Saturday, July 04, 2009
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Romney Rising
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Posted by:
Matt Lewis at
9:53 AM
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If Mitt Romney had convened a conclave to set about systematically destroying his potential presidential opponents, he could have done no better than this.
Moderate Utah governor Jon Huntsman was dispatched abroad by President Obama, Nevada Sen. John Ensign and South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford's affairs ended any ambitions they may have had -- and now, Sarah Palin's bizarre announcement that she is stepping down as governor of Alaska has -- in my mind, at least -- guaranteed that she cannot realistically win the GOP nomination in 2012 (though she may try).
Had anyone at such a meeting invented this scenario where Romney's opponents would self-destruct, they would have been laughed out of the room.
And while this GOP collapse may, at first blush, appear to be a bad thing for Republicans, it ironically may help Republicans prevent a nasty primary battle on the right, freeing up Romney to focus his energy on President Obama.
Of course, should the economy recover, Obama may well be unbeatable. But should the economy continue to slump, Romney would be uniquely suited to challenge Obama. After all, prior to becoming Massachusetts governor, Mitt Romney ran Bane Capital -- a firm specializing in turning around failing companies.
Moreover, Romney is temperamentally suited to this task, as well. Whereas other Republicans are passionate, Romney (with a few exceptions) relies a bit more on a logical dispassionate approach to politics. In this regard, he is well suited to the times, and more stylistically like Obama than his other potential competitors.
Speaking of which, it seems, at this point, Romney really has to worry about only former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee and former Speaker Newt Gingrich. Regardless, neither Gingrich nor Huckabee will have the organization or fundraising prowess that Romney can put together. One can imagine Romney arising as the establishment candidate, and having to fend off Huckabee in states like Iowa and South Carolina in much the same way that George H.W. Bush dispatched of rivals such as Pat Robertson in 1988.
Conflicts arise when there is no clear leader, and this may be the opportunity for Romney to become the de facto leader of the GOP, sooner than anyone thought. It's still a long way off, but Mitt Romney couldn't have planned this any better had he tried ...
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Is that the blather by Arch, Allan and Cotton actually make K.G. sound rational.
But let's take her argument apart.
"#1: The sheer numbers are against the Pubs ever winning anything ever again."
Me- Only because they've alienated so many people! They are the party of angry religous white men.
"#2: BHO is still popular with the proud progressives, the entitlement crowd, government workers, union members, blacks and hispanics and single moms."
In short, the afforementioned majority I mentioned. Heck, they've alienated ME, and I voted for every Republican since Reagan.
"#3: The only shot Pubs have in 2012 is fixing a hideous economy."
Works on the assumption that the economy is going to be hideous in 2012. It probably won't. When was the last time a recession lasted 4+ years?
"#4. There is real reason the economy will be in the total pits during the 2010 and 2012 elections. The BO administration is doing everything in their power to make it so."
Me- Again, 2012 unlikely. 2010, probably. But the economy was in the pits in 2002, and Bush still managed to pad his majority.
"#5: The only shot that the Pubs have in overturning an increasingly powerful BHO is a person people trust to fix the economy."
Me- Wait for it... wait for it...
"#6. Currently the go-to guy on the economy is Romney."
Right, a guy who made his fortune by putting people out of work. That's the guy you want to go to. The VERY GUYS WHO GOT US INTO THIS MESS.
Here's the problem- we are in a mess because a lot of greedy people like Romney made themselves richer by dismantling the middle class and shipping it off to China and India. How do we fix THAT! If Obama has a flaw, he's trying to preserve the current capitalist model.
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"This fool is tryin' to claim that Jesus Christ didn't exist. Hells bells, even most atheists don't deny that!"
Me- Well, once again, it seems pretty unlikely. No contemporary accounts or evidence, contradictory gospels, and a lot of evidence that other myths were incorporated into the story.
C- But, "eugene, really, lets be serious here, if a fool like you is right, then I'm no worse the wear,
Me- Well, actually, you are. You dedicated your life to something that doesn't exist and did your best to impose your stupitidy on others. You denied yourself a lot of enjoyment because it was a "sin". Andif you pop into nothingness at the end of your life, what was any of it for?
C- " but if I'm right, OH MY, oh my, "eugene" for you see, dear "boy", that "the dead small and great, stand before God and the book was opened: and another book was opened, ..And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the Lake of Fire." Rev. 20:12,15."
Me- Wow. So essentially, your loving God is a psychopathic monster who eternally tortures people who don't kiss his backside.
Or as I said. Hitler burns Ann Frank once, he is considered "evil".
Jesus burns her for all eternity, he is considered "Good".
Why would such a diety be worthy of my worship? My fear, maybe, if he existed. My contempt, absolutely...
C- "You see dear "boy" your bettin' it all, your bettin' your everlasting, ever living, never dying, soul, that Jesus Christ is nothin' but a fairy tale. blah, blah, more torture porn."
Me- Unlikely. I will pop out of existence at the end of my life, just like you will, but I will have enjoyed myself before I got there and not spent it feeling guilty about BS i never should feel guilty about.
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Axe. You are then mocking the average Joe Citizen who works hard for their earnings and seeks to protect and preserve their family and well being.
That is what the majority average Joe does. You don't know that because you are educated by idiot libtards. We don't need your type trying to tell us what is wrong or right. Take a hike on the wild side! Busy body effeminate male!
Me- The average Joe Citizen who votes Republican is a moron. He let's these demogouges get him all worked up about guns or abortion or gays or other stuff THAT IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. And they proceed to vote in sh!theads like Romney and BUsh who allow Corporate America screw them.
Riddle me this, Arch. You've been voting GOP for how long? Before I woke up, it's been since 1980. How many of those social issues have they actually done anything about?
Abortion is still legal. YOu still can't pray in schools, kids are still being taught they evolved from monkeys, gay marriage is now legal in 6 states, you still don't have school vouchers. In short, all the stuff they keep promising you never happens.
Meanwhile, Joe Average is getting this. Free Trade treaties that send his good paying jobs overseas. Right to Work Laws that have disbanded his union and made it easier to lay him off in favor of some waif who'll work for half the pay. Disappearing benefits. Disappearing protections.
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cottoneyed writes: Monday, July, 06, 2009 11:34 PM
Seems "eugene" got the axe stuck in his
head, tonight. This fool is tryin' to claim that Jesus Christ didn't exist. Hells bells, even most atheists don't deny that! The Psalmist says it best, "only a fool, says there is no GOD". But, "eugene, with the axe in your head", really, lets be serious here, if a fool like you is right, then I'm no worse the wear, but if I'm right, OH MY, oh my, "eugene" for you see, dear "boy", that "the dead small and great, stand before God(Jesus Christ); and the book was opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things that were written in the books, according to their works......And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the Lake of Fire." Rev. 20:12,15. You see dear "boy" your bettin' it all, your bettin' your everlasting, ever living, never dying, soul, that Jesus Christ is nothin' but a fairy tale. Good luck, "eugene" your goin' need it, and a whole lot of it, too!! Have ya' ever been drivin' to "gnashing(of your teeth)and weeping"? No, well stand by, because you will, and on bended knee, too, and you will CONFESS that Jesus Christ is exactly who he is, very God of very God. Oh, you'll do it alright, dear "boy", you'll do it!
Arch says
Cotton. You are certainly right. I see a thousand fools a year just like Axe. They try to shock and disgust us but forget that they will be judged by someone much bigger than they. We are created by a Creator and are not superior to Him. What libtard can prove the non existence of God? Not even Axe can do it! He is a lost fool. Don't pay him no mind! You rock Cotton!! |
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head, tonight. This fool is tryin' to claim that Jesus Christ didn't exist. Hells bells, even most atheists don't deny that! The Psalmist says it best, "only a fool, says there is no GOD". But, "eugene, with the axe in your head", really, lets be serious here, if a fool like you is right, then I'm no worse the wear, but if I'm right, OH MY, oh my, "eugene" for you see, dear "boy", that "the dead small and great, stand before God(Jesus Christ); and the book was opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things that were written in the books, according to their works......And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the Lake of Fire." Rev. 20:12,15. You see dear "boy" your bettin' it all, your bettin' your everlasting, ever living, never dying, soul, that Jesus Christ is nothin' but a fairy tale. Good luck, "eugene" your goin' need it, and a whole lot of it, too!! Have ya' ever been drivin' to "gnashing(of your teeth)and weeping"? No, well stand by, because you will, and on bended knee, too, and you will CONFESS that Jesus Christ is exactly who he is, very God of very God. Oh, you'll do it alright, dear "boy", you'll do it! |
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Careful with that axe, Eugene writes: Monday, July, 06, 2009 7:16 PM
Arch-
"Palin achieved her goals as Governor of Alaska early. Now she moves ahead to something new. You must be worried about what that will be or you wouldn't waste time on posting negatively about her. Why do you GAS about Palin? Now she is merely a US citizen from Alaska with no powers of government. What do you care anything about her? Give us another libtard spin on why you care enough to post negatively about her. Use that feeble mind of yours. You don't know much, do you?"
Me- Actually, I'm pointing it out because you supporters of this stupid bible thumping cow all got behind her, and she imploded. I'm mocking YOU GUYS.
Sorry you can't tell the difference.
Arch says
Axe. You are then mocking the average Joe Citizen who works hard for their earnings and seeks to protect and preserve their family and well being.
