Friday, June 08, 2007
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A Conversation With Senator Kyl
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Posted by:
Hugh Hewitt at
6:41 PM
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Senator Jon Kyl was my guest this afternoon --the transcript is here-- The immigration bill is clearly not dead, and the effort to resurrect it will be intense.
I tried to raise the points I have heard most often from critics of the draft bill who, like me, are not opposed to regularization of most of the illegals in the country but who are concerned with gaps in the security provisions. I don't see why more of the fence can't be built before Z visas start to issue, why illegals from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan and other countries with jihadist networks of long standing should be treated the same as illegals from Mexico and Central America, and why the law can't be written to make express the determination of the Congress that due process rights will not attach to probationary benefits under old Section 601(h). Senator Kyl conceded that the conservatives have seen their leverage increase in the past few days, and that Senators DeMint and Sessions are crucial to the fashioning of a package of amendments the full consideration of which will be a precondition to resuming debate.
Those amendments not only have to be offered, I suspect, they will have to pass to salvage the bill. But if Senator Kennedy really wants a bill, now is the time to push for genuine border security and serious increases in the domestic security forces within the U.S. An amendment recognizing that illegals from "countries of special interest" have to receive an affirmative clearance from the government before getting work and travel permits seems an absolute necessity as well given our recent experiences with the Kennedy Airport Four and the Fort Dix Six. Such affirmative declarations will have some government official's name on them, which will surely increase the real scrutiny being paid to such applicants for Z visas. So too does additional funding and personnel levels for the agencies tasked with scrutinizing the millions of new probationary residents.
Here's the political danger: To bring back a bill with only cosmetic changes will enrage the GOP base far beyond where they already were when their complaints were perceived as being ignored. Republican activistswill feel as though they are being conned if the bill that was thought to be dead is raised up in the same form and quickly passed. A successful relaunch will begin with a press conference that details the changes that have been made in Immigration Bill 2.0. If there is a sequel, it has to be a much improved version of the original.
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Kyl says so. We need to double our efforts as they believe they can wear us out and down. I will call and email with the same intensity as before - maybe more if i can. |
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If this immigration bill is not going to die now, each state that can recall Senators, needs it's own recall movement run by local people.
First, verify with the AG and/or Sec of State if Senators can be recalled.
Second, get the paper work.
Third, immediately run a poll of registered voters (some states may allow unregistered adults to sign the petitions) or adults to see how much support there is for a recall of particular Senators. AZ, NV, CO, ID, MT, WA, KS looked like promising targets. There may be more. I know that Senatorial recalls have been run in the past in AZ, CA, and WI. It only takes about 150,000 signatures to recall Senator Kyl.
A robo poll will cost you very little.
Fourth, organize. Develop a budget, get donations and plan out the petition drive with achievement bench marks. You may or may not be able to use the internet (check with election law officals in the state). Whoever signs has to reside in that state.
Make sure you comply with Campaign Finance laws (thank you John) such as PAC and 527 laws, both federal and state laws may apply. You will need a very good election lawyer on board who knows both state and federal law and who will work for free.
If the polls come out a day or two after the bill resurfaces and the results show a real threat to the Senators that may help. You can find a marketing firm that can get all of the robo calls done in one or two nights at relatively small cost and release the results (make sure you use a truly random sample). If you can get some publicity before you run the poll that would help a lot.
If you proceed and your state will allow it. Use robo calls to identify which households will sign the petition and use them to recruit for you. Also use the robo calls to route signers to a web site and have them down load the forms and mail them in.This is much more efficient than door to door. Make sure your state will accept petitions using the above methods before you gather petitions that way.
You will get better results on the polls if you can get publicity first so that people know what you are calling about and are already thinking and talking about it. |
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Hugh has shown his bias in that Sessions won't be invited for a full interview. To have hacks like Chertoff and Kyl obfuscate and dilute the level of Kennedy-McCain IR'08 outrage is Hugh's thing.M.Steyn being on is just to throw us a bone
as the meat are those with active policy power.
Notice Robert Recter is absent,as that would provide true opposing viewpoint perspective,rather than trying to tweak "regularization" paliability. |
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If it isn't dead, it won't need a resurrection.
It has to be dead before it can be resurrected.
There's a certain logic there.
But you've forgotten something. With this bill we've left far behind the ordinary world, and we've entered the world of HORROR.
And in the world of horror, many beings exist in the shadowy world between the living and the dead, coming out to feed, like nocturnal beings.
That might be what we have here.
A MUMMY. Adorned in the wrappings of death itself, {cloture vote}, yet nonetheless ALIVE!
We really need a sound effect right now, Gene Wilder crying out "IT'S ALIVE ... It's ALIVE!"
