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Please resist the temptation to board that bus. It's heading the wrong direction. |
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Fighting to board the Titanic knowing in advance it is going to sink makes you question his political instincts. I supported him in the primaries but this cuts right to the core of his credibility. |
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Last time I checked, someone with no core beliefs has no credibility. We were all quick to jump on the "Kerry is a flip flopper" boat when he ran, and we would blind and stupid to think Mitt isn't as guilty as Kerry was. Nevermind, Kerry was a war hero! I thank God he's not president, for his exercises in poor judgment, and for the same reasons, that's why I hope this is the last time we ever see Romney. |
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Regretfully, I may have to agree with you. I worked hard for him in the primaries - gave money, worked phones in Maine and went to New Hampshire and worked there. I like him a lot, but this will be problematic for me.
He'll have a lot of 'splainin' to do. |
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Did someone dust the signs for his fingerprints? |
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I actually lived very near Mitt's home in Belmont and his son Matt wandered through in my circle of friends. It is a shame that he gets such shabby treatment here. He has done nothing but good things and presented a shining example of the virtuous life. I just hate for him to be so quick to sell out his ambitious that he would want to be VP for anyone no less a scoundrel like McCain. Maybe there are plans to do a switcheroo at the convention? I could stomach McCain as VP. Takes him out as a senator except for breaking ties. |
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The captain is steering for every iceberg he can find. Anyone who boards will have to abandon all conservative positions previously held to conform to the D-Lite agenda of McCain. |
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Is that before or after they decided being conservative was politically expedient? |
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He is afraid McCain will tap his congressman Eric Cantor! |
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I stay out of NOVA unless absolutely necessary to go there. I'd just as soon we give it to D.C., it's making us into a blue state. |
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Even if everything you said were true, there is no downside for a strong GOP candidate to run with McCain as Veep. Historic stigma? I don't think so, not this year. A strong conservative Veep would be welcomed by most real conservatives as someone to help influence McCain to stay on course and by party insiders as a loyal solider supporting the candidate.
But your real motives are apparent. You are worried a strong Veep pick will help McCain win. That is why you guys are outside the GOP and frankly going down the road to Losertarian-Permanent Minority Status land.
Fortunately most conservatives are smart enough not to follow you lemming-like off the cliff. |
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You might think this is a bad idea, however, if McCain is elected and only goes 4 years as he has said he would, the VP will be the obvious next nominee. Why would Mitt pass this up? If he is not VP, he can kiss 2012 goodbye.
Mitt is a very good man. He's a family man and a work-a-holic. |
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I would love to see Mitt in the White House for some of the very reasons you noted; however, how is he going to be able to support a president that is for amnesty, cap and trade, McCain-Lieberman, reducing those obscene profits of the evil big oil companies, limiting ANWR drilling, etc. and then run as a conservative in 2012? |
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If McCain-Romney wins, Mitt would be VP, a good place to be.
If they lose, Mitt can forget about 2012. He will have supported McCain's losing platform which is quite different from his own and will confirm suspicions for many about Romney. |
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I'm all for it. I'm for anyone that will purge the party! I'm so tired of having the faith I hold dear, dragged through the mud. When we stand up, we are told to sit down, we don't really count. By golly, we DO and WILL count. I want all bigots out of he party. Start you own. Get some brown shirts and walk the walk. Your already talking the talk. |
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Is it possible for him to run with McCain and keep his same views? Sure. Why not? His role isn't to repeat the President. |
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Here's to hoping you are right.
I'm a Mitt fan. |
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tied to Mac might not be a great move, certainly it is a risk. But it is one Romney decided to take and I think he knows what is best for his own future.
And while I believe he dropped out because he could see it getting harder to win, I also believe he did it for the good of the party. I know that the night of Super Tuesday, his staff and family made the decision to move forward and go for it because they could still see a path to the nomination. After all, he was ahead in real rebublican votes at that point. But somewhere along the line that night, he alone changed his mind and he wrote the excellent, heart-felt speech for CPAC.
I prefer to trust him that he knows what he's doing. Whatever he does now should be seen for exactly what it is, Romney doing what he thinks is best for the party and for America. |
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I personally don't think McCain will choose Mitt. Mitt is too conservative for McCain's taste. McCain has to be howling with laughter as you and I talk about Mitt. I will never forget the dirty politics in the West Virginia caucus played by McCain and Huck. I seriously doubt McCain will choose someone he fundamentally dislikes. Yes, it's a shame. |
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I agree. I don't see Mitt getting the nod. McCain positively detests Mitt and would be jealous of Mitt's good looks, eloquence and polished style. It would just highlight what could have been for the GOP and make people like me even more upset. |
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You sound like a very angry person. Are you English? I think you should know that not all people who do not care for Mitt Romney are Bigots. I don't think you have the right attitude going on this subject and that's as judgmental about them as they are about him, so tell me the difference if you can. Otherwise, in my opinion, it is simply a double standard on your part. |
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You sound like a very angry person. Are you English? I think you should know that not all people who do not care for Mitt Romney are Bigots. I don't think you have the right attitude going on this subject and that's as judgmental about them as they are about him, so tell me the difference if you can. Otherwise, in my opinion, it is simply a double standard on your part. |
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If Mitt does take the nod, then he isn't cut out. If he passes then their might be hope for him.
