with small businesses. Cleverly framed, but essentially, a lie, like virtually everything Obama says. Neutralization....it's all about neutralization of objections.
Jeramy, you seem like a smart enough guy. Do you read anything? Have you ever practiced critical listening?
You come on this site and spit out the Obama neutralization talking points...otherwise known as lies. Give it a rest.
And go read about the man's past and his plans.
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I don't mind if BHO shares HIS OWN peanut butter and jelly sandwich. What bothers me is he wants to TAKE MY sandwich and give it to someone too lazy to get a job, go to the store and buy their own sandwich stuff. |
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Nobody says the lady working 2 jobs is a bum. Nobody is saying the homeless guy is necessarily a bum.
What conservatives are saying is that whether by luck, hard work, or intellect, and whether we are discussing human beings or a dogs or squirrels, some individuals are just better at determining what is valued in the world and implementing a way of life to capture the best of it.
In some cases, some do find themselves, through no fault of their own, at the bottom end of that spectrum. It is not always fair.
But neither is it fair for you or Obama or any of the other self-described intellectuals to force on the world, a contrived view of how it should be; to take from those who have succeeded to hand to those who for whatever reason have not.
In the end the basic equation never changes.
Nature is smarter than you are, no matter how much you attribute to luck and corruption, no matter how culturally evolved you and your fellow leftists have convinced yourselves you are.
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I don't mind if BHO shares HIS OWN peanut butter and jelly sandwich. What bothers me is he want to TAKE MY sandwich and give it to someone too lazy to get a job, go to the store and buy their own sandwich stuff. |
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Your examples are making my point.
According to you:
Louisiana Purchase = Government Housing
Bill of Rights = Universal Healthcare**
What's next:
Freedom of Speech = Fairness Doctrine For Conservative Talk Radio
Also, you still have not answered whether you agree with Lord Obama that the constitution has a "fundamental flaw" even to this day. Sounds like Obama should try reading the founding documents upside down while standing on his head like you.
**Footnote: Right to life and universal healthcare do not apply to the unborn or infants who survive abortions. |
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Tell that to the elderly who cannot afford to pay for the prescription drug coverage, or the dialysis patient who cannot afford to have metabolic toxins removed from his/her blood ever week, or the child who dies of a congenital heart condition because his/her family could not afford a standard physical or the EKC test that would have revealed and precluded his/her death... or how about the 1.4 million Americans who had to declare bankruptcy last year because of medical bills, that must be great for our economy. |
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Senator Barrack Obama Democratic-socialist?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Democratic_socialism
Democratic socialism is difficult to define, and groups of scholars have radically different definitions for the term. Some definitions of democratic socialism simply refers to all forms of socialism that follow an electoral, reformist or evolutionary path to socialism, rather than a revolutionary one.
I simply shorten the definition to lending towards Socialism.
I got my Senate voting data at http://SenateReports.com
Lending: To contribute or impart.
Contribute: To help bring about a result; act as a factor.
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/10/red- alert-obama-signed-up-with.html
As recently as 1996 Senator Obama had signed a contract with the Chicago Democratic Democratic-socialist Party (also known as the DSA for Democratic Democratic-socialists of America) to promote the party's goals.
http://www.chicagodsa.org/
Our mission is to establish democratic socialism as a political force in the United States and around the world by training and mobilizing democratic-socialist activists to participate in a vibrant and diverse democratic-socialist organization at both the local and the national level. DSA both educates the public about democratic democratic-socialist values and policies and builds progressive coalitions to win victories that move the U.S. and the world toward social democracy... In the long term, democratic democratic-socialists fight for a world in which all people share equally in the governing of the economic, political and cultural institutions and relationships that shape their lives.
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"jeramy writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 3:37 PM
don
We both know that the $1 trillion is an "apporximation" by the GOP "
Some of the promises:
universal health care,
universal pre-K,
7 tax credits to be paid even if taxes=0,
$120B to foreign countries,
Obama's Brown Shirts,
unstated massive investments in education (but not reading and writing, of course),
$100B for renewable fuels,
bail-out of Detroit,
job training,
free college,
unspecific investments in "infrastructure"
And that isn't even the re-distribution part.
