Thursday, February 21, 2008
|
|
Sounds Like a Swan Song
|
|
Posted by:
Amanda Carpenter at
10:05 PM
|
She didn't cry, but Hillary Clinton ended the CNN debate tonight with emotional "no matter what happens" sort of talk.
From the transcript: "You know, the hits I've taken in my life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country. And, I resolved at a very young age that I'd been blessed, and that I was called by my faith and my upbringing to do what I could to give others the same opportunities and blessings that I took for granted. That's what gets me up in the morning. That's what motivates me in this campaign and, and you know, no matter what happens in this contest, and I am honored, I am honored to be here with Barack Obama. I am absolutely honored. And you know, whatever happens, we're going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people, and that's what this election should be about."
|
|
|
While I am "in my rubber room" talking to myself(as you said).You will be in your self-made prison talking to your demons.We can pity each other. |
|
You are very adept at twisting a persons words,I think you go into a rage and are not even aware of what you are writing.Listen up...I did not say the Jews "deserved" persecution.Your words.I said the BIBLE says they lost favor with God by disobeying Him.I do believe the Bible
From your writing,I would say you are the one who cannot take criticism.You say I am fanticizing what I believe.O.K,all the things you have read in your history books about the evils Christians,etc.have done is a fairytale.Lies.Did you see it? You take someone else's word for it?Just because it is written in a book,does not make it true.They made up the entire history you are so fond of quoting.It is lies told by hateful,predjudiced fools who wanted to turn one culture against another.
Do you see how foolish that sounds?That is the way you sound to me.You have more smarts than I,but you are NOT smarter .You are a poor,soul on the verge of some kind of breakdown,you cannot harbor that much hate and be normal, or think rationally.
As to abortion,yes it is murder,plain and simple,even if they may eventually be Christians.
Or if they were to become as mixed up and wrong
as you seem to be.It is still murder. |
|
|
Christians can't take critique. they are so used to making outrageous statements like "I think the Jews were persecuted because they disobeyed god" and nobody calls them the hateful spiteful anti-semitic monsters that they really are. They walk around in a cocoon of self-deluded grandeur and protection because their sickness dominates society. If I said black people were slaves because they didn't believe in the Yankees I would rightfully be called a racist psychopath. Say the same thing and replace god and I'm just a guy with different religious beliefs. |
|
I'm sure, will join me in prayer that you may experience for yourself and encounter with Jesus Christ Himself. Once that happens, I pray your demons leave you...
What you do with this gift is up to you, but I pray that the Lord may be so gracious as to provide you with this opportunity.... |
|
Classic Conservative. Make a statement like "the jews deserve it" (and don't deny that's what you said) and then bring up abortion.
You're a hateful spiteful little person who believes in magic. I'm a hateful spiteful littler person who doesn't believe in magic. You see evil in the world and wait for your guidebook to tell you if its wrong. I look at evil in the world and make a judgement on it based on rational thought. You are little different than a woman in a rubber room talking to herself. You can deny it all you want but you haven't proven otherwise. You've been "redeemed" by magic and pixie dust? Bravo. I help people and find that redeeming. Who is actually making a difference in the world? The real world mind you, not Imagination Land where murdering Jews is ok because god said it was a good idea.
Do you abhor abortion because you consider it murder or because your pocket guidebook told you so? If you honestly believe its murder based on rational thought, why do you hate your fairytale so much that you dare to use your brain instead? Why do you hate God so much?
Evil spiteful conservatives. They only brake if the puppy is cute or their inner voice tells them to do so.
And you certainly are a threat to me. You might procreate and tell your offspring that murder is ok if the victim has not found your god. You don't think that's a threat? What if I taught my children that all Christians should be murdered because the flying spagetthi monster said it was ok because they deny his noodly appendage (look it up)? Wouldn't you consider that threatening.
btw, I support abortion as a last resort to protect the mother or to avoid raising more hateful murdering Christians. |
|
Wow !!! I hope they have your "cage" locked tightly.I'm afraid people like me would be hunted down and torn apart out of sheer hatred.You really do sound like a madman,literally.Are you so disturbed that you can't have a civil conversation with someone with whom you disagree? All the name-calling !
In your last paragraph,you said I might be beyond redemption.For your information,I have already BEEN redeemed !!My "specific" God did it.
I also did not say you were morally bankrupt.Those are your words.Appropo? You really do need to calm down.I certainly am no threat to you.Just seeing what you will come up with next.Being "simple-minded",I like seeing how far you will go to prove that you are in some ways "disturbed".
What excuse do liberals today give now that they are murdering hundreds of babies daily ?
I'll bet you don't have a problem with that,do you? Jews AND Gentiles. |
|
You're lucky there isn't a hell because anyone who could state that since the bible says the Jews deserved it for denying your specific god and that this is morally ok is in serious trouble.
