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You need to get a grip. There is sadness that a human being has been killed. Stop dancing on his grave to furtehr your own beliefs. |
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We don't like murderers of babys like tiller,and we don't like killers of baby killers like tiller,abortion language doesn't have to be moderated, none of us has to shut our mouths, cause we know how to behave. Get a grip frank. |
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Operation Rescue just talked to the press and said:
"George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name, murder."
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You may not like what George Tiller did, but it was LEGAL. And this anti-abortion guy shot him in church.
From an article:
"An attorney for Tiller, Dan Monnat, says the doctor was shot Sunday as he served as an usher during morning services at Reformation Lutheran Church. Monnat said Tiller's wife, Jeanne, was in the choir at the time of the shooting."
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As emotions go up, intelligence goes down.
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Maybe Frank if you would settle down you could write a coherent response with proper spelling. I am NOT going to make statements about motivations without a little more information.I am not going to rush to judgment until the shooter,if caught, is at least given the benefit of a competent defense and a fair trial---if that's okay with you. I am not sure what you think your deliberately provocative statement "Today the murders stand with YOU(sic)" but you should be aware it comes across as a threat and a libel to many.Perhaps you should shut your mouth instead of just creating more intolerance and wait for a least an arrest and an investigation.You really have some nerve lecturing us about moderation. |
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Frank, you couldn't be more wrong. Considering what Tiller did to helpless babies, I can't help but find his death to be poetically ironic. Those who live by the sword die by the sword. The minute he started killing babies, Tiller made his own right to life forfeit. Justice and pragmatism both called for a stop to his murderous spree by whatever means necessary, so long as they did not harm an innocent person. Tiller's killer did not. Good for him.
Part of what makes the righteous, good, and the wicked, evil, is their hatred of one another. A good person hates that which is unfair, that which is evil, and eagerly yearns for its destruction, willing to see to its extermination given the opportunity. A good person makes every effort to kill evil instantly, and does not mourn its passing.
Tiller's killer should not be imprisoned and villified, but rather praised and extolled. Give him a parade, not a prison sentence. No justice? No peace. And there's 1.2 million babies every year for whom justice is not served. |
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Frank, you couldn't be more wrong. Considering what Tiller did to helpless babies, I can't help but find his death to be poetically ironic. Those who live by the sword die by the sword. The minute he started killing babies, Tiller made his own right to life forfeit. Justice and pragmatism both called for a stop to his murderous spree by whatever means necessary, so long as they did not harm an innocent person. Tiller's killer did not. Good for him.
Part of what makes the righteous, good, and the wicked, evil, is their hatred of one another. A good person hates that which is unfair, that which is evil, and eagerly yearns for its destruction, willing to see to its extermination given the opportunity. A good person makes every effort to kill evil instantly, and does not mourn its passing.
Tiller's killer should not be imprisoned and villified, but rather praised and extolled. Give him a parade, not a prison sentence. No justice? No peace. And there's 1.2 million babies every year for whom justice is not served. |
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I told you to take a break, sheesh.
Talk about judging before all the facts are in. How'd you know it was a 'con' who shot the abortionist?
I thought you were all about innocent til proven guilty? Well, until the jury's in on the conservative's place in the abortionist's murder, YOU'RE just being silly with your harangues.
Tiller's death is no more tragic than any other death by murder. That includes murders of young ones, Frank. What a corner you lefties have yourself in right now. "OUR kind of murder=perfectly respectable. YOUR kind of murder= reprehensible."
I'll stand with the common sense crowd. ALL murder is evil.
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obviously experienced a "Late Term abortion" first hand by a person who wanted to stop him from murdering anymore babies. What goes around comes around...sometimes. |
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We don't know why tiller was killed ,abortion may have had nothing to do with it. What ever the reason now is not the time to fight about it or to disrepct the tillers . we have a justice system and i expect justice will be done . |
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"""You may not like what George Tiller did, but it was LEGAL."""
So was slavery and murdering Jews, Will. I know that is the only standard you lefties have(the whimsical nature of the law).
Murder for me, but not for thee. I don't know how you people can live with yourselves sometimes! |
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And those early protests against the Beatles (after the bigger than Jesus remark) in America were responsible for Mark Chapman killing John Lennon. Come off it!
Some psycho murders an abortionist and it's the fault of the anti-abortion movement? Exactly how many baby killers have been murdered since 1973? Two?
Good thing they didn't strike down the penalty in Kansas, as this vigilante shooter needs to fry. |
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You said: Seems dottie somebody just killed a man because of his beliefs;
So, Frank it's all right for Tiller to have killed babies because he "BELIEVED"
HE HAD THE RIGHT TO MURDER THE INNOCENT UNBORN??? |
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How do you know it wasn't a latina?
I know of someone who probably thinks a latina is a better shot than a white man.
And Frank. Don't demand that anyone condenm this act.
You are far from being the conservatives moral compass.
God knows what I and other conservatives think of this.
He doesn't need your help. |
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Actually it was Salinger who was responsible for Lennon's murder.
Right Frank? |
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conservative movement became mixed up and intertwined with the social cons in the 1970's to expand the "Big Tent" and add some votes.
The social cons are part of the downfall of the GOP. They are the ones who made "Intolerant" the GOP's middle name. Real conservatives need to cut them off now. Let them form their own party. Kick them to the curb.
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"Some psycho murders an abortionist and it's the fault of the anti-abortion movement? Exactly how many baby killers have been murdered since 1973? Two? "
From Wiki-
March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of the year before.
June 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside of another facility in Pensacola.
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who prior to his arrest was distributing pamphlets from Human Life International,[5] was arrested and confessed to the killings.
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed.
October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed as he was entering his church in Wichita, KS
Me- Well, that makes seven... All of whom were inflamed by people calling abortion providers Murderers and baby killers. |
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As Eliza Doolittle would say.
We are sorry; but crocodile tears are not in order. Tiller's murderer hopefully won't escape justice.
When considered Eichmann was tried and convicted of mass murders for his part in the holocaust; Tiller got away from answering for his crimes. He benefited from Roe V. Wade as much as the mothers who had their offspring slaughtered. There is no real justice in this world.
There are always victims of injustice.
Tiller was a victim, but he got justice. Nobody can dispute that. In a just world, a thousand bounty hunters would've been hunting for him and wanted posters would be everywhere:
"Wanted for murder of Innocent Infants seconds before their birth."
Now, with his demise, many innocents won't be murdered next week.
Thank You, Almighty Father!
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i would not let my fanny anywhere near you and the gay gang . the guy that shot tiller will have to answer for that . tiller is answering for his life right now I hope his answer is good enough. Thats between him and God and no one else has a say in it. |
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What I am horrified about is that the mix here ranges from cheering Dr. Tiller's death, to saying it was somehow justified because he killed 'babies".
The thing is that late term abortions are never preformed without damned good medical reason. The child was going to die, and perhaps take the mother with it... No woman goes through 7 months of pregnancy and then NOT has the baby on a lark. If it goes that far, it was wanted, and is a tragedy for that family. |
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A little touchy, huh?
Can't take the heat can you?
You guys sooner than later always show your true colors. Busting out of the gate assuming conservatives performed and would celebrate this terrible deed.
Rush To Judgement Frank....You gotta new handle...
Hey if someone steals my car I'll just pull a Frank and blame the nearest minority. |
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and we can get more of the details. In the meantime, "Frank" I must ask you WHY you have always thought it was perfectly legit for Tiller to MURDER babies but now when someone had done him in, you are so upset you can't write a cognizant sentence? |
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I stand corrected...it was seven and not two in 36 YEARS. Still, hardly a masacre. The Wahabi imams are responsible for inflaming more murders in ONE year than that!
Notice I said the shooter should fry, like the lawless soul that he or she is. You're not going to blame this on us. |
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First of all, I wish you wouldn't steal your name from a perfectly good Pink Floyd song. Re the Wiki stuff you posted:
"From Wiki-
March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of the year before.
June 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside of another facility in Pensacola.
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who prior to his arrest was distributing pamphlets from Human Life International,[5] was arrested and confessed to the killings.
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed.
October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed as he was entering his church in Wichita, KS
Me- Well, that makes seven... All of whom were inflamed by people calling abortion providers Murderers and baby killers."
While I don't condone the above listed crimes, you pro-abortion types are still about 48 million ahead on confirmed kills, just in the US.
Dr. Tiller will now stand before God, just as we all will, and be judged. I can't speak for the Creator, but I can't imagine that the late doctor is going to have a very good day in court, this time. |
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You know NOTHING about the person who killed Tiller. It could just as well have been a liberal atheist who nonetheless thought Tiller's practice abhorrent. Ever think of that, genius?
The rest of us will wait till the facts come out. I suggest you STFU and do the same.
While we all hope the perp is caught, tried, convicted and sentenced according to this nation's laws regarding murder, I'm not shedding any tears over Tiller himself. I'm honestly glad the monster is dead. |
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pretty standard stuff for toilet stall peeping mall cop like you . I guess it is start fantasizing about women instead of axehole. good for you ! |
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you have shown anyone who reads Th that you are nothing more than a low life, sucm-sucking Cretin. To suggest such a thing about a man's wife has gone too far. I have flagged you and asked others I know around town to do the same thing. You a sore loser, a bad sport and an all- around piece of trash. |
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Most probably we will learn why at some future point. This falls under the law of relativity in terms of killing a human. Tiller could kill a woman's unborn baby 1 week or less prior to its birth and be praised as supporting that woman's right to choose. That same woman could kill that same child 1 week or less after it is born and go to jail as guilty of murder. The 2 acts could be separated by less than 2 weeks. Tiller invests the tools of abortion and the courts anoint him; the Mother, her new title since the live birth, is incarcerated by the same court. If those two dead babies were laid out on a table, side by side, there is doubt (except for the method of death)that we could discern which died at the hand of whom. There is something terribly wrong with that mental picture or even the notion of the whole procedure. |
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Frank You know NOTHING about the person who killed Tiller. It could just as well have been a liberal atheist who nonetheless thought Tiller's practice abhorrent. Ever think of that, genius?
The rest of us will wait till the facts come out. I suggest you STFU and do the same.
While we all hope the perp is caught, tried, convicted and sentenced according to this nation's laws regarding murder, I'm not shedding any tears over Tiller himself. I'm honestly glad the monster is dead.
Me - well, we know now that he's a 51 year old white male who was captured 170 miles from teh scene of the shooting. That tells me the cops knew who they were looking for...
But seriously, the fact that you guys are all treating Tiller, a dedicated medical professional, like he was morally equivlent to the thug who shot him is kind of scary...