$1 trillion doesn't even touch it.
Now, do I believe he would get there. Even with the noted fools Pelosi and Reid, probably not. Why....well there would be a revolution first, of course.
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Communistic, sure. But REAGAN! Now THERE was a man! Reagan raised taxes (darn Communist) and had a higher tax rate for the wealthy. Communist, but WHAT A GREAT MAN!
Earned Income Tax Credit? Great idea, but it was the brainchild of that GREAT MAN REAGAN! Communistic Reagan, I know, I know, but WHAT A GREAT AMERICAN!
Old Con view: Reagan = greatest American EVER!
New Con view: but if we have to return to Reagan's ideas, THEN THE SCARY COMMUNISM MONSTER IS UNDER YOUR BED!
Bunch a crybabies. Learn some history. |
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it is his life. Everyone jokes about what they know best...need we know more?
And, clue to Obamaites, it's not about the peanut butter sandwich sharing, it's about confiscation of hard earned money for the "state" to decide where to spend...that my folks is PURE COMMUNISM! |
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pre-tell, how does raising the income tax 3% on the wealthy destroy the American dream?? I always thought the American dream was to have a house for your family, to be able to pay for you children's health care and education, to make life better for the next generation than it was for yours. Now, as far as I can tell, people earning 250k+ a year are not really in danger of losing any of those things by paying 3% more in income tax. If you have evidence to to the contrary, lets see it. But don't just give me hyperbole, give me facts and numbers. |
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Dread writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 2:22 PM
Unless Comrade McCain stands opposed to the transfer of vast amounts of wealth from the government (public taxes current and future) to buy ownership in banks, insurance companies, and, coming soon, automotive companies, he doesn't have a leg to stand on."
And where exactly has McCain stated that his goal is to "spread the wealth"?
Your idiot comment would be like saying I'm Charles Manson because I stepped on an ant.
It's a matter of degree, and the contrast between McCain and Obama is like night and day to someone with a child's powers of comprehension. |
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Not to point out the obvious but life saving medical care is available to everybody in the US. If you're sick or hurt either go to the emergency room at your local hospital. If you're hurt bad enough call the paramedics who will stabilize you and then have you transported to the nearest emergency room. I'm sorry but the fact is that nose jobs, liposuction, silicone implants and botox aren't a right and they aren't life saving. If you're referring to more serious diseases there are a number of public facilities which will treat patients that can't afford the treatment they are called county hospitals. If you're referring to routine checkups then there are free clinics in every city of this nation just look em up. So saying you can't get health care because you're poor is just completely false. |
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We both know that the $1 trillion is an "apporximation" by the GOP and has never been independently verified. As a matter of fact, most noteworthy economists suspect that McCain's planned tax cuts will cost far more than Obama's spending and is likely to increase the deficit catastrophically. Furthermomre, McCain's supposed "spending freeze" will preclude our government from making its necessary appropriations to the NIH (you know those people that cure diseases), the DOE (you know those people who are researching alternative sources of energy) but, as you have already mentioned, McCain will continue our military expenditures in Iraq. Doesn't it seem pretty counterproductive to invest more money in killing people than curing them... to invest more money in securing expendable energy resources in a foreign country than researching renewable energy resources in our own country? Just a thought |
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and I don't appreciate watching Obama on a video mocking it as if it is all a lie. He went to church for 20 years and professed to be a born again Christian and then turns around and makes fun of the very things he says he were what taught him to love the lord. He is the hypocirit, and a Liar to boot. And YOU are a blind fool who follows a liar because you apparently don't have the sense to think for yourself.
Do yourself a favor and watch the tape, then blast me if you must, but at least buck up and smell the roses first. |
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communism is it nit you in the butt.
All the liberals here are screaming Obama's NOT a communist and then spewing the very definition of communism in describing his philosophies!
jeramy - You say "Raising the income tax from 36% to 39% is NOT communism, it is an attempt to help the 95% of Americans who are struggling to have a shot at the American dream." So you want to DESTROY the American dream in order to give everyone a shot at it??