That is what the majority average Joe does. You don't know that because you are educated by idiot libtards. We don't need your type trying to tell us what is wrong or right. Take a hike on the wild side! Busy body effeminate male! |
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"she folds like a cheap painsuit."
A fortuitous typo.
"Could you imagine Bill Clinton or George W. Bush saying "People made mean jokes about my kid. I'm outta here."
Ah, but the person I CAN imagine doing it, because he did, is H. Ross Perot. Palin is the modern equivalent of Perot, even though she's wacky in an entirely different direction. |
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...political realities.
#1: The sheer numbers are against the Pubs ever winning anything ever again.
#2: BHO is still popular with the proud progressives, the entitlement crowd, government workers, union members, blacks and hispanics and single moms.
#3: The only shot Pubs have in 2012 is fixing a hideous economy.
#4. There is real reason the economy will be in the total pits during the 2010 and 2012 elections. The BO administration is doing everything in their power to make it so.
#5: The only shot that the Pubs have in overturning an increasingly powerful BHO is a person people trust to fix the economy.
#6. Currently the go-to guy on the economy is Romney.
Get over the fact he's rich, has good hair, a warm, pretty wife, an exemplary family, is a Mormon, did some moderate things in Mass and isn't particularly entertaining.
The only person who will be able to knock the crazed megalomaniacal Barack Hussin Obama off his throne is an economy guy. (And a woman's not going to cut it.)
If you have a bunch of fresh GOP faces, save 'em for 2016. Learn from BHO. He was an unknown and came out quickly before anybody had a chance to get the goods on him.
If the Wright/black lib stuff had come out earlier, Hillary could have got the nom and would have probably been beaten by McCain. |
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"Palin achieved her goals as Governor of Alaska early. Now she moves ahead to something new. You must be worried about what that will be or you wouldn't waste time on posting negatively about her. Why do you GAS about Palin? Now she is merely a US citizen from Alaska with no powers of government. What do you care anything about her? Give us another libtard spin on why you care enough to post negatively about her. Use that feeble mind of yours. You don't know much, do you?"
Me- Actually, I'm pointing it out because you supporters of this stupid bible thumping cow all got behind her, and she imploded. I'm mocking YOU GUYS.
Sorry you can't tell the difference. |
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"Guys go back and read my original posts, and this clown’s response to them. What I said is that just because there is no precedent for what Sarah Palin did, does not mean that her strategy will not work. My point is that history is a long record of people breaking the mold ( a kinda first time for everything if you will). I gave examples from ancient history, and the Obama Drone couldn’t refute this so he demanded modern examples."
Me- None of your examples were worth refuting. You listed a bunch of things that happened, NONE of which were a politician running off the stage LIKE A WHIPPED DOG and expecting to have a future. That was an example I asked you to provide, and you couldn't.
AC- "But, but, we elected a Catholic once. And they say in my funditard church that the Pope worships the Devil. Really!!!!"
Get off it, screwball. Of course we were going to inevitably elect a Catholic president if Catholics were the LARGEST denomination in the country at that point. What amazes me is we haven't elected once since.
Again, Palin RAN OFF THE STAGE LIKE A WHIPPED DOG. The precedent here is that she has shown that under pressure, she folds like a cheap painsuit. That she can't take the criticism, that she can't prioritize like most politicians.
Could you imagine Bill Clinton or George W. Bush saying "People made mean jokes about my kid. I'm outta here."
Heck no. No man would get away with that, and no woman should, either. |
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AC- and others yeah then I guess there would be “zero” accounts! Even liberal and secular scholars do not put the Gospel accounts that late, because they are cited as being circulated and well known in earlier church writing such as Ignatius, Papias, the Didache, the Epistle of Barnabas, and etc.
Me- Actually, the Gospels weren't written until the end of the first century, maybe later, by people who didn't know Jesus personally. Also, the church itself destroyed hundreds of "non-canonical" gospels that didn't reflect the official view.
There is another ancient reference- A correspondence by the Emperor Hadrian...
"The land of Egypt, the praises of which you have been recounting to me, my dear Servianus, I have found to be wholly light-minded, unstable, and blown about by every breath of rumour. There those who worship Serapis are, in fact, Christians, and those who call themselves bishops of Christ are, in fact, devotees of Serapis. There is no chief of the Jewish synagogue, no Samaritan, no Christian presbyter, who is not an astrologer, a soothsayer, or an anointer. Even the Patriarch himself, when he comes to Egypt, is forced by some to worship Serapis, by others to worship Christ.[6]"
Wow- Interesting... So essentially, the worship of Jesus in the second century was highly intertwined with the worship of Serapis (the Hellanized version of the ancient God Osiris.)
Of course, Osiris/Serapis and Jesus have a lot in common. They were both betrayed, murdered and rose from the dead.... naaaahhhh, that can't be a coincidence.
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even the most radical left wings scholars known as the “Jesus Seminar” led by Dr. John Dominic Crossan (who is an avowed atheist) do not even agree with this statement!
Me- Well, just because you find one atheist willing to concede Jesus was real.. so what.. A lot don'tthink he was.
Let's begin this disucssion by pointing out that if Jesus were real, he was crucified between 27-33 CE. (Important point. We don't even know when this momentus event happened.) So the people you are going to cite had no personal knowledge of this event.
AC_ Zero accounts huh, yeah well I guess when you take people like Josephus,
Me- References in Josephus are universally considered to be an intropolation by Medieval Christians. The text doesn't even match the rest of the writing style. For instance, he refrest to Jesus as "The Christ", something no non-Christian Jew would have done.
Also, Josephus never met Jesus. Not a contemporary account.
AC- Tacitus,
Tacitus wasn't born until 55 AD. So it's not a contemporary account. Interestingly, it's the ONLY reference Tacitus makes to the Christians. He makes no reference to them after that.
and Suetonius
Me- Here's the whole reference- It states that Claudius expelled the Jews from Rome because "the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus." Now that's interesting, since Jesus was already dead at this point. So how could he be instigating the Jews? Also, interestingly enough, Suetonius makes NO mention of their persecution under Nero.
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I said hello, Mitty,......well, hello, Mitty
Its so nice to have you back where you belong
Youre lookin swell, Mitty.......i can tell, Mitty
Youre still glowin...youre still crowin...youre still goin strong
I feel the party swayin......while the media is playin
One of its favorite memes from way back when
So..... take his coat, fellas.......find him a microphone, fellas
Mittyll never go away again
(instrumental break)
I said hello, Mitty,.....well, hello, Mitty
Its so nice to have you back where you belong
Youre lookin swell, Mitty.....i can tell, Mitty
Youre still glowin...youre still crowin...youre still goin strong
I feel the party swayin...while the media keeps on playin
One of its favourite memes from way back when
So...golly, gee, fellas....find Mitt an empty microphone, fellas
Mittyll never go away....i said Mitty'll never go away
Mittyll never go away again |
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Freedon is actually Freedom Sorry
frjm |
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You got to be kidding??????
Mitt Romney; Pro-Open Borders, Pro-Amnesty, Pro-Abortion, Pro-Socialized Health Care and on and on. If Mitt Romney is choosen to run Republicans will lose again.
Additionally, if Gingrich runs with his belief in "Global Warming" and the fact that he betrayed the "Contract with America" Republicans will lose.
If Huckabee runs Republicans will lose because he believes in Amnesty for the millions of "invaders" in America as well as in tax payer funded tution for them even though they are criminals.
If Giuliani runs Republicans will lose because he believes in Amnesty and does not believe in the 2nd amendment.
If McCain walks, I don't think he can run anymore, Republican will lose because he is a RINO and I believe he took money during the 08 campaign from soros. I'll have to check that out again because I can't remember the details.
If Palin runs it is highly unlikely she can win because it appears she is a quitter.
The Republican party is in a sad position with no Reagan stars on the horizon.
And Ron Paul, the only candidate who believes in the Constitution and freedon, would be trashed by his own party as he was during the 08 campaign and betrayed by the American people because in reality Americans don't want freedom if it means giving up many of the nanny state hand-outs.
BE AMERICA VOTE AMERICA
frjm
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What a short memory you have. Last year Matt Lewis was a McCainiac. (We saw how that worked out for him and us).
Whether Lewis likes Romney or not, he is recognizing the fact that the Republican field is getting narrower.
Only time will tell if this action by Palin will politically hurt her in the future. For all we know, she may not be interested in even having a political future.
I do wish her well, what ever her plans may be. She certainly was a breath of fresh air. |
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That's what you think is the "one problem for Romney"?
Man, you guys grasp at straws.
There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Romney's record as governor, but you guys who fall back on the old "he's too rich" criticism sound awfully petty. You'd actually have more credibility if you just jumped on the "He's Mormon!" bandwagon with the rest of the self righteous bigots here. |
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we do not know if he is paying someone for their opinion or not.
Matt Lewis could be a paid shill for Romney and we would never know.
The same is true of anyone who touts a candidate on the internet. However, Romney has the money to hire a lot of internet shills.
The only thing about Matt Lewis is that it is a little early to start touting presidential candidates for three years from now. |
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The Romniacs like Hewitt, Coulter, Ingraham, Hannity, and basesment blogger Matt Lewis etc...can claim Romney is a conservative till the cows come home.
Romney's actual record proves he is a far left liberal.
Rommney:
• Established abortion with a $50 co pay as a “healthcare benefit” (AFTER his supposed “pro life conversion”) in his socialist healthcare plan that was endorsed by Hillary, Teddy K, and Planned Parenthood.