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The wrongful arrest and persecution of Richard Jewell(Atlanta Olympics);the toss-out of the charges against Senator Stevens and the original belief that Arabs blew up the OK City Courthouse are only a few.and I mean a very few examples of where the assumption of early guilt and motivation by the public and media was completely wrong in a high profile case.A Kansas jury will presumably and hopefully bring a case to a just verdict whether the motive was political,financial, jealousy or just plain meanness or the jury acquits for lack of evidence or accepts a suitable defense.Because the President has unwisely injected " empathetic life experience" as a new judicial qualification we can expect his defense lawyers to argue for the judge they feel most empathetic to the defendant to preside at trial and possible sentencing.I truly regret this man was gunned down for whatever reason I don't care. I pray the issue gets justice.But under the current regime are we even allowed to believe such a universal concept is possible? Some folks are going to rue the mischievous day they brought "relativism" into the system and it may be sooner than later. |
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You may be right. You may be wrong.
And it's not rubbed in my face no matter what.
I haven't gone out on the limb and made a prenouncement without the facts.
You libs always talk about fairness and civil rights.
I'm sure that a Christian conservative suspect would get one helluva' fair trial if you were on the jury.
Wouldn't they Frank?
Hey at least admit that your blind hate and rage would have you voting guilty before the opening arguments.
We all know it.
Hypocrite. |
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Most courts would probably consider a woman who killed her newborn a week after birth to be mentally ill.... usually suffering from post-partum depression.
As for fetuses (NOT BABIES) terminated before birth, the only people who would get something like that done would be in cases where continuing the pregnancy threatened the life of the mother. Do you really think that there is a case where a woman went to a doctor in the Ninth month of pregnancy and aborted it for fun? Heck, no. |
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Why not. It's a good place for terrorists and people who encourage them. |
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There was something totally incongruous and ironic about the place of Dr. Mengala Tiller's murder - in 'Church'.
The Church's web site banner:
"Welcome to Reformation Lutheran Church! We are a community of believers who gather to worship, learn, and share fellowship so that we can serve others and live out our faith in daily life."
What an odd (Christian?) belief system the congregation much have to support and 'share fellowship' with such a member. Perhaps the clergy took the view that his money's as good as anyone's.
And for 'Dr.' Teller - his belief system was perhaps even weirder and more bizarre. Not only did his hippocratic oath mean nothing (having something to do with preserving life) but the biblical teachings of 'thou shalt not kill' worried him little as well.
His murderer perhaps wanted to make this point this very point - that using the trappings of Christianity to sanitize his repulsive work was blasphemous and simply too much to bear. |
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The AP report says nothing about the race of the shooter. How do you know he is white? |
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This ought to be made a national holiday. Call it "The Unborn Day." |
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For you to come in here and throw around accusations is beyond the pale.
Tell me how people like you and MSNBC would cover Bush's assasination? There will be far more sincerity from us to Tiller than the scum left toward Bush. After all, Bush lied... people died.
Tiller is gone, God can judge him now. His killer will face justice and the law. |
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"His murderer perhaps wanted to make this point this very point - that using the trappings of Christianity to sanitize his repulsive work was blasphemous and simply too much to bear."
yeah? and maybe there are people who are sick to death at the way you Christianist clowns have hijacked the faith. abortion is not "murder," notwithstanding your drama-queen nonsense, but what happened to Dr. Tiller is most definitely murder. you guys are a bunch of worthless punks, as helpless as children when it comes to making moral distinctions. |
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what race Tiller's killer is? He obviously had enough of the slaughter of thousands of babies at Tiller's hands. Tit for tat? An eye for an eye, and all that? He who liveth by the sword, indeed!
I don't, as a rule, condone murder - beginning with all those murders Tiller committed, but in this case I feel he got what was coming to him; I just feel it could have happened years earlier so that more innocent lives would have been saved from his murdering hands. |
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1. They have the guy in custody already.
and before that...
2. Police have a suspect description. The suspect is described as a white male in his 50's or 60's with grey hair that is balding in the middle. He is about 6'1" and about 220 pounds and was wearing a white shirt and dark pants.
That's how we know his race.
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what race Tiller's killer is? He obviously had enough of the slaughter of thousands of babies at Tiller's hands. Tit for tat? An eye for an eye, and all that? He who liveth by the sword, indeed!
I don't, as a rule, condone murder - beginning with all those murders Tiller committed, but in this case I feel he got what was coming to him; I just feel it could have happened years earlier so that more innocent lives would have been saved from his murdering hands. |
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"You may not like what George Tiller did, but it was LEGAL. And this anti-abortion guy shot him in church."
Yes, it was legal - the same way Roger Taney legalized slavery in the Dred Scott case. Lincoln made Douglas look just as pathetic when he took the same view.
Hitler's final solution was 'legal'. The height of asininity is achieved when someone defends the morality of a law by proclaiming it 'legal'. |
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pretty weak to be comparing a brutal reality to a fevered imagining. but let me tell you--we had no problems with Bush the man. Maybe a little low character, maybe not big enough for the job, but definitely an okay guy. and in any event, when someone kills a President, or any elected leader, citizens react with alarm and outrage. that goes without saying. the only ones who do not subscribe to that precept of the republican faith are you radical buffoons. |
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Deputy Chief Tom Stolz w/ Wichita Police Dept. says Dr. Tiller died of a single gunshot wound. A 51-year-old suspect is in custody in Johnson County. Police say the suspect was arrested without incident after a traffic stop.
Stolz says formal charges are expected Monday. Suspect faces one count of murder, two counts of aggravated assault. Detective says suspect threatened two others who tried to keep him from leaving the area.
The suspect, whose name will not be released until formally charged, is expected back in Wichita Sunday.
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that's enough of this thread. you guys are idiots. you think your opposition to abortion sanctifies you in some way, aligns you to innocence, but instead, it merely reveals what morally underdeveloped fools you are. |
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"...the only people who would get something like that done would be in cases where continuing the pregnancy threatened the life of the mother."
This is a very misleading and inaccurate statement. I am a master's prepared OB/GYN nurse practitioner and can say without a doubt there is almost no situation where a late term ABORTION is necessary to save the mother. With the advances in neonatal technology and early prenatal diagnosis, this excuse is just that...an excuse. Babies have survived when delivered as early as 25 weeks gestation (a pregnancy is 40 weeks), so if the mother's physical health were really the issue an early LIVE delivery of the baby could be performed. It is not necessary to kill the baby! In the case of genetic defects, chromosome tests on the "fetus" can be done as early as 10-12 weeks of gestation via chorionic villus sampling. Structural defects of the "fetus" that are incompatible with life can also be seen on early ultrasound. |
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Counting up and then claiming abortionists were allegedly gunned down because of the pro-life movement reminds me of the people that blamed the bombings and shootings of the Weather Underground or the Panthers on the largely peaceful anti-war movement.It was a canard to smear opponents then and it is the same smear tactic now.If anything the men and women in the pro-life movement I've met and represented are MORE peaceful than the folks I've met and even represented in the anti-war movement(s). I've often said stop the war(we have so many,I've lost count) and I always say stop killing children.Is everybody now unhappy with that? Good....now what murder am I responsible for...I forgot. |
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I believe the following "quote" of the news item above to be 100% truth:
"The National Right To Life Committee issued a statement condemning the attack.
"National Right to Life Committee UNEQUIVOCALLY CONDEMNS any such acts of violence regardless of motivation. The pro-life movement works to protect the right to life and increase respect for human life. The unlawful use of violence is directly contrary to that goal."
I also believe that those who condemn the murder of abortion who are rejoicing in this man's death are the lowest of hypocrites. If this is what your church teaches you, than God cannot fit in such a tiny hellhole.
Mary
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If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23
Sorry, guys, even the Bible doesn't say Abortion is murder. |
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So you live in some fantasy world where women go through nine-months of pregnancy only to maliciously kill their child.... for what reason, exactly?
Sorry, I'll trust the judgement of medical professionals over religous zealots any day. |
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"yeah? and maybe there are people who are sick to death at the way you Christianist clowns have hijacked the faith. abortion is not "murder," notwithstanding your drama-queen nonsense, but what happened to Dr. Tiller is most definitely murder. you guys are a bunch of worthless punks, as helpless as children when it comes to making moral distinctions."
Really got you going there, eh. You know when you've hit a lib tender, indefensible weak spot when they revert to the vitriolic name calling.
"Hijacked the Faith"? No, that is exactly what you and the perverts have been doing for some time.
Right now the Anglicans are splitting over the issue of homo clergy taking over the leadership.
I'm sure this denomination didn't advertise the fact that Tiller was a late term abortionist. It's not only the Catholics who are having trouble justifying tolerance for those who support the practice and even advance it through politics, and still maintain they are Catholics.
Your frenzied assertions are noted - their truth is entirely another matter. |
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while you may not like the comparison, how many on the left have called Bush a murderer? I think Tiller is a murderer. I think the comparison is good. The difference is that many would celebrate the death of Bush, while most on the right do not celebrate the death of anyone or anything. Do not assume Conservatives celebrate this murder... we don't. |
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I didn't read all of the posts, so if someone has already mentioned that the shooter performed a late term abortion on Tiller, I agree.
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yeah, we are all just a bunch of Branch Davidians... and you are a happy guy.. pfft.
You clearly don't understand Old Testiment vs. New Testiment... but then why should you? But hey, thanks for teaching me about the Bible... Kind of like Larry Flint teaching virtue. |
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"it merely reveals what morally underdeveloped fools you are."
Sort of like you and Frank. |
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I said Tiller experienced a late term abortion. Perhaps he had it coming, but at any rate he won't be killing anymore babies will he? |
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axe in his rump (Korihor)
yeah, we are all just a bunch of Branch Davidians... and you are a happy guy.. pfft.
You clearly don't understand Old Testiment vs. New Testiment... but then why should you? But hey, thanks for teaching me about the Bible... Kind of like Larry Flint teaching virtue.
Me- You know, I'm kind of liking the whole Korihor thing... he's the only likable character in teh Book of Mormon.
I understand the difference just fine. One is a book of Bronze Age superstitions, the other is a book of slightly more refined Iron Age superstitions. Neither should be taken seriously.
But I do know the difference between Mormons and Branch Davidians... Original and Extra-Krispy!
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Do not assume Conservatives celebrate this murder... we don't.
Me- Have you read some of the comments here? Certainly sounds like you guys are all giving each other high-fives... |
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Weiner boy, for you to celebrate this is like hating the game Halo, and being happy everytime a kid kills after playing the game. how stupid are you? You don't care about life, you only care about politacal point keeping... and this scores NO points. |
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I'm not really feeling too bad for this guy. The same way I don't condone gang killings, but don't feel too bad when one criminal kills another. |
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if murder of this reprehensible human being is a horrible sin, but the murder of viable human babies in ok, whether the children are in or out of the womb, they have their own heart, brain and bodies, by the 3rd trimester most are sustainable human beings, NOT FETUSES. To say any different is being dis-ingenuous in your retohric on abortion.
