Friday, June 13, 2008
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Another Taxing Argument Against Obama
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Posted by:
Tom DeLay at
6:26 AM
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As the New York Post and the Politico reported “WE'RE in for taxing times if Barack Obama wins the White House, says CNBC's Maria Bartiromo. ‘He's going to take the capital gains tax at 15 percent right now all the way up to 25 to 28 percent,’ the ‘Money Honey’ tells Avenue. ‘Sell anything, like a home or stocks, and make a profit . . . [almost] 30 percent of the profit will go to the government instead of 15.’ The income tax is also in for a bump. Bartiromo says, ‘Right now [it] is 35 percent, Obama wants to take that to 39 percent . . . We're talking about people who make over $200,000. That's not rich. So it's actually going to impact more people than you may think.’
And check out the stunning response from Media Matters...they can't even defend Obama's tax policy.
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Oh, jeez, sorry, toppie, but I was busy meeting my wife at the elitist Kennedy Center for a concert by the National Symphony last night and couldn't attend to my computer duties.
I guess y'all think if y'all say "Hussein" enough times, we'll get the message.
Well, we got it. You guys are swift-boating Obama. Y'all are crying wolf too many times, and it ain't helpin' yer cause 'tall. |
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gene:
I know I kicked you in the groin pretty hard with that last post of mine at 5:57 P.M., but surely you could have entertained us with some more of your uneducated commentary and displayed your brainwashing the Communists are providing to you, from within the democrat party, at no charge.
Tell me, do they put you under by way of hypnosis to receive your marching orders or do you gulp down the Blue Kool-Aid?
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Everyone needs to go factchech.org or some other similar website so that we can get unbaised spinless facts about each canidates postions. Just a helpful hint. |
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This come from Factcheck.org
McCain seems to say that he can save $100 billion by cutting out earmarks. But budget experts say that cutting earmarks would actually save very little. And questioned more closely, McCain's campaign now says that his planned savings have nothing to do with eliminating earmarks.
Cutting earmarks wouldn't necessarily cut government spending, according to independent budget experts from across the political spectrum. Jeff Patch, a budget fellow at the libertarian Cato Institute (and also a former McCain volunteer) told FactCheck.org that "earmarks just direct funds from executive agencies to specific projects or companies... earmarks often simply tell agencies how to spend money that they are already getting."
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_budget_accordin g_to_mccain_part_i.html
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Don't worry, sloanie, it'll all be over soon. You'll wake up on November 5th, and the stock and real estate markets will rebound, based solely on the knowledge that at long last the nightmare is over, someone's in the White House who is competent, who actually cares about people like you (even if you don't care about him) and who actually will bring the War in Iraq to an honorable end, freeing up tons of money to pay off the debt. Our standing in the world community will rise because of that, we will again be top dog on the watch, and we'll all live happily ever after -- even the rich. Oh, what a party we'll all have! |
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Quote by planet gene:
“People ARE paying attention to the Democrats these days because the Republicans blew it, and you all know that. It's all about desperation.”
Yes gene, people “are” watching the democrats these days:
1 – “Lie” to the American public to get elected and then not follow through with their campaign promises as usual.
2 – “Failure” to live up to their promises they would get accomplished in the first 100 hours in Congress.
3 – “Failure” to take care of the minority they lie to every two years to get their votes without ever helping them to better themselves in life.
4 – “Failure” to let Republicans participate in legislation they promised they would, and thereby proving their true Communist ideology and not letting democracy work as designed.
5 – “Failure” to count votes properly, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, in Congress so Democrats can alter the true vote count and allowing the United States of America to be a Dictatorship government for a few minutes.
6 – “Failure” to actually “work” thus becoming known as the “Do Nothing Congress”
7 – “Failure” to allow the USA to mine their own resources so we can become energy independent from the ME.
8 – “Failure” to honor their sworn oath they took to defend and protect the Constitution of the USA by not defending our borders.
9 – “Failure” to live honorable lives
10 – “Failure” to pay their fair amount of taxes and proving they are hypocrites, Ted Kennedy.
