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Monday, December 25, 2006
Trevino: War in the Horn
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at 3:56 PM

Guest post from Josh Trevino:

Hugh rightly notes two things about the Ethiopian airstrikes in Somalia of the past day: that they represent a meaningful escalation in the fighting there, and that they are a big deal. (A good map of the attendant ground combat is here.) But they do not, pace the referenced AP piece, represent the beginning of the latest Somali-Ethiopian war. Ethiopian Prime Minister Meles Zenawi avers that his nation has been "forced to enter a war," and though this is true to some extent -- the mere existence of a neighboring Islamist state is casus bellum in a sane world, and the Somali Islamists declared jihad months ago -- it is not, as he wishes to convey, a recent development. I wrote six months ago about the initial Ethiopian invasion of Somalia: when the Islamic Courts Union threatened to consolidate its control of the entirety of Somalia outside the breakaway regions of Somaliland and Puntland, Ethiopian forces rushed to occupy Baidoa on ostensible behalf of the UN-recognized Somali transitional government. Forgive me if I repeat myself in explaining exactly why the Ethiopians care enough to do so:

Ethiopia has reason to fear the ascent of the [Islamic Courts Union, the Taliban-style movement taking over Somalia proper]. In addition to the ordinary concerns that a neighboring Islamist state might bring, Ethiopia itself has a significant Somali population within its borders. The proportion of Somalis in Ethiopia is not especially large -- about 6% -- but they inhabit and dominate the strategically important Ogaden region. [Control of the Ogaden is a historic objective of Somali nationalists, and has led to ruinous war in recent memory.] Furthermore, despite its historic Christian identity, modern Ethiopia actually has a Muslim plurality of nearly half. The combination of Somali nationalism plus Islamization is one that the Ethiopian state can hardly afford. Were an ICU-style movement to gain traction within Ethiopia, a Muslim Ethiopia reflecting demography — and demographic trends — is more than conceivable. Add to this the (probably spurious) Ethiopian conviction that the ICU is aided by longtime enemy Eritrea, and the case for intervention becomes overwhelming.

So much for the Ethiopian rationale for war, which has only been strengthened since by the ICU's expressed interest in the creation of a "Greater Somalia." The veneer of legality is provided by the defense of the transitional government, but it is only that. That this government -- which governs nearly nothing -- is seated in Baidoa, exactly halfway down the highway from the Ethiopian border to Mogadishu, is no accident.

The American rationale for this war is remarkably similar to the Ethiopian: we have a compelling interest in the eradication of an Islamist state of any type, anywhere in the world. That the Somali ICU has requested and received foreign jihadi assistance only bolsters the case for its eradication: we should know better by now than to permit an unmolested mixing of Islamists from around the world. The rise of the Somali Islamists also illustrates rather well the intersection of Muslim states' complicity in the expansion of jihadism around the world: according to the CSM, "a UN Monitoring Group report has charged that Eritrea, Egypt, Djibouti, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Libya, and Sudan have all contributed funds, arms, and technical support to help Somalia's Islamists take control." This is a combination that neither Ethiopia nor America can ignore.

The Ethiopian Army in happier days, when it only fought AIDS.
Absent the ability to take meaningful action in the Horn of Africa ourselves -- and even if the political will was present, the American soldiers are not -- the choices of proxies are small. We do have a small Marine presence in Djibouti, and we are doing our best to import Ugandans (and one assumes others, under the guise of a just-approved UN "peacekeeping" force) into the theater; but Ethiopia is the only meaningfully large ally in the region. It is reasonable to believe that we are supporting their war effort. (Concurrent to our own "war on terror," and cognizant of Ethiopia's role as a mostly-Christian power in a Muslim region, we have had an active relationship with their military in the past decade; as part of that, I visited an Ethiopian Army hospital in fall 2003.) The Western media refers to this a "tacit" complicity, but the reality is probably more active. The Ethiopian war machine is certainly battle-tested, but a strategic air campaign of the sort we've seen in the past 48 hours is not its forte. One might well ask where its targeting data is coming from; and one might note that it has no neighbors able, and far less willing, to provide it. One might also note that American forces are positioned astride Ethiopia's only remaining outlet to the sea, in Djibouti, now that its traditional port of Asmara, the Eritrean capitol, has been in hostile hands for over a decade.

