Monday, October 01, 2007
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Marriage Gloom-and-Doomers Are "Divorced From Reality"
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Posted by:
Michael Medved at
9:07 PM
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For years, I’ve taken a lonely but outspoken stand against ubiquitous and, in fact, nearly universal lies about the state of marriage and the prevalence of divorce in the United States. In the past in this space I’ve used the authoritative Census Bureau figures to prove that the “50% divorce rate” that everyone loves to cite is, in fact, a pernicious myth: nearly 70% of first marriages manage to last until one of the partners dies.
On Saturday, I was pleased to see America’s “Journal of Record,” the New York Times, running a valuable column similarly decrying the current tendency to inflate and exaggerate the purported “collapse” of the institution of marriage. This column, by two professors of business and public policy at the prestigious Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, counts as especially significant because this same New York Times had previously run numerous articles by the shameless and agenda-driven Sam Roberts, who outrageously manipulates available data in order to prove his favorite point: that traditional marriage is finished in the USA and we need to get used to a brave new world of fresh romantic arrangements.
In any event, Professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers take on Roberts and all the other wedlock-is-dead advocates with their powerful, persuasive piece.
“The great myth about divorce is that marital breakup is an increasing threat to American families, with each generation finding their marriages less stable than those of their parents,” they write. “The story of ever-increasing divorce is a powerful narrative. It is also wrong. In fact, the divorce rate has been falling continuously over the past quarter-century, and is now at its lowest level since 1970. While marriage rates are also declining, those marriages that do occur are increasingly more stable. For instance, marriages that began in the 1990s were more likely to celebrate a 10th anniversary than those that started in the 1980s, which, in turn, were also more likely to last than marriages that began in the 1970s.”
Near the conclusion of their column, Stevenson and Wolfers cite specific numbers: “The narrative or rising divorce is also completely at odds with counts of divorce certificates, which show the divorce rate as having peaked at 22.8 divorces per 1,000 married couples in 1979 and to have fallen by 2005 to 16.7…. The facts are that divorce is down, and today’s marriages are more stable than they have been in decades.”
Given these figures, and the easily available and profoundly reassuring news about the persistent strength of the institution of marriage, how can we explain the widespread claim that traditional, life-long marriage is outdated and increasingly irrelevant?
The left promotes the lie in order to indicate that timeless family institutions no longer apply in the 21st Century, and we need new, experimental, exciting and “liberating” arrangements--- like living together without commitment, or single mother households, open multiple partner relationships, or gay marriage, or whatever. The right goes along with the claims about moral collapse because the bad news conforms to the gloomy, “we’ve-lost-America” temperament of too many conservatives, as well as confirming the (often ill-informed) nostalgia for the recent past.
Of course, people of conscience and foresight need to work to defend the institution of marriage and, yes, the traditional family faces multiple threats and challenges that ought to give us pause. But one hardly helps the cause of matrimony by going along with the dumb and dishonest idea that the battle to preserve it is already lost. The column in the New York Times bears the appropriate title: “Divorced From Reality.” Thoughtful conservatives can’t afford that sort of divorce—and need to fight and win our crucial battles within the parameters of the real world.
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Mike, I'm so glad you wrote about this and touched on it on your show (from time to time) as well. The MSM spout the 50% lie so often that they must be divorced from reality. |
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Not to defend the MSM but, in the interest of fairness, they probably look at the statistics that report 2 million marriages and 1 million divorces per year and draw the conclusion: 50%. I think it's more a matter of lazy reporting (reading some of the data but not bothering to ask an expert what it all means) than it is any deliberate attempt to lie. |
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king, I don't buy the lazy reporting stuff. The MSM have an agenda and they stick to it. |
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I love how Medved lumps all the "alternatives" to traditional marriage together: "living together without commitment, or single mother households, open multiple partner relationships, or gay marriage." Part of the reason marriage are lasting longer is that people ARE living together before deciding to get married. In some cases, this leads to marriages; in others, people realize that a marriage wouldn't work, and move on. This is very different than have multiple partners, and also very different than "gay marriage." And few women "choose" to become single mothers - would Medved rather they all get abortions? Why conflate all these "alternatives"? Because he needs to support his flimsy hypothesis: that there are no choices other than marriage or the one hand, and depraved experimentalistic hedonsim on the other.... |
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"Part of the reason marriage are lasting longer is that people ARE living together before deciding to get married."
False.
In at least one study, people who had shacked up had less than half odds of reaching a 15th anniversary. Those who had not had a 61% chance of seeing theirs, a 12% difference. It was one of the more predictive variables of marital stability in the study.
"In some cases, [shacking up] leads to marriages; in others, people realize that a marriage wouldn't work, and move on."
Which may be its only value. But the fact remains that shacking up does not improve marital success rates.
The worst cases are when the never married cohabit with children from previous conjugations. The children are more likely to be abused, physically and sexually by the non-parent, man or woman. The men are more likely to be attacked by their "mates". The women suffer more than anyone else by every measure, including financially and emotionally.