• Appointed a Planned Parenthood member to his healthcare advisory board (AFTER his supposed “pro-life conversion”) and no pro-life appointed representative.
• Illegally instituted same sex “marriage” without an accompanying legal statute to fulfill an earlier promise to the Log Cabin Republicans not to oppose same sex “marriage” in return for their endorsement? (There was no “court order” as Romney has falsely asserted as you know.)
• Boosted government funding for pro-homosexuality indoctrination of schoolchildren, and refused to order his education officials to enforce parents’ legal right to protect their own children from unwanted indoctrination about homosexuality.
• Forced Catholic Charities to place children with homosexual couples or go out of business (which they ultimately did) even though he was not required to do so by law.
• Forced Catholic Hospitals to provide the abortion pill claiming that he was required by law to do so even though Mike Dukakis admitted there was no law that existed which required Romney to do so.
• Raised taxes and fees by over $900 million as governor which has destroyed the Massachusetts economy.
• Implemented a socialist healthcare plan endorsed by Planned Parenthood that in the words of the Wall St. Journal is in “intensive care” whose costs are estimated to more than double and which the Cato Institute and Boston Globe has said is a total failure.
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What are the real chances for Romney winning the the GOP nomination? This article talks as thought Romney has stepped up his politcal game and how ready he is now. All this hype is making me anxious to see Romney's approach. Hopefully its quite different than his presidental campaign. I guess time will tell... |
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Continue to have fun mopping the floor with Eugene (what a gay name) The Obama Drone! |
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Careful with that axe, Eugene writes: Sunday, July, 05, 2009 8:27 PM
Allan
Look, I know they teach you in Funditard U that Jesus was real and he was God, but out here in the real world, there's STILL a lot of debate about whether he lived at all.
There are ZERO non-Christian contemporary accounts of his existance. The same cannot be said of, let's say, Mohammed, whose historical existance can be verified in such a way. The Gospels weren't written until a century after his supposed life.
JESUS IS A FAIRY TALE. Deal with it.
Read and be educated...
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
Now on to your other claims.
Grover Cleveland didn't "quit". He won his election, but was denied the presidency by that affront to common sense, the electoral college. He came back and won again.
Teddy Roosevelt didn't quit. FDR didn't quit. JFK didn't quit. All of these other FIRSTS don't invalidate my question.
CAN YOU NAME ANYONE WHO QUIT THEIR POSITION AFTER BEING HIT WITH MASSIVE ETHICS CHARGES WHO HAD A FUTURE? Don't answer other question, moron, answer that one.
Sorry, Palin has shown herself to be inept, corrupt and mentally unstable. If she ever runs again, there will be a whole slew of McCain staffers who are going to come out and denounce her. She's toast.
Arch says.
Palin achieved her goals as Governor of Alaska early. Now she moves ahead to something new. You must be worried about what that will be or you wouldn't waste time on posting negatively about her. Why do you GAS about Palin? Now she is merely a US citizen from Alaska with no powers of government. What do you care anything about her? Give us another libtard spin on why you care enough to post negatively about her. Use that feeble mind of yours. You don't know much, do you? |
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The Obama Drone continues:
“Grover Cleveland didn't "quit". He won his election, but was denied the presidency by that affront to common sense, the electoral college. He came back and won again. Teddy Roosevelt didn't quit. FDR didn't quit. JFK didn't quit. All of these other FIRSTS don't invalidate my question. CAN YOU NAME ANYONE WHO QUIT THEIR POSITION AFTER BEING HIT WITH MASSIVE ETHICS CHARGES WHO HAD A FUTURE? Don't answer other question, moron, answer that one. Sorry, Palin has shown herself to be inept, corrupt and mentally unstable. If she ever runs again, there will be a whole slew of McCain staffers who are going to come out and denounce her. She's toast.”
Guys go back and read my original posts, and this clown’s response to them. What I said is that just because there is no precedent for what Sarah Palin did, does not mean that her strategy will not work. My point is that history is a long record of people breaking the mold ( a kinda first time for everything if you will). I gave examples from ancient history, and the Obama Drone couldn’t refute this so he demanded modern examples. I thus kicked his as* in providing those and guess what, he did not respond to those either. So he now demand a historical precedent for Sarah Palin’s strategy. This is funny because the whole point of what I wrote is that history record those who are precedent makers and not followers.
Yeah, serious it is really getting old just kicking your as* around. You are not even in my league on an intellectual basis and an education level. I far above you in both regards. You are the bum who majored in history (which I doubt) but then could not cut it in the academic world. Aaaawwwwhhhh, was actual research too hard for The Obama Drone. Feel like crying ya little baby? Whhhhaaaaawww goes Eugene The Obama Drone.
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Oh geeze another boring Obama Drone post, what does this idiot have to say now? The Obama Drone wrote:
“Look, I know they teach you in Funditard U that Jesus was real and he was God, but out here in the real world, there's STILL a lot of debate about whether he lived at all. There are ZERO non-Christian contemporary accounts of his existance. The same cannot be said of, let's say, Mohammed, whose historical existance can be verified in such a way. The Gospels weren't written until a century after his supposed life.”
LOL…Oh gosh this is funny because even the most radical left wings scholars known as the “Jesus Seminar” led by Dr. Marcus Borg and Dr. John Dominic Crossan (who is an avowed atheist) do not even agree with this statement! LOL…You are so out of your league on this one it is not even funny! LOL…You have no idea what is being debated in the New Testament or Christological areas of theological debate. Give it up you lame hissy fit amateur. Zero accounts huh, yeah well I guess when you take people like Josephus, Tacitus, and Suetonius and others yeah then I guess there would be “zero” accounts! LOL…Geeze what an ignorant fool you are. Even liberal and secular scholars do not put the Gospel accounts that late, because they are cited as being circulated and well known in earlier church writing such as Ignatius, Papias, the Didache, the Epistle of Barnabas, and etc. Get a clue moron.
The Obama Drone wrote:
“Read and be educated...
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.ht”
Oh geeze, look another blog! Why am I not surprised! Ya know for such a great researcher you would think he would at least hit some well known research libraries in the Chicago area such as the massive research libraries at Northwestern University or the University of Chicago. Heck I used Northwestern’s massive research library all the time. Maybe it is because even liberal schools like Garrett Seminary (a branch of Northwestern University) do not subscribe to his nutty claims.
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Look, I know they teach you in Funditard U that Jesus was real and he was God, but out here in the real world, there's STILL a lot of debate about whether he lived at all.
There are ZERO non-Christian contemporary accounts of his existance. The same cannot be said of, let's say, Mohammed, whose historical existance can be verified in such a way. The Gospels weren't written until a century after his supposed life.
JESUS IS A FAIRY TALE. Deal with it.
Read and be educated...
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
Now on to your other claims.
Grover Cleveland didn't "quit". He won his election, but was denied the presidency by that affront to common sense, the electoral college. He came back and won again.
Teddy Roosevelt didn't quit. FDR didn't quit. JFK didn't quit. All of these other FIRSTS don't invalidate my question.
CAN YOU NAME ANYONE WHO QUIT THEIR POSITION AFTER BEING HIT WITH MASSIVE ETHICS CHARGES WHO HAD A FUTURE? Don't answer other question, moron, answer that one.
Sorry, Palin has shown herself to be inept, corrupt and mentally unstable. If she ever runs again, there will be a whole slew of McCain staffers who are going to come out and denounce her. She's toast. |
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The Obama Drone wrote:
“YOu danced around the subject. Who in MODREN HISTORY (not an ancient civilization where the history is questionable) quit their position under a cloud of ethics investigations and went on to get elected to a better office.”
I did not dance around anything. Okay I’ll kick your as* on this front as well, and with a smile! Grover Cleavland first president to serve two terms that were not consecutive, Teddy Roosevelt youngest president in U.S History, F.D.R. first to win four terms as president, J.F.K. first Roman Catholic and the youngest president to be elected. Nixon first president to lose a White House bid and to come back and win it eight years later, Gerald Ford first person to become president without having gone through any popular elections. As I said before history is a long record of firsts! But what is so sad, is that it matters not whether the historical firsts are modern or ancient, you are ignorant at both! Aaaawwwhhhh… what’s a matter the little Obama Drone upset that he could not make a career as a historian???? Well I guess that is what happens when you combine a UIC education with a man who has a low IQ. LOL
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The Obama Drone wrote:
“Actually, what they teach you at secular colleges is that Jesus probably didn't exist and was an amalgamation of myths about other characters. For instance, the whole "rising from the dead in a cave" was stolen from Mithraism.”
Actually few people even the most liberal secular theologians do not hold this view. It ran out of favor way back in the 1930’s. Too bad if UIC was actually a decent school they would have caught up to current scholarship on the subject. All professional ancient historians and theologians (liberal and conservative) know that it was Mithraism who had a history of borrowing from other faiths, not Christianity. Also, Christianity was firmly rooted before Mithraism really took off in the Roman World. See if you weren’t stupid and had a better education you would know this, but my guess is that you got your info from some hissy fit kid’s blog. Wow, can we all be great researchers like you? Oh wait, this would mean that academic scholarship would have to be sacrificed in order to do that. Oh well, it was a thought.
The Obama Drone wrote:
"UIC didn't teach mythology, it taught history. That's what you don't seem to understand. Now, Mind you, it was an initial shock for me, coming from the Catholic school for 12 years and realizing they'd kept me in the Mushroom Farm (you know, keep you in the dark and feed you manure!).”