I do not condone any kind of murder, but I will cry no tears for the killer of the unborn, I am happy that someone expedited the meeting between the murderer and his Lord and hopefully a jury of his victims.
So Frank and his ilk does not have to accuse me, I am a right wing conservative christian of the furthest right wing. I could not enjoy killing any human, especially an innocent little child. |
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why he was killed? Or is everyone just assuming? |
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I jumped the gun, no pun intended. After I posted my comment I started reading from the top down and read your post. People had to know this was coming, somebody was going to take care of Tiller one way or another.
I can see Frank's in a snit as usual. |
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You compare the Bible to superstition, yet you use it as if it means something, quoting things you don't understand. Keep on saying you really understand, nah. pfft.
No one is high-fiving... except Frank... and I wasn't talking to you, big mouth. |
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Didn't you post these words at 5:08 EST.
"that is all." |
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Tiller did have it coming and I will cry no tears for him - or his famly for that matter; after all, they knew what he was doing and didn't seem to have a problem with it OR spending all that money he made from killing all those babies. |
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poor thing, he's probably upset that he'll have to seek out another doctor to help with the extermination of the unborn. |
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"I didn't read all of the posts, so if someone has already mentioned that the shooter performed a late term abortion on Tiller, I agree."
From the Obamanation's point of view, it could be argued so. Didn't he say, even if it can live, kill it anyway?
I am struck by the similarity of the abortion issue with the slavery issue. John Brown sparked a civil war by taking the issue of slavery into his own hands.
The abortionists are fanatical about the Soso nomination. They fear she would not support the SCOTUS abortion dictate - that's all that gives the abortion genocide going on this nation it's legality considering the eroding support it has received over recent years. A blanket abortion permit could not get past the voters in any state in this nation.
With the scientific and technical advances, even the youngsters can see that the fetus takes on definite human form and characteristics at a very early stage.
Race politics and class envy is bad enough but the lib fascist Obamanation's real Achille's heel is the abortion issue. |
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womb is not murder and they are justified in doing so by you liberal cretins, but when an adult kills another adult it is not justified??? You or anoyone else with the ignorant mindset are the MONSTERS. |
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confused with his more manly half brother Boy George is losin' his mind. Feigning righteous indignation over the murder of a murderer. Yet good ole' "boy" franky has never uttered so much as peep, not even "righteous indignation" at the wholesale slaughter of 60,000,000 babies. Not one little peep. So, ya' got NO right, franky "boy", to be upset, angry, or any other emotion ya' can come up with, cause' ya' got blood all over ya', "boy". Go take that "righteous indignation" somewhere where it might carry some weight, cause it damn sure ain't around here! Ya' got NO standin', "boy" your too damn bloody. We just don't believe ya', we ain't buyin' it, that your all that upset. |
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Franky: If anything this is going to benefit Obama like nobody's business. All he has to do is drag the hateful wingnuts into the spotlight and they will drag their party down with them.
And there you have it... a wish from Weiner boy that this death will somehow benefit his political views. He cares NOTHING for life in or out of the womb. |
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...his mother was pro-life. |
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You are a real treasure. I'm sure everyone at the HuffPo are high-fiving you now! Way to go! |
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Frank writes: "If anything this is going to benefit Obama like nobody's business."
Possibly the most disgusting statement I have read in some time. But sadly, in light of the fact that Obama has already issued a statement expressing his "shock and outrage" it's pretty obvious he's going to play politics with this...just in time to divert attention from the GM bankruptcy. How convenient.
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...about a church that "opposes abortion when a fetus is developed enough to live outside a uterus with the aid of reasonable and necessary technology"* would have a later term abortion provider as a church usher. Odd.
* official position of the Evangelical Lutheran Church Of America |
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axe in his rump (Korihor)
You compare the Bible to superstition, yet you use it as if it means something, quoting things you don't understand. Keep on saying you really understand, nah. pfft.
No one is high-fiving... except Frank... and I wasn't talking to you, big mouth.
Me- Oh, it means NOTHING... except when fanatics use it to justify their own evils, which everyone from Hitler to Joseph Smith to this jerkwad today has done.
Except what the bible clearly says is that the Ancient Hebrews, and persumably the Invisible Sky Pixie, didn't consider fetuses to be people. Probably didn't even consider infants to be people, because the infant mortality rate was so high.
Hopefully, President Obama will use the Patriot Act and other tools to finally put an end to these home-grown terrorists.
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frank you are an idiot.
and the calif cops have a saying, "live freaky die freaky" |
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Hey Will, it was also legal in Nazi Germany to kill the subhumans. idiot |
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you have obviously had too much to drink or sniff or something.
We already know you are ignorant, but now you are incoherent too. Try listening to some Doobie Brothers and get some rest. |
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"You rape 'em, we scrape 'em"
"Your Womb is it's Tomb"
"No Fetus can Beat Us." |
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Christians, "good Christians" are "far right". Just have ta' be. After all, doesn't Barbara Streisand say so? Resident imbeciles, like "boy" franky confirm daily that decent people cannot live with these adherents. There must be total and complete separation from them. The life issue is but one of many, that precludes any compromise with them. Where do you compromise death for life? Where do you compromise liberty and freedom for Statism? Where do you compromise the Founding Principles for the left's version? Where do you compromise the sanctity of marriage for "gay" marriage? Where do you compromise the safety and security of the country for reaching out to and acquiescing to Islam? Where do you compromise the morality of your children for their permissive culture? On and on it can go, where is the compromise in any of it? There is NONE. Total, and complete separation from them is the only viable option. |
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You: Except what the Bible clearly says is that the Ancient Hebrews, and persumably the Invisible Sky Pixie, didn't consider fetuses to be people.
Me: Aren't you using the Bible to support your point? Are you retarded? Ya know, typing "NOTHING" really loud, it doesn't drown out those little voices giving you doubt. Keep pounding those little fists on the picnic table.
Thanks for playing, but you lose... again. |
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was wrong..........
That being said..........in God's eyes, (notice I didn't say the law's eyes), Tiller KILLED THOUSANDS. And all in the worship of,.... guess what?...............MONEY!!
Puts him up there with Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and Saddam Hussein.
Murder IS wrong.........but we WON'T miss the baby killer. |
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"Hopefully, President Obama will use the Patriot Act and other tools to finally put an end to these home-grown terrorists."
Well, Kansas does have the death penalty. Although they haven't used it snce 1976.
They could start with a rapid trial and execution and set an example.
Now there's an interesting dichotomy...hand's up all those who believe this guy should receive the death penalty for this murder.
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comforting. Yep. Late Term Baby Scraper bites the bullet--Literally. All those human hearts flushed...All those youthful brains snuffed. All that magical humanity tossed...
Yep, I'm tearing up over his lead infested carcass...Naw...Just a speck of dust.
Like the jury for the guy in Oklahoma City who shot a hold-up punk once in the head and 5-in the stomach last week and they've charged with 1st Degree Murder...I'm AVAILABLE for his or Tiller's juries. Awww...Justice. |
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Me: Aren't you using the Bible to support your point? Are you retarded? Ya know, typing "NOTHING" really loud, it doesn't drown out those little voices giving you doubt. Keep pounding those little fists on the picnic table.
Thanks for playing, but you lose... again.
Me- There are no little voices. I think that if there is a God, he isn't the petty, hateful, baby-murdering monster of the Old Testement or the Book of Mormon. To paraphrase Jean-Luc Picard, I refuse to believe the universe is so poorly designed.
I merely point it out to prove that 1) Most Christians are ignorant of what is actually IN the Bible (AKA "The Big Book of Judean Fairy Tales") and 2) You can use the Bible to justify nearly any position, no matter how noxious.
I think there is an argument that can be made against abortion, that the fetus feels pain, and therefore it is cruel. However, that is a difficult position to support quoting scripture. |
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"Now there's an interesting dichotomy...hand's up all those who believe this guy should receive the death penalty for this murder."
Me- I'm all for it. I have no problem with the DP if you can prove the guy did the crime.
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Inconsolable Is What I Is...Beyond..
comforting. Yep. Late Term Baby Scraper bites the bullet--Literally. All those human hearts flushed...All those youthful brains snuffed. All that magical humanity tossed...
Me- What "magic". The only babies who are terminated in late term abortions are ones that are so severely disabled they have no chance for a normal life. No woman carries a child for nine months and then kills it.
When you Republicans actually start supporting special education programs and child care programs and universal health care and a living wage, then I might take your crocadile tears for the unborn seriously...
Otherwise, I just see it for what it is, an attempt to rile up Funditards and distract them from the fact you are dismantling their middle class lifestyle.
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A man who enraged tens of millions of people enraged one who was pushed right over the edge and killed him. Tiller's behavior was aborting babies by the thousands who were so far along in development that they could have survived outside of the womb, which is reprehensible even to many people who wish to preserve abortion in the first two trimesters. When I read posts on this thread, I see people who are happy that he's gone and others who are delighted that they now have another stick to beat conservatives with.
I am sorry for the death of Dr. Tiller. No man deserves to be assassinated. However, his deeds are what caused his death. He was engaged in behavior that was so morally reprehensible that it was a provocation to one irrational and violent mind. If Dr. Tiller were not killing thousands of children, children who were nearly full term, he would be alive today. As one poster already said, "Live freaky, die freaky." |
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In several respects.
First and foremost, human life is precious and worthy of protection from the moment of conception to the drawing of the last breath.
This was a heinous, morally reprehensible act that should not be condoned or applauded or marginalized by anyone.
Second, as we have already seen, the pro-choicers have already latched on and want to make it into a blanket statement that anyone who opposes abortion is a fanatical killer.
A point of clarification,
An abortion is the intentional ending of a human life. It is not extreme to call it murder.
It is wrong to murder in any and all circumstances. All killing is not murder.
This is a horrific crime.
But it does not excuse or mitigate in any way horrendous holocaust that is abortion. Over 50, million just in the United States alone. Just one of you liberals explain to me the benefit of snuffing out 50 million human lives. |
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I AM a medical professional, with two licenses, two specialty certifications and a master's degree to prove it. I'm a nurse practitioner with 16 years experience in the field of women's health. Now you think you are medical expert as well as a Bible scholar. Please.
Women kill their pre-born babies for a variety of reasons, mostly to do with inconvenience, but almost never to save their own lives. My point was that a late term abortion is easily avoidable due to modern medical technology and diagnostic procedures. But, I wouldn't expect you to understand science, you're flying by the seat of your pants and EMOTION. Better hope that the trial judge for Scott Roeder is not "emphatic"--he or she might let him off.