The mention of Eritrea brings us to the problematic aspects of supporting Ethiopia, and in particular the government of Meles Zenawi, in this war -- and not just because Ethiopian paranoia over putative Eritrean designs in Somalia is a partial motivation for this war. In attacking the ICU, Ethiopia is doing the right thing, and Ethiopia is a natural ally of the United States in the Horn of Africa; but for all this, we cannot forget that the present Ethiopian regime is a thoroughly bad one on several fronts. Zenawi is a good ruler of Ethiopia only when set against his predecessor Haile Mengistu Mariam, the former Communist despot there who was recently convicted of genocide. (Mariam presently languishes in Zimbabwe, under the protection of another genocidal tyrant.) Meles Zenawi's government is, however, not above a small-scale genocide of its own -- in this case, against the Anuak people of the western hinterlands -- and executing anti-government protestors. Add in its propensity for belligerence that can only be described as stupid -- its horrifyingly bloody 1998-2000 war with Eritrea was fought over a near-worthless strip of disputed border -- and we must be aware that the Zenawi regime is an imperfect ally at best. Indeed, given the probability that he will, Putin-like, use the present war to cement his grip over his nation, an ideal American policy ought to support the Ethiopian war and the Ethiopian people who deserve far better than their succession of bloody-minded autocrats.

But that is ideal American policy. Even if it strengthens the cruel grip of the likes of Meles Zenawi, the Ethiopian invasion of Somalia deserves our support. The expressed fear now is that it will lead to a broader regional war: the worst-case scenario has Kenya joining Ethiopia against Somalia, as Eritrea and the Sudan intervene on the side of the Islamists, with Djibouti suffering from a severe case of divided loyalties, and various expeditionary forces from within and outside of Africa entering the fray. (On the latter count, in addition to the aforementioned foreign jihadists, Yemen has a historic interest in the the military balance in the Horn.) But from the American perspective, even this putative worst-case scenario is preferable to the actual worst-case scenario: an Islamist state, beyond the realm of law and justice, secure on the east African coast. We know what happens when those polities arise and endure: it has not been so very long since the fruits of the last one slaughtered thousands in our own streets.


View in ascending order View in descending order
Babuish writes: Thursday, December, 28, 2006 10:07 AM
writes
Well as we see the ICU are not what the media wanted us to believe they are. They have resigned. Now lets see what the intention of Ethiopia and the puppet TGF with the help of the US will do. I hope the same mistake done in Iraq will not be repeated. Putting a govenment that is not respected by the people will not solve problems but exasperate the situation.
The Somalis will not accept a proxy government led by Meles and if the UN and the West cannot see throught this then yes Somalia will be another Iraq. I hope this time around we have learnt from past mistakes and take the demand of the people into account and not do the same mistake done in Iraq and Afganistan.

(SomaliNet) The top leaders of Islamic Courts Union in the capital have announced on Wednesday that they resigned and are ready to hand over the administration to the people in Mogadishu to avoid destruction and bloodshed in the city.

After having crucial and urgent meeting tonight in the capital, the leaders of executive and Shura councils of Islamic Courts Union and deputy leader of executive council of ICU, Sheik Hassan Dahir Aweys, Sheik Sharif Sheik Ahmed and Sheik Abdirahman Janaqow resigned and issued a joint press statement over the current situation in Somalia particular in Mogadishu.

Sheik Janaqow read out the statement through the local media saying:

“Since the Islamic Courts Union came to the power in Somalia, it did a lot of significant acts to the people, particular in terms of security, justice, country’s development, improving the inner and outside politics, reopening the air and sea ports and so on,” said in the statement.

The ICU said also in the press release that foreign powers have invaded the country therefore to avoid devastation and fighting inside the capital, the Islamic Courts Union now agreed on the following decisions:

1. It is national duty to protect the sovereignty and the integrity of Somalia and its people.

2. The ICU allows that Somalis should have the option to determine their future and would be ready for taking over the responsibility.

