The Bail Out that Bush and Obama agreed to?
We need to be concerned about the corruption of Obama's retreads'.
Rubin, was on the Board of Dir of Citi Bank, now he wants to give them money.
Richardson, was the bag man for giving China top tech secrets.
We haven't seen the real illegal potus and his neo marxist as yet. They still want to "spread the wealth".
What you see and what Obama actually does is two different things. To suggest that his phoney fronts are right wing is looney |
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even when there are no shells. |
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are not mutually exclusive.
This will be the hallmark of the Obama presidency.
And when Hugh refers to "the folks who actually know how the markets work," who could he possibly be thinking of at this point?
2008 was a year in which only the most pessimistic got it right.
The ones who recognized that the anything-goes-for-a-buck animal spirits were sewing the seeds of cataclysm.
The ones who recognized that the hunger for global conquest was bleeding us dry.
Not Hugh's kind of "folks" at all. |
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if he thinks that guys like Robert Rubin are freemarketeers. Paulson and Rubin are lifelong Democrats who, along with Jon Corzine, were all partners in Goldman Sachs. These men do not now, or have they ever believed in free enterprise. They believe in a government directed economy that rewards the "right kind of people", the kind with Harvard MBAs and powerful political contacts.
They are technocrats who think that the economy must be governed by the Wise Men of Wall Street instead of the judgment of entrepreneurs and their customers. The made their money through political connections and cannot even conceive of how men like Henry Ford and Thomas Edison created entire industries through spectacular innovation and dedication.
In the 1930's they would have been admirers of Mussolini, as most of Roosevelt's "brain trust" were. The Paulson-Bernanke-Rubin axis is pushing the same policies that kept American mired in the Great Depression: more government control, more government public works and greater regulation of the individual.
We would be better off if Obama chose real socialists. At least they wouldn't be pretending to be freemarketeers thereby letting the market take the fall for the future failure of their own interventionist policies. |
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You guys are so immersed in your dogma that you could not see that Dems have become, over the decades, pro-business and pro-markets. The claims that we were "socialist" only reflected how vacuous and insipid your arguments have become.
Now it is time for YOU to go to the wilderness. Conservatism is in a very bad way. You did that. Fix it. Make it intellectually respectable again. Make it non-emotional and non-pathological. Fix it. |
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or keep losing elections. You are in a state of disgrace right now because America saw how you governed. And your governance reflected a philosophy that is wholey mis-conceived and ill thought-out. |
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What people need to remember is Clinton and his team had NOTHING to with the 90s expansion. When Clinton came to office we were right in the middle of a perfect economic cycle. There was a PC, cell phone, Internet, Pharma and Biotech boom. Clinton did nothing to create this boom. In fact Clinton raised taxes and had many opportunities to cut taxes. If Clinton's tax increases caused such a wonderful economy, how come when Bush inherited the tech recession all that was discussed was tax cuts to fix the economy?
Bush inherited a tech bubble and the first thing he did was cut taxes to get us out of the recession. The tax cuts worked. The economy recovered.
Obama is inheriting a housing and financial bubble that has burst. The leftovers from the Clinton era have no idea how to fix this problem. Rubin is perhaps the most overrated Treasury Secretary EVER! He left right before the tech bubble burst so the blood would not be on his hands. Look at his record at Citigroup! Citigroup was a $50 stock when he came in and it now trades at $6 (and has been as low as $3). It may be a step in the right direction that they are not going to raise taxes right away. However, if they let the Bush tax cuts expire in 2011, it will be disastrous.
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Other than their fat resumes that connect them to one another and to the DC-Wall Street axis of Clinton-Rubin what is so impressive about Obama's team? They are connected to the current crisis at every stage of its development over the last fifteen years. Whether they were in government, academia, think tanks, or Wall Street these folks want to deal with the fallout from the policy decisions they made/supported with additional federal spending backed by more borrowed or printed money.
Underwater homeowners, domestic auto manufacturers, defunct airlines, etc are learning you can not borrow your way to prosperity with loans you can not afford to repay why in the world should we support Obama's financial advisors who want to do the same thing with America's financial stability? |
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"GOP should be worried that the president-elect intends to talk left and govern right."
Then, after eight years of talking right and governing left, the GOP is dead.
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11 Trillion dollars in debt and no way to pay it off....I dont care who is in office, read this article from Drudge and you will be very nervous...
http://www.drudgereport.com/flashrur.htm |
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let's try this: Hugh and TH are always right and bright and true.
