We eat trolls for breakfast on most of these sites.
As Dennis Miller once said, he's gotten hate mail from both sides and at least the stuff from the right was spelled correctly.
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..."facts-be-damned, multimedia takedown they employed over eight long years to destroy the presidency - and the humanity - of George W. Bush?"
Well if Bush 43 had been half the POTUS Bush 41 was then he wouldn't have been "taken down and had his humanity" destroyed.
Ye Gods. |
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most of the left wingers here supporting BO, English is a foreign language and Judeo-Christian Culture is a mystery to them. |
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This is well known.
One wonders, though, what the compulsive, obsessive, multiple landslides of comment droppings by the likes of the Sad Vlad, White Sally Girl, Her Alter-Ego Christian, Kimber Ralaei...It's just a sea of blathering static/white noise, but what's their point..?
Oh. I almost forgot. Attention. Appetite. Black Holes of Emotional Need. |
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internet "army". You know, did it ever occur to you wingnuts that we liberals actually enjoy what we're doing? This country is in the sorry state it's in largely due to right wing buffoons dominating the conversation. Actually, Obama can take care of himself. What needs to happen is that conservatives need a good smack in the head to remind them that political intimidation they have engaged in will no longer go unanswered. |
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Which national politician gave out money to conservatives for posting his message on internat chat boards? |
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Sure, they'd like to make certain Obama isn't subjected to any scrutiny, but since Townhall is owned and run by Conservatives, they can't stop it on Conservative sites. They can only hope to delete such commentary from HuffPo or the Daily Kos.
I think Hugh shutting down his commentary section is a mistaken, and saying that Conservatives are "losing" are both grossly inaccurate.
Trolls will do what they do best. They'll notice Obama screwed up our relationship with Poland and the Czech Republic by offering to sell them down river for Russian support on Iran. They will then find an ingenious way of blaming the Bush administration (after all, had Bush not offered them missile defense installations in the first place, we never could have sold them down river!). Thanks to their efforts, I've now learned that Bush is responsible for:
- 9/11
- Katrina
- Georgia and Ossetia
- Iraq circa 2005-2006, not 2007-2008
- The Economy, circa 2001-2002 and 2008-2009, but not 2003-2007
- Rape
- Incest
- The Crusades
- Malaria
- Kidney stones
Sad thing is, the one they'd be most likely to defend are those kidney stones. It's all due to our carbon footprint and global warming! Curse you, Bush administration, and your Bambi-destroying policies! |
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of opposition. That's what you righties don't like. |
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They just prove to conservatives just how stupid they really are, and selfish. I rarely get into
'discussions' with trolls, that way they don't earn any money.
I doubt they demoralize the people I read on T H
they are shark bait to the ones that do take them on. I stand in awe of expertise of the
resident troll catchers..the funny thing is
trolls keep coming back for more punishment..how stupid is that.
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Sure, they'd like to make certain Obama isn't subjected to any scrutiny, but since Townhall is owned and run by Conservatives, they can't stop it on Conservative sites. They can only hope to delete such commentary from HuffPo or the Daily Kos.
I think Hugh shutting down his commentary section is a mistaken, and saying that Conservatives are "losing" are both grossly inaccurate.
Trolls will do what they do best. They'll notice Obama screwed up our relationship with Poland and the Czech Republic by offering to sell them down river for Russian support on Iran. They will then find an ingenious way of blaming the Bush administration (after all, had Bush not offered them missile defense installations in the first place, we never could have sold them down river!). Thanks to their efforts, I've now learned that Bush is responsible for:
- 9/11
- Katrina
- Georgia and Ossetia
- Iraq circa 2005-2006, not 2007-2008
- The Economy, circa 2001-2002 and 2008-2009, but not 2003-2007
- Rape
- Incest
- The Crusades
- Malaria
- Kidney stones
Sad thing is, the one they'd be most likely to defend are those kidney stones. It's all due to our carbon footprint and global warming! Curse you, Bush administration, and your Bambi-destroying policies! |
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You're the fifth guy to get a question today and NOT answer it.
Ready? Here goes:
How specifically will any of Obama's policies (YOUR pick, take your favorite) make the economy better?
Do liberals enjoy looking stupid? 'Cause if you can't provide an answer, that's all you're doing here. |
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This sight does not delete comments from you lefturds, but if a conservative leaves a post on Kos or Huffpo, it's gone within seconds...
Now, which side did you say was afraid of opposition again....? |
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yapping like a mutt at something much larger than you. If you think Conservatives have cornered the market on polital intimidation, you need look no further than your Chicago thug for a President and his cronies like Raum "kickem in the teeth" Emanuel.
Your a troll... But you and the rest of the lefty phsycopathic losers make a great punching bag. Keep up the great work. |
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Raelei gets a shoutout in the Washington Times - must make her(?) day. But I don't think Mr. Breitbart is correct.
Those who rant only diminish themselves. There are conservatives on this site who give partisan rants as well - they are more dangerous in my opinion. The liberals who rant make themselves look like loons, the conservatives who rant make us look like loons.
Does anyone think that an anonymous blog post on Townhall is going to 'thwart dissent'? For the 2-3 people who give generic rants having nothing to do with the blog topic, there is good reason to purge - but most people to stay on topic. Dissent isn't dangerous.
If it weren't for the dissenters on Townhall, I wouldn't have as much fun on the site. |
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"I rarely get into 'discussions' with trolls, that way they don't earn any money."
What is your definition of a "troll"?
Who is paying these trolls? Can you document that?
Did you go around to liberal sites when a prominent Republican was paying people to post things on the internet? If you had, would have consider yourself a "troll"? |
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What? who's training you, let me guess raelei/christain |
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So what is wrong with a rant? Is that some sort of restricted speech? |
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"...a healthy dose of intellectual honesty..."
So, do John Hawkins' columns bring a healthy dose of intellectual honesty? You know, the ones titled "5 Reasons Why Liberals Hate America, Eat Their Young, and Are Gay."
If you're going to vomit in someone's face, don't be surprised if they vomit right back at you. |
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There are an over abundance of dunce on townhall, but I fought for their right to debate in a public sector. I wish the Democrats in congress felt the same way to their "esteemed colleagues" on the other side of the aisle. It would be as wrong to squelch their pap as anything Obama is doing, just a whole lot less expensive. I have asked for a little substance and have been met with insults saying their offerings are as valid as any. Yet I look and I see speculation and disinformation on an epic scale. As far as I am cocerned it binds the conservatives and makes it easier for us to get off the couch on tea party days and do something. And we must do much more than them as the media refuses to cover them. We must scream louder and longer. I have suggested we use the upcoming increase in the cost of first class postage to 44 cents as " The Stamp Act of 2009". It may be too soon coming for a national rally, but one as such is needed. Maybe the unions will loan us some buses? |
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Go back to the media reporting/coverage of Bush administration. Then reconsider your statement 'right wing dominance won't go unanswered'. All the media did was tell americans that Bush is wrong on ALL issues. Now, all the media does is tell americans Barak is right on ALL issues (never mind the evidence).
The liberal ideas have failed in europe, and they will fail at a deeper level in the USA. The irony is that middle class americans like yourself (I know your net worth can't exceed 250K) can't afford Obama and you are too ignorant to know it. We can survive Obama and you can't. In 8 years, you too will get it.
And conservative ideas have been challenged consistently in schools, colleges and media where the left leaning americans have targeted their PR war.
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...little weenies.
Pin the tail on the troll....
Can we think of anyone on this thread who has nothing to say, takes 10,000 words to say it and it's usually about "me?"
Hmmmmm |
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"How specifically will any of Obama's policies ... make the economy better?"
Obama's plan to increase the energy efficiency of millions of homes by adding insulation, making them more air-tight, etc. will both create a huge number of new jobs in the distressed housing construction area AND reduce our energy demands, saving money for the individual homeowner and keeping the price of oil and electricity low. |
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"They just prove to conservatives just how stupid they really are, and selfish."
It's a matter of continual amazement to me that conservatives don't already know how stupid and selfish they are.
"I rarely get into 'discussions' with trolls"
I've ready your comments, Tea Party. You wouldn't dare try. |
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"I have asked for a little substance and have been met with insults."
The conservative culture of victimization.
You've been handed plenty of facts, John, and you're the one who can only speak in whines and stereotypes. |
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"So now that the right is vanquished and thoroughly out of power, why doesn't it learn from its conquerors and employ similar tactics?
The answer is obvious. The right, for the most part, embraces basic Judeo-Christian ideals and would not promote nor defend the propaganda techniques that were perfected in godless communist and socialist regimes. "
Ha ha ha! That made me laugh so hard I had milk coming out my nose AND I fell of my chair.
You Christians are a funny lot. The vitriol levied on liberals here is toxic, caustic, hate filled spew without compare.
I'm guess that is what this fellow meant by embracing Judeo-Christian ideals, nasty narcissism.
This isn't a nice person on this site, columnist or poster.
Everyone here is out for blood.
And I'm the Vampire's Reflection.
Ahh, that felt good.
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Hey, White Sally- you're being paged. |
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Because that is what this sounds like. I saw Blartblart on Maher a few weeks ago and he struck me as a big overgrown baby - I guess this post pretty much reinforces that. And now Greg, who has only been posting for a short time suddenly can't 'take it'? He can surely dish it out - but he cannot. TAKE. It. Typical rightwinger who KNOWS he's on the wrong side of the facts and hates being reminded of it.
I'd like to remind you here at TH that even though you sound quite like the handwringing 'victimized' that Coulter likes to sneer about, there is just as much rightwing commentary filling the leftie blogs. Ah, but that's not the point in the world of the self-proclaimed victim, is it?