3. The Islamic Courts Union agreed not to allow anyone to create violence in Mogadishu and anybody that is found guilty would be brought before the law and would be taken for the suitable punishment according to the Islamic Sharia.

4. The ICU fighters are responsible for establishing the security and stability in the Somalia capital Mogadishu.

5. Lastly, the ICU is calling on all the Islamic fighters in whereever they are in Somalia to secure the stability and get ready in the police stations and other security stations.

The Islamic officials in the capital stressed that it is shame and misfortune that Somalia will again loss their security and peace in which they were brought from starting village, town, city and to country

Frey writes: Thursday, December, 28, 2006 1:02 AM
wil
While I'm no expert, I do know that Eritrea has sent fighters in support of the Islamic Courts Union. They've been enemies of Ethiopia since their independence. Djbouti (sp?) is apparently straddling the fence, which is a little wierd, since they would be absorbed into a "Greater Somalia", but maybe they consider the Ethiopians an equal threat.
al lindro writes: Wednesday, December, 27, 2006 7:48 PM
About the rag tag army...
You make a good point re: Kenya and Dijbouti, Babuish. That needs to be understood --- why are they apparently so much less concerned?

But, with respect to the so-called rag tag army, have we not seen that it takes only such an army to fight the way terrorists fight --- not to get "control" of anything, just to scare everyone (non military especially) to the point of bringing about some kind of psychic victory and winning concessions?

Not speaking specifically about Somalia or Ethiopia per se, but speaking generally about governments that sponsor or support, or even fail to take rigorous action against, terrorists --- they should be fair game, no matter what. IF Somalia fits that description under the UIC, that's just about all I need to know. Their removal in the most effective and least harmful (to their citizens) way is justified. All of them. As soon as possible.
Babuish writes: Wednesday, December, 27, 2006 10:32 AM
Yes to could be sorted out
If we are interested in the truth as to what is going on... Melese Zenawi has never been interested in a stabel Somalia and has been financing one Warlord against the other over the last fifteen years. Why? because he always need a boggie man in that area to run to the US with the idea that terrorist exist, I need money...

As stated the ICU was no danger to Ethiopia, Kenya or any of its neighbours. As is well documented so far it is Meles Zenawi that sent 8000 troops supposedly to train a 6000 troop of the TGF. I never realized that you had to have more trainers, To me this sounds more of an invasion. So the ICU declared jihad and stated the only way it would talk with the TGF was if the Ethiopian forces left Somalia. If Meles was real interested in PEACE in the area he would have pulled back, but he is the instigator. The rhetoric of Greater Somalia has existed since the early 60's when Somalia got its independents it was not able to achieve it when it was a country,united with a govenment and an army.
Meles really wants us to beleive it would acheiev it now with a ragg tagg militia this is a joke. The whole sherade is for Melese to play as if he is the defender of the free world. He has fought and destroyed the terrorist.Hipp Hipp
hurray! He however can terrorize the Ethiopian people who have rejected him and his government and we hear nothing.
Why has the threat been for Ethiopia only why has not Kenya or Dijbouti found this to be a threat???

No one cares for exterimest of any kind yes the ICU may have a few of them but the none extremist could have been negotiated with to creat peace in the area. But Melese never wanted that he wanted war and declared war to his parlimant any parlimantarian who questioned his reasoning has been critizied and ostracized on his media, the young are being rounded and are being sent to trianing camps because he anticipates this war to continue not only in Somalia but with Eritera. So we will see a long protracted war in the region that could have been stopped but was not! and once again it is the people who will suffer while despots like Meles and Issaias will bully each other and I am sorry to say the US will cheer under the guise of terrorism and extremists.
al lindro writes: Wednesday, December, 27, 2006 1:34 AM
Can we sort this out a bit?
I'm impressed with the concise overview provided here by Josh Trevino (thank you, sir). Nazer, for his part, takes issue when he says: "... the Union of Islamic Court is no danger to Ethiopian people as they are busy with solving their problems at home." Josh, for his part, dismisses this along with Nazer's contention that Zenawi is implicated in the ineffectiveness of governance in Somalia.