Oh so you grew Catholic so what, who cares…lol Any other great arguments? You still no diick about history, ancient, medieval, or modern. You illiterate in three time periods spanning every continent in the world. Gosh, must be hard work being that stupid, or does it just come naturally to you? Hmmm...UIC must have also offered a major in CRAP which is what you peddle around here. LOL
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AC- Who at the time would have considered that a crucified Jewish man would be rightfully acknowledged as The Son of God?
Me- Actually, what they teach you at secular colleges is that Jesus probably didn't exist and was an amalgamation of myths about other characters. For instance, the whole "rising from the dead in a cave" was stolen from Mithraism.
AC- Ah...perhaps they did not teach you these facts in your supposed history classes, that history is but a long record of those who break the mold and go on to do great things. Must have been the quality education at UIC that has produced such ignorance or maybe it is your blatent stupidity. It could be the former but I suspect it is the latter.
Me- UIC didn't teach mythology, it taught history. That's what you don't seem to understand. Now, Mind you, it was an initial shock for me, coming from the Catholic school for 12 years and realizing they'd kept me in the Mushroom Farm (you know, keep you in the dark and feed you manure!)
YOu danced around the subject. Who in MODREN HISTORY (not an ancient civilization where the history is questionable) quit their position under a cloud of ethics investigations and went on to get elected to a better office.
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Didn't believe he was wearing magic underpants and thought he was going to be a God on his own planet. |
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Wow, you are exactly right. It is over three years until the 2012 election and so much can, and will, happen between now and then. Yet just the mention of Mitt Romney brings out a viciousness from so called conservatives normally reserved for Obama and his ilk.
You people don't understand that this is a man who wants the same freedoms and limited government that you constantly whine about losing? Yet look how many of you turn again to bashing his religious beliefs. It's like you can't wait to attack, yet have not the time nor the interest to post something constructive regarding this most important and precious of our nations historical holidays.
You all should be ashamed, and take a look inward.
I will repeat my assertion - Reagan, a former governor who was formerly pro-choice also came up short on his first attempt at the presidency. Instead, we ended up with Jimmy Carter and look where that led. Without Jimmy Carter we may have never got Reagan. I see many similarities with Obama and the Jimmy Carter years.
Don't sell Romney short.
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The Obama Drone wrote:
"Quick, can you name someone who quit their job under a cloud of ethics investigations in mid term who then went on to gain higher office. Go ahead, we're waiting. Come on, it's like saying Blago has a future."
Obviously The Obama Drone did not read my post. Let's play this game shall we? Name someone who before Lucius Cornelius Sulla marched his troops into Rome? Who before Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon? Name thirteen colonies who took on one of the greastest super powers at the time (Great Britain) and won before the American Revolution? Who at the time would have considered that a crucified Jewish man would be rightfully acknowledged as The Son of God? Ah...perhaps they did not teach you these facts in your supposed history classes, that history is but a long record of those who break the mold and go on to do great things. Must have been the quality education at UIC that has produced such ignorance or maybe it is your blatent stupidity. It could be the former but I suspect it is the latter.
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Oh, I know what your silly position is on Palin's decision.
Quick, can you name someone who quit their job under a cloud of ethics investigations in mid term who then went on to gain higher office. Go ahead, we're waiting. Come on, it's like saying Blago has a future.
What's her next stop... "I'm a Celebrity, Get me out of here!" |
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Mitt didn't get to be as filthy rich as he is by making bad judgment calls. He knows Palin sank McCain and he isn't going to go there.
Palin is over. Her own staff said she was starting to lose it, and frankly, judging by that press conference, I'd have to agree. |
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Eugene aka The Obama Drone aka the Dumb As* your posts against me would actually be worth reading if you took the time to actually know what my opinion is on Sarah Palin's decision is. As I have already posted this is a good political move for her regardless of what many political pundits say, because what they say and write is meaningless to me because they were already dead set against her. If you actually knew anything about Sarah Palin you would know that this is her MO and it has served her well in her political career. |
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I would not be surprised to see a Romney/ Palin ticket in 2012, I think that Sarah may be looking at the New Conservative Candidate. She is aware of the falling down in standards in the Republican Party and has watched how thousands are pushing for a NEW Party. She is not stupid on the importance of keeping in the public eye. I think she has a plan to search out our country for supporters, and get into the minds of the tax payers that have lost so much in this last election. Sarah, has a STRONG Will of Independence in working through what is best for our country, I have faith in her abilities to lead and to bring our country back... |
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Still in shock over Caribou Barbie's implosion, eh?
Look, it's probably going to be another round of Huckabee and Romney arguing over whether Jesus and Satan were sharing bunk beds on Kolob again... Which I'm all for. Showing the rest of the country how crazy the religious right is would be the best antidote against it. |
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Oh Townhall supporting Romney again, what a big freaking surprise. Well I should not be surprised since the fall of Bobby Jindal which I predicted month in advance took place. Look Matt Lewis, get this into your little head, okay, are you paying attention? MITT ROMNEY WILL NEVER WIN THE GOP PRIMARY AND HE WILL NEVER BE PRESIDENT!
Just repeat it over and over again like a mantra so that it sinks into that thick head of yours. My gosh you would think these guys would have learned from last year! |
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there's just as much bias, if not more towards Huckabee for being a so called theocrat. |
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I would vote for Mitt but he would lose because of the inner bias people still have for his religious views. Now America supposedly overcome its Black Bias and we got not a black guy that we knew, but a socialist pacifist tyrant no matter his skin color that nobody knows! So the Pubs may have to go with a guy or gal who is a newbie to the national scene. So far, that person has not made national splashes. Jindal's time will come and so will Pence . So perhaps the Pubs better look toward a Barbour, DeMint, Thune or someone who cannot be cemented to the Old Guard because Huck cannot win nationally either. But, perhaps two dynamic , say a guy and and a gal like Thune-Bachmann could turn the tables if, if they start now. The 2008 people will not be in the running for 2012 is my guess. But, again, who knows. After all if a lib radical like Obama can win against the Clintons, anything can happen. |
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"They won't see the Saracuda
till she's got her teeth in their behinds!!! Remember how quickly they dismissed that "loser" Reagan after 1976? Underestimate her at your peril!"
Ronald Reagan didn't walk away from his responsiblities as Governor after having a crying fit.
In fact, Reagan's behavior was exactly the opposite of Sarah's. He got behind President Ford and was a class act throughout the Carter years.
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till she's got her teeth in their behinds!!! Remember how quickly they dismissed that "loser" Reagan after 1976? Underestimate her at your peril!
-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!! |
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No one is lying about Romney- and he's not my neighbor anyway...
Why keep a Sabbath Holy. There is no Invisible Sky Pixie who cares.
And I do know the Mormons by their fruits... They are the most back stabbing mother-lovers I've ever met in my life and I wouldn't trust one of them as far as I could throw them... |
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thou shalt not lie
thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor
remember the sabbath and keep it holy
whereby their fruits you shall know them
maybe some of you could use a pastor or something...
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Incredible how those who are predisposed to sucking large amounts of space on threads such as this one--------had nary a word to say on one of those established for July 4th appreciation or celebration. Nope.
These people cannot get their fingers typing fast enough to express their bitterness towards Mitt Romney, yet, have not a moment to spare to share a thought about what Independence Day means to them. Oh yeah, they've got their computer humming along, just not for words of appreciation.
Theirs is a bigger focus.
Much bigger.
Huge.
Massive.
Gargantuan in scope and purpose, theirs is.
Their brains have no time to spare, not for them. Not a moment to lose in using that same energy, this similar process to articulate what it means to be free, to be part of the most abundant country in the world.
How simply telling is this? |
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Albert- I oppose romney because he is a liberal.
Uh, no Eugene, my complaint with Romney is that he is a liberal who illegally instituted same sex marriage and who established abortion with a $50 co-pay in his healthcare plan.
Romney wasn't "following the law" as you say when he illegally issued marriage licenses to same sex couples without a binding accompanying statute.
Me- the Supreme Court of Massachusetts declared that the State had no choice but to issue same sex marriage licenses, and honestly, why do you care. We have a collapsing economy, a couple of wars going on, etc. and you're worried about THAT? Man, get your priorities straight.
Albert- Nor did any "law" force him to sign in tax subsidized abortions in his healthcare plan.
Do your research before you shoot from the hip.
The fact that Romney believes that when he dies that he will be a gof of his own planet doesn't bother me as much as the fact that he is the Founding Father of sodomy "marriage" and the $50 dollar Romneyborts.
Me- Again, so what? Abortion is legal in this country, and most people support that.
Honestly, I could almost tolerate Gov. Romney if he wasn't a Mormon. But his handlers told him that McCain had the moderate side of the street locked up. |
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if Romney was the nominee, it would be like Reagan vs. Mondale...Mondale won his home state and that's it...Mitt would win Utah...that's about it.
HUCK 2012!!!!!!!!!! |
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Romney will be my absolute last choice. Palin, Jindal, Hunter, Pense, Ashcroft, Pawlenty, Thompson, Perry, or somebody else. But please God, not Gingrich, poor confused global warmist. Pease not Romney, why on earth would a conservative want Romney? As far as I'm concerned, I'm shocked that Mormons were as liberal as Romney, it wasn't what I'd been told. |
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answer your questions.
Contact me at either of my commerical web addresses and I'll contact you.
http://www.winninginthemargins.com (passkey is longlife). Let it run to the end (ignore if you want) and register at end. I'll get that email. No one else will.
