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Saturday, October 11, 2008
Thoughts On An Obama-Pelosi-Reid Government
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at 9:28 AM
From The Atlantic's Ross Douhat and Volokh's Ilya Somin.  (HT:  Election 2008).

Douhat:

And the convergence of an economic crisis and complete Democratic control of Washington should alarm even those conservatives eager to wash their hands of the GOP. The best reason for even the most disaffected right-winger to root for a McCain victory is simple: To the extent that much of the progressive agenda is a program in search of a crisis to justify its implementation, an election that delivers a liberal candidate who's adored by the media to White House, gives him huge majorities in both houses of Congress, and presents him with a worldwide state of emergency in which to govern, has the potential to be not just another loss for conservatives, but a once-in-a-generation defeat.

Somin:

We know from past history that economic crises are a major opportunity for expansion of government power. Robert Higgs' book Crisis and Leviathan is a good discussion of the basic dynamics. We also know that divided government tends to impede the growth of the state, while united government facilitates it. The combination of united government and a major economic crisis is likely to lead to a great expansion of government, just as it did on several previous occasions such as the 1930s. It only remains to add that Obama - and most of the rest of the Democratic Party - tend to be very pro-government ideologically. As far as I can tell, Obama proposes major expansions of government regulation and spending on almost every big domestic issue, and doesn't propose to retract government in any significant way, except on military intervention in Iraq. Obama's record in the Senate (where he was the 10th most liberal senator) and in the Illinois state legislature (where he was more liberal than 73% of his fellow Democrats) shows him to be a big government liberal, not a relative moderate like Bill Clinton during his presidency.




View in ascending order View in descending order
Briggsy writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 9:50 AM
You didn't seem to mind at all
when Cheney-Bush seized all this power they have to fight a global war on terror. In fact, that was just fine with you. Quite necessary, you insisted.

And the Cheney-Bush power grab went very nicely together with a hands-off, anything-goes-for-a-buck Republican credo which virtually shut down consumer and environmental protection and allowed big business to rape our nation.

An Obama government would seem to be the reverse of all that. About time, don't you think? The pendulum needs to swing the other way. It's almost as though you are trying to repeal the laws of nature.
Virginia Patriot writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:05 AM
Too Bad The RNC Had To Have Amnesty
McCain was the candidate because the RNC did not want amnesty on the table this election.

I will not vote for amnesty.

No amount of scaremongering will work.
jtb-in-texas writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:07 AM
Some people think Bush/Cheney were
Conservatives... Bzzzt! Wrong. Next...

Others think the US Constitution and Capitalism are all that is wrong with the world today... Bzzt! Wrong. Next...

May I recommend everyone reread Romans 1:18-32?

LLR writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:07 AM
Obama Government
An Obama government is tainted with an Ayers mentality.
I will choose not to vote for Ayers in this election.
Why do you keep on about the War on terror!
Where were you on 9/11 when we were being attacked?

I want a Real Man in office!
I don't want a Girlie Man running my Country!

Nobody likes War you fool.
Nor does any true patriot want our country attacked by people Obama thinks so highly of.

If you think because an Obama in office will stop the hatred from other countries you are sadly mistaken and you are spreading false hope to Americans.
Get off the Blog you big DOPE

You can have your Robin Hood.
We want a real man who believes every American deserves to keep what he earns.
Virginia Patriot writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:08 AM
Too Bad The RNC Had To Have Amnesty
McCain is the candidate because the RNC wanted amnesty off the table this election.

No amount of scaremongering will get me to vote for amnesty.

Stupid Party Indeed.
K.G. writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:14 AM
Oh, Get Off It, You Two
The root of the chaos is not unregulated Darwinian capitalism run amok. That's just your stupid socialist meme.

I own a business and we are hamstrung with regs.

It's the nanny state run amok. The problem can be laid right at the feet of the people who will benefit from chaos: Saul Alinsky-ites promising to solve problems with more government power.

Community activists like Barack forcing banks to make the NINJA loans, including 5 million illegals, who got loans w/o SS#. Lawyers like Barack bringing suit against banks who refused to make the loans.

Politicians like Barack (Maxine/Barnie/Chris) insisting that Freddie&Fanny were sound. The Black Caucus extorted their fellow Congressmen into the "affordable housing mission."

If corrupt businessmen took advantage of the $$ rolling into Wall St. from DC, well, a pox on their house too.

But pleeeeeze, recall that Bush tried to reign them in, McCain tried for more oversight. It was the Dems with the help of a few RINOs that killed their attempts.

Please recall that Franklin Raines (no Pub) got off with 10's of millions by cooking the books.

An Obama government would just exacerbate the problem. Tax the engine that could get the economy back on its feet? Grow the nanny state? Create an even greater dependent underclass?

Are you people insane?

Dan  writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:17 AM
White Salamander
I had written a few days ago that if you want a truly conservative party you need to look no further than the existing Constitution Party (Baldwin/Castle). I had put my support behind McCain however, since he was the last hope to stop Big Zero. Now with the latest Palin fiasco, Big O's election is a fait accompli. Back to Baldwin...

With Barack this country faces a further departure from the principles of the constitution of small government and self reliance.
Spudder writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:19 AM
Put Carter in
You may as well include the Georgia goober dimwit president Carter, he left the country in a shamble doesn't he remember that? or his brain warped from to much Billy Beer.
biPOLar writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:50 AM
To the salamander
I think you are wrong. Hewitt DOES get it. He knows that George Bush just moved this country in the direction of socialism and he knows that Obama is winning.... BIG TIME.... and he knows that the Ayers stuff can't work when the economy is melting down.

But he is absolutely committed to electing the guy who he said was a great american but a lousy senator. He is absoloutely commited to electing John McCain... AND SO... he will say what he thinks he needs to say.

He always does.