Greg and blartblart: grow a pair, will you? |
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It's gray matter fleeing for a new home where it will feel useful. |
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They are annoying, but no one is affected to change their opinion because of anything the trolls scribble.If anything they serve to increase our commitment. |
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For the umpteenth time I have said I do not belong to a party and I will defend any common sense opinion. Herin lies the problem. the lack of common sense and an irritating disability to look up simple truths even when told where to look. Yea we are terrified of you lonny. Your incredible lack of facts and the thought of your kind voting terrifies us. I could care less what people on the left "feel" about my statements, I just wish one of them would come back with a sensible debate point. "Us guys" out here salamander have admitted Bushes mistakes so many times you need a calculator to keep up, but it doesn't register in your between the ears void. Not one time have I heard a liberal admit their wrong, just like congress. This is why I believe a lot of the people this article addresses are Soros's minions. How many tentacles does Soros have? How many people has Soros bankrupted, taken their life savings invested in 401Ks and used the despicable act of selling short. For those not informed on stock trading selling short is manipulating a stock with huge amounts of purchases, driving up the price of the stock. All the brokers and retirement managers jump on the bandwagon and then Soros lowers the boom, sell all his stock making tens of millions in a week and the stock price plummets, leaving everyone else suckerpunched. ACORN has over a hundred sub-groups with different names, but all the money leads back to ACORN HQ. Conservatives don't go dumpster diving to find miniscule personal trivia that they can use their media rump swabs to expand and run with. We loose elections because we don't go as low. If we did the news people wouldn't be going out of business, so it's a wash. |
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Read the article. That last post by the scaly one was a picture perfect example....exactly the way Breitbart described it.
Off to the shooting range....longing for a troll to try to save a tree by blocking my target. |
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What if doors and windows need to be replaced for the weather stripping to work.
Will they also fill holes in the floors, roofs and walls of these houses.
And raise your hands if you want an Obamabot in your house.
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You're filling in for James, then.
Bob:"Obama's plan to increase the energy efficiency of millions of homes by adding insulation, making them more air-tight, etc. will both create a huge number of new jobs in the distressed housing construction area AND reduce our energy demands, saving money for the individual homeowner and keeping the price of oil and electricity low."
Better insulation for our homes will mean less energy used and it should reduce energy bills.
That WOULD be a good thing for homeowners and the environment.
Is this for new homes, existing homes, both?
I am assuming that the COST of this insulation is going to be paid by the homeowner, who will then apply for a rebate of some kind?
I also regret sounding jaded, but based on what's happening with fuel consumption around here, it seems like the LESS fuel people use, the more the price goes up because, well, tax revenues aren't being generated.
Are we going to pay for insulation and save energy only to wind up paying more for energy anyway?
How long does the Obama administration estimate that the "huge" number of jobs will be needed? |
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When the houses are caulked up tight as a drum, then the libbies will just start complaining about the formaldehyde fumes, backups of carbon monoxide from furnaces, and suchlike.
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If you dislike today's "religious cretins" you would not have been able to even stand being IN America a couple centuries ago.
Yet somehow people got along and crowds of all sorts of religious persuasions came to America's shores.
You're just spoiled.
-- A. Cretin |
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"SkyPixie"! That's it- I was saying "SkyFriend".
Believe me, most conservatives here know that the GOP has its wheels stuck deep in the mud and it was because they were trying to drive in the middle of the road when they should've been staying in the Right lane.
Will they get rescued by the conservatives is the question.
Hey, congrats on celebrity status! You made it on Brietbart! Don't be gettin all hoity-toity on us, wanting a big entourage. Unless Vlad, VR, Raelei and Frank are your entouage. |
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I've been handed nothing but facts and am whing, have I got that right Vlad? Every one of your facts I have shot down like pigs on the wing. This thread has actually begged for some substance from the left and we can all see what we have got here. Nice one Munck, where's the beef? Raelei chimes in with on of her pretyped scrolls for trolls and feeds it into the site. I have never seen a single offering from her. Dread I actually agreed with once yesterday and Soros probably fired him. I count eight different people asking for specific questions and real answers on Obama's policies. They stay away like the plague and go back to Bush bashing. Hillary is aplogising to Mexico for I guess keeping to many bullets that got somehow lodged in our chests. Bide praising Spain for their massive support of the NATO effort in Afghanistan. That holds up worse than Raelei's pap. We have a treasury secretary that can run two private, multi billion dollar corps into the ground, but Obama gives him the power to give thumbs up or thumbs down on private business. If you libs haven't read the fine print yet the Stimulis package gives him a gray area that he espoused on nationally, saying it should include all business reguardless if they took bailout money. Don't worry be happy. |
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Shaking in her(?) boots apparently. Is she(?) in the 5th grade? |
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Greg,
Good post. TH does have a problem, IMHO, with lefty hooligans. Perhaps TH could exclude the notorious Soros boiler room hacks that show up here all day, every day. We all know who they are and their various psuedonyms. Then again they do provide humorous insight into the feverish fetid minds of the leftwing cult that slavishly votes Democrat, worships CheBama and can't get a real job so they work for Soros, ACORN or Americorps. |
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So now that the right is vanquished and thoroughly out of power, why doesn't it learn from its conquerors and employ similar tactics?
The answer is obvious. The right, for the most part, embraces basic Judeo-Christian ideals and would not promote nor defend the propaganda techniques that were perfected in godless communist and socialist regimes. The current political and media environment crafted by supposedly idealistic Mr. Obama resembles Hugo Chavez's Venezuela more than John F. Kennedy's America.
The Huffington Post, Daily Kos and other left-leaning sites benefit from the right's belief that there are rules and decorum in political debate and civic engagement. Of course, every now and then, a curious right-winger will go in and engage in discussion at a left-wing site, but rarely under purely disingenuous and mass coordinated means.
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For those of you unfamiliar with this phenomenon:
"One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument." (urbandictionary.com)
In other words, their intent is to disrupt, rather than debate or discuss. |
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They're like the crazy extended family I never had. I have so much fun with them. In a way, it's like being in a foreign exchange-student program, where neither of us learns much about the others' culture (they KNOW I'm a wingnut and I KNOW they're unhinged Kool-Aid chuggers), but we have fun pinching the camel and getting spit on.
I say, let 'em stay.
(We're demoralizing them.) |
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Seriously? I'm guessing the 'threat' of Greg banishing liberal comments here is likened to some scary event in the wingnut mind. Nah - too easy to get back in to give a care, or move on - there's always a forum of wingnuts out there.
But here's the thing: Greg's 'threat' tells us that it is actually he - and TH - who are "shaking in their boots". Really, think about it. Why would Greg and TH care about the leftie comments UNLESS they are striking a certain chord that Greggie doesn't like. Whether it is just that Greg is so thin-skinned, like so many of the vitriolic rightwing who sling poo with impunity and then whine when it comes back to smack them in the face - or he is scared of the facts on the ground turning wingnuttia into a shrinking fantasyland. I'm betting a bit of both. |
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WS: Actually, the real problem is the GOP is trying to serve too many masters, with contradictory interests. If the GOP was the party that I joined, one of limited government, fiscal responsibility, and America first I'd have no problem with it. I'd be in the trenches with you and Paddy. Instead, it's become the tool of multi-national corporations, religious nutters who want to impose themselves on others.
DTOM: Well, maybe I'll just try hard to cut you some slack then. Start writing the public servants and tell em to stop spending our money on stupid crap!
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Have you read my musings on the 1994 republican revolution with Newt and the balanced budgets and the welfare acts being successfully cut back by a third. Even the black leaders were applauding the number of their minions getting out from under the thumb of the welfare state. What does the great Black hope do as his forst actions. He rpeals all of Clinton's and Bushes executive orders and repeals the voucher program that 80 percent of blacks wanted nationwide, and were a huge success in the D.C. and Milwaukee school systems. That revolution ended Vlad when the republicans looked across the aisle and saw what they could become. They threw Newt under the bus and became get re-elected for life graft sucking modocrats. That is the day I gave up on them and have had no one since. I talked to my book keeper the other day and he goes back to the FDR days and we agreed, there is nobody in Washington with a shread of integrity. The next President will be a Governor, and I don't see a lot of Democrat Governors in the news lately. I see Gendal and Palin getting eaten alive by Carville and Podesta. That tells me it will be one of them. WE are making comments on the horrible state we are in and the hyperinflation caused by the Feds printing a trillion dollars of what may as well be couterfeit money when considering what it will do to the currency in play now. |
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I agree. Let them stay. Not once, in the several years that I have been reading TH and occasionally 'contributing' have I read comments from any lefties that were persuasive or contained all the facts (and rarely any facts, especially from our resident hooligans). It's all agitprop. It takes me back to the 1960's (ugh). If someone who is unpersuaded reads the comments, we win every time. |
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The problem I have with these lefties is the volume of idiotic posts keeps me from reading what good posts there are.I have taken to ignoring certain names automatically. Others should also. |
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perfectly sure that there is no hell
Get really hot and bothered at other folks who insist on talking as though there is a hell. |
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And here I thought I was just engaging the opposition. For all the tough talk, suddenly a little dissent is treated as Soros Propaganda? The Daily Kos shuts down dissent too with its own Troll Patrol, a paranoid group as deluded as this...
But without us, less hits. Less eyeballs. Less ads. |
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Munck said:
"Obama's plan to increase the energy efficiency of millions of homes by adding insulation, making them more air-tight, etc. will both create a huge number of new jobs in the distressed housing construction area AND reduce our energy demands, saving money for the individual homeowner and keeping the price of oil and electricity low."