Hope this one stays. I apologize for disagreeing with y'all. |
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So why would Obama pick old Clinton hacks and people who were in charge of biz that failed?
So much for change.
Someone pass the popcorn please.
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I'm a conservative Republican. It irritates me that the tone of this article seems to imply that we want the Obama administration to fail. I want them to succeed, I want to be able to sell my house. Partisanship at the expense of the country disgusts me. |
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The econ credentials of these people are the credentials of the math wiz lacking understanding.
In the words of the AEA committee on graduate education, they are idiot savants, they are very good at math (compared to other economists, not compared to real mathematicians), but using, say Hayek, as a base line for understanding economics, these people LACK understanding when it comes to economics.
These people are impressive the way a pretend doctor is impressive -- the wonder is how they have fooled everyone for so long.
Bernanke is a great representative of the breed. He gave the mathematical cover for the current artificial boom and inevitable bust. The call him the "smartest man in the room". He's the smartest man in the room in the same way an idiot savant is the smartest man in the room. It's all smoke and mirrors mathematics -- with NO understanding (again, using say Hayek as a baseline.)
Obama has filled his economic team with this type. |
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To put these extremely large figures into some understandble context, a trillion seconds is 31,688 years. Since 7.4 trillion bailout dollars is being bandied about, that is equivalent to 234,491 years.
The government is broke! The states are broke! The cities are broke! The towns are broke! The citizens (who pay taxes) are broke! Who pays the bills? |
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"You guys are so immersed in your dogma that you could not see that Dems have become, over the decades, pro-business and pro-markets."
Um, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA! Whew, let me catch my breath for a second......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....UH, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Oh wow. I mean, wow.
Please oh wise one, point out the D policies which are so pro business, pro free markets. Please make me laugh again, that felt good.
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95% of politicians in Wash aren't interested in fixing our economy nor do they know how to fix it. I think it's obvious that the only thing they are interested in is keeping their jobs and getting whatever they can for themselves. The few that have enough integrity to actually try to do their jobs and buck the system can NEVER get anything done. I truly believe that our system in Washington is broken and can NEVER be fixed again. When the people that make all the rules BREAK all the rules and are never held accountable, how can you fix something? What would it take to actually fix Washington? Certainly not Obama with his Clinton appointees and "change" which is only a free for all for how much money he can give out to his buddies. |
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they deleted my other pertinent comments but I'll ask ye again: what happened to the Change? Obama went back and got advanced aged caucasion people from the Clinton administration. Doesn't this irritate and dismay persons of color who like to advance their peoples' interests like the musical artist Ludacrisp and the two well respected activists Ministers Farakhan and Jackson? And do not those people who are caucasion and feel a bit guilty about their positions in our society feel as if they have been deceived as well? |
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you must be conflicted. You want Obama to fail sooooo much. You want him to be the target of impeachment proceedings, just like you did with Clinton, and the far lefties tried to do with Bush. But an Obama failure means our country is truly, truly down the toilet.
Obama is the future. He is going to radically change how we look at government (gosh, that must really anger the right...he's going to influence a couple of generations of citizens that government is for all of us, not just for the few who profit from it), and all you've got is Huckabee (was he scary or what with Hugh yesterday) and Palin. Mitt Romney is kind of fried because the Prop 8 backlash against Mormons combined with the fundy Christians who think the Mormons are even nuttier than they are and fear them.
So, the GOP has no leader, no ideas. And we have Barack Obama, what a wonderful world this will be. |
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to all those Republican voters who stayed loyal to the Party, this econ team is not a communist party team ergo your supposition that we should all be afraid of Mr. Obama because he is the mythical creature known as the Bogeyman rings false. I spoke to you of this beforehand and I am correct. What new strategy will you implement to defeat the Democratic Party which has lots of liberals in it now that Mr. Obama has shown that he is no worse than Mr. Clinton? |
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"hey, what happened to my comments?"
The same thing that happened to mine. They got dumped and maybe for the same reason yours did. They made too much sense for the logic challenged, but it could simply be a case of this DARPA era application TH insists on using lost them, instead of upgrading this crap. |
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As usual Spengler is enlightening on the matter. See "Obama's one trick wizards": http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JK25Dj06.html |
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"....the GOP should be worried that the president-elect intends to talk left and govern right....."
I hope and pray that he talks left and governs right. Otherwise we have no chance of coming out of this recession anytime soon.
Now let's get the housing market stabilized and stop throwing money away by giving it to the fat cats at AIG and the Banks. |
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saying come the next budget, he's going to go over it line to line and remove any waste?