And don't try to backtrack. 10 posts ago you stated you believe in god and this gives you strength. Then you state that Jews were allowed to be persecuted for not believing in your god.
That's moral acceptance and is exactly why you must have a gaping hole in your "soul." You lay awake worshiping a demon.
If you truly believe that god allowed the Jews to be persecuted and you still worship god instead of cursing his name you might be beyond redemption. Luckily I don't believe in god so I can see your moral relevance and read the real statement behind what you said: That the Jews deserved to be persecuted because they believe differently than you do. You do not weep for their dead babies or raped women or mutilated men. You cheer them. |
|
And I use that ironically. So let me get this straight:
- For 2000 thousand years Good Christian Godly men rape, pillage and destroy Jews, many of them children barely older than 5.
- They rape and pillage across Eurpe and invade the middle east under the flag of the cross and engage in the sickest bloodiest form of torture and murder. Generations of Jew and Muslims are wiped out and displaced as Good Christians from Europe cleanse the land.
And this is because the Jews and Christians didn't believe in your god? This is the basis of your faith? And you have the unmitigated gall to call me morally bankrupt! ARE YOU KIDDING ME? At least I have the courage to state that genocide is evil! You state its only evil if god doesn't allow it.
That is the most disturbing thing I think I've read in years. Let's state that this is true:
- god allowed the Jews to be persecuted because they disobeyed god,
- You worship this god.
You don't believe in god you simply fear retribution! How are you different than an abused wife who continues to stay with an abusive husband? How can you see this as an acceptable arrangement?
I've said it before and i'll say it again: if the Christian God did exist we should hate and defile him.
You actually whitewash the persecuters of Jews (and all "lesser religions") and excuse their murder because god said it was a good idea?
I guess rape victims deserve it too, huh? After all, look what they were wearing! If that girl didn't wear high heels she wouldn't have gotten raped. If that Jew hadn't worm a yarmukle he wouldn't have been burned at the stake. Its his fault!
|
|
It would really interest me how you arrived at the place you are now.I never conversed with anyone so bereft of ANY semblance of feeling for your fellowman.You seem to know so much,so I know you are very learned.I think I am,also.We just come from and arrive at a different place.My knowledge has come from experience and age.I do enjoy your posts,even as you call me naive (stupid)and foolish.
I was aware that the Jews were persecuted before Hitler,but the Bible(sorry)tells me it was because they disobeyed God and did not stay in His favor.He allowed the to be persecuted until they came back to trust Him. |
|
I'm sorry about your husband. If it makes you feel better to believe he's in a better place good for you. That doesn't make it true. Your pain and desire for closure does not negate reality, no matter what your pastor tells you. Accepting reality, that he's dead and that's a human tragedy, is hard. But its still reality. What does it say about people's mental health when they need to make up stories about heaven and god and fluffy bunnies to avoid the cold hard truth? There is no god, no magic, no Easter bunny and no Santa Claus. I guess some people can be intellectually honest and unhappy or deluded and happy. If you're the latter, that's great for you, but it still makes you as unhnged as the person in the insane asylum who talks to the wall. You're mental illness is just socially encouraged.
And the Jews were being persecuted by the Christians in Europe for about 1900 years before Hitler. Germany is a Christian nation. Do you think the Nazi's all came from Mars? They came from German church's and German schools and German religiosity. Did Hitler kill all 6 million alone? Nope, he needed your good western Christian nation Germany to do that.
Silly theologians, logic is for rational people! |
|
|
Christ had no part in exterminating the Jews.The mad FASCIST Adolph Hitler did that. |
|
|
I said I would not answer another of your posts,but just one more,please.I have often heard said "there are no atheists in foxholes".I know it makes you angry and you have no patience for anything that even suggests that there is a God who is watching over you. Whether you believe in him or not, he believes in you.Read this carefuly,if you will,then you can throw something at your computer,if you wish.He knows the end from the beginning.He knew you before you were formed.You may get into your Pontiac to go out for dinner tonight and step in front of a car and die.If that happened to you,where will you spend eternity? If it happened to me,I know where I would go.I would be reunited with my son,who died in an industrial explosion seven years ago this March thirteenth.Also,my husband who died of lung cancer fifteen years ago.Please think about this and reconsider and if you have to say something harsh to me,go ahead and do it.But you will remember this letter. |
|
Cite please? A real scientific cite, thanks, not a peudo-scientific journal or a study that shows that prayer can have a positive psychosomatic effect.
Really tinkerbell, if you wish hard enough and long enough, you can fly!
Prayer to your god, Rowly's god or the sun god are all met with the same 50% effectiveness. At least we have empiracal evidence of the sun.
Christ changed the world. So did plastic (and to a much more powerful and overall beneficial degree). You can see plastic. Doesn't it make sense to pray to plastic?
