Friday, December 29, 2006
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Trevino: Death of the Tikriti
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Posted by:
Hugh Hewitt at
8:39 PM
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A guest post from Josh Trevino:
I am against the death penalty. The only left-wing advocacy event I have ever attended, in fact, was a 2001 anti-death penalty rally in Greenwich Village featuring Sister Helen Prejean. In this, I depart from my fellow-travelers in conservatism, the great majority of whom are very much in favor of the lawful killing of the murderous and the depraved in society. It is difficult to gainsay them in this: the people whom they wish to kill are, in theory, the right people to kill. Opposition to their position has a regrettable tendency to transform into a defense of the indefensible. Witness, for example, the ridiculous fetishization of the late Stanley "Tookie" Williams -- a disgusting charlatan who emerged from a life of killing and mayhem to a transformation into a jailhouse saint. In opposing the right of the state to execute, one must avoid the temptation to assume that the objects of one's defense are good. They are generally not. (An exception here are the uncounted numbers of erroneously-convicted -- and erroneously-executed -- whose existence is a major factor in my unwillingness to credit the state with this power.) They are by and large the worst among us, whose bestial crimes and inhuman horrors transgress our moral bounds, even in an age where those bounds are indistinct and increasingly stretched.
It is easy for the opponent of the death penalty to rationalize the sparing of the "ordinary" criminal. The sociopath who kills a stranger is, for all the profundity of his act, nonetheless a localized evil. Endless incarceration removes him and the macro-scale reverberations of his crime from the lives and, presumably, the memories of the law-abiding citizenry. Obviously those who loved the victim may feel differently: I do not minimize their suffering here, but I do note that it is uniquely theirs, and as such not necessarily a concern of the polity at large. In America, our criminal law as inherited from England -- and specifically embodied in the concept of the "King's peace" -- is not meant to provide direct recompense to a victim, or an indirect victim, by means of the suffering of the criminal. Those victims must draw whatever solace they may from the state's punishment, as inflicted on the state's behalf. Pace Michael Dukakis, would I feel differently if, say, my wife were subjected to outrage and death? Of course: that is the human condition, and that is why we disallow direct personal vengeance in favor of a system of law. Thus, though it is easy to defend a policy of life in peacetime, if done without acknowledgment of, and compassion for, the anguish of those hurt by the criminal, it is reduced to mere moral posturing: an exercise in self-righteousness done not for the sake of justice, but for the sake of oneself. That is the calculation, attendant to the fate of the "ordinary" criminal.
And then there is Saddam Hussein.
The terrors of the dictator need no in-depth recapitulation here. Saddam Hussein killed strangers, friends, and family throughout his bloody career. He was a bloodthirsty paranoiac in the Stalinist mold, and in his prime, he held sway over millions -- and slew a few hundred thousand of them. Unlike our hypothetical "ordinary" criminal, he was no localized evil. He was, rather, a grand evil on the world-historical scale -- a menace-in-being akin to a Hitler, a Stalin, or a Napoleon, and separated from their immensity only by the fortune of the comparatively pitiful nation into which he was born. And he is about to die.
It must be admitted that the killing of Saddam Huseein is a confounding event for an opponent of the death penalty like me. The ranks of those wholly meriting the final moments of agony, the fear of eternal horror, and the dread of God's justice are -- with respect to my Calvinist friends! -- small, but he is assuredly among them. There can be no sympathy for him as he struggles his last at the end of a rope: indeed, he will even then be in sublime comfort set against the twisting agony of the Kurdish children he gassed. There can be no regret for his lost potential, as he fully expressed it in his creation of a hideous police-state that consumed its children and ravaged its land. Nor can be sorrow for his circumstance, as he was master of his fate in his long decades of absolute power -- the only free man in Iraq -- and used his freedom to choose death and misery in full. The thing that will be done to him -- his execution -- is intrinsically wrong. But the things that he will feel as a result, in those final moments and beyond, will be right. Most victims of the gallows may be said to earn their fates: Saddam Hussein may be said to have chosen it.