If that takes too long, I have another commerical interest. Try colleen@tni.com.
Axe -- off to watch a movie with hubby so I'll leave the board to others. See my patriotic comments on God Bless Amer (Carol's essay.) |
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Since Romney is the "only adult" who might run on the Republican ticket, what are some of his great ideas for solving our economic fiasco?
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Uh, no Eugene, my complaint with Romney is that he is a liberal who illegally instituted same sex marriage and who established abortion with a $50 co-pay in his healthcare plan.
http://www.undergroundjournal.net/igroops/theunderground/ad minpages/WarnLetCovrUpRomn
Romney wasn't "following the law" as you say when he illegally issued marriage licenses to same sex couples without a binding accompanying statute.
Nor did any "law" force him to sign in tax subsidized abortions in his healthcare plan.
Do your research before you shoot from the hip.
The fact that Romney believes that when he dies that he will be a gof of his own planet doesn't bother me as much as the fact that he is the Founding Father of sodomy "marriage" and the $50 dollar Romneyborts. |
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So your complaint with Romney is that he actually follows the laws of his state, rather than Religious Dogma? |
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As much as I enjoy watching Evangelicals and Mormons beat each other senseless, you both need to chill... |
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we authentic conservatives oppose Romney because we don't like ex-governors who:
• Established abortion with a $50 co pay as a “healthcare benefit” (AFTER his supposed “pro life conversion”) in his socialist healthcare plan that was endorsed by Hillary, Teddy K, and Planned Parenthood.
• Appointed a Planned Parenthood member to his healthcare advisory board (AFTER his supposed “pro-life conversion”) and no pro-life appointed representative.
• Illegally instituted same sex “marriage” without an accompanying legal statute to fulfill an earlier promise to the Log Cabin Republicans not to oppose same sex “marriage” in return for their endorsement? (There was no “court order” as Romney has falsely asserted as you know.)
• Boosted government funding for pro-homosexuality indoctrination of schoolchildren, and refused to order his education officials to enforce parents’ legal right to protect their own children from unwanted indoctrination about homosexuality.
• Forced Catholic Charities to place children with homosexual couples or go out of business (which they ultimately did) even though he was not required to do so by law.
• Forced Catholic Hospitals to provide the abortion pill claiming that he was required by law to do so even though Mike Dukakis admitted there was no law that existed which required Romney to do so.
• Opposes a ban on homosexual scoutmasters.
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May I ask you some questions, and opinions regarding your religion? |
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same nonsensical arguments about a year ago during the primaries?
Romney boot-licker, Matt Lewis writes:
"Speaking of which, it seems, at this point, Romney really has to worry about only former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee and former Speaker Newt Gingrich. Regardless, neither Gingrich nor Huckabee will have the organization or fundraising prowess that Romney can put together."
Earth to Matt. Isn't this what you were saying last year when Huckabee who was outspent and out "organized" 50-1 beat Romeny like a rented mule?
Matt, nobobdy believes you. You have zero credibility.
You are merely cut and pasting the same exact talking points from the 08 primary.
Get of the Rommey Kool Aid Matt.
Romney is neither a conservative or a Republican.
And neither are you, Hewitt, Medved, Prager, Galagher, Bennett, Ingraham, Hannity or any of the other Romniac mercenary celebrity conservatives at Townhall/Salem Radio.
No wonder Salem's stock is at about 50 cents.
You guys are losers who back losing candidates like Mitt "Zombie" Romney. |
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In your world the choice is between 4 more years of the illegal Muslim Kenyan and anti-Chrstical cutlts?
If the GOP loses, it will be because of the backwoods fundies like you.
People in the real world, even the uber-conservative real world, like Romney. Go back to your snakes. |
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nominate liberal Romney in 2012.
Enough already from you Romney's prostitutes at Townhall/Salem Radio from Hewitt, to Matt Lewis, to Bill Bennett to the CEO of Salem Stu Epperson who is an intransigent Romney supporter:
Repeat after me:
Romney illegally instituted sodomy "marriage" and established 50 dollar Romneyborts. He is a liberal in a Reagan Costume.
Romney was soundly rejected by grassroots conservatives who don't like baby killing pro-sodomites who belong to anti-Chrstical cutlts.
Choose an authentic Christian conservative or be prepared for 4 more years of the illegal Muslim Kenyan in the White House...
Matt, take down the Romney poster from your basement wall where you "blog" from and lay off the dam Romney Kool Aid.
You have been overserved.
This is getting embarassing... |
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WW- "I have family who know him personally through academic, industry, and religious connections - over many years. They like him as a human being and find him to be a person of integrity. That's a good endorcement for me."
Me- Well, I don't know him, and what I've seen I don't like. And yes, my own biases against LDS are in play here.
But here's my biggest problem with Romney. He's completely switched his positions on issues in the last few years. He was a pro-immigration reform, pro-gay rights, pro-choice, moderate Republicans when he ran Massachusetts. He's now an anti-illegal, anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion kind of guy.
Now, I don't have a problem with that. My own views on a lot of issues have changed in the last few years. (Mostly because life ran over me like a freight train and I realized what I believed was bull-crap.) What I don't see is where the evolution came in, other than his consultants told him that McCain and Guiliani had the moderate side of the street sewn up and he had to go for the ultra-conservative side. |
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"WW-I'm LDS and no one bashes me on this site. People disagree with what I write but don't bash me as a person or claim that I believe the things you write that you think I believe...."
Me- Well, that's because you come off as very non-confrontational. (Unlike your buddy MaineCon, who has been waging a jihad for the last year.) But what I don't see you or other LDS say is "Hey, Axe, you made this claim about magic underwear, and you totally got it wrong as to what that was about!"
WW- "Anyway, the clearing of the candidate field is certainly interesting. As an electorate we may be collectively shifting our required character traits and experience we need in the next POTUS. Obama is an interesting study in incompetence, unfortunately. Romney's skills and abilities are vastly superior to Obama's. I believe his level of patriotism is also vastly superior."
Me - Again, I don't see how. My first measure of "patriotism" is, did they ever serve in the armed forces. Neither one of them did. My second is, are they willing to serve their country in other ways. Both of them were. As far as abilities, Romney had more money than God, but still lost the nomination to McCain who had been declared dead the previous year. Obama took a shoestring campaign and beat the heir to the Democrats greatest political machine. YOu tell me who has better political skills.
WW- People want to sleeve a political templete or label on Mitt to pigeon-hole him in their minds. But we need to listen to Mitt when he talks about an issue or a certain solution or even his history and not be so quick to grab a sound bite before he's given us a full, complete answer.
Me- All well and good. But nobody has time for in depth answers. We all are compressed into the 10 second sound byte. If Romney can't master that skill, it's really his own fault.
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...never read nor respond to Eugene. He's an attention-starved toxic loon that loves to bait people into engaging him in endless nuttiness.
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"Axe -- you may be Mitt's best PR tool as you bash him for his faith and distort a Bain's case. To be fair, you should discuss all the success stories such as Staples, etc."
Me- Why should he get the credit for the hard work of employees? Most of his business success happened in the 1990's, where you had to be pretty darned incompetent to fail a business, yet in a few cases, he and Bain managed to do exactly that.
WW- American's judge candidates on the basis of experience, character, and platform.
Me- I think you are being somewhat naive. There are evangelicals here who hate Mormons more than I do. I can't see them putting that aside to elect Romney, especially if they conclude Obama isn't doing THAT bad of a job. (ie. the economy is actually better than it is now.)
But on experience, he has only one term as a governor, and for his character and platform, he's going to have to check with his consultants to tell you what that is.
WW- Most Americans know or work with someone who's LDS and can recognize that a lot of your 'transference anger' towards Mitt because he's a Mormon is mean spirited, convoluted logic, and just plain bogus information.
Me- I never encountered LDS before 1983 and never encountered them since. Heck, I'm from the state that shot Joseph Smith...
WW-(Axe, you notice I always defend your right to write what you choose and I don't second any personal character attacks on you.)
Me- Quite right. You don't. In fact, to be fair, you've always been quite civil. As opposed to others who think that I'm Arihor or whatever his name is. (You know, the only likable character in the BOM.)
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Romney in 2012....
Joseph Eugene Ax -- you may be Mitt's best PR tool as you bash him for his faith and distort a Bain's case. To be fair, you should discuss all the success stories such as Staples, etc.
American's judge candidates on the basis of experience, character, and platform.
Most Americans know or work with someone who's LDS and can recognize that a lot of your 'transference anger' towards Mitt because he's a Mormon is mean spirited, convoluted logic, and just plain bogus information.
Go Mormon.com or ask a friend if what Axe writes is correct.
(Axe, you notice I always defend your right to write what you choose and I don't second any personal character attacks on you.)
I'm LDS and no one bashes me on this site. People disagree with what I write but don't bash me as a person or claim that I believe the things you write that you think I believe....
Anyway, the clearing of the candidate field is certainly interesting. As an electorate we may be collectively shifting our required character traits and experience we need in the next POTUS. Obama is an interesting study in incompetence, unfortunately. Romney's skills and abilities are vastly superior to Obama's. I believe his level of patriotism is also vastly superior.
People want to sleeve a political templete or label on Mitt to pigeon-hole him in their minds. But we need to listen to Mitt when he talks about an issue or a certain solution or even his history and not be so quick to grab a sound bite before he's given us a full, complete answer.