And Frank, if this shooter claims to be a Christian, he is a false professor just like the butcher he killed. |
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millions, it was "business", big business. It was all about makin' money, lottsa' money, "baby". No never mind that cha' had ta' kill the innocent, just have a judge somewhere declare that hey, it's not human life, well hell, it's just a big blob of goo, yeah, thats the ticket, lets call it a "fetus" (Greek, for baby). Then we can make a whole lotta' money off killin' a "fetus". And then we'll tie it to a "women right to chose", yeah that sounds damn, good. And then we'll call anyone who disagrees with us as "intolerant, homophobic, racist, bigoted, and anythin' else we can think of. Cause' there's lotsa money to be made here, and Dr. Death made a whole helluva' lotta' of it, too. And the abortion party is gonna' miss his contributions, to the party that stands for death, and is animated by death. What Church condones "death", well by golly it seems that the Reformed Lutheren Church of Wichita, Kansas does. Martin Luther, I'm quite sure, did not, though. But hey, that's "progressive", right! And then Nancy Keegan can say that Dr, Death's "commitment" was exemplary. Well that is one way to put it, isn't it. Can we be free to live apart from these people, who put such value on death. If they knew what awaited them they would sing a different tune, a much different tune! |
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this man has killed thousands of little babies. just because some woman was too lazy or immoral to take precautions. if a woman doesn't want a baby she should either keep her legs closed or see that her male counterpart uses protection. i don't agree with his killing but i don't hear an outcry over the thousands of babies he's murdered either. |
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I LIVE to be taken seriously by you, Moral Midget. Too, too, toooooooooo funny, Dude.
Now, again, back to our Dodgers cleaning the Cubbies like Fudgey cleans you. Know what'a'mean, Jellybean? :-) |
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That would be empathetic. Silly typos. |
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It may have escaped your attention that, whether you choose to call it murder or a termination procedure, abortion is LEGAL. While shooting to death a living adult physician in church is ILLEGAL. Even if you think that the murder of the doctor was a great idea and that he had it coming. |
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of the whole incident is..............
Tiller was killed while in CHURCH no less.......
Tiller was not only a serial killer of infants....
He was a TOTAL HYPOCRITE also........
What kind of "church" would welcome, with open arms, a monster such as he into their congregation?????
Just as I would have NEVER stayed with a church any amount of time, much less 20+ years, where Rev Jeremiah Wright spewed his anti-American venom (listening ODumbo??)......
I would have NEVER sat in the same congregation with Tiller the Monster...... |
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CTWA, Eugene, you wrote: "What the Bible says about Abortion...
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23
Sorry, guys, even the Bible doesn't say Abortion is murder."
CTWA Eugene, you are twisitng the meaning of Exodus 21:22-23. The term "depart from her" in that verse is an English translation of the original Hebrew word "yatsa" that denotes a live (though perhaps untimely) birth. This contrasts with the Hebrew word "shakol" that denotes a miscarriage or abortion as used in Hosea 9:14. The word "mischief" in the Exodus verse you quote is translated from "acown" which means hurt.
The idea of the verse therefore is if no hurt occured to the mother or to the child (or children), the punishment was to be determined by the husband and the judge as in a civil case today. If, however, hurt did occur to the mother or to the child (or children), punishment was to be levied by the state up to and including life for life (also read versus 24 & 25 for a better context). The life of the child counts as a life whether born or not. Injuries causing the death of the child could be sustained prior to the child being expulsed alive from the womb. This verse shows the equality of value of lives born or unborn.
My references are the KJV Bible, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/786-does-exodus-2 1-sanction-abortion, and
http://www.errantskeptics.org/Exodus2122.htm
There are further scriptures that validate the personhood of those unborn.
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I stand with you. I have spent hundreds of hours on townhall and, for my own amusement, take notes. Townhall posters regularly advocate the murder of Democrats, liberals, and homosexuals. They give explicit instructions. They brag about how many guns they have and warn that they are "ready for" any government agent who might be so unwise as to enforce a law they find inconvenient.
Meanwhile Sean Hannity allowed on his website a poll to survey whether conservative viewers would prefer to express their discontent by means of secession, a military coup, or armed rebellion. Glenn Beck has devoted so many programs to urging armed rebellion that the comatose MSM finally took note of it. The man who shot up a Tennesse church last year admitted that he was inspired by Bernard Goldberg's book about the danger of liberals; he said the few he had killed were "symbolic" and that he really wished he could kill all 100 "dangerous liberals" named by Goldberg.
Already on the several TH threads having to do with the murder of Dr Tiller we are seeing defense of the murderer and the view that Tiller "had it coming"---eg that murder is justified if you believe it's in a good cause (akin to "armed rebellion against an elected government is justified if you call it patriotism"). Expect more murders at the hands of the hard-core Right. They're into it.
Does Kansas have the death penalty? If it does and Tiller's killer is executed, you can bet the farm that we will see Tillman elevated as a holy martyr. |
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What I am not hearing from all of you so-called pro-lifers is the condemnation of a murder. So its okay to gun down people in church, and its okay to maintain a healthcare system that leaves millions of children with no healthcare, but if you vacuum out that loose bundle of cells with less biological complexity than a field-mouse out of a woman's uterus... now THAT is wrong. You people have such backwards priorities. Tell me, where in the bible does it say "you MUST save loose bundles of cells in a woman's uterus, but its okay of you kill people in church and ignore sick children". It sounds like your religious leaders did a really SUPER job of interpreting the bible |
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You say that "abortion is legal" but "killing an adult physician while in church is illegal"........
True enough.........IF ALL YOU BELIEVE IN IS "MAN'S LAW".........
Honey.....today when Tiller drew his last breath he was no longer "covered" under man's law.....
He today, along with you and all the rest of us when we pass, will have to answer to GOD'S LAW.........
I don't believe Brother Tiller is "sittin very pretty" along about now, do you???? |
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"It may have escaped your attention that, whether you choose to call it murder or a termination procedure, abortion is LEGAL. While shooting to death a living adult physician in church is ILLEGAL." I believe that legal is generally good and illegal is generally bad. Killing Dr. Tiller was illegal, it was wrong, and it was a terrible thing to do. Dr. Tiller's killing of VIABLE near to birth fetuses may have been legal, but it was also horribly wrong. Most Americans would agree with what I just stated. It is those legal killings by the thousands that so enraged one person out of the 150 million or so Americans who were outraged by Dr. Tiller's behavior that pushed the nutter over the edge. Tiller's murder was a terrible shame, but his killing was a greater shame. How many thousands will live because there are virtually no doctors willing to engage in late term abortion in his place? That's the only good that comes from this whole tragic affair. |
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"Does Kansas have the death penalty? If it does and Tiller's killer is executed, you can bet the farm that we will see Tillman elevated as a holy martyr." Perhaps, lilly, but I hope not. Murderers make terrible martyrs. We do already have a martyr for the left-- the loving, caring, feminist killer of viable fetuses, Saint Tiller. And you're welcome to him. |
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So it came a little later whats the dif. |
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I suggest you read the postings a bit more carefully.
I for one am glad the monster is dead. That does not equate to thinking murder is OK in this instance, even in the case of such an evil man, nor that his killer should go free. Nor does it equate to wishing him an eternity in Hell-though one is sorely tempted. We are grateful that at least SOME babies won't have to be killed before they even have a shot at life. But I for one won't presume his current spiritual residence-that is not a judgment any of us can make.
Read this post twice before you post again on how little is said about the evil of this man's murder. |
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"I have spent hundreds of hours on townhall and, for my own amusement, take notes."
Oh boy, do you need to get a life! Do you have little files on all of us posters? Filed alphabetically or color coded? Do you have separate files for molly, rachel, raelei kimberly, lola, scarlett etc or do you just file all that craziness together?
You don't know anything about some missing FBI files do you...oh, sorry that was some other weird woman. |
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Lilly writes: Does Kansas have the death penalty?
You should take more notes...
Andrea writes: Sunday, May, 31, 2009 5:37 PM
Good thing they didn't strike down the penalty in Kansas, as this vigilante shooter needs to fry.
Lerxst writes: Sunday, May, 31, 2009 8:20 PM
Well, Kansas does have the death penalty. Although they haven't used it snce 1976.
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Right winger and Left winger alike, every last one of you brings so much joy to me. While I refuse to label myself the tag of either of your parties, you would easily consider me a democrat in this conversation.
First and formost, I really hope O'reilly references some of the posts in here when hes spotlighting "the evil things liberals say but the right never ever says". I love to be entertained, as I mentioned.
I come here from entirely neutral grounds (gaming community) so please do not mistake me for one of your collective kind, I am here to make fun of you for the sake of making fun.
If God (why do you capitolize the G in god anyways?) doesn't like abortion, why does he allow his creations to partake in such action? Wait, if God even exists, why would he allow this to happen? Before you say "well today god took care of it", what about all the babies killed previous? Were they not righteous enough?
If God exists, and has a plan, then it's safe to assume god is mentally handicapped or just plain evil. Ask the hundreds of babies aborted or the 3k people killed on 9-11. Brilliant plan so far, I know I am that much happier for it, just like all of you.
Hipocracy oozes out of this comment board like an unwanted child on tiller's workbench -or- Hipocracy oozes out of this comment board like Tiller's brain on the freshly swept aisle of his church. (choose according to your affiliation)
Noone shed a tear for the children he killed just as noone will shed a tear for him. Us animals did what we do best, act like animals.
One man's action has no bearing on anything, Frank is retarded to claim otherwise, the rest of you bafoons are retarded to stereotype him for anything broader than what he is: One retard making retarded comments to a group of retards.
The only sensible idea we can all agree on in the end- You all should have been aborted. |
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CTWA Eugene, you are twisitng the meaning of Exodus 21:22-23. The term "depart from her" in that verse is an English translation of the original Hebrew word "yatsa" that denotes a live (though perhaps untimely) birth. This contrasts with the Hebrew word "shakol" that denotes a miscarriage or abortion as used in Hosea 9:14. The word "mischief" in the Exodus verse you quote is translated from "acown" which means hurt."
Me- Ah, yes, one of those wonderful translation problems... Here's the thing...
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: - KJV
If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, - NIV
When men fight, and if one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other damage ensues,- Jewish Publication society.
And thus we have three different translations, which could mean different things...It largely depends on interpretation.
Now two more comments. First the Old Testement pretty much hands out the death penalty for fairly pettty things. Yet this one, they leave to a judge to decide?