The expectations and hopes that the likes of the old dictator would spend his life descending into madness in a dank cell were never realistic. Iraqi society is, to be charitable, primitive in many respects; and the idea that law and justice are not functions of personal vengeance finds small purchase there. In that light, we may regret that the state we created there is executing its criminals: but we may also be grateful that in this case, it was done with the veneer of legality -- for form may become substance in time -- and that it was done to the most deserving of men. For our own sakes, we hope for a merciful God, who will forgive even the worst among us. For Saddam Hussein's sake, we hope for a just God, whose face he never sees, obscured as it is by the visages of his countless victims.
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The possibility of executing an innocent man is not among the factors at present. The need to condemn those who terrorize as Saddam has done is necessary if one wants to advocate that some behavior is "good" and other "evil". Any remaining "hopes" of those who wish his return to power will be extinguished only as his life is. We hope all Iraqis will rise above their own "group interests" to agree that someone guilty of Saddam's crimes deserves the punishment, and a more just Iraq is being formed.
(I believe he will meet a God who is both more merciful and more just than any mere man can fathom, as we all will.) |
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You said, "(An exception here are the uncounted numbers of erroneously-convicted -- and erroneously-executed -- whose existence is a major factor in my unwillingness to credit the state with this power.)"
How do you prove the existence of the uncounted? Is one too many or is it thousands?
Nice post. I have no real problems with death-penalty opponents as long as they aren't pro-abortion. My liberal friends can't understand what I'm asking when I bring up the fact that the two positions are ironic. |
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Enjoyed the disertations of an individual obviously debating with himself on the pitfalls of capital punishment. I've done so myself on numerous occasions (I'm 72 years of age). At the conclusion of all debates concerning this subject I usually relate the storied reply of Judge Roy Bean upon a journalist question of why he always hung horse thieves and released some murderers..."Never was a horse that needed stealing, but some men need killing." Saddam definitely needs killing. |
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It was Hugh many years ago on the Sunday night KFI show that converted me from the death penalty.
His arguement that it did not allow the opportunity of redemption struck home. In almost every case, that single point sways me on the issue.
I will concur with Ben though, on Saddam. It is very rare (I can't recall the last time I supported an execution) but this is a rare case. |
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http://digbysblog.blogspot.com
" I'm not going to lose any sleep over Saddam Hussein's death but I can't help but wonder what would have happened if the US had behaved like a world leader and sent him to be tried in the International Criminal Court instead of having the "Iraqi government" (which clearly has no real legal system) stage a show trial and now execute him in the middle of a civil war.
"Call me crazy but it just seems to me that would have shown that we care about the rule of law and removed the festering wound of Saddam from the workings of the current government which was bound to exacerbate the sectarian hatreds. Of course, that would have meant that the Iraqi government was a paper tiger and it was very important to the Republicans that they be able to wave their purple fingers in everyone's faces.|
Basically Bush's insane contempt for international law -- and his desire to make sure the U.S. wasn't implicated in Saddam's crimes -- made even this less of a triumph of justice than it could've been.
BTW, oddly enough, I'm a liberal and I have very little problem with the death penalty (it seems to be becoming less popular among conservatives, which I think is good -- pro-lifers should be pro-life, and us pro-death liberals should be pro-death) |
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The execution of Saddam Hussein is a segue into whining about the Bush Administration.
What isn't? |
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The crime he was convicted of was against the Iraqi people, so an Iraqi court is an entirely proper venue for Saddam. Their reasoning was molded by their own mores and folkways; Iraqi laws, Iraqi customs, Iraqi justice.
That said I struggle with the death penalty myself because judgement is God's. Yet there is a difference between the unborn who haven't entered into a social contract and an individual who has and violated it in the worst way possible. In abortion we kill the unborn who are innocents. In Saddam they kill someone who has committed horrendous crimes -- nerve gas, throwing people off buildings, having women raped by specially trained dogs, throwing people into industrial shredders...alive, and so on.