Piltz13 and angel66 - The land is the property of the State of Alaska! Their dealings with the oil companies are business transaction, not government policies! They vave a valuable resource. Oil companies pay them to use it. It's a fantastic way to fund the government instead of bleeding the citizens dry! Grow up!
And BTW, angel, the fact that Alaskans collectively own state resources and share in the profits is the farthest thing from communism. because in communism it's the STINKING GOVERNMENT that owns ALL the resources!
F - America is already a socialist state. You think anyone here would deny that? And you seriously expect any red-blooded American to turn down a tax deduction when we're already being hammered beyond belief?? Deductions aren't redistribution. They're a very limited means of saving some of your cash from getting re-distributed!
And F, in response to your sneering degradation of the Bible, I'll answer your questions for myself. Talking snake - yes. Burning bush - yes. Moses 100 yrs old - yes. God is all-powerful. Therefore his will is not subject to your own personal view of what's possible and what's not. But thanks for playing, it's always nice to field yet another stupid question from someone who's clueless about the subjects they're so hotly opinio0nated about.
THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU"RE SAYING PEOPLE! |
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Let's peel back some layers of political hoo-ha and see where the idea of redistribution of wealth comes from. Hint: it's not from the framers, Jeramy.
Article I Section 9 is the Framer's intent, "No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken." This was written in 1787.
Plank 2 of the 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto is, "A heavy progressive or graduated income tax." The Communist Manifesto was published in 1848.
"Progressives" wealth redistribution needed a graduated income tax. Their intent is the 16th Amendment, "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." It was passed in 1913.
At least they had the decency to amend the Constitution rather than the current "progressive" idea to ignore it and call it "a living, breathing document" and derive powers not granted or enumerated in Constitution to the Federal government. But they were dishonest in that income redistribution was not part of the 16th Amendment explicitly, only income taxing. But I believe the above trajectory is accurate. "Progressives" took much from the Communist Manifesto. Doesn't make it American. Makes it foreign.
The Louisiana Purchase was a housing project? Really? Our homestead in South Dakota didn't come with a house. Hey, we were robbed. |
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I turn the channel as soon as he opens his mouth. But today I gave a listen until I heard him making a joke out of a serious matter. PLEASE wake up America and vote McCain/Palin |
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This candidate only wants to raise taxes on those making $250.000 or more a year. Sounds good to me, I never made that in a year and don’t believe I’ve made that much throughout my entire working life. Who are these evil people making that kind of money and not sharing with us? I think I found them; they are just normal people with a desire to build a business with hard work, determination, and solid work ethics .They started off small and worked 18 to 20 hours a day, six and seven days a week, often never taking a vacation or spending much time with their families in order to make a better life for them in the future. Now they have a few employees who work for them and pay taxes and raise their own families. Just when he/she thinks they can take their pack off and rest because they earned it, along comes some___?____(fill in the blank) who says he is going to take that money they earned and give to people who have not earned it so we can be fair. The American way used to be: tell them to get a job and pay taxes like the rest of us. Now that’s fair. You have a right in this country to be anything you chose to be and one of them is poor. I just don’t believe the rest of us should have to carry you. When you get tired of being poor you’ll do something about it. |
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"CATX writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 3:13 PM
Palin governor of welfare state
She talks about socialism and redistributing wealth.... Alaska is a WELFARE STATE, the small population takes more in taxes from the feds than they pay....... irony!"
what a dolt
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jeramy writes: Wednesday, October, 29, 2008 3:04 PM
Don
Are you seriously arguing that 36% income tax is okay but 39% is "income confiscation at gun point".
No, I'm arguing that Obama is a liar.
His tax increases will include brackets, FICA, Capital Gains, and Business taxes, at least. You know about all of them.
His spending plans are 1 trillion annually. I could list the 20 plus items, but you are already excited about all the "free" stuff you will get. Obama will either have to increase taxes or print the money. It will not come from smoke. And if you think decreasing the Military Budget will do it, think again. The military budget is $650B. That will only cover a fraction.
Then, big money will flee offshore (it already is doing that, by the way, but we haven't seen the least of it yet), and smart money will begin concentrating on tax evasion instead of production.