I am without my Ethopian friend, who died a couple of years ago and upon whom I could count for some enlightenment (though not necessarily balanced!) about what was happening on the ground. So I turn to you, dear readers.... with a couple of questions:

(1) How can we square Nazer's statement about "busy with solving their problems at home" with the public pronouncement of a UIC goal to unite Somalians living outside the border in Ethiopia? And jihad, if that's what's been pronounced. In my view, a government preoccupied with finding internal solutions says something like, "someday when it can be negotiated between mature and stable neighbors, we intend to revisit issues of borders and the welfare of Somalian expatriots; they are in our minds and hearts. But for now our goal is to ensure ever better conditions for those living inside our borders and to protect them from anyone seeking to do them harm." In other words, why pour fuel on a smoldering situation if you don't want it to ignite?

(2) What ABOUT Nazer's contention that the Ethiopian leader(s) is/are actively (even if indirectly) supporting disruptive and malicious interests inside Somolia to subvert the UIC? Would this be consistent with their modus operandi, and if so what should be done about it --- if anything can be?



wil writes: Tuesday, December, 26, 2006 4:41 PM
Babuish...strategy changes
I don't know how accurate your assertions are, but I'll take your word for it for the moment. Until the early 90's we were involved in the Cold War, our main foreign policy was to isolate, contain, and eventually end the Soviet Union. In order to do this we often allied with tyrants or Islamic Fanatics, such as the Taliban in Afghanistan and even at one time Saddam. We also left Lebanon under Reagan in 83 after our Marines died rather than fight a war there that may have led to a confrontation with the Soviet satellite state in Syria. Many of these choices in retrospect were wrong if not immoral, yet how much different were these choices from our decision to fund and support Staling during WW2 to defeat Hitler? It is easy to make the case that Stalin was worse than Hitler, and killed more people than Hitler did, yet few would argue that Hitler had to be stopped and the cost was worth it. From the 40's through 91, we made decisions to support some pretty nasty people who have turned out to be enemies in order to win the Cold War. Its easy to make back seat retroactive policy critiques from the future, but not very productive. And choosing not to face evil now because we supported it in the past would be like giving in to Stalin because he was our ally against Hitler: Following one bad decision with another.
wil writes: Tuesday, December, 26, 2006 4:28 PM
Just curious...
I would like to see an expert, someone familiar with the region like this author, summarize for us where the rest of East Africa stands, for example Djbouti is an Islamic state, yet does not seem to be at all belligerent, Eritrea since it broke off of Ethiopia has been quiet, what are they doing or saying, what about Uganda (where my church has missionaries) or Kenya, in other words, we keep hearing that events in Somalia and war between Somalia and Ethiopia may erupt into a war engulfing a third of Africa, I am just curious if such a thing occurs, who will be on what side and why?
jstrevino writes: Tuesday, December, 26, 2006 12:21 PM
IVES
Your dispute is with me, not Hugh Hewitt. Hugh has graciously allowed me to guest-post here, but that does not mean he should be burdened with moral responsibility for my writing!

Yes, I've been to Ethiopia too, and had a lovely time there.
Babuish writes: Tuesday, December, 26, 2006 11:39 AM
Ethiopia

It is amazing how so called experts change with the time and the weather. There was no problem with Somalia invading Ethiopia in the mid 1970's with the help of the US it was under the same guise greater Somalia. Now the fear that Somalia would invade Ethiopia Kenya etc. is a joke. If the idea is possible then why has not Kenya raised the bar and declared war as Ethiopia. Because the Kenyan Government realizes
that a nation that has not existed for 15 years cannot be a threat in any shape and form.