koorbfen, she's not. She's just tired of fighting the anti-mormon bigots that frequent here. I can't blame her. She does the grunts work for the rest of us on that front. |
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You haven't seen the worst of it with the anti-Mormon bigotry on TH. It gets real ugly sometimes. You will see over time that many of the people who sound angry at first are the survivors who suffer through the attacks over a long time. |
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When I say that the only logical choice is Mitt Romney for VP. None of the other guys even come close to offering what Mitt offers the ticket:
1) He provide McCain with cover on the economy
2) He can deliver Michigan, Nevada, and maybe Mass.
3) He can reunite the party and bring real conservatives back into the fold.
4) As Laura Ingraham said "he's a conservative's conservative."
Last but not least, McCain can send a message once and for all that the Republican party rejects the bigoted ideals and tactics of Mike Huckabee and his one-issue supporters.
Websters definition of a Huckster: 1) One who uses lies and divisive tactics to gain a political advantage. 2) a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices 3) one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance 4) A bigot. |
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You're a complete jackass and your Mormon hatred is not appreciated. Please find a comfortable rock to crawl under. |
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a smarmy flip floping elitest will not help you at all, mitt runing for the senate , pro gay rights ,pro gays in the scouts ,he was an independent not a supporter of the reagan bush tax cuts , his words not mine, pro choice pro gun control , raised taxes on biz, in mass ordered court clerks to issue marriage liscences to gays decides to run for pres and changes all of his positions on the afore mentioned issues we can do much better hell damn near anyone is better |
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Thank you. I am getting so tired of folks trying to say they have problems with mitt's religion - but that does not make them a bigot. Huh? Doubletalk from the wednesdaynight bigot club.
I agree Mitt would be good. But if not Mitt, Ridge. Anything to make the Evangalcial Talaban's head explode. |
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I spent a good sum of my young adult life working in England. |
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He's running away with the south, including FL. He still needs a boost in MI and the mountain west CO, NV, MT, etc, so Romney is looking more and more likely for VP.
Palin is out, abuse of power investigation will kill her shot at VP. No use even talking about her anymore, not that there ever was.
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I just meant that I am not overly fond of Romney, don't hate him or anything, and certainly don' thold hi sreligion against him, just don't know if he'd be the right man for the job of veep. But I really don't consider myself a Bigot because I don't jump on the Romney bandwagon. By the way, my mother-in-law is from England. |
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I see McDonalds let you off your shift a bit earlier than usual.
Everyone else: Here's a good quote from another site.
coltakashi on 04 Aug 2008 at 4:42 pm #
If Romney is the VP candidate, and is attacked in the media for his religion, I think he should turn it back on them and say “You know, there are not only racial minorities, there are other kinds of minorities in America, such as religious minorities. Both kinds of minorities have suffered because of their lack of relative political power. Often the people like the Ku Klux Klan who were the worst racial bigots were also the worst religious bigots. The people who lynched blacks were also the people who lynched Mormons. But that was in the past.
We don’t want to go backward to the time when some Americans were second class citizens because of their race, and we don’t want to go backward to the time when some Americans were second class citizens because of their religion. In the Declaration of Independence, we aspired to create a nation that recognized that God had made all men and women equal under the law. We put the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments into the Constitution to ensure equality under the law of all people, regardless of race, and we put Article VI and the First Amendment into the law to ensure the equality of all people regardless of religion. We have fought wars to bring that ideal of equality into reality. Why would any American in 2008 want to go backward to the days of racial and religious animosity?”
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If your not jumping on Mitt's bandwagon for reasons OTHER than relgion, I respect that. However, there are several on here, for the past year, who have made it their 'mission' to tear us down. They put out information that is wrong, slanted and out of context. They think they are doing 'gods(little g)' work. But indeed, they are not. I do know of at least one person from this site, who got so tired of it, he looked into the LDS faith, and learned first hand these guys were totally wrong. I don't know if he'll join or not. that's his decision, not mine. I do know I admire him for not believeing what he read here. |
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The old charge is that Mormons call everyone who doesn't like Romney bigots, but I've never seen it, anywhere.
The only name-calling I've seen coming from Mormons is when people oppose Romney for his religion alone, and when they spew a bunch of nasty lies about Mormonism.
The people who put out the anti-Mitt ad a few months ago were almost all people who had written or said anti-Mormon things. The ad itself was full of outright lies about Romney's record. They were all, to a man, Huck supporters. Yet, somehow Huck's abysmal record escaped them. They don't even mind that Huck made a horrible joke about the assassination of Obama. They don't care about ANYTHING Huck did, they just wanted to make sure one of their "own" got elevated and the Mormon got trashed. |
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Please quit claiming the moral high ground.
"White slime
I see McDonalds let you off your shift a bit earlier than usual."
I am getting tired of the incessant use of the word bigot for those who disagree with you.