Second, the OT calls for women who commit adultery to be stoned. This is why David tried to get Uriah the Hittite to sleep with Bathsheba after he knocked her up. That failed, he conspired to get poor Uriah killed in battle and married her himself. Persumably, adulterous women who were caught were usually caught when they were found to be pregnant. that meant the child was killed along with the mother after the inevitable stoning.
God was so angry at David that he killed the baby. (Again, swell guy, this OT God.)
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Abortion is legal so why travel all the way to Kansas and pay $5,000 for a proceedure offered in every state for a few hundered dollars?
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"I AM a medical professional ... Women kill their pre-born babies for a variety of reasons, mostly to do with inconvenience, but almost never to save their own lives. My point was that a late term abortion is easily avoidable due to modern medical technology and diagnostic procedures"
From the husband of one of his patients:
"In 1994 my wife and I found out that she was pregnant. The pregnancy was difficult and unusually uncomfortable but her doctor repeatedly told her things were fine. Sometime early in the 8th month my wife, an RN who at the time was working in an infertility clinic asked the Dr. she was working for what he thought of her discomfort. He examined her and said that he couldn’t be certain but thought that she might be having twins. We were thrilled and couldn’t wait to get a new sonogram that hopefully would confirm his thoughts. Two days later our joy was turned to unspeakable sadness when the new sonogram showed conjoined twins. Conjoined twins alone is not what was so difficult but the way they were joined meant that at best only one child would survive the surgery to separate them and the survivor would more than likely live a brief and painful life filled with surgery and organ transplants. We were advised that our options were to deliver into the world a child who’s life would be filled with horrible pain and suffering or fly out to Wichita Kansas and to terminate the pregnancy under the direction of Dr. George Tiller."
...
"The nightmare of our decision and the aftermath was only made bearable by the warmth and compassion of Dr. Tiller and his remarkable staff. Dr. Tiller understood that this decision was the most difficult thing that a woman could ever decide and he took the time to educate us and guide us along with the other two couples who at the time were being forced to make the same decision after discovering that they too were carrying children impacted by horrible fetal anomalies." |
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one "Scott Roeder".
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377/
How soon before we find out he was a religious nutter, I wonder? To shoot a doctor in a church. |
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if this nutter had shot a woman who had an abortion, would you all be giving each other high fives the way you are now.
After all, the women who get these procedures are just as guilty as Dr. Tiller was? |
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It's all about the feelings yo. |
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How's that eternal damnation working for you there, monster?
Hell sucks, huh? Couldn't have happened to a sweeter guy. |
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"All who support stopping LEGAL abortions in any way other than by amendment of the constitution are accomplices to this murder. Each and every friggin' one of you." Nonsense, lonny. You are responsible for what you do, not what someone else does. Abortions are only legal in the third trimester because every law that limits abortion in any way are blocked by proabortion activists in the court. 75% of Americans are in favor of some limitation on abortions, usually including a ban on third trimester abortions. About a quarter think all abortion is murder.
I make a counter charge. By blocking all reasonable regulation of abortion and making it totally on demand and unregulated, you are blocking any effective control of abortion except the intimidation and murder of its practitioners. If you allowed the free will of the electorate to regulate abortion, there would be far fewer people likely to be frustrated to the point of murder. |
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I condemn murder all the time, especially all those that the Killer Tiller committed on those innocent babies. His death I don't condemn because it will ensure that more babies will live. Did you ever think that his death might have been "THE REVENGE OF THE INNOCENTS." Coming soon to a theatre near you. |
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You really ARE into projection, aren't you?
The Catholic and Jewish Poles, among other Europeans, were no doubt glad to hear that Hitler was dead. Were they hypocritical? No.
The Catholic Italians were not only glad Mussolini was dead, they came in their thousands to see him and his mistress hanging upside-down from a lamppost. Were they un-Christian to do so? No.
What think ye how the Iraqis must feel about Saddam and his family being currently deceased? DH and I showed our kids the cell-phone vid of Saddam's hanging. Seeing, as they say, is believing.
There's a huge difference between being relieved that a monster is dead, to torment the living no more, and those who like Ted Bundy, who revel in slaughter.
Besides which, even the Bible tells of the martyrs whose souls are safe under God's altar, CRYING to be avenged-"how long, O Lord?"
So instead of calling names, do a little reasearch. Women in this country have NEVER been prosecuted for abortion-it was always the abortionist who was charged. The women, being under duress, were not.
Check the link: http://www.mcadamreport.org/Abortion.html
Then get back to us.
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is WRONG.....
However there is one organization, the NAUF, that is celebrating his death.
Tiller's death means life for many members of NAUF.......
NAUF.........The National Association of Unborn Fetuses. |
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The description sounds about like a lot of townhallers. My first thought when I heard about the murder was to wonder if some townhall regular did it. Not a few of them regularly threaten to shoot people they disagree with.
If we put today's events in a big pot with the Tea Party frenzy and the NRA explosion of power, and boil them all up together and then read a message in the smoke that rises, the message looks to me like "It's not only OK to shoot people you don't like, but it's positively a moral good, not to mention patriotic. Forget laws. A Real American thumbs his nose at laws, which are for sissies, and makes his own law by using his firearms."
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Always the rare exceptions in their anecdotal cases. Carrying conjoint twins does not endanger the life of the mother (any more than a normal twin pregnancy) and the condition is not incompatible with life. In the US, the incidence of conjoint twins is 1 per 33,000-165,000 births. (Source http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/934680-overview). I'll let you do the math on what a fraction of a percentage that is.
Furthermore, 15 years later in 2009, ultrasounds are pretty much routine in every pregnancy and done in the fourth month. |
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God, I love Funditards... They tell me that my work of re-education is never done.
Since those same Catholic Italians supported Mussolini until Italy was losing the war, I guess I just don't have a whole lot of sympathy... In any event, I don't see who the victims of Tiller are who are rejoicing in the streets? People who weren't aborted? No one got an abortion from Tiller who didn't want and in most cases NEEDED one.
I am positive women never have been prosecuted, but for most of that time, they also couldn't vote, own property or speak their minds... They were chattel until fairly recently. Or as you funditards like to call them, "The Good Old Days".
This Roeder character has set the Pro-Life movement back 10 years. Obama will milk this for all he can... |
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It was a late-late-term abortion.
Call it Karma. |
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No, not color-coded. I file by topic. This allows me to retrieve a quotation when I want refer to it so I can quote it accurately. I assume that townhallers are proud of their productions and don't mind being reminded that they advocated murder.
I noticed on TV the other day that there was a sniper standing on the roof of the White House facing Pennsylvania Avenue. I lived in Washington for 30 years; there did not used to be a sniper on the roof of the White House. We live in dangerous times and the Uber-Conservatives seem to be turning up the heat with their threats to kill people. Apparently this doesn't bother the more reasonable Conservatives; I don't recall a single one of them posting to advise their fellows to be just a bit more discreet about making public their longings to commit murder. |
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Oh stop with the sob story already.
We had friends who were diagnosed as having a Down's baby. Turned out it was a misdiagnosis, but already they had been in touch with local groups who help parents of Down's babies, preparing themselves for their special needs child. Abortion was not ever an option. So what is your point?
If the babies weren't 'human' as defined by law or the parents' whim, whence the
'pain' of the decision?
Further, many conjoined twins are alive today and doing just fine, even if they need skilled care. They don't seem to 'suffer' as they have never known a situation any different than the one they possess. Those that are separated sometimes do die, but not one parent who ever gave birth to such twins ever regretted having done so, even knowing that surgical separation could mean loss of one if not both twins. Was there not a recent case of Guatemalan conjoined twins who were birthed, brought to America, separated by surgery, though one did die? Think ye her parents didn't find it worth it all to at least give one of the girls a chance for a reasonably normal life?
It's very easy for an uninvolved third party to 'say' that someone will live a life of pain and hardship. The number of letters after his name is irrelevant. It is quite different for those who actually live life with special needs children who do love against all the odds, no matter the outcome. That, not second-guessing what may or may not come to pass, is faith-and love-in action.
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That's funny, lilly. I didn't notice any liberals in the Bush years putting down all the loons who screeched for Bush's assassination either. Mostly, both sides ignore their trolls. You seem to condemn rightist trolls and cherish your own. |
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Who says this murderer wasn't paid for by the libtards to use as fodder for slandering pro life proponents? Has this murdering fool proclaimed that he did it for pro life reasons? Where is the evidence that he is anything but a plain old murderer? The real investigation should be to find out who paid him to murder. I got a hunch that it was a paid hit with money from libtards! |
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"Always the rare exceptions in their anecdotal cases."
Show us the statistics from Tiller's cases demonstrating that this was a rare case for him.
"In the US, the incidence of conjoint twins is 1 per 33,000-165,000 births."
Misleading. There are four million births per year in the United States. Using your figures, that means there are between 24 and 120 cases of conjoined twins every year. How many late-term abortions did Tiller do every year? I don't know, and I'll bet you don't either, but it's not impossible that the number is a similar order of magnitude. And conjoined twins are only one of the possible reasons that a fetus might be in such bad shape that it was felt necessary to terminate the pregnancy.
"Furthermore, 15 years later in 2009, ultrasounds are pretty much routine"
Read more carefully. "We were thrilled and couldn’t wait to get a NEW sonogram" [emphasis added] They had had a sonogram, that apparently didn't show the problem.
You seem to be agreeing that in THIS case, the termination of the pregnancy was justified. True? |
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Several news stations are announcing the arrest of Scott Roeder, age 51. One says he is from Merriam, Kansas. If you google him on people-finding websites he also comes up as living in Shawnee Mission, Kansas. He is assumed to be the same Scott Roeder who has been heavily involved with Operation Rescue. Roeder is on their website as urging a protest presence of abortion foes to assemble at Tillman's church (this was a couple of years ago). He has been arrested for having bomb-making supplies in his car. |
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"If the babies weren't 'human' as defined by law or the parents' whim, whence the 'pain' of the decision?"
You're questioning why the parents would have found this decision painful? You apparently aren't entirely human.
"not one parent who ever gave birth to such twins ever regretted having done so"
Given Andrea's statistics, there must be thousands of such parents in this country. Where are you getting that fact? |
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I am against what this guy did to Tiller as much as the failed Mao-bama is against gay marriage. |
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FACT, RETARD: Late term abortion is seldom to never a necessity, nevermind an absolute necessity.
Check http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/PBA%20NYT%20lied.pdf The 'doctor' who performed these 'procedures' lied through his teeth-both to himself and to the women whose babies he killed.