You know what I think? I think in Hugh's secret heart of hearts, he really likes liberals. I bet he thinks liberals are swell guys. Bet he'll never say it though. Just like he'll never say McCain is losing. Just like he will never say that Bush is the biggest socialist to occupy the white house..... ever.

Yep Hewitt gets it. He just doesn't say he gets it.
auldsailor362 writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:57 AM
Since I Love
A good "conspiricy theory" let me throw this out for much smarter people to chew on.
1. Is it just possible that the failure of Freddy and Fanny were planned by Dodd/Frank et al. I find it strange that only a week or so prior Frank had said everything was fine "looking forward".
2. Is it just coincidence that, on the Monday the Market took a massive drop, and before the market closed, that Harry Reid made his "I know of a major insurance company which is going to fail" comment which caused large drops in MetLife, Pru and two others, which many if not all mutual funds carry because of their stability? Of course the next day, when asked he said (through a spokesman) that "he really didn't know of any".
In the meantime we small taxpayers took a bath and it isn't over yet. A bill that started in an unbelieveably dumb 3 pages grew to over 100 in the House and over 400 in the Senate and picked up enough christmas ornaments to light the Mall.
As I said, conspiricy theories are wonderful
james beam writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:59 AM
the problem is
we think if we elect a conservitive president all is well. if we want fundamental change in the direction of our country .we are going to have to start at the very bottom ,electing conservitives to the pta ,city council, mayor ,county commisioner state reps ect... and yank them out of office when they start to stray . we need term limits as well ,this will insure that politicians must follow the party platform in order to get anything done. we al;so need to be vigilant of our party officers and hold them acountable
The TruthMeister writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:10 AM
Socialist Agenda Clear - Get Activate!
Obama activates his supporters and it works!
Start an email campaign NOW:

Obama campaign denied Obama's membership in the socialist New Party. But in FACT he was a member when he was injected into senatorial race. His socialist agenda is clear. Search in Googles history archives now available: http://www.google.com/search2001.html
Enter "Barack Obama" "The New Party"
You'll find plenty DIRECTLY FROM THE NEW PARTY RECORDS THEMSELVES that prove it. These are facts that are NOT being reported and ARE TRUE as you can determine for yourself.

BTW - Don't forget to check out what comes up in the history archives about ACORN, New Party, 'Project Vote!', DSA members Pelosi and Frank and so much more wonderful news about the socialist agenda of our fine congress. All we need is the socialist president to close the deal. Please search search search while the history archives are available. Trust me you find the same data in current indexes that have been scrubbed clean! AND THEN SPREAD THE WORD: see townhall blog called 'Activated!' for an email template to copy and begin your own email campaign to spread the word FAST- especially to well intentioned Obama supporters who believe he is moderate.

Get Activated!
Pasadena Phil writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:22 AM
GOP better find a candidate fast!
Whose fault is it that the GOP nominated a Trojan Horse Democrat? The noseholders' argument that the only alternative to Obama is better is like Bush/Congress arguing that they had no choice than to pass the Marxist bailout bill because it was the only solution on the table. Wrong! You DON'T have to make the problem worse! Either come up with a real alternative or shut up!
Elderscapes writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:22 AM
So THAT's what it would be like ....
This morning on FOX, Obama's wimpy spokesperson was being asked to claify Obama's changed statements on Ayers/ACORN ..... Wimpy babbled and stammered and POOF --- the connection went down. (a technical error, I'm sure -- hahaha)

I wondered then if "that" would be what a (god forbid) Obama admin would be like ....

Poof.

Pasadena Phil writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:41 AM
On regulation
It seems that very few people understand the differences between proper regulation, intrusive regulation and just plain bureaucracy.

Proper regulation creates efficient markets. The absence of regulation guarantees a free-for-all that would would eliminate most players. All games need rules or very few will play.

Unregulated or poorly regulated markets are not as efficient as properly regulated markets. It is what keeps the game fair. What Dems and Reps alike arguing over is some vague notion that all regulation is bad or that all problems are due to insufficient regulation. Excessive bureaucracy is the result of regulating to achieve political mandates that are better achieved in some other venue.

We don't need thermometers to tell us it is hot or cold. Thermometers are useless without standard calibrations that tell us EXACTLY how how or cold it is in a way that we all understand. The government has already done it's job by setting the standards and assuring users that all thermometers are compliant. It is not useful for the government to address complaints about the weather by rigging thermometers to read 78 when the temperature is 120. The same thing with markets.

Both parties see the government as the solution. The problem is not over-regulation but too much government intrusion and the unfairness of bad regulation and refusal to enforce the rules uniformly.
Cuban Pete writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:44 AM
The Prophet's Words will come true...
..."God Dam* America" will be the mantra of the ruling class when the Demon Rats led by B. Hussein "Osama" (in NY ballots) Obama assume the reins of power. Their minion thugs are already salivating at the prospect of some "payback" against their political opponents.

A counter prayer is offered, "God Bless America!" Please deliver us from these depraved, tyrannical politicians.
clarityseeker writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:49 AM
Barack Obama on video campaigning for...
..the SOCIALIST candidate for Senate seat in Vermont, Bernie Sanders in August 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIlIpOkRh2A

Yep, no wonder the Socialist party has been asking Barack to re-up his membership in the, "Chicago New Party", an offshoot of the, "Dem. Socialists of America".
Pasadena Phil writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:59 AM
This will restore confidence in markets?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aDjJYM SphyM0&refer=home

A key reason why markets are falling is a lack of investor confidence that our markets are fair. Accoounting rules are no longer standardized, regulations are haphazard and unenforced, government mandates galore...

Now, our government, having messed everything up with runaway deficit spending, is committed to solving the problem by multiplying the scale of runaway deficit spending while cranking up the fog machine.