I would not vote for Mitt Romney for VP, but I would choose Jeff Flake. Now by what I think is your definition I can't be a bigot, because I would vote for a mormon.
Please quit lumping all evangelicals into a "taliban". I agree that this is not the place to discuss the differences between religions.
But ad hominem's and personal attack's solve nothing.
Can I ask you a question, Why do you need to defend Mormonism so vigorously? By that I mean, can't your religion stand on its own? If it is absolute truth than it will be found out.
As a Huckabee supporter, I find it offensive that Romney supporters here insist on claiming that Huck bashed Romeny over the head with religion. It is a assertion that is false on its face and you know it.
Do you all believe that a preacher/priest/bishop/pastor should never run for public office? If so, I think you have the burden of proof.
The "Christian leader" ad that caused such an uproar was not untruthful. Huckabee was a prominent "Christian" leader in the state of AR. To call yourself a Christian, does not say one thing about somebody else, it is just statement of fact.
Methinks you protest too much.
The Romney camp overreacted to that ad and made Romney's religion a far bigger issue than it need to be.
Anyway What about Tom Coburn or Jeff Flake?
They both seem to be great choices.
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spent a little less than an hour watching mitt flip flop on youtube saw some anti romney clips saw some pro romney clips some of the clips were from the kennedy romney debates for the senate , made teddy look good!!! thats really ,really hard to do . mitt is a rare talent !!the i think that the boy scouts should allow gays was an answer to reporterit's on youtube as well . theres lots of stuff available . everyone thats interested in mitt should take a look .if they'll take an honest look i think they'll want to support a different vp pick who knows maybe you will too |
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you make a great point ,it's amazingly pathetic to campaign for second place . the signs obviously come from the mittster .how sad to spend so much time and treasure to be reduced to begging for the vp . kinda heart breaking and goes a long way towards explaining his worshippers vitriol towards any one who does not bask in his glorious light lol all day long!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Perhpas you can preach to the others, who claim the 'high moral ground' by constantly tearing down my faith, and saying that Mitt has a Mormon problem. When in fact, the problem is all theres.
I think it's fine to disagree with Mitt on politcal views - so long as you have your facts correct. But to then drag in his religion. BIGOT. |
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You know, if you don't like me, complain to TH. Of course, they won't do anything. After all the king bigot, you, are still here. yes, I'm going to get nasty. I'm sick and tired of you. |
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The bigot birdcage will hate this. One commentator actually said Mitt's Mormonis will HELP!!!!! Oy. Mitt is numbero uno with Hardball picks.
http://nyformitt.blogspot.com/2008/08/romney-is-1-pick.html |
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Your name screams the fact that you are consumed with Mormon hate. What's up? What's your story? why the hatred? What did the Mormons do to you? And don't give us this crap story that you saw the truth. Bullsh**. Who pissed you off? If you have seen the truth, you wouldn't persecute the wrong, you just seek the truth. Come on, man up and be honest with yourself.
If you can't do that, then shut the hell up and lets have an intellegent talk about non-religious issues. This is a political forum. |
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QM doesn't lump all evangelicals together. The Evangelical Taliban are those people who think the are the sole arbiters of who is a Christian and who is not, and who is allowed to run for president.
Most evangelicals do NOT fit into that category.
The anti-Mitt ad folks do, and the recent hostage-takers threatening McCain do, too. Some of them are on both lists. |
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The "Christian Leader" ad was only one of many things Huck did to divide conservatives and play off anti-Mormon sentiment.
Of course, the most egregious action against Mormons was his not-so-innocent question to the NYT reporter. The question was ENTIRELY unsolicited and Huck threw it in when he wasn't getting the question he wanted. So easy for Huck to apologize later, though wasn't it?
He refused to say whether he believed Mormons are Christian - a no-brainer for any decent candidate to answer. But Huck wanted to divide. He also claimed to know nothing about the Mormon faith when he absolutley does. He was the main speaker at an anti-Mormon SBC convention a few years back where the LDS church was attacked by Baptists trying to malign the Mormon Church. But, you knew that didn't you Rush?
The floating cross was just flat out stupid and transparent. What Huck was telling folks is that they are too stupid to know when they're being played.
Theres also no doubt in my mind that the anti-Mormon phone calls and the fake Romney Christmans card slamming Mormons were Huck's doing. There's no one else who would pull such a trick. We may yet have proof, but I know everything I need to know about the Huckster already.
Shame on anyone/everyone who supports a bigot. Yep, that's right. Everyone who supports him is floating in the same boat with Huck and it's sinking fast. |
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is a "conservative's conservative" is laughable. Basically, he is the darling of the economic conservatives, who think he will do the "right thing" (i.e., what they want) on the economy. The conservative talking heads have also embraced him, I suspect in part because, despite their social issues rhetoric, they too are primarily concerned with economic conservatism, and also because, given Mitt's past liberal social positions, he owes them, which makes him beholden to them, which they love. The conservative talking heads hate Huckabee, who is economically liberal and socially conservative, and owes them nothing --again showing that they rank economic issues much higher than social issues, despite all their lip service to social issues, and loathe any candidate who is not beholden to them. |
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So true. My nickname for bigots (Evangalical Taliban) is reserved for those who feel it is their duty to define my faith, and to determine that I am not a christian, and that I don't worship the very same Christ they do. They feel that they are the ones who have that right, not me who has that faith.