Christ changed the world. So did the car. The engine makes me get places. Christ makes fun storytime and keeps borderline psychos from killing everyone (scary man in the sky say bad!). If I'm going to worship anything I'll worship my Pontiac thank you very much. Nobody ever exterminated the Jews over a broken taillight (unless Jesus told them too of course). |
|
|
But So-o-o-o much fun.... |
|
This is just another Kosroid here to provoke....
Ignore, flag, and it will go away...
MELLLTTTTIIIINNNNGGGGGG!!!!! |
|
|
You assume so much and know so little about what and who I am.It is amusing to see just how far you will go to castigate me.You are revealing so much about yourself.If I wanted to insult you as you have tried to insult me,I would say you are a raving(or raging)maniac.I do NOT say that,though.I just think you are a poor,misguided soul who despises anyone who believes in anything good.You must be miserable in your non-belief.To be so educated and so wrong about what you have learned.I always heard about educated fools,but never came in contact with one...until now. |
|
|
get your keeper to unlock the chains and go out and meet some human Christians. Your POV is severely twisted. Christ already changed the world, you blind fool. For someone named Readabook you are really ignorant. Meditation is directed at the Self. Again, you're woefully lacking in knowledge. Prayer is powerful. You have never tried it so how would you know? Please shut up until you have had some experience. You're only hurting yourself. |
|
Rowly, you seem like a decent enough bloke. If you really need your fantasies to alleviate the horrible reality that is human existence and it keeps you from snapping and shooting up the post office, that's great. But it doesn't make your belief in mass delusion any more real than Jews beliefs in God, Muslims in Allah, Buddhists in transendentalism, ancient Egyptians in the mystical power of cats, the Vikings belief in the Norse gods, the Ancient Greeks belief in Zeus, cavemens belief in the fire god or my aunt's insistance that Tom Cruise is a cyborg.
I got news for both of ya: Every Christian is an Atheist. You all emphatically deny the existance of every god and mystical being in the pantheon of human history for Apollo to Zeus (inside joke for history buffs). You do this with good reason: All of them are fake fairytales that evolved through folklore and legend. Denying their existance is realizing the truth based on all evidence and rational thought. You should be commended. The rest of just go that one teeny step furthur and add your personal pet fairytale to the list.
Now who's irrational? The Christian that doesn't believe in 99% of fairytales or the atheist who doesn't believe in 100% of them? tick tick tick tock |
|
|
It is clear this is a hurting person.To have a religous background and speak as he does,is odd.I am not senile,damned, (sentimental,sometimes)wise,occasionally.However,my beliefs are not childish things or mysticisms to put away.I am already "with age".I think they not only dislike Deists,but has an actual hatred for anyone who believes differently.I was happy to amuse them.Their amusement is probably very limited. |
|
|
Don't you know where American education started? How about modern science? How about modern civilization? The marketplace? So much for dumb Christians. Dumb people talk about things about which they know little. I'm trying to figure out what Christian did this to you. They certainly are not Christian. We'll just have to pray for you. You have a severe form of Tourettes and need healing. We can only plant the seed and move on. So, I'll just say that you have to humble yourself first, confess your sins (yes, pride is the worst one), and ask for forgiveness and help from Jesus. You'll feel great afterwards and then, with some pastoral care and guidance, you'll finally understand scripture. It takes a while so don't be afraid or discouraged. Your life will be much better. The insanity will vanish. |
|
|
The last refuge of the damned, Rowly. So senility and sentimentality is the basis for your mysticism? Perhaps it is you who will try to realize that with age comes real wisdom, and when you are no longer a child you put away childish things. I don't dislike theists, nor do i feel bad for them. I'm really just bemused. |
|
|
We are worlds apart.I cannot match your college background and won't try.I think it is evident that you are an agnostic at best and an atheist at worse.Thet is certainly your decision.I will not answer another of your posts,but remember,Ben Franklin was probably a genius when he was young and penned some of his papers.However,it is clear that he thought differently as he got older and wiser.Maybe you will do the same. |
|
Nobody is saying that these men weren't all nominally Christian. They did Christian things, went to church, had prayer, etc. But they were emphatic about creating a SECULAR nation.
If you don't have the barest of intelligence to realize the difference I really feel bad for you. Open your eyes. |
|
do you really beleive that?
The "audacity" of the Founders was not that man was the end-all and be-all, but that some divine power was the sole source of human liberty and man-made governments were secondary to that power.
Seriously? Talk about wishful thinking. The founding of the US was the most anti-christian thing ever done by Europeans since the death of Jesus up to that point. A nation founded on democracy (modified, of course) without an official state religion? In which all of the power lay with the people and their man-made government?