Inflation will shoot up, just like it did in the Carter administration.
But of course, it's more than that. The man is a committed Socialist / Communist. That's why he doesn't have a single friend that he can bring forward. I'm surprised he published that book where he described his philosophies. He has hidden everything else.
In a few slips of the tongue, he has told us his primary goal is to correct the "flaw" in the Constitution that allowed slavery. He intends to redistribute wealth in a big way. Any fool can see that in any number of things he says, going back nearly 20 years. And those things are only the sanitized versions.
If he gets elected, the country as we know it is toast. You may like that, but when the producers stop producing, you just might change your mind. That is why Socialism has failed every time it has been tried. Ask the chicoms, if you are confused about it. |
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Sharing a sandwich is not communism for cripes sake. He got to choose to share it. But if someone forces you to be taxed to share your money, I daresay, that IS communism. |
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Obama’s Communist Mentor
by Cliff Kincaid
February 18, 2008
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/
However, through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his "poetry" and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just "Frank."
....Frank Chapman, a CPUSA supporter, has written a letter to the party newspaper hailing the Illinois senator's victory in the Iowa caucuses.
"Obama's victory was more than a progressive move; it was a dialectical leap ushering in a qualitatively new era of struggle," Chapman wrote. "Marx once compared revolutionary struggle with the work of the mole, who sometimes burrows so far beneath the ground that he leaves no trace of his movement on the surface. This is the old revolutionary ‘mole,' not only showing his traces on the surface but also breaking through."
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What about the other 47 to 50 percent of us? Does Obama and the crats think we will lay down and worship them? The crats fought Bush and Conservatives at every turn. Get ready Obama. We are not going to just go quietly into the night. We would like a government for the people and we will not stand for a Chavez style socialist state. The tighter you squeeze the more resistance you will feel. America has sent a message that neither Party gets. We don't want the extreme of either Party ruling like Monarchs. With Congress at 9 percent approval what do the DC idiots think we are trying to tell them? For all you dolts out their talking about change, the libs are just singing the same old tired song. For all the talk of helping to educate the children and save the poor, the stupid are still stupid and the poor are still poor in spite of billions the libs spent on failed social engineering. Nobama noway. |
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Okay, I covered the housing one (though you evidently don't like the fact that I actually found an example). Now lets move onto healthcare... for this one I will not quote the Constitution but I will quote its Grandfather, the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." ... you see "that among these are Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Life!!! If Life is an UNALIENABLE RIGHT, I ask you, how can readily available life-saving healthcare be a luxury for only the rich???? |
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It's being reported Obama said,
"Israel has no God-given right to occupy Palestine"
and
There has been "genocide against the Palestinian people by Israelis"
Source: http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/
WRITE THE LA TIMES DEMANDING THE RELEASE OF THE VIDEO:
Readers.Rep@latimes.com |
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She talks about socialism and redistributing wealth.... Alaska is a WELFARE STATE, the small population takes more in taxes from the feds than they pay....... irony!
Wealth constantly distributed within a society, just past 8 years it has gone up..... now time for middle class. Ironically people at repug rallys middle class but they want tax cuts for the rich for some reason.... I just dont get it! |
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I cant believe this guy is ahead in the polls. He is an absolute joke. How can he compare sharing toys to his proposed communist ideas. Simply unbelievable. We are in some serious trouble if this guy wins |
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"The state that she governs has no income or sales tax. Instead, it imposes huge levies on the oil companies that lease its oil fields. The proceeds finance the government’s activities and enable it to issue a four-figure annual check to every man, woman, and child in the state. One of the reasons Palin has been a popular governor is that she added an extra twelve hundred dollars to this year’s check, bringing the per-person total to $3,269.
A few weeks before she was nominated for Vice-President, Palin told a visiting journalist—Philip Gourevitch, of this magazine—that "we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs." |
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Did he really say he would be called a communist because he shared his toys and sandwiches? What a simpleton. Does he know how to balance his savings account? Can he tie his shoe laces?
Could you imagine the press if a Republican were to make such a stupid comment. |
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