Not all Evangalicals are Bigots. But on these pages, most bigots are evangalcal. White slime is nothing but a burger flipper at the local Mcdonalds. |
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are in the bag for Obama. Ignore them. When you engage them it only encourages them more. Shunning is the better tactic with them. |
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You've done gone and said the wrong thing. If you take it back now, you might be forgiven--maybe.
What's been going on is that a few Huckabee supporters and a few Romney supporters have been at each others' throats for months now. Just scroll back to any post by Matt Lewis that mention either Romney or Huckabee....wait a second, that pretty much sums up EVERY Matt Lewis post. Anyway, they're the only posts that easily get over 500 responses. Usually they degenerate to "Mormons are weirdos, Evangelicals are bigots" shoutfests.
There's a lot of baggage in qweenmum calling us Huck supporters "the evangelical Taliban", so don't worry too much about it. She's really talking mainly to White Salamander; he has a problem with just about ALL organized religion, but focuses his ire on the LDS church, since that's his angle in arguing against Romney.
I tend to argue that Romney is not as economically astute as the Mittwits claim, and that we need to adopt the Fair Tax, like, yesterday; Synthesis posts a lot of links to articles; eddie2, mariesgofer and others argue that Romney hasn't shown himself to be truly a social conservative. All of us want some acknowledgement that during the primaries, Huckabee pretty much wiped the floor with Mitt Romney's perfect 'do; but we also know that's never going to happen, since the Mittwits worship Romney hard. |
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and the Mittwits know this: I would vote for a McCain/Romney ticket if it came to that, but I think Huckabee would be the better choice. I also know that Huckabee is out of the running, but, like MaineConservative and Virginia Patriot, I think that McCain is trying to lose this campaign, and I would rather Huckabee not have that "loser's taint".
Of course, recently, McCain seems to have picked up the pace a bit, with his ads making fun of Obama, and his focus on drilling for oil and all, so it may not be the lost cause that up to now I thought it was. |
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For the last time, all evangelicals are NOT called bigots by the Mormons here. Only those who actually ARE, when they trash Mormonism and oppose Romney because of his religion.
Mac is doing well in the polls this week. He's solid throughout the south and still needs to shore up the mountain west and MI - Romney territory. Glad to hear that you are going to vote for a Mac/Mitt ticket if it comes to that.
I think you're naive if you don't think Romney is economically astute. I just don't see anyone who has the whole package like Romney does.
Huckabee used the fair tax as cover for his horrible record on taxes. I doubt he's committed to it. Same thing with amnesty. When he found out his amnesty record wouldn't fly, he quickly adopted a National Review plan written in 05 word for word - NR says it was stolen. I've never heard Huck admit it, much less apologize. |
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Qweenmumof7 writes: Monday, August, 04, 2008 8:43 PM
"I agree Mitt would be good. But if not Mitt, Ridge. Anything to make the Evangalcial Talaban's head explode."
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I did honestly laugh out loud when I read that! I feel your pain!!! The WA Times ran the "Taliban warns McCain" story too, with a zillion comments by Huckie fans protesting their bigotry, same as here. They're all in denial big time! God, I can't wait until McCain announces his pick (Romney PLEASE!). Hopefully then the insanity will stop....
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All these guys and their crusade against Evangelicals and Christians.
Many people have tired what you want to do, but all of them fail. The Church has worn out many a hammer.
You want to call everyone bigots. Neither you nor any cultist you know has experienced true bigotry here in America. It is rather more like other liberal minorities which call us bigots because we do not conform to their ways. They are the true hypocrits. It is they who are the bigots. In reality, I wouldn't harm a hair on your cultist head. But I defend my right to say mormonism is a cult because it is.
Even the Evangelicals who voted for Romney regard mormonism as a cult, so do you want to call them bigots too?
You know jim jones thought he and his cult where treated unfairly, and thought that the people who opposed them where bigots.
How can anyone believe the claims of the book of mormon and all the places that never existed and the reformed egyptian that doesn't exist that it's writen in?