"Fannie and Freddie began notifying bond traders last week that each company needs to buy $20 billion a month in mostly subprime, Alt-A and non-performing prime mortgage securities, according to the people, who asked not to be identified because the PLANS ARE CONFIDENTIAL. The purchases would be separate from the U.S. Treasury's $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program." (Emphasis is mine).

Someone please explain to me exactly what it is about that "Black Muslin Marxist" that is so scary? Bush and Congress have already converted our economy into the Hugo Chavez Economic Plan. How much worse can Obama be?

Do we believe in free market capitalism or not? If we do, let's use it to get out of this mess. LESS GOVERNMENT!
ScarletPimpernel writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:59 AM
Never fear, folks
Hugh Hewitt said on his show on Wednesday(?) that all is well. It is not the end of the world if Obama wins. The Democrats will just be in charge for a while, that's all.

And yesterday, McCain his own self said that Barack is a fine and decent man and that Americans should not fear him being President.

See? Your Republican Leaders agree that it will be okay.

So, stop wetting yourselves and let's work on the next election to put cons in charge for a change.
Dread writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:03 PM
Too late
[We know from past history that economic crises are a major opportunity for expansion of government power.]

Given the nationalization of various private industries and the massive 700+ billion dollar handout, it's really tough for me to imagine that things would be that much worse if a Democrat were in charge of the White House as opposed to its current occupant, who is leading the charge to expand government at every 'crisis' be it economic or otherwise.

In short, sorry, Hugh. The current occupant has jaded me to the idea that Republicans are ANY better than Democrats when it comes to liberty and the size of the state.

It doesn't help that you've been cheering on Bush in every instance of government expansion when it came to keeping us safe from the terrorists, but suddenly have an objection about the Feds trying to keep us all safe from economic collapse.
Pasadena Phil writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:07 PM
McCain's $350B bailout
My previous comment linked to a new and incremental government spending mandate that is in addition to the $830B Paulson bailout to which McCain plans on adding another $300B homeowners "resurgence" bailout (ask him what that means if you really want to see a pained and confused expression).

Vote Bob Barr! We need an alternative to the Marxist one-party system and holding your noses to vote for the supposedly "lesser of two evils" is not going to solve anything. You DO have a choice. You are surrounded with scary animals but you choose to obsess on only one: Obama. Expand you field of view to include the rest of the herd. Did you notice that they are all holding hands with the people who are screwing us? Each other? What exactly ARE you afraid of? You might want to look in the mirror.
Earlrogers writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:17 PM
A story to read, then heed
A young man once akded his college professor if
he knew how to catch wild pigs. The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man replied that it was not a joke. See, you catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming.
When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in The last side. The pigs, who are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat, you slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.'

Pasadena Phil writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:17 PM
Virginia Patriot, is that true?
Are you really a bigot? You're not one of those small-minded people who believe that borders should be enforced are you? I'll bet you your house has a fence around it too! Lock your doors? Man, you are a lost cause. Just what is it about people that makes you want to lock them out of your life?

Here in CA, we take a much more relaxed view on such things. That is why things are going so well here while the rest of the country tanks. Illegality is actually a good thing if we can just open our minds and drop our racist attitudes.
Earlrogers writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:18 PM
Story to heed Pt 2
The young man then told the professor thatis exactly what he sees happening to America . The government keeps pushing us toward socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, free housing, getting below market home loans, tax credits for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc.. While they continually lose their freedoms -- just a little at a time.

One should always remember: There is no such thing as a free lunch! Also, a politician will never provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it yourself.

If you see that all of this "wonderful government 'help" is a problem confronting the future of democracy in America ,you might want to send this on to your friends. On the other hand, if you believe this "free ride" is essential to your way of life, "then you are the problem" and should probably delete this email. But only God can help you when the gate slams shut!

In this 'very important' election year, listen closely to what the candidates are promising you!
Just maybe you will be able to tell who is about to slam the gate on you....and America.

A government big enough to give you everything you want,is big enough to take away everything you have.

Thomas Jefferson
Pasadena Phil writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:20 PM
Earlrogers
The problem with your analogy lies in its flawless logic. All you are going to do is make the noseholders flail even more. This is a fact-free zone where common sense and logic are not allowed.
Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:26 PM
Lonny Continue to Berate People of Faith
A couple points of contention:

First, Brooks is a neo conservative along with Bill Kristol, and a lot of the blue bloods like John Warner and others. They may well be elitists or at least they think they are. Their opinions of the true conservatives are similar to yours and other liberals. Both groups are believers in big government.

Secondly the Muslims who flew planes into the WTC weren't fundamentalists they radicals who were perverting their religion’s teachings. I am wondering if you use “Fundy” perhaps because you don’t know how to spell fundamentalist. It’s not too hard, just sound it out. Fundamentalist Christians don’t hate anyone but I guess in order to know that you would have to have some faith in addition to your perceived intellectual prowess.

You folks on the left could not be any farther out of phase with reality. Mr. Bush is not a conservative nor is John McCain. However, when faced with McCain or a socialist like the most merciful with potentially a majority in Congress…no thanks. East Germany, Romania, and the USSR all failed. We don’t need idiots running the greatest country in the history of the world.

Hopefully, the RICO investigation into Acorn and its ties to the most merciful and others in the Chicago political machine strikes gold. Currently Resko’s sentencing is October 28 coinciding with the messiah’s media buys on two of the three hack networks. Hmmm, I wonder if Resko will roll over on the most merciful in exchange for leniency. Inquiring minds want to know.
Earlrogers writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:30 PM
Well, PasadenaPhil
I have to keep trying to make them see the light even though it probably is a lost cause. I just don't want this country run by the likes of Socialist'Markist thinking rulers such as Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Frank and Barack Obama, who would destroy is as we know it. I just have to keep up the fight as long as I'm able.
ScarletPimpernel writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:38 PM
Hey Whitey
What's your problem, bro? Or rather, Que es tu problema, hermano? Why do illegal Mexicans get a pass from you? I guess you're for lowering pay scales for Americans, eh? You are deliberately confusing racism with law enforcement. We don't hate Mexicans. Anyone who comes here legally is welcome. If you cannot argue convincingly for lawbreaking, you should just be quiet.