I have family who know him personally through academic, industry, and religious connections - over many years. They like him as a human being and find him to be a person of integrity. That's a good endorcement for me. |
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"he [Romney]looks presidential, just like a Ken doll,"
Damn. Anything I say would just detract from the hilarity...
Exactly what is a President supposed to look like, because I've never seen one who looks like a "Ken Doll". In fact, most look like middle aged splotchy white guys, except for the current one.
Look Republican voters didn't think Romney was all that great in 2008, what is going to be different in 2012? |
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"4.) As for Romney's presentation, where does he stand on anything? He's a social liberal one moment, a social conservative the next. He's for mandating you purchase health insurance one moment to fighting on the behalf of the free market the next. Guns, abortion, gay marriage, and a whole host of other issues he's done a complete 180 on."
Romney is the Stepford (Wife) Candidate, manufactured to please whomever he's with.
Why do Republicans continue to trot out these pod-people? I watch Fox News and keep expecting to see Kevin McCarthy running past Neil Cavuto yelling "They're coming...you're next!"
I guess that since the Democrats proved that you could win with a mannequin reading scripts from a teleprompter the Republicans figure that's the way to do it.
The only difference between Obama and Romney is Obama knows what he wants - the complete destruction of capitalism, individualism and freedom. Romney just wants to grow up to be President. |
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Palin still energizes the party. Palin has baggage, as far as the left is concerned. The left still can't see straight when she is the center of attention. I didn't like to see her walk away from Alaska, but if this is the start of her run for president it will not be as big a deal that she left the state early seeing Obama was not in the senate that much during his run for the White House. Palin will use this time to her advantage if she is going to make a run. If Palin can do alot of campaigning for her party and bring money and interest to the one she is campaigning for it well go along way for her. I would not believe all the BS about she is not tough enough to take the shots she gets, I tend to believe that she doesn't want to have to defend herself and cost the state more money and time. I think she is much tougher than most give her credit. |
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but got stuck with John McCain. I live in a small town outside Jacksonville, Fl. It's the town where McCain's family lived while waiting for him to be released from the Hanoi Hilton.
Funny thing is, McCain lost the small town but won in South Florida. McCain won the hispanic vote because they know where he stands on illegal immigration. He's for it.
If Romney runs in 2012 he'll be the Republican presidental candidate. He's got gravitas, he looks presidential, just like a Ken doll, he's well-spoken, he has good solid marraige and he's a successful businessman. He's the total package.
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"4.) As for Romney's presentation, where does he stand on anything? He's a social liberal one moment, a social conservative the next. He's for mandating you purchase health insurance one moment to fighting on the behalf of the free market the next. Guns, abortion, gay marriage, and a whole host of other issues he's done a complete 180 on. Might I point out that Romney was Governor of MASSACHUSETTS - one of the most liberal states in the union. Three guesses as to why the bastion of liberalism voted for him! It might have something to do with his political persuasion..."
Exactly! Romney is a phony conservative. I would not vote for him in the primaries. |
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Whatever the rino romney paid for that he PAID TOO MUCH! LOL! |
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the best man for the job is Mike Huckabee with Palin as his vp, so get behind him and push, push, push for him to oust the dictator Obama in 2012! |
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BOYCOTT Nashville! algore's hometown!
BOYCOTT Nashville to protest AlGore's Cap & Trade Fraud and for Nashville DA Torry Johnson's refusal to investigate Pedophilia by Obama supporters in Nashville.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/04/nas hville-da-refuses-to-investigate-child-marriage-pedophilia- child-abuse-in-shariah-classes.html
BOYCOTT Nashville!
There is an ongoing criminal conspiracy among Obama supporters in Nashville to cover up crimes committed by his campaign in 2007, 2008 and 2009. These crimes include, but are not limited to, VOTER FRAUD, IDENTITY THEFT, COMPUTER THEFT, INVASION OF PRIVACY and petty BURGLARIES similar to WATERGATE.
Grand Jury forming in Nashville to Investigate crimes committed in 2008 Election.
http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/06/nashville-citizen s-grand-jury-forming.html
BOYCOTT Nashville! |
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sorry for that misunderstanding on my part about the email addy that I thought was a cite; I had a brianfart today. It happens too frequently these days. |
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Well, it certainly didn't take long for All Romney All The Time Townhall/Salem Radio to try to ressurect the phony conservative Mormon Romney.
My God, do you folks at Townhall/Salem realize that we ain't buying what you are sellin and that we as conservatives won't ever support a man who illegally installed same-sex marriage and established $50 abortions as a "healthcare benefit" in his socialist healthcare plan?
I thought Townhall was supposed to be conservative.
Enough Romniacs like Hewitt, Bennett, Matt Lewis and the CEO of Salem Stu Epperson.
Lay off the Kool Aid.
We Christians and conservatives will NEVER support a baby killing pro-sodomite.
Capiche? |
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I voted for Romney last year in the primary. I thought he was the only one who could stop McCain. There was no way mcCain could win. But since November I have really lost my faith in Romney. Mainly since now there was Palin. I want a real Christian in office, and get back God's blessings. Palin is still my girl. |
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I voted for Romney last year in the primary. I thought he was the only one who could stop McCain. There was no way mcCain could win. But since November I have really lost my faith in Romney. Mainly since now there was Palin. I want a real Christian in office, and get back God's blessings. Palin is still my girl. |
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I went to the cite; several there and I don't know which one I am to read. |
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the Republican and Democrat Parties by supporting Conservative Candidates like Huckabee and Palin for the Party Nomination. They can't make us vote for a CROOKED rino or dem.
In Tennessee, there are Good Republicans like Rep. Marsha Blackburn that we want to keep in Congress.
Sorry dems but I can't think of any decent dem congressmen from Tennessee! |
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K.G., since you are in California, it is no wonder you are without a clue. You and your fellow wealthy, smart, good-looking friends are bankrupt of morals, money, and reason. You and your (Republican, pro-abortion) Governor are now issuing IOU's. It's a total disgrace.
The Republicans will only win California in the Presidential election in a landslide scenario. Therefore, favoring a candidate because of electability in places like California is unreasonable.
I would like to see a third party led by someone like Huckabee.
Assuming that does not happen, I'll vote for Mike Huckabee in the Republican primary. |
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Here's some restoration, reformation, & revolution that Our Founding Fathers supported:
1) Advertise and Promote the Fact that you are forming a Grand Jury in Blogs, Local Newspapers and Community Organizations.
2) Form the Grand Jury and select a Foreman.
3) Select a Private Attorney General to make Presentments to Grand Jury, if local DA refuses to make presentments.
4) Select a convenient Meeting Place.
5) Communicate with all Citizens who have criminal information to present.
6) Schedule presentments by said Citizens.
7) Subpoena documents from Government Offices and Officials.
8) Schedule presentment of said Documents to Grand Jury by Grand Jury Attorney General.
9) Have Grand Jury Attorney General present said Documents to Grand Jury.
10) After investigation and deliberation is completed, vote and issue a True Bill (Indictment) or No True Bill.
11) Announce all Indictments to the Press.
12) Serve the Indictment on the Judiciary for the Issuance of Arrest Warrants. |
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“I have nothing to hide but I’m hiding it.”
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Okay. Love “I have nothing to hide but I’m hiding it.”
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Ronna, email L_Patriot@yahoo.com
or (lowercase) l_Patriot@yahoo.com
I look forward to hearing from you, Ronna.
L_Patriot |
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nothing more than the Will to Take Our Country back the Good Citizens of Texas INDICTED bo.
bo has also been INDICTED by Grand Juries in Alabama, Georgia, Virginia, Illinois et al.
I encourage Tea Parties but what these Texas Patriots have done is much more meaningful. This is the only way that We the People will get Our Country back.
You can replace the dems in congress with rinos all you want but nothing is going to change, the majority of congress will always be CROOKED. Remember the Contract with America in 1994? How long did it take before most of the rinos broke their Contract with US? |
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"Then, Richard, Maybe the anti-smarts, anti-wealth, anti-looks, anti-establishment wing of the Republican party needs to come to the party and get over their silly sniveling. Reverse snobbery is not only unbecoming and unchristian, it's counterproductive."
Man, I wish I had said that! That very thought has been in my mind ever since the 2008 GOP primaries.
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Agreed.
Is there a way to contact you directly and confidentionally? |
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Criminal Info to a Grand Jury. Nor do you need money to Organize a Citizens Grand Jury.
But unless Patriots start taking action we will NEVER be able to get rid of the CROOKS in Government that are robbing us blind.
If we don't act soon bo will stack the Supreme Court with radical/liberal judges like sotomayor and then we will have no hope. The dems will control the Presidency, the Congress and the Courts. |
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in 2012 because Romney is intelligent and capable but not trustworthy by a lot of people, and he's boring -absolutely no personality.
Palin will considered by most (not me) as a quitter and not a good choice. She's like a Poodle up against a Puma, a David against Golliath (only in a dress). She would have to grow a set (and that's impossible) to take on this den of Liberal pirrhanas. Newt is very 'qual'ified but had been 'villi'fied for his marriage woes, and doesn't come across as ready to take on the liberal establishment. (unfortunate).
Jindal is too young and isn't interested enough to fight with any believable determination.
Crist is out, period. He's a mirage, no one knows exactly who he is or where he stands.
Huckabee is the real deal, a highly qualified, "what you see is what you get" guy who can and will help America heal from the wounds that will be inflicted by the Hitler regime that will unfortunately be occupying the white house for the next 4 years.