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"is clearly not dead..." And the "effort to ressurect it will be intense..." ? If it's not dead, why does it need to be resurrected? |
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No one in their right mind wants regularization (amnesty) for illegals. Amnesty will destroy the rule of law. What needs to be done is: build the fence and enforce existing law. |
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I don't think it's wise to harbour any illusions about the deliberations going on about this bill.
President Bush has NO domestic achievement. The only claim to fame he has were those tax cuts. But they were sunsetted, and they're due to expire.
Homeland Security is a vast, bureaucratic leviathan, whose clumsiness and incompetence were prominently displayed during the response to Katrina.
Bush looked an incompetent dope during Katrina partially because he yielded to the Democrat's call to establish a NEW Department, namely, the Department for Homeland Security.
He has NOTHING to show domestically for almost eight years of governance.
He's not going to get that tax cut made permanent.
He's not going to find the nerve to force through a genuine energy reform bill, that's worthy of the party, worthy of the nation.
He doesn't have a prayer for any alteration in American entitlements.
So what's left for him?
Where can he make his presence known, where can he leave a stamp?
IMMIGRATION REFORM.
I'VE NO DOUBT that even if we defeat this new attack, he'll come again, and if we defeat him then, he'll come again, and again, and again.
He's got nothing else to do.
THERE'S NOTHING that he can turn to domestically.
For him, for Rove, for Bolton, for Snow, domestically, IMMIGRATION is the ONLY show in town.
So get ready for battle.
For it's a blockhead we're battling, allied with blockheads. And the only thing worse than blockheads are EGOMANIACAL blockheads. |
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The cheap labor express has too much to lose to allow it to be shut down. Most of the citizens want exactly that, but the power and money in both parties wants amnesty/regularization/guestworker, including Hugh. He is concerned about jihadis. He does not care about illegal aliens flooding our country as long as they are not Islamic/Arabic. The Grand Bargainers will try to get enough people like Hugh who are OK with amnesty on board with additional security promises.
If the GOP wasn't in the pockets of the cheap labor lobby and had 2 brain cells to rub together, they could clean up in November 2008. A platform of border security and law enforcement would create a landslide. Instead they will continue calling us racist, xenophobic, nativist, retsrictionist, anti-immigrant, yahoos and try to shove another amnesty down our throats. I'll bet that isn't going to get them many votes. |
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Hugh: You recently led an (honorable) effort to draw a line in the sand with Republican senators regarding their support for the War in Iraq. Your effort was on the mark, courageous, correct, just, and -- I would suggest -- effectual in bringing wobbly Republican senators (the Hagels excepted) back onto the reservation vis-a-vis their support for the President's push for a surge.
Now, I am taking it upon myself on behalf of likeminded Hugh Hewitt listeners and TownHall users to draw a line in the sand for you: If you continue to make nice to Senator Kyl after his recent abandonment of Constitution, Country, Party, and common sense over his support for the McCain-Kennedy travesty, and if you continue to say that you are are "open" to a "compromise" that would not only revive this all-but-dead bill but also "regularize" (read: Grant amnesty to) the 12 to 30 million law-breakers that the MSM moan over daily, we will no longer recognize you as a Conservative political force.
You will forever thereafter in our minds still be brilliant, erudite, eloquent, and talented... but all in the cause of the object of your true allegiance -- RINOism.
What will it be Hugh -- Senator Kyl and the inside-the-beltway-Kool-Aid-drinking RINOs -- or the truly conservative Republican base?
Remember: There are more of us than there are of them -- although we cannot offer you Cabinet positions or invitations to hoity-toity white-tie dinners.
We are waiting for you to come out SWINGING against Kyl, Graham, and Martinez -- and against amnesty in ANY form....or we will no longer be able to see you as being in our camp .....
Oh, and we know about Michael Savage, too. |
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We can't solve the immigration problem when local and state officials fail to obey federal laws and actually hinder federal enforcement. The infamous New Haven raid which Sen Kennedy cites so often would not have been needed if state and locals had enforced their own labor laws. NYC could solve it's illegal alien problem if State and City Inspectors and Police Departments were empowered to report to the Feds employers who are exploiting illegals.
Bank Robbery is a Federal Crime but local law enforcement is the first line of prevention.
Until we get everbody involved nothing will be done |
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Hugh,
Is it not completely obvious that if we legalize 12-20 million illegals on the grounds that we can't enforce our laws, that we will create a huge incentive for more illegals to come in. Is it not also obvious that we are not enforcing the laws we have in place. Then how in the world, Hugh, can you accept the basic premise of this bill, which is to provide immediate legal status to 12-20 million, on the promise that we will enforce some complex set of regulations in the future.