I guess HUD is a liar too? http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/10/09 /calling-old-media-five-million-illegals-have-illegal-mortg ages-u

btw- props for knowing about Tulip Mania.

The TruthMeister writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:43 PM
Stop Complaining and Get Activated NOW!
Start email campaigns NOW about FACTS that are not getting reported:

Obama campaign denied Obama's membership in the socialist New Party. But in FACT he was a member when he was injected into senatorial race. His socialist agenda is NOW clear. Please Search in Googles history archives now available: http://www.google.com/search2001.html
Enter "Barack Obama" "The New Party"
You'll find plenty DIRECTLY FROM THE NEW PARTY RECORDS THEMSELVES that verify Barack Obama's MEMBERSHIP with the New Party. Who cares? Obama supporters who think he is moderate!

Please search search search while the history archives are available. Trust me you will find the same data in current indexes have been scrubbed clean!

AND SPREAD THE WORD!! See Townhall.com blog called 'Activated!' for an email template to copy and begin your own email campaign to spread the word FAST- especially to well intentioned Obama supporters who believe he is moderate.

BTW - Don't forget to check out what comes up about ACORN, New Party, Project Vote, DSA members Pelosi and Frank and so much more wonderful news about the socialist agenda of our fine congress. All we need now is the socialist president to close the deal.

Get Activated!
ScarletPimpernel writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 12:43 PM
hey Whitey
I posted my previous comment before I read your dumbest comment yet. Phil doesn't own the country, you idiot. The people elected representatives who proposed laws which we helped shape to decide who gets to come into the country. What are you, fourteen?

Take a break from berating fine Americans and look up Mexico's immigration policy, chico.

Besides, apparently Mexicans don't want to live next to Mexicans either...

Jerry writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 1:00 PM
Thomas Jefferson has a sobering thought
for us:

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

--Thomas Jefferson

You want to see abuse of power and assault on the constitution: Obama/Pelosi/Reed and the Acorn Thugs that Obama will bring into his admin.
The TruthMeister writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 1:00 PM
Here is the link to get the word now NOW


http://activated.blogtownhall.com/
ScarletPimpernel writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 1:05 PM
gee Lonny
Glad to know you're not obsessed with Christianity like those bible quoters, eh?
scott writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 1:22 PM
scarlet...

You're absolutely right - it's not the end of
the world, the apocalypse, holocaust,
or the great depression 2.0.

Republicans have a lot of work to do... 2010 will
be here before you know it. election cycles
and incumbancies swing both ways.

Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 1:30 PM
Good Call Scarlet!
Ola Blanco Salamandra

In case that link was not operational for you. Here is the 411 jefe!

There’s a little thing going on in current events. Maybe you have seen some of it in the newsflashes during the cartoon hour. It is called the sub-prime mortgage crisis which has singlehandedly affected the stock market negatively by about 45%.

FIVE MILLION mortgages given to illegal aliens are now in foreclosure. They used bogus social security numbers and even with the no income and no job they still qualified for loans thanks to Acorn, Chris Dodd, My Boy Lollipop, and other Democrats. Maybe all you people squawking about your 401K and your portfolio can now understand that capitalism is not the root cause of the problem. Unfortunately for you and your homies, unchecked liberalism and their insatiable desire for power, is the cause of the meltdown. The purpose of providing “affordable housing” was not some altruistic act of benevolence. It was being used as another means of ensnaring the people who could not legitimately qualify for a mortgage. Now let’s reflect on the effect on these people whom the leftists allegedly tried to help. Their credit is ruined for the foreseeable future. By virtue of their limited means, they would need access to installment loans for large ticket items like cars, appliances, or maybe college loans.
I don’t care about the illegals that may be affected. They shouldn’t be here anyway. My concern is for Americans who are working poor looking to improve their lives and were tricked, coerced, or seduced by the easy money/credit to over extend themselves. I think most of them were ignorant of the ramifications. You almost have to be a lawyer to understand the loan paperwork and if the borrowers didn’t have legal representation and signed on the dotted line, the mortgage broker got his
.
Now, this is all gone thanks to you precious, big hearted, leftists. Nice work!

Party First – Country Last
Sherry writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 1:37 PM
.To the A.S.S.K.I.Ckers
A suggestion for the Adults Supporting Socialist-minded Kids in College.

Please sit down with your kids and discuss with them the ramifications of voting for Obama. Tell them what it will be like financially if you are the owner of a small business. Explain the tax policy of Obama and let them know in no uncertain terms that there will be a shortage of money. A discussion of ideology probably won't cut the mustard with them. Emphasize to them that by casting their pie-in-the-sky vote for their favorite friend on MySpace there will be trouble ahead - financially. More than likely the buzz has worn off with most of these young adults and on election day, they may or may not show up. But err on the side of caution. I recognize that they are adults and will do as they want, but a little reality check may not hurt. Explain the other side of the coin to them-literally. In the end it may not be a bad conversation and you may be able to make an impact.
Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 1:44 PM
You can't round them up - You're right!
You can fine the arses off of any employer knowing using illegals in their work force. 20% of their gross sales ought to help persuade those employing illegal aliens. Once implemented that will dry up the job market; with no work available they will be forced to return to their third world toilet.

Put the National Guard on the border armed to the teeth with heavy machine guns, Abrams, Bradleys, Cobra’s, Humvees and gunships. The rules of engagement if fired upon return fire and shoot to kill.
Pasadena Phil writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 1:45 PM
White Salamander
You are an incoherent socialist/anarchist. You "never agreed" to the laws of the land? You only obey laws you agree with? Wages are low because of "corporate greed"? What does that make you?