However, to Meles Zenawi anything is a diversion from the disastrous situation he finds himself in a country where he can longer rule unless through the barrel of a gun. Yes Ethiopia is a Christian Nation living in peace with its Islamic population which is large - infact in certain areas one can find both religion in one family were one brother is a chisitan and the other a muslim Eriteria is not different since it was a part of Ethiopia it also has both population of both religious groups who have lived together. In both countries it is religion that is the problem it is despots who refuse to respect the will of the people;bth Meles and Issaias are made of the same fabric and all they care about is that they are in power, and this war in somalia is an extension of that.
Yes America wants to beat the drum of Islam as the problem. That is far from the truth. Infact to Ethiopians today the big joke is that Meles Zenawi is made to be the protector of Christianity. This is a guy who has welcomed "Wahabism" into Ethiopia allowing the opening of medrases trying to radicalize Ethiopian islam. Meles would do anything for a buck and he welcomed Iran and Saudi to come in and open medrases and radicaliz islam in Ethiopia
just in case his ethnic card fails in dividing Ethiopians so he could maintian his rule the alternative would be to creat chaos through religion.

Meles has never been seen near a door of a church let alone a protector of Christianity.
The war in Somalia is among brothers, and instead of adding wood to the fire Meles should have helped in making peace, but that is an alien word to Meles who get sick when he hears PEACE.
IVES writes: Tuesday, December, 26, 2006 8:40 AM
Ethiopia - Outsider Overview

I would like to moderate some of Hugh Hewitts negative comments about Ethiopia. Yes there has been government sponsored bloody political suppression, most recent following the last elections in mid 2006, and the elected government may not fully represent all tribes, classes etc. to the satisfaction of these entities, but the government is trying, and the government does talk to opponents, they just don’t always say what their opponents want to hear, (never happen in a democracy hmm!!!).

Remember the Ethiopian nation has 83 languages or dialects, an indicator of the level of possible tribal / sect divisions. I have recently traveled in Ethiopia and find it peaceful except for bandits who will steal your money at night in some areas, (sounds like NY in the 80’s huh)! Oh and further I elected to stay out of the Eritrea and Somalia war zones.

Look at a map of the ARAB NATIONS, and Ethiopia stands out as an aberration, isolated from the sea by Eritrea, Djibouti, and Somalia, it is the only non Islamic nation in North and North East Africa from Mauritania to Somalia. Considering Ethiopia gave Mohammed sanctuary when he was driven from Arabia 1450 Hijra years ago, this is remarkable. Ethiopia will not become an “Islamic Nation” but they are slowly being isolated and suppressed by the Arabs. Arab dominated Islamic nations isolate Ethiopian access to seaports, they are at war with Eritrea and Somalia so all imports have to come through the Djibouti port. How does this affect the economy? Today the cost of heavy fuel oil in Ethiopia is ten times higher than the hfo price in Saudi Arabia. The overriding Arab mentality to control trade reinforces their desire to isolate Ethiopia! This same mentality is the driving force behind the fact there has been no government in Somalia for 15 years. Expatriate Somalians confirm this and wealthy traders support Islamists so as to maintain this environment.

Ethiopia includes the headwaters of the Nile in the mountains surrounding Addis Ababa and the Ethiopian government is, with help from the Chinese, building hydrogenation and negotiating with Djibouti to build a power grid to supply energy poor Djibouti with cheap environmentally friendly hydro electricity, so the Ethiopian approach to overcoming their isolation disadvantages is not solely focused on military solutions.

Please remember seventy years ago Eritrea, Djibouti, Somalia were all part of the greater Abyssinian empire, but today Ethiopia is surrounded on the Red Sea and Arabian Sea coast by Arab supported Islamic nations.

Please welcome Ethiopia as an unnamed coalition force in the War Against Radical Islam.


AustriaHungary writes: Tuesday, December, 26, 2006 7:27 AM
15th Anniversary of the end of WWIII
Dec 26, 1991-
The Soviet Union officially dissolves.
World War III ends.

The Clash of Civilizations resumes immediately, but let us remember the joy of seeing the hammer and sickle lowered, never to rise again!

And, for all the sins of Zenawi, he's not promising heaven on earth to his people while herding millions to their deaths - he's trying to keep all the Ethiopians, even the ethnic Somalis and religious Muslims, free from Islamofascism.