So while I think judgement is God's and I am extremely reluctant to condone the death penalty, I do not think it is hypocrisy for people who are against abortion to also support the death penalty...nor do I think this crime should have been tried in an international court.
I agree with Ben and Paul that in this very extreme case I can live with the death penalty -- it is rare. The crime was against his people, and his people decided according to their perochial values and belief system.
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snapdigger's rants and raves are occasionally equal to capital punishment.
By the way, snapdigger, the left was ALWAYS in favor of capital punishment during the 20th Century. They just preferred to call it by another name---"Communist Revolution." |
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Hitler, Stalin ... and Napoleon??
That little bit kind of made me lose faith in the rest of the opinion. |
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Snap? That kinda justice? Drag it out till you finally pass? I am afraid Digby is totally wrong. So called 'International' justice has not worked since shortly after WW2, and I see no reason why it will work now. I am all kinds of happy that that mass murderer had to face his victims and after 3 years of judicial proceedings that may not have been perfect, led to a verdict, an appeal and final judgement. His victims got closure to a degree. Slobodan's never did. |
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The phrase is: "a menace-in-being akin to a Hitler, a Stalin, or a Napoleon."
The point is not that Napoleon was as evil as Hitler or Stalin -- though he was assuredly evil -- but that he was a leader whose very existence was inimical to civilized life and peace. Which is why he ended up on St Helena. |
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"The point is not that Napoleon was as evil as Hitler or Stalin -- though he was assuredly evil"
I don't believe that Napoleon was evil. |
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The concept among those opposed to the death penalty is the assurance of life imprisonment- who could guarantee the continued imprisonment of Saddam Hussein in Iraq as being secure? How could the people know that he would never engineer an escape? |
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"Nor can be sorrow for his circumstance, as he was master of his fate in his long decades of absolute power -- the only free man in Iraq -- and used his freedom to choose death and misery in full."
While Saddam appeared to be the "only free man in Iraq" he was not only a prisoner to his personal demons, and clearly he had many, he was always a preferred target of many, hated by millions, the father of even sicker sons, and a wimpering child. (Remember him caught cowering like a coward in a "spider hole"?)
"That said I struggle with the death penalty myself because judgement is God's."
The Biblical teaching re. God's judgment has nothing to do with temporal existance, it is about eternity. Saddam is not waving his gnarled and blood-stained finger at God just now.
Saddam was a citizen of a secular world convicted by a secular government. God allows those in authority to be in authority and doesn't fuss the details of silly day-to-day stuff -- He is concerned about our eternal well-being or termination.
There is no Biblical argument against the death penalty, the Apostle Paul was elevated to the equivalent of an Apostle after murdering many of the followers of Christ and the Apostle Peter invoked the power of God to strike dead Ananias & Sapphira for lying.
We are not to worry about Saddam or anyone else's time here on earth re. their opportunity to repent and to be redeemed, God has that under control. He has delegated the authority to make decisions about the law and is OK with capital punishment so long as it is performed in an ethical manner.
If Saddam was to listen to God and repent God would get to him at the moment his neck snapped or sooner -- let's not put God in the little human box of "more years of life = better chance for salvation". He doesn't fit!
D.Colburn in Florida |
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Aloha from the Forvm!
It's funny, I'm ok with the death penalty in the most obvious and heinous of cases, like Hussein. Yet, I feel no celabratory moment here.Was this act just? Certainly. Was it wrong? I think the answer is no. But executions don't, and should almost never, creat anything but a melancholy evening.