And out of desperation, they elect a Marxist Presidential candidate and call Barrack HUSSEIN Obama an “African American” when his dad was a “Muslim Arab”, which makes Barrack HUSSEIN Obama a “MUSLIM ARAB”, not an “AFRICAN AMERICAN” just to continue the “Brainwashing” of their base and to get the Black vote.
Checkmate gene ;-)
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Again with your agenda.If you don't get it its your loss.You seem to think all the super rich are rep and this countries problems can be rectified if the democrats have all the power.There in lies your ignorance really don't care if what the super rich think about me.
They are not the ones trying to take my hard earned dollars It is you and your lazy socialistic friends who aspire to my status but refuse to earn it. |
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Golly, topgun, but I have missed your informed commentary! Nuance City. Priceless. People ARE paying attention to the Democrats these days because the Republicans blew it, and you all know that. It's all about desperation.
Ronwik, you and toppie need to get out more, breathe some fresh air, take a look around, instead of just parroting the worst invective money can buy.
sloandog writes, "I am not some speculator making vast profits from the housing market."
Which is probably why you'd be better off a Democrat. Do you really think those superrich who control the Republican Party give a good guddam about you?
Like I say, know who your friends are. |
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your agenda to get my point.First this is my business I do one or two houses a year I am not big time.I am not some speculator making vast profits from the housing market.If every business man stopped working in his field when things got tough where would we be? My point was to illustrate cause and effect.No matter how politicians wrap it higher taxes always hurt the middle class.What about the subcontractors I hired ,were they just taking a chance on the housing market? What would you have them do when people like me are driven out of business? |
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Quote by JamesB
“Tom DeLay has zero credibility
Former Rep. Delay should worry about his fraud case, be thankful he's not already in jail and keep his yap shut about almost everything.”
Look, another communist shill from the democrat party showing how an uneducated person parrots the communist party’s message.
If Tom has “no” credibility, then how come Ronnie Earle, the limp dic Communist prosecutor, is the one who has delayed having a trial if the evidence he supposedly has can convict Congressman DeLay?
You Communists have no problem freely making fools out of yourselves in public.
Please continue to contribute with posts displaying your low level IQ’s. The entertainment is priceless. :-O
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Communists shilling the Democrat party standard excuses they are brainwashed with to preach only makes for a boring conversation and debate when their IQ level is below the price of a gallon of Milk.
Go light up your bong gene. It is quite evident you are clueless and have allowed yourself to be used by the Communists with nine figure bank accounts who laugh while people like you, who have been brainwashed, run to the streets repeating your false messages to the uneducated masses who will worship your tripe.
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sloan, interesting story, but I think you're mixing causes and effects. You took a risk, the economy tanked, and you're stuck with a home you won't make any money on. If you had made out like a bandit in a hot real estate market, would you be as concerned about Obama's tax hike on capital gains? Angry, maybe, but not wondering how you're going to feed the family.
No president in his right mind would raise capital gains tax rates astronomically all at once -- it would devastate the economy. And of course Congress wouldn't let him anyway, even an all-Democratic Congress. Look for small incremental increases. Time you stopped believing all the bogeyman stories out there.
Also, the economy has tanked and the home you built is worth less now. Have you stopped and asked, Whose fault is that? Who brought about the sub-prime mortgage crisis? Whose lack of vision enabled gas prices to raise so much so fast? Where are the federal regulators hiding? Who put the country deep in debt to Red China?
Time to re-evaluate who your friends are. |
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affects the small business man.For example I built a small log home on a vacant lot that I owned.I cleared that lot myself and maintained it for two years.I did a lot of the construction myself,the subs I did hire were very grateful for work as the construction industry is very slow in Florida.I put long hours of hard labor in and paid taxes on materials and sub bills.With the weak real estate market I may only show a $20,000.00 profit on paper,but in reality I lost money.Now Obama is talking about raising capitol gains tax to 30%!Just what do you think will happen to me and the subs I hire.Talk all the theory you want this is reality. |
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I was pretty sure my first post didn't take because of the link, so I broke the link and posted again. My apologies!! |
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sloandog, "I" want very little from you because you obviously work hard for the money you make. But don't you find it the least bit ironic that there are people out there who manage private equity funds who pay a top of 15% on their income because the income is related to investments that produce capital gains? That's a lower percentage than you pay, and they make several billion a year (largely on speculation). But really all they do is a service; they don't themselves put up the money but merely apply other people's money. So why aren't they paying the regular, non-cap-gains rate?