Revisionist history sets the Founding Fathers as bible-thumping Christians who were set out to find a Christian nation. Reality is that these men founded the most un-Christian, un-Jewish, Un-religious form of government the world had ever known. They were thinkers and questioners. They looked at religion through the lens of 18th century rational thought and found it admirable but ultimately fantastical. They were deists, colonial equivalets of modern day atheists who lived in a world so ingrained in irrational religious dogma that they dared not speak the ultimate truth: there is no god, but Christianity is a nice set of teachings. |
|
|
|
Quoting ReadABook:
"The dirty secret amongst conservatives is that the Founding Fathers were, for their day, heretical pseudo-atheists who had the audacity to believe that man was smart enough to create a system of government based on rational humanistc rule of law rather than Dark-Age religious hysteria and arguments from authority."
What, exactly is a "heretical pseudo-atheist"? That description makes no sense to me. Please explain.
The "audacity" of the Founders was not that man was the end-all and be-all, but that some divine power was the sole source of human liberty and man-made governments were secondary to that power. |
|
Deists typically reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God does not interfere with human life and the laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. - Wikipedia
That's as best an explanation as I've ever read, and I went to a Unitarian college after a mixed Catholic/Jewish upbringing. The dirty secret amongst conservatives is that the Founding Fathers were, for their day, heretical pseudo-atheists who had the audacity to believe that man was smart enough to create a system of government based on rational humanistc rule of law rather than Dark-Age religious hysteria and arguments from authority. If alive today, they would be aghast at the southern protestant "reformation" of American civil life into a bonafide Jesus orgy of religious fidelity and constant contest to our dogmatic one another. |
|
"As to Jesus of Nazareth... I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble....["
For 18th century America, my god, that is downright scandalous. If I remember the quote correctly he actually praised Jesus' teachings and morals in the same quote. Bravo and bully and of course besides the point. Like I've said before, the Founding Fathers might have beleived in God and leeches. We've realized they were rather silly about one, what is your obsession with the other? All kids stop believing in all manners of fairytales and make-believe except this one. Its truly fascinating. |
|
I think we are on the same wavelength, that the result of this ruling is not a liberal result, nor is it a good result,but I agree, those justices who ruled in favor of it have traditionally been referred to as liberal.
I would argue that they are not liberal, however, as they played a big roll in corporatizing our Congress through their decisions on lobbyists donations, corporate personhood and anti-consumer decisions preventing recourse for citizens harmed by corporations. They are not economic liberals.
I would also be interested to see how the Supreme Court would rule on this with Roberts and Alito there, considering some of the decisions they have made since they have been there.
|
|
"I believe in one God: the Creator of the Universe.That He governs it by His Providence.That He ougt to be worshipped.The Soul is immortal and will be treated with justice in another life,respecting it's conduct in this"...Benjamin Franklin,age 82, writing to the president of Yale University..Can you think of another semi-atheistic founding father?Let me know.
You are entitled to your own opinion,but not your own facts... |
|
... with ALL conservatives.
I think we can all agree the US was founded upon traditional Judeo-Christian values by generally Judeo-Christian men.
BUT, the Founders NEVER intended that America be a solely "Christian" nation or that one religion be favored over another.
The Founders wanted America to be a nation that acknowledged Divine Power as the sole source of human liberties. Beyond that, they did NOT intend to require or encourage Americans to choose one deity over another. Nor did they want the federal govt to require or encourage belief in ANY diety.
The Founders realized there is a fine line between the federal govt honoring the source of liberty (a Creator) and promoting one belief system over another.
|
|
Do you know personally ANYBODY like the person you described.....?
No..
You are the single most hate filled person I have ever encountered. You are far more likely to blow a gasket than any Christian I know...
You really should get some help.... |
|
The slave-owning murderers of yore? The vindictive terrorists of today? The ones on Townhall that openly pray for their god to smite to their enemies? The Crusaders? The leaders of the Inquisition? Quick, point me to the mythical "true" Christian who is oh so good and oh so holy. How about that Christian in the corner who laughs with glee when a doctor who performs abortions is murdered? Should I ask the one on the ledge shooting MLK? Or the Klan member who is also a True Christian?
I'm going to preempt all your BS responses. yes, Atheists and Muslims commit atrocities. Humans are all stripes, good and bad. Being Christian is no more an assurance a person is good than being blonde, liking Life cereal over Cherrios, or hearing voices that tell them to take a dump on the salad bar at Wendy's. Before you get that through your sick bigoted skulls you can go back to your fantasy competition about who pleases the mythical volcano gods more.
Conservaties are cowards without the intellectual cajones to admit they believe in fairytales. |
|
|
|
"the hits I've taken in my life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuEDkqVvpkk
|
|
|
I know it passed 5-4. Of course I don't support it,but the LIBERALS voted in the majority.It is one of the most dangerous rulings to come down in a long time.Another valuable freedom lost. |
|
|
|
|
|
I assumed you were taking the talking point stance that rightwing talk show hosts do. They do suggest this is a liberal thing implying the government steals property from private citizens similar to what communists do, but conveniently leave out that they turn it over to corporations to put things like for-profit shopping malls or industrial complexes in the place of peoples' homes.