In your view, can a man do anything without sacrificing his claim on his humanity? |
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If we were able to contract with Turkey or Mexico ...I understand that they have bid to take our prisoners at a huge savings to taxpayers... to incarcerate our most heinous offenders, I might think the deterrent would be equal or superior to the death penalty. We will never do this because we believe so strongly in human rights. Where is the deterrent when you can torture and murder with only the threat of prisons with television, three squares a day, workout rooms and libraries, and that only after passing through a criminal justice system that sets amazingly high standards for conviction. The aim of capital punishment is justice and deterrence and should never be revenge. Finally, the God of the Bible is inseparably and perfectly just and merciful. Good news, there is time for even the most heinous on death row to know God and receive mercy. |
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As a fellow Christian, pro-life absolutist and conservative, the moral quandary that Saddam's execution presents was a difficult one for me to resolve. Are there exceptions to the rule? And if not someone on the scale of Saddam's horror, who?
Your post, Josh, showed me that yes, there are exceptions. And yes, Saddam is one of them.
Rot in hell, Saddam, and be reminded every single minute of every single day for the rest of eternity that you had a choice, and a chance to escape the suffering you are in. |
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As a Christian and pro-lifer, I have no problem with capital punishment.
Other than having potential parents that are cr*p, what crimes have the child committed?
Saddam was judged for his actions. You go into a liquor store and kill a man because you are to lazy to get a job than you deserve to be judged by societies rules. You went into that store knowing that if you kill this person and get caught, you may be put to death for your actions.
No conflict for me. The Bible does not say thou shalt not kill. It say thou shalt not commit murder. Big difference. God is the final judge and now he will be, so he can burn in Hell.
Psalm 144: 1 "Blessed be the Lord, My rock, Who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle." |
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With the hanging of Saddam it is certain that there will be no hostages taken to trade for his freedom or attempts to rescue rescue him. That, at least, is settled.
In most cases there is an element of doubt, however small, that the execution will prevent future deaths. In Saddam's case there is no doubt. |
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The term "pro-life" is an abbreviation for pro-*i*n*n*o*c*e*n*t* life. Too many people have forgotten that the word innocent anchors what pro-life means. When cut loose from that anchor in reality, the term pro-life becomes the drivel of the doughheaded.
A word to the hand-wringing holier-than-God Christians among us (especially the Catholics): As some Christian sects veer into raising same-sex marriage into a new dogma amongst them, there are Christian sects raising turn-the-other-neck-to-the-murderer into their new dogma. Get over it! |
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I don't get from it though the basis for your opposition to the death penalty.
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Hugh:
You are missing something basic.
Of course you don't trust Government to honestly process Death Penalty cases. Any sane person would, like you, not trust the Government with something so important.
Likewise, the Government cannot be trusted with something so important as LIFE IMPRISONMENT of convicted killers. Many have murdered again and/or escaped to kill, and have been given lenient sentences so they can get out and murder again - by the same Government you don't trust to execute people. |
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I know it is difficult to understand but there are individuals out there who do not fear being sent to prison. It's an alternative lifestyle. They get to catch up with some of their friends and settle scores with their enemies. The death penalty, however, is a different story. It does stop some of them. Not all but at least a few. And, of course, there are innocents, women and children, who would be alive today if some murderers had not been freed from prison. Because waiving the death sentence is only the first step in many cases. That is one very dangerous and slippery mud slide. You can't give murderers a pass without creating the possibility that someone else may die. How many women sit at home, condemned to living a life in fear, knowing that some creature they helped send to jail may be looking for them in ten years? I am sure mistakes will be made and someone who does not deserve to be executed will die in the future. But that happens every day on the road, in hospitals and in the home. We don't shut down the road, the hospital or the home when it happens. Saddam is the easy case. But there really isn't much difference when you consider the petty monsters who roam around our country. One picked out a home at random here in Richmond recently and tied up the father, mother and child. He put duct tape on their mouths and he slit their throats. I believe the father watched this unfold before he died. What is the difference? A society that does not do everything it can to stop this from happening will never be just. |
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Does anyone remember ted bundy? They all thought he was so cute they let him escape and several lovely young female students, in Florida, were murdered. No one should revel at sadam's death, however, if I had family that was put in a chopper, gassed, or raped by him, his sons, or his underlings I suppose I would be dancing in the streets. I appreciate Doc for his posts. I also believe that God will be his final judge, but that will be in the eternities. I know there would've been many attempts to get him out of jail, and to reestablish his dictatorship. The people are better off with his death, and so are the American soldiers. |
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"The term "pro-life" is an abbreviation for pro-*i*n*n*o*c*e*n*t* life. Too many people have forgotten that the word innocent anchors what pro-life means. When cut loose from that anchor in reality, the term pro-life becomes the drivel of the doughheaded."