More over than that, it's teaching go against the clear teaching of the Bible. |
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would'nt be so sure of the south latest polls show georgia ,north carolina leaning to mcain . leaning and locked up are very different . virginia leans to the dems. michigan will go to the dems no matter what ,so will nm and probably colorado mitt will hurt mcain down south and won't be much help elsewhere . for everyone that is interested ,there are a large number of mitt clips on you tube his debate with teddy kenedy is quite revealing . enjoy |
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thompson was my first pick as well and you're right he did not run any kind of campaign, i like huckabee he connects well with people ,understands working class folks ,supported the fair tax ,ran a great campaign , but he won't be a vp pick because he's not one of the ivey leauge club . thats too bad but it's a reality and he has enough dignity left not too beg or snivel" no one likes me cuz i'm an evangelical" for romney it's all about being in power no matter what you have to do or say .that kind of driving ambition is what got nixon and clinton in a lot of trouble .we've all seen how vindictave he and his followeres are. watch what happens when mcain leves him at the altar and picks cantor or pallin . |
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I AM ONE. I am a Christian. Now if you don't think i am, because I happen to be a Christian from the LDS branch of Christiandom, that's not your call. Christians are called that because they follow Christ. It's the Evangalical Taliban I'm totally against. It is not their right nor 'duty' to define what Christ is to me. That judegement is Christs and Christs alone. Stop playing Christ, and start living His doctrine. It is also not the ET's (hey,that fits! - Double meanings!) right to determine that because I am LDS, that I am not fit to run for high office, and be in positions of leadership in the world. A quick internet search will yeield many who are in governments throughout the world, who are LDS. Now, get over your prejudice of and your warped ideas of who is a Christian and who is not. It's not your call. |
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This is written by a Evangalical Chritian and a Mormon. The movie comes out this fall. I recommend everyone who thinks the way some on this board thinks, to take a serious look at not only the blog, but the movie. |
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Here' the link.
http://www.article6blog.com/ |
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You may as well give it a rest trying to discuss anything with U-Jeannie, or what ever the chameleon is using as a name today.
Everyone on this blog, with the exception of two or three others, agree with you and understand who and what you are trying to reason with. It's futile.
He's a pathetic loser living in his poor deceased mother's basement in constant fear of somehow crossing paths with another Mormon like the one who stole his best girl at his Sr. Prom.
He's best left to pick his nose in the corner of his cage.
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You wrote in your 8:02 post:
"no one likes me cuz i'm an evangelical" for romney"
I know lots of evangelicals for romney and I don't believe no one likes them.
Oh, wait. Is this again just not being able to understand what you are saying because they failed to teach you in 2nd grade how to puntuate a sentence? |
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You do not get to decide for yourself who is or is not a Christian. I think we agree on this.
The Bible and the Bible alone determines what a Christian is and what a Christian should do.
I would fight for your right to practice your Mormon faith. But, that doesn't mean I have to accept your religion as my own, I have the right and quite frankly, the responsibility as a Christian to stand against what I believe to be false teachings. I am just as likely to speak out against charlatans like Benny Hinn and other false teachers as I am to speak out against Mormons. I have to do this because I believe the Bible to be the final arbitrator of Christian belief.
I know several Mormons personally and have cordial frindships with them. But, they know I don't believe their church's teachings and view Mormonism as a different religion altogether.
That doesn't have anything to do with how I would vote though. I would probably vote for a McCain/Romney Ticket, because the prospect of an Obama presidency is frightening, it could undo the progress of the last thirty years.
Enjoy your religion, debate it vigorously. But, don't force me to go against my beliefs to fit your standard of tolerance. |
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I do understand your responses on some level.
The personal nature of the attacks by a select few on TH have been over the top.
I am trying to build bridges not tear them down.
We can talk to each other with civility and still disagree vigorously.
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I would have been in favor of a ticket with any combination of Huck and Mitt. That is a winning ticket and I believe it would have been a landslide for us.
I don't know if you mitt supporters would say the same thing, in fact I feel pretty sure you will reject that thought outright.
I have felt and continue to feel that you have mischaracterized Huckabee's intentions and actions and have been downright uncivil toward Huckabee personally. I have endeavored to treat Mitt with respect and at the same time, argue against his nomination.
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BUT, the topic of our doctrine (and ours is yours, and we only part ways with interpertation on some things, like the trinity and the BOM) is not open to be dragged through the mud. I turned nasty over the weekend to show others what it is like. It has appeared to have worked on some level. My closest and dearest friend (were like sisters) is an evang. who lives in Tennessee now. We have known each other since we were 10. (close to 40 years). I have never heard this type of hate spewed out before, other than at conference with the bigot birdcage is tossed open, and some folks like to make their 'points' by tossing more than words at us, while we wait to get into the conference center. My friend told me to go negative. I think she was right. I think it might have pulled some folks up, and offered them reflection on what they were doing. We can disagee. But this is not the forum. Article 6 of our constitution promises that there will be NO relgious test for our elected officals. Your 'leadership' needs to understand that, and let the people govern themselves. |
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The Lord will be the one and only judge of who is and who is not a Christian. Not Huckabee, not the Evangelical Taliban, not your preacher, not anyone.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is indeed a Christian Church. It may not fit the common mold, but it's teachings and practices are centered around the divinity of Jesus Christ, His taking upon himself our sins, and His glorious resurrection wherein we all have the opportunity for eternal life. I don't see how anyone can honestly say that we aren't considered Christian. (There are ulterior motives at play.)
The Lord knows that I am one of His followers. Nothing anyone can say will change that. It's not possible.