You say those babies Tiller killed weren't people. OK then genius, what do you call the babies upon whom reparative surgery is performed while they are still in utero? What kind of intellectual schizophrenia is it that permits the degree of 'wantedness' or perfection to define another's humanity? If women can supposedly do anything, as the old Helen Reddy song asserted, and Gloria Steinem was always screeching we could, why does that 'anything' NOT include child-bearing or raising? Have we all been lied to? Or have women been infantilized by the notion that they shouldn't have to take responsibility for what they do-that with a few hundred dollars they can make it all go away? Why isn't abortion, if it is such an important and fundamental right, done entirely for free-as every pregnancy help center offers its services entirely for free? Why should owning 'stuff' be any measure of morality?
When did you begin to be *you*? Was it at the point of conception, where we all have our beginning, or was it when the Court gave your mother the sole right to be able to define your humanity, and therefore your worth?
Not grateful for much, are you, except of course it's now easier than ever for you to abuse all the women you want, since you can just bully them into aborting your child instead of manning up to your responsibility? |
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Bob Munck writes: Sunday, May, 31, 2009 11:03 PM
AliveInHim 10:49 PM
"If the babies weren't 'human' as defined by law or the parents' whim, whence the 'pain' of the decision?"
You're questioning why the parents would have found this decision painful? You apparently aren't entirely human.
"not one parent who ever gave birth to such twins ever regretted having done so"
Given Andrea's statistics, there must be thousands of such parents in this country. Where are you getting that fact?
Arch says
Munk. What if the baby was not going to be the little boy or girl they always wanted? Should it be fine and dandy to kill the baby then since it wasn't quite up to the parents expectations? Why don't you respect developing human life which is the bedrock of our survival as a species and our progeny? You must hate life and all who partake in it to be so uncaring. |
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"You seem to be agreeing that in THIS case, the termination of the pregnancy was justified. True?"
Careful, Mr. Munck, about putting words in others mouths. You excoriated me for drawing conclusions to your statements when I asked you if you were comfortable with the national debt.
Andrea never made anything close to this admission. A very strange reading of what she said, or more to the point a very strange assumption of things she didn't say. |
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"Late term abortion is seldom to never a necessity"
There's a fair distance between "seldom" and "never." Tell us what you mean by "seldom."
And again, tell us where you got the fact you presented about the parents of conjoined twins. |
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"Careful, Mr. Munck, about putting words in others mouths"
I didn't. I asked her if that was her meaning. |
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We found Bush to be stupid, provincial, and extralegal but we did not call on one another to shoot him. Remember that we are not the ones who keep guns in our homes and our cars, bury extra guns in the basement, and build up huge caches of ammunition. We don't support an organization that methodically gets rid of every attempt at gun control, opposing even the police. We don't threaten to shoot government agents eg "let them come for me, I am ready for them", challenging them to a shootout. We don't long to carry guns in church, at school, and in Yellowstone National Park. We do not constantly refer to Waco and Ruby Ridge. We do not go to Tea Parties where we applaud guest speakers from the NRA. You will not find us at gun fairs. We liberals did not shoot thieves in the act of stealing our neighbor's TV set and claim we did it in self-defense. Nor did we kill a Japanese high school exchange student because he came to our door in Hallowe'en costume. We do not brag about what crack shots we are. The talk of armed uprising began when Obama took office. We would have liked to see Bush, Cheney, and Rove tied up with ropes and led out of the White House on a chain. That would have been enough. |
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Maybe you can google and produce some letters by disgruntled Tiller patients in which the good doctor refused to abort a healthy trimester baby.Take your time I can wait. |
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Tiller owes his death to Roe v. Wade, ultimately. We know he lived for Roe V. Wade; and now he dies for it. Fitting end to a shameless life.
The killer will end in prison.
Now; we should all stump for a new national holiday to commemorate Tiller at Room Temperature on the calendar.
Name it Unborn Innocents' Day. |
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The stillbirth rate is 40-60% for conjoint twins, so only 1 in 200,000 such pregnancies results in a live birth. The point is not how many of these cases ended up with Dr. Tiller, the point is that this condition is not incompatible with life. Depending on where the union is and what organs are involved, they may or may not be able to be separated. I have taken care of patients with both situations--operable and inoperable. Also, this type of pregnancy is not a risk to the *mother's* life or even her health, which was the fallacy that Axe was promoting.
As to my opinion, I don't believe it is ever justifiable to abort a pre-born baby unless the mother's LIFE is in danger (like in a tubal pregnancy) or the baby has a condition that is incompatible with life (like anencephaly--the baby's brain only partially forms). The first is self-defense because there is no way to correct the problem and fallopian tube will rupture as the embryo grows, causing the woman to bleed to death if not repaired quickly. The second is understandable, although if it were my child, I would let nature take its course. I could not kill my child even in that circumstance. |
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"Any other letters,munck?"
Letters? Where are you seeing letters? |
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We all make choices. Tiller made his knowing his life was in danger doing so. He is quoted to say that he thinks God gave him this mission to help women end the life of their babies. Another quote I have seen says that Tiller knew the fetuses were still alive during the abortion. Another supposed fact is that he is credited with aborting about 10,000 late term pregnancies since doing these procedures. I don't always believe what I read and so maybe some of this is true. Tiller has been a target for many years, but what does bother me is how much focus there has been on abortions from our current president. Expanding abortion rights was a first priority which frankly seems strange to me. Appointing Kathleen, a friend of Tiller and a proponent of abortions, seems a poor choice unless one is intent on fanning the flames. Lastly choosing to speak at Notre Dame was also fanning the flames. Obama has admitted that both sides feel so strongly that neither will ever back down and so I am left wondering why does government go there at all. What is the upside? |
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"I don't believe it is ever justifiable to abort a pre-born baby unless the mother's LIFE is in danger (like in a tubal pregnancy) or the baby has a condition that is incompatible with life"
And how many of Tiller's cases did not meet your criteria? If you have an answer, where did you get the information? |
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lilly writes: Sunday, May, 31, 2009 11:26 PM
To robert
We found Bush to be stupid, provincial, and extralegal but we did not call on one another to shoot him. Remember that we are not the ones who keep guns in our homes and our cars, bury extra guns in the basement, and build up huge caches of ammunition. We don't support an organization that methodically gets rid of every attempt at gun control, opposing even the police. We don't threaten to shoot government agents eg "let them come for me, I am ready for them", challenging them to a shootout. We don't long to carry guns in church, at school, and in Yellowstone National Park. We do not constantly refer to Waco and Ruby Ridge. We do not go to Tea Parties where we applaud guest speakers from the NRA. You will not find us at gun fairs. We liberals did not shoot thieves in the act of stealing our neighbor's TV set and claim we did it in self-defense. Nor did we kill a Japanese high school exchange student because he came to our door in Hallowe'en costume. We do not brag about what crack shots we are. The talk of armed uprising began when Obama took office. We would have liked to see Bush, Cheney, and Rove tied up with ropes and led out of the White House on a chain. That would have been enough.
Arch says
Lilly. That is exactly why you will always be a slave to someone else. You have no fortitude to protect this country by any and all means. You libtards are yellow coward scum. Unfit to be lawgivers in the nation as you cannot protect it.
You are an appeaser and limpy wristed wimp attempting to lecture us who would do the dirty work of protecting your sorry a$$. No respect is due to yellow traitors. |
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of ANY kind.
However........there may be an appropriate slogan for this incident.
"One man dies, so that hundreds may live".......
all in all.........it just might be a great swap-off........ |
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"And how many of Tiller's cases did not meet your criteria? If you have an answer, where did you get the information?"
I have no idea. What are you getting at? |
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Babies aren't babies before they are born but Fetuses..and just what is the definition of Fetus pray tell?
I have a now 18 year old grandson who was born 10 weeks early via emergency C section..he weighed a tad over 3 pounds but within hours of his birth it dropped to 2.6 pounds due to serious
problems..heart failing so it was injected with a drug to keep it going with no guarantee after it wore off that the heart would continue; lungs collapsed, one twice all within his first five days of life outside the womb. We literally prayed him through every crisis then and the almost yearly events of pneumonia and chronic asthma since. He's a wonderful young man, yet you believe he should have died because he was a mere FETUS.. How ironic that babies who start life as he did are in neo natal nurserie with every medical help that is available because the mother wanted him..yet those same babies are referred as Fetuses by the abortion industry (that makes a tidy profit on the blood of these babies including Tiller) so they can be murdered.
The Abortion supporters can't have it both ways,
it can't be a baby one day and a FETUS the next day so that it can be killed right up to and following birth because the mother opted for it.
And that kind of abortion, late term isn't for the mother's health, she still endures labor which is stressful to begin with and if her health is in jeopardy that labor can be lethal.
And I speak as a woman whose life was in jeopardy
during the birth of my youngest child..and I
would NEVER have consented to sacrificing his life for mine. |
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"I have no idea. What are you getting at?"
It's possible that every single abortion he performed was one of which you would have approved, given your criteria for them. Yet you have no trouble calling him a "butcher" and otherwise lending support to his murder. |
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Libtards are very proficient at defending the right to kill the innocent unborn. Yet they quiver and quake at killing those who would enslave and murder millions of us. They have not one nad between them all. |
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We need to commemorate what turns out to be a watershed for unborn innocents in the U.S.
We're always hearing about "awareness" and raising awareness. Today is Unborn Innocents Day; memorial to one of abortion's cruelest practitioners; on his way to judgment. I expect the awareness of Americans will be sharpened acutely;
They'll contemplate the untold number of tiny victims Dr. Tiller exterminated; and the day he was carted away dead. May 31; a day on which abortionists everywhere were denounced as exterminators.
One bullet meant as a lethal denunciation of abortion peddlers! Let's hear it for "abort your baby" awareness, guilty moms! You killed Dr. Teller as surely as that bullet.
You and Roe V. Wade killed Killer Tiller . |
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Why does it seem strange to you that Obama has taken steps to assure abortion rights: 1) Abortion happens to be legal in the United States. However you may disagree about abortion, the fact is that it is LEGAL. 2) Nevertheless, steps have been taken in recent years making it more difficult for women to obtain abortion as their LEGAL RIGHT and sometimes even to obtain contraception. 3) Obama was elected by a majority that was sick and tired of having our laws dictated by the Far Right (few abortion providers available; pharmacists allowed to refuse legitimate prescriptions by doctors for contraceptive drugs; family planning funds withheld from international agencies if abortion is available there; even an attempt to ban doctors from discussing abortion with patients; Abstinence Only education not teaching about contraception).
It should be quite easy to understand this. Obama is doing what he's doing because we elected him and told him to do it. |
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"We found Bush to be stupid, provincial, and extralegal but we did not call on one another to shoot him." Oh, come on. I was on a lot of threads where that is all the libbies did. You have an extraordinarily selective memory. I've had it out with any number who went into sick fantasies about killing Bush. Lefties were having fantasies about killing Bush all the time on every thread I was on. |
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"It's possible that every single abortion he performed was one of which you would have approved, given your criteria for them. Yet you have no trouble calling him a 'butcher' and otherwise lending support to his murder."