That and four other taxes are proposed in an article in today's Washington Post. Feel free to look it over at:
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060403270.html
and tell me what you think. Are these not valid arguments? |
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sloandog, "I" want very little from you because you obviously work hard for the money you make. But don't you find it the least bit ironic that there are people out there who manage private equity funds who pay a top of 15% on their income because the income is related to investments that produce capital gains? That's a lower percentage than you pay, and they make several billion a year (largely on speculation). But really all they do is a service; they don't themselves put up the money but merely apply other people's money. So why aren't they paying the regular, non-cap-gains rate?
That and four other taxes are proposed in an article in today's Washington Post. Feel free to look it over at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/0 6/04/AR2008060403270.html
and tell me what you think. Are these not valid arguments? |
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I didn't go to college,didn't get money from family all i've attained has been from hard work and perseverance have owened businesses and had many employees,raised a family and kept a good roof over head.I worked late nights,weekends and holidays. So planetgene,how much do you want from me to reward people who underachieve? |
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Edward, gas lines were during the Nixon presidency. Reagan caused us to go $200 billion in debt. By the time we pull out of our tailspin with Bush II, we'll have gone up to $3 trillion in debt. Reagan's legacy is that he got inflation under control by breaking the back of the unions, and the middle class has been paying for that little victory ever since. |
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Besides, we've had seven years now of incredibly low taxes on the rich, and how have they chosen to spend this unexpected bumper crop of money? Sure much of it has been plowed back into the economy in the form of smart investments. But they've also spent tons on misleading ads, lying to the American people about all manner of things. They've paid lobbyists to influence legislation to make themselves even more money. They've gotten the best lawyers money can buy to win some pretty doubtful decisions. They've given us the likes of Enron and Adelphia, while inventing ever-fresh ways to speculate in dismal enterprises and avoid the taxes they should be paying. Their greed knows no bounds. The entreprenuer with a conscience is a dying breed.
As we speak, my wife is having a heck of a time trying to get home on the last leg of her business trip. She's stuck in O'Hare, and now this flight is delayed. A simple flight to Anchorage has become a horror story. And what is the government doing about fixing the airline industry? Nothing, because that's what it can afford to do. In almost every aspect of our current life and economy, from tomatoes to hurricanes to gas, the government is impotent because it's broke.
When the rich wake up and figure out it's in their best interests to be good citizens and pay their fair share -- not everything, but just their fair share -- we may again become a great nation, founded on the best Christian values and borne along by the spirit of love-thy-neighbor, don't take him to the cleaners. |
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[MOTE: I'm having trouble posting my whole message, so I'll do it a little at a time and maybe see what's hanging it up.]
Hey, toppie, good to see you again!
No one is suggesting that we "strip our society of its entrepreneurial spirit by imposing taxes" that, in effect, make everyone financially equal. What we are saying is that it's eminently fair that the rich pay a little bit more in taxes. They are the real winners in our society, harvesting the finest fruits of our freedom-based government, and so it only makes sense that they pay a little more. |
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Get ready for Jimmy Carter II! I remember the gas lines, high interest rates, and high taxes. As much as the liberals hate Reagan, the economy turned around with his policies; they can't argue that! |
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This mighty nation was built on the drive of the entrepreneurial spirit of the men who created it without the leg irons of taxation.
If a government is to strip a society of its entrepreneur spirit with taxation, that same government will turn against its citizens and strip them of their freedom.
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,I am disappointed with DeLay and his cohorts for destroying my party.I will make no excuses for those who would fore go the good of the country for personal gain no matter what side of the aisle they are on.Now can you look at Obama with the same objectivity? |
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There's a fledgling website out there that seeks to monitor the various earmarks, but it's a tough business. Check it out at EarmarkWatch.org. The main weakness of the site is that it relies on you citizens to do its research for it. There must be a better way, but this is what we have so far. I think a better way might be to identify who is supporting the earmark in Congress, and have their own constituents scream bloody murder.