Do I understand that you are in favor of imminent domain then? If so, I would be interested in your reasoning for supporting it. |
|
|
Why don't you read up on Christianity, raca? Talk to some Christians in person. Talk to some Jews in person. Learn what we're about. Then you can make intelligent comments. Right now you're a blind running idiot. Monkeys can read. They just can't comprehend what's on the page. |
|
|
You said imminent domain was not a "liberal thing".I never said it was.I said the liberals on the Supreme court voted to do away with it. |
|
A lot of talk here about folks want. Whether it's right or wrong, the fact remains that there seem to be more RINOs/moderate GOPers right not than hard righters. If the case were otherwise we would have had Hunter, Tancredo, or Romney. As it stands the only two GOPers left are McCain and Huckabee - the most moderate candidates in the party.
On the Dem side you have to admit that most indies and a good number of GOPers are abandoning the party and are voting in the Dem primaries. In every state where competing primaries are being held, the Dems are outdrawing the GOP primaries by nearly 2 to 1. Even in traditional red states.
What does this mean for conservatism? And what does this say about the "will of the people." IMHO this nation is going down the tubes. The young are being led astray and America has lost it's moral compass. We will be swamped in November. It is time to brush up on your Omega Code, because I believe the end times are here!!!! |
|
|
please elaborate on what you mean by implying I am not thinking. |
|
Who was it who said"I think;therefore I am?"
Some people "AM',but forget to think. |
|
The entire society was "religious." And a lot of what they wrote questions the existence of god (Franklin went so far as to actually put pen to paper and doubt his divinity. For those times, that's practically declaring oneself an atheist!) They also were pretty sure leeches cured disease, does that mean you include them in your medicine cabinet.
Serious, "that's what Americans want?" You polled all of us? Here's a quick civics lesson: if 99 citizens want you to cut your hair and you refuse, shoud you be forced to do it? By your logic, yes.
You people are the gayest group I have ever seen, and I've been to some pretty out there places. You are so terrified of homosexuals you check your bed every night before going to sleep. The funny part is that there is a part of each of you that wants a big strong gay man to be lurking down there...
tonyb,
The Soviet Union called, it said if you find a time machine and want to go to a country where individual freedom of expression and state mandated education and societal norms are enforced you're welcome home comrade.
Conservaties are pussies. |
|
... REALLY want to put their man in the WH, they need to switch their party affiliation in the remaining primaries and vote for Hillary. If Obama wins this, it is all over for John McCain.
I admit, McCain would be slightly better for America than Obama. But good luck convicing the electorate of that.
McCain's best chances (or ANY Rep candidate) have always been in a contest against Hillary. |
|
|
If the founding fathers were deist, then the trip to America must have "sobered them up".Almost EVERYTHING they wrote,as I said,mentions God and Biblical principals. Too bad we have strayed from that. However,it is a FREE country.You can do and say almost anything and not be punished for it.However,it will not make you any more intelligent,as your letter proves many times over. |
|
|
Poor lilly...doen't have a clue.As a response to all your arguements.....because thats what americans want duh.We do not want gay lifestyle taught in classrooms.We do not want God taken out of everything.We do want english as our national language.We do want borders secured and no amnesty.We do not want more welfare and higher taxes.If you disagree with this,then France is calling you home. |
|
|
|
that live in America should be afforded habeus corpus, but as we have found out, this administraion doesn't think American citizens have that right. Ask Hose Padilla.
The notion of imminent domain is not a liberal thing. It is about a fascist government confiscating personal property to turn it over to corporate developers. |
|
that live in America should be afforded habeus corpus, but as we have seen, this is not guaranteed under this administration anymore. Ask Hose Padilla.
Imminent domain is not a liberal thing. This ruling allows a fascist government to confiscate personal property and hand it over to corporate developers. |
|
|
I believe the LIBERAL justices on the Supreme Court did away with imminent domain (a stupid ruling. Are non-Americans who are in combat on the battlefield against our troops supposed to be allowed "habeus corpus'in our courts? When did that start? Just asking..... |
|
I do not disagree that the Clinton dynasty is about control over representation. Slick Willy was responsible for some of the most punitive increases in penalties for crimes during his administration.
I also agree that Hillary's intent to force you to shell out hard earned cash to buy a for-profit health insurance plan does nothing other create even more of a windfall than these scam agencies have been allowed to get away with ever since Nixon thought for-profit healthcare was a good idea, though we are the only industrialized nation that does this to their people.