This is just another case of increasing employment by lowering productivity. It will now take more people to keep a house warm than it took before.
Even worse, once the houses are made efficient, the jobs are over and employment ends. The money saved in electric bills will never amortize the investment in insulation and construction (which is why no one is doing this now). The result is lower employment in the long term.
This was all done before by Roosevelt during the Great Depression. After the "great" public works were completed employment fell to levels even lower than before the projects began. Why? Because the cost of the new bridges, power plants, etc could never be amortized. The interest on the loans that financed them far outweighed the economic benefits!
Reagan was wrong, the closest thing to immortality isn't a government program. Economic fallacies can even outlive whole governments. |
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Yeah, but without them this site would only be half as much fun. Then I'd have to watch Olberman to get my laughs.
The best part is that some of them even believe they can influence or intimidate us.
And don't forget, while the Trolls are busy amusing us, the sheep sleep better. |
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You gave a coherent response, I'm taken aback. I am curious as to why you visit Townhall, since it strikes me as a waste of your time if you believe us to be nothing more than wingnuts.
Disturbingly, I agree that entertaining Breitbart's complaint is thin-skinned and unnecessarily fearful. The problem is not "leftie comments" - the problem are those comments exhibiting a total lack of civility and those who ignore the debate in favor of ranting about subjects not directly related. |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP-3_jyCS9Q
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Much as I love Bill Hicks he doesn't have a clue on this subject.
When you have seen the emergency services lining up the dead bodies at the side of the pitch resulting from a "hooligan" problem get back to me about how funny it is. I watched 39 people die as a result of one set of "hooligans" attacking another bunch of fans inside a stadium. That'll wipe the stupid grin off your face pretty fast.
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"What if doors and windows need to be replaced for the weather stripping to work."
Ok, I'd imagine they'd then replace them. The door and window companies are also in very bad shape. Wasn't that a window manufacturer that had its employees do a sit-in when the company tried to close the factory?
"Will they also fill holes in the floors, roofs and walls of these houses."
Is there some reason they shouldn't?
"And raise your hands if you want an Obamabot in your house."
So you're calling all the people in the building trades "Obamabots?" |
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WS: I'm sorry, I must have missed the "decorum" between Paddy wishing I would die of cancer and MaineConservative calling me every name in the book.
DTOM: It was right there next to your post where you called him a "bible thumper" and referred to his faith as "Jewish Fairy Tales:!
C'mon! |
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"F**K'UM...The Lefturds On TH Are Midgets
This is well known.
One wonders, though, what the compulsive, obsessive, multiple landslides of comment droppings by the likes of the Sad Vlad, White Sally Girl, Her Alter-Ego Christian, Kimber Ralaei...It's just a sea of blathering static/white noise, but what's their point..?"
An example of the kind of "intellectual honesty" manifested by purported "conservatives" that is all too common in these boxes.
But what about us annoying paleocons, Greg? Are you chomping at the bit to weed us out too?
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of the libs here, demonstrates how much they fear truth and factual reporting on their demigod, the boy-clown of DC otherwise known as TOTUS. They more than likely are 'Peggy the Moocher" types all hoping for the check in mail! Remember Peggy, she was going to quit her job because TOTUS was going to take care of her!
That same type of mentality resides here in the form of the libs and their commentary which can do nothing other than refer back to former President Bush and Sarah Palin. They ignore the tragic loss of autonomy for private enterprise in favor of gov't. regulation by individuals who only paid their back taxes because they were nominated by the "community organizer" for gov't. positions! They seem to skip over the fact that the "community organizer" who never managed anything now wants to manage GM and any other enterprise he thinks will get this country closer to socialism! |
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"That'll wipe the stupid grin off your face pretty fast."
Then shouldn't you be angered by Breitbart comparing blog commenters to the real thing? |
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"This is just another case of increasing employment by lowering productivity. It will now take more people to keep a house warm than it took before."
I have no idea what you're trying to say there. What productivity is lowered? What additional people are needed to keep the house warm after it has been better insulated?
"Even worse, once the houses are made efficient, the jobs are over and employment ends."
There are probably 100 million houses in the country that could benefit. There's also about as much commercial real estate -- offices, factories. By the time that's all taken care of, the recession will be over and the demand for new housing will be back to normal.
"The money saved in electric bills will never amortize the investment in insulation and construction"
Why do you think that? Show me the figures.
It certainly worked for me -- twice. I added a huge amount of insulation to my house in Massachusetts, and saved enough to pay for it in four years. Plus when I sold the house, I added double the cost of the insulation to the asking price, and got it. In our current house in Virginia, I added insulation and a geothermal system. Saved a HUGE amount in heating oil, such that it was paid for in less than three years. I'm now saving $2-3,000 every year over what I'd be spending if I hadn't done it. That's about $30,000 so far, for a $5,000 investment. |
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Re Hooligans:
If the shoe fits... |
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reminds this Sensitive Lexus Guy of one of those compulsive-obsessive-multiple-mo'is betta' Lefturds that finally Hugh said enuff with. Who was it...? Same volume of useless sewage... Remember...?
BLACK HOLES OF EMOTIONAL NEED.
Malignant Narcissists. Billy Bubba was the Poster Boy of all time NEED. Hillary having him on mute for 2+ months has gotta be KILLING him. It won't last much longer. he'll have to sabotage the Girl and The Bamma. Gonna be a fun show. |
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I admire your doings re energy efficiency, but folks like me probably can't afford to put in geothermal systems. "Green" houses are cost-prohibitive right now- maybe in 20 years, things will change.
With lots of folks losing jobs, paying for insulation and solar panels, tankless water heaters and the like is not going to be a high priority right now, even though it may help save money down the road.
Just my take on it.
You put in geothermal heating AND insulation for $5K? Where'd you get the stuff? |
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WS:So why are those as offensive as wishing people would die?
DTOM: You find a cancer wished on you offensive, and he finds mockery of his faith offensive. Maybe if you apologize for your offensiveness, he'll stop wishing bad stuff on you. I'd do it quick- Irish mojo is nothing to mess with!!!
"Judean Fairy Tales", "Jewish Fairy Tales", I can't keep it straight.
The Bible may be parables in some places, but is shown to be historically factual in others. Christians believe there's a lot of wisdom in there even if we don't take EVERYTHING literally. Finally, Jesus suffered horribly and died as a sacrifice for our collective sins, and there's no greater love than that. You don't believe, the Moslems just relegate him to 'prophet' status, but to me he's the Saviour of my eternal soul.
Don't ask me to prove it 'cause I'll lay a smackdown on ya! (It's FAITH, WS!)
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"Is this for new homes, existing homes, both?"
I don't think we're building very many new houses these days.
"I am assuming that the COST of this insulation is going to be paid by the homeowner, who will then apply for a rebate of some kind?"
Rebates or low-interest loans.
"based on what's happening with fuel consumption around here, it seems like the LESS fuel people use, the more the price goes up"
I don't know where you are, but for most of the nation, when gas went up to $4/gal last year, demand dropped and then the price dropped.
"folks like me probably can't afford to put in geothermal systems."
I didn't spend a penny out-of-pocket. Got a low interest loan and repaid it from what I saved on heating oil.
'"Green" houses are cost-prohibitive right now- maybe in 20 years, things will change.'
"Green" isn't all-or-nothing. Spend $5 to chalk openings around your windows, and your house is greener.
"You put in geothermal heating AND insulation for $5K?"
This was quite a few years ago, so inflation is a factor. Also, we were lucky that there's a good flow of water a short distance below the surface of our back yard (and unlucky that it's sometimes our back swamp). The water stays withing two degrees of 55° year around. The underground component was easy and cheap. Bull Run is slightly cooler in the winter because our house is warm. |
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"When the houses are caulked up tight as a drum, then the libbies will just start complaining about the formaldehyde fumes, backups of carbon monoxide from furnaces, and suchlike."
Air-to-air heat exchangers solve that problem, and they're something even an amateur carpenter can build.
Furnace? We don' need no stinkin' furnace. Our heat comes from the ground. |
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but mostly they are annoying. Kind of like flies that keep buzzing around you when you work in the garden. That's when you just have to skip over their posts and try to engage someone who appears sensible instead. |
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"It certainly worked for me -- twice. I added a huge amount of insulation to my house in Massachusetts, and saved enough to pay for it in four years. "
You did it because in your case it was profitable. Do you think that everyone else is an idiot? The places where it is profitable to replace the insulation have almost certainly had it done already. If it hasn't been added then these people need no incentive to add insulation because it pays.
You live in Mass, where the homes are old and the weather is cold. I lived in So Cal for years. The only way that the gas company could get people to add insulation was by paying them to add it! It was a huge loser there because the insulation cost is the the same but the gas bills are trivial compared to Massachusetts.
At present the goal is employment, not efficiency. Homes will get insulation even when they don't need it in order to keep people employed and that is where you lose money.
When the goal is more jobs the only way that it can be accomplished is by having more people do the same work or do work that is unnecessary. You don't need the government to make businesses hire people when it is profitable to do so just as you don't need the government to get people to invest in insulation when it's profitable to do so.
You only need the government when it is not profitable and that means more costly products and services.
That should make it clear what I meant by "lowered productivity". |
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christian writes: Tuesday, March, 31, 2009 8:50 PM
Hooligans?
"Then shouldn't you be angered by Breitbart comparing blog commenters to the real thing?"