Fighting earmarks begins at home! Mr. Delay, are you proud of the earmarks you made as a Congressman from your district? How do you feel about them now -- are they out of control? |
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For all you advocates of higher taxes, please consider the words of Winston Churchill: "for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle".
Also, I cannot take seriously the comments of Tom DeLay, or any congress-critter (D or R), since they are the ones who have caused immense damage to our country with their "drunken-sailor" spending. I believe that most of the people in congress are very smart. They know exactly what they are doing. The problem is they are not doing what is in the best interest of America. They are doing what is in their own best interest.
We need to return to limited constitutional gov't. Cut SPENDING, cut TAXES. Then we will have prosperity for all. |
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All i hear on this blog is fuss. You tell me what has the "Bushed Justice" tax cuts have achieved? If it is left to you this economy will sink in few months. Be realists. There is no way to sustain this unjustified war and tax cut without having a fair tax system which Obama supports. |
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seansfm writes, "...I would like to see a bi-partisan condemnation of any tax increases that would cause the economy to tank."
Um, it already HAS tanked, Sean. What better time to weigh in and start setting things right.
SAM writes, "The earmarks should be a mark of shame for all who participate. It's a disgrace. There should be a central location (a Web site) and a devoted section in large newspapers where these things are summarized and highlighted. Members of Congress should be held up to ridicule for these things."
Shall we include the state's citizens who openly celebrate when their rep in Washington brings home the bacon? Shall we include challengers to incumbents who use lack of earmark success to make the case for replacing the incumbent?
There's only one way to end the earmark debacle: When you, Citizen, hear about your rep bringing it home, write him immediately and yell about what a stupid thing he's doing, that you don't care whether it's "good for the state," the damn money's coming straight out of your pocket, and you don't appreciate it!
I used to work on budgets in the Pentagon, and I can tell you, the earmarks we used to see -- money we had no choice but to spend on dumb things -- were the worst part of the job. Millions of dollars, and they never got in the public eye. I came to view government as not like business because of the hopelessly irrational intrusion of Congress into the business, say, of defense.
I'd like to see, no matter who wins, an office created in the Executive Branch that reviews all earmarks and passes judgment on them. Let President McCain stand in the White House briefing room and read off the list of all the sinners and their sins. |
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Holy crap man! It's rich in my book!
Still, raising ANY taxes in response to a weak economy is dumb, dumb, dumb. Since those of us making less than $200,000 are much more vulnerable in bad economies, I would like to see a bi-partisan condemnation of any tax increases that would cause the economy to tank. |
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Sue: sorry to hear you're from CA. I was born there, but dad got transferred to the Midwest years ago. Still, in doing some CA non-resident income tax returns, I noticed that its taxation is brutal.
Still, before raising taxes, the presidential candidates should be examining the spending. The earmarks should be a mark of shame for all who participate. It's a disgrace. There should be a central location (a Web site) and a devoted section in large newspapers where these things are summarized and highlighted. Members of Congress should be held up to ridicule for these things. Then, and only then, even begin to consider raising taxes.
Sad to say, it's been reported today that Lieberman is one of the biggest porkers around. I guess McCain can say in that regard that it's virtually impossible to find someone like him on that issue in Congress. I wonder if Lieberman earmarked $1M back to the hospital employing Obama's wife the year after she got a raise from $122K a year to $317K a year. Must have been part of what we "owe" them. |
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I have to laugh when they talk about median incomes across the United States. Do they ever factor in the cost of living in different states.
In CA, we are almost at $5.00 per gallon for gas. We have been the highest always. When they say the national average for gas hits over $4.00 a gallon. We have been at that for months now. Groceries are running sky high. I bought a box of cereal the other day and it was over $5.00 and it was nothing organic, a box of Lucky Charms.