It's called line item vote that the dem's never wanted it, plus the courts have said no to.
Gezzz you dem's said Obama was so smart and he doesn't even know this! LOL |
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Mr. Hewitt and other pundits are measuring Obama against their fear-driven standard and feeling relief. Well, that's just what Obama wants. Besides, Clinton-redux is "impressive"? Grow up, pay attention. This isn't where the Obama's Leftism will make its beachhead, not now. He's not stupid. He needs two terms to "fundamentally change" America, and can't afford to indulge economic Marxism in his first six months, or even two years.
No, look to the culture. Look to the courts. Above all look to the control and suppression of dissent. This is where it begins. |
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BO hasn't shown us anything yet, let alone if he is "worse" or "better" than Clinton. I'm not optimistic because of world events and the legislative being controlled by Pelosi/Reid, but how about we see what he actually does before evaluation? Talking about his cabinet choices isn't actually doing anything.
Everyone seems in such a hurry to define the guy, which I attribute to his lack of actual achievement. This seems to continually promote a sort of reactionary projectionism upon him, both pro and con. Amazing such an unknown quantity will hold the most powerful position on earth.
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Your tired partisan negativity sounds so very several-months-ago. If you notice what the likes of Mr. Kudlow have written - Obama's ecoomic team choices could easily have served in Republican administrations. I also applaud Hugh for his willingness to look out for what's best for the country. Once we get markets/credit flowing again there will be plenty of time for partisan tussles. As Hugh and others almost across the board have pointed out, the moves Obama has made have inspired confidence. Granted, he's not president yet but to the extent that he is, so far so good. |
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to not have Reading Comprehension. If you'll notice, I was addressing the Repub Loyalists who tried to tell us the world was ending if Obama got elected. So actually, I am deriding Partisanship.
So far, he's gone back to the future with the Clintonites. The world did not end then either.
Settle down, honey. |
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Hugh is wrong again. it is just such a time like this that new things, like cap and trade, should be started. |
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I'm sad to say you are correct. The workers and people who are losing their jobs and everything they own including their houses are being ground up. We all should do whatever, no matter how little, to rectify this situation. This minority/majority thing sucks. We are all Americans. A Russian today predicted the breakup of the United States. We cannot let this happen under any circumstances. |
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Sure, let's make questionable multi-billion dollar government loans to companies, then add a multi-billion dollar tax burden on those same companies. You know, so the government can hedge their bets so to speak. Let's also be sure to time it to happen in a severe economic downturn. Brilliant.
Please stick to commentary on items which you have some concept, like president elect signage color schemes and proper medication dosage.
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You're using a lot of leftist hyperbole and talking about class warfare, but what are you proposing the "solution" be? Railing against "corporate welfare" seems a bit disingenuous seeing as how the D's control both houses right now. |
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My side is conservatism NOT Republicanism. I am no longer with the Stupid Party. I did not vote for McCain.
Explain this to me: did Obama or did he not repeatedly get the groupies to chant "Change, Change, Change. Change of fools"? and "Yes we can?"
Now, tell me what is different about his choices so far?
Basically, I am saying that those who voted for Obama because they actually believed the sun would set in the East this time are suckers. No offense. |
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I'm tired of seeing it dwindle....
I don't care who helps stabilize
things. Left or right.
As I recall, the right and the media
generally hailed Paulsen's selection
for his business experience, calm
demeanor, etc.
Well, that worked out great didn't it?
The world hailed Greenspan for his Maestro
genius! Oh yeah, he fully supported subprime
loans and the mortgage industry boom w/them
for a long, long time, and keeping interest
rates very, very low.
Again, that worked out great.
As I recall, Kudlow agreed the original bailout
was necessary and supported it.
It is impressive. I would hope so. Who is
he going to hire? Hobos and moveon.org
posters?
Of course, he's going to bring on big names,
lots of Clintonites.
All of whom agree with what Paulsen and Bush
are doing now: more bailouts, more taxbreaks
for corporations, lots of govt. growth, and
intervention. That's change alright.
If the face of the president is what needs to
change to help the markets calm down, and our
investments steady, I'm for it.
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To the dolt who said the ones who hungered
for world domination got it wrong.......
what world domination you pinhead?
We're leaving Iraq little by little, not
staying, and we didn't build a pipeline to
the USA did we? No. Never do that despite
the nonsense the left gives us.
I'd kind of worry more about Islamic fanatics
who really hate you, as much as you hate Bush,
and would like to kill you, and dominate you,
your country, and your brain. Grow up.