No one is forcing you to accept Mormonism, Rush. And I agree with you that the Bible teaches what a Christian is, and what a Christian should do. I'm sorry that people do not understand that Mormons follow the Bible. |
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you sir, are an idiot. huckabee is NOT sniveling and saying no one likes me cuz i'm an evangelical. contrast that with romney supporters saying any who does not like the mittwit is anti mormon . i just think mitt is a fake conservitive i sat down and watched his debate tape with kenedy and several interviews and press releases ,looked at his record and came to the conclusion that the man is a weasel . the mormon issue is seperate from that . yes lots of christians will not vote for a mormon this is an issue mcain if he picks romney will have to deal with. it could cost him in the south, is it worth it time will tell |
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ytour right. We won't support a huck ticket, period. Personally, when this election cycle started, I was happy with huck. What little I knew about him, I sorta liked. then I got to know him. Then, he started his antimo gig. That's when I flipped on him. He had me until his 'mormons are satans brothers and sisters' line. that's when the surface began to get scratched on this man. I could forgive him for his keynote address in SLC. It was addressed to his church, not me personally. That was his 'job' as a pastor. But on the national stage, he did not stand up for religious freedom, and quash the hits that Mitt had to take for his faith. I would have more respect for him if he would have said that we all enjoy freedom of religion. And that one who has a faith in Christ IS a christian. Instead, he stood on the stage with his hands in his pockets, whistling dixie. THAT's why I can't elect him. That's why I'll never vote for a ticket with him on it. Had he stood up for me, I might feel different. But he has encouraged this type of rubbish you see on these boards, and the letters from so called 'leaders' of your faith, declaring that a mormon is not fit to be president because he's not 'christian' in their books. My church will never write such a letter. |
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Ok, So you like Huckabee. I get it. Although I don't understand why.
When I first heard him in a interview, I liked him. But after some investigation, it was obvious that he was not a real conservative and he had a record to prove it.
Yeah, yeah, he was against abortion and is pro second amendment, but other than that he was not a conservative.
So he dropped of my list of consideration.
But then he pull that anti-mormon stunt. And then I found out that he was a speaker at that little SBC anti-mormon fest they had in SLC.
I have lost ALL respect for the man.
Now if you want you can try to convince me that he is a man of character. Feel free to do so, but you better have your facts right. |
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I would say that HUCKABIGOT has been UNCIVIL to Mormons.
It's not going to fly that Huck's intentions and actions were innocent. Huck may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he knows how to play the political game. (Floating cross denial, question to the NYT reporter, Christian Leader, negative ad fakeout, flip-flopping on amnesty and "borowing" the NR plan as cover, adopting the Fair tax plan as cover for his horrible record on taxes, etc.)
You're right, I would reject a Mitt/Huck ticket on the spot. Not only is it an impossibility because of Huck's bigotry against Mormons, but it would have killed Romney stone dead, as Huck has too many ethics issues, a liberal record, and is a train wreck on the trail producing more gaffes than all the others combined.
I don't believe Romney would have EVER entertained such an idea. He already had plenty of evangelical votes (the reasonable half.) He's not stupid. |
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It won't cost him the south. Romney did quite well in the south, splitting the 'evangalical' vote almost evenly, and I don't recall any 'blow outs', like romney had in Nevada and Michigan. |
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I will give Huck a break when he comes out and owns his sleazy actions against Mormons and truly apologizes for them.
He also needs to come clean on his record, the pardons, the ethics violations, and his shabby treatment of Romney in the primary. It takes a big man to acknowledge his errors, if Huck ever did, I would begin to respect him. Not a day before. |
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a religious test.
I would not however vote for a muslim in any case. Please understand, I do not wish to compare Mormonism with Islam. That comparison would be rediculous on its face.
I am just pointing out that, If someone, wants religion to be part of the decision making process, he is free to do so and that doesn't necessarily make him a bigot. Would anyone on this blog vote for a muslim or a wiccan? I doubt it.
That being said, discounting a Mormon because of his faith is bad form and foolish. (my opinion) The Mormons I know are upstanding, contributing citizens of this country and there is almost nothing on social issues that we would disagree about.
My problem with Mitt is not his mormonism, but his pro-choice rhetoric was pretty strong, as well as his support and tacit approval of the homosexual lifestyle. His record as governor of Mass is not that impressive. The health care plan is going to be a disaster, costs are already expected to double over projections. Any government intervention into our lives is dangerous, and as I understand that health care program, its goal is 100% participation. That is not a conservative goal, in my estimation.
Mitt may make a great VP, whether he is or is not and runs for the Presidency again someday, I need more proof that he holds conservative beliefs sincerely and is not merely pandering to get elected. |
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Dominated. Nevada does have a high population, but not enough to throw an election. I know MN and Maine does not have a high populiation, and he won those too. Came in a very close second in Fla, where he was leading until he big lie was told about timetables.
AND FYI, if your one of the bridge builders, your reference to polgymay does not help. You know, I know. Our chruch has not practiced polgyamy since the late 1800's. Over 100 years. but then, you wear the brown shirt with pride, right? |
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keep saying Dems have got something for you.
something you call stimulous, but confess.
You wanna start drillin' where you shouldn't be drillin'
and we know you can't drill yourself from this mess.