Well you just might get your wish after the Bush/Pelosi/Frank/Dodd/Reid/Kennedy/McCain/Obama Marxist crowd is done reorganizing how our economy works. A lot of you dopes are going to learn the hard way that free markets create more wealth and freedom than centralized Marxist economies.

Now crawl back under your rock. This is not a conversation.
Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 1:57 PM
Blanco Salamandra
The Department of Housing and Urban Development declined to discuss whether 5 million illegal immigrants held mortgages.

HUD is covering their backside big time. I don't blame all of corporate America any more than I do all of any group of the acts of a few...even stupid liberals…with the exception of stupid liberal government officials. They are the real villains in this whole mess. If they hadn’t engaged in this scam to trap the working poor in this “affordable housing” scam, and Fannie/Freddie hadn’t cooked the books, the mortgage vermin could not have pulled it off.
Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 2:17 PM
Blanco Salamandra
Mexico is a police state no quasi to it. I have traveled there a number of times. The people are hard working and wonderful for the most part and I certainly don’t fault them for wanting to come here. However, Mexico is fast becoming what Columbia was when Escobar was still above ground. Their government is more corrupt than New Jersey’s or Illinois’. Mexico is truly a land of the haves and have-nots.

In addition to the poor people that don’t want to stay in that sh_t hole and are trying to get into the states any way they can, the gang bangers, and the big drug cartels are trying to get into the United States as well. This is why protection of the border is so critical to our sovereignty.

It would be nice to go into Mexico like Iraq and set up a democratic government there ridding their country of all the bad arses as well. If they had a democratic government they wouldn’t need to come to the United States to be able to better themselves. I would actually be in favor of trading the idiots on the left with Mexico for the illegals that want to come to the United States. They would certainly appreciate our country more than the cretin left.
miss vicky writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 2:31 PM
'Os bad offer to give illegals D.license
The misguided Obama speaks with fork tongue and would probably deny that during the Primary race he agreed to allow illegals to have a drivers license. The next debate should focus on this?
Imagine, if 'O' wins, the legislative, executive and perhaps judicial branch all liberal? On top of that, a President Obama, the most liberal Senator and third most liberal VP Biden, where is the balance etc,. Absolute power corrupts and our politicians are corrupt enough! God help America, Ex Democrat
Ana Mus writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 2:54 PM
Obama and his Democratic
Party are nothing more than the New Party which is a socialist party. No one in msm wants to pay attention to the REAL Obama and once Obama and his thugs take over whatever is left of any semblance of "media" who do you suppose they will blame? Why the conservatives of course.
http://therealbarackobama.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/loudon- how-socialist-was-obamas-new-party/#comment-3866

KG writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 3:10 PM
Minn., Wisc., Pa. booing
What burns me is that in the last 2 days, with excited GOP-conserv crowds ready for McCain to tear into BHO for ACORN, Ayers, socialist pacifistic ideas, infanticide, he instead says, don't be scared of BHO; he's a good family man and will make a good Prez. That is not what I want to hear from our candidate when Rezko, Ayers, Acorn et al plus the fact that as CIC, BHO would be a disaster, is never uttered by our guy. kg is correct. BTW, I am kgk, not kg though the title says it, it is wrong. kg, defends our democratic capitalistic system as I do. BHO is a pure socialist and the WAPO asks yesterday, is this the end of capitalism? With BHO, it might be. And note, no one even brings up Islamofascism which will face the new Prez. Are the voters nuts putting this naif in charge? The answer seems to be a resounding YES.
Virginia Patriot writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 4:13 PM
KGK
McCain doesn't seem to want to win. His whole campaign has been half measures.
Secure the borders first, then amnesty.
Drill offshore, but not in ANWR.
Bailout the greedy and the stupid, O.K. he went all the way with that one.

Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 5:50 PM
Buck Up Republicans Stay Positive!
There is no way that there are enough stupid people to put him over the top. Hopefully, Nader will take some of the kook fringe vote away. I also think there are a significant amount of people that may not want to appear bigoted or get a tongue lashing when the polling people call. I also think that there will be some addition dirt to come up regarding the most merciful. With Rezko’s sentencing coming on October 28th, I am hopeful that he rolls over on the messiah with his Acorn shenanigans among other nefarious activities that a significant amount of voters haven’t hear yet.
LLR writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 6:56 PM
Lonny
Lonny, if you are going to point out a pointless mute subject about Palin, why doesn't it bother you that Obama paid 800,000 to ACORN! Out of money for his Campaign which is Illegal, You less than dimwit, spread all the dirt, not just the dirt you want people to see!!
I would give Sarah 100,000 thousand if she were out there doing the work of God if I had it, at least she would be doing something that is worthy! She is a Great Woman! And she will always be a great Woman, do you know why? Because she has GOD in her life! That is way and beyond what your Obama has! He has absolutely NOTHING!
And your Use Of FUNDY, NeoCON are all stupid words, they fit your intelligence which is ZERO!
dudley writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 7:01 PM
Magua
You couldn't be more wrong. The USA exploits Mexican labor; that's why there is an immigration problem. People from every country, if they possibly can, go where jobs are. Work for pay. Mexicans are no exception.

Plus, Magua, what a dufus you are. Stupid people don't vote. You'll find out
Julie writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 7:10 PM
Lonny
That is ridiculous. It in no way violates any law for a State Governor to use funds to speak to the citizens of that state, regardless of their religion.