Next, and for all the same, but reduced, reasons, are those who were once married, who bring children into informal relationships. Then those who marry bringing children into informal "homes".
The one group with outside-the-current-marriage offspring who don't exhibit destructive behavior are the widowed-and-remarried, whether the spouse was also widowed or not. (Why has not been studied.)
Divorce is destructive, and we should do all we can to help newlyweds to prevent it. Shacking up is not a useful weapon in this fight.
Strong families do not need much government; weak ones do. That's why the state established schools--to weaken families.
Le == Please visit http://www.schoolandstate.org |
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"The right goes along with the claims about moral collapse because the bad news conforms to the gloomy, “we’ve-lost-America” temperament of too many conservatives, as well as confirming the (often ill-informed) nostalgia for the recent past."
And it's the part of conservatism that turns me off the most: This nostalgia for an imagined idyllic American past that never existed.
Back in the 1980s, Ben Wattenberg published a study, "The Good News is the Bad News is Wrong," in which he too demolished the Borkian myth that modern America had turned into a new Sodom and Gomorrah. He showed that historically, America (like any other country) was never "pure as the driven snow" when it came to sex, and that the vast majority of Americans today continued to be moral, happily married, God-fearing, law-abiding citizens even when compared with their ancestors.
We are definitely more sexually active today than our ancestors in early America were. Modern science and technology, from the contraceptive Pill to the Internet that enables porn to be instantly accessible in every home, is largely responsible for this. But social conservatives make a tremendous mistake by equating more sex with less morality.
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and slaverty wasn't all that bad either, eh? |
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Andsobut wrote: "And Medved doesn't have an agenda?"
Of course Medved has an agenda. I have an agenda. If you are honest you also will admit you have an agenda. Because everybody who writes has an agenda. The person with no agenda will not bother writing.
Mr Medved states his agenda in the last sentence of his article: "Thoughtful conservatives can’t afford that sort of divorce—and need to fight and win our crucial battles within the parameters of the real world." I think Mr. Medved's agenda, from other columns, is that traditional marriages need to be helped to become stronger, so that our children and society may be more healthy.
The question is in how I, or Mr Medved selects and presents the facts in support of his agenda.
His agenda, and mine when I speak on this issue, are that marriage and families need to be made stronger. Abandoning them because "half of them fail" will not solve the problems but will make them worse. If counselors and teachers will work to help those who are getting married to improve their relationships, or even to recognize a relationship which will most likely fail so they do not make a mistake with grave results, will help in this end. And we need accurate and truthful reporting of the statistics in order to do this. Sensationalism, whether from those whose agenda is to change marriage, or those who have a more "conservative" agenda will only hurt the cause of strengthening our marriages. |
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I don't know what "slaverty" is, but you're right; it SOUNDS awful! |
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"This nostalgia for an imagined idyllic American past that never existed."
Steeevuhl, you're technically right. It never existed in reality, but there was a time when disciplined sexual behavior was a societal IDEAL and expectation. At one time, in this country, the Biblical call to confine sex to the marriage relationship was the accepted norm by the mainstream majority.
It was considered normal and IDEAL for a girl to be a virgin on her wedding day. A young man who could control his sexual impulses before marriage was viewed as the IDEAL example. The "idyllic American past" to which you refer was the America in which Biblical standards and norms were equated by the majority with AMERICAN standards and norms.
And divorce was frowned on, stigmatized... and rare.
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The real question is: How many married couples are relly happy? I'd say at least 75% are unhappily married, and of the rest few are really happy. I know of one divorce attorney who will NEVER get married. The American woman has priced herself out of the market.Men are on a marriage strike, and I don't blame them. A bachelor: A man who hasn't made the same mistake once |
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Marriage is a commitment - a lifetime commitment - that many of us take quite seriously and quite literally. I'm not in this to experience happiness.
Thanks to my wife, however, happiness is a nice bonus!! I recommend marriage for EVERYONE who has the maturity and strength to make a commitment and stick to it. For everyone else, I recommend chastity and Christ - not necessarily in that order. |
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Ends in happiness.
With the exception of mental illness, 99% of marriages that last, become very happy :)
I have never met a long-time marriage where either spouse said the word "Unhappy" in describing their marriage. The marriages may have been rocky for many years. But in the end, happiness and purpose of life, have always won.
Time is a great equalizer to unhappiness. |
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"The real question is: How many married couples are relly happy? "
Someone said it best before me:
"Marriage is not commonly unhappy, otherwise than as life is unhappy" -- Samuel Johnson |
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You hiding out here instead of answering my challenge in the anti-American film post? You're just one of those 'drop one comment and run' types, eh? |
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It could be that there is also an increase in the number of people who never marry.
It would make sense that a person who doesn't want to marry doesn't want to stay married, right?
I think the liberalization of the workforce and in attitudes to women in general mean that people are willing to wait and hold out until they find "that one" because they don't have to worry about being alone or being with no one to look after them. Hence large groups of friends who act almost like surrogate families, helping each other out.