These boots are made for walking, and that's just what they'll do
Because there won't be any gas for me to drive the bus right over you.
Republicans keep lying, when you oughta be truthin'
but Dems keep losin' when we oughta be winnin'.
Repubs keep samin' when we oughta be changin'.
Now what's right is right, but I have not been right yet.
These boots are made for walking, and that's just what they'll do
Because there won't be any gas for me to drive the bus right over you.
Mac keeps risin' where he shouldn't be risin
and Dem keep thinkin' that they will never get burnt.
Ha! I just found me a brand new box of matches yeah
and watch me light things up for Barack.
Are you ready boots? Start walkin'!
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i notice none of you adress mitts liberal record said he was an independent not a reagan supporter ,pro gay stance ,evan to the point of letting them into the boy scouts ,his socialized healthcare program , his tax and fee attacks on buisness in mass and his generally liberal politcal record . these are the issues not his religous beliefs.
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You missed the joke.
Your exact words were (speaking of Huck, I believe), and I quote:
he has enough dignity left not too beg or snivel" no one likes me cuz i'm an evangelical" for romney
I was only pointing out that given your juvenile inability to punctuate a sentence that what you wrote indicates Huck is an evangelical for Romney and was being chastised for it. I was only pointing out that you could make more sense if you had paid attention back in grade school and learned to punctuate a sentence.
Sorry it just zinged way over your head. |
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to continue to be civil.
I am SBC, and to call our convention in SLC anti-mormon is patently absurd. We have honest religious differences. I try to act out of love for my fellow man, when I talk about my faith. But, I am still going to try to persuade mormons that their beliefs are incorrect. That doesn't make me anti-mormon any more than mormon missionaries knocking on my door and trying to convert me to mormonism are anti-christian, or even anti-baptist.
I have tried to avoid refuting specific mormon doctrines, but I feel compelled in the light of the just uploaded posts.
Mormons do in fact believe that Jesus Christ is a created being. I read it on the LDS wensite. They further believe that the devil is a created being. That is the issue, the view that Jesus is a created being. No one has ever said that mormons are satan's brothers and sisters. this is a mischaracterization of what he asked.
Look, Huck is no Ivy league educated rich kid.
He came from humble beginnings and has done very well for himself. I do not fault Mitt for his upbringing, but he had advantages that Huckabee never had, niether goo or bad, just the truth.
Huckabee's campaign did make some silly mistakes. However, I beleive that that is more an indication of the speed at which he gained popularity and the campaign was unable to adjust. I think Huck surprised himself about how well he would do.
Huck needs polishing, but he never ducks a question, speaks in a friendly, convincing way and probably made some political decisions that I myself would make differently. But he is a good man, and your continuing insistence to call him a bigot tells us more about you than it does about him. |
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The missionary knocking on your door to share the message is Christ IS christian, not anti-christian. |
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Call your 'leaders' and them them this is what they should oppose Romney on. Not the Mormon issue. They might not have gotten the Memo.
Also, if I had time, (and I'm sure others do, but I have to leave for several hours) they can tell you AGAIN about all these issues that are not as you say they are. I'm not making excuses, but you might be under the impression that this is all Romney's doing and ideas. Hardly. |
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Let me interject some ideas as a third party observer.
In full disclosure, I am currently meeting with some of those young missionaries and learning more about their faith, which I am finding facinating and enlightening. They have not one time, ever, said anything negative about any of my beliefs or questions that may be different or contrary to their own. The only teach me about their view of God and Christ.
Contrast that with the SBC convention in Salt Lake City where anti-mormon literature was distributed door to door to the neighborhoods of Salt Lake. This was not pro-Chistian liturature but literature to tear down Mormonisms beliefs.
I once visited Temple Square in Salt Lake and was handed anti-Mormon liturature as I entered the gates. To me this is a big difference. My belief is that Jesus told us to spread the gospel, but to spread it by telling others they are wrong rather than tellinging them what you believe is a major difference.
Just one man's opinion. |
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Is their knocking on my door anti-baptist? If they are preaching a different gospel than I believe. If they are not anti-baptist, than they would leave as soon as they found out I am Baptist because there would be no need to convert me to mormonism, if as you say, our gospel is the same.
Are Catholics Christians, what about presbyterians and anglicans, and pentecostals?
If they are, why are mormons trying to convert them?
The point is, it is easy to throw around the word bigot, but intolerant people are often the biggest voices for tolerance.
The way to build bridges is not to call someone who genuinely believes their faith, a bigot.
Now, lest I sound like I am defending some of the ne'er-do-wells that inhabit this blog, the attacks on you and others has been unchristian in tone and content.
No one is being convinced.
The attacks on Huckabee have galvanized me as much as the attacks on Mitt have galvanized you.