As for taxes, I get ripped, not by the government, but by the state. CA has the highest income tax rate and gosh, they want to raise it to help pay for our large and lovely deficit. They also want to raise taxes to help the teachers. They are trying to get certain teachers in areas and make it mandatory to be bi-lingual. Yes, we have a huge immigration problem in this state, but no body wants to talk about it. We paid in 2007 over $9 billion dollars for this.
Instead of raising taxes, lets get a handle on immigration. Lets have real change in Washington. Lets have Congress take a HUGE paycut and if do are not there to vote, then lets get rid of you. |
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The Post and Politico,who'd have thought. Taxes usn't that a new swear word.
Better see if it's on Obama's new smear site. You have to check this thing everyday. |
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Before the king went to war, he'd plunder the kingdom of its wealth and raise an army of unwilling participants. Well, Bush got the unwilling-participants part right, but he plumb forgot the plunder-your-wealthy-friends part. Consequently, we now have deficits as far as the eye can see. Incredible, nay, stunning deficits that frankly boggle the mind.
I once asked Mr. DeLay if he could justify tax cuts for the rich while the Iraq War took us deeper in debt. He kindly and patiently responded that, yes, tax cuts spurred investment and produced more revenue in the lower tax brackets; it was win-win, lower taxes and more revenue.
Well, it's been seven years of this plan, and look where our economy is today. The wealthy have taken their wealth offshore to protect it, and the rest of us are stuck with -- well, I wish it were just bupkis, but in fact it's worse: massive debt.
People, somebody's got to pay off our profligacy sooner or later, and I for one would rather pay it off now and give my kids and grandkids a brighter future. Painful, but, c'mon, it's only money.
And tell me I'm wrong. I dare you.
P.S. Why isn't Iraqi oil paying off the war (or at least rebuilding their country)? It's the question I hear most often -- from everybody. Somebody splain dat to me, and I promise I'll pass it on. |
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In general, I favor the sentiments of TH bloggers. Thus, I note that Kimberly, a commenter before me, in criticizing DeLay, wrote something idiotic:
"It's about time that those who should have helped pay for the war in Iraq besides passing the burden along to our grandchildren and their kid's kids, and so on, are now being called on to do what is right to heal the Bush-era wounds to our economy."
From that paragraph, we're to conclude that no opponent of the war (which presumably means all Democrats) makes over $200K a year. An idiotic statement from a hard left commenter.
All the same, this is a dopey post by DeLay. To piggyback on a statement that Obama's increase in capital-gains tax rates will subject gains on the sale of homes to greater tax is intellectually indefensible. For most people, there's a substantial gain exclusion for the sale of a principal residence. That exclusion doesn't apply to second homes; it never has.
Someone needs to provide a detailed comparison of the tax plans that each candidate proposes. Obama clearly doesn't understand the need to keep capital gains tax rates down, but Republicans don't help matters when they raise a red herring as DeLay does.
Let's also be clear that the capital-gains tax rates generally don't have a direct effect on those who own stock or mutual fund shares in a 401(k) plan, profit-sharing plan, traditional IRA, and the like because the assets in those tax-sheltered vehicles, when distributed, are ALL taxed at ordinary income tax rates--that is, the marginal rate that then applies to the taxpayer. Of course, higher capital-gains tax rates may affect the value of the investments in these vehicles by depressing their value in the markets, but I'll leave that for the economists to evaluate.
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Very simple for America to survive. Illegal immigration has destroyed this country go to Numbers USA and check how your senators & reps vote and tell them what you think before you vote them back in. My county has a congresswoman with A+ and two senators with a D & F that tells the story. Elect a President that wants to keep our constitution instead of uniting with Canada & Mexico.
Build the dam fence, stop this 1.2 trillion carbon tax, quit funding millions to Planned Parenthood (abortion Clinic), stop Obama’s 845 billion global poverty (we have poverty here), drill here and look into sugar cane, quit giving money to people that want to destroy us. Put an end to EARMARKS, stop big government, stop selling and renting our highways to foreign countries. Stop this super highway and bring back our factories to the US. Speaker of the house needs to move to a foreign country she’s done enough damage here.
Fund our military needs, Obama thinks he can talk to people that hate us and want to control the whole world, he has a loose screw. |
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