If we're going to give George W. Bush 100% of
the blame for a huge economic downturn in 2008,
then will we give him credit for 7 years,
5 in particular, of excellent economic news
and growth and low taxes and revenue growth?
No, you won't, and the press didn't either.
Take out 2008, and his unemployment, inflation,
interest, growth rate is steady and positive.
2008 has is hurting world economies, including
ours.
The WORLD is in a downturn. Did Sarkozy and
Merkel and Blair/Brown cause that in their
nations? I don't think anyone is personally
blaming them, and they are left of Presidente
Bush. Is Putin to blame personally for the Russian downturn? No.
Wake up........we need some calm in the market.
We need some common sense in reporting by our
media. We need to grow up as consumers, and not
spend what we don't have, and may never have
just because we want something right now. |
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As Republicans like me have to admit one of
the things we liked about Cheney was his
business expertise, real world financial
experience.
Instead, he was just a lightening rod for
Enron and oil and energy hysteria......
I think Cheney has been the most useless
VP in the 2nd term ever of a president.
Bush needed a voice to assist him 24/7.
He got a guy who came out from the bunker
once a quarter.
I know he's been a steady hand for Bush,
behind the scenes.
I would liked to have seen him front and center
a lot more. If he was a political liability,
he should have graciously stepped aside long
ago. |
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Obama seems intent on a massive public-works spending package. That's the FDR route (which didn't work then and won't work now).
I think the pressure put on by the hard-core left that controls the democrat party will be highly difficult to overcome when it comes to "across-the-board" supply-side tax cuts (as Kudlow recommends).
The "community organizer" will be no match for the whims of Pelosi, Waxman (in Congress since 1974), Obey (since 1969) and Barney Frank. I don't care how good he is reading from a teleprompter.
And just wait for two years from now when he won't have control of Congress. Things will get ugly real fast as the messiah falls to earth HARD. |
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Children from grade school up did not and do not learn American history and haven't for many years now. It's doubtful they even know who FDR is let alone learn from his mistakes! |
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When you clowns learn that ridicule and mockery are not an argument, you will be turning an important corner. Don't sprain your fingers on your keyboard, btw. |
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Barack was always a centrist. Maybe even a bit of a conservative. You guys were just bedazzled by ridiculous "Marxist" and "socialist" rhetoric. He's gonna draw from the Democratic bench. He's gonna make an effort to be solicitious of Reeps--at least those who aren't foamers. And he's gonna govern from the center--the new center. |
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Back up your assertion. Or were you just joking? |
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But will the Stupid Party be able to recognize the opportunity?
They haven't been able to hear their constituents with all that money from the employers of illegals stuck in their ears, they're probably blinded by it as well. |
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I haven't seen evidence of that.
"Talk left, govern right". I've said it before, if Obama wants to be re-elected, he must govern as a conservative (vs "Republican"). That is, no new taxes and cutting spending. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the Dem Congress goes along with BO's budget cut proposals.
If BO decides to "govern right", the GOP would be well-served to pay attention and take notes. However, I don't think BO is man enough to stand up to Pelosi and Frank.
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Memo From Your Team: Yeah, you're right but after a while...
I'm a Dem who's had it out with many of the Cons who post here (heck it's their site, we're the loyal opposition) and I agree with almost everything you say but maybe you could pick and choose a little more. Especially on this particular thread where Hugh is being quite gracious and uprightly American towards the President Elect as it relates to our economic situation. And while Haller-type Cons deserve to be hammered you seem like you're out to hammer them as opposed to their dunderheaded ideas. Believe me, Hallers Cons will call you names enough and fall into all the normal Con traps enough, you'll have plenty to work with. But if you're the one who's throwing gasoline on the fire then you run the risk of burning everything up. |
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Now Hugh is trolling for lefties to complain that their guy isn't left enough. Hugh was the one warning us that Obama was "the most liberal Senator alive... a socialist, borderline Marxist." Obviously, the voters didn't buy it... BECAUSE IT WASN'T TRUE.
Now, instead of feeling relief that Obama's not going to create a new Marxist order, he's complaining that Obama is governing from the center. How can you tell Hugh is wrong? His lips are moving! |
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"Barack was always a centrist".......
huh???????