Now you are lying. Go back and read all my posts on the three threads. I gave no support to his murder; rather I repeatedly said that what Scott Roeder did was lawless. Vigilantism is not biblical justice. Roeder should get the death penalty for what he did.
Beside, it only takes one unnecessary case to condemn Tiller. The proper penalty for mass murder is the same as for a single murder--execution by the STATE after a fair trial. There is an entire thread here on TH showing O'Reilly's interview of a young woman who was taken to Tiller from Maryland because she was 20 weeks pregnant. No congenital anomaly, no maternal risk. Just a 14 year old whose parents didn't want her to have a baby, so they forced her to abort it and Tiller was happy to oblige. There are plenty of quotes out there supposedly made by Tiller detailing his butchery; there must have been something to it for the state of Kansas to investigate him.
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You say 'steps have been taken making it more difficult for women to get abortions.' What steps? You say "sick and tired of having our laws dictated by the Far Right" What laws? What far right? 75% of all Americans want some restrictions on abortion-- are they all far right? You say a lot of other silly things, too, but they don't match up with reality. Every single responsible restriction on unlimited abortion on demand has been thwarted by proabortion activists using the courts, not the will of the people as expressed through their legislatures. Doctors don't want to perform abortions. This is a right wing conspiracy? Get real. |
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Things are said all the time on left and rightwing 'threads' - but actions speak louder than words, and your rightwing nutjobs are speaking VERY LOUDLY with GUNS. |
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Actually, one of your gang didn't know how to behave because today he committed murder. And even though some of you are applauding him for that act, the law is (as you have been reminding us all week) impartial, and if Kansas has the death penalty, and this board informs me that it does, then the murderer of Dr Tiller will likely be a candidate for it.
Freedom of speech is a fine thing, but if you spout immoderate language, you will be seen as immoderate and your words can get you into trouble if they connect you with a crime. Some townhallers routinely call for the murder of their political opponents. They make it clear, over and over, that they have both means and motive. There is such a thing as incriminating behavior. Scott Roeder, who has been arrested and soon will be charged with Dr Tiller's murder, has a history of committing and planning anti-abortion terrorism and specifically a history of organizing harrassment of Dr Tiller. His immoderate language is on the Operation Rescue website: read it for yourself, as many already have. This will all be brought up at his trial.
You may live under the Big Sky, but having a Big Mouth can get you into Big Trouble. And there are some kinds of trouble that having guns can't get you out of. Rather the opposite. |
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"Now you are lying"
Andrea 8:55 PM: "... just like the butcher he killed."
"her parents ... forced her to abort it and Tiller was happy to oblige."
Happy? How do you know that? The parents were asking him to perform a legal activity, and you are blaming him, holding him guilty? Would you not also call the parents in this case butchers?
"there must have been something to it for the state of Kansas to investigate him."
Did it find him guilty of anything? Again, how do you know that EVERY ONE of his cases didn't fit your criteria? A third-hand report of an interview on an entertainment show?
The interesting part is that you do, indeed, have a set of criteria under which abortions are acceptable. What exactly makes your criteria apply to other people? If something like this happened to you, you would get to make the choice. |
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Virtually all pro-life groups strongly condemned the murder. That's the position of the great majority of pro-life people. You know that these boards attract people who take extreme positions. The left takes plenty of extreme positions all the time, including constantly calling for the death of Bush in the past and for the suppression of all their political opponents now, including this thread. As far as the Right having all the guns, so what? If there was no private ownership of guns, we still would have all of them because conservatives make up the majority of the military and police. Believe me, there are extremely few leftist policemen or military. Since a lot of the left-wing nutcakes on this thread are calling for the suppression and arrest of pro-life leaders and closing down news stations, they're calling for force to establish their political beliefs-- they're just relying on the police to use force for them. I only believe the nonviolent when they don't call the police. Otherwise they are hypocrites. |
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I only wish everybody carried guns today.
Did a gun kill Tiller-Killer today? Not at all. Roe V. Wade was the cause of his death.
It just happens a violent man went looking for the evil doc; the rest was nothing extraordinary. In the old west men got shot down for looking twice at a man's mistress on the sidewalk. .
Whereas; a baby-killer of wide renown gave his life today for "the right to choose." Only one life to give; he gave it. Tonight feminists are having a "candle-vigil" for that heroic physician. How touching, really! He died for the cause of "choice"--! |
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It's getting late.
You are grasping at straw. Calling Tiller a butcher doesn't mean I support his murder by a vigilante. The state of Kansas couldn't make its case...that doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrong.
Look, I worked at a hospital that was affiliated with a doctor like Tiller in the late 1980s. He was known in the Philadelphia area for doing late term abortions for any reason and several were for sex selection. Even the pro-abortion nurses that worked there refused to take care of one family after three elective 20 week abortions of female fetuses. I know how these doctors conduct themselves, and if you want to insist I have no proof that Tiller killed lots of babies for frivolous reasons be my guest. It's academic now; he can't have a fair trial. Hopefully, Scott Roeder won't get a judge who is "empathetic." |
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Frank writes: Monday, June, 01, 2009 12:28 AM
lilly
Big sky cowboy is pretty much a moron so don't bother wasting your breath on a turnd like him.
On the other hand if you look at dreadnaught and the fact that no conservatives have condemed his sta,enets is pretty typical of townhall-the extreme right will cover its own no matter how stupid the things they say-in this case for so many on this site its ok to embrace a murderer and they will.
In fact I hope they do it publically so the whole world can see what kind of jerks thee people are.
Today is a sad day because once again the far right has let America and its children down.
Like always they take the shortcut and show the real contempt they they have for the rule of law and the sanctity of life.
They are the terrorists now.
Arch says
Frank. I thought that the terrorists in your eyes were freedom fighters! You know. Those filthy Islamo butchers?
When it comes to your countrymen, I notice that the shoe is on the other foot. You are sick my friend! |
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The same people who are holding Dr. Tiller up as a martyr are slavering for the blood of the murderer. Ironic, isn't it? Killing viable fetuses is a merciful medical intervention, executing a nutty murderer is justifiable, but killing someone who has performed around ten thousand abortions on mostly viable fetuses is incomprehensibly horrible.
I'm against abortion, murder, and capital punishment. That's consistent, if sometimes hard to defend. Any liberals out there have the same consistency, or is murder great as long as it's a conservative nutcase or a nine month baby you're killing? |
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Why are you now cross-examining Andrea? She has every right to her own opinion.
Because you defend the practice of Tiller the Killer is no justified exoneration owed him. He was guilty of multiple infanticidal murders; under cover of law. The end of his horrid life is no cause for hand-wringing and sorrow.
In fact; I'm confident this urgent Nat'l Right to Life disavowal of murder and violence is cursory political correctness for the national media's sake. They shouldn't have to bow down to an abortion lobby because delicate people will talk. Tiller had this coming, just as his assassin must pay for his crime. That is life; that adds up to justice. |
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If we really are like the Islamofascists, and there really are about a hundred million of us, do you imagine for a minute you'd still be alive? Your delusions of significance are absurd. |
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I posted before I read all the posts and given your expertise in the field, you can say it much better than I. I do react emotionally however when I think of what my grandson has endured in his life, to survive..he's got a maturity beyond his years as I believe so many children who survive serious illnesses do. Yet these ghouls would have him dead because his life isn't a bed of roses.
RE: your 11:33 post about anecephaly..I can attest to a family whose baby suffered from this
and they chose to carry her through to birth. I forget how long she lived but that baby preached a better sermon in her short few hours of life here than any preacher.
It's too bad that Tiller didn't use his medical knowledge to save life rather than profit from the death of viable babies. I saw a picture of him recently and he looked like the picture of Dorian Grey..it reflected his reprobate life.
For trolls to say pro lifers wished his death is a farce given their reaction, a blanket condemnation of all prolifers. His death is fodder for the abortion lovers propaganda machine and you can bet our dear leader will make the most of it. |
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dreadnaught writes: Monday, June, 01, 2009 12:45 AM
Dear Bob Munuck
Why are you now cross-examining Andrea? She has every right to her own opinion.
Because you defend the practice of Tiller the Killer is no justified exoneration owed him. He was guilty of multiple infanticidal murders; under cover of law. The end of his horrid life is no cause for hand-wringing and sorrow.
In fact; I'm confident this urgent Nat'l Right to Life disavowal of murder and violence is cursory political correctness for the national media's sake. They shouldn't have to bow down to an abortion lobby because delicate people will talk. Tiller had this coming, just as his assassin must pay for his crime. That is life; that adds up to justice.
Arch says
Dread. I thought this needed repeating. Great point! |
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Frank writes: Monday, June, 01, 2009 12:47 AM
Arch
you are a terrorist swine no better than the islamofachists.
Instead of beheading people you conservatives just murder them at their place of worship.
you have more in common with the jihadists since you seem to use the exact same methods-murder and intimidation.
You're also both the worst kind of cowards.
Arch says
Wrong. I am a freedom fighter for my cause and for humanity's well being. Any murderer will be dealt justice within the current law and those that object will get their justice also. I have lots of guns and ammo and will not hesitate to use them in defense of my nation's constitution.
You, on the other hand, are the extreme coward. You will not stand up for the liberty and freedom of human beings born and unborn. You are an enslavement enhancer and killer of innocent human beings. Doesn't take much courage to abort an innocent human being does it? You have not the courage of a terrorist or even a human being! You are a spineless coward hiding behind your nasty master! |
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Frank has been at his computer all day posting the most unhinged swill I've ever seen.
Obviously Frank is nothing more than an irrational leftist agitator determined to use this incident against ALL conservatives.....in the finest traditions of organized labor leg-breakers from generations past.
Frank is an irrational psychopath. It's best to consider him no better than the lizard, or munck or any of the other lefties I don't read....
You are beneath contempt Frank. I don't even think of you as human. Is this what you've learned at your BLT "church?"
Conservatives will sleep tonight, while you lie awake thinking of new ways to exploit the death of Tiller... Sick.
Nite all.....
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"hence why we need to start rounding you people up to pre-empt any more terrorism." So much for the Constitution, eh Frank? What an absurd fantasy! Who are you going to get to do the rounding up, since the military and police are nearly all also conservative? Also, they are pledged to support the Constitution, not leftist pogroms. And by your definition, three quarters of the country are right wing extremists, since that's the proportion who want some restriction on abortion. About 25%, or 75 million, think abortion is murder. For you, that's the EXTREME right wing. Seventy-five million people, Frank? Maybe you can form a liberal posse to round up the seventy-five million. You can bore us into surrendering. |
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Frank writes: Monday, June, 01, 2009 12:55 AM
Robert
hence why we need to start rounding you people up to pre-empt any more terrorism.