HUCKABEE 2012! |
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Those are all good suggestions. But I don't have $1B to fight Obama's $.
And he will keep getting money every day, from sources unknown.
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..reckless. BHO is a total wreck. |
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although I would much rather have Romney as our resident ~commander and ~thief because he is intelligent and woudl be great in healing our ecenomy woes, I feel that Huckabee is the future,the way and the light. HUCKABEE 2012! |
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...here in SoCal, mostly Dems. Palin is HATED with a passion. I don't believe she deserves it, but there it is. Huckabee is scorned.
But Mitt? I've found Dems, Pubs and even the apolitical are willing to consider Mitt. He's respected because he's been successful in the private sector and knows more about business than most pols who've spend the lives in politics and live in Lala Land.
People feel secure with Romney and are willing to consider him more than any others right now. Once people see that BHO is a wreckless ideologue, people will be looking for stability and dependability. |
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any Citizen can do:
Here's some restoration, reformation, & revolution that Our Founding Fathers supported:
1) Advertise and Promote the Fact that you are forming a Grand Jury in Blogs, Local Newspapers and Community Organizations.
2) Form the Grand Jury and select a Foreman.
3) Select a Private Attorney General to make Presentments to Grand Jury, if local DA refuses to make presentments.
4) Select a convenient Meeting Place.
5) Communicate with all Citizens who have criminal information to present.
6) Schedule presentments by said Citizens.
7) Subpoena documents from Government Offices and Officials.
8) Schedule presentment of said Documents to Grand Jury by Grand Jury Attorney General.
9) Have Grand Jury Attorney General present said Documents to Grand Jury.
10) After investigation and deliberation is completed, vote and issue a True Bill (Indictment) or No True Bill.
11) Announce all Indictments to the Press.
12) Serve the Indictment on the Judiciary for the Issuance of Arrest Warrants.
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...anti-smarts, anti-wealth, anti-looks, anti-establishment wing of the Republican party needs to come to the party and get over their silly sniveling. Reverse snobbery is not only unbecoming and unchristian, it's counterproductive.
The touchy-feely-I-wanna-relate-to-you president just got elected and look where that got us. Aborted live babies dying in a utility room, 10% and growing unemployment, the spector of rising taxes for all income groups, financial bondage for generations and baby boomers with little or no retirement.
Romney has clearly stated his position on abortion: He's personally against it. He believes in Right to Life. He believes Roe was wrongly decided. He believes in federalism. He believes abortion law should revert to the states.
Look. I don't care who the Pubs run for 2012. But get over yourselves and make certain it's an intelligent, knowledgeable person with some kind of successful resume that might be able to get us out of the economic problems that are getting worse by the day.
Someone who talks about the future of the US dollar and the need to complete with China may not appeal to your backwoods need for stimulating charisma and "relating," but some of us Republicans here in CA are looking for someone who can right the economic ship--not a new BF.
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You are right, but we can't influence public opinion by talking to folks at Town Hall. They are already in our court.
We need to reach out in our communities. Talk to your local bakery, dry cleaner, etc.
Look at what has happened in St. Louis! McCarthur Brothers take on Russ Carnahan. |
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want We the People must 1st ENFORCE Our Election Laws!
Here's some restoration, reformation, & revolution that Our Founding Fathers supported:
1) Advertise and Promote the Fact that you are forming a Grand Jury in Blogs, Local Newspapers and Community Organizations.
2) Form the Grand Jury and select a Foreman.
3) Select a Private Attorney General to make Presentments to Grand Jury, if local DA refuses to make presentments.
4) Select a convenient Meeting Place.
5) Communicate with all Citizens who have criminal information to present.
6) Schedule presentments by said Citizens.
7) Subpoena documents from Government Offices and Officials.
8) Schedule presentment of said Documents to Grand Jury by Grand Jury Attorney General.
9) Have Grand Jury Attorney General present said Documents to Grand Jury.
10) After investigation and deliberation is completed, vote and issue a True Bill (Indictment) or No True Bill.
11) Announce all Indictments to the Press.
12) Serve the Indictment on the Judiciary for the Issuance of Arrest Warrants.
http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-to-start-and- lead-citizens-grand.html |
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1- Actually, her resignation does put her out. She looks like she folded under pressure, not a good sign for presidential ambitions. If she were a guy, she might be able to get away with it, but a woman can't.
2- Can't see Gingrich ever being viable as a candidate. Too much baggage. But I agree, another Huck vs. Mitt "My Sky Pixie can beat up your Sky Pixie" argument would get ugly really fast.
3- I agree. Mitt supporters' really only think the economy is doing well if the millionaires are, not average folks. It is their undoign.
4- Mitt has no core beliefs. He runs on what his handlers tell him will play. And that's kind of scary.
5- There's a reason the establishment supports Romney. He's their guy. This is what I've been pointing out for about a year. No one listens. You social cons are being played, and they've been playing you since Reagan. They get you upset about guns or gays or abortion, and then proceed to dismantle your nice, middle class lifestyle while doing very little about the thing you're upset about. (After all, doing something would actually mean taking it off the table as your issue and giving the other guys an issue.)
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3 years is a long time ,I doubt romney with his lack of core values ,being deviod of charisma and completely out of touch with middle america will be around .Who knows who will rise to the occasion ? Speculation is pointless at this time.
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1 man Election.
All juan mccain had to do to win in 2008 was expose bo for the CRIMINAL-PERVERT that he is, but what does juan do?
juan gets STUCK on STUPID and attacks his on Supporters in Minnesota, "No ma"m, U R WRONG! BO is a CITIZEN and a FAMILY MAN." sez juan. |
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I can see the Mittwits of Townhall are still out and about.
1.) Palin's resignation has not guaranteed she is out for 2012. 2012 is still 3 years away, and this decision gives her plenty of time for preparing and the promotion of the Conservative agenda (like another one-term governor, Romney, had).
2.) Don't count a nasty primary battle out. Huckabee will still be a contender, Gingrich may get into the match, Jindal will be in play, and Crist may show up too.
3.) We're all well-aware of Romney's fat cat ties. If you think that makes him qualified, does his endorsement by *Kathleen Parker* help too?
4.) As for Romney's presentation, where does he stand on anything? He's a social liberal one moment, a social conservative the next. He's for mandating you purchase health insurance one moment to fighting on the behalf of the free market the next. Guns, abortion, gay marriage, and a whole host of other issues he's done a complete 180 on. Might I point out that Romney was Governor of MASSACHUSETTS - one of the most liberal states in the union. Three guesses as to why the bastion of liberalism voted for him! It might have something to do with his political persuasion...
5.) Regarding funding, he outspent Huckabee somehwere between 15 or 20 to 1, and still lost Iowa. Money can buy you many things in life, but happiness and votes are not included.
It's really shameless how you, Limbaugh, Coulter, Parker, Will, and others shill for the guy. And again, we all ask, where are his credentials as a Conservative? Business leader? Sure. But don't forget that business also "sold out" the Conservative movement and backed Obama this past election. Conservatism is not the same thing as deferring to fatcats. |
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...siders. None of them.
They live in some fantasy world taught them by their economically illiterate leftist professors.
Currently our country is held captive by an axis of evil: utopian academics, the entitlement class and coniving, ruthless billionaires a la George Soros.
The only hope? Convince enough voters that more and more people sucking on to the public sow will destroy the country.
Right now we are not a nation of stand-up, grown-up men and women but a band of simpering little piglets, whining for a warm t-t.
We saw how this worked during FDR (a disaster) and how it's working in CA (a disaster). There is no need to simply theorize whether or not progressivism will work.
We've seen this movie before; and it's a total horror show.
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Not only do we have to endure the disaster of the Obama presidency, we also have to put up with the Republican establishment endlessly promoting Mitt Romney for President.
I frankly believe it is impossible for the Republican establishment to relate to many millions of Republican voters, but please note a couple of items for your consideration:
Many people don't consider abortion a complicated issue. They think its an abomination. Also, constantly bragging about how smart someone is doesn't automatically impress. Neither does bragging about someone's weath. Most people don't want a handout. But if you don't CARE about people, you might as well stay home and admire yourself in the mirror. We don't want you.
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Your scenario makes a lot of assumptions.
First, we don't know who else is going to come out and play in 2012. Before then, we have the 2010 mid-terms, and that could boost the profiles of people we'd never even think of right now.
Huckabees biggest problem is that the Club for Growth/Economic conservatives will never support him with his anti-Trade, populist views.
Now, I've always said the religious conservatives have been pawns of the economic conservatives. (Who actually gets their agenda passed?) But an outright split of the two factionsmight be interesting to behold.
You call yourself "Rush Con", but the fact is that Rush Drugbaugh pulled out every stop to torpedo Huck in 2008, and I haven't seen anything that would indicate he wouldn't do the same in 2012.
He had no problem with Rudy thrice married, gun-grabbing, gay-hugging, fetus-killin' cross dressing Guliani possibly becoming the nominee, because his corporate masters were probably okay with that. But Huck,man, pull out the axes and batten down the doors, this guy's a "populist!" |
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>should the economy recover
The economy won't recover, because just as this market finally tries to recover itself, the rate of inflation and the increase in interest rates will completely nerf any increase in the economy, resulting in 70's style stagflation.
The fact of the matter is that Obama surrounded himself with political yesmen and there's not a single person among them who knows anything about supply-side economics and it shows more and more every single day. |
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...get, but I also like to eat.