Ooh, as I write this, there's an earthquake. Yuanlin, Taiwan. Biggun!
PokerGuy writes: Tuesday, December, 26, 2006 6:22 AM
Excellent Article
Thank you. Another example, as if we needed one, of the consequences of Islamic expansionist doctrine. I wonder when it's going to sink in: the only acceptable world to an Islamic fundamentalist is one wholly under sharia. One either accepts that world view or is put to the sword, or some modern-day equivalent.
winging texan writes: Tuesday, December, 26, 2006 5:40 AM
islam stuff
How long is it going to take the world to see that this islam stuff is causing the problems. And, that the UN does nothing but talk. They are just like the Dems, all talk, nothing changes. No one likes to hear of wars or have wars and war will not stop islam, wo a strong military force and vigelance of who is in the government of your nation is very important. Yes, call it discrimination, or take your chance with some people more dedicated to world domination than living in peace.
one hot minute writes: Tuesday, December, 26, 2006 2:30 AM
thank you for the clarity, Josh Trevino.

Josh Trevino,

Hugh has a keen eye for talent, and I'm excited to see he has added you to the bill.

Thank you, Mr. Trevino, for providing historical accuracy and moral clarity to yet another terrifying development emanating from the files of the, uh, "religion of peace."

When the ICU states its intention of annexing parts of Ethiopia, Kenya, and Djibouti into a new "Greater Somalia," the writing is on the wall that they intend to do so by force.
After all, has there been any other way during the past 1300 years ?

In classic Marxist form, the contrarian howling lefties will naturally preoccupy themselves with the sins of our Ethiopian ally, rather than the sins of the Islamo-fascist opposition.

This is an opportunity for the United Nations to prove its usefullness in solving an international crisis, as all of its cheerleaders purport it is capable of doing.
However, I'm confident this situation will reinforce the belief that the U.N. is a great force for orators and theorists, rather than a great force for humanity and morality.

Yet, no doubt, this conflict will elicit another U.N. resolution condemning Israel.
jstrevino writes: Monday, December, 25, 2006 9:45 PM
Somali responsibility.
Somalis, of course, bear primary responsibility for the regrettable state of their country. Outside nations may aggravate conditions, but they cannot by themselves destroy a nation.

As for the relative threat posed by the ICU to Ethiopia, suffice it to say that only a fool would bet on the long-term peaceable nature and intentions of an avowedly Islamist movement -- especially one claiming your territory as part of a "greater Somalia."
Nazer writes: Monday, December, 25, 2006 9:15 PM
War in the horn

The Televised speech of this demon looking thug called Zenawi trying to convince the Ethiopian people how this war with ICU in Somalia is legit and a must, I realized how liar he is. I will tell you why: the Union of Islamic court is no danger to Ethiopian people as they are busy with solving their problems at home. They are re-building their country. As a matter of fact Zenawi is the only problem in the Horn and to the Ethiopian people. For 16 years of anarchy, frustration and chaos in Somalia, he was the responsible one.. Zenawi had almost 15 warlords who were his friends in Mogadishu alone and surprisingly none of them were friends to each-other in Mogadishu .They divided the city into small fiefdoms. They killed, raped and tortured their fellow Somalis. They fought each-others and every time they needed weapons guess where they used to get them from?- Addis Ababa.. Now if this thug is honest about Somalia and Somali people he could have done something way back. The truth is and has been that Zenawi doesn't want a unified Somali. He wants Somalia being weak and broken into small lands, like Punt land, Somaliland, blabla land and so forth. The chance he has now is that the Islamic courts has got their name the word *Islam* which he being a thug knows the west has a phobia. Take my word, this is going to be a long and pain war to the Ethiopian people as well as the Somali people and the Horn. But the good thing about this war is that it will bring an end to this Zenawi regime. Only time will tell.
jstrevino writes: Monday, December, 25, 2006 8:58 PM
With all respect....
....I don't think it was a wise use of Ethiopian blood or treasure.

I don't want to quibble over that, though, lest it obscure the main point here: that Ethiopia deserves American support in _this_ war.
teka writes: Monday, December, 25, 2006 8:07 PM
Your Analysis on Ethiopia's Vs UIC
I must agree with most of your anlysis.More or less accurate.