This is not about immigration, in the sense of high levels of legal immigration under standards that are democratically defined. I support that. What this is about is an elite that refuses to enforce our laws because it benefits their financial or political interests. It is also about extraordinarily poor leadership, which threatens to gravely damage our country. This bill can't be fixed with a few amendments, Hugh, because of the problems with its basic premises. The proper policy is painfully obvious, we must demonstrate, i.e. prove as a fact on the ground, that we can enforce our borders before we can consider other immigration policy changes.
This is not a minor policy difference. This debate is a defining moment. The Republican party, of which I have been a very strong supporter, is badly damaging itself by having a leadership which is supporting this travesty. I think you are making a serious mistake in judgment by accepting the position that this bill can be corrected by a few amendments. I would ask you to address the problems with the central premises of the immigration bill and embrace a stronger position on the need to prove enforcement before other policy changes. |
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jonb, Senators are generally elected for life here (ie Strom). Foghorn Leghorn Hollings would still be in the Senate if the dementia hadn't become obvious. I hope that Opie's antics will draw a challenger. Regardless, I will vote for his opponent. Graham ran as a conservative. No more RINO's that sabotage the effort. |
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Who will consider challenging Graham in the '08 Rep primary?
We've got to get him outta there. |
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This is the wrong time to do a comprehensive immigration bill, even if some conservative amendendments are added.
Kyl and other so called conservatives are going to destroy the Rep Party. There is no trust on enforcement by large parts of Indies, Reps and Dems.
It does not matter what you promise. There has to be performance first. If you do not get that message then you need to resign and we will get real representatives.
Let this bill die. If there is very serious enforcement for the next year or so, then come back with another bill with enforcement provisions after the nomination. |
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Doesn't look very promising for the Washington elite, does it? This bill should be abandoned for a number of reasons.
1. Laws don't appear to matter any more.
2. Some pigs are NOT more equal than others.
3. Never accept the jam-down.
4. Doing something stupid is not better than doing nothing.
I know Senator Kyl has been good on judges, but McCain has been terrible. And Kyl gets in bed with McCain? I no trust him or any of the congress critters.
I'm from SC, and the best thing about this trai wreck is that I know how I will vote in the 2008 senate election - anyone who run against Opie Graham. |
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Ken -
They are trying to fix the plumbing in the old house.
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Deedee, Let me sum up your plan in one word....
AMNESTY!
Sorry, we've already tried that -- It Doesn't Work! |
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First year: Government must do two things. #1 Build fence. #2 Government sets up program to register all illegals.
Second year: All illegals on notice to come forward and register within following 6 months. They Receive Z visa in return which conveys temporary status, period, NOTHING else, except exemption from immediate deportation. Illegals are informed to bring their papers, including W-2's, tax receipts, drivers licenses, all documents, fake or not, whatever they have. Government begins background checks, fingerprints, etc. Temporary Z visas cost $500 per person.
Third year: Three things happen. Government begins issuing PERMANENT Z visas to everyone who has passed background check. Employers are required to employ only people with Z visas. Everyone else is reported and deported. Employers who fail to do so are subject to $100,000 fine per illegal. Permanent Z visas cost $2,000 per person.
Fifth year: Z visa holders eligible to apply for citizenship. At this point, certain benefits are given to applicants, including credit for SS paid while temporary Z visa holder. Citizenship application costs $3,000.
Sixth year: Citzenship is granted and full citizenship benefits begin.
This does not address a temporary worker program, ag program, etc. which is handled separately.
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If you want to talk to some real "nativist" try saying your a Texan when your not!
I'm very saddened and highly pissed to read Hugh and Kyle's interview. Hugh, if your only objections to the bill are of the con law variety then put down the pipe and slowly walk away. Senator Kyle, if you are crawling into McCain's pants to work with Senator Graham, then you are a lost cause.
There are 12 - 20 million illegals in this country. What to do? I don't know. I don't have the answers. Something must be done and whatever it is will highly enrage a large portion of the American people. What I do know, and what the majority of people who called and e-mailed you Senator Kyle know, is that whatever you do is POINTLESS, COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY POINTLESS, if we do not control our borders first. Do not tell me about triggers. Do not tell me what you are going to do to control the invasion from the south. You have ZERO credibility. NONE. We do not believe you. You are lying to us again.