BHO's administration, whether intentional or unintentional is going to drive the economy deeper and deeper into the ditch.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Dow has bounced up a bit--but is languishing.
We have owned a small family business for 35 years years, sweating day and night to keep it going and profitable. We are now hanging on by a thread. If we go down, 50 families go down with us. Fifty more families on food stamps, section 8 housing, unemployment and health care on the taxpayer's dime.
Small businesses employee 75% of American workers and 300 small business a day are going belly up.
Yeah, the crash took place on Bush's watch, but everything that has been done, with the exception of making certain the banks didn't close, has made it worse.
The economy loves stability, predictability and low taxes.... things sorely lacking in BHO's unconstitutional attempts to consolidate government power.
Some loons will make the stupid, stupid, stupid point that the Bush cuts only helped the wealthy. Uh, no. They created a roaring economy while record $$ flowed into government coffers.
It was spending and NINJA loans (both progressive policies) that caused the problems. And it is reckless, insane progressive policies that are making the problems 100 times worse.
Do whatever it takes to get the progressives out of office and restore some fiscal responsiblity and stability so people will have the confidence to invest, expand and hire.
If not, then it's God, gold, guns and gardens. Vote the lame-brained romantic radicals out or it's all coming down.
Romney may not be the a hard cord conservative some want, but neither is he a hard core, America-hating, economy destroying, liberation theology, knee-cap-breaking, Chicago politican lefist.
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Romeny cannot win Iowa. It will never happen. he may win New Hampshire, but Huck will be much closer this time.
It will come down to South Carolina. Sanford will be Gone, the Lt. Governor, I think its Braur, endorsed Huck the last time.
Which brings us to Florida, Romney's last stand.
I believe the new junior senator from Florida, Marco Rubio, will be leaning a certain way in the primary. Huck wins Florida closely but convincingly.
Huck uses the South on Super Tuesday to wrap it up.
He then chooses Pence or Rubio as his running mate and we send the Obammunists on their way. |
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I gave up trying to understand rinos after working on juan mccain's LOSING campaign in 2008.
I think it's kind of simple really:
rinos R LOSERS! |
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He can't carry the base AND he is no match for Obama. besides he's for the public type health care. Nope I wouldn't for him. |
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"Speaking of which, it seems, at this point, Romney really has to worry about only former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee and former Speaker Newt Gingrich. Regardless, neither Gingrich nor Huckabee will have the organization or fundraising prowess that Romney can put together. One can imagine Romney arising as the establishment candidate, and having to fend off Huckabee in states like Iowa and South Carolina in much the same way that George H.W. Bush dispatched of rivals such as Pat Robertson in 1988."
Me- Oh, come on, there are a bunch of reasons why Mitt would be an AWFUL candidate.
First and foremost- and you all get upset when I say it- MORMON!!!!! The Evangelicals in this country will never get behind a Mormon. Neither will a lot of sensible secular people who realize Mormon beliefs are just plain crazy.
Second- The guy has like zero charisma.
Third - When you have an economy full of people afraid for their jobs, the last guy you want to put up is a guy who got richer by putting working stiffs out of their jobs... |
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of this country perhaps Mike Huckabee needs to develope a little more class, because they (those people who 'get off' on crazy) frown on the folksey feel.
I know, Perhaps he should develope his Presidential stature a little ya know; drop a few of the gosh darn's and gee whizzes so those snobs will consider him to be a viable candidate. I mean, who in their right mind would want someone in the white house who is from Arkansas, (Clinton ring a bell?) was raised poor, worshipped God, the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman and respects the sanctity of ALL life. A man who beleives the Constitution should be upheld, who wants LESS government, fewer taxes, (actually the Fair Tax), and more freedoms for the people? A mand who has an tremendous rapport with the people, the common people who really count in the end, and who has a firm grasp on the issues and trials facing America. A mand with the ability to meet those things headon instead of trying to apply a monetary band aid that will cripple the economy of the US for decades to come.
Consider Mike Huckabee in 2012 with Palin as his vp. There couldn't be a better match in dealing with what ails America today. It is time to get back to some semblance of morality and decency and weed out the corrupt politicians from all corners of Washington. Huckabee/Palin 2012! |
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he's campaigning for the 2012 presidential election. How can you say Romney is very tentative in reacting to news events? Wasn't he on Meet the Press last week?
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John McCain's nomination last year was yet another example of how Republicans "always" choose last primary's losing candidate. Lose enough times, while showing loyalty by groveling to the winner, and eventually the party rewards you with the nomination, even if that means we lose the election.
By that rule, it is Romney's "turn".
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Romney still hasn't addressed the problems he faced during the 2008 primary. One thing was anti-Mormon prejudice. Another is that John McCain's bullying tactics, among other things, made Romney look hesitant and wimpish. Romney in general seems to be very tentative in reacting to news events. Mitt also has a history of being liberal on social issues.
Romney is making a big mistake by just sitting back passively. |
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Our primary focus should be to VOTE out the radical libs that have been winning elections by way of media bias and public popularity. It is unreasonable to effectively do this by arguing who is our most conservative candidate. We as conservatives will always vote one way while the libs vote the opposite. What we need is a candidate who is going to appeal to the independents. Let's be honest, this is not going to be Huckabee. The only way that he can beat Obama is if economic conditions continue to decline DRASICALLY over the next 3.33 years.
Romney however, is a candidate that can appeal to moderates on both sides. He can match Obama's rhetoric and style, while appealing to the public's overwhelming feelings of economic uncertainty. If we match him up with an even more conservative VP candidate they could very possibly be our best chance at winning in 2012.
Romney/Palin!!!???
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"But should the economy continue to slump, Romney would be uniquely suited to challenge Obama. After all, prior to becoming Massachusetts governor, Mitt Romney ran Bane Capital -- a firm specializing in turning around failing companies."
Me- Maybe we should ask the employees of AmPad about his skills at turning companies around.
You remember AmPad, it was a company that Bain Acquired. They closed two plants- One in Indiana, the other in New York, laying off hundreds of people. The stock became worthless, while Bain paid itself millions in "adminstration fees". Eventually, the company went into Chapter 11 in the middle of a boom economy. That takes a SPECIAL level of ineptitude.
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Not another Romney Rising post...
Well, I guess it was inevitable. With Palin and Sanford imploding, what do they have left. Huckabee and the Android from Kolob...
And no McCain for sensible people to turn to. |
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OMG first your posts are that Palin is running away or not "sticking it out" and now you are back to promoting the prodical Liberal Mitt Romney. Next you will be telling us how he did a mindmeld to find out what Reagan would do as if doing the right things has to be channeled through the Gipper.
Why don't you cover Micheal Jackson I'm sure you could do alot better e-baying all your Jackson memorabilla this weekend and make a fortune Matt.
Between you and Hewitt we always can count on the wrong response.
He's a MORMON Matt!!! Is that what you wanted to hear AGAIN??? It has nothing to do with how he governed as a total L-I-B-E-R-A-L!!! Sure we know you think he's pretty and well spoken and I'm sure a very upstanding individual but he's a MORMON!!! Sorry I got caught up in my attempt at appeasment. He's a LIBERAL, LIBERAL, LIBERAL!!! |
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If not it would be rino SUICIDE to put him on the Presidential Ticket as President or VP nominee.
But heck don't listen to me, rinos, go ahead and make the dems da WINNERS again in 2012. Y don't U rinos nominate a Romney/BobbyJindal Ticket, yeah that'll WORK for da dems.
ROFLMAO! @ da STUPID rinos!
"bo is a Citizen and a Family Man." juan mccain @ 2008 rino rally in Minnesota. |
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Jindal's debut hurt him; he's young. Better to wait. Same with some younguns like Ryan.
Huck, w/o money or national support, had to run as the Christian candidate; that will probably make him unelectable in a general. Newt's brilliant but will be seen a fat old white guy.
AS Mat said: It all depends on the economy. Right now the economy is paralyzed due to the FDR-style policies of BHO. Nobody dares invest, expand or hire.
There aren't many sure bets these days, but one of them is that this economy will do just like it did during the Great Depression: wallow in the basement as long as the progressives are in power.
That does leave the door open for Romney as the competitent grown up with a resume of successful turn-arounds.
He's a smart, good guy who has America's best interest at heart.
One thing for sure: The Pubs need to pick their best hope and rally around them like there is no tomorrow. If that's Romney, get behind him, sing his strengths to the high heavens and quit the silly nit picking.
Pick nits are your peril, fools. Pick nits and there will be no tomorrow.
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Will he run as a conservative, moderate, or liberal? He seems to change positions as often as the wind blows. No thanks. It's Huckabee all the way for me!! |
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Not a Chance !We need real conservative leadership not more of the same and thats all romney will be more mcain more dole more bush . |
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his money for Political Propaganda! |
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Romney was CEO of Bain Capital, spelled "BAIN". |
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of de rinos but he might want 2 axe mccain what dat gonna get 'im? |
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Switch it around, and I like it! |
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Romney better GET on Barry O, then. This nicey-nice stuff isn't cutting it when our country is being destroyed by lefties.
I bet Palin will be in Barry's face. Mitt better step it up, as well. |
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By the way, where is Hugh? He used to post blog entries here. Did he get tired of the comments? |
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will Townhall please stop being the press secretaries for fraud Romney?
all the money in the world won't help this stiff.
HUCK/PENCE 2012!!!!!!!!!! |
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