Thank God Obama has deployed the Marshalls.
That's step one in providing long term permanent security for the clinics.
Next week need to start wiretapping Operation Rescue phone calls cause obviously they arre at the ehart of this new radical violent conservatism.
Arch says
Looking for government to be your protector huh Frank? You cannot hide or be protected when someone has it in for you. Right my boy? |
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"You are grasping at straw."
No, I'm making a point. You admit there are situations in which a late-term abortion is the right thing to do. With the murder of Dr. Tiller, there are now just two doctors in the country who perform them. The rest have been driven out of the practice or themselves killed because of the fanatic, take-no-prisoners approach of the mainstream of the anti-choice movement. Their actions have ranged from eight murders to "only" calling them butchers on public forums.
It's entirely possible that those two remaining doctors will now also quit, making it no longer possible to obtain a medical procedure that you admit is sometimes necessary.
Dreadnaught says you have the right to your own opinion, and in this rare instance, he's right. What you don't have is the right to enforce your opinion on others.
The reason I quoted that text describing an actual case of Tiller's was to put a human face on the agony that most parents go through when the situation makes it necessary for them to have a late-term abortion. And these are the people that you would force to do what you want them to do.
Sorry if I've upset you by arguing with your opinion. You are, in fact, one of the most reasoned of the anti-abortionists posting on this thread. I have no desire to argue with bloodthirsty monsters like arch, foxmustang, and dreadnaught. |
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nite nite Frank! {Laughter} |
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Andrea 12:39 AM
"You are grasping at straw."
No, I'm making a point. You admit there are situations in which a late-term abortion is the right thing to do. With the murder of Dr. Tiller, there are now just two doctors in the country who perform them. The rest have been driven out of the practice or themselves killed because of the fanatic, take-no-prisoners approach of the mainstream of the anti-choice movement. Their actions have ranged from eight murders to "only" calling them butchers on public forums.
It's entirely possible that those two remaining doctors will now also quit, making it no longer possible to obtain a medical procedure that you admit is sometimes necessary.
Dreadnaught says you have the right to your own opinion, and in this rare instance, he's right. What you don't have is the right to enforce your opinion on others.
The reason I quoted that text describing an actual case of Tiller's was to put a human face on the agony that most parents go through when the situation makes it necessary for them to have a late-term abortion. And these are the people that you would force to do what you want them to do.
Sorry if I've upset you by arguing with your opinion. You are, in fact, one of the most reasoned of the anti-abortionists posting on this thread. I have no desire to argue with bloodthirsty monsters like arch, foxmustang, and dreadnaught.
Arch says
Munk. I am not a blood thirsty monster. Those who have no respect for human life are. Which are you? |
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OK, Bob.
Now we know. You and the left are not monsters. Conservatives are. Tiller was just doing his "job," snuffing infants at the moment of birth.
There's something pathetic about you-- a man supposedly mature and experienced; repeating insane tripe about "pro-choice." You believe an intrinsic evil is just "CHOICE" we owe to the mothers of --twelve, fifteen generations of dead human beings. They were exterminated. We realize Roe V. Wade is called the law of the land. It is nonetheless cold, premeditated murder of innocents. And you know it!
Don't call infanticide a mere choice. Stop the hypocrisy and speak like a real man. What the hell are you afraid of? Pregnancy isn't a disease, and murder isn't a choice. |
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Munck, very agitated over "choice,"
"With the murder of Dr. Tiller, there are now just two doctors in the country who perform them. The rest have been driven out of the practice or themselves killed because of the fanatic, take-no-prisoners approach of the mainstream of the anti-choice movement. Their actions have ranged from eight murders to "only" calling them butchers on public forums."
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ONLY TWO heroic doctors left in the country to exterminate so many living, innocent babies at birth's door? Maybe there are twenty thousand pregnant girls; about to make that "choice,"
"Please, Doctor Dear! I must have a dead baby when I leave this clinic. It's my CHOICE, you see."
What are these fine girls going to do now; to have no live offspring obstructing their big potential? "We have a shortage of baby-stabbing specialists! It's your fault, Dreadnaught! We know what a bloodthirsty monster you are! Where are we going to find another Killer Tiller?"
Beats me, Munck. You could hire a hit-man out of Las Vegas. Shoot the infant as it emerges from the birth canal. Seriously; where can we find you that phone number? |
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If you take Tiller's ten thousand abortions, you're bound to find one or two that make some sense. Maybe even ten. Let's be generous-- perhaps a hundred. That neither explains nor excuses the other nine thousand, nine hundred or so. Exceptions make bad laws, and there is no perfect justice. Abortion of a fetus that can survive outside the womb is a homicide by any standard that can morally or rationally be applied. As for the statement, "The rest have been driven out of the practice or themselves killed because of the fanatic, take-no-prisoners approach of the mainstream of the anti-choice movement. Their actions have ranged from eight murders to "only" calling them butchers on public forums." The mainstream of the pro-life movement is not fanatic and does not condone violence. That has been demonstrated over and over. Your characterization of tens of millions of sincere, humane pro-life people demands an apology to them or contempt from everyone who knows the truth of what I say. |
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"Today is a sad day because once again the far right has let America and its children down."
Yes. By murdering every child he could for fun and profit, he was actually helping them.
Flawless logic, frank. Keep posting. Let everyone benefit from your brilliance. LOL!!!
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Tiller the baby killer will save you a spot with him in hell.
How's that eternal damnation taste, murderer? Want some ice water? Bet that right about now you wished you had helped kids instead of slaking your thirst for death with their innocent blood.
Is your new digs really as hot as they say it is? You can take satisfaction in the knowledge that you truly earned your new position. Best of all, you can hang out with the dumb slob who leveled your karma for you.
BTW...How is hitler and the rest of your leftist heroes? Has the proprieter started on the new obama wing yet? Have fun, you despicable monster! |
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Hell has internet, huh? That's actually pretty awesome. Satan knows what the people want.
Actually, I bet it's dial-up. Still, better than the alternative; heaven's got a sewer pipe in terms of bandwidth, but everything's blocked. |
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ctwa, Eugene you wrote: "Me- Ah, yes, one of those wonderful translation problems... Here's the thing...
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: - KJV
If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, - NIV
When men fight, and if one of them pushes a pregnant woman and a miscarriage results, but no other damage ensues,- Jewish Publication society.
And thus we have three different translations, which could mean different things...It largely depends on interpretation."
Cwta, Eugene, it depends on what the writer meant and thus upon an accurate interpretation of the original language. I encourage everyone to examine the original languages of the scriptures.
The NIV version seems to convey in modern English the main thrust of the passage fairly well.
I googled the Jewish Publication Society's Exodus 21:22 at http://www.hareidi.org/bible/Exodus21.htm#22 and it does not say what you say it says. It says: "And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow, he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine." They do not use the term "miscarriage", likely for the very reason I cited in my 9:11 p.m. post - they interpret the passage according to the intent of the original language.
Where did you get your citation of the JPS version from?
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...is that this dude who did the shooting, Roeder? Uses the exact same rhetoric you get from the conservative whackjobs around here. An example:
"It seems as though what is happening in Kansas could be compared to the 'lawlessness' which is spoken of in the Bible. Tiller is the concentration camp 'Mengele' of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgment upon our nation."
That was apparently posted on some crazy-go-nuts right-wing anti-abortion site. Granted, the grammar's a tad above average for the conservatives here, but all the same, I couldn't swear that dreadnaught or Stoic Patriot or Ronna or any of the rest haven't used that exact phrasing before. |
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Cwta, Eugene, it depends on what the writer meant and thus upon an accurate interpretation of the original language. I encourage everyone to examine the original languages of the scriptures.
The NIV version seems to convey in modern English the main thrust of the passage fairly well.
Me- No, it conveys the version YOU want. It would seem unlikely the Hebrews considered fetuses to be people, if they routinely stoned pregnant adulteresses. Again, I would point out the story of David and Bathsheba, where David went to very convoluted lengths to protect Bathsheba after he seduced her. Why not just declare a pardon for her? Because even as a King, he was bound by a very convoluted law. That would seem to imply that women who got pregnant by men other than their husbands were routinely killed.
And again, God actually killed the Child of David and Bathsheba. (2 Samual 12)
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ONLY TWO heroic doctors left in the country to exterminate so many living, innocent babies at birth's door? Maybe there are twenty thousand pregnant girls; about to make that "choice,"
What are these fine girls going to do now; to have no live offspring obstructing their big potential? "We have a shortage of baby-stabbing specialists! It's your fault, Dreadnaught! We know what a bloodthirsty monster you are! Where are we going to find another Killer Tiller?"
Me- Once again, no one has a late term abortion unless something has gone terribly wrong...
Hey, turns out the killer was a member of the Catholic Nutters at Operation Rescue. What a surprise. |
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Sadly, that's what we are seeing today...
i had hoped that they would show shame at this terrible thing, but instead, what I get the impression of is that they only lament they didn't have the guts or balls to do the deed themselves... |
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The killer and killed
BOTH were wrong... the heck with the bible, the heck with "choice".
Dr Tiller a medical professional who took an oath to save lives if they have a chance to live. Made a choice to kill.
The killer who took his life also made a choice.
If a woman has already carried a child long enough for it to be "viable" why did Dr Tiller not insist that instead of aborting wait a little longer (deliver it early if need be) and put it up for adoption to someone who would love it? (His bad choice for whatever reason...)
There are thousands of people waiting to adopt these kids...why do you think so many go overseas to adopt..because there is a child shortage here.
The killer is scum!... I hope he is convicted and gets what he deserves. He a loose cannon vigilante. In a nation of laws no one can take the law into their own hands.
John Adams who defended the Brittish Regulars when they fired on the crowd in the Boston Massacre had it right. The law has to apply to everyone equally and no one can be above it.
We need a law to stop late term abortions and a way to help these pregnant mothers who turn to it. We need to make adoption easier for those who would want these "about to be killed" children.
It would save lives on both sides of the argument |
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Under which circumstance IS sticking a scissors into a baby's head and sucking out his brains ever the right thing to do?
Check the link I gave to another poster earlier on.
As to the Guatemalan conjoined twins, it was all over the news. Here is a link I suggest you follow to read about that and other similar situations:
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/ctwins.html
You're welcome. |
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Say, why don't you American Taliban go all the way...
Why not advocate the women who get these abortions be shot as well?
I mean, if it's a conspiracy between the women and tiller, aren't they just as guilty?
ANy woman having a late term abortion is going through some agonizing bit of hell, and she doesn't need you funditards making it worse for her. Dry up and blow away. |
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