Is this the same Sen Barack Obama (D) Ill, who is rated #1 most liberal Senator of 100, 2 years running no less?????
please take your meds..... |
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Amnesty will happen, has already happened defacto, but it was the willing and sinister selling out of America by the Republican Party not the Democrats. The Democrats have always viewed the illegals as new votes, new slaves for their plantation, and have never hidden their disdain for common law abiding Americans who end up paying for this catastrophe. The Republicans sold us out to the Chicken Companies and other Corporations for cheap labor and big bonuses and pay offs. Sinister and evil.
Rachoe, do you think having ILLEGAL immigration is good for this country? Do you think it is great that ILLEGAL immigrants come here to have anchor babies, use emergency rooms for common colds, drive drunk, kill people, set up gangs, slip effortlessly back and forth across the border, set up human trafficking, drug rings, undercut normal wages, basically set up a criminal country in a country? How exactly is that something not to be despised? Oh yeah they vote for your guy don't they? Oh yeah you hear hate alright, but not from me on the poor souls who come here to scratch out some coin. My hatred is for all the Republicans who sold us out, who spout all this "secure the borders" crap and never intend for a second to do that....I am looking at you SAXBY SHAME LESS !!!!
This country is lost... GOD help us all
dirL |
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"The GOP should be worried that the president-elect intends to talk left and govern right."
Are you nuts? Governing right would be good for the country and therefore good for the GOP. Certainly preferable to governing left.
Take off the blogging blinders. |
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Summers, Rubin, and media pretty-boy Geithner, like all of their Harvard or Princeton educated ilk- see Ben Bernanke - are nothing but clever communists. |
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dirLie says:
"The Republicans sold us out to the Chicken Companies and other Corporations for cheap labor and big bonuses and pay offs. Sinister and evil."
Spot on... The Republicans handed the ammunition to Democrats which they promptly used to mow down the Republicans.
Since most pols (and apparently conservative talk show hosts) never deal with the real world issues like gangs, poor educational services, wage payment issues, assimilation, and health care are just talking points.
Where type of schooling, public or private, will the Obama's enroll their daughters in?
In the words of the man supposed conservatives love to quote ad nauseam:
"Trust, but Verify."
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That guy Clarityseeker likes to hound me about my assertion back in August that I was scaling back my posts. What i said then was that I am scaling back these kind of second-order substantiations. Just don't have time for such a limited utility activity. Even when facts do resonate with conservatives, which is hardly ever, it is only a matter of time until the next guy comes along demanding deeper substantiation. I have to manage my time.
I will say this: Democrats have played a role, over the past couple decades, in the massive, business-friendly deregulation that has occurred. They have signed-off on business-friendly bankruptcy laws. They have not been aggressive advocates for labor--what would the minimum wage be if the Truman-era level were adjusted for inflation, $20/hour? They have participated in enacting the upwardly skewed tax cuts. They have bought into privatization--selling public assets--and public/private partnerships. At local levels, they have loosened environmental standards or tax rates to attract business. They have moved miles away from the nearly hostile stance they had towards business sixty years ago.
Enough. I have to get back to work. If you can't see it, then there is nothing I can do to help. When anything less than unbridled Nozickian libertarianism is "anti-business," then there is nothing one can say. Looked at from the standpoint of left-leaning parties in the developed world, the Democrats are as pro-business and pro-market as many right-leaning parties in the developed world.
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a Lib-Lefty look at a swatch of Blue faux studiously, place his dainty fists on his narrow hips, wrinkle his botoxed brow and declare: It's RED, I tell ya! RED, RED, RED, REEEDDDDD...It's RED, I tell ya!
Dr.Sowell has much to say about these 'Anointed' fools like the pluperfect posterchild, Blovie Boy(PL). The more they fail, the more they wish to repeat their failures under new window dressing. Hello, Karl...Can you say...Enviro-Nutter? Hello, Fredrich...Can you pronounce...Nanny-Works Projects..? Hello, Herbert...Can you gimme a high fiver for Bammo..? |
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Notice when Obama talks of the cuff it's all you hear..
So I say again libs. Obama said yesterday that he would go over the next budget and remove any waste. Can any of you show me when a Prez has ever been able to do that? (try never) The courts won't let him!
So much for being a smart lawyer. |
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..has been a damn sight more prescient than your sorry you-know-what. but keep up the semi-literate posts. The more irrelevant you are, the better. And it is all the sweeter when you act like you're some kinda playah.. |
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Is Obama going to recommend that Robert Rubin does not take the $108 million that he is slated to receive from CitiBank? |
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You should know that, Lad. They are special. |
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..and ya get all resentful. Natural enough, I guess. Have a nice Thanksgiving anyhow. Best regards, PL LP Blovie.. |
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