Please don't lump all Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. into one bag and be careful that when you throw the net of bigotry, you do not catch more than you are trying to catch. |
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just reread several of my last posts. I apologize for my misspellings. I hope they do not cause confusion. |
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When the JW's Catholics (we have a hispanic last name, so we are targeted a lot!) or anyone else knocks at my door, I offer them a cookie, a cold drink and thank them for their time. I wish them well on their quest, but we are LDS types of Chrisitans. I don't argue with them, I don't bible bash. I'm polite. When the baptits knocked at my door during the SBC SLC convetion, I was polite. they were not. I was told I was going to hell for my faith. I did offer them something cold to drink, was polite, but they got no cookies. |
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I am sorry you were so rudely treated. I will acknowledge that their are people in my denomination that believe the Bible is a weapon to hit people over the head with. I would not be as rude as that, certainly. We can have sprited discussion even if we disagree, but we should always be agreeable. Not everyone is like that.
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You sound like a good and reasonable person.
Thanks for your views. |
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Good discussion either strengthens our own views or it causes us to change what needs to be changed. There is nothing to fear in that. |
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Here are my definitions.
Bigot; someone who refuses to vote for a candidate simply because of that candidates religion.
(I could however excuse someone for refusing to vote for a muslim. Lest someone call me a bigot, let me explain. Catholics, Protestants, Mormons and many others believe in being subject to the government and in "freedom of religion". Muslims however, (at least as far as I know) believe in the Government being subject to the religion. Which I believe to be completely UNAmerican.)
Anti-Mormon; someone who uses deception, falsehoods and misinformation to fight against the LDS church.
Just because someone isn't a Mormon or doesn't believe Mormon doctrine doesn't make them Anti-Mormon!
Just because someone believes Mormonism to be false doesn't make them Anti-Mormon.
Just because someone is trying to convert me away from Mormonism doesn't make them Anti-Mormon.
Again, it is the use of deception, falsehoods and misinformation to fight against the LDS church that makes them Anti-Mormon.
I hopes this helps.
Cheers! |
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RC: Mormons do in fact believe that Jesus Christ is a created being.
GB: Well, Jesus described Himself as the beginning of the creation of God.
His word is good enough for me. |
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i notice none of you adress mitts liberal record said he was an independent not a reagan supporter ,pro gay stance ,evan to the point of letting them into the boy scouts ,his socialized healthcare program , his tax and fee attacks on buisness in mass and his generally liberal politcal record . these are the issues not his religous beliefs.
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Tell me, why would you think any of the Mormons on this blog would even respond to anyone who calls Queenmom "one of 7 wives" (or whatever the nonsense you call her - insinuating that Mormons practice polygamy) or who has written that you hope Brigham Young burns in hell?
You don't really want any answers, you just want to denigrade. |
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John McCain is a complete and well-formed man. Barack Obama is completing himself. As he moves to fit what he perceives to be a right-of-center country, he distances himself from the simple and authentic passion of a young candidate who once pledged "Change We Can Believe In."
This is the trap Barack Obama has made for himself, the one he cannot escape, the one Hillary Clinton foresaw, the one that may doom him. The Obama campaign knows it too. In fear the dream is being lost drop-by-drop, they are going negative on John McCain.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-castellanos/the-molten-c ore-of-barack_b_116904.html
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You write: "Here's the real problem on taxes. We all want lots of government, but we don't want to pay for it."
That's exactly right. And furthermore, the current tax code is more about implementing social policy than it is about financing the government. The sole purpose of the Fair Tax is to finance the government.
And switching from taxing productivity, savings, and investment to taxing consumption would be a positive for the poor and working classes, since it would stimulate economic growth through allowing greater incentives to produce, save, and invest.
It really should be called the "Freedom Tax" instead of the "Fair Tax", since you are free to pay it or not, depending on what sort of lifestyle you wish to have. |
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I would like to nicely encourage you to go to the fair tax website. Do you understand that no money would be taken out of your paycheck, you would get it all. and the Prebates takes care of any harmful effects on the poor.
You know what I like best about it. I decide how much taxes I pay. If I want to buy secondhand I could pay almost nothing in taxes.
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on the fair tax ,seems the benifits out weigh the negatives ,it's a much better plan than what we have now. the goverment currently uses the income tax like a club to beat us into submission , modify our behavior ,and pretty much control every aspect of our lives . the fair tax is not perfect , you raise a legitimite point about working folks, it's at least a place to start . one of my issues with romney and lots of big biz republicans is this , they'll cut taxes to a point and work on exemptions most of which will favor corporations , and generally protect the status quo. they are not interested in making any big changes only in protecting their interests . the fair tax has the potential to level the playing field . it will never pass, too many on either side of the aisle have a vested interest in our current system . |
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White Salamander writes: 'The problem is that for most of us, we spend everything we make, and putting a tax of 30% on everything to finance the federal government is going to impact us more than it impacts Paris Hilton.'
ME: A little more clarity, as I understand it, the Fair Tax's alleged regressivity is mitigated by the prebate provision.
Like the stimulus checks that most people received this past tax season all taxpayers will receive a periodic check nullifying the tax monies spent on necessities.
If poor people only buy necessities their taxes will be effectively zero.
When Paris Hilton buys a $5,000 dollar purse she will pay the full effect of the Fair Tax (not that she'll care).
But the point is, poor, and working class folks, trying to "make ends meet" aren't buying $5,000 dollar purses. |
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