Why should I be? Breitbart is using the word in it's generally defined sense of that of a "young person who behaves in a noisy and violent way in public" whereas Hicks was referring explicitly to incidents of "hooliganism" in the UK, a term almost exclusively attributed to organized soccer fan violence in that country.
My reference to to the 39 deaths at the Heysel Stadium was further indication of the understood meaning of the term as it was used by Hicks.
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"young person who behaves in a noisy and violent way in public"
Violent comments? Have you read some of the TH regulars here? Wishing for war and death to reign on all sinners and non-believers to foster their lack of manhood and lust for biblical retribution... |
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"The places where it is profitable to replace the insulation have almost certainly had it done already."
Unfortunately that's not true. Energy costs are a huge factor in the profitability, and until the spike last year, there was much less incentive.
"You live in Mass, where the homes are old and the weather is cold."
We moved to Virginia 20 years ago.
"I lived in So Cal for years."
Insulation reduces cooling costs, too.
"When the goal is more jobs the only way that it can be accomplished is by having more people do the same work or do work that is unnecessary."
That makes no sense whatsoever. There's a huge amount of work in the world that needs to be done but isn't. This is not a zero-sum game.
"That should make it clear what I meant by "lowered productivity".
No, it doesn't. Your arguments are nonsense. |
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The only thing they're good at is destroying the quality of any discussion. I stay away. I have better things to do than argue the Causes of the 2003 Iraq War for the 9,748,026,720,679,287,672,406,974,296,792,890,752,867,892th time. |
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That's exactly why they're here...to distract from the fact that we have the worst, most corrupt and destructive administration in our history.
We can learn from these leeches. For example, I have learned that if you're an atheist, you can lie, slander and ridicule all around you without fear of consequence because you're just a coward in mommies' basement and none of the real men can get you....
The internet is safe for nancy boys. Those of use who go out and live our creeds are pretty nauseated when we think of putting it on the line for garden slugs like them. |
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And your comments have spoken for themselves. |
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White sally, today we have found two things we agree on. This is the reason for this blogsite. It does not matter how many things we disagree on, if we work on like problems it is a start. If you are serious, and you sounded sincere about Soros, then we must find a way to rid the political world of this scum. He is not a liberal. He uses liberals as pawns to make his billions. He makes Bernie Madoff look like a rank amateur in total numbers of people economically devastated. Bad news is I can't think of any way to stop people from selling short. How do we know? It's like legislating morality, it just can't happen in a free society. Maybe they could limit the amount a person or block of people from selling in a given period. That would give little people a chance to see the punch coming. We agree to disagree on who caused the stimulis for the economy in the Clinton years. Everything he did was for re-election purposes. He never would have signed either the welfare or balanced budget bills without a huge public outcry. He had Carville doing polls daily to see which way the wind blew. That when put through the common sense test isn't so bad. He actually screwed his liberal base and broke most of his campaign promises to them, but he did what the people wanted. Even if it was for selfish reasons, it doesn't matter. Bottom is we agree welfare reform worked and vouchers are a good idea. That makes three things vlad. Where do we go from here? |
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christian writes: Tuesday, March, 31, 2009 9:53 PM
"Violent comments? Have you read some of the TH regulars here?"
Yes, and I have heard them on TV too and I have learnt to use the remote control/mouse to "change the channel"...try it some time, it's really liberating!
ps - I lifted the definition from a dictionary website...that's why it's in quote marks. |
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i find it disturbing that conservatives are so against free speech that they would want to weed out those who do not agree with them.
now i know that this can happen on some left websites like huffinton and such but that is why i don't participate there.
i object to the idea that we should all just listen to media that reinforces our own political point of view.
there is something anti-american about it whether it comes from left or right.
i want to have my views challenged and engage in spirited debate.
part of the problem in my humble opinion with conservatives right now is that they are not getting opposing points of view and are tone deaf.
quick example.
if you read most articles here you would think the entire country hates obama.
the reality is that he is supported by close to 2/3 (64%) of americans.
that means more people support him right now than voted for him.
that is a totally different perspective than you find here.
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That's what I keep telling the gorgeous Nigerian girl I go out with sometimes, but she won't believe me....! :-)
Anyway, coming from you, that's a compliment. |
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On the one hand, posters like DTOM, who actually likes to mix it up and are fairly interesting. On the other, tired losers like Neo and Paddy, who will not countenance any breach with their self-satisfied swill. In the middle, American "conservatism," trying to decide whether it is going to spiral into a psychotic little echo chamber--like talk radio, with its 67 year old average listener--or if it is going to step back from senility.
One thing for sure: the inspiration and vibrancy in American public life ain't coming from the Reeps. Shut us Dems out and you lose, not us. We are comfortable with the web. We are comfortable with back-and-forth. We are post-Boomer liberals and we are the future. You are foxnews and talkradio and drudge and top-down staleness. everyone knows what your deal is. a little paranoid, a little triumphalist, a lot uninteresting--one can drive a truck between what you think you know and what you really know. And no one--i mean, no one--is impressed by your metaphysical certitudes.
tell you what: put your ideas into the market, into the crucible, and see what happens. oh, you may get your feelings hurt, you may get emotional, you may experience a little death of the soul, but your worldview will become a little better conceived, be a little more formidable. it's called freedom. it's called America. it is the best system ever devised, Not gonna happen for you clowns until you stop trying to stamp out dangerous ideas and vilifying those of us who bear them. |
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"For example, I have learned that if you're an atheist, you can lie, slander and ridicule all around you without fear of consequence because you're just a coward in mommies' basement and none of the real men can get you...."
You are so right on. EVERYTHING the Left claims to stand for is just pretext.
Who is more racist than a Leftist attacking a black conservative?
Who is more sexist than a Leftist attacking a woman conservative?
Who is more homophobic than a Leftist attacking a gay conservative?
etc etc |
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Commie trolls are paid to post on conservative blogs. I'm not entirely sure who's paying them, but the evidence that they're being paid by someone is OVERWHELMING. Smug conservatives routinely deny it, but these paid Commie trolls are HIGHLY effective at demoralizing intelligent conservative conversation. Moreover, conservative blogs that don't ban Commie trolls are DAMAGING the conversative movement.
I've been saying this for YEARS, but for some reason the self-destructive conservative movement hasn't been paying attention.
In which case, rest in peace, my fellow conservatives. I grieve for us. |
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Munck, you have not taken into the debate the cap and trade taxes. If these are passed the CBO estimates a 3,000 dollar cost per household. Everything that uses electricity is going to be taxed. Gas for cars and heating and BBQs, on and on. The list just keeps getting bigger the more you think. Some of this bill will have to pass to pay for the 13 trillion dollars this administration will have amassed. I would like to declare a cease fire on Presidential blame when Congress writes all spending activities except for a three percent discretionary spending that is given the executive branch to work with for emergency situations. The budget the President gives Congress is a more of an outline. The final product as they say is sausage. Liberals have to come to grips with the magnatude of crimes committed by the Democrats. There will always be a both sides do it arguement, but the differences are comparing parking violations to mass murder. If you really count the bodies,the conservatives police their own much better than Democrats. The main word i a statement agreeing with the insulation thing is self pay. That is the way it has always been done and if you can't afford it then and only then should there be tax credits. Your were being sarcastic when you said where are we going to get warmth the earth? Yes, geothermal engineering is working as we speak and at a fraction of the cost of solar panels or alternative fuels, and specially wind power which is by far to expensive to be feasable. All geothermal heating is drilling a small hole deep into the earth, past the mantle and use the natural heat of mom nature. |
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When the lefty-loons actually stay on topic (which is very rare) it's often a good debate. But the fact remains that they almost ALWAYS go after messenger or bring up the old whine "well your guy blah blah blah".
If your asking if we should police them and shut them down, I'm for it. I look at it this way: If you can actually stay on topic and formulate an arguement you won't get flagged. If you constantly change the subject or go after the messenger you should get banned. If TH is not changing policies, it's no skin off my back. Sometimes I read them- most the time they are white noise (as so aptly noted previously) and easily scanned and skipped.
One other point of interest: There are at least 2 lefties here who constantly hit refresh trying to be the first to post on any given topic. They almost always change the subject. They should be the first to go. Their job is to dodge, deflect and distort before anyone else gets a chance to respond. Even if you don't implement a new policy here, you should get rid of them. |
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I laugh when some annoying obnoxious Leftist talks about freedom and liberty, or when they talk about some phatom conservative movement to silence them. (if only)
I can't imagine the mental pathology that is at the heart of these people's thinking... who can take people like so-called "Patriotic Liberal" seriously?
I couldn't imagine beintg a Left and just blantantly spouting lies about everyone else and apparently believing them myself. It's no wonder how unprincpled they are.. they hold to a viewpoint that requires them to believe so many things that are lies and dishonest... and they think everyone else is the same way which explains their hatred. |
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Welcome to the new Leo above from this Leo.I kind of like the confusion.Makes it tougher for Holder's Department of Justice to monitor our speech.I don't much lose sleep over what liberals say,just what they do.Want a real scary story-the most recent auction of T-bills was a flop.Say goodnight,Obama. |
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I have read most of your comments and I have be honest. I don't see a lot of points from your side of the arguement to debate. If you are sincere and it sounded like it, substance will tell, and we can maybe come to agreement on things and work on those like items instead of bashing the other parts that we disagre on. White salamander and I found three things today alone we agree on. Work on these and leave the rest for future discussion. Dread and I agreed on one thing yesterday. If you look hard enough, you can find at least somewhat similar beliefs. I will from this point on try to cut down on my cheap shots. They are not useful, but when bloggers such as Raelei get on with the blame Bush because every breath she takes is not pure oxygen it just makes me wonder why is she here. In the end we have to realize we are all talking about politicians. Nuff said there. As a closer patlib, the polls you refer to are popularity polls. Jimmy Carter and G.W. Bush had higher ratings at the same honeymoon period of their first terms. |
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The reason leftie trolls are always here first is because it's their JOB. They're PAID by Soros or whomever to disrupt and demoralize the once-effective conservative blogs.