We are the only nation in which the most common cause of bankruptcy is medical bills. Of those that went bankrupt due to medical bills, 7 out of 10 had a for-profit insurance plan at the onset of their illness or injury.
The solution is not to force financially strapped Americans to buy for-profit health insurance, but to remove the things that make our healthcare cost twice as much as other nations while only ranking 38th in the world in quality of care.
To say Republicans do not pass legislation intended to control us in some way is ludicrous. Lilly covered several control issues. Maybe you have noticed the Republicans have also passed legislation that allows the authorities to ransack your home without a warrant and spy on you illegaly. The whole notion of an authoritarian president that ignores our constitution and other branches of our government also flies in the face The People determining their own fate, not to mention legislation that allows corporations to walk all over you. |
|
Two sides of the same biased coin. The Founding Father's were mostly deist anyway. In the late 1700's that was pretty much as close to atheist as you could get without being shot on sight. This nation was the first to be founded in a specific fashion so as to AVOID becoming a totalitarian quasi-religious monarchy, yes conservatives wet themselves today over the prospect.
If this nation was founded on "biblical principles" why can I wear clothing woven from two different types of threads? How come I can work on the Sabbath? How come I can say "god damn" and not be killed? Oh I see, this nation was founded on the "biblical principles" you like today and not all the ugly silly ones you don't follow. Pretty convenient deal! How'd you manage that? Oh yeah, you made the whole thing up! sweet...
This nation was founded by radical land-owning men who sought freedom from a dictatorial capricious ruler from thousands of miles away. 200+ years later you people are trying to make this nation subservient to a dictatorial capricious ruler who is so far away he likely doesn't exist except in your own deluded minds.
Pussies. |
|
|
I never said this was a "Christian Nation." I said it was based on "Biblical" principles and referenced God and the Bible.There IS a difference.Your predjudices are showing. |
|
Too bad Americans aren't given the chance much to see this side of Hillary. The Rightwing Noise machine has effectively shown her as vitriolic and unlikeable - whereas, this moment shows just how eloquent, intelligent and warm the candidate really is.
It's SUCH a surprise to know that all the gutter-sniping coming out of the likes of Dick (check out his MO on prostitutes and their toes) Morris might ACTUALLY be false. |
|
Switzerland has three official languages. Government clerks must be proficient in at least two. (My source of that information is another poster.) Is Switzerland less efficient than India? Or the United States?
Re prayer: anyone is free to pray quietly and privately at any time---how would other people even know he is praying? Unless, of course, he wishes to make a show of it, which often is done to make a political point. For example, about two years ago someone knelt down to pray in the middle of a busy intersection and refused to move. When he was arrested for impeding the flow of traffic, he had (of course) the media handy to photograph his arrest for praying. The right-wing media then exploited this event as an attack on religion.
For ten years I taught in a high school where a moment of silence was observed each morning as a part of the PA-broadcast "Morning Announcements". I can tell you from this experience that most students used the time to nap. The second the announcements came on, down went the heads onto the desks for a five-minute snooze. Some of the kids were very religious and I don't doubt that they prayed all day long. People who really want to pray don't need permission and they don't need to make a show of it. |
|
of the right to life? That's a non-religious way of saying babies shouldn't be killed. People in comas shouldn't have the plug pulled by their husbands who want to marry someone else. If he was decent he would have let her parents have her.
Homosexual practicioners have the same right to marry as normal Americans. |
|
|
Re the Alabama ruling to exclude books by homosexual authors or with a homosexual character: please understand that this ruling is not limited to access by children. It bans such books from public libraries (which are used by adults) and from any learning institution that is publicly funded. This includes the state university, where a 20 year-old student majoring in English or a 26 year-old student getting a Master's or PhD in English may not be assigned any number of important works of literature. Since Shakespeare's sexual orientation is much debated by scholars, an Alabama legislator was asked if Shakespeare's works would now be prohibited. That legislator responded, "We might have to tone them down". |
|
God is one thing, and a "Christian nation" is another. You fundamentalist-thinking types seem to think that not wanting Jesus Christ on the dollar bill means we are atheists. Not so. There is a great deal of the civilized world that does not accept Jesus Christ as God. When you declare that the United States is a Christian nation, you make them into second-class citizens.