Well put, I will have to remember this for the future. |
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The references to Tookie Williams and the death row inmates made famous in "Dead Man Walking"( Sister Helen Prejean) each share something in common with Saddam. They all laughed in the face of western culture's abhorrance of killing of innocent life, but when they faced the Justice of Western culture they attempted to appeal to the highest moral principles of that same culture to buy another day of life. They attempted to push feelings of guilt upon us. Like all evil, they attempt to use our goodness to lower our drawbridges to the army of monsters in human form that not only terrorize and kill for profit, but they get off on it.
Tookie laughed openly about the "Buddha-heads" how they died and "gurgling sounds" that his victims made. Saddam and his sons are infamous in their delight and titilation over finding new ways to snuff life (i.e. meat grinders, etc.). Saddam attempted to appeal to a US court to stay his execution yesterday. There are those on the Daily Kos I see that bought it.
It is unfortunate, but true that we are forced to push a burden on victims that they are obligated to press our government for punishment and even , yes, vengence. Revenge is an underratted aspect of Justice. If Reginald Denny openly forgives Football Williams for crushing his skull, claiming falsely that it is the christian thing to do, he is failing his fellow citizens and inviting other Thugs to crush our skulls too.
Lest we think Revenge is a vulgar emotional reaction as opposed to a component of Justice, consider the Death of Timothy McVeigh. Of the 38% of Americans that claim to oppose the Death Penalty, a majority favored McVeigh's Execution. That's not a majority of Americans I'm talking about...its a majority of death penalty foes. http://twinklebones.blogspot.com/2006/11/death-penalty-foes-for-mcveigh.html .
What emotional reaction drives those numbers? Who knows?
Saddam holds a special place in the annals of Death Penalty stories. Stalin, Hitler, even Goerring didn't reach the gallows. Mussolini didn't receive a real trial before his execution by the mob. All of these monsters used absolute terror to ride the vehicle of State over innocent people. As long as they breathe, the terror denies the innocent freedom. Tookie can't do that alone. Saddam could. Tookie can only achieve that, if we rally our popular culture to lower the drawbridge to the murderers that would follow his lead.
Saddam is different in that he was a Baathist dictator that modeled himself openly on Hitler and Stalin because he knew it worked. He planned it, he acted on it, and upon admonishment by the entire world in 1991, he continued it for another decade. He was caught, he was tried, he was forced to exhale his last breath. There are many innocent people that breathed a sigh of relief knowing he will not return. He underestimated Western Culture's love for Freedom, it's love for Justice and it's will to act. It was another step in the draining of the swamp called the middle east.
Let us hope that other Totalitarian monsters like Ahmendinaijad recognize that the Drawbridge was raised a bit last night, as his former neighbor and Hitler wannabe beyond the Persian border has been introduced to the Justice of the West. I don't apologize for hastening Justice, only in my tardiness. |
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The recividism rate among executed criminals is zero.
The victim's need for justice is subsumed to the state's...what a load of postmodernist crap. We gave the state authority to avenge in order to prevent the chaos of vigilantism. But, that state sponsored venegance must still satisfy the VICTIM, not whatever legal fad is currently giving the state vapors.
As for the "King's Peace"- we don't have kings. That's why we left. |
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As we all know, shooting Chomsky for treason would not be an act of unwarranted violence, but a good start!
http://joshua.trevino.at/?p=145.
But did trevino intend this post seriously, but not that one? In either event, his faith-based moral stand against the state taking lives really comes through loud and clear, doesn't it? |
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