Stop the flow FIRST. Enforce some of the law FIRST. Send down the Army. the National Guard, The Minute Men, the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, the Texas A&M Corp of Cadets, anybody, anything.... Please prove to us you are serious. Don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining. And for some reason my leg has been very warm and wet here lately. |
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There simply isn't enough lipstick to make this pig attractive. Kill it! Start over! First a fence and enforcement of existing laws. Then find and deport ALL the criminals. Then we can start talking about issues such as assimilation or guest workers or increased levels of migration. BUT NOT BEFORE!! We seem to have succeeded in electing a congress composed of the densest, most self-important, and most arrogant bastards ever assembled. They are completely deaf and blind. Shame on them. SHAME ON US!! |
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Doug, I hear amnesty sympathizers like you throw out the old, "We can't deport 'em all" statement of resignation. True, we can't deport them all, but we also can't solve every murder, imprison every felon, or prevent every drunk driver; but does that mean that we simply make these activities legal? Either our laws mean something or they don't. Amnesty will only encourage the next wave of illegals -- fence or not. One step at a time with a true purpose and we can winnow down the illegals to a manageable level.
Rather than relying primarily on deportation we need to incentivize the illegals to repatriate themselves? How does Mexico and other 3rd World cesspools encourage the migration of its poorest most desperate citizens? It simply offers them few if any jobs, opportunities, and freebies. We need to mimic the same situation here in the United States coupled with the threat of deportation upon running afoul of our law for issues large and small. No jobs, no opportunities, no freebies, and a true constant threat of deportation and Jose will probably decide that Tijuana wasn't so bad after all. |
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George W. Bush ain't a Texan.
He's a carpet bagger. A CT country club wasp who just happens to fake an accent, buy a non-fuctioning, photo-op ranch and wear sissy boy boots.
Only one way to be a Texan: that's to have been BORN here. |
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I SHOULD have written "Domestic," not "Foreign" above, as in:
As you so cleverly put it, Bush is now looking for a DOMESTIC policy "win" on "comprehensive immigration reform"(sic) that stands to ruin America forever -- and he has shown himself willing to break with and to belittle his own base in order to get it.
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Reply to Dan:
Your analysis of Bush's (and Rice's, Gates's) galaxy of foreign policy failures is right on target.
When the going got tough in Iraq, Bush immorally handcuffed our troops with overly-restrictive Rules of Engagement and permitted the military to run numerous court martial trials of our own troops.
The Iranians and Chinese and Russians and North Koreans and Syria and Hezbollah all smell Bush's fear and are on offense.
As you so cleverly put it, Bush is now looking for a foreign policy "win" on "comprehensive immigration reform"(sic) that stands to ruin America forever -- and he has shown himself willing to break with and to belittle his own base in order to get it.
I do not advocate hating Bush, but I think we are required to loathe his harmful policies, both foreign and domestic. He seems to be out of control: I do not know this man. (And to think I actually voted for him!)
I do hope that we can defeat him on his almost pathological obsession to open our borders to illegals.
We ought to nickname his proposed bill "AMCE" ("Any Mexican Can Enter").
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Remember, Bush allowed Kennedy to write a bill that Bush went out there and boasted was education "reform."
In foreign policy, Bush has turned away from his goal of pushing democracy in the Mideast, and he's embraced a Baker's view of "stability and realism."
Go read Caroline Glick's latest column.
He's not just selling the base down the river.
He's now pressuring the Israelis to fork over the Golan Heights, ALL IN THE VAIN attempt to separate Syria from Iran. The deal is that Syria gets back the Golan, and they give the Israelis promises not to support Hamas, Hezbollah and the Palestinian terror groups. Moreover Syria is to separate itself from Iran.
That's the deal.
And how do you think that deal is going to fly in Israel?
Bush is betraying so many people, in so many places, on so many issues, that it's difficult to keep track of all of it.
He betrayed the JAPANESE too, they didn't want him to capitulate in regards to North Korea. They were livid.
Well they can get in line, somewhere behind the base of the GOP, somewhere behind the Israelis, somewhere behind the Iraqis, who he's looking to deliver over to the Iranians.
Good God!
The guy has become the worst President in American history, and all in a single term.
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When I say Harry Reid sobbing about a Mexican girl who was illegal, it reminded me that too many in congress and in our PC culture has lost sight of ball. Our laws and policies, immigration and other, must be for the benefit of America. We cannot be offering up our own citizens and our posterity on the altar of misplace compassion.
Alms for the poor are offer from one's own substance...not the from the taxes of others. |
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If you want judge the seriousness of any immigration bill determine the provisions made for accommodating deportees & detainees. That is where the rubber meets the road. |
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(Keep-it-simple-stupid)
Proponents of the law including "Presidente Bushe" state it is not amnesty "because the illegals pay a fine."
Translation: you break into my house, you steal my TV, you pay a fine so there is not a pardon for your crime of B&E.
Except to be accurate and fitting; under the new immigration law, after paying the fine you get to keep my TV for your own personal use, and I am to forget my jimmied door.
How stupid do they really believe we are?
KIL THE BILL
KILL THE BILL
KILL THE BILL |
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The only thing that's going to pacify the Conservative base is A FENCE FIRST!