Listen: Conservative blogs were highly instrumental in re-electing G.W. Bush in 2004. Soros and other libs understood this, and that's why they immediately implemented a plan to neutralize the conservative blogs, by hiring leftie trolls to infiltrate, disrupt, and dumb-down conservative blogs.
Even worse, these libtrolls have been highly effective. Why else do you think the conservative blogosphere has been SO USELESS for the past 2 election cycles???
Come on, conservative blogs, get hip to the facts. BAN LEFTIE TROLLS NOW. Otherwise, get used to the garbage heap of history. |
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"Those of use who go out and live our creeds"
But don't have the courage to sign their names to their opinions. It's easy to call other people cowards when you're hiding behind a fake name. |
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Paid by whom? I should be paid to post since this thread is at over 100 comments -- which equals ad revenue. Y'all should be thanking us... |
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John McCain resorted to paying people to say nice things about him on blogs. Google his failed "Spread the Word" website. I haven't heard anything about liberals being paid for their comments. Liberals had a head start online. There are more of them online. If the "pay to post" thing were true, I am sure I could find a few liberals who need the money.
Cons spend quite a bit of time over at Huffpo, so I'm not sure why there's so much hand-wringing about this among cons. |
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Practically everyone here has a handle ('cept YOU, apparently), and some folks have more than one. You would feel better if he was calling himself vladimir estragon? |
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Why, you don't think he can afford it? Or that he lacks the will to do it?
Listen, conservative blogs deserve to die if they don't get this. Soros declared war on the conservative blogosphere 4 years ago. We could easily neutralize his effort by banning leftie trolls. What's so hard about that? |
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I have thrown out three olive branches on this thread and not one of my direct suggestions have been addressed. If you wan't to argue like childrn, get the hell of the site. If you want to look for things we all have in common, we agree to work on those and ttable the rest for another day. This one i throw out unaddressed and see if anyone is serious or not. Then I will be able to answer this question of whether to get their butts back to Sorosville or back to the place the ACORNs fell from the poison Oak. |
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Why don't you just skip the posts that you don't want to read? Who are you going to ban anyway? The people who happen to disagree with you? What will the standards be? |
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"Practically everyone here has a handle"
Why? Are you personally afraid to use your real name? Are you ashamed of what you write?
The bloggers and columnists who write for the site all use their real names.
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The IBC energy code requirments have been doing exactly that for quite some time ,Obama had nothing to do with making homes more energy efficient ,Home builders and code enforcement have been working together on that issue for years . |
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"Obama had nothing to do with making homes more energy efficient"
If Obama as part of the stimulus program causes a few million houses to be retrofitted with additional insulation and other energy-conserving things, then he most certainly does.
I've never seen a building code that was applied to pre-existing houses and included financial help to do the job. |
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paid to express our opinion on townhall?
i wish because i would be a millionaire by now.
you are simply being paranoid.
the conservative movement is destroying itself from within and does need the help of liberals.
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Simple test for whether Soros pays leftists to post here: Let's BAN all leftie trolls, and see what happens.
Prediction: Level of conservative discourse will improve. Less time will be WASTED disputing idiotic lefitst commentary. More time will be spent debating and honing actual conservative ideas.
It worked in 2004. It could work again. But you have to ban the assholes. |
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You just proved my case. Your idiotic comment serves no purpose other than to disrupt and demoralize conservative commentary. I look forward to the day when you are banned. |
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"disrupt and demoralize conservative commentary."
Stop being mean to JPL17, christianlib. |
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I think you are overstating the importance of blogs in 2004. According to a Harris poll taken in 2008 only 53% of those polled said that they visit blog sites. Only 22% said they do so more than a few times a month. Roll that back to 2004 and the numbers must have been much smaller since blogs have grown exponentially since then. Now consider what the % of people actually influenced into voting a certain way, and I'm sure we're getting into teenie weenie numbers.
Conservatives don't win elections by preaching to the choir anyway. Banning people for dissenting views is bad policy everywhere. Sure, people who post for the sake of annoying others are, well, annoying, but how would banning them work? This would inevitably lead to a townhall intern monitoring each post. What's likely to happen? That person would have the power to ban people they don't agree with. How would that be a townhall? |
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Funny how Soros is the go-to liberal sugar daddy in wingnuttia's fevered group think. I never hear from the man, he never seems to really be part of any liberal organization or think tank, and yet he gets the credit for virtually every liberal thing out there. Is it because the rightwing can't think independently that they believe the left must also have their grassroots organizations and blogs funded by a 'higher being' (think Moonie Times, Boss Limbaugh, Scaiffe, Murdoch)? The Right has such a fixation on being led by daddy figures - authoritarian blowhards and such. Hilarious.
Meanwhile, I'm still waiting on that check you guys are so sure we liberals receive weekly from Soros. |
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i have posted on this site for 3 years and have made many conservative friends here. we hardly ever agree but are respectful to each other and have spirited debate on substantial issues.
i look forward to having my views challenged.
don't you?
i never insult or call names and am an honest person.
i have to go now but rest assured i am not paid to be here and have never known anyone who was.
i am here to be part of american democracy.
how about you? |
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you are a radical, not "conservative." your generation has soiled the good reputation of conservatism. in many respects, i am more conservative than people here--and I am humanistic, liberal, and democratic. over the past quarter century, when your side was ascendant, you did not listen to anything other than your own hubris. And as a result, you practically sank our country with your ill-conceived platitudes, your shoddy thinking. and now you propose to retreat again to your echo chamber. this is why your generation has virtually destroyed conservatism--well, actually, there will always be a place for true conservatism. your generation is afraid of ideas. your generation is afraid of the life of the soul. back in the 70s, when i was a young man, there was vibrancy on the right side of the aisle. today, only stale terror towards the marketplace of ideas. it really is pathetic. |
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Raelei? Nice liberal name. Don't hold your breath for a check from a greedy liberal. You libs wait for the check from us, the workers, the conservatives, the taxpayers.
liberal= gimme, gimme, I want, its my right on and on. |
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I will always salute a conservative countryman graced with even a small measure of humility and sincerity. that man i am proud to call 'compatriot,' and that man, regardless how different his views from mine, i shall respect until the day i die.
and now, friends, it is time to leave for the evening.. |
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Sure, I'm liberal, but most of the time I comment here because I don't have a conservative problem, but rather an idiot problem. Yesterday, the Rebecca Haglin column advertised the rantings of an author associated with the conspiracy theorist-themed website WorldNutDaily. Michael Medved has called it WorldNutDaily for a few years now because he recognized that the only thing the website prides itself on are news stories about how we are allegedly putting fluoride into the water supply to control peoples' minds. Fluoride actually makes you healthier, so you might want to thank the next person you see pouring fluoride into the water.
Anyway, the meat and potatoes of the column I'm talking about advertised this book called "The Marketing of Evil". I've actually skimmed through that book (for all my sins), and it essentially tries to claim that we are in a liberal version of "The Matrix". Do you see how irrational that sounds? Do you see how calling liberals "marketers of evil" is poisoning your mind? Sure there are bad people, but that isn't exclusive to one party or one ideology.
If this is the way that some conservatives think, then the motto of Townhall should be "Where only ONE opinion counts." |
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Not all conservativess are devisive. But it does get tiresome to constantly have radical left-wingers on this site.
I would never go to a left wing site to post a comment. Why bother? They wouldn't listen to me anyway, and reading their comments would probably annoy the crap out of me.
So why do all of these clueless lefties insist on posting here? |
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It's not as if they could change our thinking. Expressing a difference of opinion and exchanging ideas is usually a good thing. It's just those few persistent & irrational Libtards with the litany of Demo talking points, etc.. and yes, they probably are on a Soros payroll. Besides, the savvy TH Posters who call out those Trolls provide the rest of us with many a chuckle.. |
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Perhaps old George and his buddies let you down, didn't follow through on their promises.
Or perhaps you just expected a reward where one was just implied, but not contracted. Good luck to you!!! |
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Good point. Nice tag line, by the way.
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trust we recognize them, They are the same Obama's radical THUGs Obama sent to terrorize the children and spouses of the AIG employees.
We just brush them off.
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GIGGLE, the OBAMA RADICALS and thugs, are still bashing BUSH, ENRON, Haliburton !
oh giggle giggle giggle
We recognize then and ignore them!
They are SOOOOOOOOOOOO obvious:
They are always right anyway because they just make it all up: |
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Especially on internet stock chat rooms when political discussions take over. If you make a conservative comment you can expect at least 4 different people (or usernames) coming back at you. I hate it when they say use that BS refrain 'I was a conservative' when they are obviously not and never were. |
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WELL, so typical, GOP / conservatives / moderates just cannot resist rolling over and playing dead!
So now we are a communist country and they are still hiding from reality:
MY ancestors gave their lives for this country.
The radicals, parasites, leeches, drunks, druggies, deranged, have destroyed this country and their Radical Leader Obama will finish us off because the GOP / conservatives, moderates are pretending nothing is wrong with revoking all of our rights, freedoms.