However, I do think it was unethical, if not unlawful, for Senator Obama to attempt to influence foreign officials, using federal funds, for his own political reasons. Especially since his actions were in direct opposition to those of his acting Commander in Chief!
Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 7:19 PM
Dud
You're voting for the messiah...right? I rest my case.
Miguel  writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 7:50 PM
keep the senate
Pray that there are at least 42 Repub senators after November 4th.........
dudley writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 8:04 PM
Magua
Barack and Joe. Yep. Rest my case
Diane writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 8:14 PM
Man, the leftard trolls are out in force
Don't youse guys have anything better to do on a gorgeous autumn day? Guess not! I forgot that sunlight and fresh air were poison to y'all, LOL. OK, then, crawl back under your rocks, and you'll be safe.

Meanwhile, jbt in Texas asks: "Are you people insane?" Well, duhhh, jbt! If they weren't, would they be Democrats? ;-)
cottoneyed writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 8:17 PM
Is it possible that Barry Soetoro, or
Barack Obama, or Barry Obama, or Barack Hussein Obama, or Barack Hussein Soetoro Obama, is it possible that none of these guys is even a U.S. citizen? September 29, of this year, U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick ordered Obama, or whatever his name is, to produce a birth certificate. His attorney's failed in their attempt to have the case dismissed. As of today, October 11, Mr. Soetoro has failed to produce the document. Democrat Philip Berg, filed the case, claiming Obama is not a U.S. citizen, and therefore, not eligible to be POTUS. If Mr. Berg is full of hooey, then come on, Barry, produce your birth certificate, and lets be done with this nonsense, right! Never mind that your paternal grandmother in Kenya says, that she was at the hospital, when you were born, IN KENYA! Throw her under that bus, too, Barack, just produce that birth certificate, and prove her to be a "typical black person"! Barry, this ain't going away, a U.S. District Judge has ORDERED you to produce a birth certificate, legal shenanigans aside, you got to produce one, bro. So make us proud, show us that your a true blue, red blooded American, boy. You are one, aren't cha'?
Julie writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 8:24 PM
Diane
I'm with you, gal. I WAS out on this beautiful day, campaigning for my candidate for an open state senate seat. But, allergies got the best of me.

I have noticed that there are more comments from liberals on Town Hall this weekend than normal...on some threads they are just talking to each other!

So, it's nice to hear from another conservative!

Diane writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 8:28 PM
Magua, thank you!!!!!
I am SOOOO sick of this online conservative defeatism. I do not see it here "on the ground" in Real Life, where McCain/Palin yard signs keep sprouting like daisies all over the place. Americans are scared to death of Obama--and getting scareder by the minute, as more of the truth comes out, despite the MSM's best efforts to stifle it.

Everyone knows the RV polls are garbage, yet they're being factored into the poll averages. Do NOT believe the MSM lies!! This is far, far from over.

My state, NC, is supposedly "in play," but I sure in heck don't see it, leastwise where I live. Only leftwing hippies and African-Americans are in the tank for Obama hereabouts -- and neither group comprises anything close to a majority.

In the immortal words of the late great John Paul II, "Be not afraid!" It's time to fight, y'all, not cave. Enough with these gloomy predictions of an Obama-Marxist regime. Pray and work for the defeat of the False Messiah!!!!
dudley writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 8:31 PM
Diane
you're a newbie. Stick around..glad to have ya.
Diane writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 8:35 PM
Julie, way to go!!
My husband suffers from allergies, so I hear ya! Ragweed and leaf mold are the worst. Thanks for fighting the good fight despite it all!!!
Diane writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 8:54 PM
Thanks, Dudley ;-)
Newbie or not, I know Americans won't vote for a Marxist. :D
NeoConScum writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 9:11 PM
Diane...Me & The Missus Are going To
your state in the western section near Franklin next Friday for a few days R & R amongst the North Carolina Fall colors. We're driving up from Central Florida. Looking forward to a change of scenery, those bumpy things I miss(So.Californian)called mountains and a state I've never seen before. My Great Grandfather(Mom's Mom's Dad)was a North Carolinian who fought in a NC Brigade of Longstreet's Corp in Lee's Army in all their Campaigns. He moved to Northern Arkansas after the war and that Ozark country was where My Mother hailed from.

Well, look'it me go on...!
Julie writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 9:35 PM
Thanks Diane!
Here in Missouri, we're giving it our best. Never been to NC, but I hear it's beautiful.

All we have to do now is keep it up. There's no reason McCain/Palin can't win.

Have you noticed that our opponents have left for other sites? Seems they g
Virginia Patriot writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 9:55 PM
Neo
You have to find time to check out the waterfalls near there. Whitewater Falls, Bridal Veil Falls, Dry Falls are just east on U.S. 64. Just outside the town of Highland is Sunset Rock, wonderful view. Highly recommended. I love that area, have vacationed there a couple of times.
Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:00 PM
Hey Cotton,
The messiah's mother was an American. Doesn't that make him an American regardless of where he was born? I think McBipartisan was born in the Panama Canal Zone.

I could be wrong, I think we need a lawyer or Poly Sci major.
Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:08 PM
Diane-Thanks for the kind words
My wife's best friend from school (SC born and raised) married a Canadian guy originally from Poland both think the most merciful is the bomb...and they hate Sarah Palin. They think that because of Trig she should be home with him.

I don't understand the attraction if you look beyond the oratory skills. The content of what he says is nothing. I just don't understand, but I think you are right beyond the homies and the hippies, NC is pretty conservative. Where I live in SC we are even more so.
Virginia Patriot writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:21 PM
Magua
Can you please explain Sen. Lindsay Graham if SC is so conservative? Because he's almost as mavericky as McCain. SC had an opportunity to replace him in the primary.
NeroDavola writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:50 PM
No worse than complete GOP control
Most of the last eight MISERABLE years have been under GOP control in the Executive and Legislative branches - you can't get any worse than that. This fearmongering by douchbaget and the other nut is just that: fearmongering.
NeroDavola writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 10:55 PM
BTW, under bush/Gooper control
We had a BIGGER government, remember? Patriot Act? Gigantic deficit and spending? Illegal wars and illegal wire tapping? (for which, we've found out just yesterday, the troops' have been spied on while talking intimately to their loved ones at home!)