It's not just a slogan, it's the only way to fix the problem. If there's still zillions coming over every year what good does it do to try to legalize the ones already here? It's an endless suppy. The government can't track them now, how would they with 12 million more and another million coming over every year? They have no plans on actually enforcing all those bs regulations.
The Republicans that support this are going to get absolutely toasted in the next primary season. Somehow they must not realize how pissed off we really are. Lindsey Graham needs to be run out of SC on a rail and Jon Kyl, whom I used to like, is risking his career on this dog of a bill also.
Putting perfume on this pig of a bill won't help, it needs a stake through it's pathetic heart. |
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LBJ had a thing for solutions, TEXAN sized solutions.
RFK resisted the Great Society programs. For the simple reason that most of them were untested and untried. He wanted small scale programs that would allow for study. Successes would be expanded upon. Failures would be learned from.
JFK too favoured that approach. Which is why JFK didn't launch a Great Society program.
It fell to a Texan to do that.
The idea behind it of course was OK. We're going to help the poor move into the economic mainstream. The economy at the time was booming, and it seemed the sky was the limit.
So when the programs were proposed to LBJ, he demanded more, more of everything, bigger, greater, vaster. And it all had to be done in a hurry. Most of the programs that he pushed through the liberals of the JFK administration knew that they didn't have a clue how they would turn out.
But spurred on by his fixation with Texas sized solutions, and buoyed by the example of FDR, LBJ went forward with the Great Society, which spelled the doom of what STEVE HAYWARD calls the old liberal order.
Now we have a new Texan President.
His foreign policy rhetoric is as high and wide as a prairie sky of Texas.
But he's been backing away from the clear import of his rhetoric ever since his reelection.
HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY RECALL how soaring his second inaugural speech was?
My point is that we've got a guy DETERMINED to make a domestic splash that offsets an imminent foreign policy disaster.
Bush, Condi, Gates, the Europeans, the UNSC have concluded that they're going to allow the Iranians to go nuke because taking them on would be too messy, too difficult.
THAT'S why he's installing surface to air batteries in Southeastern Europe.
IF HE WAS DETERMINED to take out those threats to our national security, as he repeatedly promised, then there wouldn't be any need for those surface to air batteries. They would be a superfluous.
So they're soon going to give up on the surge, and they're allowing Iran to go nuke.
Which means that for his legacy to even be mixed, HE NEEDS, DESPERATELY NEEDS SOME HUGE, SOME GIGANTIC, SOME TEXAN sized domestic achievement.
AND HE'S FIXATED on immigration.
HE'S COMING BACK TO IT.
And that means all of us are going to have to be ready to renew the battle with MORE DETERMINATION, MORE SAVVY, MORE RUTHLESSNESS.
JIMMY CARTER never allowed the Iranians to go nuke. He didn't have 25 years of ayatollah history to tell him that allowing the Shah to fall was a bad idea. Many at the time said the Ayatollah represented a liberal, progressive option in lieu of the Shah. They were wrong. But there wasn't a track record for Carter to judge.
BUSH has no such excuse.
And yet, he's allowing them to go nuke.
This weekend the Israelis are effectively presenting a deadline. They want immediate action to stop that Manhattan Project.
Bush is useless.
Condi has proven herself a fraud, as I knew she would.
Gates wants to talk to the Iranians, he believes in the grand bargain too.
Pace, who wants to fight, he's got to go.
The new Admiral in charge of Central Command is another who is determined to talk to the Iranians.
The entire Bush foreign policy, from North Korea, to Venezuela, to Iraq and Iran is collapsing into incoherence.
And all of the effort behind Abbas in Palestine is also been proven to have been folly.
So what's left?
Domestic affairs.
And what does Bush have a chance for? Immigration!
He's coming back to it.
And he must be stopped. |
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I liked it when I thought we were on the road to victory when the Senate passed the bill back then. We were told the fence would be built and the illegals would be deported.
Since then I have noticed more and more illegals taking over the towns I was raised in.
Now there is an overburdening influx of immigrants, and lo and behold, Kennedy and Bush say that there is no way to stop them from coming in! Yow! If they knew this all these years, why didn't they find a way of stopping ll this?
Now their simple solution is to stop calling their compromise amnesty and give them the jobs they so rightfully deserve. In other words screw you stupid hard working slobs, let us decide what you really need. Give everyone amnesty and forget about it.
They say there is no way of enforcing the '86 bill? Why didn't the question come up after it was passed that there is no way to track them?