IT ALL STARTED BACK when Clinton banned dodge ball, and the democrats in IOWA banned sledding
it has been a slippery slope to the hell we now face and the spineless GOP, just stand around and keep looking surprised.
HUGH HEWITT and those like him are so "BLIND" they pump themselves up everyday to fabricate and distort the facts of reality and are still trying to convince themselves that OBAMA is NOT a radical and is not on a deliberate fast track to enforce his socialist agenda.
SO THEY NEED TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR TO SEE WHY OBAMA is taking over the PRIVATE SECTOR, Punish the productive, the successful, the responsible,
and ultimately inflict evil revenge on every citizen in the USA.
WHEN the bread lines are 3 blocks long and the shelves are empty and the "YOUTH ARMY" are in control, they will wonder HOW THEY MISSED the training of OBAMA by his mentors William Ayers, SOROS, etc. |
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Glenn Beck
Lars Larson
Mark Levin
BILLY Cunningham
Rush
Laura
Hannity
Jerry Doyle
even Savage
The milk toasts like
HUGH
Medved (who gave us Mccain)
can stand around surprised, and peep now and then.
WE HAVE all turned the page on the spineless.
NOTICE: the Tea Parties
Notice: the 9-12 Project
Notice: The July 4th freedom rallies
Notice: Grassfire
Notice: resistnet
Notice: the "circle of influence resistance activities and meetings.
WE KNOW WHERE TO GO TO get HONEST FACTS!
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A FORUM for the "concerned" independents, conservatives, moderates. |
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R U LISTENING ?
Rick Santelli
Jim Cramer
OBAMA supporters YELL, this is NOT what we understood we were getting.
NOT GOOD say:
Jack Welch
Warren Buffett
OBAMA SUPPORTERS, not what we understood were were getting.
WHERE IN THE WORLD IS ROSS PEROT when we need him to rant! |
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Who left the country with 10 trillion in debt, and who's the Idiot trying to sell that statement, why that would be the anphibian with a virus that causes dyslexia. Obama owns his share of this economy from the time he was elected a US senator. |
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Do these trolls actually believe what they espouse? Are they even capable of thinking independently for themselves using honesty and common sense.After all anyone can put down an intelligent sounding post but if you blindly follow lockstep to every bodily function of another human being as they do Obama,well..how intelligent can they be?Even NPR and the UAW are confused with O's latest "warranty" speech.The UAW workers must be saying WTF is this all I get for all these years of donating 10% of my salary!So are the trolls being intellectually dishonest or are they just intellectually challenged? As white Sal so intelligently states:only the sky pixie knows for sure. |
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Clinton banned dodgeball? Dems in IA banned sledding? can't say i agree with THAT!! |
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I love the phrase "intellectual honesty" especially noting today's date. Happy April Fools Day. |
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I think that the left-wing hooligans that post on these sites only make the conservatives realize how unrealistic these libs really are. I know for me I become more conservative each time I read a post by people like Raelei or Salamander. I realize that these left wing nuts are living in a land of make believe and it is no wonder they follow a man like Obama who is destroying our future. It is sad that they must continue to ignore what is going on now in the country and must remind themselves each day that they must repeat hate Bush. Instead of ever discussing the problems of today and how our constitution is being trampled on they just keep going back to Bush. As Obama bankrupts our country they spout that Bush spend too much money. For me this just cements my conservative values. When I read their posts and their idiotic ideas I realize that we must get these libs out of power. I for one am glad that they expose themselves for the idiots they are. |
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Check out who luvs ya at 10:39pm. Oy! You've arrived at the pinnacle of...errrr....DANGER.
:-)
Don't worry, Lass, we do luv you. The sewage in question is game playing wit'cha.
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You clearly don't understand how free markets maximize productivity. Just because you are incapable of understanding anything that goes against your politics doesn't mean that two hundred years of failed government control of markets isn't true.
You're seriously suggesting that everyone is an idiot who will not do something that makes economic sense. Even worse, you're suggesting that by doing things that are unprofitable (which means destructive of capital) the government will increase real employment. The government cannot create wealth, it can only redistribute it by force.
All government jobs are either superfluous, in that they replace market based work, or counterproductive in that they force people to act in unproductive ways.
The most conclusive experiment with government controlled markets was performed by FDR. That experiment is called "The Great Depression".
The US was mired in the depression longer than many other places because of the stupid market manipulations that first Hoover and then Roosevelt implemented.
So go ahead and live in your dream world where force is practical and freedom is not. It won't change the result that Obama's economic program will lower productivity and decrease the standard of living. |
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this retrofit program has been in place in one form or another since the early eighties ,and has pretty much proven to be a failure ,lots of fraud ,lots of shoddy work pretty much unmanageable , all homes being currently remodeled have to meet the new energy codes, during times like this remodeling grows at a rapid rate, instead of buying a new home people fix up the one they have . let me leave you with another prime example of similar failed goverment policy. congress mandated low water usage toilets ,every one flushes 2 to 3 times resulting in an increase in the use of water ,fortunatley that is slowly changing with better technology,but it is still along way from acomplishing it's goal . |
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I am more amused at the liberal bloggers than demoralized by them. I have not had time to read through all of these posts but am amused by what I have read.
A few random thoughts:
Muck - (and maybe someone made this point) If one's windows need to be winterized, shouldn't that be the person's responsibility who actually lives in or owns that structure? Why should I, living in the cold state of Maine, expect you, living in the warmer state of Virginia, or wherever you live, to insulate my home? Conversely, should I be expected to air condition your house? Do you also want me to come over and check the inflation of your tires as well?
The liberals on this site provide for some good contrast to conservative ideas and ideals. My only concern in the volume of liberal droppings that they leave. Sometimes the voluminous drivel precludes me from even having time to read through to get the gist of the discussion and thus, contribute to the debate.
Some I have even quit reading - most of you know I don't ever read White Slime-O-Whiner's post anymore - a fact that I see from other's re-posts of his comments still bothers him, which amuses me. Bladder of Estrogen/Chritian/Realei/Pathetic Liberal/you an whose army/Loonny/Fwank all are alike - which reinforces our opinion of the ignorance of liberalism. Muck is more amusing to me. I kind of like that guy. He's the one who's further left than the scale even registers. |
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I sometimes think we lose sight of who’s at fault for the current economic situation we find ourselves in and what we should do about it by placing labels on each other. For example, conservatism gets blamed for the Bush bailout plan which was not a conservative approach at all. Full disclosure – I am not a Republican. I did not vote for McCain – I voted 3rd party.
Let's drop these labels for a second and examine it from a different scale - total government control on one end (left scale) and no government on the opposite extreme (right scale). The founding fathers established the Constitution which provides for small government with minimal control. If you want to characterize that as far right, so be it. We need government to protect American citizenry's right to life liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. That's it.
That being the scale, the current Dems are very close to the total government control extreme and the Repubs are not far to the right of the Dems - still far left of the center of the scale. The definitions of both conservatives and liberals have been skewed so, depending on whose definition you're using, they could be placed at varying places on that new scale.
For me, it's frightening to see how much power we, the people, have allowed government to assume. It happened with the Bush administration and is accelerating at an alarming pace under Chairman O. Somehow, we - yes, you and I, have to stop it.
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I don't think I need that kind of publicity. |
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Dang skippy he's correct, and most of them are paid to disprupt. In light of this discussion, Townhall needs to take better control of their own moderation. |
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I'm not intimidated or demoralized by any of them. Not one. In fact, one of my favorite pastimes was going over to Kos, Huffpo, or another statist site to rake some muck. You know, be a troll. I stopped going to those sites because of the constant censorship of conservative comments. Heck, even ABC's Jake Tapper employs censorship on his blog. I can understand censoring the profane, but the statist media actively censors anything embarrassing to, or that questions the efficacy of, statism.
Thank goodness TH doesn't employ such tactics. One thing though, the trolls on conservative sites seem to have gotten into the rather boring routine of blaming Republicans for doing the same thing the Dems are currently doing (no problem), and then claiming that conservatives approved of the actions of the GOP (problem). Though this line is continuously put down like a rabid dog, it is used over and over by the same statist trolls. I understand why. As statists have eschewed reason, liberty, and personal responsibility, statist Republicans are the only ones trolls can criticize. And if they can tie conservatives to Republicans, at least in their own minds, all the better.
BTW, I'm not sure why Hewitt closed down his "comments" section or that it was because of statist trolls. Hewitt isn't very conservative, and he was criticized by conservatives mightily on a daily basis. In fact, Hewitt was a BIG advocate of the bank bailout last fall of which conservative criticism was loud, overwhelming, and in my case, acerbic.
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"Much of Mr. Obama's vaunted online strategy involved utilizing "Internet trolls" to invade enemy lines under false names and trying to derail discussion."
Where is this documented? What do we know about Obama's "online strategy"?
Here's a "true fact" for you: The McCain campaign urged supporters to "earn points" by posting at liberal sites - http://www.politicususa.com/en/McCain-Spam
Breitbart: "The Huffington Post, Daily Kos and other left-leaning sites benefit from the right's belief that there are rules and decorum in political debate and civic engagement."
Look, the vast majority of internet discussion isn't worth the pixels on the screen. But it is entirely absurd to argue that the right observes "rules and decorum." Are their ignorant, semi-literate leftists posting at Democracyunderground and Moveon and Kos? Absolutely! Do any of you principled conservatives here at Town Hall want to step up and tell us how Leo and Average Joe are observing "rules and decorum," let along simple intelligence?