So many of these discussions come down to conservatives wanting to be recognized a superior and in control of everybody else. White Christian males will be in control. Everybody else is welcome to live in the United States as long as they keep to their place and don't get uppity. As a townhall poster wrote a few weeks ago, defending Mitt Romney, "a rich white guy is SUPPOSED to be president---that's the way it is". |
|
|
I certainly understand the abortion issue, but Shiavo took place only because the parents refused to accept the judgement of the medical profession, whose judgment was then confirmed by the autopsy. She was blind, could not have been responding to her parents, and had only automatic functions driven by the lower brain remaining. She was indeed a vegtable, which is why, once the autopsy report was written, the case evaporated. Yes, she should have had a living will, but in the end, in such cases, what difference would that have made? The issue, ironically, was driven by medical technology, not life or death. A few decades ago she would never have been kept in that state she was in, and no one would have argued or even debated it. They would have accepted death as is the case with all of us. The issue that no one seems willing to resolve, is not what is death - it's what is life? The Schiavo's become issues only because we have not made this decision, after all. And because we have not, we have a placed an unreasonable burden on the medical profession and on families. Extraordinary procedures have the possibility of extending life. But what's the point? Should we operate ion the cases of brain cancer, whose removal can extend life by six months? is that life, or sadly and badly misplaced hope? |
|
Rowly,
I will give you two (2)
1. The writ of habeas corpus was done away with.
2. Eminent domain. |
|
|
|
I was not able to see the debate. I went to CNN.com to hear others' opinions. One of the comments was very interesting. I've cut/pasted it below. Any thoughts?
Sonya February 21st, 2008 9:54 pm ET
Her ending was eloquent…too bad it was a lie. Clinton claims that she sat there watching the wounded warriors walk down the red carpet at the opening at the Center for the Intrepid. She is lying. I was at the opening for the Center for the Intrepid and witnessed Hillary Clinton and her entourage pull up 15 minutes late, well after the wounded soldiers had been seated and the ceremony had begun. It was rude and showed how little she cared for the audience that day. |
|
|
You have a gentle way of saying what most conservatives believe.However,I have no patience with liberal thinking.As I said,they want to take us where we do not want to go.They are like the schoolyard bully.They want to make the rules and force the rest of us to obey them.I just want to "live and let live".They want us to live as they tell us to live,like it or not. |
|
BTW, I totally disagree about the Alabama ruling - I am against censorship. I do think it is permissible to have books with a sexual content in a restricted section so that parents can choose whether or not their kids can access them, just like parents should be able to choose whether or not kids can watch sexual TV shows, etc.
Re. the Christian nature of our nation - historically, most Americnas were Christians, so that is reflected in many symbols, etc., in public buildings, etc. Instead of removing all religious symbols from the public square, why not be more inclusive? Stick a Menorah next to the Nativity Scene, let the Muslims put up a Ramadan display and the Hindus a Diwali display and so on. I think it's more interesting and ALIVE to have a diversity of religions, cultures and so on given a place than to try to meld everything into a secularist, colorless, meaningless blob. |
|
4) Re. school prayer - I have a newspaper article in which a girl was suspended for saying a quiet prayer (grace) before eating in the cafeteria. To me, this is a freedom of speech and freedom of religion thing - First Amendment. Children should be able to pray in school. Children should also be free NOT to pray in school. BTW, this kind of issue is why many conservatives would like to see more school choice - those of us who are Christian (or Buddhist or Hindu or Jewish) and who want our kids to have formal prayer, etc., in a classroom setting should be able to send their kids to schools that allow that, while atheists, secularists, etc., should be able to send their kids to schools of their choice. In this area, Republicans are much more free choice than Dems.
Re. English - I am for free speech, so I have no problem with people speaking whatever language they like. However, to be practical - my parents came here from India, and in India, there are 13 main languages and over 200 dialects, but they have two official languages - Hindi and English. There are two reasons for this, which also apply to the US - it would be too expensive and inefficient for the government to support documents, etc., in every language, and by having one or two languages which EVERYONE speaks, in addition to the particular language of their ancestors, the country is more unified. In the US, which is a land of immigrants, the latter is even more important.
|
|
Thanks,R.E.L....
Think we got a lib there.Huh? |
|
You make some good points, but:
1) Abortion - pro-life and pro-choice people have a basic philosophic difference. Pro-life people believe it is a baby, and therefore they are trying to prevent a person from being murdered. Murder is against the law in this country, even when it restricts the freedom of the murderer. Pro-choice people, however, believe it is a fetus, and therefore it is not murder to them but a removal of cells. Pro-life people would never stop a woman from removing a wart, and pro-choice people would not excuse murder. The problem is not that either side is unreasonable - they are both reasonable given their philosophy.
2) Gay marriage - for some people, they don't want a redefinition of a term that has meant something specific for thousands of years. Many of these people would be ok with a form of civil union. The problem would not occur if marriage was a civil right, since we cannot deny gays civil rights. However, the government has routinely restricted marriage since the founding of this country - hence blood tests, etc. In the interim, gay people can pay a few hundred dollars and have legal documents drawn up giving their partner power of attorney, rights of inheritance, etc. They can also have a ceremony in front of their friends and family and call themselves married. The government can't stop this.