Why don't we just tack on any amendments we need to enforce the old bill? KISS would be the answer. Boy what good Legislators we have! Pass half a bill and lets get on with another. What a joke Kennedy is. How long before they kick that old murderer out of office? Remember Mary Jo Kopeckne, please |
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Sammy, however, it won't happen the way you're suggesting. First, repeal that part of the 14th Amendment that provides for "Anchor Babies," perhaps something like qualifying that 1st sentence in Section 1, 14th Amendment to allow natural born citizens only when one of more of the parents is already a citizen; on a go forward basis; Congress is not yet up to passing that amendment and sending it to the States.
However, what are we to do with all the current crop of illegals? Too darn many to deport all and that's never going to happen; nor should it!
My opinion is that we need to regularize these illegals, both those who only want to work her and those wanting to become citizens. Those wanting citizens will have a different path then those only wanting to work here; both can be provided for but Kennedy's proposed bill doesn't distinguish between them effectively.
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Tell the RNC when they call for contributions: "No fence, no funds. And NO AMNESTY.
I have watched a wonderful woman, naturalized several years ago, who is still trying LEGALLY to bring her children to the US. They can't even get a green card, but folks who break the law "earn" a "path to citizenship"? Sorry, it's a deal I'm not buying into. |
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Senators DeMint and Sessions were the key players in getting this destructive piece of legislation killed. So, whom does Hewitt give top billing on his show the next day, but Senator Kyl, the Quisling who cashiered his long-held "true conservative" credentials by becoming Ted Kennedy's "boy" to get this bill passed on the grounds that he "could not sit back and do nothing." Right.
I no longer trust Kyl any further than I can throw him. And, as for Hewitt, what a quisling blowhard! It is as though he is dipping his hands into the toilet bowl to salvage this piece of fecal matter of a bill before it is flushed down as it deserves to be. Oh, and, Hugh? "Regularization?" Talk about a euphemism! |
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What is the use in revamping an original piece of trash? Throw it away and start over. They must have a hellovalot riding on it...and none of it for the benefit of American sovereignty... |
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oh well, we confused cessation of hostilities for victory. |
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Bush is determined to destroy the Republican party. With out a doubt, he has surpassed Jimmy Carter as the worst President in my lifetime. This is the way Rove and Bush look at this. Clinton took on the base of his party over welfare reform and now Bush is going to take on the GOP over immigration. But the American people wanted welfare reform, they don't want to amnesty for illegal aliens. Bush thinks he's going to be viewed as the Abe Lincoln of Mexicans. He freed the Mexicans. The man is an empty suit. And his enablers like Hugh Miers Hewitt are as bad if not worse. |
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Un Memento:
"it hasn't been decided whether to build a three story mansion in the country or a single story condomineum in the city and your crying because the details haven't been worked out on the plumbing."
I dunno.... the last house our friends in the Senate built didn't have any plumbing. Maybe they should fix the old house first, no? |
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This bill is a pig and there is no amount of makeup or lipstick that can dress it up to my satisfaction.
I will cast my lot with those who say build the fence and then write a new bill. This bill sucks. I can not put it any more succinctly than that. |
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Hugh had him on the show about two weeks ago. He didn't get it then;he doesn't get it now? What OLIGARCHY owns these guys?(His SMART GUY duo sounded just as lame.)The bill...as written in totus)is infuriatingly offensive.PARAGRAPH 601(re Z-visas)is a disaster and probably(as Hugh would
know)a priori UNCONSTITUTIONAL(violating substantive precedents;& stare decisis procedural protocols).The rest is silence?
Not quite:Hillary now has another piece of Quasimodo(SANCTUARY!SANCTUARY much!)dreck to rally envious anti-American masses to her Lady Macbeth feast of the Beast. Tank this bill. It is irredeemable.And perhaps are the pseudo-legates that supported it.
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I have never heard as much crying from a conservative talk show host as I have heard from Hugh Hewitt in the past two weeks. Hugh, you sound worse than a liberal.
If I can make an analogy, it hasn't been decided whether to build a three story mansion in the country or a single story condomineum in the city and your crying because the details haven't been worked out on the plumbing.
Call me crazy, but I do have confidence in Senator Kyl and President Bush. I say give them and the immigration bill a chance.
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Urge them NOT to cave to the R leadership.
DeMint and Sessions need to make sure that the process does not continue to be fast-tracked.
We need them to insist that ANY immigration proposal should only be developed by following regular processes - committee hearings, cost analyses, etc. Slow this down so every detail can be exposed.
DeMint and Sessions must not go along with the demands for a final list of amendments to the current bill.
If the leadership wants something, they must start from scratch!
Encourage DeMint, Sessions and Cornyn to stand their ground and slow this down. |
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Hugh:
Nice try. I think I'll pass on Comprehensive Amnesty Reform.
Hopefully, the political damage has begun to sink in with these guys. I doubt if most want to end their political careers prematurely by continuing into the abyss.