I know what a "troll" is, and the liberals here at Town Hall are not trolls. A liberal troll would come in and say something grossly racist in order to suck in the wackos of the right. You can all disagree with Raelie and the others (and me), and we can be as snarky as anyone else, but we are coming in here and trying to make legitimate points.
We're not at Moveon or Kos because we're not interested in echo chambers. Who here can say the same?
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It has occurred to me as well that regardless of what is said by liberals here, regardless of links provided and easily attained cold, hard facts, you in the rightwingosphere will only 'see' and believe what is spoonfed directly to you by a certain sub-set of human beings --- Boss Limbaugh for example, whose inflamed bloviations are proven wrong and misguided virtually every time he opens his substantial gawp. We liberals KNOW you are currently a hopeless cause, at least I do.
The thing is, Diane, you can always pray to evolve to a level of thinking that isn't fear-based or change-averse; to get beyond the lizard brain and 'grow legs' to walk land with the rest of curious society. Maybe, just maybe, if you don't ALWAYS hear the reinforcement of rightwing talking points in the comment section, and you somehow manage to break away from Limbaugh's lockstep and think, research, suspend your fear and truly investigate the information the world outside the bubble is providing - basically accept the challenge to step out of the rightwing quagmire of spoonfed talking points - THEN you may actually begin to see the light of day.
This is exactly why the Gregs and Blartblarts of the paid shills is concerned about the liberals here - there is a chance that the sheep will actually use reason and suddenly see the world outside the barking dogs keeping them in line with Boss Limbaugh's cigar smoke screen. |
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You're right. The accusations here by blartblart mirror what the Republicans have been doing all along - it's a classic case of rightwing transference, and they do it ALL the time.
Projection/transference is there last resort. Imagine a President (or wingnut commentator on FoxNews) of recent history who hasn't used the teleprompter to send a message - but the wingnuts have pulled "a Rove" and turned President Obama's oratory elegance into a controversy about reading from a prompter! And the MSM has picked up the nonsense to make it story with legs, if you can believe it. Forget that Reagan was the first to use the camera and prompter as tools to elevate his legend, and he was an actor of very little substance -- the right has themselves convinced that Obama is handicapped by the prompter. This from the group that brought us Bush, who never met a complete sentence he couldn't mangle - even those fed to him via prompter or ear piece. Incredible. |
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Us Evil Cabalistas do that for one another.
That particular vermin is an bottomless appetite of the finger wagging-7th grade hall monitor variety. |
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I looks like the majority of comments on this thread have been made by Leftists. Many of the comments are off-topic.
Like Bo Gritz says, "You know you're over your target when you start catching flak." Fortunately, the flak from Leftists lacks size and trajectory. |
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See, this is the problem with trying to have a legitimate discussion with your ilk. All you can do is insult and denigrate.
You talk about facts, and you can always go back to your liberal sites and come back with quotes you pass on as facts, and others who refute you can do the same thing with conservative sites.
What I think people should do is use their own God-given brain and think, and then trust their own instincts. Does it make sense that Obama can promise to reduce taxes to 95% of Americans and at the same time reduce the deficit and national debt while pushing through spending more than any administration in history?
Most people who have to live and pay for their own way will come to realize that it is impossible to spend your way to prosperity and to borrow your way out of debt. It just makes no sense. |
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Most of the comments by the liberals on this site belong in chat rooms not blogs. If you don't know the difference between the two, it just reinforces my arguement. Salamander, we once more agree to a point. The Reagan paraphrase is right on. The numbers concerning the deficit or debt are way of base. As I have said Congress controls the money. Bush signed Tarp one, and may he burn in hell for it, but the Dems. authored it from front page to back. And the CBO numbes saying Obama's plans will triple the debt in ten years. The yearly deficits will also be double any of the bush years. One more point. While we point fingers, we forget to point at the entire world economy tanking. We are the only industrialized country in the world to show growth for the last three years. Even the crisis year of 2008, our GDP grew at 1.3 percent. The lowest sincr the Carter years but positive none the less. |
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They're following their little verminous marching orders for serial clogging and multiple compulsive posting.
The Site Administrator needs to know Conservative exhaustion with these Black Holes of Lefty Emotional Need: chris.regal@townhall.com |
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Dittoes from the "Way Life Used To Be" State. You and at least one other way back on this thread made the point I have used generally many times. The danger of all Federal legislation is it screws more States than it helps. The reasons for States rights are in soimple eighth grade engish in the Federalist papers and the tenth amendment. "The Living Thoughts of Thomas Jefferson" is also a book I highly recommend for people serious about original intent. The constitution is not a living breathing document and we are smothering it slowly up 'till now. Now we are trying to finish it off as soon as possible. The needs in one corner of the country are always different from others. Often it hurts the other side with there well intentioned bought and paid for votes. What chance does a State like Maine have with our massive representation in the house and our two prestigious Senators competing with larger States? Zip, Zero, Nada and squat come to mind. |
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Is that the same CBO report that has clinton and congress leaving with a 3.5 trillion deficit that has built up for years. |
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"I looks like the majority of comments on this thread have been made by Leftists. Many of the comments are off-topic."
In fact, scrolling up and down shows you precisely the opposite. The liberals are talking about the subject - the Breitbart article - and the conservatives are all talking about what idiots the liberals are. |
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Most of the time that I click on a reference to a post by Hugh Hewitt, I don't get the comments section. I've seen references to him shutting down his comments, but the blue links here at Town Hall show that regulars are still commenting there. What am I missing? |
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If you call laughing your a$$ off at how ignorant this lefites are demoralizing, then yes I am very demoralized.... |
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"Most of the time that I click on a reference to a post by Hugh Hewitt, I don't get the comments section."
I can't tell what's going on their either. Those links are generally to hughhewitt.townhall.com. Normally when someone uses a link of the form xxx.domain.com, it's an alias for domain.com OR a pointer to an entirely different server.
Here if you delete the "hughhewitt." from the link, you get the same content for the blog entry, but different formatting and a comments section.
This makes no sense. For one thing, such links are often to a specific comment, but you don't see it until you mechanically delete "hughhewitt." (i.e. by putting the cursor in the right place in the browser's address field, use backspace or delete to remove the characters, then hit CR).
It's almost certainly due to rank incompetence on the part of the TH web builders and maintainers. |
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No...it's genius.
They have confounded you, but we figured it out....
Hugh hates lefty posters with a passion....
...this is well known. |
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"They have confounded you"
In what way? |
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How thin-skinned and unsure of your own philosophy do you have to be to be threatened by three or four blog commenters? But it makes sense - today's GOP is the biggest political ostrich ever created. They keep digging their head deeper into the ground to block out the muffled sounds of reality...
And Raelei is dead on: nobody I know EVER mentions Soros or thinks of him in any political capacity. But that Rush-Rove meme has stuck like all the others --again despite reality -- and you bring it out over and over and over...Like I said, wish I was getting paid here...Since we're bringing the hits and comments... |
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nonsense only encourage them.
It is obvious you have to check your use of reason at the door to support Maobama.
By the way, has anyone found out what is so damaging in Maobama's past that he is spending millions of dollars to keep it hidden?
No, I did not think any one knows.
If you really want to understand the death of journalism, all you have to do is know that there is not one mainstream reporter or even commentator who is curious about why Maobama has spent millions to keep his birth certificate and college records hidden.
What is Maobama hiding?
What kind of people need to hide their birth certificate and college records? |
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Thanks, but don't worry about it: Paddy will explain it all to us in just a minute. |
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Is he a coward?
We already know he is both ignorant and not-too-smart.
Should coward be added to the list of adjectives that are applied to Maobama?
Not one leftist has dared to explain why Obama is afraid to reveal his birth certificate and college records. The leftists are even afraid to think about the possible reasons.
Are all leftists, in the end, just cowards?
Since they are so fond of their cowardly president, it only stands to reason that a person becomes a leftist because deep down inside they are cowards and scared-to-death of the truth. |
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cowardly supporters. That would make a good bumper sticker. |
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that leftist know-things are demoralizing to sound-thinking Americans.
Based on my perusal of the net, they appear to motivate more than demoralize.
Who could be demoralized by the pathetic, inane and sometimes downright stupid postings of a bunch of cowards? |
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He loves it when he drives you Liberals up a tree.
By gosh, he's really got you scared about how poorly the Dems are doing, doesn't he? He's getting through to you! Excellent, excellent! |
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that the hall proctor argument is getting pretty stale, coming from a finger-wagging school marm who makes it his life mission to bounce people from townhall. Yeesh. what a buffoon.
No matter, DTOM. i wasn't reaching out to you, exactly. i have no doubt that you will love the cabal more than truth--right-wingers these days lack humility and prefer the hubris and triumphalism that comes with belonging to a like-minded band. have fun playing with your new friends. we grown-ups will press on ahead without you.. |
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"MAOBAMA the coward and his cowardly supporters."
Yes, I can see that on a fleet of cars. It rolls right off the tongue. |
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..then this adult has to get back to work: no one over on our side of the aisle has a problem with el Rushbo. We love the guy. He is the face of your party--and if you haven't noticed, not much equity in the Reep brand these days. He is low on grace, low on character, and has a fistful of proven-stupid ideas that he blatts from the rooftops. keep that guy coming. heck, we'll pay his hundred million dollar salary just to keep him in front of the American public. so, don't you worry about Rush and us--he's the man!! |
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The fool has said in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
Psalm 14:1
Sounds like the folks Mr. Breitbart was talking about..... |
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I wrote, "I looks like the majority of comments on this thread have been made by Leftists. Many of the comments are off-topic."