3) Re. the Terry Schiavo case - again, this comes down to a philosophic difference. For many, it is still murder to remove a feeding tube from someone in a vegetative state. Since Terri could not request either the removal of the tube nor it's being left in, who was best qualified to make the call? Since death is permanent, would it be better to err on the side of life, in the absence of a living will? This is a very good reason to make sure you have a living will!
|
|
Our founding fathers would never in their wildest dreams have fathomed a man marrying a man or a woman marrying a woman.If fact,even now,most of us decent,moral citizens still can't.
Our forefathers left England to escape from English Common Law.Read the Constitution and their writings. Almost EVERY paper written mentions God and references the Bible.Liberal Democrats and their liberal judges have changed theis great nation into something they would not recognize.If they did,they would hang their heads in shame.Oh yes,I forgot ,there is no shame in ANYTHING today.Not even so-called"gay marriage",abortion,and all the other "new laws"that have so debased the country. |
|
|
American law is based on English Common Law, not the Bible. And, trust me on this, our Founding Fathers didn't even mention gay marriage. |
|
Lilly,lilly,lilly....All the things you cited were"The law of the land" since this country came into being, before liberal Democrats changed them.We just want them back where they were.Morality should count for something,shouldn't it?
I bet you don't think the founding fathers who made our laws were following Biblical principals,do you? O-h-h-h,I just touched a nerve,didn't I? |
|
Do you not understand that the fervor behind Obama is coming from the millions who believe that the Bush administration has already gone a good ways down the road toward destroying our country? And that a McCain presidency will be Bush II Scene II, continuing Bush policies? McCain has flip-flopped on every single issue in order to to pander to the far right. He has stood firm on nothing. Even after being so firm against torture, for years, he has now waffled even on that.
Quite a lot of us believe in an America that does not use secret prisons, hold prisoners without habeas corpus, try prisoners in ad hoc military tribunals where the object of the trial is conviction, or use torture. We do not believe that our international treaties should be violated or that the president should break laws right and left and then say that's OK fine because he's the president. We do not believe in pre-emptive war against a country that never attacked us. We believe in the rule of law. And we respect our government---we don't see government as an evil to be destroyed. If you find all of this confusing, look up "patriot" in the dictionary. Go Obama.
|
|
|
If McCain would just commit to securing the boarders, north and south, for the sake of National Security, I would be more inclined to vote willingly instead of grudgingly.I think concervatives want to be loyal to the Rebublican party. I don't know about all of you, I just hate to feel so ashamed of the candidate I'm stuck with voting for! |
|
|
Rowly, Republicans don't want to make rules for the rest of us? How about abortion? How about gay marriage? How about Tom DeLay calling the Congress back to Washington on a Sunday night during Congressional recess so they could intervene in the Terri Schiavo case? How about school prayer? How about the many moves to establish the United States as a Christian nation? Or as a nation that permits only the English language to be spoken or used in commercial signage or government paperwork? How about Republicans in Alabama ruling to remove from public libraries all books written by a homosexual or having a homosexual character? |
|
Virginia Patriot
I understand what you are saying about John McCain being on the wrong side sometimes with McCain/Feingold legistation. But with to many issues that need to be attended to it is important we do not elect either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton because it would destroy Our Country and possibility even could make our country be at risk for years too come. I really think John McCain really cares for America and will protect it and do the right thing in the end for the country. I hope you understand that too much to risk to not be involved. |
|
|
I said "Republican",not R.I.N.O..McCain has co-sponsored several bills with Democrats.That is the reason he is so disliked(hated)by so many "real" Republicans.He doesn't count.... |
|
|
I noticed Hillary tap-danced around the super delegate question. She wants their vote even if the voters don't want her. The Clintons have always changed the rules for themselves when it is convenient. It will be grossly unfair for her to be able to count the votes in Fla. in Mich. when she agreed along with her fellow Democrats not to count them. It won't go over very well at all if she tries to pull that stunt. I think the next debate should pull out that question again and have her give a definitive answer. |
|
|
|
|
Obama will win the dem. nomination but he will lose the general election. |
|
|
This is what is scary about these people.They think they know what is best for the rest of us.I,for one,do not care to be led to slaughter by the likes of either of these socialists.Democrats continually make rules and laws for the rest of us to obey.You cannot truthfully say that about Republicans.If you can think of one,let me know.But be truthful.I will admit it if you do. |
|
did some guy named Simon offer to help her up the hill?
How liberal of her to step aside for a black man. heeheehee |
|
Hillary is still singing the "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" tune, not realizing it could be her swan song. Obama is too.
The only issue I have ever seen 75-80% of Americans agree on is stopping illegal aliens. Any GOP candidate that is credible on this issue could win in a landslide.
The biggest problem is the RNC has sold it's soul to the cheap labor express. They are determined to nominate an amnesty candidate, even if it means losing the election. Stupid Party, indeed.
|
|
|
|