The President, unfortunately, has been shown to be an inarticulate incompetent. I am sure everyone will be polite. They will dismiss him as easily as he dismissed his supporters.
He will have a lonely 1 1/2 years
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Don't you understand? This bill should be dead! Dead! Dead!
Regularize? Why? If you regularize Mexicans, you will have to regularize all nationalities - equal protection and all that - I am not the Constitutional Scholar that Hugh is, but I could make a very good case for a terrorist in waiting with no criminal background to get the same rights(regularization) as a Mexican. "Regularization" without going back to home country to get a background check is Amnesty
Pass a bill to build the fence and increase INS agents. Enforce existing laws with employers - when you do that, the good guys will self deport. AFTER you do that, increase the number of guest workers from Central America and give them a tamper proof id. The only illegals will then be the bad guys and we can round them up at will.
WE are not xenophobes - I know several families of probably illegal status that I will gladly vouch for and welcome to this country with open arms a number of them - but we have to do it in such a way that there is a screening and we keep out the criminals and terrorists - it can be done with compassion and with security - but 24 hours is not enough time to do it and it has to be applied for from home country - it would cost most less than 5000 to pull that off.
If this bill rises from the dead we shall kill it again - and we'll take all that voted for it with it. |
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Maybe Hugh could explain why Simpson/Mazzoli should NOT be enforced. |
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Senators are a disgrace. I am just thankful Jeff Sessions and a few others were around to help fight back against this gosh awful bill.
Now the question is will the American public be ready for battle when round two comes around? I'm afraid with a few tweaks enough RINO's (see Hugh) will approve of the bill and then they'll lead the beatdown informing we conservatives to cool our jets.
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Yep, I was ticked, now I'm enraged. |
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they be so stupid not to at least try to cap some of this crap. I'm noy saying I like the bill at all, but as a salesman, this is just stupid. What if there are 40 million? Why not have to show paid taxes for 5 years to be here? Stuff like this would at least made me think the Republicans actually tried to do something. Besides the point system, what did they actually accomplish? The Dem's want them all in now, because when they control everything in 4 years, they'll just ammend everything to allow them citizenship as a hardship. The lack of fight in these men is what shows that they are sell out. They have no interest in the nation, just their little pulpit. I hate Dem's, but God damn, they never get beaten without a big fight. If it weren't for Sessions, Demint, and Coburn this would have been the fastest bill to pass the Senate in history. I hope Demint just filabusters. Listening to Kyl just makes me sad that the party has selected such awful representation. |
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Our Senators would have to be smoking the Rock Pipe to vote for ANY Illegal Alien Bill written by Ted Kennedy. That guy has been writing these things sense 1965 and can not get it right.
We are told Gas Prices are high because we do not have enough for America's needs.
We ca not water our lawns because we do not have enough water for Americans needs.
Electric Bills are three times higher then what they were ten years ago and we are told there is not enough electric for Americans.
We are told there is not enough housing for Americans.
But this is the land of plenty when we are told about absorbing 12 to 20 million Illegal Aliens?
And those with Z-Visa's go to the back of the line? So we are letting more Immigrants in before the 12 to 20 million with Z-Visa's?
Will Mexico be happy with California, New Mexico, Texas and Arizona. Or will they want the entire Burrito?
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works on the bill I'm not in favor of it.
Nice to put the man who calls us bigots back to work.
Perhaps if Sessions and DeMint were in charge of drafting the bill it might have a chance.
But if Kennedy-Kyl-Martinez-Graham are still running the show?
How naive does he think we are? |
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"To bring back a bill with only cosmetic changes will enrage the GOP base far beyond where they already were when their complaints were perceived as being ignored."
I am very disappointed with the failure of the major candidates to step up and run against the establishment. A major blown opportunity and a signal that the big three/four are also in the back pocket of the establishment money. I even heard David Brooks commenting that the "silent majority" who support this bill didn't have time or ability to make themselves heard (hunh?). The political class is insanely determined to get this bill passed before the end of the summer.
I AM PISSED BEYOND DESCRIPTION. How arrogant are these people. And Hugh, what is wrong with you? You made great slam dunk case for spiking this bill. Why can't you eat your own cooking? Just how wedded to the establishment are you? ANY bill would be a big mistake. We just don't trust this government and insist on having an election, having the wall built and rigorous enforcement of current laws well underway before even thinking about discussing immigration reform. You are absolutely right about the base getting even more upset. You have no idea. |
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SECURE the BORDER FIRST !!! No amnesty for any illegal alien !! |
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hugh,
a very simple question and a very simple idea.
why don't we narrow our approach on the radio etc to demanding that we build the 854 miles of already funded and approved fencing? duncan hunter said last night on tv that the whole fence could be built in 6 months if congress and the pres wanted. he also said the government is clearly not serious about enforcement having only built 11 miles of that fence.