Your party HAS BEEN A NIGHTMARE. Now it is time for change and it will be unprecedaeted just how few GOP thugs will remain in office.
Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:02 PM
Virginia Patriot
I cannot and wish I could! I have written several nasty letters to the editor about little Lindsay. When he was in the House he was one of the House managers involving the Unibanger's impeachment. In 2000 he was McBipartisan's valet keeping the suits pressed and wiping the spittle from McCain's mouth after the 2000 SC primary.

He is an embarrassment to conservatives in SC and one of the radio guys calls him little Lindsay lapdog.
Magua writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:04 PM
Nero
I hear you and your peeps say that the last 8 years were horrible. What has been so bad about this period of time?
Julie writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:20 PM
Magua,
All Nero has to say is that Bush was in the Presidency. He forgets that Pelosi was in charge of the Senate.
NeoConScum writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:26 PM
Senator Pelosi...??
Julie, get some rest. :-)
Hawkman writes: Saturday, October, 11, 2008 11:33 PM
Cleaning our own house
It seems to me that when the conservatives don't heed to the values that we Hold..we kick em out of office....however!!...why is Rangel, jefferson, dodd, frank, pelosi, reed, shumer and the rest of the dems still in office...
you preach tolerence- but slam the conservative with that you don't believe in.

I am indeed going to hold on too my guns and religion. if you try and take them away. you will be sorry!

Give me Liberty. or Give me death!
Don't tread on me
We have met the enemy, and they are our's.
NeroDavola writes: Sunday, October, 12, 2008 12:21 AM
Magua, Pt. 2
Bush has undermined the troops healthcare, protective gear and allowed war profiteering without a moment's remorse. His cronies have made millions shortchanging our troops in battle, privatizing formerly regulated government programs like FEMA and allowed the foxes to run the chicken coops in government offices like the FCC, EPA and FDA.

We are less safe than before the war started and Bush, the GOP-controlled Congress and McCain have done nothing to change that. Our environmental concerns remain grievously untended. The energy crisis has been allowed to bloom because of big oil cronyism in the WH. And our elections are being stolen - not by ACORN or CRI, meant to register the poorest voters who are otherwise intimidated to not vote (a GOP trick) - but by GOP dirty tricks where millions are disenfranchised by caging techniques, purging voter rolls and intimidation.

Bush disregarded warnings of pending attacks before 9/11 and direct links to the men who were training IN OUR COUNTRY in the lead up to the attacks. He disregarded dire warnings of Hurricane Katrina and allowed a landmark city to die. Americans make LESS today than they did 8 years ago. Unemployment has risen, and while worker productivity has grown, pay scales have dipped.

Bush did not unify the country - it is more divided than ever. He brought with him the dirty politics of Rove and the DoJ scandal that is STILL unresolved due to "above the law" antics from our leadership. Unaccountability is at an all time high. GOP corruption and sex scandals are at an all-time high. And THAT's just the tip of the iceberg.

Depressing



Magua writes: Sunday, October, 12, 2008 9:33 AM
Nero Indeed it is Depressing Part 1
These rantings are nothing short of lunacy. WHERE IN GOD’S NAME DO YOU GET YOUR NEWS?

These assertions you make are not only wrong in most cases you couldn’t be more wrong. I will try to address in the same order. I am planning on trying to document with actual facts instead of partisan opinion or tales from the kook side in an attempt to sway your completely incorrect opinions so it will take more than one 2000 character post. I will try to finish this before leaving for church. They tell me they have some new rattlesnakes for today’s service.

Except in short selling on the market how does anyone EVER make money by shortchanging and I assume you mean in equipment, our troops in battle. Every company with whom I have ever worked when you ask how’s business fine but could always use more. I sold electronic components to a company that manufactured laser guided weapons and they were booming.

Privatization is not a bad thing. Look at the inherent inefficiencies of government. Let’s compare and contrast: the Social Security Administration verses Fidelity Investments. I have just had dealings with the SSA. You cannot speak with anyone live on the telephone. When you go to their office, it is a typical government run agency. Since there is little motivation to be expeditious, for the most part they are not. They have their jobs for as long as they want them so there is no incentive to provide excellent customer service. We have nowhere else to go. This is why there is hesitancy by the Democrats (primarily) in Congress to work with Mr. Bush on a partial privatization. If given a choice most people would not deal with the government unless it was mandatory. When I call Fidelity Investments I get an agent within a few minutes and usually right away. Their website is fabulous and allows me to make changes as I desire…you know FREEDOM.
Sherry writes: Sunday, October, 12, 2008 10:00 AM
Magua, save your breath
It is a waste of time and beneath your pay grade to respond to Nero - the Unabomber Wannabe - His manifestos are wacko, juvenile, and unintelligent.

I thought the rattlesnake bit was hilarious.

Have a good day.
Magua writes: Sunday, October, 12, 2008 10:04 AM
Nero Indeed it is Depressing Part 2
We are less safe…really? Bush disregarded warnings of 911. These are so wrong it is not laughable but very sad. If indeed there was anything other than “chatter”, there was no way to corroborate the intelligence because CIA, NSA, FBI were prevented as a result of the “wall” erected during the Clinton administration by none other than Fannie Mae’s Jamie Gorelick. We may never know how many plots have been thwarted since the inception of the patriot act and other anti terrorist actions.

Our environment regulations are among the most stringent in the world. All you have to do is look at all the different blends of gasoline to placate places like Chicago and CalEfornia. The energy crisis is due precisely to the environmentalists and their lackeys in Congress kowtowing to them with their refusal to allow more refining capacity, expansion of nuclear energy, offshore drilling, drilling in ANWR, and utilizing the oil shale reserves in Montana, Wyoming, and North Dakota.