This is purely friendship. But since they're all so accepting of a radically new way of living together, are they all destabilizing the family? I don't think so, because I'm just describing a group of Monks or Nuns just as much as I am a group of 30-something people who live together as flatmates and friends.
Consider in the past there would be no eyebrows raised if a woman or man never got married. Now it's a stigma, and has been since 1950. Perhaps we are just going back to "the way things were," but BEFORE the rose coloured childhoods most conservatives have. |
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Equal to everything in life, what we put into our marriage is just what we will get out of it.
If a couple is looking for happiness in marriage they will not find it. Happiness is a state of mind, and gratitude is the reason we are happy.
The greatest happiness is the consequence of meeting and overcoming opposition and adversity, therefore when couples work together to overcome those adversities or opposition, they grow stronger as a marriage couple. It is our faith that keeps us united, and when we loose faith, we have lost. Hence, Liberals must promote doubt in the very thing they want to destroy.
Before you ever marry, you can recognize this in you relationship before you tie the knot. Otherwise, "marry in hast and repent in leisure."
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Spiceman writes: "Marriage Means What You Want It To Mean"
BUZZZZZZ!!! WRONG answer! Marriage means one man, married to one woman, for one lifetime. GOD defined and instituted marriage in the Bible so its definition will never change no matter what courts, politicians and legislators propose as "law".
I freely admit there is some room for flexibility when talking about the working definition of marriage in the above paragraph. For instance, when there is a divorce, does that mean it was NEVER a marriage; of course not. But to say that marriage "means what you want it to mean" is absurd.
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Ann's a photogenic, happy, intelligent, articulate older woman who is happily married to her childhood sweetheart. Maybe the press should be interviewing her to find out what went wrong - why she is so happy?
Must be some hidden information here somewhere! And we can trust our ever-plodding liberal press to reveal these yet-to-be-exposed SECRETS in future episodes called sound-bite nightly news. Stay tuned. Find out if there really is such a thing (thought it was extinct) as an American happy marriage. Happily married in rural America- so it must be possible. Am I deluded and out of touch? Must examine my feelings. No, I'm just plain happy with a great husband. I am also conservative and happy to appreciate the service of our armed forces to keep this country free. Hope you don't mind but I am also a Christian and see the world as value challenged. But I don't want to fight with other Christians over dogma as I am LDS. Blog on.... |
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phileo wrote: Wednesday, October, 03, 2007 10:44 AM Spiceman, nice try, BUT... --- You miss understood phileo. Be sure be for you make such a bold statement, and never put a person down, reason or ask, but never assume or generalize. That makes both of us to look foolish. I was foolish to not give it a better title. I sincerely apologize.
It is funny how we understand sometimes. This column is about the traditional marriage, and not any other my friend. A couple in such an arrangement is one man and one woman.
You are right! No apology needed. I perhaps should of mentioned this, to be sure.
The Traditional Marriage Means What You Want It To Mean
I could not fit that on the title, so I eliminate part of it. If you had read the message, not just the title you would have understood. Cheers |
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A Happy Marriage does not mean we are free of difficulties and problems. It means we have learned how to support whole-heartedly each other honestly and considerately as we meet together successfully challenges of real life. Every hour can be our greatest hour, and every moment destiny.
Liberals offer a hand out on a silver platter, which looks good, but it can never sharpen our skills and abilities to adapt, transform or turn an undesirable situation into an opportunity for growth, competence and self-mastery
Until we master ourselves we are slaves to our own environment and circumstance, and that is not a happy condition in anyone’s life, much less in marriage.
I feel that from my experience, a marriage fails because one or both married for the wrong reason. |
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I did read your entire post and I did not "put a person down"... and make "...both of us to look foolish." I was taking a stand against a pervasive mindset that your post heading typifies. Thank you for your apology on the "mis"-title.
You apparently have some good wisdom to share. I'm only eight years into my first (and last) marriage. We have had wonderful times and tough times. My friends who have had the greatest impact during the tough times have all been BRUTALLY honest - not in any way trying to "spare my feelings".
People need to hear the straight truth and not be told, "it all depends on how you FEEL about it". I appreciate you, spiceman. Stick to your guns. |
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2005 divorce stats:
1-All of the 15 states with HIGHEST divorce rates in 2005 voted for BUSH in 2004.
2-Ten the 12 states with the LOWEST divorce rates voted for KERRY in 2004.
3-Massachusetts (where gay marriage is allowed) had the LOWEST DIVORCE RATE in the country. |
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Massachusetts must be proud that more married people in their state are GAY and because the other states dont recongnise GAY MARRIAGE then I would say let Massachusetts become the Capital of the United State of GAYS. But they will have trouble keeping Californians at bay. If DUMBOCRAPS are that up on the Divorce thing then what happen to Kerry, if I recall he was divorced also. This proves my point that you LIBSCUM could care less about Marriage between a MAN and A Women. Hell even BILLY BOY tried to divorce HITLERY but she called in the KGB and put him in his place also. Just ask Foster what happens when you mess with HITLERY |
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