You wrote, "In fact, scrolling up and down shows you precisely the opposite. The liberals are talking about the subject - the Breitbart article - and the conservatives are all talking about what idiots the liberals are."
You should read what I wrote a little closer. Statists have made the majority of comments. Many (not most) are off-topic.
Conservatives often are induced into off-topic conversations because of statist (not liberal) idiocy. The fact that I feel the need to respond to the fact that you cannot read carefully is evidence that the author is on point.
Congrats! |
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there is no negative correlation between being a damn fool and believing in Jesus. we see proof of that every day on these threads. |
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You've been spot on. Ignore them.
They are asking to be removed by their comments. I really don't know where I fall. I guess it would be "moderate moderation". I really don't like preaching to the choir. However, there is no point in responding to 90% of the lefties posts. They have nothing to do with the topic.
PL is a good case in point. I'd remove it immediately. |
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just answer the question, Why is Obama spending millions of dollars to keep people from viewing his birth certificate and his college record?
You must have the answer since you know it has nothing to do with his eligibility to be POTUS, which by the way was never the topic of my questions.
It is hard to believe no one is curious why one of the most powerful men in the world is afraid to let people examination documents from his past.
Really, a simple explanation for his fear is all I seek.
It is you who imputed his presidential eligibility in to the discussion, not I.
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if we are going to talk about fear, why do not we discuss Obama's fear of exposure?
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to a candid world.
The Plumber writes: Wednesday, April, 01, 2009 10:53 AM
Notice
I looks like the majority of comments on this thread have been made by Leftists. Many of the comments are off-topic. |
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Well, I just went through the entire thread again, and every comment from a liberal is either addressing the Breitbart column, or directly responding to something somebody else posted. The conservative posts are often on-topic, but just as often going in different directions, or falling back on their standard invective (Leo 6:36 p.m., NeoConSum 6:38 p.m., Don't Tread On Me 6:45 p.m., Trampling Out the Vintage 6:49 p.m.). And we can always count on eddie too to jump in and ask why Obama is too cowardly to show us his birth certificate, but tell you what, we won't hold that against the rest of you. |
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"one thing for sure..
there is no negative correlation between being a damn fool and believing in Jesus"
Did you just string some words together or is this staement actually supposed to have some meaning, other than incoherent jibberish.
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Thanks. Believe me, I pass by the vast majority of comments made by statists. They by-and-large lack reason and are therefore easy to dismiss. |
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I have changed my mind since yesterday. I at first said because I fought for their right to their freedom to spew pap, I have spent ten hours on this site. I have beat down numerous pap arguements and all I ever get in return is "blah" or much worse. The ones that are sincere liberals who want to debate would be fine by me, but the responses I have recieved since convinced me these are ACRN volunteers or paid hacks from Soros. There has been six threads on this site since I wrote my post yesterday that have video clips with the evidence coming straight from the horses mouth, and the liberals are no where in sight. The only threads they can't make up some lame excuse to blur the lines or flat out insult with sophomoric slurs have no libs. What a shock. I am sick of wasting my time trying to actually find some mutual ground to agree on and work on those and I get kicked in the teeth. I have just had it. There may be two regulars on this site that are not hacks. Let the adults try and get our constitution back! |
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"I have spent ten hours on this site."
John, your comments are generally large dense blocks of semi-coherent stream-of-consciousness idiocy. I doubt that anyone reads most of them.
Learn to break things into paragraphs, learn to use correct grammar and spelling, learn to write coherently and cogently. |
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Your selective knowledge and/or ignorance of history is comical to me. Your 6:29pm comment reveals much about you intellectual maturity.
Let me guess, your real name is...Jeramiah Wright?
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Can't attack facts. Just look real close and find some inane trivial thing to plog the blog. You and Vlad and Munck et al must read them. Or maybe not. The answers I get make me wonder. Just for the record teach-paragraphs are used to change a subject matter. Why do liberals have to repeat a persons old post on yours before you answer inanely? Is your attention span that short you forget who or why or what you are referring to every couple seconds. I can remember what I said in my posts. Munckey, try readings on the pap you spew. There is really not much because you never say anything. You just critique and crabass. |
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Yeah, first of all you damn Christianity because some claimed the faith but didn't practice it. Cheap shot.
Next, the Crusades were in answer to Muslim aggression. Every one of the Crusades were called for this reason. The last, if I remember history correctly, was urged on by Mongols seeking help from Europeans due to Muslim agression in Asia.
The Nazi's were statists. They did not place their faith in God, they placed their faith in the State and the Furher. Nazi belt buckles are the equivilant of a Democrat wearing a US flag pin: it'd be meaningless if it weren't hypocritical.
The good? Locke's First Treatise helped form the basis of human rights, even as specific as the modern concept of women's rights.
Later Christians (John Newton, William Wilberforce) used Biblical text to argue against, and eventually end the practice of slavery in the Atlantic with the Slave Trade Act of 1807. Citing that it is incongruous with Judeo-Christian principles to own someone made in the image of God.
Slavery, as you know, is still practiced and tolerated where human rights and individual liberty are dulled or altogether nonexistent.
I'm not a particularily religious person, nor do I know much about Christianity, but I can tell that your knowledge is even more limited than mine. I can also tell that you are more emotional than logical when it comes to issues regarding the Christian faith.
I could probably go on for hours, but I'm tired and I have a long day tomorrow. Later hater. |
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In their efforts to refute the statements of Mr Hengler, they confirm hs assertions! How rich is this?
I'd like to thank the following:
James
V Estrogen
Loony
(Social) Vampire
Rail-ee
Blob Munkee
Sally-man (der)
(Psuedo) christian
Merxt
christian-fib
Pathetic Liberal
TReason
Styx
Better than any of us regulars, you've proved the point of the article. TYVM! |
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these leftists do not intimidate me or many others who post to these blogs.
Since they seldom have anything to add to a discussion, it is best to leave them mulling in their own incoherence, hypocrisy, ignorance and deceit.
I try only to acknowledge them when I want to point out their lies or on the rare occasion they actually use logic. |
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white sal actually believes Maobama is spending millions of dollars to keep his birth certificate and college records hidden because he values his personal privacy.
Has anyone out there ever had to surrender their birth certificate to prove their claim of citizenship?
Has anyone out there ever had to submit their college transcripts when they applied for a job.
white sal is being completely disingenuous in his post addressing the issue. He knows he is being disingenuous. He is deliberately trying to confuse and mislead. He is in no way trying to advance knowledge or discussion. This is why he is best left sauteeing in the juices of his mental illness and hatred. By ignoring all his posts except to correct his lies is the best strategy for addressing him and those like him.
I would not ban their posts. It is far more effective simply to ignore their nonsense. |
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And most of you are getting an "F" in logic and grammar. Hilarious how frightened so many Republicans are of education. Bush went to Yale, right? Course, he was busy cheerleading, drinking, snorting and branding frat pledges... |
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Since you've called me out by name, please point to one post of mine that is "spewing ... talking points to thwart the dissent of the newly-out-of-power."
Or trying to "ensure that President Obama is not subject to the same coordinated, facts-be-damned, multimedia takedown they employed over eight long years to destroy the presidency - and the humanity - of George W. Bush?"
You called me out - I'm calling you out. |
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Your messiah wasn't so innocent when it came to Drug use. |
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I originally voted to leave these people on site for etical reasons. I fought for their freedoms and thought taking them away would be as bad as limiting free speach. The 36 hours after that post I spent doing experiments to see if it was true about professional aggitaters on the blogspace just to disrupt constructive thought. I know now beyond any doubt this is true. I will give you two examples of these seminar boggers. I call them this because it appears they are iether the same person using multiple names or they took aggitation class at the Soros inst. They always take a part of a persons post, hand chosen because it was the easiest to throw a fog bank around, but would leave the real evidence behind. I have caught bloggers using usernames Frank and Vladamir Estragon. The one for Frank I got in a net using a poignant story of the FBI chasing the murderer of two CIA agents outside Langley Va. HQ. He went to far when he said the FBI agents followed the man to Pakistan and brought him back. Anyone with a clue about our agencies knows the FBI jurisdiction ends at the border and gets turned over to the State dept. He denied this fact for seven blogs using cheap shot slurs and more lies to back up his defenseless case. These people refuse to look up simple ggogle info I supply to them showing beyond any doubt their presence here is insincere. |
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The second case is even more blatantly blog clog. This involves Vladamir Esrtagon as he calls himself. I refer you to your thread on the "Don't ask Don't Tell" policy changes Obama had in mind. This person alleged thousands of gays had been kicked out of the service for being gay. I played around with him to see if I could get him in deeper and he bit like the lame liberal he is. I told him you could always tell a liberal is not truthful when he uses whole generic numbers like Thousands, why not 2849 if he knew for sure he could give exact numbers. He came back with this pathetic response" The pentagon documents" show Blah blah and more blah. I was done playing then and told him even if the pentagon would want to open those documents to him, he would need a JAG Judge to give permission to open sealed privacy documents and you would have to prove a need to know and the fact that the military would take six months just to get through the first layer of bureaucracy. He never got back to me on that particular subject, but his disinformation and irritation program is in full speed ahead mode as this is written Sun. April 5th 11:15 PM. Please get these blog cloggers off and let the rest of us try and get our constitution back. This is not a chat room, it is a forum of rational debate. There are at least six people who fit the above description on town hall. I take this threat from this dangerous President very seriously and have a wealth of knowledge on American history and our founders original intent. I would love to get in a true debate with a liberal with humility enough to admit he is wrong or prove to me differently. Semper Fi |
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