I kind of found it a little bit unfair, though, when you called Zenawi's decision to go to war against Eritrea stupid. I qoute "..in its propensity for belligerence that can only be described as stupid -- its horrifyingly bloody 1998-2000 war with Eritrea was fought over a near-worthless strip of disputed border -- ". Sir, we all know that there are some places that Mexico still claims to belong to it.Based on this, imagine if Mexico decides to "re-take" a very small and almost useless part of California by force and sends its troops to milterily occupy it. Imagine that the USA opted to solve this problem peacfully and asks Mexico to leave and later to start talks, and even asks its friends to mediate. Imagine even the UN tells Mexico to go back to where it was and if it has any legitimate "claim" it can be solved through international mediations or negotiations. However, Mexico sticks to its stand and leaves its military forces in the legaly american soil. Imagine that after so much negotiations Mexico shows anything but cooperation. And then the USA government runs out of patience and decides to re-take that very small "near-worthless strip of disputed border", but legitimately its, by force and of course some lives are lost. Would you, Mr Trevino, call this stupid? Because , this is what exactely (anlogicaly) happened in regards to Ethio-Eritrea conflict. I would like to know what would your reaction be if that happened, as I tried to explain hypotheticaly, to the USA?

Thanks.
jstrevino writes: Monday, December, 25, 2006 5:22 PM
Ethiopian religious breakdown.
The 2006 CIA World Factbook lists the religious breakdown of Ethiopia as follows:

Muslim 45%-50%
Ethiopian Orthodox 35%-40%
Animist 12%
Other 3%-8%

That's where I got my figures from. I'd love for you to be right, and me wrong, on this one -- but I'm in no position to gainsay these figures. I'm afraid I don't have too much confidence in the official figures of either the Mengistu or Zenawi governments.

All that said, thanks for the kind words. This war is an important one, as you well know.
OneEthiopia writes: Monday, December, 25, 2006 5:10 PM
Ethiopia A Moslim Plurality--Not
I cannot disagree with the logic of your agreement even when I don't like some of the regretable implications you yourself draw. Yes, Ethiopia is America's best ally in the region right now. However, America has a lot more clout and leverege it can use to make Meles behave better at home even as it supports Ethiopia's effort in Somalia.

One mistake nearly everyone including you keep on making and one that irks me so is the notion that today Ethiopia is either majority moslim or a plurality of moslims. Two back to back census (1984 under Mengistu and 1994 under Meles) concluded that moslim Ethiopians make up just a shade above 30% with Orthodox christians alone representing an absolute majority and Christians of all sects constituting 62% of the population.

The suggestion that Ethiopia has gotten to be a Moslim majority state in a short 12 years is nothing more than Islamic fantasy.

Thanks for keeping this case in the head lines.
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 Re: This Christmas, 78% of Americans Identify as Christian
  By Careful with that axe, Eugene
Mikey
 Re: This Christmas, 78% of Americans Identify as Christian
  By Careful with that axe, Eugene
NeoTool....
 Re: Authorities Say Terrorism To Blame For Christmas Plane Bombing In Detroit
  By Careful with that axe, Eugene
MikeTard
 Re: Authorities Say Terrorism To Blame For Christmas Plane Bombing In Detroit
  By Careful with that axe, Eugene
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 Re: This Christmas, 78% of Americans Identify as Christian
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BK
 Re: You Will Subsidize Abortion
  By Careful with that axe, Eugene
Mike
 Re: This Christmas, 78% of Americans Identify as Christian
  By Careful with that axe, Eugene
Crazy Ronna Pt. 2
 Re: This Christmas, 78% of Americans Identify as Christian
  By Careful with that axe, Eugene
Craaaaaaaazzzzy Ronna
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  By Careful with that axe, Eugene
Axe
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careless and Muncky
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Axe
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Say Whaaaaaat?
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Axie-AJ-Scurvacious-Gesturing-RecippySal
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BK
 Re: You Will Subsidize Abortion
  By Careful with that axe, Eugene

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