ACORN’s problems started long before the Bush administration. There is no conspiracy except to ensure that the “poorest voters” vote only once.

Bush disregarded Katrina warnings. This is flat out Bravo Sierra. The president and the national weather service gave New Orleans three full days to get out of Dodge. Kathleen Blanco and Ray “school bus” Nagin are the ones who disregarded the warnings. Look at the hurricanes this season that hit Texas and Louisiana. What a difference a Republican (Jindal) can make.,,and this is the only difference. I didn’t see any looting there either. Hmm Bush lied, people died.

I will respond with further truths to upend you ridiculous and vapid argument after church.
------------- writes: Sunday, October, 12, 2008 10:25 AM
Obama's not qualified
Folks:

Mr. Berg has finally produced a movie on some of my research in why Obama is not qualified to be president at the following youtube at:

http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6_k3NtXZs

Sincerely,
Benton Bain
Magua writes: Sunday, October, 12, 2008 2:22 PM
Blanco Salamandra
They had more than a part. That's like saying a house of ill repute had a part in marital infidelity divorce settlement.
Magua writes: Sunday, October, 12, 2008 2:27 PM
Sherry Thanks
If we can persuade the leftists to think instead of feel they will be better for it.

Incidentally, nobody was bitten this morning...whew! :-D
Magua writes: Sunday, October, 12, 2008 4:37 PM
Nero Indeed it is Depressing Part 3
According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics wages have been rising since 2000 and productivity has improved. Unemployment has risen in the last few months. Unfortunately, this is tied to the economy in general and the sub-prime issue in particular. Construction jobs have fallen of tremendously as a result of the housing inventory problems directly related to the the sub-prime mortgage problem. If you look at the graph regarding unemployment claims, the rate started to creep up in the first quarter of 2007. The Democrats took over the House and the Senate in January 2007. Coincidence, I think not. You cannot treat business with disdain and think you can tax and tax and regulate and continue to believe that these people are going to just roll over and take it.

The corporate income tax rates table below shows the reason why companies are moving out of the United States. China’s current tax rates are half of the United States. The labor rates are less than a quarter and regulation is nearly nonexistent. If you were responsible to stockholders what would you do?

Taxable income over Not over Tax rate

$ 0 $ 50,000 15%
50,000 75,000 25%
75,000 100,000 34%
100,000 335,000 39%
335,000 10,000,000 34%
10,000,000 15,000,000 35%
15,000,000 18,333,333 38%
18,333,333 .......... 35%

When companies are moving out of the country faster than new jobs are being created you have stagnant job growth. When there is not a high quantity of jobs available there is less movement by employees between companies. Consequently, employers don’t have to be as concerned with their competitiveness in the job market. Lower the corporate tax rate and eliminate capital gains and watch out.
Magua writes: Sunday, October, 12, 2008 5:05 PM
Nero Indeed it is Depressing Part 4
You’re right Bush didn’t unify the country anywhere near like the Unibanger did…and he had the Propaganda Ministry on his side in those days. They have since turned on both of the Clintons. In fact that is how you are stuck with the most merciful…at least for the time being.

The Propaganda Ministry has done their level best to talk down the economy, create antiwar fervor like they did during Viet Nam, and portray Mr. Bush as a cowboy, fratboy, dumba_s, and various other hateful remarks. I disagreed with a number of his policies, although the War on Terror is not one. We need to stay on the offense bringing it to these 7th century barbarians until there aren’t any more or they realize that they don’t want any more.

There is no DOJ scandal as it is completely in the prevue of the president to fire any US attorney just like the Unibanger did…remember?

GOP corruption and sex scandals were a huge issue weren’t they? Mark Foley and this thing with Larry Craig are the only two things that immediately come to mind. Now let’s take a look at the Democrats under the same microscope: Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelick, and Jim Johnson all intimately involved financially and culpable in the failing of these two GSEs. My Boy Lollypop was bobbing for apples with one of the executives in Fannie. John Edwards is playing hide the pepperoni with some floozy while his wife is getting cancer treatment. William Jefferson still has his house seat at least until January. Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski, Juanita Broaddrick Eileen Wellstone, Elizabeth Ward Gracen, Regina Hopper Blakely, Kathleen Willey, Sandra Allen James, Kathy Bradshaw, Cristy Zercher, Paula Jones, Carolyn Moffet, Monica Lewinsky, Gennifer Flowers, Dolly Kyle Browning, Sally Perdue,
Betty Dalton, Denise Reeder, and nine other incidents where the names were protected.

Party First – Country Last

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stalkinghorse 10:48 PM
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
  By Bob Munck
NeoZIonist
 Re: And the Countdown Continues
  By Careful with that axe, Eugene
Riders on the Storm 10:45 PM
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
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No it won't, Bob
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
  By Riders on the Storm
Global Cooling, Global Warming...
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
  By stalkinghorse
K.G. 10:33 PM
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
  By Bob Munck
Bob
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
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mike 10:27 PM
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
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Not really, Mikey
 Re: Twenty lessons your teenage daughter will learn from the Twilight movies
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Sloan
 Re: 'This isn't the Britain we fought for,' say the 'unknown warriors' of WWII
  By Careful with that axe, Eugene
Riders on the Storm 10:21 PM
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
  By Bob Munck
For all the naysayers,
 Re: And the Countdown Continues
  By Tazzmax
BUSK WAS WRONG GRACE,
 Re: And the Countdown Continues
  By douglas
As I said before, once I see a...
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
  By K.G.
I have a great idea
 Re: And the Countdown Continues
  By Bill
munck
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
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Col Bat Guano 9:59 PM
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
  By Bob Munck
MUNCK
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
  By douglas
No, Bob, that doesn't answer
 Re: Only Global Warming Critics Can Save Climategate Scientists
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Bovine Flatulence?
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