the simple idea? after the fence above is completed millions of citizens like myself will have a renewed confidence in the government to keep its word. then and only then does any comprehensive immigration agreement start to kick in. while the fence is being constructed bush, the senate and house can wrangle with the details of a bill that most of us can live with.
failing that, the only thing i'm certain of is a well crafted immigration plan put out by a presidential candidate could easily lead to the white house. |
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Doug, why should we start regularization after the border fence is started? If we don't want the would be illegals then why would we want the already illegals. Why do the current crop of illegals deserve "regularization" (God, I hate that sanitized word for amnesty) just because a fence is suddenly along our border. The cost to our schools, hospitals, and social welfare programs are still the same. The threat to our language, heritage, and culture still remains. The copiously produced anchor babies will still be filling up our hospitals and overpopulating our country.
Build the fence, enforce workplace laws and let most of the illegals return home due to lack of jobs, money, and opportunity. What's so difficult about that? |
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Then and only then should immigration regularization be started. To enact the originally proposed 2007 Kennedy Bill would be Simpson-Mazzoli all over again.
No rational person is proposing deporting all of the current illegals but border enforcement will cut down on those numbers. The purpose should be to avoid another illegal immigrant flood like what happened after 1986.
Lastly, not all of the illegals want to become citizens but do want to be here to work without fear of ICE deporting them. That can be done and still allow for legalization of those wanting to come here to work.
The path to citizenship needs to remain a legal and morally acceptable process. My question is whether Congress knows how to accomplish that?
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BORDER SECURITY FIRST!!!! |
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We've totally lost him to Beltway-itis. He's gone the way of Trent Lott and Lindsey Graham. What a completely clueless loser. I wish him a pleasant retirement because that is the only way we will have a chance at keeping that seat 5 years from now.
I would laugh if it wasn't so INFURIATING... but he actually spoke of eventually building 350 miles of fence as if that would be a big accomplishment. THAT'S NOT EVEN HALF OF WHAT WE WERE ALREADY PROMISED LAST YEAR! AND YOU WONDER WHY WE DON'T TRUST ANY OF THEM?!?!?!
Meanwhile the amnesty will attract more and more people to keep coming through the gaping holes in the border that will STILL be there.
Hugh, you are suffering the DC disease, too, if you think Kyl is going to get anything close to what would be necessary to make this a good bill. I am pro-LEGAL immigration like you, but I cannot stomach ANY discussion of reviving this bill. TOO MUCH WRONG that won't get fixed.
Give me the fence and the manpower to secure it. Fulfill that promise. ONLY AFTER IT IS ACTUALLY THERE will I consider other reforms.
Republicans like these are why we are and will continue to be in the minority.
Continuing to seethe with pure contempt... |
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Kly's appearance on Hugh's show was terrible. He is useless on this issue. He just wants to pass a bill. He wanted to pass the initial bill with no amendments.
Hugh's "countries of special interest" illegal's which have to receive an affirmative clearance is not workable with 12-20 million illegal aliens. All by definition have absolutely no documentation.
Still waiting to hear how Hugh determines someones background if they say "my name is John Smith." "I've been in your country working hard for 10 years." "Here are the fake documents I"ve been using." How does Hugh run a background check on this person? Are they from Syria, Iran or Guatemala? How will Hugh be sorting out potential Jihadist from countries of interest out of the 12-20million people? Go by the name they give you? Color of skin? How do you clear someone who has no record/documentation?
Hugh will eventually read the same bill with a couple of sentences changes and tell everyone it is good to go.
Hugh will in time say we must support Kyl and the GOP.
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..."critics of the draft bill who, like me, are not opposed to regularization of most of the illegals in the country..."
Um sorry Hugh, you clearly don't speak for me. By acceding to YOUR cosmetic changes it is STILL AMNESTY! Hugh, are you willing to pay my portion of the $2.6 trillion dollar cost of "regularizing"? |
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Doesn't he realize the Senate is untrustworthy?
Tell him, adios, until the borders is/are sealed and we know who is invading us. |
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Low skill workers and their employers taking the place of GM in owning the Senate.
Unfortunately, what is good for them is not good for America.
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I'm enraged just thinking that they are going to come back with the "son of Amnesty bill". Is it too much to ask that the Feds enforce the laws already on the books? Apparently it is so I'm going to oppose anything else they come up with. I want to SEE a border barrier and I want to see obsconders deported and gang members and overstayer and the rest of the clowns gone. Then, I'm willing to see with these overpaid, arrogant, elitists have to say in a bill. Until then, they are all asshats. |
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Senator Kyl said that he was working with Lindsey Graham to improve the enforcement provisions of the bill. That inspires confidence. Kill this already. |
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